From clb5590 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  1 00:50:10 2012
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 18:50:10 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] SPSS info
In-Reply-To: <4f4eb22a.211c640a.4a71.31f9@mx.google.com>
References: <CACUFQdw94go_9ufx78bmfJUsQjTzVBRMW38A90M5Ac8hjJPtug@mail.gmail.com>
	<4f4eb22a.211c640a.4a71.31f9@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CACUFQdzdGswmiioj41QFmXAAZzu5fyfcn5nFtoTWQ5w3oi-U5Q@mail.gmail.com>

Cari:

I unfortunately do not have any information about that. You could
email the address I provide above and ask. That goes to a personal
inbox, so I trust that you would get a reply faster than a generic
contact link on IBM's website.

I'm sorry I cannot be of more help.

Cindy

On 2/29/12, Cari Ford <carisuekness at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Cindy,
> My school uses the current version of Windoweyes. Do you or anyone
> else have any information about the accessibility with Windoweyes?
> Thanks for the information you posted about the program.
> Peace,
> Cari
>
> At 06:06 PM 2/28/2012, Cindy Bennett wrote:
>>A while ago, I mentioned that I would receive some training from a
>>grad student I know with JAWS and SPSS. She has been very helpful, and
>>I wanted to share what I have learned so far.
>>
>>Right now, she uses SPSS versions 16 and 19. 19 is the current
>>version, and most schools and research workplaces keep the current
>>version. She had to go through her school to get version 16.
>>
>>She has version 19 on her work desktop. Before she could even use it
>>with JAWS, she had to obtain a fix from Freedom Scientific. This fix
>>actually works. I remember trying one that came out for version 17
>>when I was in undergrad stats, and it didn't work, but this one does,
>>so that is an improvement.  Before she uses SPSS, she has to close all
>>programs, restart the computer, and only run JAWS and SPSS. She had to
>>add RAM to her computer so that it has 8 gigs which is more than the
>>typical computer has. Apparently, the computer cannot handle running
>>JAWS and SPSS with under that amount of RAM.
>>
>>Even after those accommodations to maximize the productivity of the
>>program, she says that after several analyses, the computer sometimes
>>restarts. That being said, she is working at a professional research
>>firm, so homework assignments for stats classes would definitely not
>>be working with data sets of 31 thousand.
>>
>>The version we practiced on was 16 since it works better with JAWS,
>>and since it is on her work laptop. She is using JAWS 12 and Window's
>>XP. I do not know if there is a version 16 of SPSS that works with
>>Window's 7 since it is updated so frequently.
>>
>>When you open SPSS, there are 2 windows, the data view, and the
>>variable view. The variable view is where you label your variables. It
>>is best to do this first. Each row represents a variable like age or
>>gender, and each column represents something about that variable that
>>you can set like how many decimal places to round to, what type of
>>variable it is, etc. this is where you can code for variables. For
>>example, you can specify 1 for males and 2 for females. This way, you
>>could just enter 1 or 2 into the gender column of the data view, and
>>the output table which I will describe later would then code the
>>findings accordingly.
>>
>>Pressing control t toggles between the variable and data views. The
>>data view can be described as a spreadsheet. Each column represents
>>one of the variables you specified in the variable view. The variable
>>you specified in the first row of the variable view is the title of
>>column 1 in the data view. Each row of the data view represents a
>>case, or one subject of the study. Typically, people would enter their
>>data into the data view. However, my friend prefers to save the SPSS
>>file as an Excel file at this point. The reason for this is that JAWS
>>lags when moving among cells, so she can enter data faster in Excel.
>>Also, each time you move down a case in the data view, JAWS specifies
>>the variable name. This would be somewhat tolerable if it simply said
>>the variable such as age or gender, but it says a lot of other
>>syntax-like crap as well which contributes to JAWS lagging. My
>>communications instructor at BLIND, Inc. said that there could be some
>>options in verbosity to eliminate some of what JAWS says, but I
>>haven't explored this.
>>
>>So, once you save as an Excel file, you can open the Excel file and
>>enter your data. The columns in Excel would correspond to the columns
>>in SPSS, so whatever data corresponds to the variable in row 1 of the
>>variable view should be entered in column A in Excel.
>>
>>At this point, I would close the SPSS file so as not to confuse it
>>with the SPSS file you will make later.
>>
>>Since the purpose of SPSS is the ability to run a variety of data
>>analyses, you have to save the Excel file as an SPSS file once you
>>have entered your data. You can then open the SPSS file. The analyses
>>are found in the menus. Once you run an analysis, an output table will
>>appear, but JAWS will not say anything. So, you have to export it (NOT
>>SAVE AS) to Excel. After doing this, you can then easily read the
>>results of the output table.
>>
>>My friend also prefers to explore data sets by saving them as Excel
>>files because of JAWS lags and because you cannot do searches for data
>>within SPSS.
>>
>>I am also working on Macs at BLIND, Inc., and we downloaded the trial
>>version of SPSS onto one of the MacBooks. I was unable to navigate
>>anything when entering the program, but now that I have a
>>conceptualization of what is supposed to be there, we will try again,
>>and I will let you know if I get anywhere with it.
>>
>>There are a ton of things I can go into about SPSS, but I think that a
>>lot of it can be explored or learned in statistics classes. I think
>>that the important thing is to gain a conceptual idea of SPSS. I had a
>>positive experience since I had run into so many dead ends. Although
>>version 16 is somewhat hard to find in school settings which are
>>constantly updating technology, IBM is doing beta accessibility
>>testing for version 20, and I am supposed to receive more information
>>about that in April. So, maybe that will be better. However, at this
>>point, I would fight for version 16. I know that it can be tedious and
>>that Excel and other free softwares are more accessible and can
>>perform some of the analyses, but SPSS is a really good skill to have.
>>It is the common software for schools and workplaces, and it seems to
>>be more comprehensive than other programs.
>>
>>If you are interested in learning more about the beta testing, you can
>>email lar at us.ibm.com. I have no idea if they are still taking beta
>>testers, and it was about a week before I got a response, so don't be
>>disconcerted if you don't get a reply immediately. Other than that, I
>>know nothing about the promised accessibility of future versions or
>>about the beta testing process.
>>
>>If you would like me to explain anything in more detail, just let me
>>know. And, if you have any more knowledge about the program like
>>accessible features I might have left out, please share.
>>
>>--
>>Cindy Bennett
>>B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>
>>clb5590 at gmail.com
>>828.989.5383
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>nabs-l mailing list
>>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carisuekness%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  1 01:23:38 2012
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy)
Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 19:23:38 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] SPSS info
In-Reply-To: <CA+6VNgN-5R64DFkbaqumF7_iAMdOBiSotSPdWS3STm9Upv6dLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACUFQdw94go_9ufx78bmfJUsQjTzVBRMW38A90M5Ac8hjJPtug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJC_yvOySheO-nZ0E+MoHrEsnnB3S8K+L=YMLT34LExc2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgN-5R64DFkbaqumF7_iAMdOBiSotSPdWS3STm9Upv6dLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1B3156C2-DAC2-4FDA-84E6-45EC2A768A72@gmail.com>

Oh, and Katie, I have a question for you. My friend  uses version 16 with xp. Do you know if it works with window's 7?

Cindy


Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 29, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Arielle,
> 
> I have been using SPSS 16 for data analysis during the past three
> years, and it has served me reasonably well. JAWS does read the list
> of variables when I open a dialogue box using the menus, and I can
> select the appropriate independent and dependent variables without any
> problems. The time lag while moving my cursor between cells, as Cindy
> mentioned, is a bit of an annoyance, so like her friend I also prefer
> to do a lot of data entry and processing in Excel first before taking
> the file into SPSS. My personal license for version 16 is expiring in
> a few months though, and I recently got SPSS 19 set up on my work
> computer. I haven't done much with the new program yet after
> downloading the accessibility patch, but it appears to be working OK
> so far.
> 
> I really hope that IBM will improve the accessibility in SPSS 20.
> While SAS is a great alternative, it does involve learning a different
> set of commands and syntax, which I personally found a little
> intimidating. Also, most of my colleagues in the Psychology department
> use SPSS, so it is easy to find information if I have questions about
> how to run particular analyses, especially when additional
> macros/scripts are involved.
> 
> Katie
> 
> 
> On 2/28/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Cindy,
>> When you run analyses in SPSS Version 16 using the menus, does JAWS
>> read the list of variables and allow you to select your independent
>> variable, dependent variable, etc. from the variable view? When I used
>> SPSS 15 (back in 2008) I was able to access the menus but JAWS would
>> not read the list of variables so I had to get around it by creating
>> an abridged SPSS datafile with just the two or three variables I
>> wanted to work with in each separate analysis, which is obviously a
>> big pain. Is SPSS 16 better about letting you read the list of
>> variables and select one when setting up your analysis?
>> BTW, I now use SAS, which is a bazillion times better in terms of
>> accessibility. Unfortunately, it's less commonly used and you have to
>> learn syntax, or commands you type in. I can send you some commands if
>> you are interested and have access to SAS.
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>> 
>> On 2/28/12, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> A while ago, I mentioned that I would receive some training from a
>>> grad student I know with JAWS and SPSS. She has been very helpful, and
>>> I wanted to share what I have learned so far.
>>> 
>>> Right now, she uses SPSS versions 16 and 19. 19 is the current
>>> version, and most schools and research workplaces keep the current
>>> version. She had to go through her school to get version 16.
>>> 
>>> She has version 19 on her work desktop. Before she could even use it
>>> with JAWS, she had to obtain a fix from Freedom Scientific. This fix
>>> actually works. I remember trying one that came out for version 17
>>> when I was in undergrad stats, and it didn’t work, but this one does,
>>> so that is an improvement.  Before she uses SPSS, she has to close all
>>> programs, restart the computer, and only run JAWS and SPSS. She had to
>>> add RAM to her computer so that it has 8 gigs which is more than the
>>> typical computer has. Apparently, the computer cannot handle running
>>> JAWS and SPSS with under that amount of RAM.
>>> 
>>> Even after those accommodations to maximize the productivity of the
>>> program, she says that after several analyses, the computer sometimes
>>> restarts. That being said, she is working at a professional research
>>> firm, so homework assignments for stats classes would definitely not
>>> be working with data sets of 31 thousand.
>>> 
>>> The version we practiced on was 16 since it works better with JAWS,
>>> and since it is on her work laptop. She is using JAWS 12 and Window’s
>>> XP. I do not know if there is a version 16 of SPSS that works with
>>> Window’s 7 since it is updated so frequently.
>>> 
>>> When you open SPSS, there are 2 windows, the data view, and the
>>> variable view. The variable view is where you label your variables. It
>>> is best to do this first. Each row represents a variable like age or
>>> gender, and each column represents something about that variable that
>>> you can set like how many decimal places to round to, what type of
>>> variable it is, etc. this is where you can code for variables. For
>>> example, you can specify 1 for males and 2 for females. This way, you
>>> could just enter 1 or 2 into the gender column of the data view, and
>>> the output table which I will describe later would then code the
>>> findings accordingly.
>>> 
>>> Pressing control t toggles between the variable and data views. The
>>> data view can be described as a spreadsheet. Each column represents
>>> one of the variables you specified in the variable view. The variable
>>> you specified in the first row of the variable view is the title of
>>> column 1 in the data view. Each row of the data view represents a
>>> case, or one subject of the study. Typically, people would enter their
>>> data into the data view. However, my friend prefers to save the SPSS
>>> file as an Excel file at this point. The reason for this is that JAWS
>>> lags when moving among cells, so she can enter data faster in Excel.
>>> Also, each time you move down a case in the data view, JAWS specifies
>>> the variable name. This would be somewhat tolerable if it simply said
>>> the variable such as age or gender, but it says a lot of other
>>> syntax-like crap as well which contributes to JAWS lagging. My
>>> communications instructor at BLIND, Inc. said that there could be some
>>> options in verbosity to eliminate some of what JAWS says, but I
>>> haven’t explored this.
>>> 
>>> So, once you save as an Excel file, you can open the Excel file and
>>> enter your data. The columns in Excel would correspond to the columns
>>> in SPSS, so whatever data corresponds to the variable in row 1 of the
>>> variable view should be entered in column A in Excel.
>>> 
>>> At this point, I would close the SPSS file so as not to confuse it
>>> with the SPSS file you will make later.
>>> 
>>> Since the purpose of SPSS is the ability to run a variety of data
>>> analyses, you have to save the Excel file as an SPSS file once you
>>> have entered your data. You can then open the SPSS file. The analyses
>>> are found in the menus. Once you run an analysis, an output table will
>>> appear, but JAWS will not say anything. So, you have to export it (NOT
>>> SAVE AS) to Excel. After doing this, you can then easily read the
>>> results of the output table.
>>> 
>>> My friend also prefers to explore data sets by saving them as Excel
>>> files because of JAWS lags and because you cannot do searches for data
>>> within SPSS.
>>> 
>>> I am also working on Macs at BLIND, Inc., and we downloaded the trial
>>> version of SPSS onto one of the MacBooks. I was unable to navigate
>>> anything when entering the program, but now that I have a
>>> conceptualization of what is supposed to be there, we will try again,
>>> and I will let you know if I get anywhere with it.
>>> 
>>> There are a ton of things I can go into about SPSS, but I think that a
>>> lot of it can be explored or learned in statistics classes. I think
>>> that the important thing is to gain a conceptual idea of SPSS. I had a
>>> positive experience since I had run into so many dead ends. Although
>>> version 16 is somewhat hard to find in school settings which are
>>> constantly updating technology, IBM is doing beta accessibility
>>> testing for version 20, and I am supposed to receive more information
>>> about that in April. So, maybe that will be better. However, at this
>>> point, I would fight for version 16. I know that it can be tedious and
>>> that Excel and other free softwares are more accessible and can
>>> perform some of the analyses, but SPSS is a really good skill to have.
>>> It is the common software for schools and workplaces, and it seems to
>>> be more comprehensive than other programs.
>>> 
>>> If you are interested in learning more about the beta testing, you can
>>> email lar at us.ibm.com. I have no idea if they are still taking beta
>>> testers, and it was about a week before I got a response, so don’t be
>>> disconcerted if you don’t get a reply immediately. Other than that, I
>>> know nothing about the promised accessibility of future versions or
>>> about the beta testing process.
>>> 
>>> If you would like me to explain anything in more detail, just let me
>>> know. And, if you have any more knowledge about the program like
>>> accessible features I might have left out, please share.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Cindy Bennett
>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>> 
>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>> 828.989.5383
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From dandrews at visi.com  Thu Mar  1 02:36:41 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 20:36:41 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: BlindHow.com March Madness begins
Message-ID: <auto-000050178847@mailfront4.g2host.com>


>
>The blindhow.com contest for a $100 iTunes certificate begins 
>tomorrow March 1, 2012.  Last year The NFB of Utah launched a new 
>website, BlindHow.com. This sight has been up for more than six 
>months during which time we have received over 500 posts with over 
>160 comments from over 370 members. Thank you to each of you that 
>have contributed to BlindHow.com. We have had an extremely 
>successful six plus months and look forward to the continued success 
>in the upcoming months and years. Whether you have submitted 
>content, made comments, asked questions, or even just used the 
>website to obtain information, we thank you.
>
>On March 1, 2012, BlindHow.com will be implementing an exciting 
>incentive program! The purpose? We want you to visit, sign up, test 
>drive, make comments, rank content, and become a contributor by 
>submitting articles, videos and audio files. There are thousands of 
>resources available on the web, but they are scattered and they take 
>valuable time to find and sift through. We encourage you to submit 
>content from the web that you have found enlightening, positive, 
>and/or helpful. We also welcome original articles, videos, or audio 
>tutorials. We want and welcome both!
>
>How the contest works:
>
>This contest will be a drawing, so anyone who participates has a 
>chance to win. Every time you post original content to the website, 
>we enter your name into the drawing 7 times. Every time you post 
>information from another source, we enter your name into the drawing 
>3 times. Every time you make a comment on someone else's post, we 
>enter your name into the drawing 1 time.
>
>
>
>The contest will go from March 1, 2012 to April 15, 2012. Please 
>email <mailto:admin at blindhow.com>admin at blindhow.com to report any 
>content you post or comments you make on BlindHow.com as this will 
>be the only method used to track participation in the contest.
>
>If you haven't visited us, please check out BlindHow.com and see 
>what it is all about. BlindHow.com allows for community members to 
>view and share video, audio, or written tutorials and information on 
>a myriad of topics regarding blindness and visual impairment.
>
>Topics could include things like, "How do you use an iPhone with 
>voiceover?" "This is how I put on makeup every day: how do you?" 
>"How do you mow your lawn?" "This is how I downhill ski."
>
>If you can't find the answer you are looking for, then we want you 
>to ask! If you have something to share, then become a contributor 
>today! We know that there are many different ways to do one thing. 
>For example, I may iron my shirt one way and you another. Knowledge 
>is power and sharing is caring! You can make a difference.
>
>Our primary goal is to create a positive environment where community 
>members are willing to ask thoughtful questions and share knowledge 
>related to blindness and visual impairment that will improve lives, 
>encourage independence, and increase self-confidence.
>
>To all, best of wishes.
>
>Warmest regards,
>
>The BlindHow Team
>
>P.S. Please remember to let us know of any way we can improve your 
>experience on BlindHow.com. We take your feedback seriously and have 
>already made several improvements as a result of the feedback we 
>have received. As always, we look forward to your continued support 
>and website participation.
>
>Check out the website at BlindHow.com today and click on the $100 
>iTunes incentive link for more information and sign up today! For 
>additional questions, suggestions, or input, please email 
><mailto:admin at blindhow.com>admin at blindhow.com.
>
>

From dandrews at visi.com  Thu Mar  1 03:25:53 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 21:25:53 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] BANA Publishes Full Article on the
 Evolution of Braille
Message-ID: <auto-000050841258@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>Press Release
>February 2012
>For Immediate Release
>CONTACT: Frances Mary D'Andrea, Chair
>Braille Authority of North America
>Phone: 412-521--5797
>Email:
>literacy2 at mindspring.com
>BANA Publishes Full Article on the Evolution of Braille
>The Braille Authority of North America (BANA) has released the final segment
>of a three-part article on the evolution of braille, which was 
>authored by the
>BANA Board. The article is titled "The Evolution of Braille: Can the 
>Past Help
>Plan the Future?" and is posted on the BANA website at:
>www.brailleauthority.org.
>Those who have followed this article know that Part One focuses on the
>changing nature of communication methods used by braille readers. It also
>looks at other relevant transitions, such as how blind children are educated,
>the range of available technologies, and the evolution of braille and print.
>Part Two of the article focuses on the complexities of code building 
>as well as
>on current challenges in transcription, translation, and backtranslation of
>braille. In Part Three, BANA presents possible solutions to the 
>pressing issues
>described in the first two parts.
>The three individual segments of the article are available on the BANA
>website. In addition, the three parts have been combined into one
>consolidated piece, which is also available at
>www.brailleauthority.org.
>BANA encourages everyone who is interested in the future of braille to read
>and consider the implications and the challenges presented in this 
>article. We
>also invite your feedback and comments.
>Follow BANA's work via BANA-Announce, a one-way email list that shares
>news and information. To join this list, send a blank email to
>bana-announce-
>subscribe at brailleauthority.org
>and follow the directions in the confirmation
>email.
>The mission and purpose of the Braille Authority of North America 
>are to assure literacy
>for tactile readers through the standardization of braille and/or 
>tactile graphics. BANA
>promotes and facilitates the use, teaching, and production of 
>braille. It publishes rules,
>interprets, and renders opinions pertaining to braille in all 
>existing codes. It deals with
>codes now in existence or to be developed in the future, in 
>collaboration with other
>countries using English braille. In exercising its function and 
>authority, BANA considers
>the effects of its decisions on other existing braille codes and 
>formats; the ease of
>production by various methods; and acceptability to readers.
>_______________________________________________
>BANA-Announce mailing list
>BANA-Announce at brailleauthority.org
>http://www.brailleauthority.org/mailman/listinfo/bana-announce

From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com  Thu Mar  1 04:28:05 2012
From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen)
Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 22:28:05 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Notes for February
Message-ID: <007f01ccf763$b37cdf30$1a769d90$@com>

NABS Notes

 

February 2012

 

 

In this edition of NABS’ monthly bulletin:

 

1. NABS Café a Huge Success

2. NFB Scholarships Deadline Approaching

3. National Convention Planning Committee Seeking Members

4. State Announcements

5. Meeting Minutes

 

NABS Café a Huge Success

 

Thanks to everybody who came out to our NABS Café fundraiser in Washington
at the beginning of the month. We sold over 120 tickets to the event, and
raised over $2,000 for the work we do in NABS. Special thanks to planning
committee members Domonique Lawless, Briley Pollard, Shelby Ball, Corbb
O’Connor and Elizabeth Mohnke, as well as everybody on and off the board who
volunteered to help at the event. Also Huge thanks to all-star auctioneer
Jacki Brown, as well as all who shared their musical talents. We all had a
great time at the event and very much appreciate all the support we got from
across our NFB family.

 

NFB Scholarships Deadline Approaching

 

The headline really says it all! Each year, the NFB gives out 30
scholarships, ranging in value from $3,000 to $12,000, to legally blind
students in the U.S. If you want a piece of that cash, you’ve got to apply!
Applications are due March 31. Please follow this link to find out
everything you need to know about the scholarship program:

http://www.nfb.org/scholarship-program

 

National Convention Planning Committee Seeking Members

 

Your NABS Board is already hard at work putting together an exciting and
informative program for National Convention in Dallas this summer, and we’d
love to have your input! If you are interested in helping out with
fundraising, our meeting agenda, logistics, or anything else, please just
send an email to nabs.president at gmail.com and let me know. We’d love to put
you to work. It’s relatively painless, we promise, and you might even have
fun!

 

State Announcements

 

Note: All announcements are printed below as they were received from their
senders. No effort to edit for content, grammar or clarity has been made on
the part of NABS.

 

Maryland

 

We got off to a great start in 2012!  We held a meeting outside of Baltimore
and co-sponsored a weekend event with BISM.  From both of these events, we
gained a good amount of new members.  On April 14th, we will be cooking and
serving dinner, and teaching children about Braille, at a homeless shelter.
Our first annual "Day at the Park" will take place in May, and we are
planning to host an Open-Mic Night fund raiser in September.  We set up a
list serve, mdabs at nfbnet.org, and now have a fund raising and a
membership/events committee.

 

Nevada

 

Our conference call meeting on Saturday. February 25th from 5pm-6pm (1 hr)

Members began discussion of  a West Coast Regional NABS Seminar to be held
in Las Vegas, Nevada: to be held around Sept./Oct. 2012 and suggested topics
for seminar (speakers, banquet, workshops on technology/vocational
rehabilitation/etc, social activities, and resource fair) 

Next Nevada NABS conference call meeting will be announced via email/phone
calls: agenda, so far, for next conference call will be:
discussion/assignments of committees for Regional Seminar and update in
surrounding states interested in attending Regional Seminar

 

New Mexico

 

The New Mexico Association of Blind Students is currently working hard on
recruiting for state convention. Our state convention will take place April
13-15 at the Uptown Sheraton. The hotel is located at 2600 Louisiana Blvd.
NE. Albuquerque NM 87110. If you are a high school, college, technical
school, orientation center, or other student interested in joining or
learning more about the New Mexico Association of blind students, please
contact Tara Chavez, president at nmabs.president at gmail.com. Our next
membership call will be held via teleconference on Sunday March 18, 2012 at
7:00PM MDT. The call-in information is (218_ 339-2699 access code: 725279#.

We are working on fundraising ideas such as having a pancake breakfast at
Apple Bee's on Saturday March 31st and going ice skating on March 10th.

Again, if you have questions, contact Tara Chavez.

Thank you,

Tara

 

Meeting Minutes

 

Please find the minutes for NABS’ February 2012 board meeting pasted below.
As always, please do not hesitate to contact me with any questions, concerns
or suggestions. The NABS Board works for you, and we want to know how we’re
doing! Thanks for reading, and we’ll be back in March.

 

Sean Whalen

President, National Association of Blind Students

(608) 332-4147

Nabs.president at gmail.com

 

National Association of Blind Students

 

Board Meeting Minutes

February 19, 2012

 

Meeting called to order at 8:37 P.M. eastern

 

Members Present:

 

Sean Whalen

Karen Anderson

Darian Smith

Cindy Bennett

Shelby Ball

Candice Chapman

Meghan Whalen

Briley Pollard

Domonique Lawless

 

Committee Reports

 

Fundraising: The auction was successful. Thank you’s need to be written

 

Membership: High school committee had a call and discussed how to reach out
to more high school students. There will be a scholarships call.

 

Slate: The winter slate was published before Washington Seminar.

 

Website: The contact page has been updated and a resource page is being
worked on.

 

Treasury report:

Currently 

Savings: $1,503.19

Checking: $1,483.05

National has not cashed the $1,000 check. Pennies for Pages checks have not
been cashed.

Washington seminar

Registration: $345

Auction tickets: $626 

Donations: $16

Raffle tickets: $89 

$2,560 from auction items

$1,375 was credit card transactions and $25 has to be taken out for credit
card transaction fees

Balance is $5,094.05

After expenses: $3,880.05

$486 check donation for the purchase of Disney passes which were auctioned
off

Shelby made a motion to pay off the outstanding reimbursements. Cindy
seconded it. Motion passed.

 

Old Business

 

Rep Requests: Missouri is looking for someone, Darian probably. New Mexico
also asked for Darian. Texas asked for someone, and the state affiliate
seems to be willing to help with transportation. Sean or Karen will go.
Shelby is going to the NC student seminar. Mississippi is looking for a
national rep. Shelby or Domonique might go.

 

Washington Seminar: The seminar was kind of disorganized, but the content
was good.

 

New Business

 

NABS Leadership Seminar: A committee was formed to plan the seminar.

 

CD project: A committee was formed to help.

 

National convention: Think of a fundraiser and interesting agenda items. An
agenda committee was formed. We will do Monte Carlo and another fundraiser.

 

 

 

 

 

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From amylsabo at comcast.net  Thu Mar  1 05:06:25 2012
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 22:06:25 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] a summary of tonight's NABS membership call
In-Reply-To: <CABpnAxHKwtaMEM-Rxq0png5vYNW4_+TwX8JK8MT0NTDtKdRhvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABpnAxHKwtaMEM-Rxq0png5vYNW4_+TwX8JK8MT0NTDtKdRhvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <022001ccf769$0e895610$2b9c0230$@comcast.net>

Dear chris,

Thanks for a wonderful job that you did about this summary of this
conference call which was held on this past Sunday night.

You did a wonderful job and, thanks for doing this for nabs!

Take care and, I will talk to you soon.




Hugs,
amy

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 7:24 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: mdabs; jsotwel at carrollk12.org
Subject: [nabs-l] a summary of tonight's NABS membership call

Hello fellow NABS members,

As we do every month, the National Association of Blind Students
(NABS) has a membership conference call, in which we pick a topic to discuss
and possibly have guest speakers to talk about that topic, in an effort to
provide more information to blind students about topics of interest to us.
This month's call, entitled All About Scholarships, was no exception. For
those of you who were not able to attend the conference call or listen to
the stream of it live on Audio Access FM, I am providing a short summary of
the things discussed and the information provided in tonight's call.

This month, the topic for our membership call was "All About Scholarships."
As many of us know as blind students, scholarships are very important to us
if we plan on going to college, so this is an important topic. To tell us
about their organization's scholarships, we had 3 guest speakers on
tonight's call: Patti Gregory-Chang, Chair of the Scholarship Comittee (at
the national level) for the National Federation of the Blind; Mark Lucas,
Executive Director of the United States Association of Blind Athletes, and
Melissa Greenwald of Learning Ally, formerly RFB&D. First up was Patti
Chang, to talk about the 30 scholarships the NFB offers for blind college
students. These scholarships range in value from $3000 to $12000 and anyone
who is legally blind and who is registered at an accredited college can
apply. As Patti discussed in her portion of the call, an applicant must have
these requirements: (1) an applicant must be legally blind in both eyes
(2200 or worse in best eye,) (2) the applicant must have a completed
application, (3) must be registered at an accredited college or university
(online schools, if accredited, do count) and must be there to earn a
degree, and (4) a finalist must attend the full national convention of the
Federation in Dallas from June 30 to July 5, 2012. Applications for NFB
scholarships can be either filled out online or downloaded and mailed in as
a print application. The link to the NFB scholarship page, where you can
fill out or download the application, is www.nfb.org/scholarships. If you
have any questions about the NFB scholarship program, you can email Patti
Chang at pattichang at att.net or the scholarships email, which is
scholarships at nfb.org. If you need any further assistance, you can call
Loraine Rovig at the national center.

Our next speaker was Mark Lucas, Executive Director of the United States
Association of Blind Athletes (USABA,) to talk about the scholarships they
provide. These scholarships are called the Arthur and Helen Copeland
Scholarship Awards, and are given to 1 male, and 1 female blind college
student. The only requirements USABA has for eligibility for the scholarship
program is that the applicant must be legally blind and must be a college
student in an accredited college.
The application for their scholarship can be found at www.usaba.org.
If you have any questions, you are encouraged to contact Mark Lucas by email
at mlucas at usaba.org.

Our final speaker was Melissa Greenwald of Learning Ally, formerly Recording
for the Blind and Dyslexic (RFB&D.) They offer scholarships to deserving
blind college students as well. The requirements to be eligible to receive
the Learning Ally scholarships are the same as those of the other
scholarships I have mentioned, with this exception:
to be eligible for the Learning Ally scholarship, you must have a grade
point average (GPA) of at least 3.0 on a 4.0 scale, or something equivalent
to that if your school does not follow that scale for GPA's. The application
for the Learning Ally awards can be either filled out online or downloaded
and printed in Microsoft Word or PDF format from
www.learningally.org/awards. If you have any questions about the Learning
Ally award program, email Mellisa Greenwald at mgreenwald at learningally.org.

With that information, the call concluded, and so does this summary. I hope
this summary helped those of you who were unable to be on the call. If you
would like to listen to the call itself, David Dunphy recorded it and will
be posting it to the NABS Web site within a few days. In the meantime, I
hope you found this summary to be beneficial!

Thanks,

Chris Nusbaum

--
Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real problem
is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists. If a blind person
has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere
physical nuissence." -- Kenneth Jernigan

Visit the I C.A.N. Foundation online at: www.icanfoundation.info for
information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually impaired
children in MD say "I can!"

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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From amylsabo at comcast.net  Thu Mar  1 05:11:45 2012
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 22:11:45 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Ready Or Not Here Comes Another Nabs Membership Call
In-Reply-To: <05877A566C174AA5A22596769FEDDA1B@pc2011>
References: <05877A566C174AA5A22596769FEDDA1B@pc2011>
Message-ID: <022601ccf769$cd396820$67ac3860$@comcast.net>

Dear david,

Thanks for the update and very amusing note about it! I'm sorry for the late
notice about it but, my sister knows all about it herself and, is applying
for the national scholarship for the nfb and also for the nfb of Colorado
one which is the state scholarship program too! So, wish her luck on it!

Thanks again and, I will talk to you soon.




Hugs,
amy

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of David Dunphy
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2012 2:53 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Ready Or Not Here Comes Another Nabs Membership Call

Greetings Students And Other Nabs Members!
Charge up your cell phones, or boot up your computers, and prepare to join
us during these very cold winter months for a rather hot topic: How To Win
Money From The NFB and The United States Association Of Blind Athletes!
OK OK, I know that's simplifying things just a little too much, *smile* but
the truth is...
The NFB has some great academic scholarships up for grabs, and tonight on
the Nabs Membership committee call starting at 7 PM eastern, you'll..
Meet the scholarship chair
Learn what's available in terms of scholarship money How to apply What makes
a winning scholarship application And how a little athletic ability can
bring you a whole lot of scholarship money from the United States
Association Of Blind Athletes...
And your questions will be taken and answered throughout the call, so come
and learn how to make the cost load for school a little lighter through a
scholarship!

To listen to tonight's call, either:
Pick up the phone and call
1-712-775-7100, Conference Code 257963
followed by the pound sign
Or, you can tune in to the call using your computer! Simply head on over to
http://www.nabslinkaudio.org where you'll find a link on the main page to
tune in to the call using your computer's default media player.
Can't make the call? You'll still have a chance to learn about scholarship
opportunities by downloading a copy of the call a few hours after it
completes.
Regardless of how you listen, you're guaranteed to walk away with a wealth
of knowledge about...Well...Wealth...For your academic endeavors, so don't
mis the call, we look forward to seeing you there!!!
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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From amylsabo at comcast.net  Thu Mar  1 05:19:43 2012
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 22:19:43 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Mainstream is back! Main Menu is on the air and Battle
	of the Notetakers begins tonight!
In-Reply-To: <CABpnAxHURx-abW+k8k_LYUTNemMOpt5n0E8hKGCT5C9T5+qCMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABpnAxHURx-abW+k8k_LYUTNemMOpt5n0E8hKGCT5C9T5+qCMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <022701ccf76a$e9b04860$bd10d920$@comcast.net>

Dear chris and all,

First of aall chris thanks for presenting this awesome news to the list.
Yes, I too am a nfb person but, I enjoy acbri and mainstream myself too
since the nfb doesn't have a internet radio station. I'm glad that main menu
has a twitter feed. I also want to let you all know if any of you are on
facebook I created a facebook page for acbri in 2008-2009 and, I think I
need to update it since I haven't done it lately. I will post the link
asap,. But, if any of you are on facebook you should check it out!


Thanks again and, I will talk to you all soon.




Hugs,
amy

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 7:50 PM
To: ACBRadio Friends List; mm-friends
Cc: braillenote; National Association of Blind Students mailing list;
brandon
Subject: [nabs-l] Mainstream is back! Main Menu is on the air and Battle of
the Notetakers begins tonight!

Hello everyone,

Well, the subject says it all! After a little time in which the stream for
ACB Radio Mainstream was down, I am happy to report that it is once again
live! Main Menu is currently on the air, and David Tanner is currently
interviewing Rickie Enger from Serotek about the release of the new version
of their Accessible Event meeting platform. After this interview, Main Menu
will begin a new series entitled The Battle of the Notetakers. This series
will compare the features of 5 popular notetakers, and help you make an
informed decision about which notetaker to buy, and if you want a notetaker
at all! From the responses I have seen on the Main Menu Friends list and on
Main Menu's Twitter page, this seems to be a very highly anticipated series,
and you might want to take a listen to it. So head on over to
www.acbradio.org/mainstream, and click the link for your player of choice to
listen to the notetakers battle it out! Enjoy!

Thanks,

Chris


--
Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real problem
is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists. If a blind person
has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere
physical nuissence." -- Kenneth Jernigan

Visit the I C.A.N. Foundation online at: www.icanfoundation.info for
information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually impaired
children in MD say "I can!"

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net



From amylsabo at comcast.net  Thu Mar  1 05:49:29 2012
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 22:49:29 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] twitter problems
In-Reply-To: <auto-000048326453@mailfront4.g2host.com>
References: <000001cceba5$eab1e500$c015af00$@comcast.net>
	<auto-000048326453@mailfront4.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <023f01ccf76f$128bbcc0$37a33640$@comcast.net>

Hello dave,

Thanks for this information. I have bookmarked it and, I will play around
with it! Thanks again and, I will talk to you soon.




Sincerely,
amy

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of David Andrews
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 8:36 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] twitter problems

There is an accessible twitter web site, www.easychirp.com

Dave

At 11:51 PM 2/14/2012, you wrote:
>Hello all,
>
>I hope that everyone is doing okay and, has a good valentine's day too! 
>Well, as you know twitter has changed its layout on its web site to use 
>twitter as of this past week. I use to tried quitter on my desktop but, 
>it didn't work out at all so, I mainly used the web version of twitter. 
>Which had worked out good until now!
>
>So, is there a accessible version of twitter out there I can use and 
>operate without me having to deal with the inaccessible web site 
>version? And, if so how does it work and, where can I find this out to 
>download it both on my desktop and my laptop?
>
>
>Thanks a bunch,
> From amy


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  1 23:02:26 2012
From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang)
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 18:02:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] SPSS info
In-Reply-To: <1B3156C2-DAC2-4FDA-84E6-45EC2A768A72@gmail.com>
References: <CACUFQdw94go_9ufx78bmfJUsQjTzVBRMW38A90M5Ac8hjJPtug@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJC_yvOySheO-nZ0E+MoHrEsnnB3S8K+L=YMLT34LExc2w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgN-5R64DFkbaqumF7_iAMdOBiSotSPdWS3STm9Upv6dLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<1B3156C2-DAC2-4FDA-84E6-45EC2A768A72@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+6VNgNZPe8KYm=WhHT26uo=8onhZJAik3+wSsF5+OEAwSmoVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Cindy,
Unfortunately, like your friend I have also been using SPSS 16 on a
Windows XP machine, so I'm not sure whether it would work with Windows
7. I can't remember when version 16 was first released-- If it came
out before Windows 7, then I'm guessing they might not be compatible.
And Gloria, I'm a graduate student in social psychology.
Katie


On 2/29/12, Cindy <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh, and Katie, I have a question for you. My friend  uses version 16 with
> xp. Do you know if it works with window's 7?
>
> Cindy
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 29, 2012, at 2:58 PM, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Arielle,
>>
>> I have been using SPSS 16 for data analysis during the past three
>> years, and it has served me reasonably well. JAWS does read the list
>> of variables when I open a dialogue box using the menus, and I can
>> select the appropriate independent and dependent variables without any
>> problems. The time lag while moving my cursor between cells, as Cindy
>> mentioned, is a bit of an annoyance, so like her friend I also prefer
>> to do a lot of data entry and processing in Excel first before taking
>> the file into SPSS. My personal license for version 16 is expiring in
>> a few months though, and I recently got SPSS 19 set up on my work
>> computer. I haven't done much with the new program yet after
>> downloading the accessibility patch, but it appears to be working OK
>> so far.
>>
>> I really hope that IBM will improve the accessibility in SPSS 20.
>> While SAS is a great alternative, it does involve learning a different
>> set of commands and syntax, which I personally found a little
>> intimidating. Also, most of my colleagues in the Psychology department
>> use SPSS, so it is easy to find information if I have questions about
>> how to run particular analyses, especially when additional
>> macros/scripts are involved.
>>
>> Katie
>>
>>
>> On 2/28/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Cindy,
>>> When you run analyses in SPSS Version 16 using the menus, does JAWS
>>> read the list of variables and allow you to select your independent
>>> variable, dependent variable, etc. from the variable view? When I used
>>> SPSS 15 (back in 2008) I was able to access the menus but JAWS would
>>> not read the list of variables so I had to get around it by creating
>>> an abridged SPSS datafile with just the two or three variables I
>>> wanted to work with in each separate analysis, which is obviously a
>>> big pain. Is SPSS 16 better about letting you read the list of
>>> variables and select one when setting up your analysis?
>>> BTW, I now use SAS, which is a bazillion times better in terms of
>>> accessibility. Unfortunately, it's less commonly used and you have to
>>> learn syntax, or commands you type in. I can send you some commands if
>>> you are interested and have access to SAS.
>>> Best,
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 2/28/12, Cindy Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> A while ago, I mentioned that I would receive some training from a
>>>> grad student I know with JAWS and SPSS. She has been very helpful, and
>>>> I wanted to share what I have learned so far.
>>>>
>>>> Right now, she uses SPSS versions 16 and 19. 19 is the current
>>>> version, and most schools and research workplaces keep the current
>>>> version. She had to go through her school to get version 16.
>>>>
>>>> She has version 19 on her work desktop. Before she could even use it
>>>> with JAWS, she had to obtain a fix from Freedom Scientific. This fix
>>>> actually works. I remember trying one that came out for version 17
>>>> when I was in undergrad stats, and it didn’t work, but this one does,
>>>> so that is an improvement.  Before she uses SPSS, she has to close all
>>>> programs, restart the computer, and only run JAWS and SPSS. She had to
>>>> add RAM to her computer so that it has 8 gigs which is more than the
>>>> typical computer has. Apparently, the computer cannot handle running
>>>> JAWS and SPSS with under that amount of RAM.
>>>>
>>>> Even after those accommodations to maximize the productivity of the
>>>> program, she says that after several analyses, the computer sometimes
>>>> restarts. That being said, she is working at a professional research
>>>> firm, so homework assignments for stats classes would definitely not
>>>> be working with data sets of 31 thousand.
>>>>
>>>> The version we practiced on was 16 since it works better with JAWS,
>>>> and since it is on her work laptop. She is using JAWS 12 and Window’s
>>>> XP. I do not know if there is a version 16 of SPSS that works with
>>>> Window’s 7 since it is updated so frequently.
>>>>
>>>> When you open SPSS, there are 2 windows, the data view, and the
>>>> variable view. The variable view is where you label your variables. It
>>>> is best to do this first. Each row represents a variable like age or
>>>> gender, and each column represents something about that variable that
>>>> you can set like how many decimal places to round to, what type of
>>>> variable it is, etc. this is where you can code for variables. For
>>>> example, you can specify 1 for males and 2 for females. This way, you
>>>> could just enter 1 or 2 into the gender column of the data view, and
>>>> the output table which I will describe later would then code the
>>>> findings accordingly.
>>>>
>>>> Pressing control t toggles between the variable and data views. The
>>>> data view can be described as a spreadsheet. Each column represents
>>>> one of the variables you specified in the variable view. The variable
>>>> you specified in the first row of the variable view is the title of
>>>> column 1 in the data view. Each row of the data view represents a
>>>> case, or one subject of the study. Typically, people would enter their
>>>> data into the data view. However, my friend prefers to save the SPSS
>>>> file as an Excel file at this point. The reason for this is that JAWS
>>>> lags when moving among cells, so she can enter data faster in Excel.
>>>> Also, each time you move down a case in the data view, JAWS specifies
>>>> the variable name. This would be somewhat tolerable if it simply said
>>>> the variable such as age or gender, but it says a lot of other
>>>> syntax-like crap as well which contributes to JAWS lagging. My
>>>> communications instructor at BLIND, Inc. said that there could be some
>>>> options in verbosity to eliminate some of what JAWS says, but I
>>>> haven’t explored this.
>>>>
>>>> So, once you save as an Excel file, you can open the Excel file and
>>>> enter your data. The columns in Excel would correspond to the columns
>>>> in SPSS, so whatever data corresponds to the variable in row 1 of the
>>>> variable view should be entered in column A in Excel.
>>>>
>>>> At this point, I would close the SPSS file so as not to confuse it
>>>> with the SPSS file you will make later.
>>>>
>>>> Since the purpose of SPSS is the ability to run a variety of data
>>>> analyses, you have to save the Excel file as an SPSS file once you
>>>> have entered your data. You can then open the SPSS file. The analyses
>>>> are found in the menus. Once you run an analysis, an output table will
>>>> appear, but JAWS will not say anything. So, you have to export it (NOT
>>>> SAVE AS) to Excel. After doing this, you can then easily read the
>>>> results of the output table.
>>>>
>>>> My friend also prefers to explore data sets by saving them as Excel
>>>> files because of JAWS lags and because you cannot do searches for data
>>>> within SPSS.
>>>>
>>>> I am also working on Macs at BLIND, Inc., and we downloaded the trial
>>>> version of SPSS onto one of the MacBooks. I was unable to navigate
>>>> anything when entering the program, but now that I have a
>>>> conceptualization of what is supposed to be there, we will try again,
>>>> and I will let you know if I get anywhere with it.
>>>>
>>>> There are a ton of things I can go into about SPSS, but I think that a
>>>> lot of it can be explored or learned in statistics classes. I think
>>>> that the important thing is to gain a conceptual idea of SPSS. I had a
>>>> positive experience since I had run into so many dead ends. Although
>>>> version 16 is somewhat hard to find in school settings which are
>>>> constantly updating technology, IBM is doing beta accessibility
>>>> testing for version 20, and I am supposed to receive more information
>>>> about that in April. So, maybe that will be better. However, at this
>>>> point, I would fight for version 16. I know that it can be tedious and
>>>> that Excel and other free softwares are more accessible and can
>>>> perform some of the analyses, but SPSS is a really good skill to have.
>>>> It is the common software for schools and workplaces, and it seems to
>>>> be more comprehensive than other programs.
>>>>
>>>> If you are interested in learning more about the beta testing, you can
>>>> email lar at us.ibm.com. I have no idea if they are still taking beta
>>>> testers, and it was about a week before I got a response, so don’t be
>>>> disconcerted if you don’t get a reply immediately. Other than that, I
>>>> know nothing about the promised accessibility of future versions or
>>>> about the beta testing process.
>>>>
>>>> If you would like me to explain anything in more detail, just let me
>>>> know. And, if you have any more knowledge about the program like
>>>> accessible features I might have left out, please share.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cindy Bennett
>>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>>>
>>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>>> 828.989.5383
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>


From JHartle at nfb.org  Fri Mar  2 19:23:51 2012
From: JHartle at nfb.org (Hartle, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2012 11:23:51 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Legislative Alert-Surface Transportation Bill
Message-ID: <8AFFB8D1E8D6904090DF5B33AABB802506F2890D9E@VA3DIAXVS661.RED001.local>



Fellow Federationists:

I am writing to update you on a potential threat to the Randolph-Sheppard program.  Congressman LaTourette and Senator Portman of Ohio are planning to offer amendments to the House and Senate versions of the surface transportation bill.  Their amendments would allow states to commercialize rest areas on federal highways and interstates.  It appears that the Senate is going to take the first action early next week (March 5-9), considering amendments to the Senate surface transportation bill, S. 1813.  Senator Portman's amendment is number 1742.

Currently, many blind vendors operate vending machines at interstate rest areas throughout the country.  If commercialization is allowed, these blind vendors stand a great chance of losing their livelihoods.  We must educate our members of Congress about the impact of commercialization on blind vendors.

I will be updating this issue as information becomes available; however, we are asking you to take immediate action to defeat this threat to the Randolph-Sheppard program.  It is essential that we make as many calls as possible on Monday, March 5, 2012.  Please see the action items listed below, and contact me with any questions.  I have included my contact information at the end of this message.  Thank you all very much in advance for your work on this issue!

Please take the following action items:

?         Call your senators and urge them to oppose amendment number 1742 to the surface transportation bill, S. 1813.  You can be connected to your senators by calling the Capitol Switchboard at 202-225-3121.

?         Call Senator Portman (202-224-3353), and urge him to withdraw his amendment number 1742 to the Senate transportation bill, S. 1813; we must tell his office that this would negatively impact vendors in the Randolph-Sheppard program.

?         Call Senator Harry Reid (202-224-3542), Senate Majority Leader, and urge him to refuse to allow Senator Portman's amendment number 1742 to be considered during debate on S. 1813 because of the negative impact to blind vendors that would result from this amendment.

?         Call Senator Barbara Boxer (202-224-3553), Chairman of the Senate Committee on the Environment and Public Works, and urge her to oppose any amendment to S. 1813 that calls for commercialization on federal highways and interstates because of the negative impact to blind vendors.

Jesse


Jesse Hartle
Government Programs Specialist
Phone:  (410) 659-9314, Ext. 2233
Email:  jhartle at nfb.org<mailto:jhartle at nfb.org>



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Mar  3 17:48:21 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 12:48:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] a Skype problem
Message-ID: <CABpnAxFjLuVVPO1eimOzcYpSqkO1=LnY033XEgtvVheHwWAyVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

I am having a problem with my Skype and Facebook connection. I have
recently got Skype connected to Facebook, which is really cool... when
it works. However, when I go to my Facebook tab and hit the space bar,
it just shows me my live conversations list box. How can I fix this?
BTW, I'm using JAWS 12 with the JAWS scripts for Skype. Hope you can
help!

Thanks in advance,

Chris

-- 
Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real
problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists. If
a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can
be reduced to a mere physical nuissence." -- Kenneth Jernigan

Visit the I C.A.N. Foundation online at: www.icanfoundation.info for
information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
impaired children in MD say "I can!"


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Mar  3 19:43:30 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2012 14:43:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] [nfb-talk] Podcasts and On-Line Courses
Message-ID: <4f527486.2a23340a.728f.1ef4@mx.google.com>



 ---- Original Message ------
From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com
Subject: [nfb-talk] Podcasts and On-Line Courses
Date sent: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 17:53:24 -0600




Hello.  I am conducting a study on the current uses and 
accessibility
of podcasts in online college courses.  The current uses of audio
podcasts and the accessibility of audio podcasts in U.S.  online
college courses as perceived by learners with vision loss is
unknown.  For that reason, we are requesting that you please take 
our
survey to share your perspective.  A link to the online survey on
Survey Gizmo is below.  The survey will take approximately 15 
minutes
to complete and will be anonymous.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /

<http://edu.surveygizmo.com/s3/725357/Current-Uses-and-Accessibil
ity-of-Podcasts-in-Online-College-Courses>http://edu.surveygizmo.
com/s3/725357/Current-Uses-and-Accessibility-of-Podcasts-in-Onlin
e-College-Courses


Thank you.
Kimarie Whetstone
Doctoral Student
<mailto:whetstonekjw at yahoo.com>whetstonekjw at yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
nfb-talk mailing list
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nfb-talk:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
aum%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Mar  3 22:30:54 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2012 17:30:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Mainstream is back! Main Menu is on the air
	andBattleof the Notetakers begins tonight!
Message-ID: <4f529bc2.4625340a.655a.3a5d@mx.google.com>

Hi Nicole,

Not with ACB Radio, and not if your only media player is Windows 
Media Player.  They don't have a browser player.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 20:22:31 -0800
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Mainstream is back! Main Menu is on the air 
andBattleof the Notetakers begins tonight!

Are there not other ways to listen?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Mainstream is back! Main Menu is on the air 
and
Battleof the Notetakers begins tonight!


 The problem with ACB Radio, as I've mentioned in my previous 
post, is
 that they don't work with WMP.
 I can't listen.
 I'd like to, though.
 Speaking of the NFB starting a radio station, I think they 
should work
 with my friend, Joey Weston, in starting one.
 Through Our Eyes, can merge with this station.
 http://www.crosswavesradio.com
 I'll ask Joey, if he'd be willing to do this, because his 
station is
 struggling for content.
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 2/24/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
 OK Joshua, I get the thing with ACB, but ACB Radio does carry
 some informative programs, like Main Menu.  I'm more of an NFB
 guy, but NFB doesn't have an Internet radio station, and I've
 found Main Menu to be very informative when it comes to
 technology, so I think we all can benefit from programs like
 this.

 Chris

 Chris Nusbaum
 Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
 dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
 Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

 "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
 real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
 exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
 opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
 nuisance."
 -- Kenneth Jernigan

  ----- Original Message -----
 From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 21:01:44 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Mainstream is back! Main Menu is on the 
air
 and Battleof the Notetakers begins tonight!

 Here we go again!
 ACB!
 My main problem, is that I can't get ACB Radio to cooperate, 
with
 Windows Media Player.
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 2/24/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
  Hello everyone,

  Well, the subject says it all! After a little time in which the
 stream
  for ACB Radio Mainstream was down, I am happy to report that it
 is
  once again live! Main Menu is currently on the air, and David
 Tanner
  is currently interviewing Rickie Enger from Serotek about the
 release
  of the new version of their Accessible Event meeting platform.
 After
  this interview, Main Menu will begin a new series entitled The
 Battle
  of the Notetakers.  This series will compare the features of 5
 popular
  notetakers, and help you make an informed decision about which
  notetaker to buy, and if you want a notetaker at all! From the
  responses I have seen on the Main Menu Friends list and on Main
 Menu's
  Twitter page, this seems to be a very highly anticipated 
series,
 and
  you might want to take a listen to it.  So head on over to
  www.acbradio.org/mainstream, and click the link for your player
 of
  choice to listen to the notetakers battle it out! Enjoy!

  Thanks,

  Chris


  --
  Chris Nusbaum

  "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  
The
 real
  problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
 exists.  If
  a blind person has the proper training and opportunity,
 blindness can
  be reduced to a mere physical nuissence." -- Kenneth Jernigan

  Visit the I C.A.N.  Foundation online at:
 www.icanfoundation.info for
  information on our foundation and how it helps blind and
 visually
  impaired children in MD say "I can!"

  _______________________________________________
  nabs-l mailing list
  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
 info for
  nabs-l:

 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
 0students.pccua.edu


 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
 for nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
 m%40gmail.com

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
0students.pccua.edu


 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
wavecable.com


_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Mar  3 22:30:52 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2012 17:30:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Mainstream is back! Main Menu is on the air
	andBattleof the Notetakers begins tonight!
Message-ID: <4f529bc0.4625340a.655a.3a5c@mx.google.com>

Hey Joshua,

On ACB Radio, there should be a link that says "listen to ACB 
Radio (whichever channel you're listening to) using Windows Media 
Player." Click that and it should work.  About the NFB starting a 
radio station, unless we did it on the statewide level or on the 
special-interest division level, for example, NABS Radio, we'd 
probably have to clear it with the national office first.  
Otherwise, we would probably be running into some copyright 
problems.  But I don't see why NFB
can't start our own radio station, so maybe we can talk to Dr.  
Maurer or other national leaders about this.  Who knows; maybe it 
can be a topic for discussion at national convention! BTW, if any 
of you are going to convention this year, I'll be in the Maryland 
section, so if any of you want to meet up, please feel free!

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 21:53:29 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Mainstream is back! Main Menu is on the air 
andBattleof the Notetakers begins tonight!

The problem with ACB Radio, as I've mentioned in my previous 
post, is
that they don't work with WMP.
I can't listen.
I'd like to, though.
Speaking of the NFB starting a radio station, I think they should 
work
with my friend, Joey Weston, in starting one.
Through Our Eyes, can merge with this station.
http://www.crosswavesradio.com
I'll ask Joey, if he'd be willing to do this, because his station 
is
struggling for content.
Blessings, Joshua

On 2/24/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
 OK Joshua, I get the thing with ACB, but ACB Radio does carry
 some informative programs, like Main Menu.  I'm more of an NFB
 guy, but NFB doesn't have an Internet radio station, and I've
 found Main Menu to be very informative when it comes to
 technology, so I think we all can benefit from programs like
 this.

 Chris

 Chris Nusbaum
 Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
 dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
 Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

 "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
 real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
 exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
 opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
 nuisance."
 -- Kenneth Jernigan

  ----- Original Message -----
 From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Fri, 24 Feb 2012 21:01:44 -0600
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Mainstream is back! Main Menu is on the 
air
 and Battleof the Notetakers begins tonight!

 Here we go again!
 ACB!
 My main problem, is that I can't get ACB Radio to cooperate, 
with
 Windows Media Player.
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 2/24/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
  Hello everyone,

  Well, the subject says it all! After a little time in which the
 stream
  for ACB Radio Mainstream was down, I am happy to report that it
 is
  once again live! Main Menu is currently on the air, and David
 Tanner
  is currently interviewing Rickie Enger from Serotek about the
 release
  of the new version of their Accessible Event meeting platform.
 After
  this interview, Main Menu will begin a new series entitled The
 Battle
  of the Notetakers.  This series will compare the features of 5
 popular
  notetakers, and help you make an informed decision about which
  notetaker to buy, and if you want a notetaker at all! From the
  responses I have seen on the Main Menu Friends list and on Main
 Menu's
  Twitter page, this seems to be a very highly anticipated 
series,
 and
  you might want to take a listen to it.  So head on over to
  www.acbradio.org/mainstream, and click the link for your player
 of
  choice to listen to the notetakers battle it out! Enjoy!

  Thanks,

  Chris


  --
  Chris Nusbaum

  "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  
The
 real
  problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
 exists.  If
  a blind person has the proper training and opportunity,
 blindness can
  be reduced to a mere physical nuissence." -- Kenneth Jernigan

  Visit the I C.A.N.  Foundation online at:
 www.icanfoundation.info for
  information on our foundation and how it helps blind and
 visually
  impaired children in MD say "I can!"

  _______________________________________________
  nabs-l mailing list
  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
 info for
  nabs-l:

 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
 0students.pccua.edu


 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
 for nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
 m%40gmail.com

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
0students.pccua.edu


_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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m%40gmail.com


From leanicole1988 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 06:09:17 2012
From: leanicole1988 at gmail.com (Lea williams)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 01:09:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] a Skype problem
In-Reply-To: <CABpnAxFjLuVVPO1eimOzcYpSqkO1=LnY033XEgtvVheHwWAyVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABpnAxFjLuVVPO1eimOzcYpSqkO1=LnY033XEgtvVheHwWAyVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD0KW=ZQuivDMzkXHz=esnCRz-9t+WstJjSkxYB4NPWANFP9NA@mail.gmail.com>

hey try to tab down some times you have to tab down a couple of times,
or listen and see if it says reconnect, if so then press enter.
I get to the facebook tab by pressing ault V and then F. I also have
my skype all in one window.
If you have it the other way, you just press control 3.
You can also get to the tab if you have it all in one window, not sure
about the other way, by pressing control 7.

HTH

On 3/3/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am having a problem with my Skype and Facebook connection. I have
> recently got Skype connected to Facebook, which is really cool... when
> it works. However, when I go to my Facebook tab and hit the space bar,
> it just shows me my live conversations list box. How can I fix this?
> BTW, I'm using JAWS 12 with the JAWS scripts for Skype. Hope you can
> help!
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real
> problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists. If
> a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can
> be reduced to a mere physical nuissence." -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> Visit the I C.A.N. Foundation online at: www.icanfoundation.info for
> information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
> impaired children in MD say "I can!"
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leanicole1988%40gmail.com
>


-- 

Lea Williams

Phone;
704-732-4470
Skipe;
Lea.williams738
Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
Twitter
http://twitter.com/LeaNicole1988


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 07:43:49 2012
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 02:43:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for hawaii?
Message-ID: <4907018732471762118@unknownmsgid>

Hi,
I have a friend that would like to use nfb newsline. He lives in
Hawaii and is wondering if the toll free number would charge him or
not, since Hawaii technically is not part of the continental us. I
don't know myself so figured I'd ask.
Thanks,
Josh

Sent From My iPhone


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 13:36:22 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 08:36:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for hawaii?
In-Reply-To: <4907018732471762118@unknownmsgid>
References: <4907018732471762118@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CABpnAxEPRXLU4c5wveU=ReAeo7xz4CWaYbtK18pNpq4zGVpekQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Josh,

As far as I know, the toll-free number for Newsline will work in any
US state, including Hawaii.

Chris

On 3/4/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I have a friend that would like to use nfb newsline. He lives in
> Hawaii and is wondering if the toll free number would charge him or
> not, since Hawaii technically is not part of the continental us. I
> don't know myself so figured I'd ask.
> Thanks,
> Josh
>
> Sent From My iPhone
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real
problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists. If
a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can
be reduced to a mere physical nuissence." -- Kenneth Jernigan

Visit the I C.A.N. Foundation online at: www.icanfoundation.info for
information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
impaired children in MD say "I can!"


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sun Mar  4 13:57:55 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 07:57:55 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for hawaii?
In-Reply-To: <CABpnAxEPRXLU4c5wveU=ReAeo7xz4CWaYbtK18pNpq4zGVpekQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4907018732471762118@unknownmsgid>
	<CABpnAxEPRXLU4c5wveU=ReAeo7xz4CWaYbtK18pNpq4zGVpekQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOsR4Y3oeTtA4-BQJASVnP5-NLWctALsG10qux7cBcvTNw@mail.gmail.com>

I had a question about Newsline, myself.
How can I get my state paper, (The Arkansas Democrat Gazette,) to them?
Also, (Chris,) what happened to the closing stuff, at the end of your E-mails?
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/4/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Josh,
>
> As far as I know, the toll-free number for Newsline will work in any
> US state, including Hawaii.
>
> Chris
>
> On 3/4/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I have a friend that would like to use nfb newsline. He lives in
>> Hawaii and is wondering if the toll free number would charge him or
>> not, since Hawaii technically is not part of the continental us. I
>> don't know myself so figured I'd ask.
>> Thanks,
>> Josh
>>
>> Sent From My iPhone
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real
> problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists. If
> a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can
> be reduced to a mere physical nuissence." -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> Visit the I C.A.N. Foundation online at: www.icanfoundation.info for
> information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
> impaired children in MD say "I can!"
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 17:11:15 2012
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 09:11:15 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] a mash up of music coming up at 3 pm east on wics radio
	america!
Message-ID: <015D7624-1F43-40AE-97D1-4DBC41B76A0E@gmail.com>

Hello to all. a mash up is coming at 3 pm eastern on wics radio. What is it this  time? We are staying in the country genre, mainly 2009 and 2011. so come take a journey with me across the country listening to country. Bad joke I know. lol!

place: http://listen.ultrastreams.us:8022/stream.m3u 
website: http://wics.cc
time: 3 pm to 5 pm eastern
twitter: @wicsradio This is an announce only twitter

We also have a contest going on. For the first hundred to follow @samusic1 on twitter one person at random will get a copy of close your eyes when it's released so let's take part in that shall we?


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 19:33:28 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2012 14:33:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for hawaii?
Message-ID: <4f53c3ad.c2b8340a.5763.ffffb2bf@mx.google.com>

Hi Josh,

Firstly, if your paper isn't on Newsline yet, you can do 1 of 2 
things: (1) contact your state Newsline sponsor, which is usually 
your state's NLS library and ask them about scanning your paper 
in for Newsline, or (2) contact Newsline at the national office 
by calling 1-866-504-7300 or emailing Bob Watson, the content 
manager for Newsline, at bwatson at nfb.org.  If you need any help, 
let me know; I happen to know Bob.  So I have some connections in 
high places at the NFB! LOL! To answer your second question, when 
I wrote my email in response to Josh's question, I was using 
Gmail's Web interface, which puts email signatures at the very 
bottom of emails, after all the "original message" headers.  I 
usually use KeyMail, which is the built-in email application for 
the BrailleNote.  KeyMail puts signatures after what I write and 
before the original message headers.  Hope that helps!

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 07:57:55 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for hawaii?

I had a question about Newsline, myself.
How can I get my state paper, (The Arkansas Democrat Gazette,) to 
them?
Also, (Chris,) what happened to the closing stuff, at the end of 
your E-mails?
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/4/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi Josh,

 As far as I know, the toll-free number for Newsline will work in 
any
 US state, including Hawaii.

 Chris

 On 3/4/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 I have a friend that would like to use nfb newsline.  He lives 
in
 Hawaii and is wondering if the toll free number would charge him 
or
 not, since Hawaii technically is not part of the continental us.  
I
 don't know myself so figured I'd ask.
 Thanks,
 Josh

 Sent From My iPhone

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com



 --
 Chris Nusbaum

 "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real
 problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If
 a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, 
blindness can
 be reduced to a mere physical nuissence." -- Kenneth Jernigan

 Visit the I C.A.N.  Foundation online at: 
www.icanfoundation.info for
 information on our foundation and how it helps blind and 
visually
 impaired children in MD say "I can!"

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
0students.pccua.edu


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
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From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Mar  4 19:57:23 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2012 13:57:23 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOsR4Y3oeTtA4-BQJASVnP5-NLWctALsG10qux7cBcvTNw@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <4907018732471762118@unknownmsgid>
	<CABpnAxEPRXLU4c5wveU=ReAeo7xz4CWaYbtK18pNpq4zGVpekQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOsR4Y3oeTtA4-BQJASVnP5-NLWctALsG10qux7cBcvTNw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000051277639@mailfront3.g2host.com>

First, to get a paper on NFB Newsline, your state must be a 
sponsor.  If they are, they are the ones who will have to make the 
arrangements.  There is a one time setup fee, and an annual fee as 
well, for adding a paper, I believe both are $5000.

Dave

At 07:57 AM 3/4/2012, you wrote:
>I had a question about Newsline, myself.
>How can I get my state paper, (The Arkansas Democrat Gazette,) to them?
>Also, (Chris,) what happened to the closing stuff, at the end of your E-mails?
>Thanks, Joshua
>
>On 3/4/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi Josh,
> >
> > As far as I know, the toll-free number for Newsline will work in any
> > US state, including Hawaii.
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > On 3/4/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >> I have a friend that would like to use nfb newsline. He lives in
> >> Hawaii and is wondering if the toll free number would charge him or
> >> not, since Hawaii technically is not part of the continental us. I
> >> don't know myself so figured I'd ask.
> >> Thanks,
> >> Josh
> >>
> >> Sent From My iPhone
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Chris Nusbaum



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sun Mar  4 20:04:06 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 14:04:06 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for hawaii?
In-Reply-To: <4f53c3ad.c2b8340a.5763.ffffb2bf@mx.google.com>
References: <4f53c3ad.c2b8340a.5763.ffffb2bf@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvc2yA0Ly7P9rcytd1OAHxFFVWAMLxL6KN_Eg0SpA83DA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the info!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/4/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Josh,
>
> Firstly, if your paper isn't on Newsline yet, you can do 1 of 2
> things: (1) contact your state Newsline sponsor, which is usually
> your state's NLS library and ask them about scanning your paper
> in for Newsline, or (2) contact Newsline at the national office
> by calling 1-866-504-7300 or emailing Bob Watson, the content
> manager for Newsline, at bwatson at nfb.org.  If you need any help,
> let me know; I happen to know Bob.  So I have some connections in
> high places at the NFB! LOL! To answer your second question, when
> I wrote my email in response to Josh's question, I was using
> Gmail's Web interface, which puts email signatures at the very
> bottom of emails, after all the "original message" headers.  I
> usually use KeyMail, which is the built-in email application for
> the BrailleNote.  KeyMail puts signatures after what I write and
> before the original message headers.  Hope that helps!
>
> Chris
>
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
> nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 07:57:55 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for hawaii?
>
> I had a question about Newsline, myself.
> How can I get my state paper, (The Arkansas Democrat Gazette,) to
> them?
> Also, (Chris,) what happened to the closing stuff, at the end of
> your E-mails?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 3/4/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi Josh,
>
>  As far as I know, the toll-free number for Newsline will work in
> any
>  US state, including Hawaii.
>
>  Chris
>
>  On 3/4/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi,
>  I have a friend that would like to use nfb newsline.  He lives
> in
>  Hawaii and is wondering if the toll free number would charge him
> or
>  not, since Hawaii technically is not part of the continental us.
> I
>  don't know myself so figured I'd ask.
>  Thanks,
>  Josh
>
>  Sent From My iPhone
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>  --
>  Chris Nusbaum
>
>  "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
> real
>  problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
> exists.  If
>  a blind person has the proper training and opportunity,
> blindness can
>  be reduced to a mere physical nuissence." -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
>  Visit the I C.A.N.  Foundation online at:
> www.icanfoundation.info for
>  information on our foundation and how it helps blind and
> visually
>  impaired children in MD say "I can!"
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
> 0students.pccua.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Mar  4 21:48:34 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 16:48:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] wordpress question
Message-ID: <700A97CA1D174EAF9F7741D2A5B34A25@OwnerPC>

Hi,
Anyone that use wordpress, how do you create categories? Can you post something in more than one category?

From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 21:51:34 2012
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 16:51:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?
In-Reply-To: <auto-000051277639@mailfront3.g2host.com>
References: <4907018732471762118@unknownmsgid>
	<CABpnAxEPRXLU4c5wveU=ReAeo7xz4CWaYbtK18pNpq4zGVpekQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOsR4Y3oeTtA4-BQJASVnP5-NLWctALsG10qux7cBcvTNw@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000051277639@mailfront3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJOM=2y_dS8ssB1OxBDEO=RdHJD4a=yN5FxXPxm=PTf5KmiGQ@mail.gmail.com>

Uh... $5000? Just for 1 paper?

On 3/4/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> First, to get a paper on NFB Newsline, your state must be a
> sponsor.  If they are, they are the ones who will have to make the
> arrangements.  There is a one time setup fee, and an annual fee as
> well, for adding a paper, I believe both are $5000.
>
> Dave
>
> At 07:57 AM 3/4/2012, you wrote:
>>I had a question about Newsline, myself.
>>How can I get my state paper, (The Arkansas Democrat Gazette,) to them?
>>Also, (Chris,) what happened to the closing stuff, at the end of your
>> E-mails?
>>Thanks, Joshua
>>
>>On 3/4/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi Josh,
>> >
>> > As far as I know, the toll-free number for Newsline will work in any
>> > US state, including Hawaii.
>> >
>> > Chris
>> >
>> > On 3/4/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Hi,
>> >> I have a friend that would like to use nfb newsline. He lives in
>> >> Hawaii and is wondering if the toll free number would charge him or
>> >> not, since Hawaii technically is not part of the continental us. I
>> >> don't know myself so figured I'd ask.
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Josh
>> >>
>> >> Sent From My iPhone
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Chris Nusbaum
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Sent via gmail.com
Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
Skype: joshgregory93
 twitter: JoshG93


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 21:53:11 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2012 16:53:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] punnett squares
Message-ID: <4f53e46c.e96b340a.3965.ffffc0e7@mx.google.com>

Oh yeah! The only problem with that solution, Josh (and BTW, I 
did the same thing in bio last year, that is, my IA, 
instructional assistant, Brailled them for me) is when the 
teacher asks you on an assignment or test or something to 
actually make the punnet square from scratch.  Then you'd have to 
use a Brailler.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 20:13:12 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] punnett squares

Or just ask them to braille them out for you, that's what was 
done for
me.  Took a while for me to get it, but I think the teacher said 
I was
one of the few that actually got the concept.  Btw, brings back
memories, Ashley.  :)

On 2/27/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
 Hi,
 You cannot do punnet squares in a linear form on a braille note.  
Use a
 brailler; yes do them on graph paper or make the  squares 
tactilly somehow.
 I used large print.  But same concepts apply.  Punnet squares 
are a grid of
 squares.  So picture a small table.
 I believe they are two rows, two colums as  I recall.  You put 
two
 letters in each square to represent genes.
 I really hope I explain the representation right as its been 
years since bio
 for me.
 If you bring two of the same letters together, its homozygous.  
Note the
 capital or lowercase letters as I write.
 Capitals are dominant and lower case are recessive.
 Example:  bb for recessive brown eyes.
 Example B B for dominant blue eyes.

 If you have different case of letters, its hetro zygous.
 You look at the top letter and letter on the side to put the 
letters in the
 square.  For instance a Large P for dominant gene on top and on 
the side a
 small O for recessive gene.  So you write P O in the block.
 Quite hard to explain without showing you.  I suggest you ask 
your teachers
 for clarification.

 This video might help; maybe if you watch it with a sighted 
person they can
 help you understand it.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8SQAiVWw_s

 Ashley
 -----Original Message-----
 From: vejas
 Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 7:08 PM
 To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Subject: [nabs-l] punnett squares

 Hi,
 I am really, really, really confused with Punnett squares.  So I
 have some questions about them.

 First, to make them, should I use a Perkins Brailler? I do all 
my
 other science work, as well as for my other subjects except math
 homework, on my Braille-Note Apex.  Would a Perkins Brailler be
 better?
 Also, do you hand-make the grids? I have some graph paper from
 math that I might be able to use, but hand-making them might be
 easier.
 So can you please explain how to make a Punnett? Also, it would
 really help if you could additionally tell me how you learned
 Punnett squares because I'm really confused.
 Thank you for your time.  Attached to this email is a copy of 
the
 questions from the worksheet that I am supposed to do for
 homework.  Ignore Problem 10 and any others that you don't have
 to solve.
 Sincerely,

 Vejas






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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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 nabs-l:
 
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--
Sent via gmail.com
Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
Skype: joshgregory93
 twitter: JoshG93

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 21:53:12 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2012 16:53:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about getting lost
Message-ID: <4f53e46d.e96b340a.3965.ffffc0e8@mx.google.com>

Hi Vejas,

Wow!!! Great question! Honestly, I simply can't see your aid's 
reasoning in getting mad at you for finding your own way, while 
at the same time he gets equally mad at you for needing lots of 
help to get back on the right path.  It seems like a real 
double-standard to me! I would ask this guy 2 questions: (1) "Why 
do you get mad at me when I find my way on my own after getting 
lost, using the very skills which it is your job to help me 
learn?" and (2) "With all due respect, what is your solution? 
What would you rather have me do when I get lost, or do you just 
want me never to get lost?"

I think back to a seminar for parents and students which the 
Maryland Organization of Parents of Blind Children (MDPOBC) held 
at our state convention here in Maryland about 3 or 4 years ago.  
Dr.  Maurer was one of the speakers at that seminar, and one of 
the topics he covered was getting lost.  His main message was 
"It's OK to get lost." Everybody gets lost sometimes.  That 
includes even the best blind travellers.  So if your aid joined a 
list like Blind Talk, he could probably get plenty of stories 
from experienced blind adults who are also confident travellers 
about getting lost and what they did to find their way back.  
This includes asking sighted people for information! Note: I say 
"information" instead of "help" because I want to emphasize that 
most of the time, all you need from a sighted person is 
information (in verbal form) as to your location and some 
directions to get you back where you need to go.  Now if you're 
really lost and maybe in an unsafe situation, your only option 
might be sighted guide for the time being.  But I have found that 
in the vast majority of situations in which I have gotten lost 
and needed a sighted person to help me figure it out, all I 
needed was some verbal information.  I would ask your aid if he, 
as a sighted person, has ever gotten lost; driving, walking, or 
whatever.  If he's like the average sighted person, he probably 
has! Why? Because he
was in an unfamiliar area, which, even while using all the 
relevant skills he knew to get out of that position of being 
lost, he still was having trouble figuring out how to get out of 
that position (which happens to all sighted people,) and got 
lost.  So I really can't see why he would get mad at you for 
having to do the same thing.  By the way, I don't think it is not 
being independent, in any way shape or form, when you ask a 
sighted person for directions when you're lost! Everybody, blind 
and sighted alike, gets lost sometimes, and that's OK.  Sometimes 
you need to ask someone for information to help you get on the 
right track, and sometimes you can figure it out on your own.  I 
think it is a compliment to you when you solve a travel problem 
(for example, getting lost) on your own, as that says that you 
know the important travel skills you need to know to get out of 
the pickle of getting lost.

In my opinion, if you get lost, it's OK; it happens to everybody.  
If you need to ask for information from a sighted person to help 
you reorient, that's OK, too.  If you can figure it out on your 
own, that's even better! You asked if we thought reorienting 
after getting lost and getting to your destination safely was a 
"big deal." In my opinion, yes, it is a big deal; in a good way.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

----- Original Message -----
From: vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 17:33:36 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about getting lost

Hi,
I am doing a pretty good job navigating my high-school campus.  I
hardly ever get lost, but I used to more often when I began.
I had a question: is it a big deal when you get lost, but find
your way COMPLETELY on your own?
I'm emphasizing this because my aide used to always get mad at me
when I got lost, even if I found my way using my skills.  One
time he got upset because I was checking a room number on a door,
but I needed to know what the room number was in order to get
where I was going.  He treats getting lost and finding my own way
just as badly as getting lost and needing lots of help.  Is this
right?
Vejas

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m%40gmail.com


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 22:00:35 2012
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 17:00:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] punnett squares
In-Reply-To: <4f53e46c.e96b340a.3965.ffffc0e7@mx.google.com>
References: <4f53e46c.e96b340a.3965.ffffc0e7@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJOM=2ZQAdtDE=-CjqHJnKBUspfX_P0ctJv2aEyHjsWZQBz9g@mail.gmail.com>

alot more difficult, heck they should make a pc program for it.

On 3/4/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh yeah! The only problem with that solution, Josh (and BTW, I
> did the same thing in bio last year, that is, my IA,
> instructional assistant, Brailled them for me) is when the
> teacher asks you on an assignment or test or something to
> actually make the punnet square from scratch.  Then you'd have to
> use a Brailler.
>
> Chris
>
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
> nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 20:13:12 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] punnett squares
>
> Or just ask them to braille them out for you, that's what was
> done for
> me.  Took a while for me to get it, but I think the teacher said
> I was
> one of the few that actually got the concept.  Btw, brings back
> memories, Ashley.  :)
>
> On 2/27/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>  Hi,
>  You cannot do punnet squares in a linear form on a braille note.
> Use a
>  brailler; yes do them on graph paper or make the  squares
> tactilly somehow.
>  I used large print.  But same concepts apply.  Punnet squares
> are a grid of
>  squares.  So picture a small table.
>  I believe they are two rows, two colums as  I recall.  You put
> two
>  letters in each square to represent genes.
>  I really hope I explain the representation right as its been
> years since bio
>  for me.
>  If you bring two of the same letters together, its homozygous.
> Note the
>  capital or lowercase letters as I write.
>  Capitals are dominant and lower case are recessive.
>  Example:  bb for recessive brown eyes.
>  Example B B for dominant blue eyes.
>
>  If you have different case of letters, its hetro zygous.
>  You look at the top letter and letter on the side to put the
> letters in the
>  square.  For instance a Large P for dominant gene on top and on
> the side a
>  small O for recessive gene.  So you write P O in the block.
>  Quite hard to explain without showing you.  I suggest you ask
> your teachers
>  for clarification.
>
>  This video might help; maybe if you watch it with a sighted
> person they can
>  help you understand it.
>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8SQAiVWw_s
>
>  Ashley
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: vejas
>  Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 7:08 PM
>  To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Subject: [nabs-l] punnett squares
>
>  Hi,
>  I am really, really, really confused with Punnett squares.  So I
>  have some questions about them.
>
>  First, to make them, should I use a Perkins Brailler? I do all
> my
>  other science work, as well as for my other subjects except math
>  homework, on my Braille-Note Apex.  Would a Perkins Brailler be
>  better?
>  Also, do you hand-make the grids? I have some graph paper from
>  math that I might be able to use, but hand-making them might be
>  easier.
>  So can you please explain how to make a Punnett? Also, it would
>  really help if you could additionally tell me how you learned
>  Punnett squares because I'm really confused.
>  Thank you for your time.  Attached to this email is a copy of
> the
>  questions from the worksheet that I am supposed to do for
>  homework.  Ignore Problem 10 and any others that you don't have
>  to solve.
>  Sincerely,
>
>  Vejas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
> 0earthlink.net
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
> gmail.com
>
>
>
> --
> Sent via gmail.com
> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
> Skype: joshgregory93
>  twitter: JoshG93
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Sent via gmail.com
Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
Skype: joshgregory93
 twitter: JoshG93


From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Mar  4 22:03:47 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2012 16:03:47 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?
In-Reply-To: <CAMJOM=2y_dS8ssB1OxBDEO=RdHJD4a=yN5FxXPxm=PTf5KmiGQ@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <4907018732471762118@unknownmsgid>
	<CABpnAxEPRXLU4c5wveU=ReAeo7xz4CWaYbtK18pNpq4zGVpekQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOsR4Y3oeTtA4-BQJASVnP5-NLWctALsG10qux7cBcvTNw@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000051277639@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<CAMJOM=2y_dS8ssB1OxBDEO=RdHJD4a=yN5FxXPxm=PTf5KmiGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000051283695@mailfront3.g2host.com>

Yes, there are considerable efforts involved in getting the content 
of a paper on the system -- it isn't just a matter of pushing a button.

Dave

At 03:51 PM 3/4/2012, you wrote:
>Uh... $5000? Just for 1 paper?
>
>On 3/4/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> > First, to get a paper on NFB Newsline, your state must be a
> > sponsor.  If they are, they are the ones who will have to make the
> > arrangements.  There is a one time setup fee, and an annual fee as
> > well, for adding a paper, I believe both are $5000.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > At 07:57 AM 3/4/2012, you wrote:
> >>I had a question about Newsline, myself.
> >>How can I get my state paper, (The Arkansas Democrat Gazette,) to them?
> >>Also, (Chris,) what happened to the closing stuff, at the end of your
> >> E-mails?
> >>Thanks, Joshua
> >>
> >>On 3/4/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > Hi Josh,
> >> >
> >> > As far as I know, the toll-free number for Newsline will work in any
> >> > US state, including Hawaii.
> >> >
> >> > Chris
> >> >
> >> > On 3/4/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Hi,
> >> >> I have a friend that would like to use nfb newsline. He lives in
> >> >> Hawaii and is wondering if the toll free number would charge him or
> >> >> not, since Hawaii technically is not part of the continental us. I
> >> >> don't know myself so figured I'd ask.
> >> >> Thanks,
> >> >> Josh
> >> >>
> >> >> Sent From My iPhone
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> >> nabs-l:
> >> >>
> >> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Chris Nusbaum
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> >
>
>
>--
>Sent via gmail.com
>Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>Skype: joshgregory93
>  twitter: JoshG93



From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 22:07:27 2012
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 17:07:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?
In-Reply-To: <auto-000051283695@mailfront3.g2host.com>
References: <4907018732471762118@unknownmsgid>
	<CABpnAxEPRXLU4c5wveU=ReAeo7xz4CWaYbtK18pNpq4zGVpekQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOsR4Y3oeTtA4-BQJASVnP5-NLWctALsG10qux7cBcvTNw@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000051277639@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<CAMJOM=2y_dS8ssB1OxBDEO=RdHJD4a=yN5FxXPxm=PTf5KmiGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000051283695@mailfront3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJOM=0BGKUoM6DuC=JpBs2eJ7mg2YK8eKJOi44paRyTjT8+jQ@mail.gmail.com>

wasn't meaning it like that... and I guess not, scanning and all has
to be done, among other things.

On 3/4/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> Yes, there are considerable efforts involved in getting the content
> of a paper on the system -- it isn't just a matter of pushing a button.
>
> Dave
>
> At 03:51 PM 3/4/2012, you wrote:
>>Uh... $5000? Just for 1 paper?
>>
>>On 3/4/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>> > First, to get a paper on NFB Newsline, your state must be a
>> > sponsor.  If they are, they are the ones who will have to make the
>> > arrangements.  There is a one time setup fee, and an annual fee as
>> > well, for adding a paper, I believe both are $5000.
>> >
>> > Dave
>> >
>> > At 07:57 AM 3/4/2012, you wrote:
>> >>I had a question about Newsline, myself.
>> >>How can I get my state paper, (The Arkansas Democrat Gazette,) to them?
>> >>Also, (Chris,) what happened to the closing stuff, at the end of your
>> >> E-mails?
>> >>Thanks, Joshua
>> >>
>> >>On 3/4/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Hi Josh,
>> >> >
>> >> > As far as I know, the toll-free number for Newsline will work in any
>> >> > US state, including Hawaii.
>> >> >
>> >> > Chris
>> >> >
>> >> > On 3/4/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> Hi,
>> >> >> I have a friend that would like to use nfb newsline. He lives in
>> >> >> Hawaii and is wondering if the toll free number would charge him or
>> >> >> not, since Hawaii technically is not part of the continental us. I
>> >> >> don't know myself so figured I'd ask.
>> >> >> Thanks,
>> >> >> Josh
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Sent From My iPhone
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> nabs-l:
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Chris Nusbaum
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>> >
>>
>>
>>--
>>Sent via gmail.com
>>Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>Skype: joshgregory93
>>  twitter: JoshG93
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Sent via gmail.com
Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
Skype: joshgregory93
 twitter: JoshG93


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Mar  4 22:22:50 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 17:22:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?
In-Reply-To: <CAMJOM=2y_dS8ssB1OxBDEO=RdHJD4a=yN5FxXPxm=PTf5KmiGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4907018732471762118@unknownmsgid><CABpnAxEPRXLU4c5wveU=ReAeo7xz4CWaYbtK18pNpq4zGVpekQ@mail.gmail.com><CAO83KOsR4Y3oeTtA4-BQJASVnP5-NLWctALsG10qux7cBcvTNw@mail.gmail.com><auto-000051277639@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<CAMJOM=2y_dS8ssB1OxBDEO=RdHJD4a=yN5FxXPxm=PTf5KmiGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <28C3E305219D4705924663FD0114E653@OwnerPC>

Yes, papers are expensive and they need to make a profit. By putting it on 
newsline, they give it free to many subscribers; the money comes from 
somewhere; plus the money to keep it running on newsline.

-----Original Message----- 
From: josh gregory
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 4:51 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?

Uh... $5000? Just for 1 paper?

On 3/4/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> First, to get a paper on NFB Newsline, your state must be a
> sponsor.  If they are, they are the ones who will have to make the
> arrangements.  There is a one time setup fee, and an annual fee as
> well, for adding a paper, I believe both are $5000.
>
> Dave
>
> At 07:57 AM 3/4/2012, you wrote:
>>I had a question about Newsline, myself.
>>How can I get my state paper, (The Arkansas Democrat Gazette,) to them?
>>Also, (Chris,) what happened to the closing stuff, at the end of your
>> E-mails?
>>Thanks, Joshua
>>
>>On 3/4/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi Josh,
>> >
>> > As far as I know, the toll-free number for Newsline will work in any
>> > US state, including Hawaii.
>> >
>> > Chris
>> >
>> > On 3/4/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Hi,
>> >> I have a friend that would like to use nfb newsline. He lives in
>> >> Hawaii and is wondering if the toll free number would charge him or
>> >> not, since Hawaii technically is not part of the continental us. I
>> >> don't know myself so figured I'd ask.
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Josh
>> >>
>> >> Sent From My iPhone
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Chris Nusbaum
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>


-- 
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Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
Skype: joshgregory93
twitter: JoshG93

_______________________________________________
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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sun Mar  4 22:28:48 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 14:28:48 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] punnett squares
References: <4f53e46c.e96b340a.3965.ffffc0e7@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <EF2ED587E2E34849BE5C598E53A951E0@stanford.edu>

Use Excel or a table in Microsoft Word.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] punnett squares


> Oh yeah! The only problem with that solution, Josh (and BTW, I did the 
> same thing in bio last year, that is, my IA, instructional assistant, 
> Brailled them for me) is when the teacher asks you on an assignment or 
> test or something to actually make the punnet square from scratch.  Then 
> you'd have to use a Brailler.
>
> Chris
>
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The real 
> problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists.  If a 
> blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can be 
> reduced to a mere physical nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 20:13:12 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] punnett squares
>
> Or just ask them to braille them out for you, that's what was done for
> me.  Took a while for me to get it, but I think the teacher said I was
> one of the few that actually got the concept.  Btw, brings back
> memories, Ashley.  :)
>
> On 2/27/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> You cannot do punnet squares in a linear form on a braille note.  Use a
> brailler; yes do them on graph paper or make the  squares tactilly 
> somehow.
> I used large print.  But same concepts apply.  Punnet squares are a grid 
> of
> squares.  So picture a small table.
> I believe they are two rows, two colums as  I recall.  You put two
> letters in each square to represent genes.
> I really hope I explain the representation right as its been years since 
> bio
> for me.
> If you bring two of the same letters together, its homozygous.  Note the
> capital or lowercase letters as I write.
> Capitals are dominant and lower case are recessive.
> Example:  bb for recessive brown eyes.
> Example B B for dominant blue eyes.
>
> If you have different case of letters, its hetro zygous.
> You look at the top letter and letter on the side to put the letters in 
> the
> square.  For instance a Large P for dominant gene on top and on the side a
> small O for recessive gene.  So you write P O in the block.
> Quite hard to explain without showing you.  I suggest you ask your 
> teachers
> for clarification.
>
> This video might help; maybe if you watch it with a sighted person they 
> can
> help you understand it.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8SQAiVWw_s
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vejas
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 7:08 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] punnett squares
>
> Hi,
> I am really, really, really confused with Punnett squares.  So I
> have some questions about them.
>
> First, to make them, should I use a Perkins Brailler? I do all my
> other science work, as well as for my other subjects except math
> homework, on my Braille-Note Apex.  Would a Perkins Brailler be
> better?
> Also, do you hand-make the grids? I have some graph paper from
> math that I might be able to use, but hand-making them might be
> easier.
> So can you please explain how to make a Punnett? Also, it would
> really help if you could additionally tell me how you learned
> Punnett squares because I'm really confused.
> Thank you for your time.  Attached to this email is a copy of the
> questions from the worksheet that I am supposed to do for
> homework.  Ignore Problem 10 and any others that you don't have
> to solve.
> Sincerely,
>
> Vejas
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
> 0earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
> gmail.com
>
>
>
> --
> Sent via gmail.com
> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
> Skype: joshgregory93
> twitter: JoshG93
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 22:43:56 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 15:43:56 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] punnett squares
In-Reply-To: <CAMJOM=2ZQAdtDE=-CjqHJnKBUspfX_P0ctJv2aEyHjsWZQBz9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f53e46c.e96b340a.3965.ffffc0e7@mx.google.com>
	<CAMJOM=2ZQAdtDE=-CjqHJnKBUspfX_P0ctJv2aEyHjsWZQBz9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDbC8_iMkJj=OnZEQ8nXc-YZNj1QVRn8RQGVS40b4c8ZA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Vejas,
I took regular and advanced placement bio in high school and several
bio courses in college since I was a bio major. I don't think I ever
once made my own Punnett square on the Brailler. It works for some
people, but it is also a big hassle to make up the physical square.
I'll tell you what I did for solving problems like the ones in your
assignment, and you can decide if this method works for you or not.
Say the problem says to cross two heterozygous plants. Instead of
using capital and lowercase letters, since those are less obvious in
Braille, let's use a for the dominant gene and b for the recessive
gene. So on your Braille Note write:
AB+AB
to represent the two heterozygous plants. Then, to figure out each of
the four possible types of offspring from those two heterozygous
plants, pair one letter from each AB and write those pairs down on
your Braille Note on the next line. So, if you pair the first letter
from each AB, you get AA. If you pair the first letter from the first
AB with the second letter of the second AB, you get AB. If you pair
the second letter of the first AB with the first letter of the second
AB, you get BA. And finally, if you pair the second letter of each AB,
you get BB. So the four possible combinations of letters you get from
crossing two AB plants is:
AA or AB or BA or BB
In the plant height example, a tall plant must have at least one A in
it, and a dwarf plant has two B's. So out of your four pairs of
letters, you can count how many have at least one A or how many have
two B's to determine the probabilities of getting a tall or a dwarf
plant, respectively. You will notice that three out of the four have
at least one A in them, and one out of the four has two B's.
For another example, try crossing a homozygous tall plant with a
heterozygous plant. You have
AA+AB
So your four possible pairs of letters are:
AA, AB, AA, AB
This means all of your offspring will be tall because they will have
at least one A in them.

I know this might be really confusing, but I do think once you figure
out how to write it on the Braille Note and practice with it, you'll
be able to do the problems without all the trouble of making up your
own Brailled Punnett square.
If the problem asks you to make a Punnett square, instead of
physically drawing the square, you can write out the probabilities,
i.e. "25% will be TT [two capital T's]; 50% will be Tt [one uppercase
T, one lowercase t] and 25% will be tt [two lowercase t's]. The point
of that is just to show your teacher that you know how to do the
probabilities.
I do think that even if you don't physically draw out your Punnett
squares, it'd be good for you to take a look at some Brailled Punnett
squares so you will see what they look like, which will help you
understand the concepts.
I hope this is helpful and doesn't make your head hurt too much. If it
does, email me offlist and I can try to clarify.
Best,
Arielle

On 3/4/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> alot more difficult, heck they should make a pc program for it.
>
> On 3/4/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Oh yeah! The only problem with that solution, Josh (and BTW, I
>> did the same thing in bio last year, that is, my IA,
>> instructional assistant, Brailled them for me) is when the
>> teacher asks you on an assignment or test or something to
>> actually make the punnet square from scratch.  Then you'd have to
>> use a Brailler.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>> nuisance."
>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 20:13:12 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] punnett squares
>>
>> Or just ask them to braille them out for you, that's what was
>> done for
>> me.  Took a while for me to get it, but I think the teacher said
>> I was
>> one of the few that actually got the concept.  Btw, brings back
>> memories, Ashley.  :)
>>
>> On 2/27/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>  Hi,
>>  You cannot do punnet squares in a linear form on a braille note.
>> Use a
>>  brailler; yes do them on graph paper or make the  squares
>> tactilly somehow.
>>  I used large print.  But same concepts apply.  Punnet squares
>> are a grid of
>>  squares.  So picture a small table.
>>  I believe they are two rows, two colums as  I recall.  You put
>> two
>>  letters in each square to represent genes.
>>  I really hope I explain the representation right as its been
>> years since bio
>>  for me.
>>  If you bring two of the same letters together, its homozygous.
>> Note the
>>  capital or lowercase letters as I write.
>>  Capitals are dominant and lower case are recessive.
>>  Example:  bb for recessive brown eyes.
>>  Example B B for dominant blue eyes.
>>
>>  If you have different case of letters, its hetro zygous.
>>  You look at the top letter and letter on the side to put the
>> letters in the
>>  square.  For instance a Large P for dominant gene on top and on
>> the side a
>>  small O for recessive gene.  So you write P O in the block.
>>  Quite hard to explain without showing you.  I suggest you ask
>> your teachers
>>  for clarification.
>>
>>  This video might help; maybe if you watch it with a sighted
>> person they can
>>  help you understand it.
>>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8SQAiVWw_s
>>
>>  Ashley
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: vejas
>>  Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 7:08 PM
>>  To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  Subject: [nabs-l] punnett squares
>>
>>  Hi,
>>  I am really, really, really confused with Punnett squares.  So I
>>  have some questions about them.
>>
>>  First, to make them, should I use a Perkins Brailler? I do all
>> my
>>  other science work, as well as for my other subjects except math
>>  homework, on my Braille-Note Apex.  Would a Perkins Brailler be
>>  better?
>>  Also, do you hand-make the grids? I have some graph paper from
>>  math that I might be able to use, but hand-making them might be
>>  easier.
>>  So can you please explain how to make a Punnett? Also, it would
>>  really help if you could additionally tell me how you learned
>>  Punnett squares because I'm really confused.
>>  Thank you for your time.  Attached to this email is a copy of
>> the
>>  questions from the worksheet that I am supposed to do for
>>  homework.  Ignore Problem 10 and any others that you don't have
>>  to solve.
>>  Sincerely,
>>
>>  Vejas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>  nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
>> 0earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>  nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>> gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via gmail.com
>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>> Skype: joshgregory93
>>  twitter: JoshG93
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>> m%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Sent via gmail.com
> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
> Skype: joshgregory93
>  twitter: JoshG93
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 22:46:44 2012
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 14:46:44 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?
In-Reply-To: <CAMJOM=2y_dS8ssB1OxBDEO=RdHJD4a=yN5FxXPxm=PTf5KmiGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4907018732471762118@unknownmsgid><CABpnAxEPRXLU4c5wveU=ReAeo7xz4CWaYbtK18pNpq4zGVpekQ@mail.gmail.com><CAO83KOsR4Y3oeTtA4-BQJASVnP5-NLWctALsG10qux7cBcvTNw@mail.gmail.com><auto-000051277639@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<CAMJOM=2y_dS8ssB1OxBDEO=RdHJD4a=yN5FxXPxm=PTf5KmiGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49DEE7A156094EED9078D1CC96955257@HUMBERTOAVILA>

I know, it is very shocking! Maybe that's why I attempted to request my
local city paper to be added to the NFB Newsline service, but they say they
didn't have enough funding? That explains this well!  "Thank you for your
help, Washington State Department of Service for the blind!" <Smile>

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of josh gregory
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 1:52 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?

Uh... $5000? Just for 1 paper?

On 3/4/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> First, to get a paper on NFB Newsline, your state must be a
> sponsor.  If they are, they are the ones who will have to make the
> arrangements.  There is a one time setup fee, and an annual fee as
> well, for adding a paper, I believe both are $5000.
>
> Dave
>
> At 07:57 AM 3/4/2012, you wrote:
>>I had a question about Newsline, myself.
>>How can I get my state paper, (The Arkansas Democrat Gazette,) to them?
>>Also, (Chris,) what happened to the closing stuff, at the end of your
>> E-mails?
>>Thanks, Joshua
>>
>>On 3/4/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi Josh,
>> >
>> > As far as I know, the toll-free number for Newsline will work in any
>> > US state, including Hawaii.
>> >
>> > Chris
>> >
>> > On 3/4/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Hi,
>> >> I have a friend that would like to use nfb newsline. He lives in
>> >> Hawaii and is wondering if the toll free number would charge him or
>> >> not, since Hawaii technically is not part of the continental us. I
>> >> don't know myself so figured I'd ask.
>> >> Thanks,
>> >> Josh
>> >>
>> >> Sent From My iPhone
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> >> nabs-l:
>> >>
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
om
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Chris Nusbaum
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Sent via gmail.com
Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
Skype: joshgregory93
 twitter: JoshG93

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 22:54:23 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2012 17:54:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about getting lost
Message-ID: <4f53f2c4.246b340a.6a96.ffffc7fd@mx.google.com>

Me too! Great point Nicole!

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:54:20 -0800
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about getting lost

Does your aide still follow you around? If so, that needs to 
stop.  By the
time that I was in high school, I only saw my aide at the 
beginning of the
day and the end of the day.  The next time that someone tells you 
not to read
the Braille on a door, tell them not to read the print on it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 5:33 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about getting lost


 Hi,
 I am doing a pretty good job navigating my high-school campus.  
I hardly
 ever get lost, but I used to more often when I began.
 I had a question: is it a big deal when you get lost, but find 
your way
 COMPLETELY on your own?
 I'm emphasizing this because my aide used to always get mad at 
me when I
 got lost, even if I found my way using my skills.  One time he 
got upset
 because I was checking a room number on a door, but I needed to 
know what
 the room number was in order to get where I was going.  He 
treats getting
 lost and finding my own way just as badly as getting lost and 
needing lots
 of help.  Is this right?
 Vejas

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
wavecable.com


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for nabs-l:
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m%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 22:54:25 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2012 17:54:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about getting lost
Message-ID: <4f53f2c6.246b340a.6a96.ffffc800@mx.google.com>

That needs to stop too! The only time I see my aid anymore is at 
the beginning of the day and in classes like science (my TVI 
works with me in math) when we're doing something visual which 
she needs to describe or help me with the tactile graphics.  I do 
admit, tactile graphics are not my strong suit; not even close! 
But I'm getting better with them.  I have been very lucky to have 
an aid who has my back while also wanting me to be independent 
and doing whatever she can to help me become
more independent.  She has gradually stepped back from
assisting me in school, to the point that now her main role is 
that of Braille transcriber.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 19:01:57 -0800
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about getting lost

LOL I really should do that! My aide doesn't follow me around as
much as he watches where I go.
Vejas


 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 18:54:20 -0800
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about getting lost

Does your aide still follow you around? If so, that needs to
stop.  By the
time that I was in high school, I only saw my aide at the
beginning of the
day and the end of the day.  The next time that someone tells you
not to read
the Braille on a door, tell them not to read the print on it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 5:33 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about getting lost


 Hi,
 I am doing a pretty good job navigating my high-school campus.
I hardly
 ever get lost, but I used to more often when I began.
 I had a question: is it a big deal when you get lost, but find
your way
 COMPLETELY on your own?
 I'm emphasizing this because my aide used to always get mad at
me when I
 got lost, even if I found my way using my skills.  One time he
got upset
 because I was checking a room number on a door, but I needed to
know what
 the room number was in order to get where I was going.  He
treats getting
 lost and finding my own way just as badly as getting lost and
needing lots
 of help.  Is this right?
 Vejas

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info for
 nabs-l:

http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
wavecable.com


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for nabs-l:
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mail.com

_______________________________________________
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for nabs-l:
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m%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Mar  4 22:56:39 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2012 17:56:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] fw: [nfbmd] fwd: [blindlaw] immediate: CMS job opportunity
Message-ID: <4f53f34e.aab9340a.4fa3.ffffcb16@mx.google.com>



 ---- Original Message ------
From: AZNOR99 at aol.com
Subject: [Nfbmd] Fwd: [blindlaw] IMMEDIATE: CMS Job Opportunity 
(Schedule A)(OSORA)
Date sent: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 06:59:18 -0500 (EST)





____________________________________
 From: Ronza.Othman at cms.hhs.gov
Reply-to: blindlaw at nfbnet.org
To:  blindlaw at nfbnet.org
CC: pmaurer at nfb.org
Sent: 2/27/2012 4:53:32 P.M.  Eastern Standard Time
Subj: [blindlaw] IMMEDIATE: CMS Job Opportunity  (Schedule A) 
(OSORA)


Please see a job opportunity below with the Centers for  Medicare 
&
Medicaid Services.

Thank you.


*** CMS Job  Opportunity***

The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS),  located in 
Baltimore,
Maryland, is seeking applicants for the positions  identified 
below.  CMS is
seeking to hire a veteran or non-veteran  individual who is 
Schedule A
eligible, meaning that they possess a "severe"  disability.  For 
more
information on the Schedule A hiring authority,  please visit
http://www.opm.gov/disability/PeopleWithDisabilities.asp.
I am  requesting your assistance to provide me with resumes of 
Schedule A
applicants  with the identified skills.  More information on the 
specific job
duties  and the function of the center are below and attached.

The CMS hiring  managers in the Office of Strategic Operations 
and
Regulatory Affairs (OSORA)  are looking for individuals to 
perform the duties of
Policy  Coordinators.  Please note, these positions are primarily 
located in
DC.

Some of the Major Duties are:


*       Reviews, analyzes, develops, and evaluates CMS Medicare,  
Medicaid,
and Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) in one or more of 
the
following functional areas: program policy, state operations, 
contractor
management, systems and claims processing, education and 
outreach,  correspondence,
data and statistical analysis, financial management, and  
legislative
review and relations.



*       Reviews, evaluates, and recommends Medicare, Medicaid or 
CHIP
program policy subject issues to senior staff.


*     Reviews and analyzes operational policies for contractors
responsible for Medicare claims processing activities.


*   Performs education, ombudsman, and outreach  activities for 
the health
care providers, beneficiary, employers/unions, other  stake 
holders, and the
general public regarding Medicare, Medicaid, and CHIP  issues.


*         Reviews and evaluates  CMS Internet design efforts with 
all CMS
operating  components.


*         Prepares all forms  of written correspondence regarding
Medicare/Medicaid CHIP and other program  issues to the public, 
Congressional staff,
industry contacts, and State  representatives.



*         Research  all program issues and develops the 
appropriate
response that includes legal  citation in the law, CMS 
regulations, or policy
issuances.


*   Performs social science, economic, and actuarial  studies or 
reviews of
the impact of proposed policies or changes in operations  on 
current and
future program decisions.



*       Utilizes project management tools to conduct studies, 
track and
analyze progress, or monitor program accomplishments.


*   Reviews and studies CMS program financial payments,  fraud 
and abuse
claims, program integrity reviews, and financial  systems.


*         Reviews and analyzes  the impact of new or revised 
changes to
legislation before the Congress  pertaining to any CMS program.

Some of the Knowledge & Skills  Required bv the Position are:


*          Knowledge of health care financing management 
practices and
organizational  structure to evaluate CMS programs and practices 
and to
recommend improvements  to more efficiently achieve Agency goals.


*       Knowledge of the legislative process in order to monitor 
the
development and progress of legislation affecting the functions 
of the  Agency.


*         Skill in oral and  written communication in order to 
effectively
represent OA in the preparation  of briefings and in attending 
meetings and
conferences.


*   Analytical skill to develop and prepare special  reports and 
analyses
for CMS staff and to plan the completion of complex  special 
projects and
assignments involving coordination across organizational  lines.


Please send any resumes of Schedule A applicants and the  
supporting
certification documentation to Michele Lenkiewicz at
Michele.lenkiewicz at cms.hhs.gov<mailto:Michele.lenkiewicz at cms.hhs.
gov>.   Be sure to include "OSORA" in
the subject line.  The hiring managers are  interested in 
selecting
candidates, as soon as possible.  Resumes must be  received by 
noon Thursday, March
1, 2012.  Resumes will also be retained  in a resume bank for 
possible future
job openings.

Thank you in advance  for your assistance in reaching potential 
applicants
and I look forward to  continuing an ongoing relationship with 
you to
support CMS' efforts to hire,  recruit and retain individuals 
with disabilities.

"OEOCR the model of  quality EEO and Civil Rights Services"

Michele Lenkiewicz
Disability  Employment Program Manager
Affirmative Employment Group
Office of Equal  Opportunity and Civil Rights (OEOCR)
Centers for Medicare & Medicaid  Services
7111 Security Boulevard, Rm.  B2-11-32
Baltimore, MD   21244-1850
Phone:  410-786-5117
Fax:   410-786-4341
Email:
michele.lenkiewicz at cms.hhs.gov<mailto:michele.lenkiewicz at cms.hhs.
gov


Confidentiality:   The information contained in this electronic 
mail
message and any attachments  is intended only for the official 
use of the
individual or entity to whom it  is addressed and may contain 
legally privileged,
confidential information or  work product.  If the reader of this 
message is
not the intended  recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
use,
dissemination, distribution,  or forwarding of this email message 
is strictly
prohibited.  If you have  received this message in error, please 
notify me by email
reply and delete the  original message from your system.  Thank  
you.



_______________________________________________
blindlaw  mailing  list
blindlaw at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindlaw_nfbnet.org
To  unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
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ol.com


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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Mar  4 23:25:59 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 18:25:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] punnett squares
In-Reply-To: <EF2ED587E2E34849BE5C598E53A951E0@stanford.edu>
References: <4f53e46c.e96b340a.3965.ffffc0e7@mx.google.com>
	<EF2ED587E2E34849BE5C598E53A951E0@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <787792B3A6334C5A9BF3C3B0032EFACE@OwnerPC>

Well, you can use a computer; but I think to get the basic concept and 
spatial layout of the square, use graph paper and write in the letters.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 5:28 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] punnett squares

Use Excel or a table in Microsoft Word.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] punnett squares


> Oh yeah! The only problem with that solution, Josh (and BTW, I did the 
> same thing in bio last year, that is, my IA, instructional assistant, 
> Brailled them for me) is when the teacher asks you on an assignment or 
> test or something to actually make the punnet square from scratch.  Then 
> you'd have to use a Brailler.
>
> Chris
>
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The real 
> problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists.  If a 
> blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can be 
> reduced to a mere physical nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 20:13:12 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] punnett squares
>
> Or just ask them to braille them out for you, that's what was done for
> me.  Took a while for me to get it, but I think the teacher said I was
> one of the few that actually got the concept.  Btw, brings back
> memories, Ashley.  :)
>
> On 2/27/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> You cannot do punnet squares in a linear form on a braille note.  Use a
> brailler; yes do them on graph paper or make the  squares tactilly 
> somehow.
> I used large print.  But same concepts apply.  Punnet squares are a grid 
> of
> squares.  So picture a small table.
> I believe they are two rows, two colums as  I recall.  You put two
> letters in each square to represent genes.
> I really hope I explain the representation right as its been years since 
> bio
> for me.
> If you bring two of the same letters together, its homozygous.  Note the
> capital or lowercase letters as I write.
> Capitals are dominant and lower case are recessive.
> Example:  bb for recessive brown eyes.
> Example B B for dominant blue eyes.
>
> If you have different case of letters, its hetro zygous.
> You look at the top letter and letter on the side to put the letters in 
> the
> square.  For instance a Large P for dominant gene on top and on the side a
> small O for recessive gene.  So you write P O in the block.
> Quite hard to explain without showing you.  I suggest you ask your 
> teachers
> for clarification.
>
> This video might help; maybe if you watch it with a sighted person they 
> can
> help you understand it.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8SQAiVWw_s
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vejas
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 7:08 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] punnett squares
>
> Hi,
> I am really, really, really confused with Punnett squares.  So I
> have some questions about them.
>
> First, to make them, should I use a Perkins Brailler? I do all my
> other science work, as well as for my other subjects except math
> homework, on my Braille-Note Apex.  Would a Perkins Brailler be
> better?
> Also, do you hand-make the grids? I have some graph paper from
> math that I might be able to use, but hand-making them might be
> easier.
> So can you please explain how to make a Punnett? Also, it would
> really help if you could additionally tell me how you learned
> Punnett squares because I'm really confused.
> Thank you for your time.  Attached to this email is a copy of the
> questions from the worksheet that I am supposed to do for
> homework.  Ignore Problem 10 and any others that you don't have
> to solve.
> Sincerely,
>
> Vejas
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
> 0earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
> gmail.com
>
>
>
> --
> Sent via gmail.com
> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
> Skype: joshgregory93
> twitter: JoshG93
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  5 00:56:37 2012
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 19:56:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?
In-Reply-To: <49DEE7A156094EED9078D1CC96955257@HUMBERTOAVILA>
References: <4907018732471762118@unknownmsgid>
	<CABpnAxEPRXLU4c5wveU=ReAeo7xz4CWaYbtK18pNpq4zGVpekQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOsR4Y3oeTtA4-BQJASVnP5-NLWctALsG10qux7cBcvTNw@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000051277639@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<CAMJOM=2y_dS8ssB1OxBDEO=RdHJD4a=yN5FxXPxm=PTf5KmiGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<49DEE7A156094EED9078D1CC96955257@HUMBERTOAVILA>
Message-ID: <CAMJOM=0HRrqXh9dyubHEx5dRZerGRRMKce=B9iLeQCT22ezQvw@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, shocking is right, lol.

On 3/4/12, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I know, it is very shocking! Maybe that's why I attempted to request my
> local city paper to be added to the NFB Newsline service, but they say they
> didn't have enough funding? That explains this well!  "Thank you for your
> help, Washington State Department of Service for the blind!" <Smile>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of josh gregory
> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 1:52 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?
>
> Uh... $5000? Just for 1 paper?
>
> On 3/4/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>> First, to get a paper on NFB Newsline, your state must be a
>> sponsor.  If they are, they are the ones who will have to make the
>> arrangements.  There is a one time setup fee, and an annual fee as
>> well, for adding a paper, I believe both are $5000.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 07:57 AM 3/4/2012, you wrote:
>>>I had a question about Newsline, myself.
>>>How can I get my state paper, (The Arkansas Democrat Gazette,) to them?
>>>Also, (Chris,) what happened to the closing stuff, at the end of your
>>> E-mails?
>>>Thanks, Joshua
>>>
>>>On 3/4/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > Hi Josh,
>>> >
>>> > As far as I know, the toll-free number for Newsline will work in any
>>> > US state, including Hawaii.
>>> >
>>> > Chris
>>> >
>>> > On 3/4/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> Hi,
>>> >> I have a friend that would like to use nfb newsline. He lives in
>>> >> Hawaii and is wondering if the toll free number would charge him or
>>> >> not, since Hawaii technically is not part of the continental us. I
>>> >> don't know myself so figured I'd ask.
>>> >> Thanks,
>>> >> Josh
>>> >>
>>> >> Sent From My iPhone
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> nabs-l mailing list
>>> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> >> nabs-l:
>>> >>
>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
> om
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Chris Nusbaum
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Sent via gmail.com
> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
> Skype: joshgregory93
>  twitter: JoshG93
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g
> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Sent via gmail.com
Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
Skype: joshgregory93
 twitter: JoshG93


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Mar  5 02:16:58 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 21:16:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] a Skype problem
In-Reply-To: <CAD0KW=ZQuivDMzkXHz=esnCRz-9t+WstJjSkxYB4NPWANFP9NA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABpnAxFjLuVVPO1eimOzcYpSqkO1=LnY033XEgtvVheHwWAyVQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD0KW=ZQuivDMzkXHz=esnCRz-9t+WstJjSkxYB4NPWANFP9NA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABpnAxHmF9d-sTdnaGEgterCA5tkOhtSKUmhAopcDx0Tn0Jp8A@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Lea! I got it to work; I just can't do it while I'm in a call.
BTW, what's your Skype name? Can I add you?

Chris

On 3/4/12, Lea williams <leanicole1988 at gmail.com> wrote:
> hey try to tab down some times you have to tab down a couple of times,
> or listen and see if it says reconnect, if so then press enter.
> I get to the facebook tab by pressing ault V and then F. I also have
> my skype all in one window.
> If you have it the other way, you just press control 3.
> You can also get to the tab if you have it all in one window, not sure
> about the other way, by pressing control 7.
>
> HTH
>
> On 3/3/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I am having a problem with my Skype and Facebook connection. I have
>> recently got Skype connected to Facebook, which is really cool... when
>> it works. However, when I go to my Facebook tab and hit the space bar,
>> it just shows me my live conversations list box. How can I fix this?
>> BTW, I'm using JAWS 12 with the JAWS scripts for Skype. Hope you can
>> help!
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> --
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real
>> problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists. If
>> a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can
>> be reduced to a mere physical nuissence." -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>
>> Visit the I C.A.N. Foundation online at: www.icanfoundation.info for
>> information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
>> impaired children in MD say "I can!"
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leanicole1988%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Lea Williams
>
> Phone;
> 704-732-4470
> Skipe;
> Lea.williams738
> Facebook
> http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
> Twitter
> http://twitter.com/LeaNicole1988
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real
problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists. If
a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can
be reduced to a mere physical nuissence." -- Kenneth Jernigan

Visit the I C.A.N. Foundation online at: www.icanfoundation.info for
information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
impaired children in MD say "I can!"


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  5 02:21:16 2012
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory)
Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 21:21:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] a Skype problem
In-Reply-To: <CABpnAxHmF9d-sTdnaGEgterCA5tkOhtSKUmhAopcDx0Tn0Jp8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABpnAxFjLuVVPO1eimOzcYpSqkO1=LnY033XEgtvVheHwWAyVQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD0KW=ZQuivDMzkXHz=esnCRz-9t+WstJjSkxYB4NPWANFP9NA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABpnAxHmF9d-sTdnaGEgterCA5tkOhtSKUmhAopcDx0Tn0Jp8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJOM=3-kco73M0cV7uaf9tim_HxAjxqXUYJMidAG8By78mDPQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hey what are those commands for nvda?
Thanks, Josh

On 3/4/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks, Lea! I got it to work; I just can't do it while I'm in a call.
> BTW, what's your Skype name? Can I add you?
>
> Chris
>
> On 3/4/12, Lea williams <leanicole1988 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> hey try to tab down some times you have to tab down a couple of times,
>> or listen and see if it says reconnect, if so then press enter.
>> I get to the facebook tab by pressing ault V and then F. I also have
>> my skype all in one window.
>> If you have it the other way, you just press control 3.
>> You can also get to the tab if you have it all in one window, not sure
>> about the other way, by pressing control 7.
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> On 3/3/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> I am having a problem with my Skype and Facebook connection. I have
>>> recently got Skype connected to Facebook, which is really cool... when
>>> it works. However, when I go to my Facebook tab and hit the space bar,
>>> it just shows me my live conversations list box. How can I fix this?
>>> BTW, I'm using JAWS 12 with the JAWS scripts for Skype. Hope you can
>>> help!
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> --
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real
>>> problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists. If
>>> a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can
>>> be reduced to a mere physical nuissence." -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>
>>> Visit the I C.A.N. Foundation online at: www.icanfoundation.info for
>>> information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
>>> impaired children in MD say "I can!"
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leanicole1988%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Lea Williams
>>
>> Phone;
>> 704-732-4470
>> Skipe;
>> Lea.williams738
>> Facebook
>> http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
>> Twitter
>> http://twitter.com/LeaNicole1988
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real
> problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists. If
> a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can
> be reduced to a mere physical nuissence." -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> Visit the I C.A.N. Foundation online at: www.icanfoundation.info for
> information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
> impaired children in MD say "I can!"
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Sent via gmail.com
Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
Skype: joshgregory93
 twitter: JoshG93


From fowlers at syix.com  Mon Mar  5 14:35:20 2012
From: fowlers at syix.com (Angela Fowler)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 06:35:20 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Chemistry camp application deadline fast approaching.
Message-ID: <72CF5EA2C1F3493FA4FE48B9E176FA6E@AngelaPC>

 


  _____  

Announcing the 2012 California Chemistry Camp for Blind and Visually
Impaired High School Students!
 

 


Would you like to learn how blind people tackle the very visual subject of
organic chemistry successfully? Do you have a general love for science? Do
you want to learn how you can do chemistry as a blind person just as
successfully as your sighted peers? Do you want to apply the chemistry you
learned to food such as olive oil? Are you interested in how blind
professionals use science in their careers every day? Then the 2012
California Chemistry Camp is for you!

 
 
To read more about the camp and apply today online, visit: 
www.sixdots.org
 
The application will be open until at least March 20, 2012.
Once you apply, we will review all applications and let each applicant know
whether he or she has been accepted. 
We will provide travel to and from the camp. 
Thank you for your interest and we look forward to seeing you this May at
Enchanted Hills Camp! 
 
Best regards,
-- Henry (Hoby) Wedler
Chemistry Camp Coordinator
 

From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net  Mon Mar  5 18:14:32 2012
From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Hai Nguyen Ly)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 13:14:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Nokia is looking for student interns
Message-ID: <33971535-2E9C-47F3-99AE-99AB823E5AB9@sbcglobal.net>


http://jobs.nokia.com/job/Itasca-Trainee-6-Job-IL-60143/1572753/

Itasca Trainee 6 Job - IL, 60143

Trainee 6-SWA0000004V

Description

Intern Position at Nokia (Itasca, IL)

Nokia is seeking software engineering interns to work on a web platform for the Nokia Browser Services organization impacting future Nokia products. You will perform design, development and implementation of our web browser environments for Nokia mobile devices. Your work will be central to Nokia's objective to connect the next billion to the web via handsets worldwide.

You will work with a team focused on innovation team to design, implement, and test novel solutions to complex problems in the rapidly evolving mobile industry. This role will require understanding an existing code base and leverage external web services from other Nokia divisions as well as 3rd party services. Creative thinking, technical flexibility and a passion for cutting edge web technologies are a must.

Responsibilities:

- Working in a prototype creation project with design, implementation and integration responsibilities

- Collaborating with software developers and design engineers to quickly deliver prototypes
Work with internal and external APIs

Qualifications

Qualifications:

- Must be enrolled in current accredited graduate or undergraduate program within Computer Science or related field

- Working knowledge of web technologies HTML/JavaScript/CSS/XML

- Experience developing a web service with one or more of the following: Apache, Tomcat, PHP, JSP, Ruby on Rails, or a similar equivalent.

- Working knowledge of Unix operating systems

- Experience with mobile phone environments and application development a plus

- Academic experience with Java and other object oriented design languages

- Proven ability to work within and extend current technology

- Strong team player as well as ability to work independently

Desirable:
Good graphical skills, Adobe Photoshop experience a plus

Job: Research & Development
Primary Location: US-Itasca
Organization:Mobile Phones
Schedule: Part-time
Job Level: Entry Level
Job Type: Internship
Employee Status: Regular

Ongoing

Contact Name - External

Greg Bostwick

Contact Email - External

ext-greg.bostwick at nokia.com

Nearest Major Market: Chicago 
Job Segments: Application Developer, Computer Science, Creative, Developer, Engineer, Engineering, Entry Level, Graphic Design, Intern, Java, R&D, R&D Engineer, Research, Software Engineer, Technology, Telecom, Telecommunications, Test Engineer, Testing, Trainee, Unix, Web Design, Wireless, XML






From marrie12 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  5 19:36:58 2012
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 11:36:58 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] this week's tcjwb on WICS Radio America
Message-ID: <B6523AC2-AE82-4170-A118-64AE75EAF92C@gmail.com>

Hello all. Today we will be hearing a cello concerto, a mystery Bach Oregon concerto and more.  You will find out why  the organ concerto is a mystery. Mewhahahahahaa.

If you feel yoga re energetic and can maintain that for 2 to 4 hours fill out a test form. We are in red of content from talk shows covering today's current events in the world to music formats to religion shows of all kinds. We You also must be professional as if you are on a terrestrial radio station and millions are listening. So fill out a test form and we will do our best to schedule a test for you.

Take care.

Info is below. 

Place: Http://Listen.Ultrastreams.Us:8022/Stream.M3u
time: Monday from 9-11 pm eastern, 8-10 pm central, 7-9 mountain, and 6-8 pm pacific

contact info
show twitter: Http://Twitter.Com/tcjwb
station twitter: Http://Twitter.Com/wicsradio. 

If you need to contact me off air  contact me here.
http://wics.cc/contact
or here.
Http://Twitter.Com/marrie1
see you there.


From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com  Mon Mar  5 21:53:47 2012
From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 16:53:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs accessibility
Message-ID: <CA+6VNgMpo8wb+1JgGfBv10Ai5eK+fRziKC6nqNUwQ1wh3ajtgg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I wrote to the list to inquire about your experiences of using Google
Docs with JAWS a while ago, and the consensus at the time was that the
service is largely inaccessible. I have been able to get around this
problem by using Dropbox on certain occasions, but people by and large
prefer to use Google Docs and I often have to ask for edits to be
added on my behalf or for the latest version of the document to be
emailed to me. However, I recently came across
www.google.com/accessibility, which claims that many of the Google
products we typically consider inaccessible, such as Docs and
Calendar, are compatible with JAWS 12 or newer. In response to this
seemingly encouraging announcement, I gave Google Docs another try,
but when I opened any shared spreadsheet or document JAWS says
"Application Mode On" and does not read anything else. Pressing
Control plus Slash brought up a list of keyboard navigation shortcuts
mentioned in the accessibility page above, but none of those works.

I'm somewhat baffled by this situation since I'm using the latest
version of JAWS and Internet Explorer. Am I missing something, or is
Google making inaccurate claims about the accessibility of their
products? Has anyone here had any success with using Google Docs? Any
thoughts would be much appreciated!

Katie


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Mar  5 22:24:22 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 17:24:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs accessibility
In-Reply-To: <CA+6VNgMpo8wb+1JgGfBv10Ai5eK+fRziKC6nqNUwQ1wh3ajtgg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+6VNgMpo8wb+1JgGfBv10Ai5eK+fRziKC6nqNUwQ1wh3ajtgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8C142003D054466B9ADD60AF18AE2442@OwnerPC>

yeah, how misleading to say its accessible and then it is not.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Katie Wang
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 4:53 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs accessibility

Hi all,

I wrote to the list to inquire about your experiences of using Google
Docs with JAWS a while ago, and the consensus at the time was that the
service is largely inaccessible. I have been able to get around this
problem by using Dropbox on certain occasions, but people by and large
prefer to use Google Docs and I often have to ask for edits to be
added on my behalf or for the latest version of the document to be
emailed to me. However, I recently came across
www.google.com/accessibility, which claims that many of the Google
products we typically consider inaccessible, such as Docs and
Calendar, are compatible with JAWS 12 or newer. In response to this
seemingly encouraging announcement, I gave Google Docs another try,
but when I opened any shared spreadsheet or document JAWS says
"Application Mode On" and does not read anything else. Pressing
Control plus Slash brought up a list of keyboard navigation shortcuts
mentioned in the accessibility page above, but none of those works.

I'm somewhat baffled by this situation since I'm using the latest
version of JAWS and Internet Explorer. Am I missing something, or is
Google making inaccurate claims about the accessibility of their
products? Has anyone here had any success with using Google Docs? Any
thoughts would be much appreciated!

Katie

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  6 04:14:49 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 21:14:49 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs accessibility
In-Reply-To: <8C142003D054466B9ADD60AF18AE2442@OwnerPC>
References: <CA+6VNgMpo8wb+1JgGfBv10Ai5eK+fRziKC6nqNUwQ1wh3ajtgg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C142003D054466B9ADD60AF18AE2442@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDGd5GJH0u2j_DP7+gJd8i8DG-9uvSoJXXkCAJMwEtgng@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Katie and all,
I haven't tried Google Docs recently, but someone told me that it is
supposedly accessible with Firefox but not with Internet Explorer.
Have you tried it with Firefox?
Arielle

On 3/5/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> yeah, how misleading to say its accessible and then it is not.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Katie Wang
> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 4:53 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs accessibility
>
> Hi all,
>
> I wrote to the list to inquire about your experiences of using Google
> Docs with JAWS a while ago, and the consensus at the time was that the
> service is largely inaccessible. I have been able to get around this
> problem by using Dropbox on certain occasions, but people by and large
> prefer to use Google Docs and I often have to ask for edits to be
> added on my behalf or for the latest version of the document to be
> emailed to me. However, I recently came across
> www.google.com/accessibility, which claims that many of the Google
> products we typically consider inaccessible, such as Docs and
> Calendar, are compatible with JAWS 12 or newer. In response to this
> seemingly encouraging announcement, I gave Google Docs another try,
> but when I opened any shared spreadsheet or document JAWS says
> "Application Mode On" and does not read anything else. Pressing
> Control plus Slash brought up a list of keyboard navigation shortcuts
> mentioned in the accessibility page above, but none of those works.
>
> I'm somewhat baffled by this situation since I'm using the latest
> version of JAWS and Internet Explorer. Am I missing something, or is
> Google making inaccurate claims about the accessibility of their
> products? Has anyone here had any success with using Google Docs? Any
> thoughts would be much appreciated!
>
> Katie
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From jty727 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  6 05:32:31 2012
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 00:32:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi to All!

Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!

Thanks in advance:)

Justin


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Mar  6 05:35:59 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 00:35:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>

which cell carrier are you using?
The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not sure 
though if the calendar talks.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Justin Young
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender

Hi to All!

Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!

Thanks in advance:)

Justin

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From jty727 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  6 05:44:54 2012
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 00:44:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>

This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
there are any suggestions out there.

On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> which cell carrier are you using?
> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not sure
> though if the calendar talks.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Justin Young
> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>
> Hi to All!
>
> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>
> Thanks in advance:)
>
> Justin
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Mar  6 05:46:55 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 00:46:55 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] mall travel and shops
Message-ID: <163B22FF76B74D61A4636A66BB4F6A38@OwnerPC>

Hi all,

So I figured malls are a fun place to be with all sorts of things to buy and eat and you can practice travel skills there in a safe closed environment.

What tips do you have for mall travel? How do you find the stores and escalators? Are escalators generally in a  middle part of the mall? That seems to be the case where I’ve been and the up escalator is opposite the down one.

I know you can just ask a random person where store x is, but that is limiting as you do not get the layout and if you go to only store x you might miss stores y and z since you were traveling to only store x. Hope that makes sense; like if I went to Bloomingdales only and did not know the other major stores I passed, I would miss say CVS and Foot locker. 

I cannot always read signs. Once I find the store, do you remember its location by associating a landmark to it? How do you identify it other than asking someone? Some stores have smells and I’ve used that as a clue; although it can be misleading as major department stores have different smells. For instance, I can smell shoes, but this might be just a shoe store or a shoe department of a larger store. It can mean two things. Another idea I thought of is using the texture change of each store. Is that a reliable clue or are stores so alike you cannot rely on it? I was thinking you could say stores A B C have a wood surface with a carpet at the entrance. Then stores D E F have smooth tile and small squares making up the tile.

Have you found it helpful to get a map and ask a sighted person to describe and/or make a tactile picture of it for you?

And, how do you know when one store ends and the next begins? They have multiple entrances sometimes. thanks!

Ashley

From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Tue Mar  6 06:39:25 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 22:39:25 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] mall travel and shops
References: <163B22FF76B74D61A4636A66BB4F6A38@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <236141BF90C649F39572070233B44C0E@stanford.edu>

JMHO, it is best to know the layout of the mall before you go. I find 
tactile maps helpful. I usually plan what stores I want to go to. I then try 
to go in that general direction and I ask for help if needed. Using floor 
texture is not reliable, especially if you are using a guide dog and not a 
cane.
If you don't benefit from tactile maps, you could ask someone to write down 
the locations of stores. For example, if you come in door X and turn in 
direction Y, the first store on your right is A, the next is B, and so on 
with details like A has N number of entrances.
One thing that you can sometimes use is music. Some stores play really 
distinctive music, but that does not always work, especially if there is a 
lot of noise, and it certainly does not work around Christmas because *all* 
of them are playing Christmas music.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 9:46 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] mall travel and shops


> Hi all,
>
> So I figured malls are a fun place to be with all sorts of things to buy 
> and eat and you can practice travel skills there in a safe closed 
> environment.
>
> What tips do you have for mall travel? How do you find the stores and 
> escalators? Are escalators generally in a  middle part of the mall? That 
> seems to be the case where I’ve been and the up escalator is opposite the 
> down one.
>
> I know you can just ask a random person where store x is, but that is 
> limiting as you do not get the layout and if you go to only store x you 
> might miss stores y and z since you were traveling to only store x. Hope 
> that makes sense; like if I went to Bloomingdales only and did not know 
> the other major stores I passed, I would miss say CVS and Foot locker.
>
> I cannot always read signs. Once I find the store, do you remember its 
> location by associating a landmark to it? How do you identify it other 
> than asking someone? Some stores have smells and I’ve used that as a clue; 
> although it can be misleading as major department stores have different 
> smells. For instance, I can smell shoes, but this might be just a shoe 
> store or a shoe department of a larger store. It can mean two things. 
> Another idea I thought of is using the texture change of each store. Is 
> that a reliable clue or are stores so alike you cannot rely on it? I was 
> thinking you could say stores A B C have a wood surface with a carpet at 
> the entrance. Then stores D E F have smooth tile and small squares making 
> up the tile.
>
> Have you found it helpful to get a map and ask a sighted person to 
> describe and/or make a tactile picture of it for you?
>
> And, how do you know when one store ends and the next begins? They have 
> multiple entrances sometimes. thanks!
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
> 



From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  6 18:58:07 2012
From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 13:58:07 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs accessibility
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJDGd5GJH0u2j_DP7+gJd8i8DG-9uvSoJXXkCAJMwEtgng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+6VNgMpo8wb+1JgGfBv10Ai5eK+fRziKC6nqNUwQ1wh3ajtgg@mail.gmail.com>
	<8C142003D054466B9ADD60AF18AE2442@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJDGd5GJH0u2j_DP7+gJd8i8DG-9uvSoJXXkCAJMwEtgng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+6VNgM9p8uWN3MOkS73iOdoU639CSb4uSQAJtssUj1gWp0L4g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Arielle,
That's a good point. I actually have never used Firefox before but may
try it with Google Docs at some point. It is annoying that the
accessibility feature does not work in all browsers, but at least
Google has taken a step in the right direction. Thanks for the tip!
Katie


On 3/5/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Katie and all,
> I haven't tried Google Docs recently, but someone told me that it is
> supposedly accessible with Firefox but not with Internet Explorer.
> Have you tried it with Firefox?
> Arielle
>
> On 3/5/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> yeah, how misleading to say its accessible and then it is not.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Katie Wang
>> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 4:53 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs accessibility
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I wrote to the list to inquire about your experiences of using Google
>> Docs with JAWS a while ago, and the consensus at the time was that the
>> service is largely inaccessible. I have been able to get around this
>> problem by using Dropbox on certain occasions, but people by and large
>> prefer to use Google Docs and I often have to ask for edits to be
>> added on my behalf or for the latest version of the document to be
>> emailed to me. However, I recently came across
>> www.google.com/accessibility, which claims that many of the Google
>> products we typically consider inaccessible, such as Docs and
>> Calendar, are compatible with JAWS 12 or newer. In response to this
>> seemingly encouraging announcement, I gave Google Docs another try,
>> but when I opened any shared spreadsheet or document JAWS says
>> "Application Mode On" and does not read anything else. Pressing
>> Control plus Slash brought up a list of keyboard navigation shortcuts
>> mentioned in the accessibility page above, but none of those works.
>>
>> I'm somewhat baffled by this situation since I'm using the latest
>> version of JAWS and Internet Explorer. Am I missing something, or is
>> Google making inaccurate claims about the accessibility of their
>> products? Has anyone here had any success with using Google Docs? Any
>> thoughts would be much appreciated!
>>
>> Katie
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>


From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  6 19:05:54 2012
From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 14:05:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Justin,
Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
Katie


On 3/6/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
> there are any suggestions out there.
>
> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> which cell carrier are you using?
>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not sure
>> though if the calendar talks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Justin Young
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>
>> Hi to All!
>>
>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>
>> Thanks in advance:)
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>


From gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net  Tue Mar  6 19:12:04 2012
From: gymnastdave at sbcglobal.net (Hai Nguyen Ly)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 14:12:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Internships with the White House Initiative on Asian
	Americans and Pacific Islanders
Message-ID: <411B9ABC-08BF-4D53-ABF9-042312499812@sbcglobal.net>


http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/aapi/internships

Internships

Internships with the White House Initiative on Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders

The White House Initiative on Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders in Washington, D.C., offers part-time and full-time internships during spring and fall semesters and full-time internships during the summer.  Part-time applicants who can commit to at least 20 hours a week will be considered during the spring and fall semesters.  Interns at the Initiative are responsible for assisting the staff in researching a wide range of Asian American and Pacific Islander (AAPI) issues, including education, health, sustainable neighborhoods, economic development, civil rights, and labor and employment.  In addition, interns will help write policy memos and proposals, coordinate events, and conduct outreach to national and local AAPI organizations, elected officials, and ethnic media outlets.

The Initiative is responsible for the implementation of the President's Executive Order 13515 dated October 14, 2009.  Its purpose is to develop, monitor, and coordinate executive branch efforts to improve the quality of life of AAPIs through increased participation in federal programs.  The Initiative is housed at the Department of Education but its scope is government-wide.

Applicants for the Intern positions should be graduate students or undergraduates who are enrolled at least half-time.  Ideally, the candidate will already be familiar with AAPI issues and have outstanding research, writing, and computer skills. 

If you are interested in applying, please send a statement that describes (1) one issue that affects the AAPI community, (2) a strategy that you would implement at the Initiative to address that issue, and (3) the organizations and/or federal agencies with whom you would collaborate. 

The statement should be submitted to whitehouseaapi at ed.gov and should be no more than one page, single-spaced.  Resumes, transcripts, and cover letters will not be considered at this time, so please limit your submission to the statement.

If you are selected for an interview, you will be notified within two weeks following the deadline.

 Deadlines:

October 15 for Spring session (Jan-May)
March 15 for Summer session (June-Aug)
May 15 for  Fall session (Aug-Dec)
All applicants must be:

At least 18 years of age
Enrolled in a degree-seeking program at an accredited academic institution
Authorized to work in the United States
Note: If the applicant is not authorized to work in the United States, the applicant may still be eligible for an internship if (1) the applicant holds a valid student visa (F-1 or M-1), (2) the applicant is enrolled in school in the United States, and (3) the applicant’s school provides documentation that the internship is required for educational purposes. 

All internship positions at the Initiative are unpaid.  The United States Government does not discriminate in employment on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, political affiliation, sexual orientation, gender identity, marital status, disability and genetic information, age, membership in an employee organization, or other non-merit factor.

White House Internship Program

This hands-on program is designed to mentor and cultivate today’s young leaders, strengthen their understanding of the Executive Office and prepare them for future public service opportunities. Interns are placed in various offices throughout the White House, and are given varying tasks, such as conducting research, managing incoming inquiries, attending meetings, and writing memos.

Agency Internships

Please visit the links below to access internship opportunities at the individual agencies that comprise the Initiative’s Interagency Working Group.  For more internship/employment information for students and/or recent graduates, be sure to visit http://www.usajobs.gov/studentjobs or reference this comprehensive directory of federal internships.

Department of Labor
Department of State
Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
Corporation for National and Community Service
Department of Agriculture
Department of Commerce
Department of Defense
Department of Education
Department of Energy
Department of Health and Human Services
Department of Homeland Security
Department of Housing and Urban Development
Department of the Interior
Department of Justice
Department of Transportation
Department of the Treasury
Department of Veterans Affairs
Environmental Protection Agency
Equal Employment Opportunity Commission
Federal Communications Commission
National Aeronautics and Space Administration
Office of Management and Budget
Social Security Administration
United States Trade Representative
Presidential Management Fellowship (PMF)

The PMF Program is a flagship leadership development program for advanced degree candidates interested in federal government work. The Program attracts and selects the best candidates through a rigorous application and selection process – all with the intention of developing a cadre of potential government leaders.

 






From leanicole1988 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  6 19:40:45 2012
From: leanicole1988 at gmail.com (Lea williams)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 14:40:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD0KW=b0vyP6MSoXsE1JnBqgFbH28w2Ly6XTsM=jzu5h3BRYmw@mail.gmail.com>

Hey
I have an Iphone and found it hard for the first two weeks of using it
but once you play around with it for that long you start to get the
hang of it. I have my typing on a touch type mode, so ifI touch a
button then let go on the keyboard, it will put it in. But if I do not
know wear the carictor is I am looking for and just missed it by a
key, I just slide my finger around without lifting it and until I find
it then lift up and it will put it in. but with the double tapping way
you have to find the button and then double tap it.

I like the calendar on my phone because it is so easy to work with but
I understand you would rather use something else.

I did once use a HTZ  O-zone phone with talks. I did not like the
phone because the talks kept freezing up but that calendar worked. not
sure if it froze up because of the phone or what.

On 3/6/12, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Justin,
> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
> Katie
>
>
> On 3/6/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>
>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not sure
>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Justin Young
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>
>>> Hi to All!
>>>
>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leanicole1988%40gmail.com
>


-- 

Lea Williams

Phone;
704-732-4470
Skipe;
Lea.williams738
Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
Twitter
http://twitter.com/LeaNicole1988


From ignasicambra at gmail.com  Tue Mar  6 20:29:16 2012
From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 15:29:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <CAD0KW=b0vyP6MSoXsE1JnBqgFbH28w2Ly6XTsM=jzu5h3BRYmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD0KW=b0vyP6MSoXsE1JnBqgFbH28w2Ly6XTsM=jzu5h3BRYmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-2256620854189161765@unknownmsgid>

aN Iphone is definitely your best choice. Just get used to the touch
screen. It's really not hard to use it. If you think about it, it
would be a lot harder for someone used to a touch screen to switch to
menus and buttons than for you to switch to a touch interface. It's
just natural, and at least for me it works very well. As for the
typing issue I sent a message to this list a few weeks ago about an
iPhone case that has a built-in keybord. It might really be useful for
some people...

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 6, 2012, at 2:43 PM, Lea williams <leanicole1988 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey
> I have an Iphone and found it hard for the first two weeks of using it
> but once you play around with it for that long you start to get the
> hang of it. I have my typing on a touch type mode, so ifI touch a
> button then let go on the keyboard, it will put it in. But if I do not
> know wear the carictor is I am looking for and just missed it by a
> key, I just slide my finger around without lifting it and until I find
> it then lift up and it will put it in. but with the double tapping way
> you have to find the button and then double tap it.
>
> I like the calendar on my phone because it is so easy to work with but
> I understand you would rather use something else.
>
> I did once use a HTZ  O-zone phone with talks. I did not like the
> phone because the talks kept freezing up but that calendar worked. not
> sure if it froze up because of the phone or what.
>
> On 3/6/12, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Justin,
>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>> Katie
>>
>>
>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>
>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not sure
>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>
>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>
>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>
>>>> Justin
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leanicole1988%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Lea Williams
>
> Phone;
> 704-732-4470
> Skipe;
> Lea.williams738
> Facebook
> http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
> Twitter
> http://twitter.com/LeaNicole1988
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  6 20:35:35 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 13:35:35 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <-2256620854189161765@unknownmsgid>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD0KW=b0vyP6MSoXsE1JnBqgFbH28w2Ly6XTsM=jzu5h3BRYmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<-2256620854189161765@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBjmOE06wk+9Te7m-Cc4jpX8jLV-aQ13T+t4dD77GHT5Q@mail.gmail.com>

The Nokia N82 and N86 phones do not have touch screens; I think they
are still being made.
Arielle

On 3/6/12, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
> aN Iphone is definitely your best choice. Just get used to the touch
> screen. It's really not hard to use it. If you think about it, it
> would be a lot harder for someone used to a touch screen to switch to
> menus and buttons than for you to switch to a touch interface. It's
> just natural, and at least for me it works very well. As for the
> typing issue I sent a message to this list a few weeks ago about an
> iPhone case that has a built-in keybord. It might really be useful for
> some people...
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 6, 2012, at 2:43 PM, Lea williams <leanicole1988 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey
>> I have an Iphone and found it hard for the first two weeks of using it
>> but once you play around with it for that long you start to get the
>> hang of it. I have my typing on a touch type mode, so ifI touch a
>> button then let go on the keyboard, it will put it in. But if I do not
>> know wear the carictor is I am looking for and just missed it by a
>> key, I just slide my finger around without lifting it and until I find
>> it then lift up and it will put it in. but with the double tapping way
>> you have to find the button and then double tap it.
>>
>> I like the calendar on my phone because it is so easy to work with but
>> I understand you would rather use something else.
>>
>> I did once use a HTZ  O-zone phone with talks. I did not like the
>> phone because the talks kept freezing up but that calendar worked. not
>> sure if it froze up because of the phone or what.
>>
>> On 3/6/12, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Justin,
>>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>>> Katie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not sure
>>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>>
>>>>> Justin
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Lea Williams
>>
>> Phone;
>> 704-732-4470
>> Skipe;
>> Lea.williams738
>> Facebook
>> http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
>> Twitter
>> http://twitter.com/LeaNicole1988
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From alexandera.castillo at gmail.com  Tue Mar  6 20:47:03 2012
From: alexandera.castillo at gmail.com (Alexander Castillo)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 15:47:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Mall travel and shops
Message-ID: <CAE-zYLv7c_ExwWkZnSRMfpbYFP=4UB003c5SeRnWAxr6uD9uAw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley, the one sure way to develop  your mall shopping skills is
do what our sighted counterparts do, and that is familiarize yourself
with one or two places you like. This means you will be able to come
and go as you please, and you can get to know the layout of these
places which will then serve you in figuring out the structure of
other malls in unfamiliar situations. For example, if you can get to a
medium sized mall, go off and do some shopping, and then once you get
to the larger places, you will feel more comfortable.

These are some techniques which I like when going through the mall on my own.

You can start out by “shore-lining” the walls until you come across a
door. Shore-lining is simply following along the edge of a barrier,
keeping a good amount of contact with that barrier, in this case the
wall, until you find what you are looking for.

Once you have done this for a bit, and you are comfortable with this
approach, you can stop shore-lining and now simply stay close to the
wall, and now listen to where each door is located. As mentioned
earlier, this gives you an opportunity to listen for recognizable
music, check for landmarks and so on.

Give yourself a couple of tasks, for example, go and find the food
court, then an empty chair, and then maybe a store you want to do some
shopping in.

Once you are about to exit a store, you can ask one of the clerks in
which direction your next store is located. You can always ask how
many stores from where you are is the door, or is it across the mall?
Talk to people, be friendly. It is good to become familiar with asking
questions in a way which does not portray you as helpless, or lost.
You’re just another shopper asking for directions.

Find the most recognizable landmarks, like a carousel perhaps, or the
food court, or the arcade.  You can often hear escalators, and you can
also ask people in which general direction a store is located.

I think it’s really important to take your time, so plan ahead to
spend a half day or an entire day walking around, shopping, or just
having fun out there. If you can, take a friend along who can also
benefit from the experience.

Have fun, and don’t spend too much,
Alex


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Mar  6 21:50:44 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 16:50:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com><7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC><CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6793C73F22564605866F718F2E660D8C@OwnerPC>

Maybe a tactile overlay would help with the touch screen. I'm old fashioned 
and have a regular phone; it may have a calendar, but if it does it does not 
talk. It only talks when incoming calls come in. I
use another calendar to stay organized. I wish NFB would push for more 
accessible phones. Come on, not everyone wants a smart phone; however, I 
would like access to the on screen menus; I want to know who called 
yesterday in my missed calls list; and I want to read texts. But No do not 
want the bells and whistles of the I phone.
-----Original Message----- 
From: Katie Wang
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 2:05 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender

Hi Justin,
Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
Katie


On 3/6/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
> there are any suggestions out there.
>
> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> which cell carrier are you using?
>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not sure
>> though if the calendar talks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Justin Young
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>
>> Hi to All!
>>
>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>
>> Thanks in advance:)
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>

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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From anjelinac26 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  6 22:57:25 2012
From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 17:57:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calendar
In-Reply-To: <6793C73F22564605866F718F2E660D8C@OwnerPC>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com><7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC><CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com><CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6793C73F22564605866F718F2E660D8C@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <B5F86AECB2BE40F3BB5678CD16D7D596@AnjelinaPC>

Whether good or bad, I think the days of a basic accessible phone for a 
reasonable price are numbered.
Mobile Speak or Talks are an additional investment, especially if you want 
access to the basic features of the phone.
As much as I love my iPhone, I realize it isn't for everyone. Happy phone 
hunting
-----Original Message----- 
From: Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 4:50 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender

Maybe a tactile overlay would help with the touch screen. I'm old fashioned
and have a regular phone; it may have a calendar, but if it does it does not
talk. It only talks when incoming calls come in. I
use another calendar to stay organized. I wish NFB would push for more
accessible phones. Come on, not everyone wants a smart phone; however, I
would like access to the on screen menus; I want to know who called
yesterday in my missed calls list; and I want to read texts. But No do not
want the bells and whistles of the I phone.
-----Original Message----- 
From: Katie Wang
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 2:05 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender

Hi Justin,
Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
Katie


On 3/6/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
> there are any suggestions out there.
>
> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> which cell carrier are you using?
>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not sure
>> though if the calendar talks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Justin Young
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>
>> Hi to All!
>>
>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>
>> Thanks in advance:)
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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Anjelina 



From jty727 at gmail.com  Tue Mar  6 23:25:50 2012
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 18:25:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <6793C73F22564605866F718F2E660D8C@OwnerPC>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6793C73F22564605866F718F2E660D8C@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s7L7h-GtfWcNGSPcKQdNXrbn9yE99RP8CU0=mBGFnKK5w@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks a bunch for all of your feedback.  Who makes the Nokia N82/86?
That may be an optionworth at least looking at.

Thanks again:)

On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Maybe a tactile overlay would help with the touch screen. I'm old fashioned
> and have a regular phone; it may have a calendar, but if it does it does not
> talk. It only talks when incoming calls come in. I
> use another calendar to stay organized. I wish NFB would push for more
> accessible phones. Come on, not everyone wants a smart phone; however, I
> would like access to the on screen menus; I want to know who called
> yesterday in my missed calls list; and I want to read texts. But No do not
> want the bells and whistles of the I phone.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Katie Wang
> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 2:05 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>
> Hi Justin,
> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
> Katie
>
>
> On 3/6/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>
>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not sure
>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Justin Young
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>
>>> Hi to All!
>>>
>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Tue Mar  6 23:27:38 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 15:27:38 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com><7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC><CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com><CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com><CAD0KW=b0vyP6MSoXsE1JnBqgFbH28w2Ly6XTsM=jzu5h3BRYmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<-2256620854189161765@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <3035CE7DB4544E7D818EDD2878913B72@stanford.edu>

Yeah, and you capitalized the N in an instead of the a.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ignasi Cambra" <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender


> aN Iphone is definitely your best choice. Just get used to the touch
> screen. It's really not hard to use it. If you think about it, it
> would be a lot harder for someone used to a touch screen to switch to
> menus and buttons than for you to switch to a touch interface. It's
> just natural, and at least for me it works very well. As for the
> typing issue I sent a message to this list a few weeks ago about an
> iPhone case that has a built-in keybord. It might really be useful for
> some people...
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 6, 2012, at 2:43 PM, Lea williams <leanicole1988 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey
>> I have an Iphone and found it hard for the first two weeks of using it
>> but once you play around with it for that long you start to get the
>> hang of it. I have my typing on a touch type mode, so ifI touch a
>> button then let go on the keyboard, it will put it in. But if I do not
>> know wear the carictor is I am looking for and just missed it by a
>> key, I just slide my finger around without lifting it and until I find
>> it then lift up and it will put it in. but with the double tapping way
>> you have to find the button and then double tap it.
>>
>> I like the calendar on my phone because it is so easy to work with but
>> I understand you would rather use something else.
>>
>> I did once use a HTZ  O-zone phone with talks. I did not like the
>> phone because the talks kept freezing up but that calendar worked. not
>> sure if it froze up because of the phone or what.
>>
>> On 3/6/12, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Justin,
>>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>>> Katie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not 
>>>>> sure
>>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>>
>>>>> Justin
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Lea Williams
>>
>> Phone;
>> 704-732-4470
>> Skipe;
>> Lea.williams738
>> Facebook
>> http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
>> Twitter
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>>
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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Tue Mar  6 23:31:32 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 15:31:32 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Mall travel and shops
References: <CAE-zYLv7c_ExwWkZnSRMfpbYFP=4UB003c5SeRnWAxr6uD9uAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A8E94B09131A4B95B4318C7DE32FC67C@stanford.edu>

Asking people how many doors and door counting don't always work for more 
than 5, maybe 6 or 7, doors. First, especially if it is crowded, it can be 
hard to shoreline all of the time. Second, for more than 2 or 3 doors, most 
sighted people don't memorize what stores are located where by how many 
stores are between them. If you do decide to use door counting, you may want 
to have a friend agree to help you.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alexander Castillo" <alexandera.castillo at gmail.com>
To: "nabs-l" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:47 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Mall travel and shops


Hi Ashley, the one sure way to develop  your mall shopping skills is
do what our sighted counterparts do, and that is familiarize yourself
with one or two places you like. This means you will be able to come
and go as you please, and you can get to know the layout of these
places which will then serve you in figuring out the structure of
other malls in unfamiliar situations. For example, if you can get to a
medium sized mall, go off and do some shopping, and then once you get
to the larger places, you will feel more comfortable.

These are some techniques which I like when going through the mall on my 
own.

You can start out by “shore-lining” the walls until you come across a
door. Shore-lining is simply following along the edge of a barrier,
keeping a good amount of contact with that barrier, in this case the
wall, until you find what you are looking for.

Once you have done this for a bit, and you are comfortable with this
approach, you can stop shore-lining and now simply stay close to the
wall, and now listen to where each door is located. As mentioned
earlier, this gives you an opportunity to listen for recognizable
music, check for landmarks and so on.

Give yourself a couple of tasks, for example, go and find the food
court, then an empty chair, and then maybe a store you want to do some
shopping in.

Once you are about to exit a store, you can ask one of the clerks in
which direction your next store is located. You can always ask how
many stores from where you are is the door, or is it across the mall?
Talk to people, be friendly. It is good to become familiar with asking
questions in a way which does not portray you as helpless, or lost.
You’re just another shopper asking for directions.

Find the most recognizable landmarks, like a carousel perhaps, or the
food court, or the arcade.  You can often hear escalators, and you can
also ask people in which general direction a store is located.

I think it’s really important to take your time, so plan ahead to
spend a half day or an entire day walking around, shopping, or just
having fun out there. If you can, take a friend along who can also
benefit from the experience.

Have fun, and don’t spend too much,
Alex

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From kayla.mattox at cox.net  Tue Mar  6 23:42:00 2012
From: kayla.mattox at cox.net (Kayla Paige)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 18:42:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
Message-ID: <72F843C1-85A6-4412-A634-1D9AD64E1215@cox.net>

Hey, does anyone know if jaws will read text within a PowerPoint slide? If so, how would I read it?

Sent from my iPhone

From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue Mar  6 23:50:41 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 17:50:41 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
In-Reply-To: <72F843C1-85A6-4412-A634-1D9AD64E1215@cox.net>
References: <72F843C1-85A6-4412-A634-1D9AD64E1215@cox.net>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOt4j_9i5AwZkCxMtuEbi9XqfPgRNNx9TYWYFj8qxPbAwA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Kayla.
First of all, welcome to the list!
I've had problems, getting Jaws to read powerpoints.
I don't know why, though.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/6/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
> Hey, does anyone know if jaws will read text within a PowerPoint slide? If
> so, how would I read it?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From kayla.mattox at cox.net  Wed Mar  7 00:05:34 2012
From: kayla.mattox at cox.net (Kayla Paige)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 19:05:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOt4j_9i5AwZkCxMtuEbi9XqfPgRNNx9TYWYFj8qxPbAwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72F843C1-85A6-4412-A634-1D9AD64E1215@cox.net>
	<CAO83KOt4j_9i5AwZkCxMtuEbi9XqfPgRNNx9TYWYFj8qxPbAwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7B7F554A-6EAB-4045-BABD-F2FD12EDCA77@cox.net>

Thanks, very much. What program is best to use if my teacher were to send me a worksheet? Would she use adobe reader or ms word?

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 6, 2012, at 6:50 PM, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:

> Hi, Kayla.
> First of all, welcome to the list!
> I've had problems, getting Jaws to read powerpoints.
> I don't know why, though.
> Blessings, Joshua
> 
> On 3/6/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>> Hey, does anyone know if jaws will read text within a PowerPoint slide? If
>> so, how would I read it?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kayla.mattox%40cox.net


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Wed Mar  7 00:08:47 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 18:08:47 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
In-Reply-To: <7B7F554A-6EAB-4045-BABD-F2FD12EDCA77@cox.net>
References: <72F843C1-85A6-4412-A634-1D9AD64E1215@cox.net>
	<CAO83KOt4j_9i5AwZkCxMtuEbi9XqfPgRNNx9TYWYFj8qxPbAwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<7B7F554A-6EAB-4045-BABD-F2FD12EDCA77@cox.net>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOuWp+DCTui2sNtHXaRd6GAF+BkryPkVtXk+XcrL4BjPgA@mail.gmail.com>

MSWord would be the best option.
I take it, you're in high school?
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/6/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
> Thanks, very much. What program is best to use if my teacher were to send me
> a worksheet? Would she use adobe reader or ms word?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 6, 2012, at 6:50 PM, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Kayla.
>> First of all, welcome to the list!
>> I've had problems, getting Jaws to read powerpoints.
>> I don't know why, though.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/6/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>> Hey, does anyone know if jaws will read text within a PowerPoint slide?
>>> If
>>> so, how would I read it?
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kayla.mattox%40cox.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com  Wed Mar  7 00:30:09 2012
From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 16:30:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
In-Reply-To: <72F843C1-85A6-4412-A634-1D9AD64E1215@cox.net>
Message-ID: <1331080209.60699.YahooMailClassic@web162003.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

The best thing to do would be to save it as a PDF document. If you go to save as, you sould see a option to save it as a pdf.
Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
Hellen Keller


--- On Tue, 3/6/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:

> From: Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net>
> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
> To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Tuesday, March 6, 2012, 5:42 PM
> Hey, does anyone know if jaws will
> read text within a PowerPoint slide? If so, how would I read
> it?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com
> 


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Wed Mar  7 00:35:17 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 18:35:17 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
In-Reply-To: <1331080209.60699.YahooMailClassic@web162003.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <72F843C1-85A6-4412-A634-1D9AD64E1215@cox.net>
	<1331080209.60699.YahooMailClassic@web162003.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOsvG7Y6xDMXT7zcCizTyg6bLpaEfUGaOmeSnU3Uit5eyA@mail.gmail.com>

I mentioned Microsoft Word, because as far as my computer's
concerned,PDF files take too long to load.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/6/12, Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com> wrote:
> The best thing to do would be to save it as a PDF document. If you go to
> save as, you sould see a option to save it as a pdf.
> Anmol
> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps
> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze
> among flowers.
> Hellen Keller
>
>
> --- On Tue, 3/6/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>
>> From: Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net>
>> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
>> To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Tuesday, March 6, 2012, 5:42 PM
>> Hey, does anyone know if jaws will
>> read text within a PowerPoint slide? If so, how would I read
>> it?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From marrie12 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 00:39:09 2012
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 16:39:09 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] It's the living room on wics radio america
Message-ID: <35B46545-95FB-4CCA-B75C-EAD3B2A8FE36@gmail.com>

Hello to all. I woudl like to present to you a new show called the living room. jana Jackson has been with us for about 2 weeks now and she  is an energetic person who presents gospel music like you've never heard it before. So join her tomorrow from 10 to 1 pm eastern for some fun gospel music and to praise and worship the lord.

place: http://listen.ultrastreams.us:8022/stream.m3u
time: wednesdays from 10 am to 1 pm eastern

See ya there.


From mgoalball at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 00:43:32 2012
From: mgoalball at gmail.com (Matt McCubbin)
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 19:43:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <CA+3U9s7L7h-GtfWcNGSPcKQdNXrbn9yE99RP8CU0=mBGFnKK5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6793C73F22564605866F718F2E660D8C@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s7L7h-GtfWcNGSPcKQdNXrbn9yE99RP8CU0=mBGFnKK5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F56AF34.60802@gmail.com>

Justin,
Nokia is the manufacturer of the N82/N86. However, these phones won't be 
compatible with Verizon's CDMA network technology. You would have to 
switch to AT&T or TMobile to use these phones.
Also, Nokia phones aren't sold through any of the major US carriers, so 
you would need to purchase one at a much higher cost, either new from an 
electronics retailer, or used.
If you wish to stay with Verizon as your carrier, you have a couple 
options. However, if you want an accessible calendar on your phone, you 
will need to invest in a smartphone.
1. The iPhone starting at $99. You stated earlier that the iPhone's 
touchscreen didn't really work for you. Frustration is understandable, 
there is a definite learning-curve with this device. There are numerous 
resources available on the Internet to help you get up and going with 
the phone. Also, the National Braille Press is currently revising their 
"getting started with the iPhone" book. The calendar on the iPhone is 
completely accessible, and offers the location features you asked about.
2. An Android phone. With the right software, Android is quite 
accessible. In adition, some of Verizon's droid phones come with 
dedicated physical keyboards. Mobile Accessibility from Code Factory for 
$99 makes Android quite accesible, and offers more options to customize 
the screen-reader than VoiceOver on the iPhone. It's not quite like the 
out-of-the-box experience of the iPhone, but with MA, many aps for 
Android are made accessible. Plus, you can often get Android devices for 
free or inexpensively with a two-year contract.
I strongly encourage you to spend a good amount of time with either 
operating system, Verizon offers at least a 14-day return policy.
I hope this helps, and feel free to email me off-list if you have 
additional questions.
Best regards,
Matt


On 3/6/2012 6:25 PM, Justin Young wrote:
> Thanks a bunch for all of your feedback.  Who makes the Nokia N82/86?
> That may be an optionworth at least looking at.
>
> Thanks again:)
>
> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>> Maybe a tactile overlay would help with the touch screen. I'm old fashioned
>> and have a regular phone; it may have a calendar, but if it does it does not
>> talk. It only talks when incoming calls come in. I
>> use another calendar to stay organized. I wish NFB would push for more
>> accessible phones. Come on, not everyone wants a smart phone; however, I
>> would like access to the on screen menus; I want to know who called
>> yesterday in my missed calls list; and I want to read texts. But No do not
>> want the bells and whistles of the I phone.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Katie Wang
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 2:05 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>
>> Hi Justin,
>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>> Katie
>>
>>
>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young<jty727 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>
>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not sure
>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>
>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>
>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>
>>>> Justin
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From brlsurfer at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 00:50:28 2012
From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas)
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 16:50:28 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i react?
Message-ID: <4f56b0df.e25c340a.3c13.ffff8ba4@mx.google.com>

Hi,
The person I am writing about is not my aide, it's another guy.  
This guy, Gregory, helps out with other kids, I think maybe the 
ones who are autistic?
Anyway, when I've seen him recently he has been ABSOLUTELY 
ANNOYING.
For example, for no other reason than the fact that I was 
travelling on my own, he said he was proud of me.  But I didn't 
do anything! I'm just traveling, exactly as I should!
On a second incident, when I was outside a classroom, I had to 
call my mom for something, and he came up.  After being told that 
I was on the phone, I was just about to leave the message when he 
began talking again in his loud voice, and I had to call her 
again.  When somebody knows you're on the phone, they should 
seriously JUST LEAVE.
And maybe the worst was today.  He followed me the WHOLE ENTIRE 
last quarter of my math class.  He would tell me to turn left, 
even if I knew I had to.  And the weirdest thing was that when I 
was walking, I felt a trash can with my cane and went around it 
just as I was supposed to.  Then a couple seconds later he said, 
"There's a trash can." Yes, I know.  I went around it a couple of 
seconds ago.
I really need help.  He really bugs me.  I'm assuming he might 
just be uneducated in blindness, as he is so used to working with 
learning-disabled and autistíc people and probably has to do a 
lot with them.
I've considered telling my aide, but they're sort of friends and 
knowing who he is (I've had this aide for three years, same one I 
talked about about getting lost a week ago), I'm assuming he's 
probably going to make some excuse for Gregory (they're on 
friendly terms.)
How can I get the message across to Gregory? Seriously if he 
doesn't listen to the fact that I'm about to send my mom a 
message, how am I going to expect him to listen if I talk with 
him firmly?
Thank you so much.
Vejas



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Wed Mar  7 00:54:07 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 18:54:07 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i react?
In-Reply-To: <4f56b0df.e25c340a.3c13.ffff8ba4@mx.google.com>
References: <4f56b0df.e25c340a.3c13.ffff8ba4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOuWxVCOZ5=uY4w-f_x0ngM9OToe1qyeoLUU0UaD31+mmQ@mail.gmail.com>

Ask your mom to talk to him.
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/6/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> The person I am writing about is not my aide, it's another guy.
> This guy, Gregory, helps out with other kids, I think maybe the
> ones who are autistic?
> Anyway, when I've seen him recently he has been ABSOLUTELY
> ANNOYING.
> For example, for no other reason than the fact that I was
> travelling on my own, he said he was proud of me.  But I didn't
> do anything! I'm just traveling, exactly as I should!
> On a second incident, when I was outside a classroom, I had to
> call my mom for something, and he came up.  After being told that
> I was on the phone, I was just about to leave the message when he
> began talking again in his loud voice, and I had to call her
> again.  When somebody knows you're on the phone, they should
> seriously JUST LEAVE.
> And maybe the worst was today.  He followed me the WHOLE ENTIRE
> last quarter of my math class.  He would tell me to turn left,
> even if I knew I had to.  And the weirdest thing was that when I
> was walking, I felt a trash can with my cane and went around it
> just as I was supposed to.  Then a couple seconds later he said,
> "There's a trash can." Yes, I know.  I went around it a couple of
> seconds ago.
> I really need help.  He really bugs me.  I'm assuming he might
> just be uneducated in blindness, as he is so used to working with
> learning-disabled and autistíc people and probably has to do a
> lot with them.
> I've considered telling my aide, but they're sort of friends and
> knowing who he is (I've had this aide for three years, same one I
> talked about about getting lost a week ago), I'm assuming he's
> probably going to make some excuse for Gregory (they're on
> friendly terms.)
> How can I get the message across to Gregory? Seriously if he
> doesn't listen to the fact that I'm about to send my mom a
> message, how am I going to expect him to listen if I talk with
> him firmly?
> Thank you so much.
> Vejas
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 01:44:05 2012
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 17:44:05 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <4F56AF34.60802@gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com><7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC><CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com><CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com><6793C73F22564605866F718F2E660D8C@OwnerPC><CA+3U9s7L7h-GtfWcNGSPcKQdNXrbn9yE99RP8CU0=mBGFnKK5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F56AF34.60802@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45EFC0B09AFD4D54AAF34F95340CF52B@HUMBERTOAVILA>

Hello,

You can also get the HTC Ozone from Verizon. This phone has a physical
keyboard, the keys may feel quite crammed  at first, though it is better
than a touchscreen. It can include either Talks from Nuance communications,
Inc., or Mobile Speak from code Factory. I believe you can get that phone
with either of both screen readers pre-installed on it, or purchase either
screen reader for a discounted, affordable price once you get the phone. I'm
not sure if Verizon Wireless still does this, though, and you might want to
ask around your Local Verizon store to see if they would offer that phone
with or without talks or mobile speak. Happy phone-searchin'!

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Matt McCubbin
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 4:44 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender

Justin,
Nokia is the manufacturer of the N82/N86. However, these phones won't be 
compatible with Verizon's CDMA network technology. You would have to 
switch to AT&T or TMobile to use these phones.
Also, Nokia phones aren't sold through any of the major US carriers, so 
you would need to purchase one at a much higher cost, either new from an 
electronics retailer, or used.
If you wish to stay with Verizon as your carrier, you have a couple 
options. However, if you want an accessible calendar on your phone, you 
will need to invest in a smartphone.
1. The iPhone starting at $99. You stated earlier that the iPhone's 
touchscreen didn't really work for you. Frustration is understandable, 
there is a definite learning-curve with this device. There are numerous 
resources available on the Internet to help you get up and going with 
the phone. Also, the National Braille Press is currently revising their 
"getting started with the iPhone" book. The calendar on the iPhone is 
completely accessible, and offers the location features you asked about.
2. An Android phone. With the right software, Android is quite 
accessible. In adition, some of Verizon's droid phones come with 
dedicated physical keyboards. Mobile Accessibility from Code Factory for 
$99 makes Android quite accesible, and offers more options to customize 
the screen-reader than VoiceOver on the iPhone. It's not quite like the 
out-of-the-box experience of the iPhone, but with MA, many aps for 
Android are made accessible. Plus, you can often get Android devices for 
free or inexpensively with a two-year contract.
I strongly encourage you to spend a good amount of time with either 
operating system, Verizon offers at least a 14-day return policy.
I hope this helps, and feel free to email me off-list if you have 
additional questions.
Best regards,
Matt


On 3/6/2012 6:25 PM, Justin Young wrote:
> Thanks a bunch for all of your feedback.  Who makes the Nokia N82/86?
> That may be an optionworth at least looking at.
>
> Thanks again:)
>
> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>> Maybe a tactile overlay would help with the touch screen. I'm old
fashioned
>> and have a regular phone; it may have a calendar, but if it does it does
not
>> talk. It only talks when incoming calls come in. I
>> use another calendar to stay organized. I wish NFB would push for more
>> accessible phones. Come on, not everyone wants a smart phone; however, I
>> would like access to the on screen menus; I want to know who called
>> yesterday in my missed calls list; and I want to read texts. But No do
not
>> want the bells and whistles of the I phone.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Katie Wang
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 2:05 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>
>> Hi Justin,
>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>> Katie
>>
>>
>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young<jty727 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>
>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not sure
>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>
>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>
>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>
>>>> Justin
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mgoalball%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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mail.com



From jty727 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 01:56:57 2012
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 20:56:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <45EFC0B09AFD4D54AAF34F95340CF52B@HUMBERTOAVILA>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6793C73F22564605866F718F2E660D8C@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s7L7h-GtfWcNGSPcKQdNXrbn9yE99RP8CU0=mBGFnKK5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F56AF34.60802@gmail.com>
	<45EFC0B09AFD4D54AAF34F95340CF52B@HUMBERTOAVILA>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s5yQ4pG04hrS7CJVVbSXby2nh1UVt3qAD_j4skwdNE0cQ@mail.gmail.com>

Humberto and all thanks for the suggestions.  I shall for sure look
into your suggestion of the HTC Ozone from Verizon.  It sounds
interesting.

Justin

On 3/6/12, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> You can also get the HTC Ozone from Verizon. This phone has a physical
> keyboard, the keys may feel quite crammed  at first, though it is better
> than a touchscreen. It can include either Talks from Nuance communications,
> Inc., or Mobile Speak from code Factory. I believe you can get that phone
> with either of both screen readers pre-installed on it, or purchase either
> screen reader for a discounted, affordable price once you get the phone. I'm
> not sure if Verizon Wireless still does this, though, and you might want to
> ask around your Local Verizon store to see if they would offer that phone
> with or without talks or mobile speak. Happy phone-searchin'!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Matt McCubbin
> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 4:44 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>
> Justin,
> Nokia is the manufacturer of the N82/N86. However, these phones won't be
> compatible with Verizon's CDMA network technology. You would have to
> switch to AT&T or TMobile to use these phones.
> Also, Nokia phones aren't sold through any of the major US carriers, so
> you would need to purchase one at a much higher cost, either new from an
> electronics retailer, or used.
> If you wish to stay with Verizon as your carrier, you have a couple
> options. However, if you want an accessible calendar on your phone, you
> will need to invest in a smartphone.
> 1. The iPhone starting at $99. You stated earlier that the iPhone's
> touchscreen didn't really work for you. Frustration is understandable,
> there is a definite learning-curve with this device. There are numerous
> resources available on the Internet to help you get up and going with
> the phone. Also, the National Braille Press is currently revising their
> "getting started with the iPhone" book. The calendar on the iPhone is
> completely accessible, and offers the location features you asked about.
> 2. An Android phone. With the right software, Android is quite
> accessible. In adition, some of Verizon's droid phones come with
> dedicated physical keyboards. Mobile Accessibility from Code Factory for
> $99 makes Android quite accesible, and offers more options to customize
> the screen-reader than VoiceOver on the iPhone. It's not quite like the
> out-of-the-box experience of the iPhone, but with MA, many aps for
> Android are made accessible. Plus, you can often get Android devices for
> free or inexpensively with a two-year contract.
> I strongly encourage you to spend a good amount of time with either
> operating system, Verizon offers at least a 14-day return policy.
> I hope this helps, and feel free to email me off-list if you have
> additional questions.
> Best regards,
> Matt
>
>
> On 3/6/2012 6:25 PM, Justin Young wrote:
>> Thanks a bunch for all of your feedback.  Who makes the Nokia N82/86?
>> That may be an optionworth at least looking at.
>>
>> Thanks again:)
>>
>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>> Maybe a tactile overlay would help with the touch screen. I'm old
> fashioned
>>> and have a regular phone; it may have a calendar, but if it does it does
> not
>>> talk. It only talks when incoming calls come in. I
>>> use another calendar to stay organized. I wish NFB would push for more
>>> accessible phones. Come on, not everyone wants a smart phone; however, I
>>> would like access to the on screen menus; I want to know who called
>>> yesterday in my missed calls list; and I want to read texts. But No do
> not
>>> want the bells and whistles of the I phone.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Katie Wang
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 2:05 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>
>>> Hi Justin,
>>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>>> Katie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young<jty727 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not sure
>>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>>
>>>>> Justin
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
> net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
> net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mgoalball%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g
> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 02:13:04 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 21:13:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] fw: [nfbmd] 3rd annual Be OK with Blindness: save the date
Message-ID: <4f56c458.a526340a.306b.ffff9229@mx.google.com>



 ---- Original Message ------
From: Amy Phelps <aphelps at BISM.org
Subject: [Nfbmd] 3rd Annual Be OK with Blindness - Save the Date
Date sent: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 21:14:01 +0000


Dear Friends and Colleagues,

Please help us spread the word about this fantastic day-long 
workshop!

What:          3rd Annual Be OK with Blindness Workshop
When:          Saturday, April 30, 2012
                    8:00 AM to 5:00 PM
Where:        National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute
                    200 E.  Wells Street, Baltimore, MD 21230
Who:            Parents of blind and low vision children, teens, 
and young adults
                    Teachers and Para-professionals of blind and 
low vision student
Blind and low vision children, teens, and young adults
Sponsors:    Maryland Parents of Blind Children
                    Blind Industries and Services of Maryland
Cost:            No cost (Continental breakfast & lunch provided)
Application: 3rd Annual Be OK with 
Blindness<https://www.formrouter.net/forms at BISM/BeOK2012.html

What will participants gain from this day-long workshop?
Parents and Teachers

  *   Exposure to technology frequently used by blind and low 
vision students in the classroom and at home
  *   Hands-on training in the use of Notetakers, screen access 
technology, and Apple iOS devices provided by staff of the NFB JI 
International Braille and Technology Center
  *   Information and resources to support blind and low vision 
children, teens and young adults or students in achieving true 
independence

Blind and low vision youth and young adults (8 years to 24 years)
Tracks will be divided into appropriate age groupings

  *   Learn how the skills of blindness will help in achieving 
success in school and in life
  *   Hands on access to nearly all of the tactile and speech 
output technology now available to the blind at the National 
Federation of the Blind
International Braille and Technology 
Center<http://nfb.org/technology-center

  *   Who's IEP and IPE is it anyway? How to take the lead in the 
development of "your" IEP and IPE
  *   Learning and networking with blind mentors and role models
  *   Self-advocacy - finding my voice

Childcare will be provided for children (3 months to 7 years)

If you have any questions, please contact:
Dezman Jackson djackson at bism.org<mailto:djackson at bism.org> (410) 
737-2676 or
Trudy Pickrell 
tlpickrel at hotmail.com<mailto:tlpickrel at hotmail.com> (301) 
501-1818


Warm regards,

Amy C.  Phelps, CRC, NOMC
Check out our BISM Youth 
Programs<http://bism.org/youthservices.cfm

Follow us: Facebook - Bism YouthPrograms
Twitter @BISM_Youth

Help sponsor our youth program activities 
Donate<https://npo.networkforgood..org/Donate/Donate.aspx?npoSubs
criptionId=1003647

Blind Industries and Services of Maryland
3345 Washington Blvd
Baltimore, MD 21227
Phone: 410-737-2642
Mobile: 410-274-1647
Fax: 410-737-2689
Toll Free: 888-322-4567
E-mail: aphelps at bism.org<mailto:aphelps at bism.org

"...given proper training and opportunity, the average blind 
person can do the average job in the average place of business 
and do it as well as his or her sighted neighbor..." --Dr.  
Kenneth Jernigan, quoted in "Freedom for the Blind" by James H.  
Omvig




Confidentiality Note:  The information contained in this message 
may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure.  
If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, or 
an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to 
the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is 
strictly prohibited.  If you have received this communication in 
error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message 
and deleting it from your computer.




From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 02:21:07 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 21:21:07 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] correction on the date of Be OK with Blindness
Message-ID: <4f56c63c.a66d340a.572a.ffff980d@mx.google.com>

Hello everyone,

A slight correction on the announcement I just sent about the Be 
OK with Blindness seminar at the national center.  The date is 
actually April 21, not April 30.  Again, the Be OK with Blindness 
seminar sponsored by Blind Industries and Services of Maryland 
(BISM) and the Maryland Organization of Parents of Blind Children 
(MDPOBC) will be held on Saturday, April 21 instead of April 30 
at the NFB Jernigan Institute.  Sorry for the confusion!

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Mar  7 02:33:51 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 21:33:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOt4j_9i5AwZkCxMtuEbi9XqfPgRNNx9TYWYFj8qxPbAwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72F843C1-85A6-4412-A634-1D9AD64E1215@cox.net>
	<CAO83KOt4j_9i5AwZkCxMtuEbi9XqfPgRNNx9TYWYFj8qxPbAwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9746D7F49E724A7AB10AC9658D6CA88B@OwnerPC>

Joshua,
Probably because you pressed the wrong keys; you cannot just down arrow or 
hit insert down arrow to read each slide. You have to tab through the 
fields.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 6:50 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws

Hi, Kayla.
First of all, welcome to the list!
I've had problems, getting Jaws to read powerpoints.
I don't know why, though.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/6/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
> Hey, does anyone know if jaws will read text within a PowerPoint slide? If
> so, how would I read it?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Mar  7 02:34:27 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 21:34:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
In-Reply-To: <7B7F554A-6EAB-4045-BABD-F2FD12EDCA77@cox.net>
References: <72F843C1-85A6-4412-A634-1D9AD64E1215@cox.net><CAO83KOt4j_9i5AwZkCxMtuEbi9XqfPgRNNx9TYWYFj8qxPbAwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<7B7F554A-6EAB-4045-BABD-F2FD12EDCA77@cox.net>
Message-ID: <BF2B4BEBC96F40F683F633B1C230F43F@OwnerPC>

I recommend Ms word if at all possible. easier to navigate it.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Kayla Paige
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 7:05 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws

Thanks, very much. What program is best to use if my teacher were to send me 
a worksheet? Would she use adobe reader or ms word?

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 6, 2012, at 6:50 PM, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> 
wrote:

> Hi, Kayla.
> First of all, welcome to the list!
> I've had problems, getting Jaws to read powerpoints.
> I don't know why, though.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/6/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>> Hey, does anyone know if jaws will read text within a PowerPoint slide? 
>> If
>> so, how would I read it?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kayla.mattox%40cox.net

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Wed Mar  7 02:45:33 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 18:45:33 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
References: <72F843C1-85A6-4412-A634-1D9AD64E1215@cox.net>
Message-ID: <4D7535B4BF3D47C9B598604F19F928FF@stanford.edu>

What version of PowerPoint are you using?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kayla Paige" <kayla.mattox at cox.net>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 3:42 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws


> Hey, does anyone know if jaws will read text within a PowerPoint slide? If 
> so, how would I read it?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 02:50:32 2012
From: franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com (jonathan franks)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 20:50:32 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
In-Reply-To: <4D7535B4BF3D47C9B598604F19F928FF@stanford.edu>
References: <72F843C1-85A6-4412-A634-1D9AD64E1215@cox.net>
	<4D7535B4BF3D47C9B598604F19F928FF@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <CAHEy+8WOoArv3JrRz0sGxD-7hShoMN7EQ_uTxkMqHpoG3Zct8A@mail.gmail.com>

When I learned a brief introduction to powerpoint in 2008, my teacher
claimed it wasn't very jaws accessible. Have they made improvements,
so that it is jaws accessible. I have a feeling I might need to learn
and use it at some point in my college career.


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Wed Mar  7 02:51:32 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 18:51:32 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i react?
References: <4f56b0df.e25c340a.3c13.ffff8ba4@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <0D457462016D4764AB9ACCCE905F1666@stanford.edu>

Bluntly explain to him that you appreciate his help but that you don't need 
it. Ask him what he thinks your cane is for. Next time he starts following 
you, stop and refuse to go anywhere until he stops following you. Tell him 
that you have an aide already and that aide would do what he is doing if he 
thought it was necessary. As far as the talking on the phone, ask him how he 
would like it. Then, do something like, when leaving the message for your 
mother, include that you had to hang up before because he was being rude. If 
this does not stop things, go talk to whoever his boss is.

Nicole

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 4:50 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i react?


Hi,
The person I am writing about is not my aide, it's another guy.
This guy, Gregory, helps out with other kids, I think maybe the
ones who are autistic?
Anyway, when I've seen him recently he has been ABSOLUTELY
ANNOYING.
For example, for no other reason than the fact that I was
travelling on my own, he said he was proud of me.  But I didn't
do anything! I'm just traveling, exactly as I should!
On a second incident, when I was outside a classroom, I had to
call my mom for something, and he came up.  After being told that
I was on the phone, I was just about to leave the message when he
began talking again in his loud voice, and I had to call her
again.  When somebody knows you're on the phone, they should
seriously JUST LEAVE.
And maybe the worst was today.  He followed me the WHOLE ENTIRE
last quarter of my math class.  He would tell me to turn left,
even if I knew I had to.  And the weirdest thing was that when I
was walking, I felt a trash can with my cane and went around it
just as I was supposed to.  Then a couple seconds later he said,
"There's a trash can." Yes, I know.  I went around it a couple of
seconds ago.
I really need help.  He really bugs me.  I'm assuming he might
just be uneducated in blindness, as he is so used to working with
learning-disabled and autistíc people and probably has to do a
lot with them.
I've considered telling my aide, but they're sort of friends and
knowing who he is (I've had this aide for three years, same one I
talked about about getting lost a week ago), I'm assuming he's
probably going to make some excuse for Gregory (they're on
friendly terms.)
How can I get the message across to Gregory? Seriously if he
doesn't listen to the fact that I'm about to send my mom a
message, how am I going to expect him to listen if I talk with
him firmly?
Thank you so much.
Vejas


_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Mar  7 02:56:06 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 21:56:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
In-Reply-To: <CAHEy+8WOoArv3JrRz0sGxD-7hShoMN7EQ_uTxkMqHpoG3Zct8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72F843C1-85A6-4412-A634-1D9AD64E1215@cox.net><4D7535B4BF3D47C9B598604F19F928FF@stanford.edu>
	<CAHEy+8WOoArv3JrRz0sGxD-7hShoMN7EQ_uTxkMqHpoG3Zct8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A21A225824FA4421B8B61A75E9746EA7@OwnerPC>

Yes its jaws accessible. As I said though you cannot use the typical read 
all command, insert down arrow though. No it will not read tables in my 
experience; it will not tell you what the graphics are, but it does read 
text.

-----Original Message----- 
From: jonathan franks
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 9:50 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws

When I learned a brief introduction to powerpoint in 2008, my teacher
claimed it wasn't very jaws accessible. Have they made improvements,
so that it is jaws accessible. I have a feeling I might need to learn
and use it at some point in my college career.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 02:58:39 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 19:58:39 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
In-Reply-To: <CAHEy+8WOoArv3JrRz0sGxD-7hShoMN7EQ_uTxkMqHpoG3Zct8A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72F843C1-85A6-4412-A634-1D9AD64E1215@cox.net>
	<4D7535B4BF3D47C9B598604F19F928FF@stanford.edu>
	<CAHEy+8WOoArv3JrRz0sGxD-7hShoMN7EQ_uTxkMqHpoG3Zct8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJC+jYyDSG-VvQjsu-DjmQ5L6znt7eEjcAJ__ccLe6sxhw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kayla,
If your teacher emails you a PowerPoint, you can save it as an outline
(RTF) file and then open it with Microsoft Word to read the text. You
can also read text directly on PowerPoint slides by opening the
presentation and using tab to get into the body of the slide and then
Page Down to go to the next slide. The problem is that in PowerPoint
you have to read the whole slide at once instead of reading by line or
paragraph like you can do in Word.
Finally, for those of you who have Gmail, if someone emails you a
PowerPoint or PDF document, instead of saving it, click "view as HTML"
and the text will appear in a user-friendly, easily searchable form,
like a website without any links.  Note this does not work for scanned
PDF's, but it does work for electronically generated PDF's (like those
you might get from your disability office), PowerPoints, and Word
documents. This is how I read almost all the class handouts and
presentations I receive from other people. In fact, if you don't have
a Gmail account yet, I would suggest getting one for just this
purpose.
Arielle

On 3/6/12, jonathan franks <franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com> wrote:
> When I learned a brief introduction to powerpoint in 2008, my teacher
> claimed it wasn't very jaws accessible. Have they made improvements,
> so that it is jaws accessible. I have a feeling I might need to learn
> and use it at some point in my college career.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From mgoalball at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 03:06:45 2012
From: mgoalball at gmail.com (Matt McCubbin)
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 22:06:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <CA+3U9s5yQ4pG04hrS7CJVVbSXby2nh1UVt3qAD_j4skwdNE0cQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6793C73F22564605866F718F2E660D8C@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s7L7h-GtfWcNGSPcKQdNXrbn9yE99RP8CU0=mBGFnKK5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F56AF34.60802@gmail.com>
	<45EFC0B09AFD4D54AAF34F95340CF52B@HUMBERTOAVILA>
	<CA+3U9s5yQ4pG04hrS7CJVVbSXby2nh1UVt3qAD_j4skwdNE0cQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4F56D0C5.1010901@gmail.com>

Justin,
I'm pretty sure Verizon isn't selling the HTC OZone anymore. The phone 
is at least 2 years old. You may have good luck getting it used on EBay, 
or refurbished from Verizon or an electronics retailer.
According to this page:
http://aboutus.verizonwireless.com/accessibility/talks.html
Verizon isn't offering Talks anymore, so you would need to purchase 
Mobile Speak from Code Factory.
hope this helps.
Best regards,
Matt


On 3/6/2012 8:56 PM, Justin Young wrote:
> Humberto and all thanks for the suggestions.  I shall for sure look
> into your suggestion of the HTC Ozone from Verizon.  It sounds
> interesting.
>
> Justin
>
> On 3/6/12, Humberto Avila<avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> You can also get the HTC Ozone from Verizon. This phone has a physical
>> keyboard, the keys may feel quite crammed  at first, though it is better
>> than a touchscreen. It can include either Talks from Nuance communications,
>> Inc., or Mobile Speak from code Factory. I believe you can get that phone
>> with either of both screen readers pre-installed on it, or purchase either
>> screen reader for a discounted, affordable price once you get the phone. I'm
>> not sure if Verizon Wireless still does this, though, and you might want to
>> ask around your Local Verizon store to see if they would offer that phone
>> with or without talks or mobile speak. Happy phone-searchin'!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Matt McCubbin
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 4:44 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>
>> Justin,
>> Nokia is the manufacturer of the N82/N86. However, these phones won't be
>> compatible with Verizon's CDMA network technology. You would have to
>> switch to AT&T or TMobile to use these phones.
>> Also, Nokia phones aren't sold through any of the major US carriers, so
>> you would need to purchase one at a much higher cost, either new from an
>> electronics retailer, or used.
>> If you wish to stay with Verizon as your carrier, you have a couple
>> options. However, if you want an accessible calendar on your phone, you
>> will need to invest in a smartphone.
>> 1. The iPhone starting at $99. You stated earlier that the iPhone's
>> touchscreen didn't really work for you. Frustration is understandable,
>> there is a definite learning-curve with this device. There are numerous
>> resources available on the Internet to help you get up and going with
>> the phone. Also, the National Braille Press is currently revising their
>> "getting started with the iPhone" book. The calendar on the iPhone is
>> completely accessible, and offers the location features you asked about.
>> 2. An Android phone. With the right software, Android is quite
>> accessible. In adition, some of Verizon's droid phones come with
>> dedicated physical keyboards. Mobile Accessibility from Code Factory for
>> $99 makes Android quite accesible, and offers more options to customize
>> the screen-reader than VoiceOver on the iPhone. It's not quite like the
>> out-of-the-box experience of the iPhone, but with MA, many aps for
>> Android are made accessible. Plus, you can often get Android devices for
>> free or inexpensively with a two-year contract.
>> I strongly encourage you to spend a good amount of time with either
>> operating system, Verizon offers at least a 14-day return policy.
>> I hope this helps, and feel free to email me off-list if you have
>> additional questions.
>> Best regards,
>> Matt
>>
>>
>> On 3/6/2012 6:25 PM, Justin Young wrote:
>>> Thanks a bunch for all of your feedback.  Who makes the Nokia N82/86?
>>> That may be an optionworth at least looking at.
>>>
>>> Thanks again:)
>>>
>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>   wrote:
>>>> Maybe a tactile overlay would help with the touch screen. I'm old
>> fashioned
>>>> and have a regular phone; it may have a calendar, but if it does it does
>> not
>>>> talk. It only talks when incoming calls come in. I
>>>> use another calendar to stay organized. I wish NFB would push for more
>>>> accessible phones. Come on, not everyone wants a smart phone; however, I
>>>> would like access to the on screen menus; I want to know who called
>>>> yesterday in my missed calls list; and I want to read texts. But No do
>> not
>>>> want the bells and whistles of the I phone.
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Katie Wang
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 2:05 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>
>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>>>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>>>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>>>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>>>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>>>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>>>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>>>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>>>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>>>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>>>> Katie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young<jty727 at gmail.com>   wrote:
>>>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>>>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>   wrote:
>>>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not sure
>>>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>>>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
>> net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
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>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> mail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Wed Mar  7 03:06:43 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 19:06:43 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
References: <72F843C1-85A6-4412-A634-1D9AD64E1215@cox.net><4D7535B4BF3D47C9B598604F19F928FF@stanford.edu>
	<CAHEy+8WOoArv3JrRz0sGxD-7hShoMN7EQ_uTxkMqHpoG3Zct8A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D103D406B7AF4C79921D955614088298@stanford.edu>

Your TVI or your sighted teacher? There are ways that PowerPoint could be 
better, but it is manageable, especially if you are using 2003.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jonathan franks" <franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws


> When I learned a brief introduction to powerpoint in 2008, my teacher
> claimed it wasn't very jaws accessible. Have they made improvements,
> so that it is jaws accessible. I have a feeling I might need to learn
> and use it at some point in my college career.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 02:12:49 2012
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 22:12:49 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJC+jYyDSG-VvQjsu-DjmQ5L6znt7eEjcAJ__ccLe6sxhw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <72F843C1-85A6-4412-A634-1D9AD64E1215@cox.net><4D7535B4BF3D47C9B598604F19F928FF@stanford.edu><CAHEy+8WOoArv3JrRz0sGxD-7hShoMN7EQ_uTxkMqHpoG3Zct8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJC+jYyDSG-VvQjsu-DjmQ5L6znt7eEjcAJ__ccLe6sxhw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D00C8028070F436E94CCE9AC5874823E@userPC>

Wow! I didn't know you could do that with gmail! I just had my teachers
email the power points as attachments and than I saved them to my laptop and
opened the powerpoint and read one slide at a time. Thanks for the tip with
gmail.
Rania,

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Arielle Silverman
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:59 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws

Hi Kayla,
If your teacher emails you a PowerPoint, you can save it as an outline
(RTF) file and then open it with Microsoft Word to read the text. You
can also read text directly on PowerPoint slides by opening the
presentation and using tab to get into the body of the slide and then
Page Down to go to the next slide. The problem is that in PowerPoint
you have to read the whole slide at once instead of reading by line or
paragraph like you can do in Word.
Finally, for those of you who have Gmail, if someone emails you a
PowerPoint or PDF document, instead of saving it, click "view as HTML"
and the text will appear in a user-friendly, easily searchable form,
like a website without any links.  Note this does not work for scanned
PDF's, but it does work for electronically generated PDF's (like those
you might get from your disability office), PowerPoints, and Word
documents. This is how I read almost all the class handouts and
presentations I receive from other people. In fact, if you don't have
a Gmail account yet, I would suggest getting one for just this
purpose.
Arielle

On 3/6/12, jonathan franks <franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com> wrote:
> When I learned a brief introduction to powerpoint in 2008, my teacher
> claimed it wasn't very jaws accessible. Have they made improvements,
> so that it is jaws accessible. I have a feeling I might need to learn
> and use it at some point in my college career.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co
m



From jty727 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 03:17:01 2012
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 22:17:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <4F56D0C5.1010901@gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6793C73F22564605866F718F2E660D8C@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s7L7h-GtfWcNGSPcKQdNXrbn9yE99RP8CU0=mBGFnKK5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F56AF34.60802@gmail.com>
	<45EFC0B09AFD4D54AAF34F95340CF52B@HUMBERTOAVILA>
	<CA+3U9s5yQ4pG04hrS7CJVVbSXby2nh1UVt3qAD_j4skwdNE0cQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F56D0C5.1010901@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s6Au9RURZ=bGWhB3POw_g0tpuYbDMfKpgVfJnDBPD5Fmw@mail.gmail.com>

Very much so.  Thanks!

On 3/6/12, Matt McCubbin <mgoalball at gmail.com> wrote:
> Justin,
> I'm pretty sure Verizon isn't selling the HTC OZone anymore. The phone
> is at least 2 years old. You may have good luck getting it used on EBay,
> or refurbished from Verizon or an electronics retailer.
> According to this page:
> http://aboutus.verizonwireless.com/accessibility/talks.html
> Verizon isn't offering Talks anymore, so you would need to purchase
> Mobile Speak from Code Factory.
> hope this helps.
> Best regards,
> Matt
>
>
> On 3/6/2012 8:56 PM, Justin Young wrote:
>> Humberto and all thanks for the suggestions.  I shall for sure look
>> into your suggestion of the HTC Ozone from Verizon.  It sounds
>> interesting.
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> On 3/6/12, Humberto Avila<avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> You can also get the HTC Ozone from Verizon. This phone has a physical
>>> keyboard, the keys may feel quite crammed  at first, though it is better
>>> than a touchscreen. It can include either Talks from Nuance
>>> communications,
>>> Inc., or Mobile Speak from code Factory. I believe you can get that phone
>>> with either of both screen readers pre-installed on it, or purchase
>>> either
>>> screen reader for a discounted, affordable price once you get the phone.
>>> I'm
>>> not sure if Verizon Wireless still does this, though, and you might want
>>> to
>>> ask around your Local Verizon store to see if they would offer that phone
>>> with or without talks or mobile speak. Happy phone-searchin'!
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Matt McCubbin
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 4:44 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>
>>> Justin,
>>> Nokia is the manufacturer of the N82/N86. However, these phones won't be
>>> compatible with Verizon's CDMA network technology. You would have to
>>> switch to AT&T or TMobile to use these phones.
>>> Also, Nokia phones aren't sold through any of the major US carriers, so
>>> you would need to purchase one at a much higher cost, either new from an
>>> electronics retailer, or used.
>>> If you wish to stay with Verizon as your carrier, you have a couple
>>> options. However, if you want an accessible calendar on your phone, you
>>> will need to invest in a smartphone.
>>> 1. The iPhone starting at $99. You stated earlier that the iPhone's
>>> touchscreen didn't really work for you. Frustration is understandable,
>>> there is a definite learning-curve with this device. There are numerous
>>> resources available on the Internet to help you get up and going with
>>> the phone. Also, the National Braille Press is currently revising their
>>> "getting started with the iPhone" book. The calendar on the iPhone is
>>> completely accessible, and offers the location features you asked about.
>>> 2. An Android phone. With the right software, Android is quite
>>> accessible. In adition, some of Verizon's droid phones come with
>>> dedicated physical keyboards. Mobile Accessibility from Code Factory for
>>> $99 makes Android quite accesible, and offers more options to customize
>>> the screen-reader than VoiceOver on the iPhone. It's not quite like the
>>> out-of-the-box experience of the iPhone, but with MA, many aps for
>>> Android are made accessible. Plus, you can often get Android devices for
>>> free or inexpensively with a two-year contract.
>>> I strongly encourage you to spend a good amount of time with either
>>> operating system, Verizon offers at least a 14-day return policy.
>>> I hope this helps, and feel free to email me off-list if you have
>>> additional questions.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/6/2012 6:25 PM, Justin Young wrote:
>>>> Thanks a bunch for all of your feedback.  Who makes the Nokia N82/86?
>>>> That may be an optionworth at least looking at.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again:)
>>>>
>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>   wrote:
>>>>> Maybe a tactile overlay would help with the touch screen. I'm old
>>> fashioned
>>>>> and have a regular phone; it may have a calendar, but if it does it
>>>>> does
>>> not
>>>>> talk. It only talks when incoming calls come in. I
>>>>> use another calendar to stay organized. I wish NFB would push for more
>>>>> accessible phones. Come on, not everyone wants a smart phone; however,
>>>>> I
>>>>> would like access to the on screen menus; I want to know who called
>>>>> yesterday in my missed calls list; and I want to read texts. But No do
>>> not
>>>>> want the bells and whistles of the I phone.
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Katie Wang
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 2:05 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>>>>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>>>>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>>>>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>>>>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>>>>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>>>>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>>>>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>>>>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>>>>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>>>>> Katie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young<jty727 at gmail.com>   wrote:
>>>>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>>>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>>>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>>>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>>>>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>   wrote:
>>>>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not
>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>>>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible
>>>>>>> calender
>>>>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>>>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
>>> net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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From arielle71 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 03:23:17 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 20:23:17 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i react?
In-Reply-To: <0D457462016D4764AB9ACCCE905F1666@stanford.edu>
References: <4f56b0df.e25c340a.3c13.ffff8ba4@mx.google.com>
	<0D457462016D4764AB9ACCCE905F1666@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBa7QPEkxVaZQcOOOowKiqKO22GKmQ_7d-UshidHPiFuw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Vejas,
First of all I can totally relate to what you are experiencing. When I
was in high school I had very similar frustrating encounters with one
of the special ed aides as well as some of the teachers and other
staff at my school. Unfortunately the problem doesn't ever really go
away, just the other day I was walking to my building on campus and
had some random guy following me and audio-describing my whole route
("There's a curb coming up, watch out, there you found it" etc.)
It's important to remember you aren't alone in this and that the way
this guy treats you has more to do with him and his own issues than it
does with you. As you pointed out, he is used to working with students
who have much more intense disabilities than you have and he likely
knows very little about blindness. So definitely don't take it
personally.
I don't recommend being rude or sarcastic toward him, because
unfortunately since you are a student, if he gets offended by
something you say to him, he could tell on you to your aide or another
authority at school. Even if you're just trying to stand up for
yourself, you run the risk of getting in trouble if your actions are
misunderstood. I say this as someone who got in trouble with my TVI
and my parents because I tried to stand up for myself.
It's important to think about whether his behavior is just irritating
or if it makes you feel unsafe or distracts you from getting around
efficiently. If it's just annoying, you may just want to try not to
talk to him or if he starts acting weird or condescending, just ignore
him. If on the other hand his following you makes you feel
uncomfortable or is distracting you, you may need to tell him in a
no-nonsense way that his actions aren't helpful. For example, with the
guy who was following me and narrating the other day, I turned to him
and said "I need you to be quiet so I can hear what's around me" and
this worked. My worst pet peeve is when people talk to me while I am
trying to line up to cross the street and I have learned to say "I
need you to be quiet so I can hear the traffic". Sometimes these
people genuinely think they are giving helpful information and they
never considered that it's actually more helpful for us to be able to
pay attention and listen for sound landmarks. You could also just
simply say, "Please stop following me; thank you". Again you want to
be polite, but you also want to be clear that you don't like what he's
doing. It's still possible he might get mad and tell on you to your
aide, but at least you can say you tried to be as polite and
diplomatic as possible when dealing with him.
If it gets really bad or he starts to creep you out, you could try
talking to the principal or your guidance counselor about the
situation.
I still haven't found a good way to handle the many people who tell me
I'm amazing/awesome/brave for living my life. Sometimes I find myself
just responding with silence if I really just don't have the energy to
try to work with them. If I have the time, I might say something like
"actually for me what I do feels pretty normal". I recently started
telling people, if it felt like they might listen, that the skills I
use are ones a sighted person could learn after a year or so of
training. But I'm not sure any of these tactics really make a
difference in terms of showing people that we're really not all that
special. Have any of you found any other ideas for dealing with this?
Arielle

On 3/6/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Bluntly explain to him that you appreciate his help but that you don't need
> it. Ask him what he thinks your cane is for. Next time he starts following
> you, stop and refuse to go anywhere until he stops following you. Tell him
> that you have an aide already and that aide would do what he is doing if he
> thought it was necessary. As far as the talking on the phone, ask him how he
> would like it. Then, do something like, when leaving the message for your
> mother, include that you had to hang up before because he was being rude. If
> this does not stop things, go talk to whoever his boss is.
>
> Nicole
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 4:50 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i react?
>
>
> Hi,
> The person I am writing about is not my aide, it's another guy.
> This guy, Gregory, helps out with other kids, I think maybe the
> ones who are autistic?
> Anyway, when I've seen him recently he has been ABSOLUTELY
> ANNOYING.
> For example, for no other reason than the fact that I was
> travelling on my own, he said he was proud of me.  But I didn't
> do anything! I'm just traveling, exactly as I should!
> On a second incident, when I was outside a classroom, I had to
> call my mom for something, and he came up.  After being told that
> I was on the phone, I was just about to leave the message when he
> began talking again in his loud voice, and I had to call her
> again.  When somebody knows you're on the phone, they should
> seriously JUST LEAVE.
> And maybe the worst was today.  He followed me the WHOLE ENTIRE
> last quarter of my math class.  He would tell me to turn left,
> even if I knew I had to.  And the weirdest thing was that when I
> was walking, I felt a trash can with my cane and went around it
> just as I was supposed to.  Then a couple seconds later he said,
> "There's a trash can." Yes, I know.  I went around it a couple of
> seconds ago.
> I really need help.  He really bugs me.  I'm assuming he might
> just be uneducated in blindness, as he is so used to working with
> learning-disabled and autistíc people and probably has to do a
> lot with them.
> I've considered telling my aide, but they're sort of friends and
> knowing who he is (I've had this aide for three years, same one I
> talked about about getting lost a week ago), I'm assuming he's
> probably going to make some excuse for Gregory (they're on
> friendly terms.)
> How can I get the message across to Gregory? Seriously if he
> doesn't listen to the fact that I'm about to send my mom a
> message, how am I going to expect him to listen if I talk with
> him firmly?
> Thank you so much.
> Vejas
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From kayla.mattox at cox.net  Wed Mar  7 03:36:34 2012
From: kayla.mattox at cox.net (Kayla Paige)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 22:36:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
In-Reply-To: <D00C8028070F436E94CCE9AC5874823E@userPC>
References: <72F843C1-85A6-4412-A634-1D9AD64E1215@cox.net>
	<4D7535B4BF3D47C9B598604F19F928FF@stanford.edu>
	<CAHEy+8WOoArv3JrRz0sGxD-7hShoMN7EQ_uTxkMqHpoG3Zct8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJC+jYyDSG-VvQjsu-DjmQ5L6znt7eEjcAJ__ccLe6sxhw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D00C8028070F436E94CCE9AC5874823E@userPC>
Message-ID: <67AC9904-32CF-42B8-9312-54917640D0FC@cox.net>

Thanks very much.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 6, 2012, at 9:12 PM, "Rania Ismail CMT" <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Wow! I didn't know you could do that with gmail! I just had my teachers
> email the power points as attachments and than I saved them to my laptop and
> opened the powerpoint and read one slide at a time. Thanks for the tip with
> gmail.
> Rania,
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:59 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
> 
> Hi Kayla,
> If your teacher emails you a PowerPoint, you can save it as an outline
> (RTF) file and then open it with Microsoft Word to read the text. You
> can also read text directly on PowerPoint slides by opening the
> presentation and using tab to get into the body of the slide and then
> Page Down to go to the next slide. The problem is that in PowerPoint
> you have to read the whole slide at once instead of reading by line or
> paragraph like you can do in Word.
> Finally, for those of you who have Gmail, if someone emails you a
> PowerPoint or PDF document, instead of saving it, click "view as HTML"
> and the text will appear in a user-friendly, easily searchable form,
> like a website without any links.  Note this does not work for scanned
> PDF's, but it does work for electronically generated PDF's (like those
> you might get from your disability office), PowerPoints, and Word
> documents. This is how I read almost all the class handouts and
> presentations I receive from other people. In fact, if you don't have
> a Gmail account yet, I would suggest getting one for just this
> purpose.
> Arielle
> 
> On 3/6/12, jonathan franks <franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> When I learned a brief introduction to powerpoint in 2008, my teacher
>> claimed it wasn't very jaws accessible. Have they made improvements,
>> so that it is jaws accessible. I have a feeling I might need to learn
>> and use it at some point in my college career.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co
> m
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kayla.mattox%40cox.net


From ignasicambra at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 03:56:12 2012
From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 22:56:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <4F56AF34.60802@gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6793C73F22564605866F718F2E660D8C@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s7L7h-GtfWcNGSPcKQdNXrbn9yE99RP8CU0=mBGFnKK5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F56AF34.60802@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-7079707465848573922@unknownmsgid>

AT&T definitely sells some subsidized Nokia phones. At least they did
not too long ago...

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 6, 2012, at 7:44 PM, Matt McCubbin <mgoalball at gmail.com> wrote:

> Justin,
> Nokia is the manufacturer of the N82/N86. However, these phones won't be compatible with Verizon's CDMA network technology. You would have to switch to AT&T or TMobile to use these phones.
> Also, Nokia phones aren't sold through any of the major US carriers, so you would need to purchase one at a much higher cost, either new from an electronics retailer, or used.
> If you wish to stay with Verizon as your carrier, you have a couple options. However, if you want an accessible calendar on your phone, you will need to invest in a smartphone.
> 1. The iPhone starting at $99. You stated earlier that the iPhone's touchscreen didn't really work for you. Frustration is understandable, there is a definite learning-curve with this device. There are numerous resources available on the Internet to help you get up and going with the phone. Also, the National Braille Press is currently revising their "getting started with the iPhone" book. The calendar on the iPhone is completely accessible, and offers the location features you asked about.
> 2. An Android phone. With the right software, Android is quite accessible. In adition, some of Verizon's droid phones come with dedicated physical keyboards. Mobile Accessibility from Code Factory for $99 makes Android quite accesible, and offers more options to customize the screen-reader than VoiceOver on the iPhone. It's not quite like the out-of-the-box experience of the iPhone, but with MA, many aps for Android are made accessible. Plus, you can often get Android devices for free or inexpensively with a two-year contract.
> I strongly encourage you to spend a good amount of time with either operating system, Verizon offers at least a 14-day return policy.
> I hope this helps, and feel free to email me off-list if you have additional questions.
> Best regards,
> Matt
>
>
> On 3/6/2012 6:25 PM, Justin Young wrote:
>> Thanks a bunch for all of your feedback.  Who makes the Nokia N82/86?
>> That may be an optionworth at least looking at.
>>
>> Thanks again:)
>>
>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>> Maybe a tactile overlay would help with the touch screen. I'm old fashioned
>>> and have a regular phone; it may have a calendar, but if it does it does not
>>> talk. It only talks when incoming calls come in. I
>>> use another calendar to stay organized. I wish NFB would push for more
>>> accessible phones. Come on, not everyone wants a smart phone; however, I
>>> would like access to the on screen menus; I want to know who called
>>> yesterday in my missed calls list; and I want to read texts. But No do not
>>> want the bells and whistles of the I phone.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Katie Wang
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 2:05 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>
>>> Hi Justin,
>>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>>> Katie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young<jty727 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not sure
>>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>>
>>>>> Justin
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mgoalball%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From carisuekness at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 04:18:56 2012
From: carisuekness at gmail.com (Cari Ford)
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 22:18:56 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i react?
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJBa7QPEkxVaZQcOOOowKiqKO22GKmQ_7d-UshidHPiFuw@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <4f56b0df.e25c340a.3c13.ffff8ba4@mx.google.com>
	<0D457462016D4764AB9ACCCE905F1666@stanford.edu>
	<CALAYQJBa7QPEkxVaZQcOOOowKiqKO22GKmQ_7d-UshidHPiFuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4f56e1aa.0723640a.12fb.ffffe781@mx.google.com>

Hi all,
I know these situations well. I was on the way 
home from seeing a friend off on a mega bus back 
to Chicago. One of the metrolink employees 
(offered to walk with me to the metrolink station 
since I was trying to get accurate directions. I 
had never gotten on at that station. He was 
helpful in walking with me and he was going that 
way himself so I didn't feel so bad. Anyway, 
along the way, he was telling me about every tree 
and bump in the sidewalk. It was somewhat 
annoying but I reminded myself that I use a cane 
and get this information regardlesss of his 
ongoing diologue about each tree or bump. I 
decided to smile and nod my head and keep going. 
Why ruen an act of kindness? He did save me time 
because there were some unknown kinks that would have hung me up for a while.
At school, I am in a class held in an auditorium 
setting. I sit in the front row. There is a woman 
with a hearing loss but not blind. She uses a 
notetaker. Her notetaker uses her laptop and 
plugs it in with a long extention cord. The cord 
goes across the isle so if I want to go past 
them, I have to step over the cord. It's just 
sitting on the floor so it's not a huge deal, yet 
they think so big time. So far I've just blown 
them off but inside I'm really annoyed. Right now 
if I can, I just sit to their right to avoid 
having to step over the cord and blow their big 
deal off if I have to go by them.
It is hard because when someone makes a big deal 
like that, I want to too. They pannic and when 
someone says, "watch out! watch out! watch out!", 
I tend to stop feeling there is really some 
danger. I'm working on that anxiety.
Talk to you later.
Peace,
Cari
   At 09:23 PM 3/6/2012, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>Hi Vejas,
>First of all I can totally relate to what you are experiencing. When I
>was in high school I had very similar frustrating encounters with one
>of the special ed aides as well as some of the teachers and other
>staff at my school. Unfortunately the problem doesn't ever really go
>away, just the other day I was walking to my building on campus and
>had some random guy following me and audio-describing my whole route
>("There's a curb coming up, watch out, there you found it" etc.)
>It's important to remember you aren't alone in this and that the way
>this guy treats you has more to do with him and his own issues than it
>does with you. As you pointed out, he is used to working with students
>who have much more intense disabilities than you have and he likely
>knows very little about blindness. So definitely don't take it
>personally.
>I don't recommend being rude or sarcastic toward him, because
>unfortunately since you are a student, if he gets offended by
>something you say to him, he could tell on you to your aide or another
>authority at school. Even if you're just trying to stand up for
>yourself, you run the risk of getting in trouble if your actions are
>misunderstood. I say this as someone who got in trouble with my TVI
>and my parents because I tried to stand up for myself.
>It's important to think about whether his behavior is just irritating
>or if it makes you feel unsafe or distracts you from getting around
>efficiently. If it's just annoying, you may just want to try not to
>talk to him or if he starts acting weird or condescending, just ignore
>him. If on the other hand his following you makes you feel
>uncomfortable or is distracting you, you may need to tell him in a
>no-nonsense way that his actions aren't helpful. For example, with the
>guy who was following me and narrating the other day, I turned to him
>and said "I need you to be quiet so I can hear what's around me" and
>this worked. My worst pet peeve is when people talk to me while I am
>trying to line up to cross the street and I have learned to say "I
>need you to be quiet so I can hear the traffic". Sometimes these
>people genuinely think they are giving helpful information and they
>never considered that it's actually more helpful for us to be able to
>pay attention and listen for sound landmarks. You could also just
>simply say, "Please stop following me; thank you". Again you want to
>be polite, but you also want to be clear that you don't like what he's
>doing. It's still possible he might get mad and tell on you to your
>aide, but at least you can say you tried to be as polite and
>diplomatic as possible when dealing with him.
>If it gets really bad or he starts to creep you out, you could try
>talking to the principal or your guidance counselor about the
>situation.
>I still haven't found a good way to handle the many people who tell me
>I'm amazing/awesome/brave for living my life. Sometimes I find myself
>just responding with silence if I really just don't have the energy to
>try to work with them. If I have the time, I might say something like
>"actually for me what I do feels pretty normal". I recently started
>telling people, if it felt like they might listen, that the skills I
>use are ones a sighted person could learn after a year or so of
>training. But I'm not sure any of these tactics really make a
>difference in terms of showing people that we're really not all that
>special. Have any of you found any other ideas for dealing with this?
>Arielle
>
>On 3/6/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> > Bluntly explain to him that you appreciate his help but that you don't need
> > it. Ask him what he thinks your cane is for. Next time he starts following
> > you, stop and refuse to go anywhere until he stops following you. Tell him
> > that you have an aide already and that aide would do what he is doing if he
> > thought it was necessary. As far as the 
> talking on the phone, ask him how he
> > would like it. Then, do something like, when leaving the message for your
> > mother, include that you had to hang up 
> before because he was being rude. If
> > this does not stop things, go talk to whoever his boss is.
> >
> > Nicole
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com>
> > To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 4:50 PM
> > Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i react?
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> > The person I am writing about is not my aide, it's another guy.
> > This guy, Gregory, helps out with other kids, I think maybe the
> > ones who are autistic?
> > Anyway, when I've seen him recently he has been ABSOLUTELY
> > ANNOYING.
> > For example, for no other reason than the fact that I was
> > travelling on my own, he said he was proud of me.  But I didn't
> > do anything! I'm just traveling, exactly as I should!
> > On a second incident, when I was outside a classroom, I had to
> > call my mom for something, and he came up.  After being told that
> > I was on the phone, I was just about to leave the message when he
> > began talking again in his loud voice, and I had to call her
> > again.  When somebody knows you're on the phone, they should
> > seriously JUST LEAVE.
> > And maybe the worst was today.  He followed me the WHOLE ENTIRE
> > last quarter of my math class.  He would tell me to turn left,
> > even if I knew I had to.  And the weirdest thing was that when I
> > was walking, I felt a trash can with my cane and went around it
> > just as I was supposed to.  Then a couple seconds later he said,
> > "There's a trash can." Yes, I know.  I went around it a couple of
> > seconds ago.
> > I really need help.  He really bugs me.  I'm assuming he might
> > just be uneducated in blindness, as he is so used to working with
> > learning-disabled and autistíc people and probably has to do a
> > lot with them.
> > I've considered telling my aide, but they're sort of friends and
> > knowing who he is (I've had this aide for three years, same one I
> > talked about about getting lost a week ago), I'm assuming he's
> > probably going to make some excuse for Gregory (they're on
> > friendly terms.)
> > How can I get the message across to Gregory? Seriously if he
> > doesn't listen to the fact that I'm about to send my mom a
> > message, how am I going to expect him to listen if I talk with
> > him firmly?
> > Thank you so much.
> > Vejas
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carisuekness%40gmail.com



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Wed Mar  7 04:30:22 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 20:30:22 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i react?
References: <4f56b0df.e25c340a.3c13.ffff8ba4@mx.google.com><0D457462016D4764AB9ACCCE905F1666@stanford.edu><CALAYQJBa7QPEkxVaZQcOOOowKiqKO22GKmQ_7d-UshidHPiFuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4f56e1aa.0723640a.12fb.ffffe781@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <369AE247D5F748559E8F992D4FD07126@stanford.edu>

I feel that this is different. If someone works with people with 
disabilities, they need to understand that not all people with disabilities 
are the same. Also, it can be very condescending, even if it is not on 
purpose, to be treated as though you have some kind of cognitive disability.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cari Ford" <carisuekness at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i react?


Hi all,
I know these situations well. I was on the way
home from seeing a friend off on a mega bus back
to Chicago. One of the metrolink employees
(offered to walk with me to the metrolink station
since I was trying to get accurate directions. I
had never gotten on at that station. He was
helpful in walking with me and he was going that
way himself so I didn't feel so bad. Anyway,
along the way, he was telling me about every tree
and bump in the sidewalk. It was somewhat
annoying but I reminded myself that I use a cane
and get this information regardlesss of his
ongoing diologue about each tree or bump. I
decided to smile and nod my head and keep going.
Why ruen an act of kindness? He did save me time
because there were some unknown kinks that would have hung me up for a 
while.
At school, I am in a class held in an auditorium
setting. I sit in the front row. There is a woman
with a hearing loss but not blind. She uses a
notetaker. Her notetaker uses her laptop and
plugs it in with a long extention cord. The cord
goes across the isle so if I want to go past
them, I have to step over the cord. It's just
sitting on the floor so it's not a huge deal, yet
they think so big time. So far I've just blown
them off but inside I'm really annoyed. Right now
if I can, I just sit to their right to avoid
having to step over the cord and blow their big
deal off if I have to go by them.
It is hard because when someone makes a big deal
like that, I want to too. They pannic and when
someone says, "watch out! watch out! watch out!",
I tend to stop feeling there is really some
danger. I'm working on that anxiety.
Talk to you later.
Peace,
Cari
   At 09:23 PM 3/6/2012, Arielle Silverman wrote:
>Hi Vejas,
>First of all I can totally relate to what you are experiencing. When I
>was in high school I had very similar frustrating encounters with one
>of the special ed aides as well as some of the teachers and other
>staff at my school. Unfortunately the problem doesn't ever really go
>away, just the other day I was walking to my building on campus and
>had some random guy following me and audio-describing my whole route
>("There's a curb coming up, watch out, there you found it" etc.)
>It's important to remember you aren't alone in this and that the way
>this guy treats you has more to do with him and his own issues than it
>does with you. As you pointed out, he is used to working with students
>who have much more intense disabilities than you have and he likely
>knows very little about blindness. So definitely don't take it
>personally.
>I don't recommend being rude or sarcastic toward him, because
>unfortunately since you are a student, if he gets offended by
>something you say to him, he could tell on you to your aide or another
>authority at school. Even if you're just trying to stand up for
>yourself, you run the risk of getting in trouble if your actions are
>misunderstood. I say this as someone who got in trouble with my TVI
>and my parents because I tried to stand up for myself.
>It's important to think about whether his behavior is just irritating
>or if it makes you feel unsafe or distracts you from getting around
>efficiently. If it's just annoying, you may just want to try not to
>talk to him or if he starts acting weird or condescending, just ignore
>him. If on the other hand his following you makes you feel
>uncomfortable or is distracting you, you may need to tell him in a
>no-nonsense way that his actions aren't helpful. For example, with the
>guy who was following me and narrating the other day, I turned to him
>and said "I need you to be quiet so I can hear what's around me" and
>this worked. My worst pet peeve is when people talk to me while I am
>trying to line up to cross the street and I have learned to say "I
>need you to be quiet so I can hear the traffic". Sometimes these
>people genuinely think they are giving helpful information and they
>never considered that it's actually more helpful for us to be able to
>pay attention and listen for sound landmarks. You could also just
>simply say, "Please stop following me; thank you". Again you want to
>be polite, but you also want to be clear that you don't like what he's
>doing. It's still possible he might get mad and tell on you to your
>aide, but at least you can say you tried to be as polite and
>diplomatic as possible when dealing with him.
>If it gets really bad or he starts to creep you out, you could try
>talking to the principal or your guidance counselor about the
>situation.
>I still haven't found a good way to handle the many people who tell me
>I'm amazing/awesome/brave for living my life. Sometimes I find myself
>just responding with silence if I really just don't have the energy to
>try to work with them. If I have the time, I might say something like
>"actually for me what I do feels pretty normal". I recently started
>telling people, if it felt like they might listen, that the skills I
>use are ones a sighted person could learn after a year or so of
>training. But I'm not sure any of these tactics really make a
>difference in terms of showing people that we're really not all that
>special. Have any of you found any other ideas for dealing with this?
>Arielle
>
>On 3/6/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> > Bluntly explain to him that you appreciate his help but that you don't 
> > need
> > it. Ask him what he thinks your cane is for. Next time he starts 
> > following
> > you, stop and refuse to go anywhere until he stops following you. Tell 
> > him
> > that you have an aide already and that aide would do what he is doing if 
> > he
> > thought it was necessary. As far as the
> talking on the phone, ask him how he
> > would like it. Then, do something like, when leaving the message for 
> > your
> > mother, include that you had to hang up
> before because he was being rude. If
> > this does not stop things, go talk to whoever his boss is.
> >
> > Nicole
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com>
> > To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 4:50 PM
> > Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i react?
> >
> >
> > Hi,
> > The person I am writing about is not my aide, it's another guy.
> > This guy, Gregory, helps out with other kids, I think maybe the
> > ones who are autistic?
> > Anyway, when I've seen him recently he has been ABSOLUTELY
> > ANNOYING.
> > For example, for no other reason than the fact that I was
> > travelling on my own, he said he was proud of me.  But I didn't
> > do anything! I'm just traveling, exactly as I should!
> > On a second incident, when I was outside a classroom, I had to
> > call my mom for something, and he came up.  After being told that
> > I was on the phone, I was just about to leave the message when he
> > began talking again in his loud voice, and I had to call her
> > again.  When somebody knows you're on the phone, they should
> > seriously JUST LEAVE.
> > And maybe the worst was today.  He followed me the WHOLE ENTIRE
> > last quarter of my math class.  He would tell me to turn left,
> > even if I knew I had to.  And the weirdest thing was that when I
> > was walking, I felt a trash can with my cane and went around it
> > just as I was supposed to.  Then a couple seconds later he said,
> > "There's a trash can." Yes, I know.  I went around it a couple of
> > seconds ago.
> > I really need help.  He really bugs me.  I'm assuming he might
> > just be uneducated in blindness, as he is so used to working with
> > learning-disabled and autistíc people and probably has to do a
> > lot with them.
> > I've considered telling my aide, but they're sort of friends and
> > knowing who he is (I've had this aide for three years, same one I
> > talked about about getting lost a week ago), I'm assuming he's
> > probably going to make some excuse for Gregory (they're on
> > friendly terms.)
> > How can I get the message across to Gregory? Seriously if he
> > doesn't listen to the fact that I'm about to send my mom a
> > message, how am I going to expect him to listen if I talk with
> > him firmly?
> > Thank you so much.
> > Vejas
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carisuekness%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From kramc11 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 04:34:13 2012
From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 23:34:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i react?
References: <4f56b0df.e25c340a.3c13.ffff8ba4@mx.google.com><0D457462016D4764AB9ACCCE905F1666@stanford.edu><CALAYQJBa7QPEkxVaZQcOOOowKiqKO22GKmQ_7d-UshidHPiFuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4f56e1aa.0723640a.12fb.ffffe781@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <6B00F0C118C74425A5460129152F3BB1@cadiganpc>

Cari,



I have become so jaded about people needlessly telling me to watch out that 
I always just ignore them. This has gotten me into some trouble when there 
was a valid reason for them to tell me to watch out. For example, the other 
day, there was a 2 by 4 sticking out of the back of a truck about 6 feet off 
the ground. Someone started shouting at me, and I ignored them, soon to find 
out why when the 2 by 4 knocked me in the head.



Mark





From leanicole1988 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 04:35:01 2012
From: leanicole1988 at gmail.com (Lea williams)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 23:35:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i react?
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJBa7QPEkxVaZQcOOOowKiqKO22GKmQ_7d-UshidHPiFuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f56b0df.e25c340a.3c13.ffff8ba4@mx.google.com>
	<0D457462016D4764AB9ACCCE905F1666@stanford.edu>
	<CALAYQJBa7QPEkxVaZQcOOOowKiqKO22GKmQ_7d-UshidHPiFuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD0KW=Y6+OM7MpnumpBqj5BiwxaBDKZYiU0ug765Q4GqAu-Zfg@mail.gmail.com>

I have too gone threw this and still do.
I was speaking with a friend this evening and we were on a simular
topic. I thought of something that made since to me.

A lot of times I get people telling me i am so amazing and incredible
for just being blind, like many of you have been told too. And my
thoughts this evening was that to a sighted person, being blind is
like a doctor verses a farmer. Or whatever other types of people you
can come up with. A farmer, if not trained, could never perform
cergery and a doctor if not also taught or train could not heard
cattle and such. But sometimes a sighted person forgets that since
they can not do these things that a blind person do, doesn't mean it
can't be done.
So maybe ask them if they could land a plain if faced with that  event
with no prier training. Then ask them what makes them think a Pilot is
able to? Because they have been trained or taught. Well it is the same
as a blind person, you have learned how to do what you do, and a
sighted person has not been taught but, it doesn't mean you the blind
person, can't do it just because they have not been taught how.

Hope I made since on this part.

On 3/6/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Vejas,
> First of all I can totally relate to what you are experiencing. When I
> was in high school I had very similar frustrating encounters with one
> of the special ed aides as well as some of the teachers and other
> staff at my school. Unfortunately the problem doesn't ever really go
> away, just the other day I was walking to my building on campus and
> had some random guy following me and audio-describing my whole route
> ("There's a curb coming up, watch out, there you found it" etc.)
> It's important to remember you aren't alone in this and that the way
> this guy treats you has more to do with him and his own issues than it
> does with you. As you pointed out, he is used to working with students
> who have much more intense disabilities than you have and he likely
> knows very little about blindness. So definitely don't take it
> personally.
> I don't recommend being rude or sarcastic toward him, because
> unfortunately since you are a student, if he gets offended by
> something you say to him, he could tell on you to your aide or another
> authority at school. Even if you're just trying to stand up for
> yourself, you run the risk of getting in trouble if your actions are
> misunderstood. I say this as someone who got in trouble with my TVI
> and my parents because I tried to stand up for myself.
> It's important to think about whether his behavior is just irritating
> or if it makes you feel unsafe or distracts you from getting around
> efficiently. If it's just annoying, you may just want to try not to
> talk to him or if he starts acting weird or condescending, just ignore
> him. If on the other hand his following you makes you feel
> uncomfortable or is distracting you, you may need to tell him in a
> no-nonsense way that his actions aren't helpful. For example, with the
> guy who was following me and narrating the other day, I turned to him
> and said "I need you to be quiet so I can hear what's around me" and
> this worked. My worst pet peeve is when people talk to me while I am
> trying to line up to cross the street and I have learned to say "I
> need you to be quiet so I can hear the traffic". Sometimes these
> people genuinely think they are giving helpful information and they
> never considered that it's actually more helpful for us to be able to
> pay attention and listen for sound landmarks. You could also just
> simply say, "Please stop following me; thank you". Again you want to
> be polite, but you also want to be clear that you don't like what he's
> doing. It's still possible he might get mad and tell on you to your
> aide, but at least you can say you tried to be as polite and
> diplomatic as possible when dealing with him.
> If it gets really bad or he starts to creep you out, you could try
> talking to the principal or your guidance counselor about the
> situation.
> I still haven't found a good way to handle the many people who tell me
> I'm amazing/awesome/brave for living my life. Sometimes I find myself
> just responding with silence if I really just don't have the energy to
> try to work with them. If I have the time, I might say something like
> "actually for me what I do feels pretty normal". I recently started
> telling people, if it felt like they might listen, that the skills I
> use are ones a sighted person could learn after a year or so of
> training. But I'm not sure any of these tactics really make a
> difference in terms of showing people that we're really not all that
> special. Have any of you found any other ideas for dealing with this?
> Arielle
>
> On 3/6/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> Bluntly explain to him that you appreciate his help but that you don't
>> need
>> it. Ask him what he thinks your cane is for. Next time he starts following
>> you, stop and refuse to go anywhere until he stops following you. Tell him
>> that you have an aide already and that aide would do what he is doing if
>> he
>> thought it was necessary. As far as the talking on the phone, ask him how
>> he
>> would like it. Then, do something like, when leaving the message for your
>> mother, include that you had to hang up before because he was being rude.
>> If
>> this does not stop things, go talk to whoever his boss is.
>>
>> Nicole
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com>
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 4:50 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i react?
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>> The person I am writing about is not my aide, it's another guy.
>> This guy, Gregory, helps out with other kids, I think maybe the
>> ones who are autistic?
>> Anyway, when I've seen him recently he has been ABSOLUTELY
>> ANNOYING.
>> For example, for no other reason than the fact that I was
>> travelling on my own, he said he was proud of me.  But I didn't
>> do anything! I'm just traveling, exactly as I should!
>> On a second incident, when I was outside a classroom, I had to
>> call my mom for something, and he came up.  After being told that
>> I was on the phone, I was just about to leave the message when he
>> began talking again in his loud voice, and I had to call her
>> again.  When somebody knows you're on the phone, they should
>> seriously JUST LEAVE.
>> And maybe the worst was today.  He followed me the WHOLE ENTIRE
>> last quarter of my math class.  He would tell me to turn left,
>> even if I knew I had to.  And the weirdest thing was that when I
>> was walking, I felt a trash can with my cane and went around it
>> just as I was supposed to.  Then a couple seconds later he said,
>> "There's a trash can." Yes, I know.  I went around it a couple of
>> seconds ago.
>> I really need help.  He really bugs me.  I'm assuming he might
>> just be uneducated in blindness, as he is so used to working with
>> learning-disabled and autistíc people and probably has to do a
>> lot with them.
>> I've considered telling my aide, but they're sort of friends and
>> knowing who he is (I've had this aide for three years, same one I
>> talked about about getting lost a week ago), I'm assuming he's
>> probably going to make some excuse for Gregory (they're on
>> friendly terms.)
>> How can I get the message across to Gregory? Seriously if he
>> doesn't listen to the fact that I'm about to send my mom a
>> message, how am I going to expect him to listen if I talk with
>> him firmly?
>> Thank you so much.
>> Vejas
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leanicole1988%40gmail.com
>


-- 

Lea Williams

Phone;
704-732-4470
Skipe;
Lea.williams738
Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
Twitter
http://twitter.com/LeaNicole1988


From samarositz at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 05:04:58 2012
From: samarositz at gmail.com (Stephen Alexander Marositz)
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 21:04:58 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws and PowerPoint
Message-ID: <028801ccfc1f$d95b5950$8c120bf0$@gmail.com>

Greetings 

 

Jaws will read PowerPoint slides.  It's different than reading a text based
document though.  What you need to understand is a slide is made up of
content areas and you can't use your standard reading commands like arrow
keys to read the slide until you are inside one of those content areas.
There are usually two content errias, a title content area and a content
area.  Most of the relevant area will be in the content area.  

 

When you open a PowerPoint slide, press the tab key to move jaws focus to
one of the content areas.  Now if you were to use the arrow keys, you will
move the content area.  Press enter to move focus to inside the content
area.  Once you've done that, you will be able to use whatever reading
command you like to read the text or whatever else has to be inside the
content area.  Press the escape key to move back out of the content area and
PG up and PG down to go the next or previous slide.  

 

I know this is only a brief explanation and it assumes the content within
the PowerPoint is accessible.  You can contact me off list for more detail
about using PowerPoint and Jaws if you like.  

 

Good Luck


From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Mar  7 05:32:06 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 23:32:06 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Florida State University Resolves Litigation with
	Students
Message-ID: <auto-000050992672@mailfront4.g2host.com>


>
>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
>CONTACT:
>
>Chris Danielsen
>
>Director of Public Relations
>
>National Federation of the Blind
>
>(410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
>(410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
><mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org>cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>Jeffery Seay
>
>University Communications
>
>Florida State University
>
>(850) 644-0277
>
>jseay at admin.fsu.edu
>
>
>
>
>Florida State University Resolves Litigation with Students
>
>
>
>
>
>National Federation of the Blind Praises Comprehensive Settlement Agreement
>
>
>
>
>
>Tallahassee, Florida (March 6, 2012): Florida 
>State University and two students who are 
>blind­Christopher Shane Toth and Jamie Ann 
>Principato­have resolved a 
><http://stage.nfb.org/NewsBot.asp?MODE=VIEW&ID=819>lawsuit 
>brought by the two students with the assistance 
>of the <http://www.nfb.org/>National Federation of the Blind last summer.
>
>
>
>The students claimed that they experienced 
>discrimination in violation of state and federal 
>disability laws, including failure to reasonably 
>accommodate their disability and lack of 
>accessible technology.  As a result, they 
>claimed, they were unable to complete courses 
>related to their academic majors.
>
>
>
>Without admitting liability or wrongdoing, the 
>university has agreed to pay each of the 
>students $75,000 in settlement of their claims 
>and to continue its efforts to make courses 
>accessible to all students.  Specifically, the 
>university will examine technology-based 
>instructional materials currently in use for 
>accessibility compliance, and ensure 
>accessibility in future software and hardware procurements.
>
>
>
>“We are extremely pleased with this settlement 
>agreement, which will benefit all current and 
>future blind students at Florida State,” said 
>Dr. Marc Maurer, president of the National 
>Federation of the Blind.  “We commend the 
>university for showing leadership and commitment 
>to treating students with disabilities equally 
>and hope that other institutions of higher 
>learning will follow the example set by Florida State.”
>
>
>
>“I am greatly relieved and pleased that this 
>litigation has been resolved and look forward to 
>continuing my academic career at Florida State 
>on an equal basis with my sighted peers,” Principato said.
>
>
>
>“We are committed to the success of all of our 
>students, including those with disabilities,” 
>said Garnett S. Stokes, provost and executive 
>vice president for academic affairs at Florida 
>State.  “We will continue our efforts to make 
>our institution a welcoming and rewarding 
>environment for students with disabilities.”
>
>The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by 
>Daniel F. Goldstein, Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum, and 
>Brooke E. Lierman of the Baltimore firm Brown, 
>Goldstein, and Levy; and Matthew Dietz of the 
>Miami firm Law Offices of Matthew W. Dietz, P.L.
>
>###
>
>
>
>About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>With more than 50,000 members, the National 
>Federation of the Blind is the largest and most 
>influential membership organization of blind 
>people in the United States. The NFB improves 
>blind people’s lives through advocacy, 
>education, research, technology, and programs 
>encouraging independence and self-confidence. It 
>is the leading force in the blindness field 
>today and the voice of the nation's blind. In 
>January 2004 the NFB opened the National 
>Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the 
>first research and training center in the United 
>States for the blind led by the blind.

From leanicole1988 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 05:51:11 2012
From: leanicole1988 at gmail.com (Lea williams)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 00:51:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] a Skype problem
In-Reply-To: <CAMJOM=3-kco73M0cV7uaf9tim_HxAjxqXUYJMidAG8By78mDPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABpnAxFjLuVVPO1eimOzcYpSqkO1=LnY033XEgtvVheHwWAyVQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD0KW=ZQuivDMzkXHz=esnCRz-9t+WstJjSkxYB4NPWANFP9NA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABpnAxHmF9d-sTdnaGEgterCA5tkOhtSKUmhAopcDx0Tn0Jp8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJOM=3-kco73M0cV7uaf9tim_HxAjxqXUYJMidAG8By78mDPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD0KW=YgqDgPi_4MC-Kz2VgXabB3tYjwE8bBwXRcwC6FzRXqGA@mail.gmail.com>

I do not know what they are for NVDA, and you can get to facebook tab
while on a call I do it any how.

On 3/4/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey what are those commands for nvda?
> Thanks, Josh
>
> On 3/4/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks, Lea! I got it to work; I just can't do it while I'm in a call.
>> BTW, what's your Skype name? Can I add you?
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On 3/4/12, Lea williams <leanicole1988 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> hey try to tab down some times you have to tab down a couple of times,
>>> or listen and see if it says reconnect, if so then press enter.
>>> I get to the facebook tab by pressing ault V and then F. I also have
>>> my skype all in one window.
>>> If you have it the other way, you just press control 3.
>>> You can also get to the tab if you have it all in one window, not sure
>>> about the other way, by pressing control 7.
>>>
>>> HTH
>>>
>>> On 3/3/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I am having a problem with my Skype and Facebook connection. I have
>>>> recently got Skype connected to Facebook, which is really cool... when
>>>> it works. However, when I go to my Facebook tab and hit the space bar,
>>>> it just shows me my live conversations list box. How can I fix this?
>>>> BTW, I'm using JAWS 12 with the JAWS scripts for Skype. Hope you can
>>>> help!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>
>>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real
>>>> problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists. If
>>>> a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can
>>>> be reduced to a mere physical nuissence." -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>>
>>>> Visit the I C.A.N. Foundation online at: www.icanfoundation.info for
>>>> information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
>>>> impaired children in MD say "I can!"
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leanicole1988%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Lea Williams
>>>
>>> Phone;
>>> 704-732-4470
>>> Skipe;
>>> Lea.williams738
>>> Facebook
>>> http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
>>> Twitter
>>> http://twitter.com/LeaNicole1988
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The real
>> problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists. If
>> a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can
>> be reduced to a mere physical nuissence." -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>
>> Visit the I C.A.N. Foundation online at: www.icanfoundation.info for
>> information on our foundation and how it helps blind and visually
>> impaired children in MD say "I can!"
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Sent via gmail.com
> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
> Skype: joshgregory93
>  twitter: JoshG93
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leanicole1988%40gmail.com
>


-- 

Lea Williams

Phone;
704-732-4470
Skipe;
Lea.williams738
Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
Twitter
http://twitter.com/LeaNicole1988


From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 06:02:16 2012
From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 01:02:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <-7079707465848573922@unknownmsgid>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6793C73F22564605866F718F2E660D8C@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s7L7h-GtfWcNGSPcKQdNXrbn9yE99RP8CU0=mBGFnKK5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F56AF34.60802@gmail.com> <-7079707465848573922@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CA+6VNgNLPxG66W98pgei56yXUUq7b5gtKvBDYN++2E0WX_HqHg@mail.gmail.com>

I spoke with At&T a little less than a year ago when I was hunting for
my current phone, and apparently they no longer sold any of the Nokia
phones that work with Mobile Speak. I got my Nokia E75 from an on-line
electronic retailer, which was quite an additional investment, but it
has served me very well. To clarify my previous comment, I'm sure
Nokia Symbian phones (the product series that supports Talks and
Mobile Speak) are still being made and sold in  some countries, but we
can no longer get them through any of the US carriers, and I believe
that the same is true for Windows Mobile smart phones such as the HTC
Ozone. If you are really not ready for a touch-screen device and are
not interested in doing much web browsing/emailing on your phone
anyway, then getting a phone through a third-party vendor on-line and
have Verizon subsidize you for the purchase of Mobile Speak may be the
way to go. Good luck!
Katie


On 3/6/12, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
> AT&T definitely sells some subsidized Nokia phones. At least they did
> not too long ago...
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 6, 2012, at 7:44 PM, Matt McCubbin <mgoalball at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Justin,
>> Nokia is the manufacturer of the N82/N86. However, these phones won't be
>> compatible with Verizon's CDMA network technology. You would have to
>> switch to AT&T or TMobile to use these phones.
>> Also, Nokia phones aren't sold through any of the major US carriers, so
>> you would need to purchase one at a much higher cost, either new from an
>> electronics retailer, or used.
>> If you wish to stay with Verizon as your carrier, you have a couple
>> options. However, if you want an accessible calendar on your phone, you
>> will need to invest in a smartphone.
>> 1. The iPhone starting at $99. You stated earlier that the iPhone's
>> touchscreen didn't really work for you. Frustration is understandable,
>> there is a definite learning-curve with this device. There are numerous
>> resources available on the Internet to help you get up and going with the
>> phone. Also, the National Braille Press is currently revising their
>> "getting started with the iPhone" book. The calendar on the iPhone is
>> completely accessible, and offers the location features you asked about.
>> 2. An Android phone. With the right software, Android is quite accessible.
>> In adition, some of Verizon's droid phones come with dedicated physical
>> keyboards. Mobile Accessibility from Code Factory for $99 makes Android
>> quite accesible, and offers more options to customize the screen-reader
>> than VoiceOver on the iPhone. It's not quite like the out-of-the-box
>> experience of the iPhone, but with MA, many aps for Android are made
>> accessible. Plus, you can often get Android devices for free or
>> inexpensively with a two-year contract.
>> I strongly encourage you to spend a good amount of time with either
>> operating system, Verizon offers at least a 14-day return policy.
>> I hope this helps, and feel free to email me off-list if you have
>> additional questions.
>> Best regards,
>> Matt
>>
>>
>> On 3/6/2012 6:25 PM, Justin Young wrote:
>>> Thanks a bunch for all of your feedback.  Who makes the Nokia N82/86?
>>> That may be an optionworth at least looking at.
>>>
>>> Thanks again:)
>>>
>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>>> Maybe a tactile overlay would help with the touch screen. I'm old
>>>> fashioned
>>>> and have a regular phone; it may have a calendar, but if it does it does
>>>> not
>>>> talk. It only talks when incoming calls come in. I
>>>> use another calendar to stay organized. I wish NFB would push for more
>>>> accessible phones. Come on, not everyone wants a smart phone; however, I
>>>> would like access to the on screen menus; I want to know who called
>>>> yesterday in my missed calls list; and I want to read texts. But No do
>>>> not
>>>> want the bells and whistles of the I phone.
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Katie Wang
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 2:05 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>
>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>>>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>>>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>>>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>>>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>>>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>>>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>>>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>>>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>>>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>>>> Katie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young<jty727 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>>>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not
>>>>>> sure
>>>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>>>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mgoalball%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>


From kayla.mattox at cox.net  Wed Mar  7 15:10:46 2012
From: kayla.mattox at cox.net (Kayla Paige)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 10:10:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws and PowerPoint
In-Reply-To: <028801ccfc1f$d95b5950$8c120bf0$@gmail.com>
References: <028801ccfc1f$d95b5950$8c120bf0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C4CD6443-2D9C-497F-A507-61E07A2128B3@cox.net>

Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 7, 2012, at 12:04 AM, "Stephen Alexander Marositz" <samarositz at gmail.com> wrote:

> Greetings 
> 
> 
> 
> Jaws will read PowerPoint slides.  It's different than reading a text based
> document though.  What you need to understand is a slide is made up of
> content areas and you can't use your standard reading commands like arrow
> keys to read the slide until you are inside one of those content areas.
> There are usually two content errias, a title content area and a content
> area.  Most of the relevant area will be in the content area.  
> 
> 
> 
> When you open a PowerPoint slide, press the tab key to move jaws focus to
> one of the content areas.  Now if you were to use the arrow keys, you will
> move the content area.  Press enter to move focus to inside the content
> area.  Once you've done that, you will be able to use whatever reading
> command you like to read the text or whatever else has to be inside the
> content area.  Press the escape key to move back out of the content area and
> PG up and PG down to go the next or previous slide.  
> 
> 
> 
> I know this is only a brief explanation and it assumes the content within
> the PowerPoint is accessible.  You can contact me off list for more detail
> about using PowerPoint and Jaws if you like.  
> 
> 
> 
> Good Luck
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kayla.mattox%40cox.net


From jty727 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 15:11:33 2012
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 10:11:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <CA+6VNgNLPxG66W98pgei56yXUUq7b5gtKvBDYN++2E0WX_HqHg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6793C73F22564605866F718F2E660D8C@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s7L7h-GtfWcNGSPcKQdNXrbn9yE99RP8CU0=mBGFnKK5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F56AF34.60802@gmail.com> <-7079707465848573922@unknownmsgid>
	<CA+6VNgNLPxG66W98pgei56yXUUq7b5gtKvBDYN++2E0WX_HqHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s49XBiA9WOGo3nK_8G-XDQX2iN-64DmoO-sj9K8NAq6_A@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the advice:)

On 3/7/12, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I spoke with At&T a little less than a year ago when I was hunting for
> my current phone, and apparently they no longer sold any of the Nokia
> phones that work with Mobile Speak. I got my Nokia E75 from an on-line
> electronic retailer, which was quite an additional investment, but it
> has served me very well. To clarify my previous comment, I'm sure
> Nokia Symbian phones (the product series that supports Talks and
> Mobile Speak) are still being made and sold in  some countries, but we
> can no longer get them through any of the US carriers, and I believe
> that the same is true for Windows Mobile smart phones such as the HTC
> Ozone. If you are really not ready for a touch-screen device and are
> not interested in doing much web browsing/emailing on your phone
> anyway, then getting a phone through a third-party vendor on-line and
> have Verizon subsidize you for the purchase of Mobile Speak may be the
> way to go. Good luck!
> Katie
>
>
> On 3/6/12, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
>> AT&T definitely sells some subsidized Nokia phones. At least they did
>> not too long ago...
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 6, 2012, at 7:44 PM, Matt McCubbin <mgoalball at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Justin,
>>> Nokia is the manufacturer of the N82/N86. However, these phones won't be
>>> compatible with Verizon's CDMA network technology. You would have to
>>> switch to AT&T or TMobile to use these phones.
>>> Also, Nokia phones aren't sold through any of the major US carriers, so
>>> you would need to purchase one at a much higher cost, either new from an
>>> electronics retailer, or used.
>>> If you wish to stay with Verizon as your carrier, you have a couple
>>> options. However, if you want an accessible calendar on your phone, you
>>> will need to invest in a smartphone.
>>> 1. The iPhone starting at $99. You stated earlier that the iPhone's
>>> touchscreen didn't really work for you. Frustration is understandable,
>>> there is a definite learning-curve with this device. There are numerous
>>> resources available on the Internet to help you get up and going with the
>>> phone. Also, the National Braille Press is currently revising their
>>> "getting started with the iPhone" book. The calendar on the iPhone is
>>> completely accessible, and offers the location features you asked about.
>>> 2. An Android phone. With the right software, Android is quite
>>> accessible.
>>> In adition, some of Verizon's droid phones come with dedicated physical
>>> keyboards. Mobile Accessibility from Code Factory for $99 makes Android
>>> quite accesible, and offers more options to customize the screen-reader
>>> than VoiceOver on the iPhone. It's not quite like the out-of-the-box
>>> experience of the iPhone, but with MA, many aps for Android are made
>>> accessible. Plus, you can often get Android devices for free or
>>> inexpensively with a two-year contract.
>>> I strongly encourage you to spend a good amount of time with either
>>> operating system, Verizon offers at least a 14-day return policy.
>>> I hope this helps, and feel free to email me off-list if you have
>>> additional questions.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/6/2012 6:25 PM, Justin Young wrote:
>>>> Thanks a bunch for all of your feedback.  Who makes the Nokia N82/86?
>>>> That may be an optionworth at least looking at.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again:)
>>>>
>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>>>> Maybe a tactile overlay would help with the touch screen. I'm old
>>>>> fashioned
>>>>> and have a regular phone; it may have a calendar, but if it does it
>>>>> does
>>>>> not
>>>>> talk. It only talks when incoming calls come in. I
>>>>> use another calendar to stay organized. I wish NFB would push for more
>>>>> accessible phones. Come on, not everyone wants a smart phone; however,
>>>>> I
>>>>> would like access to the on screen menus; I want to know who called
>>>>> yesterday in my missed calls list; and I want to read texts. But No do
>>>>> not
>>>>> want the bells and whistles of the I phone.
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Katie Wang
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 2:05 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>>>>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>>>>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>>>>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>>>>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>>>>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>>>>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>>>>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>>>>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>>>>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>>>>> Katie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young<jty727 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>>>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>>>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>>>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>>>>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>>>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not
>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>>>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible
>>>>>>> calender
>>>>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>>>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mgoalball%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Mar  7 15:19:30 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 10:19:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws and PowerPoint
In-Reply-To: <028801ccfc1f$d95b5950$8c120bf0$@gmail.com>
References: <028801ccfc1f$d95b5950$8c120bf0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <36A152754BFE4D59B7B6F0FA56335A1F@OwnerPC>

right and that was my point; your standard reading commands do not work. 
What I do is read the title section. Then I tab to the content section. Here 
I read line by line  with the arrow keys. Another way is press f 5 for slide 
show mode. Then you can read each slide by pressing insert down arrow.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Stephen Alexander Marositz
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 12:04 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Jaws and PowerPoint

Greetings



Jaws will read PowerPoint slides.  It's different than reading a text based
document though.  What you need to understand is a slide is made up of
content areas and you can't use your standard reading commands like arrow
keys to read the slide until you are inside one of those content areas.
There are usually two content errias, a title content area and a content
area.  Most of the relevant area will be in the content area.



When you open a PowerPoint slide, press the tab key to move jaws focus to
one of the content areas.  Now if you were to use the arrow keys, you will
move the content area.  Press enter to move focus to inside the content
area.  Once you've done that, you will be able to use whatever reading
command you like to read the text or whatever else has to be inside the
content area.  Press the escape key to move back out of the content area and
PG up and PG down to go the next or previous slide.



I know this is only a brief explanation and it assumes the content within
the PowerPoint is accessible.  You can contact me off list for more detail
about using PowerPoint and Jaws if you like.



Good Luck

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From jty727 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 21:50:22 2012
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 16:50:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <CA+3U9s49XBiA9WOGo3nK_8G-XDQX2iN-64DmoO-sj9K8NAq6_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6793C73F22564605866F718F2E660D8C@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s7L7h-GtfWcNGSPcKQdNXrbn9yE99RP8CU0=mBGFnKK5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F56AF34.60802@gmail.com> <-7079707465848573922@unknownmsgid>
	<CA+6VNgNLPxG66W98pgei56yXUUq7b5gtKvBDYN++2E0WX_HqHg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+3U9s49XBiA9WOGo3nK_8G-XDQX2iN-64DmoO-sj9K8NAq6_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s6mYKNp7DLu_zHVPr8XZk4taouENkHgdEiriCF-2qBrfw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All!

Ignasi I'm sorry, but I must of missed that post could you send that
agin here or a link or whatever here?  All the suggestions on this
thread have been very helpful and appreciated:)

On 3/7/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the advice:)
>
> On 3/7/12, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I spoke with At&T a little less than a year ago when I was hunting for
>> my current phone, and apparently they no longer sold any of the Nokia
>> phones that work with Mobile Speak. I got my Nokia E75 from an on-line
>> electronic retailer, which was quite an additional investment, but it
>> has served me very well. To clarify my previous comment, I'm sure
>> Nokia Symbian phones (the product series that supports Talks and
>> Mobile Speak) are still being made and sold in  some countries, but we
>> can no longer get them through any of the US carriers, and I believe
>> that the same is true for Windows Mobile smart phones such as the HTC
>> Ozone. If you are really not ready for a touch-screen device and are
>> not interested in doing much web browsing/emailing on your phone
>> anyway, then getting a phone through a third-party vendor on-line and
>> have Verizon subsidize you for the purchase of Mobile Speak may be the
>> way to go. Good luck!
>> Katie
>>
>>
>> On 3/6/12, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> AT&T definitely sells some subsidized Nokia phones. At least they did
>>> not too long ago...
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 6, 2012, at 7:44 PM, Matt McCubbin <mgoalball at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Justin,
>>>> Nokia is the manufacturer of the N82/N86. However, these phones won't
>>>> be
>>>> compatible with Verizon's CDMA network technology. You would have to
>>>> switch to AT&T or TMobile to use these phones.
>>>> Also, Nokia phones aren't sold through any of the major US carriers, so
>>>> you would need to purchase one at a much higher cost, either new from
>>>> an
>>>> electronics retailer, or used.
>>>> If you wish to stay with Verizon as your carrier, you have a couple
>>>> options. However, if you want an accessible calendar on your phone, you
>>>> will need to invest in a smartphone.
>>>> 1. The iPhone starting at $99. You stated earlier that the iPhone's
>>>> touchscreen didn't really work for you. Frustration is understandable,
>>>> there is a definite learning-curve with this device. There are numerous
>>>> resources available on the Internet to help you get up and going with
>>>> the
>>>> phone. Also, the National Braille Press is currently revising their
>>>> "getting started with the iPhone" book. The calendar on the iPhone is
>>>> completely accessible, and offers the location features you asked
>>>> about.
>>>> 2. An Android phone. With the right software, Android is quite
>>>> accessible.
>>>> In adition, some of Verizon's droid phones come with dedicated physical
>>>> keyboards. Mobile Accessibility from Code Factory for $99 makes Android
>>>> quite accesible, and offers more options to customize the screen-reader
>>>> than VoiceOver on the iPhone. It's not quite like the out-of-the-box
>>>> experience of the iPhone, but with MA, many aps for Android are made
>>>> accessible. Plus, you can often get Android devices for free or
>>>> inexpensively with a two-year contract.
>>>> I strongly encourage you to spend a good amount of time with either
>>>> operating system, Verizon offers at least a 14-day return policy.
>>>> I hope this helps, and feel free to email me off-list if you have
>>>> additional questions.
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Matt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/6/2012 6:25 PM, Justin Young wrote:
>>>>> Thanks a bunch for all of your feedback.  Who makes the Nokia N82/86?
>>>>> That may be an optionworth at least looking at.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks again:)
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>>>>> Maybe a tactile overlay would help with the touch screen. I'm old
>>>>>> fashioned
>>>>>> and have a regular phone; it may have a calendar, but if it does it
>>>>>> does
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> talk. It only talks when incoming calls come in. I
>>>>>> use another calendar to stay organized. I wish NFB would push for
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> accessible phones. Come on, not everyone wants a smart phone;
>>>>>> however,
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> would like access to the on screen menus; I want to know who called
>>>>>> yesterday in my missed calls list; and I want to read texts. But No
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> want the bells and whistles of the I phone.
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Katie Wang
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 2:05 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>>>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen,
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>>>>>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>>>>>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products.
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>>>>>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>>>>>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of
>>>>>> blind
>>>>>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>>>>>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>>>>>> Katie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young<jty727 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>>>>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my
>>>>>>> Haven
>>>>>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>>>>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>>>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not
>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>>>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my
>>>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible
>>>>>>>> calender
>>>>>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is
>>>>>>>> non-touch
>>>>>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>>>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mgoalball%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>
>


From jty727 at gmail.com  Wed Mar  7 21:51:11 2012
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 16:51:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <CA+3U9s6mYKNp7DLu_zHVPr8XZk4taouENkHgdEiriCF-2qBrfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6793C73F22564605866F718F2E660D8C@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s7L7h-GtfWcNGSPcKQdNXrbn9yE99RP8CU0=mBGFnKK5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F56AF34.60802@gmail.com> <-7079707465848573922@unknownmsgid>
	<CA+6VNgNLPxG66W98pgei56yXUUq7b5gtKvBDYN++2E0WX_HqHg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+3U9s49XBiA9WOGo3nK_8G-XDQX2iN-64DmoO-sj9K8NAq6_A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+3U9s6mYKNp7DLu_zHVPr8XZk4taouENkHgdEiriCF-2qBrfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s6ymJQdcNFV+Ni4c4vN7ihAaoYB-x+SDgwfP1a=M-MYpA@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, pressed sent early.  The one about a built in keyboard case or whatever?

On 3/7/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All!
>
> Ignasi I'm sorry, but I must of missed that post could you send that
> agin here or a link or whatever here?  All the suggestions on this
> thread have been very helpful and appreciated:)
>
> On 3/7/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks for the advice:)
>>
>> On 3/7/12, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I spoke with At&T a little less than a year ago when I was hunting for
>>> my current phone, and apparently they no longer sold any of the Nokia
>>> phones that work with Mobile Speak. I got my Nokia E75 from an on-line
>>> electronic retailer, which was quite an additional investment, but it
>>> has served me very well. To clarify my previous comment, I'm sure
>>> Nokia Symbian phones (the product series that supports Talks and
>>> Mobile Speak) are still being made and sold in  some countries, but we
>>> can no longer get them through any of the US carriers, and I believe
>>> that the same is true for Windows Mobile smart phones such as the HTC
>>> Ozone. If you are really not ready for a touch-screen device and are
>>> not interested in doing much web browsing/emailing on your phone
>>> anyway, then getting a phone through a third-party vendor on-line and
>>> have Verizon subsidize you for the purchase of Mobile Speak may be the
>>> way to go. Good luck!
>>> Katie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/6/12, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> AT&T definitely sells some subsidized Nokia phones. At least they did
>>>> not too long ago...
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 6, 2012, at 7:44 PM, Matt McCubbin <mgoalball at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Justin,
>>>>> Nokia is the manufacturer of the N82/N86. However, these phones won't
>>>>> be
>>>>> compatible with Verizon's CDMA network technology. You would have to
>>>>> switch to AT&T or TMobile to use these phones.
>>>>> Also, Nokia phones aren't sold through any of the major US carriers,
>>>>> so
>>>>> you would need to purchase one at a much higher cost, either new from
>>>>> an
>>>>> electronics retailer, or used.
>>>>> If you wish to stay with Verizon as your carrier, you have a couple
>>>>> options. However, if you want an accessible calendar on your phone,
>>>>> you
>>>>> will need to invest in a smartphone.
>>>>> 1. The iPhone starting at $99. You stated earlier that the iPhone's
>>>>> touchscreen didn't really work for you. Frustration is understandable,
>>>>> there is a definite learning-curve with this device. There are
>>>>> numerous
>>>>> resources available on the Internet to help you get up and going with
>>>>> the
>>>>> phone. Also, the National Braille Press is currently revising their
>>>>> "getting started with the iPhone" book. The calendar on the iPhone is
>>>>> completely accessible, and offers the location features you asked
>>>>> about.
>>>>> 2. An Android phone. With the right software, Android is quite
>>>>> accessible.
>>>>> In adition, some of Verizon's droid phones come with dedicated
>>>>> physical
>>>>> keyboards. Mobile Accessibility from Code Factory for $99 makes
>>>>> Android
>>>>> quite accesible, and offers more options to customize the
>>>>> screen-reader
>>>>> than VoiceOver on the iPhone. It's not quite like the out-of-the-box
>>>>> experience of the iPhone, but with MA, many aps for Android are made
>>>>> accessible. Plus, you can often get Android devices for free or
>>>>> inexpensively with a two-year contract.
>>>>> I strongly encourage you to spend a good amount of time with either
>>>>> operating system, Verizon offers at least a 14-day return policy.
>>>>> I hope this helps, and feel free to email me off-list if you have
>>>>> additional questions.
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Matt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/6/2012 6:25 PM, Justin Young wrote:
>>>>>> Thanks a bunch for all of your feedback.  Who makes the Nokia N82/86?
>>>>>> That may be an optionworth at least looking at.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks again:)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>>>>>> Maybe a tactile overlay would help with the touch screen. I'm old
>>>>>>> fashioned
>>>>>>> and have a regular phone; it may have a calendar, but if it does it
>>>>>>> does
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> talk. It only talks when incoming calls come in. I
>>>>>>> use another calendar to stay organized. I wish NFB would push for
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> accessible phones. Come on, not everyone wants a smart phone;
>>>>>>> however,
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> would like access to the on screen menus; I want to know who called
>>>>>>> yesterday in my missed calls list; and I want to read texts. But No
>>>>>>> do
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> want the bells and whistles of the I phone.
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Katie Wang
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 2:05 PM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen,
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>>>>>>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>>>>>>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products.
>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>>>>>>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of
>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>>>>>>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>>>>>>> Katie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young<jty727 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>>>>>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my
>>>>>>>> Haven
>>>>>>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>>>>>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>>>>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not
>>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my
>>>>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible
>>>>>>>>> calender
>>>>>>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is
>>>>>>>>> non-touch
>>>>>>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>>>>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mgoalball%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>>>
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>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 02:18:23 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 21:18:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?
Message-ID: <4f581718.f21c340a.19d9.0e9f@mx.google.com>

So if someone went through  /ate libr>y or o!r ,newsl9e sponsor1 
wd ! pap] / h 6pay ! 4#ejjj fee8 I ask because I too would like 
to get my local paper, the Carroll County (Maryland) Times, or if 
nothing else the Frederick News Post, on Newsline.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 17:22:50 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?

Yes, papers are expensive and they need to make a profit.  By 
putting it on
newsline, they give it free to many subscribers; the money comes 
from
somewhere; plus the money to keep it running on newsline.

-----Original Message-----
From: josh gregory
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 4:51 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?

Uh...  $5000? Just for 1 paper?

On 3/4/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
 First, to get a paper on NFB Newsline, your state must be a
 sponsor.  If they are, they are the ones who will have to make 
the
 arrangements.  There is a one time setup fee, and an annual fee 
as
 well, for adding a paper, I believe both are $5000.

 Dave

 At 07:57 AM 3/4/2012, you wrote:
I had a question about Newsline, myself.
How can I get my state paper, (The Arkansas Democrat Gazette,) to 
them?
Also, (Chris,) what happened to the closing stuff, at the end of 
your
 E-mails?
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/4/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi Josh,

 As far as I know, the toll-free number for Newsline will work in 
any
 US state, including Hawaii.

 Chris

 On 3/4/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 I have a friend that would like to use nfb newsline.  He lives 
in
 Hawaii and is wondering if the toll free number would charge him 
or
 not, since Hawaii technically is not part of the continental us.  
I
 don't know myself so figured I'd ask.
 Thanks,
 Josh

 Sent From My iPhone

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:

 
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m%40gmail.com



 --
 Chris Nusbaum


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Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
Skype: joshgregory93
twitter: JoshG93

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 02:18:25 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 21:18:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] punnett squares
Message-ID: <4f581719.f21c340a.19d9.0ea0@mx.google.com>

Oh, wow; so you can do Punnett Squares in Excel and it's 
accessible?

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 14:28:48 -0800
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] punnett squares

Use Excel or a table in Microsoft Word.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 1:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] punnett squares


 Oh yeah! The only problem with that solution, Josh (and BTW, I 
did the
 same thing in bio last year, that is, my IA, instructional 
assistant,
 Brailled them for me) is when the teacher asks you on an 
assignment or
 test or something to actually make the punnet square from 
scratch.  Then
 you'd have to use a Brailler.

 Chris

 Chris Nusbaum
 Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
 dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
 Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

 "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real
 problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a
 blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness 
can be
 reduced to a mere physical nuisance."
 -- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 20:13:12 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] punnett squares

 Or just ask them to braille them out for you, that's what was 
done for
 me.  Took a while for me to get it, but I think the teacher said 
I was
 one of the few that actually got the concept.  Btw, brings back
 memories, Ashley.  :)

 On 2/27/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
 Hi,
 You cannot do punnet squares in a linear form on a braille note.  
Use a
 brailler; yes do them on graph paper or make the  squares 
tactilly
 somehow.
 I used large print.  But same concepts apply.  Punnet squares 
are a grid
 of
 squares.  So picture a small table.
 I believe they are two rows, two colums as  I recall.  You put 
two
 letters in each square to represent genes.
 I really hope I explain the representation right as its been 
years since
 bio
 for me.
 If you bring two of the same letters together, its homozygous.  
Note the
 capital or lowercase letters as I write.
 Capitals are dominant and lower case are recessive.
 Example:  bb for recessive brown eyes.
 Example B B for dominant blue eyes.

 If you have different case of letters, its hetro zygous.
 You look at the top letter and letter on the side to put the 
letters in
 the
 square.  For instance a Large P for dominant gene on top and on 
the side a
 small O for recessive gene.  So you write P O in the block.
 Quite hard to explain without showing you.  I suggest you ask 
your
 teachers
 for clarification.

 This video might help; maybe if you watch it with a sighted 
person they
 can
 help you understand it.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8SQAiVWw_s

 Ashley
 -----Original Message-----
 From: vejas
 Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 7:08 PM
 To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Subject: [nabs-l] punnett squares

 Hi,
 I am really, really, really confused with Punnett squares.  So I
 have some questions about them.

 First, to make them, should I use a Perkins Brailler? I do all 
my
 other science work, as well as for my other subjects except math
 homework, on my Braille-Note Apex.  Would a Perkins Brailler be
 better?
 Also, do you hand-make the grids? I have some graph paper from
 math that I might be able to use, but hand-making them might be
 easier.
 So can you please explain how to make a Punnett? Also, it would
 really help if you could additionally tell me how you learned
 Punnett squares because I'm really confused.
 Thank you for your time.  Attached to this email is a copy of 
the
 questions from the worksheet that I am supposed to do for
 homework.  Ignore Problem 10 and any others that you don't have
 to solve.
 Sincerely,

 Vejas






 _______________________________________________
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 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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 nabs-l:

 
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 0earthlink.net


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 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:

 
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 gmail.com



 --
 Sent via gmail.com
 Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
 Skype: joshgregory93
 twitter: JoshG93

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 nabs-l:
 
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 02:18:41 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 21:18:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] fw: [braillenote] off topic (CAE exam)
Message-ID: <4f58172a.f21c340a.19d9.0eb3@mx.google.com>

A friend of mine posted this message to the BrailleNote users 
list, since that is the only list she is on with people who might 
know something about this.  But I thought this list would be a 
good resource for her.  Can you help?

---- Original Message ------
From: Viridiana <vgr.09.15 at gmail.com
Subject: [Braillenote] off topic
Date sent: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 10:51:22 -0800

Hi everyone.  First of all I apologise for asking about things 
not
related to the braillenote but I'm in an emergency.  I am about 
to
take the CAE exam (certificate in advanced English which is
produced by Cambrige university), and I would like to practise a
bit more before it.  But I can't find any sample papers or
practice test on line.  If someone knows about this exam, I would
appreciate any help.  Just as a matter of information, I'm 
writing
from Mexico City.
Thank you very much.

___
Replies to this message will go directly to the sender.
If your reply would be useful to the list, please send a
copy to the list as well.

To leave the BrailleNote list, send a blank message to
braillenote-unsubscribe at list.humanware.com
To view the list archives or change your preferences, visit
http://list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote



From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 02:28:01 2012
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 18:28:01 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?
In-Reply-To: <4f581718.f21c340a.19d9.0e9f@mx.google.com>
References: <4f581718.f21c340a.19d9.0e9f@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <73558E221E7F4C698F8382A290E8159F@HUMBERTOAVILA>

Hello chris, I think you need to reset your braille note with a dot
combination or something. The first line or so came out with your grade 2
braille untranslated. That means, computer braille that looks like junk. If
you don't mind, just look at it. Just a heads up.  

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 6:18 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?

So if someone went through  /ate libr>y or o!r ,newsl9e sponsor1 
wd ! pap] / h 6pay ! 4#ejjj fee8 I ask because I too would like 
to get my local paper, the Carroll County (Maryland) Times, or if 
nothing else the Frederick News Post, on Newsline.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 17:22:50 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?

Yes, papers are expensive and they need to make a profit.  By 
putting it on
newsline, they give it free to many subscribers; the money comes 
from
somewhere; plus the money to keep it running on newsline.

-----Original Message-----
From: josh gregory
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 4:51 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?

Uh...  $5000? Just for 1 paper?

On 3/4/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
 First, to get a paper on NFB Newsline, your state must be a
 sponsor.  If they are, they are the ones who will have to make 
the
 arrangements.  There is a one time setup fee, and an annual fee 
as
 well, for adding a paper, I believe both are $5000.

 Dave

 At 07:57 AM 3/4/2012, you wrote:
I had a question about Newsline, myself.
How can I get my state paper, (The Arkansas Democrat Gazette,) to 
them?
Also, (Chris,) what happened to the closing stuff, at the end of 
your
 E-mails?
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/4/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi Josh,

 As far as I know, the toll-free number for Newsline will work in 
any
 US state, including Hawaii.

 Chris

 On 3/4/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 I have a friend that would like to use nfb newsline.  He lives 
in
 Hawaii and is wondering if the toll free number would charge him 
or
 not, since Hawaii technically is not part of the continental us.  
I
 don't know myself so figured I'd ask.
 Thanks,
 Josh

 Sent From My iPhone

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:

 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com



 --
 Chris Nusbaum


 _______________________________________________
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 nabs-l:
 
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Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
Skype: joshgregory93
twitter: JoshG93

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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Thu Mar  8 02:36:15 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 18:36:15 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] punnett squares
References: <4f581719.f21c340a.19d9.0ea0@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <79B995F53A934948965815BE1FAE838D@stanford.edu>

Yes. I will email anyone who wants it one that I did. I have to warn you, 
though, that it is three traits instead of two, so it might be harder to 
understand. I did it kind of as a how far can you go thing in one of my 
science classes in junior high. That being said, you may have to do a few on 
paper before you get the grasp of it enough to do it on a computer. I am 
very good at spatial things, so what worked for me may not always work for 
others.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] punnett squares


> Oh, wow; so you can do Punnett Squares in Excel and it's accessible?
>
> Chris
>
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The real 
> problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists.  If a 
> blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can be 
> reduced to a mere physical nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 14:28:48 -0800
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] punnett squares
>
> Use Excel or a table in Microsoft Word.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 1:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] punnett squares
>
>
> Oh yeah! The only problem with that solution, Josh (and BTW, I did the
> same thing in bio last year, that is, my IA, instructional assistant,
> Brailled them for me) is when the teacher asks you on an assignment or
> test or something to actually make the punnet square from scratch.  Then
> you'd have to use a Brailler.
>
> Chris
>
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The real
> problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists.  If a
> blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can be
> reduced to a mere physical nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 20:13:12 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] punnett squares
>
> Or just ask them to braille them out for you, that's what was done for
> me.  Took a while for me to get it, but I think the teacher said I was
> one of the few that actually got the concept.  Btw, brings back
> memories, Ashley.  :)
>
> On 2/27/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> You cannot do punnet squares in a linear form on a braille note.  Use a
> brailler; yes do them on graph paper or make the  squares tactilly
> somehow.
> I used large print.  But same concepts apply.  Punnet squares are a grid
> of
> squares.  So picture a small table.
> I believe they are two rows, two colums as  I recall.  You put two
> letters in each square to represent genes.
> I really hope I explain the representation right as its been years since
> bio
> for me.
> If you bring two of the same letters together, its homozygous.  Note the
> capital or lowercase letters as I write.
> Capitals are dominant and lower case are recessive.
> Example:  bb for recessive brown eyes.
> Example B B for dominant blue eyes.
>
> If you have different case of letters, its hetro zygous.
> You look at the top letter and letter on the side to put the letters in
> the
> square.  For instance a Large P for dominant gene on top and on the side a
> small O for recessive gene.  So you write P O in the block.
> Quite hard to explain without showing you.  I suggest you ask your
> teachers
> for clarification.
>
> This video might help; maybe if you watch it with a sighted person they
> can
> help you understand it.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8SQAiVWw_s
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vejas
> Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 7:08 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] punnett squares
>
> Hi,
> I am really, really, really confused with Punnett squares.  So I
> have some questions about them.
>
> First, to make them, should I use a Perkins Brailler? I do all my
> other science work, as well as for my other subjects except math
> homework, on my Braille-Note Apex.  Would a Perkins Brailler be
> better?
> Also, do you hand-make the grids? I have some graph paper from
> math that I might be able to use, but hand-making them might be
> easier.
> So can you please explain how to make a Punnett? Also, it would
> really help if you could additionally tell me how you learned
> Punnett squares because I'm really confused.
> Thank you for your time.  Attached to this email is a copy of the
> questions from the worksheet that I am supposed to do for
> homework.  Ignore Problem 10 and any others that you don't have
> to solve.
> Sincerely,
>
> Vejas
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
> 0earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
> gmail.com
>
>
>
> --
> Sent via gmail.com
> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
> Skype: joshgregory93
> twitter: JoshG93
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
> wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu Mar  8 03:51:42 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 22:51:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] fw: [braillenote] off topic (CAE exam)
In-Reply-To: <4f58172a.f21c340a.19d9.0eb3@mx.google.com>
References: <4f58172a.f21c340a.19d9.0eb3@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <A8329D9FFB0D4D4096A500E0CC455D37@OwnerPC>

never heard of that exam.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:18 PM
To: NFB NABS list
Cc: vgr.09.15 at gmail.com
Subject: [nabs-l] fw: [braillenote] off topic (CAE exam)

A friend of mine posted this message to the BrailleNote users
list, since that is the only list she is on with people who might
know something about this.  But I thought this list would be a
good resource for her.  Can you help?

---- Original Message ------
From: Viridiana <vgr.09.15 at gmail.com
Subject: [Braillenote] off topic
Date sent: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 10:51:22 -0800

Hi everyone.  First of all I apologise for asking about things
not
related to the braillenote but I'm in an emergency.  I am about
to
take the CAE exam (certificate in advanced English which is
produced by Cambrige university), and I would like to practise a
bit more before it.  But I can't find any sample papers or
practice test on line.  If someone knows about this exam, I would
appreciate any help.  Just as a matter of information, I'm
writing
from Mexico City.
Thank you very much.

___
Replies to this message will go directly to the sender.
If your reply would be useful to the list, please send a
copy to the list as well.

To leave the BrailleNote list, send a blank message to
braillenote-unsubscribe at list.humanware.com
To view the list archives or change your preferences, visit
http://list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote


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From clb5590 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 04:14:28 2012
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 22:14:28 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
In-Reply-To: <67AC9904-32CF-42B8-9312-54917640D0FC@cox.net>
References: <72F843C1-85A6-4412-A634-1D9AD64E1215@cox.net>
	<4D7535B4BF3D47C9B598604F19F928FF@stanford.edu>
	<CAHEy+8WOoArv3JrRz0sGxD-7hShoMN7EQ_uTxkMqHpoG3Zct8A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJC+jYyDSG-VvQjsu-DjmQ5L6znt7eEjcAJ__ccLe6sxhw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D00C8028070F436E94CCE9AC5874823E@userPC>
	<67AC9904-32CF-42B8-9312-54917640D0FC@cox.net>
Message-ID: <CACUFQdwO0vE8VpraB1SDJfhJQMidzLLH3U9_hiN1OoUKsA3OVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Press f5 to start the slide show. Presss space to go to the next slide
and backspace to go to the previous slide. I thought you could move
line by line and word by word and such, but I don't have a lot of
experience. You can tab and shift tab between objects. An object on a
slide might be a table, a block of text, or the slide's title. When
you're editing a PowerPoint, you use f6 and shift f6 to move between
the ribbons, the slide areas, where you type the contents of the
slides, and the list of slides.

I actually like PowerPoint. I think it is an essential skill if you
are going to give presentations, which almost everyone will have to.
It is more accessible than it used to be, but I am annoyed that the
formatting is different from options in Ms word. For example, you
choose schemes instead of individual fonts and colors, and the names
of the schemes do not indicate what they look like, so I don't trust
my judgment on choosing one.

Arielle: I love that feature of Gmail, but I have found that I can't
count on it. Maybe PowerPoints are better, but I know that many PDF's
I encountered would not show up as text in the quick view.

I do have a question though. In Office 2007, there was a way to save
PowerPoints into word documents. There were options such as showing
the entire slides, or putting it into a bulletted outline view. I have
not found this in 2010. I know that you can save as to an outline in
RTF, but it isn't as clean as the Ms outlines used to be, so I am
curious if that option is somewhere else in the menus that I just
haven't found yet. Thoughts?

Cindy

On 3/6/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
> Thanks very much.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 6, 2012, at 9:12 PM, "Rania Ismail CMT" <raniaismail04 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Wow! I didn't know you could do that with gmail! I just had my teachers
>> email the power points as attachments and than I saved them to my laptop
>> and
>> opened the powerpoint and read one slide at a time. Thanks for the tip
>> with
>> gmail.
>> Rania,
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Arielle Silverman
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:59 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
>>
>> Hi Kayla,
>> If your teacher emails you a PowerPoint, you can save it as an outline
>> (RTF) file and then open it with Microsoft Word to read the text. You
>> can also read text directly on PowerPoint slides by opening the
>> presentation and using tab to get into the body of the slide and then
>> Page Down to go to the next slide. The problem is that in PowerPoint
>> you have to read the whole slide at once instead of reading by line or
>> paragraph like you can do in Word.
>> Finally, for those of you who have Gmail, if someone emails you a
>> PowerPoint or PDF document, instead of saving it, click "view as HTML"
>> and the text will appear in a user-friendly, easily searchable form,
>> like a website without any links.  Note this does not work for scanned
>> PDF's, but it does work for electronically generated PDF's (like those
>> you might get from your disability office), PowerPoints, and Word
>> documents. This is how I read almost all the class handouts and
>> presentations I receive from other people. In fact, if you don't have
>> a Gmail account yet, I would suggest getting one for just this
>> purpose.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 3/6/12, jonathan franks <franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> When I learned a brief introduction to powerpoint in 2008, my teacher
>>> claimed it wasn't very jaws accessible. Have they made improvements,
>>> so that it is jaws accessible. I have a feeling I might need to learn
>>> and use it at some point in my college career.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kayla.mattox%40cox.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cindy Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Thu Mar  8 04:44:50 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 20:44:50 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
References: <72F843C1-85A6-4412-A634-1D9AD64E1215@cox.net><4D7535B4BF3D47C9B598604F19F928FF@stanford.edu><CAHEy+8WOoArv3JrRz0sGxD-7hShoMN7EQ_uTxkMqHpoG3Zct8A@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJC+jYyDSG-VvQjsu-DjmQ5L6znt7eEjcAJ__ccLe6sxhw@mail.gmail.com><D00C8028070F436E94CCE9AC5874823E@userPC><67AC9904-32CF-42B8-9312-54917640D0FC@cox.net>
	<CACUFQdwO0vE8VpraB1SDJfhJQMidzLLH3U9_hiN1OoUKsA3OVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <323F44EE4B854AED9CAC8D2D6F3A210F@stanford.edu>

You can also put it in outline mode and read it like a regular text 
document, but I don't remember the keystroke for it.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cindy Bennett" <clb5590 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws


> Press f5 to start the slide show. Presss space to go to the next slide
> and backspace to go to the previous slide. I thought you could move
> line by line and word by word and such, but I don't have a lot of
> experience. You can tab and shift tab between objects. An object on a
> slide might be a table, a block of text, or the slide's title. When
> you're editing a PowerPoint, you use f6 and shift f6 to move between
> the ribbons, the slide areas, where you type the contents of the
> slides, and the list of slides.
>
> I actually like PowerPoint. I think it is an essential skill if you
> are going to give presentations, which almost everyone will have to.
> It is more accessible than it used to be, but I am annoyed that the
> formatting is different from options in Ms word. For example, you
> choose schemes instead of individual fonts and colors, and the names
> of the schemes do not indicate what they look like, so I don't trust
> my judgment on choosing one.
>
> Arielle: I love that feature of Gmail, but I have found that I can't
> count on it. Maybe PowerPoints are better, but I know that many PDF's
> I encountered would not show up as text in the quick view.
>
> I do have a question though. In Office 2007, there was a way to save
> PowerPoints into word documents. There were options such as showing
> the entire slides, or putting it into a bulletted outline view. I have
> not found this in 2010. I know that you can save as to an outline in
> RTF, but it isn't as clean as the Ms outlines used to be, so I am
> curious if that option is somewhere else in the menus that I just
> haven't found yet. Thoughts?
>
> Cindy
>
> On 3/6/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>> Thanks very much.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 6, 2012, at 9:12 PM, "Rania Ismail CMT" <raniaismail04 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Wow! I didn't know you could do that with gmail! I just had my teachers
>>> email the power points as attachments and than I saved them to my laptop
>>> and
>>> opened the powerpoint and read one slide at a time. Thanks for the tip
>>> with
>>> gmail.
>>> Rania,
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Arielle Silverman
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:59 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
>>>
>>> Hi Kayla,
>>> If your teacher emails you a PowerPoint, you can save it as an outline
>>> (RTF) file and then open it with Microsoft Word to read the text. You
>>> can also read text directly on PowerPoint slides by opening the
>>> presentation and using tab to get into the body of the slide and then
>>> Page Down to go to the next slide. The problem is that in PowerPoint
>>> you have to read the whole slide at once instead of reading by line or
>>> paragraph like you can do in Word.
>>> Finally, for those of you who have Gmail, if someone emails you a
>>> PowerPoint or PDF document, instead of saving it, click "view as HTML"
>>> and the text will appear in a user-friendly, easily searchable form,
>>> like a website without any links.  Note this does not work for scanned
>>> PDF's, but it does work for electronically generated PDF's (like those
>>> you might get from your disability office), PowerPoints, and Word
>>> documents. This is how I read almost all the class handouts and
>>> presentations I receive from other people. In fact, if you don't have
>>> a Gmail account yet, I would suggest getting one for just this
>>> purpose.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 3/6/12, jonathan franks <franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> When I learned a brief introduction to powerpoint in 2008, my teacher
>>>> claimed it wasn't very jaws accessible. Have they made improvements,
>>>> so that it is jaws accessible. I have a feeling I might need to learn
>>>> and use it at some point in my college career.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co
>>> m
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kayla.mattox%40cox.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Cindy Bennett
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> 828.989.5383
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From brlsurfer at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 04:49:17 2012
From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 20:49:17 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
Message-ID: <4f583a59.4625340a.2bb4.2456@mx.google.com>

Kayla,
My brailleist gets rid of pictures then sends it to me text-only 
as a Microsoft Word File.
Vejas


 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 20:44:50 -0800
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws

You can also put it in outline mode and read it like a regular 
text
document, but I don't remember the keystroke for it.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cindy Bennett" <clb5590 at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 8:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws


 Press f5 to start the slide show.  Presss space to go to the 
next slide
 and backspace to go to the previous slide.  I thought you could 
move
 line by line and word by word and such, but I don't have a lot 
of
 experience.  You can tab and shift tab between objects.  An 
object on a
 slide might be a table, a block of text, or the slide's title.  
When
 you're editing a PowerPoint, you use f6 and shift f6 to move 
between
 the ribbons, the slide areas, where you type the contents of the
 slides, and the list of slides.

 I actually like PowerPoint.  I think it is an essential skill if 
you
 are going to give presentations, which almost everyone will have 
to.
 It is more accessible than it used to be, but I am annoyed that 
the
 formatting is different from options in Ms word.  For example, 
you
 choose schemes instead of individual fonts and colors, and the 
names
 of the schemes do not indicate what they look like, so I don't 
trust
 my judgment on choosing one.

 Arielle: I love that feature of Gmail, but I have found that I 
can't
 count on it.  Maybe PowerPoints are better, but I know that many 
PDF's
 I encountered would not show up as text in the quick view.

 I do have a question though.  In Office 2007, there was a way to 
save
 PowerPoints into word documents.  There were options such as 
showing
 the entire slides, or putting it into a bulletted outline view.  
I have
 not found this in 2010.  I know that you can save as to an 
outline in
 RTF, but it isn't as clean as the Ms outlines used to be, so I 
am
 curious if that option is somewhere else in the menus that I 
just
 haven't found yet.  Thoughts?

 Cindy

 On 3/6/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
 Thanks very much.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On Mar 6, 2012, at 9:12 PM, "Rania Ismail CMT" 
<raniaismail04 at gmail.com
 wrote:

 Wow! I didn't know you could do that with gmail! I just had my 
teachers
 email the power points as attachments and than I saved them to 
my laptop
 and
 opened the powerpoint and read one slide at a time.  Thanks for 
the tip
 with
 gmail.
 Rania,

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
 Behalf
 Of Arielle Silverman
 Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:59 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws

 Hi Kayla,
 If your teacher emails you a PowerPoint, you can save it as an 
outline
 (RTF) file and then open it with Microsoft Word to read the 
text.  You
 can also read text directly on PowerPoint slides by opening the
 presentation and using tab to get into the body of the slide and 
then
 Page Down to go to the next slide.  The problem is that in 
PowerPoint
 you have to read the whole slide at once instead of reading by 
line or
 paragraph like you can do in Word.
 Finally, for those of you who have Gmail, if someone emails you 
a
 PowerPoint or PDF document, instead of saving it, click "view as 
HTML"
 and the text will appear in a user-friendly, easily searchable 
form,
 like a website without any links.  Note this does not work for 
scanned
 PDF's, but it does work for electronically generated PDF's (like 
those
 you might get from your disability office), PowerPoints, and 
Word
 documents.  This is how I read almost all the class handouts and
 presentations I receive from other people.  In fact, if you 
don't have
 a Gmail account yet, I would suggest getting one for just this
 purpose.
 Arielle

 On 3/6/12, jonathan franks <franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com> wrote:
 When I learned a brief introduction to powerpoint in 2008, my 
teacher
 claimed it wasn't very jaws accessible.  Have they made 
improvements,
 so that it is jaws accessible.  I have a feeling I might need to 
learn
 and use it at some point in my college career.

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
mail.com


 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04
%40gmail.co
 m


 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kayla.mattox%
40cox.net

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
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il.com



 --
 Cindy Bennett
 B.A.  Psychology, UNC Wilmington

 clb5590 at gmail.com
 828.989.5383

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
wavecable.com


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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mail.com


From brlsurfer at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 05:14:23 2012
From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas)
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 21:14:23 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
Message-ID: <4f58403c.6745340a.5171.247f@mx.google.com>

Hi,
I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.  
My teacher is OK, I guess.
Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help me, 
so I don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have 
not helped.
Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers loves 
the way diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? 
How was a sighter person able to help you, because it's sometimes 
hard to explain stuff you need? I have a test tomorrow.
Thanks for any input.
Vejas


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Thu Mar  8 05:52:15 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
References: <4f58403c.6745340a.5171.247f@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <24D5BDFF58A34E878313C604D78986E8@stanford.edu>

Some diagrams can help and others don't. If a diagram is too cluttered, then 
it is no good. Can you explain more about why diagrams don't help you?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring


> Hi,
> I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.  My 
> teacher is OK, I guess.
> Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help me, so I 
> don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not helped.
> Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers loves the way 
> diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was a sighter 
> person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain stuff you 
> need? I have a test tomorrow.
> Thanks for any input.
> Vejas
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From aubielynn at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 05:56:39 2012
From: aubielynn at gmail.com (Aubrie Lucas)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 20:56:39 -0900
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
In-Reply-To: <4f58403c.6745340a.5171.247f@mx.google.com>
References: <4f58403c.6745340a.5171.247f@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <001801ccfcf0$3cccb120$b6661360$@com>

Vejas,
I took biology last year. I found that some of the diagrams I was given were
helpful, but whether I found them helpful or not, I made sure to look over
them. Are you reading your textbook? I found that helped a lot. Does your
teacher only use diagrams to explain things? If not, you should be taking
good notes.
I hope this helps,
Aubrie

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of vejas
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 8:14 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org; blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Hi,
I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.  
My teacher is OK, I guess.
Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help me, so I don't
bother to look at them because when I have, they have not helped.
Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers loves the way
diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? 
How was a sighter person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to
explain stuff you need? I have a test tomorrow.
Thanks for any input.
Vejas

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From daviddod at buffalo.edu  Thu Mar  8 05:58:30 2012
From: daviddod at buffalo.edu (David Dodge)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 00:58:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
In-Reply-To: <24D5BDFF58A34E878313C604D78986E8@stanford.edu>
References: <4f58403c.6745340a.5171.247f@mx.google.com>
	<24D5BDFF58A34E878313C604D78986E8@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <CAGiF6MEsBfoqq0marGQdkvz-fcML9oi0N+Y6qgdGvVt1r0Pxhg@mail.gmail.com>

Sometimes, diagrams are useful and at other times they are not. Do not
dismiss them always just because they do not always work. Try to see if
they are helpful first and if not you need to find an alternate way of
understanding the material.

Some alternate ways of understanding the material include: asking someone
to explain it to you, reading paragraphs in the textbook, and asking the
teacher to explain it in a different way that doesn't include diagramming.

Tutoring is never a bad idea as long as the tutor and person being tutored
are both committed. If blind people can tutor sighted people then sighted
people can tutor blind people successfully too.

David
----------------------------------
David Dodge
Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson
Alternative Break Program Student Logistical Coordinator
English Major
University at Buffalo
306 Clemens Hall
Buffalo, NY 14260
daviddod at buffalo.edu


On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 12:52 AM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <
ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:

> Some diagrams can help and others don't. If a diagram is too cluttered,
> then it is no good. Can you explain more about why diagrams don't help you?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
>
>  Hi,
>> I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.  My
>> teacher is OK, I guess.
>> Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help me, so I
>> don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not helped.
>> Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers loves the way
>> diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was a sighter
>> person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain stuff you
>> need? I have a test tomorrow.
>> Thanks for any input.
>> Vejas
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>> ntorcolini%40wavecable.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com>
>>
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
> daviddod%40buffalo.edu<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daviddod%40buffalo.edu>
>

From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Thu Mar  8 06:02:47 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 22:02:47 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
References: <4f58403c.6745340a.5171.247f@mx.google.com><24D5BDFF58A34E878313C604D78986E8@stanford.edu>
	<CAGiF6MEsBfoqq0marGQdkvz-fcML9oi0N+Y6qgdGvVt1r0Pxhg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <24A191B45F514B6D9A7591BC82236C3D@stanford.edu>

Oh, and one other thing that I forgot. Sometimes, diagrams are hard to 
understand, especially if they are trying to depict something in 3D. In 
these cases, it might be better to try to use some kind of model. Models 
don't have to be fancy; they can be constructed out of anything.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Dodge" <daviddod at buffalo.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring


> Sometimes, diagrams are useful and at other times they are not. Do not
> dismiss them always just because they do not always work. Try to see if
> they are helpful first and if not you need to find an alternate way of
> understanding the material.
>
> Some alternate ways of understanding the material include: asking someone
> to explain it to you, reading paragraphs in the textbook, and asking the
> teacher to explain it in a different way that doesn't include diagramming.
>
> Tutoring is never a bad idea as long as the tutor and person being tutored
> are both committed. If blind people can tutor sighted people then sighted
> people can tutor blind people successfully too.
>
> David
> ----------------------------------
> David Dodge
> Diversity in Disability Planning Committee Chairperson
> Alternative Break Program Student Logistical Coordinator
> English Major
> University at Buffalo
> 306 Clemens Hall
> Buffalo, NY 14260
> daviddod at buffalo.edu
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 12:52 AM, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <
> ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>
>> Some diagrams can help and others don't. If a diagram is too cluttered,
>> then it is no good. Can you explain more about why diagrams don't help 
>> you?
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com>
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>>
>>  Hi,
>>> I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.  My
>>> teacher is OK, I guess.
>>> Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help me, so I
>>> don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not helped.
>>> Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers loves the way
>>> diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was a sighter
>>> person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain stuff 
>>> you
>>> need? I have a test tomorrow.
>>> Thanks for any input.
>>> Vejas
>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>>> ntorcolini%40wavecable.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>> daviddod%40buffalo.edu<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/daviddod%40buffalo.edu>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Thu Mar  8 14:36:24 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 08:36:24 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Great school news!
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvXk7Prw_5=byD4NZqYAty=tUWFbMNcyxXfF8O9CVFv7Q@mail.gmail.com>

Things are starting to go my way!
After 2, and a half years of attending Phillips Community College, I'm
finally going to have Braille books, starting this Fall!
I did some research, and found Midwestern Braille Volunteers, (thanks
in part, to a member of this list,) and I found out, that my VR
counselor can pay them for my books!
Now, let's hope I can get a good deal, on a notetaker, at convention!


From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 15:02:59 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 09:02:59 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com><7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC><CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com><CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com><6793C73F22564605866F718F2E660D8C@OwnerPC><CA+3U9s7L7h-GtfWcNGSPcKQdNXrbn9yE99RP8CU0=mBGFnKK5w@mail.gmail.com><4F56AF34.60802@gmail.com>
	<-7079707465848573922@unknownmsgid>
	<CA+6VNgNLPxG66W98pgei56yXUUq7b5gtKvBDYN++2E0WX_HqHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ACBCC44F12CF4114A550F6CAB18A01F5@Gloria>

Hi,
I have used the HTC Ozone and it is avalible at verizon wireless
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Katie Wang" <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 12:02 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender


>I spoke with At&T a little less than a year ago when I was hunting for
> my current phone, and apparently they no longer sold any of the Nokia
> phones that work with Mobile Speak. I got my Nokia E75 from an on-line
> electronic retailer, which was quite an additional investment, but it
> has served me very well. To clarify my previous comment, I'm sure
> Nokia Symbian phones (the product series that supports Talks and
> Mobile Speak) are still being made and sold in  some countries, but we
> can no longer get them through any of the US carriers, and I believe
> that the same is true for Windows Mobile smart phones such as the HTC
> Ozone. If you are really not ready for a touch-screen device and are
> not interested in doing much web browsing/emailing on your phone
> anyway, then getting a phone through a third-party vendor on-line and
> have Verizon subsidize you for the purchase of Mobile Speak may be the
> way to go. Good luck!
> Katie
>
>
> On 3/6/12, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
>> AT&T definitely sells some subsidized Nokia phones. At least they did
>> not too long ago...
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 6, 2012, at 7:44 PM, Matt McCubbin <mgoalball at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Justin,
>>> Nokia is the manufacturer of the N82/N86. However, these phones won't be
>>> compatible with Verizon's CDMA network technology. You would have to
>>> switch to AT&T or TMobile to use these phones.
>>> Also, Nokia phones aren't sold through any of the major US carriers, so
>>> you would need to purchase one at a much higher cost, either new from an
>>> electronics retailer, or used.
>>> If you wish to stay with Verizon as your carrier, you have a couple
>>> options. However, if you want an accessible calendar on your phone, you
>>> will need to invest in a smartphone.
>>> 1. The iPhone starting at $99. You stated earlier that the iPhone's
>>> touchscreen didn't really work for you. Frustration is understandable,
>>> there is a definite learning-curve with this device. There are numerous
>>> resources available on the Internet to help you get up and going with 
>>> the
>>> phone. Also, the National Braille Press is currently revising their
>>> "getting started with the iPhone" book. The calendar on the iPhone is
>>> completely accessible, and offers the location features you asked about.
>>> 2. An Android phone. With the right software, Android is quite 
>>> accessible.
>>> In adition, some of Verizon's droid phones come with dedicated physical
>>> keyboards. Mobile Accessibility from Code Factory for $99 makes Android
>>> quite accesible, and offers more options to customize the screen-reader
>>> than VoiceOver on the iPhone. It's not quite like the out-of-the-box
>>> experience of the iPhone, but with MA, many aps for Android are made
>>> accessible. Plus, you can often get Android devices for free or
>>> inexpensively with a two-year contract.
>>> I strongly encourage you to spend a good amount of time with either
>>> operating system, Verizon offers at least a 14-day return policy.
>>> I hope this helps, and feel free to email me off-list if you have
>>> additional questions.
>>> Best regards,
>>> Matt
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/6/2012 6:25 PM, Justin Young wrote:
>>>> Thanks a bunch for all of your feedback.  Who makes the Nokia N82/86?
>>>> That may be an optionworth at least looking at.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again:)
>>>>
>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>>>> Maybe a tactile overlay would help with the touch screen. I'm old
>>>>> fashioned
>>>>> and have a regular phone; it may have a calendar, but if it does it 
>>>>> does
>>>>> not
>>>>> talk. It only talks when incoming calls come in. I
>>>>> use another calendar to stay organized. I wish NFB would push for more
>>>>> accessible phones. Come on, not everyone wants a smart phone; however, 
>>>>> I
>>>>> would like access to the on screen menus; I want to know who called
>>>>> yesterday in my missed calls list; and I want to read texts. But No do
>>>>> not
>>>>> want the bells and whistles of the I phone.
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Katie Wang
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 2:05 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>>>>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>>>>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>>>>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>>>>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>>>>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>>>>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>>>>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>>>>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>>>>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>>>>> Katie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young<jty727 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>>>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>>>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>>>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>>>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not
>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my 
>>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible 
>>>>>>> calender
>>>>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is 
>>>>>>> non-touch
>>>>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mgoalball%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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> 



From jty727 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 15:35:08 2012
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 10:35:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <ACBCC44F12CF4114A550F6CAB18A01F5@Gloria>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<6793C73F22564605866F718F2E660D8C@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s7L7h-GtfWcNGSPcKQdNXrbn9yE99RP8CU0=mBGFnKK5w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4F56AF34.60802@gmail.com> <-7079707465848573922@unknownmsgid>
	<CA+6VNgNLPxG66W98pgei56yXUUq7b5gtKvBDYN++2E0WX_HqHg@mail.gmail.com>
	<ACBCC44F12CF4114A550F6CAB18A01F5@Gloria>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s579Z4eLAxTAWtcJuur9_UQZzJpGHPieDtd2M8-Z=7kxg@mail.gmail.com>

Okay.  I'll be looking into a few options:)

On 3/8/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I have used the HTC Ozone and it is avalible at verizon wireless
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Katie Wang" <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 12:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>
>
>>I spoke with At&T a little less than a year ago when I was hunting for
>> my current phone, and apparently they no longer sold any of the Nokia
>> phones that work with Mobile Speak. I got my Nokia E75 from an on-line
>> electronic retailer, which was quite an additional investment, but it
>> has served me very well. To clarify my previous comment, I'm sure
>> Nokia Symbian phones (the product series that supports Talks and
>> Mobile Speak) are still being made and sold in  some countries, but we
>> can no longer get them through any of the US carriers, and I believe
>> that the same is true for Windows Mobile smart phones such as the HTC
>> Ozone. If you are really not ready for a touch-screen device and are
>> not interested in doing much web browsing/emailing on your phone
>> anyway, then getting a phone through a third-party vendor on-line and
>> have Verizon subsidize you for the purchase of Mobile Speak may be the
>> way to go. Good luck!
>> Katie
>>
>>
>> On 3/6/12, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> AT&T definitely sells some subsidized Nokia phones. At least they did
>>> not too long ago...
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 6, 2012, at 7:44 PM, Matt McCubbin <mgoalball at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Justin,
>>>> Nokia is the manufacturer of the N82/N86. However, these phones won't be
>>>> compatible with Verizon's CDMA network technology. You would have to
>>>> switch to AT&T or TMobile to use these phones.
>>>> Also, Nokia phones aren't sold through any of the major US carriers, so
>>>> you would need to purchase one at a much higher cost, either new from an
>>>> electronics retailer, or used.
>>>> If you wish to stay with Verizon as your carrier, you have a couple
>>>> options. However, if you want an accessible calendar on your phone, you
>>>> will need to invest in a smartphone.
>>>> 1. The iPhone starting at $99. You stated earlier that the iPhone's
>>>> touchscreen didn't really work for you. Frustration is understandable,
>>>> there is a definite learning-curve with this device. There are numerous
>>>> resources available on the Internet to help you get up and going with
>>>> the
>>>> phone. Also, the National Braille Press is currently revising their
>>>> "getting started with the iPhone" book. The calendar on the iPhone is
>>>> completely accessible, and offers the location features you asked about.
>>>> 2. An Android phone. With the right software, Android is quite
>>>> accessible.
>>>> In adition, some of Verizon's droid phones come with dedicated physical
>>>> keyboards. Mobile Accessibility from Code Factory for $99 makes Android
>>>> quite accesible, and offers more options to customize the screen-reader
>>>> than VoiceOver on the iPhone. It's not quite like the out-of-the-box
>>>> experience of the iPhone, but with MA, many aps for Android are made
>>>> accessible. Plus, you can often get Android devices for free or
>>>> inexpensively with a two-year contract.
>>>> I strongly encourage you to spend a good amount of time with either
>>>> operating system, Verizon offers at least a 14-day return policy.
>>>> I hope this helps, and feel free to email me off-list if you have
>>>> additional questions.
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Matt
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/6/2012 6:25 PM, Justin Young wrote:
>>>>> Thanks a bunch for all of your feedback.  Who makes the Nokia N82/86?
>>>>> That may be an optionworth at least looking at.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks again:)
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>>>>> Maybe a tactile overlay would help with the touch screen. I'm old
>>>>>> fashioned
>>>>>> and have a regular phone; it may have a calendar, but if it does it
>>>>>> does
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> talk. It only talks when incoming calls come in. I
>>>>>> use another calendar to stay organized. I wish NFB would push for more
>>>>>> accessible phones. Come on, not everyone wants a smart phone; however,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> would like access to the on screen menus; I want to know who called
>>>>>> yesterday in my missed calls list; and I want to read texts. But No do
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> want the bells and whistles of the I phone.
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Katie Wang
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 2:05 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>>>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>>>>>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>>>>>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>>>>>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>>>>>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>>>>>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>>>>>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>>>>>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>>>>>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>>>>>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>>>>>> Katie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young<jty727 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>>>>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>>>>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>>>>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>>>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not
>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>>>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my
>>>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible
>>>>>>>> calender
>>>>>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is
>>>>>>>> non-touch
>>>>>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>>>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mgoalball%40gmail.com
>>>>
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>>>
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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From zach2012 at chickerland.com  Thu Mar  8 18:24:20 2012
From: zach2012 at chickerland.com (Zach)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 11:24:20 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Great school news!
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOvXk7Prw_5=byD4NZqYAty=tUWFbMNcyxXfF8O9CVFv7Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO83KOvXk7Prw_5=byD4NZqYAty=tUWFbMNcyxXfF8O9CVFv7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <024FBBD1062C44E5B07EF4BCFE01B6DB@ZachlaptopPC>

flying blind is selling some BSP's for $3500! I'd check top tech tidbits.



Zach Griego-Dreicer
Email: zach2012 at chickerland.com
Skype and Twitter: Chickerland
Facebook profile: http://www.facebook.com/chickerland or find me using this 
email address.
-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 7:36 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Great school news!

Things are starting to go my way!
After 2, and a half years of attending Phillips Community College, I'm
finally going to have Braille books, starting this Fall!
I did some research, and found Midwestern Braille Volunteers, (thanks
in part, to a member of this list,) and I found out, that my VR
counselor can pay them for my books!
Now, let's hope I can get a good deal, on a notetaker, at convention!

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zach2012%40chickerland.com 



From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 19:18:20 2012
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 14:18:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Great school news!
In-Reply-To: <024FBBD1062C44E5B07EF4BCFE01B6DB@ZachlaptopPC>
References: <CAO83KOvXk7Prw_5=byD4NZqYAty=tUWFbMNcyxXfF8O9CVFv7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<024FBBD1062C44E5B07EF4BCFE01B6DB@ZachlaptopPC>
Message-ID: <CABORmNtE0uztpOCJ7G052GaWjCjgeq_r5umoK--Xr81Ezuec7g@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Joshua,
I am glad that you are finally getting what you need to do your best
in school. I hope things go smoother now that you'll have Braille
textbooks. Keep us updated on it!

~Jewel

On 3/8/12, Zach <zach2012 at chickerland.com> wrote:
> flying blind is selling some BSP's for $3500! I'd check top tech tidbits.
>
>
>
> Zach Griego-Dreicer
> Email: zach2012 at chickerland.com
> Skype and Twitter: Chickerland
> Facebook profile: http://www.facebook.com/chickerland or find me using this
> email address.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 7:36 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Great school news!
>
> Things are starting to go my way!
> After 2, and a half years of attending Phillips Community College, I'm
> finally going to have Braille books, starting this Fall!
> I did some research, and found Midwestern Braille Volunteers, (thanks
> in part, to a member of this list,) and I found out, that my VR
> counselor can pay them for my books!
> Now, let's hope I can get a good deal, on a notetaker, at convention!
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zach2012%40chickerland.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Thu Mar  8 19:40:17 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 13:40:17 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Great school news!
In-Reply-To: <CABORmNtE0uztpOCJ7G052GaWjCjgeq_r5umoK--Xr81Ezuec7g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO83KOvXk7Prw_5=byD4NZqYAty=tUWFbMNcyxXfF8O9CVFv7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<024FBBD1062C44E5B07EF4BCFE01B6DB@ZachlaptopPC>
	<CABORmNtE0uztpOCJ7G052GaWjCjgeq_r5umoK--Xr81Ezuec7g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOuY42VZWu=iH0TF6CvYB7H5d4JL5tCj49_C0iQL7PMKvw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jewel!
I will!
Will you be at convention, this year?
Maybe, you could help me find a good deal on a notetaker.
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/8/12, Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Joshua,
> I am glad that you are finally getting what you need to do your best
> in school. I hope things go smoother now that you'll have Braille
> textbooks. Keep us updated on it!
>
> ~Jewel
>
> On 3/8/12, Zach <zach2012 at chickerland.com> wrote:
>> flying blind is selling some BSP's for $3500! I'd check top tech tidbits.
>>
>>
>>
>> Zach Griego-Dreicer
>> Email: zach2012 at chickerland.com
>> Skype and Twitter: Chickerland
>> Facebook profile: http://www.facebook.com/chickerland or find me using
>> this
>> email address.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 7:36 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Great school news!
>>
>> Things are starting to go my way!
>> After 2, and a half years of attending Phillips Community College, I'm
>> finally going to have Braille books, starting this Fall!
>> I did some research, and found Midwestern Braille Volunteers, (thanks
>> in part, to a member of this list,) and I found out, that my VR
>> counselor can pay them for my books!
>> Now, let's hope I can get a good deal, on a notetaker, at convention!
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zach2012%40chickerland.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 23:50:21 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 18:50:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] fw: new BrailleNote mPower, new deals
Message-ID: <4f5945e7.aab9340a.3099.ffffdf93@mx.google.com>



=20----=20Original=20Message=20------
From:=20"Dmitriy"=20<dimalzr at verizon.net
Subject:=20[Braillenote]=20New=20BrailleNote=20mPower,=20new=20deals
Date=20sent:=20Mon,=2005=20Mar=202012=2017:09:52=20-0500

Hello,
I=E2=80=99m=20selling=202=20BrailleNote=20mPowers=20for=20$2,900.00
One=20is=20Keysoft=207.5=20and=20another=20one=20Keysoft=208=20Build=2021
This=20is=20of=20course=20in=20USD.
Both=20have=20factory=20replaced=20new=20batteries,=20new=20Braille=20displ=
ays,=20
and=20Braille=20keyboards.
I=20was=20originally=20selling=20them=20for=20$4,500.00

Thank=20you.

Dmitriy=20Lazarev=20from=20New=20York
___
Replies=20to=20this=20message=20will=20go=20directly=20to=20the=20sender.
If=20your=20reply=20would=20be=20useful=20to=20the=20list,=20please=20send=
=20a
copy=20to=20the=20list=20as=20well.

To=20leave=20the=20BrailleNote=20list,=20send=20a=20blank=20message=20to
braillenote-unsubscribe at list.humanware.com
To=20view=20the=20list=20archives=20or=20change=20your=20preferences,=20vis=
it
http://list.humanware.com/mailman/listinfo/braillenote




From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 23:50:22 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 18:50:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs accessibility
Message-ID: <4f5945e9.aab9340a.3099.ffffdf95@mx.google.com>

Hi Katie,

I don't have any personal experience with Google Docs, but I 
heard that the NFB's IBTC (International Braille and Technology 
Center) tested Google Docs, and they determined it to be 
inaccessible.  I'm not sure what browser they tested it with, but 
you could probably get that information from the Access 
Technology Blog, which is on the NFB site.  I learned this via 
Anna Reed, a paralegal for the Brown, Goldstein, and Levy law 
firm, who contacted me when that firm was working on the lawsuit 
NFB filed against Google for the inaccessibility of its 
applications which were used in education.  This includes Google 
Docs.  I hope this helps, although I don't have any personal 
experience with the program.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

----- Original Message -----
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 5 Mar 2012 21:14:49 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Google Docs accessibility

Hi Katie and all,
I haven't tried Google Docs recently, but someone told me that it 
is
supposedly accessible with Firefox but not with Internet 
Explorer.
Have you tried it with Firefox?
Arielle

On 3/5/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
 yeah, how misleading to say its accessible and then it is not.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Katie Wang
 Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 4:53 PM
 To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Subject: [nabs-l] Google Docs accessibility

 Hi all,

 I wrote to the list to inquire about your experiences of using 
Google
 Docs with JAWS a while ago, and the consensus at the time was 
that the
 service is largely inaccessible.  I have been able to get around 
this
 problem by using Dropbox on certain occasions, but people by and 
large
 prefer to use Google Docs and I often have to ask for edits to 
be
 added on my behalf or for the latest version of the document to 
be
 emailed to me.  However, I recently came across
 www.google.com/accessibility, which claims that many of the 
Google
 products we typically consider inaccessible, such as Docs and
 Calendar, are compatible with JAWS 12 or newer.  In response to 
this
 seemingly encouraging announcement, I gave Google Docs another 
try,
 but when I opened any shared spreadsheet or document JAWS says
 "Application Mode On" and does not read anything else.  Pressing
 Control plus Slash brought up a list of keyboard navigation 
shortcuts
 mentioned in the accessibility page above, but none of those 
works.

 I'm somewhat baffled by this situation since I'm using the 
latest
 version of JAWS and Internet Explorer.  Am I missing something, 
or is
 Google making inaccurate claims about the accessibility of their
 products? Has anyone here had any success with using Google 
Docs? Any
 thoughts would be much appreciated!

 Katie

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 nabs-l:
 
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 nabs-l:
 
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m%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 23:50:24 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 18:50:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
Message-ID: <4f5945ea.aab9340a.3099.ffffdf96@mx.google.com>

Hi Justin,

If I remember correctly from your previous posts about phones, 
you are using Verizon as your cell phone carrier.  If that's the 
case, the Sampsung Haven has a fully accessible calendar.  The 
phone is also self-voicing, which means it has a built-in screen 
reader.  This is a great phone for us Verizon users who don't 
want a smartphone.  If it doesn't matter to you or you do want a 
smartphone, you can always go with the iPhone.  All built-in 
apps, including the calendar, are accessible with VoiceOver.

By the way, if you decide to go with the Haven, let me know, and 
I will tell you how to turn the speech on on the Haven.  Just ask 
the salesperson at your Verizon store to do the steps I tell you 
so you will then have speech when you get your Haven.

Hope this helps,

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

----- Original Message -----
From: Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 00:32:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender

Hi to All!

Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer 
this
question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my 
phone.
I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible 
calender
where you can enter the location of the appointments and is 
non-touch
screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!

Thanks in advance:)

Justin

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com


From brlsurfer at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 23:56:25 2012
From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas)
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 15:56:25 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
Message-ID: <4f594737.246b340a.0edf.ffffdf74@mx.google.com>

Hi,
I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams have 
lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a lot, 
so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it 
stands for.
But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention to 
the diagrams.
Vejas


 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too 
cluttered, then
it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't 
help you?

----- Original Message -----
From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring


 Hi,
 I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.  
My
 teacher is OK, I guess.
 Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help 
me, so I
 don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not 
helped.
 Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers loves 
the way
 diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was a 
sighter
 person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain 
stuff you
 need? I have a test tomorrow.
 Thanks for any input.
 Vejas

 _______________________________________________
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 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
wavecable.com


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From jty727 at gmail.com  Fri Mar  9 00:00:50 2012
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 19:00:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <4f5945ea.aab9340a.3099.ffffdf96@mx.google.com>
References: <4f5945ea.aab9340a.3099.ffffdf96@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s5=Q7=5V=g1d6zonVj35SsaMr6tZkvW=hrymYE9M19SQg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Chris,

I currently have the Haven.  My problem is the calender doesn't read
the days you are on to properly enter your appointment.  If there is a
way to improve this I would love to know.

Are there different versions of the Haven?  This is a curiousity
question more so than anything else.

Justin

On 3/8/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Justin,
>
> If I remember correctly from your previous posts about phones,
> you are using Verizon as your cell phone carrier.  If that's the
> case, the Sampsung Haven has a fully accessible calendar.  The
> phone is also self-voicing, which means it has a built-in screen
> reader.  This is a great phone for us Verizon users who don't
> want a smartphone.  If it doesn't matter to you or you do want a
> smartphone, you can always go with the iPhone.  All built-in
> apps, including the calendar, are accessible with VoiceOver.
>
> By the way, if you decide to go with the Haven, let me know, and
> I will tell you how to turn the speech on on the Haven.  Just ask
> the salesperson at your Verizon store to do the steps I tell you
> so you will then have speech when you get your Haven.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Chris
>
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
> nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 00:32:31 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>
> Hi to All!
>
> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer
> this
> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my
> phone.
> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible
> calender
> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is
> non-touch
> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>
> Thanks in advance:)
>
> Justin
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Thu Mar  8 23:11:24 2012
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 19:11:24 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <CA+3U9s5=Q7=5V=g1d6zonVj35SsaMr6tZkvW=hrymYE9M19SQg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f5945ea.aab9340a.3099.ffffdf96@mx.google.com>
	<CA+3U9s5=Q7=5V=g1d6zonVj35SsaMr6tZkvW=hrymYE9M19SQg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3E4E943F28594F638C7824C140C59F9E@userPC>

No I don't think so.
Rania,
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Justin Young
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 8:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender

Hi Chris,

I currently have the Haven.  My problem is the calender doesn't read
the days you are on to properly enter your appointment.  If there is a
way to improve this I would love to know.

Are there different versions of the Haven?  This is a curiousity
question more so than anything else.

Justin

On 3/8/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Justin,
>
> If I remember correctly from your previous posts about phones,
> you are using Verizon as your cell phone carrier.  If that's the
> case, the Sampsung Haven has a fully accessible calendar.  The
> phone is also self-voicing, which means it has a built-in screen
> reader.  This is a great phone for us Verizon users who don't
> want a smartphone.  If it doesn't matter to you or you do want a
> smartphone, you can always go with the iPhone.  All built-in
> apps, including the calendar, are accessible with VoiceOver.
>
> By the way, if you decide to go with the Haven, let me know, and
> I will tell you how to turn the speech on on the Haven.  Just ask
> the salesperson at your Verizon store to do the steps I tell you
> so you will then have speech when you get your Haven.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Chris
>
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
> nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 00:32:31 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>
> Hi to All!
>
> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer
> this
> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my
> phone.
> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible
> calender
> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is
> non-touch
> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>
> Thanks in advance:)
>
> Justin
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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m



From ascottkaiser90 at inbox.com  Fri Mar  9 02:00:12 2012
From: ascottkaiser90 at inbox.com (Alexander kaiser)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 18:00:12 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] petition
Message-ID: <B6C711D8A1C.00000AB3ascottkaiser90@inbox.com>

     please read and sign.
Sincerely,
Alex
http://www.petition2congress.com/6294/promoting-braille-literacy-promoting-access-braille-to-blind-stud/

____________________________________________________________
FREE 3D MARINE AQUARIUM SCREENSAVER - Watch dolphins, sharks & orcas on your desktop!
Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/marineaquarium




From trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com  Fri Mar  9 05:03:32 2012
From: trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com (Winona)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] prom
Message-ID: <4f598f57.21a1ec0a.33ce.7ebb@mx.google.com>

Hi everyone,

I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.  
So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that 
doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to 
it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance 
and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know), 
and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I 
guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I 
don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.

Winona

trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com

 "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For 
every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love 
there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
-Ivan Panin

"Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of 
self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best 
you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden


From brlsurfer at gmail.com  Fri Mar  9 05:13:27 2012
From: brlsurfer at gmail.com (vejas)
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 21:13:27 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] prom
Message-ID: <4f599186.c2b8340a.7ee8.0efd@mx.google.com>

Hopefully, the guy you're with will guide you through the dances.
Good luck.
Vejas


 ----- Original Message -----
From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] prom

Hi everyone,

I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.

Winona

trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com

 "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
-Ivan Panin

"Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40g
mail.com


From aubielynn at gmail.com  Fri Mar  9 05:51:43 2012
From: aubielynn at gmail.com (Aubrie Lucas)
Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 20:51:43 -0900
Subject: [nabs-l] prom
In-Reply-To: <4f598f57.21a1ec0a.33ce.7ebb@mx.google.com>
References: <4f598f57.21a1ec0a.33ce.7ebb@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <000201ccfdb8$c8bfbb00$5a3f3100$@com>

He will hold your right hand in his left, and put his right hand on your
waist. Your left hand goes on his shoulder. Usually you just kind of turn in
a circle to the music.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Winona
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 8:04 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org; blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] prom

Hi everyone,

I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.  
So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that doesn't matter
at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to it.  But I don't really
know what to expect.  I know you dance and hang out with friends (which most
of I probably won't know), and have a good time.  But I don't know how to
dance. ...  So, I guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't
know.  I don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.

Winona

trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com

 "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For every truth
there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love there is a heart
somewhere to receive it."
-Ivan Panin

"Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of self-satisfaction in
knowing you did your best to become the best you are capable of becoming." -
John Wooden

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aubielynn%40gmail.com



From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Fri Mar  9 05:57:27 2012
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 22:57:27 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] prom
Message-ID: <4f599bd2.05183c0a.0dfc.ffff8d96@mx.google.com>

You're lucky.  I never went to my senior prom at all.  I couldn't 
because of a secondary disability my parents were unable to 
properly detect.  Also, my mother said it was for dating couples 
only.  At least you're getting a date with a friend.  Have fun.  
I don't know anything about proms, but beware the "unacceptable 
dance" rules.  The school I went to had an unacceptable dancing 
policy against "freak dancing."  It was interesfting because 
people backed out of homecoming, and they were kicked out because 
of it.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] prom

Hi everyone,

I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.

Winona

trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com

 "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
-Ivan Panin

"Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
se%40gmail.com


From dandrews at visi.com  Fri Mar  9 08:39:44 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 02:39:44 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: ADV: Mobile Learning Initiative Survey
Message-ID: <auto-000052019086@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>
>Dear Students,
>
>Your input and feedback is important to us as we embark on our new 
>Mobile Learning Initiative. We ask that you take a moment to 
>complete this survey to help us understand how Hadley students use 
>mobile devices. Your feedback will be kept confidential. We thank 
>you in advance for your participation.
>
>Please complete this survey online by visiting the following link: 
>http://www.hadley.edu/mobilesurvey
>
>To learn more about the Hadley School for the Blind mLearning 
>Initiative, visit http://www.hadley.edu/mobile
>
>The Hadley School for the Blind
>
>
>This message was sent to Dandrews at visi.com from:
>The Hadley School for the Blind | 700 Elm St.  | Winnetka, IL 60093



From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Fri Mar  9 14:06:48 2012
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 10:06:48 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] prom
In-Reply-To: <4f599bd2.05183c0a.0dfc.ffff8d96@mx.google.com>
References: <4f599bd2.05183c0a.0dfc.ffff8d96@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <8F9682D44C4E42D6BE5C9EB68A7ACC34@userPC>

I never went either. I hope you have a great time.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Beth
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 1:57 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] prom

You're lucky.  I never went to my senior prom at all.  I couldn't 
because of a secondary disability my parents were unable to 
properly detect.  Also, my mother said it was for dating couples 
only.  At least you're getting a date with a friend.  Have fun.  
I don't know anything about proms, but beware the "unacceptable 
dance" rules.  The school I went to had an unacceptable dancing 
policy against "freak dancing."  It was interesfting because 
people backed out of homecoming, and they were kicked out because 
of it.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] prom

Hi everyone,

I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.

Winona

trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com

 "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
-Ivan Panin

"Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
se%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co
m



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Mar  9 15:25:55 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 09:25:55 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] prom
In-Reply-To: <8F9682D44C4E42D6BE5C9EB68A7ACC34@userPC>
References: <4f599bd2.05183c0a.0dfc.ffff8d96@mx.google.com>
	<8F9682D44C4E42D6BE5C9EB68A7ACC34@userPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvt4dZF1eG2FChe=pvWmr9bEM0J7531SCkYs3uTGLXVOg@mail.gmail.com>

Winona, I went to prom twice.
I didn't care for the music, because it was too loud.
I danced a little, with my date, my freshman year, (a senior invited
me to go with her.)
We didn't enjoy ourselves, because neither one of us liked the songs,
that were played.
We were both Country music fans, but all they played, was that rap mess!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/9/12, Rania Ismail CMT <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I never went either. I hope you have a great time.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Beth
> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 1:57 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] prom
>
> You're lucky.  I never went to my senior prom at all.  I couldn't
> because of a secondary disability my parents were unable to
> properly detect.  Also, my mother said it was for dating couples
> only.  At least you're getting a date with a friend.  Have fun.
> I don't know anything about proms, but beware the "unacceptable
> dance" rules.  The school I went to had an unacceptable dancing
> policy against "freak dancing."  It was interesfting because
> people backed out of homecoming, and they were kicked out because
> of it.
> Beth
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] prom
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
> So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
> doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
> it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
> and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
> and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
> guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
> don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.
>
> Winona
>
> trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>
>  "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
> every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
> there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
> -Ivan Panin
>
> "Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
> self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
> you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
> se%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From trillian551 at gmail.com  Fri Mar  9 16:19:56 2012
From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 11:19:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] prom
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOvt4dZF1eG2FChe=pvWmr9bEM0J7531SCkYs3uTGLXVOg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f599bd2.05183c0a.0dfc.ffff8d96@mx.google.com>
	<8F9682D44C4E42D6BE5C9EB68A7ACC34@userPC>
	<CAO83KOvt4dZF1eG2FChe=pvWmr9bEM0J7531SCkYs3uTGLXVOg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADit0-vwTa3eo+7g+OxiUp4VAm7vmCVqjBPmehM0F35z0M2D1g@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Winona and all!
this is a great thread! Winona, when is the prom? Do you have friends
and/or sisters or brothers who dance regularly? If so, dancing will
come fairly easy. If you like to listen to music, and have a good
sense of rhythm, dancing, specially prom type music will be simple.
Lots of proms play hiphop and r*B plus some older 90s and 80s music. A
good place to start is in your room, turn on some music and just start
 moving your body around thinking of the beat. Don't worry that you
think you look dumb, your in your room! Move your hips, throw your
hands up in the air. Once you feel more comfortable, maybe start
dancing with a friend or sibling, ask them what people are doing
nowadays. Is there a song out there right now with a specific dance? I
haven't listened to the radio in a while, but usually every year they
have some song with some silly dance, and learn it, so when it comes
on your know how it goes.
Also, a big part of prom is just feeling like you look great and
setting out to have fun. I went to prom with my best friend, who
happened to be a girl and had a great time. So, let me know about the
time line we are working with and I'll think about this some more.
Sincerely,
Mary Fernandez

On 3/9/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> Winona, I went to prom twice.
> I didn't care for the music, because it was too loud.
> I danced a little, with my date, my freshman year, (a senior invited
> me to go with her.)
> We didn't enjoy ourselves, because neither one of us liked the songs,
> that were played.
> We were both Country music fans, but all they played, was that rap mess!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/9/12, Rania Ismail CMT <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I never went either. I hope you have a great time.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Beth
>> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 1:57 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] prom
>>
>> You're lucky.  I never went to my senior prom at all.  I couldn't
>> because of a secondary disability my parents were unable to
>> properly detect.  Also, my mother said it was for dating couples
>> only.  At least you're getting a date with a friend.  Have fun.
>> I don't know anything about proms, but beware the "unacceptable
>> dance" rules.  The school I went to had an unacceptable dancing
>> policy against "freak dancing."  It was interesfting because
>> people backed out of homecoming, and they were kicked out because
>> of it.
>> Beth
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
>> Subject: [nabs-l] prom
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
>> So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
>> doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
>> it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
>> and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
>> and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
>> guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
>> don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.
>>
>> Winona
>>
>> trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>>
>>  "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
>> every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
>> there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
>> -Ivan Panin
>>
>> "Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
>> self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
>> you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>> se%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
Emory 2012
"Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
--
T.S. Eliot


From JHartle at nfb.org  Fri Mar  9 16:18:36 2012
From: JHartle at nfb.org (Hartle, Jesse)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 08:18:36 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Update on Legislative Action
Message-ID: <8AFFB8D1E8D6904090DF5B33AABB802506F2890DD6@VA3DIAXVS661.RED001.local>

Fellow Federationists:





I am writing to update you on the latest developments on Senator Portman’s amendment 1742 to the Senate surface transportation bill, S. 1813.

Senator Portman’s amendment would allow states to enter into commercial ventures at rest areas on federal highways and interstates, and would dramatically impact Randolph-Sheppard vendors that are currently operating at those locations.

The Senate began debate on S. 1813 yesterday, but adjourned until next Tuesday, March 13, before Senator Portman’s amendment could be considered. We must use this extra time to work to ensure that we get the votes to defeat Senator Portman’s amendment next Tuesday.

Please continue to call your senators, and urge them to vote against Senator Portman’s Amendment 1742. You may be connected to your senator’s offices by calling the Capitol switchboard at (202) 224-3121. I appreciate the work that we have done to this point, and I am asking you to see it through to the finish next Tuesday. Please contact me with any questions.

Jesse

　

Jesse Hartle

Government Programs Specialist

National Federation of the Blind

Phone: (410) 659-9314, Ext. 2233

Email: jhartle at nfb.org




From bfs1206 at gmail.com  Fri Mar  9 18:44:10 2012
From: bfs1206 at gmail.com (Brianna Scerenscko)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 13:44:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] prom
In-Reply-To: <CADit0-vwTa3eo+7g+OxiUp4VAm7vmCVqjBPmehM0F35z0M2D1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f599bd2.05183c0a.0dfc.ffff8d96@mx.google.com>
	<8F9682D44C4E42D6BE5C9EB68A7ACC34@userPC>
	<CAO83KOvt4dZF1eG2FChe=pvWmr9bEM0J7531SCkYs3uTGLXVOg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADit0-vwTa3eo+7g+OxiUp4VAm7vmCVqjBPmehM0F35z0M2D1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0C4E3EEF-A588-4FDC-AD3E-180AC8C464AC@gmail.com>

I went to prom 3 times. Don't worry about what you look like, just let your body move to the music and have fun.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 9, 2012, at 11:19 AM, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Winona and all!
> this is a great thread! Winona, when is the prom? Do you have friends
> and/or sisters or brothers who dance regularly? If so, dancing will
> come fairly easy. If you like to listen to music, and have a good
> sense of rhythm, dancing, specially prom type music will be simple.
> Lots of proms play hiphop and r*B plus some older 90s and 80s music. A
> good place to start is in your room, turn on some music and just start
> moving your body around thinking of the beat. Don't worry that you
> think you look dumb, your in your room! Move your hips, throw your
> hands up in the air. Once you feel more comfortable, maybe start
> dancing with a friend or sibling, ask them what people are doing
> nowadays. Is there a song out there right now with a specific dance? I
> haven't listened to the radio in a while, but usually every year they
> have some song with some silly dance, and learn it, so when it comes
> on your know how it goes.
> Also, a big part of prom is just feeling like you look great and
> setting out to have fun. I went to prom with my best friend, who
> happened to be a girl and had a great time. So, let me know about the
> time line we are working with and I'll think about this some more.
> Sincerely,
> Mary Fernandez
> 
> On 3/9/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> Winona, I went to prom twice.
>> I didn't care for the music, because it was too loud.
>> I danced a little, with my date, my freshman year, (a senior invited
>> me to go with her.)
>> We didn't enjoy ourselves, because neither one of us liked the songs,
>> that were played.
>> We were both Country music fans, but all they played, was that rap mess!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> 
>> On 3/9/12, Rania Ismail CMT <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I never went either. I hope you have a great time.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Beth
>>> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 1:57 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] prom
>>> 
>>> You're lucky.  I never went to my senior prom at all.  I couldn't
>>> because of a secondary disability my parents were unable to
>>> properly detect.  Also, my mother said it was for dating couples
>>> only.  At least you're getting a date with a friend.  Have fun.
>>> I don't know anything about proms, but beware the "unacceptable
>>> dance" rules.  The school I went to had an unacceptable dancing
>>> policy against "freak dancing."  It was interesfting because
>>> people backed out of homecoming, and they were kicked out because
>>> of it.
>>> Beth
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] prom
>>> 
>>> Hi everyone,
>>> 
>>> I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
>>> So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
>>> doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
>>> it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
>>> and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
>>> and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
>>> guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
>>> don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.
>>> 
>>> Winona
>>> 
>>> trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>>> 
>>> "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
>>> every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
>>> there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
>>> -Ivan Panin
>>> 
>>> "Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
>>> self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
>>> you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>> se%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co
>>> m
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory 2012
> "Do I dare
> Disturb the universe?
> In a minute there is time
> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
> --
> T.S. Eliot
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bfs1206%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 03:50:38 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:50:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
Message-ID: <4f5acfb9.451b340a.1115.ffffc8ec@mx.google.com>

Ashley,

Do you have Verizon? What about the Haven?

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 16:50:44 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender

Maybe a tactile overlay would help with the touch screen.  I'm 
old fashioned
and have a regular phone; it may have a calendar, but if it does 
it does not
talk.  It only talks when incoming calls come in.  I
use another calendar to stay organized.  I wish NFB would push 
for more
accessible phones.  Come on, not everyone wants a smart phone; 
however, I
would like access to the on screen menus; I want to know who 
called
yesterday in my missed calls list; and I want to read texts.  But 
No do not
want the bells and whistles of the I phone.
-----Original Message-----
From: Katie Wang
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 2:05 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender

Hi Justin,
Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch 
screen, so
you might have to get used to that interface if you want 
something
more sophisticated than the Haven.  I currently have a Nokia 
Symbian
phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, 
but as
you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of 
products.  I'm
not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to 
the
fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the 
future--
While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of 
blind
people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
master the technique too with some practice.  Just my thoughts!
Katie


On 3/6/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
 This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade 
they
 didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my 
Haven
 because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the 
touch
 screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm 
curious of
 there are any suggestions out there.

 On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
 which cell carrier are you using?
 The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; 
not sure
 though if the calendar talks.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Justin Young
 Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender

 Hi to All!

 Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer 
this
 question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my 
phone.
 I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible 
calender
 where you can enter the location of the appointments and is 
non-touch
 screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  
Any
 suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!

 Thanks in advance:)

 Justin

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
0earthlink.net


 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmai
l.com


 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%4
0gmail.com


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
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0earthlink.net


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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m%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 03:50:40 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:50:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
Message-ID: <4f5acfbb.451b340a.1115.ffffc8ee@mx.google.com>

Hi Kayla,

PowerPoint is very accessible with JAWS.  To read text within a 
slide, you would open your presentation and page down to the 
slide you want and hit enter.  Then tab until JAWS says "body 
place holder" and hit enter.  You can then read the text.

Hope this helps,

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net
To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 18:42:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws

Hey, does anyone know if jaws will read text within a PowerPoint 
slide? If so, how would I read it?

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
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m%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 03:50:42 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:50:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] fw: deadline to apply for the National Achievement Awards
	extended!
Message-ID: <4f5acfbd.451b340a.1115.ffffc8f0@mx.google.com>





 ---- Original Message ------
From: Learning Ally formerly RFB&D <enews at learningally.org
Subject: Deadline to Apply for the National Achievement Awards
Extended!
Date sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 14:06:35 -0500 (EST)

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Dear Member,

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Ally member and you could win up to $6,000!

High school seniors with a learning disability and college or
graduate students
who are blind or visually impaired and have or will be receiving
their bachelor's,
master's or doctoral degree between July 1, 2011 and June 30,
2012 are eligible
to apply.

Apply online today!
[http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1109454709745&s=17944&e=001woyPNKWV
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Students located in Southern California and the Metropolitan DC
area may have the
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If you have any questions
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Sincerely,

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NAA Coordinator


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*You may apply for more than one award but are only eligible to
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 03:50:50 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:50:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
Message-ID: <4f5acfc5.451b340a.1115.ffffc8f4@mx.google.com>

Anmol,

There's an easier and more accessible way to do that.  In the 
save as dialogue, under save as type combo box, save it as 
Outline/RTF.  This is automatically accessible, as you can read 
it like a Word document.  This way, you don't have to do any 
conversions.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Anmol Bhatia <anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 16:30:09 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws

The best thing to do would be to save it as a PDF document.  If 
you go to save as, you sould see a option to save it as a pdf.
Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.  
Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is 
vague, like a breeze among flowers.
Hellen Keller


--- On Tue, 3/6/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:

 From: Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net
 Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
 To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date: Tuesday, March 6, 2012, 5:42 PM
 Hey, does anyone know if jaws will
 read text within a PowerPoint slide? If so, how would I read
 it?

 Sent from my iPhone
 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
 info for nabs-l:
 
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 03:51:20 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:51:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] announcement: a study on the uses and accessibility of
	podcasts in college courses
Message-ID: <4f5acfe2.451b340a.1115.ffffc8ff@mx.google.com>

Hello fellow NABS members,

I have been asked to circulate this announcement to the NABS 
members.  A doctoral student is conducting a study and would like 
to reach out to college students as potential participants.  If 
you would like to participate or if you have any questions, 
contact Kimarie Whetstone at the email address she provides.  Her 
announcement follows:

 Dear students and NABS listers,
Please pass this announcement on to any blind college
students that you know.  Please forward to other student lists 
you are on and to
your state student division list.
I am conducting a study on the current uses and
accessibility of podcasts in online college courses.  The current 
uses of audio
podcasts and the accessibility of audio podcasts in U.S.  online 
college courses
as perceived by learners with vision loss is unknown.  For that 
reason, we are
requesting that you please take our survey to share your 
perspective.  A link to
the online survey on Survey Gizmo is below.  The survey will take 
approximately
15 minutes to complete and will be anonymous.
httpcceduddsurveygizmoddcomstsblec/gbecegstCurrent-Uses-and-Acces
sibility-of-Podcasts-in-Online-College-Courses
Thank you.
Kimarie Whetstone
Doctoral Student
whetstonekjw at yahoo.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 03:51:24 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:51:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i react?
Message-ID: <4f5acfe7.451b340a.1115.ffffc903@mx.google.com>

Hi Vejas,

Exactly! He is uneducated about blindness and exhibits the worst 
of the misconceptions which we complain about all the time.  So, 
as we have to do all the time, you're going to need to educate 
this aid.  What I try to do in situations such as the ones you 
describe is try to educate them right then and there.  If, for 
example, as you describe, someone says there are proud of me for 
just travelling on my own, I answer, "Thank you, but what is 
there to be especially proud of? I'm walking down the hallway to 
my class just like a sighted person would." He may answer, "Well, 
you're blind, and I can't imagine travelling without my sight or 
with that big stick of yours." I then answer, "Yes, and I can't 
imagine travelling or doing anything else with my sight or 
without that big stick, otherwise known as a cane." He's probably 
just in awe of you because he can't imagine being in your shoes, 
and this may teach him.  If he doesn't get it then, as in a 
situation I had with a 7th grade teacher, I would try to schedule 
a meeting with him, you, and your TVI.  Get your aid, who sounds 
like he's got blindness misconceptions of his own, out of the 
situation altogether! That will most likely work.

If that even doesn't work, which I think is highly unlikely, you 
can do 1 of 2 things: (1) just ignore him and do your thing, or 
(2) kind of interrupt him.  Let me explain the second suggestion.  
One time, when one of the other kids at my bus stop started to 
give me unwanted turn-by-turn directions to get to the bus stop, 
which is a route I travel every day and one which I know well.  
After I repeatedly told him "I've got it," he seems to ignore me 
and still gave me these directions.  So what I finally did was 
when we got to a place where I needed to turn left, the guy said, 
"Turn..." and as he started to tell me which direction he wanted 
me to turn him, I said "Left!" He finally understood then! I hope 
these suggestions help you, and I hope that this email makes 
sense.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

----- Original Message -----
From: vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 16:50:28 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i 
react?

Hi,
The person I am writing about is not my aide, it's another guy.
This guy, Gregory, helps out with other kids, I think maybe the
ones who are autistic?
Anyway, when I've seen him recently he has been ABSOLUTELY
ANNOYING.
For example, for no other reason than the fact that I was
travelling on my own, he said he was proud of me.  But I didn't
do anything! I'm just traveling, exactly as I should!
On a second incident, when I was outside a classroom, I had to
call my mom for something, and he came up.  After being told that
I was on the phone, I was just about to leave the message when he
began talking again in his loud voice, and I had to call her
again.  When somebody knows you're on the phone, they should
seriously JUST LEAVE.
And maybe the worst was today.  He followed me the WHOLE ENTIRE
last quarter of my math class.  He would tell me to turn left,
even if I knew I had to.  And the weirdest thing was that when I
was walking, I felt a trash can with my cane and went around it
just as I was supposed to.  Then a couple seconds later he said,
"There's a trash can." Yes, I know.  I went around it a couple of
seconds ago.
I really need help.  He really bugs me.  I'm assuming he might
just be uneducated in blindness, as he is so used to working with
learning-disabled and autistíc people and probably has to do a
lot with them.
I've considered telling my aide, but they're sort of friends and
knowing who he is (I've had this aide for three years, same one I
talked about about getting lost a week ago), I'm assuming he's
probably going to make some excuse for Gregory (they're on
friendly terms.)
How can I get the message across to Gregory? Seriously if he
doesn't listen to the fact that I'm about to send my mom a
message, how am I going to expect him to listen if I talk with
him firmly?
Thank you so much.
Vejas


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From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 04:14:59 2012
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 23:14:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJOM=2EB5vjkEg0SLojdiJYOT+VzFf5kCJ-peAafqNVm+AeMQ@mail.gmail.com>

if anyone needs help with iOS, let me know. Love my iTouch and iPhone, :)

On 3/6/12, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Justin,
> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
> Katie
>
>
> On 3/6/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>
>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not sure
>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Justin Young
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>
>>> Hi to All!
>>>
>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Sent via gmail.com
Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
Skype: joshgregory93
 twitter: JoshG93


From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 04:28:56 2012
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 21:28:56 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i react?
Message-ID: <4f5ad894.e634b60a.6e0a.fffff993@mx.google.com>

Lovely suggesftions, Chris.  Aids are so weird.  As they say, 
"Can't live with them, can't live without them."
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:51:24 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how 
should i react?

Hi Vejas,

Exactly! He is uneducated about blindness and exhibits the worst
of the misconceptions which we complain about all the time.  So,
as we have to do all the time, you're going to need to educate
this aid.  What I try to do in situations such as the ones you
describe is try to educate them right then and there.  If, for
example, as you describe, someone says there are proud of me for
just travelling on my own, I answer, "Thank you, but what is
there to be especially proud of? I'm walking down the hallway to
my class just like a sighted person would." He may answer, "Well,
you're blind, and I can't imagine travelling without my sight or
with that big stick of yours." I then answer, "Yes, and I can't
imagine travelling or doing anything else with my sight or
without that big stick, otherwise known as a cane." He's probably
just in awe of you because he can't imagine being in your shoes,
and this may teach him.  If he doesn't get it then, as in a
situation I had with a 7th grade teacher, I would try to schedule
a meeting with him, you, and your TVI.  Get your aid, who sounds
like he's got blindness misconceptions of his own, out of the
situation altogether! That will most likely work.

If that even doesn't work, which I think is highly unlikely, you
can do 1 of 2 things: (1) just ignore him and do your thing, or
(2) kind of interrupt him.  Let me explain the second suggestion.
One time, when one of the other kids at my bus stop started to
give me unwanted turn-by-turn directions to get to the bus stop,
which is a route I travel every day and one which I know well.
After I repeatedly told him "I've got it," he seems to ignore me
and still gave me these directions.  So what I finally did was
when we got to a place where I needed to turn left, the guy said,
"Turn..." and as he started to tell me which direction he wanted
me to turn him, I said "Left!" He finally understood then! I hope
these suggestions help you, and I hope that this email makes
sense.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

----- Original Message -----
From: vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 16:50:28 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i
react?

Hi,
The person I am writing about is not my aide, it's another guy.
This guy, Gregory, helps out with other kids, I think maybe the
ones who are autistic?
Anyway, when I've seen him recently he has been ABSOLUTELY
ANNOYING.
For example, for no other reason than the fact that I was
travelling on my own, he said he was proud of me.  But I didn't
do anything! I'm just traveling, exactly as I should!
On a second incident, when I was outside a classroom, I had to
call my mom for something, and he came up.  After being told that
I was on the phone, I was just about to leave the message when he
began talking again in his loud voice, and I had to call her
again.  When somebody knows you're on the phone, they should
seriously JUST LEAVE.
And maybe the worst was today.  He followed me the WHOLE ENTIRE
last quarter of my math class.  He would tell me to turn left,
even if I knew I had to.  And the weirdest thing was that when I
was walking, I felt a trash can with my cane and went around it
just as I was supposed to.  Then a couple seconds later he said,
"There's a trash can." Yes, I know.  I went around it a couple of
seconds ago.
I really need help.  He really bugs me.  I'm assuming he might
just be uneducated in blindness, as he is so used to working with
learning-disabled and autistíc people and probably has to do a
lot with them.
I've considered telling my aide, but they're sort of friends and
knowing who he is (I've had this aide for three years, same one I
talked about about getting lost a week ago), I'm assuming he's
probably going to make some excuse for Gregory (they're on
friendly terms.)
How can I get the message across to Gregory? Seriously if he
doesn't listen to the fact that I'm about to send my mom a
message, how am I going to expect him to listen if I talk with
him firmly?
Thank you so much.
Vejas


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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Mar 10 07:17:19 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 23:17:19 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i react?
References: <4f5ad894.e634b60a.6e0a.fffff993@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <97DC71ED0D7E4A99A6F9DC97599B88CC@stanford.edu>

Oh dear, that most certainly was not the case for me. All of the aides that 
I have had have been very nice, and I never had problems, or, if I did, they 
were the most minor things and nothing like what is being described here, 
probably not even classified as problems.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i react?


Lovely suggesftions, Chris.  Aids are so weird.  As they say,
"Can't live with them, can't live without them."
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:51:24 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how
should i react?

Hi Vejas,

Exactly! He is uneducated about blindness and exhibits the worst
of the misconceptions which we complain about all the time.  So,
as we have to do all the time, you're going to need to educate
this aid.  What I try to do in situations such as the ones you
describe is try to educate them right then and there.  If, for
example, as you describe, someone says there are proud of me for
just travelling on my own, I answer, "Thank you, but what is
there to be especially proud of? I'm walking down the hallway to
my class just like a sighted person would." He may answer, "Well,
you're blind, and I can't imagine travelling without my sight or
with that big stick of yours." I then answer, "Yes, and I can't
imagine travelling or doing anything else with my sight or
without that big stick, otherwise known as a cane." He's probably
just in awe of you because he can't imagine being in your shoes,
and this may teach him.  If he doesn't get it then, as in a
situation I had with a 7th grade teacher, I would try to schedule
a meeting with him, you, and your TVI.  Get your aid, who sounds
like he's got blindness misconceptions of his own, out of the
situation altogether! That will most likely work.

If that even doesn't work, which I think is highly unlikely, you
can do 1 of 2 things: (1) just ignore him and do your thing, or
(2) kind of interrupt him.  Let me explain the second suggestion.
One time, when one of the other kids at my bus stop started to
give me unwanted turn-by-turn directions to get to the bus stop,
which is a route I travel every day and one which I know well.
After I repeatedly told him "I've got it," he seems to ignore me
and still gave me these directions.  So what I finally did was
when we got to a place where I needed to turn left, the guy said,
"Turn..." and as he started to tell me which direction he wanted
me to turn him, I said "Left!" He finally understood then! I hope
these suggestions help you, and I hope that this email makes
sense.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

----- Original Message -----
From: vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 16:50:28 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i
react?

Hi,
The person I am writing about is not my aide, it's another guy.
This guy, Gregory, helps out with other kids, I think maybe the
ones who are autistic?
Anyway, when I've seen him recently he has been ABSOLUTELY
ANNOYING.
For example, for no other reason than the fact that I was
travelling on my own, he said he was proud of me.  But I didn't
do anything! I'm just traveling, exactly as I should!
On a second incident, when I was outside a classroom, I had to
call my mom for something, and he came up.  After being told that
I was on the phone, I was just about to leave the message when he
began talking again in his loud voice, and I had to call her
again.  When somebody knows you're on the phone, they should
seriously JUST LEAVE.
And maybe the worst was today.  He followed me the WHOLE ENTIRE
last quarter of my math class.  He would tell me to turn left,
even if I knew I had to.  And the weirdest thing was that when I
was walking, I felt a trash can with my cane and went around it
just as I was supposed to.  Then a couple seconds later he said,
"There's a trash can." Yes, I know.  I went around it a couple of
seconds ago.
I really need help.  He really bugs me.  I'm assuming he might
just be uneducated in blindness, as he is so used to working with
learning-disabled and autistíc people and probably has to do a
lot with them.
I've considered telling my aide, but they're sort of friends and
knowing who he is (I've had this aide for three years, same one I
talked about about getting lost a week ago), I'm assuming he's
probably going to make some excuse for Gregory (they're on
friendly terms.)
How can I get the message across to Gregory? Seriously if he
doesn't listen to the fact that I'm about to send my mom a
message, how am I going to expect him to listen if I talk with
him firmly?
Thank you so much.
Vejas


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
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m%40gmail.com


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
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se%40gmail..com


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com  Sat Mar 10 19:50:47 2012
From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 13:50:47 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Nashville Based Social Flights Announces Service to
	Branson, Austin, and Milwaukee
Message-ID: <001501ccfef7$17c38ad0$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn>

Good afternoon everyone,

    We thought this would be of interest to federationists living in
Missouri, Tennessee, Texas and Wisconsin and decided to share it should your
travels take you to Branson Missouri from Austin, Milwaukee, and
Nashville. SocialFlights.com is a company that aggregates groups of 
travelers
going to the same destination with private and public air charter operators
to allow them to travel more efficiently, safely, and securely on private 
aircraft as an alternative to the airlines. Passengers pay approximately the 
same fare as one would pay if they flew on an airline. For additional 
information visit:
http://www.socialflights.com

For those in Tennessee Social Flights also operates daily
air shuttle service from Smyrna to Knoxville. Learn more at:
https://www.socialflights.com/?pg=allListing&spg=scheduled


    Social Flights will be adding other public charter routes later this 
year. Check them out the next time you wish to travel to see if they have a 
public charter, a user-created flight waiting to be filled, or find others 
going to the same destination to create a flight of your own.



    The NFB Travel and Tourism Division has been in touch with Social 
Flights to discuss future transportation arrangements to federation events 
from around the country for members wishing to attend. Matt Slosky, CFO of 
Social Flights was our guest on our January Telephone Gathering. He gave a 
history of the company, explained how this concept works, and how we might 
work with them to provide air transportation to federation events and to 
educate air charter operators in how best to assist their blind passengers. 
We're hoping to have a representative  from Social Flights address the 
annual meeting of the NFB Travel and Tourism Division to share the same 
information Matt gave us last January and to update us on what has happened 
over the past few months. It will also be an opportunity for those attending 
the national convention to share their flying experiences with the 
representative and discuss how the NFB and Social Flights can partner to 
insure that blind persons have access to private air travel as an additional 
option to scheduled airline service.



The few individuals I've talk to told me that their private air travel 
experience was far superior to that of the airlines. They felt they were 
treated far better and like the self respecting individuals they are not as 
helpless blind passengers that needed someone to hold their hand an all of 
the other stuff many of us have experienced when flying on the airlines. 
Should you fly with Social Flights or another private air charter company 
please share your information concerning your experience with the NFB Travel 
and Tourism Division. we want to compare the travel experiences of blind air 
charter passengers with those who continue to use the airlines.

    Here is the announcement:



Nashville Based Social Flights Announces Service to Branson, Austin, and 
Milwaukee



by Dan Robles

0tweetsretweetFOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

Wednesday, March 7, 2012

Social Flights has announced a partnership with Branson AirExpress for 
round-trip flights from Branson, MO to Nashville, TN, Austin, TX and 
Milwaukee, WI starting in May of this year.

Social Flights will assist Branson AirExpress in marketing the new scheduled 
routes to its current membership of 13,866 fliers and 98 Private-Aviation 
Operators encompassing over 600 jets. Jay Deragon, CEO of Social Flights 
said, “Branson AirExpress is a perfect example of the 21st century model of 
efficient and effective community-oriented air service initiated by, and on 
behalf of, the community”.

“Austin and Milwaukee were strong markets last year and the synergies that 
exist between Branson and Nashville are fantastic,” stated Branson Airport 
Executive Director, Jeff Bourk. “The partnership between these cities, 
Branson AirExpress, Corporate Flight Management and Social Flights allows us 
to offer low fares and continued convenience in getting to and from Branson, 
Missouri.”

Branson AirExpress will offer $99* introductory one-way fares from Branson 
to Austin, Milwaukee, and Nashville through March 14, 2012. For tickets, 
call toll free 1-888-FLY-BKG1 (1-888-359-2541), visit BransonAirExpress.com, 
or visit SocialFlights.com.

Social Flights Contact
Matt Slosky, Media Relations
 Ph: 615-534-4590
matt.slosky at socialflights.com

 About Social Flights:Social Flights is the fastest growing privation 
aviation network online today. Social Flights is introducing a new paradigm 
to private aviation that enables the masses to access and buy seats on 
private aircraft at competitive prices. The Social Flights technology 
matches buyer intents to supplier availability and creates a new marketplace 
for air travelers. In just one year, the Social Flights network has grown to 
13,866 social fliers and 98 private aircraft operators, encompassing over 
600 aircraft available for charter opportunities to communities and 
individuals. www.socialflights.com.

About Branson AirExpress:
Branson AirExpress is an indirect air carrier providing public charter air 
flights, and offering vacation packages in Branson to its customers.  All 
flights are filed and approved by the Department of Transportation and 
operate under Part 380 CFR (Code of Federal Regulation). The company began 
providing scheduled Public Charter flights in 2009.  The idea behind Branson 
AirExpress is there are several markets that will be good air markets to 
Branson, but are not yet ready for main-line commercial service.  The 
Airport used Branson AirExpress to develop air-service markets for Airlines 
like AirTran prior to them taking over service in Chicago and Houston last 
year.  The new partnership with CFM will now enable Branson AirExpress to 
serve as a conduit to public-charter operators like CFM to serve markets 
like Austin and Milwaukee using the Brand that has been developed over the 
last several years to help sell seats on their charter flights.

About Corporate Flight Management:

CFM is one of the largest Part 135 private aviation companies in the USA 
operating 30+ aircraft in Smyrna, TN, Atlanta, GA and Danbury CT.  CFM is 
one of the highest rated private aviation companies with an ARGUS Platinum 
rating for outstanding quality standards in safety and operational 
excellence. CFM sells, services, trains, operates and provides a variety of 
air services and has done so successfully for the last 30 years. Employing 
close to 200 people and servicing over 250 flights per month makes CFM an 
outstanding aviation company with a long list of dedicated customers and 
loyal employees. www.flycfm.com



Peter Donahue


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From kayla.mattox at cox.net  Sat Mar 10 20:58:49 2012
From: kayla.mattox at cox.net (Kayla Paige)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 15:58:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
In-Reply-To: <4f5acfbb.451b340a.1115.ffffc8ee@mx.google.com>
References: <4f5acfbb.451b340a.1115.ffffc8ee@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <C55E0A3A-2BE4-482F-A080-9DC42928DAF5@cox.net>

Thanks, Chris.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 9, 2012, at 10:50 PM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Kayla,
> 
> PowerPoint is very accessible with JAWS.  To read text within a slide, you would open your presentation and page down to the slide you want and hit enter.  Then tab until JAWS says "body place holder" and hit enter.  You can then read the text.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Chris
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
> 
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net
> To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 18:42:00 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] PowerPoint and jaws
> 
> Hey, does anyone know if jaws will read text within a PowerPoint slide? If so, how would I read it?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kayla.mattox%40cox.net


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 21:55:35 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
In-Reply-To: <4f594737.246b340a.0edf.ffffdf74@mx.google.com>
References: <4f594737.246b340a.0edf.ffffdf74@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBqAi6R+tiiKmuxCgM_hAe6d5oHX635QoUpG70gwvpTPQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Vejas,
I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much out
of tactile diagrams. I do think attempting to understand tactile
diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills. But if
you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if you
can get verbal descriptions instead. I also found in my experience
that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.) is
not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you are
learning about.
You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is any
free tutoring available at your school. I'm sure you are not the only
student having difficulty following science concepts. If your school
has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your parents are
willing and able to pay them. I tutored a few chem students when I was
in high school.
A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how to
best explain the ideas to you.
Arielle

On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams have
> lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a lot,
> so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
> stands for.
> But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention to
> the diagrams.
> Vejas
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
> cluttered, then
> it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
> help you?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
>
>  Hi,
>  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
> My
>  teacher is OK, I guess.
>  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
> me, so I
>  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
> helped.
>  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers loves
> the way
>  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was a
> sighter
>  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
> stuff you
>  need? I have a test tomorrow.
>  Thanks for any input.
>  Vejas
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
> wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
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> mail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 22:01:34 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 15:01:34 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <CAMJOM=2EB5vjkEg0SLojdiJYOT+VzFf5kCJ-peAafqNVm+AeMQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJOM=2EB5vjkEg0SLojdiJYOT+VzFf5kCJ-peAafqNVm+AeMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJAsw879Pi3Y0KMUaK1Ti5NtMtO4nnUGVqep=Zyg8cEYGQ@mail.gmail.com>

I forget if I mentioned this earlier, but Mike Hingson sells the KNFB
Reader Mobile and he might still be able to sell you a Nokia phone
with Talks or MobileSpeak but without the KNFB Reader software. If you
google Michael Hingson he has a company webpage with contact info.
Arielle

On 3/9/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> if anyone needs help with iOS, let me know. Love my iTouch and iPhone, :)
>
> On 3/6/12, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Justin,
>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>> Katie
>>
>>
>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>
>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not sure
>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>
>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>
>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>
>>>> Justin
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Sent via gmail.com
> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
> Skype: joshgregory93
>  twitter: JoshG93
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com  Sat Mar 10 22:13:22 2012
From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 16:13:22 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Corrections to Social Flights Announcement
Message-ID: <006001ccff0b$01f1d1d0$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn>

Good afternoon again everyone,

    Here are a few corrections to the announcement about Social Flights and 
their services from Branson Missouri I sent earlier this afternoon:

1. Matt Slosky is the company's Chief Operating Officer not the CFO.
2. Air shuttle service between Smyrna and Knoxville Tennessee only operates 
on Fridays and Sundays. All the best.

Peter Donahue

Peter Donahue

 “No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper.”
Isaiah 54:17

 “While for our princes they prepare
In caverns deep a burning snare,
He shot from heaven a piercing ray,
And the dark treachery brought to day.”
Anonymous



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 22:24:52 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 15:24:52 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] mall travel and shops
In-Reply-To: <236141BF90C649F39572070233B44C0E@stanford.edu>
References: <163B22FF76B74D61A4636A66BB4F6A38@OwnerPC>
	<236141BF90C649F39572070233B44C0E@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDKMLrw5jcyph60G5=vgvB52qwhf4ZuMODO4kUz17p1MQ@mail.gmail.com>

Some malls have online store directories. If you google the name of
the mall, you can usually find a list of all the stores in the mall.
Even if you don't get location info from that list, it's helpful to
know the names of all the stores so you can decide which ones to look
for instead of just randomly browsing. Sometimes the directories are
divided into categories, i.e. men's clothing, women's clothing, shoes,
restaurants etc.
Arielle

On 3/5/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> JMHO, it is best to know the layout of the mall before you go. I find
> tactile maps helpful. I usually plan what stores I want to go to. I then try
> to go in that general direction and I ask for help if needed. Using floor
> texture is not reliable, especially if you are using a guide dog and not a
> cane.
> If you don't benefit from tactile maps, you could ask someone to write down
> the locations of stores. For example, if you come in door X and turn in
> direction Y, the first store on your right is A, the next is B, and so on
> with details like A has N number of entrances.
> One thing that you can sometimes use is music. Some stores play really
> distinctive music, but that does not always work, especially if there is a
> lot of noise, and it certainly does not work around Christmas because *all*
> of them are playing Christmas music.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2012 9:46 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] mall travel and shops
>
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> So I figured malls are a fun place to be with all sorts of things to buy
>> and eat and you can practice travel skills there in a safe closed
>> environment.
>>
>> What tips do you have for mall travel? How do you find the stores and
>> escalators? Are escalators generally in a  middle part of the mall? That
>> seems to be the case where I’ve been and the up escalator is opposite the
>> down one.
>>
>> I know you can just ask a random person where store x is, but that is
>> limiting as you do not get the layout and if you go to only store x you
>> might miss stores y and z since you were traveling to only store x. Hope
>> that makes sense; like if I went to Bloomingdales only and did not know
>> the other major stores I passed, I would miss say CVS and Foot locker.
>>
>> I cannot always read signs. Once I find the store, do you remember its
>> location by associating a landmark to it? How do you identify it other
>> than asking someone? Some stores have smells and I’ve used that as a clue;
>>
>> although it can be misleading as major department stores have different
>> smells. For instance, I can smell shoes, but this might be just a shoe
>> store or a shoe department of a larger store. It can mean two things.
>> Another idea I thought of is using the texture change of each store. Is
>> that a reliable clue or are stores so alike you cannot rely on it? I was
>> thinking you could say stores A B C have a wood surface with a carpet at
>> the entrance. Then stores D E F have smooth tile and small squares making
>> up the tile.
>>
>> Have you found it helpful to get a map and ask a sighted person to
>> describe and/or make a tactile picture of it for you?
>>
>> And, how do you know when one store ends and the next begins? They have
>> multiple entrances sometimes. thanks!
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From jty727 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 22:46:24 2012
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 17:46:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJAsw879Pi3Y0KMUaK1Ti5NtMtO4nnUGVqep=Zyg8cEYGQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJOM=2EB5vjkEg0SLojdiJYOT+VzFf5kCJ-peAafqNVm+AeMQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJAsw879Pi3Y0KMUaK1Ti5NtMtO4nnUGVqep=Zyg8cEYGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s6hAjExW6C+7JvbZM4fL63eQwkjf_9pG47BqS4AJQ1MTw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks so much Arielle!

On 3/10/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I forget if I mentioned this earlier, but Mike Hingson sells the KNFB
> Reader Mobile and he might still be able to sell you a Nokia phone
> with Talks or MobileSpeak but without the KNFB Reader software. If you
> google Michael Hingson he has a company webpage with contact info.
> Arielle
>
> On 3/9/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> if anyone needs help with iOS, let me know. Love my iTouch and iPhone, :)
>>
>> On 3/6/12, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Justin,
>>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>>> Katie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not sure
>>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>>
>>>>> Justin
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via gmail.com
>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>> Skype: joshgregory93
>>  twitter: JoshG93
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 22:53:47 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 17:53:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
Message-ID: <4f5bdba6.47d5e00a.6f95.1d62@mx.google.com>

Great question, Winona! In fact, I had the same question; how do 
we as blind people handle school dances as independently as we 
can? I look forward to hearing everybody's responses!

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
Subject: [Blindtlk] prom

Hi everyone,

I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.

Winona

trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com

 "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
-Ivan Panin

"Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden

_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for blindtlk:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
aum%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 22:53:49 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 17:53:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] prom
Message-ID: <4f5bdba8.47d5e00a.6f95.1d66@mx.google.com>

So what are these "unacceptable dancing" rules? What is "freak 
dancing?"

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 22:57:27 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] prom

You're lucky.  I never went to my senior prom at all.  I couldn't
because of a secondary disability my parents were unable to
properly detect.  Also, my mother said it was for dating couples
only.  At least you're getting a date with a friend.  Have fun.
I don't know anything about proms, but beware the "unacceptable
dance" rules.  The school I went to had an unacceptable dancing
policy against "freak dancing."  It was interesfting because
people backed out of homecoming, and they were kicked out because
of it.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] prom

Hi everyone,

I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.

Winona

trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com

 "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
-Ivan Panin

"Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
se%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com


From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Sat Mar 10 23:20:14 2012
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 16:20:14 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] prom
Message-ID: <4f5be1bc.a123440a.37ab.65fd@mx.google.com>

Unacceptable dancing includes whuat we call freak dancing, which 
consists of teenagers "simulating sex acts."  Swinging hips is 
not freak dancing, but the bump and grind is.  I have heard 
school administrations pulling people off the floor for freak 
dancing.  I'm sorry if that answer gets a stirring from the 
moderators, but it's best to be explained as well as it needs to 
be.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 17:53:49 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] prom

So what are these "unacceptable dancing" rules? What is "freak
dancing?"

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 22:57:27 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] prom

You're lucky.  I never went to my senior prom at all.  I couldn't
because of a secondary disability my parents were unable to
properly detect.  Also, my mother said it was for dating couples
only.  At least you're getting a date with a friend.  Have fun.
I don't know anything about proms, but beware the "unacceptable
dance" rules.  The school I went to had an unacceptable dancing
policy against "freak dancing."  It was interesfting because
people backed out of homecoming, and they were kicked out because
of it.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] prom

Hi everyone,

I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.

Winona

trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com

 "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
-Ivan Panin

"Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
se%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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se%40gmail.com


From hope.paulos at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 01:28:14 2012
From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:28:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com><7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC><CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com><CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com><CAMJOM=2EB5vjkEg0SLojdiJYOT+VzFf5kCJ-peAafqNVm+AeMQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJAsw879Pi3Y0KMUaK1Ti5NtMtO4nnUGVqep=Zyg8cEYGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8ED64B64B6284779AE61F17A4D3E3784@Espy>

I use an HTC S 743 with Mobile Speak and Mobile Geo (Code Factory's GPS 
software). It has a regular number keypad and a pull-out qwerty keyboard. 
Everything is accessible.
Hope Paulos
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender


>I forget if I mentioned this earlier, but Mike Hingson sells the KNFB
> Reader Mobile and he might still be able to sell you a Nokia phone
> with Talks or MobileSpeak but without the KNFB Reader software. If you
> google Michael Hingson he has a company webpage with contact info.
> Arielle
>
> On 3/9/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> if anyone needs help with iOS, let me know. Love my iTouch and iPhone, :)
>>
>> On 3/6/12, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Justin,
>>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>>> Katie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not 
>>>>> sure
>>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>>
>>>>> Justin
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via gmail.com
>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>> Skype: joshgregory93
>>  twitter: JoshG93
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 11 02:09:43 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 21:09:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
In-Reply-To: <4f5bdba6.47d5e00a.6f95.1d62@mx.google.com>
References: <4f5bdba6.47d5e00a.6f95.1d62@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <A56F0F64F16D4A5C924EF1402063B225@OwnerPC>

well, you cannot exactly take your cane on the dance floor. So go sighted 
guide with your date or friend. Then just follow their lead if you are a 
girl. If you are the guy, you have to learn to lead. Also free form dance is 
just a mix of moves like moving to the left, right forward and raising your 
hands up.
Someone could show you some typical dances beforehand; like YMCA has a few 
hand moves; so does Macarena. But lots of this is free form and hip hop 
dance with no particular move.
But yep, Chris, its hard to go to a big crowded dance being low vision or 
blind.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:53 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List ; nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom

Great question, Winona! In fact, I had the same question; how do
we as blind people handle school dances as independently as we
can? I look forward to hearing everybody's responses!

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

----- Original Message -----
From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
Subject: [Blindtlk] prom

Hi everyone,

I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.

Winona

trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com

"For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
-Ivan Panin

"Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden

_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for blindtlk:
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aum%40gmail.com

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 11 02:10:27 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 21:10:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] prom
In-Reply-To: <4f5be1bc.a123440a.37ab.65fd@mx.google.com>
References: <4f5be1bc.a123440a.37ab.65fd@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <2C3D709BAC07431CBD85F93BFD04DB93@OwnerPC>

yep, that would be an outlawed dance around these public schools.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Beth
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 6:20 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] prom

Unacceptable dancing includes whuat we call freak dancing, which
consists of teenagers "simulating sex acts."  Swinging hips is
not freak dancing, but the bump and grind is.  I have heard
school administrations pulling people off the floor for freak
dancing.  I'm sorry if that answer gets a stirring from the
moderators, but it's best to be explained as well as it needs to
be.
Beth

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 17:53:49 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] prom

So what are these "unacceptable dancing" rules? What is "freak
dancing?"

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

----- Original Message -----
From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 22:57:27 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] prom

You're lucky.  I never went to my senior prom at all.  I couldn't
because of a secondary disability my parents were unable to
properly detect.  Also, my mother said it was for dating couples
only.  At least you're getting a date with a friend.  Have fun.
I don't know anything about proms, but beware the "unacceptable
dance" rules.  The school I went to had an unacceptable dancing
policy against "freak dancing."  It was interesfting because
people backed out of homecoming, and they were kicked out because
of it.
Beth

----- Original Message -----
From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] prom

Hi everyone,

I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.

Winona

trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com

"For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
-Ivan Panin

"Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
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se%40gmail.com

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m%40gmail.com

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se%40gmail.com

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 11 03:16:07 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 22:16:07 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
In-Reply-To: <4f58403c.6745340a.5171.247f@mx.google.com>
References: <4f58403c.6745340a.5171.247f@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <653E7B0A9B194CDFA4CC79B001EC5711@OwnerPC>

Hi Vejas,
Woe, what a lot of questions. First about tutoring and how a sighted person 
can help.
Of course a sighted person can help. A lot of tutoring is about questions, 
answers and going over material. So they can do this with you. Instead of
them reading to  you, you can read along with them. To look up info though, 
they will have to know the braille page numbers.

You might get an honors student to tutor you or if your parents can afford 
it, hire a private tutor.
Yes I most definitely have had tutoring. I had it in math and science 
classes such as chemistry.
My parents were able to pay a tutor for it. Unfortunately my teachers were 
not much help even though I asked for it after school.

What kind of help depends on your area of difficulty and how you learn. For 
me, I learn kenestetically and haptically; meaning I need to do something or 
touch something to learn it. I just cannot listen and learn it.
So what I did to understand chemistry with my tutor was this and it may work 
for biology:
1. We went over the terms and I wrote definitions in my own words.
2. He explained how to do the formulas and we practiced; I used large print, 
but if you read braille, he/she just dictates what to write down and you 
practice and you read it back to them since they cannot see your work.
3. We just reviewed concepts by explanation. He would give examples of 
stuff; like we studied decomposition and he gave an example of it.
4. When diagrams were needed he explained them and I had a large print copy, 
but yours can be tactile.
5. He quizzed me on concepts and if I missed something I wrote it down and 
studied it more.


With respect to diagrams, your teacher will love them. Some concepts you can 
learn without them. Others you might want to try and use them.
Have a tactile diagram with labels otherwise you don't know what they mean.
Get an explanation with it. Best to have someone explain it as you touch it. 
For instance, touch the ribbosome of the cell and the person says, those are 
ribosomes and they perform xx function.
I think diagrams will help if you have an explanation. Another idea is to 
get
a model made. You can do this with your tutor or teacher after school if 
they will help you.
Make a model out of objects. When I took biology in college we made a model 
of DNA from magnets.
You can use daily objects like popsickle sticks, pipe cleaners straw, and 
beads. If you give us an idea of the specific topics you cannot understand, 
I might be able to suggest ways to learn and build a model of the concept.

I didn't like bio much; a lot of it is memorization. So you might find flash 
cards helpful; write a term on  one side and then write explaination on the 
other side.

Teachers will definitely like diagrams. But they can and should be willing 
to teach you differently by verbal descriptions. And if they cannot, IMO 
they are not a good teacher. When I took bio in college, the professor was 
so much better than high school she explained stuff to me and described 
diagrams and the processes much better.

Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: vejas
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 12:14 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org ; blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Hi,
I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
My teacher is OK, I guess.
Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help me,
so I don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have
not helped.
Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers loves
the way diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring?
How was a sighter person able to help you, because it's sometimes
hard to explain stuff you need? I have a test tomorrow.
Thanks for any input.
Vejas

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From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 03:32:34 2012
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 21:32:34 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
In-Reply-To: <A56F0F64F16D4A5C924EF1402063B225@OwnerPC>
References: <4f5bdba6.47d5e00a.6f95.1d62@mx.google.com>
	<A56F0F64F16D4A5C924EF1402063B225@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAHox4DJwboO5Z8gC1G_Uh1GNP=Mhb+uvnHqRoa9G33RaL-+_Ww@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone.

I attended Home Coming almost every year as well as my senior prom
when i was in high school.  I have to admit, I didn't like the crowds,
and the music wasn't really my taste, but I loved being able to hang
out with my friends before and during the dance.  I always went with a
big group, and we had a kind of pact that we would not leave each
other, so we all took care to know where the others were.  They took
turns sighted guiding since the cane would only trip others on the
dance floor, and I never took my dog to dances once I got her.  I
would recommend discussing with your date and possibly a couple
friends before hand to make sure they understand how to guide you in a
big crowd.  Personally, I found dances extremely disorienting because
I am low vision, and the lighting is terrible, the crowd enormous, and
the noise level is...  too much.

Also, food is served at a lot of proms.  At ours there is a buffet,
and my friends were able to help me through with no problem.  I
recommend figuring out what will be happening with regards to food
ahead of time.  A little note about prom food...  It's not the best,
so if they are serving food, depending on your tastes, going out for a
snack afterwords would not be a bad idea.

I was always embarrassed to dance at the prom, but my friends always
told me not to worry.  Just get out there, and have fun.  Have your
date and/or your friends show you some dances and help you through,
and you'll have a great time.  Good luck.

On 3/10/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> well, you cannot exactly take your cane on the dance floor. So go sighted
> guide with your date or friend. Then just follow their lead if you are a
> girl. If you are the guy, you have to learn to lead. Also free form dance is
> just a mix of moves like moving to the left, right forward and raising your
> hands up.
> Someone could show you some typical dances beforehand; like YMCA has a few
> hand moves; so does Macarena. But lots of this is free form and hip hop
> dance with no particular move.
> But yep, Chris, its hard to go to a big crowded dance being low vision or
> blind.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:53 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List ; nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>
> Great question, Winona! In fact, I had the same question; how do
> we as blind people handle school dances as independently as we
> can? I look forward to hearing everybody's responses!
>
> Chris
>
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
> nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
> Subject: [Blindtlk] prom
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
> So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
> doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
> it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
> and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
> and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
> guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
> don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.
>
> Winona
>
> trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>
> "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
> every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
> there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
> -Ivan Panin
>
> "Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
> self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
> you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
> aum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
 Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
Eyes for the Blind

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 03:35:45 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 22:35:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] fw: Brailliant Braille display now supported by iOS 5.1
Message-ID: <4f5c1dbd.080ae00a.0c5d.304a@mx.google.com>

FYI:

 ---- Original Message ------
From: HumanWare <marcom at humanware.com
Subject: HumanWare Brailliant Braille Display now supported with 
iOS 5.1
Date sent: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 21:51:58 -0500

A Winning Combination

Apple just announced a new iOS version for their line of 
iDevices.  This
new iOS version brings new excitement and new features, along 
with new
support for HumanWare's Brailliant braille displays.  After 
updating
your iDevice to version 5.1, wirelessly connect your iDevice to a
HumanWare Brailliant display and take advantage of the sleek 
design, high
quality braille cells, and ergonomic keyboard and thumb keys that 
have
been adored by BrailleNote Apex users.  Whether you are using a 
new
Brailliant braille display, or a BrailleNote Apex, 								control your
iDevice with the braille input keys, read messages, emails, or 
iBooks,
and type responses or documents in contracted or uncontracted
braille,										all without the 
touch screen of 
the iDevice.

Brailliant braille displays come in 32, 40, or 80 cell models.

For more information about the new HumanWare Brailliant display, 
please
visit:
											
www.humanware.c
om/en-usa/produ
cts/blindness/b
raille_displays

or contact your local HumanWare representative.

													U.S.
													Tel: 
800.722.3393
												Canada
													Tel: 
888.723.7273

Unsubscribe 
http://visit.humanware.com/unsubscribe/u/3332/d45ff76efa2b26dd4a8
021f4cc94cbe8/385852708 from our newsletter.




From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 11 04:45:26 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 23:45:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DJwboO5Z8gC1G_Uh1GNP=Mhb+uvnHqRoa9G33RaL-+_Ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f5bdba6.47d5e00a.6f95.1d62@mx.google.com><A56F0F64F16D4A5C924EF1402063B225@OwnerPC>
	<CAHox4DJwboO5Z8gC1G_Uh1GNP=Mhb+uvnHqRoa9G33RaL-+_Ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <150F0DBE56F24F19A01B967D0A3B5486@OwnerPC>

Yes, I agree the crowd and loud music and lighting makes it disorienting. 
With low vision, it messes the contrast we use up. And the loud music makes 
it impossible to use open spaces as landmarks. I recommend using a guide as 
well. Have your cane stored in a secure place nearby.  Maybe by a table or 
corner.
Yes just try and have fun there.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Julie McGinnity
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 10:32 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom

Hi everyone.

I attended Home Coming almost every year as well as my senior prom
when i was in high school.  I have to admit, I didn't like the crowds,
and the music wasn't really my taste, but I loved being able to hang
out with my friends before and during the dance.  I always went with a
big group, and we had a kind of pact that we would not leave each
other, so we all took care to know where the others were.  They took
turns sighted guiding since the cane would only trip others on the
dance floor, and I never took my dog to dances once I got her.  I
would recommend discussing with your date and possibly a couple
friends before hand to make sure they understand how to guide you in a
big crowd.  Personally, I found dances extremely disorienting because
I am low vision, and the lighting is terrible, the crowd enormous, and
the noise level is...  too much.

Also, food is served at a lot of proms.  At ours there is a buffet,
and my friends were able to help me through with no problem.  I
recommend figuring out what will be happening with regards to food
ahead of time.  A little note about prom food...  It's not the best,
so if they are serving food, depending on your tastes, going out for a
snack afterwords would not be a bad idea.

I was always embarrassed to dance at the prom, but my friends always
told me not to worry.  Just get out there, and have fun.  Have your
date and/or your friends show you some dances and help you through,
and you'll have a great time.  Good luck.

On 3/10/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> well, you cannot exactly take your cane on the dance floor. So go sighted
> guide with your date or friend. Then just follow their lead if you are a
> girl. If you are the guy, you have to learn to lead. Also free form dance 
> is
> just a mix of moves like moving to the left, right forward and raising 
> your
> hands up.
> Someone could show you some typical dances beforehand; like YMCA has a few
> hand moves; so does Macarena. But lots of this is free form and hip hop
> dance with no particular move.
> But yep, Chris, its hard to go to a big crowded dance being low vision or
> blind.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:53 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List ; nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>
> Great question, Winona! In fact, I had the same question; how do
> we as blind people handle school dances as independently as we
> can? I look forward to hearing everybody's responses!
>
> Chris
>
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
> nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
> Subject: [Blindtlk] prom
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
> So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
> doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
> it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
> and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
> and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
> guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
> don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.
>
> Winona
>
> trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>
> "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
> every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
> there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
> -Ivan Panin
>
> "Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
> self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
> you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden
>
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
> aum%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
Eyes for the Blind

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sun Mar 11 04:50:57 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 20:50:57 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
References: <4f5bdba6.47d5e00a.6f95.1d62@mx.google.com><A56F0F64F16D4A5C924EF1402063B225@OwnerPC><CAHox4DJwboO5Z8gC1G_Uh1GNP=Mhb+uvnHqRoa9G33RaL-+_Ww@mail.gmail.com>
	<150F0DBE56F24F19A01B967D0A3B5486@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <02A0579F944A43488B0F301D6E4D9DA4@stanford.edu>

Or, a solution for the ladies who carry a purse, is to have one of those 
smaller folding canes and keep it on your person at all times.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom


> Yes, I agree the crowd and loud music and lighting makes it disorienting. 
> With low vision, it messes the contrast we use up. And the loud music 
> makes it impossible to use open spaces as landmarks. I recommend using a 
> guide as well. Have your cane stored in a secure place nearby.  Maybe by a 
> table or corner.
> Yes just try and have fun there.
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Julie McGinnity
> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 10:32 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>
> Hi everyone.
>
> I attended Home Coming almost every year as well as my senior prom
> when i was in high school.  I have to admit, I didn't like the crowds,
> and the music wasn't really my taste, but I loved being able to hang
> out with my friends before and during the dance.  I always went with a
> big group, and we had a kind of pact that we would not leave each
> other, so we all took care to know where the others were.  They took
> turns sighted guiding since the cane would only trip others on the
> dance floor, and I never took my dog to dances once I got her.  I
> would recommend discussing with your date and possibly a couple
> friends before hand to make sure they understand how to guide you in a
> big crowd.  Personally, I found dances extremely disorienting because
> I am low vision, and the lighting is terrible, the crowd enormous, and
> the noise level is...  too much.
>
> Also, food is served at a lot of proms.  At ours there is a buffet,
> and my friends were able to help me through with no problem.  I
> recommend figuring out what will be happening with regards to food
> ahead of time.  A little note about prom food...  It's not the best,
> so if they are serving food, depending on your tastes, going out for a
> snack afterwords would not be a bad idea.
>
> I was always embarrassed to dance at the prom, but my friends always
> told me not to worry.  Just get out there, and have fun.  Have your
> date and/or your friends show you some dances and help you through,
> and you'll have a great time.  Good luck.
>
> On 3/10/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> well, you cannot exactly take your cane on the dance floor. So go sighted
>> guide with your date or friend. Then just follow their lead if you are a
>> girl. If you are the guy, you have to learn to lead. Also free form dance 
>> is
>> just a mix of moves like moving to the left, right forward and raising 
>> your
>> hands up.
>> Someone could show you some typical dances beforehand; like YMCA has a 
>> few
>> hand moves; so does Macarena. But lots of this is free form and hip hop
>> dance with no particular move.
>> But yep, Chris, its hard to go to a big crowded dance being low vision or
>> blind.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:53 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List ; nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>>
>> Great question, Winona! In fact, I had the same question; how do
>> we as blind people handle school dances as independently as we
>> can? I look forward to hearing everybody's responses!
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>> nuisance."
>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] prom
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
>> So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
>> doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
>> it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
>> and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
>> and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
>> guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
>> don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.
>>
>> Winona
>>
>> trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>>
>> "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
>> every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
>> there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
>> -Ivan Panin
>>
>> "Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
>> self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
>> you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
>> aum%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Julie McG
> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
> Eyes for the Blind
>
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 05:04:22 2012
From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 00:04:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
In-Reply-To: <02A0579F944A43488B0F301D6E4D9DA4@stanford.edu>
References: <4f5bdba6.47d5e00a.6f95.1d62@mx.google.com>
	<A56F0F64F16D4A5C924EF1402063B225@OwnerPC>
	<CAHox4DJwboO5Z8gC1G_Uh1GNP=Mhb+uvnHqRoa9G33RaL-+_Ww@mail.gmail.com>
	<150F0DBE56F24F19A01B967D0A3B5486@OwnerPC>
	<02A0579F944A43488B0F301D6E4D9DA4@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <CAN+-G_DcsSBGELCbdzTw969qm+yn7GZDp-DEgJPD-cU3-zAruA@mail.gmail.com>

What's the best thing to do with a folding cane at any dance? Do you
fold it up and carry it with you, or do you fold it up and leave it
somewhere, then go dance, and when you want to leave, go and get it?
Patrick

On 3/10/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Or, a solution for the ladies who carry a purse, is to have one of those
> smaller folding canes and keep it on your person at all times.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 8:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>
>
>> Yes, I agree the crowd and loud music and lighting makes it disorienting.
>> With low vision, it messes the contrast we use up. And the loud music
>> makes it impossible to use open spaces as landmarks. I recommend using a
>> guide as well. Have your cane stored in a secure place nearby.  Maybe by a
>>
>> table or corner.
>> Yes just try and have fun there.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Julie McGinnity
>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 10:32 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>>
>> Hi everyone.
>>
>> I attended Home Coming almost every year as well as my senior prom
>> when i was in high school.  I have to admit, I didn't like the crowds,
>> and the music wasn't really my taste, but I loved being able to hang
>> out with my friends before and during the dance.  I always went with a
>> big group, and we had a kind of pact that we would not leave each
>> other, so we all took care to know where the others were.  They took
>> turns sighted guiding since the cane would only trip others on the
>> dance floor, and I never took my dog to dances once I got her.  I
>> would recommend discussing with your date and possibly a couple
>> friends before hand to make sure they understand how to guide you in a
>> big crowd.  Personally, I found dances extremely disorienting because
>> I am low vision, and the lighting is terrible, the crowd enormous, and
>> the noise level is...  too much.
>>
>> Also, food is served at a lot of proms.  At ours there is a buffet,
>> and my friends were able to help me through with no problem.  I
>> recommend figuring out what will be happening with regards to food
>> ahead of time.  A little note about prom food...  It's not the best,
>> so if they are serving food, depending on your tastes, going out for a
>> snack afterwords would not be a bad idea.
>>
>> I was always embarrassed to dance at the prom, but my friends always
>> told me not to worry.  Just get out there, and have fun.  Have your
>> date and/or your friends show you some dances and help you through,
>> and you'll have a great time.  Good luck.
>>
>> On 3/10/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> well, you cannot exactly take your cane on the dance floor. So go sighted
>>> guide with your date or friend. Then just follow their lead if you are a
>>> girl. If you are the guy, you have to learn to lead. Also free form dance
>>>
>>> is
>>> just a mix of moves like moving to the left, right forward and raising
>>> your
>>> hands up.
>>> Someone could show you some typical dances beforehand; like YMCA has a
>>> few
>>> hand moves; so does Macarena. But lots of this is free form and hip hop
>>> dance with no particular move.
>>> But yep, Chris, its hard to go to a big crowded dance being low vision or
>>> blind.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:53 PM
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List ; nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>>>
>>> Great question, Winona! In fact, I had the same question; how do
>>> we as blind people handle school dances as independently as we
>>> can? I look forward to hearing everybody's responses!
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>> nuisance."
>>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] prom
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
>>> So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
>>> doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
>>> it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
>>> and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
>>> and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
>>> guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
>>> don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.
>>>
>>> Winona
>>>
>>> trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>>>
>>> "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
>>> every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
>>> there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
>>> -Ivan Panin
>>>
>>> "Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
>>> self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
>>> you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for blindtlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
>>> aum%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>> Eyes for the Blind
>>
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>


From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 05:50:42 2012
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 23:50:42 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
In-Reply-To: <CAN+-G_DcsSBGELCbdzTw969qm+yn7GZDp-DEgJPD-cU3-zAruA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f5bdba6.47d5e00a.6f95.1d62@mx.google.com>
	<A56F0F64F16D4A5C924EF1402063B225@OwnerPC>
	<CAHox4DJwboO5Z8gC1G_Uh1GNP=Mhb+uvnHqRoa9G33RaL-+_Ww@mail.gmail.com>
	<150F0DBE56F24F19A01B967D0A3B5486@OwnerPC>
	<02A0579F944A43488B0F301D6E4D9DA4@stanford.edu>
	<CAN+-G_DcsSBGELCbdzTw969qm+yn7GZDp-DEgJPD-cU3-zAruA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHox4D+pyqW6BwjcvdouDA=Vhr4bEgH+8TgFrOErc=Pf2b8FGQ@mail.gmail.com>

I always left it with the coat check people just outside the cafiteria
where we had our dances.  Keeping it in your purse is a good idea,
unless you are a guy, or you can't find a purse to match your dress.
I always wore colorful dresses, so I could never find a purse to go
with them.

I'm not sure what I'd recommend because both ways, you are at a
disadvantage.  Carry the cane with you, and you have it when you need
it, but your hands aren't free, and it gets in the way, but if you
keep it somewhere, you run the risk of not being able to find it.  It
depends on whatever you're most comfortable with.  again easily.

On 3/10/12, Patrick Molloy <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com> wrote:
> What's the best thing to do with a folding cane at any dance? Do you
> fold it up and carry it with you, or do you fold it up and leave it
> somewhere, then go dance, and when you want to leave, go and get it?
> Patrick
>
> On 3/10/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> Or, a solution for the ladies who carry a purse, is to have one of those
>> smaller folding canes and keep it on your person at all times.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 8:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>>
>>
>>> Yes, I agree the crowd and loud music and lighting makes it disorienting.
>>> With low vision, it messes the contrast we use up. And the loud music
>>> makes it impossible to use open spaces as landmarks. I recommend using a
>>> guide as well. Have your cane stored in a secure place nearby.  Maybe by
>>> a
>>>
>>> table or corner.
>>> Yes just try and have fun there.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Julie McGinnity
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 10:32 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>>>
>>> Hi everyone.
>>>
>>> I attended Home Coming almost every year as well as my senior prom
>>> when i was in high school.  I have to admit, I didn't like the crowds,
>>> and the music wasn't really my taste, but I loved being able to hang
>>> out with my friends before and during the dance.  I always went with a
>>> big group, and we had a kind of pact that we would not leave each
>>> other, so we all took care to know where the others were.  They took
>>> turns sighted guiding since the cane would only trip others on the
>>> dance floor, and I never took my dog to dances once I got her.  I
>>> would recommend discussing with your date and possibly a couple
>>> friends before hand to make sure they understand how to guide you in a
>>> big crowd.  Personally, I found dances extremely disorienting because
>>> I am low vision, and the lighting is terrible, the crowd enormous, and
>>> the noise level is...  too much.
>>>
>>> Also, food is served at a lot of proms.  At ours there is a buffet,
>>> and my friends were able to help me through with no problem.  I
>>> recommend figuring out what will be happening with regards to food
>>> ahead of time.  A little note about prom food...  It's not the best,
>>> so if they are serving food, depending on your tastes, going out for a
>>> snack afterwords would not be a bad idea.
>>>
>>> I was always embarrassed to dance at the prom, but my friends always
>>> told me not to worry.  Just get out there, and have fun.  Have your
>>> date and/or your friends show you some dances and help you through,
>>> and you'll have a great time.  Good luck.
>>>
>>> On 3/10/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> well, you cannot exactly take your cane on the dance floor. So go
>>>> sighted
>>>> guide with your date or friend. Then just follow their lead if you are a
>>>> girl. If you are the guy, you have to learn to lead. Also free form
>>>> dance
>>>>
>>>> is
>>>> just a mix of moves like moving to the left, right forward and raising
>>>> your
>>>> hands up.
>>>> Someone could show you some typical dances beforehand; like YMCA has a
>>>> few
>>>> hand moves; so does Macarena. But lots of this is free form and hip hop
>>>> dance with no particular move.
>>>> But yep, Chris, its hard to go to a big crowded dance being low vision
>>>> or
>>>> blind.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:53 PM
>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List ; nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>>>>
>>>> Great question, Winona! In fact, I had the same question; how do
>>>> we as blind people handle school dances as independently as we
>>>> can? I look forward to hearing everybody's responses!
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>>>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>>>
>>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>>> nuisance."
>>>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] prom
>>>>
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
>>>> So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
>>>> doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
>>>> it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
>>>> and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
>>>> and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
>>>> guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
>>>> don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.
>>>>
>>>> Winona
>>>>
>>>> trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
>>>> every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
>>>> there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
>>>> -Ivan Panin
>>>>
>>>> "Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
>>>> self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
>>>> you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for blindtlk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
>>>> aum%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Julie McG
>>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>>> Eyes for the Blind
>>>
>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>> life."
>>> John 3:16
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McG
 Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
Eyes for the Blind

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From ignasicambra at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 05:50:42 2012
From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 00:50:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DJwboO5Z8gC1G_Uh1GNP=Mhb+uvnHqRoa9G33RaL-+_Ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f5bdba6.47d5e00a.6f95.1d62@mx.google.com>
	<A56F0F64F16D4A5C924EF1402063B225@OwnerPC>
	<CAHox4DJwboO5Z8gC1G_Uh1GNP=Mhb+uvnHqRoa9G33RaL-+_Ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <-10210552985893273@unknownmsgid>

I completely agree. As long as you have some good friends around these
things are just fine. If you really want to you can learn some dance
moves, but you don't even have to do that. The whole point of a prom
is to have fun with your friends, and doing that should be no problem
for you, blind or not.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:33 PM, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi everyone.
>
> I attended Home Coming almost every year as well as my senior prom
> when i was in high school.  I have to admit, I didn't like the crowds,
> and the music wasn't really my taste, but I loved being able to hang
> out with my friends before and during the dance.  I always went with a
> big group, and we had a kind of pact that we would not leave each
> other, so we all took care to know where the others were.  They took
> turns sighted guiding since the cane would only trip others on the
> dance floor, and I never took my dog to dances once I got her.  I
> would recommend discussing with your date and possibly a couple
> friends before hand to make sure they understand how to guide you in a
> big crowd.  Personally, I found dances extremely disorienting because
> I am low vision, and the lighting is terrible, the crowd enormous, and
> the noise level is...  too much.
>
> Also, food is served at a lot of proms.  At ours there is a buffet,
> and my friends were able to help me through with no problem.  I
> recommend figuring out what will be happening with regards to food
> ahead of time.  A little note about prom food...  It's not the best,
> so if they are serving food, depending on your tastes, going out for a
> snack afterwords would not be a bad idea.
>
> I was always embarrassed to dance at the prom, but my friends always
> told me not to worry.  Just get out there, and have fun.  Have your
> date and/or your friends show you some dances and help you through,
> and you'll have a great time.  Good luck.
>
> On 3/10/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> well, you cannot exactly take your cane on the dance floor. So go sighted
>> guide with your date or friend. Then just follow their lead if you are a
>> girl. If you are the guy, you have to learn to lead. Also free form dance is
>> just a mix of moves like moving to the left, right forward and raising your
>> hands up.
>> Someone could show you some typical dances beforehand; like YMCA has a few
>> hand moves; so does Macarena. But lots of this is free form and hip hop
>> dance with no particular move.
>> But yep, Chris, its hard to go to a big crowded dance being low vision or
>> blind.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:53 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List ; nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>>
>> Great question, Winona! In fact, I had the same question; how do
>> we as blind people handle school dances as independently as we
>> can? I look forward to hearing everybody's responses!
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>> nuisance."
>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] prom
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
>> So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
>> doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
>> it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
>> and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
>> and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
>> guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
>> don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.
>>
>> Winona
>>
>> trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>>
>> "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
>> every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
>> there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
>> -Ivan Panin
>>
>> "Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
>> self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
>> you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
>> aum%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Julie McG
> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
> Eyes for the Blind
>
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com


From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 06:19:42 2012
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 22:19:42 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] marrie's mash up tomorrow
Message-ID: <B0F0C861-577C-4617-A127-283391900B2A@gmail.com>

If the time change does not get me marrie's mash up will be on tomorrow, or when you get this march 11 from 3 pm to 5 pm eastern. We will be featuring music from 1960 to 1980s. and maybe a surprise or two.

place: http://listen.ultrastreams.us:8022/stream.m3u
time: sundays from 3 to 5 pm eastern

Remember this is temporary until we get more DJ's so enjoy it whilst  you can and if you want to apply visit http://wics.cc and give the test form a shot.   YOu never know.

Enjoy and hope to see you there.


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sun Mar 11 10:18:15 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 05:18:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DJwboO5Z8gC1G_Uh1GNP=Mhb+uvnHqRoa9G33RaL-+_Ww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f5bdba6.47d5e00a.6f95.1d62@mx.google.com>
	<A56F0F64F16D4A5C924EF1402063B225@OwnerPC>
	<CAHox4DJwboO5Z8gC1G_Uh1GNP=Mhb+uvnHqRoa9G33RaL-+_Ww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOsC_CzsCS1fRhZ8o9MsXdrzWbAzrzDei=ny23Zs9Hj3CA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Julie!
Your school must have been a large one, because at the proms I
attended, (DeWitt High School,) food wasn't served.
We had to go to a restaurant, before prom.
It depends on the town.
I hate some parts of being in a small town, and that's one of them!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/10/12, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone.
>
> I attended Home Coming almost every year as well as my senior prom
> when i was in high school.  I have to admit, I didn't like the crowds,
> and the music wasn't really my taste, but I loved being able to hang
> out with my friends before and during the dance.  I always went with a
> big group, and we had a kind of pact that we would not leave each
> other, so we all took care to know where the others were.  They took
> turns sighted guiding since the cane would only trip others on the
> dance floor, and I never took my dog to dances once I got her.  I
> would recommend discussing with your date and possibly a couple
> friends before hand to make sure they understand how to guide you in a
> big crowd.  Personally, I found dances extremely disorienting because
> I am low vision, and the lighting is terrible, the crowd enormous, and
> the noise level is...  too much.
>
> Also, food is served at a lot of proms.  At ours there is a buffet,
> and my friends were able to help me through with no problem.  I
> recommend figuring out what will be happening with regards to food
> ahead of time.  A little note about prom food...  It's not the best,
> so if they are serving food, depending on your tastes, going out for a
> snack afterwords would not be a bad idea.
>
> I was always embarrassed to dance at the prom, but my friends always
> told me not to worry.  Just get out there, and have fun.  Have your
> date and/or your friends show you some dances and help you through,
> and you'll have a great time.  Good luck.
>
> On 3/10/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> well, you cannot exactly take your cane on the dance floor. So go sighted
>> guide with your date or friend. Then just follow their lead if you are a
>> girl. If you are the guy, you have to learn to lead. Also free form dance
>> is
>> just a mix of moves like moving to the left, right forward and raising
>> your
>> hands up.
>> Someone could show you some typical dances beforehand; like YMCA has a few
>> hand moves; so does Macarena. But lots of this is free form and hip hop
>> dance with no particular move.
>> But yep, Chris, its hard to go to a big crowded dance being low vision or
>> blind.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:53 PM
>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List ; nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>>
>> Great question, Winona! In fact, I had the same question; how do
>> we as blind people handle school dances as independently as we
>> can? I look forward to hearing everybody's responses!
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>> nuisance."
>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] prom
>>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
>> So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
>> doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
>> it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
>> and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
>> and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
>> guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
>> don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.
>>
>> Winona
>>
>> trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>>
>> "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
>> every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
>> there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
>> -Ivan Panin
>>
>> "Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
>> self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
>> you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> blindtlk mailing list
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for blindtlk:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
>> aum%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Julie McG
>  Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
> Eyes for the Blind
>
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 11 14:28:16 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 10:28:16 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
In-Reply-To: <CAN+-G_DcsSBGELCbdzTw969qm+yn7GZDp-DEgJPD-cU3-zAruA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f5bdba6.47d5e00a.6f95.1d62@mx.google.com><A56F0F64F16D4A5C924EF1402063B225@OwnerPC><CAHox4DJwboO5Z8gC1G_Uh1GNP=Mhb+uvnHqRoa9G33RaL-+_Ww@mail.gmail.com><150F0DBE56F24F19A01B967D0A3B5486@OwnerPC><02A0579F944A43488B0F301D6E4D9DA4@stanford.edu>
	<CAN+-G_DcsSBGELCbdzTw969qm+yn7GZDp-DEgJPD-cU3-zAruA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DEF92719D70E4C5093EDFEFA10F797DD@OwnerPC>

I leave it somewhere and go dance; although its more recognizable if you 
don't fold it up.
You can prop it against something and its out of the way.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Patrick Molloy
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 12:04 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom

What's the best thing to do with a folding cane at any dance? Do you
fold it up and carry it with you, or do you fold it up and leave it
somewhere, then go dance, and when you want to leave, go and get it?
Patrick

On 3/10/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Or, a solution for the ladies who carry a purse, is to have one of those
> smaller folding canes and keep it on your person at all times.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 8:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>
>
>> Yes, I agree the crowd and loud music and lighting makes it disorienting.
>> With low vision, it messes the contrast we use up. And the loud music
>> makes it impossible to use open spaces as landmarks. I recommend using a
>> guide as well. Have your cane stored in a secure place nearby.  Maybe by 
>> a
>>
>> table or corner.
>> Yes just try and have fun there.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Julie McGinnity
>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 10:32 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>>
>> Hi everyone.
>>
>> I attended Home Coming almost every year as well as my senior prom
>> when i was in high school.  I have to admit, I didn't like the crowds,
>> and the music wasn't really my taste, but I loved being able to hang
>> out with my friends before and during the dance.  I always went with a
>> big group, and we had a kind of pact that we would not leave each
>> other, so we all took care to know where the others were.  They took
>> turns sighted guiding since the cane would only trip others on the
>> dance floor, and I never took my dog to dances once I got her.  I
>> would recommend discussing with your date and possibly a couple
>> friends before hand to make sure they understand how to guide you in a
>> big crowd.  Personally, I found dances extremely disorienting because
>> I am low vision, and the lighting is terrible, the crowd enormous, and
>> the noise level is...  too much.
>>
>> Also, food is served at a lot of proms.  At ours there is a buffet,
>> and my friends were able to help me through with no problem.  I
>> recommend figuring out what will be happening with regards to food
>> ahead of time.  A little note about prom food...  It's not the best,
>> so if they are serving food, depending on your tastes, going out for a
>> snack afterwords would not be a bad idea.
>>
>> I was always embarrassed to dance at the prom, but my friends always
>> told me not to worry.  Just get out there, and have fun.  Have your
>> date and/or your friends show you some dances and help you through,
>> and you'll have a great time.  Good luck.
>>
>> On 3/10/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> well, you cannot exactly take your cane on the dance floor. So go 
>>> sighted
>>> guide with your date or friend. Then just follow their lead if you are a
>>> girl. If you are the guy, you have to learn to lead. Also free form 
>>> dance
>>>
>>> is
>>> just a mix of moves like moving to the left, right forward and raising
>>> your
>>> hands up.
>>> Someone could show you some typical dances beforehand; like YMCA has a
>>> few
>>> hand moves; so does Macarena. But lots of this is free form and hip hop
>>> dance with no particular move.
>>> But yep, Chris, its hard to go to a big crowded dance being low vision 
>>> or
>>> blind.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:53 PM
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List ; nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>>>
>>> Great question, Winona! In fact, I had the same question; how do
>>> we as blind people handle school dances as independently as we
>>> can? I look forward to hearing everybody's responses!
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>> nuisance."
>>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] prom
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
>>> So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
>>> doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
>>> it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
>>> and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
>>> and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
>>> guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
>>> don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.
>>>
>>> Winona
>>>
>>> trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>>>
>>> "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
>>> every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
>>> there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
>>> -Ivan Panin
>>>
>>> "Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
>>> self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
>>> you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for blindtlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
>>> aum%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>> Eyes for the Blind
>>
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 15:51:27 2012
From: adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com (Andi)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 11:51:27 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
In-Reply-To: <DEF92719D70E4C5093EDFEFA10F797DD@OwnerPC>
References: <4f5bdba6.47d5e00a.6f95.1d62@mx.google.com><A56F0F64F16D4A5C924EF1402063B225@OwnerPC><CAHox4DJwboO5Z8gC1G_Uh1GNP=Mhb+uvnHqRoa9G33RaL-+_Ww@mail.gmail.com><150F0DBE56F24F19A01B967D0A3B5486@OwnerPC><02A0579F944A43488B0F301D6E4D9DA4@stanford.edu><CAN+-G_DcsSBGELCbdzTw969qm+yn7GZDp-DEgJPD-cU3-zAruA@mail.gmail.com>
	<DEF92719D70E4C5093EDFEFA10F797DD@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <935511CCF73042499FAB87AA025EB53D@OwnerPC>

If the school dance is at the school you wont need your cane anyway because 
you probebly know your school well and if you get disoriented in the gym the 
DJ speekers do not move so you can always get your baring's using them. 
There are always refreshment tables and such so that is another landmark. 
If worse comes to worse follow around the gym walls till you get to a door 
and see what hall you are in or if you are in the entrance way that will 
help.  As for dancing, just let your body move to the music there are 
sighted people who can dance and also sighted people who can't dance and 
many of them are their anyway on the dance floor.  Don't be afraid to look 
stupid or you will become stiff and it looks worse then not nowing what you 
are doing.  Most of the time for fast dances friends are in a group like a 
circle and just sort of move their hips and sholders if they don't know any 
spasific dance moves.  Hips are the answer always.  If you have trouble 
moving your hips bend one ne with the other leg straight then switch your 
hips naturally pop out to the sides.  Then just do it to the beet.  You can 
also add your hands down by your hips kind of like a fan behind you side to 
side with your hips.  Also you can role your sholders first one at a time 
but with flaver kind of look to that side after the sholder is up as it is 
dropping back this is a slow movement but hit the beet.  If you also put the 
same hand up in front of and close to your sholder palm faceing forward and 
rock your hand and sholder forward and back while stepping the same foot 
back and kind of tilting backwards a little this is the rockaway.  It is 
simple and yet if done right it looks cool.  The other moves are mostly for 
girls but the rockaway can be done by guys s to.  Guys and girls can both 
look good doing the hyphop two step. Basicly it is just step out with right 
foot shifting weight on that foot bring left foot to right foot with out 
putting weight on left foot slide left foot back to center, step right foot 
back to center, repeet on left side then keep doing this right to left can 
add hips if girl and if boy can add sholder lean.  Both guys and girls can 
add side lean and hand movements if feeling it.  There are many variations 
but this is basics of it.  Just feel the music that’s the main thing.  There 
are many different things but I tried to explain the symple but useful steps 
as best as I could sorry if it is confusing in anyway I don't know how good 
my descriptions are.  Slow dances are symple and if you are not atempting to 
do something spesific just kind of move in a slow circle while faceing your 
partner in closed posission.  If anything needs to be clarified let me know 
I will try to explain better.  Or just disregard and do your own thing. 
Just let loose and go with the flow.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 10:28 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom

I leave it somewhere and go dance; although its more recognizable if you
don't fold it up.
You can prop it against something and its out of the way.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Patrick Molloy
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 12:04 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom

What's the best thing to do with a folding cane at any dance? Do you
fold it up and carry it with you, or do you fold it up and leave it
somewhere, then go dance, and when you want to leave, go and get it?
Patrick

On 3/10/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Or, a solution for the ladies who carry a purse, is to have one of those
> smaller folding canes and keep it on your person at all times.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 8:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>
>
>> Yes, I agree the crowd and loud music and lighting makes it disorienting.
>> With low vision, it messes the contrast we use up. And the loud music
>> makes it impossible to use open spaces as landmarks. I recommend using a
>> guide as well. Have your cane stored in a secure place nearby.  Maybe by 
>> a
>>
>> table or corner.
>> Yes just try and have fun there.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Julie McGinnity
>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 10:32 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>>
>> Hi everyone.
>>
>> I attended Home Coming almost every year as well as my senior prom
>> when i was in high school.  I have to admit, I didn't like the crowds,
>> and the music wasn't really my taste, but I loved being able to hang
>> out with my friends before and during the dance.  I always went with a
>> big group, and we had a kind of pact that we would not leave each
>> other, so we all took care to know where the others were.  They took
>> turns sighted guiding since the cane would only trip others on the
>> dance floor, and I never took my dog to dances once I got her.  I
>> would recommend discussing with your date and possibly a couple
>> friends before hand to make sure they understand how to guide you in a
>> big crowd.  Personally, I found dances extremely disorienting because
>> I am low vision, and the lighting is terrible, the crowd enormous, and
>> the noise level is...  too much.
>>
>> Also, food is served at a lot of proms.  At ours there is a buffet,
>> and my friends were able to help me through with no problem.  I
>> recommend figuring out what will be happening with regards to food
>> ahead of time.  A little note about prom food...  It's not the best,
>> so if they are serving food, depending on your tastes, going out for a
>> snack afterwords would not be a bad idea.
>>
>> I was always embarrassed to dance at the prom, but my friends always
>> told me not to worry.  Just get out there, and have fun.  Have your
>> date and/or your friends show you some dances and help you through,
>> and you'll have a great time.  Good luck.
>>
>> On 3/10/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> well, you cannot exactly take your cane on the dance floor. So go 
>>> sighted
>>> guide with your date or friend. Then just follow their lead if you are a
>>> girl. If you are the guy, you have to learn to lead. Also free form 
>>> dance
>>>
>>> is
>>> just a mix of moves like moving to the left, right forward and raising
>>> your
>>> hands up.
>>> Someone could show you some typical dances beforehand; like YMCA has a
>>> few
>>> hand moves; so does Macarena. But lots of this is free form and hip hop
>>> dance with no particular move.
>>> But yep, Chris, its hard to go to a big crowded dance being low vision 
>>> or
>>> blind.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:53 PM
>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List ; nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>>>
>>> Great question, Winona! In fact, I had the same question; how do
>>> we as blind people handle school dances as independently as we
>>> can? I look forward to hearing everybody's responses!
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>> nuisance."
>>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] prom
>>>
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
>>> So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
>>> doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
>>> it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
>>> and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
>>> and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
>>> guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
>>> don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.
>>>
>>> Winona
>>>
>>> trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>>>
>>> "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
>>> every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
>>> there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
>>> -Ivan Panin
>>>
>>> "Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
>>> self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
>>> you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for blindtlk:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
>>> aum%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Julie McG
>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>> Eyes for the Blind
>>
>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>> life."
>> John 3:16
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sun Mar 11 17:34:44 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 10:34:44 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
References: <4f5bdba6.47d5e00a.6f95.1d62@mx.google.com><A56F0F64F16D4A5C924EF1402063B225@OwnerPC><CAHox4DJwboO5Z8gC1G_Uh1GNP=Mhb+uvnHqRoa9G33RaL-+_Ww@mail.gmail.com><150F0DBE56F24F19A01B967D0A3B5486@OwnerPC><02A0579F944A43488B0F301D6E4D9DA4@stanford.edu><CAN+-G_DcsSBGELCbdzTw969qm+yn7GZDp-DEgJPD-cU3-zAruA@mail.gmail.com><DEF92719D70E4C5093EDFEFA10F797DD@OwnerPC>
	<935511CCF73042499FAB87AA025EB53D@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <41381321628345329848D63A2ABC4266@stanford.edu>

Usually the music is so loud that you cannot use it to orient yourself.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andi" <adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom


> If the school dance is at the school you wont need your cane anyway 
> because you probebly know your school well and if you get disoriented in 
> the gym the DJ speekers do not move so you can always get your baring's 
> using them. There are always refreshment tables and such so that is 
> another landmark. If worse comes to worse follow around the gym walls till 
> you get to a door and see what hall you are in or if you are in the 
> entrance way that will help.  As for dancing, just let your body move to 
> the music there are sighted people who can dance and also sighted people 
> who can't dance and many of them are their anyway on the dance floor. 
> Don't be afraid to look stupid or you will become stiff and it looks worse 
> then not nowing what you are doing.  Most of the time for fast dances 
> friends are in a group like a circle and just sort of move their hips and 
> sholders if they don't know any spasific dance moves.  Hips are the answer 
> always.  If you have trouble moving your hips bend one ne with the other 
> leg straight then switch your hips naturally pop out to the sides.  Then 
> just do it to the beet.  You can also add your hands down by your hips 
> kind of like a fan behind you side to side with your hips.  Also you can 
> role your sholders first one at a time but with flaver kind of look to 
> that side after the sholder is up as it is dropping back this is a slow 
> movement but hit the beet.  If you also put the same hand up in front of 
> and close to your sholder palm faceing forward and rock your hand and 
> sholder forward and back while stepping the same foot back and kind of 
> tilting backwards a little this is the rockaway.  It is simple and yet if 
> done right it looks cool.  The other moves are mostly for girls but the 
> rockaway can be done by guys s to.  Guys and girls can both look good 
> doing the hyphop two step. Basicly it is just step out with right foot 
> shifting weight on that foot bring left foot to right foot with out 
> putting weight on left foot slide left foot back to center, step right 
> foot back to center, repeet on left side then keep doing this right to 
> left can add hips if girl and if boy can add sholder lean.  Both guys and 
> girls can add side lean and hand movements if feeling it.  There are many 
> variations but this is basics of it.  Just feel the music that’s the main 
> thing.  There are many different things but I tried to explain the symple 
> but useful steps as best as I could sorry if it is confusing in anyway I 
> don't know how good my descriptions are.  Slow dances are symple and if 
> you are not atempting to do something spesific just kind of move in a slow 
> circle while faceing your partner in closed posission.  If anything needs 
> to be clarified let me know I will try to explain better.  Or just 
> disregard and do your own thing. Just let loose and go with the flow.
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 10:28 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>
> I leave it somewhere and go dance; although its more recognizable if you
> don't fold it up.
> You can prop it against something and its out of the way.
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Patrick Molloy
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 12:04 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>
> What's the best thing to do with a folding cane at any dance? Do you
> fold it up and carry it with you, or do you fold it up and leave it
> somewhere, then go dance, and when you want to leave, go and get it?
> Patrick
>
> On 3/10/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> Or, a solution for the ladies who carry a purse, is to have one of those
>> smaller folding canes and keep it on your person at all times.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 8:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>>
>>
>>> Yes, I agree the crowd and loud music and lighting makes it 
>>> disorienting.
>>> With low vision, it messes the contrast we use up. And the loud music
>>> makes it impossible to use open spaces as landmarks. I recommend using a
>>> guide as well. Have your cane stored in a secure place nearby.  Maybe by 
>>> a
>>>
>>> table or corner.
>>> Yes just try and have fun there.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Julie McGinnity
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 10:32 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>>>
>>> Hi everyone.
>>>
>>> I attended Home Coming almost every year as well as my senior prom
>>> when i was in high school.  I have to admit, I didn't like the crowds,
>>> and the music wasn't really my taste, but I loved being able to hang
>>> out with my friends before and during the dance.  I always went with a
>>> big group, and we had a kind of pact that we would not leave each
>>> other, so we all took care to know where the others were.  They took
>>> turns sighted guiding since the cane would only trip others on the
>>> dance floor, and I never took my dog to dances once I got her.  I
>>> would recommend discussing with your date and possibly a couple
>>> friends before hand to make sure they understand how to guide you in a
>>> big crowd.  Personally, I found dances extremely disorienting because
>>> I am low vision, and the lighting is terrible, the crowd enormous, and
>>> the noise level is...  too much.
>>>
>>> Also, food is served at a lot of proms.  At ours there is a buffet,
>>> and my friends were able to help me through with no problem.  I
>>> recommend figuring out what will be happening with regards to food
>>> ahead of time.  A little note about prom food...  It's not the best,
>>> so if they are serving food, depending on your tastes, going out for a
>>> snack afterwords would not be a bad idea.
>>>
>>> I was always embarrassed to dance at the prom, but my friends always
>>> told me not to worry.  Just get out there, and have fun.  Have your
>>> date and/or your friends show you some dances and help you through,
>>> and you'll have a great time.  Good luck.
>>>
>>> On 3/10/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> well, you cannot exactly take your cane on the dance floor. So go 
>>>> sighted
>>>> guide with your date or friend. Then just follow their lead if you are 
>>>> a
>>>> girl. If you are the guy, you have to learn to lead. Also free form 
>>>> dance
>>>>
>>>> is
>>>> just a mix of moves like moving to the left, right forward and raising
>>>> your
>>>> hands up.
>>>> Someone could show you some typical dances beforehand; like YMCA has a
>>>> few
>>>> hand moves; so does Macarena. But lots of this is free form and hip hop
>>>> dance with no particular move.
>>>> But yep, Chris, its hard to go to a big crowded dance being low vision 
>>>> or
>>>> blind.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:53 PM
>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List ; nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>>>>
>>>> Great question, Winona! In fact, I had the same question; how do
>>>> we as blind people handle school dances as independently as we
>>>> can? I look forward to hearing everybody's responses!
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>>>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>>>
>>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>>> nuisance."
>>>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] prom
>>>>
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
>>>> So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
>>>> doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
>>>> it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
>>>> and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
>>>> and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
>>>> guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
>>>> don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.
>>>>
>>>> Winona
>>>>
>>>> trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
>>>> every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
>>>> there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
>>>> -Ivan Panin
>>>>
>>>> "Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
>>>> self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
>>>> you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for blindtlk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
>>>> aum%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Julie McG
>>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>>> Eyes for the Blind
>>>
>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>> life."
>>> John 3:16
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun Mar 11 19:04:40 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 15:04:40 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
In-Reply-To: <41381321628345329848D63A2ABC4266@stanford.edu>
References: <4f5bdba6.47d5e00a.6f95.1d62@mx.google.com><A56F0F64F16D4A5C924EF1402063B225@OwnerPC><CAHox4DJwboO5Z8gC1G_Uh1GNP=Mhb+uvnHqRoa9G33RaL-+_Ww@mail.gmail.com><150F0DBE56F24F19A01B967D0A3B5486@OwnerPC><02A0579F944A43488B0F301D6E4D9DA4@stanford.edu><CAN+-G_DcsSBGELCbdzTw969qm+yn7GZDp-DEgJPD-cU3-zAruA@mail.gmail.com><DEF92719D70E4C5093EDFEFA10F797DD@OwnerPC><935511CCF73042499FAB87AA025EB53D@OwnerPC>
	<41381321628345329848D63A2ABC4266@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <7139EEFB167F407CBBF1877A8B5467EF@OwnerPC>

exactly. No good sound clues; so this is a case for a sighted guide.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 1:34 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom

Usually the music is so loud that you cannot use it to orient yourself.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andi" <adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom


> If the school dance is at the school you wont need your cane anyway 
> because you probebly know your school well and if you get disoriented in 
> the gym the DJ speekers do not move so you can always get your baring's 
> using them. There are always refreshment tables and such so that is 
> another landmark. If worse comes to worse follow around the gym walls till 
> you get to a door and see what hall you are in or if you are in the 
> entrance way that will help.  As for dancing, just let your body move to 
> the music there are sighted people who can dance and also sighted people 
> who can't dance and many of them are their anyway on the dance floor. 
> Don't be afraid to look stupid or you will become stiff and it looks worse 
> then not nowing what you are doing.  Most of the time for fast dances 
> friends are in a group like a circle and just sort of move their hips and 
> sholders if they don't know any spasific dance moves.  Hips are the answer 
> always.  If you have trouble moving your hips bend one ne with the other 
> leg straight then switch your hips naturally pop out to the sides.  Then 
> just do it to the beet.  You can also add your hands down by your hips 
> kind of like a fan behind you side to side with your hips.  Also you can 
> role your sholders first one at a time but with flaver kind of look to 
> that side after the sholder is up as it is dropping back this is a slow 
> movement but hit the beet.  If you also put the same hand up in front of 
> and close to your sholder palm faceing forward and rock your hand and 
> sholder forward and back while stepping the same foot back and kind of 
> tilting backwards a little this is the rockaway.  It is simple and yet if 
> done right it looks cool.  The other moves are mostly for girls but the 
> rockaway can be done by guys s to.  Guys and girls can both look good 
> doing the hyphop two step. Basicly it is just step out with right foot 
> shifting weight on that foot bring left foot to right foot with out 
> putting weight on left foot slide left foot back to center, step right 
> foot back to center, repeet on left side then keep doing this right to 
> left can add hips if girl and if boy can add sholder lean.  Both guys and 
> girls can add side lean and hand movements if feeling it.  There are many 
> variations but this is basics of it.  Just feel the music that’s the main 
> thing.  There are many different things but I tried to explain the symple 
> but useful steps as best as I could sorry if it is confusing in anyway I 
> don't know how good my descriptions are.  Slow dances are symple and if 
> you are not atempting to do something spesific just kind of move in a slow 
> circle while faceing your partner in closed posission.  If anything needs 
> to be clarified let me know I will try to explain better.  Or just 
> disregard and do your own thing. Just let loose and go with the flow.
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 10:28 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>
> I leave it somewhere and go dance; although its more recognizable if you
> don't fold it up.
> You can prop it against something and its out of the way.
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Patrick Molloy
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 12:04 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>
> What's the best thing to do with a folding cane at any dance? Do you
> fold it up and carry it with you, or do you fold it up and leave it
> somewhere, then go dance, and when you want to leave, go and get it?
> Patrick
>
> On 3/10/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> Or, a solution for the ladies who carry a purse, is to have one of those
>> smaller folding canes and keep it on your person at all times.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 8:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>>
>>
>>> Yes, I agree the crowd and loud music and lighting makes it 
>>> disorienting.
>>> With low vision, it messes the contrast we use up. And the loud music
>>> makes it impossible to use open spaces as landmarks. I recommend using a
>>> guide as well. Have your cane stored in a secure place nearby.  Maybe by 
>>> a
>>>
>>> table or corner.
>>> Yes just try and have fun there.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Julie McGinnity
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 10:32 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>>>
>>> Hi everyone.
>>>
>>> I attended Home Coming almost every year as well as my senior prom
>>> when i was in high school.  I have to admit, I didn't like the crowds,
>>> and the music wasn't really my taste, but I loved being able to hang
>>> out with my friends before and during the dance.  I always went with a
>>> big group, and we had a kind of pact that we would not leave each
>>> other, so we all took care to know where the others were.  They took
>>> turns sighted guiding since the cane would only trip others on the
>>> dance floor, and I never took my dog to dances once I got her.  I
>>> would recommend discussing with your date and possibly a couple
>>> friends before hand to make sure they understand how to guide you in a
>>> big crowd.  Personally, I found dances extremely disorienting because
>>> I am low vision, and the lighting is terrible, the crowd enormous, and
>>> the noise level is...  too much.
>>>
>>> Also, food is served at a lot of proms.  At ours there is a buffet,
>>> and my friends were able to help me through with no problem.  I
>>> recommend figuring out what will be happening with regards to food
>>> ahead of time.  A little note about prom food...  It's not the best,
>>> so if they are serving food, depending on your tastes, going out for a
>>> snack afterwords would not be a bad idea.
>>>
>>> I was always embarrassed to dance at the prom, but my friends always
>>> told me not to worry.  Just get out there, and have fun.  Have your
>>> date and/or your friends show you some dances and help you through,
>>> and you'll have a great time.  Good luck.
>>>
>>> On 3/10/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> well, you cannot exactly take your cane on the dance floor. So go 
>>>> sighted
>>>> guide with your date or friend. Then just follow their lead if you are 
>>>> a
>>>> girl. If you are the guy, you have to learn to lead. Also free form 
>>>> dance
>>>>
>>>> is
>>>> just a mix of moves like moving to the left, right forward and raising
>>>> your
>>>> hands up.
>>>> Someone could show you some typical dances beforehand; like YMCA has a
>>>> few
>>>> hand moves; so does Macarena. But lots of this is free form and hip hop
>>>> dance with no particular move.
>>>> But yep, Chris, its hard to go to a big crowded dance being low vision 
>>>> or
>>>> blind.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:53 PM
>>>> To: Blind Talk Mailing List ; nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
>>>>
>>>> Great question, Winona! In fact, I had the same question; how do
>>>> we as blind people handle school dances as independently as we
>>>> can? I look forward to hearing everybody's responses!
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>>>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>>>
>>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>>> nuisance."
>>>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
>>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] prom
>>>>
>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>
>>>> I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
>>>> So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
>>>> doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
>>>> it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
>>>> and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
>>>> and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
>>>> guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
>>>> don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.
>>>>
>>>> Winona
>>>>
>>>> trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
>>>> every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
>>>> there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
>>>> -Ivan Panin
>>>>
>>>> "Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
>>>> self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
>>>> you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> blindtlk mailing list
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for blindtlk:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
>>>> aum%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Julie McG
>>> Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in Opera
>>> Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of Guiding
>>> Eyes for the Blind
>>>
>>> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
>>> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
>>> life."
>>> John 3:16
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 23:45:28 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 18:45:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i react?
Message-ID: <4f5d2b0a.4625340a.2bb4.5b6b@mx.google.com>

Nicole,

Same here.  I'm sorry you guys have been having problems with 
your aids.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 23:17:19 -0800
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how 
should i react?

Oh dear, that most certainly was not the case for me.  All of the 
aides that
I have had have been very nice, and I never had problems, or, if 
I did, they
were the most minor things and nothing like what is being 
described here,
probably not even classified as problems.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how 
should i react?


Lovely suggesftions, Chris.  Aids are so weird.  As they say,
"Can't live with them, can't live without them."
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 22:51:24 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how
should i react?

Hi Vejas,

Exactly! He is uneducated about blindness and exhibits the worst
of the misconceptions which we complain about all the time.  So,
as we have to do all the time, you're going to need to educate
this aid.  What I try to do in situations such as the ones you
describe is try to educate them right then and there.  If, for
example, as you describe, someone says there are proud of me for
just travelling on my own, I answer, "Thank you, but what is
there to be especially proud of? I'm walking down the hallway to
my class just like a sighted person would." He may answer, "Well,
you're blind, and I can't imagine travelling without my sight or
with that big stick of yours." I then answer, "Yes, and I can't
imagine travelling or doing anything else with my sight or
without that big stick, otherwise known as a cane." He's probably
just in awe of you because he can't imagine being in your shoes,
and this may teach him.  If he doesn't get it then, as in a
situation I had with a 7th grade teacher, I would try to schedule
a meeting with him, you, and your TVI.  Get your aid, who sounds
like he's got blindness misconceptions of his own, out of the
situation altogether! That will most likely work.

If that even doesn't work, which I think is highly unlikely, you
can do 1 of 2 things: (1) just ignore him and do your thing, or
(2) kind of interrupt him.  Let me explain the second suggestion.
One time, when one of the other kids at my bus stop started to
give me unwanted turn-by-turn directions to get to the bus stop,
which is a route I travel every day and one which I know well.
After I repeatedly told him "I've got it," he seems to ignore me
and still gave me these directions.  So what I finally did was
when we got to a place where I needed to turn left, the guy said,
"Turn..." and as he started to tell me which direction he wanted
me to turn him, I said "Left!" He finally understood then! I hope
these suggestions help you, and I hope that this email makes
sense.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

----- Original Message -----
From: vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 06 Mar 2012 16:50:28 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] this one aide is driving me crazy? how should i
react?

Hi,
The person I am writing about is not my aide, it's another guy.
This guy, Gregory, helps out with other kids, I think maybe the
ones who are autistic?
Anyway, when I've seen him recently he has been ABSOLUTELY
ANNOYING.
For example, for no other reason than the fact that I was
travelling on my own, he said he was proud of me.  But I didn't
do anything! I'm just traveling, exactly as I should!
On a second incident, when I was outside a classroom, I had to
call my mom for something, and he came up.  After being told that
I was on the phone, I was just about to leave the message when he
began talking again in his loud voice, and I had to call her
again.  When somebody knows you're on the phone, they should
seriously JUST LEAVE.
And maybe the worst was today.  He followed me the WHOLE ENTIRE
last quarter of my math class.  He would tell me to turn left,
even if I knew I had to.  And the weirdest thing was that when I
was walking, I felt a trash can with my cane and went around it
just as I was supposed to.  Then a couple seconds later he said,
"There's a trash can." Yes, I know.  I went around it a couple of
seconds ago.
I really need help.  He really bugs me.  I'm assuming he might
just be uneducated in blindness, as he is so used to working with
learning-disabled and autistíc people and probably has to do a
lot with them.
I've considered telling my aide, but they're sort of friends and
knowing who he is (I've had this aide for three years, same one I
talked about about getting lost a week ago), I'm assuming he's
probably going to make some excuse for Gregory (they're on
friendly terms.)
How can I get the message across to Gregory? Seriously if he
doesn't listen to the fact that I'm about to send my mom a
message, how am I going to expect him to listen if I talk with
him firmly?
Thank you so much.
Vejas


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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sun Mar 11 23:06:13 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 16:06:13 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Improved Website
Message-ID: <99882941E90649E2BE72A08A758395BB@stanford.edu>

    A few weeks ago, I asked that people evaluate a website that I built for a project. I am asking that people please evaluate it again as I have made improvements and I have to finish the project soon. The URL is www.accessibleeateries.com.

Thanks,
Nicole

From nfbcsblog at gmail.com  Sun Mar 11 23:17:01 2012
From: nfbcsblog at gmail.com (Community Service Blog)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 18:17:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for community service stories for March
Message-ID: <CAOMtRmdPr72K13o-OxhkS6pYPg8OWFZCkTSPG-mLukhZ+G5bCA@mail.gmail.com>

Please pass the following announcement on to anyone you think would be
interested.

The Community Service Group is looking for stories to feature on its
blog at nfbcommunityservice.wordpress.com. This month there are two
themes. Feel free to write on one or both.

1. College students: It’s almost that time—spring break! While some
students are preparing to head to the beach or to spend a relaxing
week at home, others are getting ready to spend their spring break
serving others through an alternative spring break project like those
offered through the United Way National Alternative Spring Break.*
Have you participated in an alternative spring break project in the
past? Are you going to this year? If so, we want to hear about it!

2. Spring means flowers, more time spent outside, and warmer
temperatures. However, spring also means unpredictable and sometimes
violent weather. Tornado season begins in March for some parts of the
U.S., and Flood Safety Awareness Week is March 14-18.** Have you
participated in a disaster relief effort, and would you be willing to
share your story?

You can start sending in your stories immediately. Stories should be
no more than 500 words. Stories should be submitted by March 25 to
ensure inclusion in the blog during the month of March, but this is a
month-long event. In keeping with the theme, we want to feature
stories throughout the month, so feel free to send them in any time
between now and the 25th. Send stories as an attachment or in the body
of a message to nfbcsblog at gmail.com. Be sure to include your name,
state, and a title with each submission. I look forward to reading
about your experiences.

*More information on the United Way National Alternative Spring Break
can be found at
http://liveunited.org/take-action/alternative-spring-break.

**More information about Flood Safety Awareness Week can be found at
http://www.floodsafety.noaa.gov/.

Chris Parsons
Blog Coordinator, Community Service Group


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 00:17:17 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 19:17:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] correction: link to podcasts and online college courses
	survey
Message-ID: <4f5d408d.a81e340a.618d.5b41@mx.google.com>

Fellow NABS members,

I was notified that the link for the survey on the uses and 
accessibility of podcasts in college courses was broken.  This 
was an issue with Braille grades and my BrailleNote.  So here is 
the link again:



Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 00:18:01 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 19:18:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
Message-ID: <4f5d40b8.c2b8340a.7ee8.5bb6@mx.google.com>

The direct link to Mike Hingson's Web site is 
www.michaelhingson.com and his email is info at michaelhingson.com.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 15:01:34 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender

I forget if I mentioned this earlier, but Mike Hingson sells the 
KNFB
Reader Mobile and he might still be able to sell you a Nokia 
phone
with Talks or MobileSpeak but without the KNFB Reader software.  
If you
google Michael Hingson he has a company webpage with contact 
info.
Arielle

On 3/9/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
 if anyone needs help with iOS, let me know.  Love my iTouch and 
iPhone, :)

 On 3/6/12, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi Justin,
 Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch 
screen, so
 you might have to get used to that interface if you want 
something
 more sophisticated than the Haven.  I currently have a Nokia 
Symbian
 phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, 
but as
 you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of 
products.  I'm
 not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself 
to the
 fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the 
future--
 While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of 
blind
 people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you 
can
 master the technique too with some practice.  Just my thoughts!
 Katie


 On 3/6/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
 This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade 
they
 didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my 
Haven
 because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the 
touch
 screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm 
curious of
 there are any suggestions out there.

 On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
 which cell carrier are you using?
 The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; 
not sure
 though if the calendar talks.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Justin Young
 Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender

 Hi to All!

 Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer 
this
 question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my 
phone.
 I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible 
calender
 where you can enter the location of the appointments and is 
non-touch
 screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  
Any
 suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!

 Thanks in advance:)

 Justin

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 nabs-l:
 
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 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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 nabs-l:
 
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 --
 Sent via gmail.com
 Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
 Skype: joshgregory93
  twitter: JoshG93

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 00:18:09 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 19:18:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] prom
Message-ID: <4f5d40c1.c2b8340a.7ee8.5bba@mx.google.com>

Oh.  Then we won't go any farther with that one, LOL!

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 16:20:14 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] prom

Unacceptable dancing includes whuat we call freak dancing, which
consists of teenagers "simulating sex acts."  Swinging hips is
not freak dancing, but the bump and grind is.  I have heard
school administrations pulling people off the floor for freak
dancing.  I'm sorry if that answer gets a stirring from the
moderators, but it's best to be explained as well as it needs to
be.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 17:53:49 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] prom

So what are these "unacceptable dancing" rules? What is "freak
dancing?"

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 22:57:27 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] prom

You're lucky.  I never went to my senior prom at all.  I couldn't
because of a secondary disability my parents were unable to
properly detect.  Also, my mother said it was for dating couples
only.  At least you're getting a date with a friend.  Have fun.
I don't know anything about proms, but beware the "unacceptable
dance" rules.  The school I went to had an unacceptable dancing
policy against "freak dancing."  It was interesfting because
people backed out of homecoming, and they were kicked out because
of it.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] prom

Hi everyone,

I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.

Winona

trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com

 "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
-Ivan Panin

"Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 00:18:18 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 19:18:18 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
Message-ID: <4f5d40ca.c2b8340a.7ee8.5bc0@mx.google.com>

Good advice! Thanks!

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 21:09:43 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom

well, you cannot exactly take your cane on the dance floor.  So 
go sighted
guide with your date or friend.  Then just follow their lead if 
you are a
girl.  If you are the guy, you have to learn to lead.  Also free 
form dance is
just a mix of moves like moving to the left, right forward and 
raising your
hands up.
Someone could show you some typical dances beforehand; like YMCA 
has a few
hand moves; so does Macarena.  But lots of this is free form and 
hip hop
dance with no particular move.
But yep, Chris, its hard to go to a big crowded dance being low 
vision or
blind.

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:53 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List ; nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom

Great question, Winona! In fact, I had the same question; how do
we as blind people handle school dances as independently as we
can? I look forward to hearing everybody's responses!

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

----- Original Message -----
From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
Subject: [Blindtlk] prom

Hi everyone,

I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.

Winona

trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com

"For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
-Ivan Panin

"Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden

_______________________________________________
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 00:17:59 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 19:17:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
Message-ID: <4f5d40b7.c2b8340a.7ee8.5bb5@mx.google.com>

Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of 
tactile graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them! 
I really don't like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if 
possible.  But we're doing geometry in math and astronomy in 
science, both of which are very visual units which require a lot 
of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a break from the 
constant
diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready 
for our state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment 
(MSA.)

Chris
Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Hi Vejas,
I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much 
out
of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.  
But if
you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if 
you
can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my 
experience
that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.) 
is
not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you 
are
learning about.
You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is 
any
free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the 
only
student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your 
school
has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your 
parents are
willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when 
I was
in high school.
A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how 
to
best explain the ideas to you.
Arielle

On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams 
have
 lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a 
lot,
 so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
 stands for.
 But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention 
to
 the diagrams.
 Vejas


  ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

 Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
 cluttered, then
 it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
 help you?

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
 To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
 Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring


  Hi,
  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
 My
  teacher is OK, I guess.
  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
 me, so I
  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
 helped.
  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers 
loves
 the way
  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was 
a
 sighter
  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
 stuff you
  need? I have a test tomorrow.
  Thanks for any input.
  Vejas

  _______________________________________________
  nabs-l mailing list
  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
 info for
  nabs-l:

 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
 wavecable.com


 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
 for nabs-l:
 
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 mail.com

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 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Mon Mar 12 00:47:30 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 17:47:30 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
References: <4f5d40b7.c2b8340a.7ee8.5bb5@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <99CCF78640D84AC5B6E18CEEA906492B@stanford.edu>

If possible, you need to try to get used to them, because they certainly 
don't go away in college. Even if you major in something that is not 
graphics intensive, you usually have to take enough classes for breadth 
requirements that you come across them somewhere. Maybe you don't like them 
because you are not how to best use them, in which case you need to get 
help.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring


> Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of tactile 
> graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them! I really don't 
> like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if possible.  But we're doing 
> geometry in math and astronomy in science, both of which are very visual 
> units which require a lot of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a 
> break from the constant
> diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready for our 
> state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment (MSA.)
>
> Chris
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The real 
> problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists.  If a 
> blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can be 
> reduced to a mere physical nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Hi Vejas,
> I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much out
> of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
> diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.  But if
> you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if you
> can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my experience
> that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.) is
> not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you are
> learning about.
> You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is any
> free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the only
> student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your school
> has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
> available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your parents are
> willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when I was
> in high school.
> A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how to
> best explain the ideas to you.
> Arielle
>
> On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams have
> lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a lot,
> so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
> stands for.
> But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention to
> the diagrams.
> Vejas
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
> cluttered, then
> it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
> help you?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
>
>  Hi,
>  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
> My
>  teacher is OK, I guess.
>  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
> me, so I
>  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
> helped.
>  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers loves
> the way
>  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was a
> sighter
>  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
> stuff you
>  need? I have a test tomorrow.
>  Thanks for any input.
>  Vejas
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
> wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40g
> mail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Mar 12 01:30:22 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 20:30:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?
In-Reply-To: <4f581718.f21c340a.19d9.0e9f@mx.google.com>
References: <4f581718.f21c340a.19d9.0e9f@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000051614992@mailfront4.g2host.com>

Your message is incomprehensible because of typos, but the Newsline 
sponsor in your state would have to arrange for any additional 
papers, which means that someone would have to pay for it -- and that 
it would be possible to get the content in a way newsline could use it.

Dave


>So if someone went through  /ate libr>y or o!r ,newsl9e sponsor1 wd 
>! pap] / h 6pay ! 4#ejjj fee8 I ask because I too would like to get 
>my local paper, the Carroll County (Maryland) Times, or if nothing 
>else the Frederick News Post, on Newsline.
>
>Chris
>
>Chris Nusbaum
>Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
>dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
>"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
>real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
>exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, 
>blindness can be reduced to a mere physical nuisance."
>-- Kenneth Jernigan
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 17:22:50 -0500
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?
>
>Yes, papers are expensive and they need to make a profit.  By putting it on
>newsline, they give it free to many subscribers; the money comes from
>somewhere; plus the money to keep it running on newsline.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: josh gregory
>Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 4:51 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nfb news line: free for Hawaii?
>
>Uh...  $5000? Just for 1 paper?
>
>On 3/4/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>First, to get a paper on NFB Newsline, your state must be a
>sponsor.  If they are, they are the ones who will have to make the
>arrangements.  There is a one time setup fee, and an annual fee as
>well, for adding a paper, I believe both are $5000.
>
>Dave
>
>At 07:57 AM 3/4/2012, you wrote:
>I had a question about Newsline, myself.
>How can I get my state paper, (The Arkansas Democrat Gazette,) to them?
>Also, (Chris,) what happened to the closing stuff, at the end of your
>E-mails?
>Thanks, Joshua
>
>On 3/4/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi Josh,
>
>As far as I know, the toll-free number for Newsline will work in any
>US state, including Hawaii.
>
>Chris
>
>On 3/4/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>Hi,
>I have a friend that would like to use nfb newsline.  He lives in
>Hawaii and is wondering if the toll free number would charge him or
>not, since Hawaii technically is not part of the continental us.
>I
>don't know myself so figured I'd ask.
>Thanks,
>Josh
>
>Sent From My iPhone
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
>
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>m%40gmail.com
>
>
>
>--
>Chris Nusbaum
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
>gmail.com
>
>



From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Mar 12 01:45:37 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 20:45:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] prom
In-Reply-To: <4f598f57.21a1ec0a.33ce.7ebb@mx.google.com>
References: <4f598f57.21a1ec0a.33ce.7ebb@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000051615874@mailfront4.g2host.com>

How about getting your mom, or your girl friends to teach you how to dance?

Dave


>Hi everyone,
>
>I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
>So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that doesn't 
>matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to it.  But I 
>don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance and hang out 
>with friends (which most of I probably won't know), and have a good 
>time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I guess my question 
>is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I don't go to school 
>dances and I've never been to a prom before.
>
>Winona
>
>trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>
>"For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For every 
>truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love there is 
>a heart somewhere to receive it."
>-Ivan Panin
>
>"Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of 
>self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best 
>you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 12 02:17:00 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:17:00 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
In-Reply-To: <99CCF78640D84AC5B6E18CEEA906492B@stanford.edu>
References: <4f5d40b7.c2b8340a.7ee8.5bb5@mx.google.com>
	<99CCF78640D84AC5B6E18CEEA906492B@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <E0A39487B24F4B9C92F3F10421BAD138@OwnerPC>

Nicole,
Exactly. They don't go away and your math and science courses will use them 
in college.
Find a tactile graphic method that you can feel easily. Many vi teachers use 
a tracing wheel to make them or puff paint.
You can also use wiki sticks. Then I suggest going over the diagram with 
your teacher or someone who knows the material well. Have them explain what 
the diagram means; go from top to bottom or left to right.
It will make more sense if you know how to interpret some of them.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

If possible, you need to try to get used to them, because they certainly
don't go away in college. Even if you major in something that is not
graphics intensive, you usually have to take enough classes for breadth
requirements that you come across them somewhere. Maybe you don't like them
because you are not how to best use them, in which case you need to get
help.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring


> Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of tactile 
> graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them! I really don't 
> like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if possible.  But we're doing 
> geometry in math and astronomy in science, both of which are very visual 
> units which require a lot of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a 
> break from the constant
> diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready for our 
> state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment (MSA.)
>
> Chris
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The real 
> problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists.  If a 
> blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can be 
> reduced to a mere physical nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Hi Vejas,
> I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much out
> of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
> diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.  But if
> you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if you
> can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my experience
> that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.) is
> not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you are
> learning about.
> You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is any
> free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the only
> student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your school
> has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
> available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your parents are
> willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when I was
> in high school.
> A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how to
> best explain the ideas to you.
> Arielle
>
> On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams have
> lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a lot,
> so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
> stands for.
> But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention to
> the diagrams.
> Vejas
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
> cluttered, then
> it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
> help you?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
>
>  Hi,
>  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
> My
>  teacher is OK, I guess.
>  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
> me, so I
>  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
> helped.
>  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers loves
> the way
>  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was a
> sighter
>  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
> stuff you
>  need? I have a test tomorrow.
>  Thanks for any input.
>  Vejas
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
> wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40g
> mail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com


_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 12 02:25:23 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:25:23 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
In-Reply-To: <4f5d40b7.c2b8340a.7ee8.5bb5@mx.google.com>
References: <4f5d40b7.c2b8340a.7ee8.5bb5@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <0A80872D4CA0475F9A7D92F3EA525FF0@OwnerPC>

Chris,
Geometry and astronomy are interesting. Geometry has some real world problem 
solving applications.
I didn't like it but somehow got through it. I'm not an abstract thinker.
I remember how you compare shapes and figure out the missing angle number 
and things like that. The problem solving and critical thinking skills carry 
over to other subjects though.

For astronomy, well I did not take that in high school; Virginia doesn't 
require that; we take different sciences.

But I suggest getting tactile diagrams of the stars and galaxies. I think 
NASA or National braille press has some books. One is called Touch the 
stars.
I think if your vi teacher explains diagrams and what the lines represent 
and labels them, it will make more sense.
Some concepts though are better illustrated in a 3 d thing; so you could 
make a model for those situations.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:17 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of
tactile graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them!
I really don't like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if
possible.  But we're doing geometry in math and astronomy in
science, both of which are very visual units which require a lot
of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a break from the
constant
diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready
for our state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment
(MSA.)

Chris
Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

----- Original Message -----
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Hi Vejas,
I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much
out
of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.
But if
you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if
you
can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my
experience
that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.)
is
not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you
are
learning about.
You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is
any
free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the
only
student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your
school
has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your
parents are
willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when
I was
in high school.
A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how
to
best explain the ideas to you.
Arielle

On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams
have
lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a
lot,
so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
stands for.
But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention
to
the diagrams.
Vejas


  ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
cluttered, then
it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
help you?

----- Original Message -----
From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring


  Hi,
  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
My
  teacher is OK, I guess.
  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
me, so I
  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
helped.
  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers
loves
the way
  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was
a
sighter
  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
stuff you
  need? I have a test tomorrow.
  Thanks for any input.
  Vejas

  _______________________________________________
  nabs-l mailing list
  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info for
  nabs-l:


http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
wavecable.com


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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mail.com

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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nabs-l:

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mail.com


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
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m%40gmail.com

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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Mon Mar 12 02:37:19 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 19:37:19 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
References: <4f5d40b7.c2b8340a.7ee8.5bb5@mx.google.com>
	<0A80872D4CA0475F9A7D92F3EA525FF0@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <D72572FB56A44F39ADC3340D51CC4CA4@stanford.edu>

I would definitely recommend trying to get a copy of Touch the Stars II. 
It's tactile diagrams will be easier to understand both because they are 
explained well and because they were made knowing that they were for the 
blind.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring


> Chris,
> Geometry and astronomy are interesting. Geometry has some real world 
> problem solving applications.
> I didn't like it but somehow got through it. I'm not an abstract thinker.
> I remember how you compare shapes and figure out the missing angle number 
> and things like that. The problem solving and critical thinking skills 
> carry over to other subjects though.
>
> For astronomy, well I did not take that in high school; Virginia doesn't 
> require that; we take different sciences.
>
> But I suggest getting tactile diagrams of the stars and galaxies. I think 
> NASA or National braille press has some books. One is called Touch the 
> stars.
> I think if your vi teacher explains diagrams and what the lines represent 
> and labels them, it will make more sense.
> Some concepts though are better illustrated in a 3 d thing; so you could 
> make a model for those situations.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:17 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of
> tactile graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them!
> I really don't like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if
> possible.  But we're doing geometry in math and astronomy in
> science, both of which are very visual units which require a lot
> of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a break from the
> constant
> diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready
> for our state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment
> (MSA.)
>
> Chris
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
> nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Hi Vejas,
> I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much
> out
> of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
> diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.
> But if
> you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if
> you
> can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my
> experience
> that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.)
> is
> not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you
> are
> learning about.
> You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is
> any
> free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the
> only
> student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your
> school
> has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
> available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your
> parents are
> willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when
> I was
> in high school.
> A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how
> to
> best explain the ideas to you.
> Arielle
>
> On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams
> have
> lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a
> lot,
> so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
> stands for.
> But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention
> to
> the diagrams.
> Vejas
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
> cluttered, then
> it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
> help you?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
>
>  Hi,
>  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
> My
>  teacher is OK, I guess.
>  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
> me, so I
>  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
> helped.
>  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers
> loves
> the way
>  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was
> a
> sighter
>  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
> stuff you
>  need? I have a test tomorrow.
>  Thanks for any input.
>  Vejas
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
> wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info
> for nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40g
> mail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Mon Mar 12 03:56:00 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 20:56:00 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Slightly OT: Strange Email
Message-ID: <26B710DFE5B549389E15D778D2833C71@stanford.edu>

I just now received an email asking me my grade level and if I am totally blind. It was written in broken English. Has anyone else received any such email?

Nicole

From robinmel71 at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 12 04:03:34 2012
From: robinmel71 at earthlink.net (Robin)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 21:03:34 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Prom & DANCIN'
In-Reply-To: <4f5be1bc.a123440a.37ab.65fd@mx.google.com>
References: <4f5be1bc.a123440a.37ab.65fd@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120311205755.04e7c8e0@earthlink.net>



I don't see nothing wrong with a little bump and grind
I don't see nothing wrong with a little bump and grind



At 04:20 PM 3/10/2012, you wrote:
>Unacceptable dancing includes whuat we call freak dancing, which 
>consists of teenagers "simulating sex acts."  Swinging hips is not 
>freak dancing, but the bump and grind is.  I have heard school 
>administrations pulling people off the floor for freak dancing.  I'm 
>sorry if that answer gets a stirring from the moderators, but it's 
>best to be explained as well as it needs to be.
>Beth
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 17:53:49 -0500
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] prom
>
>So what are these "unacceptable dancing" rules? What is "freak
>dancing?"
>
>Chris
>
>Chris Nusbaum
>Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
>"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>nuisance."
>-- Kenneth Jernigan
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
>list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 22:57:27 -0700
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] prom
>
>You're lucky.  I never went to my senior prom at all.  I couldn't
>because of a secondary disability my parents were unable to
>properly detect.  Also, my mother said it was for dating couples
>only.  At least you're getting a date with a friend.  Have fun.
>I don't know anything about proms, but beware the "unacceptable
>dance" rules.  The school I went to had an unacceptable dancing
>policy against "freak dancing."  It was interesfting because
>people backed out of homecoming, and they were kicked out because
>of it.
>Beth
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
>Subject: [nabs-l] prom
>
>Hi everyone,
>
>I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
>So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
>doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward to
>it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
>and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
>and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
>guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
>don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.
>
>Winona
>
>trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
>
>"For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
>every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every love
>there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
>-Ivan Panin
>
>"Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
>self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best
>you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>se%40gmail.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>m%40gmail.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>se%40gmail.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/robinmel71%40earthlink.net




From ignasicambra at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 04:39:27 2012
From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 00:39:27 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Slightly OT: Strange Email
In-Reply-To: <26B710DFE5B549389E15D778D2833C71@stanford.edu>
References: <26B710DFE5B549389E15D778D2833C71@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <-7712100988252912562@unknownmsgid>

Not me.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 11, 2012, at 11:57 PM, "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home"
<ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:

> I just now received an email asking me my grade level and if I am totally blind. It was written in broken English. Has anyone else received any such email?
>
> Nicole
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com


From isaiah5719 at mchsi.com  Mon Mar 12 11:14:41 2012
From: isaiah5719 at mchsi.com (Loren Wakefield)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 06:14:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Slightly OT: Strange Email
In-Reply-To: <26B710DFE5B549389E15D778D2833C71@stanford.edu>
References: <26B710DFE5B549389E15D778D2833C71@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <6461B3CE57A646A6BD837CFAD52D234D@LorenPC>

no, but I would bring it to the people at your provider about this.  It 
sounds like a fishing scam.



-----Original Message----- 
From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 10:56 PM
To: NABS-L
Subject: [nabs-l] Slightly OT: Strange Email

I just now received an email asking me my grade level and if I am totally 
blind. It was written in broken English. Has anyone else received any such 
email?

Nicole
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com 



From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 13:16:41 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 08:16:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com><7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC><CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com><CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com><CAMJOM=2EB5vjkEg0SLojdiJYOT+VzFf5kCJ-peAafqNVm+AeMQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJAsw879Pi3Y0KMUaK1Ti5NtMtO4nnUGVqep=Zyg8cEYGQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3BFE0E50CAFB49A7BF23F4D51E095A94@Gloria>

Hi,
I just wanted to let you guys know if you haven't already heard there is a 
refreshable braille display tha tyou can purchase and get info about from 
the American Printing House for the blind (APH) that will work with all 
apple products like the I-phone and I-pad. It is about eight hundred dollars 
but is very helpful from what I have seen.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender


>I forget if I mentioned this earlier, but Mike Hingson sells the KNFB
> Reader Mobile and he might still be able to sell you a Nokia phone
> with Talks or MobileSpeak but without the KNFB Reader software. If you
> google Michael Hingson he has a company webpage with contact info.
> Arielle
>
> On 3/9/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> if anyone needs help with iOS, let me know. Love my iTouch and iPhone, :)
>>
>> On 3/6/12, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Justin,
>>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>>> Katie
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not 
>>>>> sure
>>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>>
>>>>> Justin
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via gmail.com
>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>> Skype: joshgregory93
>>  twitter: JoshG93
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 13:23:32 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 08:23:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] fw: Brailliant Braille display now supported by iOS 5.1
References: <4f5c1dbd.080ae00a.0c5d.304a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <9343D1681BBA4DC0942C823209CCAFA0@Gloria>

Hi
Is this product from human wear or american printing house for the blind? Do 
you know where I can get a user guide for this product and has anyone used 
one and can tell some of the draw backs to using this device?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
To: "NFB NABS list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "NFB Blind Talk list" 
<blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "ACB list" <acb-l at acb.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 10:35 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] fw: Brailliant Braille display now supported by iOS 5.1


> FYI:
>
> ---- Original Message ------
> From: HumanWare <marcom at humanware.com
> Subject: HumanWare Brailliant Braille Display now supported with iOS 5.1
> Date sent: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 21:51:58 -0500
>
> A Winning Combination
>
> Apple just announced a new iOS version for their line of iDevices.  This
> new iOS version brings new excitement and new features, along with new
> support for HumanWare's Brailliant braille displays.  After updating
> your iDevice to version 5.1, wirelessly connect your iDevice to a
> HumanWare Brailliant display and take advantage of the sleek design, high
> quality braille cells, and ergonomic keyboard and thumb keys that have
> been adored by BrailleNote Apex users.  Whether you are using a new
> Brailliant braille display, or a BrailleNote Apex, control your
> iDevice with the braille input keys, read messages, emails, or iBooks,
> and type responses or documents in contracted or uncontracted
> braille, all without the touch screen of the iDevice.
>
> Brailliant braille displays come in 32, 40, or 80 cell models.
>
> For more information about the new HumanWare Brailliant display, please
> visit:
>
> www.humanware.c
> om/en-usa/produ
> cts/blindness/b
> raille_displays
>
> or contact your local HumanWare representative.
>
> U.S.
> Tel: 800.722.3393
> Canada
> Tel: 888.723.7273
>
> Unsubscribe 
> http://visit.humanware.com/unsubscribe/u/3332/d45ff76efa2b26dd4a8
> 021f4cc94cbe8/385852708 from our newsletter.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 12 13:15:54 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 09:15:54 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Slightly OT: Strange Email
In-Reply-To: <26B710DFE5B549389E15D778D2833C71@stanford.edu>
References: <26B710DFE5B549389E15D778D2833C71@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <23A0A0C3213A4A39A77741B5565AC8D1@OwnerPC>

No, its probably spam.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 11:56 PM
To: NABS-L
Subject: [nabs-l] Slightly OT: Strange Email

I just now received an email asking me my grade level and if I am totally 
blind. It was written in broken English. Has anyone else received any such 
email?

Nicole
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 12 13:15:18 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 09:15:18 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
In-Reply-To: <D72572FB56A44F39ADC3340D51CC4CA4@stanford.edu>
References: <4f5d40b7.c2b8340a.7ee8.5bb5@mx.google.com><0A80872D4CA0475F9A7D92F3EA525FF0@OwnerPC>
	<D72572FB56A44F39ADC3340D51CC4CA4@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <8A1FC010EDAD46C8A70756614D99253F@OwnerPC>

Nicole,
Where do you get touch the stars?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 10:37 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

I would definitely recommend trying to get a copy of Touch the Stars II.
It's tactile diagrams will be easier to understand both because they are
explained well and because they were made knowing that they were for the
blind.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring


> Chris,
> Geometry and astronomy are interesting. Geometry has some real world 
> problem solving applications.
> I didn't like it but somehow got through it. I'm not an abstract thinker.
> I remember how you compare shapes and figure out the missing angle number 
> and things like that. The problem solving and critical thinking skills 
> carry over to other subjects though.
>
> For astronomy, well I did not take that in high school; Virginia doesn't 
> require that; we take different sciences.
>
> But I suggest getting tactile diagrams of the stars and galaxies. I think 
> NASA or National braille press has some books. One is called Touch the 
> stars.
> I think if your vi teacher explains diagrams and what the lines represent 
> and labels them, it will make more sense.
> Some concepts though are better illustrated in a 3 d thing; so you could 
> make a model for those situations.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:17 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of
> tactile graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them!
> I really don't like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if
> possible.  But we're doing geometry in math and astronomy in
> science, both of which are very visual units which require a lot
> of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a break from the
> constant
> diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready
> for our state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment
> (MSA.)
>
> Chris
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
> nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Hi Vejas,
> I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much
> out
> of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
> diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.
> But if
> you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if
> you
> can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my
> experience
> that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.)
> is
> not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you
> are
> learning about.
> You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is
> any
> free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the
> only
> student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your
> school
> has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
> available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your
> parents are
> willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when
> I was
> in high school.
> A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how
> to
> best explain the ideas to you.
> Arielle
>
> On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams
> have
> lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a
> lot,
> so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
> stands for.
> But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention
> to
> the diagrams.
> Vejas
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
> cluttered, then
> it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
> help you?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
>
>  Hi,
>  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
> My
>  teacher is OK, I guess.
>  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
> me, so I
>  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
> helped.
>  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers
> loves
> the way
>  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was
> a
> sighter
>  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
> stuff you
>  need? I have a test tomorrow.
>  Thanks for any input.
>  Vejas
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
> wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info
> for nabs-l:
>
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> mail.com
>
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> info for
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>
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> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
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> m%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 14:31:06 2012
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 08:31:06 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Slightly OT: Strange Email
Message-ID: <4f5e08bb.49093c0a.722c.1531@mx.google.com>

It's probably a fishing scam.  I've never had those strange 
emails you're talking about.  But I have gotten some disgusting 
emails about those weirdos who want to improve physical 
relationships.  Top that!
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 09:15:54 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Slightly OT: Strange Email

No, its probably spam.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 11:56 PM
To: NABS-L
Subject: [nabs-l] Slightly OT: Strange Email

I just now received an email asking me my grade level and if I am 
totally
blind. It was written in broken English. Has anyone else received 
any such
email?

Nicole
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
0earthlink.net


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 16:22:07 2012
From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 12:22:07 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Flowers Won't Be The Only Thing In Bloom This Season,
	So Will Audio Access FM
Message-ID: <76689247237A408CA38167847E112385@pc2011>

Hi Everyone!
Spring time is close at hand. Flowers will start to bloom. Those April showers will bring May Flowers, and May Flowers will bring pilgrims. But I digress.
However this year, flowers won't be the only thing growing and sprouting in the spring. The same can be said for Audio Access FM.
Beginning tonight, and most nights over the next few weeks, watch as Audio Access FM also begins to grow and become a thing of beauty like the green green grass of home.
Our new dj application, our fast moving tech team for processing applications and answering questions, our new and improved talking schedule and more are just some of the things that will make Audio Access FM grow into something special and wonderful and more unique than most other online radio stations you'll come across.
So as we spring ahead like the clocks did this weekend, watch as Audio Access FM does some blooming and growing of its own, starting tonight on tonight's Djd Invasion. Details about this evening's show follow:
The show begins tonight at 8 PM eastern on Audio Access FM and ACB Radio Interactive!
We've got all upbeat music to keep you moving in your chair, and maybe some songs to remind you of the warmth of the up coming summer season in a few months!
The promised new Carrie Underwood song from last week that we didn't get to play will be heard tonight.
And since St Patrick's Day is around the corner, we'll be doing an Irish set too.
All of this, plus your requests by email at
thedjdinvasion at audioaccessfm.com
Via...Well. There will be another way to communicate with me tonight, but that's a surprise you'll have to check out when you tune in...

I can also be reached via skype at
audio.accessfm
or via telephone by dialing
516 324 2314
or give me a mention on twitter, the twitter name is
djdrocks

And to listen to tonight's show, visit
http://www.audioaccessfm.com/listen_live.php
between 8 and 10PM eastern.
So between upbeat music, a set of irish tunes, a surprise announcement and more, we've got a jam packed two hours tonight. And I hope you'll join me. See you then!
>From DJd, host of The Djd Invasion On Audio Access FM
http://www.audioaccessfm.com
and ACB Radio Interactive
http://interactive.acbradio.org

From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Mon Mar 12 16:28:57 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 09:28:57 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
References: <4f5d40b7.c2b8340a.7ee8.5bb5@mx.google.com><0A80872D4CA0475F9A7D92F3EA525FF0@OwnerPC><D72572FB56A44F39ADC3340D51CC4CA4@stanford.edu>
	<8A1FC010EDAD46C8A70756614D99253F@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <FC956D1C4C9A4F39A27EC39880E2A846@stanford.edu>

I think that it is from National Braille Press. You could probably find it 
by googling Touch the Stars. I know that whoever makes the series is no 
longer making the first book, but they should still be making the second 
book, which is better anyway.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring


> Nicole,
> Where do you get touch the stars?
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 10:37 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> I would definitely recommend trying to get a copy of Touch the Stars II.
> It's tactile diagrams will be easier to understand both because they are
> explained well and because they were made knowing that they were for the
> blind.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 7:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
>
>> Chris,
>> Geometry and astronomy are interesting. Geometry has some real world 
>> problem solving applications.
>> I didn't like it but somehow got through it. I'm not an abstract thinker.
>> I remember how you compare shapes and figure out the missing angle number 
>> and things like that. The problem solving and critical thinking skills 
>> carry over to other subjects though.
>>
>> For astronomy, well I did not take that in high school; Virginia doesn't 
>> require that; we take different sciences.
>>
>> But I suggest getting tactile diagrams of the stars and galaxies. I think 
>> NASA or National braille press has some books. One is called Touch the 
>> stars.
>> I think if your vi teacher explains diagrams and what the lines represent 
>> and labels them, it will make more sense.
>> Some concepts though are better illustrated in a 3 d thing; so you could 
>> make a model for those situations.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:17 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of
>> tactile graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them!
>> I really don't like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if
>> possible.  But we're doing geometry in math and astronomy in
>> science, both of which are very visual units which require a lot
>> of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a break from the
>> constant
>> diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready
>> for our state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment
>> (MSA.)
>>
>> Chris
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>> nuisance."
>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Hi Vejas,
>> I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much
>> out
>> of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
>> diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.
>> But if
>> you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if
>> you
>> can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my
>> experience
>> that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.)
>> is
>> not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you
>> are
>> learning about.
>> You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is
>> any
>> free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the
>> only
>> student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your
>> school
>> has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
>> available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your
>> parents are
>> willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when
>> I was
>> in high school.
>> A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how
>> to
>> best explain the ideas to you.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams
>> have
>> lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a
>> lot,
>> so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
>> stands for.
>> But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention
>> to
>> the diagrams.
>> Vejas
>>
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
>> cluttered, then
>> it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
>> help you?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>>
>>  Hi,
>>  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
>> My
>>  teacher is OK, I guess.
>>  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
>> me, so I
>>  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
>> helped.
>>  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers
>> loves
>> the way
>>  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was
>> a
>> sighter
>>  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
>> stuff you
>>  need? I have a test tomorrow.
>>  Thanks for any input.
>>  Vejas
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>  nabs-l:
>>
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
>> wavecable.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info
>> for nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40g
>> mail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>> mail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>> m%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From aubielynn at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 17:38:51 2012
From: aubielynn at gmail.com (Aubrie Lucas)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 09:38:51 -0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Slightly OT: Strange Email
In-Reply-To: <26B710DFE5B549389E15D778D2833C71@stanford.edu>
References: <26B710DFE5B549389E15D778D2833C71@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <002e01cd0077$01681900$04384b00$@com>

Who was it from?

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 7:56 PM
To: NABS-L
Subject: [nabs-l] Slightly OT: Strange Email

I just now received an email asking me my grade level and if I am totally
blind. It was written in broken English. Has anyone else received any such
email?

Nicole
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aubielynn%40gmail.com



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Mon Mar 12 18:13:22 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 11:13:22 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Slightly OT: Strange Email
References: <26B710DFE5B549389E15D778D2833C71@stanford.edu>
	<002e01cd0077$01681900$04384b00$@com>
Message-ID: <FC356C220A2342E7B2AA20412F42747D@stanford.edu>

"Robin?"

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Aubrie Lucas" <aubielynn at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Slightly OT: Strange Email


> Who was it from?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 7:56 PM
> To: NABS-L
> Subject: [nabs-l] Slightly OT: Strange Email
>
> I just now received an email asking me my grade level and if I am totally
> blind. It was written in broken English. Has anyone else received any such
> email?
>
> Nicole
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/aubielynn%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 18:30:30 2012
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:30:30 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Great school news!
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOuY42VZWu=iH0TF6CvYB7H5d4JL5tCj49_C0iQL7PMKvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO83KOvXk7Prw_5=byD4NZqYAty=tUWFbMNcyxXfF8O9CVFv7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<024FBBD1062C44E5B07EF4BCFE01B6DB@ZachlaptopPC>
	<CABORmNtE0uztpOCJ7G052GaWjCjgeq_r5umoK--Xr81Ezuec7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuY42VZWu=iH0TF6CvYB7H5d4JL5tCj49_C0iQL7PMKvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABORmNu8paY_+w-Ki3w1aexAy1pLAdP+u0g=GDH1B6LJOoVyqw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Joshua,
Not this year, sorry. Maybe next year in Orlando. Too many expenses
around the house this year, plus having to buy a new laptop for my
boyfriend because his was near dead, and I spent quite a bit on a D.C.
trip for his birthday present.

Good luck finding a notetaker. Do you look on Matilda Zeigler?
Sometimes they have advertisements for things on sale that are a great
deal.

Yours Truly,
Jewel

On 3/8/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> Hi Jewel!
> I will!
> Will you be at convention, this year?
> Maybe, you could help me find a good deal on a notetaker.
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 3/8/12, Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear Joshua,
>> I am glad that you are finally getting what you need to do your best
>> in school. I hope things go smoother now that you'll have Braille
>> textbooks. Keep us updated on it!
>>
>> ~Jewel
>>
>> On 3/8/12, Zach <zach2012 at chickerland.com> wrote:
>>> flying blind is selling some BSP's for $3500! I'd check top tech tidbits.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Zach Griego-Dreicer
>>> Email: zach2012 at chickerland.com
>>> Skype and Twitter: Chickerland
>>> Facebook profile: http://www.facebook.com/chickerland or find me using
>>> this
>>> email address.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Joshua Lester
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 7:36 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Great school news!
>>>
>>> Things are starting to go my way!
>>> After 2, and a half years of attending Phillips Community College, I'm
>>> finally going to have Braille books, starting this Fall!
>>> I did some research, and found Midwestern Braille Volunteers, (thanks
>>> in part, to a member of this list,) and I found out, that my VR
>>> counselor can pay them for my books!
>>> Now, let's hope I can get a good deal, on a notetaker, at convention!
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zach2012%40chickerland.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon Mar 12 18:41:34 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 13:41:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Great school news!
In-Reply-To: <CABORmNu8paY_+w-Ki3w1aexAy1pLAdP+u0g=GDH1B6LJOoVyqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO83KOvXk7Prw_5=byD4NZqYAty=tUWFbMNcyxXfF8O9CVFv7Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<024FBBD1062C44E5B07EF4BCFE01B6DB@ZachlaptopPC>
	<CABORmNtE0uztpOCJ7G052GaWjCjgeq_r5umoK--Xr81Ezuec7g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuY42VZWu=iH0TF6CvYB7H5d4JL5tCj49_C0iQL7PMKvw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABORmNu8paY_+w-Ki3w1aexAy1pLAdP+u0g=GDH1B6LJOoVyqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvO2sa=bpSaZ-W2iuzW1nmz3dfFsaRT=Y_MT9OhDw7CuA@mail.gmail.com>

I don't get their magazine, but someone on this list put my request
out there, in the magazine, but noone has contacted me.
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/12/12, Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Joshua,
> Not this year, sorry. Maybe next year in Orlando. Too many expenses
> around the house this year, plus having to buy a new laptop for my
> boyfriend because his was near dead, and I spent quite a bit on a D.C.
> trip for his birthday present.
>
> Good luck finding a notetaker. Do you look on Matilda Zeigler?
> Sometimes they have advertisements for things on sale that are a great
> deal.
>
> Yours Truly,
> Jewel
>
> On 3/8/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> Hi Jewel!
>> I will!
>> Will you be at convention, this year?
>> Maybe, you could help me find a good deal on a notetaker.
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/8/12, Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dear Joshua,
>>> I am glad that you are finally getting what you need to do your best
>>> in school. I hope things go smoother now that you'll have Braille
>>> textbooks. Keep us updated on it!
>>>
>>> ~Jewel
>>>
>>> On 3/8/12, Zach <zach2012 at chickerland.com> wrote:
>>>> flying blind is selling some BSP's for $3500! I'd check top tech
>>>> tidbits.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Zach Griego-Dreicer
>>>> Email: zach2012 at chickerland.com
>>>> Skype and Twitter: Chickerland
>>>> Facebook profile: http://www.facebook.com/chickerland or find me using
>>>> this
>>>> email address.
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Joshua Lester
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2012 7:36 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Great school news!
>>>>
>>>> Things are starting to go my way!
>>>> After 2, and a half years of attending Phillips Community College, I'm
>>>> finally going to have Braille books, starting this Fall!
>>>> I did some research, and found Midwestern Braille Volunteers, (thanks
>>>> in part, to a member of this list,) and I found out, that my VR
>>>> counselor can pay them for my books!
>>>> Now, let's hope I can get a good deal, on a notetaker, at convention!
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zach2012%40chickerland.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon Mar 12 19:42:48 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:42:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvXw4vK=xFjjuyQwiQsmaMNqGc8psMM__0UpsPm3qKiYg@mail.gmail.com>

I started a similar thread, on another list, so I figured I'd take
another poll, on this list.
One time, I went to the vending machine, at school, and put in my change.
Afterwards, I pushed the button, labeled "Dr Pepper," but when I
pushed it, I got a Mountain Dew!
Am I the only one, that this has happened to, on this list?
I have a question about this very subject.
At LWSB, they had Braille labels, on the coke machines, but why don't
they require, that colleges do the same?
Thanks, Joshua


From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 20:17:30 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:17:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
References: <CAO83KOvXw4vK=xFjjuyQwiQsmaMNqGc8psMM__0UpsPm3qKiYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6A5A2A0DAB52437FAEE0F5FFD6223FC4@Gloria>

Hi,
What I have found helpful is to have someone in the hall help me with the 
machine and then later I will remember what things I like to be able to come 
back later to get a snack or soda. Just a thought!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 2:42 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?


>I started a similar thread, on another list, so I figured I'd take
> another poll, on this list.
> One time, I went to the vending machine, at school, and put in my change.
> Afterwards, I pushed the button, labeled "Dr Pepper," but when I
> pushed it, I got a Mountain Dew!
> Am I the only one, that this has happened to, on this list?
> I have a question about this very subject.
> At LWSB, they had Braille labels, on the coke machines, but why don't
> they require, that colleges do the same?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com 



From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 20:19:47 2012
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:19:47 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
Message-ID: <4f5e5a75.4616440a.3ce4.2ba3@mx.google.com>

Yes, I've aked for a pepsi and a Mountain Dew popped out of the 
machine.  I think colleges are a bit finicky when it comes to 
braille on doors, let alone braille on vending achines.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:42:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?

I started a similar thread, on another list, so I figured I'd 
take
another poll, on this list.
One time, I went to the vending machine, at school, and put in my 
change.
Afterwards, I pushed the button, labeled "Dr Pepper," but when I
pushed it, I got a Mountain Dew!
Am I the only one, that this has happened to, on this list?
I have a question about this very subject.
At LWSB, they had Braille labels, on the coke machines, but why 
don't
they require, that colleges do the same?
Thanks, Joshua

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
se%40gmail.com


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon Mar 12 20:24:51 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:24:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
In-Reply-To: <6A5A2A0DAB52437FAEE0F5FFD6223FC4@Gloria>
References: <CAO83KOvXw4vK=xFjjuyQwiQsmaMNqGc8psMM__0UpsPm3qKiYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6A5A2A0DAB52437FAEE0F5FFD6223FC4@Gloria>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOsOwK706MW0FEWa-VGdv1Mv3=zdPn3CTimYw8npka-LUA@mail.gmail.com>

Here's the wierd thing, at my college!
They have shown me, which button, to push to get Dr Pepper, but the
problem is that when I push that button, sometimes I get Mountain Dew.
I won't know it, until I open it, because sometimes, I'm by myself,
after class, especially when it's late at night.
I haven't had the problem, since last semester, but I hate it, when it happens!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/12/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> What I have found helpful is to have someone in the hall help me with the
> machine and then later I will remember what things I like to be able to come
> back later to get a snack or soda. Just a thought!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 2:42 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>
>
>>I started a similar thread, on another list, so I figured I'd take
>> another poll, on this list.
>> One time, I went to the vending machine, at school, and put in my change.
>> Afterwards, I pushed the button, labeled "Dr Pepper," but when I
>> pushed it, I got a Mountain Dew!
>> Am I the only one, that this has happened to, on this list?
>> I have a question about this very subject.
>> At LWSB, they had Braille labels, on the coke machines, but why don't
>> they require, that colleges do the same?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon Mar 12 20:27:23 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:27:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
In-Reply-To: <4f5e5a75.4616440a.3ce4.2ba3@mx.google.com>
References: <4f5e5a75.4616440a.3ce4.2ba3@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtMyn9AKk+S4ThT6w5a_+oaVycqWkNTPZFhHCnafr8aDw@mail.gmail.com>

I think it should be illegal, for them not to put Braille labels where
they belong!
Doors, and vending machines, are two things, that need Braille labels,
so we can know what to do, and where we're going!
My main problem, is that they won't put Braille on the snack machines!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/12/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, I've aked for a pepsi and a Mountain Dew popped out of the
> machine.  I think colleges are a bit finicky when it comes to
> braille on doors, let alone braille on vending achines.
> Beth
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:42:48 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>
> I started a similar thread, on another list, so I figured I'd
> take
> another poll, on this list.
> One time, I went to the vending machine, at school, and put in my
> change.
> Afterwards, I pushed the button, labeled "Dr Pepper," but when I
> pushed it, I got a Mountain Dew!
> Am I the only one, that this has happened to, on this list?
> I have a question about this very subject.
> At LWSB, they had Braille labels, on the coke machines, but why
> don't
> they require, that colleges do the same?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
> se%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From marsha.drenth at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 20:40:25 2012
From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 16:40:25 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOtMyn9AKk+S4ThT6w5a_+oaVycqWkNTPZFhHCnafr8aDw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f5e5a75.4616440a.3ce4.2ba3@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOtMyn9AKk+S4ThT6w5a_+oaVycqWkNTPZFhHCnafr8aDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CA252128840418CA279574C002876A9@Cptr233>

If you use the same soda machine every time, then put Braille labels on it
yourself. Ask a sighted person to tell you what is in the machine, make the
Braille labels with Dymo tape, and then stick them on yourself. 

We as students must start taking some of the accessibility into our own
hands. You can ask, you can beg, but if you get no results then do it
yourself. If you wan to change it, change it. And if someone says your not
suppose to do that, say I am blind, and I would like to know what is in the
machine to drink. 

Two cents
Marsha 


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:27 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?

I think it should be illegal, for them not to put Braille labels where
they belong!
Doors, and vending machines, are two things, that need Braille labels,
so we can know what to do, and where we're going!
My main problem, is that they won't put Braille on the snack machines!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/12/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, I've aked for a pepsi and a Mountain Dew popped out of the
> machine.  I think colleges are a bit finicky when it comes to
> braille on doors, let alone braille on vending achines.
> Beth
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:42:48 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>
> I started a similar thread, on another list, so I figured I'd
> take
> another poll, on this list.
> One time, I went to the vending machine, at school, and put in my
> change.
> Afterwards, I pushed the button, labeled "Dr Pepper," but when I
> pushed it, I got a Mountain Dew!
> Am I the only one, that this has happened to, on this list?
> I have a question about this very subject.
> At LWSB, they had Braille labels, on the coke machines, but why
> don't
> they require, that colleges do the same?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
> se%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p
ccua.edu
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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m
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 6961 (20120312) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 
 

__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 6961 (20120312) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon Mar 12 20:44:15 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:44:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
In-Reply-To: <8CA252128840418CA279574C002876A9@Cptr233>
References: <4f5e5a75.4616440a.3ce4.2ba3@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOtMyn9AKk+S4ThT6w5a_+oaVycqWkNTPZFhHCnafr8aDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CA252128840418CA279574C002876A9@Cptr233>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtL9CPgNXkm6R+m753qe45XGwnTkVGyfPwi_SPwsm2vXQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'd do that, but I tried that, in High school, and the kids took the labels off.
This is a community college, and we have high schoolers coming during
the day, for their colege credits, so that's one of my fears.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/12/12, Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com> wrote:
> If you use the same soda machine every time, then put Braille labels on it
> yourself. Ask a sighted person to tell you what is in the machine, make the
> Braille labels with Dymo tape, and then stick them on yourself.
>
> We as students must start taking some of the accessibility into our own
> hands. You can ask, you can beg, but if you get no results then do it
> yourself. If you wan to change it, change it. And if someone says your not
> suppose to do that, say I am blind, and I would like to know what is in the
> machine to drink.
>
> Two cents
> Marsha
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Joshua Lester
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:27 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>
> I think it should be illegal, for them not to put Braille labels where
> they belong!
> Doors, and vending machines, are two things, that need Braille labels,
> so we can know what to do, and where we're going!
> My main problem, is that they won't put Braille on the snack machines!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/12/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yes, I've aked for a pepsi and a Mountain Dew popped out of the
>> machine.  I think colleges are a bit finicky when it comes to
>> braille on doors, let alone braille on vending achines.
>> Beth
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:42:48 -0500
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>>
>> I started a similar thread, on another list, so I figured I'd
>> take
>> another poll, on this list.
>> One time, I went to the vending machine, at school, and put in my
>> change.
>> Afterwards, I pushed the button, labeled "Dr Pepper," but when I
>> pushed it, I got a Mountain Dew!
>> Am I the only one, that this has happened to, on this list?
>> I have a question about this very subject.
>> At LWSB, they had Braille labels, on the coke machines, but why
>> don't
>> they require, that colleges do the same?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>> se%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p
> ccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 6961 (20120312) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
> database 6961 (20120312) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Mon Mar 12 20:56:01 2012
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:56:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
In-Reply-To: <8CA252128840418CA279574C002876A9@Cptr233>
Message-ID: <auto-000006330631@mailback4.g2host.com>

Also be aware of the fact that which buttons release which products can change when the machine is 
refilled.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Mon, 12 Mar 2012 16:40:25 -0400, Marsha Drenth wrote:

>If you use the same soda machine every time, then put Braille labels on it
>yourself. Ask a sighted person to tell you what is in the machine, make the
>Braille labels with Dymo tape, and then stick them on yourself. 

>We as students must start taking some of the accessibility into our own
>hands. You can ask, you can beg, but if you get no results then do it
>yourself. If you wan to change it, change it. And if someone says your not
>suppose to do that, say I am blind, and I would like to know what is in the
>machine to drink. 

>Two cents
>Marsha 


>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Joshua Lester
>Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:27 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?

>I think it should be illegal, for them not to put Braille labels where
>they belong!
>Doors, and vending machines, are two things, that need Braille labels,
>so we can know what to do, and where we're going!
>My main problem, is that they won't put Braille on the snack machines!
>Blessings, Joshua

>On 3/12/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yes, I've aked for a pepsi and a Mountain Dew popped out of the
>> machine.  I think colleges are a bit finicky when it comes to
>> braille on doors, let alone braille on vending achines.
>> Beth
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:42:48 -0500
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>>
>> I started a similar thread, on another list, so I figured I'd
>> take
>> another poll, on this list.
>> One time, I went to the vending machine, at school, and put in my
>> change.
>> Afterwards, I pushed the button, labeled "Dr Pepper," but when I
>> pushed it, I got a Mountain Dew!
>> Am I the only one, that this has happened to, on this list?
>> I have a question about this very subject.
>> At LWSB, they had Braille labels, on the coke machines, but why
>> don't
>> they require, that colleges do the same?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>> se%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p
>ccua.edu
>>

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmail.co
>m
> 

>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
>database 6961 (20120312) __________

>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

>http://www.eset.com
> 
> 

>__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
>database 6961 (20120312) __________

>The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

>http://www.eset.com
> 


>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 12 21:44:48 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 17:44:48 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
In-Reply-To: <4f5e5a75.4616440a.3ce4.2ba3@mx.google.com>
References: <4f5e5a75.4616440a.3ce4.2ba3@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <782F3F90C2C2425183B1E1C2B8B00802@OwnerPC>

Hi,
Whhile this did not happen to me, I've heard it happen to others; this is 
since braille labels are placed incorrectly. I would do what Gloria 
suggested. I ask someone to show me where the buttons are for the items I 
want. Then I remember and do it independently or just continue to obtain 
sighted  help.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Beth
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:19 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?

Yes, I've aked for a pepsi and a Mountain Dew popped out of the
machine.  I think colleges are a bit finicky when it comes to
braille on doors, let alone braille on vending achines.
Beth

----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:42:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?

I started a similar thread, on another list, so I figured I'd
take
another poll, on this list.
One time, I went to the vending machine, at school, and put in my
change.
Afterwards, I pushed the button, labeled "Dr Pepper," but when I
pushed it, I got a Mountain Dew!
Am I the only one, that this has happened to, on this list?
I have a question about this very subject.
At LWSB, they had Braille labels, on the coke machines, but why
don't
they require, that colleges do the same?
Thanks, Joshua

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
se%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 12 21:49:13 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 17:49:13 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOtMyn9AKk+S4ThT6w5a_+oaVycqWkNTPZFhHCnafr8aDw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f5e5a75.4616440a.3ce4.2ba3@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOtMyn9AKk+S4ThT6w5a_+oaVycqWkNTPZFhHCnafr8aDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E5932523C9994D72B528B26384FB079C@OwnerPC>

Joshua,
Its not a legal requirement.
What you should do is braille the labels yourself and with a sighted person 
put them on.
They shouldn't have a problem with you brailling the labels.
What do you mean
they won't put them on the snack machines? Did  you ask and they refused? 
This may be the  case with no one knowing braille
at your school; but if you offered to do it, I fail to see the problem. Just 
use clear dimo tape so its see through and no one should be affected.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:27 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?

I think it should be illegal, for them not to put Braille labels where
they belong!
Doors, and vending machines, are two things, that need Braille labels,
so we can know what to do, and where we're going!
My main problem, is that they won't put Braille on the snack machines!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/12/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, I've aked for a pepsi and a Mountain Dew popped out of the
> machine.  I think colleges are a bit finicky when it comes to
> braille on doors, let alone braille on vending achines.
> Beth
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:42:48 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>
> I started a similar thread, on another list, so I figured I'd
> take
> another poll, on this list.
> One time, I went to the vending machine, at school, and put in my
> change.
> Afterwards, I pushed the button, labeled "Dr Pepper," but when I
> pushed it, I got a Mountain Dew!
> Am I the only one, that this has happened to, on this list?
> I have a question about this very subject.
> At LWSB, they had Braille labels, on the coke machines, but why
> don't
> they require, that colleges do the same?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
> se%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 12 21:50:58 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 17:50:58 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
In-Reply-To: <8CA252128840418CA279574C002876A9@Cptr233>
References: <4f5e5a75.4616440a.3ce4.2ba3@mx.google.com><CAO83KOtMyn9AKk+S4ThT6w5a_+oaVycqWkNTPZFhHCnafr8aDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CA252128840418CA279574C002876A9@Cptr233>
Message-ID: <0AE79F5DD1C04C0093B7802C9342A225@OwnerPC>

exactly Marsha; I said the same thing.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Marsha Drenth
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:40 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?

If you use the same soda machine every time, then put Braille labels on it
yourself. Ask a sighted person to tell you what is in the machine, make the
Braille labels with Dymo tape, and then stick them on yourself.

We as students must start taking some of the accessibility into our own
hands. You can ask, you can beg, but if you get no results then do it
yourself. If you wan to change it, change it. And if someone says your not
suppose to do that, say I am blind, and I would like to know what is in the
machine to drink.

Two cents
Marsha


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:27 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?

I think it should be illegal, for them not to put Braille labels where
they belong!
Doors, and vending machines, are two things, that need Braille labels,
so we can know what to do, and where we're going!
My main problem, is that they won't put Braille on the snack machines!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/12/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, I've aked for a pepsi and a Mountain Dew popped out of the
> machine.  I think colleges are a bit finicky when it comes to
> braille on doors, let alone braille on vending achines.
> Beth
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:42:48 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>
> I started a similar thread, on another list, so I figured I'd
> take
> another poll, on this list.
> One time, I went to the vending machine, at school, and put in my
> change.
> Afterwards, I pushed the button, labeled "Dr Pepper," but when I
> pushed it, I got a Mountain Dew!
> Am I the only one, that this has happened to, on this list?
> I have a question about this very subject.
> At LWSB, they had Braille labels, on the coke machines, but why
> don't
> they require, that colleges do the same?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
> se%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p
ccua.edu
>

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 12 21:52:20 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 17:52:20 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOtL9CPgNXkm6R+m753qe45XGwnTkVGyfPwi_SPwsm2vXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f5e5a75.4616440a.3ce4.2ba3@mx.google.com><CAO83KOtMyn9AKk+S4ThT6w5a_+oaVycqWkNTPZFhHCnafr8aDw@mail.gmail.com><8CA252128840418CA279574C002876A9@Cptr233>
	<CAO83KOtL9CPgNXkm6R+m753qe45XGwnTkVGyfPwi_SPwsm2vXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <337F630F540E4C5EBDB75A75E70603C7@OwnerPC>

I don't think it will be taken off. Just try it; don't let a what if senario 
stop you.
High schoolers are less mature. Besides, there may be cameras around and if 
they are taken off, cameras will see them or faculty members will see and 
report them.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:44 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?

I'd do that, but I tried that, in High school, and the kids took the labels 
off.
This is a community college, and we have high schoolers coming during
the day, for their colege credits, so that's one of my fears.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/12/12, Marsha Drenth <marsha.drenth at gmail.com> wrote:
> If you use the same soda machine every time, then put Braille labels on it
> yourself. Ask a sighted person to tell you what is in the machine, make 
> the
> Braille labels with Dymo tape, and then stick them on yourself.
>
> We as students must start taking some of the accessibility into our own
> hands. You can ask, you can beg, but if you get no results then do it
> yourself. If you wan to change it, change it. And if someone says your not
> suppose to do that, say I am blind, and I would like to know what is in 
> the
> machine to drink.
>
> Two cents
> Marsha
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Joshua Lester
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:27 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>
> I think it should be illegal, for them not to put Braille labels where
> they belong!
> Doors, and vending machines, are two things, that need Braille labels,
> so we can know what to do, and where we're going!
> My main problem, is that they won't put Braille on the snack machines!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/12/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yes, I've aked for a pepsi and a Mountain Dew popped out of the
>> machine.  I think colleges are a bit finicky when it comes to
>> braille on doors, let alone braille on vending achines.
>> Beth
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:42:48 -0500
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>>
>> I started a similar thread, on another list, so I figured I'd
>> take
>> another poll, on this list.
>> One time, I went to the vending machine, at school, and put in my
>> change.
>> Afterwards, I pushed the button, labeled "Dr Pepper," but when I
>> pushed it, I got a Mountain Dew!
>> Am I the only one, that this has happened to, on this list?
>> I have a question about this very subject.
>> At LWSB, they had Braille labels, on the coke machines, but why
>> don't
>> they require, that colleges do the same?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>> se%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p
> ccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
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> signature
> database 6961 (20120312) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
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> signature
> database 6961 (20120312) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
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> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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From AllisonH at benetech.org  Mon Mar 12 22:21:51 2012
From: AllisonH at benetech.org (Allison Hilliker)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 15:21:51 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Join Bookshare's Worldwide 10th Anniversary Celebration!
In-Reply-To: <337F630F540E4C5EBDB75A75E70603C7@OwnerPC>
References: <4f5e5a75.4616440a.3ce4.2ba3@mx.google.com><CAO83KOtMyn9AKk+S4ThT6w5a_+oaVycqWkNTPZFhHCnafr8aDw@mail.gmail.com><8CA252128840418CA279574C002876A9@Cptr233>
	<CAO83KOtL9CPgNXkm6R+m753qe45XGwnTkVGyfPwi_SPwsm2vXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<337F630F540E4C5EBDB75A75E70603C7@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <D862367895B192479C33F05BA866425108A520F363@VA3DIAXVS451.RED001.local>


Hi NABS Listers,

Did you know that Bookshare is now 10-years-old? It's true! For a decade we've been happy to bring the joy of reading to thousands of people with print disabilities! We're celebrating throughout this year and you can join in the fun. Learn how by reading our most recent blog entry. http://blog.bookshare.org/2012/03/11/join-bookshares-worldwide-10th-anniversary-celebration/.
You may also read the anniversary press release here http://www.bookshare.org/_/aboutUs/2012/03/tenthAnniversary.

If you're not a Bookshare member, you may join at www.bookshare.org. If you're already a member, please help us spread the word about the service. We love hearing from our members, so feel free to reply to this post and share your Bookshare-related experiences. Or share the news of our 10th anniversary through your favorite social media network.

Thank you to all of the members and partners who have helped Bookshare to become such a success over the past 10 years!

Happy Reading!

Allison Hilliker
Bookshare Collection Development Associate
allisonh at benetech.org

From marsha.drenth at gmail.com  Mon Mar 12 23:56:41 2012
From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 19:56:41 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
In-Reply-To: <auto-000006330631@mailback4.g2host.com>
References: <8CA252128840418CA279574C002876A9@Cptr233>
	<auto-000006330631@mailback4.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <C2D9BD8D830F41438B1CF5A300F3B3D1@Cptr233>

Steve, 

Yes, I am aware that this is a possibility. But I guess its better than not
having them labeled at all. This also goes to say, that I would continue to
label the buttons even after highschool students would take the labels off.
Again, its better than nothing. 

Perhaps, because I am a non-traditional student, much older than most on
this list. If I see I want something done, then I do it. If I need a room
brailled, I do it. My point is that society, schools, universities,
employers are not always going to give us accessible materials, vending
machines, signs, or whatever. We as blind people have to find a way to make
it accessible on our own. 




-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Steve Jacobson
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:56 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?

Also be aware of the fact that which buttons release which products can
change when the machine is 
refilled.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Mon, 12 Mar 2012 16:40:25 -0400, Marsha Drenth wrote:

>If you use the same soda machine every time, then put Braille labels on it
>yourself. Ask a sighted person to tell you what is in the machine, make the
>Braille labels with Dymo tape, and then stick them on yourself. 

>We as students must start taking some of the accessibility into our own
>hands. You can ask, you can beg, but if you get no results then do it
>yourself. If you wan to change it, change it. And if someone says your not
>suppose to do that, say I am blind, and I would like to know what is in the
>machine to drink. 

>Two cents
>Marsha 


>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
>Of Joshua Lester
>Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:27 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?

>I think it should be illegal, for them not to put Braille labels where
>they belong!
>Doors, and vending machines, are two things, that need Braille labels,
>so we can know what to do, and where we're going!
>My main problem, is that they won't put Braille on the snack machines!
>Blessings, Joshua

>On 3/12/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yes, I've aked for a pepsi and a Mountain Dew popped out of the
>> machine.  I think colleges are a bit finicky when it comes to
>> braille on doors, let alone braille on vending achines.
>> Beth
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:42:48 -0500
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>>
>> I started a similar thread, on another list, so I figured I'd
>> take
>> another poll, on this list.
>> One time, I went to the vending machine, at school, and put in my
>> change.
>> Afterwards, I pushed the button, labeled "Dr Pepper," but when I
>> pushed it, I got a Mountain Dew!
>> Am I the only one, that this has happened to, on this list?
>> I have a question about this very subject.
>> At LWSB, they had Braille labels, on the coke machines, but why
>> don't
>> they require, that colleges do the same?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>> se%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.
p
>ccua.edu
>>

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmail.c
o
>m
> 

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>database 6961 (20120312) __________

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> 

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>_______________________________________________
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>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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om





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database 6961 (20120312) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 
 

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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com
 



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue Mar 13 00:05:54 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 19:05:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
In-Reply-To: <0AE79F5DD1C04C0093B7802C9342A225@OwnerPC>
References: <4f5e5a75.4616440a.3ce4.2ba3@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOtMyn9AKk+S4ThT6w5a_+oaVycqWkNTPZFhHCnafr8aDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CA252128840418CA279574C002876A9@Cptr233>
	<0AE79F5DD1C04C0093B7802C9342A225@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOumW=k=5go44nUKxF8-hbM5Nga6ugCcvy_uaYNWV_v9sA@mail.gmail.com>

Since I have the soda machine figured out, I'll just need to Braille
the labels, for the snack machines.
I'll have to get some assistance, tomorrow.
Thanks for the idea.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/12/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> exactly Marsha; I said the same thing.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marsha Drenth
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:40 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>
> If you use the same soda machine every time, then put Braille labels on it
> yourself. Ask a sighted person to tell you what is in the machine, make the
> Braille labels with Dymo tape, and then stick them on yourself.
>
> We as students must start taking some of the accessibility into our own
> hands. You can ask, you can beg, but if you get no results then do it
> yourself. If you wan to change it, change it. And if someone says your not
> suppose to do that, say I am blind, and I would like to know what is in the
> machine to drink.
>
> Two cents
> Marsha
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Joshua Lester
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:27 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>
> I think it should be illegal, for them not to put Braille labels where
> they belong!
> Doors, and vending machines, are two things, that need Braille labels,
> so we can know what to do, and where we're going!
> My main problem, is that they won't put Braille on the snack machines!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/12/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yes, I've aked for a pepsi and a Mountain Dew popped out of the
>> machine.  I think colleges are a bit finicky when it comes to
>> braille on doors, let alone braille on vending achines.
>> Beth
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:42:48 -0500
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>>
>> I started a similar thread, on another list, so I figured I'd
>> take
>> another poll, on this list.
>> One time, I went to the vending machine, at school, and put in my
>> change.
>> Afterwards, I pushed the button, labeled "Dr Pepper," but when I
>> pushed it, I got a Mountain Dew!
>> Am I the only one, that this has happened to, on this list?
>> I have a question about this very subject.
>> At LWSB, they had Braille labels, on the coke machines, but why
>> don't
>> they require, that colleges do the same?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>> se%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p
> ccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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> m
>
>
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> database 6961 (20120312) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
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>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>


From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Mar 13 00:30:09 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 19:30:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Youth Manager Job Posting External
Message-ID: <auto-000051779866@mailfront4.g2host.com>


>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Christina Davis [mailto:cdavis at BISM.org]
>Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 1:54 PM
>To: Christina Davis
>Subject: Youth Manager Job Posting External
>
>Hello and Happy Friday!
>
>
>
>BISM is looking for a great person to lead our Youth Division, attached you
>will find the position posting.  If you are interested or know of someone
>that will be a great addition to BISM's Rehabilitation Department please
>forward this message along.
>
>
>
>We have some great upcoming programs that are already in the planning stages
>and summer will be here before we know it, so we are looking to fill this
>position ASAP!
>
>
>
>Thank you in advance for your help in getting the word out about this
>position!
>
>
>
>Smiles,
>
>Christina
>
>________________________________
>
>No virus found in this message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 10.0.1424 / Virus Database: 2113/4860 - Release Date: 03/09/12
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
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From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Mar 13 00:32:38 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 19:32:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: National Federation of the Blind Endorses Legislation
 to Improve Prescription Drug Labeling
Message-ID: <auto-000051780032@mailfront4.g2host.com>


>
>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
>CONTACT:
>
>Chris Danielsen
>
>Director of Public Relations
>
>National Federation of the Blind
>
>(410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
>(410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
><mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org>cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>National Federation of the Blind Endorses Legislation
>  to Improve Prescription Drug Labeling
>
>
>
>Baltimore, Maryland (March 12, 2012): The 
>National Federation of the Blind, the oldest and 
>largest organization of blind people in the 
>country, today endorsed H.R. 4087, the 
>Prescription Drug Labeling Promotion Act of 
>2012.  This legislation, introduced by 
>Congressman Edward D. Markey (D-MA) on February 
>28, is intended to ensure that people who are 
>blind or have other print disabilities have full 
>access to the information included on their prescription drug labels.
>
>
>
>The legislation calls for the Secretary of 
>Health and Human Services to create a working 
>group consisting of stakeholders­such as 
>representatives of organizations of the 
>blind­which will develop and propagate best 
>practices and standards on access to 
>prescription drug labels by the blind and 
>visually impaired.  The working group would have 
>one year after the date of the Act’s enactment 
>to promulgate its guidance on best practices.
>
>
>
>Eighteen months after the promulgation of best 
>practices, the Comptroller General will evaluate 
>the level of access blind people have to 
>prescription drug labels, as well as the level 
>of compliance by pharmacies, and submit a review to Congress.
>
>
>
>“Blind people and those who are losing vision 
>must have access to the critical information 
>contained on prescription labels,” said Dr. Marc 
>Maurer, President of the National Federation of 
>the Blind.  “We thank Congressman Markey for 
>introducing this legislation and look forward to 
>participating in discussions to formulate best 
>practices for making this information accessible.”
>
>
>
>“No one should have to sacrifice their 
>independence or safety to take their 
>medication,” said Representative Markey, senior 
>member of the Energy and Commerce Committee and 
>author of the 21st Century Communications and 
>Video Accessibility Act.  “Being unable to read 
>prescription labels can lead to unnecessary 
>illness and added emergency room visits.  The 
>Prescription Drug Labeling Promotion Act helps 
>turn pharmacies into partners for empowering all 
>Americans to take full control of their 
>health.  It is another important step to ensure 
>that individuals who are blind can fully participate in 21st century society.”
>
>
>
>
>
>###
>
>
>
>
>
>About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>With more than 50,000 members, the National 
>Federation of the Blind is the largest and most 
>influential membership organization of blind 
>people in the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = 
>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" 
>/>United States. The NFB improves blind people’s 
>lives through advocacy, education, research, 
>technology, and programs encouraging 
>independence and self-confidence. It is the 
>leading force in the blindness field today and 
>the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 
>the NFB opened the National Federation of the 
>Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and 
>training center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Mar 13 00:48:26 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 20:48:26 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOumW=k=5go44nUKxF8-hbM5Nga6ugCcvy_uaYNWV_v9sA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f5e5a75.4616440a.3ce4.2ba3@mx.google.com><CAO83KOtMyn9AKk+S4ThT6w5a_+oaVycqWkNTPZFhHCnafr8aDw@mail.gmail.com><8CA252128840418CA279574C002876A9@Cptr233><0AE79F5DD1C04C0093B7802C9342A225@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOumW=k=5go44nUKxF8-hbM5Nga6ugCcvy_uaYNWV_v9sA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <68D0AABA50AE4586BA4651D720DBA158@OwnerPC>

Josh,
You  can label soda machines because buttons stay the same; pepsi is always 
pepsi. But if the snack machine is like the one I saw, you cannot label it.
Things change all the time. You have to see the number letter combination to 
understand it.
Then you press whatever combo the snack is in. So if cheezits is A 3
then you press A 3. However as they refill the machine, snacks go in 
different places so what was A 3 will no longer be A 3.

Anyway, I'd just ask someone to assist you; its usually not a big deal since 
students and staff roam the halls all the time.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 8:05 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?

Since I have the soda machine figured out, I'll just need to Braille
the labels, for the snack machines.
I'll have to get some assistance, tomorrow.
Thanks for the idea.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/12/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> exactly Marsha; I said the same thing.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marsha Drenth
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:40 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>
> If you use the same soda machine every time, then put Braille labels on it
> yourself. Ask a sighted person to tell you what is in the machine, make 
> the
> Braille labels with Dymo tape, and then stick them on yourself.
>
> We as students must start taking some of the accessibility into our own
> hands. You can ask, you can beg, but if you get no results then do it
> yourself. If you wan to change it, change it. And if someone says your not
> suppose to do that, say I am blind, and I would like to know what is in 
> the
> machine to drink.
>
> Two cents
> Marsha
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Joshua Lester
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:27 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>
> I think it should be illegal, for them not to put Braille labels where
> they belong!
> Doors, and vending machines, are two things, that need Braille labels,
> so we can know what to do, and where we're going!
> My main problem, is that they won't put Braille on the snack machines!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/12/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yes, I've aked for a pepsi and a Mountain Dew popped out of the
>> machine.  I think colleges are a bit finicky when it comes to
>> braille on doors, let alone braille on vending achines.
>> Beth
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:42:48 -0500
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>>
>> I started a similar thread, on another list, so I figured I'd
>> take
>> another poll, on this list.
>> One time, I went to the vending machine, at school, and put in my
>> change.
>> Afterwards, I pushed the button, labeled "Dr Pepper," but when I
>> pushed it, I got a Mountain Dew!
>> Am I the only one, that this has happened to, on this list?
>> I have a question about this very subject.
>> At LWSB, they had Braille labels, on the coke machines, but why
>> don't
>> they require, that colleges do the same?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>> se%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p
> ccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 6961 (20120312) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus 
> signature
> database 6961 (20120312) __________
>
> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue Mar 13 00:59:00 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 19:59:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
In-Reply-To: <68D0AABA50AE4586BA4651D720DBA158@OwnerPC>
References: <4f5e5a75.4616440a.3ce4.2ba3@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOtMyn9AKk+S4ThT6w5a_+oaVycqWkNTPZFhHCnafr8aDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CA252128840418CA279574C002876A9@Cptr233>
	<0AE79F5DD1C04C0093B7802C9342A225@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOumW=k=5go44nUKxF8-hbM5Nga6ugCcvy_uaYNWV_v9sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<68D0AABA50AE4586BA4651D720DBA158@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtpJa52AdGziJ7+uHcaYZthyv2wR70za1+74CrET3v9PQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the help!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/12/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Josh,
> You  can label soda machines because buttons stay the same; pepsi is always
> pepsi. But if the snack machine is like the one I saw, you cannot label it.
> Things change all the time. You have to see the number letter combination to
> understand it.
> Then you press whatever combo the snack is in. So if cheezits is A 3
> then you press A 3. However as they refill the machine, snacks go in
> different places so what was A 3 will no longer be A 3.
>
> Anyway, I'd just ask someone to assist you; its usually not a big deal since
> students and staff roam the halls all the time.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 8:05 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>
> Since I have the soda machine figured out, I'll just need to Braille
> the labels, for the snack machines.
> I'll have to get some assistance, tomorrow.
> Thanks for the idea.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/12/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> exactly Marsha; I said the same thing.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Marsha Drenth
>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:40 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>>
>> If you use the same soda machine every time, then put Braille labels on it
>> yourself. Ask a sighted person to tell you what is in the machine, make
>> the
>> Braille labels with Dymo tape, and then stick them on yourself.
>>
>> We as students must start taking some of the accessibility into our own
>> hands. You can ask, you can beg, but if you get no results then do it
>> yourself. If you wan to change it, change it. And if someone says your not
>> suppose to do that, say I am blind, and I would like to know what is in
>> the
>> machine to drink.
>>
>> Two cents
>> Marsha
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 4:27 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>>
>> I think it should be illegal, for them not to put Braille labels where
>> they belong!
>> Doors, and vending machines, are two things, that need Braille labels,
>> so we can know what to do, and where we're going!
>> My main problem, is that they won't put Braille on the snack machines!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/12/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Yes, I've aked for a pepsi and a Mountain Dew popped out of the
>>> machine.  I think colleges are a bit finicky when it comes to
>>> braille on doors, let alone braille on vending achines.
>>> Beth
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 14:42:48 -0500
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>>>
>>> I started a similar thread, on another list, so I figured I'd
>>> take
>>> another poll, on this list.
>>> One time, I went to the vending machine, at school, and put in my
>>> change.
>>> Afterwards, I pushed the button, labeled "Dr Pepper," but when I
>>> pushed it, I got a Mountain Dew!
>>> Am I the only one, that this has happened to, on this list?
>>> I have a question about this very subject.
>>> At LWSB, they had Braille labels, on the coke machines, but why
>>> don't
>>> they require, that colleges do the same?
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>> se%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p
>> ccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmail.co
>> m
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature
>> database 6961 (20120312) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>> __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
>> signature
>> database 6961 (20120312) __________
>>
>> The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
>>
>> http://www.eset.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Mar 13 02:34:00 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 21:34:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Job posting for technology and Braille specialist
 Anchorage, Alaska
Message-ID: <auto-000051789547@mailfront4.g2host.com>


>
>POSITION VACANCY
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>ASSISTIVE TECHNOLOGY & BRAILLE INSTRUCTOR
>
>
>
>
>Location: Anchorage, Alaska
>Regular schedule averaging 30 – 40 hours per week; salary DOE
>
>The Alaska Center for the Blind and Visually 
>Impaired is looking for an Assistive Technology 
>and Braille Instructor to provide assessment and 
>instruction to residential and day clients in 
>the Center’s rehabilitation program in: the use 
>of computers, computer access technology, 
>electronic note takers, smart phones, and other 
>adaptive aids; and Braille reading and writing. 
>Primary focus will be on developing and 
>increasing client skills in the use of adaptive 
>technologies and Braille for efficient access of 
>information and for employment. For each client, 
>the Instructor may conduct an assessment of 
>skills, develop a service plan, maintain current 
>records of progress, coordinate services with 
>those provided by other staff, and complete 
>reports to include level of skill development 
>and recommendations for devices, equipment, 
>further training, and other services.
>In addition, the Instructor will keep the Center 
>on the cutting edge of assistive technology 
>devices and applications and provide training, 
>presentations, and technical consultation to service providers and others.
>Benefits provided
>Professional liability insurance. Annual leave 
>accrual to two weeks the first year. Two 
>personal days per year plus sick leave. Twelve 
>holidays, including the week between Christmas 
>and New Year’s. Option for pre-tax employee 
>403(b) retirement savings. For 40-hour per week 
>staff: health and dental coverage with Health Savings Account.
>
>Required Education and Work Experience
>Bachelor’s degree in vision rehabilitation, 
>assistive technology, or a related field. Proven 
>proficiency with assistive technology and 
>Braille as well as client services for people 
>with disabilities. A satisfactory report from a 
>criminal background check is required. 
>Preferred: Successful work experience as a 
>vision rehabilitation instructor in assistive 
>technology and Braille. Applicants with AT 
>expertise but no Braille are encouraged to apply.
>
>Working Conditions
>
>·    Work is conducted primarily in Center’s 
>facility in Anchorage and occasionally in the 
>homes of clients as well as locations in the 
>area to provide presentations on Assistive Technology.
>
>·    The work schedule is daily during the week 
>and may infrequently include evenings.
>
>·    Occasional travel may be required using a 
>personal vehicle or an alternate pre-approved 
>arrangement locally or commercial airline travel 
>outside the Anchorage-MatSu areas.
>
>Please send a cover letter and resume (email preferred) to:
>
>Karen Coady, Program 
>Manager      <mailto:info at AlaskaBVI.org>info at AlaskaBVI.org
>3903 Taft Drive, Anchorage, AK  99517
>
>The Alaska Center for the Blind and Visually 
>Impaired is an Equal Opportunity Employer
>
>
>

From ignasicambra at gmail.com  Tue Mar 13 04:37:18 2012
From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 00:37:18 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOsOwK706MW0FEWa-VGdv1Mv3=zdPn3CTimYw8npka-LUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO83KOvXw4vK=xFjjuyQwiQsmaMNqGc8psMM__0UpsPm3qKiYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6A5A2A0DAB52437FAEE0F5FFD6223FC4@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsOwK706MW0FEWa-VGdv1Mv3=zdPn3CTimYw8npka-LUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3154216517514588414@unknownmsgid>

They can't label them because sometimes the button assigned to each
product changes.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 12, 2012, at 4:26 PM, Joshua Lester
<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:

> Here's the wierd thing, at my college!
> They have shown me, which button, to push to get Dr Pepper, but the
> problem is that when I push that button, sometimes I get Mountain Dew.
> I won't know it, until I open it, because sometimes, I'm by myself,
> after class, especially when it's late at night.
> I haven't had the problem, since last semester, but I hate it, when it happens!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/12/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> What I have found helpful is to have someone in the hall help me with the
>> machine and then later I will remember what things I like to be able to come
>> back later to get a snack or soda. Just a thought!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 2:42 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>>
>>
>>> I started a similar thread, on another list, so I figured I'd take
>>> another poll, on this list.
>>> One time, I went to the vending machine, at school, and put in my change.
>>> Afterwards, I pushed the button, labeled "Dr Pepper," but when I
>>> pushed it, I got a Mountain Dew!
>>> Am I the only one, that this has happened to, on this list?
>>> I have a question about this very subject.
>>> At LWSB, they had Braille labels, on the coke machines, but why don't
>>> they require, that colleges do the same?
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com


From davidb521 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 13 11:03:19 2012
From: davidb521 at gmail.com (David Bouchard)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 06:03:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Chapters in Philadelphia and New York?
Message-ID: <022001cd0108$e7402800$b5c07800$@gmail.com>

Hello. I'm going to be visiting Philadelphia and New York City during my
Spring Break in order to look at universities in those two places to
transfer to. I was wondering when the chapters in those two cities meet,
because if I'm in the area, I thought I would attend one, schedule
permitting. Also, while I'm on the subject of Philly and New York, do any of
you go to school there? I'm looking at Temple University in Philly, and the
City Universities of New York system in Manhattan and Brooklyn. What are
your experiences living in those cities? How do you find the environment to
be, the transportation, (I'm thinking more of Philly and SEPTA when I ask
that particular question), etc.? In essence, what are your overall
impressions of these cities? I'm just trying to get an overall idea, and I
thought it would be a good idea to get some opinions from some of my fellow
Federationists. Thank you very much!

David Bouchard


From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 13 18:25:17 2012
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:25:17 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
In-Reply-To: <3154216517514588414@unknownmsgid>
References: <CAO83KOvXw4vK=xFjjuyQwiQsmaMNqGc8psMM__0UpsPm3qKiYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6A5A2A0DAB52437FAEE0F5FFD6223FC4@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsOwK706MW0FEWa-VGdv1Mv3=zdPn3CTimYw8npka-LUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<3154216517514588414@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CABORmNukJPtX0j74zb2GjY59Nikz83n5YBuRw57qujUwh5Hu_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Joshua and all,
First, I have had the problem you talk about, Joshua. It is well known
around our campus that sometimes if you press the button for
strawberry-melon, you'll get fruit punch. So I don't use that machine,
instead going to a snack machine that always has my strawberry-melon
in slots 45, 46, and 47, and use that one instead (Yes, our campus has
a lot more juices and the like available than many campuses).

Now on to the other part of this topic. My group, TACTICS, which is a
group for disability dadvocacy and education, is in the process of
getting Braille labels on the soda machines around campus. We were
told we need to go thru the vendor who fills them, since the machines
are their property. We haven't had much luck doing this and are very
close to just putting Braille labels on the machines and seeing what
happens. As for the snack machines, as others said, the snacks change,
so labelling or having a 'menu' is not possible. We simply ask for
assistance from sighted peers. Sometimes that ends in a good chat, so
it's not a bad thing *grin*

My two cents,
Jewel

On 3/13/12, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
> They can't label them because sometimes the button assigned to each
> product changes.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 12, 2012, at 4:26 PM, Joshua Lester
> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>
>> Here's the wierd thing, at my college!
>> They have shown me, which button, to push to get Dr Pepper, but the
>> problem is that when I push that button, sometimes I get Mountain Dew.
>> I won't know it, until I open it, because sometimes, I'm by myself,
>> after class, especially when it's late at night.
>> I haven't had the problem, since last semester, but I hate it, when it
>> happens!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/12/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> What I have found helpful is to have someone in the hall help me with the
>>> machine and then later I will remember what things I like to be able to
>>> come
>>> back later to get a snack or soda. Just a thought!
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 2:42 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>>>
>>>
>>>> I started a similar thread, on another list, so I figured I'd take
>>>> another poll, on this list.
>>>> One time, I went to the vending machine, at school, and put in my
>>>> change.
>>>> Afterwards, I pushed the button, labeled "Dr Pepper," but when I
>>>> pushed it, I got a Mountain Dew!
>>>> Am I the only one, that this has happened to, on this list?
>>>> I have a question about this very subject.
>>>> At LWSB, they had Braille labels, on the coke machines, but why don't
>>>> they require, that colleges do the same?
>>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue Mar 13 18:29:55 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 13:29:55 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
In-Reply-To: <CABORmNukJPtX0j74zb2GjY59Nikz83n5YBuRw57qujUwh5Hu_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO83KOvXw4vK=xFjjuyQwiQsmaMNqGc8psMM__0UpsPm3qKiYg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6A5A2A0DAB52437FAEE0F5FFD6223FC4@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsOwK706MW0FEWa-VGdv1Mv3=zdPn3CTimYw8npka-LUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<3154216517514588414@unknownmsgid>
	<CABORmNukJPtX0j74zb2GjY59Nikz83n5YBuRw57qujUwh5Hu_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvZEy8AHzW2MyPykDH8gmsRnxmWnm_PepOQm4p4Gc7pGA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for your help!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/13/12, Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Joshua and all,
> First, I have had the problem you talk about, Joshua. It is well known
> around our campus that sometimes if you press the button for
> strawberry-melon, you'll get fruit punch. So I don't use that machine,
> instead going to a snack machine that always has my strawberry-melon
> in slots 45, 46, and 47, and use that one instead (Yes, our campus has
> a lot more juices and the like available than many campuses).
>
> Now on to the other part of this topic. My group, TACTICS, which is a
> group for disability dadvocacy and education, is in the process of
> getting Braille labels on the soda machines around campus. We were
> told we need to go thru the vendor who fills them, since the machines
> are their property. We haven't had much luck doing this and are very
> close to just putting Braille labels on the machines and seeing what
> happens. As for the snack machines, as others said, the snacks change,
> so labelling or having a 'menu' is not possible. We simply ask for
> assistance from sighted peers. Sometimes that ends in a good chat, so
> it's not a bad thing *grin*
>
> My two cents,
> Jewel
>
> On 3/13/12, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
>> They can't label them because sometimes the button assigned to each
>> product changes.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 12, 2012, at 4:26 PM, Joshua Lester
>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Here's the wierd thing, at my college!
>>> They have shown me, which button, to push to get Dr Pepper, but the
>>> problem is that when I push that button, sometimes I get Mountain Dew.
>>> I won't know it, until I open it, because sometimes, I'm by myself,
>>> after class, especially when it's late at night.
>>> I haven't had the problem, since last semester, but I hate it, when it
>>> happens!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/12/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> What I have found helpful is to have someone in the hall help me with
>>>> the
>>>> machine and then later I will remember what things I like to be able to
>>>> come
>>>> back later to get a snack or soda. Just a thought!
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 2:42 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Am I the only one?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I started a similar thread, on another list, so I figured I'd take
>>>>> another poll, on this list.
>>>>> One time, I went to the vending machine, at school, and put in my
>>>>> change.
>>>>> Afterwards, I pushed the button, labeled "Dr Pepper," but when I
>>>>> pushed it, I got a Mountain Dew!
>>>>> Am I the only one, that this has happened to, on this list?
>>>>> I have a question about this very subject.
>>>>> At LWSB, they had Braille labels, on the coke machines, but why don't
>>>>> they require, that colleges do the same?
>>>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Tue Mar 13 19:19:56 2012
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 13:19:56 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] {Disarmed} FW: Apply to be a Fall 2012 White House Intern
In-Reply-To: <1331664751700.886433.47194071.bulletin.info@messages.whitehouse.gov>
References: <1331664751700.886433.47194071.bulletin.info@messages.whitehouse.gov>
Message-ID: <003a01cd014e$486e08a0$d94a19e0$@labarrelaw.com>

FYI 

 

 

From: White House Disability Group [mailto:info at messages.whitehouse.gov] 
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 12:53 PM
To: slabarre at labarrelaw.com
Subject: Apply to be a Fall 2012 White House Intern

 



 The White House <http://whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/header_daily_snapshot.gif> 

Tuesday, March 13, 2012



 

Apply to be a Fall 2012 White House Intern

If you received this email as a forward but would like to be added to the White House Disability Group email list, please visit our website at  <http://links.whitehouse.gov/track?type=click&enid=ZWFzPTEmbWFpbGluZ2lkPTIwMTIwMzEzLjYxNDUwNjEmbWVzc2FnZWlkPU1EQi1QUkQtQlVMLTIwMTIwMzEzLjYxNDUwNjEmZGF0YWJhc2VpZD0xMDAxJnNlcmlhbD0xNjg0MDAwMCZlbWFpbGlkPXNsYWJhcnJlQGxhYmFycmVsYXcuY29tJnVzZXJpZD1zbGFiYXJyZUBsYWJhcnJlbGF3LmNvbSZmbD0mZXh0cmE9TXVsdGl2YXJpYXRlSWQ9JiYm&&&100&&&http://www.whitehouse.gov/disability-issues-contact> http://www.whitehouse.gov/disability-issues-contact and fill out the "contact us" form in the disabilities section, or you can email us at  <mailto:disability at who.eop.gov> disability at who.eop.gov and provide your full name, city, state, and organization.

We are reaching out to remind you that the application for the Fall 2012 program is now open. If you or anyone else you know is interested in the program, we encourage you to forward this information and apply by April 1, 2012 at:  <http://links.whitehouse.gov/track?type=click&enid=ZWFzPTEmbWFpbGluZ2lkPTIwMTIwMzEzLjYxNDUwNjEmbWVzc2FnZWlkPU1EQi1QUkQtQlVMLTIwMTIwMzEzLjYxNDUwNjEmZGF0YWJhc2VpZD0xMDAxJnNlcmlhbD0xNjg0MDAwMCZlbWFpbGlkPXNsYWJhcnJlQGxhYmFycmVsYXcuY29tJnVzZXJpZD1zbGFiYXJyZUBsYWJhcnJlbGF3LmNvbSZmbD0mZXh0cmE9TXVsdGl2YXJpYXRlSWQ9JiYm&&&101&&&http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/internships/apply/application> http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/internships/apply/application 

White House Interns have the chance to work with government officials in offices such as the Office of the First Lady, the Office of the Chief of Staff, the Office of Public Engagement and Intergovernmental Affairs, the National Economic Council and the Domestic Policy Council. Assignments vary dependent on an intern’s office, but interns conduct research, attend meetings with officials, write memos and requests, participate in speaker series’ with senior staff members, engage in service projects, and staff and plan events. By dedicating their time, talents, energy and service, interns become part of the White House team and work to improve the community and the nation. 

For full details on the program, please visit  <http://links.whitehouse.gov/track?type=click&enid=ZWFzPTEmbWFpbGluZ2lkPTIwMTIwMzEzLjYxNDUwNjEmbWVzc2FnZWlkPU1EQi1QUkQtQlVMLTIwMTIwMzEzLjYxNDUwNjEmZGF0YWJhc2VpZD0xMDAxJnNlcmlhbD0xNjg0MDAwMCZlbWFpbGlkPXNsYWJhcnJlQGxhYmFycmVsYXcuY29tJnVzZXJpZD1zbGFiYXJyZUBsYWJhcnJlbGF3LmNvbSZmbD0mZXh0cmE9TXVsdGl2YXJpYXRlSWQ9JiYm&&&102&&&http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/internships> http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/internships. 
There you can find a detailed application process, a timeline with deadlines, and all the departments that participate in the program.  A complete application includes: short answers, two essay questions, a one-page resume, and two letters of recommendation. Again, the deadline to apply for Fall 2012 is April 1, 2012 so apply now and don’t miss out on this incredible opportunity.

Stay Connected 


  


  

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From JHartle at nfb.org  Tue Mar 13 21:35:36 2012
From: JHartle at nfb.org (Hartle, Jesse)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 14:35:36 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Legislative Alert - Senate Votes Down Portman Amendment
Message-ID: <8AFFB8D1E8D6904090DF5B33AABB802506F2B30127@VA3DIAXVS661.RED001.local>





Fellow Federationists:

Today the United States Senate allowed Senator Portman's Amendment 1742 to the surface transportation bill, S. 1813, to be considered on the floor.  Senator Portman's amendment sought to allow states to open commercial ventures on federal highways and interstates.  This policy would have dramatically impacted the livelihood of blind entrepreneurs in the Randolph-Sheppard program who operate vending facilities along the federal highways and interstates across our country.

I am pleased to tell you that, due to the advocacy of the National Federation of the Blind, Senator Portman's Amendment 1742 was voted down by a count of 86 to 12 by the United States Senate.  I appreciate the hard work that you put into protecting the interest of blind vendors.  I will continue to keep you posted on this issue, as this bill will soon be sent to the House of Representatives for consideration.

Jesse

Jesse Hartle
Government Programs Specialist
National Federation of the Blind
Phone:  (410) 659-9314, Ext. 2233
Email:  jhartle at nfb.org


From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Mar 13 23:31:05 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 18:31:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Seminars@Hadley Presents: Networking with Twitter Part 1
Message-ID: <auto-000052628457@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>
>Seminars at Hadley Presents: Networking with Twitter Part 1
>
>Date: Wednesday, March 14, 2012
>
>Time: 11:00 AM CDT, 16:00 GMT
>
>Twitter is an online social networking service 
>and is increasingly used as a business 
>promotional tool. Evidence of its growing 
>influence is the fact that Twitter is ranked as 
>one of the world’s 10 most-visited Web sites.
>
>Start-up businesses can benefit greatly from 
>using Twitter, since the Twitter platform allows 
>them to compete on equal terms with larger 
>businesses. Our presenter, Dennis E. Lembree, is 
>an accomplished web developer who has worked for 
>a variety of companies including PayPal, Google 
>and Walt Disney World. He is the author of Web 
>Axe, a podcast and blog focused on web 
>accessibility, and is also the author of the 
>award-winning, web-accessible Twitter 
>application Easy Chirp. In Part 1, Dennis will 
>present information on the basics and the tools 
>needed to get started with Twitter.
>
>Join Seminars at Hadley as Dennis provides a 
>practical guide to utilizing Twitter to support 
>your promotional and networking efforts. Larry 
>Muffett, a member of Hadley’s Seminars team, 
>will moderate. A question and answer period will 
>be included as part of the seminar.
>
>NOTE:Networking with Twitter Part 2 will be 
>presented on Wednesday, March 28, 2012 at 11:00 AM CDT, 16:00 GMT.
>
>Space in this seminar is limited. Please only 
>register if you know you are available to attend 
>so that others are not closed out. To register 
>for the seminar, follow this link: http://hadley.edu/SeminarDetails.asp?sid=125
>
>Did you receive this email as a forward? If you 
>are not already signed up to receive eConnect, 
>follow this link: http://hadley.edu/eNewsletter.asp
>
>
>
>
>
>This message was sent to Dandrews at visi.com from:
>The Hadley School for the Blind | 700 Elm St.  | Winnetka, IL 60093



From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Mar 13 23:47:01 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 18:47:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Job:  Principal Colorado School for the Blind,
 Colorado  Springs.
Message-ID: <auto-000052629747@mailfront3.g2host.com>


EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY
COLORADO SCHOOL for the DEAF and the BLIND
March 2012

PRINCIPAL, School for the Blind


Description: https://secure.neogov.com/images/AgencyImages/jobp



MISSION STATEMENT

The Colorado School for the Deaf and the Blind 
(CSDB) provides children and families statewide 
with comprehensive, specialized educational 
services in safe, nurturing environments.  We 
empower learners to become self-determined, 
independent contributing citizens within their communities.

The Colorado School for the Deaf and the Blind 
(CSDB), located in Colorado Springs at the foot 
of the beautiful Rocky Mountains, invites you to 
consider our employment 
opportunities.   Interested persons are invited 
to visit CSDB's website at 
 
<http://csdb.org/>http://csdb.org/, where the 
official job announcement for Principal, School 
for the Blind may be found in its entirety, 
including major duties/responsibilities, under 
Non-Classified employment.  Applications are 
requested by March 30, 2012 in anticipation that 
interviews will be conducted beginning in April; position is open until filled.

BROAD SCOPE OF POSITION
·         Provides leadership to and management 
of the education programs within the school, 
consistent with school policies and procedures;
·         Responsibility for making 
determinations related to all positions within 
the School for the Blind, including 
responsibility for hiring and performance evaluation;
·         Fiscal responsibility for the funds 
allocated to all programs under their direction; and,
·         Responsibility for staying abreast of 
current educational trends and developments in 
instruction, curriculum, assessment, technology 
and discipline as it relates to the education of 
K- 12th grade students with visual impairments in 
general, and to residential schools for the Blind in particular.

MINIMUM QUALIFICATIONS
·         Master's degree in Education or related 
field from an accredited college or university; 
Master’s degree in Education for the Visually Impaired preferred.
·         Must hold, be eligible for, or able to 
obtain within two years from hire, appropriate 
educator licensure in the State of Colorado 
endorsed as a Special Education Specialist: 
Visually Impaired or comparable endorsement.
·         Must hold, be eligible for, or able to 
obtain within two years from hire, appropriate 
educator licensure in the State of Colorado as a Professional Principal.
·         Five (5) years successful experience as 
a teacher, administrator or similar position 
(preferred in the field of Vision Education); 
three (3) years of administrative and/or supervisory experience preferred.
·         Ability to demonstrate competency in 
Braille by the end of the first instructional 
year as evidenced by possession of a CDE Certification of Braille Competency.

Terms of Employment:  The annual employment 
contract shall be based on the standard number of 
working days in the academic year (currently 210 
days, August to June), beginning with the 
2012-2013 school year.  The base salary shall be 
established commensurate with appropriate 
education and experience.  Annual Salary Range: 
$81,226 (minimum) to $92, 562 (maximum).  Excellent benefits.

Application Instructions:  Interested persons are 
invited to visit the CSDB website (Non-Classified 
Employment); follow the instructions to submit a 
complete on-line application (to include salary 
history and references), and to upload the 
following items to the on-line 
application:  formal letter of interest, current 
resume, recent letters of recommendation (with 
signature), copies of all transcripts, and a copy 
of current educator certification.  Contact information:

                                     Chelle Lutz, Human Resources Office
                                     Colorado 
School for the Deaf and the Blind / 
Website:  <http://csdb.org/>http://csdb.org/
                                     33 North 
Institute Street; Colorado Springs, CO  80903
E-mail:  <mailto:clutz at csdb.org>clutz at csdb.org; 
(719) 578-2114 (phone);  (719) 578-2239 (fax)

ALL INTERVIEWS WILL BE CONDUCTED ON-SITE AT
THE COLORADO SCHOOL FOR THE DEAF AND THE BLIND

CSDB is an EQUAL OPPORTUNITY EMPLOYER
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From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Mar 13 23:55:09 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 18:55:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Reminder - Training the Trainers
Message-ID: <auto-000051953759@mailfront4.g2host.com>


>
>
>
>Training the Trainers
>
>
>
>
>
>May 9-11
>Registration closes April 15, spaces are limited!
>
>
>
>
>Agenda
>
>
>
>
>
>
>(subject to change)
>Wednesday, May 9, 2012
>
>8:30-9:00 a.m. - Introductory Remarks - Mark 
>Riccobono, Director, Jernigan Institute, &  Dr. 
>Marc Maurer, President, National Federation of the Blind
>9:00-10:30 a.m. - Using the Duxbury Braille 
>Translator - Jennifer Dunnam, Manager of Braille 
>Programs, Jernigan Institute.  (An overview of 
>how to create well-formatted Braille from many 
>different file formats, including HTML, Word, PDF, and scanned documents)
>10:30-10:50 a.m. - Break
>10:50 a.m.-12:30 p.m. - The State of Screen 
>Access Software - Josh Boudreaux,  Director of 
>Technology, Louisiana Center for the Blind, & 
>Anne Taylor, Director of Access Technology, 
>Jernigan Institute. (Will discuss major screen 
>access packages and the features each one offers 
>-- including how much support each provides for 
>popular productivity tools like Google Docs and  Microsoft Office)
>12:30-1:30 p.m. – Lunch
>1:30-3:30 p.m.  - An Overview of Tactile 
>Graphics: How to Create the Right Graphic for 
>the Task - Clara Van Gerven, Access Technology 
>Content Specialist, Jernigan Institute & Robert 
>Jaquiss, Access Technology Specialist, Jernigan Institute
>3:30-3:50 p.m. - Break
>3:50-5:00 p.m. - Low Vision Tools - Clara Van Gerven
>Thursday, May 10, 2012
>
>8:30-10:00 a.m. – Notetakers - Amy Mason, Access 
>Technology Specialist, Jernigan Institute, & Anne Taylor
>10:00-10:20 a.m. – Break
>10:20 a.m.-12:00 p.m. - iOS devices and 
>Accessible Peripherals - Amy Mason & Anne Taylor
>12:00-1:00 p.m. – Lunch
>1:00-3:00 p.m. – An Introduction to VoiceOver on 
>the Mac - Earl Harrison, President, HandyTech North America
>3:00-3:30 p.m. – Break
>3:30-4:15 p.m. - OCR options - Amy Mason & Anne Taylor
>4:15-5:00 p.m. – Daisy Creation Software- Making 
>Electronic Text More Navigable - Varju Luceno, 
>Director of Communications, DAISY Consortium
>Friday, May 11, 2012
>
>8:00-10:00  a.m. - Low-Cost Screen Readers - 
>Access Technology Team, Jernigan Institute (This 
>session offers an overview of the low-cost 
>solutions available now, what opportunities they 
>provide, and where they fall short of more 
>traditional “full-featured” screen access solutions.)
>10:00-10:20 a.m. - Break
>10:20-11:50 a.m. – Training Techniques: A 
>Discussion of Best Practices - Amy Mason (An 
>opportunity to engage in discussion with 
>colleagues at the event concerning a number of 
>topics pertinent to trainers -- including the 
>place of the Structured Discovery philosophy in 
>technology training, further discussion of what 
>students should be expected to master in a 
>technology training venue, and some unorthodox 
>training aids and ideas for consideration)
>11:50 a.m. – Closing Remarks – Anne Taylor
>
>Clara Van Gerven
>Access Technology Content Specialist
>National Federation of the Blind
>200 East Wells Street
>        at Jernigan Place
>Baltimore, MD  21230
>410-659-9314 x-2410
><mailto:cvangerven at nfb.org>cvangerven at nfb.org
><http://nfb.org/nfb/access_technology_blog.asp>The Access Technology Blog
>

From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed Mar 14 01:27:42 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:27:42 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Slightly OT: Strange Email
Message-ID: <4f5ff411.0c60e00a.164f.ffff9eb4@mx.google.com>

There was a Robin on this list, but I'm not sure if she still is.  
I don't think it's the same person though, because the Robin from 
this list never wrote anything to the list in broken English.  I 
would suggest that you just delete and don't respond.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 11:13:22 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Slightly OT: Strange Email

"Robin?"

----- Original Message -----
From: "Aubrie Lucas" <aubielynn at gmail.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Slightly OT: Strange Email


 Who was it from?

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
 Behalf
 Of Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
 Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 7:56 PM
 To: NABS-L
 Subject: [nabs-l] Slightly OT: Strange Email

 I just now received an email asking me my grade level and if I 
am totally
 blind.  It was written in broken English.  Has anyone else 
received any such
 email?

 Nicole
 _______________________________________________
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m%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed Mar 14 01:27:44 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:27:44 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] fw: Brailliant Braille display now supported by iOS 5.1
Message-ID: <4f5ff413.0c60e00a.164f.ffff9eb5@mx.google.com>

Hi Gloria,

The Brailliant is from Humanware, and you can find the user guide 
on the Humanware Web site, I believe.  However, I don't use a 
Brailliant, but got this email from Humanware because I'm a 
BrailleNote user and get their emails.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gloria G" <gloria.graves at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 08:23:32 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] fw: Brailliant Braille display now 
supported by iOS 5.1

Hi
Is this product from human wear or american printing house for 
the blind? Do
you know where I can get a user guide for this product and has 
anyone used
one and can tell some of the draw backs to using this device?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: "NFB NABS list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; "NFB Blind Talk list"
<blindtlk at nfbnet.org>; "ACB list" <acb-l at acb.org
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 10:35 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] fw: Brailliant Braille display now supported by 
iOS 5.1


 FYI:

 ---- Original Message ------
 From: HumanWare <marcom at humanware.com
 Subject: HumanWare Brailliant Braille Display now supported with 
iOS 5.1
 Date sent: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 21:51:58 -0500

 A Winning Combination

 Apple just announced a new iOS version for their line of 
iDevices.  This
 new iOS version brings new excitement and new features, along 
with new
 support for HumanWare's Brailliant braille displays.  After 
updating
 your iDevice to version 5.1, wirelessly connect your iDevice to 
a
 HumanWare Brailliant display and take advantage of the sleek 
design, high
 quality braille cells, and ergonomic keyboard and thumb keys 
that have
 been adored by BrailleNote Apex users.  Whether you are using a 
new
 Brailliant braille display, or a BrailleNote Apex, control your
 iDevice with the braille input keys, read messages, emails, or 
iBooks,
 and type responses or documents in contracted or uncontracted
 braille, all without the touch screen of the iDevice.

 Brailliant braille displays come in 32, 40, or 80 cell models.

 For more information about the new HumanWare Brailliant display, 
please
 visit:

 www.humanware.c
 om/en-usa/produ
 cts/blindness/b
 raille_displays

 or contact your local HumanWare representative.

 U.S.
 Tel: 800.722.3393
 Canada
 Tel: 888.723.7273

 Unsubscribe
 
http://visit.humanware.com/unsubscribe/u/3332/d45ff76efa2b26dd4a8
 021f4cc94cbe8/385852708 from our newsletter.



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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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 nabs-l:
 
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From arielle71 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 14 02:31:45 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 20:31:45 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
In-Reply-To: <FC956D1C4C9A4F39A27EC39880E2A846@stanford.edu>
References: <4f5d40b7.c2b8340a.7ee8.5bb5@mx.google.com>
	<0A80872D4CA0475F9A7D92F3EA525FF0@OwnerPC>
	<D72572FB56A44F39ADC3340D51CC4CA4@stanford.edu>
	<8A1FC010EDAD46C8A70756614D99253F@OwnerPC>
	<FC956D1C4C9A4F39A27EC39880E2A846@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDrZXv2ydztjQKLBtJirC25K82c3bPRALrH+67LLCgK0g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
Tactile graphics don't go away in college but you do get the
opportunity in college to decide whether or not to use them. I was a
bio major in college and most people would agree that biology is a
relatively graphical field, at least the way it's taught to sighted
students. I was provided with tactile diagrams but I rarely, if ever,
used them-and I did fine in my classes and understood all the key
concepts. I found them to be superfluous because I found other ways to
understand the material that made more sense to me than looking at a
two-dimensional image of a three-dimensional object. For example I
memorized verbal descriptions of where all the cell organelles were
located or learned to understand genetics as a series of probability
equations. Visual/spatial is just one way of mentally organizing
information and that way happens to work best for many sighted
students and some blind students, but for some of us there are other
ways that are more efficient. It is important for blind students to
try different ways of representing knowledge so they can learn which
way works best for them. For that matter, there are probably some
sighted students who find pictures less helpful than verbal or
mathematical representations, but they use the graphs because that's
how the majority of teachers choose to convey the material. Tactile
diagrams are OK for many purposes but they don't always capture all
the detail contained in printed diagrams. So for some of us verbal or
mathematical representations are more helpful than graphical ones.
I do think that students just beginning a subject should be exposed to
a diagram of some sort-even a rough sketch-to get a general idea of
the concept. For example an algebra student should see a diagram of an
XY plot to understand what an upward slope vs. a downward slope vs. a
parabola looks like. After getting the basic idea, though, you may
find you are able to conjure up a rough image in your head, meaning
you no longer have to depend on diagrams of every single problem to
get the right answer. You'll also find that as you get to higher
levels in math and science, understanding computations or steps of a
process is more important than understanding what the process "looks
like". For example, as a biology student I was not required to know
all the details of what cells, single-celled organisms or plants
looked like. I did, however, have to learn all the details of how
cells divided or how single-celled organisms fed and reproduced,
concepts which really aren't visual at all.
Best,
Arielle

On 3/12/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> I think that it is from National Braille Press. You could probably find it
> by googling Touch the Stars. I know that whoever makes the series is no
> longer making the first book, but they should still be making the second
> book, which is better anyway.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 6:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
>
>> Nicole,
>> Where do you get touch the stars?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 10:37 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> I would definitely recommend trying to get a copy of Touch the Stars II.
>> It's tactile diagrams will be easier to understand both because they are
>> explained well and because they were made knowing that they were for the
>> blind.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 7:25 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>>
>>> Chris,
>>> Geometry and astronomy are interesting. Geometry has some real world
>>> problem solving applications.
>>> I didn't like it but somehow got through it. I'm not an abstract thinker.
>>> I remember how you compare shapes and figure out the missing angle number
>>>
>>> and things like that. The problem solving and critical thinking skills
>>> carry over to other subjects though.
>>>
>>> For astronomy, well I did not take that in high school; Virginia doesn't
>>> require that; we take different sciences.
>>>
>>> But I suggest getting tactile diagrams of the stars and galaxies. I think
>>>
>>> NASA or National braille press has some books. One is called Touch the
>>> stars.
>>> I think if your vi teacher explains diagrams and what the lines represent
>>>
>>> and labels them, it will make more sense.
>>> Some concepts though are better illustrated in a 3 d thing; so you could
>>> make a model for those situations.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:17 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>
>>> Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of
>>> tactile graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them!
>>> I really don't like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if
>>> possible.  But we're doing geometry in math and astronomy in
>>> science, both of which are very visual units which require a lot
>>> of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a break from the
>>> constant
>>> diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready
>>> for our state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment
>>> (MSA.)
>>>
>>> Chris
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>> nuisance."
>>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>
>>> Hi Vejas,
>>> I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much
>>> out
>>> of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
>>> diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.
>>> But if
>>> you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if
>>> you
>>> can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my
>>> experience
>>> that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.)
>>> is
>>> not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you
>>> are
>>> learning about.
>>> You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is
>>> any
>>> free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the
>>> only
>>> student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your
>>> school
>>> has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
>>> available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your
>>> parents are
>>> willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when
>>> I was
>>> in high school.
>>> A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how
>>> to
>>> best explain the ideas to you.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams
>>> have
>>> lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a
>>> lot,
>>> so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
>>> stands for.
>>> But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention
>>> to
>>> the diagrams.
>>> Vejas
>>>
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>
>>> Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
>>> cluttered, then
>>> it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
>>> help you?
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>
>>>
>>>  Hi,
>>>  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
>>> My
>>>  teacher is OK, I guess.
>>>  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
>>> me, so I
>>>  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
>>> helped.
>>>  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers
>>> loves
>>> the way
>>>  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was
>>> a
>>> sighter
>>>  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
>>> stuff you
>>>  need? I have a test tomorrow.
>>>  Thanks for any input.
>>>  Vejas
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>>  nabs-l:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
>>> wavecable.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40g
>>> mail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>> mail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>>> m%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From amylsabo at comcast.net  Wed Mar 14 03:34:02 2012
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2012 21:34:02 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Flowers Won't Be The Only Thing In Bloom This Season,
	So Will Audio Access FM
In-Reply-To: <76689247237A408CA38167847E112385@pc2011>
References: <76689247237A408CA38167847E112385@pc2011>
Message-ID: <00d601cd0193$4e634000$eb29c000$@comcast.net>

Hello David,

Thanks as always for sending out this announcement. Sorry, for the late
response to your message. I was sick again as usual and, I missed last
night's show.

As to the springing of audio access fm this is exciting and, I look forward
to it's transition as well too!

Thanks again and, I will talk to you soon.




Hugs,
amy

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of David Dunphy
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 10:22 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Flowers Won't Be The Only Thing In Bloom This Season, So
Will Audio Access FM

Hi Everyone!
Spring time is close at hand. Flowers will start to bloom. Those April
showers will bring May Flowers, and May Flowers will bring pilgrims. But I
digress.
However this year, flowers won't be the only thing growing and sprouting in
the spring. The same can be said for Audio Access FM.
Beginning tonight, and most nights over the next few weeks, watch as Audio
Access FM also begins to grow and become a thing of beauty like the green
green grass of home.
Our new dj application, our fast moving tech team for processing
applications and answering questions, our new and improved talking schedule
and more are just some of the things that will make Audio Access FM grow
into something special and wonderful and more unique than most other online
radio stations you'll come across.
So as we spring ahead like the clocks did this weekend, watch as Audio
Access FM does some blooming and growing of its own, starting tonight on
tonight's Djd Invasion. Details about this evening's show follow:
The show begins tonight at 8 PM eastern on Audio Access FM and ACB Radio
Interactive!
We've got all upbeat music to keep you moving in your chair, and maybe some
songs to remind you of the warmth of the up coming summer season in a few
months!
The promised new Carrie Underwood song from last week that we didn't get to
play will be heard tonight.
And since St Patrick's Day is around the corner, we'll be doing an Irish set
too.
All of this, plus your requests by email at thedjdinvasion at audioaccessfm.com
Via...Well. There will be another way to communicate with me tonight, but
that's a surprise you'll have to check out when you tune in...

I can also be reached via skype at
audio.accessfm
or via telephone by dialing
516 324 2314
or give me a mention on twitter, the twitter name is djdrocks

And to listen to tonight's show, visit
http://www.audioaccessfm.com/listen_live.php
between 8 and 10PM eastern.
So between upbeat music, a set of irish tunes, a surprise announcement and
more, we've got a jam packed two hours tonight. And I hope you'll join me.
See you then!
>From DJd, host of The Djd Invasion On Audio Access FM
http://www.audioaccessfm.com and ACB Radio Interactive
http://interactive.acbradio.org
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net




From jandart2 at aol.com  Wed Mar 14 12:55:42 2012
From: jandart2 at aol.com (JanIce DeHart)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 07:55:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Stata
In-Reply-To: <33971535-2E9C-47F3-99AE-99AB823E5AB9@sbcglobal.net>
References: <33971535-2E9C-47F3-99AE-99AB823E5AB9@sbcglobal.net>
Message-ID: <74473D4D-DE77-4B62-9A30-066D64CB1463@aol.com>

> 
> Anyone willing to share their experience with Stata?
Thanks,
Jan DeHart

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 14 16:16:19 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 12:16:19 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Stata
In-Reply-To: <74473D4D-DE77-4B62-9A30-066D64CB1463@aol.com>
References: <33971535-2E9C-47F3-99AE-99AB823E5AB9@sbcglobal.net>
	<74473D4D-DE77-4B62-9A30-066D64CB1463@aol.com>
Message-ID: <0B981EF426084582B8B0D4ECC56FDDF4@OwnerPC>

Is this a software? is it accessible?

-----Original Message----- 
From: JanIce DeHart
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 8:55 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Stata

>
> Anyone willing to share their experience with Stata?
Thanks,
Jan DeHart
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Wed Mar 14 16:22:26 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 11:22:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Stata
In-Reply-To: <0B981EF426084582B8B0D4ECC56FDDF4@OwnerPC>
References: <33971535-2E9C-47F3-99AE-99AB823E5AB9@sbcglobal.net>
	<74473D4D-DE77-4B62-9A30-066D64CB1463@aol.com>
	<0B981EF426084582B8B0D4ECC56FDDF4@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOuYwUWvnqFJE_33Ow3NOA6=i+YNvU9gGp14MMVi5Ou=BA@mail.gmail.com>

I've never heard of it either!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Is this a software? is it accessible?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: JanIce DeHart
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 8:55 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Stata
>
>>
>> Anyone willing to share their experience with Stata?
> Thanks,
> Jan DeHart
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com  Wed Mar 14 17:19:20 2012
From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 13:19:20 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Chapters in Philadelphia and New York?
In-Reply-To: <022001cd0108$e7402800$b5c07800$@gmail.com>
References: <022001cd0108$e7402800$b5c07800$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN+-G_A2nB5boCOyBdk7tc5D51p-w0hXXVOGCbxQdPYYJ5WUMg@mail.gmail.com>

David,
Yes, there is a Philly chapter. I don't know when they meet. As for
SEPTA/transportation, it's really accessible in Philly. Buses and
trains run fairly regularly, but it's really easy to just walk
someplace. Hope this helps.
Patrick

On 3/13/12, David Bouchard <davidb521 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello. I'm going to be visiting Philadelphia and New York City during my
> Spring Break in order to look at universities in those two places to
> transfer to. I was wondering when the chapters in those two cities meet,
> because if I'm in the area, I thought I would attend one, schedule
> permitting. Also, while I'm on the subject of Philly and New York, do any of
> you go to school there? I'm looking at Temple University in Philly, and the
> City Universities of New York system in Manhattan and Brooklyn. What are
> your experiences living in those cities? How do you find the environment to
> be, the transportation, (I'm thinking more of Philly and SEPTA when I ask
> that particular question), etc.? In essence, what are your overall
> impressions of these cities? I'm just trying to get an overall idea, and I
> thought it would be a good idea to get some opinions from some of my fellow
> Federationists. Thank you very much!
>
> David Bouchard
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed Mar 14 17:39:37 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 13:39:37 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] creating diagrams
Message-ID: <86295EFD75F645C69D0E4DEDEDDDB848@OwnerPC>

Hi all,

Well, as many of you said, I have mixed feelings about diagrams. I think they are one tool to help us learn.
I’m taking a I T class and learning the telecommunications cycles we discuss is visually presented. My plan is to learn both verbally and with a diagram. Fortunately, my professor will take the time after class to describe the concept and/or diagram. Not all are so willing in my experience.

I’m a regular visit in her office hours. That said, I wanted more ideas.

I can see a little so we can use a combo of tactile stuff and visual stuff. If you have vision, what contrasting markers worked? I was thinking of Mr. Sketch. Someone suggested sharpies on another list, but IMO they are not a good pick because they are permanent and smell strong. If they accidently get a mark on a table or clothes, they will not wash out. 

What material can we use that is thin and flexible? Some of this concepts shows how waves go to modems or satelites.
Anyone used graphic art tape? How about plastic material from craft stores? Its usually  used for weaving or jewelry; not sure its name.

Finally, what type of paper do you make the diagram on? It occurred to me that standard white 8 1/2 x 11 paper may not be 
the best as its flimsy and may not be large enough.

Thanks.

Ashley

From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Wed Mar 14 17:50:30 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 12:50:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] creating diagrams
In-Reply-To: <86295EFD75F645C69D0E4DEDEDDDB848@OwnerPC>
References: <86295EFD75F645C69D0E4DEDEDDDB848@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOsdZi2Kz2L=1b9ZU=rz-rV6pAxAHNPAqUv=fWk5BRcfiA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Ashley!
I'll E-mail you offlist.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Well, as many of you said, I have mixed feelings about diagrams. I think
> they are one tool to help us learn.
> I’m taking a I T class and learning the telecommunications cycles we discuss
> is visually presented. My plan is to learn both verbally and with a diagram.
> Fortunately, my professor will take the time after class to describe the
> concept and/or diagram. Not all are so willing in my experience.
>
> I’m a regular visit in her office hours. That said, I wanted more ideas.
>
> I can see a little so we can use a combo of tactile stuff and visual stuff.
> If you have vision, what contrasting markers worked? I was thinking of Mr.
> Sketch. Someone suggested sharpies on another list, but IMO they are not a
> good pick because they are permanent and smell strong. If they accidently
> get a mark on a table or clothes, they will not wash out.
>
> What material can we use that is thin and flexible? Some of this concepts
> shows how waves go to modems or satelites.
> Anyone used graphic art tape? How about plastic material from craft stores?
> Its usually  used for weaving or jewelry; not sure its name.
>
> Finally, what type of paper do you make the diagram on? It occurred to me
> that standard white 8 1/2 x 11 paper may not be
> the best as its flimsy and may not be large enough.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From jandart2 at aol.com  Wed Mar 14 21:22:00 2012
From: jandart2 at aol.com (jandart2 at aol.com)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 17:22:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [nabs-l] Stata
In-Reply-To: <0B981EF426084582B8B0D4ECC56FDDF4@OwnerPC>
References: <33971535-2E9C-47F3-99AE-99AB823E5AB9@sbcglobal.net><74473D4D-DE77-4B62-9A30-066D64CB1463@aol.com>
	<0B981EF426084582B8B0D4ECC56FDDF4@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <8CED03FA0E261A6-8D0-1F7F6@webmail-m047.sysops.aol.com>


Stata is data analysis and statistical software and it has some problems with accessibility; just wanted to know if anyone has had success using it.
Thanks,
Jan



-----Original Message-----
From: Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:19 am
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Stata


Is this a software? is it accessible?
-----Original Message----- 
rom: JanIce DeHart
ent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 8:55 AM
o: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
ubject: [nabs-l] Stata
>
 Anyone willing to share their experience with Stata?
hanks,
an DeHart
______________________________________________
abs-l mailing list
abs-l at nfbnet.org
ttp://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
o unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
abs-l:
ttp://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 

______________________________________________
abs-l mailing list
abs-l at nfbnet.org
ttp://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
o unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
ttp://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jandart2%40aol.com


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Wed Mar 14 21:25:01 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 16:25:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Stata
In-Reply-To: <8CED03FA0E261A6-8D0-1F7F6@webmail-m047.sysops.aol.com>
References: <33971535-2E9C-47F3-99AE-99AB823E5AB9@sbcglobal.net>
	<74473D4D-DE77-4B62-9A30-066D64CB1463@aol.com>
	<0B981EF426084582B8B0D4ECC56FDDF4@OwnerPC>
	<8CED03FA0E261A6-8D0-1F7F6@webmail-m047.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtgRKw6ruKBZNDSO9C+-+BnukWOznYM2thL6x67dfy2eA@mail.gmail.com>

I've never heard of it.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/14/12, jandart2 at aol.com <jandart2 at aol.com> wrote:
>
> Stata is data analysis and statistical software and it has some problems
> with accessibility; just wanted to know if anyone has had success using it.
> Thanks,
> Jan
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wed, Mar 14, 2012 11:19 am
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Stata
>
>
> Is this a software? is it accessible?
> -----Original Message-----
> rom: JanIce DeHart
> ent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 8:55 AM
> o: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> ubject: [nabs-l] Stata
>>
>  Anyone willing to share their experience with Stata?
> hanks,
> an DeHart
> ______________________________________________
> abs-l mailing list
> abs-l at nfbnet.org
> ttp://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> o unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> abs-l:
> ttp://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> ______________________________________________
> abs-l mailing list
> abs-l at nfbnet.org
> ttp://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> o unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> ttp://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jandart2%40aol.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From dandrews at visi.com  Thu Mar 15 00:36:05 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 19:36:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Would you share this link with NFB listservs?
Message-ID: <auto-000052123880@mailfront4.g2host.com>


>
>Hello Mr. Andrews:
>Would you share this link with the NFB listservs? I already shared 
>it as an OT post with the blindlaw listserv, but am not a member of 
>many other NFB lists and, even if I were, didn't know if it would be 
>appropriate to broadcast it that broadly. It's an accessible NCAA 
>tournament bracket developed by Terrell Thompson, a former colleague 
>and devoted IT accessibility specialist at the University of 
>Washington. I think it is primarily designed with visual impairments 
>in mind, but it has some features that are helpful for people with 
>mobility impairments as well. Feel free to share the link with any 
>listservs or anyone else you think might be interested. Here's the link:
>
><http://terrillthompson.com/ncaa/>Accessible NCAA Tournament Bracket
>(http://terrillthompson.com/ncaa/)
>
>Thank you. Enjoy!
>
>
>
>Will Miller
>
>Attorney at Law
>
>William T. Miller, P.A.
>
>P.O. Box 7
>
>Kernersville, NC 27285
>
>(336) 497-5160 (phone)
>
>(336) 497-5161 (fax)
>
>william_t_miller at hotmail.com
>

From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Mar 15 01:33:36 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 21:33:36 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom
Message-ID: <4f6146f3.06c7e00a.3954.3b64@mx.google.com>

Exactly, Ignasi! I completely agree! By the way, I am in the 
mentoring program which BISM has started.  I've been talking with 
my mentor about this, and he brought up a good point; you could 
learn some moves, but it's not like everybody's dancing a certain 
dance, or, for that matter, danceing the "right" or "proper" way.  
They're just having fun, and so can we!

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 00:50:42 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom

I completely agree.  As long as you have some good friends around 
these
things are just fine.  If you really want to you can learn some 
dance
moves, but you don't even have to do that.  The whole point of a 
prom
is to have fun with your friends, and doing that should be no 
problem
for you, blind or not.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 10, 2012, at 10:33 PM, Julie McGinnity 
<kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:

 Hi everyone.

 I attended Home Coming almost every year as well as my senior 
prom
 when i was in high school.  I have to admit, I didn't like the 
crowds,
 and the music wasn't really my taste, but I loved being able to 
hang
 out with my friends before and during the dance.  I always went 
with a
 big group, and we had a kind of pact that we would not leave 
each
 other, so we all took care to know where the others were.  They 
took
 turns sighted guiding since the cane would only trip others on 
the
 dance floor, and I never took my dog to dances once I got her.  
I
 would recommend discussing with your date and possibly a couple
 friends before hand to make sure they understand how to guide 
you in a
 big crowd.  Personally, I found dances extremely disorienting 
because
 I am low vision, and the lighting is terrible, the crowd 
enormous, and
 the noise level is...  too much.

 Also, food is served at a lot of proms.  At ours there is a 
buffet,
 and my friends were able to help me through with no problem.  I
 recommend figuring out what will be happening with regards to 
food
 ahead of time.  A little note about prom food...  It's not the 
best,
 so if they are serving food, depending on your tastes, going out 
for a
 snack afterwords would not be a bad idea.

 I was always embarrassed to dance at the prom, but my friends 
always
 told me not to worry.  Just get out there, and have fun.  Have 
your
 date and/or your friends show you some dances and help you 
through,
 and you'll have a great time.  Good luck.

 On 3/10/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
 well, you cannot exactly take your cane on the dance floor.  So 
go sighted
 guide with your date or friend.  Then just follow their lead if 
you are a
 girl.  If you are the guy, you have to learn to lead.  Also free 
form dance is
 just a mix of moves like moving to the left, right forward and 
raising your
 hands up.
 Someone could show you some typical dances beforehand; like YMCA 
has a few
 hand moves; so does Macarena.  But lots of this is free form and 
hip hop
 dance with no particular move.
 But yep, Chris, its hard to go to a big crowded dance being low 
vision or
 blind.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Chris Nusbaum
 Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:53 PM
 To: Blind Talk Mailing List ; nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] prom

 Great question, Winona! In fact, I had the same question; how do
 we as blind people handle school dances as independently as we
 can? I look forward to hearing everybody's responses!

 Chris

 Chris Nusbaum
 Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
 dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
 Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

 "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
 real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
 exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
 opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
 nuisance."
 -- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Winona <trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com
 To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org, blindtlk at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 00:03:32 -0500
 Subject: [Blindtlk] prom

 Hi everyone,

 I don't really where to begin or really, how to ask my question.
 So, my friend is taking me to Prom.  He isn't blind but that
 doesn't matter at all.  I'm really excited and looking forward 
to
 it.  But I don't really know what to expect.  I know you dance
 and hang out with friends (which most of I probably won't know),
 and have a good time.  But I don't know how to dance. ...  So, I
 guess my question is what should I expect? ...  I don't know.  I
 don't go to school dances and I've never been to a prom before.

 Winona

 trumpetqueenwb at gmail.com

 "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it.  For
 every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it.  For every 
love
 there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
 -Ivan Panin

 "Success is peace of mind which is the direct result of
 self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the 
best
 you are capable of becoming." - John Wooden

 _______________________________________________
 blindtlk mailing list
 blindtlk at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
 for blindtlk:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
 aum%40gmail.com

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
0earthlink.net


 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40g
mail.com



 --
 Julie McG
 Lindbergh High School class of 2009, participating member in 
Opera
 Theater's Artist in Training Program, and proud graduate of 
Guiding
 Eyes for the Blind

 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
 everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
 life."
 John 3:16

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%
40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com


From jty727 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 15 01:52:47 2012
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 21:52:47 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <3BFE0E50CAFB49A7BF23F4D51E095A94@Gloria>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJOM=2EB5vjkEg0SLojdiJYOT+VzFf5kCJ-peAafqNVm+AeMQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJAsw879Pi3Y0KMUaK1Ti5NtMtO4nnUGVqep=Zyg8cEYGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<3BFE0E50CAFB49A7BF23F4D51E095A94@Gloria>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s7GsDJjmTGQGZxKAj28bYjwhW4mCUf27aHn8YjqVPmxRw@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Again,

So, I have a question.  Now, if I were to buy a phone off line along
with accessible technology to goe with it how could I get the phone
service?  Would I just bring the phone to whoever provides the service
and they hook it up?  I am looking into the Nokia n82 & possibly AT&T,
but before I actually did it I wanted to ask again since I don't know.

Thanks as always for all your help with my many questions=)

On 3/12/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I just wanted to let you guys know if you haven't already heard there is a
> refreshable braille display tha tyou can purchase and get info about from
> the American Printing House for the blind (APH) that will work with all
> apple products like the I-phone and I-pad. It is about eight hundred dollars
> but is very helpful from what I have seen.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:01 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>
>
>>I forget if I mentioned this earlier, but Mike Hingson sells the KNFB
>> Reader Mobile and he might still be able to sell you a Nokia phone
>> with Talks or MobileSpeak but without the KNFB Reader software. If you
>> google Michael Hingson he has a company webpage with contact info.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 3/9/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> if anyone needs help with iOS, let me know. Love my iTouch and iPhone, :)
>>>
>>> On 3/6/12, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>>>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>>>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>>>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>>>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>>>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>>>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>>>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>>>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>>>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>>>> Katie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>>>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not
>>>>>> sure
>>>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible calender
>>>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent via gmail.com
>>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>> Skype: joshgregory93
>>>  twitter: JoshG93
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From will.lindsay1 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 15 02:34:35 2012
From: will.lindsay1 at gmail.com (will lindsay)
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2012 22:34:35 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <CA+3U9s7GsDJjmTGQGZxKAj28bYjwhW4mCUf27aHn8YjqVPmxRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJOM=2EB5vjkEg0SLojdiJYOT+VzFf5kCJ-peAafqNVm+AeMQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJAsw879Pi3Y0KMUaK1Ti5NtMtO4nnUGVqep=Zyg8cEYGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<3BFE0E50CAFB49A7BF23F4D51E095A94@Gloria>
	<CA+3U9s7GsDJjmTGQGZxKAj28bYjwhW4mCUf27aHn8YjqVPmxRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABne5bHPWRW0taRA0i_mC4x1wX9x46HeMtFyRa7RGu-EhbPYBg@mail.gmail.com>

the verizon haven is great and you will just need to have someone turn
on the accessibility.  Of course the I phone would be great however I
am still selling my Brand NEW KNFB mobile reader.  Please contact me
directly regarding the KNFB mobile reader as I don't want to thumb
many emails to respond to someone.  My name is Lindsay and I can
reached at 443.415.9828

On 3/14/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Again,
>
> So, I have a question.  Now, if I were to buy a phone off line along
> with accessible technology to goe with it how could I get the phone
> service?  Would I just bring the phone to whoever provides the service
> and they hook it up?  I am looking into the Nokia n82 & possibly AT&T,
> but before I actually did it I wanted to ask again since I don't know.
>
> Thanks as always for all your help with my many questions=)
>
> On 3/12/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I just wanted to let you guys know if you haven't already heard there is a
>> refreshable braille display tha tyou can purchase and get info about from
>> the American Printing House for the blind (APH) that will work with all
>> apple products like the I-phone and I-pad. It is about eight hundred
>> dollars
>> but is very helpful from what I have seen.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:01 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>
>>
>>>I forget if I mentioned this earlier, but Mike Hingson sells the KNFB
>>> Reader Mobile and he might still be able to sell you a Nokia phone
>>> with Talks or MobileSpeak but without the KNFB Reader software. If you
>>> google Michael Hingson he has a company webpage with contact info.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 3/9/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> if anyone needs help with iOS, let me know. Love my iTouch and iPhone,
>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>> On 3/6/12, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>>>>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>>>>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>>>>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>>>>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>>>>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>>>>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>>>>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>>>>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>>>>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>>>>> Katie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>>>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>>>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>>>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious of
>>>>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not
>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my phone.
>>>>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible
>>>>>>> calender
>>>>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is non-touch
>>>>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sent via gmail.com
>>>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>> Skype: joshgregory93
>>>>  twitter: JoshG93
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/will.lindsay1%40gmail.com
>


-- 
"...given proper training and opportunity, the average blind person
can do the average job in the average place of business and do it as
well as his or her sighted neighbor..." Freedom for the Blind, James
H. Omvig


From liziswhatis at hotmail.com  Thu Mar 15 22:56:43 2012
From: liziswhatis at hotmail.com (Liz Bottner)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 18:56:43 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] From the NABS Membership Committee: Calling all Athletes!
Message-ID: <SNT124-DS71DBA4B82B4909B001FCBBA5E0@phx.gbl>

Calling All Athletes:

    The NABS Membership Committee is sponsoring a conference call for March
on the topic of sports and recreation opportunities for people who are blind
and low vision. This is where you, the membership, come in. If you play any
type of sport geared toward the blind and would be interested in sharing
your experiences as a guest speaker on the call, we want to hear from you!
All interested persons please send an e-mail expressing interest to
nabs.membership at gmail.com with the subject "NABS Sports Conference Call".

 

Thank you, and we hope that everyone's semesters are going well.

 

Your NABS Membership Committee

 

Liz Bottner

Guiding Eyes Graduate Council

GEB Voicemail:  800-942-0149 Ext. 2531

e-mail: 

 <mailto:liziswhatis at hotmail.com> liziswhatis at hotmail.com 

Visit my LiveJournal: 

 <http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com/>
http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com 

Follow me on Twitter: 

http://twitter.com/lizbot 

 


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Mar 16 01:42:43 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 21:42:43 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Improved Website
Message-ID: <4f629a98.85c3e00a.2846.15e5@mx.google.com>

Thanks, Nicole! I will check this out on both my BrailleNote Apex 
and with JAWS on my PC.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
To: "NABS-L" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 16:06:13 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Improved Website

    A few weeks ago, I asked that people evaluate a website that 
I built for a project.  I am asking that people please evaluate 
it again as I have made improvements and I have to finish the 
project soon.  The URL is www.accessibleeateries.com.

Thanks,
Nicole
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com


From fowlers at syix.com  Fri Mar 16 01:47:37 2012
From: fowlers at syix.com (Angela Fowler)
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 18:47:37 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Updated California Chemistry Camp Program Announcement
Message-ID: <E7C005A99F604A9B89A80FA569D2DEAB@AngelaPC>

Please pass this on to all who may benefit.


  _____  

Announcing the 2012 California Chemistry Camp!
 
 

Would you like to learn how blind people tackle the very visual subject of
organic chemistry successfully? Do you have a general love for science? Do
you want to learn how you can do chemistry as a blind person just as
successfully as your sighted peers? Do you want to apply the chemistry you
learned to food such as olive oil? Are you interested in how blind
professionals use science in their careers every day? Then the 2012
California Chemistry Camp is for you!

Come join the National Federation of the Blind of California, the California
Association of Blind Students, the Lighthouse for the Blind of San
Francisco, the University of California, Davis chemistry department, TPG
Capital, and up to fifteen blind and low-vision high school students for an
Educational, exciting, and Fun-Filled weekend of science!

 
There's still time to apply for the 2012 California Chemistry Camp!  
The new application deadline is April 5, 2012. 
 
To see more about the camp and apply online, 
go to: 
www.sixdots.org
and follow the link to the application! 
We hope to see you in Northern California in a little more than a month!
This should be a life-changing experience!
 
Yours sincerely, 
 
-- Henry (Hoby) Wedler
Chemistry Camp Coordinator
 

From readtobuild at gmail.com  Fri Mar 16 08:27:39 2012
From: readtobuild at gmail.com (lanie molinar)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 03:27:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Updated California Chemistry Camp Program
	Announcement
In-Reply-To: <E7C005A99F604A9B89A80FA569D2DEAB@AngelaPC>
References: <E7C005A99F604A9B89A80FA569D2DEAB@AngelaPC>
Message-ID: <CAFAq5v1MfDP5H3u7kewwFsO4hW_cPNWXroZhTe2EEUceaJo3hQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 3/15/12, Angela Fowler <fowlers at syix.com> wrote:
> Please pass this on to all who may benefit.
>
>
>   _____
>
> Announcing the 2012 California Chemistry Camp!
>
>
>
> Would you like to learn how blind people tackle the very visual subject of
> organic chemistry successfully? Do you have a general love for science? Do
> you want to learn how you can do chemistry as a blind person just as
> successfully as your sighted peers? Do you want to apply the chemistry you
> learned to food such as olive oil? Are you interested in how blind
> professionals use science in their careers every day? Then the 2012
> California Chemistry Camp is for you!
>
> Come join the National Federation of the Blind of California, the California
> Association of Blind Students, the Lighthouse for the Blind of San
> Francisco, the University of California, Davis chemistry department, TPG
> Capital, and up to fifteen blind and low-vision high school students for an
> Educational, exciting, and Fun-Filled weekend of science!
>
>
> There's still time to apply for the 2012 California Chemistry Camp!
> The new application deadline is April 5, 2012.
>
> To see more about the camp and apply online,
> go to:
> www.sixdots.org
> and follow the link to the application!
> We hope to see you in Northern California in a little more than a month!
> This should be a life-changing experience!
>
> Yours sincerely,
>
> -- Henry (Hoby) Wedler
> Chemistry Camp Coordinator
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/readtobuild%40gmail.com
>


From yasa.sylvia at gmail.com  Fri Mar 16 14:19:39 2012
From: yasa.sylvia at gmail.com (Sylvia Yasa)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 10:19:39 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Mathematical Book
Message-ID: <CAN9cNjinrDUsboqRRTEDAt_Aa60ZS=6k5FaydxNmRAQjF4g6Xg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I have a friend who is taking a Mathematics course online where they
are using the book "The Mathematical Palette". She couldn't find this
book in an accessible format on bookshare, RFBD, or the NLS. Any
suggestions are highly valued.
Thanks,
Sylvia


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Mar 16 14:22:33 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 09:22:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Mathematical Book
In-Reply-To: <CAN9cNjinrDUsboqRRTEDAt_Aa60ZS=6k5FaydxNmRAQjF4g6Xg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN9cNjinrDUsboqRRTEDAt_Aa60ZS=6k5FaydxNmRAQjF4g6Xg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOsgjotnPfVu=y+dgxEir5OKnUXjAZPznen9w5ThjEoX6A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Sylvia.
http://www.mbvol.org
They can put it into Braille, and VR would pay for it.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/16/12, Sylvia Yasa <yasa.sylvia at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have a friend who is taking a Mathematics course online where they
> are using the book "The Mathematical Palette". She couldn't find this
> book in an accessible format on bookshare, RFBD, or the NLS. Any
> suggestions are highly valued.
> Thanks,
> Sylvia
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com  Fri Mar 16 19:28:24 2012
From: nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com (community service Outreach)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 14:28:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for guest speaker to speak about alternative
	spring break projects
Message-ID: <CAOY844RDdWASjHXF30suEZkY4=fj5MvNBNmHRiztdVcPP8zUxg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, everyone,

I am wondering if anyone on this list has participated in alternative
spring break projects. The Community Service Group is looking for a
guest speaker for our monthly membership call who would be willing to
speak about their experiences with these types of projects. Our call
is on March 25th.

Thanks!

Julie


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Mar 16 21:58:20 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:58:20 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
Message-ID: <4f63b781.85c3e00a.2846.ffffca05@mx.google.com>

Thanks, Ashley! I think you are referring to the series of books 
by Noreen Grice.  I have "Touch the Universe," and I believe it 
was from NBP.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:25:23 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Chris,
Geometry and astronomy are interesting.  Geometry has some real 
world problem
solving applications.
I didn't like it but somehow got through it.  I'm not an abstract 
thinker.
I remember how you compare shapes and figure out the missing 
angle number
and things like that.  The problem solving and critical thinking 
skills carry
over to other subjects though.

For astronomy, well I did not take that in high school; Virginia 
doesn't
require that; we take different sciences.

But I suggest getting tactile diagrams of the stars and galaxies.  
I think
NASA or National braille press has some books.  One is called 
Touch the
stars.
I think if your vi teacher explains diagrams and what the lines 
represent
and labels them, it will make more sense.
Some concepts though are better illustrated in a 3 d thing; so 
you could
make a model for those situations.

Ashley

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:17 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of
tactile graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them!
I really don't like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if
possible.  But we're doing geometry in math and astronomy in
science, both of which are very visual units which require a lot
of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a break from the
constant
diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready
for our state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment
(MSA.)

Chris
Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

----- Original Message -----
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Hi Vejas,
I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much
out
of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.
But if
you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if
you
can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my
experience
that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.)
is
not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you
are
learning about.
You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is
any
free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the
only
student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your
school
has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your
parents are
willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when
I was
in high school.
A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how
to
best explain the ideas to you.
Arielle

On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams
have
lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a
lot,
so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
stands for.
But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention
to
the diagrams.
Vejas


  ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
cluttered, then
it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
help you?

----- Original Message -----
From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring


  Hi,
  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
My
  teacher is OK, I guess.
  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
me, so I
  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
helped.
  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers
loves
the way
  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was
a
sighter
  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
stuff you
  need? I have a test tomorrow.
  Thanks for any input.
  Vejas

  _______________________________________________
  nabs-l mailing list
  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info for
  nabs-l:


http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
wavecable.com


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info
for nabs-l:

http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40g
mail.com

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nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info for
nabs-l:

http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
mail.com


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
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m%40gmail.com

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
0earthlink.net


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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m%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Mar 16 21:59:23 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:59:23 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] podcasts and college courses survey link again
Message-ID: <4f63b7c0.85c3e00a.2846.ffffca3b@mx.google.com>

Hello everyone,

Well, it appears the "correction" email I sent out last Sunday 
didn't correct anything at all; rather, it confused things even 
more! Let's try it again.  Here is the link to the survey on the 
uses and accessibility of podcasts in college courses: 
HTTP3$U4SURVEYGIZMO4COM/S#C/GBECEG/,CURR5T-,USES-&-,A3ESSIBILI
  TY-(-,PODCA/S-IN-,ONL9E-,COLLEGE-,C\RSES

?I hope this works! Sorry for all the confusion!

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Mar 16 21:59:24 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:59:24 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] fw: seeking participants to evaluate new access
	technologies
Message-ID: <4f63b7c2.85c3e00a.2846.ffffca3c@mx.google.com>



---- Original Message ------
From: Mollyne Honor <mrhonor at LBPH.LIB.MD.US
Subject: Seeking participants to evaluate new access technologies
Date sent: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 11:28:31 -0400



The Human-Centered Computing Program at the University of 
Maryland Baltimore
County (UMBC) is conducting a research study to evaluate new 
access
technologies to improve reading for blind and visually impaired 
people.  Our
goal is to improve the usability and accessibility of computers 
for people
with a range of abilities.



To that end, we are recruiting participants for our current 
research study,
entitled "Evaluating Gesture-Based Access Technologies for People 
with
Disabilities." This study will ask you to test out a new 
computing device
that uses gestures to improve the accessibility of a mobile 
device.  The
study may take place at our research lab on the UMBC campus or at 
a location
of your choosing.



For the current study, we are seeking blind and visually impaired
participants.  Specifically, we are seeking participants who have 
difficulty
reading standard-sized print documents.



If you are interested in participating in our study or have 
further
questions, please contact Dr.  Shaun Kane by phone at 
206-923-8306 or by
email at skane at umbc.edu.  Please note that we cannot guarantee 
the
confidentiality of email.



To participate in this study, you must be 18 years or older.  You 
must also
have the physical dexterity needed to use a computer for 
approximately 2
hours.



We encourage people of all genders, ethnicities, and familiarity 
levels with
computers to participate.  Remember that it is only the 
technology that we
are testing, not you.



This study will take between 1 and 2 hours.  You will receive a 
$20 gift card
for completing a one-hour study, or a $30 gift card for 
completing a
two-hour study.







Dr.  Shaun Kane
Assistant Professor
Department of Information Systems

University of Maryland Baltimore County
Phone: 206-923-8306
Email:  <mailto:skane at umbc.edu> skane at umbc.edu
Web site:  <http://userpages.umbc.edu/~skane
http://userpages.umbc.edu/~skane








From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 16 22:19:31 2012
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 15:19:31 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] podcasts and college courses survey link again
In-Reply-To: <4f63b7c0.85c3e00a.2846.ffffca3b@mx.google.com>
References: <4f63b7c0.85c3e00a.2846.ffffca3b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <F3A9291433CF43D096C7CC1BA12021A1@HUMBERTOAVILA>

Hello Chris,

It makes things very confusing because your Braille note seems to interpret
the URL address in the wrong manner. Are you trying to type this in grade 2
Braille? If so, are you using the appropriate computer Braille code signs
for initiation and finalization of computer Braille code, like dots 4-5-6,
and then an ING sign for start computer braile, and then dots 4-5-6, then wh
sign for end computer Braille? Or how are you doing this. It seems to handle
it differently. 

You can try, if you want this link to work, different things. You can use
computer Braille just as a whole altogether in your email message, or, you
can just send your message with the correct link and format from your
computer and/or your webmail for gMail. How the heck are readers of the
message supposed to click on a link of a URL that has a bunch of Braille
note coded junk? <smile!>


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 2:59 PM
To: NFB NABS list; MDABS List
Subject: [nabs-l] podcasts and college courses survey link again

Hello everyone,

Well, it appears the "correction" email I sent out last Sunday 
didn't correct anything at all; rather, it confused things even 
more! Let's try it again.  Here is the link to the survey on the 
uses and accessibility of podcasts in college courses: 
HTTP3$U4SURVEYGIZMO4COM/S#C/GBECEG/,CURR5T-,USES-&-,A3ESSIBILI
  TY-(-,PODCA/S-IN-,ONL9E-,COLLEGE-,C\RSES

?I hope this works! Sorry for all the confusion!

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g
mail.com



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 16 22:26:54 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 18:26:54 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
In-Reply-To: <4f63b781.85c3e00a.2846.ffffca05@mx.google.com>
References: <4f63b781.85c3e00a.2846.ffffca05@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <3B1A2D16A22C47C68CD183F66AFBCB17@OwnerPC>

Chris,
Yes; its by Noreen Grice and I found the book. Its published by national 
braille press.
If you are curious about stars or you are in a class such as astronomy that 
requires this knowledge, I recommend it. It even gives you directions as to 
how to explore the diagram. It says stuff like"the big dipper is the shape 
of a drinking gourd. Trace your fingers around the top part and feel the 
three stars up top."

Ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:58 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Thanks, Ashley! I think you are referring to the series of books
by Noreen Grice.  I have "Touch the Universe," and I believe it
was from NBP.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:25:23 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Chris,
Geometry and astronomy are interesting.  Geometry has some real
world problem
solving applications.
I didn't like it but somehow got through it.  I'm not an abstract
thinker.
I remember how you compare shapes and figure out the missing
angle number
and things like that.  The problem solving and critical thinking
skills carry
over to other subjects though.

For astronomy, well I did not take that in high school; Virginia
doesn't
require that; we take different sciences.

But I suggest getting tactile diagrams of the stars and galaxies.
I think
NASA or National braille press has some books.  One is called
Touch the
stars.
I think if your vi teacher explains diagrams and what the lines
represent
and labels them, it will make more sense.
Some concepts though are better illustrated in a 3 d thing; so
you could
make a model for those situations.

Ashley

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:17 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of
tactile graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them!
I really don't like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if
possible.  But we're doing geometry in math and astronomy in
science, both of which are very visual units which require a lot
of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a break from the
constant
diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready
for our state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment
(MSA.)

Chris
Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

----- Original Message -----
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Hi Vejas,
I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much
out
of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.
But if
you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if
you
can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my
experience
that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.)
is
not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you
are
learning about.
You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is
any
free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the
only
student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your
school
has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your
parents are
willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when
I was
in high school.
A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how
to
best explain the ideas to you.
Arielle

On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams
have
lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a
lot,
so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
stands for.
But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention
to
the diagrams.
Vejas


  ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
cluttered, then
it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
help you?

----- Original Message -----
From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring


  Hi,
  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
My
  teacher is OK, I guess.
  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
me, so I
  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
helped.
  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers
loves
the way
  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was
a
sighter
  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
stuff you
  need? I have a test tomorrow.
  Thanks for any input.
  Vejas

  _______________________________________________
  nabs-l mailing list
  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info for
  nabs-l:


http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
wavecable.com


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info
for nabs-l:

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mail.com

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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nabs-l:

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Mar 16 22:34:38 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:34:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
In-Reply-To: <3B1A2D16A22C47C68CD183F66AFBCB17@OwnerPC>
References: <4f63b781.85c3e00a.2846.ffffca05@mx.google.com>
	<3B1A2D16A22C47C68CD183F66AFBCB17@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOsor_jJqhyyezftFa-WErdX81MLugjDpU-PrqdTrJ-bhw@mail.gmail.com>

Hey!
This lady spoke at the Dallas convention, 2 years ago!
I was there, and I enjoyed it!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/16/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Chris,
> Yes; its by Noreen Grice and I found the book. Its published by national
> braille press.
> If you are curious about stars or you are in a class such as astronomy that
> requires this knowledge, I recommend it. It even gives you directions as to
> how to explore the diagram. It says stuff like"the big dipper is the shape
> of a drinking gourd. Trace your fingers around the top part and feel the
> three stars up top."
>
> Ashley
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:58 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Thanks, Ashley! I think you are referring to the series of books
> by Noreen Grice.  I have "Touch the Universe," and I believe it
> was from NBP.
>
> Chris
>
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
> nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:25:23 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Chris,
> Geometry and astronomy are interesting.  Geometry has some real
> world problem
> solving applications.
> I didn't like it but somehow got through it.  I'm not an abstract
> thinker.
> I remember how you compare shapes and figure out the missing
> angle number
> and things like that.  The problem solving and critical thinking
> skills carry
> over to other subjects though.
>
> For astronomy, well I did not take that in high school; Virginia
> doesn't
> require that; we take different sciences.
>
> But I suggest getting tactile diagrams of the stars and galaxies.
> I think
> NASA or National braille press has some books.  One is called
> Touch the
> stars.
> I think if your vi teacher explains diagrams and what the lines
> represent
> and labels them, it will make more sense.
> Some concepts though are better illustrated in a 3 d thing; so
> you could
> make a model for those situations.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:17 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of
> tactile graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them!
> I really don't like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if
> possible.  But we're doing geometry in math and astronomy in
> science, both of which are very visual units which require a lot
> of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a break from the
> constant
> diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready
> for our state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment
> (MSA.)
>
> Chris
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
> nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Hi Vejas,
> I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much
> out
> of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
> diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.
> But if
> you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if
> you
> can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my
> experience
> that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.)
> is
> not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you
> are
> learning about.
> You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is
> any
> free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the
> only
> student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your
> school
> has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
> available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your
> parents are
> willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when
> I was
> in high school.
> A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how
> to
> best explain the ideas to you.
> Arielle
>
> On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams
> have
> lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a
> lot,
> so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
> stands for.
> But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention
> to
> the diagrams.
> Vejas
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
> cluttered, then
> it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
> help you?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
>
>   Hi,
>   I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
> My
>   teacher is OK, I guess.
>   Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
> me, so I
>   don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
> helped.
>   Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers
> loves
> the way
>   diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was
> a
> sighter
>   person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
> stuff you
>   need? I have a test tomorrow.
>   Thanks for any input.
>   Vejas
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   nabs-l mailing list
>   nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>   http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>   To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>   nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
> wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info
> for nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40g
> mail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
> 0earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Fri Mar 16 23:56:04 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 16:56:04 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
References: <4f63b781.85c3e00a.2846.ffffca05@mx.google.com>
	<3B1A2D16A22C47C68CD183F66AFBCB17@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <355D2E81A7754DA2B8825415BA295300@stanford.edu>

Which one did you find, Touch the Universe or Touch the Stars II? They are 
very different.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring


> Chris,
> Yes; its by Noreen Grice and I found the book. Its published by national 
> braille press.
> If you are curious about stars or you are in a class such as astronomy 
> that requires this knowledge, I recommend it. It even gives you directions 
> as to how to explore the diagram. It says stuff like"the big dipper is the 
> shape of a drinking gourd. Trace your fingers around the top part and feel 
> the three stars up top."
>
> Ashley
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:58 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Thanks, Ashley! I think you are referring to the series of books
> by Noreen Grice.  I have "Touch the Universe," and I believe it
> was from NBP.
>
> Chris
>
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
> nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:25:23 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Chris,
> Geometry and astronomy are interesting.  Geometry has some real
> world problem
> solving applications.
> I didn't like it but somehow got through it.  I'm not an abstract
> thinker.
> I remember how you compare shapes and figure out the missing
> angle number
> and things like that.  The problem solving and critical thinking
> skills carry
> over to other subjects though.
>
> For astronomy, well I did not take that in high school; Virginia
> doesn't
> require that; we take different sciences.
>
> But I suggest getting tactile diagrams of the stars and galaxies.
> I think
> NASA or National braille press has some books.  One is called
> Touch the
> stars.
> I think if your vi teacher explains diagrams and what the lines
> represent
> and labels them, it will make more sense.
> Some concepts though are better illustrated in a 3 d thing; so
> you could
> make a model for those situations.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:17 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of
> tactile graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them!
> I really don't like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if
> possible.  But we're doing geometry in math and astronomy in
> science, both of which are very visual units which require a lot
> of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a break from the
> constant
> diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready
> for our state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment
> (MSA.)
>
> Chris
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
> nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Hi Vejas,
> I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much
> out
> of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
> diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.
> But if
> you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if
> you
> can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my
> experience
> that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.)
> is
> not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you
> are
> learning about.
> You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is
> any
> free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the
> only
> student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your
> school
> has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
> available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your
> parents are
> willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when
> I was
> in high school.
> A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how
> to
> best explain the ideas to you.
> Arielle
>
> On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams
> have
> lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a
> lot,
> so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
> stands for.
> But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention
> to
> the diagrams.
> Vejas
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
> cluttered, then
> it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
> help you?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
>
>  Hi,
>  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
> My
>  teacher is OK, I guess.
>  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
> me, so I
>  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
> helped.
>  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers
> loves
> the way
>  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was
> a
> sighter
>  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
> stuff you
>  need? I have a test tomorrow.
>  Thanks for any input.
>  Vejas
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Mar 16 23:58:33 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 18:58:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
In-Reply-To: <355D2E81A7754DA2B8825415BA295300@stanford.edu>
References: <4f63b781.85c3e00a.2846.ffffca05@mx.google.com>
	<3B1A2D16A22C47C68CD183F66AFBCB17@OwnerPC>
	<355D2E81A7754DA2B8825415BA295300@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtOvH137J_nvDJCucAPhFK2GZngVo0g+yWw04QR-Ksr8Q@mail.gmail.com>

Didn't the same person produce both books?
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/16/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Which one did you find, Touch the Universe or Touch the Stars II? They are
> very different.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 3:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
>
>> Chris,
>> Yes; its by Noreen Grice and I found the book. Its published by national
>> braille press.
>> If you are curious about stars or you are in a class such as astronomy
>> that requires this knowledge, I recommend it. It even gives you directions
>>
>> as to how to explore the diagram. It says stuff like"the big dipper is the
>>
>> shape of a drinking gourd. Trace your fingers around the top part and feel
>>
>> the three stars up top."
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:58 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Thanks, Ashley! I think you are referring to the series of books
>> by Noreen Grice.  I have "Touch the Universe," and I believe it
>> was from NBP.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>> nuisance."
>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:25:23 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Chris,
>> Geometry and astronomy are interesting.  Geometry has some real
>> world problem
>> solving applications.
>> I didn't like it but somehow got through it.  I'm not an abstract
>> thinker.
>> I remember how you compare shapes and figure out the missing
>> angle number
>> and things like that.  The problem solving and critical thinking
>> skills carry
>> over to other subjects though.
>>
>> For astronomy, well I did not take that in high school; Virginia
>> doesn't
>> require that; we take different sciences.
>>
>> But I suggest getting tactile diagrams of the stars and galaxies.
>> I think
>> NASA or National braille press has some books.  One is called
>> Touch the
>> stars.
>> I think if your vi teacher explains diagrams and what the lines
>> represent
>> and labels them, it will make more sense.
>> Some concepts though are better illustrated in a 3 d thing; so
>> you could
>> make a model for those situations.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:17 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of
>> tactile graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them!
>> I really don't like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if
>> possible.  But we're doing geometry in math and astronomy in
>> science, both of which are very visual units which require a lot
>> of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a break from the
>> constant
>> diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready
>> for our state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment
>> (MSA.)
>>
>> Chris
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>> nuisance."
>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Hi Vejas,
>> I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much
>> out
>> of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
>> diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.
>> But if
>> you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if
>> you
>> can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my
>> experience
>> that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.)
>> is
>> not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you
>> are
>> learning about.
>> You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is
>> any
>> free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the
>> only
>> student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your
>> school
>> has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
>> available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your
>> parents are
>> willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when
>> I was
>> in high school.
>> A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how
>> to
>> best explain the ideas to you.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams
>> have
>> lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a
>> lot,
>> so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
>> stands for.
>> But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention
>> to
>> the diagrams.
>> Vejas
>>
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
>> cluttered, then
>> it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
>> help you?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>>
>>  Hi,
>>  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
>> My
>>  teacher is OK, I guess.
>>  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
>> me, so I
>>  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
>> helped.
>>  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers
>> loves
>> the way
>>  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was
>> a
>> sighter
>>  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
>> stuff you
>>  need? I have a test tomorrow.
>>  Thanks for any input.
>>  Vejas
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>  nabs-l:
>>
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
>> wavecable.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info
>> for nabs-l:
>>
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>> mail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
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>> mail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>> m%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
>> 0earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>> m%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Mar 17 00:13:44 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 17:13:44 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Astronomy Books was Re: a question about science and
	tutoring
References: <4f63b781.85c3e00a.2846.ffffca05@mx.google.com><3B1A2D16A22C47C68CD183F66AFBCB17@OwnerPC><355D2E81A7754DA2B8825415BA295300@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOtOvH137J_nvDJCucAPhFK2GZngVo0g+yWw04QR-Ksr8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B44C8EE039114A7F920F74DF928A95A2@stanford.edu>

Yes, but nonetheless, they are different.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring


> Didn't the same person produce both books?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 3/16/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> Which one did you find, Touch the Universe or Touch the Stars II? They 
>> are
>> very different.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 3:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>>
>>> Chris,
>>> Yes; its by Noreen Grice and I found the book. Its published by national
>>> braille press.
>>> If you are curious about stars or you are in a class such as astronomy
>>> that requires this knowledge, I recommend it. It even gives you 
>>> directions
>>>
>>> as to how to explore the diagram. It says stuff like"the big dipper is 
>>> the
>>>
>>> shape of a drinking gourd. Trace your fingers around the top part and 
>>> feel
>>>
>>> the three stars up top."
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:58 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>
>>> Thanks, Ashley! I think you are referring to the series of books
>>> by Noreen Grice.  I have "Touch the Universe," and I believe it
>>> was from NBP.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>> nuisance."
>>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:25:23 -0400
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>
>>> Chris,
>>> Geometry and astronomy are interesting.  Geometry has some real
>>> world problem
>>> solving applications.
>>> I didn't like it but somehow got through it.  I'm not an abstract
>>> thinker.
>>> I remember how you compare shapes and figure out the missing
>>> angle number
>>> and things like that.  The problem solving and critical thinking
>>> skills carry
>>> over to other subjects though.
>>>
>>> For astronomy, well I did not take that in high school; Virginia
>>> doesn't
>>> require that; we take different sciences.
>>>
>>> But I suggest getting tactile diagrams of the stars and galaxies.
>>> I think
>>> NASA or National braille press has some books.  One is called
>>> Touch the
>>> stars.
>>> I think if your vi teacher explains diagrams and what the lines
>>> represent
>>> and labels them, it will make more sense.
>>> Some concepts though are better illustrated in a 3 d thing; so
>>> you could
>>> make a model for those situations.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:17 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>
>>> Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of
>>> tactile graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them!
>>> I really don't like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if
>>> possible.  But we're doing geometry in math and astronomy in
>>> science, both of which are very visual units which require a lot
>>> of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a break from the
>>> constant
>>> diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready
>>> for our state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment
>>> (MSA.)
>>>
>>> Chris
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>> nuisance."
>>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>
>>> Hi Vejas,
>>> I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much
>>> out
>>> of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
>>> diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.
>>> But if
>>> you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if
>>> you
>>> can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my
>>> experience
>>> that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.)
>>> is
>>> not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you
>>> are
>>> learning about.
>>> You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is
>>> any
>>> free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the
>>> only
>>> student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your
>>> school
>>> has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
>>> available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your
>>> parents are
>>> willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when
>>> I was
>>> in high school.
>>> A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how
>>> to
>>> best explain the ideas to you.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams
>>> have
>>> lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a
>>> lot,
>>> so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
>>> stands for.
>>> But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention
>>> to
>>> the diagrams.
>>> Vejas
>>>
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>
>>> Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
>>> cluttered, then
>>> it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
>>> help you?
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>
>>>
>>>  Hi,
>>>  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
>>> My
>>>  teacher is OK, I guess.
>>>  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
>>> me, so I
>>>  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
>>> helped.
>>>  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers
>>> loves
>>> the way
>>>  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was
>>> a
>>> sighter
>>>  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
>>> stuff you
>>>  need? I have a test tomorrow.
>>>  Thanks for any input.
>>>  Vejas
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>>  nabs-l:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
>>> wavecable.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40g
>>> mail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>> mail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>>> m%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
>>> 0earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>>> m%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 17 00:57:13 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 20:57:13 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOtOvH137J_nvDJCucAPhFK2GZngVo0g+yWw04QR-Ksr8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f63b781.85c3e00a.2846.ffffca05@mx.google.com><3B1A2D16A22C47C68CD183F66AFBCB17@OwnerPC><355D2E81A7754DA2B8825415BA295300@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOtOvH137J_nvDJCucAPhFK2GZngVo0g+yWw04QR-Ksr8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BE9BCDBA72BA46A59DC365179FB4F681@OwnerPC>

Yes she did.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 7:58 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Didn't the same person produce both books?
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/16/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Which one did you find, Touch the Universe or Touch the Stars II? They are
> very different.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 3:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
>
>> Chris,
>> Yes; its by Noreen Grice and I found the book. Its published by national
>> braille press.
>> If you are curious about stars or you are in a class such as astronomy
>> that requires this knowledge, I recommend it. It even gives you 
>> directions
>>
>> as to how to explore the diagram. It says stuff like"the big dipper is 
>> the
>>
>> shape of a drinking gourd. Trace your fingers around the top part and 
>> feel
>>
>> the three stars up top."
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:58 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Thanks, Ashley! I think you are referring to the series of books
>> by Noreen Grice.  I have "Touch the Universe," and I believe it
>> was from NBP.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>> nuisance."
>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:25:23 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Chris,
>> Geometry and astronomy are interesting.  Geometry has some real
>> world problem
>> solving applications.
>> I didn't like it but somehow got through it.  I'm not an abstract
>> thinker.
>> I remember how you compare shapes and figure out the missing
>> angle number
>> and things like that.  The problem solving and critical thinking
>> skills carry
>> over to other subjects though.
>>
>> For astronomy, well I did not take that in high school; Virginia
>> doesn't
>> require that; we take different sciences.
>>
>> But I suggest getting tactile diagrams of the stars and galaxies.
>> I think
>> NASA or National braille press has some books.  One is called
>> Touch the
>> stars.
>> I think if your vi teacher explains diagrams and what the lines
>> represent
>> and labels them, it will make more sense.
>> Some concepts though are better illustrated in a 3 d thing; so
>> you could
>> make a model for those situations.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:17 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of
>> tactile graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them!
>> I really don't like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if
>> possible.  But we're doing geometry in math and astronomy in
>> science, both of which are very visual units which require a lot
>> of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a break from the
>> constant
>> diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready
>> for our state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment
>> (MSA.)
>>
>> Chris
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>> nuisance."
>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Hi Vejas,
>> I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much
>> out
>> of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
>> diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.
>> But if
>> you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if
>> you
>> can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my
>> experience
>> that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.)
>> is
>> not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you
>> are
>> learning about.
>> You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is
>> any
>> free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the
>> only
>> student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your
>> school
>> has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
>> available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your
>> parents are
>> willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when
>> I was
>> in high school.
>> A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how
>> to
>> best explain the ideas to you.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams
>> have
>> lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a
>> lot,
>> so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
>> stands for.
>> But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention
>> to
>> the diagrams.
>> Vejas
>>
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
>> cluttered, then
>> it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
>> help you?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>>
>>  Hi,
>>  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
>> My
>>  teacher is OK, I guess.
>>  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
>> me, so I
>>  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
>> helped.
>>  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers
>> loves
>> the way
>>  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was
>> a
>> sighter
>>  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
>> stuff you
>>  need? I have a test tomorrow.
>>  Thanks for any input.
>>  Vejas
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>  nabs-l:
>>
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
>> wavecable.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info
>> for nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40g
>> mail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>> mail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>> m%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
>> 0earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>> m%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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_______________________________________________
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 17 00:58:22 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 20:58:22 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Astronomy Books was Re: a question about science
	andtutoring
In-Reply-To: <B44C8EE039114A7F920F74DF928A95A2@stanford.edu>
References: <4f63b781.85c3e00a.2846.ffffca05@mx.google.com><3B1A2D16A22C47C68CD183F66AFBCB17@OwnerPC><355D2E81A7754DA2B8825415BA295300@stanford.edu><CAO83KOtOvH137J_nvDJCucAPhFK2GZngVo0g+yWw04QR-Ksr8Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<B44C8EE039114A7F920F74DF928A95A2@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <59757A94CCAB44A08807D46011493CD3@OwnerPC>

Nicole,
have you seen both? what topics does touch the universe cover?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 8:13 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Astronomy Books was Re: a question about science 
andtutoring

Yes, but nonetheless, they are different.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 4:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring


> Didn't the same person produce both books?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 3/16/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> Which one did you find, Touch the Universe or Touch the Stars II? They 
>> are
>> very different.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 3:26 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>>
>>> Chris,
>>> Yes; its by Noreen Grice and I found the book. Its published by national
>>> braille press.
>>> If you are curious about stars or you are in a class such as astronomy
>>> that requires this knowledge, I recommend it. It even gives you 
>>> directions
>>>
>>> as to how to explore the diagram. It says stuff like"the big dipper is 
>>> the
>>>
>>> shape of a drinking gourd. Trace your fingers around the top part and 
>>> feel
>>>
>>> the three stars up top."
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:58 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>
>>> Thanks, Ashley! I think you are referring to the series of books
>>> by Noreen Grice.  I have "Touch the Universe," and I believe it
>>> was from NBP.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>> nuisance."
>>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:25:23 -0400
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>
>>> Chris,
>>> Geometry and astronomy are interesting.  Geometry has some real
>>> world problem
>>> solving applications.
>>> I didn't like it but somehow got through it.  I'm not an abstract
>>> thinker.
>>> I remember how you compare shapes and figure out the missing
>>> angle number
>>> and things like that.  The problem solving and critical thinking
>>> skills carry
>>> over to other subjects though.
>>>
>>> For astronomy, well I did not take that in high school; Virginia
>>> doesn't
>>> require that; we take different sciences.
>>>
>>> But I suggest getting tactile diagrams of the stars and galaxies.
>>> I think
>>> NASA or National braille press has some books.  One is called
>>> Touch the
>>> stars.
>>> I think if your vi teacher explains diagrams and what the lines
>>> represent
>>> and labels them, it will make more sense.
>>> Some concepts though are better illustrated in a 3 d thing; so
>>> you could
>>> make a model for those situations.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:17 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>
>>> Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of
>>> tactile graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them!
>>> I really don't like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if
>>> possible.  But we're doing geometry in math and astronomy in
>>> science, both of which are very visual units which require a lot
>>> of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a break from the
>>> constant
>>> diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready
>>> for our state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment
>>> (MSA.)
>>>
>>> Chris
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>> nuisance."
>>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>
>>> Hi Vejas,
>>> I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much
>>> out
>>> of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
>>> diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.
>>> But if
>>> you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if
>>> you
>>> can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my
>>> experience
>>> that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.)
>>> is
>>> not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you
>>> are
>>> learning about.
>>> You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is
>>> any
>>> free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the
>>> only
>>> student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your
>>> school
>>> has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
>>> available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your
>>> parents are
>>> willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when
>>> I was
>>> in high school.
>>> A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how
>>> to
>>> best explain the ideas to you.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams
>>> have
>>> lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a
>>> lot,
>>> so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
>>> stands for.
>>> But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention
>>> to
>>> the diagrams.
>>> Vejas
>>>
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>
>>> Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
>>> cluttered, then
>>> it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
>>> help you?
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>
>>>
>>>  Hi,
>>>  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
>>> My
>>>  teacher is OK, I guess.
>>>  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
>>> me, so I
>>>  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
>>> helped.
>>>  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers
>>> loves
>>> the way
>>>  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was
>>> a
>>> sighter
>>>  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
>>> stuff you
>>>  need? I have a test tomorrow.
>>>  Thanks for any input.
>>>  Vejas
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>>  nabs-l:
>>>
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
>>> wavecable.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40g
>>> mail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>> mail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>>> m%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
>>> 0earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>>> m%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
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>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 17 00:57:48 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 20:57:48 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
In-Reply-To: <355D2E81A7754DA2B8825415BA295300@stanford.edu>
References: <4f63b781.85c3e00a.2846.ffffca05@mx.google.com><3B1A2D16A22C47C68CD183F66AFBCB17@OwnerPC>
	<355D2E81A7754DA2B8825415BA295300@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <4C6A26E1E1974113828266C3DE23E58C@OwnerPC>

Nicole,
I have touch the stars. What is touch the universe about?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 7:56 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Which one did you find, Touch the Universe or Touch the Stars II? They are
very different.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring


> Chris,
> Yes; its by Noreen Grice and I found the book. Its published by national 
> braille press.
> If you are curious about stars or you are in a class such as astronomy 
> that requires this knowledge, I recommend it. It even gives you directions 
> as to how to explore the diagram. It says stuff like"the big dipper is the 
> shape of a drinking gourd. Trace your fingers around the top part and feel 
> the three stars up top."
>
> Ashley
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:58 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Thanks, Ashley! I think you are referring to the series of books
> by Noreen Grice.  I have "Touch the Universe," and I believe it
> was from NBP.
>
> Chris
>
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
> nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:25:23 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Chris,
> Geometry and astronomy are interesting.  Geometry has some real
> world problem
> solving applications.
> I didn't like it but somehow got through it.  I'm not an abstract
> thinker.
> I remember how you compare shapes and figure out the missing
> angle number
> and things like that.  The problem solving and critical thinking
> skills carry
> over to other subjects though.
>
> For astronomy, well I did not take that in high school; Virginia
> doesn't
> require that; we take different sciences.
>
> But I suggest getting tactile diagrams of the stars and galaxies.
> I think
> NASA or National braille press has some books.  One is called
> Touch the
> stars.
> I think if your vi teacher explains diagrams and what the lines
> represent
> and labels them, it will make more sense.
> Some concepts though are better illustrated in a 3 d thing; so
> you could
> make a model for those situations.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:17 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of
> tactile graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them!
> I really don't like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if
> possible.  But we're doing geometry in math and astronomy in
> science, both of which are very visual units which require a lot
> of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a break from the
> constant
> diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready
> for our state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment
> (MSA.)
>
> Chris
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
> nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Hi Vejas,
> I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much
> out
> of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
> diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.
> But if
> you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if
> you
> can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my
> experience
> that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.)
> is
> not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you
> are
> learning about.
> You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is
> any
> free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the
> only
> student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your
> school
> has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
> available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your
> parents are
> willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when
> I was
> in high school.
> A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how
> to
> best explain the ideas to you.
> Arielle
>
> On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams
> have
> lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a
> lot,
> so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
> stands for.
> But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention
> to
> the diagrams.
> Vejas
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
> cluttered, then
> it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
> help you?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
>
>  Hi,
>  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
> My
>  teacher is OK, I guess.
>  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
> me, so I
>  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
> helped.
>  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers
> loves
> the way
>  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was
> a
> sighter
>  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
> stuff you
>  need? I have a test tomorrow.
>  Thanks for any input.
>  Vejas
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
> wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info
> for nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40g
> mail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
> nabs-l:
>
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> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
> 0earthlink.net
>
>
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> for nabs-l:
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> m%40gmail.com
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 17 01:15:47 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 21:15:47 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
Message-ID: <75ADFE82D4DE4F238EABD060241E2917@OwnerPC>

Hi all,
Has anyone used the tactile graphics kits from APH? They are kind of expensive; the tactile starter kit is $64. and the other kits are over $100.
But they sound useful.
I wonder if you have to draw backwards with that tracing wheel.

Also, has anyone used the quick draw paper from APH? If so, what is your experience? You draw on that paper and the water markers they supply with it dry and swell which make raised lines. How raised? Like the size of the piaf machine lines? Also what do the lines feel like? Does it take long to dry?
I was wondering how good this idea would be. Sounds like a great solution if its not messy.

Thanks

From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Mar 17 01:20:58 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 18:20:58 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
References: <4f63b781.85c3e00a.2846.ffffca05@mx.google.com><3B1A2D16A22C47C68CD183F66AFBCB17@OwnerPC><355D2E81A7754DA2B8825415BA295300@stanford.edu>
	<4C6A26E1E1974113828266C3DE23E58C@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <E07776DCF3DD4BD6A7E6935E3AF16D20@stanford.edu>

Do you have the first or second Touch the Stars? The second one has plastic 
graphics.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring


> Nicole,
> I have touch the stars. What is touch the universe about?
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 7:56 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Which one did you find, Touch the Universe or Touch the Stars II? They are
> very different.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 3:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
>
>> Chris,
>> Yes; its by Noreen Grice and I found the book. Its published by national 
>> braille press.
>> If you are curious about stars or you are in a class such as astronomy 
>> that requires this knowledge, I recommend it. It even gives you 
>> directions as to how to explore the diagram. It says stuff like"the big 
>> dipper is the shape of a drinking gourd. Trace your fingers around the 
>> top part and feel the three stars up top."
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:58 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Thanks, Ashley! I think you are referring to the series of books
>> by Noreen Grice.  I have "Touch the Universe," and I believe it
>> was from NBP.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>> nuisance."
>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:25:23 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Chris,
>> Geometry and astronomy are interesting.  Geometry has some real
>> world problem
>> solving applications.
>> I didn't like it but somehow got through it.  I'm not an abstract
>> thinker.
>> I remember how you compare shapes and figure out the missing
>> angle number
>> and things like that.  The problem solving and critical thinking
>> skills carry
>> over to other subjects though.
>>
>> For astronomy, well I did not take that in high school; Virginia
>> doesn't
>> require that; we take different sciences.
>>
>> But I suggest getting tactile diagrams of the stars and galaxies.
>> I think
>> NASA or National braille press has some books.  One is called
>> Touch the
>> stars.
>> I think if your vi teacher explains diagrams and what the lines
>> represent
>> and labels them, it will make more sense.
>> Some concepts though are better illustrated in a 3 d thing; so
>> you could
>> make a model for those situations.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:17 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of
>> tactile graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them!
>> I really don't like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if
>> possible.  But we're doing geometry in math and astronomy in
>> science, both of which are very visual units which require a lot
>> of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a break from the
>> constant
>> diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready
>> for our state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment
>> (MSA.)
>>
>> Chris
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>> nuisance."
>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Hi Vejas,
>> I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much
>> out
>> of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
>> diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.
>> But if
>> you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if
>> you
>> can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my
>> experience
>> that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.)
>> is
>> not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you
>> are
>> learning about.
>> You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is
>> any
>> free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the
>> only
>> student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your
>> school
>> has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
>> available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your
>> parents are
>> willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when
>> I was
>> in high school.
>> A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how
>> to
>> best explain the ideas to you.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams
>> have
>> lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a
>> lot,
>> so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
>> stands for.
>> But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention
>> to
>> the diagrams.
>> Vejas
>>
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
>> cluttered, then
>> it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
>> help you?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>>
>>  Hi,
>>  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
>> My
>>  teacher is OK, I guess.
>>  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
>> me, so I
>>  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
>> helped.
>>  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers
>> loves
>> the way
>>  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was
>> a
>> sighter
>>  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
>> stuff you
>>  need? I have a test tomorrow.
>>  Thanks for any input.
>>  Vejas
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>  nabs-l:
>>
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
>> wavecable.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info
>> for nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brlsurfer%40g
>> mail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>> mail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>> m%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
>> 0earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Mar 17 01:22:31 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 18:22:31 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
References: <75ADFE82D4DE4F238EABD060241E2917@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <145487BFCB364433AFD12C2C27163DF8@stanford.edu>

You do have to draw backwards. I think that that is the one that I have. I 
don't know what I have anymore as I have added bits and pieces here and 
there, some of which weren't even intended as drawing tools.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:15 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper


> Hi all,
> Has anyone used the tactile graphics kits from APH? They are kind of 
> expensive; the tactile starter kit is $64. and the other kits are over 
> $100.
> But they sound useful.
> I wonder if you have to draw backwards with that tracing wheel.
>
> Also, has anyone used the quick draw paper from APH? If so, what is your 
> experience? You draw on that paper and the water markers they supply with 
> it dry and swell which make raised lines. How raised? Like the size of the 
> piaf machine lines? Also what do the lines feel like? Does it take long to 
> dry?
> I was wondering how good this idea would be. Sounds like a great solution 
> if its not messy.
>
> Thanks
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 17 01:27:03 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 21:27:03 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
In-Reply-To: <E07776DCF3DD4BD6A7E6935E3AF16D20@stanford.edu>
References: <4f63b781.85c3e00a.2846.ffffca05@mx.google.com><3B1A2D16A22C47C68CD183F66AFBCB17@OwnerPC><355D2E81A7754DA2B8825415BA295300@stanford.edu><4C6A26E1E1974113828266C3DE23E58C@OwnerPC>
	<E07776DCF3DD4BD6A7E6935E3AF16D20@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <114610D5833241D7AC0C17FF4788414C@OwnerPC>

Hi,
Mine is the second then. It covers the major stars and constellations

-----Original Message----- 
From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:20 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Do you have the first or second Touch the Stars? The second one has plastic
graphics.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring


> Nicole,
> I have touch the stars. What is touch the universe about?
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 7:56 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
> Which one did you find, Touch the Universe or Touch the Stars II? They are
> very different.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 3:26 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
>
>> Chris,
>> Yes; its by Noreen Grice and I found the book. Its published by national 
>> braille press.
>> If you are curious about stars or you are in a class such as astronomy 
>> that requires this knowledge, I recommend it. It even gives you 
>> directions as to how to explore the diagram. It says stuff like"the big 
>> dipper is the shape of a drinking gourd. Trace your fingers around the 
>> top part and feel the three stars up top."
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:58 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Thanks, Ashley! I think you are referring to the series of books
>> by Noreen Grice.  I have "Touch the Universe," and I believe it
>> was from NBP.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>> nuisance."
>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:25:23 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Chris,
>> Geometry and astronomy are interesting.  Geometry has some real
>> world problem
>> solving applications.
>> I didn't like it but somehow got through it.  I'm not an abstract
>> thinker.
>> I remember how you compare shapes and figure out the missing
>> angle number
>> and things like that.  The problem solving and critical thinking
>> skills carry
>> over to other subjects though.
>>
>> For astronomy, well I did not take that in high school; Virginia
>> doesn't
>> require that; we take different sciences.
>>
>> But I suggest getting tactile diagrams of the stars and galaxies.
>> I think
>> NASA or National braille press has some books.  One is called
>> Touch the
>> stars.
>> I think if your vi teacher explains diagrams and what the lines
>> represent
>> and labels them, it will make more sense.
>> Some concepts though are better illustrated in a 3 d thing; so
>> you could
>> make a model for those situations.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:17 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of
>> tactile graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them!
>> I really don't like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if
>> possible.  But we're doing geometry in math and astronomy in
>> science, both of which are very visual units which require a lot
>> of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a break from the
>> constant
>> diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready
>> for our state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment
>> (MSA.)
>>
>> Chris
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>> nuisance."
>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Hi Vejas,
>> I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much
>> out
>> of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
>> diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.
>> But if
>> you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if
>> you
>> can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my
>> experience
>> that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.)
>> is
>> not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you
>> are
>> learning about.
>> You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is
>> any
>> free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the
>> only
>> student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your
>> school
>> has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
>> available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your
>> parents are
>> willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when
>> I was
>> in high school.
>> A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how
>> to
>> best explain the ideas to you.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams
>> have
>> lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a
>> lot,
>> so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
>> stands for.
>> But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention
>> to
>> the diagrams.
>> Vejas
>>
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>> Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
>> cluttered, then
>> it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
>> help you?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>
>>
>>  Hi,
>>  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
>> My
>>  teacher is OK, I guess.
>>  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
>> me, so I
>>  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
>> helped.
>>  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers
>> loves
>> the way
>>  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was
>> a
>> sighter
>>  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
>> stuff you
>>  need? I have a test tomorrow.
>>  Thanks for any input.
>>  Vejas
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
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>> info for
>>  nabs-l:
>>
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>>
>>
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>>
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 17 01:30:04 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 21:30:04 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
In-Reply-To: <145487BFCB364433AFD12C2C27163DF8@stanford.edu>
References: <75ADFE82D4DE4F238EABD060241E2917@OwnerPC>
	<145487BFCB364433AFD12C2C27163DF8@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <27EFEFB8C5274087BE593FAA283EC16B@OwnerPC>

oh, then that would be a little complex.
I have not used the tracing wheel; my vi teacher did it a little, but not me 
alone for classes; as I said  its rather expensive.

Hmm. Maybe I should try this quick draw paper. The price is $32 for a pack 
of sheets and the markers. It sounds
like a good thing; simply draw and you get lines that swell for a tactile 
graphic.
Also, I'm thinking of buying graphic art tape; my past vi teacher suggests 
that. If anyone used it, is it useful? I don't know what it would feel like.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:22 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper

You do have to draw backwards. I think that that is the one that I have. I
don't know what I have anymore as I have added bits and pieces here and
there, some of which weren't even intended as drawing tools.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:15 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper


> Hi all,
> Has anyone used the tactile graphics kits from APH? They are kind of 
> expensive; the tactile starter kit is $64. and the other kits are over 
> $100.
> But they sound useful.
> I wonder if you have to draw backwards with that tracing wheel.
>
> Also, has anyone used the quick draw paper from APH? If so, what is your 
> experience? You draw on that paper and the water markers they supply with 
> it dry and swell which make raised lines. How raised? Like the size of the 
> piaf machine lines? Also what do the lines feel like? Does it take long to 
> dry?
> I was wondering how good this idea would be. Sounds like a great solution 
> if its not messy.
>
> Thanks
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com


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From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Sat Mar 17 01:30:51 2012
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 21:30:51 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
References: <75ADFE82D4DE4F238EABD060241E2917@OwnerPC>
	<145487BFCB364433AFD12C2C27163DF8@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <1814E28C83B04A5A96C86509EE963AEE@acerd37f251f21>

Hi,
Someone I know used to also use a sewing wheel to make diagrams, but you 
have to use that backwards also. I think the sewing wheels are pretty 
inexpensive. I think she also had one of the APH kits too, and it was good 
because there were tools to make very small triangles, arrows, circles, and 
other things, and it also had several rectangular plates, one with lines, 
one with rough dots to make shading, and different types. I'm not exactly 
sure which kit she had, but it was useful for mathematics and 
science-related subjects that required a lot of diagrams. I think it even 
had a wooden holder to hold all of the tools together.
Also, I've seen the quick-dry paper a few times. It is kind of 
rough-feeling, and the lines are raised, but not as much as something like 
puff paint would be. As far as I remember, it dries pretty quickly.

Thanks,

Misty
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper


> You do have to draw backwards. I think that that is the one that I have. I 
> don't know what I have anymore as I have added bits and pieces here and 
> there, some of which weren't even intended as drawing tools.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:15 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
>
>
>> Hi all,
>> Has anyone used the tactile graphics kits from APH? They are kind of 
>> expensive; the tactile starter kit is $64. and the other kits are over 
>> $100.
>> But they sound useful.
>> I wonder if you have to draw backwards with that tracing wheel.
>>
>> Also, has anyone used the quick draw paper from APH? If so, what is your 
>> experience? You draw on that paper and the water markers they supply with 
>> it dry and swell which make raised lines. How raised? Like the size of 
>> the piaf machine lines? Also what do the lines feel like? Does it take 
>> long to dry?
>> I was wondering how good this idea would be. Sounds like a great solution 
>> if its not messy.
>>
>> Thanks
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com 



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sat Mar 17 01:33:05 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 20:33:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
In-Reply-To: <27EFEFB8C5274087BE593FAA283EC16B@OwnerPC>
References: <75ADFE82D4DE4F238EABD060241E2917@OwnerPC>
	<145487BFCB364433AFD12C2C27163DF8@stanford.edu>
	<27EFEFB8C5274087BE593FAA283EC16B@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtO0=ngQfp3=YQJc69G0ivGAKXqFctTyH2MWQ8kp4bP4w@mail.gmail.com>

Ashley, I sent you an E-mail, discussing what my former teachers did.
Did you get it?
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/16/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> oh, then that would be a little complex.
> I have not used the tracing wheel; my vi teacher did it a little, but not me
> alone for classes; as I said  its rather expensive.
>
> Hmm. Maybe I should try this quick draw paper. The price is $32 for a pack
> of sheets and the markers. It sounds
> like a good thing; simply draw and you get lines that swell for a tactile
> graphic.
> Also, I'm thinking of buying graphic art tape; my past vi teacher suggests
> that. If anyone used it, is it useful? I don't know what it would feel like.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:22 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
>
> You do have to draw backwards. I think that that is the one that I have. I
> don't know what I have anymore as I have added bits and pieces here and
> there, some of which weren't even intended as drawing tools.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:15 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
>
>
>> Hi all,
>> Has anyone used the tactile graphics kits from APH? They are kind of
>> expensive; the tactile starter kit is $64. and the other kits are over
>> $100.
>> But they sound useful.
>> I wonder if you have to draw backwards with that tracing wheel.
>>
>> Also, has anyone used the quick draw paper from APH? If so, what is your
>> experience? You draw on that paper and the water markers they supply with
>> it dry and swell which make raised lines. How raised? Like the size of the
>>
>> piaf machine lines? Also what do the lines feel like? Does it take long to
>>
>> dry?
>> I was wondering how good this idea would be. Sounds like a great solution
>> if its not messy.
>>
>> Thanks
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Mar 17 01:33:38 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 18:33:38 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Astronomy Books was Re: a question about
	scienceandtutoring
References: <4f63b781.85c3e00a.2846.ffffca05@mx.google.com><3B1A2D16A22C47C68CD183F66AFBCB17@OwnerPC><355D2E81A7754DA2B8825415BA295300@stanford.edu><CAO83KOtOvH137J_nvDJCucAPhFK2GZngVo0g+yWw04QR-Ksr8Q@mail.gmail.com><B44C8EE039114A7F920F74DF928A95A2@stanford.edu>
	<59757A94CCAB44A08807D46011493CD3@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <3FFDE06AAA7E40808EB67AC16DC99145@stanford.edu>

I have all six of the books in the series. I can tell you their names if you 
want.
Going back to Touch the Universe, it is not from NBP. The First page says 
the following:
The Joseph Henry Press
500 Fifth Street NW
Washington DC 20001

Besides having different content, the graphics in Touch the Universe are 
made on paper where as those in Touch the Stars II are on plastic.
I have written a slightly abridged version of both of the tables of 
contents.

Touch the Universe:
The Hubble Space Telescope
Jupiter
Saturn
Uranus
The Ring Nebula
The Hourglass Nebula
The Eskimo Nebula
Eta Carinae (a huge star)
The Eagle Nebula and Gaseous Pillars
Globular Cluster
Galaxy
Galaxy Cluster
Hubble Northern Deep Field

Touch the Stars II
What Does the Sky Look Like?
The Constellations
Legends About the Stars
Some Famous Star Patterns
The Big Dipper in Ursa Major
The North Star
Lyra and the Summer Triangle
Ring Nebula
Orion
Orion Nebula
Is It a Star or a Planet?
Motion of the Planets
Our Moon
Lunar Phases
Why Does the Moon Wax and Wane?
Eclipses
Our Solar System
The Planets
Jupiter
Saturn
The Comets
Meteors
Measuring the Universe
The Lifecycle of a Star
Galaxies and Beyond
The Milky Way
Globular Star Cluster
Early Astronomers
Modern Astronomy
Northern Deep Field

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:58 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Astronomy Books was Re: a question about 
scienceandtutoring


> Nicole,
> have you seen both? what topics does touch the universe cover?
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 8:13 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Astronomy Books was Re: a question about science 
> andtutoring
>
> Yes, but nonetheless, they are different.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 4:58 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>
>
>> Didn't the same person produce both books?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/16/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>> Which one did you find, Touch the Universe or Touch the Stars II? They 
>>> are
>>> very different.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 3:26 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>
>>>
>>>> Chris,
>>>> Yes; its by Noreen Grice and I found the book. Its published by 
>>>> national
>>>> braille press.
>>>> If you are curious about stars or you are in a class such as astronomy
>>>> that requires this knowledge, I recommend it. It even gives you 
>>>> directions
>>>>
>>>> as to how to explore the diagram. It says stuff like"the big dipper is 
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>> shape of a drinking gourd. Trace your fingers around the top part and 
>>>> feel
>>>>
>>>> the three stars up top."
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:58 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Ashley! I think you are referring to the series of books
>>>> by Noreen Grice.  I have "Touch the Universe," and I believe it
>>>> was from NBP.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>>>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>>>
>>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>>> nuisance."
>>>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:25:23 -0400
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>>
>>>> Chris,
>>>> Geometry and astronomy are interesting.  Geometry has some real
>>>> world problem
>>>> solving applications.
>>>> I didn't like it but somehow got through it.  I'm not an abstract
>>>> thinker.
>>>> I remember how you compare shapes and figure out the missing
>>>> angle number
>>>> and things like that.  The problem solving and critical thinking
>>>> skills carry
>>>> over to other subjects though.
>>>>
>>>> For astronomy, well I did not take that in high school; Virginia
>>>> doesn't
>>>> require that; we take different sciences.
>>>>
>>>> But I suggest getting tactile diagrams of the stars and galaxies.
>>>> I think
>>>> NASA or National braille press has some books.  One is called
>>>> Touch the
>>>> stars.
>>>> I think if your vi teacher explains diagrams and what the lines
>>>> represent
>>>> and labels them, it will make more sense.
>>>> Some concepts though are better illustrated in a 3 d thing; so
>>>> you could
>>>> make a model for those situations.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Chris Nusbaum
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:17 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>>
>>>> Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of
>>>> tactile graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them!
>>>> I really don't like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if
>>>> possible.  But we're doing geometry in math and astronomy in
>>>> science, both of which are very visual units which require a lot
>>>> of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a break from the
>>>> constant
>>>> diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready
>>>> for our state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment
>>>> (MSA.)
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>>>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>>>
>>>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>>>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>>>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>>>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>>>> nuisance."
>>>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>>
>>>> Hi Vejas,
>>>> I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much
>>>> out
>>>> of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
>>>> diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.
>>>> But if
>>>> you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if
>>>> you
>>>> can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my
>>>> experience
>>>> that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.)
>>>> is
>>>> not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you
>>>> are
>>>> learning about.
>>>> You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is
>>>> any
>>>> free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the
>>>> only
>>>> student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your
>>>> school
>>>> has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
>>>> available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your
>>>> parents are
>>>> willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when
>>>> I was
>>>> in high school.
>>>> A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how
>>>> to
>>>> best explain the ideas to you.
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams
>>>> have
>>>> lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a
>>>> lot,
>>>> so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
>>>> stands for.
>>>> But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention
>>>> to
>>>> the diagrams.
>>>> Vejas
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>>
>>>> Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
>>>> cluttered, then
>>>> it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
>>>> help you?
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Hi,
>>>>  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
>>>> My
>>>>  teacher is OK, I guess.
>>>>  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
>>>> me, so I
>>>>  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
>>>> helped.
>>>>  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers
>>>> loves
>>>> the way
>>>>  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was
>>>> a
>>>> sighter
>>>>  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
>>>> stuff you
>>>>  need? I have a test tomorrow.
>>>>  Thanks for any input.
>>>>  Vejas
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>> info for
>>>>  nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
>>>> wavecable.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
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>>
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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Mar 17 01:34:33 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 18:34:33 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
References: <75ADFE82D4DE4F238EABD060241E2917@OwnerPC><145487BFCB364433AFD12C2C27163DF8@stanford.edu>
	<27EFEFB8C5274087BE593FAA283EC16B@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <F390235D601D40F0B0EE8DAD7EE97141@stanford.edu>

You have to cut the tape every time that you want to turn your line in a 
different direction.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper


> oh, then that would be a little complex.
> I have not used the tracing wheel; my vi teacher did it a little, but not 
> me alone for classes; as I said  its rather expensive.
>
> Hmm. Maybe I should try this quick draw paper. The price is $32 for a pack 
> of sheets and the markers. It sounds
> like a good thing; simply draw and you get lines that swell for a tactile 
> graphic.
> Also, I'm thinking of buying graphic art tape; my past vi teacher suggests 
> that. If anyone used it, is it useful? I don't know what it would feel 
> like.
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:22 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
>
> You do have to draw backwards. I think that that is the one that I have. I
> don't know what I have anymore as I have added bits and pieces here and
> there, some of which weren't even intended as drawing tools.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:15 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
>
>
>> Hi all,
>> Has anyone used the tactile graphics kits from APH? They are kind of 
>> expensive; the tactile starter kit is $64. and the other kits are over 
>> $100.
>> But they sound useful.
>> I wonder if you have to draw backwards with that tracing wheel.
>>
>> Also, has anyone used the quick draw paper from APH? If so, what is your 
>> experience? You draw on that paper and the water markers they supply with 
>> it dry and swell which make raised lines. How raised? Like the size of 
>> the piaf machine lines? Also what do the lines feel like? Does it take 
>> long to dry?
>> I was wondering how good this idea would be. Sounds like a great solution 
>> if its not messy.
>>
>> Thanks
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sat Mar 17 01:36:06 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 20:36:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
In-Reply-To: <1814E28C83B04A5A96C86509EE963AEE@acerd37f251f21>
References: <75ADFE82D4DE4F238EABD060241E2917@OwnerPC>
	<145487BFCB364433AFD12C2C27163DF8@stanford.edu>
	<1814E28C83B04A5A96C86509EE963AEE@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtPHLkF8kwj9LzYOW=0_nmyj1uJP40SQ9BeqRo50BV-og@mail.gmail.com>

My former TVI's used puff paint, and a screen board.
They'd take straw, and screen, and make a board.
Then, they'd put some of the thin graphing paper on it, and draw the
lines, with a pencil.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/16/12, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> Someone I know used to also use a sewing wheel to make diagrams, but you
> have to use that backwards also. I think the sewing wheels are pretty
> inexpensive. I think she also had one of the APH kits too, and it was good
> because there were tools to make very small triangles, arrows, circles, and
> other things, and it also had several rectangular plates, one with lines,
> one with rough dots to make shading, and different types. I'm not exactly
> sure which kit she had, but it was useful for mathematics and
> science-related subjects that required a lot of diagrams. I think it even
> had a wooden holder to hold all of the tools together.
> Also, I've seen the quick-dry paper a few times. It is kind of
> rough-feeling, and the lines are raised, but not as much as something like
> puff paint would be. As far as I remember, it dries pretty quickly.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Misty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:22 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
>
>
>> You do have to draw backwards. I think that that is the one that I have. I
>>
>> don't know what I have anymore as I have added bits and pieces here and
>> there, some of which weren't even intended as drawing tools.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:15 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
>>
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> Has anyone used the tactile graphics kits from APH? They are kind of
>>> expensive; the tactile starter kit is $64. and the other kits are over
>>> $100.
>>> But they sound useful.
>>> I wonder if you have to draw backwards with that tracing wheel.
>>>
>>> Also, has anyone used the quick draw paper from APH? If so, what is your
>>> experience? You draw on that paper and the water markers they supply with
>>>
>>> it dry and swell which make raised lines. How raised? Like the size of
>>> the piaf machine lines? Also what do the lines feel like? Does it take
>>> long to dry?
>>> I was wondering how good this idea would be. Sounds like a great solution
>>>
>>> if its not messy.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 17 01:37:41 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 21:37:41 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOtO0=ngQfp3=YQJc69G0ivGAKXqFctTyH2MWQ8kp4bP4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <75ADFE82D4DE4F238EABD060241E2917@OwnerPC><145487BFCB364433AFD12C2C27163DF8@stanford.edu><27EFEFB8C5274087BE593FAA283EC16B@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOtO0=ngQfp3=YQJc69G0ivGAKXqFctTyH2MWQ8kp4bP4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58E20E7F06D04CF797445F07BB316B72@OwnerPC>

yes

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:33 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper

Ashley, I sent you an E-mail, discussing what my former teachers did.
Did you get it?
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/16/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> oh, then that would be a little complex.
> I have not used the tracing wheel; my vi teacher did it a little, but not 
> me
> alone for classes; as I said  its rather expensive.
>
> Hmm. Maybe I should try this quick draw paper. The price is $32 for a pack
> of sheets and the markers. It sounds
> like a good thing; simply draw and you get lines that swell for a tactile
> graphic.
> Also, I'm thinking of buying graphic art tape; my past vi teacher suggests
> that. If anyone used it, is it useful? I don't know what it would feel 
> like.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:22 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
>
> You do have to draw backwards. I think that that is the one that I have. I
> don't know what I have anymore as I have added bits and pieces here and
> there, some of which weren't even intended as drawing tools.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:15 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
>
>
>> Hi all,
>> Has anyone used the tactile graphics kits from APH? They are kind of
>> expensive; the tactile starter kit is $64. and the other kits are over
>> $100.
>> But they sound useful.
>> I wonder if you have to draw backwards with that tracing wheel.
>>
>> Also, has anyone used the quick draw paper from APH? If so, what is your
>> experience? You draw on that paper and the water markers they supply with
>> it dry and swell which make raised lines. How raised? Like the size of 
>> the
>>
>> piaf machine lines? Also what do the lines feel like? Does it take long 
>> to
>>
>> dry?
>> I was wondering how good this idea would be. Sounds like a great solution
>> if its not messy.
>>
>> Thanks
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sat Mar 17 01:42:40 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 20:42:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
In-Reply-To: <58E20E7F06D04CF797445F07BB316B72@OwnerPC>
References: <75ADFE82D4DE4F238EABD060241E2917@OwnerPC>
	<145487BFCB364433AFD12C2C27163DF8@stanford.edu>
	<27EFEFB8C5274087BE593FAA283EC16B@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOtO0=ngQfp3=YQJc69G0ivGAKXqFctTyH2MWQ8kp4bP4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<58E20E7F06D04CF797445F07BB316B72@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvi3c4VU3rZ3PaKBvowCK28+Oz612jCy3_iqkBDNc6iqg@mail.gmail.com>

I'd suggest what I just mentioned, in another post.
Either use puff paint, or make a screen board.
If you need instructions on how to do this, E-mail me offlist, and
I'll give you my former TVI's contact info.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/16/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> yes
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:33 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
>
> Ashley, I sent you an E-mail, discussing what my former teachers did.
> Did you get it?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 3/16/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> oh, then that would be a little complex.
>> I have not used the tracing wheel; my vi teacher did it a little, but not
>> me
>> alone for classes; as I said  its rather expensive.
>>
>> Hmm. Maybe I should try this quick draw paper. The price is $32 for a pack
>> of sheets and the markers. It sounds
>> like a good thing; simply draw and you get lines that swell for a tactile
>> graphic.
>> Also, I'm thinking of buying graphic art tape; my past vi teacher suggests
>> that. If anyone used it, is it useful? I don't know what it would feel
>> like.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:22 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
>>
>> You do have to draw backwards. I think that that is the one that I have. I
>> don't know what I have anymore as I have added bits and pieces here and
>> there, some of which weren't even intended as drawing tools.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:15 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
>>
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> Has anyone used the tactile graphics kits from APH? They are kind of
>>> expensive; the tactile starter kit is $64. and the other kits are over
>>> $100.
>>> But they sound useful.
>>> I wonder if you have to draw backwards with that tracing wheel.
>>>
>>> Also, has anyone used the quick draw paper from APH? If so, what is your
>>> experience? You draw on that paper and the water markers they supply with
>>> it dry and swell which make raised lines. How raised? Like the size of
>>> the
>>>
>>> piaf machine lines? Also what do the lines feel like? Does it take long
>>> to
>>>
>>> dry?
>>> I was wondering how good this idea would be. Sounds like a great solution
>>> if its not messy.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 17 01:44:52 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 21:44:52 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
In-Reply-To: <1814E28C83B04A5A96C86509EE963AEE@acerd37f251f21>
References: <75ADFE82D4DE4F238EABD060241E2917@OwnerPC><145487BFCB364433AFD12C2C27163DF8@stanford.edu>
	<1814E28C83B04A5A96C86509EE963AEE@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <3F6D026D2A8D4CBEAC8A55FA50B4D14E@OwnerPC>

Misty,
Do you mean the paper is rough? Is i t like a thick plastic sheet of paper?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Misty Dawn Bradley
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper

Hi,
Someone I know used to also use a sewing wheel to make diagrams, but you
have to use that backwards also. I think the sewing wheels are pretty
inexpensive. I think she also had one of the APH kits too, and it was good
because there were tools to make very small triangles, arrows, circles, and
other things, and it also had several rectangular plates, one with lines,
one with rough dots to make shading, and different types. I'm not exactly
sure which kit she had, but it was useful for mathematics and
science-related subjects that required a lot of diagrams. I think it even
had a wooden holder to hold all of the tools together.
Also, I've seen the quick-dry paper a few times. It is kind of
rough-feeling, and the lines are raised, but not as much as something like
puff paint would be. As far as I remember, it dries pretty quickly.

Thanks,

Misty
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper


> You do have to draw backwards. I think that that is the one that I have. I 
> don't know what I have anymore as I have added bits and pieces here and 
> there, some of which weren't even intended as drawing tools.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:15 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
>
>
>> Hi all,
>> Has anyone used the tactile graphics kits from APH? They are kind of 
>> expensive; the tactile starter kit is $64. and the other kits are over 
>> $100.
>> But they sound useful.
>> I wonder if you have to draw backwards with that tracing wheel.
>>
>> Also, has anyone used the quick draw paper from APH? If so, what is your 
>> experience? You draw on that paper and the water markers they supply with 
>> it dry and swell which make raised lines. How raised? Like the size of 
>> the piaf machine lines? Also what do the lines feel like? Does it take 
>> long to dry?
>> I was wondering how good this idea would be. Sounds like a great solution 
>> if its not messy.
>>
>> Thanks
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Mar 17 01:50:24 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 18:50:24 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
References: <75ADFE82D4DE4F238EABD060241E2917@OwnerPC><145487BFCB364433AFD12C2C27163DF8@stanford.edu>
	<27EFEFB8C5274087BE593FAA283EC16B@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <9317FE738AC943F790C9EF53D36D9FBC@stanford.edu>

Actually, drawing backwards is not that hard. Also, there is a pen looking 
tool. You can poke dotes that stick out the back of the paper when it is 
facing front ways and then flip it over and connect the dots. There is a 
board with holes on the edges and a ruler that locks into the holes so that 
you can have a straight edge without having to hold it down.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper


> oh, then that would be a little complex.
> I have not used the tracing wheel; my vi teacher did it a little, but not 
> me alone for classes; as I said  its rather expensive.
>
> Hmm. Maybe I should try this quick draw paper. The price is $32 for a pack 
> of sheets and the markers. It sounds
> like a good thing; simply draw and you get lines that swell for a tactile 
> graphic.
> Also, I'm thinking of buying graphic art tape; my past vi teacher suggests 
> that. If anyone used it, is it useful? I don't know what it would feel 
> like.
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:22 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
>
> You do have to draw backwards. I think that that is the one that I have. I
> don't know what I have anymore as I have added bits and pieces here and
> there, some of which weren't even intended as drawing tools.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:15 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
>
>
>> Hi all,
>> Has anyone used the tactile graphics kits from APH? They are kind of 
>> expensive; the tactile starter kit is $64. and the other kits are over 
>> $100.
>> But they sound useful.
>> I wonder if you have to draw backwards with that tracing wheel.
>>
>> Also, has anyone used the quick draw paper from APH? If so, what is your 
>> experience? You draw on that paper and the water markers they supply with 
>> it dry and swell which make raised lines. How raised? Like the size of 
>> the piaf machine lines? Also what do the lines feel like? Does it take 
>> long to dry?
>> I was wondering how good this idea would be. Sounds like a great solution 
>> if its not messy.
>>
>> Thanks
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sat Mar 17 18:51:25 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 13:51:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvgO+AFDU+Nmcb9+3E-Guxh1zx-pqFKSoHuxRkR_qk6RA@mail.gmail.com>

I just discovered, that Firefox has crashed!
What am I to do?
Thanks, Joshua


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Mar 17 19:06:18 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 12:06:18 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
References: <CAO83KOvgO+AFDU+Nmcb9+3E-Guxh1zx-pqFKSoHuxRkR_qk6RA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7642B62AD2324B71AFCC7ACF63917DC2@stanford.edu>

What you do when any program crashes: Restart it.
If you want more help than that, you could be more descriptive.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 11:51 AM
Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!


>I just discovered, that Firefox has crashed!
> What am I to do?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sat Mar 17 19:09:00 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 14:09:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
In-Reply-To: <7642B62AD2324B71AFCC7ACF63917DC2@stanford.edu>
References: <CAO83KOvgO+AFDU+Nmcb9+3E-Guxh1zx-pqFKSoHuxRkR_qk6RA@mail.gmail.com>
	<7642B62AD2324B71AFCC7ACF63917DC2@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOv5ewSYiUkGtuopBAXeqScS-EGHZfGoq_+3ES-o2uCdyA@mail.gmail.com>

I get this crash reporter dialogue when I'm on a site, telling me to
send them an E-mail, reporting the crash, but there's no E-mail
address.
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/17/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> What you do when any program crashes: Restart it.
> If you want more help than that, you could be more descriptive.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 11:51 AM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
>
>
>>I just discovered, that Firefox has crashed!
>> What am I to do?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Mar 17 19:22:22 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 12:22:22 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
References: <CAO83KOvgO+AFDU+Nmcb9+3E-Guxh1zx-pqFKSoHuxRkR_qk6RA@mail.gmail.com><7642B62AD2324B71AFCC7ACF63917DC2@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOv5ewSYiUkGtuopBAXeqScS-EGHZfGoq_+3ES-o2uCdyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6AE6A05F780A4683A12F2F9DEC09E3CE@stanford.edu>

You don't send them an email. That is not what the dialog says, as I have 
encountered it before. The next time that it happens, I will write it down. 
What screen reader are you using?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!


>I get this crash reporter dialogue when I'm on a site, telling me to
> send them an E-mail, reporting the crash, but there's no E-mail
> address.
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 3/17/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> What you do when any program crashes: Restart it.
>> If you want more help than that, you could be more descriptive.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 11:51 AM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
>>
>>
>>>I just discovered, that Firefox has crashed!
>>> What am I to do?
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sat Mar 17 19:25:32 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 14:25:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
In-Reply-To: <6AE6A05F780A4683A12F2F9DEC09E3CE@stanford.edu>
References: <CAO83KOvgO+AFDU+Nmcb9+3E-Guxh1zx-pqFKSoHuxRkR_qk6RA@mail.gmail.com>
	<7642B62AD2324B71AFCC7ACF63917DC2@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOv5ewSYiUkGtuopBAXeqScS-EGHZfGoq_+3ES-o2uCdyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6AE6A05F780A4683A12F2F9DEC09E3CE@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOt7jp8aYRG8T0c=SrgNnHV=j5Z+VxWvjjq+hb5GiQsf8Q@mail.gmail.com>

I'm using Jaws 10.0.
This has happened to me, since yesterday.
It says to send them a crash report, so I guessed it was E-mail.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/17/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> You don't send them an email. That is not what the dialog says, as I have
> encountered it before. The next time that it happens, I will write it down.
> What screen reader are you using?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 12:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
>
>
>>I get this crash reporter dialogue when I'm on a site, telling me to
>> send them an E-mail, reporting the crash, but there's no E-mail
>> address.
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/17/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>> What you do when any program crashes: Restart it.
>>> If you want more help than that, you could be more descriptive.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 11:51 AM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
>>>
>>>
>>>>I just discovered, that Firefox has crashed!
>>>> What am I to do?
>>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Mar 17 19:46:46 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 12:46:46 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
References: <CAO83KOvgO+AFDU+Nmcb9+3E-Guxh1zx-pqFKSoHuxRkR_qk6RA@mail.gmail.com><7642B62AD2324B71AFCC7ACF63917DC2@stanford.edu><CAO83KOv5ewSYiUkGtuopBAXeqScS-EGHZfGoq_+3ES-o2uCdyA@mail.gmail.com><6AE6A05F780A4683A12F2F9DEC09E3CE@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOt7jp8aYRG8T0c=SrgNnHV=j5Z+VxWvjjq+hb5GiQsf8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <65BD04FEFB0E4D38B258181FF1E37B0C@stanford.edu>

Use JAWS key b or the JAWS cursor to read the dialog correctly. I'm not 
trying to be rude, but you really need to learn how to use your technology 
better.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!


> I'm using Jaws 10.0.
> This has happened to me, since yesterday.
> It says to send them a crash report, so I guessed it was E-mail.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/17/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> You don't send them an email. That is not what the dialog says, as I have
>> encountered it before. The next time that it happens, I will write it 
>> down.
>> What screen reader are you using?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 12:09 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
>>
>>
>>>I get this crash reporter dialogue when I'm on a site, telling me to
>>> send them an E-mail, reporting the crash, but there's no E-mail
>>> address.
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/17/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>> What you do when any program crashes: Restart it.
>>>> If you want more help than that, you could be more descriptive.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 11:51 AM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I just discovered, that Firefox has crashed!
>>>>> What am I to do?
>>>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 17 20:19:04 2012
From: franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com (Jonathan Franks)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 15:19:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOvgO+AFDU+Nmcb9+3E-Guxh1zx-pqFKSoHuxRkR_qk6RA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO83KOvgO+AFDU+Nmcb9+3E-Guxh1zx-pqFKSoHuxRkR_qk6RA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B7E9FADF-84EC-4DDF-8291-654B45354135@gmail.com>

Use Internet explorer

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 17, 2012, at 1:51 PM, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:

> I just discovered, that Firefox has crashed!
> What am I to do?
> Thanks, Joshua
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/franks.jonathan13%40gmail.com


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sat Mar 17 20:23:41 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 15:23:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
In-Reply-To: <B7E9FADF-84EC-4DDF-8291-654B45354135@gmail.com>
References: <CAO83KOvgO+AFDU+Nmcb9+3E-Guxh1zx-pqFKSoHuxRkR_qk6RA@mail.gmail.com>
	<B7E9FADF-84EC-4DDF-8291-654B45354135@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOt5Wzw4vQgQHj=q3E8bhUOPh68oY9cf6YFNFvih=6ARPg@mail.gmail.com>

That's what I'm doing, but for a Website that I'm trying to use, the
audio captcha only works with Firefox, for some reason.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/17/12, Jonathan Franks <franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Use Internet explorer
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 17, 2012, at 1:51 PM, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> I just discovered, that Firefox has crashed!
>> What am I to do?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/franks.jonathan13%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Mar 17 20:50:58 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 13:50:58 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
References: <CAO83KOvgO+AFDU+Nmcb9+3E-Guxh1zx-pqFKSoHuxRkR_qk6RA@mail.gmail.com>
	<B7E9FADF-84EC-4DDF-8291-654B45354135@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6C8A7F330D5644AEA26057E96B27ECD3@stanford.edu>

Sometimes that is a viable options, and sometimes it is not. I am still 
using Windows XP, which does not support IE 9. Therefore, there are a few 
websites with HTML functionality that I have to use in Firefox. Also, IE 
does not have web visum where as Firefox does.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jonathan Franks" <franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!


> Use Internet explorer
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 17, 2012, at 1:51 PM, Joshua Lester 
> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>
>> I just discovered, that Firefox has crashed!
>> What am I to do?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/franks.jonathan13%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com 



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 17 21:56:22 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 15:56:22 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <CABne5bHPWRW0taRA0i_mC4x1wX9x46HeMtFyRa7RGu-EhbPYBg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJOM=2EB5vjkEg0SLojdiJYOT+VzFf5kCJ-peAafqNVm+AeMQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJAsw879Pi3Y0KMUaK1Ti5NtMtO4nnUGVqep=Zyg8cEYGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<3BFE0E50CAFB49A7BF23F4D51E095A94@Gloria>
	<CA+3U9s7GsDJjmTGQGZxKAj28bYjwhW4mCUf27aHn8YjqVPmxRw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABne5bHPWRW0taRA0i_mC4x1wX9x46HeMtFyRa7RGu-EhbPYBg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJACbtrfycs5A80mhKo3Lm1jOKyBf0H-Z4dG0sqHRu8KHA@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, if you buy an N82 you can take it to At&T to get it activated. At
least with T-mobile, you can transfer your phone number by putting the
Sim card from your old phone into your new one.
Arielle

On 3/14/12, will lindsay <will.lindsay1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> the verizon haven is great and you will just need to have someone turn
> on the accessibility.  Of course the I phone would be great however I
> am still selling my Brand NEW KNFB mobile reader.  Please contact me
> directly regarding the KNFB mobile reader as I don't want to thumb
> many emails to respond to someone.  My name is Lindsay and I can
> reached at 443.415.9828
>
> On 3/14/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey Again,
>>
>> So, I have a question.  Now, if I were to buy a phone off line along
>> with accessible technology to goe with it how could I get the phone
>> service?  Would I just bring the phone to whoever provides the service
>> and they hook it up?  I am looking into the Nokia n82 & possibly AT&T,
>> but before I actually did it I wanted to ask again since I don't know.
>>
>> Thanks as always for all your help with my many questions=)
>>
>> On 3/12/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I just wanted to let you guys know if you haven't already heard there is
>>> a
>>> refreshable braille display tha tyou can purchase and get info about from
>>> the American Printing House for the blind (APH) that will work with all
>>> apple products like the I-phone and I-pad. It is about eight hundred
>>> dollars
>>> but is very helpful from what I have seen.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:01 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>
>>>
>>>>I forget if I mentioned this earlier, but Mike Hingson sells the KNFB
>>>> Reader Mobile and he might still be able to sell you a Nokia phone
>>>> with Talks or MobileSpeak but without the KNFB Reader software. If you
>>>> google Michael Hingson he has a company webpage with contact info.
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 3/9/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> if anyone needs help with iOS, let me know. Love my iTouch and iPhone,
>>>>> :)
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/6/12, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>>>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen, so
>>>>>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>>>>>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>>>>>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but as
>>>>>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products. I'm
>>>>>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>>>>>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>>>>>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of blind
>>>>>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>>>>>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>>>>>> Katie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>>>>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my Haven
>>>>>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>>>>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>>>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not
>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>>>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my
>>>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible
>>>>>>>> calender
>>>>>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is
>>>>>>>> non-touch
>>>>>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>>>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sent via gmail.com
>>>>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>>> Skype: joshgregory93
>>>>>  twitter: JoshG93
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/will.lindsay1%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> "...given proper training and opportunity, the average blind person
> can do the average job in the average place of business and do it as
> well as his or her sighted neighbor..." Freedom for the Blind, James
> H. Omvig
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 17 22:05:41 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 16:05:41 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Trip to Israel for Youth who are Both Jewish and Blind
Message-ID: <CALAYQJD+9B9E4_3fyk0Mwsusy20v5K-L+7i7h+aywQSXRvOq4Q@mail.gmail.com>

Please forward this to anyone you know who might be interested.

>
>
>
> Israel on the Horizon   Summer Experience in Israel for Blind and Visually Impaired Youth   Summer 2012   Ofek Liyladenu Israel National Association of Parents of Blind and Visually Impaired Children, in conjunction with the Jewish Institute for the Blind in Jerusalem, are planning the first special Israel summer tour program for blind and visually impaired youth, ages 15 to 21. The pilot trip will be for twelve days, combining educational touring throughout the country with outdoor activities and social programs with Israeli youth. The 2012 summer program has reached out to include visually impaired youth from North America, England and Australia.     The Israel experience has always been seen as an essential part of fostering Jewish identity and creating a bond between Jews around the world.  Today, over 300,000 youth, 18 to 26 years old have participated in the Taglit Birthright program, bringing youth from all over the world to Israel for a 10 day educational experience.  Research reflects that this experience is powerful in influencing Jewish identity, a connection to Israel, and solidarity with the Jewish people.   Where Israel once received high ratings as inaccessible to people with disabilities, today the Ministry of Tourism has made great efforts to make tourism more accessible to those with disabilities and tourist companies have sprung up offering accessibe tourism for all ages.    Potential highlights of the trip include: •    Jerusalem’s Old and New cities, including the Western Wall and Jerusalem’s unique markets •     Climbing Masada and swimming in the Dead Sea  • Visit to Bedouin tent and discussion of minorities in Israel  • Neot Kedomim, the biblical landscape reserve  • Sports including goal ball, tandem biking, horseback riding and swimming  •     Meetings with individuals and organizations involved in issues of disability rights in Israel, including Members of Knesset  •  Visit to Israel Defense Force base for a briefing and army experience.  We hope you’ll join us and tell your friends about the program.   For more information, and pre-registration contact:   Bob Fenton: bfenton at actcom.co.il
>>
>> Ofek Liyladenu  www.ofek-liyladenu.org.il Jewish Institute for the Blind
>>
>> ******************
>>
>>
>> Ofek Liyladenu – Israel National Association of Parents of Blind and Visually Impaired Children
>> Spring 2012
>>
>> Ofek Liyladenu – Israel National Association of Parents of Blind and Visually Impaired Children is an organization that advocates for the needs of the 3,000 blind and visually impaired children in Israel. Established in 1997 by Guila Seidel, whose daughter Nellie was born blind, we provide a friendly supportive network for families, offer updated information, and initiate and implement innovative projects to maximize the integration of our children into mainstream society. In addition to building a warm caring community for families and children, our wide range of activities benefit 20,000 visually impaired and blind adults throughout the country and promote awareness of the needs and rights of the blind among the general public in Israel. The organization is operated by volunteers and two part-time staff members.
>>
>> Main Activities of Ofek Liyladenu (Our Children’s Horizon) include:
>>
>> Advocacy: Promoting solutions to the needs of our children and others with disabilities through advocacy in government and the Knesset. We hold individual meeting with Members of Knesset, Knesset committees, the Ministry of Education, the Ministry of Welfare and the National Insurance Institute. This year, in conjunction with B’zchut – Israel Human Rights Center for People with Disabilities, we petitioned the High Court demanding that all educational materials, including matriculation exams, be made accessible in Braille, large print and audio format.
>>
>> Public Education and Awareness: “Seeing It Differently” is a project where blind youth lead an experiential workshop for non-visually impaired audiences through which they can convey the everyday challenges of being blind. In addition, the chairperson of Ofek and parent volunteers devote time to media appearances and meet regularly with medical students, parents from kindergartens for the visually impaired, teachers and other groups. Our annual conference is a platform for sharing new ideas and knowledge with parents and professionals and serves to promote awareness among the general public.
>>
>> Supporting Parents:  Parent volunteers provide practical advice, support and encouragement to other parents of blind children, thus building a warm, supportive network for families. In addition, parent groups, a hotline, e-letter, bi-annual magazine and a website are all part of our wide support network, providing up-to-date information, referrals and advice. Family gatherings held throughout the year give parents and siblings a safe caring environment in which to meet other families that cope with similar challenges.
>>
>> Special Programs: “Work on the Horizon”, a summer work program for high school youth, empowers and prepares youth for integration into the workforce and educates employers to the potential of the visually impaired. Our Electronic Library (the first in Israel) provides online content including newspapers, magazines and books, which can be read in text to voice format or Braille.  Special workshops for adolescent girls deal with the specific challenges of their age group. “Musical Dreams” offers subsidized music lessons to children and youth throughout the country; home tutoring provides extra educational support. The Fund for Special Equipment subsidizes essential educational and medical equipment.
>>
>>
>>
>> “Ofek Liyladenu is a family of families, providing every parent with the support and tools needed to raise independent children that can integrate into the mainstream of society. We insure that no one is left alone to cope with the complex challenges of raising a visually impaired child in Israeli society.”
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.927 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/4273 - Release Date: 03/15/12 15:34:00


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 17 22:23:04 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 16:23:04 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
In-Reply-To: <6C8A7F330D5644AEA26057E96B27ECD3@stanford.edu>
References: <CAO83KOvgO+AFDU+Nmcb9+3E-Guxh1zx-pqFKSoHuxRkR_qk6RA@mail.gmail.com>
	<B7E9FADF-84EC-4DDF-8291-654B45354135@gmail.com>
	<6C8A7F330D5644AEA26057E96B27ECD3@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDZNN=8ZtpfPo3J5PL0vSUicQoAx8xyseLwqXmraoRkgw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Joshua,
I have gotten Firefox crash reports before. There is an optional
checkbox that, if you will check it, will send a message automatically
to Firefox about the crash. You don't have to email them because the
email address is already built-in to the crash reporter, so you can
just check the box and then click either "restart Firefox" or "quit
Firefox". However, I don't think it's really necessary to tell Firefox
about the crash; I'm not sure it really does anything. So you can just
ignore it and click "restart Firefox" to move on. Sometimes even after
it crashes, Firefox remembers where you were and will take you back to
that website. Now if Firefox is crashing repeatedly or every time you
go to a particular site, that's a whole other story.
Arielle

On 3/17/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Sometimes that is a viable options, and sometimes it is not. I am still
> using Windows XP, which does not support IE 9. Therefore, there are a few
> websites with HTML functionality that I have to use in Firefox. Also, IE
> does not have web visum where as Firefox does.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Franks" <franks.jonathan13 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 1:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
>
>
>> Use Internet explorer
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 17, 2012, at 1:51 PM, Joshua Lester
>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> I just discovered, that Firefox has crashed!
>>> What am I to do?
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/franks.jonathan13%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From jty727 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 17 22:30:39 2012
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 18:30:39 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJACbtrfycs5A80mhKo3Lm1jOKyBf0H-Z4dG0sqHRu8KHA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+3U9s7M3aZySPy1O2J5Nh_s79n4Ryaz+WE77aRzXMidXMC8dg@mail.gmail.com>
	<7060085A4BF04A438107268D5E1A185D@OwnerPC>
	<CA+3U9s4KLgLh5V9UkiPk-NhvBWvqvK7-c_nPMAaUURdqA51W3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgOkfUQRusMF4F1xzZLw_FJ-hMz53JJ5bJMExvQYN95QgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJOM=2EB5vjkEg0SLojdiJYOT+VzFf5kCJ-peAafqNVm+AeMQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJAsw879Pi3Y0KMUaK1Ti5NtMtO4nnUGVqep=Zyg8cEYGQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<3BFE0E50CAFB49A7BF23F4D51E095A94@Gloria>
	<CA+3U9s7GsDJjmTGQGZxKAj28bYjwhW4mCUf27aHn8YjqVPmxRw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABne5bHPWRW0taRA0i_mC4x1wX9x46HeMtFyRa7RGu-EhbPYBg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJACbtrfycs5A80mhKo3Lm1jOKyBf0H-Z4dG0sqHRu8KHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s7w5t1T42dGy5L0PEP-N08h+xQ5_r9KFN58C9s9yGGQHA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks I'll keep that in mind=)

On 3/17/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, if you buy an N82 you can take it to At&T to get it activated. At
> least with T-mobile, you can transfer your phone number by putting the
> Sim card from your old phone into your new one.
> Arielle
>
> On 3/14/12, will lindsay <will.lindsay1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> the verizon haven is great and you will just need to have someone turn
>> on the accessibility.  Of course the I phone would be great however I
>> am still selling my Brand NEW KNFB mobile reader.  Please contact me
>> directly regarding the KNFB mobile reader as I don't want to thumb
>> many emails to respond to someone.  My name is Lindsay and I can
>> reached at 443.415.9828
>>
>> On 3/14/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hey Again,
>>>
>>> So, I have a question.  Now, if I were to buy a phone off line along
>>> with accessible technology to goe with it how could I get the phone
>>> service?  Would I just bring the phone to whoever provides the service
>>> and they hook it up?  I am looking into the Nokia n82 & possibly AT&T,
>>> but before I actually did it I wanted to ask again since I don't know.
>>>
>>> Thanks as always for all your help with my many questions=)
>>>
>>> On 3/12/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I just wanted to let you guys know if you haven't already heard there is
>>>> a
>>>> refreshable braille display tha tyou can purchase and get info about
>>>> from
>>>> the American Printing House for the blind (APH) that will work with all
>>>> apple products like the I-phone and I-pad. It is about eight hundred
>>>> dollars
>>>> but is very helpful from what I have seen.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 5:01 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I forget if I mentioned this earlier, but Mike Hingson sells the KNFB
>>>>> Reader Mobile and he might still be able to sell you a Nokia phone
>>>>> with Talks or MobileSpeak but without the KNFB Reader software. If you
>>>>> google Michael Hingson he has a company webpage with contact info.
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/9/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> if anyone needs help with iOS, let me know. Love my iTouch and iPhone,
>>>>>> :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/6/12, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Justin,
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, most smart phones these days feature a touch screen,
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> you might have to get used to that interface if you want something
>>>>>>> more sophisticated than the Haven. I currently have a Nokia Symbian
>>>>>>> phone with Mobile Speaks, which is a third-party screen reader, but
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> you might have heard Nokia has discontinued that line of products.
>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>> not a big fan of touch screens either but have resigned myself to the
>>>>>>> fact that I will have to get an Iphone at some point in the future--
>>>>>>> While it does come with a steep learning curve, I know plenty of
>>>>>>> blind
>>>>>>> people who love their Apple devices and am confident that you can
>>>>>>> master the technique too with some practice. Just my thoughts!
>>>>>>> Katie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/6/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> This is the phone I currently have.  When I tried to upgrade they
>>>>>>>> didn't really have much to offer in this regard.  So, I kept my
>>>>>>>> Haven
>>>>>>>> because it was the best one I was familiar with.  I tried the touch
>>>>>>>> screen thing, but became a bit frustrated with it.  So, I'm curious
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> there are any suggestions out there.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/6/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> which cell carrier are you using?
>>>>>>>>> The Haven from verizon is a  talking phone if you use verizon; not
>>>>>>>>> sure
>>>>>>>>> though if the calendar talks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: Justin Young
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:32 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Phones with a fully accessible calender
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi to All!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hope you are all doing well.  I'm not sure if any could answer this
>>>>>>>>> question.  I am looking to possibly in a few months upgrade my
>>>>>>>>> phone.
>>>>>>>>> I am looking for possibilities of anything with an accessible
>>>>>>>>> calender
>>>>>>>>> where you can enter the location of the appointments and is
>>>>>>>>> non-touch
>>>>>>>>> screen.  I tried that once and it didn't really work for me.  Any
>>>>>>>>> suggestions you could offer is much appreciated as always!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks in advance:)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Justin
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Sent via gmail.com
>>>>>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>>>> Skype: joshgregory93
>>>>>>  twitter: JoshG93
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/will.lindsay1%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> "...given proper training and opportunity, the average blind person
>> can do the average job in the average place of business and do it as
>> well as his or her sighted neighbor..." Freedom for the Blind, James
>> H. Omvig
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Mar 18 00:59:17 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 19:59:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
In-Reply-To: <65BD04FEFB0E4D38B258181FF1E37B0C@stanford.edu>
References: <CAO83KOvgO+AFDU+Nmcb9+3E-Guxh1zx-pqFKSoHuxRkR_qk6RA@mail.gmail.com>
	<7642B62AD2324B71AFCC7ACF63917DC2@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOv5ewSYiUkGtuopBAXeqScS-EGHZfGoq_+3ES-o2uCdyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6AE6A05F780A4683A12F2F9DEC09E3CE@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOt7jp8aYRG8T0c=SrgNnHV=j5Z+VxWvjjq+hb5GiQsf8Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<65BD04FEFB0E4D38B258181FF1E37B0C@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <auto-000053192253@mailfront3.g2host.com>

Also, JAWS 10 is now about three and a half years old, and isn't 
going to work well with some newer software.

Dave

At 02:46 PM 3/17/2012, you wrote:
>Use JAWS key b or the JAWS cursor to read the dialog correctly. I'm 
>not trying to be rude, but you really need to learn how to use your 
>technology better.
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" 
><jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 12:25 PM
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
>
>
>>I'm using Jaws 10.0.
>>This has happened to me, since yesterday.
>>It says to send them a crash report, so I guessed it was E-mail.
>>Blessings, Joshua
>>
>>On 3/17/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>>You don't send them an email. That is not what the dialog says, as I have
>>>encountered it before. The next time that it happens, I will write it down.
>>>What screen reader are you using?
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 12:09 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
>>>
>>>
>>>>I get this crash reporter dialogue when I'm on a site, telling me to
>>>>send them an E-mail, reporting the crash, but there's no E-mail
>>>>address.
>>>>Thanks, Joshua
>>>>
>>>>On 3/17/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>>>>What you do when any program crashes: Restart it.
>>>>>If you want more help than that, you could be more descriptive.
>>>>>
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 11:51 AM
>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I just discovered, that Firefox has crashed!
>>>>>>What am I to do?
>>>>>>Thanks, Joshua



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sun Mar 18 01:42:58 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2012 20:42:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
In-Reply-To: <auto-000053192253@mailfront3.g2host.com>
References: <CAO83KOvgO+AFDU+Nmcb9+3E-Guxh1zx-pqFKSoHuxRkR_qk6RA@mail.gmail.com>
	<7642B62AD2324B71AFCC7ACF63917DC2@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOv5ewSYiUkGtuopBAXeqScS-EGHZfGoq_+3ES-o2uCdyA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6AE6A05F780A4683A12F2F9DEC09E3CE@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOt7jp8aYRG8T0c=SrgNnHV=j5Z+VxWvjjq+hb5GiQsf8Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<65BD04FEFB0E4D38B258181FF1E37B0C@stanford.edu>
	<auto-000053192253@mailfront3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtvHRaLZVfKPcyJ-SC8TVpUrfvY=UU0Z9++NKyAWUumkQ@mail.gmail.com>

When I get my Del, I'm switching to NVDA.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/17/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> Also, JAWS 10 is now about three and a half years old, and isn't
> going to work well with some newer software.
>
> Dave
>
> At 02:46 PM 3/17/2012, you wrote:
>>Use JAWS key b or the JAWS cursor to read the dialog correctly. I'm
>>not trying to be rude, but you really need to learn how to use your
>>technology better.
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester"
>><jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 12:25 PM
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
>>
>>
>>>I'm using Jaws 10.0.
>>>This has happened to me, since yesterday.
>>>It says to send them a crash report, so I guessed it was E-mail.
>>>Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>>On 3/17/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>>>You don't send them an email. That is not what the dialog says, as I have
>>>>encountered it before. The next time that it happens, I will write it
>>>> down.
>>>>What screen reader are you using?
>>>>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 12:09 PM
>>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I get this crash reporter dialogue when I'm on a site, telling me to
>>>>>send them an E-mail, reporting the crash, but there's no E-mail
>>>>>address.
>>>>>Thanks, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>>On 3/17/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>What you do when any program crashes: Restart it.
>>>>>>If you want more help than that, you could be more descriptive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>Sent: Saturday, March 17, 2012 11:51 AM
>>>>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Problem with Firefox!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I just discovered, that Firefox has crashed!
>>>>>>>What am I to do?
>>>>>>>Thanks, Joshua
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Mar 18 17:19:31 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2012 13:19:31 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] From the NABS Membership Committee: Calling all
	Athletes!
Message-ID: <4f66192b.d321e00a.4547.ffffc80b@mx.google.com>

Liz and Membership Committee,

Great topic!! Do you guys know when the conference call will be 
held yet?

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Liz Bottner <liziswhatis at hotmail.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 18:56:43 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] From the NABS Membership Committee: Calling all 
Athletes!

Calling All Athletes:

    The NABS Membership Committee is sponsoring a conference call 
for March
on the topic of sports and recreation opportunities for people 
who are blind
and low vision.  This is where you, the membership, come in.  If 
you play any
type of sport geared toward the blind and would be interested in 
sharing
your experiences as a guest speaker on the call, we want to hear 
from you!
All interested persons please send an e-mail expressing interest 
to
nabs.membership at gmail.com with the subject "NABS Sports 
Conference Call".



Thank you, and we hope that everyone's semesters are going well.



Your NABS Membership Committee



Liz Bottner

Guiding Eyes Graduate Council

GEB Voicemail:  800-942-0149 Ext.  2531

e-mail:

 <mailto:liziswhatis at hotmail.com> liziswhatis at hotmail.com

Visit my LiveJournal:

 <http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com/
http://unsilenceddream.livejournal.com

Follow me on Twitter:

http://twitter.com/lizbot



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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Mar 18 17:19:33 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2012 13:19:33 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] fw: Humanware proudly welcomes David Waggener
Message-ID: <4f66192e.d321e00a.4547.ffffc80f@mx.google.com>

FYI:

 ---- Original Message ------
From: HumanWare <marcom at humanware.com
Subject: HumanWare proudly welcomes David Waggener
Date sent: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 08:57:14 -0400

HumanWare proudly welcomes David Waggener

HumanWare proudly welcomes David Waggener as the new South 
Eastern Sales
manager for blindness products in the South Eastern US territory.
												David brings 
his experience 
having worked 
in the 
educational
sector from the past.  After spending 5 years in the Outdoor 
Industry,
												David helped 
pioneer the use 
of eBooks in 
higher 
education
and how they fit in a learning environment.  After 10 years in 
the library
industry, he was ready to start a new challenge that still had an
educational aspect to it.

Since January, David has enjoyed leaning all about assistive 
technology
and how it can change lives
very happy to start learning braille.  Those that have already 
had the
pleasure to meet him enjoy his
outgoing personality and he looks forward to meeting more all of 
the
great people in his territory.

David can be reached by calling 800-722-3393 Ext 261 or emailing 
him at
David.Waggener at humanware.com
mailto:David.Waggener at humanware.com
Unsubscribe from email communications: 
http://visit.humanware.com/unsubscribe/u/3332/d45ff76efa2b26dd4a8
021f4cc94cbe8/388465318




From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Mar 18 18:11:18 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2012 14:11:18 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring
Message-ID: <4f66254f.81cde00a.1f49.ffffd6c5@mx.google.com>

Hi Ashley,

Cool! I have one of her books, and it is great.  I might order 
Touch the Stars from NBP for when we study the stars.

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 18:26:54 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Chris,
Yes; its by Noreen Grice and I found the book.  Its published by 
national
braille press.
If you are curious about stars or you are in a class such as 
astronomy that
requires this knowledge, I recommend it.  It even gives you 
directions as to
how to explore the diagram.  It says stuff like"the big dipper is 
the shape
of a drinking gourd.  Trace your fingers around the top part and 
feel the
three stars up top."

Ashley


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 5:58 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Thanks, Ashley! I think you are referring to the series of books
by Noreen Grice.  I have "Touch the Universe," and I believe it
was from NBP.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 22:25:23 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Chris,
Geometry and astronomy are interesting.  Geometry has some real
world problem
solving applications.
I didn't like it but somehow got through it.  I'm not an abstract
thinker.
I remember how you compare shapes and figure out the missing
angle number
and things like that.  The problem solving and critical thinking
skills carry
over to other subjects though.

For astronomy, well I did not take that in high school; Virginia
doesn't
require that; we take different sciences.

But I suggest getting tactile diagrams of the stars and galaxies.
I think
NASA or National braille press has some books.  One is called
Touch the
stars.
I think if your vi teacher explains diagrams and what the lines
represent
and labels them, it will make more sense.
Some concepts though are better illustrated in a 3 d thing; so
you could
make a model for those situations.

Ashley

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 8:17 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Oh good; I'm not the only one who doesn't get anything out of
tactile graphics, especially the 1st or 2nd time I look at them!
I really don't like tactile graphics, and try to avoid them if
possible.  But we're doing geometry in math and astronomy in
science, both of which are very visual units which require a lot
of tactile graphics.  However, I might get a break from the
constant
diagrams in science, as we're switching to geology to get ready
for our state standardized test, the Maryland School Assessment
(MSA.)

Chris
Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

----- Original Message -----
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 10 Mar 2012 14:55:35 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Hi Vejas,
I'm not very good spatially either, and I usually didn't get much
out
of tactile diagrams.  I do think attempting to understand tactile
diagrams is a good way to try to improve your spatial skills.
But if
you don't find them useful for learning the concepts, then see if
you
can get verbal descriptions instead.  I also found in my
experience
that knowing what things look like (like the shape of cells etc.)
is
not super-important for understanding the functional concepts you
are
learning about.
You could talk to your guidance counselor to find out if there is
any
free tutoring available at your school.  I'm sure you are not the
only
student having difficulty following science concepts.  If your
school
has an honor society for seniors, some of their members might be
available to tutor you for free or for a small fee if your
parents are
willing and able to pay them.  I tutored a few chem students when
I was
in high school.
A good tutor (sighted or blind) should be able to figure out how
to
best explain the ideas to you.
Arielle

On 3/8/12, vejas <brlsurfer at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I'm just not very good spacially.  Also some of the diagrams
have
lots of abbreviations and I find myself looking at the key a
lot,
so it's tricky to study the diagram when you're not sure what it
stands for.
But next science chapter, I'm going to pay lots more attention
to
the diagrams.
Vejas


  ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 21:52:15 -0800
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring

Some diagrams can help and others don't.  If a diagram is too
cluttered, then
it is no good.  Can you explain more about why diagrams don't
help you?

----- Original Message -----
From: "vejas" <brlsurfer at gmail.com
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>; <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 9:14 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] a question about science and tutoring


  Hi,
  I'm having some trouble in science.  It's biology and genetics.
My
  teacher is OK, I guess.
  Does it help you to look at diagrams? Usually it doesn't help
me, so I
  don't bother to look at them because when I have, they have not
helped.
  Have diagrams ever helped you, because my science teachers
loves
the way
  diagrams explain stuff? Have you ever needed tutoring? How was
a
sighter
  person able to help you, because it's sometimes hard to explain
stuff you
  need? I have a test tomorrow.
  Thanks for any input.
  Vejas

  _______________________________________________
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun Mar 18 18:11:16 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2012 14:11:16 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] podcasts and college courses survey link again
Message-ID: <4f66254c.81cde00a.1f49.ffffd6c2@mx.google.com>

Hi Humberto,

Ah, the joys of Keymail! * Smile! It's a long URL, so I was 
trying to paste the URL then change the grade of the block (using 
block commands menu) to Computer Braille.  But it still turned 
out weird! I've been trying to help Kimarie, the person who is 
doing this survey, circulate it to the NFB student divisions, but 
nobody can click on the link.  So I'm just going to suggest that 
she join the NABS list and post the announcement from her email 
account.

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Humberto Avila" <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 15:19:31 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] podcasts and college courses survey link 
again

Hello Chris,

It makes things very confusing because your Braille note seems to 
interpret
the URL address in the wrong manner.  Are you trying to type this 
in grade 2
Braille? If so, are you using the appropriate computer Braille 
code signs
for initiation and finalization of computer Braille code, like 
dots 4-5-6,
and then an ING sign for start computer braile, and then dots 
4-5-6, then wh
sign for end computer Braille? Or how are you doing this.  It 
seems to handle
it differently.

You can try, if you want this link to work, different things.  
You can use
computer Braille just as a whole altogether in your email 
message, or, you
can just send your message with the correct link and format from 
your
computer and/or your webmail for gMail.  How the heck are readers 
of the
message supposed to click on a link of a URL that has a bunch of 
Braille
note coded junk? <smile!


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 2:59 PM
To: NFB NABS list; MDABS List
Subject: [nabs-l] podcasts and college courses survey link again

Hello everyone,

Well, it appears the "correction" email I sent out last Sunday
didn't correct anything at all; rather, it confused things even
more! Let's try it again.  Here is the link to the survey on the
uses and accessibility of podcasts in college courses:
HTTP3$U4SURVEYGIZMO4COM/S#C/GBECEG/,CURR5T-,USES-&-,A3ESSIBILI
  TY-(-,PODCA/S-IN-,ONL9E-,COLLEGE-,C\RSES

?I hope this works! Sorry for all the confusion!

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

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From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Mar 18 20:51:04 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2012 15:51:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Updated California Chemistry Camp Program Announcement
Message-ID: <auto-000053244218@mailfront3.g2host.com>

I have been asked to circulate this.  I am told 
they are seeking applications for students outside of California.

Dave




>
>Hello,
>
>Please distribute this far and wide. It’s the 
>new chemistry camp program announcement with the later application due date.
>Dave, please send this to the NFB Master List as 
>we’re accepting students from outside California as well.
>Many thanks,
>-- Hoby Wedler
>
>Chemistry Camp Coordinator
>
>Announcing the 2012 California Chemistry Camp!
>
>
>
>Would you like to learn how blind people tackle 
>the very visual subject of organic chemistry 
>successfully? Do you have a general love for 
>science? Do you want to learn how you can do 
>chemistry as a blind person just as successfully 
>as your sighted peers? Do you want to apply the 
>chemistry you learned to food such as olive oil? 
>Are you interested in how blind professionals 
>use science in their careers every day? Then the 
>2012 California Chemistry Camp is for you!
>
>Come join the National Federation of the Blind 
>of California, the California Association of 
>Blind Students, the Lighthouse for the Blind of 
>San Francisco, the University of California, 
>Davis chemistry department, TPG Capital, and up 
>to fifteen blind and low-vision high school 
>students for an Educational, exciting, and Fun-Filled weekend of science!
>
>There's still time to apply for the 2012 California Chemistry Camp!
>The new application deadline is April 5, 2012.
>
>To see more about the camp and apply online,
>go to:
><http://www.sixdots.org>www.sixdots.org
>and follow the link to the application!
>We hope to see you in Northern California in a 
>little more than a month! This should be a life-changing experience!
>
>Yours sincerely,
>
>-- Henry (Hoby) Wedler
>Chemistry Camp Coordinator
>

From adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com  Mon Mar 19 15:47:59 2012
From: adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com (Andi)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 11:47:59 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
In-Reply-To: <9317FE738AC943F790C9EF53D36D9FBC@stanford.edu>
References: <75ADFE82D4DE4F238EABD060241E2917@OwnerPC><145487BFCB364433AFD12C2C27163DF8@stanford.edu><27EFEFB8C5274087BE593FAA283EC16B@OwnerPC>
	<9317FE738AC943F790C9EF53D36D9FBC@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <4F6FB693410E4916BBEB3DFFC3530CE3@OwnerPC>

I have used the tactual drawing cites and you do have to draw backwards but 
there are different kinds and the one I used had several different kinds of 
lines with different traipsing wheels and plates with different textures you 
put under the paper and rubbed with a smoothed tool to make the texture on 
the paper.  It also had these things that looked like tongs with different 
simples like arrows circles, triangles, and so on that you used a stamper to 
put the symbols on the paper.  It worked very well as it had so many options 
for different textures to make the picture or graph more accurate.  But I 
had trouble drawing backwards.  Also I can not find this kit I have looked 
for it on line and do not know who makes it.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:50 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper

Actually, drawing backwards is not that hard. Also, there is a pen looking
tool. You can poke dotes that stick out the back of the paper when it is
facing front ways and then flip it over and connect the dots. There is a
board with holes on the edges and a ruler that locks into the holes so that
you can have a straight edge without having to hold it down.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper


> oh, then that would be a little complex.
> I have not used the tracing wheel; my vi teacher did it a little, but not 
> me alone for classes; as I said  its rather expensive.
>
> Hmm. Maybe I should try this quick draw paper. The price is $32 for a pack 
> of sheets and the markers. It sounds
> like a good thing; simply draw and you get lines that swell for a tactile 
> graphic.
> Also, I'm thinking of buying graphic art tape; my past vi teacher suggests 
> that. If anyone used it, is it useful? I don't know what it would feel 
> like.
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Nicole B. Torcolini at Home
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 9:22 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
>
> You do have to draw backwards. I think that that is the one that I have. I
> don't know what I have anymore as I have added bits and pieces here and
> there, some of which weren't even intended as drawing tools.
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:15 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] diagramming and APH paper
>
>
>> Hi all,
>> Has anyone used the tactile graphics kits from APH? They are kind of 
>> expensive; the tactile starter kit is $64. and the other kits are over 
>> $100.
>> But they sound useful.
>> I wonder if you have to draw backwards with that tracing wheel.
>>
>> Also, has anyone used the quick draw paper from APH? If so, what is your 
>> experience? You draw on that paper and the water markers they supply with 
>> it dry and swell which make raised lines. How raised? Like the size of 
>> the piaf machine lines? Also what do the lines feel like? Does it take 
>> long to dry?
>> I was wondering how good this idea would be. Sounds like a great solution 
>> if its not messy.
>>
>> Thanks
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From whetstonekjw at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 19 16:45:35 2012
From: whetstonekjw at yahoo.com (Kimarie Whetstone)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 09:45:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [nabs-l] Your help is needed
In-Reply-To: <4f66254c.81cde00a.1f49.ffffd6c2@mx.google.com>
References: <4f66254c.81cde00a.1f49.ffffd6c2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1332175535.85187.YahooMailNeo@web121504.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

Dear students,
I am conducting a study on the current uses and accessibility of podcasts in online college courses. The current uses of audio podcasts and the accessibility of audio podcasts in U.S. online college courses as perceived by learners with vision loss is unknown. For that reason, we are requesting that you please take our survey to share your perspective. A link to the online survey on Survey Gizmo is below. The survey will take approximately 15 minutes to complete and will be anonymous.
http://edu.surveygizmo.com/s3/725357/Current-Uses-and-Accessibility-of-Podcasts-in-Online-College-Courses
Please pass this announcement on to any blind college students that you know. Please forward to other student lists you are on.
Thank you.
Kimarie Whetstone
Doctoral Student
whetstonekjw at yahoo.com

From whetstonekjw at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 19 16:53:38 2012
From: whetstonekjw at yahoo.com (Kimarie Whetstone)
Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 09:53:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [nabs-l] Podcasts and college courses survey link again
In-Reply-To: <4f66254c.81cde00a.1f49.ffffd6c2@mx.google.com>
References: <4f66254c.81cde00a.1f49.ffffd6c2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1332176018.24500.YahooMailNeo@web121503.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>

A very big thank you to Chris who worked so diligently to help me get the link to my survey out to the list. I just sent the link out to everyone in a separate email.
 
Thank you again for your help.
 
http://edu.surveygizmo.com/s3/725357/Current-Uses-and-Accessibility-of-Podcasts-in-Online-College-Courses

Kimarie Whetstone


>________________________________
> From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> 
>Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 2:11 PM
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] podcasts and college courses survey link again
>  
>Hi Humberto,
>
>Ah, the joys of Keymail! * Smile! It's a long URL, so I was trying to paste the URL then change the grade of the block (using block commands menu) to Computer Braille.  But it still turned out weird! I've been trying to help Kimarie, the person who is doing this survey, circulate it to the NFB student divisions, but nobody can click on the link.  So I'm just going to suggest that she join the NABS list and post the announcement from her email account.
>
>Chris Nusbaum
>Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
>"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical nuisance."
>-- Kenneth Jernigan
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Humberto Avila" <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com
>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 15:19:31 -0700
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] podcasts and college courses survey link again
>
>Hello Chris,
>
>It makes things very confusing because your Braille note seems to interpret
>the URL address in the wrong manner.  Are you trying to type this in grade 2
>Braille? If so, are you using the appropriate computer Braille code signs
>for initiation and finalization of computer Braille code, like dots 4-5-6,
>and then an ING sign for start computer braile, and then dots 4-5-6, then wh
>sign for end computer Braille? Or how are you doing this.  It seems to handle
>it differently.
>
>You can try, if you want this link to work, different things.  You can use
>computer Braille just as a whole altogether in your email message, or, you
>can just send your message with the correct link and format from your
>computer and/or your webmail for gMail.  How the heck are readers of the
>message supposed to click on a link of a URL that has a bunch of Braille
>note coded junk? <smile!
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Chris Nusbaum
>Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 2:59 PM
>To: NFB NABS list; MDABS List
>Subject: [nabs-l] podcasts and college courses survey link again
>
>Hello everyone,
>
>Well, it appears the "correction" email I sent out last Sunday
>didn't correct anything at all; rather, it confused things even
>more! Let's try it again.  Here is the link to the survey on the
>uses and accessibility of podcasts in college courses:
>HTTP3$U4SURVEYGIZMO4COM/S#C/GBECEG/,CURR5T-,USES-&-,A3ESSIBILI
>TY-(-,PODCA/S-IN-,ONL9E-,COLLEGE-,C\RSES
>
>?I hope this works! Sorry for all the confusion!
>
>Chris Nusbaum
>Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
>"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>nuisance."
>-- Kenneth Jernigan
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.hu
>mberto2%40g
>mail.com
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>m%40gmail.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/whetstonekjw%40yahoo.com
>
>
>   

From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue Mar 20 23:01:24 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:01:24 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Your help is needed
Message-ID: <4f690c4e.47d5e00a.1d08.ffffeaa8@mx.google.com>

Hi Kimarie,

Thank you for posting this! I'm sorry I wasn't able to get my 
posting of it to work.  Just an add-on to the announcement: 
please also pass this announcement on to your state student 
division lists.  By the way, for Kimarie, I see you subscribed 
and posted this to the MDABS list.  Just so you know, that list 
is the list for the Maryland Association of Blind Students, which 
is the Maryland student division.  I'm not sure where you live, 
but I'm just letting you know this so you know why you
might be getting emails about things going on in Maryland, which 
may not apply to you.

Thanks,

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Kimarie Whetstone <whetstonekjw at yahoo.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,"mdabs at nfbnet.org" <mdabs at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 09:45:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [nabs-l] Your help is needed

Dear students,
I am conducting a study on the current uses and accessibility of 
podcasts in online college courses.  The current uses of audio 
podcasts and the accessibility of audio podcasts in U.S.  online 
college courses as perceived by learners with vision loss is 
unknown.  For that reason, we are requesting that you please take 
our survey to share your perspective.  A link to the online 
survey on Survey Gizmo is below.  The survey will take 
approximately 15 minutes to complete and will be anonymous.
http://edu.surveygizmo.com/s3/725357/Current-Uses-and-Accessibili
ty-of-Podcasts-in-Online-College-Courses
Please pass this announcement on to any blind college students 
that you know.  Please forward to other student lists you are on.
Thank you.
Kimarie Whetstone
Doctoral Student
whetstonekjw at yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue Mar 20 23:01:27 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 19:01:27 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Podcasts and college courses survey link again
Message-ID: <4f690c51.47d5e00a.1d08.ffffeaab@mx.google.com>

Thank=20you,=20Kimarie!=20Well,=20I=20gave=20it=20the=20old=20college=20try=
!=20*=20Smile!

Chris=20Nusbaum
Email=20and=20Google=20Talk/Keychat=20(on=20the=20BrailleNote)=20ID:=20
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype:=20christpher.nusbaum3=20or=20search=20for=20Chris=20Nusbaum

"The=20real=20problem=20of=20blindness=20is=20not=20the=20loss=20of=20eyesi=
ght.=20=20The=20
real=20problem=20is=20the=20misunderstanding=20and=20lack=20of=20education=
=20that=20
exists.=20=20If=20a=20blind=20person=20has=20the=20proper=20training=20and=
=20
opportunity,=20blindness=20can=20be=20reduced=20to=20a=20mere=20physical=20=

nuisance."
--=20Kenneth=20Jernigan

=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20Kimarie=20Whetstone=20<whetstonekjw at yahoo.com
To:=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list=20
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,"mdabs at nfbnet.org"=20<mdabs at nfbnet.org
Date=20sent:=20Mon,=2019=20Mar=202012=2009:53:38=20-0700=20(PDT)
Subject:=20[nabs-l]=20Podcasts=20and=20college=20courses=20survey=20link=20=
again

A=20very=20big=20thank=20you=20to=20Chris=20who=20worked=20so=20diligently=
=20to=20help=20me=20
get=20the=20link=20to=20my=20survey=20out=20to=20the=20list.=20=20I=20just=
=20sent=20the=20link=20
out=20to=20everyone=A0in=20a=20separate=20email.
=A0
Thank=20you=20again=20for=20your=20help.
=A0
http://edu.surveygizmo.com/s3/725357/Current-Uses-and-Accessibili
ty-of-Podcasts-in-Online-College-Courses

Kimarie=20Whetstone


________________________________
=20From:=20Chris=20Nusbaum=20<dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To:=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list=20
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent:=20Sunday,=20March=2018,=202012=202:11=20PM
Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20podcasts=20and=20college=20courses=20survey=20l=
ink=20
again

Hi=20Humberto,

Ah,=20the=20joys=20of=20Keymail!=20*=20Smile!=20It's=20a=20long=20URL,=20so=
=20I=20was=20
trying=20to=20paste=20the=20URL=20then=20change=20the=20grade=20of=20the=20=
block=20(using=20
block=20commands=20menu)=20to=20Computer=20Braille.=A0=20But=20it=20still=20=
turned=20
out=20weird!=20I've=20been=20trying=20to=20help=20Kimarie,=20the=20person=20=
who=20is=20
doing=20this=20survey,=20circulate=20it=20to=20the=20NFB=20student=20divisi=
ons,=20but=20
nobody=20can=20click=20on=20the=20link.=A0=20So=20I'm=20just=20going=20to=20=
suggest=20that=20
she=20join=20the=20NABS=20list=20and=20post=20the=20announcement=20from=20h=
er=20email=20
account.

Chris=20Nusbaum
Email=20and=20Google=20Talk/Keychat=20(on=20the=20BrailleNote)=20ID:=20
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype:=20christpher.nusbaum3=20or=20search=20for=20Chris=20Nusbaum

"The=20real=20problem=20of=20blindness=20is=20not=20the=20loss=20of=20eyesi=
ght.=A0=20The=20
real=20problem=20is=20the=20misunderstanding=20and=20lack=20of=20education=
=20that=20
exists.=A0=20If=20a=20blind=20person=20has=20the=20proper=20training=20and=
=20
opportunity,=20blindness=20can=20be=20reduced=20to=20a=20mere=20physical=20=

nuisance."
--=20Kenneth=20Jernigan

-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20"Humberto=20Avila"=20<avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com
To:=20"'National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list'"=20=

<nabs-l at nfbnet..org
Date=20sent:=20Fri,=2016=20Mar=202012=2015:19:31=20-0700
Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20podcasts=20and=20college=20courses=20survey=20l=
ink=20
again

Hello=20Chris,

It=20makes=20things=20very=20confusing=20because=20your=20Braille=20note=20=
seems=20to=20
interpret
the=20URL=20address=20in=20the=20wrong=20manner.=A0=20Are=20you=20trying=20=
to=20type=20this=20
in=20grade=202
Braille?=20If=20so,=20are=20you=20using=20the=20appropriate=20computer=20Br=
aille=20
code=20signs
for=20initiation=20and=20finalization=20of=20computer=20Braille=20code,=20l=
ike=20
dots=204-5-6,
and=20then=20an=20ING=20sign=20for=20start=20computer=20braile,=20and=20the=
n=20dots=20
4-5-6,=20then=20wh
sign=20for=20end=20computer=20Braille?=20Or=20how=20are=20you=20doing=20thi=
s.=A0=20It=20
seems=20to=20handle
it=20differently.

You=20can=20try,=20if=20you=20want=20this=20link=20to=20work,=20different=20=
things.=A0=20
You=20can=20use
computer=20Braille=20just=20as=20a=20whole=20altogether=20in=20your=20email=
=20
message,=20or,=20you
can=20just=20send=20your=20message=20with=20the=20correct=20link=20and=20fo=
rmat=20from=20
your
computer=20and/or=20your=20webmail=20for=20gMail.=A0=20How=20the=20heck=20a=
re=20readers=20
of=20the
message=20supposed=20to=20click=20on=20a=20link=20of=20a=20URL=20that=20has=
=20a=20bunch=20of=20
Braille
note=20coded=20junk?=20<smile!


-----Original=20Message-----
From:=20nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org=20
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]=20On=20Behalf
Of=20Chris=20Nusbaum
Sent:=20Friday,=20March=2016,=202012=202:59=20PM
To:=20NFB=20NABS=20list;=20MDABS=20List
Subject:=20[nabs-l]=20podcasts=20and=20college=20courses=20survey=20link=20=
again

Hello=20everyone,

Well,=20it=20appears=20the=20"correction"=20email=20I=20sent=20out=20last=20=
Sunday
didn't=20correct=20anything=20at=20all;=20rather,=20it=20confused=20things=
=20even
more!=20Let's=20try=20it=20again.=A0=20Here=20is=20the=20link=20to=20the=20=
survey=20on=20the
uses=20and=20accessibility=20of=20podcasts=20in=20college=20courses:
HTTP3$U4SURVEYGIZMO4COM/S#C/GBECEG/,CURR5T-,USES-&-,A3ESSIBILI
TY-(-,PODCA/S-IN-,ONL9E-,COLLEGE-,C\RSES

?I=20hope=20this=20works!=20Sorry=20for=20all=20the=20confusion!

Chris=20Nusbaum
Email=20and=20Google=20Talk/Keychat=20(on=20the=20BrailleNote)=20ID:
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype:=20christpher.nusbaum3=20or=20search=20for=20Chris=20Nusbaum

"The=20real=20problem=20of=20blindness=20is=20not=20the=20loss=20of=20eyesi=
ght.=A0=20The
real=20problem=20is=20the=20misunderstanding=20and=20lack=20of=20education=
=20that
exists.=A0=20If=20a=20blind=20person=20has=20the=20proper=20training=20and
opportunity,=20blindness=20can=20be=20reduced=20to=20a=20mere=20physical
nuisance."
--=20Kenneth=20Jernigan

_______________________________________________
nabs-l=20mailing=20list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco=
unt=20info=20
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.hu
mberto2%40g
mail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l=20mailing=20list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco=
unt=20info=20
for=20nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l=20mailing=20list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco=
unt=20info=20
for=20nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/whetstonekjw%
40yahoo.com



_______________________________________________
nabs-l=20mailing=20list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco=
unt=20info=20
for=20nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com



From robinmel71 at earthlink.net  Thu Mar 22 21:47:45 2012
From: robinmel71 at earthlink.net (Robin)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:47:45 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>

Hello to everyone,
I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online 
dating and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences 
have you had with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I 
look forward to hearing your stories.


I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. 
Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, 
like a breeze among flowers.
Hellen Keller



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Thu Mar 22 22:12:24 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 17:12:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvknk7hq+g6hBRSEM2+v=2bxF3DNJo9t4sc0vEkLLymgA@mail.gmail.com>

I don't do anything, online.
Why not do things, the old fashioned way, and go places, and meet
people, in person?
Just a suggestion.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Robin <robinmel71 at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hello to everyone,
> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
> dating and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences
> have you had with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I
> look forward to hearing your stories.
>
>
> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
> Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
> like a breeze among flowers.
> Hellen Keller
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Thu Mar 22 22:23:32 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 17:23:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>

Hi,
I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would be very 
careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as they 
appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find that 
there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel that is 
a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a daily 
basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found there 
are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when they are 
confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited person 
for 3 years and things are wonderful.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


> Hello to everyone,
> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online dating 
> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you had 
> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to 
> hearing your stories.
>
>
> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps 
> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze 
> among flowers.
> Hellen Keller
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com 



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Thu Mar 22 22:26:58 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 17:26:58 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>

Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you meet
them, they're a criminal.
Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would be very
> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as they
> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find that
> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel that is
> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a daily
> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found there
> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when they are
> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited person
> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>> Hello to everyone,
>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online dating
>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you had
>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
>> hearing your stories.
>>
>>
>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps
>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze
>>
>> among flowers.
>> Hellen Keller
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 22 23:36:40 2012
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:36:40 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Robin,

Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
(whether online or not).

Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
dating search.

Nimer J

On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you meet
> them, they're a criminal.
> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would be
>> very
>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as they
>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find that
>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel that
>> is
>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a daily
>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found there
>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when they are
>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited person
>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>> Hello to everyone,
>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online dating
>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you had
>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
>>> hearing your stories.
>>>
>>>
>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps
>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>> breeze
>>>
>>> among flowers.
>>> Hellen Keller
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.


From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 22 23:38:21 2012
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:38:21 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>

Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.

Later.

On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Robin,
>
> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
> (whether online or not).
>
> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
> dating search.
>
> Nimer J
>
> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you meet
>> them, they're a criminal.
>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would be
>>> very
>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as they
>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find
>>> that
>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel that
>>> is
>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a daily
>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>> there
>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when they
>>> are
>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>> person
>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online dating
>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you had
>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>> Perhaps
>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>> breeze
>>>>
>>>> among flowers.
>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>


-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.


From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 22 23:38:19 2012
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:38:19 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF2O2Cyah+UV18Q1DG=Q3s8YGetajjFXRk1WAPEM8HrkYZVXPg@mail.gmail.com>

Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.

Later.

On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Robin,
>
> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
> (whether online or not).
>
> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
> dating search.
>
> Nimer J
>
> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you meet
>> them, they're a criminal.
>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would be
>>> very
>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as they
>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find
>>> that
>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel that
>>> is
>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a daily
>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>> there
>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when they
>>> are
>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>> person
>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online dating
>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you had
>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>> Perhaps
>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>> breeze
>>>>
>>>> among flowers.
>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>


-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 00:17:24 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 18:17:24 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
and seeing what happens.
Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
are better catches.
I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
know you before they learn about your blindness.
Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
way to build lasting connections.
Arielle

On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>
> Later.
>
> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Robin,
>>
>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>> (whether online or not).
>>
>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>> dating search.
>>
>> Nimer J
>>
>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you meet
>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would be
>>>> very
>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as they
>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find
>>>> that
>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel that
>>>> is
>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a daily
>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>> there
>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when they
>>>> are
>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>> person
>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online dating
>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you had
>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>>> breeze
>>>>>
>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From dandrews at visi.com  Fri Mar 23 00:33:21 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:33:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] MathFlow 2.0 Released
Message-ID: <auto-000053916695@mailfront3.g2host.com>

--------------------------
MathFlow 2.0 Released
LONG BEACH, Calif. - March 22, 2012 - Design Science today announced the
release of a major upgrade to its MathFlow product line. MathFlow is a
set of components that are widely used to add math editing, display and
accessibility to publishing and editorial systems, elearning and
assessment applications, enterprise solutions and commercial software
products. The technology at the heart of MathFlow is MathML, the XML
standard for representing mathematical notation that is an integral part
of many documentation and accessibility standards, including HTML 5,
EPUB 3, DAISY, DITA, DocBook, NLM, etc.
MathFlow 2.0 adds many new features, including support for MathML 3's
elementary math and line-breaking, the ability to customize its look and
feel to match its host application, 64-bit Windows support, Plane 1
Unicode, STIX fonts, localization, enhancements for geometry,
math-speech, accessibility and more.
"MathML is rapidly becoming essential to elearning system providers, and
publishers of ebooks and other online content. MathFlow 2.0 is a major
step in the evolution of our industry-leading MathML component suite.
Besides providing the best MathML formatting, our support and training
are second to none. There is just no reason for our customers to risk
the success of their publishing and development projects on any other
MathML solution," said Paul R. Topping, Design Science's CEO.
Evaluation software, development licenses, and deployment licenses for
OEM distribution and enterprise solutions are available. More
information is available on the Design Science website,
www.dessci.com.
About Design Science
Founded in 1986 and headquartered in Long Beach, California, Design
Science develops software used by educators, scientists and publishing
professionals, including MathType, Equation Editor in Microsoft Office,
MathFlow and MathPlayer, to communicate on the web and in print. For
more information please visit
www.dessci.com.
###
Bruce Virga -- brucev at dessci.com
EVP of Sales & Business Development, COO

Tel: +1 (562) 432-2920
Fax: +1 (562) 432-2857
Mobile: +1 (949) 233-8212

Design Science, Inc. --
www.dessci.com
140 Pine Avenue, 4th Floor
Long Beach, California 90802 USA

~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, Equation Editor ~



From cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 00:42:39 2012
From: cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com (Ashley)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:42:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,
Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.


On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
> and seeing what happens.
> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
> are better catches.
> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
> know you before they learn about your blindness.
> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
> way to build lasting connections.
> Arielle
>
> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>
>> Later.
>>
>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello Robin,
>>>
>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>> (whether online or not).
>>>
>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>> dating search.
>>>
>>> Nimer J
>>>
>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you meet
>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would be
>>>>> very
>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as they
>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find
>>>>> that
>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>> that
>>>>> is
>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a daily
>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>> there
>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when they
>>>>> are
>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>> person
>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>> dating
>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>
>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>


From oliver.doug1 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 00:54:51 2012
From: oliver.doug1 at gmail.com (Doug Oliver)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net><B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria><CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>

I'm gonna way in on this topic.
My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind people 
growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
We've met in person twice and it's been great.
Take care,
Doug

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


Hello all,
Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.


On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
> and seeing what happens.
> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
> are better catches.
> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
> know you before they learn about your blindness.
> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
> way to build lasting connections.
> Arielle
>
> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>
>> Later.
>>
>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello Robin,
>>>
>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>> (whether online or not).
>>>
>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>> dating search.
>>>
>>> Nimer J
>>>
>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you meet
>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would be
>>>>> very
>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as they
>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find
>>>>> that
>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>> that
>>>>> is
>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a 
>>>>> daily
>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>> there
>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when they
>>>>> are
>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>> person
>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>> dating
>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>
>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 01:28:51 2012
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:28:51 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
Message-ID: <4f6bd1f7.a656b60a.62ad.4a55@mx.google.com>

I'm currently dating a blind man right now that I met at Colorado 
Center for the Blind.  We've been together for nearly two years.  
I'vfe dated online, and I actually found someone who used to be 
on this list, but we fizzled out after two months.  Then, I tried 
Craig's List, not a good choice because I had guys that I wasn't 
sure would fit the bill.  I've dated a sighted guy or two, and 
had a crush on several other sighted guys, but they openly 
rejected me, which bothered me.  The rejections were a result of 
me being the only blind person in the school who wasn't "special 
ed", if you know what I mean.  I honestly was not fitting in at 
the regular ed level as far as ating went.  My parents forbade me 
from dating, and now that I'm with this guy, I'm having culture 
clashes.  For instance, he wants to marry a cousin, which is 
illegal in the United States depending on how close you are with 
the cousins you say you want to marry.  I'm trying to discourage 
the cousin marriage because it's not legal and it could result in 
defective children.  HE has a total defect in his eyes that could 
mean the difference between being single for life and being 
married to someone who might not understand the alternative 
techniques of blindness.  For me, I don't think I see myself with 
anyone else because he understands, but any other Muslim man 
might not support me because of both blindness and a secondary 
mental illness that came about as a result of my parents' fickle 
parenting.  Just my thoughts.
Beth
 ----- Original Message -----
From: Robin <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:47:45 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

Hello to everyone,
I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
dating and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences
have you had with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I
look forward to hearing your stories.


I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is 
vague,
like a breeze among flowers.
Hellen Keller


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
se%40gmail.com


From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 01:28:53 2012
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:28:53 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
Message-ID: <4f6bd1fb.a656b60a.62ad.4a56@mx.google.com>

My bf's from Somalia, but he came to Denver when I got there too.  
Actually, I got there a month or so after he did.  We share a 
faith in common, but he ... ok, let's see: he hates music, 
popcorn, movies, and books.  How could I possibly date somebody 
who hates music, movies, popcorn, and going out and books?  How 
could anybody hate books?  I don't mind the Qur'an, but still.  I 
think books are important sources of info.  Whether the book is 
religious or not, I read it.  It's a book, I will read it.
My online experiences are weird.  I was forbidden to talk to 
anyone online because of overprotective parents, something I said 
before.
Beth
 ----- Original Message -----
From: Ashley <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:42:39 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

Hello all,
Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my 
own
experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. 
As a
matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and 
he
is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, 
and I
have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that 
some of
what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good 
and
bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we 
actually
got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families 
were
present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
being long distance, and it was the only way the two families 
could
meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that 
was
a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it 
was
hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind 
person
besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also 
met
sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating 
sites. I
met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my 
opinion,
that's better because you're actually meeting people you have 
things
in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like 
most
people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you 
share in
common with the other person. I personally have never dated a 
sighted
person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore 
it
really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most 
of
these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, 
and
basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already 
said,
I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person 
from a
blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
considering they go through some of the same things. But on the 
other
side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't 
completely
adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family 
their
entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue 
such
as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people 
can
have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how 
to
handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.


On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi all,
 I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I 
was on
 a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but 
didn't
 find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
 friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard 
the
 whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous 
first
 dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's 
blindness was
 revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do 
find
 someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a 
public
 place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a 
profile up
 and seeing what happens.
 Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
 Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting 
my
 sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid 
sites.
 I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it 
and
 said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more 
attractive
 and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible 
the
 people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and 
hence
 are better catches.
 I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness 
during
 an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their 
profiles,
 others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it 
at some
 point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview 
and
 reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but 
before
 we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out 
when
 they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can 
happen at
 any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you 
would
 prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to 
get to
 know you before they learn about your blindness.
 Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I 
have done
 both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind 
person
 or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of 
thinking.
 I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt 
the
 same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were 
blind. I
 will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship 
was
 easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about 
what
 nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret 
my
 nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the 
relationship I
 have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years 
with the
 other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't 
think
 of any major differences. I do think that regardless of 
blindness
 status, it's important for you and your partner to share 
interests and
 passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of 
us
 share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, 
there
 are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
 around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those 
passions
 with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
 deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, 
I
 think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
 common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard 
to
 meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like 
singles'
 parties. But if you can find communities of people that share 
your
 interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student 
division,
 classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much 
better
 way to build lasting connections.
 Arielle

 On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention 
simply for
 the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things 
like
 that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with 
general
 sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc 
etc
 to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.

 Later.

 On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> 
wrote:
 Hello Robin,

 Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and 
learn
 from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for 
others.
 As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. 
Not
 dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool 
and
 more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your 
options,
 just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of 
being
 rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind 
people
 have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
 blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to 
necessarily
 feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, 
etc
 etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many 
questions.
 Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
 educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are 
willing
 to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why 
not
 just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
 status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences 
that
 are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
 (whether online or not).

 Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with 
your
 dating search.

 Nimer J

 On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> 
wrote:
 Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, 
that
 pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when 
you meet
 them, they're a criminal.
 Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
 Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh 
yes,
 there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I 
would be
 very
 careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming 
as they
 appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and 
find
 that
 there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I 
feel
 that
 is
 a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on 
a daily
 basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have 
found
 there
 are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially 
when they
 are
 confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a 
sited
 person
 for 3 years and things are wonderful.
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
 To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
 Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello to everyone,
 I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
 dating
 and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have 
you
 had
 with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look 
forward to
 hearing your stories.


 I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
 Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, 
like a
 breeze

 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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 nabs-l:
 
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 nabs-l:
 
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 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended 
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its 
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil 
or
 criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
 attachments for security threats. However, security of your 
machine is
 up to you. Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.



 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended 
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its 
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil 
or
 criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
 attachments for security threats. However, security of your 
machine is
 up to you. Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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 nabs-l:
 
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From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 01:28:57 2012
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:28:57 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
Message-ID: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>

Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are 
still working.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

I'm gonna way in on this topic.
My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around 
blind people
growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind 
person.
We've met in person twice and it's been great.
Take care,
Doug

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


Hello all,
Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my 
own
experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. 
As a
matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and 
he
is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, 
and I
have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that 
some of
what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good 
and
bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we 
actually
got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families 
were
present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
being long distance, and it was the only way the two families 
could
meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that 
was
a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it 
was
hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind 
person
besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also 
met
sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating 
sites. I
met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my 
opinion,
that's better because you're actually meeting people you have 
things
in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like 
most
people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you 
share in
common with the other person. I personally have never dated a 
sighted
person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore 
it
really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most 
of
these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, 
and
basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already 
said,
I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person 
from a
blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
considering they go through some of the same things. But on the 
other
side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't 
completely
adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family 
their
entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue 
such
as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people 
can
have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how 
to
handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.


On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi all,
 I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I 
was on
 a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but 
didn't
 find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
 friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard 
the
 whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous 
first
 dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's 
blindness was
 revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do 
find
 someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a 
public
 place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a 
profile up
 and seeing what happens.
 Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
 Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting 
my
 sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid 
sites.
 I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it 
and
 said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more 
attractive
 and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible 
the
 people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and 
hence
 are better catches.
 I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness 
during
 an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their 
profiles,
 others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it 
at some
 point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview 
and
 reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but 
before
 we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out 
when
 they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can 
happen at
 any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you 
would
 prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to 
get to
 know you before they learn about your blindness.
 Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I 
have done
 both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind 
person
 or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of 
thinking.
 I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt 
the
 same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were 
blind. I
 will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship 
was
 easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about 
what
 nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret 
my
 nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the 
relationship I
 have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years 
with the
 other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't 
think
 of any major differences. I do think that regardless of 
blindness
 status, it's important for you and your partner to share 
interests and
 passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of 
us
 share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, 
there
 are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
 around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those 
passions
 with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
 deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, 
I
 think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
 common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard 
to
 meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like 
singles'
 parties. But if you can find communities of people that share 
your
 interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student 
division,
 classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much 
better
 way to build lasting connections.
 Arielle

 On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention 
simply for
 the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things 
like
 that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with 
general
 sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc 
etc
 to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.

 Later.

 On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> 
wrote:
 Hello Robin,

 Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and 
learn
 from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for 
others.
 As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. 
Not
 dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool 
and
 more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your 
options,
 just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of 
being
 rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind 
people
 have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
 blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to 
necessarily
 feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, 
etc
 etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many 
questions.
 Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
 educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are 
willing
 to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why 
not
 just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
 status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences 
that
 are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
 (whether online or not).

 Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with 
your
 dating search.

 Nimer J

 On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> 
wrote:
 Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, 
that
 pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when 
you meet
 them, they're a criminal.
 Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
 Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh 
yes,
 there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I 
would be
 very
 careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming 
as they
 appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and 
find
 that
 there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I 
feel
 that
 is
 a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on 
a
 daily
 basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have 
found
 there
 are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially 
when they
 are
 confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a 
sited
 person
 for 3 years and things are wonderful.
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
 To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
 Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello to everyone,
 I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
 dating
 and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have 
you
 had
 with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look 
forward to
 hearing your stories.


 I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
 Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, 
like a
 breeze

 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
%40gmail.com



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 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
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0gmail.com



 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended 
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its 
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil 
or
 criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
 attachments for security threats. However, security of your 
machine is
 up to you. Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.



 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended 
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its 
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil 
or
 criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
 attachments for security threats. However, security of your 
machine is
 up to you. Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Mar 23 01:36:40 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:36:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <4f6bd1f7.a656b60a.62ad.4a55@mx.google.com>
References: <4f6bd1f7.a656b60a.62ad.4a55@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtdHvKuO812Pkn1VonNBJiRnfegreiFDNrQGoFPVQju3A@mail.gmail.com>

You met this guy, that you're dating now, in person.
Those relationships are the ones that usually last!
To respond to Nimer's point about not going to the NFB conventions
just to meet someone, I agree, and wasn't implying that.
What I was saying, is that you still could meet someone, as a result
of attending one.
Just go, to connect with other blind people, and find some great deals
on technology!
That's why I'm going, again!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm currently dating a blind man right now that I met at Colorado
> Center for the Blind.  We've been together for nearly two years.
> I'vfe dated online, and I actually found someone who used to be
> on this list, but we fizzled out after two months.  Then, I tried
> Craig's List, not a good choice because I had guys that I wasn't
> sure would fit the bill.  I've dated a sighted guy or two, and
> had a crush on several other sighted guys, but they openly
> rejected me, which bothered me.  The rejections were a result of
> me being the only blind person in the school who wasn't "special
> ed", if you know what I mean.  I honestly was not fitting in at
> the regular ed level as far as ating went.  My parents forbade me
> from dating, and now that I'm with this guy, I'm having culture
> clashes.  For instance, he wants to marry a cousin, which is
> illegal in the United States depending on how close you are with
> the cousins you say you want to marry.  I'm trying to discourage
> the cousin marriage because it's not legal and it could result in
> defective children.  HE has a total defect in his eyes that could
> mean the difference between being single for life and being
> married to someone who might not understand the alternative
> techniques of blindness.  For me, I don't think I see myself with
> anyone else because he understands, but any other Muslim man
> might not support me because of both blindness and a secondary
> mental illness that came about as a result of my parents' fickle
> parenting.  Just my thoughts.
> Beth
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robin <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:47:45 -0700
> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
> Hello to everyone,
> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
> dating and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences
> have you had with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I
> look forward to hearing your stories.
>
>
> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
> Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
> vague,
> like a breeze among flowers.
> Hellen Keller
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
> se%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From trillian551 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 01:42:22 2012
From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 21:42:22 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>
Message-ID: <CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All,
This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
story.
I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
blind however, all bets are off.
This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
mere visual acuity.
So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
 creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
them all.
A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
Sincerely,
Mary

On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind people
> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
> Take care,
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hello all,
> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>
>
> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>> and seeing what happens.
>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>> are better catches.
>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>> way to build lasting connections.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>
>>> Later.
>>>
>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>
>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>>> dating search.
>>>>
>>>> Nimer J
>>>>
>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you meet
>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would be
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as they
>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>> daily
>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when they
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>>> person
>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>>
>
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>
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>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
Emory 2012
"Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
--
T.S. Eliot


From trillian551 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 01:51:29 2012
From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 21:51:29 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>
	<CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADit0-tnQwDajhUaf9zXeGkWwq2gDxun5zUgLxwMNMqJo+MNdQ@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, and btw, online dating is great for meeting people, but you
probably will want to take that outside the virtual world for a
significant amount of time, if you are planning to have a serious and
lasting relationship with them. Seriously, the internet will not tell
you how they smell in the morning, where they leave their shoes and
whether their couches have holes in them. Ok,slightly random, but our
college leaving room couch totally has a hole and it's covered up in
this rather frumpy green blanket we bought at target. It was on
sale... And while nowadays, you can get married and have virtual
children in this rather interesting virtual world that coincides with
the more mundane real one we inhabit, personal connection and physical
proximity are essential in long lasting love.
Mary

On 3/22/12, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
> story.
> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
> blind however, all bets are off.
> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
> mere visual acuity.
> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
> them all.
> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
> Sincerely,
> Mary
>
> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind
>> people
>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>> Take care,
>> Doug
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello all,
>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>> and seeing what happens.
>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>> are better catches.
>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>
>>>> Later.
>>>>
>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>
>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you
>>>>>> meet
>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory 2012
> "Do I dare
> Disturb the universe?
> In a minute there is time
> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
> --
> T.S. Eliot
>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
Emory 2012
"Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
--
T.S. Eliot


From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 01:58:44 2012
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 21:58:44 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>
	<CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF2O2CzQ6PAG2VaFd+vOAvVQmeV1pjzETxn4B831U+uvrdqS1Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

This response is to Beth and Mary. First, Beth ... I am curious about
where you're from? Why you would be dating someone that wants to mary
his cousin? Do your parents aprove of this arrangement? Is he
proposing to take you as first wife? And what's the culture clash if
you're both Muslims? I would check out an author if I were you by the
name of Ayaan Hirsi Ali. You may or may not enjoy reading her book,
however she went through the struggle of being raised in Somalia. And
from her point of view and I can see how this is at least partly true,
many who come from that type of a culture are afraid to assimulate
into western culture, instead choosing to live in the past. They will
take and take and take from this society, but the entire time they'll
tell you how they don't enjoy it. A huge generalization, I know, but
still. Feel free to write off list if you wish to discuss this further
off list as this may be going too deep for this list.

Mary, I loved your post. You pretty much said what I was going for
more succinctly. I wish you luck with your dating fun.

On 22.03.2012, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello All,
> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
> story.
> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
> blind however, all bets are off.
> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
> mere visual acuity.
> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
> them all.
> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
> Sincerely,
> Mary
>
> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind people
>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>> Take care,
>> Doug
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello all,
>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>> and seeing what happens.
>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>> are better catches.
>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>
>>>> Later.
>>>>
>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>
>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you meet
>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory 2012
> "Do I dare
> Disturb the universe?
> In a minute there is time
> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
> --
> T.S. Eliot
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.


From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 02:05:49 2012
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 22:05:49 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net><B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria><CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com><CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>
Message-ID: <001d01cd0899$7867f5f0$0202a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>

Consiter my case. I'm blind and my girlfriend is deaf Plus she has CP. RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


I'm gonna way in on this topic.
My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind people
growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
We've met in person twice and it's been great.
Take care,
Doug

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


Hello all,
Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.


On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
> and seeing what happens.
> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
> are better catches.
> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
> know you before they learn about your blindness.
> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
> way to build lasting connections.
> Arielle
>
> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>
>> Later.
>>
>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello Robin,
>>>
>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>> (whether online or not).
>>>
>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>> dating search.
>>>
>>> Nimer J
>>>
>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you meet
>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would be
>>>>> very
>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as they
>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find
>>>>> that
>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>> that
>>>>> is
>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a 
>>>>> daily
>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>> there
>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when they
>>>>> are
>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>> person
>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>> dating
>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>
>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From oliver.doug1 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 02:05:23 2012
From: oliver.doug1 at gmail.com (Doug Oliver)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 21:05:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>

we are.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
still working.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

I'm gonna way in on this topic.
My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
blind people
growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
person.
We've met in person twice and it's been great.
Take care,
Doug

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


Hello all,
Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
own
experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
As a
matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
he
is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
and I
have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
some of
what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
and
bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
actually
got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
were
present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
could
meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
was
a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
was
hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
person
besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
met
sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
sites. I
met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
opinion,
that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
things
in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
most
people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
share in
common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
sighted
person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
it
really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
of
these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
and
basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
said,
I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
from a
blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
other
side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
completely
adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
their
entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
such
as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
can
have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
to
handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.


On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi all,
 I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
was on
 a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
didn't
 find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
 friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
the
 whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
first
 dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
blindness was
 revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
find
 someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
public
 place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
profile up
 and seeing what happens.
 Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
 Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
my
 sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
sites.
 I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
and
 said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
attractive
 and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
the
 people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
hence
 are better catches.
 I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
during
 an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
profiles,
 others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
at some
 point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
and
 reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
before
 we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
when
 they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
happen at
 any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
would
 prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
get to
 know you before they learn about your blindness.
 Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
have done
 both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
person
 or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
thinking.
 I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
the
 same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
blind. I
 will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
was
 easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
what
 nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
my
 nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
relationship I
 have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
with the
 other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
think
 of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
blindness
 status, it's important for you and your partner to share
interests and
 passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
us
 share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
there
 are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
 around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
passions
 with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
 deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
I
 think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
 common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
to
 meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
singles'
 parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
your
 interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
division,
 classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
better
 way to build lasting connections.
 Arielle

 On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
simply for
 the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
like
 that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
general
 sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
etc
 to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.

 Later.

 On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
wrote:
 Hello Robin,

 Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
learn
 from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
others.
 As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
Not
 dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
and
 more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
options,
 just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
being
 rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
people
 have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
 blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to
necessarily
 feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
etc
 etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
questions.
 Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
 educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
willing
 to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
not
 just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
 status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
that
 are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
 (whether online or not).

 Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
your
 dating search.

 Nimer J

 On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
wrote:
 Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
that
 pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
you meet
 them, they're a criminal.
 Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
 Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
yes,
 there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
would be
 very
 careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
as they
 appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
find
 that
 there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
feel
 that
 is
 a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
a
 daily
 basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
found
 there
 are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially
when they
 are
 confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
sited
 person
 for 3 years and things are wonderful.
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
 To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
 Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello to everyone,
 I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
 dating
 and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
you
 had
 with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
forward to
 hearing your stories.


 I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
 Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
like a
 breeze

 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


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 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
or
 criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
 attachments for security threats. However, security of your
machine is
 up to you. Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.



 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
or
 criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
 attachments for security threats. However, security of your
machine is
 up to you. Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Mar 23 02:11:13 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 21:11:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <001d01cd0899$7867f5f0$0202a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>
	<001d01cd0899$7867f5f0$0202a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOusKK332_R3fnVSTpP87q-t=CRrTF=qiFeaRaSz5NhppA@mail.gmail.com>

Wow!
Now, to one of Mary's points, about dating.
It's difficult to find someone that believes like I do, religiously.
There are no Apostolic Pentecostals, that are my age, in my community.
It's difficult for me to go out of town, to meet someone, because we
don't have public transportation, in this town of 3500.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/22/12, RJ Sandefur <joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com> wrote:
> Consiter my case. I'm blind and my girlfriend is deaf Plus she has CP. RJ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind people
> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
> Take care,
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hello all,
> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>
>
> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>> and seeing what happens.
>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>> are better catches.
>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>> way to build lasting connections.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>
>>> Later.
>>>
>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>
>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>>> dating search.
>>>>
>>>> Nimer J
>>>>
>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you meet
>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would be
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as they
>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>> daily
>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when they
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>>> person
>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Fri Mar 23 02:29:35 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net><B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria><CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com><CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com><FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>
	<CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu>

I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they are 
not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one for 
this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs can 
sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However, there is 
of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't like it 
when people talk to them because of their dogs. .

Nicole

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


Hello All,
This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
story.
I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
blind however, all bets are off.
This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
mere visual acuity.
So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
 creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
them all.
A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
Sincerely,
Mary

On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind people
> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
> Take care,
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hello all,
> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>
>
> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>> and seeing what happens.
>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>> are better catches.
>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>> way to build lasting connections.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>
>>> Later.
>>>
>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>
>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>>> dating search.
>>>>
>>>> Nimer J
>>>>
>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you meet
>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would 
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as 
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>> daily
>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when 
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>>> person
>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
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>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
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>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
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-- 
Mary Fernandez
Emory 2012
"Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
--
T.S. Eliot

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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Mar 23 02:33:48 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 21:33:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>
	<CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvHiGx61gOxTgtwNnyukWx97K6QgJcTZyR8msfz-WF31w@mail.gmail.com>

Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
has an allergy to dogs.
That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
Nicole, do you know if they do?
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they are
> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one for
> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs can
> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However, there is
> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't like it
> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>
> Nicole
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hello All,
> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
> story.
> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
> blind however, all bets are off.
> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
> mere visual acuity.
> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
> them all.
> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
> Sincerely,
> Mary
>
> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind people
>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>> Take care,
>> Doug
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello all,
>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>> and seeing what happens.
>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>> are better catches.
>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>
>>>> Later.
>>>>
>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>
>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you meet
>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
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>
>
> --
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory 2012
> "Do I dare
> Disturb the universe?
> In a minute there is time
> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
> --
> T.S. Eliot
>
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From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 02:45:30 2012
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:45:30 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
Message-ID: <4f6be3ef.e938b60a.3825.4c95@mx.google.com>

For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want or 
any Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that 
they are
not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you 
want one for
this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide 
dogs can
sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. 
However, there is
of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs 
don't like it
when people talk to them because of their dogs. .

Nicole

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


Hello All,
This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average 
height,
someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be 
hard for
anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall 
squarely in
the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. 
Even
geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a 
true
story.
I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend 
of
mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, 
is
that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that 
most
people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual 
being,
who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and 
other
hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and 
go
on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves 
even
more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with 
our
self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like 
this:
Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
though not always, make a comment which will spark off 
conversation.
If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she 
will
angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, 
casual
touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman 
walk
into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted 
requests
to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about 
blindness
will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal 
courting
sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't 
there
before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at 
parties
and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out 
your
blind however, all bets are off.
This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not 
have a
dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful 
in
dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like 
Arielle
and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should 
be
irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider 
as a
potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that 
come
into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal 
ideas
they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but 
decide to
stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are 
so
incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the 
person
despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship 
than
mere visual acuity.
So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something 
your
into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally 
something
I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all 
means. Be
 creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the 
local
bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house 
parties. But
most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never 
ends
well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy 
and
fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by 
the
sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, 
you do
learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more 
thing
we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the 
experience of
friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, 
because
it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since 
they
have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people 
who
think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's 
perspective.
All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones 
among
them all.
A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual 
reference
to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features 
of
yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college 
chic,
when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. 
Because I
have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get 
some
delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
Sincerely,
Mary

On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 I'm gonna way in on this topic.
 My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around 
blind people
 growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind 
person.
 We've met in person twice and it's been great.
 Take care,
 Doug

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello all,
 Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my 
own
 experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people 
online. As a
 matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, 
and he
 is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, 
and I
 have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that 
some of
 what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good 
and
 bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more 
disastrous
 because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we 
actually
 got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families 
were
 present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of 
us
 being long distance, and it was the only way the two families 
could
 meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and 
that was
 a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part 
of
 another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
 actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it 
was
 hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind 
person
 besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also 
met
 sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating 
sites. I
 met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my 
opinion,
 that's better because you're actually meeting people you have 
things
 in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like 
most
 people have said already, one of the main things to consider 
when
 dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you 
share in
 common with the other person. I personally have never dated a 
sighted
 person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
 sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
 haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
 mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore 
it
 really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
 mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with 
most of
 these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends 
online, and
 basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already 
said,
 I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person 
from a
 blind person. A blind person might be a little more 
understanding
 considering they go through some of the same things. But on the 
other
 side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't 
completely
 adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family 
their
 entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue 
such
 as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people 
can
 have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how 
to
 handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.


 On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi all,
 I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I 
was on
 a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but 
didn't
 find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
 friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard 
the
 whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous 
first
 dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's 
blindness was
 revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do 
find
 someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a 
public
 place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a 
profile up
 and seeing what happens.
 Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
 Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting 
my
 sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid 
sites.
 I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it 
and
 said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more 
attractive
 and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible 
the
 people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and 
hence
 are better catches.
 I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness 
during
 an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their 
profiles,
 others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it 
at some
 point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview 
and
 reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but 
before
 we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out 
when
 they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can 
happen at
 any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you 
would
 prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to 
get to
 know you before they learn about your blindness.
 Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I 
have done
 both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind 
person
 or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of 
thinking.
 I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt 
the
 same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were 
blind. I
 will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship 
was
 easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about 
what
 nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret 
my
 nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the 
relationship I
 have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years 
with the
 other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't 
think
 of any major differences. I do think that regardless of 
blindness
 status, it's important for you and your partner to share 
interests and
 passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of 
us
 share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, 
there
 are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
 around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those 
passions
 with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
 deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, 
I
 think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
 common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard 
to
 meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like 
singles'
 parties. But if you can find communities of people that share 
your
 interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student 
division,
 classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much 
better
 way to build lasting connections.
 Arielle

 On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention 
simply for
 the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things 
like
 that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with 
general
 sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc 
etc
 to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.

 Later.

 On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> 
wrote:
 Hello Robin,

 Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and 
learn
 from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for 
others.
 As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. 
Not
 dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool 
and
 more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your 
options,
 just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of 
being
 rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind 
people
 have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
 blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to 
necessarily
 feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, 
etc
 etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many 
questions.
 Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
 educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are 
willing
 to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why 
not
 just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
 status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences 
that
 are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
 (whether online or not).

 Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with 
your
 dating search.

 Nimer J

 On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> 
wrote:
 Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, 
that
 pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when 
you meet
 them, they're a criminal.
 Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
 Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh 
yes,
 there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I 
would
 be
 very
 careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming 
as
 they
 appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and 
find
 that
 there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I 
feel
 that
 is
 a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on 
a
 daily
 basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have 
found
 there
 are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially 
when
 they
 are
 confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a 
sited
 person
 for 3 years and things are wonderful.
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
 To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
 Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello to everyone,
 I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
 dating
 and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have 
you
 had
 with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look 
forward to
 hearing your stories.


 I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
 Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, 
like a
 breeze

 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


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 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended 
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its 
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil 
or
 criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
 attachments for security threats. However, security of your 
machine is
 up to you. Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.



 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended 
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its 
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil 
or
 criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
 attachments for security threats. However, security of your 
machine is
 up to you. Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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--
Mary Fernandez
Emory 2012
"Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
--
T.S. Eliot

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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Fri Mar 23 02:46:15 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:46:15 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net><B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria><CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com><CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com><FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc><CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com><32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOvHiGx61gOxTgtwNnyukWx97K6QgJcTZyR8msfz-WF31w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A5AC35EEA51C4ABF8025D7D27AD2404D@stanford.edu>

No dog is 100% allergy causing free, but most people who are allergic to 
dogs are not allergic to poodles or labordoodles. That being said, I would 
like to know how many people are allergic to dogs.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
has an allergy to dogs.
That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
Nicole, do you know if they do?
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they are
> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one 
> for
> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs can
> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However, there 
> is
> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't like 
> it
> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>
> Nicole
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hello All,
> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
> story.
> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
> blind however, all bets are off.
> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
> mere visual acuity.
> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
> them all.
> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
> Sincerely,
> Mary
>
> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind 
>> people
>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>> Take care,
>> Doug
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello all,
>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>> and seeing what happens.
>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>> are better catches.
>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>
>>>> Later.
>>>>
>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>
>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you 
>>>>>> meet
>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and 
>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward 
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
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>>
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
> --
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory 2012
> "Do I dare
> Disturb the universe?
> In a minute there is time
> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
> --
> T.S. Eliot
>
> _______________________________________________
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Mar 23 02:50:06 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 21:50:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <A5AC35EEA51C4ABF8025D7D27AD2404D@stanford.edu>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>
	<CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOvHiGx61gOxTgtwNnyukWx97K6QgJcTZyR8msfz-WF31w@mail.gmail.com>
	<A5AC35EEA51C4ABF8025D7D27AD2404D@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtyMQf7hQWVgB_0s+Oh4pFP13gbyuDKQju3uQDQj+T37A@mail.gmail.com>

I'm allergic to cats, dogs, and horses.
I'm not sure, if Guiding Eyes trains poodles.
That's an interesting question, and those of you, that received your
dogs from there, may be able to answer that.
If so, I might be on the lookout for one.
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> No dog is 100% allergy causing free, but most people who are allergic to
> dogs are not allergic to poodles or labordoodles. That being said, I would
> like to know how many people are allergic to dogs.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
> has an allergy to dogs.
> That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
> I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
> Nicole, do you know if they do?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they are
>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one
>> for
>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs can
>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However, there
>> is
>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't like
>> it
>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>
>> Nicole
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello All,
>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
>> story.
>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
>> blind however, all bets are off.
>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
>> mere visual acuity.
>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
>> them all.
>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>> Sincerely,
>> Mary
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind
>>> people
>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>> Take care,
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>>> are better catches.
>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>
>>>>> Later.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you
>>>>>>> meet
>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mary Fernandez
>> Emory 2012
>> "Do I dare
>> Disturb the universe?
>> In a minute there is time
>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>> --
>> T.S. Eliot
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>> nabs-l:
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>>
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>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Mar 23 02:51:35 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 21:51:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <4f6be3ef.e938b60a.3825.4c95@mx.google.com>
References: <4f6be3ef.e938b60a.3825.4c95@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvQp2CLf+7Y4emWP3Xw5fsTe+L8evncUVFhbAaifsoZww@mail.gmail.com>

Wow!
I think Jews, (depending on which group,) believe the same thing.
BTW, Beth, will you be at convention, this year?
Please E-mail me offlist.
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
> For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want or
> any Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
> Beth
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that
> they are
> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you
> want one for
> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide
> dogs can
> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.
> However, there is
> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs
> don't like it
> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>
> Nicole
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hello All,
> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average
> height,
> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be
> hard for
> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall
> squarely in
> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.
> Even
> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a
> true
> story.
> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend
> of
> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon,
> is
> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that
> most
> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual
> being,
> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and
> other
> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and
> go
> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves
> even
> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with
> our
> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like
> this:
> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
> though not always, make a comment which will spark off
> conversation.
> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she
> will
> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection,
> casual
> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman
> walk
> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted
> requests
> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about
> blindness
> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal
> courting
> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't
> there
> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at
> parties
> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out
> your
> blind however, all bets are off.
> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not
> have a
> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful
> in
> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like
> Arielle
> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should
> be
> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider
> as a
> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that
> come
> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal
> ideas
> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but
> decide to
> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are
> so
> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the
> person
> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship
> than
> mere visual acuity.
> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something
> your
> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally
> something
> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all
> means. Be
>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the
> local
> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house
> parties. But
> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never
> ends
> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy
> and
> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by
> the
> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But,
> you do
> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more
> thing
> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the
> experience of
> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people,
> because
> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since
> they
> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people
> who
> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's
> perspective.
> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones
> among
> them all.
> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual
> reference
> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features
> of
> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college
> chic,
> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.
> Because I
> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get
> some
> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
> Sincerely,
> Mary
>
> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>  My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
> blind people
>  growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
> person.
>  We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>  Take care,
>  Doug
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  Hello all,
>  Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
> own
>  experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people
> online. As a
>  matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online,
> and he
>  is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
> and I
>  have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
> some of
>  what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
> and
>  bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more
> disastrous
>  because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
> actually
>  got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
> were
>  present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of
> us
>  being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
> could
>  meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and
> that was
>  a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part
> of
>  another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>  actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
> was
>  hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
> person
>  besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
> met
>  sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
> sites. I
>  met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
> opinion,
>  that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
> things
>  in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
> most
>  people have said already, one of the main things to consider
> when
>  dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
> share in
>  common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
> sighted
>  person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>  sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>  haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>  mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
> it
>  really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>  mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with
> most of
>  these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends
> online, and
>  basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
> said,
>  I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
> from a
>  blind person. A blind person might be a little more
> understanding
>  considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
> other
>  side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
> completely
>  adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
> their
>  entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
> such
>  as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
> can
>  have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
> to
>  handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>
>
>  On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi all,
>  I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
> was on
>  a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
> didn't
>  find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>  friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
> the
>  whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
> first
>  dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
> blindness was
>  revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
> find
>  someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
> public
>  place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
> profile up
>  and seeing what happens.
>  Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>  Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
> my
>  sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
> sites.
>  I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
> and
>  said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
> attractive
>  and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
> the
>  people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
> hence
>  are better catches.
>  I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
> during
>  an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
> profiles,
>  others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
> at some
>  point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
> and
>  reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
> before
>  we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
> when
>  they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
> happen at
>  any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
> would
>  prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
> get to
>  know you before they learn about your blindness.
>  Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
> have done
>  both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
> person
>  or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
> thinking.
>  I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
> the
>  same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
> blind. I
>  will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
> was
>  easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
> what
>  nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
> my
>  nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
> relationship I
>  have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
> with the
>  other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
> think
>  of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
> blindness
>  status, it's important for you and your partner to share
> interests and
>  passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
> us
>  share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
> there
>  are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>  around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
> passions
>  with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>  deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
> I
>  think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>  common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
> to
>  meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
> singles'
>  parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
> your
>  interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
> division,
>  classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
> better
>  way to build lasting connections.
>  Arielle
>
>  On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
> simply for
>  the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
> like
>  that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
> general
>  sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
> etc
>  to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>
>  Later.
>
>  On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  Hello Robin,
>
>  Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
> learn
>  from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
> others.
>  As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
> Not
>  dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
> and
>  more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
> options,
>  just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
> being
>  rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
> people
>  have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>  blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to
> necessarily
>  feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
> etc
>  etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
> questions.
>  Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>  educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
> willing
>  to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
> not
>  just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>  status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
> that
>  are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>  (whether online or not).
>
>  Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
> your
>  dating search.
>
>  Nimer J
>
>  On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>  Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
> that
>  pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
> you meet
>  them, they're a criminal.
>  Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>  Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
> yes,
>  there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>  Blessings, Joshua
>
>  On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi,
>  I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
> would
>  be
>  very
>  careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
> as
>  they
>  appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
> find
>  that
>  there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
> feel
>  that
>  is
>  a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
> a
>  daily
>  basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
> found
>  there
>  are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially
> when
>  they
>  are
>  confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
> sited
>  person
>  for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>  To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>  Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  Hello to everyone,
>  I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>  dating
>  and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
> you
>  had
>  with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
> forward to
>  hearing your stories.
>
>
>  I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>  Perhaps
>  there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
> like a
>  breeze
>
>  among flowers.
>  Hellen Keller
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info
>  for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
> %40gmail.com
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>
>  _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>  --
>  Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>  addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
> recipient,
>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>  correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
> contents
>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
> or
>  criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>  attachments for security threats. However, security of your
> machine is
>  up to you. Thanks.
>
>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>  http://counter.li.org/
>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
> system,
>  please click here:
>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
> XP
>  and above, please click here:
>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>
>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
> news.
>
>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
> (720)
>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>
>
>  --
>  Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>  addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
> recipient,
>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>  correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
> contents
>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
> or
>  criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>  attachments for security threats. However, security of your
> machine is
>  up to you. Thanks.
>
>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>  http://counter.li.org/
>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
> system,
>  please click here:
>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
> XP
>  and above, please click here:
>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>
>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
> news.
>
>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
> (720)
>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
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>
> --
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory 2012
> "Do I dare
> Disturb the universe?
> In a minute there is time
> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
> --
> T.S. Eliot
>
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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Fri Mar 23 02:48:57 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:48:57 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <4f6be3ef.e938b60a.3825.4c95@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <542B37D1C70A482AAFC8BDAAF92FA605@stanford.edu>

I hope that it did not sound as I was suggesting that everyone get a guide 
dog because I certainly was not, and I sincerely apologize if that is how it 
came across. I understand about differences in ways of life because of 
religion or other things.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want or
any Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that
they are
not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you
want one for
this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide
dogs can
sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.
However, there is
of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs
don't like it
when people talk to them because of their dogs. .

Nicole

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


Hello All,
This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average
height,
someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be
hard for
anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall
squarely in
the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.
Even
geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a
true
story.
I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend
of
mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon,
is
that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that
most
people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual
being,
who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and
other
hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and
go
on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves
even
more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with
our
self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like
this:
Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
though not always, make a comment which will spark off
conversation.
If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she
will
angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection,
casual
touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman
walk
into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted
requests
to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about
blindness
will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal
courting
sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't
there
before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at
parties
and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out
your
blind however, all bets are off.
This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not
have a
dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful
in
dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like
Arielle
and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should
be
irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider
as a
potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that
come
into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal
ideas
they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but
decide to
stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are
so
incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the
person
despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship
than
mere visual acuity.
So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something
your
into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally
something
I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all
means. Be
 creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the
local
bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house
parties. But
most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never
ends
well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy
and
fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by
the
sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But,
you do
learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more
thing
we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the
experience of
friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people,
because
it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since
they
have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people
who
think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's
perspective.
All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones
among
them all.
A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual
reference
to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features
of
yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college
chic,
when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.
Because I
have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get
some
delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
Sincerely,
Mary

On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 I'm gonna way in on this topic.
 My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
blind people
 growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
person.
 We've met in person twice and it's been great.
 Take care,
 Doug

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello all,
 Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
own
 experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people
online. As a
 matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online,
and he
 is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
and I
 have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
some of
 what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
and
 bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more
disastrous
 because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
actually
 got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
were
 present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of
us
 being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
could
 meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and
that was
 a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part
of
 another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
 actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
was
 hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
person
 besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
met
 sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
sites. I
 met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
opinion,
 that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
things
 in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
most
 people have said already, one of the main things to consider
when
 dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
share in
 common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
sighted
 person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
 sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
 haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
 mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
it
 really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
 mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with
most of
 these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends
online, and
 basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
said,
 I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
from a
 blind person. A blind person might be a little more
understanding
 considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
other
 side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
completely
 adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
their
 entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
such
 as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
can
 have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
to
 handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.


 On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi all,
 I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
was on
 a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
didn't
 find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
 friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
the
 whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
first
 dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
blindness was
 revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
find
 someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
public
 place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
profile up
 and seeing what happens.
 Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
 Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
my
 sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
sites.
 I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
and
 said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
attractive
 and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
the
 people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
hence
 are better catches.
 I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
during
 an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
profiles,
 others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
at some
 point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
and
 reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
before
 we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
when
 they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
happen at
 any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
would
 prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
get to
 know you before they learn about your blindness.
 Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
have done
 both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
person
 or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
thinking.
 I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
the
 same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
blind. I
 will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
was
 easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
what
 nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
my
 nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
relationship I
 have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
with the
 other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
think
 of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
blindness
 status, it's important for you and your partner to share
interests and
 passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
us
 share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
there
 are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
 around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
passions
 with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
 deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
I
 think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
 common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
to
 meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
singles'
 parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
your
 interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
division,
 classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
better
 way to build lasting connections.
 Arielle

 On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
simply for
 the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
like
 that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
general
 sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
etc
 to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.

 Later.

 On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
wrote:
 Hello Robin,

 Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
learn
 from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
others.
 As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
Not
 dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
and
 more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
options,
 just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
being
 rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
people
 have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
 blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to
necessarily
 feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
etc
 etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
questions.
 Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
 educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
willing
 to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
not
 just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
 status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
that
 are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
 (whether online or not).

 Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
your
 dating search.

 Nimer J

 On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
wrote:
 Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
that
 pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
you meet
 them, they're a criminal.
 Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
 Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
yes,
 there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
would
 be
 very
 careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
as
 they
 appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
find
 that
 there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
feel
 that
 is
 a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
a
 daily
 basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
found
 there
 are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially
when
 they
 are
 confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
sited
 person
 for 3 years and things are wonderful.
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
 To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
 Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello to everyone,
 I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
 dating
 and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
you
 had
 with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
forward to
 hearing your stories.


 I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
 Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
like a
 breeze

 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


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 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
or
 criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
 attachments for security threats. However, security of your
machine is
 up to you. Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.



 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
or
 criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
 attachments for security threats. However, security of your
machine is
 up to you. Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 _______________________________________________
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--
Mary Fernandez
Emory 2012
"Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
--
T.S. Eliot

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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Fri Mar 23 03:51:17 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:51:17 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re:  Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net><B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria><CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com><CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com><FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc><CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com><32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu><CAO83KOvHiGx61gOxTgtwNnyukWx97K6QgJcTZyR8msfz-WF31w@mail.gmail.com><A5AC35EEA51C4ABF8025D7D27AD2404D@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOtyMQf7hQWVgB_0s+Oh4pFP13gbyuDKQju3uQDQj+T37A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <08EB12E8B19546638FBB31F8B02AEBA7@stanford.edu>

Is that the only school that you would consider?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


I'm allergic to cats, dogs, and horses.
I'm not sure, if Guiding Eyes trains poodles.
That's an interesting question, and those of you, that received your
dogs from there, may be able to answer that.
If so, I might be on the lookout for one.
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> No dog is 100% allergy causing free, but most people who are allergic to
> dogs are not allergic to poodles or labordoodles. That being said, I would
> like to know how many people are allergic to dogs.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
> has an allergy to dogs.
> That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
> I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
> Nicole, do you know if they do?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they are
>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one
>> for
>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs can
>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However, there
>> is
>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't like
>> it
>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>
>> Nicole
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello All,
>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
>> story.
>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
>> blind however, all bets are off.
>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
>> mere visual acuity.
>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
>> them all.
>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>> Sincerely,
>> Mary
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind
>>> people
>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>> Take care,
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>>> are better catches.
>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>
>>>>> Later.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are 
>>>>>> willing
>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you
>>>>>>> meet
>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have 
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like 
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its 
>>>>>> contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>
>>>
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Mary Fernandez
>> Emory 2012
>> "Do I dare
>> Disturb the universe?
>> In a minute there is time
>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>> --
>> T.S. Eliot
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l:
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>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Fri Mar 23 03:52:00 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:52:00 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Asking People to Write Off List Re: Dating &
	Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <4f6be3ef.e938b60a.3825.4c95@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOvQp2CLf+7Y4emWP3Xw5fsTe+L8evncUVFhbAaifsoZww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A19E63C2E0554E8BB6904E628590C91D@stanford.edu>

Before you ask people to write to you off list, do you try writing to them 
off list first?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


Wow!
I think Jews, (depending on which group,) believe the same thing.
BTW, Beth, will you be at convention, this year?
Please E-mail me offlist.
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
> For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want or
> any Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
> Beth
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that
> they are
> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you
> want one for
> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide
> dogs can
> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.
> However, there is
> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs
> don't like it
> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>
> Nicole
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hello All,
> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average
> height,
> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be
> hard for
> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall
> squarely in
> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.
> Even
> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a
> true
> story.
> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend
> of
> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon,
> is
> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that
> most
> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual
> being,
> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and
> other
> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and
> go
> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves
> even
> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with
> our
> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like
> this:
> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
> though not always, make a comment which will spark off
> conversation.
> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she
> will
> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection,
> casual
> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman
> walk
> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted
> requests
> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about
> blindness
> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal
> courting
> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't
> there
> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at
> parties
> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out
> your
> blind however, all bets are off.
> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not
> have a
> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful
> in
> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like
> Arielle
> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should
> be
> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider
> as a
> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that
> come
> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal
> ideas
> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but
> decide to
> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are
> so
> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the
> person
> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship
> than
> mere visual acuity.
> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something
> your
> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally
> something
> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all
> means. Be
>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the
> local
> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house
> parties. But
> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never
> ends
> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy
> and
> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by
> the
> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But,
> you do
> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more
> thing
> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the
> experience of
> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people,
> because
> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since
> they
> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people
> who
> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's
> perspective.
> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones
> among
> them all.
> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual
> reference
> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features
> of
> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college
> chic,
> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.
> Because I
> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get
> some
> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
> Sincerely,
> Mary
>
> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>  My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
> blind people
>  growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
> person.
>  We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>  Take care,
>  Doug
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  Hello all,
>  Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
> own
>  experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people
> online. As a
>  matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online,
> and he
>  is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
> and I
>  have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
> some of
>  what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
> and
>  bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more
> disastrous
>  because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
> actually
>  got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
> were
>  present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of
> us
>  being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
> could
>  meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and
> that was
>  a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part
> of
>  another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>  actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
> was
>  hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
> person
>  besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
> met
>  sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
> sites. I
>  met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
> opinion,
>  that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
> things
>  in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
> most
>  people have said already, one of the main things to consider
> when
>  dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
> share in
>  common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
> sighted
>  person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>  sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>  haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>  mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
> it
>  really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>  mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with
> most of
>  these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends
> online, and
>  basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
> said,
>  I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
> from a
>  blind person. A blind person might be a little more
> understanding
>  considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
> other
>  side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
> completely
>  adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
> their
>  entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
> such
>  as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
> can
>  have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
> to
>  handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>
>
>  On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi all,
>  I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
> was on
>  a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
> didn't
>  find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>  friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
> the
>  whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
> first
>  dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
> blindness was
>  revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
> find
>  someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
> public
>  place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
> profile up
>  and seeing what happens.
>  Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>  Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
> my
>  sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
> sites.
>  I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
> and
>  said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
> attractive
>  and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
> the
>  people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
> hence
>  are better catches.
>  I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
> during
>  an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
> profiles,
>  others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
> at some
>  point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
> and
>  reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
> before
>  we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
> when
>  they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
> happen at
>  any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
> would
>  prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
> get to
>  know you before they learn about your blindness.
>  Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
> have done
>  both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
> person
>  or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
> thinking.
>  I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
> the
>  same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
> blind. I
>  will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
> was
>  easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
> what
>  nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
> my
>  nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
> relationship I
>  have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
> with the
>  other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
> think
>  of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
> blindness
>  status, it's important for you and your partner to share
> interests and
>  passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
> us
>  share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
> there
>  are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>  around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
> passions
>  with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>  deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
> I
>  think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>  common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
> to
>  meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
> singles'
>  parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
> your
>  interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
> division,
>  classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
> better
>  way to build lasting connections.
>  Arielle
>
>  On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
> simply for
>  the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
> like
>  that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
> general
>  sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
> etc
>  to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>
>  Later.
>
>  On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  Hello Robin,
>
>  Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
> learn
>  from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
> others.
>  As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
> Not
>  dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
> and
>  more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
> options,
>  just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
> being
>  rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
> people
>  have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>  blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to
> necessarily
>  feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
> etc
>  etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
> questions.
>  Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>  educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
> willing
>  to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
> not
>  just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>  status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
> that
>  are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>  (whether online or not).
>
>  Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
> your
>  dating search.
>
>  Nimer J
>
>  On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>  Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
> that
>  pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
> you meet
>  them, they're a criminal.
>  Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>  Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
> yes,
>  there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>  Blessings, Joshua
>
>  On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi,
>  I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
> would
>  be
>  very
>  careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
> as
>  they
>  appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
> find
>  that
>  there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
> feel
>  that
>  is
>  a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
> a
>  daily
>  basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
> found
>  there
>  are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially
> when
>  they
>  are
>  confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
> sited
>  person
>  for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>  To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>  Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  Hello to everyone,
>  I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>  dating
>  and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
> you
>  had
>  with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
> forward to
>  hearing your stories.
>
>
>  I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>  Perhaps
>  there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
> like a
>  breeze
>
>  among flowers.
>  Hellen Keller
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info
>  for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
> %40gmail.com
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>
>  _______________________________________________
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> 0gmail.com
>
>
>
>  --
>  Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>  addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
> recipient,
>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>  correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
> contents
>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
> or
>  criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>  attachments for security threats. However, security of your
> machine is
>  up to you. Thanks.
>
>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>  http://counter.li.org/
>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
> system,
>  please click here:
>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
> XP
>  and above, please click here:
>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>
>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
> news.
>
>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
> (720)
>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>
>
>  --
>  Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>  addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
> recipient,
>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>  correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
> contents
>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
> or
>  criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>  attachments for security threats. However, security of your
> machine is
>  up to you. Thanks.
>
>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>  http://counter.li.org/
>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
> system,
>  please click here:
>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
> XP
>  and above, please click here:
>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>
>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
> news.
>
>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
> (720)
>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
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>
>
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>
>
>
> --
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory 2012
> "Do I dare
> Disturb the universe?
> In a minute there is time
> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
> --
> T.S. Eliot
>
> _______________________________________________
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Mar 23 03:57:09 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 22:57:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <08EB12E8B19546638FBB31F8B02AEBA7@stanford.edu>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>
	<CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOvHiGx61gOxTgtwNnyukWx97K6QgJcTZyR8msfz-WF31w@mail.gmail.com>
	<A5AC35EEA51C4ABF8025D7D27AD2404D@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOtyMQf7hQWVgB_0s+Oh4pFP13gbyuDKQju3uQDQj+T37A@mail.gmail.com>
	<08EB12E8B19546638FBB31F8B02AEBA7@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOumwgKvqXkYo7Ec6ivHqDodd0giO9eqAMU_RJg1FZtjAw@mail.gmail.com>

It's closer to Arkansas, (where I live.)
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Is that the only school that you would consider?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> I'm allergic to cats, dogs, and horses.
> I'm not sure, if Guiding Eyes trains poodles.
> That's an interesting question, and those of you, that received your
> dogs from there, may be able to answer that.
> If so, I might be on the lookout for one.
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> No dog is 100% allergy causing free, but most people who are allergic to
>> dogs are not allergic to poodles or labordoodles. That being said, I would
>> like to know how many people are allergic to dogs.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:33 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
>> has an allergy to dogs.
>> That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
>> I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
>> Nicole, do you know if they do?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they are
>>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one
>>> for
>>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs can
>>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However, there
>>> is
>>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't like
>>> it
>>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>>
>>> Nicole
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello All,
>>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
>>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
>>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
>>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
>>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
>>> story.
>>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
>>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
>>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
>>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
>>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
>>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
>>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
>>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
>>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
>>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
>>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
>>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
>>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
>>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
>>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
>>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
>>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
>>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
>>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
>>> blind however, all bets are off.
>>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
>>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
>>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
>>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
>>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
>>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
>>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
>>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
>>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
>>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
>>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
>>> mere visual acuity.
>>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
>>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
>>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>>>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
>>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
>>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
>>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
>>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
>>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
>>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
>>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
>>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
>>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
>>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
>>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
>>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
>>> them all.
>>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
>>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
>>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
>>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
>>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
>>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Mary
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind
>>>> people
>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Doug
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>>>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you
>>>>>>>> meet
>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mary Fernandez
>>> Emory 2012
>>> "Do I dare
>>> Disturb the universe?
>>> In a minute there is time
>>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>>> --
>>> T.S. Eliot
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
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> _______________________________________________
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Mar 23 03:59:46 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 22:59:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Asking People to Write Off List Re: Dating &
 Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <A19E63C2E0554E8BB6904E628590C91D@stanford.edu>
References: <4f6be3ef.e938b60a.3825.4c95@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOvQp2CLf+7Y4emWP3Xw5fsTe+L8evncUVFhbAaifsoZww@mail.gmail.com>
	<A19E63C2E0554E8BB6904E628590C91D@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOs=XJTDPKuZOuknPvCcUnxQRJmd5w1UGymFnk2Size0dQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, and sometimes, they don't get my E-mails.
I've had this happen to me, on the receiving end, too.
I'd E-mail someone, but their E-mails always wound up in my spam,
which I hardly ever check, for obvious reasons, so I had to remedy
that.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Before you ask people to write to you off list, do you try writing to them
> off list first?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Wow!
> I think Jews, (depending on which group,) believe the same thing.
> BTW, Beth, will you be at convention, this year?
> Please E-mail me offlist.
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>> For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want or
>> any Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
>> Beth
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that
>> they are
>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you
>> want one for
>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide
>> dogs can
>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.
>> However, there is
>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs
>> don't like it
>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>
>> Nicole
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello All,
>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average
>> height,
>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be
>> hard for
>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall
>> squarely in
>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.
>> Even
>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a
>> true
>> story.
>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend
>> of
>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon,
>> is
>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that
>> most
>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual
>> being,
>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and
>> other
>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and
>> go
>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves
>> even
>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with
>> our
>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like
>> this:
>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off
>> conversation.
>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she
>> will
>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection,
>> casual
>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman
>> walk
>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted
>> requests
>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about
>> blindness
>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal
>> courting
>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't
>> there
>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at
>> parties
>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out
>> your
>> blind however, all bets are off.
>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not
>> have a
>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful
>> in
>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like
>> Arielle
>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should
>> be
>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider
>> as a
>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that
>> come
>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal
>> ideas
>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but
>> decide to
>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are
>> so
>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the
>> person
>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship
>> than
>> mere visual acuity.
>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something
>> your
>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally
>> something
>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all
>> means. Be
>>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the
>> local
>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house
>> parties. But
>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never
>> ends
>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy
>> and
>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by
>> the
>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But,
>> you do
>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more
>> thing
>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the
>> experience of
>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people,
>> because
>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since
>> they
>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people
>> who
>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's
>> perspective.
>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones
>> among
>> them all.
>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual
>> reference
>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features
>> of
>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college
>> chic,
>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.
>> Because I
>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get
>> some
>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>> Sincerely,
>> Mary
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>  My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>> blind people
>>  growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>> person.
>>  We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>  Take care,
>>  Doug
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>  Hello all,
>>  Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>> own
>>  experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people
>> online. As a
>>  matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online,
>> and he
>>  is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>> and I
>>  have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>> some of
>>  what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>> and
>>  bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more
>> disastrous
>>  because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>> actually
>>  got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>> were
>>  present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of
>> us
>>  being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>> could
>>  meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and
>> that was
>>  a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part
>> of
>>  another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>  actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>> was
>>  hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>> person
>>  besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>> met
>>  sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>> sites. I
>>  met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>> opinion,
>>  that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>> things
>>  in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>> most
>>  people have said already, one of the main things to consider
>> when
>>  dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>> share in
>>  common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>> sighted
>>  person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>  sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>  haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>  mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>> it
>>  really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>  mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with
>> most of
>>  these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends
>> online, and
>>  basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>> said,
>>  I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>> from a
>>  blind person. A blind person might be a little more
>> understanding
>>  considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>> other
>>  side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>> completely
>>  adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>> their
>>  entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>> such
>>  as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>> can
>>  have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>> to
>>  handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>
>>
>>  On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  Hi all,
>>  I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>> was on
>>  a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>> didn't
>>  find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>  friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>> the
>>  whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>> first
>>  dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>> blindness was
>>  revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>> find
>>  someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>> public
>>  place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>> profile up
>>  and seeing what happens.
>>  Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>  Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>> my
>>  sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>> sites.
>>  I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>> and
>>  said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>> attractive
>>  and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>> the
>>  people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>> hence
>>  are better catches.
>>  I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>> during
>>  an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>> profiles,
>>  others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>> at some
>>  point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>> and
>>  reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>> before
>>  we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>> when
>>  they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>> happen at
>>  any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>> would
>>  prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>> get to
>>  know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>  Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>> have done
>>  both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>> person
>>  or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>> thinking.
>>  I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>> the
>>  same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>> blind. I
>>  will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>> was
>>  easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>> what
>>  nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>> my
>>  nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>> relationship I
>>  have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>> with the
>>  other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>> think
>>  of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>> blindness
>>  status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>> interests and
>>  passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>> us
>>  share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>> there
>>  are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>  around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>> passions
>>  with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>  deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>> I
>>  think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>  common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>> to
>>  meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>> singles'
>>  parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>> your
>>  interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>> division,
>>  classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>> better
>>  way to build lasting connections.
>>  Arielle
>>
>>  On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>> simply for
>>  the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>> like
>>  that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>> general
>>  sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>> etc
>>  to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>
>>  Later.
>>
>>  On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>  Hello Robin,
>>
>>  Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>> learn
>>  from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>> others.
>>  As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>> Not
>>  dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>> and
>>  more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>> options,
>>  just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>> being
>>  rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>> people
>>  have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>  blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to
>> necessarily
>>  feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>> etc
>>  etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>> questions.
>>  Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>  educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>> willing
>>  to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>> not
>>  just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>  status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>> that
>>  are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>  (whether online or not).
>>
>>  Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>> your
>>  dating search.
>>
>>  Nimer J
>>
>>  On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> wrote:
>>  Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>> that
>>  pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>> you meet
>>  them, they're a criminal.
>>  Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>  Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>> yes,
>>  there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>  Blessings, Joshua
>>
>>  On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  Hi,
>>  I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>> would
>>  be
>>  very
>>  careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>> as
>>  they
>>  appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>> find
>>  that
>>  there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>> feel
>>  that
>>  is
>>  a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>> a
>>  daily
>>  basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>> found
>>  there
>>  are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially
>> when
>>  they
>>  are
>>  confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>> sited
>>  person
>>  for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>  To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>  Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>  Hello to everyone,
>>  I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>  dating
>>  and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>> you
>>  had
>>  with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>> forward to
>>  hearing your stories.
>>
>>
>>  I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>  Perhaps
>>  there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>> like a
>>  breeze
>>
>>  among flowers.
>>  Hellen Keller
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info
>>  for
>>  nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>> %40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>
>>  _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>  addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>> recipient,
>>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>  correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>> contents
>>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>> or
>>  criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>  attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>> machine is
>>  up to you. Thanks.
>>
>>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>>  http://counter.li.org/
>>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>> system,
>>  please click here:
>>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>> XP
>>  and above, please click here:
>>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>> news.
>>
>>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>> (720)
>>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>  addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>> recipient,
>>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>  correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>> contents
>>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>> or
>>  criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>  attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>> machine is
>>  up to you. Thanks.
>>
>>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>>  http://counter.li.org/
>>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>> system,
>>  please click here:
>>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>> XP
>>  and above, please click here:
>>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>> news.
>>
>>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>> (720)
>>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Mary Fernandez
>> Emory 2012
>> "Do I dare
>> Disturb the universe?
>> In a minute there is time
>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>> --
>> T.S. Eliot
>>
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From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Fri Mar 23 04:18:10 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 00:18:10 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <000b01cd08ab$f55e7310$1400ba43@BRIAN>

I myself am blind and am starting to get to know a sighted woman who I've 
liked since my high School years.  We connected about three weeks ago via 
face book     and have been talking every day and night via phone and email. 
The funny thing is we both now realize that we have deep feelings for each 
other and they get stronger as the days go on. I have liked this girl for 
over ten  years and feel that she is the one.    The only trouble is that 
she is in Rodchester New York and I am hear in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. I 
feel that the travel is doable in my opinion.    So the two part  question 
to people out hear is:

1.  Is anyone out hear in a long distance relationship?  What advantages and 
disadvantages do you see in it?  Also how do you overcome those obstacles 
that these relationships bring.

2. I am looking at eventually moving out to Rodchester to be close to her 
and am wondering how do you decide who moves or who stays put.  She has a 
masters degree and a good job at one of the universities out their but also 
her field I feel is open to anywhere in the US and so is mine.    I myself 
have a BA in radio     broadcasting and mass communications and  am willing 
to start in a smaller market like the Buffalo Rodchester market. I have 
radio connections in the Rodchester market from a long time friend and 
mentor who I have known for seven  years and who  has been very encouraging 
to me and has given me good advice through out college. How should I 
approach him about a possible job or internship where I can get my foot in 
the door?  He seems like the type of person that is willing to give me a 
chance.   I am     also     looking at getting a master's in either a 
related field or seminary theological work and I am definitely    not tied 
down to Pittsburgh for any of these situations. I     am very  willing to 
relocate for new experiences and opportunities in my life. In laymonds terms 
I am ready to       go anywhere.   how are the transportation services out 
in Rodchester because I don't want to have to rely on her all the time to 
drive me places. I am very self motivated and independent and love the NFB's 
philosophies.  I just wish I would've been exposed to them back in high 
school so I could've been more confident in myself.  It took me until the 
age of 27 to develop my confidence and I am very proud of myself in the 
strides I have made through out my college and young adult years.  I am 
getting to the age right now where most of my college friends are either 
married or engaged and I would really like that opportunity for myself. I 
feel that this city of Pittsburgh is holding me back from new adventures and 
I am ready to leave it behind and conquer new challenges in 2012 and beyond. 
Thanks for any help and information that you can give and sorry if I am 
rambling.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 5:47 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


> Hello to everyone,
> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online dating 
> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you had 
> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to 
> hearing your stories.
>
>
> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps 
> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze 
> among flowers.
> Hellen Keller
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net 



From ignasicambra at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 04:21:00 2012
From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 00:21:00 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOvHiGx61gOxTgtwNnyukWx97K6QgJcTZyR8msfz-WF31w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>
	<CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOvHiGx61gOxTgtwNnyukWx97K6QgJcTZyR8msfz-WF31w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2599025500340304469@unknownmsgid>

They do. Caniche dogs work very well as guide dogs I think, and you
shouldn't have any trouble with those...

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 22, 2012, at 10:35 PM, Joshua Lester
<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:

> Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
> has an allergy to dogs.
> That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
> I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
> Nicole, do you know if they do?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they are
>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one for
>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs can
>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However, there is
>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't like it
>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>
>> Nicole
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello All,
>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
>> story.
>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
>> blind however, all bets are off.
>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
>> mere visual acuity.
>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>> creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
>> them all.
>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>> Sincerely,
>> Mary
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind people
>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>> Take care,
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>>> are better catches.
>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>
>>>>> Later.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you meet
>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Mary Fernandez
>> Emory 2012
>> "Do I dare
>> Disturb the universe?
>> In a minute there is time
>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>> --
>> T.S. Eliot
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
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>
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From ignasicambra at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 04:22:35 2012
From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 00:22:35 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <4f6be3ef.e938b60a.3825.4c95@mx.google.com>
References: <4f6be3ef.e938b60a.3825.4c95@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <560574119184395253@unknownmsgid>

Would you give up on all the benefits of having a guide dog just
because at some point a long time ago someone decided that dogs arr
not pure...?

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 22, 2012, at 10:47 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:

> For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want or any Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
> Beth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they are
> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one for
> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs can
> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However, there is
> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't like it
> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>
> Nicole
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hello All,
> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
> story.
> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
> blind however, all bets are off.
> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
> mere visual acuity.
> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
> creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
> them all.
> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
> Sincerely,
> Mary
>
> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind people
> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
> Take care,
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hello all,
> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>
>
> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
> and seeing what happens.
> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
> are better catches.
> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
> know you before they learn about your blindness.
> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
> way to build lasting connections.
> Arielle
>
> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>
> Later.
>
> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Robin,
>
> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
> (whether online or not).
>
> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
> dating search.
>
> Nimer J
>
> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you meet
> them, they're a criminal.
> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would
> be
> very
> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
> they
> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find
> that
> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
> that
> is
> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
> daily
> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
> there
> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
> they
> are
> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
> person
> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hello to everyone,
> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
> dating
> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
> had
> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
> hearing your stories.
>
>
> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
> Perhaps
> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
> breeze
>
> among flowers.
> Hellen Keller
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
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>
> --
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory 2012
> "Do I dare
> Disturb the universe?
> In a minute there is time
> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
> --
> T.S. Eliot
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From ignasicambra at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 04:25:11 2012
From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 00:25:11 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Asking People to Write Off List Re: Dating &
 Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <A19E63C2E0554E8BB6904E628590C91D@stanford.edu>
References: <4f6be3ef.e938b60a.3825.4c95@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOvQp2CLf+7Y4emWP3Xw5fsTe+L8evncUVFhbAaifsoZww@mail.gmail.com>
	<A19E63C2E0554E8BB6904E628590C91D@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <-8101819840379197912@unknownmsgid>

I truly appreciate that there's someone on this list to ask this kind
of questions!!!

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 22, 2012, at 11:55 PM, "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home"
<ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:

> Before you ask people to write to you off list, do you try writing to them off list first?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Wow!
> I think Jews, (depending on which group,) believe the same thing.
> BTW, Beth, will you be at convention, this year?
> Please E-mail me offlist.
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>> For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want or
>> any Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
>> Beth
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that
>> they are
>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you
>> want one for
>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide
>> dogs can
>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.
>> However, there is
>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs
>> don't like it
>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>
>> Nicole
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello All,
>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average
>> height,
>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be
>> hard for
>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall
>> squarely in
>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.
>> Even
>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a
>> true
>> story.
>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend
>> of
>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon,
>> is
>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that
>> most
>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual
>> being,
>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and
>> other
>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and
>> go
>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves
>> even
>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with
>> our
>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like
>> this:
>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off
>> conversation.
>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she
>> will
>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection,
>> casual
>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman
>> walk
>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted
>> requests
>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about
>> blindness
>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal
>> courting
>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't
>> there
>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at
>> parties
>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out
>> your
>> blind however, all bets are off.
>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not
>> have a
>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful
>> in
>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like
>> Arielle
>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should
>> be
>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider
>> as a
>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that
>> come
>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal
>> ideas
>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but
>> decide to
>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are
>> so
>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the
>> person
>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship
>> than
>> mere visual acuity.
>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something
>> your
>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally
>> something
>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all
>> means. Be
>> creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the
>> local
>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house
>> parties. But
>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never
>> ends
>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy
>> and
>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by
>> the
>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But,
>> you do
>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more
>> thing
>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the
>> experience of
>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people,
>> because
>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since
>> they
>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people
>> who
>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's
>> perspective.
>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones
>> among
>> them all.
>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual
>> reference
>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features
>> of
>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college
>> chic,
>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.
>> Because I
>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get
>> some
>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>> Sincerely,
>> Mary
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>> blind people
>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>> person.
>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>> Take care,
>> Doug
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello all,
>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>> own
>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people
>> online. As a
>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online,
>> and he
>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>> and I
>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>> some of
>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>> and
>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more
>> disastrous
>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>> actually
>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>> were
>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of
>> us
>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>> could
>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and
>> that was
>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part
>> of
>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>> was
>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>> person
>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>> met
>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>> sites. I
>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>> opinion,
>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>> things
>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>> most
>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider
>> when
>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>> share in
>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>> sighted
>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>> it
>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with
>> most of
>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends
>> online, and
>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>> said,
>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>> from a
>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more
>> understanding
>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>> other
>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>> completely
>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>> their
>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>> such
>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>> can
>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>> to
>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>> was on
>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>> didn't
>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>> the
>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>> first
>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>> blindness was
>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>> find
>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>> public
>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>> profile up
>> and seeing what happens.
>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>> my
>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>> sites.
>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>> and
>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>> attractive
>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>> the
>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>> hence
>> are better catches.
>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>> during
>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>> profiles,
>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>> at some
>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>> and
>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>> before
>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>> when
>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>> happen at
>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>> would
>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>> get to
>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>> have done
>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>> person
>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>> thinking.
>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>> the
>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>> blind. I
>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>> was
>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>> what
>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>> my
>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>> relationship I
>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>> with the
>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>> think
>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>> blindness
>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>> interests and
>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>> us
>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>> there
>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>> passions
>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>> I
>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>> to
>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>> singles'
>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>> your
>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>> division,
>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>> better
>> way to build lasting connections.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>> simply for
>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>> like
>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>> general
>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>> etc
>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>
>> Later.
>>
>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> Hello Robin,
>>
>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>> learn
>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>> others.
>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>> Not
>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>> and
>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>> options,
>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>> being
>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>> people
>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to
>> necessarily
>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>> etc
>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>> questions.
>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>> willing
>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>> not
>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>> that
>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>> (whether online or not).
>>
>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>> your
>> dating search.
>>
>> Nimer J
>>
>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> wrote:
>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>> that
>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>> you meet
>> them, they're a criminal.
>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>> yes,
>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>> would
>> be
>> very
>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>> as
>> they
>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>> find
>> that
>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>> feel
>> that
>> is
>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>> a
>> daily
>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>> found
>> there
>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially
>> when
>> they
>> are
>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>> sited
>> person
>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello to everyone,
>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>> dating
>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>> you
>> had
>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>> forward to
>> hearing your stories.
>>
>>
>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>> Perhaps
>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>> like a
>> breeze
>>
>> among flowers.
>> Hellen Keller
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> info
>> for
>> nabs-l:
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>> %40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>> recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>> contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>> or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>> machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>> system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>> XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>> news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>> (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>> recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>> contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>> or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>> machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>> system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>> XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>> news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>> (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Mary Fernandez
>> Emory 2012
>> "Do I dare
>> Disturb the universe?
>> In a minute there is time
>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>> --
>> T.S. Eliot
>>
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Mar 23 04:26:06 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 23:26:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <000b01cd08ab$f55e7310$1400ba43@BRIAN>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<000b01cd08ab$f55e7310$1400ba43@BRIAN>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOv9B2XFdhuPMb5JS8HVcjwKqpNaAhUEy-QcVoYQNL_ctg@mail.gmail.com>

I was in a long-distance relationship, in high school.
I met this girl, at the Beta Club convention, and we started calling
each other, but later on, I found out, that she wasn't as committed to
me, as I was to her.
We ended up, breaking up, after our graduation, in 2007.
That's the main problem, with long-distance relationships.
You never know, if the people you're dating, from far away, are
actually being faithful to you, or if they're seeing someone else, in
their area.
It's always great, to find someone, in your area, or close by.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> I myself am blind and am starting to get to know a sighted woman who I've
> liked since my high School years.  We connected about three weeks ago via
> face book     and have been talking every day and night via phone and email.
> The funny thing is we both now realize that we have deep feelings for each
> other and they get stronger as the days go on. I have liked this girl for
> over ten  years and feel that she is the one.    The only trouble is that
> she is in Rodchester New York and I am hear in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. I
> feel that the travel is doable in my opinion.    So the two part  question
> to people out hear is:
>
> 1.  Is anyone out hear in a long distance relationship?  What advantages and
> disadvantages do you see in it?  Also how do you overcome those obstacles
> that these relationships bring.
>
> 2. I am looking at eventually moving out to Rodchester to be close to her
> and am wondering how do you decide who moves or who stays put.  She has a
> masters degree and a good job at one of the universities out their but also
> her field I feel is open to anywhere in the US and so is mine.    I myself
> have a BA in radio     broadcasting and mass communications and  am willing
> to start in a smaller market like the Buffalo Rodchester market. I have
> radio connections in the Rodchester market from a long time friend and
> mentor who I have known for seven  years and who  has been very encouraging
> to me and has given me good advice through out college. How should I
> approach him about a possible job or internship where I can get my foot in
> the door?  He seems like the type of person that is willing to give me a
> chance.   I am     also     looking at getting a master's in either a
> related field or seminary theological work and I am definitely    not tied
> down to Pittsburgh for any of these situations. I     am very  willing to
> relocate for new experiences and opportunities in my life. In laymonds terms
> I am ready to       go anywhere.   how are the transportation services out
> in Rodchester because I don't want to have to rely on her all the time to
> drive me places. I am very self motivated and independent and love the NFB's
> philosophies.  I just wish I would've been exposed to them back in high
> school so I could've been more confident in myself.  It took me until the
> age of 27 to develop my confidence and I am very proud of myself in the
> strides I have made through out my college and young adult years.  I am
> getting to the age right now where most of my college friends are either
> married or engaged and I would really like that opportunity for myself. I
> feel that this city of Pittsburgh is holding me back from new adventures and
> I am ready to leave it behind and conquer new challenges in 2012 and beyond.
> Thanks for any help and information that you can give and sorry if I am
> rambling.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 5:47 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>> Hello to everyone,
>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online dating
>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you had
>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
>> hearing your stories.
>>
>>
>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps
>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze
>>
>> among flowers.
>> Hellen Keller
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Mar 23 04:27:32 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 23:27:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <2599025500340304469@unknownmsgid>
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Thanks!
I'll ask around, and try to go to Guiding Eyes, after I graduate college.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
> They do. Caniche dogs work very well as guide dogs I think, and you
> shouldn't have any trouble with those...
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 22, 2012, at 10:35 PM, Joshua Lester
> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>
>> Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
>> has an allergy to dogs.
>> That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
>> I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
>> Nicole, do you know if they do?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they are
>>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one
>>> for
>>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs can
>>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However, there
>>> is
>>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't like
>>> it
>>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>>
>>> Nicole
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello All,
>>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
>>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
>>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
>>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
>>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
>>> story.
>>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
>>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
>>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
>>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
>>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
>>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
>>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
>>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
>>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
>>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
>>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
>>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
>>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
>>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
>>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
>>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
>>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
>>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
>>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
>>> blind however, all bets are off.
>>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
>>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
>>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
>>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
>>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
>>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
>>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
>>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
>>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
>>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
>>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
>>> mere visual acuity.
>>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
>>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
>>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>>> creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
>>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
>>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
>>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
>>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
>>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
>>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
>>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
>>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
>>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
>>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
>>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
>>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
>>> them all.
>>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
>>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
>>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
>>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
>>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
>>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Mary
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind
>>>> people
>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Doug
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>>>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you
>>>>>>>> meet
>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mary Fernandez
>>> Emory 2012
>>> "Do I dare
>>> Disturb the universe?
>>> In a minute there is time
>>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>>> --
>>> T.S. Eliot
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>
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From ignasicambra at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 04:26:18 2012
From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 00:26:18 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <08EB12E8B19546638FBB31F8B02AEBA7@stanford.edu>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <396004309137181081@unknownmsgid>

The Mira foundation in Canada does train a few poodles for people with
allergies.

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 22, 2012, at 11:58 PM, "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home"
<ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:

> Is that the only school that you would consider?
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> I'm allergic to cats, dogs, and horses.
> I'm not sure, if Guiding Eyes trains poodles.
> That's an interesting question, and those of you, that received your
> dogs from there, may be able to answer that.
> If so, I might be on the lookout for one.
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> No dog is 100% allergy causing free, but most people who are allergic to
>> dogs are not allergic to poodles or labordoodles. That being said, I would
>> like to know how many people are allergic to dogs.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:33 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
>> has an allergy to dogs.
>> That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
>> I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
>> Nicole, do you know if they do?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they are
>>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one
>>> for
>>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs can
>>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However, there
>>> is
>>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't like
>>> it
>>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>>
>>> Nicole
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello All,
>>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
>>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
>>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
>>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
>>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
>>> story.
>>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
>>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
>>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
>>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
>>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
>>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
>>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
>>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
>>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
>>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
>>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
>>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
>>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
>>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
>>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
>>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
>>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
>>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
>>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
>>> blind however, all bets are off.
>>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
>>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
>>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
>>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
>>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
>>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
>>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
>>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
>>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
>>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
>>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
>>> mere visual acuity.
>>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
>>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
>>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>>> creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
>>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
>>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
>>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
>>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
>>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
>>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
>>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
>>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
>>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
>>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
>>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
>>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
>>> them all.
>>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
>>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
>>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
>>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
>>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
>>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Mary
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind
>>>> people
>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Doug
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>>>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you
>>>>>>>> meet
>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mary Fernandez
>>> Emory 2012
>>> "Do I dare
>>> Disturb the universe?
>>> In a minute there is time
>>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>>> --
>>> T.S. Eliot
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>
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From trillian551 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 04:33:42 2012
From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 00:33:42 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOs_fUOOufMnRGw28GNkoYkkpR87MXgomK6K6m-yKhRR0Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>
	<CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOvHiGx61gOxTgtwNnyukWx97K6QgJcTZyR8msfz-WF31w@mail.gmail.com>
	<2599025500340304469@unknownmsgid>
	<CAO83KOs_fUOOufMnRGw28GNkoYkkpR87MXgomK6K6m-yKhRR0Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADit0-vyaMFCtjz6nfrVU8+cq1usm-5t7MMugf90g9+LdOeM6A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
As to long distance relationships, the main drawback is the obvious,
you don't see each other as often. Bryan if you think you and this
girl can have a good future, then I suggest you start seeing each
other one weekend a month or so. See how things work out, and see if
there are times when you can see each other more often. Once you have
that face to face and build a relationship from there, then I think
that the moving question will come up naturally and you can decide
together. You can innumerate all the reasons you've listed here to
her, etc. But based on three weeks, I wouldn't be making any life
decisions. Take it easy and get to know each other well.
Sincerely,
Mary

On 3/23/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> Thanks!
> I'll ask around, and try to go to Guiding Eyes, after I graduate college.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
>> They do. Caniche dogs work very well as guide dogs I think, and you
>> shouldn't have any trouble with those...
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 22, 2012, at 10:35 PM, Joshua Lester
>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
>>> has an allergy to dogs.
>>> That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
>>> I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
>>> Nicole, do you know if they do?
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they
>>>> are
>>>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one
>>>> for
>>>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs
>>>> can
>>>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However,
>>>> there
>>>> is
>>>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't
>>>> like
>>>> it
>>>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>>>
>>>> Nicole
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello All,
>>>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>>>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>>>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
>>>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
>>>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
>>>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
>>>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
>>>> story.
>>>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
>>>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
>>>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
>>>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
>>>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>>>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
>>>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
>>>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
>>>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
>>>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
>>>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>>>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>>>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
>>>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
>>>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>>>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
>>>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>>>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
>>>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
>>>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>>>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
>>>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
>>>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
>>>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>>>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
>>>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
>>>> blind however, all bets are off.
>>>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
>>>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
>>>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
>>>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
>>>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
>>>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
>>>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>>>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>>>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
>>>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
>>>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
>>>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>>>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>>>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
>>>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
>>>> mere visual acuity.
>>>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>>>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
>>>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
>>>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>>>> creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
>>>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
>>>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>>>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
>>>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>>>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
>>>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
>>>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
>>>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
>>>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
>>>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
>>>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
>>>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
>>>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>>>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
>>>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
>>>> them all.
>>>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
>>>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
>>>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
>>>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
>>>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
>>>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Mary
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind
>>>>> people
>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>> Take care,
>>>>> Doug
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>>>>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you
>>>>>>>>> meet
>>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mary Fernandez
>>>> Emory 2012
>>>> "Do I dare
>>>> Disturb the universe?
>>>> In a minute there is time
>>>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>>>> --
>>>> T.S. Eliot
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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-- 
Mary Fernandez
Emory 2012
"Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
--
T.S. Eliot


From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 04:33:35 2012
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 22:33:35 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
Message-ID: <4f6bfd45.6232b60a.1779.622a@mx.google.com>

Good point, Ignasi.  They say that service animals are pure and 
not dirty, but back then, there was no such thing as a guide dog.  
The concept of guide dogs is new compared to the way Islamic 
thinking has evolved, which is not much.  There are people who 
believe that helping dogs are pure, but it's hard to get the 
Somalis to get that through their heads.
beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 00:22:35 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

Would you give up on all the benefits of having a guide dog just
because at some point a long time ago someone decided that dogs 
arr
not pure...?

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 22, 2012, at 10:47 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> 
wrote:

 For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want 
or any Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
 Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

 I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that 
they are
 not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you 
want one for
 this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide 
dogs can
 sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. 
However, there is
 of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs 
don't like it
 when people talk to them because of their dogs. .

 Nicole

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello All,
 This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
 dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard 
for
 someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average 
height,
 someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be 
hard for
 anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall 
squarely in
 the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. 
Even
 geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a 
true
 story.
 I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend 
of
 mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, 
is
 that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that 
most
 people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual 
being,
 who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
 Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and 
other
 hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone 
and go
 on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves 
even
 more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with 
our
 self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like 
this:
 Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
 If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
 though not always, make a comment which will spark off 
conversation.
 If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation 
she will
 angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
 stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, 
casual
 touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
 Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman 
walk
 into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted 
requests
 to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed 
to
 enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about 
blindness
 will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal 
courting
 sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't 
there
 before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
 instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at 
parties
 and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out 
your
 blind however, all bets are off.
 This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not 
have a
 dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly 
successful in
 dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like 
Arielle
 and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should 
be
 irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and 
consider as a
 potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that 
come
 into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
 intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
 parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal 
ideas
 they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but 
decide to
 stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are 
so
 incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from 
each
 other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
 thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the 
person
 despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship 
than
 mere visual acuity.
 So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
 explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something 
your
 into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally 
something
 I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all 
means. Be
 creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the 
local
 bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house 
parties. But
 most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for 
a
 sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never 
ends
 well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
 completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full 
happy and
 fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by 
the
 sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, 
you do
 learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more 
thing
 we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the 
experience of
 friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, 
because
 it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since 
they
 have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people 
who
 think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
 experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's 
perspective.
 All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones 
among
 them all.
 A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual 
reference
 to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best 
features of
 yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college 
chic,
 when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. 
Because I
 have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get 
some
 delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
 Sincerely,
 Mary

 On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 I'm gonna way in on this topic.
 My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around 
blind people
 growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind 
person.
 We've met in person twice and it's been great.
 Take care,
 Doug

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello all,
 Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my 
own
 experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people 
online. As a
 matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, 
and he
 is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, 
and I
 have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that 
some of
 what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good 
and
 bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more 
disastrous
 because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we 
actually
 got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families 
were
 present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of 
us
 being long distance, and it was the only way the two families 
could
 meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and 
that was
 a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part 
of
 another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
 actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it 
was
 hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind 
person
 besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also 
met
 sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating 
sites. I
 met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my 
opinion,
 that's better because you're actually meeting people you have 
things
 in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like 
most
 people have said already, one of the main things to consider 
when
 dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you 
share in
 common with the other person. I personally have never dated a 
sighted
 person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
 sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
 haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
 mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore 
it
 really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
 mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with 
most of
 these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends 
online, and
 basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already 
said,
 I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person 
from a
 blind person. A blind person might be a little more 
understanding
 considering they go through some of the same things. But on the 
other
 side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't 
completely
 adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family 
their
 entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue 
such
 as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people 
can
 have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how 
to
 handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.


 On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi all,
 I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I 
was on
 a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but 
didn't
 find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
 friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard 
the
 whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous 
first
 dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's 
blindness was
 revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do 
find
 someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a 
public
 place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a 
profile up
 and seeing what happens.
 Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
 Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting 
my
 sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid 
sites.
 I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it 
and
 said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more 
attractive
 and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible 
the
 people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and 
hence
 are better catches.
 I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness 
during
 an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their 
profiles,
 others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it 
at some
 point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview 
and
 reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but 
before
 we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out 
when
 they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can 
happen at
 any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you 
would
 prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to 
get to
 know you before they learn about your blindness.
 Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I 
have done
 both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind 
person
 or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of 
thinking.
 I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt 
the
 same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were 
blind. I
 will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship 
was
 easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about 
what
 nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret 
my
 nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the 
relationship I
 have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years 
with the
 other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't 
think
 of any major differences. I do think that regardless of 
blindness
 status, it's important for you and your partner to share 
interests and
 passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of 
us
 share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, 
there
 are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
 around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those 
passions
 with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
 deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, 
I
 think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
 common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard 
to
 meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like 
singles'
 parties. But if you can find communities of people that share 
your
 interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student 
division,
 classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much 
better
 way to build lasting connections.
 Arielle

 On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention 
simply for
 the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things 
like
 that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with 
general
 sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc 
etc
 to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.

 Later.

 On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> 
wrote:
 Hello Robin,

 Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and 
learn
 from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for 
others.
 As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. 
Not
 dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool 
and
 more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your 
options,
 just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of 
being
 rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind 
people
 have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
 blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to 
necessarily
 feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, 
etc
 etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many 
questions.
 Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
 educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are 
willing
 to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why 
not
 just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
 status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences 
that
 are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
 (whether online or not).

 Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with 
your
 dating search.

 Nimer J

 On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> 
wrote:
 Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, 
that
 pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when 
you meet
 them, they're a criminal.
 Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
 Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh 
yes,
 there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I 
would
 be
 very
 careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming 
as
 they
 appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and 
find
 that
 there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I 
feel
 that
 is
 a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on 
a
 daily
 basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have 
found
 there
 are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially 
when
 they
 are
 confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a 
sited
 person
 for 3 years and things are wonderful.
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
 To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
 Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello to everyone,
 I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
 dating
 and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have 
you
 had
 with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look 
forward to
 hearing your stories.


 I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
 Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, 
like a
 breeze

 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


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 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended 
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its 
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil 
or
 criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
 attachments for security threats. However, security of your 
machine is
 up to you. Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.



 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended 
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its 
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil 
or
 criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
 attachments for security threats. However, security of your 
machine is
 up to you. Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

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 --
 Mary Fernandez
 Emory 2012
 "Do I dare
 Disturb the universe?
 In a minute there is time
 For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
 --
 T.S. Eliot

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From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Fri Mar 23 04:45:20 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 21:45:20 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net><B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria><CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com><CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com><FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc><CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com><32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu><CAO83KOvHiGx61gOxTgtwNnyukWx97K6QgJcTZyR8msfz-WF31w@mail.gmail.com><A5AC35EEA51C4ABF8025D7D27AD2404D@stanford.edu><CAO83KOtyMQf7hQWVgB_0s+Oh4pFP13gbyuDKQju3uQDQj+T37A@mail.gmail.com><08EB12E8B19546638FBB31F8B02AEBA7@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOumwgKvqXkYo7Ec6ivHqDodd0giO9eqAMU_RJg1FZtjAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <262F254DAE1443A6AB372AC40BF1FFE5@stanford.edu>

I am not trying to be rude or condescending, but there is something that I 
need to know. Is it that all other guide dog schools are to difficult to get 
to for some reason, or is it that you just don't want to travel that far 
from home? And, this is not just about the guide dog schools; this is about 
everything.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


It's closer to Arkansas, (where I live.)
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Is that the only school that you would consider?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> I'm allergic to cats, dogs, and horses.
> I'm not sure, if Guiding Eyes trains poodles.
> That's an interesting question, and those of you, that received your
> dogs from there, may be able to answer that.
> If so, I might be on the lookout for one.
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> No dog is 100% allergy causing free, but most people who are allergic to
>> dogs are not allergic to poodles or labordoodles. That being said, I 
>> would
>> like to know how many people are allergic to dogs.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:33 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
>> has an allergy to dogs.
>> That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
>> I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
>> Nicole, do you know if they do?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they 
>>> are
>>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one
>>> for
>>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs 
>>> can
>>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However, 
>>> there
>>> is
>>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't 
>>> like
>>> it
>>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>>
>>> Nicole
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello All,
>>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
>>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
>>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
>>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
>>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
>>> story.
>>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
>>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
>>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
>>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
>>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
>>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
>>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
>>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
>>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
>>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
>>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
>>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
>>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
>>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
>>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
>>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
>>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
>>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
>>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
>>> blind however, all bets are off.
>>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
>>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
>>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
>>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
>>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
>>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
>>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
>>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
>>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
>>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
>>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
>>> mere visual acuity.
>>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
>>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
>>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>>>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
>>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
>>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
>>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
>>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
>>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
>>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
>>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
>>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
>>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
>>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
>>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
>>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
>>> them all.
>>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
>>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
>>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
>>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
>>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
>>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Mary
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind
>>>> people
>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Doug
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>>>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for 
>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your 
>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many 
>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with 
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you
>>>>>>>> meet
>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I 
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I 
>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have 
>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a 
>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its 
>>>>>> contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mary Fernandez
>>> Emory 2012
>>> "Do I dare
>>> Disturb the universe?
>>> In a minute there is time
>>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>>> --
>>> T.S. Eliot
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
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From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 04:48:46 2012
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 23:48:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <262F254DAE1443A6AB372AC40BF1FFE5@stanford.edu>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>
	<CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOvHiGx61gOxTgtwNnyukWx97K6QgJcTZyR8msfz-WF31w@mail.gmail.com>
	<A5AC35EEA51C4ABF8025D7D27AD2404D@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOtyMQf7hQWVgB_0s+Oh4pFP13gbyuDKQju3uQDQj+T37A@mail.gmail.com>
	<08EB12E8B19546638FBB31F8B02AEBA7@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOumwgKvqXkYo7Ec6ivHqDodd0giO9eqAMU_RJg1FZtjAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<262F254DAE1443A6AB372AC40BF1FFE5@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <CAHox4DL8yqwM-izKHCA1E+No+LJBTpFiTpnGFc6PeEQy2ALn-A@mail.gmail.com>

Guiding Eyes did not train poodles when I went there in 2008, but last
I heard, they were considering or working on training them.  I do not
know the schools that are currently known for training dogs for people
with allergies.  Living in the midwest means that you are near no dog
schools.

On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> I am not trying to be rude or condescending, but there is something that I
> need to know. Is it that all other guide dog schools are to difficult to get
> to for some reason, or is it that you just don't want to travel that far
> from home? And, this is not just about the guide dog schools; this is about
> everything.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> It's closer to Arkansas, (where I live.)
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> Is that the only school that you would consider?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> I'm allergic to cats, dogs, and horses.
>> I'm not sure, if Guiding Eyes trains poodles.
>> That's an interesting question, and those of you, that received your
>> dogs from there, may be able to answer that.
>> If so, I might be on the lookout for one.
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>> No dog is 100% allergy causing free, but most people who are allergic to
>>> dogs are not allergic to poodles or labordoodles. That being said, I
>>> would
>>> like to know how many people are allergic to dogs.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:33 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
>>> has an allergy to dogs.
>>> That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
>>> I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
>>> Nicole, do you know if they do?
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they
>>>> are
>>>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one
>>>> for
>>>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs
>>>> can
>>>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However,
>>>> there
>>>> is
>>>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't
>>>> like
>>>> it
>>>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>>>
>>>> Nicole
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello All,
>>>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>>>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>>>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
>>>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
>>>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
>>>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
>>>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
>>>> story.
>>>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
>>>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
>>>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
>>>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
>>>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>>>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
>>>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
>>>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
>>>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
>>>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
>>>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>>>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>>>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
>>>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
>>>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>>>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
>>>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>>>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
>>>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
>>>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>>>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
>>>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
>>>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
>>>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>>>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
>>>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
>>>> blind however, all bets are off.
>>>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
>>>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
>>>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
>>>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
>>>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
>>>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
>>>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>>>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>>>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
>>>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
>>>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
>>>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>>>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>>>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
>>>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
>>>> mere visual acuity.
>>>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>>>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
>>>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
>>>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>>>>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
>>>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
>>>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>>>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
>>>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>>>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
>>>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
>>>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
>>>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
>>>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
>>>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
>>>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
>>>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
>>>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>>>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
>>>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
>>>> them all.
>>>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
>>>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
>>>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
>>>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
>>>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
>>>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Mary
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind
>>>>> people
>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>> Take care,
>>>>> Doug
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>>>>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you
>>>>>>>>> meet
>>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mary Fernandez
>>>> Emory 2012
>>>> "Do I dare
>>>> Disturb the universe?
>>>> In a minute there is time
>>>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>>>> --
>>>> T.S. Eliot
>>>>
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-- 
Julie McG
 Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
of Missouri recording secretary,
and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
life."
John 3:16


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Mar 23 04:50:29 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 23:50:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <262F254DAE1443A6AB372AC40BF1FFE5@stanford.edu>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>
	<CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOvHiGx61gOxTgtwNnyukWx97K6QgJcTZyR8msfz-WF31w@mail.gmail.com>
	<A5AC35EEA51C4ABF8025D7D27AD2404D@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOtyMQf7hQWVgB_0s+Oh4pFP13gbyuDKQju3uQDQj+T37A@mail.gmail.com>
	<08EB12E8B19546638FBB31F8B02AEBA7@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOumwgKvqXkYo7Ec6ivHqDodd0giO9eqAMU_RJg1FZtjAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<262F254DAE1443A6AB372AC40BF1FFE5@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtH9_acwJ+O+3R3UCzD11p9JWTgzB0ZnBxErDyeKtX=ug@mail.gmail.com>

I have to stay, closer to home, due to my mom's health.
She's diabetic, and has lost a leg, due to diabetes.
I have to be close by, in case, (God forbid,) something happens to her.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> I am not trying to be rude or condescending, but there is something that I
> need to know. Is it that all other guide dog schools are to difficult to get
> to for some reason, or is it that you just don't want to travel that far
> from home? And, this is not just about the guide dog schools; this is about
> everything.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> It's closer to Arkansas, (where I live.)
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> Is that the only school that you would consider?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> I'm allergic to cats, dogs, and horses.
>> I'm not sure, if Guiding Eyes trains poodles.
>> That's an interesting question, and those of you, that received your
>> dogs from there, may be able to answer that.
>> If so, I might be on the lookout for one.
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>> No dog is 100% allergy causing free, but most people who are allergic to
>>> dogs are not allergic to poodles or labordoodles. That being said, I
>>> would
>>> like to know how many people are allergic to dogs.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:33 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
>>> has an allergy to dogs.
>>> That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
>>> I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
>>> Nicole, do you know if they do?
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they
>>>> are
>>>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one
>>>> for
>>>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs
>>>> can
>>>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However,
>>>> there
>>>> is
>>>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't
>>>> like
>>>> it
>>>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>>>
>>>> Nicole
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello All,
>>>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>>>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>>>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
>>>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
>>>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
>>>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
>>>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
>>>> story.
>>>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
>>>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
>>>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
>>>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
>>>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>>>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
>>>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
>>>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
>>>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
>>>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
>>>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>>>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>>>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
>>>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
>>>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>>>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
>>>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>>>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
>>>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
>>>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>>>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
>>>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
>>>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
>>>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>>>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
>>>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
>>>> blind however, all bets are off.
>>>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
>>>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
>>>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
>>>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
>>>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
>>>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
>>>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>>>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>>>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
>>>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
>>>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
>>>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>>>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>>>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
>>>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
>>>> mere visual acuity.
>>>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>>>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
>>>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
>>>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>>>>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
>>>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
>>>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>>>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
>>>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>>>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
>>>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
>>>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
>>>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
>>>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
>>>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
>>>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
>>>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
>>>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>>>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
>>>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
>>>> them all.
>>>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
>>>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
>>>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
>>>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
>>>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
>>>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Mary
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind
>>>>> people
>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>> Take care,
>>>>> Doug
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>>>>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you
>>>>>>>>> meet
>>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
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>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
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>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mary Fernandez
>>>> Emory 2012
>>>> "Do I dare
>>>> Disturb the universe?
>>>> In a minute there is time
>>>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>>>> --
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Mar 23 04:53:30 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 23:53:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DL8yqwM-izKHCA1E+No+LJBTpFiTpnGFc6PeEQy2ALn-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>
	<CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOvHiGx61gOxTgtwNnyukWx97K6QgJcTZyR8msfz-WF31w@mail.gmail.com>
	<A5AC35EEA51C4ABF8025D7D27AD2404D@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOtyMQf7hQWVgB_0s+Oh4pFP13gbyuDKQju3uQDQj+T37A@mail.gmail.com>
	<08EB12E8B19546638FBB31F8B02AEBA7@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOumwgKvqXkYo7Ec6ivHqDodd0giO9eqAMU_RJg1FZtjAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<262F254DAE1443A6AB372AC40BF1FFE5@stanford.edu>
	<CAHox4DL8yqwM-izKHCA1E+No+LJBTpFiTpnGFc6PeEQy2ALn-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtwAo4_nK81+oJCxN7+6OtpDpTkZfutLyk_z0b7OmfinA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the information!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Julie McGinnity <kaybaycar at gmail.com> wrote:
> Guiding Eyes did not train poodles when I went there in 2008, but last
> I heard, they were considering or working on training them.  I do not
> know the schools that are currently known for training dogs for people
> with allergies.  Living in the midwest means that you are near no dog
> schools.
>
> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> I am not trying to be rude or condescending, but there is something that I
>> need to know. Is it that all other guide dog schools are to difficult to
>> get
>> to for some reason, or is it that you just don't want to travel that far
>> from home? And, this is not just about the guide dog schools; this is
>> about
>> everything.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> It's closer to Arkansas, (where I live.)
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>> Is that the only school that you would consider?
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:50 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm allergic to cats, dogs, and horses.
>>> I'm not sure, if Guiding Eyes trains poodles.
>>> That's an interesting question, and those of you, that received your
>>> dogs from there, may be able to answer that.
>>> If so, I might be on the lookout for one.
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>>> No dog is 100% allergy causing free, but most people who are allergic to
>>>> dogs are not allergic to poodles or labordoodles. That being said, I
>>>> would
>>>> like to know how many people are allergic to dogs.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:33 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
>>>> has an allergy to dogs.
>>>> That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
>>>> I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
>>>> Nicole, do you know if they do?
>>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they
>>>>> are
>>>>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want
>>>>> one
>>>>> for
>>>>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs
>>>>> can
>>>>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However,
>>>>> there
>>>>> is
>>>>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't
>>>>> like
>>>>> it
>>>>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>>>>
>>>>> Nicole
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>>>>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>>>>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
>>>>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
>>>>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
>>>>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
>>>>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
>>>>> story.
>>>>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
>>>>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
>>>>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
>>>>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
>>>>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>>>>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
>>>>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
>>>>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
>>>>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
>>>>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
>>>>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>>>>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>>>>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
>>>>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
>>>>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>>>>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
>>>>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>>>>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
>>>>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
>>>>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>>>>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
>>>>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
>>>>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
>>>>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>>>>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
>>>>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
>>>>> blind however, all bets are off.
>>>>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
>>>>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
>>>>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
>>>>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
>>>>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
>>>>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
>>>>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>>>>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>>>>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
>>>>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
>>>>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
>>>>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>>>>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>>>>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
>>>>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
>>>>> mere visual acuity.
>>>>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>>>>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
>>>>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
>>>>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>>>>>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
>>>>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
>>>>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>>>>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
>>>>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>>>>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
>>>>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
>>>>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
>>>>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
>>>>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
>>>>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
>>>>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
>>>>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
>>>>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>>>>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
>>>>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
>>>>> them all.
>>>>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
>>>>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
>>>>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
>>>>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
>>>>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
>>>>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Mary
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>>>>>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have
>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you
>>>>>>>>>> meet
>>>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>>>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mary Fernandez
>>>>> Emory 2012
>>>>> "Do I dare
>>>>> Disturb the universe?
>>>>> In a minute there is time
>>>>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>>>>> --
>>>>> T.S. Eliot
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Julie McG
>  Lindbergh High School class of 2009, National Federation of the Blind
> of Missouri recording secretary,
> and proud graduate of Guiding Eyes for the Blind
>
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that
> everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal
> life."
> John 3:16
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Fri Mar 23 05:05:33 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 22:05:33 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <CAO83KOtH9_acwJ+O+3R3UCzD11p9JWTgzB0ZnBxErDyeKtX=ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E066BCC9702C4EAC9156B3C2EB496B92@stanford.edu>

Then I apologize.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


I have to stay, closer to home, due to my mom's health.
She's diabetic, and has lost a leg, due to diabetes.
I have to be close by, in case, (God forbid,) something happens to her.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> I am not trying to be rude or condescending, but there is something that I
> need to know. Is it that all other guide dog schools are to difficult to 
> get
> to for some reason, or is it that you just don't want to travel that far
> from home? And, this is not just about the guide dog schools; this is 
> about
> everything.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:57 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> It's closer to Arkansas, (where I live.)
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> Is that the only school that you would consider?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> I'm allergic to cats, dogs, and horses.
>> I'm not sure, if Guiding Eyes trains poodles.
>> That's an interesting question, and those of you, that received your
>> dogs from there, may be able to answer that.
>> If so, I might be on the lookout for one.
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>> No dog is 100% allergy causing free, but most people who are allergic to
>>> dogs are not allergic to poodles or labordoodles. That being said, I
>>> would
>>> like to know how many people are allergic to dogs.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:33 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
>>> has an allergy to dogs.
>>> That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
>>> I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
>>> Nicole, do you know if they do?
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they
>>>> are
>>>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want 
>>>> one
>>>> for
>>>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs
>>>> can
>>>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However,
>>>> there
>>>> is
>>>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't
>>>> like
>>>> it
>>>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>>>
>>>> Nicole
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello All,
>>>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>>>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>>>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
>>>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
>>>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
>>>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
>>>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
>>>> story.
>>>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
>>>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
>>>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
>>>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
>>>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>>>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
>>>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
>>>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
>>>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
>>>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
>>>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>>>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>>>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
>>>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
>>>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>>>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
>>>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>>>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
>>>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
>>>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>>>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
>>>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
>>>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
>>>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>>>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
>>>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
>>>> blind however, all bets are off.
>>>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
>>>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
>>>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
>>>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
>>>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
>>>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
>>>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>>>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>>>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
>>>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
>>>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
>>>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>>>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>>>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
>>>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
>>>> mere visual acuity.
>>>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>>>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
>>>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
>>>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>>>>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
>>>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
>>>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>>>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
>>>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>>>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
>>>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
>>>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
>>>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
>>>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
>>>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
>>>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
>>>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
>>>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>>>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
>>>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
>>>> them all.
>>>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
>>>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
>>>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
>>>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
>>>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
>>>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Mary
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind
>>>>> people
>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>> Take care,
>>>>> Doug
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>>>>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness 
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more 
>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness 
>>>>>> during
>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at 
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have 
>>>>>> done
>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind 
>>>>>> person
>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, 
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like 
>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of 
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, 
>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why 
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, 
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you
>>>>>>>>> meet
>>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh 
>>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look 
>>>>>>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, 
>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mary Fernandez
>>>> Emory 2012
>>>> "Do I dare
>>>> Disturb the universe?
>>>> In a minute there is time
>>>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>>>> --
>>>> T.S. Eliot
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Mar 23 05:08:50 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 00:08:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <E066BCC9702C4EAC9156B3C2EB496B92@stanford.edu>
References: <CAO83KOtH9_acwJ+O+3R3UCzD11p9JWTgzB0ZnBxErDyeKtX=ug@mail.gmail.com>
	<E066BCC9702C4EAC9156B3C2EB496B92@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOt16qysgCu8E_dn7WCRPF3CxQiFtFXV2iAi=+axVjL93A@mail.gmail.com>

No problem.
I wasn't offended.
Guiding Eyes is also closer to Indiana, where I have relatives, as well.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/23/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> Then I apologize.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 9:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> I have to stay, closer to home, due to my mom's health.
> She's diabetic, and has lost a leg, due to diabetes.
> I have to be close by, in case, (God forbid,) something happens to her.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> I am not trying to be rude or condescending, but there is something that I
>> need to know. Is it that all other guide dog schools are to difficult to
>> get
>> to for some reason, or is it that you just don't want to travel that far
>> from home? And, this is not just about the guide dog schools; this is
>> about
>> everything.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:57 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> It's closer to Arkansas, (where I live.)
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>> Is that the only school that you would consider?
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:50 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm allergic to cats, dogs, and horses.
>>> I'm not sure, if Guiding Eyes trains poodles.
>>> That's an interesting question, and those of you, that received your
>>> dogs from there, may be able to answer that.
>>> If so, I might be on the lookout for one.
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>>> No dog is 100% allergy causing free, but most people who are allergic to
>>>> dogs are not allergic to poodles or labordoodles. That being said, I
>>>> would
>>>> like to know how many people are allergic to dogs.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:33 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
>>>> has an allergy to dogs.
>>>> That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
>>>> I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
>>>> Nicole, do you know if they do?
>>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they
>>>>> are
>>>>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want
>>>>> one
>>>>> for
>>>>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs
>>>>> can
>>>>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However,
>>>>> there
>>>>> is
>>>>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't
>>>>> like
>>>>> it
>>>>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>>>>
>>>>> Nicole
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>>>>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>>>>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
>>>>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
>>>>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
>>>>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
>>>>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
>>>>> story.
>>>>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
>>>>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
>>>>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
>>>>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
>>>>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>>>>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
>>>>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
>>>>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
>>>>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
>>>>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
>>>>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>>>>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>>>>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
>>>>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
>>>>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>>>>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
>>>>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>>>>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
>>>>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
>>>>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>>>>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
>>>>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
>>>>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
>>>>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>>>>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
>>>>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
>>>>> blind however, all bets are off.
>>>>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
>>>>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
>>>>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
>>>>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
>>>>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
>>>>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
>>>>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>>>>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>>>>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
>>>>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
>>>>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
>>>>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>>>>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>>>>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
>>>>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
>>>>> mere visual acuity.
>>>>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>>>>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
>>>>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
>>>>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>>>>>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
>>>>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
>>>>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>>>>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
>>>>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>>>>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
>>>>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
>>>>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
>>>>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
>>>>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
>>>>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
>>>>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
>>>>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
>>>>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>>>>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
>>>>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
>>>>> them all.
>>>>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
>>>>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
>>>>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
>>>>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
>>>>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
>>>>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Mary
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>>>>>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have
>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you
>>>>>>>>>> meet
>>>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>>>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mary Fernandez
>>>>> Emory 2012
>>>>> "Do I dare
>>>>> Disturb the universe?
>>>>> In a minute there is time
>>>>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>>>>> --
>>>>> T.S. Eliot
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>
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From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 05:11:25 2012
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 01:11:25 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <4f6bfd45.6232b60a.1779.622a@mx.google.com>
References: <4f6bfd45.6232b60a.1779.622a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAF2O2CwdjZe0RpTo+k3ENoJjRuXenSe92X2-zHdb8VXM_eQN3g@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Beth,

There is a list that serves Muslim dog guide owners, and many on that
list will tell you that animals for purposes of assistance are
permitted in the Quor'an, although, as you say, Somalis haven't
advanced to that point yet for the most part.

On 23.03.2012, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
> Good point, Ignasi.  They say that service animals are pure and
> not dirty, but back then, there was no such thing as a guide dog.
> The concept of guide dogs is new compared to the way Islamic
> thinking has evolved, which is not much.  There are people who
> believe that helping dogs are pure, but it's hard to get the
> Somalis to get that through their heads.
> beth
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 00:22:35 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
> Would you give up on all the benefits of having a guide dog just
> because at some point a long time ago someone decided that dogs
> arr
> not pure...?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 22, 2012, at 10:47 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>  For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want
> or any Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
>  Beth
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>  I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that
> they are
>  not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you
> want one for
>  this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide
> dogs can
>  sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.
> However, there is
>  of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs
> don't like it
>  when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>
>  Nicole
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  Hello All,
>  This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>  dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard
> for
>  someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average
> height,
>  someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be
> hard for
>  anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall
> squarely in
>  the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.
> Even
>  geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a
> true
>  story.
>  I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend
> of
>  mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon,
> is
>  that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that
> most
>  people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual
> being,
>  who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>  Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and
> other
>  hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone
> and go
>  on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves
> even
>  more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with
> our
>  self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like
> this:
>  Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>  If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>  though not always, make a comment which will spark off
> conversation.
>  If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation
> she will
>  angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>  stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection,
> casual
>  touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>  Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman
> walk
>  into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted
> requests
>  to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed
> to
>  enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about
> blindness
>  will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal
> courting
>  sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't
> there
>  before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>  instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at
> parties
>  and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out
> your
>  blind however, all bets are off.
>  This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not
> have a
>  dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly
> successful in
>  dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like
> Arielle
>  and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should
> be
>  irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and
> consider as a
>  potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that
> come
>  into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>  intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>  parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal
> ideas
>  they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but
> decide to
>  stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are
> so
>  incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from
> each
>  other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>  thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the
> person
>  despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship
> than
>  mere visual acuity.
>  So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>  explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something
> your
>  into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally
> something
>  I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all
> means. Be
>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the
> local
>  bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house
> parties. But
>  most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for
> a
>  sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never
> ends
>  well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>  completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full
> happy and
>  fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by
> the
>  sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But,
> you do
>  learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more
> thing
>  we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the
> experience of
>  friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people,
> because
>  it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since
> they
>  have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people
> who
>  think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>  experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's
> perspective.
>  All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones
> among
>  them all.
>  A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual
> reference
>  to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best
> features of
>  yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college
> chic,
>  when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.
> Because I
>  have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get
> some
>  delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>  Sincerely,
>  Mary
>
>  On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>  My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
> blind people
>  growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
> person.
>  We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>  Take care,
>  Doug
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  Hello all,
>  Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
> own
>  experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people
> online. As a
>  matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online,
> and he
>  is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
> and I
>  have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
> some of
>  what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
> and
>  bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more
> disastrous
>  because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
> actually
>  got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
> were
>  present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of
> us
>  being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
> could
>  meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and
> that was
>  a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part
> of
>  another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>  actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
> was
>  hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
> person
>  besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
> met
>  sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
> sites. I
>  met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
> opinion,
>  that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
> things
>  in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
> most
>  people have said already, one of the main things to consider
> when
>  dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
> share in
>  common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
> sighted
>  person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>  sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>  haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>  mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
> it
>  really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>  mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with
> most of
>  these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends
> online, and
>  basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
> said,
>  I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
> from a
>  blind person. A blind person might be a little more
> understanding
>  considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
> other
>  side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
> completely
>  adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
> their
>  entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
> such
>  as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
> can
>  have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
> to
>  handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>
>
>  On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi all,
>  I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
> was on
>  a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
> didn't
>  find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>  friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
> the
>  whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
> first
>  dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
> blindness was
>  revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
> find
>  someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
> public
>  place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
> profile up
>  and seeing what happens.
>  Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>  Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
> my
>  sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
> sites.
>  I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
> and
>  said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
> attractive
>  and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
> the
>  people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
> hence
>  are better catches.
>  I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
> during
>  an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
> profiles,
>  others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
> at some
>  point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
> and
>  reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
> before
>  we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
> when
>  they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
> happen at
>  any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
> would
>  prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
> get to
>  know you before they learn about your blindness.
>  Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
> have done
>  both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
> person
>  or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
> thinking.
>  I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
> the
>  same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
> blind. I
>  will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
> was
>  easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
> what
>  nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
> my
>  nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
> relationship I
>  have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
> with the
>  other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
> think
>  of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
> blindness
>  status, it's important for you and your partner to share
> interests and
>  passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
> us
>  share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
> there
>  are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>  around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
> passions
>  with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>  deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
> I
>  think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>  common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
> to
>  meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
> singles'
>  parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
> your
>  interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
> division,
>  classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
> better
>  way to build lasting connections.
>  Arielle
>
>  On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
> simply for
>  the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
> like
>  that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
> general
>  sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
> etc
>  to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>
>  Later.
>
>  On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  Hello Robin,
>
>  Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
> learn
>  from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
> others.
>  As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
> Not
>  dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
> and
>  more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
> options,
>  just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
> being
>  rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
> people
>  have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>  blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to
> necessarily
>  feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
> etc
>  etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
> questions.
>  Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>  educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
> willing
>  to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
> not
>  just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>  status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
> that
>  are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>  (whether online or not).
>
>  Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
> your
>  dating search.
>
>  Nimer J
>
>  On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>  Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
> that
>  pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
> you meet
>  them, they're a criminal.
>  Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>  Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
> yes,
>  there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>  Blessings, Joshua
>
>  On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi,
>  I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
> would
>  be
>  very
>  careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
> as
>  they
>  appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
> find
>  that
>  there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
> feel
>  that
>  is
>  a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
> a
>  daily
>  basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
> found
>  there
>  are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially
> when
>  they
>  are
>  confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
> sited
>  person
>  for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>  To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>  Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  Hello to everyone,
>  I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>  dating
>  and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
> you
>  had
>  with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
> forward to
>  hearing your stories.
>
>
>  I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>  Perhaps
>  there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
> like a
>  breeze
>
>  among flowers.
>  Hellen Keller
>
>
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>
>  --
>  Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
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>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
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> contents
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>  attachments for security threats. However, security of your
> machine is
>  up to you. Thanks.
>
>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>  http://counter.li.org/
>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
> system,
>  please click here:
>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
> XP
>  and above, please click here:
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>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
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>
>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
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>
>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
> (720)
>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>
>
>  --
>  Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>  addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
> recipient,
>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>  correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
> contents
>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
> or
>  criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>  attachments for security threats. However, security of your
> machine is
>  up to you. Thanks.
>
>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>  http://counter.li.org/
>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
> system,
>  please click here:
>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
> XP
>  and above, please click here:
>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>
>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
> news.
>
>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
> (720)
>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
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>
>  --
>  Mary Fernandez
>  Emory 2012
>  "Do I dare
>  Disturb the universe?
>  In a minute there is time
>  For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>  --
>  T.S. Eliot
>
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-- 
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From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Fri Mar 23 05:37:52 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 01:37:52 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<000b01cd08ab$f55e7310$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAO83KOv9B2XFdhuPMb5JS8HVcjwKqpNaAhUEy-QcVoYQNL_ctg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005801cd08b7$1758b7e0$1400ba43@BRIAN>

I realize that but she and I both shared similar experiences in dating.  I 
was with a woman who lived in my town who was sighted but cheated on me in 
the end.  Also high school is different because you are not an adult yet. 
>From what I've scene from my friends in long distance relationships who are 
in their mid 20's and graduated from college that these relationships do 
have a better chance of working out because of your maturity and willingness 
to leave your given area.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 12:26 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


>I was in a long-distance relationship, in high school.
> I met this girl, at the Beta Club convention, and we started calling
> each other, but later on, I found out, that she wasn't as committed to
> me, as I was to her.
> We ended up, breaking up, after our graduation, in 2007.
> That's the main problem, with long-distance relationships.
> You never know, if the people you're dating, from far away, are
> actually being faithful to you, or if they're seeing someone else, in
> their area.
> It's always great, to find someone, in your area, or close by.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> I myself am blind and am starting to get to know a sighted woman who I've
>> liked since my high School years.  We connected about three weeks ago via
>> face book     and have been talking every day and night via phone and 
>> email.
>> The funny thing is we both now realize that we have deep feelings for 
>> each
>> other and they get stronger as the days go on. I have liked this girl for
>> over ten  years and feel that she is the one.    The only trouble is that
>> she is in Rodchester New York and I am hear in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. I
>> feel that the travel is doable in my opinion.    So the two part 
>> question
>> to people out hear is:
>>
>> 1.  Is anyone out hear in a long distance relationship?  What advantages 
>> and
>> disadvantages do you see in it?  Also how do you overcome those obstacles
>> that these relationships bring.
>>
>> 2. I am looking at eventually moving out to Rodchester to be close to her
>> and am wondering how do you decide who moves or who stays put.  She has a
>> masters degree and a good job at one of the universities out their but 
>> also
>> her field I feel is open to anywhere in the US and so is mine.    I 
>> myself
>> have a BA in radio     broadcasting and mass communications and  am 
>> willing
>> to start in a smaller market like the Buffalo Rodchester market. I have
>> radio connections in the Rodchester market from a long time friend and
>> mentor who I have known for seven  years and who  has been very 
>> encouraging
>> to me and has given me good advice through out college. How should I
>> approach him about a possible job or internship where I can get my foot 
>> in
>> the door?  He seems like the type of person that is willing to give me a
>> chance.   I am     also     looking at getting a master's in either a
>> related field or seminary theological work and I am definitely    not 
>> tied
>> down to Pittsburgh for any of these situations. I     am very  willing to
>> relocate for new experiences and opportunities in my life. In laymonds 
>> terms
>> I am ready to       go anywhere.   how are the transportation services 
>> out
>> in Rodchester because I don't want to have to rely on her all the time to
>> drive me places. I am very self motivated and independent and love the 
>> NFB's
>> philosophies.  I just wish I would've been exposed to them back in high
>> school so I could've been more confident in myself.  It took me until the
>> age of 27 to develop my confidence and I am very proud of myself in the
>> strides I have made through out my college and young adult years.  I am
>> getting to the age right now where most of my college friends are either
>> married or engaged and I would really like that opportunity for myself. I
>> feel that this city of Pittsburgh is holding me back from new adventures 
>> and
>> I am ready to leave it behind and conquer new challenges in 2012 and 
>> beyond.
>> Thanks for any help and information that you can give and sorry if I am
>> rambling.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 5:47 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>> Hello to everyone,
>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online dating
>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you had
>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
>>> hearing your stories.
>>>
>>>
>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps
>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a 
>>> breeze
>>>
>>> among flowers.
>>> Hellen Keller
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Fri Mar 23 05:39:32 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 01:39:32 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>
	<CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOvHiGx61gOxTgtwNnyukWx97K6QgJcTZyR8msfz-WF31w@mail.gmail.com>
	<2599025500340304469@unknownmsgid>
	<CAO83KOs_fUOOufMnRGw28GNkoYkkpR87MXgomK6K6m-yKhRR0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADit0-vyaMFCtjz6nfrVU8+cq1usm-5t7MMugf90g9+LdOeM6A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005e01cd08b7$5365f2c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>

Thanks Mary.  I intend to do this!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


Hi all,
As to long distance relationships, the main drawback is the obvious,
you don't see each other as often. Bryan if you think you and this
girl can have a good future, then I suggest you start seeing each
other one weekend a month or so. See how things work out, and see if
there are times when you can see each other more often. Once you have
that face to face and build a relationship from there, then I think
that the moving question will come up naturally and you can decide
together. You can innumerate all the reasons you've listed here to
her, etc. But based on three weeks, I wouldn't be making any life
decisions. Take it easy and get to know each other well.
Sincerely,
Mary

On 3/23/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> Thanks!
> I'll ask around, and try to go to Guiding Eyes, after I graduate college.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
>> They do. Caniche dogs work very well as guide dogs I think, and you
>> shouldn't have any trouble with those...
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 22, 2012, at 10:35 PM, Joshua Lester
>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
>>> has an allergy to dogs.
>>> That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
>>> I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
>>> Nicole, do you know if they do?
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they
>>>> are
>>>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want 
>>>> one
>>>> for
>>>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs
>>>> can
>>>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However,
>>>> there
>>>> is
>>>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't
>>>> like
>>>> it
>>>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>>>
>>>> Nicole
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello All,
>>>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>>>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>>>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
>>>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
>>>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
>>>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
>>>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
>>>> story.
>>>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
>>>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
>>>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
>>>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
>>>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>>>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
>>>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
>>>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
>>>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
>>>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
>>>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>>>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>>>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
>>>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
>>>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>>>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
>>>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>>>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
>>>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
>>>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>>>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
>>>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
>>>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
>>>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>>>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
>>>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
>>>> blind however, all bets are off.
>>>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
>>>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
>>>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
>>>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
>>>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
>>>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
>>>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>>>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>>>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
>>>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
>>>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
>>>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>>>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>>>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
>>>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
>>>> mere visual acuity.
>>>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>>>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
>>>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
>>>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>>>> creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
>>>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
>>>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>>>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
>>>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>>>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
>>>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
>>>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
>>>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
>>>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
>>>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
>>>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
>>>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
>>>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>>>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
>>>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
>>>> them all.
>>>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
>>>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
>>>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
>>>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
>>>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
>>>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Mary
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind
>>>>> people
>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>> Take care,
>>>>> Doug
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>>>>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness 
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more 
>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness 
>>>>>> during
>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at 
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have 
>>>>>> done
>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind 
>>>>>> person
>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests 
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, 
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like 
>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of 
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, 
>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why 
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, 
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you
>>>>>>>>> meet
>>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh 
>>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look 
>>>>>>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, 
>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mary Fernandez
>>>> Emory 2012
>>>> "Do I dare
>>>> Disturb the universe?
>>>> In a minute there is time
>>>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>>>> --
>>>> T.S. Eliot
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
Emory 2012
"Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
--
T.S. Eliot

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net 




From leanicole1988 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 05:54:57 2012
From: leanicole1988 at gmail.com (Lea williams)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 01:54:57 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Asking People to Write Off List Re: Dating &
 Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <-8101819840379197912@unknownmsgid>
References: <4f6be3ef.e938b60a.3825.4c95@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOvQp2CLf+7Y4emWP3Xw5fsTe+L8evncUVFhbAaifsoZww@mail.gmail.com>
	<A19E63C2E0554E8BB6904E628590C91D@stanford.edu>
	<-8101819840379197912@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CAD0KW=byKVE_SGgvE=rbk=qHifiSv0FdG5gd+a5VE-80LdNvdg@mail.gmail.com>

I also think it is funny when someone rights:

I emailed you, did you get it? I have not gotten a reply from you.
Please email me off list.

Or something along this line. And then a few days later a simular
email goes out again from the same person and you can tell that the
person for whom the messages aare for most likely are ignoring the
person requesting the contact.

On 3/23/12, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
> I truly appreciate that there's someone on this list to ask this kind
> of questions!!!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 22, 2012, at 11:55 PM, "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home"
> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>
>> Before you ask people to write to you off list, do you try writing to them
>> off list first?
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester"
>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:51 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Wow!
>> I think Jews, (depending on which group,) believe the same thing.
>> BTW, Beth, will you be at convention, this year?
>> Please E-mail me offlist.
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want or
>>> any Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
>>> Beth
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that
>>> they are
>>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you
>>> want one for
>>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide
>>> dogs can
>>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.
>>> However, there is
>>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs
>>> don't like it
>>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>>
>>> Nicole
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello All,
>>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average
>>> height,
>>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be
>>> hard for
>>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall
>>> squarely in
>>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.
>>> Even
>>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a
>>> true
>>> story.
>>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend
>>> of
>>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon,
>>> is
>>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that
>>> most
>>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual
>>> being,
>>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and
>>> other
>>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and
>>> go
>>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves
>>> even
>>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with
>>> our
>>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like
>>> this:
>>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off
>>> conversation.
>>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she
>>> will
>>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection,
>>> casual
>>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman
>>> walk
>>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted
>>> requests
>>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about
>>> blindness
>>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal
>>> courting
>>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't
>>> there
>>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at
>>> parties
>>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out
>>> your
>>> blind however, all bets are off.
>>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not
>>> have a
>>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful
>>> in
>>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like
>>> Arielle
>>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should
>>> be
>>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider
>>> as a
>>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that
>>> come
>>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal
>>> ideas
>>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but
>>> decide to
>>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are
>>> so
>>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the
>>> person
>>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship
>>> than
>>> mere visual acuity.
>>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something
>>> your
>>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally
>>> something
>>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all
>>> means. Be
>>> creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the
>>> local
>>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house
>>> parties. But
>>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never
>>> ends
>>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy
>>> and
>>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by
>>> the
>>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But,
>>> you do
>>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more
>>> thing
>>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the
>>> experience of
>>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people,
>>> because
>>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since
>>> they
>>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people
>>> who
>>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's
>>> perspective.
>>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones
>>> among
>>> them all.
>>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual
>>> reference
>>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features
>>> of
>>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college
>>> chic,
>>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.
>>> Because I
>>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get
>>> some
>>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Mary
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>> blind people
>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>> person.
>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>> Take care,
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>> own
>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people
>>> online. As a
>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online,
>>> and he
>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>> and I
>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>> some of
>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>> and
>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more
>>> disastrous
>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>> actually
>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>> were
>>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of
>>> us
>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>> could
>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and
>>> that was
>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part
>>> of
>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>> was
>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>> person
>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>> met
>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>> sites. I
>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>> opinion,
>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>> things
>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>> most
>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider
>>> when
>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>> share in
>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>> sighted
>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>> it
>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with
>>> most of
>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends
>>> online, and
>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>> said,
>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>> from a
>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more
>>> understanding
>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>> other
>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>> completely
>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>> their
>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>> such
>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>> can
>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>> to
>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>> was on
>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>> didn't
>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>> the
>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>> first
>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>> blindness was
>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>> find
>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>> public
>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>> profile up
>>> and seeing what happens.
>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>> my
>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>> sites.
>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>> and
>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>> attractive
>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>> the
>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>> hence
>>> are better catches.
>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>> during
>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>> profiles,
>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>> at some
>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>> and
>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>> before
>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>> when
>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>> happen at
>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>> would
>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>> get to
>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>> have done
>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>> person
>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>> thinking.
>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>> the
>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>> blind. I
>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>> was
>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>> what
>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>> my
>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>> relationship I
>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>> with the
>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>> think
>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>> blindness
>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>> interests and
>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>> us
>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>> there
>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>> passions
>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>> I
>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>> to
>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>> singles'
>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>> your
>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>> division,
>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>> better
>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>> simply for
>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>> like
>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>> general
>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>> etc
>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>
>>> Later.
>>>
>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> Hello Robin,
>>>
>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>> learn
>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>> others.
>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>> Not
>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>> and
>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>> options,
>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>> being
>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>> people
>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to
>>> necessarily
>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>> etc
>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>> questions.
>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>> willing
>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>> not
>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>> that
>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>> (whether online or not).
>>>
>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>> your
>>> dating search.
>>>
>>> Nimer J
>>>
>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>> that
>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>> you meet
>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>> yes,
>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>> would
>>> be
>>> very
>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>> as
>>> they
>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>> find
>>> that
>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>> feel
>>> that
>>> is
>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>> a
>>> daily
>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>> found
>>> there
>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially
>>> when
>>> they
>>> are
>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>> sited
>>> person
>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello to everyone,
>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>> dating
>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>> you
>>> had
>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>> forward to
>>> hearing your stories.
>>>
>>>
>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>> Perhaps
>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>> like a
>>> breeze
>>>
>>> among flowers.
>>> Hellen Keller
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>> %40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
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>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>> nabs-l:
>>>
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>>> 0gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>> recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>> contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>> or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>> machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>> system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>> XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>> news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>> (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>> recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>> contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>> or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>> machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>> system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>> XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>> news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>> (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>> mail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
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>>> 40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%4
>>> 0gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mary Fernandez
>>> Emory 2012
>>> "Do I dare
>>> Disturb the universe?
>>> In a minute there is time
>>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>>> --
>>> T.S. Eliot
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40
>>> wavecable.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l:
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-- 

Lea Williams

Phone;
704-732-4470
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From jty727 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 13:28:18 2012
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 09:28:18 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <005e01cd08b7$5365f2c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>
	<CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOvHiGx61gOxTgtwNnyukWx97K6QgJcTZyR8msfz-WF31w@mail.gmail.com>
	<2599025500340304469@unknownmsgid>
	<CAO83KOs_fUOOufMnRGw28GNkoYkkpR87MXgomK6K6m-yKhRR0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADit0-vyaMFCtjz6nfrVU8+cq1usm-5t7MMugf90g9+LdOeM6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<005e01cd08b7$5365f2c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s47X3t0dAuYBJf8y8R1YAniX9_xZ-iV=wYi7qfeM=fm8w@mail.gmail.com>

Brian,

Did you mean Rochester, NY?  I ask because I have never heard of
Rodchester.  I am a native Rochesterian and if you would like we could
discuss the transportation question you had off list if this is the
city you meant.

Justin

On 3/23/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> Thanks Mary.  I intend to do this!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 12:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hi all,
> As to long distance relationships, the main drawback is the obvious,
> you don't see each other as often. Bryan if you think you and this
> girl can have a good future, then I suggest you start seeing each
> other one weekend a month or so. See how things work out, and see if
> there are times when you can see each other more often. Once you have
> that face to face and build a relationship from there, then I think
> that the moving question will come up naturally and you can decide
> together. You can innumerate all the reasons you've listed here to
> her, etc. But based on three weeks, I wouldn't be making any life
> decisions. Take it easy and get to know each other well.
> Sincerely,
> Mary
>
> On 3/23/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> Thanks!
>> I'll ask around, and try to go to Guiding Eyes, after I graduate college.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> They do. Caniche dogs work very well as guide dogs I think, and you
>>> shouldn't have any trouble with those...
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 22, 2012, at 10:35 PM, Joshua Lester
>>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
>>>> has an allergy to dogs.
>>>> That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
>>>> I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
>>>> Nicole, do you know if they do?
>>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they
>>>>> are
>>>>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want
>>>>> one
>>>>> for
>>>>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs
>>>>> can
>>>>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However,
>>>>> there
>>>>> is
>>>>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't
>>>>> like
>>>>> it
>>>>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>>>>
>>>>> Nicole
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>>>>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>>>>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
>>>>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
>>>>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
>>>>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
>>>>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
>>>>> story.
>>>>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
>>>>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
>>>>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
>>>>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
>>>>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>>>>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
>>>>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
>>>>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
>>>>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
>>>>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
>>>>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>>>>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>>>>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
>>>>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
>>>>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>>>>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
>>>>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>>>>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
>>>>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
>>>>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>>>>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
>>>>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
>>>>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
>>>>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>>>>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
>>>>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
>>>>> blind however, all bets are off.
>>>>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
>>>>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
>>>>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
>>>>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
>>>>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
>>>>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
>>>>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>>>>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>>>>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
>>>>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
>>>>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
>>>>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>>>>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>>>>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
>>>>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
>>>>> mere visual acuity.
>>>>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>>>>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
>>>>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
>>>>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>>>>> creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
>>>>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
>>>>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>>>>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
>>>>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>>>>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
>>>>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
>>>>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
>>>>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
>>>>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
>>>>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
>>>>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
>>>>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
>>>>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>>>>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
>>>>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
>>>>> them all.
>>>>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
>>>>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
>>>>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
>>>>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
>>>>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
>>>>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Mary
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>>>>>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have
>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you
>>>>>>>>>> meet
>>>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>>>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mary Fernandez
>>>>> Emory 2012
>>>>> "Do I dare
>>>>> Disturb the universe?
>>>>> In a minute there is time
>>>>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>>>>> --
>>>>> T.S. Eliot
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory 2012
> "Do I dare
> Disturb the universe?
> In a minute there is time
> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
> --
> T.S. Eliot
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Fri Mar 23 14:29:31 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 10:29:31 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>
	<CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOvHiGx61gOxTgtwNnyukWx97K6QgJcTZyR8msfz-WF31w@mail.gmail.com>
	<2599025500340304469@unknownmsgid>
	<CAO83KOs_fUOOufMnRGw28GNkoYkkpR87MXgomK6K6m-yKhRR0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADit0-vyaMFCtjz6nfrVU8+cq1usm-5t7MMugf90g9+LdOeM6A@mail.gmail.com>
	<005e01cd08b7$5365f2c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CA+3U9s47X3t0dAuYBJf8y8R1YAniX9_xZ-iV=wYi7qfeM=fm8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002501cd0901$5d7ad240$1400ba43@BRIAN>

 Yes Justin I was talking about your home town!  Please email me off list at 
brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net.  Thanks!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Justin Young" <jty727 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


Brian,

Did you mean Rochester, NY?  I ask because I have never heard of
Rodchester.  I am a native Rochesterian and if you would like we could
discuss the transportation question you had off list if this is the
city you meant.

Justin

On 3/23/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> Thanks Mary.  I intend to do this!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 12:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hi all,
> As to long distance relationships, the main drawback is the obvious,
> you don't see each other as often. Bryan if you think you and this
> girl can have a good future, then I suggest you start seeing each
> other one weekend a month or so. See how things work out, and see if
> there are times when you can see each other more often. Once you have
> that face to face and build a relationship from there, then I think
> that the moving question will come up naturally and you can decide
> together. You can innumerate all the reasons you've listed here to
> her, etc. But based on three weeks, I wouldn't be making any life
> decisions. Take it easy and get to know each other well.
> Sincerely,
> Mary
>
> On 3/23/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> Thanks!
>> I'll ask around, and try to go to Guiding Eyes, after I graduate college.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> They do. Caniche dogs work very well as guide dogs I think, and you
>>> shouldn't have any trouble with those...
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 22, 2012, at 10:35 PM, Joshua Lester
>>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
>>>> has an allergy to dogs.
>>>> That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
>>>> I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
>>>> Nicole, do you know if they do?
>>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they
>>>>> are
>>>>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want
>>>>> one
>>>>> for
>>>>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs
>>>>> can
>>>>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However,
>>>>> there
>>>>> is
>>>>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't
>>>>> like
>>>>> it
>>>>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>>>>
>>>>> Nicole
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>>>>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>>>>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
>>>>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
>>>>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
>>>>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
>>>>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
>>>>> story.
>>>>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
>>>>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
>>>>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
>>>>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
>>>>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>>>>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
>>>>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
>>>>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
>>>>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
>>>>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
>>>>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>>>>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>>>>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
>>>>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
>>>>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>>>>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
>>>>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>>>>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
>>>>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
>>>>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>>>>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
>>>>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
>>>>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
>>>>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>>>>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
>>>>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
>>>>> blind however, all bets are off.
>>>>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
>>>>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
>>>>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
>>>>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
>>>>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
>>>>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
>>>>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>>>>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>>>>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
>>>>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
>>>>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
>>>>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>>>>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>>>>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
>>>>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
>>>>> mere visual acuity.
>>>>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>>>>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
>>>>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
>>>>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>>>>> creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
>>>>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
>>>>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>>>>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
>>>>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>>>>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
>>>>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
>>>>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
>>>>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
>>>>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
>>>>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
>>>>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
>>>>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
>>>>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>>>>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
>>>>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
>>>>> them all.
>>>>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
>>>>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
>>>>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
>>>>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
>>>>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
>>>>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Mary
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some 
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we 
>>>>>> actually
>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>>>>>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. 
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my 
>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share 
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already 
>>>>>> said,
>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family 
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was 
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but 
>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a 
>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid 
>>>>>>> sites.
>>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have
>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of 
>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student 
>>>>>>> division,
>>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc 
>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and 
>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool 
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind 
>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences 
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you
>>>>>>>>>> meet
>>>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming 
>>>>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on 
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially 
>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with 
>>>>>>>>>>>> online
>>>>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>>>>>>>> forward
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me 
>>>>>>>>>>>> sad.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your 
>>>>>>>>> machine
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Mary Fernandez
>>>>> Emory 2012
>>>>> "Do I dare
>>>>> Disturb the universe?
>>>>> In a minute there is time
>>>>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>>>>> --
>>>>> T.S. Eliot
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory 2012
> "Do I dare
> Disturb the universe?
> In a minute there is time
> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
> --
> T.S. Eliot
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From aec732 at msn.com  Fri Mar 23 14:52:16 2012
From: aec732 at msn.com (Annemarie Cooke)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 10:52:16 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] On-line dating
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1216.1332477246.15558.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.1216.1332477246.15558.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <COL123-W628A0F49561DDD2D0CF0E994460@phx.gbl>


Dear NABSters:
I am writing as a fellow blind person and NFB member rather than with my Learning Ally hat on today. I met my now husband almost nie years ago on line and I am happy to discuss safety precautions and tips for successful on-line dating if anyone wants to email me off list.
Thanks!
Annemarie Cooke
aec732 at msn.com 		 	   		  

From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com  Fri Mar 23 15:16:20 2012
From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 10:16:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net><B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria><CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com><CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com><FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc><CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <009401cd0907$e751a100$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn>

Hello Nicole and everyone,

    Or when they talk to the dog and not its owner. There's also the 
situation of people thinking you gave them a license to talk to and/or pat 
your dog when you tell them its name. These are issues you must deal with as 
a guide dog handler.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they are
not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one for
this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs can
sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However, there is
of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't like it
when people talk to them because of their dogs. .

Nicole

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


Hello All,
This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
story.
I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
blind however, all bets are off.
This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
mere visual acuity.
So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
 creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
them all.
A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
Sincerely,
Mary

On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind people
> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
> Take care,
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hello all,
> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>
>
> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>> and seeing what happens.
>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>> are better catches.
>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>> way to build lasting connections.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>
>>> Later.
>>>
>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>
>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>>> dating search.
>>>>
>>>> Nimer J
>>>>
>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you meet
>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>> daily
>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>>> person
>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
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-- 
Mary Fernandez
Emory 2012
"Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
--
T.S. Eliot

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From hope.paulos at gmail.com  Fri Mar 23 15:27:09 2012
From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 11:27:09 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net><B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria><CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com><CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com><FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc><CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com><32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu>
	<009401cd0907$e751a100$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <EA3E78DC9F8D463795B5C15FB8DF655C@Espy>

I always give the public a pseudonym for my dog.. THey never get her real 
name-- for that exact reason Peter stated. <smile>
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Donahue" <pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


Hello Nicole and everyone,

    Or when they talk to the dog and not its owner. There's also the
situation of people thinking you gave them a license to talk to and/or pat
your dog when you tell them its name. These are issues you must deal with as
a guide dog handler.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they are
not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one for
this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs can
sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However, there is
of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't like it
when people talk to them because of their dogs. .

Nicole

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


Hello All,
This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
story.
I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
blind however, all bets are off.
This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
mere visual acuity.
So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
 creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
them all.
A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
Sincerely,
Mary

On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind people
> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
> Take care,
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hello all,
> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>
>
> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>> and seeing what happens.
>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>> are better catches.
>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>> way to build lasting connections.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>
>>> Later.
>>>
>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>
>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>>> dating search.
>>>>
>>>> Nimer J
>>>>
>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you meet
>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>> daily
>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>>> person
>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
Emory 2012
"Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
--
T.S. Eliot

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From debbiewunder at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 23 19:33:29 2012
From: debbiewunder at earthlink.net (Debbie Wunder)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 14:33:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net><B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria><CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com><CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com><FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc><CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com><32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOvHiGx61gOxTgtwNnyukWx97K6QgJcTZyR8msfz-WF31w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C1A7C9F5E5964BB68B352E037A4F26BF@DEBBIECOMPUTER>

Hi Joshua, they are now using standard poodles for this reason
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 9:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
has an allergy to dogs.
That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
Nicole, do you know if they do?
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they are
> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one 
> for
> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs can
> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However, there 
> is
> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't like 
> it
> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>
> Nicole
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hello All,
> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
> story.
> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
> blind however, all bets are off.
> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
> mere visual acuity.
> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
> them all.
> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
> Sincerely,
> Mary
>
> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind 
>> people
>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>> Take care,
>> Doug
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello all,
>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>> and seeing what happens.
>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>> are better catches.
>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>
>>>> Later.
>>>>
>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>
>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you 
>>>>>> meet
>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and 
>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward 
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
> --
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory 2012
> "Do I dare
> Disturb the universe?
> In a minute there is time
> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
> --
> T.S. Eliot
>
> _______________________________________________
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri Mar 23 19:39:37 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 14:39:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <C1A7C9F5E5964BB68B352E037A4F26BF@DEBBIECOMPUTER>
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20120322144604.0511d248@earthlink.net>
	<B018A59B6F074BCD93B9E8894F2A3AAA@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOsoKONs1u3YxJWoATBH4gZTTW-bithUSwUD3CgQf35Qdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cyz5=v3ozefUq7pwpZohOYZw=4OWY2ye45zW3t4D3=M5g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CysmdqS9BQGZkeag6dRoV5=W-YjTaucjGPxstEoy3HLbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJDvuTRYyBTG7SWdyxapX24k06anuP+6Q0hOq08OUau63Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+nLGgxRQaYLTZ8jmO5mALC8yET1m77g=r44ehL-rGupcxErdQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD58D618BD4440499AFDA6F247617524@ownerpc>
	<CADit0-s27Jdj2qa-YmhdDsqOsn6XnFmDh-y9tLNtjOp7KvMkNg@mail.gmail.com>
	<32190AE6D1A944659DDAE954329A6C9A@stanford.edu>
	<CAO83KOvHiGx61gOxTgtwNnyukWx97K6QgJcTZyR8msfz-WF31w@mail.gmail.com>
	<C1A7C9F5E5964BB68B352E037A4F26BF@DEBBIECOMPUTER>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOstYnjaEqhUCVb4dcYkge+7qAbmVJ+gyZf5Fte-1OmXNw@mail.gmail.com>

So, Guiding Eyes is now training them?
Great!
Thanks for the information!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/23/12, Debbie Wunder <debbiewunder at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi Joshua, they are now using standard poodles for this reason
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 9:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're dating
> has an allergy to dogs.
> That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
> I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
> Nicole, do you know if they do?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they are
>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one
>> for
>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs can
>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However, there
>> is
>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't like
>> it
>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>
>> Nicole
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello All,
>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
>> story.
>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
>> blind however, all bets are off.
>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
>> mere visual acuity.
>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
>> them all.
>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>> Sincerely,
>> Mary
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind
>>> people
>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>> Take care,
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>>>> are better catches.
>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>
>>>>> Later.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you
>>>>>>> meet
>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net>
>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera2005%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mary Fernandez
>> Emory 2012
>> "Do I dare
>> Disturb the universe?
>> In a minute there is time
>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>> --
>> T.S. Eliot
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/debbiewunder%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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From amylsabo at comcast.net  Sat Mar 24 22:10:40 2012
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 16:10:40 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>
References: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>
	<737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>
Message-ID: <00e201cd0a0a$f3b21f20$db165d60$@comcast.net>

Hello doug,

Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa. I'm sooo
happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
happiness.

Take care and, I will talk to you soon.



Hugs,
amy

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Doug Oliver
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

we are.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
still working.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

I'm gonna way in on this topic.
My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
blind people
growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
person.
We've met in person twice and it's been great.
Take care,
Doug

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


Hello all,
Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
own
experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
As a
matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
he
is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
and I
have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
some of
what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
and
bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
actually
got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
were
present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
could
meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
was
a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
was
hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
person
besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
met
sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
sites. I
met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
opinion,
that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
things
in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
most
people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
share in
common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
sighted
person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
it
really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
of
these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
and
basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
said,
I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
from a
blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
other
side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
completely
adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
their
entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
such
as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
can
have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
to
handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.


On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi all,
 I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
was on
 a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
didn't
 find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
 friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
the
 whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
first
 dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
blindness was
 revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
find
 someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
public
 place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
profile up
 and seeing what happens.
 Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
 Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
my
 sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
sites.
 I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
and
 said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
attractive
 and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
the
 people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
hence
 are better catches.
 I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
during
 an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
profiles,
 others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
at some
 point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
and
 reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
before
 we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
when
 they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
happen at
 any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
would
 prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
get to
 know you before they learn about your blindness.
 Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
have done
 both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
person
 or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
thinking.
 I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
the
 same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
blind. I
 will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
was
 easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
what
 nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
my
 nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
relationship I
 have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
with the
 other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
think
 of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
blindness
 status, it's important for you and your partner to share
interests and
 passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
us
 share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
there
 are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
 around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
passions
 with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
 deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
I
 think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
 common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
to
 meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
singles'
 parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
your
 interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
division,
 classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
better
 way to build lasting connections.
 Arielle

 On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC� <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
simply for
 the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
like
 that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
general
 sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
etc
 to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.

 Later.

 On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC� <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
wrote:
 Hello Robin,

 Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
learn
 from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
others.
 As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
Not
 dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
and
 more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
options,
 just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
being
 rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
people
 have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
 blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
necessarily
 feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
etc
 etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
questions.
 Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
 educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
willing
 to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
not
 just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
 status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
that
 are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
 (whether online or not).

 Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
your
 dating search.

 Nimer J

 On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
wrote:
 Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
that
 pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
you meet
 them, they're a criminal.
 Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
 Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
yes,
 there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
would be
 very
 careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
as they
 appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
find
 that
 there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
feel
 that
 is
 a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
a
 daily
 basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
found
 there
 are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
when they
 are
 confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
sited
 person
 for 3 years and things are wonderful.
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
 To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
 Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello to everyone,
 I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
 dating
 and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
you
 had
 with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
forward to
 hearing your stories.


 I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
 Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
like a
 breeze

 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info for
 nabs-l:

http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
%40gmail.com



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 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
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 Registered Linux User 529141.
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 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating
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 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC� and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
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 attachments for security threats. However, security of your
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 up to you. Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
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 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

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From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sat Mar 24 23:08:09 2012
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 16:08:09 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] tomorrow's  marrie's mash up
Message-ID: <97350E19-BA3A-4374-9FCA-9188F484949C@gmail.com>

As you all remember this is hopefully temporary until we recruit more  good professional djs.

We will be hearing more top 1200 from 2011 I believe. I'm not knowledgeable in this music I just like to listen to it and so will you. Let's step in to the time machine and step back 1 year and bring back the memories.

Time: 3 pm eastern.

place: http://listen.ultrastreams.us:8022/stream

site: http://wics.cc

See you there.


From jeffanel at gmail.com  Sat Mar 24 23:11:17 2012
From: jeffanel at gmail.com (jeff crouch)
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2012 19:11:17 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <00e201cd0a0a$f3b21f20$db165d60$@comcast.net>
References: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>
	<737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>
	<00e201cd0a0a$f3b21f20$db165d60$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CA+N-3k1HhysTv+09-MPjnmuXwHjukM4cLwHt8b0KR9RRTh63Jg@mail.gmail.com>

ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would like
to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening is
slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.

in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it would be
pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
again.

this is my point of view

but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world, but
as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not seen
her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful

don't mean to sound like a dad, lol

every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you can
email me at
jeffanel at gmail.com
or
kd8qiq at arrl.net

with love and respect
Jeff Crouch

On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
> Hello doug,
>
> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa. I'm sooo
> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
> happiness.
>
> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>
>
>
> Hugs,
> amy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Doug Oliver
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
> we are.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
> still working.
> Beth
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
> blind people
> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
> person.
> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
> Take care,
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hello all,
> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
> own
> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
> As a
> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
> he
> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
> and I
> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
> some of
> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
> and
> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
> actually
> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
> were
> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
> could
> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
> was
> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
> was
> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
> person
> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
> met
> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
> sites. I
> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
> opinion,
> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
> things
> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
> most
> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
> share in
> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
> sighted
> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
> it
> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
> of
> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
> and
> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
> said,
> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
> from a
> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
> other
> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
> completely
> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
> their
> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
> such
> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
> can
> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
> to
> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>
>
> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi all,
>  I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
> was on
>  a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
> didn't
>  find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>  friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
> the
>  whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
> first
>  dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
> blindness was
>  revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
> find
>  someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
> public
>  place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
> profile up
>  and seeing what happens.
>  Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>  Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
> my
>  sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
> sites.
>  I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
> and
>  said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
> attractive
>  and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
> the
>  people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
> hence
>  are better catches.
>  I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
> during
>  an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
> profiles,
>  others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
> at some
>  point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
> and
>  reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
> before
>  we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
> when
>  they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
> happen at
>  any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
> would
>  prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
> get to
>  know you before they learn about your blindness.
>  Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
> have done
>  both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
> person
>  or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
> thinking.
>  I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
> the
>  same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
> blind. I
>  will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
> was
>  easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
> what
>  nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
> my
>  nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
> relationship I
>  have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
> with the
>  other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
> think
>  of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
> blindness
>  status, it's important for you and your partner to share
> interests and
>  passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
> us
>  share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
> there
>  are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>  around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
> passions
>  with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>  deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
> I
>  think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>  common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
> to
>  meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
> singles'
>  parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
> your
>  interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
> division,
>  classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
> better
>  way to build lasting connections.
>  Arielle
>
>  On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
> simply for
>  the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
> like
>  that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
> general
>  sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
> etc
>  to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>
>  Later.
>
>  On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  Hello Robin,
>
>  Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
> learn
>  from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
> others.
>  As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
> Not
>  dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
> and
>  more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
> options,
>  just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
> being
>  rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
> people
>  have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>  blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
> necessarily
>  feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
> etc
>  etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
> questions.
>  Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>  educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
> willing
>  to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
> not
>  just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>  status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
> that
>  are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>  (whether online or not).
>
>  Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
> your
>  dating search.
>
>  Nimer J
>
>  On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>  Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
> that
>  pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
> you meet
>  them, they're a criminal.
>  Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>  Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
> yes,
>  there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>  Blessings, Joshua
>
>  On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi,
>  I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
> would be
>  very
>  careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
> as they
>  appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
> find
>  that
>  there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
> feel
>  that
>  is
>  a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
> a
>  daily
>  basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
> found
>  there
>  are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
> when they
>  are
>  confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
> sited
>  person
>  for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>  To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>  Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  Hello to everyone,
>  I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>  dating
>  and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
> you
>  had
>  with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
> forward to
>  hearing your stories.
>
>
>  I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>  Perhaps
>  there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
> like a
>  breeze
>
>  among flowers.
>  Hellen Keller
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
> %40gmail.com
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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> 0students.pccua.edu
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>
>
>
>  --
>  Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>  addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
> recipient,
>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>  correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
> contents
>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
> or
>  criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>  attachments for security threats. However, security of your
> machine is
>  up to you. Thanks.
>
>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>  http://counter.li.org/
>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
> system,
>  please click here:
>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
> XP
>  and above, please click here:
>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>
>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
> news.
>
>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
> (720)
>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>
>
>  --
>  Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>  addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
> recipient,
>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>  correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
> contents
>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
> or
>  criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>  attachments for security threats. However, security of your
> machine is
>  up to you. Thanks.
>
>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>  http://counter.li.org/
>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
> system,
>  please click here:
>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
> XP
>  and above, please click here:
>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>
>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
> news.
>
>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
> (720)
>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
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>
>
>  _______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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-- 
73
kd8qiq
jeff crouch


From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Sun Mar 25 11:15:21 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 07:15:21 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>
	<737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>
	<00e201cd0a0a$f3b21f20$db165d60$@comcast.net>
	<CA+N-3k1HhysTv+09-MPjnmuXwHjukM4cLwHt8b0KR9RRTh63Jg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000a01cd0a78$922676c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>

@Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I did this and 
am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time you enter 
college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness situation. 
Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get caught up in something 
you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly figuring out who you 
are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck in your studies and don't 
worry as you get older your chance to date will be hear before you know it.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would like
> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening is
> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>
> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it would be
> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
> again.
>
> this is my point of view
>
> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world, but
> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not seen
> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>
> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>
> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you can
> email me at
> jeffanel at gmail.com
> or
> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>
> with love and respect
> Jeff Crouch
>
> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>> Hello doug,
>>
>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa. I'm sooo
>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
>> happiness.
>>
>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hugs,
>> amy
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Doug Oliver
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>> we are.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>> still working.
>> Beth
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>> blind people
>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>> person.
>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>> Take care,
>> Doug
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello all,
>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>> own
>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
>> As a
>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
>> he
>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>> and I
>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>> some of
>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>> and
>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>> actually
>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>> were
>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>> could
>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
>> was
>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>> was
>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>> person
>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>> met
>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>> sites. I
>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>> opinion,
>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>> things
>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>> most
>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>> share in
>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>> sighted
>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>> it
>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
>> of
>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
>> and
>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>> said,
>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>> from a
>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>> other
>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>> completely
>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>> their
>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>> such
>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>> can
>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>> to
>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  Hi all,
>>  I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>> was on
>>  a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>> didn't
>>  find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>  friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>> the
>>  whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>> first
>>  dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>> blindness was
>>  revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>> find
>>  someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>> public
>>  place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>> profile up
>>  and seeing what happens.
>>  Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>  Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>> my
>>  sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>> sites.
>>  I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>> and
>>  said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>> attractive
>>  and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>> the
>>  people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>> hence
>>  are better catches.
>>  I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>> during
>>  an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>> profiles,
>>  others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>> at some
>>  point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>> and
>>  reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>> before
>>  we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>> when
>>  they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>> happen at
>>  any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>> would
>>  prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>> get to
>>  know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>  Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>> have done
>>  both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>> person
>>  or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>> thinking.
>>  I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>> the
>>  same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>> blind. I
>>  will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>> was
>>  easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>> what
>>  nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>> my
>>  nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>> relationship I
>>  have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>> with the
>>  other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>> think
>>  of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>> blindness
>>  status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>> interests and
>>  passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>> us
>>  share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>> there
>>  are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>  around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>> passions
>>  with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>  deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>> I
>>  think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>  common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>> to
>>  meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>> singles'
>>  parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>> your
>>  interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>> division,
>>  classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>> better
>>  way to build lasting connections.
>>  Arielle
>>
>>  On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>> simply for
>>  the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>> like
>>  that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>> general
>>  sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>> etc
>>  to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>
>>  Later.
>>
>>  On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>  Hello Robin,
>>
>>  Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>> learn
>>  from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>> others.
>>  As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>> Not
>>  dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>> and
>>  more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>> options,
>>  just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>> being
>>  rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>> people
>>  have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>  blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>> necessarily
>>  feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>> etc
>>  etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>> questions.
>>  Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>  educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>> willing
>>  to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>> not
>>  just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>  status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>> that
>>  are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>  (whether online or not).
>>
>>  Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>> your
>>  dating search.
>>
>>  Nimer J
>>
>>  On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> wrote:
>>  Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>> that
>>  pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>> you meet
>>  them, they're a criminal.
>>  Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>  Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>> yes,
>>  there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>  Blessings, Joshua
>>
>>  On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  Hi,
>>  I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>> would be
>>  very
>>  careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>> as they
>>  appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>> find
>>  that
>>  there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>> feel
>>  that
>>  is
>>  a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>> a
>>  daily
>>  basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>> found
>>  there
>>  are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>> when they
>>  are
>>  confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>> sited
>>  person
>>  for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>  To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>  Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>  Hello to everyone,
>>  I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>  dating
>>  and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>> you
>>  had
>>  with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>> forward to
>>  hearing your stories.
>>
>>
>>  I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>  Perhaps
>>  there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>> like a
>>  breeze
>>
>>  among flowers.
>>  Hellen Keller
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
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>> info for
>>  nabs-l:
>>
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>> %40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
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>>
>>  _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>  addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>> recipient,
>>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>  correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>> contents
>>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>> or
>>  criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>  attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>> machine is
>>  up to you. Thanks.
>>
>>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>>  http://counter.li.org/
>>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>> system,
>>  please click here:
>>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>> XP
>>  and above, please click here:
>>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>> news.
>>
>>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>> (720)
>>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>  addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>> recipient,
>>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>  correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>> contents
>>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>> or
>>  criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>  attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>> machine is
>>  up to you. Thanks.
>>
>>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>>  http://counter.li.org/
>>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>> system,
>>  please click here:
>>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>> XP
>>  and above, please click here:
>>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>> news.
>>
>>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>> (720)
>>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>  nabs-l:
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>>
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> 73
> kd8qiq
> jeff crouch
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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> 




From ignasicambra at gmail.com  Sun Mar 25 13:43:51 2012
From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (Ignasi Cambra)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:43:51 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <000a01cd0a78$922676c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
References: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>
	<737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>
	<00e201cd0a0a$f3b21f20$db165d60$@comcast.net>
	<CA+N-3k1HhysTv+09-MPjnmuXwHjukM4cLwHt8b0KR9RRTh63Jg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000a01cd0a78$922676c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
Message-ID: <-4225011247113051920@unknownmsgid>

I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was fun!!!

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
<brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:

> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I did this and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time you enter college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get caught up in something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly figuring out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck in your studies and don't worry as you get older your chance to date will be hear before you know it.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would like
>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening is
>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>
>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it would be
>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>> again.
>>
>> this is my point of view
>>
>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world, but
>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not seen
>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>
>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>
>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you can
>> email me at
>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>> or
>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>
>> with love and respect
>> Jeff Crouch
>>
>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Hello doug,
>>>
>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa. I'm sooo
>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
>>> happiness.
>>>
>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hugs,
>>> amy
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>> we are.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>> still working.
>>> Beth
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>> blind people
>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>> person.
>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>> Take care,
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>> own
>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
>>> As a
>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
>>> he
>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>> and I
>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>> some of
>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>> and
>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>> actually
>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>> were
>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>> could
>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
>>> was
>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>> was
>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>> person
>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>> met
>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>> sites. I
>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>> opinion,
>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>> things
>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>> most
>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>> share in
>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>> sighted
>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>> it
>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
>>> of
>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
>>> and
>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>> said,
>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>> from a
>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>> other
>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>> completely
>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>> their
>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>> such
>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>> can
>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>> to
>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>> was on
>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>> didn't
>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>> the
>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>> first
>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>> blindness was
>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>> find
>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>> public
>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>> profile up
>>> and seeing what happens.
>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>> my
>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>> sites.
>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>> and
>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>> attractive
>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>> the
>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>> hence
>>> are better catches.
>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>> during
>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>> profiles,
>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>> at some
>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>> and
>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>> before
>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>> when
>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>> happen at
>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>> would
>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>> get to
>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>> have done
>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>> person
>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>> thinking.
>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>> the
>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>> blind. I
>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>> was
>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>> what
>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>> my
>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>> relationship I
>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>> with the
>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>> think
>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>> blindness
>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>> interests and
>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>> us
>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>> there
>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>> passions
>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>> I
>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>> to
>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>> singles'
>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>> your
>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>> division,
>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>> better
>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>> simply for
>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>> like
>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>> general
>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>> etc
>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>
>>> Later.
>>>
>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> Hello Robin,
>>>
>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>> learn
>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>> others.
>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>> Not
>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>> and
>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>> options,
>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>> being
>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>> people
>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>> necessarily
>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>> etc
>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>> questions.
>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>> willing
>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>> not
>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>> that
>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>> (whether online or not).
>>>
>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>> your
>>> dating search.
>>>
>>> Nimer J
>>>
>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>> that
>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>> you meet
>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>> yes,
>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>> would be
>>> very
>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>> as they
>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>> find
>>> that
>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>> feel
>>> that
>>> is
>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>> a
>>> daily
>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>> found
>>> there
>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>> when they
>>> are
>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>> sited
>>> person
>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello to everyone,
>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>> dating
>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>> you
>>> had
>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>> forward to
>>> hearing your stories.
>>>
>>>
>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>> Perhaps
>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>> like a
>>> breeze
>>>
>>> among flowers.
>>> Hellen Keller
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>> info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>> %40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> 0gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>> recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>> contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>> or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>> machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>> system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>> XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>> news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>> (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>> recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>> contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>> or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>> machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>> system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>> XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>> news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>> (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> info for
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>>> mail.com
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>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
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>>> nabs-l:
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>>> 40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 73
>> kd8qiq
>> jeff crouch
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>
>
>
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From jeffanel at gmail.com  Sun Mar 25 14:11:38 2012
From: jeffanel at gmail.com (jeff crouch)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 10:11:38 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <-4225011247113051920@unknownmsgid>
References: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>
	<737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>
	<00e201cd0a0a$f3b21f20$db165d60$@comcast.net>
	<CA+N-3k1HhysTv+09-MPjnmuXwHjukM4cLwHt8b0KR9RRTh63Jg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000a01cd0a78$922676c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<-4225011247113051920@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <CA+N-3k2zzM4Mz4AwrzDUUqi_+x66-hxjnjqT4o_08eOhLvGoWw@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with both statements, yes the muturity level is down for alot
of teenagers, but it still can be fun to have thoughs like 5 month
deels, but i totaly agree, wait untill i get in to college

On 3/25/12, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was fun!!!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I did this
>> and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time you enter
>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness
>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get caught up in
>> something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly figuring
>> out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck in your studies
>> and don't worry as you get older your chance to date will be hear before
>> you know it.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would like
>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening is
>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>
>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it would be
>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>> again.
>>>
>>> this is my point of view
>>>
>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world, but
>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not seen
>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>
>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>
>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you can
>>> email me at
>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>> or
>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>
>>> with love and respect
>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>
>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>
>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa. I'm
>>>> sooo
>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
>>>> happiness.
>>>>
>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hugs,
>>>> amy
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>> we are.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>>> still working.
>>>> Beth
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>> blind people
>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>> person.
>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Doug
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>> own
>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
>>>> As a
>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
>>>> he
>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>> and I
>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>> some of
>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>> and
>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>> actually
>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>> were
>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>> could
>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
>>>> was
>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>> was
>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>> person
>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>> met
>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>> sites. I
>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>> opinion,
>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>> things
>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>> most
>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>> share in
>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>> sighted
>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>> it
>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
>>>> of
>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
>>>> and
>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>>> said,
>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>> from a
>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>> other
>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>> completely
>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>>> their
>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>> such
>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>> can
>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>> to
>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>> was on
>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>> didn't
>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>> the
>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>> first
>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>> blindness was
>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>> find
>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>> public
>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>> profile up
>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>>> my
>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>> sites.
>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>> and
>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>> attractive
>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>> the
>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>> hence
>>>> are better catches.
>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>> during
>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>> profiles,
>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>> at some
>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>> and
>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>> before
>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>> when
>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>> happen at
>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>> would
>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>> get to
>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>> have done
>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>> person
>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>> thinking.
>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>> the
>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>> blind. I
>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>>> was
>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>> what
>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>> my
>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>> relationship I
>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>> with the
>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>> think
>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>> blindness
>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>> interests and
>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>> us
>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>> there
>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>> passions
>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>>> I
>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>> to
>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>> singles'
>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>> your
>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>> division,
>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>> better
>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>> simply for
>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>> like
>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>> general
>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>>> etc
>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>
>>>> Later.
>>>>
>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>
>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>> learn
>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>> others.
>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>> Not
>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>> and
>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>> options,
>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>> being
>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>> people
>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>> necessarily
>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>> etc
>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>> questions.
>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>> willing
>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>> not
>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>> that
>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>> your
>>>> dating search.
>>>>
>>>> Nimer J
>>>>
>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>> that
>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>> you meet
>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>> yes,
>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>> would be
>>>> very
>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>> as they
>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>> find
>>>> that
>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>> feel
>>>> that
>>>> is
>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>> a
>>>> daily
>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>> found
>>>> there
>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>> when they
>>>> are
>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>> sited
>>>> person
>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>> dating
>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>> you
>>>> had
>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>> forward to
>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>> Perhaps
>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>> like a
>>>> breeze
>>>>
>>>> among flowers.
>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>> recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>> contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>> or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>> machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>> system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>> XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>> news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>> (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>> recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>> contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>> or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>> machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>> system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>> XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>> news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>> (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>> mail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 73
>>> kd8qiq
>>> jeff crouch
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>


-- 
73
kd8qiq
jeff crouch


From aec732 at msn.com  Sun Mar 25 15:08:52 2012
From: aec732 at msn.com (Annemarie Cooke)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 11:08:52 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] On-line dating
In-Reply-To: <COL123-W628A0F49561DDD2D0CF0E994460@phx.gbl>
References: <mailman.1216.1332477246.15558.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>,
	<COL123-W628A0F49561DDD2D0CF0E994460@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <COL123-W26177053C6CF0F8065C27894440@phx.gbl>



 




Dear NABSters:
I am writing as a fellow blind person and NFB member rather than with my Learning Ally hat on today. I met my now husband almost nie years ago on line and I am happy to discuss safety precautions and tips for successful on-line dating if anyone wants to email me off list.
Thanks!
Annemarie Cooke
aec732 at msn.com
 		 	   		  

From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Sun Mar 25 16:11:30 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 11:11:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] uploading files
Message-ID: <9E95772D96DF4A51AB0903443FCA0440@Gloria>

Hello,
Can anyone give me instructions on how to upload a file? I am applying for a scholarship and it ask canidates to upload files to the application. I tried going to th brows button and going to the file I wanted to upload and I thn hit open and thought the file would be uploaded to the application but it wasn't. Can anyone help?
THanks

From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Mar 25 16:17:12 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 10:17:12 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] uploading files
In-Reply-To: <9E95772D96DF4A51AB0903443FCA0440@Gloria>
References: <9E95772D96DF4A51AB0903443FCA0440@Gloria>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJCcAScN3TX+rkyN1HYEQeaiP740GrxkxSdEwK3DJU=Lyw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Gloria,
It sounds like you did everything right, how do you know the file didn't upload?
Arielle

On 3/25/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> Can anyone give me instructions on how to upload a file? I am applying for a
> scholarship and it ask canidates to upload files to the application. I tried
> going to th brows button and going to the file I wanted to upload and I thn
> hit open and thought the file would be uploaded to the application but it
> wasn't. Can anyone help?
> THanks
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Sun Mar 25 16:45:37 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 11:45:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] uploading files
References: <9E95772D96DF4A51AB0903443FCA0440@Gloria>
	<CALAYQJCcAScN3TX+rkyN1HYEQeaiP740GrxkxSdEwK3DJU=Lyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F6ED4A2FFA0F4AA8B6E8E8F25F754DD6@Gloria>

I tried to go back and open the file to make sure when it was being read by 
the scholarship committee it would open and nothing happened.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] uploading files


> Hi Gloria,
> It sounds like you did everything right, how do you know the file didn't 
> upload?
> Arielle
>
> On 3/25/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> Can anyone give me instructions on how to upload a file? I am applying 
>> for a
>> scholarship and it ask canidates to upload files to the application. I 
>> tried
>> going to th brows button and going to the file I wanted to upload and I 
>> thn
>> hit open and thought the file would be uploaded to the application but it
>> wasn't. Can anyone help?
>> THanks
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com 



From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Sun Mar 25 21:19:34 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:19:34 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>
	<737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>
	<00e201cd0a0a$f3b21f20$db165d60$@comcast.net>
	<CA+N-3k1HhysTv+09-MPjnmuXwHjukM4cLwHt8b0KR9RRTh63Jg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000a01cd0a78$922676c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<-4225011247113051920@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <000301cd0acc$fa63c0e0$1400ba43@BRIAN>

Me neither.  But I am just warning Jeff to be careful.  Back then when I 
went on dates I enjoyed myself very much. But I noticed during the High 
School years most girls weren't as accepting of me and I had more luck with 
dating during college than high school.  But again during the few times I 
dated as a teen I had fun.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ignasi Cambra" <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:43 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


>I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was fun!!!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I did this 
>> and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time you enter 
>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness 
>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get caught up 
>> in something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly 
>> figuring out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck in 
>> your studies and don't worry as you get older your chance to date will be 
>> hear before you know it.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would like
>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening is
>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>
>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it would be
>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>> again.
>>>
>>> this is my point of view
>>>
>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world, but
>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not seen
>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>
>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>
>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you can
>>> email me at
>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>> or
>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>
>>> with love and respect
>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>
>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>
>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa. I'm 
>>>> sooo
>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
>>>> happiness.
>>>>
>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hugs,
>>>> amy
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>> we are.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>>> still working.
>>>> Beth
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>> blind people
>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>> person.
>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Doug
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>> own
>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
>>>> As a
>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
>>>> he
>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>> and I
>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>> some of
>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>> and
>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>> actually
>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>> were
>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>> could
>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
>>>> was
>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>> was
>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>> person
>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>> met
>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>> sites. I
>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>> opinion,
>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>> things
>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>> most
>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>> share in
>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>> sighted
>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>> it
>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
>>>> of
>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
>>>> and
>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>>> said,
>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>> from a
>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>> other
>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>> completely
>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>>> their
>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>> such
>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>> can
>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>> to
>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>> was on
>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>> didn't
>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>> the
>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>> first
>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>> blindness was
>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>> find
>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>> public
>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>> profile up
>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>>> my
>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>> sites.
>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>> and
>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>> attractive
>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>> the
>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>> hence
>>>> are better catches.
>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>> during
>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>> profiles,
>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>> at some
>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>> and
>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>> before
>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>> when
>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>> happen at
>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>> would
>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>> get to
>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>> have done
>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>> person
>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>> thinking.
>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>> the
>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>> blind. I
>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>>> was
>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>> what
>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>> my
>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>> relationship I
>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>> with the
>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>> think
>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>> blindness
>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>> interests and
>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>> us
>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>> there
>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>> passions
>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>>> I
>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>> to
>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>> singles'
>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>> your
>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>> division,
>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>> better
>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>> simply for
>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>> like
>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>> general
>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>>> etc
>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>
>>>> Later.
>>>>
>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>
>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>> learn
>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>> others.
>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>> Not
>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>> and
>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>> options,
>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>> being
>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>> people
>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>> necessarily
>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>> etc
>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>> questions.
>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>> willing
>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>> not
>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>> that
>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>> your
>>>> dating search.
>>>>
>>>> Nimer J
>>>>
>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>> that
>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>> you meet
>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>> yes,
>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>> would be
>>>> very
>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>> as they
>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>> find
>>>> that
>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>> feel
>>>> that
>>>> is
>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>> a
>>>> daily
>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>> found
>>>> there
>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>> when they
>>>> are
>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>> sited
>>>> person
>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>> dating
>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>> you
>>>> had
>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>> forward to
>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>> Perhaps
>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>> like a
>>>> breeze
>>>>
>>>> among flowers.
>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>> recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>> contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>> or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>> machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>> system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>> XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>> news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>> (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>> recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>> contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>> or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>> machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>> system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>> XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>> news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>> (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>> mail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for
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>>>>
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>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for nabs-l:
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>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 73
>>> kd8qiq
>>> jeff crouch
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
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>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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>
> _______________________________________________
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From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Sun Mar 25 21:20:23 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:20:23 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>
	<737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>
	<00e201cd0a0a$f3b21f20$db165d60$@comcast.net>
	<CA+N-3k1HhysTv+09-MPjnmuXwHjukM4cLwHt8b0KR9RRTh63Jg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000a01cd0a78$922676c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>	<-4225011247113051920@unknownmsgid>
	<CA+N-3k2zzM4Mz4AwrzDUUqi_+x66-hxjnjqT4o_08eOhLvGoWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000701cd0acd$1780c1a0$1400ba43@BRIAN>

Exactly Jeff good thinking!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


>I agree with both statements, yes the muturity level is down for alot
> of teenagers, but it still can be fun to have thoughs like 5 month
> deels, but i totaly agree, wait untill i get in to college
>
> On 3/25/12, Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was fun!!!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
>> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I did this
>>> and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time you 
>>> enter
>>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness
>>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get caught up 
>>> in
>>> something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly figuring
>>> out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck in your 
>>> studies
>>> and don't worry as you get older your chance to date will be hear before
>>> you know it.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would like
>>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening is
>>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
>>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>>
>>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it would be
>>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
>>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>>> again.
>>>>
>>>> this is my point of view
>>>>
>>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world, but
>>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not seen
>>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>>
>>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>>
>>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you can
>>>> email me at
>>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>>> or
>>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>>
>>>> with love and respect
>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>
>>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>>
>>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa. I'm
>>>>> sooo
>>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
>>>>> happiness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hugs,
>>>>> amy
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>> we are.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>>>> still working.
>>>>> Beth
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>>> blind people
>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>>> person.
>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>> Take care,
>>>>> Doug
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>>> own
>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
>>>>> As a
>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
>>>>> he
>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>>> and I
>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>>> some of
>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>>> and
>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>>> actually
>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>>> were
>>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>>> could
>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
>>>>> was
>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>>> was
>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>>> person
>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>>> met
>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>>> sites. I
>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>>> opinion,
>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>>> things
>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>>> most
>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>>> share in
>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>>> sighted
>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>>> it
>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
>>>>> of
>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
>>>>> and
>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>>>> said,
>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>>> from a
>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>>> other
>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>>> completely
>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>>>> their
>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>>> such
>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>>> can
>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>>> to
>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>>> was on
>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>>> didn't
>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>>> the
>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>>> first
>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>>> blindness was
>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>>> find
>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>>> public
>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>>> profile up
>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>>>> my
>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>>> sites.
>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>>> and
>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>> attractive
>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>>> the
>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>>> hence
>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>> during
>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>>> profiles,
>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>>> at some
>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>>> and
>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>>> before
>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>>> when
>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>>> happen at
>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>>> would
>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>>> get to
>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>>> have done
>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>> person
>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>>> thinking.
>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>>> the
>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>>> blind. I
>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>>>> was
>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>>> what
>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>>> my
>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>>> relationship I
>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>>> with the
>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>>> think
>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>>> blindness
>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>>> interests and
>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>>> us
>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>> there
>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>>> passions
>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>>>> I
>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>>> to
>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>> singles'
>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>>> your
>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>>> division,
>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>>> better
>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>>> simply for
>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>>> like
>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>>> general
>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>>>> etc
>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>
>>>>> Later.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>
>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>>> learn
>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>> others.
>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>>> Not
>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>>> and
>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>> options,
>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>> being
>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>>> people
>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>>> necessarily
>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>> etc
>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>> questions.
>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>> willing
>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>> not
>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>>> that
>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>> your
>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>> that
>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>>> you meet
>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>> yes,
>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>> would be
>>>>> very
>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>>> as they
>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>> find
>>>>> that
>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>> feel
>>>>> that
>>>>> is
>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>>> a
>>>>> daily
>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>> found
>>>>> there
>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>>> when they
>>>>> are
>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>> sited
>>>>> person
>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>> dating
>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>> you
>>>>> had
>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>> forward to
>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>> like a
>>>>> breeze
>>>>>
>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>> recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>> contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>> or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>> machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>> system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>> XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>> news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>> (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>> recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>> contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>> or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>> machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>> system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>> XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>> news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>> (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> 73
>>>> kd8qiq
>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
> -- 
> 73
> kd8qiq
> jeff crouch
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> 




From jeffanel at gmail.com  Sun Mar 25 21:24:24 2012
From: jeffanel at gmail.com (jeff crouch)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 17:24:24 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <000301cd0acc$fa63c0e0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
References: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>
	<737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>
	<00e201cd0a0a$f3b21f20$db165d60$@comcast.net>
	<CA+N-3k1HhysTv+09-MPjnmuXwHjukM4cLwHt8b0KR9RRTh63Jg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000a01cd0a78$922676c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<-4225011247113051920@unknownmsgid>
	<000301cd0acc$fa63c0e0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
Message-ID: <CA+N-3k3QFfAMV0GYUVzmrpWHrb2FGiu-CBjzcO3eRvpTRpUfQQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, I would like to try dating a VI Girl, just to see what it would
be like, But unfornchely their is no one hear in flint.

On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> Me neither.  But I am just warning Jeff to be careful.  Back then when I
> went on dates I enjoyed myself very much. But I noticed during the High
> School years most girls weren't as accepting of me and I had more luck with
> dating during college than high school.  But again during the few times I
> dated as a teen I had fun.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ignasi Cambra" <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>>I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was fun!!!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
>> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I did this
>>> and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time you enter
>>>
>>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness
>>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get caught up
>>> in something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly
>>> figuring out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck in
>>> your studies and don't worry as you get older your chance to date will be
>>>
>>> hear before you know it.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would like
>>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening is
>>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
>>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>>
>>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it would be
>>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
>>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>>> again.
>>>>
>>>> this is my point of view
>>>>
>>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world, but
>>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not seen
>>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>>
>>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>>
>>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you can
>>>> email me at
>>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>>> or
>>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>>
>>>> with love and respect
>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>
>>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>>
>>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa. I'm
>>>>> sooo
>>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
>>>>> happiness.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hugs,
>>>>> amy
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>> we are.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>>>> still working.
>>>>> Beth
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>>> blind people
>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>>> person.
>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>> Take care,
>>>>> Doug
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>>> own
>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
>>>>> As a
>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
>>>>> he
>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>>> and I
>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>>> some of
>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>>> and
>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>>> actually
>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>>> were
>>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>>> could
>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
>>>>> was
>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>>> was
>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>>> person
>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>>> met
>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>>> sites. I
>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>>> opinion,
>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>>> things
>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>>> most
>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>>> share in
>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>>> sighted
>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>>> it
>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
>>>>> of
>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
>>>>> and
>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>>>> said,
>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>>> from a
>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>>> other
>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>>> completely
>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>>>> their
>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>>> such
>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>>> can
>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>>> to
>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>>> was on
>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>>> didn't
>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>>> the
>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>>> first
>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>>> blindness was
>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>>> find
>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>>> public
>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>>> profile up
>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>>>> my
>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>>> sites.
>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>>> and
>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>> attractive
>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>>> the
>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>>> hence
>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>> during
>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>>> profiles,
>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>>> at some
>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>>> and
>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>>> before
>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>>> when
>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>>> happen at
>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>>> would
>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>>> get to
>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>>> have done
>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>> person
>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>>> thinking.
>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>>> the
>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>>> blind. I
>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>>>> was
>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>>> what
>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>>> my
>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>>> relationship I
>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>>> with the
>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>>> think
>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>>> blindness
>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>>> interests and
>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>>> us
>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>> there
>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>>> passions
>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>>>> I
>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>>> to
>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>> singles'
>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>>> your
>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>>> division,
>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>>> better
>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>>> simply for
>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>>> like
>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>>> general
>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>>>> etc
>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>
>>>>> Later.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>
>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>>> learn
>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>> others.
>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>>> Not
>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>>> and
>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>> options,
>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>> being
>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>>> people
>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>>> necessarily
>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>> etc
>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>> questions.
>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>> willing
>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>> not
>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>>> that
>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>> your
>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>
>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>> that
>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>>> you meet
>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>> yes,
>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>> would be
>>>>> very
>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>>> as they
>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>> find
>>>>> that
>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>> feel
>>>>> that
>>>>> is
>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>>> a
>>>>> daily
>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>> found
>>>>> there
>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>>> when they
>>>>> are
>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>> sited
>>>>> person
>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>> dating
>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>> you
>>>>> had
>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>> forward to
>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>> like a
>>>>> breeze
>>>>>
>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>> recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>> contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>> or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>> machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>> system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>> XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>> news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>> (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>> recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>> contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>> or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>> machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>> system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>> XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>> news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>> (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> 73
>>>> kd8qiq
>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>


-- 
73
kd8qiq
jeff crouch


From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Sun Mar 25 23:56:08 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 19:56:08 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>
	<737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>
	<00e201cd0a0a$f3b21f20$db165d60$@comcast.net>
	<CA+N-3k1HhysTv+09-MPjnmuXwHjukM4cLwHt8b0KR9RRTh63Jg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000a01cd0a78$922676c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>	<-4225011247113051920@unknownmsgid>
	<000301cd0acc$fa63c0e0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CA+N-3k3QFfAMV0GYUVzmrpWHrb2FGiu-CBjzcO3eRvpTRpUfQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000301cd0ae2$d9c0a4a0$1400ba43@BRIAN>

In my experiences with visually handicapped women most of them I've 
encountered that are at my age level are uneducated and still living under 
their parents roof.  My rule is that any woman I date should be on the same 
level both chronologically and mentally as I am.  I've graduated college and 
have been on my own since 2003. I am very independent.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


> Yeah, I would like to try dating a VI Girl, just to see what it would
> be like, But unfornchely their is no one hear in flint.
>
> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Me neither.  But I am just warning Jeff to be careful.  Back then when I
>> went on dates I enjoyed myself very much. But I noticed during the High
>> School years most girls weren't as accepting of me and I had more luck 
>> with
>> dating during college than high school.  But again during the few times I
>> dated as a teen I had fun.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ignasi Cambra" <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:43 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>>I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was fun!!!
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
>>> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I did 
>>>> this
>>>> and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time you 
>>>> enter
>>>>
>>>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness
>>>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get caught up
>>>> in something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly
>>>> figuring out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck in
>>>> your studies and don't worry as you get older your chance to date will 
>>>> be
>>>>
>>>> hear before you know it.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would like
>>>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening is
>>>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
>>>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>>>
>>>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it would be
>>>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
>>>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>>>> again.
>>>>>
>>>>> this is my point of view
>>>>>
>>>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world, but
>>>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not seen
>>>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>>>
>>>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>>>
>>>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you can
>>>>> email me at
>>>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>>>> or
>>>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>>>
>>>>> with love and respect
>>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa. I'm
>>>>>> sooo
>>>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
>>>>>> happiness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hugs,
>>>>>> amy
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>> we are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>>>>> still working.
>>>>>> Beth
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>>>> blind people
>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>>>> person.
>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>>>> own
>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
>>>>>> As a
>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
>>>>>> he
>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>>>> and I
>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>>>> some of
>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>>>> actually
>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>>>> were
>>>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>>>> person
>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>>>> met
>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>>>> sites. I
>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>>>> things
>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>>>> most
>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>>>> share in
>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>>>>> said,
>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>>>> from a
>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>>>> completely
>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>>>> such
>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>>>> was on
>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>>>> first
>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>>>> blindness was
>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>>>> find
>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>>>> public
>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>>>> profile up
>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>>>> sites.
>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>>>> hence
>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>> during
>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>>>> profiles,
>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>>>> at some
>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>>>> before
>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>>>> happen at
>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>>>> get to
>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>>>> have done
>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>> person
>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>>>> blind. I
>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>>>> relationship I
>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>>>> with the
>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>>>> think
>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>>>> blindness
>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>>>> interests and
>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>>>> us
>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>>>> passions
>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>>>> division,
>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>>>> better
>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>>>> simply for
>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>>>> general
>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>>>>> etc
>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>>>> learn
>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>> others.
>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>>>> Not
>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>> options,
>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>>>> necessarily
>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>>> etc
>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>> willing
>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>> your
>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>>>> you meet
>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>> would be
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>>>> as they
>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>> find
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>> feel
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> daily
>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>> found
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>>>> when they
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>> sited
>>>>>> person
>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>> dating
>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>> forward to
>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>> like a
>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>
>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>> contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>> system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>> XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>> contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>> system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>> XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>>>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
>>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> 73
>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> 73
> kd8qiq
> jeff crouch
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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> 




From turtlepower17 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 00:35:27 2012
From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:35:27 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <000301cd0ae2$d9c0a4a0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
References: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>
	<737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>
	<00e201cd0a0a$f3b21f20$db165d60$@comcast.net>
	<CA+N-3k1HhysTv+09-MPjnmuXwHjukM4cLwHt8b0KR9RRTh63Jg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000a01cd0a78$922676c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<-4225011247113051920@unknownmsgid>
	<000301cd0acc$fa63c0e0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CA+N-3k3QFfAMV0GYUVzmrpWHrb2FGiu-CBjzcO3eRvpTRpUfQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000301cd0ae2$d9c0a4a0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
Message-ID: <CAC7+D=xVFNfBgj4+uWNPP=QNrNVmCs8M_8PHkWt2wTDwKyrU7A@mail.gmail.com>

That's a pretty big generalization. I understand that our life
experiences shape our views, and more importantly, our prejudices, but
that doesn't mean that all blind women are what you're saying they
are. In fact, I've met just as many blind young men who are what you
describe. Also, you don't know the circumstances of every blind person
who's still living at home. Of course, if you're talking about former
dating partners, I would assume you did, but I would encourage you to
have a little compassion and sensitivity to whatever emotional issues
they might be facing that cause them to have no desire to leave home.
Are they afraid of failure? Have their parents belittled, degraded, or
even abused them due to their blindness?
I understand that there are blind people, women and men, old and
young, who have a chip on their shoulder and an entitlement complex a
mile long. But you know what? You can choose not to associate with
those people. Discouraging a kid from dating blind people is quite
another thing though.
My mom once told me when I was in high school and complaining about a
relationship that didn't work out, "blind people are screwed up in the
head. You shouldn't be dating them." By saying that, no matter how
well-intentioned her response was, she was putting me in the same
category. Can you imagine how I felt? To top it all off, in high
school, relationships don't last forever, so that made it doubly
hurtful.
To summarize, I have no problem dating a blind or sighted person. I've
dated both, and have had good and bad experiences with both. I also
don't shy away from being supportive of people who might not be as
strong as you and I are. Growing up, I never had much support from
anyone. I've made a promise to myself that I won't repeat that pattern
in my adulthood. Now, if a person is clearly trying to mooch off the
system, throws a pity party constantly, refuses to practice good
hygiene, and is grossly overweight due to perpetual inactivity, of
course I won't date them. But those are my standards, and aren't
limited to blindness. I wouldn't date a sighted person with those
traits either.

On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> In my experiences with visually handicapped women most of them I've
> encountered that are at my age level are uneducated and still living under
> their parents roof.  My rule is that any woman I date should be on the same
> level both chronologically and mentally as I am.  I've graduated college and
> have been on my own since 2003. I am very independent.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>> Yeah, I would like to try dating a VI Girl, just to see what it would
>> be like, But unfornchely their is no one hear in flint.
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Me neither.  But I am just warning Jeff to be careful.  Back then when I
>>> went on dates I enjoyed myself very much. But I noticed during the High
>>> School years most girls weren't as accepting of me and I had more luck
>>> with
>>> dating during college than high school.  But again during the few times I
>>> dated as a teen I had fun.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ignasi Cambra" <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:43 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>>>I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was fun!!!
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
>>>> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I did
>>>>> this
>>>>> and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time you
>>>>> enter
>>>>>
>>>>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness
>>>>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get caught up
>>>>> in something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly
>>>>> figuring out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck in
>>>>> your studies and don't worry as you get older your chance to date will
>>>>> be
>>>>>
>>>>> hear before you know it.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would like
>>>>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening is
>>>>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
>>>>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it would be
>>>>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
>>>>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>>>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> this is my point of view
>>>>>>
>>>>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world, but
>>>>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>>>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not seen
>>>>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>>>>
>>>>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>>>>
>>>>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you can
>>>>>> email me at
>>>>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> with love and respect
>>>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa. I'm
>>>>>>> sooo
>>>>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
>>>>>>> happiness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hugs,
>>>>>>> amy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>>>>>> still working.
>>>>>>> Beth
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>>>>> blind people
>>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>>>>> person.
>>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
>>>>>>> As a
>>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>>>>> some of
>>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>>>>> met
>>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>>>>> sites. I
>>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>>>>> share in
>>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>>>>> was on
>>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>>>>> blindness was
>>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>>>>> profile up
>>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>>>>> sites.
>>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>>>>> hence
>>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>>>>> profiles,
>>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>>>>> at some
>>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>>>>> happen at
>>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>>>>> get to
>>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>>>>> have done
>>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>>>>> blind. I
>>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>>>>> relationship I
>>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>>>>> blindness
>>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>>>>> interests and
>>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>>>>> passions
>>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>>>>> division,
>>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>>>>> simply for
>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>>>>> general
>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>>>>> necessarily
>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>>>>> you meet
>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>>>>> as they
>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>>>>> when they
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>>> forward to
>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>>> like a
>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>>>>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
>>>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>>>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> 73
>>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 73
>> kd8qiq
>> jeff crouch
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>


From jeffanel at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 01:33:46 2012
From: jeffanel at gmail.com (jeff crouch)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:33:46 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <CAC7+D=xVFNfBgj4+uWNPP=QNrNVmCs8M_8PHkWt2wTDwKyrU7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>
	<737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>
	<00e201cd0a0a$f3b21f20$db165d60$@comcast.net>
	<CA+N-3k1HhysTv+09-MPjnmuXwHjukM4cLwHt8b0KR9RRTh63Jg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000a01cd0a78$922676c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<-4225011247113051920@unknownmsgid>
	<000301cd0acc$fa63c0e0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CA+N-3k3QFfAMV0GYUVzmrpWHrb2FGiu-CBjzcO3eRvpTRpUfQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000301cd0ae2$d9c0a4a0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAC7+D=xVFNfBgj4+uWNPP=QNrNVmCs8M_8PHkWt2wTDwKyrU7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+N-3k3SOC4ZOHYPs7+c3eFtnSPVT_ussXKax3bZbJqdNteX7g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All,

Wow, what a powerful message. and see the thing for me is that, their
is no blind females in my area, and it would have to be online, and
sometimes thoughts work, others don't.

I am as i said 15, and I have personaly seen many releationships go
down  the drain.

With love

73
kd8qiq
Jeff Crouch

On 3/25/12, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
> That's a pretty big generalization. I understand that our life
> experiences shape our views, and more importantly, our prejudices, but
> that doesn't mean that all blind women are what you're saying they
> are. In fact, I've met just as many blind young men who are what you
> describe. Also, you don't know the circumstances of every blind person
> who's still living at home. Of course, if you're talking about former
> dating partners, I would assume you did, but I would encourage you to
> have a little compassion and sensitivity to whatever emotional issues
> they might be facing that cause them to have no desire to leave home.
> Are they afraid of failure? Have their parents belittled, degraded, or
> even abused them due to their blindness?
> I understand that there are blind people, women and men, old and
> young, who have a chip on their shoulder and an entitlement complex a
> mile long. But you know what? You can choose not to associate with
> those people. Discouraging a kid from dating blind people is quite
> another thing though.
> My mom once told me when I was in high school and complaining about a
> relationship that didn't work out, "blind people are screwed up in the
> head. You shouldn't be dating them." By saying that, no matter how
> well-intentioned her response was, she was putting me in the same
> category. Can you imagine how I felt? To top it all off, in high
> school, relationships don't last forever, so that made it doubly
> hurtful.
> To summarize, I have no problem dating a blind or sighted person. I've
> dated both, and have had good and bad experiences with both. I also
> don't shy away from being supportive of people who might not be as
> strong as you and I are. Growing up, I never had much support from
> anyone. I've made a promise to myself that I won't repeat that pattern
> in my adulthood. Now, if a person is clearly trying to mooch off the
> system, throws a pity party constantly, refuses to practice good
> hygiene, and is grossly overweight due to perpetual inactivity, of
> course I won't date them. But those are my standards, and aren't
> limited to blindness. I wouldn't date a sighted person with those
> traits either.
>
> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> In my experiences with visually handicapped women most of them I've
>> encountered that are at my age level are uneducated and still living under
>> their parents roof.  My rule is that any woman I date should be on the
>> same
>> level both chronologically and mentally as I am.  I've graduated college
>> and
>> have been on my own since 2003. I am very independent.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>> Yeah, I would like to try dating a VI Girl, just to see what it would
>>> be like, But unfornchely their is no one hear in flint.
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> Me neither.  But I am just warning Jeff to be careful.  Back then when I
>>>> went on dates I enjoyed myself very much. But I noticed during the High
>>>> School years most girls weren't as accepting of me and I had more luck
>>>> with
>>>> dating during college than high school.  But again during the few times
>>>> I
>>>> dated as a teen I had fun.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ignasi Cambra" <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:43 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was fun!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I did
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time you
>>>>>> enter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness
>>>>>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get caught
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> in something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly
>>>>>> figuring out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck in
>>>>>> your studies and don't worry as you get older your chance to date will
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hear before you know it.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would like
>>>>>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening is
>>>>>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
>>>>>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it would
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
>>>>>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>>>>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this is my point of view
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world, but
>>>>>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>>>>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not
>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you can
>>>>>>> email me at
>>>>>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> with love and respect
>>>>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa. I'm
>>>>>>>> sooo
>>>>>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
>>>>>>>> happiness.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hugs,
>>>>>>>> amy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> we are.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>>>>>>> still working.
>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>>>>>> blind people
>>>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>>>>>> person.
>>>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
>>>>>>>> As a
>>>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>>>>>> some of
>>>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>>>>>> met
>>>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>>>>>> sites. I
>>>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>>>>>> share in
>>>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>>>>>> was on
>>>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>>>>>> blindness was
>>>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>>>>>> profile up
>>>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>>>>>> sites.
>>>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>>>>>> hence
>>>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>>>>>> profiles,
>>>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>>>>>> at some
>>>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>>>>>> happen at
>>>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>>>>>> get to
>>>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>>>>>> have done
>>>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>>>>>> blind. I
>>>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>>>>>> relationship I
>>>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>>>>>> blindness
>>>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>>>>>> interests and
>>>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>>>>>> passions
>>>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>>>>>> division,
>>>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>>>>>> simply for
>>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>>>>>> general
>>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>>>>>> necessarily
>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>>>>>> you meet
>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>>>>>> as they
>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>>>>>> when they
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>>>> forward to
>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>>>> like a
>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>>>>>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 73
>>> kd8qiq
>>> jeff crouch
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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-- 
73
kd8qiq
jeff crouch


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 01:34:29 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:34:29 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Blindtlk] MathFlow 2.0 Released
Message-ID: <4f6fc7b4.83d6e00a.70e3.ffffb5f8@mx.google.com>

FYI:

 ---- Original Message ------
From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com
Subject: [Blindtlk] MathFlow 2.0 Released
Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:33:21 -0500

--------------------------
MathFlow 2.0 Released
LONG BEACH, Calif.  - March 22, 2012 - Design Science today 
announced the
release of a major upgrade to its MathFlow product line.  
MathFlow is a
set of components that are widely used to add math editing, 
display and
accessibility to publishing and editorial systems, elearning and
assessment applications, enterprise solutions and commercial 
software
products.  The technology at the heart of MathFlow is MathML, the 
XML
standard for representing mathematical notation that is an 
integral part
of many documentation and accessibility standards, including HTML 
5,
EPUB 3, DAISY, DITA, DocBook, NLM, etc.
MathFlow 2.0 adds many new features, including support for MathML 
3's
elementary math and line-breaking, the ability to customize its 
look and
feel to match its host application, 64-bit Windows support, Plane 
1
Unicode, STIX fonts, localization, enhancements for geometry,
math-speech, accessibility and more.
"MathML is rapidly becoming essential to elearning system 
providers, and
publishers of ebooks and other online content.  MathFlow 2.0 is a 
major
step in the evolution of our industry-leading MathML component 
suite.
Besides providing the best MathML formatting, our support and 
training
are second to none.  There is just no reason for our customers to 
risk
the success of their publishing and development projects on any 
other
MathML solution," said Paul R.  Topping, Design Science's CEO.
Evaluation software, development licenses, and deployment 
licenses for
OEM distribution and enterprise solutions are available.  More
information is available on the Design Science website,
www.dessci.com.
About Design Science
Founded in 1986 and headquartered in Long Beach, California, 
Design
Science develops software used by educators, scientists and 
publishing
professionals, including MathType, Equation Editor in Microsoft 
Office,
MathFlow and MathPlayer, to communicate on the web and in print.  
For
more information please visit
www.dessci.com.
###
Bruce Virga -- brucev at dessci.com
EVP of Sales & Business Development, COO

Tel: +1 (562) 432-2920
Fax: +1 (562) 432-2857
Mobile: +1 (949) 233-8212

Design Science, Inc.  --
www.dessci.com
140 Pine Avenue, 4th Floor
Long Beach, California 90802 USA

~ Makers of MathType, MathFlow, MathPlayer, MathDaisy, Equation 
Editor ~


_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for blindtlk:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 01:34:49 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:34:49 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
Message-ID: <4f6fc7ca.83d6e00a.70e3.ffffb60a@mx.google.com>

Hi Joshua,

I'm sorry to hear about your mom's health! In that case, I 
completely understand your wanting to stay closer to home.  I 
hope she gets well soon and that nothing serious happens!

God bless,

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 23:50:29 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & 
Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

I have to stay, closer to home, due to my mom's health.
She's diabetic, and has lost a leg, due to diabetes.
I have to be close by, in case, (God forbid,) something happens 
to her.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home 
<ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
 I am not trying to be rude or condescending, but there is 
something that I
 need to know.  Is it that all other guide dog schools are to 
difficult to get
 to for some reason, or is it that you just don't want to travel 
that far
 from home? And, this is not just about the guide dog schools; 
this is about
 everything.

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:57 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & 
Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 It's closer to Arkansas, (where I live.)
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home 
<ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
 Is that the only school that you would consider?

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:50 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 I'm allergic to cats, dogs, and horses.
 I'm not sure, if Guiding Eyes trains poodles.
 That's an interesting question, and those of you, that received 
your
 dogs from there, may be able to answer that.
 If so, I might be on the lookout for one.
 Thanks, Joshua

 On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home 
<ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
 No dog is 100% allergy causing free, but most people who are 
allergic to
 dogs are not allergic to poodles or labordoodles.  That being 
said, I
 would
 like to know how many people are allergic to dogs.

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:33 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're 
dating
 has an allergy to dogs.
 That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
 I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
 Nicole, do you know if they do?
 Thanks, Joshua

 On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home 
<ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
 I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that 
they
 are
 not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you 
want one
 for
 this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide 
dogs
 can
 sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.  
However,
 there
 is
 of course a flip side to that.  Some people who have guide dogs 
don't
 like
 it
 when people talk to them because of their dogs. .

 Nicole

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello All,
 This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons.  
First,
 dating is hard as a blind person.  But dating can also be hard 
for
 someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average 
height,
 someone who has trouble hearing, etc.  In short, dating can be 
hard for
 anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall 
squarely in
 the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.  
Even
 geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a 
true
 story.
 I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend 
of
 mine a few days ago.  And one of the things we both agreed upon, 
is
 that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that 
most
 people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual 
being,
 who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable.  Which, 
like
 Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and 
other
 hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone 
and go
 on a date.  We have to carry a heavier burden by making 
ourselves even
 more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with 
our
 self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like 
this:
 Man and woman sit at bar.  Man and woman makes eye-contact.
 If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
 though not always, make a comment which will spark off 
conversation.
 If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation 
she will
 angle herself toward the man.  If conversation continues to be
 stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, 
casual
 touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
 Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective.  Man or woman 
walk
 into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted 
requests
 to be helped, man or woman find barstool.  After being observed 
to
 enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about 
blindness
 will have been activated.  And our shot of having this normal 
courting
 sequence is nipped at the bud.  Of course, a person who wasn't 
there
 before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
 instantly drawn in.  Which is why, I like to arrive early at 
parties
 and spark up a conversation with new comers.  When they find out 
your
 blind however, all bets are off.
 This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not 
have a
 dating experience.  On the contrary, I have been fairly 
successful in
 dating along with many other blind women and men I know.  Like 
Arielle
 and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should 
be
 irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and 
consider as a
 potential romantic partner.  there are so many other things that 
come
 into play.  What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
 intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
 parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal 
ideas
 they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but 
decide to
 stay with them because it's more comfortable.  Relationships are 
so
 incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from 
each
 other.  But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
 thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the 
person
 despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship 
than
 mere visual acuity.
 So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
 explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something 
your
 into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally 
something
 I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all 
means.  Be
  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the 
local
 bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house 
parties.  But
 most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for 
a
 sighted date or a blind date for validation.  Because that never 
ends
 well.  The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
 completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full 
happy and
 fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by 
the
 sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not.  But, 
you do
 learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more 
thing
 we have to do using alternative skills.  I know, from the 
experience of
 friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, 
because
 it makes them feel useful.  It validates their self-worth, since 
they
 have someone they can help all the time.  And I know blind 
people who
 think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
 experience.  I've done both, and speaking from a woman's 
perspective.
 All men have issues.  But you can find some truly golden ones 
among
 them all.
 A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual 
reference
 to fashion and looking good.  Dress to bring out the best 
features of
 yourself.  Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college 
chic,
 when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.  
Because I
 have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend.  Look nice, get 
some
 delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
 Sincerely,
 Mary

 On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 I'm gonna way in on this topic.
 My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around 
blind
 people
 growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind 
person.
 We've met in person twice and it's been great.
 Take care,
 Doug

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello all,
 Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my 
own
 experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people 
online.  As a
 matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, 
and he
 is blind as well.  We have been dating a little over a year now, 
and I
 have also had the chance to meet him in person.  I can say that 
some of
 what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good 
and
 bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more 
disastrous
 because of his family who are sighted.  Well the first time we 
actually
 got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families 
were
 present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of 
us
 being long distance, and it was the only way the two families 
could
 meet.  About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and 
that was
 a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part 
of
 another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers.  I
 actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it 
was
 hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind 
person
 besides him, and he is not as independent as I am.  I have also 
met
 sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating 
sites.  I
 met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my 
opinion,
 that's better because you're actually meeting people you have 
things
 in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like 
most
 people have said already, one of the main things to consider 
when
 dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you 
share in
 common with the other person.  I personally have never dated a 
sighted
 person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
 sighted.  Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because 
I
 haven't wanted to tell them.  I don't meet these people in 
person
 mainly because most of them are not from the U.S.  and therefore 
it
 really hasn't come up.  Besides, I'm not as close to them, and 
we
 mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with 
most of
 these people I meet anyway.  I have also met blind friends 
online, and
 basically the same goes for them.  So as most people have 
already said,
 I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person 
from a
 blind person.  A blind person might be a little more 
understanding
 considering they go through some of the same things.  But on the 
other
 side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't 
completely
 adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family 
their
 entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue 
such
 as in my case.  So I think dating both blind and sighted people 
can
 have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how 
to
 handle each situation as it comes.  Good luck.


 On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi all,
 I have a little experience with online dating, but not much.  I 
was on
 a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but 
didn't
 find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person.  I have a lot 
of
 friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard 
the
 whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous 
first
 dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's 
blindness was
 revealed online.  It really doesn't hurt to try it.  If you do 
find
 someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a 
public
 place.  But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a 
profile up
 and seeing what happens.
 Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
 Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting 
my
 sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid 
sites.
 I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it 
and
 said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more 
attractive
 and appealing than the guys on the paid one.  So it's possible 
the
 people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and 
hence
 are better catches.
 I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness 
during
 an online dating encounter.  Some people put it in their 
profiles,
 others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it 
at some
 point in the middle.  I'd tend to treat it like a job interview 
and
 reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but 
before
 we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out 
when
 they see me.  Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can 
happen at
 any point in the process.  You'll have to decide whether you 
would
 prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to 
get to
 know you before they learn about your blindness.
 Regarding dating blind vs.  sighted people: Like many of us I 
have done
 both.  I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind 
person
 or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of 
thinking.
 I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt 
the
 same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were 
blind.  I
 will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship 
was
 easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about 
what
 nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret 
my
 nonverbal signals.  However, when I try to compare the 
relationship I
 have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years 
with the
 other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't 
think
 of any major differences.  I do think that regardless of 
blindness
 status, it's important for you and your partner to share 
interests and
 passions in common.  NFB and blindness are passions that many of 
us
 share, and they help bring many blind couples together.  
However, there
 are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
 around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those 
passions
 with you can be similarly rewarding.  In other words, instead of
 deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, 
I
 think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
 common with them.  I know that for us blind folks it can be hard 
to
 meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like 
singles'
 parties.  But if you can find communities of people that share 
your
 interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student 
division,
 classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much 
better
 way to build lasting connections.
 Arielle

 On 3/22/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention 
simply for
 the dating scene.  I'm sure relationships do develop at things 
like
 that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with 
general
 sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc 
etc
 to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.

 Later.

 On 22.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> 
wrote:
 Hello Robin,

 Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and 
learn
 from it.  It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
 others.
 As for the sighted vs.  blind thing, I would ask what you want.  
Not
 dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool 
and
 more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
 options,
 just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of 
being
 rejected is crazy as well.  We're all individuals.  Many blind 
people
 have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
 blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to 
necessarily
 feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, 
etc
 etc.  Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
 questions.
 Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
 educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
 willing
 to learn and it could work out.  As for good dating sites ...  
why not
 just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
 status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences 
that
 are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
 (whether online or not).

 Anyway, talk to you later and peace.  May you have much luck 
with
 your
 dating search.

 Nimer J

 On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> 
wrote:
 Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, 
that
 pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when 
you
 meet
 them, they're a criminal.
 Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
 Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh 
yes,
 there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
 would
 be
 very
 careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming 
as
 they
 appear to be over emails.  I have dated very few blind people 
and
 find
 that
 there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
 feel
 that
 is
 a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on 
a
 daily
 basis and want to know we are more than our blindness.  I have
 found
 there
 are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially 
when
 they
 are
 confident and out going.  I have been in a relationship with a
 sited
 person
 for 3 years and things are wonderful.
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
 To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
 Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello to everyone,
 I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
 dating
 and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
 you
 had
 with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look 
forward
 to
 hearing your stories.


 I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
 Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, 
like
 a
 breeze

 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


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 nabs-l:
 
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%40gmail.com



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 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended 
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
 contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil 
or
 criminal action.  I have checked this email and all 
corresponding
 attachments for security threats.  However, security of your 
machine
 is
 up to you.  Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating
 system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
 news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
 (720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.



 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended 
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
 contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil 
or
 criminal action.  I have checked this email and all 
corresponding
 attachments for security threats.  However, security of your 
machine
 is
 up to you.  Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
 (720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

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 --
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 Emory 2012
 "Do I dare
 Disturb the universe?
 In a minute there is time
 For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
 --
 T.S.  Eliot

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 01:34:45 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:34:45 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
Message-ID: <4f6fc7c5.83d6e00a.70e3.ffffb606@mx.google.com>

Yes, because that's her religion and that's what she believes in.  
She freely chose to convert to Islam, and that's incidentally 
what they believe.  Beth, if I'm stepping over the line in trying 
to defend you, please let me know! :)

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 00:22:35 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

Would you give up on all the benefits of having a guide dog just
because at some point a long time ago someone decided that dogs 
arr
not pure...?

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 22, 2012, at 10:47 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> 
wrote:

 For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want 
or any Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
 Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

 I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that 
they are
 not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you 
want one for
 this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide 
dogs can
 sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.  
However, there is
 of course a flip side to that.  Some people who have guide dogs 
don't like it
 when people talk to them because of their dogs. .

 Nicole

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello All,
 This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons.  
First,
 dating is hard as a blind person.  But dating can also be hard 
for
 someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average 
height,
 someone who has trouble hearing, etc.  In short, dating can be 
hard for
 anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall 
squarely in
 the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.  
Even
 geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a 
true
 story.
 I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend 
of
 mine a few days ago.  And one of the things we both agreed upon, 
is
 that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that 
most
 people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual 
being,
 who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable.  Which, 
like
 Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and 
other
 hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone 
and go
 on a date.  We have to carry a heavier burden by making 
ourselves even
 more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with 
our
 self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like 
this:
 Man and woman sit at bar.  Man and woman makes eye-contact.
 If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
 though not always, make a comment which will spark off 
conversation.
 If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation 
she will
 angle herself toward the man.  If conversation continues to be
 stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, 
casual
 touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
 Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective.  Man or woman 
walk
 into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted 
requests
 to be helped, man or woman find barstool.  After being observed 
to
 enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about 
blindness
 will have been activated.  And our shot of having this normal 
courting
 sequence is nipped at the bud.  Of course, a person who wasn't 
there
 before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
 instantly drawn in.  Which is why, I like to arrive early at 
parties
 and spark up a conversation with new comers.  When they find out 
your
 blind however, all bets are off.
 This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not 
have a
 dating experience.  On the contrary, I have been fairly 
successful in
 dating along with many other blind women and men I know.  Like 
Arielle
 and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should 
be
 irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and 
consider as a
 potential romantic partner.  there are so many other things that 
come
 into play.  What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
 intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
 parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal 
ideas
 they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but 
decide to
 stay with them because it's more comfortable.  Relationships are 
so
 incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from 
each
 other.  But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
 thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the 
person
 despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship 
than
 mere visual acuity.
 So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
 explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something 
your
 into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally 
something
 I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all 
means.  Be
 creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the 
local
 bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house 
parties.  But
 most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for 
a
 sighted date or a blind date for validation.  Because that never 
ends
 well.  The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
 completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full 
happy and
 fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by 
the
 sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not.  But, 
you do
 learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more 
thing
 we have to do using alternative skills.  I know, from the 
experience of
 friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, 
because
 it makes them feel useful.  It validates their self-worth, since 
they
 have someone they can help all the time.  And I know blind 
people who
 think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
 experience.  I've done both, and speaking from a woman's 
perspective.
 All men have issues.  But you can find some truly golden ones 
among
 them all.
 A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual 
reference
 to fashion and looking good.  Dress to bring out the best 
features of
 yourself.  Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college 
chic,
 when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.  
Because I
 have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend.  Look nice, get 
some
 delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
 Sincerely,
 Mary

 On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 I'm gonna way in on this topic.
 My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around 
blind people
 growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind 
person.
 We've met in person twice and it's been great.
 Take care,
 Doug

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello all,
 Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my 
own
 experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people 
online.  As a
 matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, 
and he
 is blind as well.  We have been dating a little over a year now, 
and I
 have also had the chance to meet him in person.  I can say that 
some of
 what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good 
and
 bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more 
disastrous
 because of his family who are sighted.  Well the first time we 
actually
 got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families 
were
 present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of 
us
 being long distance, and it was the only way the two families 
could
 meet.  About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and 
that was
 a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part 
of
 another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers.  I
 actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it 
was
 hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind 
person
 besides him, and he is not as independent as I am.  I have also 
met
 sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating 
sites.  I
 met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my 
opinion,
 that's better because you're actually meeting people you have 
things
 in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like 
most
 people have said already, one of the main things to consider 
when
 dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you 
share in
 common with the other person.  I personally have never dated a 
sighted
 person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
 sighted.  Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because 
I
 haven't wanted to tell them.  I don't meet these people in 
person
 mainly because most of them are not from the U.S.  and therefore 
it
 really hasn't come up.  Besides, I'm not as close to them, and 
we
 mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with 
most of
 these people I meet anyway.  I have also met blind friends 
online, and
 basically the same goes for them.  So as most people have 
already said,
 I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person 
from a
 blind person.  A blind person might be a little more 
understanding
 considering they go through some of the same things.  But on the 
other
 side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't 
completely
 adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family 
their
 entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue 
such
 as in my case.  So I think dating both blind and sighted people 
can
 have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how 
to
 handle each situation as it comes.  Good luck.


 On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi all,
 I have a little experience with online dating, but not much.  I 
was on
 a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but 
didn't
 find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person.  I have a lot 
of
 friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard 
the
 whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous 
first
 dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's 
blindness was
 revealed online.  It really doesn't hurt to try it.  If you do 
find
 someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a 
public
 place.  But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a 
profile up
 and seeing what happens.
 Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
 Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting 
my
 sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid 
sites.
 I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it 
and
 said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more 
attractive
 and appealing than the guys on the paid one.  So it's possible 
the
 people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and 
hence
 are better catches.
 I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness 
during
 an online dating encounter.  Some people put it in their 
profiles,
 others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it 
at some
 point in the middle.  I'd tend to treat it like a job interview 
and
 reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but 
before
 we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out 
when
 they see me.  Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can 
happen at
 any point in the process.  You'll have to decide whether you 
would
 prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to 
get to
 know you before they learn about your blindness.
 Regarding dating blind vs.  sighted people: Like many of us I 
have done
 both.  I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind 
person
 or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of 
thinking.
 I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt 
the
 same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were 
blind.  I
 will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship 
was
 easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about 
what
 nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret 
my
 nonverbal signals.  However, when I try to compare the 
relationship I
 have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years 
with the
 other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't 
think
 of any major differences.  I do think that regardless of 
blindness
 status, it's important for you and your partner to share 
interests and
 passions in common.  NFB and blindness are passions that many of 
us
 share, and they help bring many blind couples together.  
However, there
 are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
 around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those 
passions
 with you can be similarly rewarding.  In other words, instead of
 deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, 
I
 think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
 common with them.  I know that for us blind folks it can be hard 
to
 meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like 
singles'
 parties.  But if you can find communities of people that share 
your
 interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student 
division,
 classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much 
better
 way to build lasting connections.
 Arielle

 On 3/22/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention 
simply for
 the dating scene.  I'm sure relationships do develop at things 
like
 that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with 
general
 sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc 
etc
 to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.

 Later.

 On 22.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> 
wrote:
 Hello Robin,

 Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and 
learn
 from it.  It has turned out well for some, and not so well for 
others.
 As for the sighted vs.  blind thing, I would ask what you want.  
Not
 dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool 
and
 more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your 
options,
 just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of 
being
 rejected is crazy as well.  We're all individuals.  Many blind 
people
 have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
 blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to 
necessarily
 feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, 
etc
 etc.  Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many 
questions.
 Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
 educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are 
willing
 to learn and it could work out.  As for good dating sites ...  
why not
 just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
 status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences 
that
 are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
 (whether online or not).

 Anyway, talk to you later and peace.  May you have much luck 
with your
 dating search.

 Nimer J

 On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> 
wrote:
 Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, 
that
 pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when 
you meet
 them, they're a criminal.
 Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
 Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh 
yes,
 there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I 
would
 be
 very
 careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming 
as
 they
 appear to be over emails.  I have dated very few blind people 
and find
 that
 there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I 
feel
 that
 is
 a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on 
a
 daily
 basis and want to know we are more than our blindness.  I have 
found
 there
 are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially 
when
 they
 are
 confident and out going.  I have been in a relationship with a 
sited
 person
 for 3 years and things are wonderful.
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
 To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
 Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello to everyone,
 I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
 dating
 and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have 
you
 had
 with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look 
forward to
 hearing your stories.


 I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
 Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, 
like a
 breeze

 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


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 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended 
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its 
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil 
or
 criminal action.  I have checked this email and all 
corresponding
 attachments for security threats.  However, security of your 
machine is
 up to you.  Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.



 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended 
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its 
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil 
or
 criminal action.  I have checked this email and all 
corresponding
 attachments for security threats.  However, security of your 
machine is
 up to you.  Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 _______________________________________________
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 --
 Mary Fernandez
 Emory 2012
 "Do I dare
 Disturb the universe?
 In a minute there is time
 For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
 --
 T.S.  Eliot

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 01:34:52 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:34:52 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Joseph Roeder Assistive Technology Scholarship
Message-ID: <4f6fc7cc.83d6e00a.70e3.ffffb60c@mx.google.com>

I thought some of you may be interested in this scholarship.  
Please see below:

 ---- Original Message ------
From: Mollyne Honor <mrhonor at LBPH.LIB.MD.US
Subject: Joseph Roeder Assistive Technology Scholarship
Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 15:46:36 -0400

Joseph Roeder Assistive Technology Scholarship Application Due 
May 5
Kathleen Gallagher, Learning and Development Manager, National 
Industries
for the Blind (NIB)



NIB is seeking applicants for the Joseph Roeder Assistive 
Technology
Scholarship, a $2,500 scholarship to an individual who is blind, 
interested
in pursuing education in computer science, information systems or 
a related
field, and pursuing a career in access technology.  The 
scholarship is named
in memory of Joe Roeder, who served as senior access technology 
specialist
at NIB from 1997 until his death in 2010.



Joe Roeder had 40 years of experience in the fields of design 
engineering,
electronic information systems, training and business management, 
including
experience as a mechanical and nuclear engineer at Bechtel Power
Corporation.  He was instrumental in the development of Section 
508 of the
Electronic and Information Technology Accessibility Standards, 
which
requires all federal government agencies to provide accessible 
data and
information for employees with disabilities.



Individuals to be considered for the scholarship are entering 
their third or
fourth year of college or graduate school, or are changing 
careers to pursue
a career in assistive technology.



All applications and additional documents must be submitted 
online no later
than May 5, 2012.  The top candidates will be interviewed by 
phone during the
week of May 21, 2012, and the winner will be announced in June 
2012.  The
scholarship application is available online.



If you have any questions, please contact Kathy Gallagher at 
703-310-0343 or
kgallagher at nib.org.






From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 01:34:35 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:34:35 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
Message-ID: <4f6fc7ba.83d6e00a.70e3.ffffb5fe@mx.google.com>

See you in Dallas!!

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:36:40 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

You met this guy, that you're dating now, in person.
Those relationships are the ones that usually last!
To respond to Nimer's point about not going to the NFB 
conventions
just to meet someone, I agree, and wasn't implying that.
What I was saying, is that you still could meet someone, as a 
result
of attending one.
Just go, to connect with other blind people, and find some great 
deals
on technology!
That's why I'm going, again!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
 I'm currently dating a blind man right now that I met at 
Colorado
 Center for the Blind.  We've been together for nearly two years.
 I'vfe dated online, and I actually found someone who used to be
 on this list, but we fizzled out after two months.  Then, I 
tried
 Craig's List, not a good choice because I had guys that I wasn't
 sure would fit the bill.  I've dated a sighted guy or two, and
 had a crush on several other sighted guys, but they openly
 rejected me, which bothered me.  The rejections were a result of
 me being the only blind person in the school who wasn't "special
 ed", if you know what I mean.  I honestly was not fitting in at
 the regular ed level as far as ating went.  My parents forbade 
me
 from dating, and now that I'm with this guy, I'm having culture
 clashes.  For instance, he wants to marry a cousin, which is
 illegal in the United States depending on how close you are with
 the cousins you say you want to marry.  I'm trying to discourage
 the cousin marriage because it's not legal and it could result 
in
 defective children.  HE has a total defect in his eyes that 
could
 mean the difference between being single for life and being
 married to someone who might not understand the alternative
 techniques of blindness.  For me, I don't think I see myself 
with
 anyone else because he understands, but any other Muslim man
 might not support me because of both blindness and a secondary
 mental illness that came about as a result of my parents' fickle
 parenting.  Just my thoughts.
 Beth
  ----- Original Message -----
 From: Robin <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
 To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:47:45 -0700
 Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

 Hello to everyone,
 I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
 dating and if so what sites would you recommend? What 
experiences
 have you had with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? 
I
 look forward to hearing your stories.


 I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
 Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
 vague,
 like a breeze among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon Mar 26 01:39:41 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:39:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <4f6fc7ca.83d6e00a.70e3.ffffb60a@mx.google.com>
References: <4f6fc7ca.83d6e00a.70e3.ffffb60a@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOstnKCA_-FzKoimxnGDUHcwW668o26uL_LBLzjdzTV5Vw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Chris.
I appreciate the kindness.
Thanks again.
Joshua

On 3/25/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Joshua,
>
> I'm sorry to hear about your mom's health! In that case, I
> completely understand your wanting to stay closer to home.  I
> hope she gets well soon and that nothing serious happens!
>
> God bless,
>
> Chris
>
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
> nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 23:50:29 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating &
> Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
> I have to stay, closer to home, due to my mom's health.
> She's diabetic, and has lost a leg, due to diabetes.
> I have to be close by, in case, (God forbid,) something happens
> to her.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>  I am not trying to be rude or condescending, but there is
> something that I
>  need to know.  Is it that all other guide dog schools are to
> difficult to get
>  to for some reason, or is it that you just don't want to travel
> that far
>  from home? And, this is not just about the guide dog schools;
> this is about
>  everything.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:57 PM
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating &
> Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  It's closer to Arkansas, (where I live.)
>  Blessings, Joshua
>
>  On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>  Is that the only school that you would consider?
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:50 PM
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  I'm allergic to cats, dogs, and horses.
>  I'm not sure, if Guiding Eyes trains poodles.
>  That's an interesting question, and those of you, that received
> your
>  dogs from there, may be able to answer that.
>  If so, I might be on the lookout for one.
>  Thanks, Joshua
>
>  On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>  No dog is 100% allergy causing free, but most people who are
> allergic to
>  dogs are not allergic to poodles or labordoodles.  That being
> said, I
>  would
>  like to know how many people are allergic to dogs.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:33 PM
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're
> dating
>  has an allergy to dogs.
>  That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
>  I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
>  Nicole, do you know if they do?
>  Thanks, Joshua
>
>  On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>  I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that
> they
>  are
>  not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you
> want one
>  for
>  this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide
> dogs
>  can
>  sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.
> However,
>  there
>  is
>  of course a flip side to that.  Some people who have guide dogs
> don't
>  like
>  it
>  when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>
>  Nicole
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  Hello All,
>  This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons.
> First,
>  dating is hard as a blind person.  But dating can also be hard
> for
>  someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average
> height,
>  someone who has trouble hearing, etc.  In short, dating can be
> hard for
>  anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall
> squarely in
>  the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.
> Even
>  geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a
> true
>  story.
>  I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend
> of
>  mine a few days ago.  And one of the things we both agreed upon,
> is
>  that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that
> most
>  people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual
> being,
>  who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable.  Which,
> like
>  Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and
> other
>  hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone
> and go
>  on a date.  We have to carry a heavier burden by making
> ourselves even
>  more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with
> our
>  self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like
> this:
>  Man and woman sit at bar.  Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>  If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>  though not always, make a comment which will spark off
> conversation.
>  If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation
> she will
>  angle herself toward the man.  If conversation continues to be
>  stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection,
> casual
>  touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>  Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective.  Man or woman
> walk
>  into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted
> requests
>  to be helped, man or woman find barstool.  After being observed
> to
>  enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about
> blindness
>  will have been activated.  And our shot of having this normal
> courting
>  sequence is nipped at the bud.  Of course, a person who wasn't
> there
>  before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>  instantly drawn in.  Which is why, I like to arrive early at
> parties
>  and spark up a conversation with new comers.  When they find out
> your
>  blind however, all bets are off.
>  This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not
> have a
>  dating experience.  On the contrary, I have been fairly
> successful in
>  dating along with many other blind women and men I know.  Like
> Arielle
>  and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should
> be
>  irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and
> consider as a
>  potential romantic partner.  there are so many other things that
> come
>  into play.  What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>  intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>  parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal
> ideas
>  they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but
> decide to
>  stay with them because it's more comfortable.  Relationships are
> so
>  incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from
> each
>  other.  But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>  thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the
> person
>  despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship
> than
>  mere visual acuity.
>  So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>  explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something
> your
>  into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally
> something
>  I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all
> means.  Be
>   creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the
> local
>  bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house
> parties.  But
>  most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for
> a
>  sighted date or a blind date for validation.  Because that never
> ends
>  well.  The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>  completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full
> happy and
>  fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by
> the
>  sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not.  But,
> you do
>  learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more
> thing
>  we have to do using alternative skills.  I know, from the
> experience of
>  friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people,
> because
>  it makes them feel useful.  It validates their self-worth, since
> they
>  have someone they can help all the time.  And I know blind
> people who
>  think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>  experience.  I've done both, and speaking from a woman's
> perspective.
>  All men have issues.  But you can find some truly golden ones
> among
>  them all.
>  A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual
> reference
>  to fashion and looking good.  Dress to bring out the best
> features of
>  yourself.  Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college
> chic,
>  when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.
> Because I
>  have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend.  Look nice, get
> some
>  delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>  Sincerely,
>  Mary
>
>  On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>  My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
> blind
>  people
>  growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
> person.
>  We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>  Take care,
>  Doug
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  Hello all,
>  Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
> own
>  experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people
> online.  As a
>  matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online,
> and he
>  is blind as well.  We have been dating a little over a year now,
> and I
>  have also had the chance to meet him in person.  I can say that
> some of
>  what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
> and
>  bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more
> disastrous
>  because of his family who are sighted.  Well the first time we
> actually
>  got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
> were
>  present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of
> us
>  being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
> could
>  meet.  About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and
> that was
>  a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part
> of
>  another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers.  I
>  actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
> was
>  hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
> person
>  besides him, and he is not as independent as I am.  I have also
> met
>  sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
> sites.  I
>  met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
> opinion,
>  that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
> things
>  in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
> most
>  people have said already, one of the main things to consider
> when
>  dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
> share in
>  common with the other person.  I personally have never dated a
> sighted
>  person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>  sighted.  Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because
> I
>  haven't wanted to tell them.  I don't meet these people in
> person
>  mainly because most of them are not from the U.S.  and therefore
> it
>  really hasn't come up.  Besides, I'm not as close to them, and
> we
>  mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with
> most of
>  these people I meet anyway.  I have also met blind friends
> online, and
>  basically the same goes for them.  So as most people have
> already said,
>  I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
> from a
>  blind person.  A blind person might be a little more
> understanding
>  considering they go through some of the same things.  But on the
> other
>  side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
> completely
>  adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
> their
>  entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
> such
>  as in my case.  So I think dating both blind and sighted people
> can
>  have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
> to
>  handle each situation as it comes.  Good luck.
>
>
>  On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi all,
>  I have a little experience with online dating, but not much.  I
> was on
>  a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
> didn't
>  find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person.  I have a lot
> of
>  friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
> the
>  whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
> first
>  dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
> blindness was
>  revealed online.  It really doesn't hurt to try it.  If you do
> find
>  someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
> public
>  place.  But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
> profile up
>  and seeing what happens.
>  Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>  Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
> my
>  sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
> sites.
>  I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
> and
>  said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
> attractive
>  and appealing than the guys on the paid one.  So it's possible
> the
>  people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
> hence
>  are better catches.
>  I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
> during
>  an online dating encounter.  Some people put it in their
> profiles,
>  others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
> at some
>  point in the middle.  I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
> and
>  reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
> before
>  we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
> when
>  they see me.  Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
> happen at
>  any point in the process.  You'll have to decide whether you
> would
>  prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
> get to
>  know you before they learn about your blindness.
>  Regarding dating blind vs.  sighted people: Like many of us I
> have done
>  both.  I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
> person
>  or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
> thinking.
>  I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
> the
>  same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
> blind.  I
>  will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
> was
>  easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
> what
>  nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
> my
>  nonverbal signals.  However, when I try to compare the
> relationship I
>  have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
> with the
>  other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
> think
>  of any major differences.  I do think that regardless of
> blindness
>  status, it's important for you and your partner to share
> interests and
>  passions in common.  NFB and blindness are passions that many of
> us
>  share, and they help bring many blind couples together.
> However, there
>  are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>  around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
> passions
>  with you can be similarly rewarding.  In other words, instead of
>  deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
> I
>  think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>  common with them.  I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
> to
>  meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
> singles'
>  parties.  But if you can find communities of people that share
> your
>  interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
> division,
>  classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
> better
>  way to build lasting connections.
>  Arielle
>
>  On 3/22/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
> simply for
>  the dating scene.  I'm sure relationships do develop at things
> like
>  that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
> general
>  sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
> etc
>  to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>
>  Later.
>
>  On 22.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  Hello Robin,
>
>  Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
> learn
>  from it.  It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>  others.
>  As for the sighted vs.  blind thing, I would ask what you want.
> Not
>  dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
> and
>  more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>  options,
>  just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
> being
>  rejected is crazy as well.  We're all individuals.  Many blind
> people
>  have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>  blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to
> necessarily
>  feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
> etc
>  etc.  Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>  questions.
>  Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>  educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>  willing
>  to learn and it could work out.  As for good dating sites ...
> why not
>  just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>  status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
> that
>  are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>  (whether online or not).
>
>  Anyway, talk to you later and peace.  May you have much luck
> with
>  your
>  dating search.
>
>  Nimer J
>
>  On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>  Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
> that
>  pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
> you
>  meet
>  them, they're a criminal.
>  Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>  Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
> yes,
>  there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>  Blessings, Joshua
>
>  On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi,
>  I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>  would
>  be
>  very
>  careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
> as
>  they
>  appear to be over emails.  I have dated very few blind people
> and
>  find
>  that
>  there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>  feel
>  that
>  is
>  a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
> a
>  daily
>  basis and want to know we are more than our blindness.  I have
>  found
>  there
>  are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially
> when
>  they
>  are
>  confident and out going.  I have been in a relationship with a
>  sited
>  person
>  for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>  To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>  Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  Hello to everyone,
>  I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>  dating
>  and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>  you
>  had
>  with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
> forward
>  to
>  hearing your stories.
>
>
>  I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>  Perhaps
>  there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
> like
>  a
>  breeze
>
>  among flowers.
>  Hellen Keller
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
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>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info
>  for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
> %40gmail.com
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
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>
>
>  _______________________________________________
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> 0gmail.com
>
>
>
>  --
>  Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>  addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
> recipient,
>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>  correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>  contents
>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
> or
>  criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
> corresponding
>  attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
> machine
>  is
>  up to you.  Thanks.
>
>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>  http://counter.li.org/
>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>  system,
>  please click here:
>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
> XP
>  and above, please click here:
>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>
>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>  news.
>
>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>  (720)
>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>
>
>  --
>  Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>  addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
> recipient,
>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>  correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>  contents
>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
> or
>  criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
> corresponding
>  attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
> machine
>  is
>  up to you.  Thanks.
>
>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>  http://counter.li.org/
>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
> system,
>  please click here:
>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
> XP
>  and above, please click here:
>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>
>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
> news.
>
>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>  (720)
>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
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>
>
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>
>
>  --
>  Mary Fernandez
>  Emory 2012
>  "Do I dare
>  Disturb the universe?
>  In a minute there is time
>  For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>  --
>  T.S.  Eliot
>
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 01:34:40 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:34:40 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
Message-ID: <4f6fc7c0.83d6e00a.70e3.ffffb603@mx.google.com>

By the way, I recall hearing something from Leader Dogs about 
them training laborodoodles.  Don't quote me on that, though; I 
would check with them before you decide to see if they train that 
type of dog.

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:45:30 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want or
any Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that
they are
not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you
want one for
this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide
dogs can
sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.
However, there is
of course a flip side to that.  Some people who have guide dogs
don't like it
when people talk to them because of their dogs. .

Nicole

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


Hello All,
This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons.  First,
dating is hard as a blind person.  But dating can also be hard 
for
someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average
height,
someone who has trouble hearing, etc.  In short, dating can be
hard for
anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall
squarely in
the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.
Even
geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a
true
story.
I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend
of
mine a few days ago.  And one of the things we both agreed upon,
is
that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that
most
people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual
being,
who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable.  Which, like
Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and
other
hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and
go
on a date.  We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves
even
more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with
our
self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like
this:
Man and woman sit at bar.  Man and woman makes eye-contact.
If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
though not always, make a comment which will spark off
conversation.
If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she
will
angle herself toward the man.  If conversation continues to be
stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection,
casual
touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective.  Man or woman
walk
into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted
requests
to be helped, man or woman find barstool.  After being observed 
to
enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about
blindness
will have been activated.  And our shot of having this normal
courting
sequence is nipped at the bud.  Of course, a person who wasn't
there
before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
instantly drawn in.  Which is why, I like to arrive early at
parties
and spark up a conversation with new comers.  When they find out
your
blind however, all bets are off.
This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not
have a
dating experience.  On the contrary, I have been fairly 
successful
in
dating along with many other blind women and men I know.  Like
Arielle
and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should
be
irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider
as a
potential romantic partner.  there are so many other things that
come
into play.  What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal
ideas
they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but
decide to
stay with them because it's more comfortable.  Relationships are
so
incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
other.  But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the
person
despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship
than
mere visual acuity.
So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something
your
into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally
something
I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all
means.  Be
 creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the
local
bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house
parties.  But
most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
sighted date or a blind date for validation.  Because that never
ends
well.  The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy
and
fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by
the
sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not.  But,
you do
learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more
thing
we have to do using alternative skills.  I know, from the
experience of
friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people,
because
it makes them feel useful.  It validates their self-worth, since
they
have someone they can help all the time.  And I know blind people
who
think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
experience.  I've done both, and speaking from a woman's
perspective.
All men have issues.  But you can find some truly golden ones
among
them all.
A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual
reference
to fashion and looking good.  Dress to bring out the best 
features
of
yourself.  Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college
chic,
when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.
Because I
have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend.  Look nice, get
some
delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
Sincerely,
Mary

On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 I'm gonna way in on this topic.
 My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
blind people
 growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
person.
 We've met in person twice and it's been great.
 Take care,
 Doug

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello all,
 Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
own
 experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people
online.  As a
 matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online,
and he
 is blind as well.  We have been dating a little over a year now,
and I
 have also had the chance to meet him in person.  I can say that
some of
 what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
and
 bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more
disastrous
 because of his family who are sighted.  Well the first time we
actually
 got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
were
 present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of
us
 being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
could
 meet.  About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and
that was
 a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part
of
 another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers.  I
 actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
was
 hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
person
 besides him, and he is not as independent as I am.  I have also
met
 sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
sites.  I
 met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
opinion,
 that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
things
 in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
most
 people have said already, one of the main things to consider
when
 dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
share in
 common with the other person.  I personally have never dated a
sighted
 person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
 sighted.  Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because 
I
 haven't wanted to tell them.  I don't meet these people in 
person
 mainly because most of them are not from the U.S.  and therefore
it
 really hasn't come up.  Besides, I'm not as close to them, and 
we
 mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with
most of
 these people I meet anyway.  I have also met blind friends
online, and
 basically the same goes for them.  So as most people have 
already
said,
 I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
from a
 blind person.  A blind person might be a little more
understanding
 considering they go through some of the same things.  But on the
other
 side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
completely
 adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
their
 entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
such
 as in my case.  So I think dating both blind and sighted people
can
 have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
to
 handle each situation as it comes.  Good luck.


 On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi all,
 I have a little experience with online dating, but not much.  I
was on
 a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
didn't
 find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person.  I have a lot 
of
 friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
the
 whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
first
 dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
blindness was
 revealed online.  It really doesn't hurt to try it.  If you do
find
 someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
public
 place.  But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
profile up
 and seeing what happens.
 Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
 Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
my
 sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
sites.
 I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
and
 said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
attractive
 and appealing than the guys on the paid one.  So it's possible
the
 people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
hence
 are better catches.
 I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
during
 an online dating encounter.  Some people put it in their
profiles,
 others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
at some
 point in the middle.  I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
and
 reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
before
 we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
when
 they see me.  Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
happen at
 any point in the process.  You'll have to decide whether you
would
 prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
get to
 know you before they learn about your blindness.
 Regarding dating blind vs.  sighted people: Like many of us I
have done
 both.  I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
person
 or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
thinking.
 I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
the
 same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
blind.  I
 will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
was
 easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
what
 nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
my
 nonverbal signals.  However, when I try to compare the
relationship I
 have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
with the
 other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
think
 of any major differences.  I do think that regardless of
blindness
 status, it's important for you and your partner to share
interests and
 passions in common.  NFB and blindness are passions that many of
us
 share, and they help bring many blind couples together.  
However,
there
 are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
 around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
passions
 with you can be similarly rewarding.  In other words, instead of
 deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
I
 think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
 common with them.  I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
to
 meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
singles'
 parties.  But if you can find communities of people that share
your
 interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
division,
 classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
better
 way to build lasting connections.
 Arielle

 On 3/22/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
simply for
 the dating scene.  I'm sure relationships do develop at things
like
 that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
general
 sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
etc
 to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.

 Later.

 On 22.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
wrote:
 Hello Robin,

 Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
learn
 from it.  It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
others.
 As for the sighted vs.  blind thing, I would ask what you want.
Not
 dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
and
 more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
options,
 just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
being
 rejected is crazy as well.  We're all individuals.  Many blind
people
 have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
 blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to
necessarily
 feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
etc
 etc.  Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
questions.
 Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
 educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
willing
 to learn and it could work out.  As for good dating sites ...  
why
not
 just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
 status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
that
 are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
 (whether online or not).

 Anyway, talk to you later and peace.  May you have much luck 
with
your
 dating search.

 Nimer J

 On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
wrote:
 Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
that
 pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
you meet
 them, they're a criminal.
 Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
 Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
yes,
 there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
would
 be
 very
 careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
as
 they
 appear to be over emails.  I have dated very few blind people 
and
find
 that
 there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
feel
 that
 is
 a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
a
 daily
 basis and want to know we are more than our blindness.  I have
found
 there
 are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially
when
 they
 are
 confident and out going.  I have been in a relationship with a
sited
 person
 for 3 years and things are wonderful.
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
 To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
 Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello to everyone,
 I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
 dating
 and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
you
 had
 with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
forward to
 hearing your stories.


 I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
 Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
like a
 breeze

 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


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 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
or
 criminal action.  I have checked this email and all 
corresponding
 attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
machine is
 up to you.  Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.



 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
or
 criminal action.  I have checked this email and all 
corresponding
 attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
machine is
 up to you.  Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

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--
Mary Fernandez
Emory 2012
"Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
--
T.S.  Eliot

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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon Mar 26 01:37:29 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:37:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <000301cd0ae2$d9c0a4a0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
References: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>
	<737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>
	<00e201cd0a0a$f3b21f20$db165d60$@comcast.net>
	<CA+N-3k1HhysTv+09-MPjnmuXwHjukM4cLwHt8b0KR9RRTh63Jg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000a01cd0a78$922676c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<-4225011247113051920@unknownmsgid>
	<000301cd0acc$fa63c0e0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CA+N-3k3QFfAMV0GYUVzmrpWHrb2FGiu-CBjzcO3eRvpTRpUfQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000301cd0ae2$d9c0a4a0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOs0=pXg4j3jUNddZV_b83BvREs3vOPLRQFBWuPEGiQq0w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Brian.
I know plenty of blind women, who are endependent!
Didn't you say in a previous post, that you were an aspiring DJ?
Why not try to apply to work for this station?
http://www.wics.cc
The owner of this station, is an endependent blind woman!
Please try to show more compassion!
Thanks, Desiree, for the great post!
I'm in agreement with you!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> In my experiences with visually handicapped women most of them I've
> encountered that are at my age level are uneducated and still living under
> their parents roof.  My rule is that any woman I date should be on the same
> level both chronologically and mentally as I am.  I've graduated college and
> have been on my own since 2003. I am very independent.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>> Yeah, I would like to try dating a VI Girl, just to see what it would
>> be like, But unfornchely their is no one hear in flint.
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Me neither.  But I am just warning Jeff to be careful.  Back then when I
>>> went on dates I enjoyed myself very much. But I noticed during the High
>>> School years most girls weren't as accepting of me and I had more luck
>>> with
>>> dating during college than high school.  But again during the few times I
>>> dated as a teen I had fun.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ignasi Cambra" <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:43 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>>>I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was fun!!!
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
>>>> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I did
>>>>> this
>>>>> and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time you
>>>>> enter
>>>>>
>>>>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness
>>>>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get caught up
>>>>> in something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly
>>>>> figuring out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck in
>>>>> your studies and don't worry as you get older your chance to date will
>>>>> be
>>>>>
>>>>> hear before you know it.
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would like
>>>>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening is
>>>>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
>>>>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it would be
>>>>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
>>>>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>>>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> this is my point of view
>>>>>>
>>>>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world, but
>>>>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>>>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not seen
>>>>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>>>>
>>>>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>>>>
>>>>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you can
>>>>>> email me at
>>>>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> with love and respect
>>>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa. I'm
>>>>>>> sooo
>>>>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
>>>>>>> happiness.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hugs,
>>>>>>> amy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> we are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>>>>>> still working.
>>>>>>> Beth
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>>>>> blind people
>>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>>>>> person.
>>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
>>>>>>> As a
>>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>>>>> some of
>>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>>>>> met
>>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>>>>> sites. I
>>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>>>>> share in
>>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>>>>> was on
>>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>>>>> blindness was
>>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>>>>> profile up
>>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>>>>> sites.
>>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>>>>> hence
>>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>>>>> profiles,
>>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>>>>> at some
>>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>>>>> happen at
>>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>>>>> get to
>>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>>>>> have done
>>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>>>>> blind. I
>>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>>>>> relationship I
>>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>>>>> blindness
>>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>>>>> interests and
>>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>>>>> passions
>>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>>>>> division,
>>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>>>>> simply for
>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>>>>> general
>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>>>>> necessarily
>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>>>>> you meet
>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>>>>> as they
>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>>>>> when they
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>>> forward to
>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>>> like a
>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>>>>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
>>>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>>>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> 73
>>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 73
>> kd8qiq
>> jeff crouch
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From kayla.mattox at cox.net  Mon Mar 26 01:53:05 2012
From: kayla.mattox at cox.net (Kayla Paige)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:53:05 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
Message-ID: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>

Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a career in assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage therapy, my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 26 01:55:41 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:55:41 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <560574119184395253@unknownmsgid>
References: <4f6be3ef.e938b60a.3825.4c95@mx.google.com>
	<560574119184395253@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <4FB60EA0EA5A4866B89F85394563173B@OwnerPC>

IC,
Yes some people do out of beliefs. IMO this isn't the place to debate 
whether to get a dog or not and if they are pure.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ignasi Cambra
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 12:22 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

Would you give up on all the benefits of having a guide dog just
because at some point a long time ago someone decided that dogs arr
not pure...?

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 22, 2012, at 10:47 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:

> For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want or any 
> Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
> Beth
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they are
> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one 
> for
> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs can
> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However, there 
> is
> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't like 
> it
> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>
> Nicole
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hello All,
> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
> story.
> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
> blind however, all bets are off.
> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
> mere visual acuity.
> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
> creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
> them all.
> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
> Sincerely,
> Mary
>
> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind people
> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
> Take care,
> Doug
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hello all,
> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>
>
> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
> and seeing what happens.
> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
> are better catches.
> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
> know you before they learn about your blindness.
> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
> way to build lasting connections.
> Arielle
>
> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>
> Later.
>
> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Robin,
>
> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
> (whether online or not).
>
> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
> dating search.
>
> Nimer J
>
> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you meet
> them, they're a criminal.
> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would
> be
> very
> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
> they
> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find
> that
> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
> that
> is
> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
> daily
> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
> there
> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
> they
> are
> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
> person
> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hello to everyone,
> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
> dating
> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
> had
> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
> hearing your stories.
>
>
> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
> Perhaps
> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
> breeze
>
> among flowers.
> Hellen Keller
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
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> %40gmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
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> _______________________________________________
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> 0gmail.com
>
>
>
> --
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory 2012
> "Do I dare
> Disturb the universe?
> In a minute there is time
> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
> --
> T.S. Eliot
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon Mar 26 01:56:45 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:56:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.lwsb.org
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a career in
> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage therapy,
> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Mon Mar 26 02:18:59 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:18:59 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>
	<737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>
	<00e201cd0a0a$f3b21f20$db165d60$@comcast.net>
	<CA+N-3k1HhysTv+09-MPjnmuXwHjukM4cLwHt8b0KR9RRTh63Jg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000a01cd0a78$922676c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>	<-4225011247113051920@unknownmsgid>
	<000301cd0acc$fa63c0e0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CA+N-3k3QFfAMV0GYUVzmrpWHrb2FGiu-CBjzcO3eRvpTRpUfQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000301cd0ae2$d9c0a4a0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAC7+D=xVFNfBgj4+uWNPP=QNrNVmCs8M_8PHkWt2wTDwKyrU7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001301cd0af6$ce23fcf0$1400ba43@BRIAN>

Dez,

I've never been in contact with blind women in my age bracket  who have 
succeeded in life like I have.  I myself have standards just like yours and 
use these on sighted people as well as blind people.  If I had an actual NFB 
chapter full of blind people like my self in my area It would be much easier 
for me to network and make blind friends.  My parents had beliefs similar to 
your parents because I never grew up around the NFB.  In fact I've just 
recently discovered this organization in the past few years.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 8:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


> That's a pretty big generalization. I understand that our life
> experiences shape our views, and more importantly, our prejudices, but
> that doesn't mean that all blind women are what you're saying they
> are. In fact, I've met just as many blind young men who are what you
> describe. Also, you don't know the circumstances of every blind person
> who's still living at home. Of course, if you're talking about former
> dating partners, I would assume you did, but I would encourage you to
> have a little compassion and sensitivity to whatever emotional issues
> they might be facing that cause them to have no desire to leave home.
> Are they afraid of failure? Have their parents belittled, degraded, or
> even abused them due to their blindness?
> I understand that there are blind people, women and men, old and
> young, who have a chip on their shoulder and an entitlement complex a
> mile long. But you know what? You can choose not to associate with
> those people. Discouraging a kid from dating blind people is quite
> another thing though.
> My mom once told me when I was in high school and complaining about a
> relationship that didn't work out, "blind people are screwed up in the
> head. You shouldn't be dating them." By saying that, no matter how
> well-intentioned her response was, she was putting me in the same
> category. Can you imagine how I felt? To top it all off, in high
> school, relationships don't last forever, so that made it doubly
> hurtful.
> To summarize, I have no problem dating a blind or sighted person. I've
> dated both, and have had good and bad experiences with both. I also
> don't shy away from being supportive of people who might not be as
> strong as you and I are. Growing up, I never had much support from
> anyone. I've made a promise to myself that I won't repeat that pattern
> in my adulthood. Now, if a person is clearly trying to mooch off the
> system, throws a pity party constantly, refuses to practice good
> hygiene, and is grossly overweight due to perpetual inactivity, of
> course I won't date them. But those are my standards, and aren't
> limited to blindness. I wouldn't date a sighted person with those
> traits either.
>
> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> In my experiences with visually handicapped women most of them I've
>> encountered that are at my age level are uneducated and still living 
>> under
>> their parents roof.  My rule is that any woman I date should be on the 
>> same
>> level both chronologically and mentally as I am.  I've graduated college 
>> and
>> have been on my own since 2003. I am very independent.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>> Yeah, I would like to try dating a VI Girl, just to see what it would
>>> be like, But unfornchely their is no one hear in flint.
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> Me neither.  But I am just warning Jeff to be careful.  Back then when 
>>>> I
>>>> went on dates I enjoyed myself very much. But I noticed during the High
>>>> School years most girls weren't as accepting of me and I had more luck
>>>> with
>>>> dating during college than high school.  But again during the few times 
>>>> I
>>>> dated as a teen I had fun.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ignasi Cambra" <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:43 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was 
>>>>>fun!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I did
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time you
>>>>>> enter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness
>>>>>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get caught 
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> in something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly
>>>>>> figuring out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck in
>>>>>> your studies and don't worry as you get older your chance to date 
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hear before you know it.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would 
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening is
>>>>>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
>>>>>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it would 
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
>>>>>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>>>>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this is my point of view
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world, but
>>>>>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>>>>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not 
>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you 
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> email me at
>>>>>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> with love and respect
>>>>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa. 
>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>> sooo
>>>>>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
>>>>>>>> happiness.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hugs,
>>>>>>>> amy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> we are.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>>>>>>> still working.
>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>>>>>> blind people
>>>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>>>>>> person.
>>>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
>>>>>>>> As a
>>>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>>>>>> some of
>>>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>>>>>> met
>>>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>>>>>> sites. I
>>>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>>>>>> share in
>>>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>>>>>> was on
>>>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>>>>>> blindness was
>>>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>>>>>> profile up
>>>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>>>>>> sites.
>>>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>>>>>> hence
>>>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>>>>>> profiles,
>>>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>>>>>> at some
>>>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>>>>>> happen at
>>>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>>>>>> get to
>>>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>>>>>> have done
>>>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>>>>>> blind. I
>>>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>>>>>> relationship I
>>>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>>>>>> blindness
>>>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>>>>>> interests and
>>>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>>>>>> passions
>>>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>>>>>> division,
>>>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>>>>>> simply for
>>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>>>>>> general
>>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>>>>>> necessarily
>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>>>>>> you meet
>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>>>>>> as they
>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>>>>>> when they
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>>>> forward to
>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>>>> like a
>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>>>>>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>>>>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 73
>>> kd8qiq
>>> jeff crouch
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
> 




From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 02:21:48 2012
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:21:48 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>

Joshua,

LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
employment.

Thanks.

On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> http://www.lwsb.org
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a career in
>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage therapy,
>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.


From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Mon Mar 26 02:23:54 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:23:54 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>
	<737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>
	<00e201cd0a0a$f3b21f20$db165d60$@comcast.net>
	<CA+N-3k1HhysTv+09-MPjnmuXwHjukM4cLwHt8b0KR9RRTh63Jg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000a01cd0a78$922676c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>	<-4225011247113051920@unknownmsgid>
	<000301cd0acc$fa63c0e0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CA+N-3k3QFfAMV0GYUVzmrpWHrb2FGiu-CBjzcO3eRvpTRpUfQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000301cd0ae2$d9c0a4a0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAO83KOs0=pXg4j3jUNddZV_b83BvREs3vOPLRQFBWuPEGiQq0w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002501cd0af7$7dd58ec0$1400ba43@BRIAN>

Josh,

I do part time at a commercial station already!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


> Hi, Brian.
> I know plenty of blind women, who are endependent!
> Didn't you say in a previous post, that you were an aspiring DJ?
> Why not try to apply to work for this station?
> http://www.wics.cc
> The owner of this station, is an endependent blind woman!
> Please try to show more compassion!
> Thanks, Desiree, for the great post!
> I'm in agreement with you!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> In my experiences with visually handicapped women most of them I've
>> encountered that are at my age level are uneducated and still living 
>> under
>> their parents roof.  My rule is that any woman I date should be on the 
>> same
>> level both chronologically and mentally as I am.  I've graduated college 
>> and
>> have been on my own since 2003. I am very independent.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>> Yeah, I would like to try dating a VI Girl, just to see what it would
>>> be like, But unfornchely their is no one hear in flint.
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> Me neither.  But I am just warning Jeff to be careful.  Back then when 
>>>> I
>>>> went on dates I enjoyed myself very much. But I noticed during the High
>>>> School years most girls weren't as accepting of me and I had more luck
>>>> with
>>>> dating during college than high school.  But again during the few times 
>>>> I
>>>> dated as a teen I had fun.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ignasi Cambra" <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:43 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was 
>>>>>fun!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I did
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time you
>>>>>> enter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness
>>>>>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get caught 
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> in something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly
>>>>>> figuring out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck in
>>>>>> your studies and don't worry as you get older your chance to date 
>>>>>> will
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hear before you know it.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would 
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening is
>>>>>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
>>>>>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it would 
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
>>>>>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>>>>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this is my point of view
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world, but
>>>>>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>>>>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not 
>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you 
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> email me at
>>>>>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> with love and respect
>>>>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa. 
>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>> sooo
>>>>>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
>>>>>>>> happiness.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hugs,
>>>>>>>> amy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> we are.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>>>>>>> still working.
>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>>>>>> blind people
>>>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>>>>>> person.
>>>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
>>>>>>>> As a
>>>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>>>>>> some of
>>>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>>>>>> met
>>>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>>>>>> sites. I
>>>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>>>>>> share in
>>>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>>>>>> was on
>>>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>>>>>> blindness was
>>>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>>>>>> profile up
>>>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>>>>>> sites.
>>>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>>>>>> hence
>>>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>>>>>> profiles,
>>>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>>>>>> at some
>>>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>>>>>> happen at
>>>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>>>>>> get to
>>>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>>>>>> have done
>>>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>>>>>> blind. I
>>>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>>>>>> relationship I
>>>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>>>>>> blindness
>>>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>>>>>> interests and
>>>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>>>>>> passions
>>>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>>>>>> division,
>>>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>>>>>> simply for
>>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>>>>>> general
>>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>>>>>> necessarily
>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>>>>>> you meet
>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>>>>>> as they
>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>>>>>> when they
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>>>> forward to
>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>>>> like a
>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>>>>>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 73
>>> kd8qiq
>>> jeff crouch
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 02:27:53 2012
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:27:53 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <001301cd0af6$ce23fcf0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
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	<CA+N-3k3QFfAMV0GYUVzmrpWHrb2FGiu-CBjzcO3eRvpTRpUfQQ@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <CAF2O2Cw0z1yrA7bi0-NGn6o7vQmhdRV+jaby-3b+H2c95bsrmA@mail.gmail.com>

Love your message Desiree, and I agree that generalizations aren't a
good thing. I have met very few blinde men or women that would measure
up to my physical and cognitive perceived abilities, but that doesn't
mean they don't exist. On the other hand, I haven't met very many
blind people in general, and many of the ones I have met also have
some underlying condition or disability. It's important that if we do
have standards, we ought to apply those same standards to everyone,
whether sighted or blind. Unless of course one of your standards is
that you're going to stick with dating a sighted person ...

Later.

On 25.03.2012, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> Dez,
>
> I've never been in contact with blind women in my age bracket  who have
> succeeded in life like I have.  I myself have standards just like yours and
> use these on sighted people as well as blind people.  If I had an actual NFB
> chapter full of blind people like my self in my area It would be much easier
> for me to network and make blind friends.  My parents had beliefs similar to
> your parents because I never grew up around the NFB.  In fact I've just
> recently discovered this organization in the past few years.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 8:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>> That's a pretty big generalization. I understand that our life
>> experiences shape our views, and more importantly, our prejudices, but
>> that doesn't mean that all blind women are what you're saying they
>> are. In fact, I've met just as many blind young men who are what you
>> describe. Also, you don't know the circumstances of every blind person
>> who's still living at home. Of course, if you're talking about former
>> dating partners, I would assume you did, but I would encourage you to
>> have a little compassion and sensitivity to whatever emotional issues
>> they might be facing that cause them to have no desire to leave home.
>> Are they afraid of failure? Have their parents belittled, degraded, or
>> even abused them due to their blindness?
>> I understand that there are blind people, women and men, old and
>> young, who have a chip on their shoulder and an entitlement complex a
>> mile long. But you know what? You can choose not to associate with
>> those people. Discouraging a kid from dating blind people is quite
>> another thing though.
>> My mom once told me when I was in high school and complaining about a
>> relationship that didn't work out, "blind people are screwed up in the
>> head. You shouldn't be dating them." By saying that, no matter how
>> well-intentioned her response was, she was putting me in the same
>> category. Can you imagine how I felt? To top it all off, in high
>> school, relationships don't last forever, so that made it doubly
>> hurtful.
>> To summarize, I have no problem dating a blind or sighted person. I've
>> dated both, and have had good and bad experiences with both. I also
>> don't shy away from being supportive of people who might not be as
>> strong as you and I are. Growing up, I never had much support from
>> anyone. I've made a promise to myself that I won't repeat that pattern
>> in my adulthood. Now, if a person is clearly trying to mooch off the
>> system, throws a pity party constantly, refuses to practice good
>> hygiene, and is grossly overweight due to perpetual inactivity, of
>> course I won't date them. But those are my standards, and aren't
>> limited to blindness. I wouldn't date a sighted person with those
>> traits either.
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> In my experiences with visually handicapped women most of them I've
>>> encountered that are at my age level are uneducated and still living
>>> under
>>> their parents roof.  My rule is that any woman I date should be on the
>>> same
>>> level both chronologically and mentally as I am.  I've graduated college
>>> and
>>> have been on my own since 2003. I am very independent.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:24 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yeah, I would like to try dating a VI Girl, just to see what it would
>>>> be like, But unfornchely their is no one hear in flint.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>> Me neither.  But I am just warning Jeff to be careful.  Back then when
>>>>> I
>>>>> went on dates I enjoyed myself very much. But I noticed during the High
>>>>> School years most girls weren't as accepting of me and I had more luck
>>>>> with
>>>>> dating during college than high school.  But again during the few times
>>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>> dated as a teen I had fun.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Ignasi Cambra" <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:43 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was
>>>>>>fun!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>>> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I did
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time you
>>>>>>> enter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness
>>>>>>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get caught
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>> in something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly
>>>>>>> figuring out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck in
>>>>>>> your studies and don't worry as you get older your chance to date
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hear before you know it.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening is
>>>>>>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
>>>>>>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it would
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
>>>>>>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>>>>>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> this is my point of view
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world, but
>>>>>>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>>>>>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not
>>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> email me at
>>>>>>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with love and respect
>>>>>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa.
>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>> sooo
>>>>>>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
>>>>>>>>> happiness.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hugs,
>>>>>>>>> amy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> we are.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>>>>>>>> still working.
>>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>>>>>>> blind people
>>>>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>>>>>>> person.
>>>>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
>>>>>>>>> As a
>>>>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>>>>>>> some of
>>>>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>>>>>>> met
>>>>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>>>>>>> sites. I
>>>>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>>>>>>> share in
>>>>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>>>>>>> was on
>>>>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>>>>>>> blindness was
>>>>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>>>>>>> profile up
>>>>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>>>>>>> sites.
>>>>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>>>>>>> hence
>>>>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>>>>>>> profiles,
>>>>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>>>>>>> at some
>>>>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>>>>>>> happen at
>>>>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>>>>>>> get to
>>>>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>>>>>>> have done
>>>>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>>>>>>> blind. I
>>>>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>>>>>>> relationship I
>>>>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>>>>>>> blindness
>>>>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>>>>>>> interests and
>>>>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>>>>>>> passions
>>>>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>>>>>>> division,
>>>>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>>>>>>> simply for
>>>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>>>>>>> general
>>>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>>>>>>> necessarily
>>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>>>>>>> you meet
>>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>>>>>>> as they
>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>>>>>>> when they
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>>>>> forward to
>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>>>>> like a
>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
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>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>>>>>>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> 73
>>>> kd8qiq
>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon Mar 26 02:29:03 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:29:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>

I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
What a mistake!
I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
I had.
We called her Ms Z.
Anyone remember her?
Blessings,Joshua

On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Joshua,
>
> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
> employment.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> http://www.lwsb.org
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a career
>>> in
>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>> therapy,
>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From turtlepower17 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 02:39:48 2012
From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:39:48 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.

On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
> What a mistake!
> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
> I had.
> We called her Ms Z.
> Anyone remember her?
> Blessings,Joshua
>
> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Joshua,
>>
>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>> employment.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a career
>>>> in
>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>> therapy,
>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 26 02:47:04 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:47:04 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
Message-ID: <9CA8F2FC1B9B4158ADBEE03337750113@OwnerPC>

Kayla,
It depends. Do you want to teach assistive tech, write scripts or what?
In general, if you want to teach it, most employers just require a college 
education with some demonstrated knowledge such as passing some computer 
test or questionaire.
If you want to teach in a school system or contract with one, you will 
likely need a special ed degree or license.
Also, some rehab teaching programs have a assistive tech emphasis in their 
universities.
Rehab teaching is where teachers teach daily living skills to blind and 
visually impaired people.

Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Kayla Paige
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:53 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology

Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a career in 
assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage therapy, 
my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon Mar 26 02:47:12 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:47:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOsp3Owak2XZubfek0C6W5m2jB2UveN5dS6NcdTdzvx8zw@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know about that, because the IRS hires people from there, all the time.
I didn't know about sanetation problems, but I'll E-mail you
privately, with my experience, since I attended there.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/25/12, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>
> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>> What a mistake!
>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>> I had.
>> We called her Ms Z.
>> Anyone remember her?
>> Blessings,Joshua
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Joshua,
>>>
>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>> employment.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a career
>>>>> in
>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>> therapy,
>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 26 02:49:37 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:49:37 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC><CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com><CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <60D34CF5BCF042828765C7D8BE212E3D@OwnerPC>

Hi,
Good points Desiree. Okay not a school in the academic sense.
But they do have an assistive tech program and you get a certificate in it.
I'm sure its somewhat useful as it still exists.
Since people have gone and found jobs afterward, I'd say its worth 
something. Yes, I've heard iffy things about LWSB, but I think Kayla should 
make
her own decision.


-----Original Message----- 
From: Desiree Oudinot
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:39 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology

Hi,
So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.

On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
> What a mistake!
> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
> I had.
> We called her Ms Z.
> Anyone remember her?
> Blessings,Joshua
>
> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Joshua,
>>
>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>> employment.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a career
>>>> in
>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>> therapy,
>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 02:51:13 2012
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:51:13 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>

Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light House.

Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
decent job.

Thanks.

On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>
> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>> What a mistake!
>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>> I had.
>> We called her Ms Z.
>> Anyone remember her?
>> Blessings,Joshua
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Joshua,
>>>
>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>> employment.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a career
>>>>> in
>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>> therapy,
>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.


From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 02:54:31 2012
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:54:31 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF2O2CxuVvjrN6bqTYiB8FxEkWB=6q2RfF1eWjURmBimukQ_gw@mail.gmail.com>

Joshua,

The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB. You can go to
any other IRS class and get the same offered position. WSB just
happens to be the location of an IRS training sight. The employees
that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the computer
network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes and WSB
two separate entities in my mind. Even if you wish to count the IRS
classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs that
will not provide employment once a program has been terminated and a
client has graduated successfully.

Thanks.

On 25.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light House.
>
> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
> decent job.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>> What a mistake!
>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>>> I had.
>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>> Anyone remember her?
>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Joshua,
>>>>
>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>> employment.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>> career
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>


-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon Mar 26 02:58:28 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:58:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOv88xxWNX0b8WOwgbOkm+eJeY+Q2G5m0BA2T3O6yp5fOg@mail.gmail.com>

The only good thing I have to say about LWSB, is they have Braille
labels on the vending machines!
I'm proud of them, there!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light House.
>
> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
> decent job.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>> What a mistake!
>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>>> I had.
>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>> Anyone remember her?
>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Joshua,
>>>>
>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>> employment.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>> career
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 26 03:05:06 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:05:06 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC><CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com><CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com><CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CCF0175A474D409387558D4E79ABC7F3@OwnerPC>

Hi,
What is the jaws certification? Why do you say its not worth a lot?
I believe there are some certifications for teaching assistive tech out 
there.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Nimer M. Jaber, IC³
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:51 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology

Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light House.

Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
decent job.

Thanks.

On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>
> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>> What a mistake!
>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>> I had.
>> We called her Ms Z.
>> Anyone remember her?
>> Blessings,Joshua
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Joshua,
>>>
>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>> employment.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a 
>>>>> career
>>>>> in
>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>> therapy,
>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon Mar 26 03:10:40 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:10:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <CCF0175A474D409387558D4E79ABC7F3@OwnerPC>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CCF0175A474D409387558D4E79ABC7F3@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOve08HWyM2Ln-eDWKy8U5ERiyfYX_6D8LQEXFF9LqTcYA@mail.gmail.com>

My idea, is that Jaws will always be outdated, due to the rise of NVDA.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/25/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> What is the jaws certification? Why do you say its not worth a lot?
> I believe there are some certifications for teaching assistive tech out
> there.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nimer M. Jaber, IC³
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:51 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light House.
>
> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
> decent job.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>> What a mistake!
>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>>> I had.
>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>> Anyone remember her?
>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Joshua,
>>>>
>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>> employment.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>> career
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>
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>>
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>> nabs-l:
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>>
>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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From jeffanel at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 03:20:28 2012
From: jeffanel at gmail.com (jeff crouch)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:20:28 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <CAF2O2Cw0z1yrA7bi0-NGn6o7vQmhdRV+jaby-3b+H2c95bsrmA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>
	<737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>
	<00e201cd0a0a$f3b21f20$db165d60$@comcast.net>
	<CA+N-3k1HhysTv+09-MPjnmuXwHjukM4cLwHt8b0KR9RRTh63Jg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000a01cd0a78$922676c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<-4225011247113051920@unknownmsgid>
	<000301cd0acc$fa63c0e0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CA+N-3k3QFfAMV0GYUVzmrpWHrb2FGiu-CBjzcO3eRvpTRpUfQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000301cd0ae2$d9c0a4a0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAC7+D=xVFNfBgj4+uWNPP=QNrNVmCs8M_8PHkWt2wTDwKyrU7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<001301cd0af6$ce23fcf0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAF2O2Cw0z1yrA7bi0-NGn6o7vQmhdRV+jaby-3b+H2c95bsrmA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+N-3k0-mCnFQFiTE8S+PUT0hRdC8_KJ3TMyoT1wkQaVRHphjw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all, jeff again

See it all comes down to a point of who you have been around, I have
been around 3 other blind people besides the chapter metting in
detroit MI which i don't get to go all that much anymore, I  am in
flint, and well that's a lot of gas money.

But anyway, If a sited person in my kase, just takes one look at me
and does the stairow type, and I hate that more than anything. I do
beleave that a boy or girl, man or woman should becompletely okay with
each other's different things and if their truly in love with each
other, then nothing will be a problem.

sorry if this does not make sence, or fits in with the rest of the
stuff, it is very late hear, and I am about to fall over.

have a good night to all

Jeff Crouch

On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Love your message Desiree, and I agree that generalizations aren't a
> good thing. I have met very few blinde men or women that would measure
> up to my physical and cognitive perceived abilities, but that doesn't
> mean they don't exist. On the other hand, I haven't met very many
> blind people in general, and many of the ones I have met also have
> some underlying condition or disability. It's important that if we do
> have standards, we ought to apply those same standards to everyone,
> whether sighted or blind. Unless of course one of your standards is
> that you're going to stick with dating a sighted person ...
>
> Later.
>
> On 25.03.2012, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Dez,
>>
>> I've never been in contact with blind women in my age bracket  who have
>> succeeded in life like I have.  I myself have standards just like yours
>> and
>> use these on sighted people as well as blind people.  If I had an actual
>> NFB
>> chapter full of blind people like my self in my area It would be much
>> easier
>> for me to network and make blind friends.  My parents had beliefs similar
>> to
>> your parents because I never grew up around the NFB.  In fact I've just
>> recently discovered this organization in the past few years.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 8:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>> That's a pretty big generalization. I understand that our life
>>> experiences shape our views, and more importantly, our prejudices, but
>>> that doesn't mean that all blind women are what you're saying they
>>> are. In fact, I've met just as many blind young men who are what you
>>> describe. Also, you don't know the circumstances of every blind person
>>> who's still living at home. Of course, if you're talking about former
>>> dating partners, I would assume you did, but I would encourage you to
>>> have a little compassion and sensitivity to whatever emotional issues
>>> they might be facing that cause them to have no desire to leave home.
>>> Are they afraid of failure? Have their parents belittled, degraded, or
>>> even abused them due to their blindness?
>>> I understand that there are blind people, women and men, old and
>>> young, who have a chip on their shoulder and an entitlement complex a
>>> mile long. But you know what? You can choose not to associate with
>>> those people. Discouraging a kid from dating blind people is quite
>>> another thing though.
>>> My mom once told me when I was in high school and complaining about a
>>> relationship that didn't work out, "blind people are screwed up in the
>>> head. You shouldn't be dating them." By saying that, no matter how
>>> well-intentioned her response was, she was putting me in the same
>>> category. Can you imagine how I felt? To top it all off, in high
>>> school, relationships don't last forever, so that made it doubly
>>> hurtful.
>>> To summarize, I have no problem dating a blind or sighted person. I've
>>> dated both, and have had good and bad experiences with both. I also
>>> don't shy away from being supportive of people who might not be as
>>> strong as you and I are. Growing up, I never had much support from
>>> anyone. I've made a promise to myself that I won't repeat that pattern
>>> in my adulthood. Now, if a person is clearly trying to mooch off the
>>> system, throws a pity party constantly, refuses to practice good
>>> hygiene, and is grossly overweight due to perpetual inactivity, of
>>> course I won't date them. But those are my standards, and aren't
>>> limited to blindness. I wouldn't date a sighted person with those
>>> traits either.
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> In my experiences with visually handicapped women most of them I've
>>>> encountered that are at my age level are uneducated and still living
>>>> under
>>>> their parents roof.  My rule is that any woman I date should be on the
>>>> same
>>>> level both chronologically and mentally as I am.  I've graduated college
>>>> and
>>>> have been on my own since 2003. I am very independent.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:24 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, I would like to try dating a VI Girl, just to see what it would
>>>>> be like, But unfornchely their is no one hear in flint.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Me neither.  But I am just warning Jeff to be careful.  Back then when
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> went on dates I enjoyed myself very much. But I noticed during the
>>>>>> High
>>>>>> School years most girls weren't as accepting of me and I had more luck
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> dating during college than high school.  But again during the few
>>>>>> times
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> dated as a teen I had fun.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Ignasi Cambra" <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was
>>>>>>>fun!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>>>> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I did
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time you
>>>>>>>> enter
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness
>>>>>>>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get caught
>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>> in something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly
>>>>>>>> figuring out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> your studies and don't worry as you get older your chance to date
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> hear before you know it.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch"
>>>>>>>> <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening is
>>>>>>>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
>>>>>>>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it would
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
>>>>>>>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>>>>>>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> this is my point of view
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world,
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>>>>>>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not
>>>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> email me at
>>>>>>>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> with love and respect
>>>>>>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa.
>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>> sooo
>>>>>>>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
>>>>>>>>>> happiness.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hugs,
>>>>>>>>>> amy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> we are.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>>>>>>>>> still working.
>>>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>>>>>>>> blind people
>>>>>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>>>>>>>> person.
>>>>>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
>>>>>>>>>> As a
>>>>>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>>>>>>>> some of
>>>>>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>>>>>>>> met
>>>>>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>>>>>>>> sites. I
>>>>>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>>>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>>>>>>>> share in
>>>>>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>>>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>>>>>>>> was on
>>>>>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>>>>>>>> blindness was
>>>>>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>>>>>>>> profile up
>>>>>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>>>>>>>> sites.
>>>>>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>>>>>>>> hence
>>>>>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>>>>>>>> profiles,
>>>>>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>>>>>>>> at some
>>>>>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>>>>>>>> happen at
>>>>>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>>>>>>>> get to
>>>>>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>>>>>>>> have done
>>>>>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>>>>>>>> blind. I
>>>>>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>>>>>>>> relationship I
>>>>>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>>>>>>>> blindness
>>>>>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>>>>>>>> interests and
>>>>>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>>>>>>>> passions
>>>>>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>>>>>>>> division,
>>>>>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>>>>>>>> simply for
>>>>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>>>>>>>> general
>>>>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>>>>>>>> necessarily
>>>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>>>>>>>> you meet
>>>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>>>>>>>> as they
>>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>>>>>>>> when they
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>>>>>> forward to
>>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>>>>>> like a
>>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>>>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>>>>>>>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>>>>>>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> 73
>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>


-- 
73
kd8qiq
jeff crouch


From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 05:13:47 2012
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:13:47 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
Message-ID: <4f6ffb37.a7203c0a.7bf5.ffffb2a5@mx.google.com>

Chris,
You didn't exactly cross the line.  I appreciate the defense of 
Islam even if you haven't been one yourself.  Someone like Deq 
doesn't like dogs, won't mess with dogs, won't even get a guide 
dog.  Here's an example of why dogs are whatever they are in 
Islam: I had a Somali friend come with me to take me home from 
the mosque one fine Friday.  Then, the upstairs neighbor's pet 
Shi Tzu came over because apparently, I had accidentally called 
out to her.  My friend drew back, going, "Oh no, a dog."  I had 
to reassure my friend that the dog was no harm, and she probably 
is a good guard dog at that.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:34:45 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

Yes, because that's her religion and that's what she believes in.
She freely chose to convert to Islam, and that's incidentally
what they believe.  Beth, if I'm stepping over the line in trying
to defend you, please let me know! :)

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Ignasi Cambra <ignasicambra at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 23 Mar 2012 00:22:35 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

Would you give up on all the benefits of having a guide dog just
because at some point a long time ago someone decided that dogs
arr
not pure...?

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 22, 2012, at 10:47 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
wrote:

 For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want
or any Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
 Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

 I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that
they are
 not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you
want one for
 this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide
dogs can
 sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.
However, there is
 of course a flip side to that.  Some people who have guide dogs
don't like it
 when people talk to them because of their dogs. .

 Nicole

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello All,
 This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons.
First,
 dating is hard as a blind person.  But dating can also be hard
for
 someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average
height,
 someone who has trouble hearing, etc.  In short, dating can be
hard for
 anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall
squarely in
 the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.
Even
 geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a
true
 story.
 I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend
of
 mine a few days ago.  And one of the things we both agreed upon,
is
 that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that
most
 people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual
being,
 who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable.  Which,
like
 Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and
other
 hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone
and go
 on a date.  We have to carry a heavier burden by making
ourselves even
 more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with
our
 self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like
this:
 Man and woman sit at bar.  Man and woman makes eye-contact.
 If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
 though not always, make a comment which will spark off
conversation.
 If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation
she will
 angle herself toward the man.  If conversation continues to be
 stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection,
casual
 touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
 Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective.  Man or woman
walk
 into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted
requests
 to be helped, man or woman find barstool.  After being observed
to
 enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about
blindness
 will have been activated.  And our shot of having this normal
courting
 sequence is nipped at the bud.  Of course, a person who wasn't
there
 before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
 instantly drawn in.  Which is why, I like to arrive early at
parties
 and spark up a conversation with new comers.  When they find out
your
 blind however, all bets are off.
 This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not
have a
 dating experience.  On the contrary, I have been fairly
successful in
 dating along with many other blind women and men I know.  Like
Arielle
 and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should
be
 irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and
consider as a
 potential romantic partner.  there are so many other things that
come
 into play.  What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
 intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
 parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal
ideas
 they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but
decide to
 stay with them because it's more comfortable.  Relationships are
so
 incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from
each
 other.  But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
 thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the
person
 despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship
than
 mere visual acuity.
 So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
 explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something
your
 into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally
something
 I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all
means.  Be
 creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the
local
 bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house
parties.  But
 most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for
a
 sighted date or a blind date for validation.  Because that never
ends
 well.  The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
 completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full
happy and
 fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by
the
 sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not.  But,
you do
 learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more
thing
 we have to do using alternative skills.  I know, from the
experience of
 friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people,
because
 it makes them feel useful.  It validates their self-worth, since
they
 have someone they can help all the time.  And I know blind
people who
 think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
 experience.  I've done both, and speaking from a woman's
perspective.
 All men have issues.  But you can find some truly golden ones
among
 them all.
 A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual
reference
 to fashion and looking good.  Dress to bring out the best
features of
 yourself.  Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college
chic,
 when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.
Because I
 have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend.  Look nice, get
some
 delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
 Sincerely,
 Mary

 On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 I'm gonna way in on this topic.
 My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
blind people
 growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
person.
 We've met in person twice and it's been great.
 Take care,
 Doug

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello all,
 Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
own
 experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people
online.  As a
 matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online,
and he
 is blind as well.  We have been dating a little over a year now,
and I
 have also had the chance to meet him in person.  I can say that
some of
 what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
and
 bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more
disastrous
 because of his family who are sighted.  Well the first time we
actually
 got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
were
 present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of
us
 being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
could
 meet.  About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and
that was
 a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part
of
 another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers.  I
 actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
was
 hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
person
 besides him, and he is not as independent as I am.  I have also
met
 sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
sites.  I
 met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
opinion,
 that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
things
 in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
most
 people have said already, one of the main things to consider
when
 dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
share in
 common with the other person.  I personally have never dated a
sighted
 person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
 sighted.  Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because
I
 haven't wanted to tell them.  I don't meet these people in
person
 mainly because most of them are not from the U.S.  and therefore
it
 really hasn't come up.  Besides, I'm not as close to them, and
we
 mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with
most of
 these people I meet anyway.  I have also met blind friends
online, and
 basically the same goes for them.  So as most people have
already said,
 I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
from a
 blind person.  A blind person might be a little more
understanding
 considering they go through some of the same things.  But on the
other
 side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
completely
 adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
their
 entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
such
 as in my case.  So I think dating both blind and sighted people
can
 have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
to
 handle each situation as it comes.  Good luck.


 On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi all,
 I have a little experience with online dating, but not much.  I
was on
 a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
didn't
 find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person.  I have a lot
of
 friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
the
 whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
first
 dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
blindness was
 revealed online.  It really doesn't hurt to try it.  If you do
find
 someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
public
 place.  But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
profile up
 and seeing what happens.
 Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
 Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
my
 sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
sites.
 I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
and
 said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
attractive
 and appealing than the guys on the paid one.  So it's possible
the
 people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
hence
 are better catches.
 I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
during
 an online dating encounter.  Some people put it in their
profiles,
 others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
at some
 point in the middle.  I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
and
 reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
before
 we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
when
 they see me.  Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
happen at
 any point in the process.  You'll have to decide whether you
would
 prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
get to
 know you before they learn about your blindness.
 Regarding dating blind vs.  sighted people: Like many of us I
have done
 both.  I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
person
 or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
thinking.
 I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
the
 same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
blind.  I
 will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
was
 easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
what
 nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
my
 nonverbal signals.  However, when I try to compare the
relationship I
 have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
with the
 other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
think
 of any major differences.  I do think that regardless of
blindness
 status, it's important for you and your partner to share
interests and
 passions in common.  NFB and blindness are passions that many of
us
 share, and they help bring many blind couples together.
However, there
 are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
 around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
passions
 with you can be similarly rewarding.  In other words, instead of
 deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
I
 think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
 common with them.  I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
to
 meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
singles'
 parties.  But if you can find communities of people that share
your
 interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
division,
 classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
better
 way to build lasting connections.
 Arielle

 On 3/22/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
simply for
 the dating scene.  I'm sure relationships do develop at things
like
 that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
general
 sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
etc
 to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.

 Later.

 On 22.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
wrote:
 Hello Robin,

 Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
learn
 from it.  It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
others.
 As for the sighted vs.  blind thing, I would ask what you want.
Not
 dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
and
 more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
options,
 just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
being
 rejected is crazy as well.  We're all individuals.  Many blind
people
 have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
 blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to
necessarily
 feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
etc
 etc.  Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
questions.
 Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
 educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
willing
 to learn and it could work out.  As for good dating sites ...
why not
 just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
 status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
that
 are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
 (whether online or not).

 Anyway, talk to you later and peace.  May you have much luck
with your
 dating search.

 Nimer J

 On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
wrote:
 Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
that
 pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
you meet
 them, they're a criminal.
 Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
 Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
yes,
 there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
would
 be
 very
 careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
as
 they
 appear to be over emails.  I have dated very few blind people
and find
 that
 there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
feel
 that
 is
 a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
a
 daily
 basis and want to know we are more than our blindness.  I have
found
 there
 are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially
when
 they
 are
 confident and out going.  I have been in a relationship with a
sited
 person
 for 3 years and things are wonderful.
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
 To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
 Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello to everyone,
 I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
 dating
 and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
you
 had
 with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
forward to
 hearing your stories.


 I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
 Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
like a
 breeze

 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


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 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
or
 criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
corresponding
 attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
machine is
 up to you.  Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.



 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
or
 criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
corresponding
 attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
machine is
 up to you.  Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

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 --
 Mary Fernandez
 Emory 2012
 "Do I dare
 Disturb the universe?
 In a minute there is time
 For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
 --
 T.S.  Eliot

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From turtlepower17 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 05:33:57 2012
From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:33:57 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOve08HWyM2Ln-eDWKy8U5ERiyfYX_6D8LQEXFF9LqTcYA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CCF0175A474D409387558D4E79ABC7F3@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOve08HWyM2Ln-eDWKy8U5ERiyfYX_6D8LQEXFF9LqTcYA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC7+D=w=+nwhVo3t20TaOtF=uV-Skksi7-Q0zWG1rp3JucVzqA@mail.gmail.com>

Ah, ok, I see. Thanks for clearing that up.

On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> My idea, is that Jaws will always be outdated, due to the rise of NVDA.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/25/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> What is the jaws certification? Why do you say its not worth a lot?
>> I believe there are some certifications for teaching assistive tech out
>> there.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Nimer M. Jaber, IC³
>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:51 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light
>> House.
>>
>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>> decent job.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>> What a mistake!
>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>>>> I had.
>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>
>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>> employment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
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From turtlepower17 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 05:36:58 2012
From: turtlepower17 at gmail.com (Desiree Oudinot)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 01:36:58 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
In-Reply-To: <CA+N-3k0-mCnFQFiTE8S+PUT0hRdC8_KJ3TMyoT1wkQaVRHphjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>
	<737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>
	<00e201cd0a0a$f3b21f20$db165d60$@comcast.net>
	<CA+N-3k1HhysTv+09-MPjnmuXwHjukM4cLwHt8b0KR9RRTh63Jg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000a01cd0a78$922676c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<-4225011247113051920@unknownmsgid>
	<000301cd0acc$fa63c0e0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CA+N-3k3QFfAMV0GYUVzmrpWHrb2FGiu-CBjzcO3eRvpTRpUfQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000301cd0ae2$d9c0a4a0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAC7+D=xVFNfBgj4+uWNPP=QNrNVmCs8M_8PHkWt2wTDwKyrU7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<001301cd0af6$ce23fcf0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAF2O2Cw0z1yrA7bi0-NGn6o7vQmhdRV+jaby-3b+H2c95bsrmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+N-3k0-mCnFQFiTE8S+PUT0hRdC8_KJ3TMyoT1wkQaVRHphjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAC7+D=y5qjsKw5p7MLMQeK5z72-4r9KnmoKDB3fmtRDk=DoRyA@mail.gmail.com>

By the same token, you can't force something that's not meant to be.
If a sighted person doesn't want to get past the stereotype, that's
their loss, not yours.

On 3/25/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all, jeff again
>
> See it all comes down to a point of who you have been around, I have
> been around 3 other blind people besides the chapter metting in
> detroit MI which i don't get to go all that much anymore, I  am in
> flint, and well that's a lot of gas money.
>
> But anyway, If a sited person in my kase, just takes one look at me
> and does the stairow type, and I hate that more than anything. I do
> beleave that a boy or girl, man or woman should becompletely okay with
> each other's different things and if their truly in love with each
> other, then nothing will be a problem.
>
> sorry if this does not make sence, or fits in with the rest of the
> stuff, it is very late hear, and I am about to fall over.
>
> have a good night to all
>
> Jeff Crouch
>
> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Love your message Desiree, and I agree that generalizations aren't a
>> good thing. I have met very few blinde men or women that would measure
>> up to my physical and cognitive perceived abilities, but that doesn't
>> mean they don't exist. On the other hand, I haven't met very many
>> blind people in general, and many of the ones I have met also have
>> some underlying condition or disability. It's important that if we do
>> have standards, we ought to apply those same standards to everyone,
>> whether sighted or blind. Unless of course one of your standards is
>> that you're going to stick with dating a sighted person ...
>>
>> Later.
>>
>> On 25.03.2012, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Dez,
>>>
>>> I've never been in contact with blind women in my age bracket  who have
>>> succeeded in life like I have.  I myself have standards just like yours
>>> and
>>> use these on sighted people as well as blind people.  If I had an actual
>>> NFB
>>> chapter full of blind people like my self in my area It would be much
>>> easier
>>> for me to network and make blind friends.  My parents had beliefs similar
>>> to
>>> your parents because I never grew up around the NFB.  In fact I've just
>>> recently discovered this organization in the past few years.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 8:35 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>>> That's a pretty big generalization. I understand that our life
>>>> experiences shape our views, and more importantly, our prejudices, but
>>>> that doesn't mean that all blind women are what you're saying they
>>>> are. In fact, I've met just as many blind young men who are what you
>>>> describe. Also, you don't know the circumstances of every blind person
>>>> who's still living at home. Of course, if you're talking about former
>>>> dating partners, I would assume you did, but I would encourage you to
>>>> have a little compassion and sensitivity to whatever emotional issues
>>>> they might be facing that cause them to have no desire to leave home.
>>>> Are they afraid of failure? Have their parents belittled, degraded, or
>>>> even abused them due to their blindness?
>>>> I understand that there are blind people, women and men, old and
>>>> young, who have a chip on their shoulder and an entitlement complex a
>>>> mile long. But you know what? You can choose not to associate with
>>>> those people. Discouraging a kid from dating blind people is quite
>>>> another thing though.
>>>> My mom once told me when I was in high school and complaining about a
>>>> relationship that didn't work out, "blind people are screwed up in the
>>>> head. You shouldn't be dating them." By saying that, no matter how
>>>> well-intentioned her response was, she was putting me in the same
>>>> category. Can you imagine how I felt? To top it all off, in high
>>>> school, relationships don't last forever, so that made it doubly
>>>> hurtful.
>>>> To summarize, I have no problem dating a blind or sighted person. I've
>>>> dated both, and have had good and bad experiences with both. I also
>>>> don't shy away from being supportive of people who might not be as
>>>> strong as you and I are. Growing up, I never had much support from
>>>> anyone. I've made a promise to myself that I won't repeat that pattern
>>>> in my adulthood. Now, if a person is clearly trying to mooch off the
>>>> system, throws a pity party constantly, refuses to practice good
>>>> hygiene, and is grossly overweight due to perpetual inactivity, of
>>>> course I won't date them. But those are my standards, and aren't
>>>> limited to blindness. I wouldn't date a sighted person with those
>>>> traits either.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>> In my experiences with visually handicapped women most of them I've
>>>>> encountered that are at my age level are uneducated and still living
>>>>> under
>>>>> their parents roof.  My rule is that any woman I date should be on the
>>>>> same
>>>>> level both chronologically and mentally as I am.  I've graduated
>>>>> college
>>>>> and
>>>>> have been on my own since 2003. I am very independent.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:24 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, I would like to try dating a VI Girl, just to see what it would
>>>>>> be like, But unfornchely their is no one hear in flint.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Me neither.  But I am just warning Jeff to be careful.  Back then
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> went on dates I enjoyed myself very much. But I noticed during the
>>>>>>> High
>>>>>>> School years most girls weren't as accepting of me and I had more
>>>>>>> luck
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> dating during college than high school.  But again during the few
>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> dated as a teen I had fun.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Ignasi Cambra" <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:43 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was
>>>>>>>>fun!!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>>>>> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I did
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time you
>>>>>>>>> enter
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness
>>>>>>>>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get
>>>>>>>>> caught
>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>> in something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly
>>>>>>>>> figuring out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> your studies and don't worry as you get older your chance to date
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> hear before you know it.
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch"
>>>>>>>>> <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would
>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
>>>>>>>>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
>>>>>>>>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>>>>>>>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> this is my point of view
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world,
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>>>>>>>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not
>>>>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>>>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you
>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>> email me at
>>>>>>>>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> with love and respect
>>>>>>>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa.
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> sooo
>>>>>>>>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> happiness.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hugs,
>>>>>>>>>>> amy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> we are.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>>>>>>>>>> still working.
>>>>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>>>>>>>>> blind people
>>>>>>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>>>>>>>>> person.
>>>>>>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
>>>>>>>>>>> As a
>>>>>>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>>>>>>>>> some of
>>>>>>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>>>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>>>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>>>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>>>>>>>>> met
>>>>>>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>>>>>>>>> sites. I
>>>>>>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>>>>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>>>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>>>>>>>>> share in
>>>>>>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>>>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>>>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>>>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>>>>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>>>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>>>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>>>>>>>>> was on
>>>>>>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>>>>>>>>> blindness was
>>>>>>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>>>>>>>>> profile up
>>>>>>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>>>>>>>>> sites.
>>>>>>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>>>>>>>>> hence
>>>>>>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>>>>>>>>> profiles,
>>>>>>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>>>>>>>>> at some
>>>>>>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>>>>>>>>> happen at
>>>>>>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>>>>>>>>> get to
>>>>>>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>>>>>>>>> have done
>>>>>>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>>>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>>>>>>>>> blind. I
>>>>>>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>>>>>>>>> relationship I
>>>>>>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>>>>>>>>> blindness
>>>>>>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>>>>>>>>> interests and
>>>>>>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>>>>>>>>> passions
>>>>>>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>>>>>>>>> division,
>>>>>>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>>>>>>>>> simply for
>>>>>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>>>>>>>>> general
>>>>>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>>>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>>>>>>>>> necessarily
>>>>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>>>>>>>>> you meet
>>>>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>>>>>>>>> as they
>>>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>>>>>>>>> when they
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>>>>>>> forward to
>>>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>>>>>>> like a
>>>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>>>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> 73
>>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> 73
> kd8qiq
> jeff crouch
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>


From isaac.hebert at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 11:04:05 2012
From: isaac.hebert at gmail.com (Isaac Hebert)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 06:04:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 65, Issue 31
In-Reply-To: <mailman.4423.1332729600.15558.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.4423.1332729600.15558.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <CAFTLZhSykCENXACKe7px8LvdPb9O4ZycRn8wLMK3oW65cUxhYg@mail.gmail.com>

I have never dated any one online.

On 3/25/12, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
> 	nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of nabs-l digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision (Chris Nusbaum)
>    2. Re: Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>       (Joshua Lester)
>    3. Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision (Chris Nusbaum)
>    4. Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision (Joshua Lester)
>    5. Careers in assistive technology (Kayla Paige)
>    6. Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision (Ashley Bramlett)
>    7. Re: Careers in assistive technology (Joshua Lester)
>    8. Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision (Brian Hatgelakas)
>    9. Re: Careers in assistive technology (Nimer)
>   10. Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision (Brian Hatgelakas)
>   11. Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision (Nimer)
>   12. Re: Careers in assistive technology (Joshua Lester)
>   13. Re: Careers in assistive technology (Desiree Oudinot)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:34:35 -0400
> From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> 	list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
> Message-ID: <4f6fc7ba.83d6e00a.70e3.ffffb5fe at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> See you in Dallas!!
>
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
> nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:36:40 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
> You met this guy, that you're dating now, in person.
> Those relationships are the ones that usually last!
> To respond to Nimer's point about not going to the NFB
> conventions
> just to meet someone, I agree, and wasn't implying that.
> What I was saying, is that you still could meet someone, as a
> result
> of attending one.
> Just go, to connect with other blind people, and find some great
> deals
> on technology!
> That's why I'm going, again!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/22/12, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I'm currently dating a blind man right now that I met at
> Colorado
>  Center for the Blind.  We've been together for nearly two years.
>  I'vfe dated online, and I actually found someone who used to be
>  on this list, but we fizzled out after two months.  Then, I
> tried
>  Craig's List, not a good choice because I had guys that I wasn't
>  sure would fit the bill.  I've dated a sighted guy or two, and
>  had a crush on several other sighted guys, but they openly
>  rejected me, which bothered me.  The rejections were a result of
>  me being the only blind person in the school who wasn't "special
>  ed", if you know what I mean.  I honestly was not fitting in at
>  the regular ed level as far as ating went.  My parents forbade
> me
>  from dating, and now that I'm with this guy, I'm having culture
>  clashes.  For instance, he wants to marry a cousin, which is
>  illegal in the United States depending on how close you are with
>  the cousins you say you want to marry.  I'm trying to discourage
>  the cousin marriage because it's not legal and it could result
> in
>  defective children.  HE has a total defect in his eyes that
> could
>  mean the difference between being single for life and being
>  married to someone who might not understand the alternative
>  techniques of blindness.  For me, I don't think I see myself
> with
>  anyone else because he understands, but any other Muslim man
>  might not support me because of both blindness and a secondary
>  mental illness that came about as a result of my parents' fickle
>  parenting.  Just my thoughts.
>  Beth
>   ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Robin <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>  To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 14:47:45 -0700
>  Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>  Hello to everyone,
>  I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>  dating and if so what sites would you recommend? What
> experiences
>  have you had with dating sighted people vs dating blind people?
> I
>  look forward to hearing your stories.
>
>
>  I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>  Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is
>  vague,
>  like a breeze among flowers.
>  Hellen Keller
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info
>  for nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>  se%40gmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
> 0students.pccua.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
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> m%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:39:41 -0500
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low
> 	Vision
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAO83KOstnKCA_-FzKoimxnGDUHcwW668o26uL_LBLzjdzTV5Vw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Thanks, Chris.
> I appreciate the kindness.
> Thanks again.
> Joshua
>
> On 3/25/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Joshua,
>>
>> I'm sorry to hear about your mom's health! In that case, I
>> completely understand your wanting to stay closer to home.  I
>> hope she gets well soon and that nothing serious happens!
>>
>> God bless,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
>> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
>> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
>> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
>> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
>> nuisance."
>> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 23:50:29 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating &
>> Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>> I have to stay, closer to home, due to my mom's health.
>> She's diabetic, and has lost a leg, due to diabetes.
>> I have to be close by, in case, (God forbid,) something happens
>> to her.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
>> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>  I am not trying to be rude or condescending, but there is
>> something that I
>>  need to know.  Is it that all other guide dog schools are to
>> difficult to get
>>  to for some reason, or is it that you just don't want to travel
>> that far
>>  from home? And, this is not just about the guide dog schools;
>> this is about
>>  everything.
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:57 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating &
>> Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>  It's closer to Arkansas, (where I live.)
>>  Blessings, Joshua
>>
>>  On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
>> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>  Is that the only school that you would consider?
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:50 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>  I'm allergic to cats, dogs, and horses.
>>  I'm not sure, if Guiding Eyes trains poodles.
>>  That's an interesting question, and those of you, that received
>> your
>>  dogs from there, may be able to answer that.
>>  If so, I might be on the lookout for one.
>>  Thanks, Joshua
>>
>>  On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
>> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>  No dog is 100% allergy causing free, but most people who are
>> allergic to
>>  dogs are not allergic to poodles or labordoodles.  That being
>> said, I
>>  would
>>  like to know how many people are allergic to dogs.
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:33 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>  Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're
>> dating
>>  has an allergy to dogs.
>>  That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
>>  I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
>>  Nicole, do you know if they do?
>>  Thanks, Joshua
>>
>>  On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
>> <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
>>  I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that
>> they
>>  are
>>  not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you
>> want one
>>  for
>>  this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide
>> dogs
>>  can
>>  sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.
>> However,
>>  there
>>  is
>>  of course a flip side to that.  Some people who have guide dogs
>> don't
>>  like
>>  it
>>  when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>
>>  Nicole
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
>>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>  Hello All,
>>  This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons.
>> First,
>>  dating is hard as a blind person.  But dating can also be hard
>> for
>>  someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average
>> height,
>>  someone who has trouble hearing, etc.  In short, dating can be
>> hard for
>>  anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall
>> squarely in
>>  the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.
>> Even
>>  geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a
>> true
>>  story.
>>  I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend
>> of
>>  mine a few days ago.  And one of the things we both agreed upon,
>> is
>>  that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that
>> most
>>  people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual
>> being,
>>  who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable.  Which,
>> like
>>  Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and
>> other
>>  hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone
>> and go
>>  on a date.  We have to carry a heavier burden by making
>> ourselves even
>>  more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with
>> our
>>  self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like
>> this:
>>  Man and woman sit at bar.  Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>>  If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>>  though not always, make a comment which will spark off
>> conversation.
>>  If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation
>> she will
>>  angle herself toward the man.  If conversation continues to be
>>  stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection,
>> casual
>>  touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>>  Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective.  Man or woman
>> walk
>>  into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted
>> requests
>>  to be helped, man or woman find barstool.  After being observed
>> to
>>  enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about
>> blindness
>>  will have been activated.  And our shot of having this normal
>> courting
>>  sequence is nipped at the bud.  Of course, a person who wasn't
>> there
>>  before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>>  instantly drawn in.  Which is why, I like to arrive early at
>> parties
>>  and spark up a conversation with new comers.  When they find out
>> your
>>  blind however, all bets are off.
>>  This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not
>> have a
>>  dating experience.  On the contrary, I have been fairly
>> successful in
>>  dating along with many other blind women and men I know.  Like
>> Arielle
>>  and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should
>> be
>>  irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and
>> consider as a
>>  potential romantic partner.  there are so many other things that
>> come
>>  into play.  What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>>  intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>>  parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal
>> ideas
>>  they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but
>> decide to
>>  stay with them because it's more comfortable.  Relationships are
>> so
>>  incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from
>> each
>>  other.  But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>>  thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the
>> person
>>  despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship
>> than
>>  mere visual acuity.
>>  So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>>  explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something
>> your
>>  into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally
>> something
>>  I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all
>> means.  Be
>>   creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the
>> local
>>  bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house
>> parties.  But
>>  most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for
>> a
>>  sighted date or a blind date for validation.  Because that never
>> ends
>>  well.  The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>>  completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full
>> happy and
>>  fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by
>> the
>>  sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not.  But,
>> you do
>>  learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more
>> thing
>>  we have to do using alternative skills.  I know, from the
>> experience of
>>  friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people,
>> because
>>  it makes them feel useful.  It validates their self-worth, since
>> they
>>  have someone they can help all the time.  And I know blind
>> people who
>>  think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>>  experience.  I've done both, and speaking from a woman's
>> perspective.
>>  All men have issues.  But you can find some truly golden ones
>> among
>>  them all.
>>  A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual
>> reference
>>  to fashion and looking good.  Dress to bring out the best
>> features of
>>  yourself.  Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college
>> chic,
>>  when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.
>> Because I
>>  have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend.  Look nice, get
>> some
>>  delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>>  Sincerely,
>>  Mary
>>
>>  On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>  My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>> blind
>>  people
>>  growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>> person.
>>  We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>  Take care,
>>  Doug
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>  Hello all,
>>  Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>> own
>>  experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people
>> online.  As a
>>  matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online,
>> and he
>>  is blind as well.  We have been dating a little over a year now,
>> and I
>>  have also had the chance to meet him in person.  I can say that
>> some of
>>  what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>> and
>>  bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more
>> disastrous
>>  because of his family who are sighted.  Well the first time we
>> actually
>>  got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>> were
>>  present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of
>> us
>>  being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>> could
>>  meet.  About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and
>> that was
>>  a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part
>> of
>>  another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers.  I
>>  actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>> was
>>  hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>> person
>>  besides him, and he is not as independent as I am.  I have also
>> met
>>  sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>> sites.  I
>>  met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>> opinion,
>>  that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>> things
>>  in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>> most
>>  people have said already, one of the main things to consider
>> when
>>  dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>> share in
>>  common with the other person.  I personally have never dated a
>> sighted
>>  person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>  sighted.  Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because
>> I
>>  haven't wanted to tell them.  I don't meet these people in
>> person
>>  mainly because most of them are not from the U.S.  and therefore
>> it
>>  really hasn't come up.  Besides, I'm not as close to them, and
>> we
>>  mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with
>> most of
>>  these people I meet anyway.  I have also met blind friends
>> online, and
>>  basically the same goes for them.  So as most people have
>> already said,
>>  I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>> from a
>>  blind person.  A blind person might be a little more
>> understanding
>>  considering they go through some of the same things.  But on the
>> other
>>  side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>> completely
>>  adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>> their
>>  entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>> such
>>  as in my case.  So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>> can
>>  have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>> to
>>  handle each situation as it comes.  Good luck.
>>
>>
>>  On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  Hi all,
>>  I have a little experience with online dating, but not much.  I
>> was on
>>  a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>> didn't
>>  find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person.  I have a lot
>> of
>>  friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>> the
>>  whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>> first
>>  dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>> blindness was
>>  revealed online.  It really doesn't hurt to try it.  If you do
>> find
>>  someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>> public
>>  place.  But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>> profile up
>>  and seeing what happens.
>>  Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>  Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>> my
>>  sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>> sites.
>>  I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>> and
>>  said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>> attractive
>>  and appealing than the guys on the paid one.  So it's possible
>> the
>>  people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>> hence
>>  are better catches.
>>  I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>> during
>>  an online dating encounter.  Some people put it in their
>> profiles,
>>  others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>> at some
>>  point in the middle.  I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>> and
>>  reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>> before
>>  we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>> when
>>  they see me.  Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>> happen at
>>  any point in the process.  You'll have to decide whether you
>> would
>>  prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>> get to
>>  know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>  Regarding dating blind vs.  sighted people: Like many of us I
>> have done
>>  both.  I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>> person
>>  or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>> thinking.
>>  I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>> the
>>  same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>> blind.  I
>>  will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>> was
>>  easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>> what
>>  nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>> my
>>  nonverbal signals.  However, when I try to compare the
>> relationship I
>>  have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>> with the
>>  other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>> think
>>  of any major differences.  I do think that regardless of
>> blindness
>>  status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>> interests and
>>  passions in common.  NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>> us
>>  share, and they help bring many blind couples together.
>> However, there
>>  are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>  around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>> passions
>>  with you can be similarly rewarding.  In other words, instead of
>>  deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>> I
>>  think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>  common with them.  I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>> to
>>  meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>> singles'
>>  parties.  But if you can find communities of people that share
>> your
>>  interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>> division,
>>  classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>> better
>>  way to build lasting connections.
>>  Arielle
>>
>>  On 3/22/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>> simply for
>>  the dating scene.  I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>> like
>>  that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>> general
>>  sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>> etc
>>  to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>
>>  Later.
>>
>>  On 22.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>  Hello Robin,
>>
>>  Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>> learn
>>  from it.  It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>  others.
>>  As for the sighted vs.  blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>> Not
>>  dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>> and
>>  more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>  options,
>>  just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>> being
>>  rejected is crazy as well.  We're all individuals.  Many blind
>> people
>>  have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>  blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to
>> necessarily
>>  feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>> etc
>>  etc.  Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>  questions.
>>  Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>  educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>  willing
>>  to learn and it could work out.  As for good dating sites ...
>> why not
>>  just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>  status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>> that
>>  are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>  (whether online or not).
>>
>>  Anyway, talk to you later and peace.  May you have much luck
>> with
>>  your
>>  dating search.
>>
>>  Nimer J
>>
>>  On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> wrote:
>>  Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>> that
>>  pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>> you
>>  meet
>>  them, they're a criminal.
>>  Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>  Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>> yes,
>>  there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>  Blessings, Joshua
>>
>>  On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  Hi,
>>  I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>  would
>>  be
>>  very
>>  careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>> as
>>  they
>>  appear to be over emails.  I have dated very few blind people
>> and
>>  find
>>  that
>>  there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>  feel
>>  that
>>  is
>>  a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>> a
>>  daily
>>  basis and want to know we are more than our blindness.  I have
>>  found
>>  there
>>  are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially
>> when
>>  they
>>  are
>>  confident and out going.  I have been in a relationship with a
>>  sited
>>  person
>>  for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>  To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>  Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>  Hello to everyone,
>>  I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>  dating
>>  and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>  you
>>  had
>>  with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>> forward
>>  to
>>  hearing your stories.
>>
>>
>>  I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>  Perhaps
>>  there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>> like
>>  a
>>  breeze
>>
>>  among flowers.
>>  Hellen Keller
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>  addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>> recipient,
>>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>  correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>  contents
>>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>> or
>>  criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>> corresponding
>>  attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>> machine
>>  is
>>  up to you.  Thanks.
>>
>>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>>  http://counter.li.org/
>>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>  system,
>>  please click here:
>>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>> XP
>>  and above, please click here:
>>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>  news.
>>
>>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>  (720)
>>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>  addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>> recipient,
>>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>  correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>  contents
>>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>> or
>>  criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>> corresponding
>>  attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>> machine
>>  is
>>  up to you.  Thanks.
>>
>>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>>  http://counter.li.org/
>>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>> system,
>>  please click here:
>>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>> XP
>>  and above, please click here:
>>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>> news.
>>
>>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>  (720)
>>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
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>>
>>  --
>>  Mary Fernandez
>>  Emory 2012
>>  "Do I dare
>>  Disturb the universe?
>>  In a minute there is time
>>  For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>>  --
>>  T.S.  Eliot
>>
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:34:40 -0400
> From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> 	list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
> Message-ID: <4f6fc7c0.83d6e00a.70e3.ffffb603 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> By the way, I recall hearing something from Leader Dogs about
> them training laborodoodles.  Don't quote me on that, though; I
> would check with them before you decide to see if they train that
> type of dog.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
> Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
> dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
>
> "The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The
> real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
> exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and
> opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
> nuisance."
> -- Kenneth Jernigan
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:45:30 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
> For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want or
> any Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
> Beth
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that
> they are
> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you
> want one for
> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide
> dogs can
> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.
> However, there is
> of course a flip side to that.  Some people who have guide dogs
> don't like it
> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>
> Nicole
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
> Hello All,
> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons.  First,
> dating is hard as a blind person.  But dating can also be hard
> for
> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average
> height,
> someone who has trouble hearing, etc.  In short, dating can be
> hard for
> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall
> squarely in
> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.
> Even
> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a
> true
> story.
> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend
> of
> mine a few days ago.  And one of the things we both agreed upon,
> is
> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that
> most
> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual
> being,
> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable.  Which, like
> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and
> other
> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and
> go
> on a date.  We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves
> even
> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with
> our
> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like
> this:
> Man and woman sit at bar.  Man and woman makes eye-contact.
> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
> though not always, make a comment which will spark off
> conversation.
> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she
> will
> angle herself toward the man.  If conversation continues to be
> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection,
> casual
> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective.  Man or woman
> walk
> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted
> requests
> to be helped, man or woman find barstool.  After being observed
> to
> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about
> blindness
> will have been activated.  And our shot of having this normal
> courting
> sequence is nipped at the bud.  Of course, a person who wasn't
> there
> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
> instantly drawn in.  Which is why, I like to arrive early at
> parties
> and spark up a conversation with new comers.  When they find out
> your
> blind however, all bets are off.
> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not
> have a
> dating experience.  On the contrary, I have been fairly
> successful
> in
> dating along with many other blind women and men I know.  Like
> Arielle
> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should
> be
> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider
> as a
> potential romantic partner.  there are so many other things that
> come
> into play.  What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal
> ideas
> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but
> decide to
> stay with them because it's more comfortable.  Relationships are
> so
> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
> other.  But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the
> person
> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship
> than
> mere visual acuity.
> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something
> your
> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally
> something
> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all
> means.  Be
>  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the
> local
> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house
> parties.  But
> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
> sighted date or a blind date for validation.  Because that never
> ends
> well.  The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy
> and
> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by
> the
> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not.  But,
> you do
> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more
> thing
> we have to do using alternative skills.  I know, from the
> experience of
> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people,
> because
> it makes them feel useful.  It validates their self-worth, since
> they
> have someone they can help all the time.  And I know blind people
> who
> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
> experience.  I've done both, and speaking from a woman's
> perspective.
> All men have issues.  But you can find some truly golden ones
> among
> them all.
> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual
> reference
> to fashion and looking good.  Dress to bring out the best
> features
> of
> yourself.  Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college
> chic,
> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.
> Because I
> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend.  Look nice, get
> some
> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
> Sincerely,
> Mary
>
> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>  My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
> blind people
>  growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
> person.
>  We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>  Take care,
>  Doug
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  Hello all,
>  Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
> own
>  experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people
> online.  As a
>  matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online,
> and he
>  is blind as well.  We have been dating a little over a year now,
> and I
>  have also had the chance to meet him in person.  I can say that
> some of
>  what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
> and
>  bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more
> disastrous
>  because of his family who are sighted.  Well the first time we
> actually
>  got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
> were
>  present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of
> us
>  being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
> could
>  meet.  About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and
> that was
>  a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part
> of
>  another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers.  I
>  actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
> was
>  hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
> person
>  besides him, and he is not as independent as I am.  I have also
> met
>  sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
> sites.  I
>  met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
> opinion,
>  that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
> things
>  in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
> most
>  people have said already, one of the main things to consider
> when
>  dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
> share in
>  common with the other person.  I personally have never dated a
> sighted
>  person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>  sighted.  Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because
> I
>  haven't wanted to tell them.  I don't meet these people in
> person
>  mainly because most of them are not from the U.S.  and therefore
> it
>  really hasn't come up.  Besides, I'm not as close to them, and
> we
>  mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with
> most of
>  these people I meet anyway.  I have also met blind friends
> online, and
>  basically the same goes for them.  So as most people have
> already
> said,
>  I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
> from a
>  blind person.  A blind person might be a little more
> understanding
>  considering they go through some of the same things.  But on the
> other
>  side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
> completely
>  adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
> their
>  entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
> such
>  as in my case.  So I think dating both blind and sighted people
> can
>  have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
> to
>  handle each situation as it comes.  Good luck.
>
>
>  On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi all,
>  I have a little experience with online dating, but not much.  I
> was on
>  a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
> didn't
>  find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person.  I have a lot
> of
>  friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
> the
>  whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
> first
>  dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
> blindness was
>  revealed online.  It really doesn't hurt to try it.  If you do
> find
>  someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
> public
>  place.  But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
> profile up
>  and seeing what happens.
>  Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>  Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
> my
>  sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
> sites.
>  I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
> and
>  said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
> attractive
>  and appealing than the guys on the paid one.  So it's possible
> the
>  people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
> hence
>  are better catches.
>  I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
> during
>  an online dating encounter.  Some people put it in their
> profiles,
>  others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
> at some
>  point in the middle.  I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
> and
>  reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
> before
>  we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
> when
>  they see me.  Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
> happen at
>  any point in the process.  You'll have to decide whether you
> would
>  prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
> get to
>  know you before they learn about your blindness.
>  Regarding dating blind vs.  sighted people: Like many of us I
> have done
>  both.  I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
> person
>  or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
> thinking.
>  I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
> the
>  same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
> blind.  I
>  will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
> was
>  easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
> what
>  nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
> my
>  nonverbal signals.  However, when I try to compare the
> relationship I
>  have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
> with the
>  other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
> think
>  of any major differences.  I do think that regardless of
> blindness
>  status, it's important for you and your partner to share
> interests and
>  passions in common.  NFB and blindness are passions that many of
> us
>  share, and they help bring many blind couples together.
> However,
> there
>  are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>  around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
> passions
>  with you can be similarly rewarding.  In other words, instead of
>  deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
> I
>  think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>  common with them.  I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
> to
>  meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
> singles'
>  parties.  But if you can find communities of people that share
> your
>  interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
> division,
>  classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
> better
>  way to build lasting connections.
>  Arielle
>
>  On 3/22/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
> simply for
>  the dating scene.  I'm sure relationships do develop at things
> like
>  that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
> general
>  sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
> etc
>  to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>
>  Later.
>
>  On 22.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
> wrote:
>  Hello Robin,
>
>  Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
> learn
>  from it.  It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
> others.
>  As for the sighted vs.  blind thing, I would ask what you want.
> Not
>  dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
> and
>  more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
> options,
>  just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
> being
>  rejected is crazy as well.  We're all individuals.  Many blind
> people
>  have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>  blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to
> necessarily
>  feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
> etc
>  etc.  Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
> questions.
>  Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>  educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
> willing
>  to learn and it could work out.  As for good dating sites ...
> why
> not
>  just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>  status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
> that
>  are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>  (whether online or not).
>
>  Anyway, talk to you later and peace.  May you have much luck
> with
> your
>  dating search.
>
>  Nimer J
>
>  On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> wrote:
>  Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
> that
>  pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
> you meet
>  them, they're a criminal.
>  Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>  Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
> yes,
>  there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>  Blessings, Joshua
>
>  On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi,
>  I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
> would
>  be
>  very
>  careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
> as
>  they
>  appear to be over emails.  I have dated very few blind people
> and
> find
>  that
>  there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
> feel
>  that
>  is
>  a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
> a
>  daily
>  basis and want to know we are more than our blindness.  I have
> found
>  there
>  are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially
> when
>  they
>  are
>  confident and out going.  I have been in a relationship with a
> sited
>  person
>  for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>  To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>  Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>  Hello to everyone,
>  I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>  dating
>  and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
> you
>  had
>  with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
> forward to
>  hearing your stories.
>
>
>  I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>  Perhaps
>  there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
> like a
>  breeze
>
>  among flowers.
>  Hellen Keller
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info
>  for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
> %40gmail.com
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>  nabs-l:
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> 0students.pccua.edu
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> 0gmail.com
>
>
>
>  --
>  Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>  addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
> recipient,
>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>  correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
> contents
>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
> or
>  criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
> corresponding
>  attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
> machine is
>  up to you.  Thanks.
>
>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>  http://counter.li.org/
>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
> system,
>  please click here:
>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
> XP
>  and above, please click here:
>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>
>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
> news.
>
>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
> (720)
>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>
>
>  --
>  Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>  addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
> recipient,
>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>  correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
> contents
>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
> or
>  criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
> corresponding
>  attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
> machine is
>  up to you.  Thanks.
>
>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>  http://counter.li.org/
>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
> system,
>  please click here:
>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
> XP
>  and above, please click here:
>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>
>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
> news.
>
>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
> (720)
>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
> mail.com
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>
>
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> --
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory 2012
> "Do I dare
> Disturb the universe?
> In a minute there is time
> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
> --
> T.S.  Eliot
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:37:29 -0500
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAO83KOs0=pXg4j3jUNddZV_b83BvREs3vOPLRQFBWuPEGiQq0w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hi, Brian.
> I know plenty of blind women, who are endependent!
> Didn't you say in a previous post, that you were an aspiring DJ?
> Why not try to apply to work for this station?
> http://www.wics.cc
> The owner of this station, is an endependent blind woman!
> Please try to show more compassion!
> Thanks, Desiree, for the great post!
> I'm in agreement with you!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> In my experiences with visually handicapped women most of them I've
>> encountered that are at my age level are uneducated and still living under
>> their parents roof.  My rule is that any woman I date should be on the
>> same
>> level both chronologically and mentally as I am.  I've graduated college
>> and
>> have been on my own since 2003. I am very independent.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:24 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>> Yeah, I would like to try dating a VI Girl, just to see what it would
>>> be like, But unfornchely their is no one hear in flint.
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> Me neither.  But I am just warning Jeff to be careful.  Back then when I
>>>> went on dates I enjoyed myself very much. But I noticed during the High
>>>> School years most girls weren't as accepting of me and I had more luck
>>>> with
>>>> dating during college than high school.  But again during the few times
>>>> I
>>>> dated as a teen I had fun.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ignasi Cambra" <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:43 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was fun!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I did
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time you
>>>>>> enter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness
>>>>>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get caught
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> in something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly
>>>>>> figuring out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck in
>>>>>> your studies and don't worry as you get older your chance to date will
>>>>>> be
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hear before you know it.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would like
>>>>>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening is
>>>>>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
>>>>>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it would
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
>>>>>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>>>>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this is my point of view
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world, but
>>>>>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>>>>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not
>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you can
>>>>>>> email me at
>>>>>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> with love and respect
>>>>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa. I'm
>>>>>>>> sooo
>>>>>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
>>>>>>>> happiness.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hugs,
>>>>>>>> amy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> we are.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>>>>>>> still working.
>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>>>>>> blind people
>>>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>>>>>> person.
>>>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
>>>>>>>> As a
>>>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>>>>>> some of
>>>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>>>>>> met
>>>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>>>>>> sites. I
>>>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>>>>>> share in
>>>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>>>>>> was on
>>>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>>>>>> blindness was
>>>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>>>>>> profile up
>>>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>>>>>> sites.
>>>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>>>>>> hence
>>>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>>>>>> profiles,
>>>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>>>>>> at some
>>>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>>>>>> happen at
>>>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>>>>>> get to
>>>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>>>>>> have done
>>>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>>>>>> blind. I
>>>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>>>>>> relationship I
>>>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>>>>>> blindness
>>>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>>>>>> interests and
>>>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>>>>>> passions
>>>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>>>>>> division,
>>>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>>>>>> simply for
>>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>>>>>> general
>>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>>>>>> necessarily
>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>>>>>> you meet
>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>>>>>> as they
>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>>>>>> when they
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>>>> forward to
>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>>>> like a
>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>>>>>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>>>>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 73
>>> kd8qiq
>>> jeff crouch
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:53:05 -0400
> From: "Kayla Paige" <kayla.mattox at cox.net>
> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
> Message-ID: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE at kaylaPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a career in
> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage therapy,
> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:55:41 -0400
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
> Message-ID: <4FB60EA0EA5A4866B89F85394563173B at OwnerPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> IC,
> Yes some people do out of beliefs. IMO this isn't the place to debate
> whether to get a dog or not and if they are pure.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ignasi Cambra
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 12:22 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
> Would you give up on all the benefits of having a guide dog just
> because at some point a long time ago someone decided that dogs arr
> not pure...?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 22, 2012, at 10:47 PM, Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want or any
>> Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
>> Beth
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>> I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that they are
>> not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you want one
>> for
>> this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide dogs can
>> sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations. However, there
>> is
>> of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs don't like
>> it
>> when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
>>
>> Nicole
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello All,
>> This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
>> dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard for
>> someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average height,
>> someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be hard for
>> anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall squarely in
>> the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations. Even
>> geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a true
>> story.
>> I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend of
>> mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon, is
>> that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that most
>> people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual being,
>> who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
>> Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and other
>> hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and go
>> on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves even
>> more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with our
>> self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like this:
>> Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
>> If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
>> though not always, make a comment which will spark off conversation.
>> If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she will
>> angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
>> stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, casual
>> touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
>> Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman walk
>> into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted requests
>> to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed to
>> enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about blindness
>> will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal courting
>> sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't there
>> before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
>> instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at parties
>> and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out your
>> blind however, all bets are off.
>> This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not have a
>> dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly successful in
>> dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like Arielle
>> and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should be
>> irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider as a
>> potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that come
>> into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
>> intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
>> parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal ideas
>> they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but decide to
>> stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are so
>> incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
>> other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
>> thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the person
>> despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship than
>> mere visual acuity.
>> So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
>> explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something your
>> into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally something
>> I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all means. Be
>> creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the local
>> bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house parties. But
>> most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
>> sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never ends
>> well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
>> completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy and
>> fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by the
>> sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But, you do
>> learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more thing
>> we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the experience of
>> friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, because
>> it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since they
>> have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people who
>> think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
>> experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's perspective.
>> All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones among
>> them all.
>> A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual reference
>> to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best features of
>> yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college chic,
>> when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color. Because I
>> have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get some
>> delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
>> Sincerely,
>> Mary
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around blind people
>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind person.
>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>> Take care,
>> Doug
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello all,
>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my own
>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online. As a
>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and he
>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now, and I
>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that some of
>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good and
>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we actually
>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families were
>> present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of us
>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families could
>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that was
>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it was
>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind person
>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also met
>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating sites. I
>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my opinion,
>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have things
>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like most
>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you share in
>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a sighted
>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore it
>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most of
>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online, and
>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already said,
>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person from a
>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the other
>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't completely
>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family their
>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue such
>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people can
>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how to
>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I was on
>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but didn't
>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard the
>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous first
>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's blindness was
>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do find
>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a public
>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a profile up
>> and seeing what happens.
>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting my
>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid sites.
>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it and
>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more attractive
>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible the
>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and hence
>> are better catches.
>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness during
>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their profiles,
>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it at some
>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview and
>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but before
>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out when
>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can happen at
>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you would
>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to get to
>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I have done
>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind person
>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of thinking.
>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt the
>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were blind. I
>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship was
>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about what
>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret my
>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the relationship I
>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years with the
>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't think
>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of blindness
>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share interests and
>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of us
>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However, there
>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those passions
>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, I
>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard to
>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like singles'
>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share your
>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student division,
>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much better
>> way to build lasting connections.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention simply for
>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things like
>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with general
>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc etc
>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>
>> Later.
>>
>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Robin,
>>
>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and learn
>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for others.
>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want. Not
>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool and
>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your options,
>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of being
>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind people
>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>> blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to necessarily
>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, etc
>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many questions.
>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are willing
>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why not
>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences that
>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>> (whether online or not).
>>
>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with your
>> dating search.
>>
>> Nimer J
>>
>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, that
>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when you meet
>> them, they're a criminal.
>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh yes,
>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I would
>> be
>> very
>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming as
>> they
>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and find
>> that
>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I feel
>> that
>> is
>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on a
>> daily
>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have found
>> there
>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially when
>> they
>> are
>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a sited
>> person
>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>> Hello to everyone,
>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>> dating
>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have you
>> had
>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look forward to
>> hearing your stories.
>>
>>
>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>> Perhaps
>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a
>> breeze
>>
>> among flowers.
>> Hellen Keller
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>> %40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>> 0gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>> mail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>> 05%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
>> 40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%4
>> 0gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mary Fernandez
>> Emory 2012
>> "Do I dare
>> Disturb the universe?
>> In a minute there is time
>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>> --
>> T.S. Eliot
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 20:56:45 -0500
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> http://www.lwsb.org
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a career in
>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage therapy,
>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:18:59 -0400
> From: "Brian Hatgelakas" <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
> Message-ID: <001301cd0af6$ce23fcf0$1400ba43 at BRIAN>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8;
> 	reply-type=original
>
> Dez,
>
> I've never been in contact with blind women in my age bracket  who have
> succeeded in life like I have.  I myself have standards just like yours and
> use these on sighted people as well as blind people.  If I had an actual NFB
> chapter full of blind people like my self in my area It would be much easier
> for me to network and make blind friends.  My parents had beliefs similar to
> your parents because I never grew up around the NFB.  In fact I've just
> recently discovered this organization in the past few years.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 8:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>> That's a pretty big generalization. I understand that our life
>> experiences shape our views, and more importantly, our prejudices, but
>> that doesn't mean that all blind women are what you're saying they
>> are. In fact, I've met just as many blind young men who are what you
>> describe. Also, you don't know the circumstances of every blind person
>> who's still living at home. Of course, if you're talking about former
>> dating partners, I would assume you did, but I would encourage you to
>> have a little compassion and sensitivity to whatever emotional issues
>> they might be facing that cause them to have no desire to leave home.
>> Are they afraid of failure? Have their parents belittled, degraded, or
>> even abused them due to their blindness?
>> I understand that there are blind people, women and men, old and
>> young, who have a chip on their shoulder and an entitlement complex a
>> mile long. But you know what? You can choose not to associate with
>> those people. Discouraging a kid from dating blind people is quite
>> another thing though.
>> My mom once told me when I was in high school and complaining about a
>> relationship that didn't work out, "blind people are screwed up in the
>> head. You shouldn't be dating them." By saying that, no matter how
>> well-intentioned her response was, she was putting me in the same
>> category. Can you imagine how I felt? To top it all off, in high
>> school, relationships don't last forever, so that made it doubly
>> hurtful.
>> To summarize, I have no problem dating a blind or sighted person. I've
>> dated both, and have had good and bad experiences with both. I also
>> don't shy away from being supportive of people who might not be as
>> strong as you and I are. Growing up, I never had much support from
>> anyone. I've made a promise to myself that I won't repeat that pattern
>> in my adulthood. Now, if a person is clearly trying to mooch off the
>> system, throws a pity party constantly, refuses to practice good
>> hygiene, and is grossly overweight due to perpetual inactivity, of
>> course I won't date them. But those are my standards, and aren't
>> limited to blindness. I wouldn't date a sighted person with those
>> traits either.
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> In my experiences with visually handicapped women most of them I've
>>> encountered that are at my age level are uneducated and still living
>>> under
>>> their parents roof.  My rule is that any woman I date should be on the
>>> same
>>> level both chronologically and mentally as I am.  I've graduated college
>>> and
>>> have been on my own since 2003. I am very independent.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:24 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yeah, I would like to try dating a VI Girl, just to see what it would
>>>> be like, But unfornchely their is no one hear in flint.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>> Me neither.  But I am just warning Jeff to be careful.  Back then when
>>>>> I
>>>>> went on dates I enjoyed myself very much. But I noticed during the High
>>>>> School years most girls weren't as accepting of me and I had more luck
>>>>> with
>>>>> dating during college than high school.  But again during the few times
>>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>> dated as a teen I had fun.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Ignasi Cambra" <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:43 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was
>>>>>>fun!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>>> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I did
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time you
>>>>>>> enter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness
>>>>>>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get caught
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>> in something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly
>>>>>>> figuring out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck in
>>>>>>> your studies and don't worry as you get older your chance to date
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hear before you know it.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening is
>>>>>>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
>>>>>>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it would
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
>>>>>>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>>>>>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> this is my point of view
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world, but
>>>>>>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>>>>>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not
>>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> email me at
>>>>>>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with love and respect
>>>>>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa.
>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>> sooo
>>>>>>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
>>>>>>>>> happiness.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hugs,
>>>>>>>>> amy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> we are.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>>>>>>>> still working.
>>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>>>>>>> blind people
>>>>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>>>>>>> person.
>>>>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
>>>>>>>>> As a
>>>>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>>>>>>> some of
>>>>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>>>>>>> met
>>>>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>>>>>>> sites. I
>>>>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>>>>>>> share in
>>>>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>>>>>>> was on
>>>>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>>>>>>> blindness was
>>>>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>>>>>>> profile up
>>>>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>>>>>>> sites.
>>>>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>>>>>>> hence
>>>>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>>>>>>> profiles,
>>>>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>>>>>>> at some
>>>>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>>>>>>> happen at
>>>>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>>>>>>> get to
>>>>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>>>>>>> have done
>>>>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>>>>>>> blind. I
>>>>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>>>>>>> relationship I
>>>>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>>>>>>> blindness
>>>>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>>>>>>> interests and
>>>>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>>>>>>> passions
>>>>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>>>>>>> division,
>>>>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>>>>>>> simply for
>>>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>>>>>>> general
>>>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>>>>>>> necessarily
>>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>>>>>>> you meet
>>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>>>>>>> as they
>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>>>>>>> when they
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>>>>> forward to
>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>>>>> like a
>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>>>>>>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>>>>>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> 73
>>>> kd8qiq
>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:21:48 -0400
> From: Nimer M. Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Joshua,
>
> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
> employment.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> http://www.lwsb.org
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a career
>>> in
>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>> therapy,
>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:23:54 -0400
> From: "Brian Hatgelakas" <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
> Message-ID: <002501cd0af7$7dd58ec0$1400ba43 at BRIAN>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8;
> 	reply-type=original
>
> Josh,
>
> I do part time at a commercial station already!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:37 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>
>
>> Hi, Brian.
>> I know plenty of blind women, who are endependent!
>> Didn't you say in a previous post, that you were an aspiring DJ?
>> Why not try to apply to work for this station?
>> http://www.wics.cc
>> The owner of this station, is an endependent blind woman!
>> Please try to show more compassion!
>> Thanks, Desiree, for the great post!
>> I'm in agreement with you!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> In my experiences with visually handicapped women most of them I've
>>> encountered that are at my age level are uneducated and still living
>>> under
>>> their parents roof.  My rule is that any woman I date should be on the
>>> same
>>> level both chronologically and mentally as I am.  I've graduated college
>>> and
>>> have been on my own since 2003. I am very independent.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:24 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>>> Yeah, I would like to try dating a VI Girl, just to see what it would
>>>> be like, But unfornchely their is no one hear in flint.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>> Me neither.  But I am just warning Jeff to be careful.  Back then when
>>>>> I
>>>>> went on dates I enjoyed myself very much. But I noticed during the High
>>>>> School years most girls weren't as accepting of me and I had more luck
>>>>> with
>>>>> dating during college than high school.  But again during the few times
>>>>>
>>>>> I
>>>>> dated as a teen I had fun.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Ignasi Cambra" <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:43 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was
>>>>>>fun!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>>> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I did
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>> and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time you
>>>>>>> enter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness
>>>>>>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get caught
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>> in something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly
>>>>>>> figuring out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck in
>>>>>>> your studies and don't worry as you get older your chance to date
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hear before you know it.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would
>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening is
>>>>>>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
>>>>>>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it would
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
>>>>>>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>>>>>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> this is my point of view
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world, but
>>>>>>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>>>>>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not
>>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> email me at
>>>>>>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with love and respect
>>>>>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa.
>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>> sooo
>>>>>>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
>>>>>>>>> happiness.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hugs,
>>>>>>>>> amy
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> we are.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>>>>>>>> still working.
>>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>>>>>>> blind people
>>>>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>>>>>>> person.
>>>>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
>>>>>>>>> As a
>>>>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>>>>>>> some of
>>>>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>>>>>>> met
>>>>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>>>>>>> sites. I
>>>>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>>>>>>> share in
>>>>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>>>>>>> was on
>>>>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>>>>>>> blindness was
>>>>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>>>>>>> profile up
>>>>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>>>>>>> sites.
>>>>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>>>>>>> hence
>>>>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>>>>>>> profiles,
>>>>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>>>>>>> at some
>>>>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>>>>>>> happen at
>>>>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>>>>>>> get to
>>>>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>>>>>>> have done
>>>>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>>>>>>> blind. I
>>>>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>>>>>>> relationship I
>>>>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>>>>>>> blindness
>>>>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>>>>>>> interests and
>>>>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>>>>>>> passions
>>>>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>>>>>>> division,
>>>>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>>>>>>> simply for
>>>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>>>>>>> general
>>>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>>>>>>> necessarily
>>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>>>>>>> you meet
>>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>>>>>>> as they
>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>>>>>>> when they
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>>>>> forward to
>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>>>>> like a
>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>>>>>>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>>>>>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> 73
>>>> kd8qiq
>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:27:53 -0400
> From: Nimer M. Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAF2O2Cw0z1yrA7bi0-NGn6o7vQmhdRV+jaby-3b+H2c95bsrmA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Love your message Desiree, and I agree that generalizations aren't a
> good thing. I have met very few blinde men or women that would measure
> up to my physical and cognitive perceived abilities, but that doesn't
> mean they don't exist. On the other hand, I haven't met very many
> blind people in general, and many of the ones I have met also have
> some underlying condition or disability. It's important that if we do
> have standards, we ought to apply those same standards to everyone,
> whether sighted or blind. Unless of course one of your standards is
> that you're going to stick with dating a sighted person ...
>
> Later.
>
> On 25.03.2012, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Dez,
>>
>> I've never been in contact with blind women in my age bracket  who have
>> succeeded in life like I have.  I myself have standards just like yours
>> and
>> use these on sighted people as well as blind people.  If I had an actual
>> NFB
>> chapter full of blind people like my self in my area It would be much
>> easier
>> for me to network and make blind friends.  My parents had beliefs similar
>> to
>> your parents because I never grew up around the NFB.  In fact I've just
>> recently discovered this organization in the past few years.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 8:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>
>>
>>> That's a pretty big generalization. I understand that our life
>>> experiences shape our views, and more importantly, our prejudices, but
>>> that doesn't mean that all blind women are what you're saying they
>>> are. In fact, I've met just as many blind young men who are what you
>>> describe. Also, you don't know the circumstances of every blind person
>>> who's still living at home. Of course, if you're talking about former
>>> dating partners, I would assume you did, but I would encourage you to
>>> have a little compassion and sensitivity to whatever emotional issues
>>> they might be facing that cause them to have no desire to leave home.
>>> Are they afraid of failure? Have their parents belittled, degraded, or
>>> even abused them due to their blindness?
>>> I understand that there are blind people, women and men, old and
>>> young, who have a chip on their shoulder and an entitlement complex a
>>> mile long. But you know what? You can choose not to associate with
>>> those people. Discouraging a kid from dating blind people is quite
>>> another thing though.
>>> My mom once told me when I was in high school and complaining about a
>>> relationship that didn't work out, "blind people are screwed up in the
>>> head. You shouldn't be dating them." By saying that, no matter how
>>> well-intentioned her response was, she was putting me in the same
>>> category. Can you imagine how I felt? To top it all off, in high
>>> school, relationships don't last forever, so that made it doubly
>>> hurtful.
>>> To summarize, I have no problem dating a blind or sighted person. I've
>>> dated both, and have had good and bad experiences with both. I also
>>> don't shy away from being supportive of people who might not be as
>>> strong as you and I are. Growing up, I never had much support from
>>> anyone. I've made a promise to myself that I won't repeat that pattern
>>> in my adulthood. Now, if a person is clearly trying to mooch off the
>>> system, throws a pity party constantly, refuses to practice good
>>> hygiene, and is grossly overweight due to perpetual inactivity, of
>>> course I won't date them. But those are my standards, and aren't
>>> limited to blindness. I wouldn't date a sighted person with those
>>> traits either.
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> In my experiences with visually handicapped women most of them I've
>>>> encountered that are at my age level are uneducated and still living
>>>> under
>>>> their parents roof.  My rule is that any woman I date should be on the
>>>> same
>>>> level both chronologically and mentally as I am.  I've graduated college
>>>> and
>>>> have been on my own since 2003. I am very independent.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:24 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, I would like to try dating a VI Girl, just to see what it would
>>>>> be like, But unfornchely their is no one hear in flint.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Me neither.  But I am just warning Jeff to be careful.  Back then when
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> went on dates I enjoyed myself very much. But I noticed during the
>>>>>> High
>>>>>> School years most girls weren't as accepting of me and I had more luck
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> dating during college than high school.  But again during the few
>>>>>> times
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> dated as a teen I had fun.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Ignasi Cambra" <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:43 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was
>>>>>>>fun!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>>>> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I did
>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>> and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time you
>>>>>>>> enter
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness
>>>>>>>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get caught
>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>> in something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly
>>>>>>>> figuring out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> your studies and don't worry as you get older your chance to date
>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> hear before you know it.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch"
>>>>>>>> <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would
>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening is
>>>>>>>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would not
>>>>>>>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it would
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just over
>>>>>>>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>>>>>>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> this is my point of view
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world,
>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>>>>>>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not
>>>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> email me at
>>>>>>>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> with love and respect
>>>>>>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa.
>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>> sooo
>>>>>>>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health and
>>>>>>>>>> happiness.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hugs,
>>>>>>>>>> amy
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> we are.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>>>>>>>>> still working.
>>>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>>>>>>>> blind people
>>>>>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>>>>>>>> person.
>>>>>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people online.
>>>>>>>>>> As a
>>>>>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, and
>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>>>>>>>> some of
>>>>>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more disastrous
>>>>>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of us
>>>>>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and that
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part of
>>>>>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>>>>>>>> met
>>>>>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>>>>>>>> sites. I
>>>>>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>>>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider when
>>>>>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>>>>>>>> share in
>>>>>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with most
>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends online,
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>>>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more understanding
>>>>>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>>>>>>>> was on
>>>>>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>>>>>>>> blindness was
>>>>>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>>>>>>>> profile up
>>>>>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>>>>>>>> sites.
>>>>>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>>>>>>>> hence
>>>>>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>>>>>>>> profiles,
>>>>>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>>>>>>>> at some
>>>>>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>>>>>>>> happen at
>>>>>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>>>>>>>> get to
>>>>>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>>>>>>>> have done
>>>>>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>>>>>>>> blind. I
>>>>>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>>>>>>>> relationship I
>>>>>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>>>>>>>> blindness
>>>>>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>>>>>>>> interests and
>>>>>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>>>>>>>> passions
>>>>>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>>>>>>>> division,
>>>>>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>>>>>>>> simply for
>>>>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>>>>>>>> general
>>>>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>>>>>>>> necessarily
>>>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>>>>>>>> you meet
>>>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>>>>>>>> as they
>>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>>>>>>>> when they
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>>>>>> forward to
>>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>>>>>> like a
>>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>>>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>>>>>>>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>>>>>>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> 73
>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>
>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 21:29:03 -0500
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com, 	National Association of Blind Students
> 	mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
> What a mistake!
> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
> I had.
> We called her Ms Z.
> Anyone remember her?
> Blessings,Joshua
>
> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Joshua,
>>
>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>> employment.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a career
>>>> in
>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>> therapy,
>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:39:48 -0400
> From: Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi,
> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>
> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>> What a mistake!
>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>> I had.
>> We called her Ms Z.
>> Anyone remember her?
>> Blessings,Joshua
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC? <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Joshua,
>>>
>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>> employment.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a career
>>>>> in
>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>> therapy,
>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC? and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>
>
> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 65, Issue 31
> **************************************
>


From marrie12 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 13:08:45 2012
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 06:08:45 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] This week's tcjwb on wics radio america
Message-ID: <B2FE729F-BE35-4993-83FA-DB972EB4F418@gmail.com>

Hello all. Today is Stravinsky and a  symphony so come on in and let's listen to some ballet music and more on this week's edition of tcjwb.

Info is below. 

Place: Http://Listen.Ultrastreams.Us:8022/Stream.M3u
time: Monday from 9-11 pm eastern, 8-10 pm central, 7-9 mountain, and 6-8 pm pacific

contact info
show twitter: Http://Twitter.Com/tcjwb
station twitter: Http://Twitter.Com/wicsradio. 

If you need to contact me off air  contact me here.
http://wics.cc/contact
or here.
Http://Twitter.Com/marrie1
see you there.


From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Mon Mar 26 14:22:20 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:22:20 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000701cd0b5b$db3ed530$1400ba43@BRIAN>

Why are they in business if clients can't find work afterwards.  Also when 
board members are present why do they disguise their food to something they 
are not?  Is it just a way to "cover their asses?" If someone was brave 
enough to put a youtube video on about the goings on when board members 
aren't present then would WSB end up in trouble?  I've always wondered this.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light House.

Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
decent job.

Thanks.

On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>
> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>> What a mistake!
>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>> I had.
>> We called her Ms Z.
>> Anyone remember her?
>> Blessings,Joshua
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Joshua,
>>>
>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>> employment.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a 
>>>>> career
>>>>> in
>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>> therapy,
>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net 




From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Mon Mar 26 14:25:02 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:25:02 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CxuVvjrN6bqTYiB8FxEkWB=6q2RfF1eWjURmBimukQ_gw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000b01cd0b5c$3c4a2000$1400ba43@BRIAN>

If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs accept the IRS 
program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state agencies on 
useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do an 
investigative article on this topic.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


Joshua,

The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB. You can go to
any other IRS class and get the same offered position. WSB just
happens to be the location of an IRS training sight. The employees
that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the computer
network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes and WSB
two separate entities in my mind. Even if you wish to count the IRS
classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs that
will not provide employment once a program has been terminated and a
client has graduated successfully.

Thanks.

On 25.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light 
> House.
>
> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
> decent job.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>> What a mistake!
>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>>> I had.
>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>> Anyone remember her?
>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Joshua,
>>>>
>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>> employment.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>> career
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
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>>
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>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>


-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Mon Mar 26 14:27:38 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:27:38 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>
	<737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>
	<00e201cd0a0a$f3b21f20$db165d60$@comcast.net>
	<CA+N-3k1HhysTv+09-MPjnmuXwHjukM4cLwHt8b0KR9RRTh63Jg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000a01cd0a78$922676c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>	<-4225011247113051920@unknownmsgid>
	<000301cd0acc$fa63c0e0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CA+N-3k3QFfAMV0GYUVzmrpWHrb2FGiu-CBjzcO3eRvpTRpUfQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000301cd0ae2$d9c0a4a0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAC7+D=xVFNfBgj4+uWNPP=QNrNVmCs8M_8PHkWt2wTDwKyrU7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<001301cd0af6$ce23fcf0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAF2O2Cw0z1yrA7bi0-NGn6o7vQmhdRV+jaby-3b+H2c95bsrmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+N-3k0-mCnFQFiTE8S+PUT0hRdC8_KJ3TMyoT1wkQaVRHphjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001501cd0b5c$9913a270$1400ba43@BRIAN>

 Jeff I totally agree I hate when people stereotype.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
To: <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


> Hi all, jeff again
>
> See it all comes down to a point of who you have been around, I have
> been around 3 other blind people besides the chapter metting in
> detroit MI which i don't get to go all that much anymore, I  am in
> flint, and well that's a lot of gas money.
>
> But anyway, If a sited person in my kase, just takes one look at me
> and does the stairow type, and I hate that more than anything. I do
> beleave that a boy or girl, man or woman should becompletely okay with
> each other's different things and if their truly in love with each
> other, then nothing will be a problem.
>
> sorry if this does not make sence, or fits in with the rest of the
> stuff, it is very late hear, and I am about to fall over.
>
> have a good night to all
>
> Jeff Crouch
>
> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Love your message Desiree, and I agree that generalizations aren't a
>> good thing. I have met very few blinde men or women that would measure
>> up to my physical and cognitive perceived abilities, but that doesn't
>> mean they don't exist. On the other hand, I haven't met very many
>> blind people in general, and many of the ones I have met also have
>> some underlying condition or disability. It's important that if we do
>> have standards, we ought to apply those same standards to everyone,
>> whether sighted or blind. Unless of course one of your standards is
>> that you're going to stick with dating a sighted person ...
>>
>> Later.
>>
>> On 25.03.2012, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Dez,
>>>
>>> I've never been in contact with blind women in my age bracket  who have
>>> succeeded in life like I have.  I myself have standards just like yours
>>> and
>>> use these on sighted people as well as blind people.  If I had an actual
>>> NFB
>>> chapter full of blind people like my self in my area It would be much
>>> easier
>>> for me to network and make blind friends.  My parents had beliefs 
>>> similar
>>> to
>>> your parents because I never grew up around the NFB.  In fact I've just
>>> recently discovered this organization in the past few years.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 8:35 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>
>>>
>>>> That's a pretty big generalization. I understand that our life
>>>> experiences shape our views, and more importantly, our prejudices, but
>>>> that doesn't mean that all blind women are what you're saying they
>>>> are. In fact, I've met just as many blind young men who are what you
>>>> describe. Also, you don't know the circumstances of every blind person
>>>> who's still living at home. Of course, if you're talking about former
>>>> dating partners, I would assume you did, but I would encourage you to
>>>> have a little compassion and sensitivity to whatever emotional issues
>>>> they might be facing that cause them to have no desire to leave home.
>>>> Are they afraid of failure? Have their parents belittled, degraded, or
>>>> even abused them due to their blindness?
>>>> I understand that there are blind people, women and men, old and
>>>> young, who have a chip on their shoulder and an entitlement complex a
>>>> mile long. But you know what? You can choose not to associate with
>>>> those people. Discouraging a kid from dating blind people is quite
>>>> another thing though.
>>>> My mom once told me when I was in high school and complaining about a
>>>> relationship that didn't work out, "blind people are screwed up in the
>>>> head. You shouldn't be dating them." By saying that, no matter how
>>>> well-intentioned her response was, she was putting me in the same
>>>> category. Can you imagine how I felt? To top it all off, in high
>>>> school, relationships don't last forever, so that made it doubly
>>>> hurtful.
>>>> To summarize, I have no problem dating a blind or sighted person. I've
>>>> dated both, and have had good and bad experiences with both. I also
>>>> don't shy away from being supportive of people who might not be as
>>>> strong as you and I are. Growing up, I never had much support from
>>>> anyone. I've made a promise to myself that I won't repeat that pattern
>>>> in my adulthood. Now, if a person is clearly trying to mooch off the
>>>> system, throws a pity party constantly, refuses to practice good
>>>> hygiene, and is grossly overweight due to perpetual inactivity, of
>>>> course I won't date them. But those are my standards, and aren't
>>>> limited to blindness. I wouldn't date a sighted person with those
>>>> traits either.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>> In my experiences with visually handicapped women most of them I've
>>>>> encountered that are at my age level are uneducated and still living
>>>>> under
>>>>> their parents roof.  My rule is that any woman I date should be on the
>>>>> same
>>>>> level both chronologically and mentally as I am.  I've graduated 
>>>>> college
>>>>> and
>>>>> have been on my own since 2003. I am very independent.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:24 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, I would like to try dating a VI Girl, just to see what it would
>>>>>> be like, But unfornchely their is no one hear in flint.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Me neither.  But I am just warning Jeff to be careful.  Back then 
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> went on dates I enjoyed myself very much. But I noticed during the
>>>>>>> High
>>>>>>> School years most girls weren't as accepting of me and I had more 
>>>>>>> luck
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> dating during college than high school.  But again during the few
>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> dated as a teen I had fun.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Ignasi Cambra" <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:43 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was
>>>>>>>>fun!!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>>>>> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I 
>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>> and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time 
>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>> enter
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness
>>>>>>>>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get 
>>>>>>>>> caught
>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>> in something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly
>>>>>>>>> figuring out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good luck
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> your studies and don't worry as you get older your chance to date
>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> hear before you know it.
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch"
>>>>>>>>> <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would
>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening 
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would 
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it 
>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just 
>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>>>>>>>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> this is my point of view
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world,
>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>>>>>>>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have not
>>>>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>>>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, you
>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>> email me at
>>>>>>>>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> with love and respect
>>>>>>>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and mellissa.
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> sooo
>>>>>>>>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health 
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> happiness.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hugs,
>>>>>>>>>>> amy
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> we are.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>>>>>>>>>> still working.
>>>>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>>>>>>>>> blind people
>>>>>>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>>>>>>>>> person.
>>>>>>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people 
>>>>>>>>>>> online.
>>>>>>>>>>> As a
>>>>>>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, 
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>>>>>>>>> some of
>>>>>>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more 
>>>>>>>>>>> disastrous
>>>>>>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of 
>>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and 
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part 
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>>>>>>>>> met
>>>>>>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>>>>>>>>> sites. I
>>>>>>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>>>>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider 
>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>>>>>>>>> share in
>>>>>>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because I
>>>>>>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in person
>>>>>>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and we
>>>>>>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with 
>>>>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends 
>>>>>>>>>>> online,
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have already
>>>>>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>>>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more 
>>>>>>>>>>> understanding
>>>>>>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>>>>>>>>> was on
>>>>>>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot of
>>>>>>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>>>>>>>>> blindness was
>>>>>>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>>>>>>>>> profile up
>>>>>>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>>>>>>>>> sites.
>>>>>>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>>>>>>>>> hence
>>>>>>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>>>>>>>>> profiles,
>>>>>>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>>>>>>>>> at some
>>>>>>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>>>>>>>>> happen at
>>>>>>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>>>>>>>>> get to
>>>>>>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>>>>>>>>> have done
>>>>>>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>>>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>>>>>>>>> blind. I
>>>>>>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>>>>>>>>> relationship I
>>>>>>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>>>>>>>>> blindness
>>>>>>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>>>>>>>>> interests and
>>>>>>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. However,
>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
>>>>>>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>>>>>>>>> passions
>>>>>>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
>>>>>>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>>>>>>>>> division,
>>>>>>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>>>>>>>>> simply for
>>>>>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>>>>>>>>> general
>>>>>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
>>>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>>>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>>>>>>>>> necessarily
>>>>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
>>>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
>>>>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... why
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
>>>>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck with
>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>>>>>>>>> you meet
>>>>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>>>>>>>>> as they
>>>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people and
>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>>>>>>>>> when they
>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
>>>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>>>>>>> forward to
>>>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>>>>>>> like a
>>>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>>>>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>>>>>>>>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>>>>>>>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>>>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> 73
>>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> -- 
> 73
> kd8qiq
> jeff crouch
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
> 




From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Mon Mar 26 14:29:48 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:29:48 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
References: <4f6bd1fe.a656b60a.62ad.4a57@mx.google.com>
	<737533EE6147495A8A4702F356DD0AD3@ownerpc>
	<00e201cd0a0a$f3b21f20$db165d60$@comcast.net>
	<CA+N-3k1HhysTv+09-MPjnmuXwHjukM4cLwHt8b0KR9RRTh63Jg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000a01cd0a78$922676c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>	<-4225011247113051920@unknownmsgid>
	<000301cd0acc$fa63c0e0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CA+N-3k3QFfAMV0GYUVzmrpWHrb2FGiu-CBjzcO3eRvpTRpUfQQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000301cd0ae2$d9c0a4a0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAC7+D=xVFNfBgj4+uWNPP=QNrNVmCs8M_8PHkWt2wTDwKyrU7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<001301cd0af6$ce23fcf0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAF2O2Cw0z1yrA7bi0-NGn6o7vQmhdRV+jaby-3b+H2c95bsrmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+N-3k0-mCnFQFiTE8S+PUT0hRdC8_KJ3TMyoT1wkQaVRHphjw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y5qjsKw5p7MLMQeK5z72-4r9KnmoKDB3fmtRDk=DoRyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001d01cd0b5c$e643c430$1400ba43@BRIAN>

amen! Desiree!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 1:36 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


> By the same token, you can't force something that's not meant to be.
> If a sighted person doesn't want to get past the stereotype, that's
> their loss, not yours.
>
> On 3/25/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all, jeff again
>>
>> See it all comes down to a point of who you have been around, I have
>> been around 3 other blind people besides the chapter metting in
>> detroit MI which i don't get to go all that much anymore, I  am in
>> flint, and well that's a lot of gas money.
>>
>> But anyway, If a sited person in my kase, just takes one look at me
>> and does the stairow type, and I hate that more than anything. I do
>> beleave that a boy or girl, man or woman should becompletely okay with
>> each other's different things and if their truly in love with each
>> other, then nothing will be a problem.
>>
>> sorry if this does not make sence, or fits in with the rest of the
>> stuff, it is very late hear, and I am about to fall over.
>>
>> have a good night to all
>>
>> Jeff Crouch
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Love your message Desiree, and I agree that generalizations aren't a
>>> good thing. I have met very few blinde men or women that would measure
>>> up to my physical and cognitive perceived abilities, but that doesn't
>>> mean they don't exist. On the other hand, I haven't met very many
>>> blind people in general, and many of the ones I have met also have
>>> some underlying condition or disability. It's important that if we do
>>> have standards, we ought to apply those same standards to everyone,
>>> whether sighted or blind. Unless of course one of your standards is
>>> that you're going to stick with dating a sighted person ...
>>>
>>> Later.
>>>
>>> On 25.03.2012, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> Dez,
>>>>
>>>> I've never been in contact with blind women in my age bracket  who have
>>>> succeeded in life like I have.  I myself have standards just like yours
>>>> and
>>>> use these on sighted people as well as blind people.  If I had an 
>>>> actual
>>>> NFB
>>>> chapter full of blind people like my self in my area It would be much
>>>> easier
>>>> for me to network and make blind friends.  My parents had beliefs 
>>>> similar
>>>> to
>>>> your parents because I never grew up around the NFB.  In fact I've just
>>>> recently discovered this organization in the past few years.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 8:35 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> That's a pretty big generalization. I understand that our life
>>>>> experiences shape our views, and more importantly, our prejudices, but
>>>>> that doesn't mean that all blind women are what you're saying they
>>>>> are. In fact, I've met just as many blind young men who are what you
>>>>> describe. Also, you don't know the circumstances of every blind person
>>>>> who's still living at home. Of course, if you're talking about former
>>>>> dating partners, I would assume you did, but I would encourage you to
>>>>> have a little compassion and sensitivity to whatever emotional issues
>>>>> they might be facing that cause them to have no desire to leave home.
>>>>> Are they afraid of failure? Have their parents belittled, degraded, or
>>>>> even abused them due to their blindness?
>>>>> I understand that there are blind people, women and men, old and
>>>>> young, who have a chip on their shoulder and an entitlement complex a
>>>>> mile long. But you know what? You can choose not to associate with
>>>>> those people. Discouraging a kid from dating blind people is quite
>>>>> another thing though.
>>>>> My mom once told me when I was in high school and complaining about a
>>>>> relationship that didn't work out, "blind people are screwed up in the
>>>>> head. You shouldn't be dating them." By saying that, no matter how
>>>>> well-intentioned her response was, she was putting me in the same
>>>>> category. Can you imagine how I felt? To top it all off, in high
>>>>> school, relationships don't last forever, so that made it doubly
>>>>> hurtful.
>>>>> To summarize, I have no problem dating a blind or sighted person. I've
>>>>> dated both, and have had good and bad experiences with both. I also
>>>>> don't shy away from being supportive of people who might not be as
>>>>> strong as you and I are. Growing up, I never had much support from
>>>>> anyone. I've made a promise to myself that I won't repeat that pattern
>>>>> in my adulthood. Now, if a person is clearly trying to mooch off the
>>>>> system, throws a pity party constantly, refuses to practice good
>>>>> hygiene, and is grossly overweight due to perpetual inactivity, of
>>>>> course I won't date them. But those are my standards, and aren't
>>>>> limited to blindness. I wouldn't date a sighted person with those
>>>>> traits either.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>> In my experiences with visually handicapped women most of them I've
>>>>>> encountered that are at my age level are uneducated and still living
>>>>>> under
>>>>>> their parents roof.  My rule is that any woman I date should be on 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> same
>>>>>> level both chronologically and mentally as I am.  I've graduated
>>>>>> college
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> have been on my own since 2003. I am very independent.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "jeff crouch" <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 5:24 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yeah, I would like to try dating a VI Girl, just to see what it 
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> be like, But unfornchely their is no one hear in flint.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Me neither.  But I am just warning Jeff to be careful.  Back then
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> went on dates I enjoyed myself very much. But I noticed during the
>>>>>>>> High
>>>>>>>> School years most girls weren't as accepting of me and I had more
>>>>>>>> luck
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> dating during college than high school.  But again during the few
>>>>>>>> times
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> dated as a teen I had fun.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Ignasi Cambra" <ignasicambra at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:43 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I don't see anything wrong with dating during high school. It was
>>>>>>>>>fun!!!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 25, 2012, at 7:17 AM, Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>>>>>> <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> @Jeff my advice to you is wait until college to start dating. I 
>>>>>>>>>> did
>>>>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>>>> and am very happy I did.    By doing this the women by the time 
>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>> enter
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> college will be much more mature and accepting of your blindness
>>>>>>>>>> situation. Right now as a teenager make friends and don't get
>>>>>>>>>> caught
>>>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>>>> in something you know won't last.  Because at your age its mostly
>>>>>>>>>> figuring out who you are and that's the same for girls.  Good 
>>>>>>>>>> luck
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> your studies and don't worry as you get older your chance to date
>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> hear before you know it.
>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "jeff crouch"
>>>>>>>>>> <jeffanel at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 7:11 PM
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ah, it must be nice being of legal age, but i am 15, and I would
>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>> to be in a releasonship, but the practicablity of this happening
>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>> slim, with school, and extra crickler activatives things would 
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> really work out, but as i said, it would be nice.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> in a onist way of putting it, from a adault point of view, it
>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>>> pointless for me to get in a releationship because it is just 
>>>>>>>>>>> over
>>>>>>>>>>> reactive hormons that would get in the way and then after a wile
>>>>>>>>>>> things would simmer down, and hear that person go's, on the hunt
>>>>>>>>>>> again.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> this is my point of view
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> but i think you would have good luck in the online dating world,
>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>> as one of the posters said, becareful, i know from experence, my
>>>>>>>>>>> friend did that online stuff, and then well to putt it i have 
>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>> seen
>>>>>>>>>>> her for quite some years, she went missing, so be careful
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> don't mean to sound like a dad, lol
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> every one have a good day, and if anyone needs to contact me, 
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>> email me at
>>>>>>>>>>> jeffanel at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>> kd8qiq at arrl.net
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> with love and respect
>>>>>>>>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/24/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello doug,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials with you and 
>>>>>>>>>>>> mellissa.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>> sooo
>>>>>>>>>>>> happy for the both of you! Here's wishing you both good health
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> happiness.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Take care and, I will talk to you soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hugs,
>>>>>>>>>>>> amy
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>>>>>>>> Of Doug Oliver
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:05 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> we are.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Beth" <thebluesisloose at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:28 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Doug, good luck with your fiancee.  I hope the two of you are
>>>>>>>>>>>> still working.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Beth
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Doug Oliver" <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:54:51 -0500
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm gonna way in on this topic.
>>>>>>>>>>>> My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
>>>>>>>>>>>> blind people
>>>>>>>>>>>> growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
>>>>>>>>>>>> person.
>>>>>>>>>>>> We've met in person twice and it's been great.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
>>>>>>>>>>>> own
>>>>>>>>>>>> experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people 
>>>>>>>>>>>> online.
>>>>>>>>>>>> As a
>>>>>>>>>>>> matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> he
>>>>>>>>>>>> is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and I
>>>>>>>>>>>> have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
>>>>>>>>>>>> some of
>>>>>>>>>>>> what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more 
>>>>>>>>>>>> disastrous
>>>>>>>>>>>> because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
>>>>>>>>>>>> actually
>>>>>>>>>>>> got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
>>>>>>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>>>>>>> present, not only for descriptive purposes but also because of 
>>>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>>> being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
>>>>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>>>>> meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>> a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>> hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>> besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
>>>>>>>>>>>> met
>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
>>>>>>>>>>>> sites. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
>>>>>>>>>>>> opinion,
>>>>>>>>>>>> that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
>>>>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>>>>> in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
>>>>>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>>>>> people have said already, one of the main things to consider 
>>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>>> dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
>>>>>>>>>>>> share in
>>>>>>>>>>>> common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted
>>>>>>>>>>>> person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
>>>>>>>>>>>> sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because 
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in 
>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>> mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
>>>>>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>>>>>> really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and 
>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>> mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with 
>>>>>>>>>>>> most
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends 
>>>>>>>>>>>> online,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> basically the same goes for them. So as most people have 
>>>>>>>>>>>> already
>>>>>>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
>>>>>>>>>>>> from a
>>>>>>>>>>>> blind person. A blind person might be a little more 
>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding
>>>>>>>>>>>> considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> other
>>>>>>>>>>>> side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>>>>> adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their 
>>>>>>>>>>>> family
>>>>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>>>>> entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
>>>>>>>>>>>> such
>>>>>>>>>>>> as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
>>>>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>>>>> have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> was on
>>>>>>>>>>>> a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't
>>>>>>>>>>>> find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot 
>>>>>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
>>>>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>>>>> dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness was
>>>>>>>>>>>> revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
>>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>>> someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
>>>>>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>>>>>> place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
>>>>>>>>>>>> profile up
>>>>>>>>>>>> and seeing what happens.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was 
>>>>>>>>>>>> visiting
>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>> sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
>>>>>>>>>>>> sites.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
>>>>>>>>>>>> attractive
>>>>>>>>>>>> and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
>>>>>>>>>>>> hence
>>>>>>>>>>>> are better catches.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
>>>>>>>>>>>> during
>>>>>>>>>>>> an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
>>>>>>>>>>>> profiles,
>>>>>>>>>>>> others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
>>>>>>>>>>>> at some
>>>>>>>>>>>> point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
>>>>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>>>>> we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
>>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>>> they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
>>>>>>>>>>>> happen at
>>>>>>>>>>>> any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
>>>>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>>>>> prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
>>>>>>>>>>>> get to
>>>>>>>>>>>> know you before they learn about your blindness.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
>>>>>>>>>>>> have done
>>>>>>>>>>>> both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>> or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking.
>>>>>>>>>>>> I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
>>>>>>>>>>>> blind. I
>>>>>>>>>>>> will say that in some ways establishing the initial 
>>>>>>>>>>>> relationship
>>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>>> easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
>>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
>>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>> nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
>>>>>>>>>>>> relationship I
>>>>>>>>>>>> have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
>>>>>>>>>>>> with the
>>>>>>>>>>>> other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
>>>>>>>>>>>> think
>>>>>>>>>>>> of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness
>>>>>>>>>>>> status, it's important for you and your partner to share
>>>>>>>>>>>> interests and
>>>>>>>>>>>> passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
>>>>>>>>>>>> us
>>>>>>>>>>>> share, and they help bring many blind couples together. 
>>>>>>>>>>>> However,
>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>> are other interests or passions you may share with sighted 
>>>>>>>>>>>> folks
>>>>>>>>>>>> around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
>>>>>>>>>>>> passions
>>>>>>>>>>>> with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>> deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or 
>>>>>>>>>>>> blind,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>>>> think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share 
>>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>>> common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>> meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
>>>>>>>>>>>> singles'
>>>>>>>>>>>> parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>> interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
>>>>>>>>>>>> division,
>>>>>>>>>>>> classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
>>>>>>>>>>>> better
>>>>>>>>>>>> way to build lasting connections.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
>>>>>>>>>>>> simply for
>>>>>>>>>>>> the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
>>>>>>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>>>>>>> that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
>>>>>>>>>>>> general
>>>>>>>>>>>> sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, 
>>>>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>>>> to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Later.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Robin,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
>>>>>>>>>>>> learn
>>>>>>>>>>>> from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
>>>>>>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>>>>>> As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Not
>>>>>>>>>>>> dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
>>>>>>>>>>>> options,
>>>>>>>>>>>> just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
>>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>>> rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
>>>>>>>>>>>> people
>>>>>>>>>>>> have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
>>>>>>>>>>>> blindness completely, etc but you wouldn't have to
>>>>>>>>>>>> necessarily
>>>>>>>>>>>> feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your 
>>>>>>>>>>>> appearance,
>>>>>>>>>>>> etc
>>>>>>>>>>>> etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
>>>>>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot 
>>>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>>>> educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
>>>>>>>>>>>> willing
>>>>>>>>>>>> to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ... 
>>>>>>>>>>>> why
>>>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>>>> just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put 
>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>> status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
>>>>>>>>>>>> (whether online or not).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck 
>>>>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>>> dating search.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nimer J
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
>>>>>>>>>>>> you meet
>>>>>>>>>>>> them, they're a criminal.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
>>>>>>>>>>>> yes,
>>>>>>>>>>>> there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
>>>>>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>>>>>> very
>>>>>>>>>>>> careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
>>>>>>>>>>>> as they
>>>>>>>>>>>> appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people 
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> find
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
>>>>>>>>>>>> feel
>>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>> a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>> daily
>>>>>>>>>>>> basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
>>>>>>>>>>>> found
>>>>>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>>>>>> are a lot of people open to dating a blind person especially
>>>>>>>>>>>> when they
>>>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>>>> confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
>>>>>>>>>>>> sited
>>>>>>>>>>>> person
>>>>>>>>>>>> for 3 years and things are wonderful.
>>>>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>>>>> To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello to everyone,
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with 
>>>>>>>>>>>> online
>>>>>>>>>>>> dating
>>>>>>>>>>>> and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> had
>>>>>>>>>>>> with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
>>>>>>>>>>>> forward to
>>>>>>>>>>>> hearing your stories.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me 
>>>>>>>>>>>> sad.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>>>>>>> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
>>>>>>>>>>>> like a
>>>>>>>>>>>> breeze
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> among flowers.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hellen Keller
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>>>>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all 
>>>>>>>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for 
>>>>>>>>>>>> windows
>>>>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me 
>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all 
>>>>>>>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your
>>>>>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for 
>>>>>>>>>>>> windows
>>>>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me 
>>>>>>>>>>>> at
>>>>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
>>>>>>>>>>>> mail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
>>>>>>>>>>>> 05%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
>>>>>>>>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
>>>>>>>>>>>> se%40gmail..com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>>>>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> 73
>>>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 73
>> kd8qiq
>> jeff crouch
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
> 




From troubleclark at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 15:07:04 2012
From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 11:07:04 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <000b01cd0b5c$3c4a2000$1400ba43@BRIAN>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CxuVvjrN6bqTYiB8FxEkWB=6q2RfF1eWjURmBimukQ_gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000b01cd0b5c$3c4a2000$1400ba43@BRIAN>
Message-ID: <CAB4OJj5eFD4QN3pRAczMbU-esi9Dz3g27-kgBNUeLHRELkOaHw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,
What about working at the International Braille and Technology Center
in Baltimore, Maryland.
Sincerely,
Nathan

On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs accept the IRS
> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state agencies on
> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do an
> investigative article on this topic.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>
> Joshua,
>
> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB. You can go to
> any other IRS class and get the same offered position. WSB just
> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight. The employees
> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the computer
> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes and WSB
> two separate entities in my mind. Even if you wish to count the IRS
> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs that
> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated and a
> client has graduated successfully.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light
>> House.
>>
>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>> decent job.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>> What a mistake!
>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>>>> I had.
>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>
>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>> employment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 26 15:49:08 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 11:49:08 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <000b01cd0b5c$3c4a2000$1400ba43@BRIAN>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC><CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com><CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com><CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CxuVvjrN6bqTYiB8FxEkWB=6q2RfF1eWjURmBimukQ_gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000b01cd0b5c$3c4a2000$1400ba43@BRIAN>
Message-ID: <7E428F26E1BF4A858F32A725CFA17FDC@OwnerPC>

Brian,
it’s a training center that provides independent living and job training. 
They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency. so, it will not 
gaurantee employment.
I say let the programs run. If you don't like it, don't go there, but they 
must  be helping some people improve their lives.

Ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: Brian Hatgelakas
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology

If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs accept the IRS
program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state agencies on
useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do an
investigative article on this topic.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


Joshua,

The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB. You can go to
any other IRS class and get the same offered position. WSB just
happens to be the location of an IRS training sight. The employees
that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the computer
network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes and WSB
two separate entities in my mind. Even if you wish to count the IRS
classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs that
will not provide employment once a program has been terminated and a
client has graduated successfully.

Thanks.

On 25.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light 
> House.
>
> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
> decent job.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>> What a mistake!
>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>>> I had.
>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>> Anyone remember her?
>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Joshua,
>>>>
>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>> employment.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>> career
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>


-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net



_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Mon Mar 26 16:06:34 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:06:34 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC><CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com><CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com><CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CxuVvjrN6bqTYiB8FxEkWB=6q2RfF1eWjURmBimukQ_gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000b01cd0b5c$3c4a2000$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<7E428F26E1BF4A858F32A725CFA17FDC@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <004301cd0b6a$6b297390$1400ba43@BRIAN>

I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol Center's and 
Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it was solely a 
job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of Health And 
business!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


> Brian,
> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job training. 
> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency. so, it will not 
> gaurantee employment.
> I say let the programs run. If you don't like it, don't go there, but they 
> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>
> Ashley
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Brian Hatgelakas
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing 
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs accept the IRS
> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state agencies 
> on
> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do an
> investigative article on this topic.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>
> Joshua,
>
> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB. You can go to
> any other IRS class and get the same offered position. WSB just
> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight. The employees
> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the computer
> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes and WSB
> two separate entities in my mind. Even if you wish to count the IRS
> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs that
> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated and a
> client has graduated successfully.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light 
>> House.
>>
>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>> decent job.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>> What a mistake!
>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>>>> I had.
>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>
>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>> employment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
> 




From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 16:24:37 2012
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:24:37 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <004301cd0b6a$6b297390$1400ba43@BRIAN>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CxuVvjrN6bqTYiB8FxEkWB=6q2RfF1eWjURmBimukQ_gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000b01cd0b5c$3c4a2000$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<7E428F26E1BF4A858F32A725CFA17FDC@OwnerPC>
	<004301cd0b6a$6b297390$1400ba43@BRIAN>
Message-ID: <CAF2O2CwV6y8DcGMUBmWLvEjX=Owta-K2=YaFXAh9ZRDOBDAREQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,

Ash, all training centers are out there to do some good, and I won't
tell you that LWSB doesn't. All I'm saying is that there are better
ones out there that are less expensive that do a much better job at
employment placement and vocational training. And it's pretty hard to
run a good training center with the high turnover they have because
they're unwilling to pay their staff well or invest in their
retension.

Thanks.

On 26.03.2012, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol Center's and
> Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it was solely a
> job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of Health And
> business!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>
>> Brian,
>> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job training.
>> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency. so, it will not
>> gaurantee employment.
>> I say let the programs run. If you don't like it, don't go there, but they
>>
>> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Brian Hatgelakas
>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
>>
>> list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs accept the IRS
>> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state agencies
>> on
>> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do an
>> investigative article on this topic.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>>
>> Joshua,
>>
>> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB. You can go to
>> any other IRS class and get the same offered position. WSB just
>> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight. The employees
>> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the computer
>> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes and WSB
>> two separate entities in my mind. Even if you wish to count the IRS
>> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs that
>> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated and a
>> client has graduated successfully.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light
>>> House.
>>>
>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
>>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>>> decent job.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>>>>> I had.
>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.


From troubleclark at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 16:28:32 2012
From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:28:32 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <004301cd0b6a$6b297390$1400ba43@BRIAN>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CxuVvjrN6bqTYiB8FxEkWB=6q2RfF1eWjURmBimukQ_gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000b01cd0b5c$3c4a2000$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<7E428F26E1BF4A858F32A725CFA17FDC@OwnerPC>
	<004301cd0b6a$6b297390$1400ba43@BRIAN>
Message-ID: <CAB4OJj71W_dHwziND5z0uE6ujF9C4FOaiXwf_cvkGi_db8Q8xQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Brian,
What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job training program?
Sincerely,
Nathan

On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol Center's and
> Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it was solely a
> job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of Health And
> business!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>
>> Brian,
>> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job training.
>> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency. so, it will not
>> gaurantee employment.
>> I say let the programs run. If you don't like it, don't go there, but they
>>
>> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Brian Hatgelakas
>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
>>
>> list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs accept the IRS
>> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state agencies
>> on
>> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do an
>> investigative article on this topic.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>>
>> Joshua,
>>
>> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB. You can go to
>> any other IRS class and get the same offered position. WSB just
>> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight. The employees
>> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the computer
>> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes and WSB
>> two separate entities in my mind. Even if you wish to count the IRS
>> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs that
>> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated and a
>> client has graduated successfully.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light
>>> House.
>>>
>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
>>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>>> decent job.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>>>>> I had.
>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 26 16:29:09 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:29:09 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <004301cd0b6a$6b297390$1400ba43@BRIAN>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC><CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com><CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com><CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CxuVvjrN6bqTYiB8FxEkWB=6q2RfF1eWjURmBimukQ_gw@mail.gmail.com><000b01cd0b5c$3c4a2000$1400ba43@BRIAN><7E428F26E1BF4A858F32A725CFA17FDC@OwnerPC>
	<004301cd0b6a$6b297390$1400ba43@BRIAN>
Message-ID: <3CBD4BA4944A4C0DA550004AA33C4686@OwnerPC>

well its both; and apparently their assistive tech certification is 
undergoing some changes. Maybe its worth checking into for those wanting to 
teach blindness adaptive tech

-----Original Message----- 
From: Brian Hatgelakas
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:06 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology

I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol Center's and
Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it was solely a
job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of Health And
business!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


> Brian,
> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job training. 
> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency. so, it will not 
> gaurantee employment.
> I say let the programs run. If you don't like it, don't go there, but they 
> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>
> Ashley
>
>
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Brian Hatgelakas
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing 
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs accept the IRS
> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state agencies 
> on
> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do an
> investigative article on this topic.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>
> Joshua,
>
> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB. You can go to
> any other IRS class and get the same offered position. WSB just
> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight. The employees
> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the computer
> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes and WSB
> two separate entities in my mind. Even if you wish to count the IRS
> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs that
> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated and a
> client has graduated successfully.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light 
>> House.
>>
>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>> decent job.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>> What a mistake!
>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>>>> I had.
>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>
>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>> employment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>



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From troubleclark at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 16:32:02 2012
From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:32:02 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <CAB4OJj71W_dHwziND5z0uE6ujF9C4FOaiXwf_cvkGi_db8Q8xQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CxuVvjrN6bqTYiB8FxEkWB=6q2RfF1eWjURmBimukQ_gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000b01cd0b5c$3c4a2000$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<7E428F26E1BF4A858F32A725CFA17FDC@OwnerPC>
	<004301cd0b6a$6b297390$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAB4OJj71W_dHwziND5z0uE6ujF9C4FOaiXwf_cvkGi_db8Q8xQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB4OJj6G6mouYPdhqjcJqT2zNoU0TasM6R3e5YrURv1xqYrtKw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Ashley,
What is LWSB's goal as an institution? I have never heard of these
people before this thread started?
Sincerely,
Nathan

On 3/26/12, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Brian,
> What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job training program?
> Sincerely,
> Nathan
>
> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol Center's
>> and
>> Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it was solely
>> a
>> job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of Health And
>> business!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>>
>>> Brian,
>>> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job
>>> training.
>>> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>>> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency. so, it will not
>>> gaurantee employment.
>>> I say let the programs run. If you don't like it, don't go there, but
>>> they
>>>
>>> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Brian Hatgelakas
>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students
>>> mailing
>>>
>>> list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs accept the
>>> IRS
>>> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state
>>> agencies
>>> on
>>> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do an
>>> investigative article on this topic.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>
>>> Joshua,
>>>
>>> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>>> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB. You can go to
>>> any other IRS class and get the same offered position. WSB just
>>> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight. The employees
>>> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the computer
>>> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes and WSB
>>> two separate entities in my mind. Even if you wish to count the IRS
>>> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs that
>>> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated and a
>>> client has graduated successfully.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light
>>>> House.
>>>>
>>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
>>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
>>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
>>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
>>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
>>>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>>>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
>>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>>>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
>>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>>>> decent job.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor,
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> I had.
>>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>>
>


From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 16:39:07 2012
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:39:07 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <CAB4OJj6G6mouYPdhqjcJqT2zNoU0TasM6R3e5YrURv1xqYrtKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CxuVvjrN6bqTYiB8FxEkWB=6q2RfF1eWjURmBimukQ_gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000b01cd0b5c$3c4a2000$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<7E428F26E1BF4A858F32A725CFA17FDC@OwnerPC>
	<004301cd0b6a$6b297390$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAB4OJj71W_dHwziND5z0uE6ujF9C4FOaiXwf_cvkGi_db8Q8xQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB4OJj6G6mouYPdhqjcJqT2zNoU0TasM6R3e5YrURv1xqYrtKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF2O2Cx+x5KqBpJrZ52YMaBV_J5sMe=5rHWoMK5rQy8ARL7K-g@mail.gmail.com>

Check out www.lwsb.org for their mission and all that and that should
get you some idea. Basicly because they get most of their funding from
rehab agencies, their main goal is placing people in employment by
providing them the training.
Thanks.

On 26.03.2012, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Ashley,
> What is LWSB's goal as an institution? I have never heard of these
> people before this thread started?
> Sincerely,
> Nathan
>
> On 3/26/12, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear Brian,
>> What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job training program?
>> Sincerely,
>> Nathan
>>
>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol Center's
>>> and
>>> Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it was solely
>>> a
>>> job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of Health And
>>> business!
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>
>>>> Brian,
>>>> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job
>>>> training.
>>>> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>>>> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency. so, it will not
>>>> gaurantee employment.
>>>> I say let the programs run. If you don't like it, don't go there, but
>>>> they
>>>>
>>>> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Brian Hatgelakas
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>>>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students
>>>> mailing
>>>>
>>>> list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>
>>>> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs accept the
>>>> IRS
>>>> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state
>>>> agencies
>>>> on
>>>> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do an
>>>> investigative article on this topic.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Joshua,
>>>>
>>>> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>>>> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB. You can go to
>>>> any other IRS class and get the same offered position. WSB just
>>>> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight. The employees
>>>> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the computer
>>>> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes and WSB
>>>> two separate entities in my mind. Even if you wish to count the IRS
>>>> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs that
>>>> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated and a
>>>> client has graduated successfully.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light
>>>>> House.
>>>>>
>>>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
>>>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>>>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
>>>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>>>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
>>>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
>>>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>>>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>>>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
>>>>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>>>>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
>>>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>>>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>>>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>>>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>>>>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>>>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>>>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>>>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>>>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>>>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>>>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
>>>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>>>>> decent job.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor,
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> I had.
>>>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.


From troubleclark at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 17:12:13 2012
From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:12:13 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <CAF2O2Cx+x5KqBpJrZ52YMaBV_J5sMe=5rHWoMK5rQy8ARL7K-g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CxuVvjrN6bqTYiB8FxEkWB=6q2RfF1eWjURmBimukQ_gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000b01cd0b5c$3c4a2000$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<7E428F26E1BF4A858F32A725CFA17FDC@OwnerPC>
	<004301cd0b6a$6b297390$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAB4OJj71W_dHwziND5z0uE6ujF9C4FOaiXwf_cvkGi_db8Q8xQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB4OJj6G6mouYPdhqjcJqT2zNoU0TasM6R3e5YrURv1xqYrtKw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2Cx+x5KqBpJrZ52YMaBV_J5sMe=5rHWoMK5rQy8ARL7K-g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAB4OJj7BHg9XCe-Rkp5aku_jRjC_TTyr_Fkc_A6C=NVdtkpWGA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Nimer,
Thank you for the information. I still like the NFB training centers
better but the site seemed to have some interesting material on it.
Sincerely,
Nathan

On 3/26/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Check out www.lwsb.org for their mission and all that and that should
> get you some idea. Basicly because they get most of their funding from
> rehab agencies, their main goal is placing people in employment by
> providing them the training.
> Thanks.
>
> On 26.03.2012, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear Ashley,
>> What is LWSB's goal as an institution? I have never heard of these
>> people before this thread started?
>> Sincerely,
>> Nathan
>>
>> On 3/26/12, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dear Brian,
>>> What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job training
>>> program?
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Nathan
>>>
>>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol Center's
>>>> and
>>>> Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it was solely
>>>> a
>>>> job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of Health And
>>>> business!
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Brian,
>>>>> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job
>>>>> training.
>>>>> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>>>>> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency. so, it will not
>>>>> gaurantee employment.
>>>>> I say let the programs run. If you don't like it, don't go there, but
>>>>> they
>>>>>
>>>>> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>>>>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students
>>>>> mailing
>>>>>
>>>>> list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>
>>>>> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs accept the
>>>>> IRS
>>>>> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state
>>>>> agencies
>>>>> on
>>>>> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do an
>>>>> investigative article on this topic.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>
>>>>> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>>>>> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB. You can go to
>>>>> any other IRS class and get the same offered position. WSB just
>>>>> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight. The employees
>>>>> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the computer
>>>>> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes and WSB
>>>>> two separate entities in my mind. Even if you wish to count the IRS
>>>>> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs that
>>>>> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated and a
>>>>> client has graduated successfully.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light
>>>>>> House.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
>>>>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>>>>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
>>>>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>>>>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
>>>>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
>>>>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>>>>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>>>>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
>>>>>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>>>>>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
>>>>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>>>>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>>>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>>>>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>>>>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>>>>>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>>>>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>>>>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>>>>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>>>>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>>>>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>>>>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
>>>>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>>>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>>>>>> decent job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>>>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>>>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,)
>>>>>>>> program,
>>>>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor,
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> I had.
>>>>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a
>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of
>>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 26 17:51:03 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 13:51:03 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <CAB4OJj6G6mouYPdhqjcJqT2zNoU0TasM6R3e5YrURv1xqYrtKw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC><CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com><CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com><CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CxuVvjrN6bqTYiB8FxEkWB=6q2RfF1eWjURmBimukQ_gw@mail.gmail.com><000b01cd0b5c$3c4a2000$1400ba43@BRIAN><7E428F26E1BF4A858F32A725CFA17FDC@OwnerPC><004301cd0b6a$6b297390$1400ba43@BRIAN><CAB4OJj71W_dHwziND5z0uE6ujF9C4FOaiXwf_cvkGi_db8Q8xQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAB4OJj6G6mouYPdhqjcJqT2zNoU0TasM6R3e5YrURv1xqYrtKw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4D0BA129E8304E5F8D57268A8153394D@OwnerPC>

check online to read. Basically they are a rehab facility

-----Original Message----- 
From: Nathan Clark
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:32 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology

Dear Ashley,
What is LWSB's goal as an institution? I have never heard of these
people before this thread started?
Sincerely,
Nathan

On 3/26/12, Nathan Clark <troubleclark at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Brian,
> What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job training program?
> Sincerely,
> Nathan
>
> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol Center's
>> and
>> Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it was solely
>> a
>> job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of Health And
>> business!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>>
>>> Brian,
>>> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job
>>> training.
>>> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>>> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency. so, it will not
>>> gaurantee employment.
>>> I say let the programs run. If you don't like it, don't go there, but
>>> they
>>>
>>> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Brian Hatgelakas
>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students
>>> mailing
>>>
>>> list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs accept the
>>> IRS
>>> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state
>>> agencies
>>> on
>>> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do an
>>> investigative article on this topic.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>
>>> Joshua,
>>>
>>> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>>> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB. You can go to
>>> any other IRS class and get the same offered position. WSB just
>>> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight. The employees
>>> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the computer
>>> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes and WSB
>>> two separate entities in my mind. Even if you wish to count the IRS
>>> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs that
>>> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated and a
>>> client has graduated successfully.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light
>>>> House.
>>>>
>>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
>>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
>>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
>>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
>>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
>>>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>>>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
>>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>>>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
>>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>>>> decent job.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor,
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> I had.
>>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>>
>

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Mar 26 18:07:18 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:07:18 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] google docs
Message-ID: <6ADB0F68A975485E984425D932310B06@OwnerPC>

Hi all,

Well, I have a hybrid class for english; that means half online work and half in class meetings.
What exactly is google docs and how does it work?
Do you attach documents to it or something?

I realize it is inaccessible to us. How do you get around that? Do you write assignments in word and/or email?
I ask because I encountered google docs in our online class when we were supposed to comment on introductions for articles.
Obviously, I couldn’t read the comments. Jaws only read names of classmates, not text.
So I’ll have to have  a sighted reader and hand in my comments on paper.

And most importantly, has either consumer advocacy group done anything about this lack of accessibility? I fail to see how blind students take online classes with so much inaccesssibility.
PDFS, flash based content, multi media presentations and um now google docs are just a few accessibility challenges in the online class experience.

Ashley

From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com  Mon Mar 26 18:51:09 2012
From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:51:09 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] google docs
In-Reply-To: <6ADB0F68A975485E984425D932310B06@OwnerPC>
References: <6ADB0F68A975485E984425D932310B06@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CA+6VNgNTCncsZJO9e+v=c6jacUspMtjYOqhxnKFWQ0vHCBSaPQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley,

Google Docs is a popular file-sharing tool tied to your Google
account. Once you create a file on Google Docs (Word documents, Excel
spreadsheets, or PowerPoint presentations), you can share it with a
group of people by their email addresses, who can then edit or comment
on your work. You are right that it is  currently inaccessible in
Internet Explorer, although I have heard that it now works with JAWS
in Firefox. I'm also aware that Google is working on improving the
accessibility of their various products, although I'm not sure how
much progress they have made so far.

For the purpose of your class, it might be worthwhile for you to check
if Google Docs indeed works in Firefox, especially considering that
the browser is free and fairly easy to install. If that route does not
work, you may need to talk to your instructor/classmates to work out
an alternative solution. What do you mostly use Google Docs for in
your class? If the work mostly involves peer editing in a small group
(which sounds like what you are describing), perhaps you could talk to
your fellow editing group members to see if you could all email around
your assignments and add comments directly in Microsoft Word. A
similar, but perfectly accessible, alternative to Google Docs is
Dropbox, a desktop client that also allows you to share files with
others, so that might be something worth considering as well. Hope
this helps!

Katie

On 3/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Well, I have a hybrid class for english; that means half online work and
> half in class meetings.
> What exactly is google docs and how does it work?
> Do you attach documents to it or something?
>
> I realize it is inaccessible to us. How do you get around that? Do you write
> assignments in word and/or email?
> I ask because I encountered google docs in our online class when we were
> supposed to comment on introductions for articles.
> Obviously, I couldn’t read the comments. Jaws only read names of classmates,
> not text.
> So I’ll have to have  a sighted reader and hand in my comments on paper.
>
> And most importantly, has either consumer advocacy group done anything about
> this lack of accessibility? I fail to see how blind students take online
> classes with so much inaccesssibility.
> PDFS, flash based content, multi media presentations and um now google docs
> are just a few accessibility challenges in the online class experience.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>


From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Mon Mar 26 21:04:59 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:04:59 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CxuVvjrN6bqTYiB8FxEkWB=6q2RfF1eWjURmBimukQ_gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000b01cd0b5c$3c4a2000$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<7E428F26E1BF4A858F32A725CFA17FDC@OwnerPC>
	<004301cd0b6a$6b297390$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAB4OJj71W_dHwziND5z0uE6ujF9C4FOaiXwf_cvkGi_db8Q8xQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000501cd0b94$1b648410$1400ba43@BRIAN>

I thought that LWSB didn't train people on daily living skills.  That's what 
I said!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:28 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


Dear Brian,
What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job training program?
Sincerely,
Nathan

On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol Center's 
> and
> Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it was solely a
> job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of Health And
> business!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>
>> Brian,
>> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job training.
>> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency. so, it will not
>> gaurantee employment.
>> I say let the programs run. If you don't like it, don't go there, but 
>> they
>>
>> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Brian Hatgelakas
>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students 
>> mailing
>>
>> list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs accept the 
>> IRS
>> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state agencies
>> on
>> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do an
>> investigative article on this topic.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>>
>> Joshua,
>>
>> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB. You can go to
>> any other IRS class and get the same offered position. WSB just
>> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight. The employees
>> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the computer
>> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes and WSB
>> two separate entities in my mind. Even if you wish to count the IRS
>> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs that
>> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated and a
>> client has graduated successfully.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light
>>> House.
>>>
>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
>>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>>> decent job.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>>>>> I had.
>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its 
>>>>>> contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>

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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon Mar 26 23:20:43 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 18:20:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <000501cd0b94$1b648410$1400ba43@BRIAN>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CxuVvjrN6bqTYiB8FxEkWB=6q2RfF1eWjURmBimukQ_gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000b01cd0b5c$3c4a2000$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<7E428F26E1BF4A858F32A725CFA17FDC@OwnerPC>
	<004301cd0b6a$6b297390$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAB4OJj71W_dHwziND5z0uE6ujF9C4FOaiXwf_cvkGi_db8Q8xQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000501cd0b94$1b648410$1400ba43@BRIAN>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOsH0vTQce-5u+SJE6nVa+wjB0zOxdqcTRErtO1sTPMpNQ@mail.gmail.com>

They train people in Daily living skills, because I was forced to take
that TDL, (Techniques of Daily Living,) class!
I hated it, because it was stuff, I already knew, and was doing on my own!
Theresa Bailey taught it, and it was horible!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> I thought that LWSB didn't train people on daily living skills.  That's what
> I said!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>
> Dear Brian,
> What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job training program?
> Sincerely,
> Nathan
>
> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol Center's
>> and
>> Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it was solely a
>> job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of Health And
>> business!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>>
>>> Brian,
>>> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job training.
>>> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>>> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency. so, it will not
>>> gaurantee employment.
>>> I say let the programs run. If you don't like it, don't go there, but
>>> they
>>>
>>> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Brian Hatgelakas
>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students
>>> mailing
>>>
>>> list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs accept the
>>> IRS
>>> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state agencies
>>> on
>>> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do an
>>> investigative article on this topic.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>
>>> Joshua,
>>>
>>> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>>> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB. You can go to
>>> any other IRS class and get the same offered position. WSB just
>>> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight. The employees
>>> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the computer
>>> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes and WSB
>>> two separate entities in my mind. Even if you wish to count the IRS
>>> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs that
>>> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated and a
>>> client has graduated successfully.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light
>>>> House.
>>>>
>>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
>>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
>>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
>>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
>>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
>>>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>>>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
>>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>>>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
>>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>>>> decent job.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>>>>>> I had.
>>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Tue Mar 27 01:29:06 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:29:06 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CxuVvjrN6bqTYiB8FxEkWB=6q2RfF1eWjURmBimukQ_gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000b01cd0b5c$3c4a2000$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<7E428F26E1BF4A858F32A725CFA17FDC@OwnerPC>
	<004301cd0b6a$6b297390$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAB4OJj71W_dHwziND5z0uE6ujF9C4FOaiXwf_cvkGi_db8Q8xQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000501cd0b94$1b648410$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAO83KOsH0vTQce-5u+SJE6nVa+wjB0zOxdqcTRErtO1sTPMpNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002801cd0bb9$00f0d190$1400ba43@BRIAN>

Why would they make you take a TDL class if you are already doing the stuff 
on your own?  If I went to a center for a job placement program I'd show 
them right away and try to opt out of the class.  Couldn't you have done 
this.  Seams like those centers bring us independent people down to the 
lowest level of people that don't know anything about living independently 
at first before you can get to the programs you are actually paying for.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


They train people in Daily living skills, because I was forced to take
that TDL, (Techniques of Daily Living,) class!
I hated it, because it was stuff, I already knew, and was doing on my own!
Theresa Bailey taught it, and it was horible!
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> I thought that LWSB didn't train people on daily living skills.  That's 
> what
> I said!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>
> Dear Brian,
> What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job training program?
> Sincerely,
> Nathan
>
> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol Center's
>> and
>> Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it was solely 
>> a
>> job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of Health And
>> business!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>>
>>> Brian,
>>> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job 
>>> training.
>>> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>>> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency. so, it will not
>>> gaurantee employment.
>>> I say let the programs run. If you don't like it, don't go there, but
>>> they
>>>
>>> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Brian Hatgelakas
>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students
>>> mailing
>>>
>>> list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs accept the
>>> IRS
>>> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state 
>>> agencies
>>> on
>>> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do an
>>> investigative article on this topic.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>
>>> Joshua,
>>>
>>> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>>> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB. You can go to
>>> any other IRS class and get the same offered position. WSB just
>>> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight. The employees
>>> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the computer
>>> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes and WSB
>>> two separate entities in my mind. Even if you wish to count the IRS
>>> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs that
>>> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated and a
>>> client has graduated successfully.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light
>>>> House.
>>>>
>>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
>>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
>>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
>>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
>>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
>>>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>>>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
>>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>>>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
>>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>>>> decent job.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, 
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> I had.
>>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I 
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue Mar 27 01:58:39 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 20:58:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <002801cd0bb9$00f0d190$1400ba43@BRIAN>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CxuVvjrN6bqTYiB8FxEkWB=6q2RfF1eWjURmBimukQ_gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000b01cd0b5c$3c4a2000$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<7E428F26E1BF4A858F32A725CFA17FDC@OwnerPC>
	<004301cd0b6a$6b297390$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAB4OJj71W_dHwziND5z0uE6ujF9C4FOaiXwf_cvkGi_db8Q8xQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000501cd0b94$1b648410$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAO83KOsH0vTQce-5u+SJE6nVa+wjB0zOxdqcTRErtO1sTPMpNQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<002801cd0bb9$00f0d190$1400ba43@BRIAN>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOsX+ZQi0veEXmqURzV8TF9j=-k7E5voM0iw+m=2-ogbSA@mail.gmail.com>

They make you take this 4 week evaluation, before you're introduced to
a program.
This TDL class, was part of the evaluation.
I didn't like the instructor, because I showed her, after 1 week, that
I could do stuff on my own.
She just wanted me to stay there, and help her teach the class.
Evidently, she was running it, like Nimer described the AT classes!
Also, people don't find work, they're forced to work!
For example, let's say you're in Georgia.
There's no AT job, (for example,) in Georgia, so they'll ship you to
Florida, or wherever there's a job opening.
You go, against your will, and determined upon the existence of public
transportation available, some people will never get to return home,
unless a family member, from their home state is able to come, and get
them.
This is what's so bad about the place.
They should train you for programs, that they know, are available in
your home state!
I don't know, if the lady from Georgia, (this actually happened,) and
her program was IRS, was actually able to make it back home!
Is there anyone on this list, that attended LWSB, during October, 2007?
Thanks, Joshua

On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> Why would they make you take a TDL class if you are already doing the stuff
> on your own?  If I went to a center for a job placement program I'd show
> them right away and try to opt out of the class.  Couldn't you have done
> this.  Seams like those centers bring us independent people down to the
> lowest level of people that don't know anything about living independently
> at first before you can get to the programs you are actually paying for.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 7:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>
> They train people in Daily living skills, because I was forced to take
> that TDL, (Techniques of Daily Living,) class!
> I hated it, because it was stuff, I already knew, and was doing on my own!
> Theresa Bailey taught it, and it was horible!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> I thought that LWSB didn't train people on daily living skills.  That's
>> what
>> I said!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:28 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>>
>> Dear Brian,
>> What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job training program?
>> Sincerely,
>> Nathan
>>
>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol Center's
>>> and
>>> Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it was solely
>>> a
>>> job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of Health And
>>> business!
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>
>>>> Brian,
>>>> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job
>>>> training.
>>>> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>>>> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency. so, it will not
>>>> gaurantee employment.
>>>> I say let the programs run. If you don't like it, don't go there, but
>>>> they
>>>>
>>>> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Brian Hatgelakas
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>>>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students
>>>> mailing
>>>>
>>>> list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>
>>>> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs accept the
>>>> IRS
>>>> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state
>>>> agencies
>>>> on
>>>> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do an
>>>> investigative article on this topic.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Joshua,
>>>>
>>>> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>>>> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB. You can go to
>>>> any other IRS class and get the same offered position. WSB just
>>>> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight. The employees
>>>> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the computer
>>>> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes and WSB
>>>> two separate entities in my mind. Even if you wish to count the IRS
>>>> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs that
>>>> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated and a
>>>> client has graduated successfully.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light
>>>>> House.
>>>>>
>>>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
>>>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>>>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
>>>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>>>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
>>>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
>>>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>>>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>>>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
>>>>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>>>>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
>>>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>>>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>>>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>>>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>>>>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>>>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>>>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>>>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>>>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>>>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>>>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
>>>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>>>>> decent job.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor,
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> I had.
>>>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 27 04:09:26 2012
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 00:09:26 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOsX+ZQi0veEXmqURzV8TF9j=-k7E5voM0iw+m=2-ogbSA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CxuVvjrN6bqTYiB8FxEkWB=6q2RfF1eWjURmBimukQ_gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000b01cd0b5c$3c4a2000$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<7E428F26E1BF4A858F32A725CFA17FDC@OwnerPC>
	<004301cd0b6a$6b297390$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAB4OJj71W_dHwziND5z0uE6ujF9C4FOaiXwf_cvkGi_db8Q8xQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000501cd0b94$1b648410$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAO83KOsH0vTQce-5u+SJE6nVa+wjB0zOxdqcTRErtO1sTPMpNQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<002801cd0bb9$00f0d190$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAO83KOsX+ZQi0veEXmqURzV8TF9j=-k7E5voM0iw+m=2-ogbSA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF2O2CwS6U0yGY2tb4w965iNVUnpinGOHMBD0jUAKYCuNqkLUg@mail.gmail.com>

Joshua and all,

I said I would not jump on this thread but I do have to defend them a
bit. First, I fully agree that, if you're entering the professional
workplace, you should be required to demonstrate independence with
daily living tasks. When I attended, I heard about the four-week eval
and thought it was a great idea. I also said that I had been living on
my own and doing tasks for a while, and therefore four weeks was a bit
too long. So I was asked to demonstrate that I could read/write
braille, do basic business math, prepare some sort of a meal, pack a
suitcase and make a bed, and wash some dishes or some other cleaning
thing. Also ironing and sewing on a button. I did this in under a
week. The next week I was allowed to have the period as a "study"
period and I used it to explore Little Rock, to do some extra cooking,
or to just catch some sleep. There are many people that think they are
good at independent living and yet the only standards they are good at
is the "blind standards". What I mean by that is your parents telling
you good job and another blind person telling you good job because
they can't see that you're rocking and nearly sticking your head in
the oven while you're cooking or that you're about to slice your
fingers off isn't the same as true independence and looking
presentable for an employer. So, I support the whole idea of the
evaluation and think that because of client complaints the eval
process is being taken less seriously and more and more people slip
through without the necessary skills. The TDL instructor you had
Joshua is no longer working there. They have a high turnover.

The other mischaracterization is that you are "forced to work". When
applying to enter into an IRS program you are made fully aware that
you may not be working in your home state. This all depends on
positions available around the country. You are given a list of cities
and then are asked to pick the top three. So, presumably after doing
your research on transportation, accommodations and such you will pick
three cities that you wouldn't mind moving to. At that point they look
at all the cities the clients pick and divide them amongst the
clients. There is also an interview process with the IRS that helps
match someone for a particular location as well. If you are not there
to find work anywhere it can be found at or if you do not wish to
work, you do not have to attend that or any other center. Nobody
forces you to relocate. And not all states have openings at any
particular point in time. Take Austin, TX for instance. It is s
popular city, and because it is so popular amongst IRS clients the
past couple of times they have had classes Austin wasn't on the list
of cities.

OK, I've rambled on enough for one night.

Later.

On 26.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> They make you take this 4 week evaluation, before you're introduced to
> a program.
> This TDL class, was part of the evaluation.
> I didn't like the instructor, because I showed her, after 1 week, that
> I could do stuff on my own.
> She just wanted me to stay there, and help her teach the class.
> Evidently, she was running it, like Nimer described the AT classes!
> Also, people don't find work, they're forced to work!
> For example, let's say you're in Georgia.
> There's no AT job, (for example,) in Georgia, so they'll ship you to
> Florida, or wherever there's a job opening.
> You go, against your will, and determined upon the existence of public
> transportation available, some people will never get to return home,
> unless a family member, from their home state is able to come, and get
> them.
> This is what's so bad about the place.
> They should train you for programs, that they know, are available in
> your home state!
> I don't know, if the lady from Georgia, (this actually happened,) and
> her program was IRS, was actually able to make it back home!
> Is there anyone on this list, that attended LWSB, during October, 2007?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Why would they make you take a TDL class if you are already doing the
>> stuff
>> on your own?  If I went to a center for a job placement program I'd show
>> them right away and try to opt out of the class.  Couldn't you have done
>> this.  Seams like those centers bring us independent people down to the
>> lowest level of people that don't know anything about living independently
>> at first before you can get to the programs you are actually paying for.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 7:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>>
>> They train people in Daily living skills, because I was forced to take
>> that TDL, (Techniques of Daily Living,) class!
>> I hated it, because it was stuff, I already knew, and was doing on my own!
>> Theresa Bailey taught it, and it was horible!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> I thought that LWSB didn't train people on daily living skills.  That's
>>> what
>>> I said!
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:28 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Brian,
>>> What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job training
>>> program?
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Nathan
>>>
>>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol Center's
>>>> and
>>>> Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it was solely
>>>> a
>>>> job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of Health And
>>>> business!
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Brian,
>>>>> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job
>>>>> training.
>>>>> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>>>>> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency. so, it will not
>>>>> gaurantee employment.
>>>>> I say let the programs run. If you don't like it, don't go there, but
>>>>> they
>>>>>
>>>>> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>>>>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students
>>>>> mailing
>>>>>
>>>>> list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>
>>>>> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs accept the
>>>>> IRS
>>>>> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state
>>>>> agencies
>>>>> on
>>>>> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do an
>>>>> investigative article on this topic.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>
>>>>> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>>>>> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB. You can go to
>>>>> any other IRS class and get the same offered position. WSB just
>>>>> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight. The employees
>>>>> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the computer
>>>>> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes and WSB
>>>>> two separate entities in my mind. Even if you wish to count the IRS
>>>>> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs that
>>>>> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated and a
>>>>> client has graduated successfully.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light
>>>>>> House.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
>>>>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>>>>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
>>>>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>>>>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
>>>>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
>>>>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>>>>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>>>>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
>>>>>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>>>>>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
>>>>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>>>>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>>>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>>>>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>>>>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>>>>>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>>>>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>>>>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>>>>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>>>>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>>>>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>>>>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
>>>>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>>>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>>>>>> decent job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>>>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>>>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,)
>>>>>>>> program,
>>>>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor,
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> I had.
>>>>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a
>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of
>>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
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You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
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To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.


From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Tue Mar 27 13:55:31 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 09:55:31 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CxuVvjrN6bqTYiB8FxEkWB=6q2RfF1eWjURmBimukQ_gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000b01cd0b5c$3c4a2000$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<7E428F26E1BF4A858F32A725CFA17FDC@OwnerPC>
	<004301cd0b6a$6b297390$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAB4OJj71W_dHwziND5z0uE6ujF9C4FOaiXwf_cvkGi_db8Q8xQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000501cd0b94$1b648410$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAO83KOsH0vTQce-5u+SJE6nVa+wjB0zOxdqcTRErtO1sTPMpNQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<002801cd0bb9$00f0d190$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAO83KOsX+ZQi0veEXmqURzV8TF9j=-k7E5voM0iw+m=2-ogbSA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwS6U0yGY2tb4w965iNVUnpinGOHMBD0jUAKYCuNqkLUg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000301cd0c21$467d4000$1400ba43@BRIAN>

Couldn't a high graded  report from an actual training center's Independent 
Living Program opt an LSWB client out of the four week evaluation?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


Joshua and all,

I said I would not jump on this thread but I do have to defend them a
bit. First, I fully agree that, if you're entering the professional
workplace, you should be required to demonstrate independence with
daily living tasks. When I attended, I heard about the four-week eval
and thought it was a great idea. I also said that I had been living on
my own and doing tasks for a while, and therefore four weeks was a bit
too long. So I was asked to demonstrate that I could read/write
braille, do basic business math, prepare some sort of a meal, pack a
suitcase and make a bed, and wash some dishes or some other cleaning
thing. Also ironing and sewing on a button. I did this in under a
week. The next week I was allowed to have the period as a "study"
period and I used it to explore Little Rock, to do some extra cooking,
or to just catch some sleep. There are many people that think they are
good at independent living and yet the only standards they are good at
is the "blind standards". What I mean by that is your parents telling
you good job and another blind person telling you good job because
they can't see that you're rocking and nearly sticking your head in
the oven while you're cooking or that you're about to slice your
fingers off isn't the same as true independence and looking
presentable for an employer. So, I support the whole idea of the
evaluation and think that because of client complaints the eval
process is being taken less seriously and more and more people slip
through without the necessary skills. The TDL instructor you had
Joshua is no longer working there. They have a high turnover.

The other mischaracterization is that you are "forced to work". When
applying to enter into an IRS program you are made fully aware that
you may not be working in your home state. This all depends on
positions available around the country. You are given a list of cities
and then are asked to pick the top three. So, presumably after doing
your research on transportation, accommodations and such you will pick
three cities that you wouldn't mind moving to. At that point they look
at all the cities the clients pick and divide them amongst the
clients. There is also an interview process with the IRS that helps
match someone for a particular location as well. If you are not there
to find work anywhere it can be found at or if you do not wish to
work, you do not have to attend that or any other center. Nobody
forces you to relocate. And not all states have openings at any
particular point in time. Take Austin, TX for instance. It is s
popular city, and because it is so popular amongst IRS clients the
past couple of times they have had classes Austin wasn't on the list
of cities.

OK, I've rambled on enough for one night.

Later.

On 26.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> They make you take this 4 week evaluation, before you're introduced to
> a program.
> This TDL class, was part of the evaluation.
> I didn't like the instructor, because I showed her, after 1 week, that
> I could do stuff on my own.
> She just wanted me to stay there, and help her teach the class.
> Evidently, she was running it, like Nimer described the AT classes!
> Also, people don't find work, they're forced to work!
> For example, let's say you're in Georgia.
> There's no AT job, (for example,) in Georgia, so they'll ship you to
> Florida, or wherever there's a job opening.
> You go, against your will, and determined upon the existence of public
> transportation available, some people will never get to return home,
> unless a family member, from their home state is able to come, and get
> them.
> This is what's so bad about the place.
> They should train you for programs, that they know, are available in
> your home state!
> I don't know, if the lady from Georgia, (this actually happened,) and
> her program was IRS, was actually able to make it back home!
> Is there anyone on this list, that attended LWSB, during October, 2007?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Why would they make you take a TDL class if you are already doing the
>> stuff
>> on your own?  If I went to a center for a job placement program I'd show
>> them right away and try to opt out of the class.  Couldn't you have done
>> this.  Seams like those centers bring us independent people down to the
>> lowest level of people that don't know anything about living 
>> independently
>> at first before you can get to the programs you are actually paying for.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 7:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>>
>> They train people in Daily living skills, because I was forced to take
>> that TDL, (Techniques of Daily Living,) class!
>> I hated it, because it was stuff, I already knew, and was doing on my 
>> own!
>> Theresa Bailey taught it, and it was horible!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> I thought that LWSB didn't train people on daily living skills.  That's
>>> what
>>> I said!
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:28 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Brian,
>>> What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job training
>>> program?
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Nathan
>>>
>>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>> I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol Center's
>>>> and
>>>> Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it was 
>>>> solely
>>>> a
>>>> job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of Health And
>>>> business!
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Brian,
>>>>> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job
>>>>> training.
>>>>> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>>>>> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency. so, it will not
>>>>> gaurantee employment.
>>>>> I say let the programs run. If you don't like it, don't go there, but
>>>>> they
>>>>>
>>>>> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>>>>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students
>>>>> mailing
>>>>>
>>>>> list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>
>>>>> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs accept the
>>>>> IRS
>>>>> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state
>>>>> agencies
>>>>> on
>>>>> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do an
>>>>> investigative article on this topic.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>
>>>>> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>>>>> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB. You can go to
>>>>> any other IRS class and get the same offered position. WSB just
>>>>> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight. The employees
>>>>> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the computer
>>>>> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes and WSB
>>>>> two separate entities in my mind. Even if you wish to count the IRS
>>>>> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs that
>>>>> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated and a
>>>>> client has graduated successfully.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light
>>>>>> House.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set 
>>>>>> amount
>>>>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>>>>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an 
>>>>>> ic³
>>>>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>>>>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my 
>>>>>> request
>>>>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom 
>>>>>> Scientific
>>>>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>>>>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>>>>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>>>>>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old 
>>>>>> program.
>>>>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>>>>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>>>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>>>>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>>>>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>>>>>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>>>>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>>>>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>>>>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>>>>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>>>>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>>>>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>>>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>>>>>> decent job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>>>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>>>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,)
>>>>>>>> program,
>>>>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor,
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> I had.
>>>>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily 
>>>>>>>>> under
>>>>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
>>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a
>>>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of
>>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school 
>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for 
>>>>>>>>>>> massage
>>>>>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your 
>>>>>>>>> machine
>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
>>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its 
>>>>>> contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 27 18:24:00 2012
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:24:00 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Needing the Koran for a Research Paper
Message-ID: <CABORmNtW09_4YxOModySptKUC7QzRS_kfGmi-KWWN9nepmHrEQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,
I'm working on a history paper that I need to cite the Koran for, but
I can't find the full text of the Koran in daisy format anywhere. I'd
much rather it in daisy format than anything, so I can search for
specific words/phrases even at home where I don't have interent. I
found an online Koran, but not a daisy book. Does anyone know of one,
and if not, why isn't it out there? There's plenty of versions of the
Bible in daisy format, so why not the Koran?

Hoping to find it,
Jewel Shuping
herekittykat2 at gmail.com


From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com  Tue Mar 27 18:40:30 2012
From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 11:40:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [nabs-l] Needing the Koran for a Research Paper
In-Reply-To: <CABORmNtW09_4YxOModySptKUC7QzRS_kfGmi-KWWN9nepmHrEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1332873630.92458.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I think bookshare should have it or the NLS should have it in braille.

Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
Hellen Keller


--- On Tue, 3/27/12, Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Needing the Koran for a Research Paper
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date: Tuesday, March 27, 2012, 1:24 PM
> Dear all,
> I'm working on a history paper that I need to cite the Koran
> for, but
> I can't find the full text of the Koran in daisy format
> anywhere. I'd
> much rather it in daisy format than anything, so I can
> search for
> specific words/phrases even at home where I don't have
> interent. I
> found an online Koran, but not a daisy book. Does anyone
> know of one,
> and if not, why isn't it out there? There's plenty of
> versions of the
> Bible in daisy format, so why not the Koran?
> 
> Hoping to find it,
> Jewel Shuping
> herekittykat2 at gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com
> 


From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Tue Mar 27 22:20:11 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 15:20:11 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC><CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com><CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com><CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com><CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com><CCF0175A474D409387558D4E79ABC7F3@OwnerPC><CAO83KOve08HWyM2Ln-eDWKy8U5ERiyfYX_6D8LQEXFF9LqTcYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=w=+nwhVo3t20TaOtF=uV-Skksi7-Q0zWG1rp3JucVzqA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1D5BAE9428884BC898B567EFF8563BD1@stanford.edu>

That is not true. You should get opinions from more than one person before 
believing stuff like that.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


Ah, ok, I see. Thanks for clearing that up.

On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> My idea, is that Jaws will always be outdated, due to the rise of NVDA.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/25/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> What is the jaws certification? Why do you say its not worth a lot?
>> I believe there are some certifications for teaching assistive tech out
>> there.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Nimer M. Jaber, IC³
>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:51 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light
>> House.
>>
>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>> decent job.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>> What a mistake!
>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>>>> I had.
>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>
>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>> employment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From leanicole1988 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 27 22:54:48 2012
From: leanicole1988 at gmail.com (Lea williams)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 18:54:48 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Needing the Koran for a Research Paper
In-Reply-To: <CABORmNtW09_4YxOModySptKUC7QzRS_kfGmi-KWWN9nepmHrEQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABORmNtW09_4YxOModySptKUC7QzRS_kfGmi-KWWN9nepmHrEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD0KW=bzGNc8irVCC84ZBK7z2u6d=4fT-zuyVZAbXxva0uURdA@mail.gmail.com>

There is this book...
The Koran
Dawood, N. J. Read by Hugh Carney. Reading time 18 hours 11 minutes.
Religion
Translated by N. J. Dawood, this earliest work of classical Arabic is
the sacred scripture of Islam as revealed to the Prophet Mohammed by
the Angel Gabriel. 1966.
Download The Koran, DB7789

I found it on the bard website.


On 3/27/12, Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear all,
> I'm working on a history paper that I need to cite the Koran for, but
> I can't find the full text of the Koran in daisy format anywhere. I'd
> much rather it in daisy format than anything, so I can search for
> specific words/phrases even at home where I don't have interent. I
> found an online Koran, but not a daisy book. Does anyone know of one,
> and if not, why isn't it out there? There's plenty of versions of the
> Bible in daisy format, so why not the Koran?
>
> Hoping to find it,
> Jewel Shuping
> herekittykat2 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leanicole1988%40gmail.com
>


-- 

Lea Williams

Phone;
704-732-4470
Skipe;
Lea.williams738
Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
Twitter
http://twitter.com/LeaNicole1988


From leanicole1988 at gmail.com  Tue Mar 27 22:59:11 2012
From: leanicole1988 at gmail.com (Lea williams)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 18:59:11 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Needing the Koran for a Research Paper
In-Reply-To: <CAD0KW=bzGNc8irVCC84ZBK7z2u6d=4fT-zuyVZAbXxva0uURdA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABORmNtW09_4YxOModySptKUC7QzRS_kfGmi-KWWN9nepmHrEQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD0KW=bzGNc8irVCC84ZBK7z2u6d=4fT-zuyVZAbXxva0uURdA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD0KW=ZHrdYChBp9gZLnttMj7OpJiJ3kPVcjV3X56-ZsAekJ1Q@mail.gmail.com>

This book is audio, did you want text? You said to surtch for words
and stuff... not sure how you would do that in audio. Try bookshare
maybe if so?


On 3/27/12, Lea williams <leanicole1988 at gmail.com> wrote:
> There is this book...
> The Koran
> Dawood, N. J. Read by Hugh Carney. Reading time 18 hours 11 minutes.
> Religion
> Translated by N. J. Dawood, this earliest work of classical Arabic is
> the sacred scripture of Islam as revealed to the Prophet Mohammed by
> the Angel Gabriel. 1966.
> Download The Koran, DB7789
>
> I found it on the bard website.
>
>
> On 3/27/12, Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> I'm working on a history paper that I need to cite the Koran for, but
>> I can't find the full text of the Koran in daisy format anywhere. I'd
>> much rather it in daisy format than anything, so I can search for
>> specific words/phrases even at home where I don't have interent. I
>> found an online Koran, but not a daisy book. Does anyone know of one,
>> and if not, why isn't it out there? There's plenty of versions of the
>> Bible in daisy format, so why not the Koran?
>>
>> Hoping to find it,
>> Jewel Shuping
>> herekittykat2 at gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leanicole1988%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Lea Williams
>
> Phone;
> 704-732-4470
> Skipe;
> Lea.williams738
> Facebook
> http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
> Twitter
> http://twitter.com/LeaNicole1988
>


-- 

Lea Williams

Phone;
704-732-4470
Skipe;
Lea.williams738
Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
Twitter
http://twitter.com/LeaNicole1988


From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 28 00:22:54 2012
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 20:22:54 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <1D5BAE9428884BC898B567EFF8563BD1@stanford.edu>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CCF0175A474D409387558D4E79ABC7F3@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOve08HWyM2Ln-eDWKy8U5ERiyfYX_6D8LQEXFF9LqTcYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=w=+nwhVo3t20TaOtF=uV-Skksi7-Q0zWG1rp3JucVzqA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1D5BAE9428884BC898B567EFF8563BD1@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <CAF2O2CwP25DTXMzPtvcDY622wDfvLhc6_4YygGhxz773iinYPQ@mail.gmail.com>

Brian,

What I mean is that clients aren't required to do any sort of rec
activities, they're not required to go shopping, they're not required
to hang around the dorms, etc etc. There are activities that are run
by WSB volunteers, however if you do not wish to go or can't afford to
you aren't required to.

Thanks.

On 27.03.2012, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> That is not true. You should get opinions from more than one person before
> believing stuff like that.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>
> Ah, ok, I see. Thanks for clearing that up.
>
> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> My idea, is that Jaws will always be outdated, due to the rise of NVDA.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> What is the jaws certification? Why do you say its not worth a lot?
>>> I believe there are some certifications for teaching assistive tech out
>>> there.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Nimer M. Jaber, IC³
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:51 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light
>>> House.
>>>
>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
>>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>>> decent job.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>>>>> I had.
>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.


From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 28 00:23:40 2012
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 20:23:40 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <CAF2O2CwP25DTXMzPtvcDY622wDfvLhc6_4YygGhxz773iinYPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CCF0175A474D409387558D4E79ABC7F3@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOve08HWyM2Ln-eDWKy8U5ERiyfYX_6D8LQEXFF9LqTcYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=w=+nwhVo3t20TaOtF=uV-Skksi7-Q0zWG1rp3JucVzqA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1D5BAE9428884BC898B567EFF8563BD1@stanford.edu>
	<CAF2O2CwP25DTXMzPtvcDY622wDfvLhc6_4YygGhxz773iinYPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF2O2Czm1mM3AnvQAgnyCVAqL0=PHzuZ6H4QbNe+Hzp5AE_02g@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, and I agree with Nicole.

On 27.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Brian,
>
> What I mean is that clients aren't required to do any sort of rec
> activities, they're not required to go shopping, they're not required
> to hang around the dorms, etc etc. There are activities that are run
> by WSB volunteers, however if you do not wish to go or can't afford to
> you aren't required to.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 27.03.2012, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
> wrote:
>> That is not true. You should get opinions from more than one person
>> before
>> believing stuff like that.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:33 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>>
>> Ah, ok, I see. Thanks for clearing that up.
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> My idea, is that Jaws will always be outdated, due to the rise of NVDA.
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/25/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> What is the jaws certification? Why do you say its not worth a lot?
>>>> I believe there are some certifications for teaching assistive tech out
>>>> there.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Nimer M. Jaber, IC³
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:51 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>
>>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light
>>>> House.
>>>>
>>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
>>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
>>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
>>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
>>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
>>>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>>>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
>>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>>>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
>>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>>>> decent job.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor,
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> I had.
>>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>


-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.


From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Wed Mar 28 02:03:52 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:03:52 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
References: <B02AB2DD085F4A4891AFD826069DD8EE@kaylaPC>
	<CAO83KOtF4=vEVP33Rk=NcpRauPVC_zv6v+D6yZa4PPo5TRqxuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CzMtsK4UZPfVg-o2gWuWsaqM_qnMebBPB5H_PbBbgniZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuaFddEKJ0jqRB1KjDeQjN5YE_vO507nBh270f_DJchBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=y_g7pOuh=_EpDY1KUx3uo_yaEUgw65Ghee4+hYrpT4kQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF2O2CwUCaxhvwhGXn5AgDKEV-MxOaYLRUxuo9Vs+ZsmoNGo0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CCF0175A474D409387558D4E79ABC7F3@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOve08HWyM2Ln-eDWKy8U5ERiyfYX_6D8LQEXFF9LqTcYA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAC7+D=w=+nwhVo3t20TaOtF=uV-Skksi7-Q0zWG1rp3JucVzqA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1D5BAE9428884BC898B567EFF8563BD1@stanford.edu>
	<CAF2O2CwP25DTXMzPtvcDY622wDfvLhc6_4YygGhxz773iinYPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001c01cd0c87$06748430$1400ba43@BRIAN>

Good so you can go around Little Rock exploring that's pretty awsome!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nimer M. Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 8:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


Brian,

What I mean is that clients aren't required to do any sort of rec
activities, they're not required to go shopping, they're not required
to hang around the dorms, etc etc. There are activities that are run
by WSB volunteers, however if you do not wish to go or can't afford to
you aren't required to.

Thanks.

On 27.03.2012, Nicole B. Torcolini at Home <ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
> That is not true. You should get opinions from more than one person before
> believing stuff like that.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Desiree Oudinot" <turtlepower17 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>
> Ah, ok, I see. Thanks for clearing that up.
>
> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> My idea, is that Jaws will always be outdated, due to the rise of NVDA.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/25/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> What is the jaws certification? Why do you say its not worth a lot?
>>> I believe there are some certifications for teaching assistive tech out
>>> there.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Nimer M. Jaber, IC³
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:51 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler Light
>>> House.
>>>
>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set amount
>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience which is
>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive an ic³
>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, and
>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my request
>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom Scientific
>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it places
>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get training
>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions of the
>>> screen reader. For all of this, the training supposedly takes nine
>>> months although I finished up in under four. This was the old program.
>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on teaching
>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc. You don't receive
>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you graduated
>>> to be a certification. This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>> school. Technically I'm sure they have to have some accreditation or
>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if they
>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so. And
>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad. They have an
>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched from
>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch twice a
>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a half
>>> decent job.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it. I wouldn't
>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put it
>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>
>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) program,
>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the instructor, that
>>>>> I had.
>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>> several reasons. First, the program is being modified heavily under
>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I would
>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out. Second, there are quite a few
>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of its
>>>>>> reputation in the past. And, as mentioned, it is not a school which
>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question. What kind of school would you go to for a
>>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for massage
>>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology. Thanks.
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its 
>>>>>> contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine 
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net 




From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Mar 28 02:35:57 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 21:35:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Web Accessibility Project
Message-ID: <auto-000054538599@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>To: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>Subject: Web Accessibility Project
>Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 16:26:50 -0700
>
>Dave,
>
>     Can you please circulate the following email as you find appropriate?
>
>Thanks,
>Nicole
>
>     This coming quarter, I will be doing a project in web 
> accessibility in which I will need volunteers first for giving 
> input on their experiences and then for testing a product that I 
> build. Please let me know if you are interested.
>
>Nicole

From jty727 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 28 02:46:57 2012
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 22:46:57 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Web Accessibility Project
In-Reply-To: <auto-000054538599@mailfront3.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000054538599@mailfront3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s793oo=EpNsjTX162cYJYAEkPmyDpkd9R83HN-RNdvS9w@mail.gmail.com>

Sounds like an interesting project.  I'm interested in assisting.

On 3/27/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>
>>From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>>To: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>>Subject: Web Accessibility Project
>>Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 16:26:50 -0700
>>
>>Dave,
>>
>>     Can you please circulate the following email as you find appropriate?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Nicole
>>
>>     This coming quarter, I will be doing a project in web
>> accessibility in which I will need volunteers first for giving
>> input on their experiences and then for testing a product that I
>> build. Please let me know if you are interested.
>>
>>Nicole
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Wed Mar 28 02:46:10 2012
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 20:46:10 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] females from blind inc please write off list this is
	important
Message-ID: <4f727ba1.e531b60a.2c0f.6d4a@mx.google.com>

Hi, all.
	I would like all the females who graduated BLIND Inc. 
between 2008 and 2010 to please contact me regarding a male 
alumnus from that school.  I wil not explain further 
details.  Please email me at thebluesisloose at gmail.com.
Sincerely,
Beth


From portillo.jim at gmail.com  Wed Mar 28 21:25:09 2012
From: portillo.jim at gmail.com (Jim Portillo)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:25:09 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
Message-ID: <4f7381c3.e215440a.5e4e.ffffe4b0@mx.google.com>

Hello everyone,

 

I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone can give me
the name and tell me how to do it.

 

When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who also has a
facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to their page
appears as well?  Is this called Tagging, or does that only happen in
photos?

 

I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some activity,
they can mention others and have a link to their page.  If anyone knows, let
me know as well.

 

Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site only?

Thanks!

Jim

 


From sjhhirst at gmail.com  Wed Mar 28 21:36:38 2012
From: sjhhirst at gmail.com (Stephanie DeLuca)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:36:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
In-Reply-To: <4f7381c3.e215440a.5e4e.ffffe4b0@mx.google.com>
References: <4f7381c3.e215440a.5e4e.ffffe4b0@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <E2070599-9B38-4043-9343-68DBF697E468@gmail.com>

I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or something, just write @ (the "at" symbol) and type their name.  A list of your Facebook friends should pop up, from which you can select who you want to tag.  Hope this helps,
Stephanie

On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone can give me
> the name and tell me how to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who also has a
> facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to their page
> appears as well?  Is this called Tagging, or does that only happen in
> photos?
> 
> 
> 
> I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some activity,
> they can mention others and have a link to their page.  If anyone knows, let
> me know as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site only?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com



From hope.paulos at gmail.com  Wed Mar 28 21:40:52 2012
From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:40:52 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
References: <4f7381c3.e215440a.5e4e.ffffe4b0@mx.google.com>
	<E2070599-9B38-4043-9343-68DBF697E468@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9FD14F60E8114BDB805F99FD6C40730A@Espy>

Can you do it on the mobile site, or can it only be done with the regular 
facebook site?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephanie DeLuca" <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question


>I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or something, just 
>write @ (the "at" symbol) and type their name.  A list of your Facebook 
>friends should pop up, from which you can select who you want to tag.  Hope 
>this helps,
> Stephanie
>
> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:
>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone can give 
>> me
>> the name and tell me how to do it.
>>
>>
>>
>> When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who also has a
>> facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to their 
>> page
>> appears as well?  Is this called Tagging, or does that only happen in
>> photos?
>>
>>
>>
>> I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some 
>> activity,
>> they can mention others and have a link to their page.  If anyone knows, 
>> let
>> me know as well.
>>
>>
>>
>> Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site only?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com 



From portillo.jim at gmail.com  Wed Mar 28 21:42:50 2012
From: portillo.jim at gmail.com (Jim Portillo)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:42:50 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
In-Reply-To: <E2070599-9B38-4043-9343-68DBF697E468@gmail.com>
References: <4f7381c3.e215440a.5e4e.ffffe4b0@mx.google.com>
	<E2070599-9B38-4043-9343-68DBF697E468@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4f7385ea.c10f440a.4780.ffffe8f1@mx.google.com>

Is this only on the regular site, or can it work on the mobile site as well?

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Stephanie DeLuca
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 2:37 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question

I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or something, just write
@ (the "at" symbol) and type their name.  A list of your Facebook friends
should pop up, from which you can select who you want to tag.  Hope this
helps, Stephanie

On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone can 
> give me the name and tell me how to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who also has 
> a facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to 
> their page appears as well?  Is this called Tagging, or does that only 
> happen in photos?
> 
> 
> 
> I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some 
> activity, they can mention others and have a link to their page.  If 
> anyone knows, let me know as well.
> 
> 
> 
> Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site only?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Jim
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.c
> om


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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From sjhhirst at gmail.com  Wed Mar 28 21:46:50 2012
From: sjhhirst at gmail.com (Stephanie DeLuca)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:46:50 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
In-Reply-To: <9FD14F60E8114BDB805F99FD6C40730A@Espy>
References: <4f7381c3.e215440a.5e4e.ffffe4b0@mx.google.com>
	<E2070599-9B38-4043-9343-68DBF697E468@gmail.com>
	<9FD14F60E8114BDB805F99FD6C40730A@Espy>
Message-ID: <FA632E34-4566-4266-BAC8-A53CD8B99093@gmail.com>

I think so….on my android phone, if I am typing a comment and then press the menu/settings button on the phone, and there is an option for "people".  It pulls up your friends list, and I select from that.

On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:

> Can you do it on the mobile site, or can it only be done with the regular facebook site?
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca" <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
> 
> 
>> I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or something, just write @ (the "at" symbol) and type their name.  A list of your Facebook friends should pop up, from which you can select who you want to tag.  Hope this helps,
>> Stephanie
>> 
>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:
>> 
>>> Hello everyone,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone can give me
>>> the name and tell me how to do it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who also has a
>>> facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to their page
>>> appears as well?  Is this called Tagging, or does that only happen in
>>> photos?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some activity,
>>> they can mention others and have a link to their page.  If anyone knows, let
>>> me know as well.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site only?
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From jeffanel at gmail.com  Wed Mar 28 21:54:29 2012
From: jeffanel at gmail.com (jeff crouch)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:54:29 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
In-Reply-To: <FA632E34-4566-4266-BAC8-A53CD8B99093@gmail.com>
References: <4f7381c3.e215440a.5e4e.ffffe4b0@mx.google.com>
	<E2070599-9B38-4043-9343-68DBF697E468@gmail.com>
	<9FD14F60E8114BDB805F99FD6C40730A@Espy>
	<FA632E34-4566-4266-BAC8-A53CD8B99093@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+N-3k2sF=3hNMoOZ_CO-waJJSTg-wKD1yKL6zkdgcO1Sv=XMg@mail.gmail.com>

it only works on the main facebook site.

with love
Jeff Crouch

On 3/28/12, Stephanie DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think so….on my android phone, if I am typing a comment and then press the
> menu/settings button on the phone, and there is an option for "people".  It
> pulls up your friends list, and I select from that.
>
> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>
>> Can you do it on the mobile site, or can it only be done with the regular
>> facebook site?
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca" <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:36 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
>>
>>
>>> I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or something, just
>>> write @ (the "at" symbol) and type their name.  A list of your Facebook
>>> friends should pop up, from which you can select who you want to tag.
>>> Hope this helps,
>>> Stephanie
>>>
>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone can
>>>> give me
>>>> the name and tell me how to do it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who also has a
>>>> facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to their
>>>> page
>>>> appears as well?  Is this called Tagging, or does that only happen in
>>>> photos?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some
>>>> activity,
>>>> they can mention others and have a link to their page.  If anyone knows,
>>>> let
>>>> me know as well.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site only?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
73
kd8qiq
jeff crouch


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 28 22:01:04 2012
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 15:01:04 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
In-Reply-To: <CA+N-3k2sF=3hNMoOZ_CO-waJJSTg-wKD1yKL6zkdgcO1Sv=XMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f7381c3.e215440a.5e4e.ffffe4b0@mx.google.com>
	<E2070599-9B38-4043-9343-68DBF697E468@gmail.com>
	<9FD14F60E8114BDB805F99FD6C40730A@Espy>
	<FA632E34-4566-4266-BAC8-A53CD8B99093@gmail.com>
	<CA+N-3k2sF=3hNMoOZ_CO-waJJSTg-wKD1yKL6zkdgcO1Sv=XMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJOM=0Vazw21mLFUaPwTBG93PCAfgqnbNtY3=ut1dASeVC93Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hmmm... any way to do this on iPhone?

On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
> it only works on the main facebook site.
>
> with love
> Jeff Crouch
>
> On 3/28/12, Stephanie DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I think so….on my android phone, if I am typing a comment and then press
>> the
>> menu/settings button on the phone, and there is an option for "people".
>> It
>> pulls up your friends list, and I select from that.
>>
>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>>
>>> Can you do it on the mobile site, or can it only be done with the regular
>>> facebook site?
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca"
>>> <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:36 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
>>>
>>>
>>>> I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or something, just
>>>> write @ (the "at" symbol) and type their name.  A list of your Facebook
>>>> friends should pop up, from which you can select who you want to tag.
>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>> Stephanie
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone can
>>>>> give me
>>>>> the name and tell me how to do it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who also has
>>>>> a
>>>>> facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to their
>>>>> page
>>>>> appears as well?  Is this called Tagging, or does that only happen in
>>>>> photos?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some
>>>>> activity,
>>>>> they can mention others and have a link to their page.  If anyone
>>>>> knows,
>>>>> let
>>>>> me know as well.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site only?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> 73
> kd8qiq
> jeff crouch
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Sent via gmail.com
Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
Skype: joshgregory93
 twitter: JoshG93


From jeffanel at gmail.com  Wed Mar 28 22:08:13 2012
From: jeffanel at gmail.com (jeff crouch)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 18:08:13 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
In-Reply-To: <CAMJOM=0Vazw21mLFUaPwTBG93PCAfgqnbNtY3=ut1dASeVC93Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f7381c3.e215440a.5e4e.ffffe4b0@mx.google.com>
	<E2070599-9B38-4043-9343-68DBF697E468@gmail.com>
	<9FD14F60E8114BDB805F99FD6C40730A@Espy>
	<FA632E34-4566-4266-BAC8-A53CD8B99093@gmail.com>
	<CA+N-3k2sF=3hNMoOZ_CO-waJJSTg-wKD1yKL6zkdgcO1Sv=XMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJOM=0Vazw21mLFUaPwTBG93PCAfgqnbNtY3=ut1dASeVC93Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+N-3k3MvmpokLJxRiWB6_3x3ZSw5j5NYMhrgKfz7Fg0ZJWZZQ@mail.gmail.com>

i don't know really how to do it, just that it does not work on the
moble site. now for the phones, but not for computers using
m.facebook.com

On 3/28/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hmmm... any way to do this on iPhone?
>
> On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
>> it only works on the main facebook site.
>>
>> with love
>> Jeff Crouch
>>
>> On 3/28/12, Stephanie DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I think so….on my android phone, if I am typing a comment and then press
>>> the
>>> menu/settings button on the phone, and there is an option for "people".
>>> It
>>> pulls up your friends list, and I select from that.
>>>
>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>>>
>>>> Can you do it on the mobile site, or can it only be done with the
>>>> regular
>>>> facebook site?
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca"
>>>> <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:36 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or something, just
>>>>> write @ (the "at" symbol) and type their name.  A list of your Facebook
>>>>> friends should pop up, from which you can select who you want to tag.
>>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone can
>>>>>> give me
>>>>>> the name and tell me how to do it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who also has
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to their
>>>>>> page
>>>>>> appears as well?  Is this called Tagging, or does that only happen in
>>>>>> photos?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some
>>>>>> activity,
>>>>>> they can mention others and have a link to their page.  If anyone
>>>>>> knows,
>>>>>> let
>>>>>> me know as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site only?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 73
>> kd8qiq
>> jeff crouch
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Sent via gmail.com
> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
> Skype: joshgregory93
>  twitter: JoshG93
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
73
kd8qiq
jeff crouch


From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Wed Mar 28 22:09:33 2012
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:09:33 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
Message-ID: <4f738c4e.48033c0a.1867.ffffe1c1@mx.google.com>

That's what I'd like to know.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:40:52 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question

Can you do it on the mobile site, or can it only be done with the 
regular
facebook site?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephanie DeLuca" <sjhhirst at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:36 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question


I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or something, 
just
write @ (the "at" symbol) and type their name.  A list of your 
Facebook
friends should pop up, from which you can select who you want to 
tag.  Hope
this helps,
 Stephanie

 On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:

 Hello everyone,



 I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone 
can give
 me
 the name and tell me how to do it.



 When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who 
also has a
 facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to 
their
 page
 appears as well?  Is this called Tagging, or does that only 
happen in
 photos?



 I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some
 activity,
 they can mention others and have a link to their page.  If 
anyone knows,
 let
 me know as well.



 Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site 
only?

 Thanks!

 Jim



 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gm
ail.com


 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%4
0gmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
se%40gmail.com


From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Wed Mar 28 22:09:32 2012
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 16:09:32 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
Message-ID: <4f738c4c.48033c0a.1867.ffffe1be@mx.google.com>

This is called tagging, like you said in your post.  Jim, I have 
no clue how to do it, but to me, it only appears in photos on the 
mobile site which is accessible.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Portillo" <portillo.jim at gmail.com
To: "Jim Portillo" <portillo.jim at gmail.com
Date sent: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 14:25:09 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question

Hello everyone,



I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone 
can give me
the name and tell me how to do it.



When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who 
also has a
facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to 
their page
appears as well?  Is this called Tagging, or does that only 
happen in
photos?



I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some 
activity,
they can mention others and have a link to their page.  If anyone 
knows, let
me know as well.



Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site 
only?

Thanks!

Jim



_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
se%40gmail.com


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Wed Mar 28 22:11:51 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:11:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
In-Reply-To: <CA+N-3k3MvmpokLJxRiWB6_3x3ZSw5j5NYMhrgKfz7Fg0ZJWZZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f7381c3.e215440a.5e4e.ffffe4b0@mx.google.com>
	<E2070599-9B38-4043-9343-68DBF697E468@gmail.com>
	<9FD14F60E8114BDB805F99FD6C40730A@Espy>
	<FA632E34-4566-4266-BAC8-A53CD8B99093@gmail.com>
	<CA+N-3k2sF=3hNMoOZ_CO-waJJSTg-wKD1yKL6zkdgcO1Sv=XMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJOM=0Vazw21mLFUaPwTBG93PCAfgqnbNtY3=ut1dASeVC93Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+N-3k3MvmpokLJxRiWB6_3x3ZSw5j5NYMhrgKfz7Fg0ZJWZZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOse_VpOcBUnLMZQS2QNtTJUnMBvBUMb0ayHEgqXLERzfw@mail.gmail.com>

I experimented with Facebook, last year.
I didn't like it, because I had problems, adding people, and sending messages.
Also, when I was in high school, I experimented with Myspace, and,
(IMO,) Myspace was more accessible than Facebook.
I've deleted both accounts, (BTW.)
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
> i don't know really how to do it, just that it does not work on the
> moble site. now for the phones, but not for computers using
> m.facebook.com
>
> On 3/28/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hmmm... any way to do this on iPhone?
>>
>> On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> it only works on the main facebook site.
>>>
>>> with love
>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>
>>> On 3/28/12, Stephanie DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I think so….on my android phone, if I am typing a comment and then press
>>>> the
>>>> menu/settings button on the phone, and there is an option for "people".
>>>> It
>>>> pulls up your friends list, and I select from that.
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Can you do it on the mobile site, or can it only be done with the
>>>>> regular
>>>>> facebook site?
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca"
>>>>> <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:36 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or something, just
>>>>>> write @ (the "at" symbol) and type their name.  A list of your
>>>>>> Facebook
>>>>>> friends should pop up, from which you can select who you want to tag.
>>>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone can
>>>>>>> give me
>>>>>>> the name and tell me how to do it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who also
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to their
>>>>>>> page
>>>>>>> appears as well?  Is this called Tagging, or does that only happen in
>>>>>>> photos?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some
>>>>>>> activity,
>>>>>>> they can mention others and have a link to their page.  If anyone
>>>>>>> knows,
>>>>>>> let
>>>>>>> me know as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site only?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 73
>>> kd8qiq
>>> jeff crouch
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via gmail.com
>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>> Skype: joshgregory93
>>  twitter: JoshG93
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> 73
> kd8qiq
> jeff crouch
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From pgradioman at hotmail.com  Wed Mar 28 23:32:44 2012
From: pgradioman at hotmail.com (Preston Gaylor)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 18:32:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOse_VpOcBUnLMZQS2QNtTJUnMBvBUMb0ayHEgqXLERzfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f7381c3.e215440a.5e4e.ffffe4b0@mx.google.com>,
	<E2070599-9B38-4043-9343-68DBF697E468@gmail.com>,
	<9FD14F60E8114BDB805F99FD6C40730A@Espy>,
	<FA632E34-4566-4266-BAC8-A53CD8B99093@gmail.com>,
	<CA+N-3k2sF=3hNMoOZ_CO-waJJSTg-wKD1yKL6zkdgcO1Sv=XMg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<CAMJOM=0Vazw21mLFUaPwTBG93PCAfgqnbNtY3=ut1dASeVC93Q@mail.gmail.com>,
	<CA+N-3k3MvmpokLJxRiWB6_3x3ZSw5j5NYMhrgKfz7Fg0ZJWZZQ@mail.gmail.com>,
	<CAO83KOse_VpOcBUnLMZQS2QNtTJUnMBvBUMb0ayHEgqXLERzfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BLU158-W520F7E8A099FF3609B3B5CCB4B0@phx.gbl>


Hi, I have a question about tagging people in post on facebook. If I type in the @ sign before I type their name, is there a space required after the at sign? Also do i need to press enter after I type their name? Thanks for your help, Preston Gaylor
 

> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:11:51 -0500
> From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
> 
> I experimented with Facebook, last year.
> I didn't like it, because I had problems, adding people, and sending messages.
> Also, when I was in high school, I experimented with Myspace, and,
> (IMO,) Myspace was more accessible than Facebook.
> I've deleted both accounts, (BTW.)
> Blessings, Joshua
> 
> On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
> > i don't know really how to do it, just that it does not work on the
> > moble site. now for the phones, but not for computers using
> > m.facebook.com
> >
> > On 3/28/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hmmm... any way to do this on iPhone?
> >>
> >> On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> it only works on the main facebook site.
> >>>
> >>> with love
> >>> Jeff Crouch
> >>>
> >>> On 3/28/12, Stephanie DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> I think so….on my android phone, if I am typing a comment and then press
> >>>> the
> >>>> menu/settings button on the phone, and there is an option for "people".
> >>>> It
> >>>> pulls up your friends list, and I select from that.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Can you do it on the mobile site, or can it only be done with the
> >>>>> regular
> >>>>> facebook site?
> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca"
> >>>>> <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
> >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:36 PM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or something, just
> >>>>>> write @ (the "at" symbol) and type their name. A list of your
> >>>>>> Facebook
> >>>>>> friends should pop up, from which you can select who you want to tag.
> >>>>>> Hope this helps,
> >>>>>> Stephanie
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hello everyone,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone can
> >>>>>>> give me
> >>>>>>> the name and tell me how to do it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who also
> >>>>>>> has
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>> facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to their
> >>>>>>> page
> >>>>>>> appears as well? Is this called Tagging, or does that only happen in
> >>>>>>> photos?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some
> >>>>>>> activity,
> >>>>>>> they can mention others and have a link to their page. If anyone
> >>>>>>> knows,
> >>>>>>> let
> >>>>>>> me know as well.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site only?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Jim
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> nabs-l:
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> 73
> >>> kd8qiq
> >>> jeff crouch
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sent via gmail.com
> >> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
> >> Skype: joshgregory93
> >> twitter: JoshG93
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > 73
> > kd8qiq
> > jeff crouch
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com
 		 	   		  

From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Wed Mar 28 23:05:22 2012
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 20:05:22 -0300
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
In-Reply-To: <BLU158-W520F7E8A099FF3609B3B5CCB4B0@phx.gbl>
References: <4f7381c3.e215440a.5e4e.ffffe4b0@mx.google.com>,
	<E2070599-9B38-4043-9343-68DBF697E468@gmail.com>,
	<9FD14F60E8114BDB805F99FD6C40730A@Espy>,
	<FA632E34-4566-4266-BAC8-A53CD8B99093@gmail.com>,
	<CA+N-3k2sF=3hNMoOZ_CO-waJJSTg-wKD1yKL6zkdgcO1Sv=XMg@mail.gmail.com>,
	<CAMJOM=0Vazw21mLFUaPwTBG93PCAfgqnbNtY3=ut1dASeVC93Q@mail.gmail.com>,
	<CA+N-3k3MvmpokLJxRiWB6_3x3ZSw5j5NYMhrgKfz7Fg0ZJWZZQ@mail.gmail.com>,
	<CAO83KOse_VpOcBUnLMZQS2QNtTJUnMBvBUMb0ayHEgqXLERzfw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BLU158-W520F7E8A099FF3609B3B5CCB4B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <8160CE9F910B40E2ADE06219769BC1EA@userPC>

Hi no you don't put a space after the at sign and before the name but yes
you need to press enter after the name.
Rania,

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Preston Gaylor
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 8:33 PM
To: Nabs-l
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question


Hi, I have a question about tagging people in post on facebook. If I type in
the @ sign before I type their name, is there a space required after the at
sign? Also do i need to press enter after I type their name? Thanks for your
help, Preston Gaylor
 

> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:11:51 -0500
> From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
> 
> I experimented with Facebook, last year.
> I didn't like it, because I had problems, adding people, and sending
messages.
> Also, when I was in high school, I experimented with Myspace, and,
> (IMO,) Myspace was more accessible than Facebook.
> I've deleted both accounts, (BTW.)
> Blessings, Joshua
> 
> On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
> > i don't know really how to do it, just that it does not work on the
> > moble site. now for the phones, but not for computers using
> > m.facebook.com
> >
> > On 3/28/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hmmm... any way to do this on iPhone?
> >>
> >> On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> it only works on the main facebook site.
> >>>
> >>> with love
> >>> Jeff Crouch
> >>>
> >>> On 3/28/12, Stephanie DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> I think so..on my android phone, if I am typing a comment and then
press
> >>>> the
> >>>> menu/settings button on the phone, and there is an option for
"people".
> >>>> It
> >>>> pulls up your friends list, and I select from that.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Can you do it on the mobile site, or can it only be done with the
> >>>>> regular
> >>>>> facebook site?
> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca"
> >>>>> <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
> >>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> >>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:36 PM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or something,
just
> >>>>>> write @ (the "at" symbol) and type their name. A list of your
> >>>>>> Facebook
> >>>>>> friends should pop up, from which you can select who you want to
tag.
> >>>>>> Hope this helps,
> >>>>>> Stephanie
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hello everyone,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone
can
> >>>>>>> give me
> >>>>>>> the name and tell me how to do it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who also
> >>>>>>> has
> >>>>>>> a
> >>>>>>> facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to
their
> >>>>>>> page
> >>>>>>> appears as well? Is this called Tagging, or does that only happen
in
> >>>>>>> photos?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some
> >>>>>>> activity,
> >>>>>>> they can mention others and have a link to their page. If anyone
> >>>>>>> knows,
> >>>>>>> let
> >>>>>>> me know as well.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site
only?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Thanks!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Jim
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
> >>>>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
> >>>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
> >>>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>>> nabs-l:
> >>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> 73
> >>> kd8qiq
> >>> jeff crouch
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> nabs-l mailing list
> >>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >>> nabs-l:
> >>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sent via gmail.com
> >> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
> >> Skype: joshgregory93
> >> twitter: JoshG93
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > 73
> > kd8qiq
> > jeff crouch
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p
ccua.edu
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com
 		 	   		  
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Mar 29 01:34:13 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:34:13 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
Message-ID: <4f73bc29.4ad4e00a.6227.ffffc47f@mx.google.com>

Hi=20Brian,

What=20station?=20Maybe=20I=20can=20listen=20to=20your=20show=20online!

Chris=20Nusbaum

Sent=20from=20my=20BrailleNote

=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20"Brian=20Hatgelakas"=20<brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"=20
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20sent:=20Sun,=2025=20Mar=202012=2022:23:54=20-0400
Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Dating=20&=20Sighted-Blind-Low=20Vision

Josh,

I=20do=20part=20time=20at=20a=20commercial=20station=20already!
-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20"Joshua=20Lester"=20<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent:=20Sunday,=20March=2025,=202012=209:37=20PM
Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Dating=20&=20Sighted-Blind-Low=20Vision


=20Hi,=20Brian.
=20I=20know=20plenty=20of=20blind=20women,=20who=20are=20endependent!
=20Didn't=20you=20say=20in=20a=20previous=20post,=20that=20you=20were=20an=
=20aspiring=20DJ?
=20Why=20not=20try=20to=20apply=20to=20work=20for=20this=20station?
=20http://www.wics.cc
=20The=20owner=20of=20this=20station,=20is=20an=20endependent=20blind=20wom=
an!
=20Please=20try=20to=20show=20more=20compassion!
=20Thanks,=20Desiree,=20for=20the=20great=20post!
=20I'm=20in=20agreement=20with=20you!
=20Blessings,=20Joshua

=20On=203/25/12,=20Brian=20Hatgelakas=20<brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>=20
wrote:
=20In=20my=20experiences=20with=20visually=20handicapped=20women=20most=20o=
f=20them=20
I've
=20encountered=20that=20are=20at=20my=20age=20level=20are=20uneducated=20an=
d=20still=20
living
=20under
=20their=20parents=20roof.=20=20My=20rule=20is=20that=20any=20woman=20I=20d=
ate=20should=20be=20
on=20the
=20same
=20level=20both=20chronologically=20and=20mentally=20as=20I=20am.=20=20I've=
=20graduated=20
college
=20and
=20have=20been=20on=20my=20own=20since=202003.=20=20I=20am=20very=20indepen=
dent.
=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
=20From:=20"jeff=20crouch"=20<jeffanel at gmail.com
=20To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"
=20<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20Sent:=20Sunday,=20March=2025,=202012=205:24=20PM
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Dating=20&=20Sighted-Blind-Low=20Vision


=20Yeah,=20I=20would=20like=20to=20try=20dating=20a=20VI=20Girl,=20just=20t=
o=20see=20what=20it=20
would
=20be=20like,=20But=20unfornchely=20their=20is=20no=20one=20hear=20in=20fli=
nt.

=20On=203/25/12,=20Brian=20Hatgelakas=20<brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>=20
wrote:
=20Me=20neither.=20=20But=20I=20am=20just=20warning=20Jeff=20to=20be=20care=
ful.=20=20Back=20
then=20when
=20I
=20went=20on=20dates=20I=20enjoyed=20myself=20very=20much.=20=20But=20I=20n=
oticed=20during=20
the=20High
=20School=20years=20most=20girls=20weren't=20as=20accepting=20of=20me=20and=
=20I=20had=20
more=20luck
=20with
=20dating=20during=20college=20than=20high=20school.=20=20But=20again=20dur=
ing=20the=20
few=20times
=20I
=20dated=20as=20a=20teen=20I=20had=20fun.
=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
=20From:=20"Ignasi=20Cambra"=20<ignasicambra at gmail.com
=20To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"
=20<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20Sent:=20Sunday,=20March=2025,=202012=209:43=20AM
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Dating=20&=20Sighted-Blind-Low=20Vision


I=20don't=20see=20anything=20wrong=20with=20dating=20during=20high=20school=
.=20=20It=20
was
fun!!!

=20Sent=20from=20my=20iPhone

=20On=20Mar=2025,=202012,=20at=207:17=20AM,=20Brian=20Hatgelakas
=20<brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>=20wrote:

=20 at Jeff=20my=20advice=20to=20you=20is=20wait=20until=20college=20to=20star=
t=20dating.=20=20I=20
did
=20this
=20and=20am=20very=20happy=20I=20did.=20=20=20=20By=20doing=20this=20the=20=
women=20by=20the=20time=20
you
=20enter

=20college=20will=20be=20much=20more=20mature=20and=20accepting=20of=20your=
=20blindness
=20situation.=20=20Right=20now=20as=20a=20teenager=20make=20friends=20and=20=
don't=20get=20
caught
=20up
=20in=20something=20you=20know=20won't=20last.=20=20Because=20at=20your=20a=
ge=20its=20
mostly
=20figuring=20out=20who=20you=20are=20and=20that's=20the=20same=20for=20gir=
ls.=20=20Good=20
luck=20in
=20your=20studies=20and=20don't=20worry=20as=20you=20get=20older=20your=20c=
hance=20to=20
date
=20will
=20be

=20hear=20before=20you=20know=20it.
=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----=20From:=20"jeff=20crouch"=20
<jeffanel at gmail.com
=20To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"
=20<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20Sent:=20Saturday,=20March=2024,=202012=207:11=20PM
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Dating=20&=20Sighted-Blind-Low=20Vision


=20ah,=20it=20must=20be=20nice=20being=20of=20legal=20age,=20but=20i=20am=20=
15,=20and=20I=20would
=20like
=20to=20be=20in=20a=20releasonship,=20but=20the=20practicablity=20of=20this=
=20happening=20
is
=20slim,=20with=20school,=20and=20extra=20crickler=20activatives=20things=20=
would=20
not
=20really=20work=20out,=20but=20as=20i=20said,=20it=20would=20be=20nice.

=20in=20a=20onist=20way=20of=20putting=20it,=20from=20a=20adault=20point=20=
of=20view,=20it=20
would
=20be
=20pointless=20for=20me=20to=20get=20in=20a=20releationship=20because=20it=
=20is=20just=20
over
=20reactive=20hormons=20that=20would=20get=20in=20the=20way=20and=20then=20=
after=20a=20wile
=20things=20would=20simmer=20down,=20and=20hear=20that=20person=20go's,=20o=
n=20the=20hunt
=20again.

=20this=20is=20my=20point=20of=20view

=20but=20i=20think=20you=20would=20have=20good=20luck=20in=20the=20online=20=
dating=20world,=20
but
=20as=20one=20of=20the=20posters=20said,=20becareful,=20i=20know=20from=20e=
xperence,=20my
=20friend=20did=20that=20online=20stuff,=20and=20then=20well=20to=20putt=20=
it=20i=20have=20
not
=20seen
=20her=20for=20quite=20some=20years,=20she=20went=20missing,=20so=20be=20ca=
reful

=20don't=20mean=20to=20sound=20like=20a=20dad,=20lol

=20every=20one=20have=20a=20good=20day,=20and=20if=20anyone=20needs=20to=20=
contact=20me,=20
you
=20can
=20email=20me=20at
=20jeffanel at gmail.com
=20or
=20kd8qiq at arrl.net

=20with=20love=20and=20respect
=20Jeff=20Crouch

=20On=203/24/12,=20Amy=20Sabo=20<amylsabo at comcast.net>=20wrote:
=20Hello=20doug,

=20Congratulations=20on=20your=20upcoming=20nuptials=20with=20you=20and=20m=
ellissa.
=20I'm
=20sooo
=20happy=20for=20the=20both=20of=20you!=20Here's=20wishing=20you=20both=20g=
ood=20health=20
and
=20happiness.

=20Take=20care=20and,=20I=20will=20talk=20to=20you=20soon.



=20Hugs,
=20amy

=20-----Original=20Message-----
=20From:=20nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org=20
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
=20On
=20Behalf
=20Of=20Doug=20Oliver
=20Sent:=20Thursday,=20March=2022,=202012=208:05=20PM
=20To:=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Dating=20&=20Sighted-Blind-Low=20Vision

=20we=20are.

=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
=20From:=20"Beth"=20<thebluesisloose at gmail.com
=20To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"
=20<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20Sent:=20Thursday,=20March=2022,=202012=208:28=20PM
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Dating=20&=20Sighted-Blind-Low=20Vision


=20Doug,=20good=20luck=20with=20your=20fiancee.=20=20I=20hope=20the=20two=20=
of=20you=20are
=20still=20working.
=20Beth

=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
=20From:=20"Doug=20Oliver"=20<oliver.doug1 at gmail.com
=20To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"
=20<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20Date=20sent:=20Thu,=2022=20Mar=202012=2019:54:51=20-0500
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Dating=20&=20Sighted-Blind-Low=20Vision

=20I'm=20gonna=20way=20in=20on=20this=20topic.
=20My=20fiancee=20is=20actually=20sited=20and=20I'm=20blind,=20she's=20been=
=20around
=20blind=20people
=20growing=20up,=20so=20she's=20very=20much=20accustomed=20to=20dating=20a=
=20blind
=20person.
=20We've=20met=20in=20person=20twice=20and=20it's=20been=20great.
=20Take=20care,
=20Doug

=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
=20From:=20"Ashley"=20<cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
=20To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"
=20<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20Sent:=20Thursday,=20March=2022,=202012=207:42=20PM
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Dating=20&=20Sighted-Blind-Low=20Vision


=20Hello=20all,
=20Like=20some=20of=20the=20people=20who=20have=20posted=20already,=20I=20h=
ave=20had=20my
=20own
=20experiences=20with=20dating,=20as=20well=20as=20simply=20meeting=20peopl=
e=20
online.
=20As=20a
=20matter=20of=20fact,=20my=20current=20boyfriend=20is=20someone=20I=20met=
=20online,=20
and
=20he
=20is=20blind=20as=20well.=20=20We=20have=20been=20dating=20a=20little=20ov=
er=20a=20year=20now,
=20and=20I
=20have=20also=20had=20the=20chance=20to=20meet=20him=20in=20person.=20=20I=
=20can=20say=20that
=20some=20of
=20what=20we've=20been=20through,=20especially=20when=20we=20met,=20was=20b=
oth=20good
=20and
=20bad,=20and=20even=20though=20he=20is=20blind,=20it=20was=20a=20little=20=
more=20
disastrous
=20because=20of=20his=20family=20who=20are=20sighted.=20=20Well=20the=20fir=
st=20time=20we
=20actually
=20got=20to=20"see"=20each=20other=20was=20through=20a=20webcam,=20and=20bo=
th=20families
=20were
=20present,=20not=20only=20for=20descriptive=20purposes=20but=20also=20beca=
use=20of=20
us
=20being=20long=20distance,=20and=20it=20was=20the=20only=20way=20the=20two=
=20families
=20could
=20meet.=20=20About=206=20months=20later=20I=20got=20to=20visit=20him=20in=
=20person,=20and=20
that
=20was
=20a=20little=20weird=20because=20he=20lives=20in=20another=20country,=20an=
d=20a=20part=20
of
=20another=20culture,=20and=20that=20in=20itself=20brings=20its=20own=20bar=
riers.=20=20I
=20actually=20stayed=20at=20his=20house=20with=20his=20family,=20and=20I=20=
imagine=20it
=20was
=20hard=20on=20them=20because=20they've=20never=20dealt=20with=20another=20=
blind
=20person
=20besides=20him,=20and=20he=20is=20not=20as=20independent=20as=20I=20am.=20=
=20I=20have=20also
=20met
=20sighted=20people=20online,=20but=20I=20did=20not=20meet=20them=20through=
=20dating
=20sites.=20=20I
=20met=20them=20through=20pages=20we=20both=20visit,=20(blogs,=20etc),=20an=
d=20in=20my
=20opinion,
=20that's=20better=20because=20you're=20actually=20meeting=20people=20you=20=
have
=20things
=20in=20common=20with,=20regardless=20of=20whether=20you=20date=20or=20not,=
=20and=20like
=20most
=20people=20have=20said=20already,=20one=20of=20the=20main=20things=20to=20=
consider=20
when
=20dating=20someone,=20blind=20or=20sighted,=20is=20what=20kinds=20of=20thi=
ngs=20you
=20share=20in
=20common=20with=20the=20other=20person.=20=20I=20personally=20have=20never=
=20dated=20a
=20sighted
=20person,=20but=20I=20have=20made=20some=20interesting=20friends=20online=
=20who=20are
=20sighted.=20=20Some=20know=20I'm=20blind,=20and=20some=20do=20not,=20but=
=20not=20because=20
I
=20haven't=20wanted=20to=20tell=20them.=20=20I=20don't=20meet=20these=20peo=
ple=20in=20
person
=20mainly=20because=20most=20of=20them=20are=20not=20from=20the=20U.S.=20=20=
and=20therefore
=20it
=20really=20hasn't=20come=20up.=20=20Besides,=20I'm=20not=20as=20close=20to=
=20them,=20and=20
we
=20mainly=20talk=20about=20music,=20which=20is=20what=20i=20have=20in=20com=
mon=20with=20
most
=20of
=20these=20people=20I=20meet=20anyway.=20=20I=20have=20also=20met=20blind=20=
friends=20
online,
=20and
=20basically=20the=20same=20goes=20for=20them.=20=20So=20as=20most=20people=
=20have=20
already
=20said,
=20I=20don't=20think=20it's=20that=20much=20different=20dating=20a=20sighte=
d=20person
=20from=20a
=20blind=20person.=20=20A=20blind=20person=20might=20be=20a=20little=20more=
=20
understanding
=20considering=20they=20go=20through=20some=20of=20the=20same=20things.=20=
=20But=20on=20the
=20other
=20side,=20that=20may=20not=20always=20be=20the=20case,=20if=20the=20person=
=20isn't
=20completely
=20adjusted=20to=20their=20blindness,=20or=20they=20have=20been=20with=20th=
eir=20family
=20their
=20entire=20life,=20and=20don't=20really=20understand=20the=20independence=
=20issue
=20such
=20as=20in=20my=20case.=20=20So=20I=20think=20dating=20both=20blind=20and=20=
sighted=20people
=20can
=20have=20their=20ups=20and=20downs,=20and=20it's=20just=20a=20matter=20of=
=20knowing=20how
=20to
=20handle=20each=20situation=20as=20it=20comes.=20=20Good=20luck.


=20On=203/22/12,=20Arielle=20Silverman=20<arielle71 at gmail.com>=20wrote:
=20Hi=20all,
=20I=20have=20a=20little=20experience=20with=20online=20dating,=20but=20not=
=20much.=20=20I
=20was=20on
=20a=20dating=20site=20for=20a=20year=20or=20so=20and=20chatted=20with=20a=
=20few=20guys=20but
=20didn't
=20find=20anyone=20I=20actually=20wanted=20to=20meet=20in=20person.=20=20I=
=20have=20a=20lot=20
of
=20friends=20(sighted=20and=20blind)=20who=20do=20online=20dating=20and=20I=
've=20heard
=20the
=20whole=20gamut,=20from=20happily-ever-after=20marriages=20to=20disastrous=

=20first
=20dates=20and=20a=20few=20people=20who=20walked=20away=20after=20my=20frie=
nd's
=20blindness=20was
=20revealed=20online.=20=20It=20really=20doesn't=20hurt=20to=20try=20it.=20=
=20If=20you=20do
=20find
=20someone=20you=20like=20and=20want=20to=20meet,=20it's=20best=20to=20meet=
=20them=20in=20a
=20public
=20place.=20=20But=20there's=20nothing=20dangerous=20about=20just=20putting=
=20a
=20profile=20up
=20and=20seeing=20what=20happens.
=20Some=20dating=20sites=20are=20free=20and=20others=20charge=20a=20fee=20f=
or=20joining.
=20Interestingly,=20the=20site=20I=20used=20was=20free,=20and=20when=20I=20=
was=20visiting
=20my
=20sister=20and=20her=20roommate=20they=20were=20checking=20out=20one=20of=
=20the=20paid
=20sites.
=20I=20told=20them=20about=20the=20free=20site=20I=20was=20on=20and=20they=
=20looked=20at=20it
=20and
=20said=20they=20thought=20the=20guys=20on=20the=20free=20site=20were=20a=20=
lot=20more
=20attractive
=20and=20appealing=20than=20the=20guys=20on=20the=20paid=20one.=20=20So=20i=
t's=20possible
=20the
=20people=20you=20might=20meet=20on=20a=20free=20site=20are=20less=20"despe=
rate"=20and
=20hence
=20are=20better=20catches.
=20I'm=20sure=20there's=20a=20lot=20of=20debate=20about=20when=20to=20revea=
l=20blindness
=20during
=20an=20online=20dating=20encounter.=20=20Some=20people=20put=20it=20in=20t=
heir
=20profiles,
=20others=20wait=20until=20the=20first=20meeting=20and=20still=20others=20r=
eveal=20it
=20at=20some
=20point=20in=20the=20middle.=20=20I'd=20tend=20to=20treat=20it=20like=20a=
=20job=20interview
=20and
=20reveal=20blindness=20after=20I've=20connected=20with=20someone=20online=
=20but
=20before
=20we=20meet=20in=20person=20so=20they=20aren't=20totally=20shocked=20or=20=
freaked=20out
=20when
=20they=20see=20me.=20=20Unfortunately=20rejections=20due=20to=20blindness=
=20can
=20happen=20at
=20any=20point=20in=20the=20process.=20=20You'll=20have=20to=20decide=20whe=
ther=20you
=20would
=20prefer=20to=20take=20that=20risk=20earlier=20on=20or=20to=20give=20them=
=20a=20chance=20to
=20get=20to
=20know=20you=20before=20they=20learn=20about=20your=20blindness.
=20Regarding=20dating=20blind=20vs.=20=20sighted=20people:=20Like=20many=20=
of=20us=20I
=20have=20done
=20both.=20=20I=20never=20consciously=20decided=20that=20I=20wanted=20to=20=
date=20a=20blind
=20person
=20or=20a=20sighted=20person,=20and=20I=20would=20not=20recommend=20that=20=
line=20of
=20thinking.
=20I=20simply=20dated=20guys=20with=20whom=20I=20felt=20a=20connection=20an=
d=20who=20felt
=20the
=20same=20way=20toward=20me,=20regardless=20of=20whether=20or=20not=20they=
=20were
=20blind.=20=20I
=20will=20say=20that=20in=20some=20ways=20establishing=20the=20initial=20re=
lationship
=20was
=20easier=20with=20blind=20guys,=20because=20I=20didn't=20have=20to=20wonde=
r=20about
=20what
=20nonverbal=20signals=20they=20were=20sending=20or=20how=20they=20might=20=
interpret
=20my
=20nonverbal=20signals.=20=20However,=20when=20I=20try=20to=20compare=20the=

=20relationship=20I
=20have=20had=20with=20my=20sighted=20boyfriend=20over=20the=20past=20three=
=20years
=20with=20the
=20other=20relationships=20I=20have=20had=20with=20blind=20guys,=20I=20real=
ly=20can't
=20think
=20of=20any=20major=20differences.=20=20I=20do=20think=20that=20regardless=
=20of
=20blindness
=20status,=20it's=20important=20for=20you=20and=20your=20partner=20to=20sha=
re
=20interests=20and
=20passions=20in=20common.=20=20NFB=20and=20blindness=20are=20passions=20th=
at=20many=20of
=20us
=20share,=20and=20they=20help=20bring=20many=20blind=20couples=20together.=
=20=20
However,
=20there
=20are=20other=20interests=20or=20passions=20you=20may=20share=20with=20sig=
hted=20folks
=20around=20you,=20and=20finding=20a=20partner=20who=20shares=20one=20of=20=
those
=20passions
=20with=20you=20can=20be=20similarly=20rewarding.=20=20In=20other=20words,=
=20instead=20of
=20deciding=20who=20to=20date=20based=20on=20whether=20they=20are=20sighted=
=20or=20blind,
=20I
=20think=20it's=20more=20helpful=20to=20choose=20based=20on=20how=20much=20=
you=20share=20in
=20common=20with=20them.=20=20I=20know=20that=20for=20us=20blind=20folks=20=
it=20can=20be=20hard
=20to
=20meet=20and=20connect=20with=20people=20at=20bars=20or=20large=20gatherin=
gs=20like
=20singles'
=20parties.=20=20But=20if=20you=20can=20find=20communities=20of=20people=20=
that=20share
=20your
=20interests-whether=20that=20be=20your=20local=20NFB=20chapter=20or=20stud=
ent
=20division,
=20classes,=20church=20groups=20or=20clubs=20you=20might=20be=20in-that's=20=
a=20much
=20better
=20way=20to=20build=20lasting=20connections.
=20Arielle

=20On=203/22/12,=20Nimer=20M.=20=20Jaber,=20IC=C5=82=20<nimerjaber1 at gmail.c=
om>=20wrote:
=20Oops,=20I=20missed=20a=20point:=20I=20wouldn't=20go=20to=20an=20NFB=20co=
nvention
=20simply=20for
=20the=20dating=20scene.=20=20I'm=20sure=20relationships=20do=20develop=20a=
t=20things
=20like
=20that,=20however=20most=20people=20are=20going=20to=20be=20preoccupied=20=
with
=20general
=20sessions,=20exhibits,=20orientation=20around=20a=20huge=20massive=20hote=
l,=20etc
=20etc
=20to=20really=20pay=20attention=20to=20who's=20around=20them=20for=20datin=
g.

=20Later.

=20On=2022.03.2012,=20Nimer=20M.=20=20Jaber,=20IC=C5=82=20<nimerjaber1 at gmai=
l.com
=20wrote:
=20Hello=20Robin,

=20Or=20you=20could=20just=20go=20ahead=20and=20do=20the=20online=20dating=
=20thing=20and
=20learn
=20from=20it.=20=20It=20has=20turned=20out=20well=20for=20some,=20and=20not=
=20so=20well=20for
=20others.
=20As=20for=20the=20sighted=20vs.=20=20blind=20thing,=20I=20would=20ask=20w=
hat=20you=20want.
=20Not
=20dating=20a=20blind=20person=20simply=20because=20you=20think=20you'll=20=
look=20cool
=20and
=20more=20independent=20for=20dating=20a=20sighted=20person=20will=20limit=
=20your
=20options,
=20just=20like=20not=20dating=20a=20sighted=20person=20because=20you're=20a=
fraid=20of
=20being
=20rejected=20is=20crazy=20as=20well.=20=20We're=20all=20individuals.=20=20=
Many=20blind
=20people
=20have=20underlying=20disabilities,=20some=20may=20not=20be=20adjusted=20t=
o=20their
=20blindness=20completely,=20etc=20but=20you=20wouldn't=20have=20to
=20necessarily
=20feel=20self-conscious=20about=20the=20blindness=20issues,=20your=20appea=
rance,
=20etc
=20etc.=20=20Sighted=20people=20in=20my=20experience=20are=20going=20to=20a=
sk=20many
=20questions.
=20Especially=20at=20first,=20you'll=20probably=20have=20to=20do=20a=20whol=
e=20lot=20more
=20educating=20than=20dating,=20and=20it=20might=20get=20annoying,=20but=20=
many=20are
=20willing
=20to=20learn=20and=20it=20could=20work=20out.=20=20As=20for=20good=20datin=
g=20sites=20...=20=20
why
=20not
=20just=20getting=20onto=20the=20social=20networks=20like=20Facebook=20and=
=20put=20your
=20status=20as=20single?=20Maybe=20attend=20some=20of=20the=20singles=20con=
ferences
=20that
=20are=20out=20there?=20And=20if=20someone=20interests=20you,=20then=20go=20=
after=20them
=20(whether=20online=20or=20not).

=20Anyway,=20talk=20to=20you=20later=20and=20peace.=20=20May=20you=20have=20=
much=20luck=20
with
=20your
=20dating=20search.

=20Nimer=20J

=20On=2022.03.2012,=20Joshua=20Lester=20<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
=20wrote:
=20Also,=20it=20has=20been=20proven,=20that=20there=20are=20people=20on=20c=
hat=20sites,
=20that
=20pretend=20to=20be=20something,=20to=20get=20your=20attention,=20and=20th=
en=20when
=20you=20meet
=20them,=20they're=20a=20criminal.
=20Be=20careful,=20and=20meet=20people=20one=20on=20one,=20and=20in=20perso=
n.
=20Come=20to=20the=20NFB=20convention,=20and=20you=20might=20meet=20someone=
,=20and=20oh
=20yes,
=20there=20are=20sighted=20members=20in=20the=20NFB,=20as=20well!
=20Blessings,=20Joshua

=20On=203/22/12,=20Gloria=20G=20<gloria.graves at gmail.com>=20wrote:
=20Hi,
=20I=20have=20never=20gone=20on=20to=20any=20of=20the=20online=20dating=20s=
ites,=20but=20I
=20would=20be
=20very
=20careful=20because=20a=20person=20online=20is=20not=20as=20friendly=20or=
=20charming
=20as=20they
=20appear=20to=20be=20over=20emails.=20=20I=20have=20dated=20very=20few=20b=
lind=20people=20
and
=20find
=20that
=20there=20is=20always=20a=20focus=20on=20blindness=20in=20the=20relationsh=
ip=20and=20I
=20feel
=20that
=20is
=20a=20negative=20thing=20at=20times=20because=20we=20all=20live=20with=20b=
lindness=20on
=20a
=20daily
=20basis=20and=20want=20to=20know=20we=20are=20more=20than=20our=20blindnes=
s.=20=20I=20have
=20found
=20there
=20are=20a=20lot=20of=20people=20open=20to=20dating=20a=20blind=20person=20=
especially
=20when=20they
=20are
=20confident=20and=20out=20going.=20=20I=20have=20been=20in=20a=20relations=
hip=20with=20a
=20sited
=20person
=20for=203=20years=20and=20things=20are=20wonderful.
=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
=20From:=20"Robin"=20<robinmel71 at earthlink.net
=20To:=20<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20Sent:=20Thursday,=20March=2022,=202012=204:47=20PM
=20Subject:=20[nabs-l]=20Dating=20&=20Sighted-Blind-Low=20Vision


=20Hello=20to=20everyone,
=20I=20am=20just=20wondering=20if=20anyone=20has=20had=20any=20experience=20=
with=20online
=20dating
=20and=20if=20so=20what=20sites=20would=20you=20recommend?=20What=20experie=
nces=20have
=20you
=20had
=20with=20dating=20sighted=20people=20vs=20dating=20blind=20people?=20I=20l=
ook
=20forward=20to
=20hearing=20your=20stories.


=20I=20seldom=20think=20about=20my=20limitations,=20and=20they=20never=20ma=
ke=20me=20sad.
=20Perhaps
=20there=20is=20just=20a=20touch=20of=20yearning=20at=20times;=20but=20it=20=
is=20vague,
=20like=20a
=20breeze

=20among=20flowers.
=20Hellen=20Keller


=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount
=20info=20for
=20nabs-l:

=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
=20%40gmail.com



=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount
=20info=20for
=20nabs-l:

=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
=200students.pccua.edu


=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount
=20info=20for
=20nabs-l:

=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
=200gmail.com



=20--
=20Nimer=20Jaber,=20IC=C5=82=20and=20Freedom=20Scientific=20JAWS=20Certific=
ations

=20The=20message=20above=20is=20intended=20for=20the=20recipient=20to=20who=
m=20it=20was
=20addressed.=20=20If=20you=20believe=20that=20you=20are=20not=20the=20inte=
nded
=20recipient,
=20please=20notify=20me=20via=20reply=20email=20and=20destroy=20all=20copie=
s=20of=20this
=20correspondence.=20=20Action=20taken=20as=20a=20result=20of=20this=20emai=
l=20or=20its
=20contents
=20by=20anyone=20other=20than=20the=20intended=20recipient=20may=20result=20=
in=20civil
=20or
=20criminal=20action.=20=20I=20have=20checked=20this=20email=20and=20all=20=

corresponding
=20attachments=20for=20security=20threats.=20=20However,=20security=20of=20=
your
=20machine=20is
=20up=20to=20you.=20=20Thanks.

=20Registered=20Linux=20User=20529141.
=20http://counter.li.org/
=20Vinux=20testing=20and=20documentation=20coordinator
=20To=20get=20more=20information=20about=20a=20free=20and=20accessible=20op=
erating
=20system,
=20please=20click=20here:
=20http://www.vinuxproject.org

=20To=20find=20out=20about=20a=20free=20and=20versatile=20screen=20reader=20=
for=20windows
=20XP
=20and=20above,=20please=20click=20here:
=20http://www.nvda-project.org

=20You=20can=20follow=20 at nimerjaber=20on=20Twitter=20for=20the=20latest=20t=
echnology
=20news.

=20Check=20out=20my=20blog=20related=20to=20technology=20by=20clicking=20he=
re:
=20http://nimertech.blogspot.com

=20To=20contact=20me,=20you=20can=20reply=20to=20this=20email=20or=20you=20=
may=20call=20me=20at
=20(720)
=20(251-4530)=20and=20I=20will=20do=20my=20best=20to=20respond=20to=20you=20=
promptly.



=20--
=20Nimer=20Jaber,=20IC=C5=82=20and=20Freedom=20Scientific=20JAWS=20Certific=
ations

=20The=20message=20above=20is=20intended=20for=20the=20recipient=20to=20who=
m=20it=20was
=20addressed.=20=20If=20you=20believe=20that=20you=20are=20not=20the=20inte=
nded
=20recipient,
=20please=20notify=20me=20via=20reply=20email=20and=20destroy=20all=20copie=
s=20of=20this
=20correspondence.=20=20Action=20taken=20as=20a=20result=20of=20this=20emai=
l=20or=20its
=20contents
=20by=20anyone=20other=20than=20the=20intended=20recipient=20may=20result=20=
in=20civil
=20or
=20criminal=20action.=20=20I=20have=20checked=20this=20email=20and=20all=20=

corresponding
=20attachments=20for=20security=20threats.=20=20However,=20security=20of=20=
your
=20machine=20is
=20up=20to=20you.=20=20Thanks.

=20Registered=20Linux=20User=20529141.
=20http://counter.li.org/
=20Vinux=20testing=20and=20documentation=20coordinator
=20To=20get=20more=20information=20about=20a=20free=20and=20accessible=20op=
erating
=20system,
=20please=20click=20here:
=20http://www.vinuxproject.org

=20To=20find=20out=20about=20a=20free=20and=20versatile=20screen=20reader=20=
for=20windows
=20XP
=20and=20above,=20please=20click=20here:
=20http://www.nvda-project.org

=20You=20can=20follow=20 at nimerjaber=20on=20Twitter=20for=20the=20latest=20t=
echnology
=20news.

=20Check=20out=20my=20blog=20related=20to=20technology=20by=20clicking=20he=
re:
=20http://nimertech.blogspot.com

=20To=20contact=20me,=20you=20can=20reply=20to=20this=20email=20or=20you=20=
may=20call=20me=20at
=20(720)
=20(251-4530)=20and=20I=20will=20do=20my=20best=20to=20respond=20to=20you=20=
promptly.

=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount
=20info=20for
=20nabs-l:

=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40g
=20mail.com


=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount
=20info=20for
=20nabs-l:

=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cumbiambera20
=2005%40gmail.com


=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info
=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/oliver.doug1%
=2040gmail.com


=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info
=20for=20nabs-l:
=20
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=20se%40gmail..com


=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info
=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
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40gmail.com



=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info
=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40co
mcast.net






=20--
=2073
=20kd8qiq
=20jeff=20crouch

=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info
=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela
kas%40verizon.net



=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ignasicambra%
40gmail.com

=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela
kas%40verizon.net




=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gm
ail.com



=20--
=2073
=20kd8qiq
=20jeff=20crouch

=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela
kas%40verizon.net




=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
0students.pccua.edu


=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
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kas%40verizon.net




_______________________________________________
nabs-l=20mailing=20list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco=
unt=20info=20
for=20nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Mar 29 01:34:18 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:34:18 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
Message-ID: <4f73bc2e.4ad4e00a.6227.ffffc480@mx.google.com>

Hi Ashley,

The JAWS Certification is a certification offered by Freedom 
Scientific.  You just answer questions about JAWS on Freedom 
Scientific's Web site, then if you pass the test, you can say, as 
a bragging right, that you're officially JAWS-CERTIFIED.  Then 
you can buy a plaque you can hang in your house which says you 
are certified.  That's about it; bragging rights.  If you want a 
career in assistive technology, the JAWS certification probably 
won't do much to help you.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>,"National Association of Blind 
Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 23:05:06 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology

Hi,
What is the jaws certification? Why do you say its not worth a 
lot?
I believe there are some certifications for teaching assistive 
tech out
there.

-----Original Message-----
From: Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:51 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology

Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler 
Light House.

Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set 
amount
of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience 
which is
the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive 
an ic³
certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, 
and
mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my 
request
that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom 
Scientific
JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it 
places
much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get 
training
more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions 
of the
screen reader.  For all of this, the training supposedly takes 
nine
months although I finished up in under four.  This was the old 
program.
Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on 
teaching
modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc.  You don't 
receive
a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece of
paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you 
graduated
to be a certification.  This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
school.  Technically I'm sure they have to have some 
accreditation or
other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if 
they
are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so.  And
sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad.  They have 
an
antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched 
from
heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch 
twice a
year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a 
half
decent job.

Thanks.

On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
 worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it.  I 
wouldn't
 attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put 
it
 lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.

 On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> 
wrote:
 I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
 What a mistake!
 I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
 They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) 
program,
 that I would have highly recommended, if they had the 
instructor, that
 I had.
 We called her Ms Z.
 Anyone remember her?
 Blessings,Joshua

 On 3/25/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Joshua,

 LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
 several reasons.  First, the program is being modified heavily 
under
 the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I 
would
 say wait till everything's worked out.  Second, there are quite 
a few
 places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of 
its
 reputation in the past.  And, as mentioned, it is not a school 
which
 means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
 employment.

 Thanks.

 On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> 
wrote:
 http://www.lwsb.org
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
 Hi, I have a question.  What kind of school would you go to for 
a
 career
 in
 assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for 
massage
 therapy,
 my other interest is assistive technology.  Thanks.
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 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

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 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
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 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
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 please click here:
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 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
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 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
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 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
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--
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended 
recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its 
contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil 
or
criminal action.  I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.  However, security of your 
machine is
up to you.  Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
(720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Mar 29 01:35:06 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:35:06 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Scott MacIntyre: "By Faith, Not By Sight"
Message-ID: <4f73bc5d.4ad4e00a.6227.ffffc4ac@mx.google.com>

This sounds like a very interesting book:
From: Learning Ally <enews at learningally.org
To: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
 sent: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 17:28:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Scott MacIntyre: "By Faith, Not By Sight"

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Dear Members & Friends,

I am delighted to share good news about a close friend and 
long-time member of Learning
Ally, Scott MacIntyre.  Well known around the world as the first 
ever blind finalist
on "American Idol," Scott has a special connection to Learning 
Ally: he was a National
Achievement Award winner in 2005, keynoted our NAA celebration in 
Washington, DC
 last year, and continues to be a great celebrity advocate for 
our mission.

Scott has just released a new book, By Faith, Not By Sight.  We 
plan to record it
 soon for Learning Ally members.  In this autobiographical book, 
Scott talks about
how he overcame his disability, how he made it in the music 
industry, how he found
the love of his life, and how he learned that in all things, we 
can truly achieve
our dreams.

By Faith, Not By Sight Cover Image 
[http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1109618070987&s=166919&e=001tD0Lyfq
NaghaZW2_nIorN5G-ajlKJiPuOwAIrZOyT2JAWMSUfluyZ0hXRjpabesKKLZnJRpy
pmXTsTpDbQEhZ-Pw_Mdg-HoHhkSartMK4FFE_ufTGi7WAb2LJ7V8huRlDGdMT57Pt
GBXRjoDYnWLXFVfSqIhaTNBFWw3y9zK8ZOjRVXWVXeI2PF7TmSrOroPqD3ncYVsEV
g=]What many people may not know is that at 19 years old, Scott 
faced a life-threatening
illness and almost lost his life.  His contagious spirit of 
optimism and heartfelt
stories will take you on an emotional journey of love and 
yearning, hardship and
 hope, from someone who deeply understands the challenge of 
overcoming enormous
adversity - by faith, not by sight.  Here is a description from 
the book jacket:

"Is it possible to be high on a mountain and deep in a valley at 
the same time?
"This isn't a riddle, it's Scott MacIntyre's life.  Each time his 
dreams come true,
Scott finds his nightmares not far behind.  Some call it Murphy's 
Law.  Others call
it bad luck.  Scott has learned to call it a blessing, even when 
circumstances have
threatened to take everything away.

Scott MacIntyre in DC 
[http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1109618070987&s=166919&e=001tD0Lyfq
Nagj1MQbrPNEG69JSVHc4UJHCl2KleX0jfXoAoNImiE34WsH_ArRy36i_Qn83RVw0
GXtBbbo5R4xKTxjIrJK1ST53jspl9muiIKlREzP-2HW61g==]"Outstanding 
graduate.  Marshall scholar.  Recording artist.  Inspirational 
speaker.
American Idol.  Blind from birth, Scott has had to work harder 
and longer to achieve
his goals.  But when a silent killer begins to undermine his 
success, Scott cannot
work it out alone.  Once again, he must lean on his faith, his 
close-knit family,
 and the life-giving aid of friends to survive.

"Follow Scott's roller-coaster ride to see how the mountains and 
valleys in his
life gave him perspective, hope, and ultimately triumph."

Scott's book, "By Faith, Not By Sight", can be ordered from 
Amazon.

 
[http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1109618070987&s=166919&e=001tD0Lyfq
NaghaZW2_nIorN5G-ajlKJiPuOwAIrZOyT2JAWMSUfluyZ0hXRjpabesKKLZnJRpy
pmXTsTpDbQEhZ-Pw_Mdg-HoHhkSartMK4FFE_ufTGi7WAb2LJ7V8huRlDGdMT57Pt
GBXRjoDYnWLXFVfSqIhaTNBFWw3y9zK8ZOjRVXWVXeI2PF7TmSrOroPqD3ncYVsEV
g=]You
can also order a first-edition autographed copy.

 
[http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1109618070987&s=166919&e=001tD0Lyfq
NagjQqgKa_HCRszWwUdDWGngdWD-0e5zwaTpYFI_ECQtC2JebVQKUYcYU4yEok1UB
C_jv8fFX6exR13qQ58_i9zJtN685j92WVI-8esqgxQ_bugyExLYRHvAZPX2jPqKUy
aBU3cHhgKa-Xk1EcRyUxYGf]Find out more about Scott on
 his website.  
[http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1109618070987&s=166919&e=001tD0Lyfq
Nagj1MQbrPNEG69JSVHc4UJHCl2KleX0jfXoAoNImiE34WsH_ArRy36i_Qn83RVw0
GXtBbbo5R4xKTxjIrJK1ST53jspl9muiIKlREzP-2HW61g==]Please join me 
in congratulating Scott on the publication of his new book, and 
share
the good news with your friends and colleagues.

Andrew Friedman
President and CEO
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~A national nonprofit since 1948 -
 LearningAlly.org 
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KcEaUd44B9fGiG606XmR2BynQJPNGp-OosouDBAFn0Zpyg==]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my BrailleNote



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Mar 29 01:34:58 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:34:58 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] google docs
Message-ID: <4f73bc55.4ad4e00a.6227.ffffc4a3@mx.google.com>

Hi=20Ashley,

Yes,=20Google=20Docs=20is=20inaccessible=20at=20the=20moment;=20NFB=20is=20=
working=20
with=20Google=20to=20fix=20that.=20=20Basically,=20it=20is=20an=20alternati=
ve=20to=20
Microsoft=20Word=20which=20allows=20you=20to=20write=20and=20edit=20documen=
ts=20as=20
well=20as=20send=20them=20to=20people,=20i.e.=20=20your=20professor,=20from=
=20within=20
the=20program.=20=20I=20would=20do=20what=20you=20suggest;=20that=20is,=20w=
rite=20the=20
document=20in=20Word,=20then=20send=20it=20as=20an=20email=20attachment=20t=
o=20your=20
professor.

Chris=20Nusbaum

Sent=20from=20my=20BrailleNote

=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20"Ashley=20Bramlett"=20<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"=20
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20sent:=20Mon,=2026=20Mar=202012=2014:07:18=20-0400
Subject:=20[nabs-l]=20google=20docs

Hi=20all,

Well,=20I=20have=20a=20hybrid=20class=20for=20english;=20that=20means=20hal=
f=20online=20
work=20and=20half=20in=20class=20meetings.
What=20exactly=20is=20google=20docs=20and=20how=20does=20it=20work?
Do=20you=20attach=20documents=20to=20it=20or=20something?

I=20realize=20it=20is=20inaccessible=20to=20us.=20=20How=20do=20you=20get=20=
around=20that?=20
Do=20you=20write=20assignments=20in=20word=20and/or=20email?
I=20ask=20because=20I=20encountered=20google=20docs=20in=20our=20online=20c=
lass=20when=20
we=20were=20supposed=20to=20comment=20on=20introductions=20for=20articles.
Obviously,=20I=20couldn=E2=80=99t=20read=20the=20comments.=20=20Jaws=20only=
=20read=20names=20
of=20classmates,=20not=20text.
So=20I=E2=80=99ll=20have=20to=20have=20=20a=20sighted=20reader=20and=20hand=
=20in=20my=20comments=20
on=20paper.

And=20most=20importantly,=20has=20either=20consumer=20advocacy=20group=20do=
ne=20
anything=20about=20this=20lack=20of=20accessibility?=20I=20fail=20to=20see=
=20how=20
blind=20students=20take=20online=20classes=20with=20so=20much=20inaccesssib=
ility.
PDFS,=20flash=20based=20content,=20multi=20media=20presentations=20and=20um=
=20now=20
google=20docs=20are=20just=20a=20few=20accessibility=20challenges=20in=20th=
e=20online=20
class=20experience.

Ashley
_______________________________________________
nabs-l=20mailing=20list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco=
unt=20info=20
for=20nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Mar 29 01:35:00 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:35:00 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] google docs
Message-ID: <4f73bc57.4ad4e00a.6227.ffffc4a6@mx.google.com>

Great=20ideas,=20Katie!=20By=20the=20way,=20where=20do=20I=20download=20Fir=
efox?

Chris=20Nusbaum

Sent=20from=20my=20BrailleNote

=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20Katie=20Wang=20<bunnykatie6 at gmail.com
To:=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list=20
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20sent:=20Mon,=2026=20Mar=202012=2014:51:09=20-0400
Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20google=20docs

Hi=20Ashley,

Google=20Docs=20is=20a=20popular=20file-sharing=20tool=20tied=20to=20your=20=
Google
account.=20=20Once=20you=20create=20a=20file=20on=20Google=20Docs=20(Word=20=
documents,=20
Excel
spreadsheets,=20or=20PowerPoint=20presentations),=20you=20can=20share=20it=
=20with=20
a
group=20of=20people=20by=20their=20email=20addresses,=20who=20can=20then=20=
edit=20or=20
comment
on=20your=20work.=20=20You=20are=20right=20that=20it=20is=20=20currently=20=
inaccessible=20
in
Internet=20Explorer,=20although=20I=20have=20heard=20that=20it=20now=20work=
s=20with=20
JAWS
in=20Firefox.=20=20I'm=20also=20aware=20that=20Google=20is=20working=20on=20=
improving=20
the
accessibility=20of=20their=20various=20products,=20although=20I'm=20not=20s=
ure=20
how
much=20progress=20they=20have=20made=20so=20far.

For=20the=20purpose=20of=20your=20class,=20it=20might=20be=20worthwhile=20f=
or=20you=20to=20
check
if=20Google=20Docs=20indeed=20works=20in=20Firefox,=20especially=20consider=
ing=20
that
the=20browser=20is=20free=20and=20fairly=20easy=20to=20install.=20=20If=20t=
hat=20route=20
does=20not
work,=20you=20may=20need=20to=20talk=20to=20your=20instructor/classmates=20=
to=20work=20
out
an=20alternative=20solution.=20=20What=20do=20you=20mostly=20use=20Google=20=
Docs=20for=20
in
your=20class?=20If=20the=20work=20mostly=20involves=20peer=20editing=20in=20=
a=20small=20
group
(which=20sounds=20like=20what=20you=20are=20describing),=20perhaps=20you=20=
could=20
talk=20to
your=20fellow=20editing=20group=20members=20to=20see=20if=20you=20could=20a=
ll=20email=20
around
your=20assignments=20and=20add=20comments=20directly=20in=20Microsoft=20Wor=
d.=20=20A
similar,=20but=20perfectly=20accessible,=20alternative=20to=20Google=20Docs=
=20is
Dropbox,=20a=20desktop=20client=20that=20also=20allows=20you=20to=20share=20=
files=20
with
others,=20so=20that=20might=20be=20something=20worth=20considering=20as=20w=
ell.=20=20
Hope
this=20helps!

Katie

On=203/26/12,=20Ashley=20Bramlett=20<bookwormahb at earthlink.net>=20wrote:
=20Hi=20all,

=20Well,=20I=20have=20a=20hybrid=20class=20for=20english;=20that=20means=20=
half=20online=20
work=20and
=20half=20in=20class=20meetings.
=20What=20exactly=20is=20google=20docs=20and=20how=20does=20it=20work?
=20Do=20you=20attach=20documents=20to=20it=20or=20something?

=20I=20realize=20it=20is=20inaccessible=20to=20us.=20=20How=20do=20you=20ge=
t=20around=20that?=20
Do=20you=20write
=20assignments=20in=20word=20and/or=20email?
=20I=20ask=20because=20I=20encountered=20google=20docs=20in=20our=20online=
=20class=20when=20
we=20were
=20supposed=20to=20comment=20on=20introductions=20for=20articles.
=20Obviously,=20I=20couldn=92t=20read=20the=20comments.=20=20Jaws=20only=20=
read=20names=20
of=20classmates,
=20not=20text.
=20So=20I=92ll=20have=20to=20have=20=20a=20sighted=20reader=20and=20hand=20=
in=20my=20comments=20
on=20paper.

=20And=20most=20importantly,=20has=20either=20consumer=20advocacy=20group=20=
done=20
anything=20about
=20this=20lack=20of=20accessibility?=20I=20fail=20to=20see=20how=20blind=20=
students=20
take=20online
=20classes=20with=20so=20much=20inaccesssibility.
=20PDFS,=20flash=20based=20content,=20multi=20media=20presentations=20and=20=
um=20now=20
google=20docs
=20are=20just=20a=20few=20accessibility=20challenges=20in=20the=20online=20=
class=20
experience.

=20Ashley
=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%4
0gmail.com


_______________________________________________
nabs-l=20mailing=20list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco=
unt=20info=20
for=20nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu Mar 29 01:34:50 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:34:50 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
Message-ID: <4f73bc4e.4ad4e00a.6227.ffffc498@mx.google.com>

Brian,

This may be a good topic for a Braille Monitor investigative 
article.  Although I'm in no place to give any information to the 
Monitor or to write the article (I've never been to the center 
and am not familiar with its policies,) you or someone else may 
want to contact Gary Wunder, the editor of the Monitor, by 
emailing gwunder at nfb.org to give him the suggestion.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Hatgelakas" <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
To: <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>,"National Association of Blind 
Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:25:02 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology

If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs 
accept the IRS
program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state 
agencies on
useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do 
an
investigative article on this topic.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


Joshua,

The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB.  You can 
go to
any other IRS class and get the same offered position.  WSB just
happens to be the location of an IRS training sight.  The 
employees
that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the 
computer
network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes 
and WSB
two separate entities in my mind.  Even if you wish to count the 
IRS
classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs 
that
will not provide employment once a program has been terminated 
and a
client has graduated successfully.

Thanks.

On 25.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> 
wrote:
 Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler 
Light
 House.

 Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set 
amount
 of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience 
which is
 the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive 
an ic³
 certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of, 
and
 mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my 
request
 that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom 
Scientific
 JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it 
places
 much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get 
training
 more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions 
of the
 screen reader.  For all of this, the training supposedly takes 
nine
 months although I finished up in under four.  This was the old 
program.
 Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on 
teaching
 modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
 communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc.  You don't 
receive
 a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece 
of
 paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you 
graduated
 to be a certification.  This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
 school.  Technically I'm sure they have to have some 
accreditation or
 other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if 
they
 are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so.  And
 sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad.  They have 
an
 antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched 
from
 heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch 
twice a
 year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
 unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a 
half
 decent job.

 Thanks.

 On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
 worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it.  I 
wouldn't
 attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put 
it
 lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.

 On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> 
wrote:
 I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
 What a mistake!
 I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
 They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,) 
program,
 that I would have highly recommended, if they had the 
instructor, that
 I had.
 We called her Ms Z.
 Anyone remember her?
 Blessings,Joshua

 On 3/25/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Joshua,

 LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
 several reasons.  First, the program is being modified heavily 
under
 the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I 
would
 say wait till everything's worked out.  Second, there are quite 
a few
 places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of 
its
 reputation in the past.  And, as mentioned, it is not a school 
which
 means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
 employment.

 Thanks.

 On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> 
wrote:
 http://www.lwsb.org
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
 Hi, I have a question.  What kind of school would you go to for 
a
 career
 in
 assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for 
massage
 therapy,
 my other interest is assistive technology.  Thanks.
 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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 nabs-l:
 
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 nabs-l:
 
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 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended 
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its 
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil 
or
 criminal action.  I have checked this email and all 
corresponding
 attachments for security threats.  However, security of your 
machine is
 up to you.  Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
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 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
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 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
0gmail.com



 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended 
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its 
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil 
or
 criminal action.  I have checked this email and all 
corresponding
 attachments for security threats.  However, security of your 
machine is
 up to you.  Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.



--
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended 
recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its 
contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil 
or
criminal action.  I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.  However, security of your 
machine is
up to you.  Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
(720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela
kas%40verizon.net



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m%40gmail.com



From dandrews at visi.com  Thu Mar 29 02:57:25 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 21:57:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Spirit Airlines is no longer accessible using speech
 [Incident: 120307-000422]
Message-ID: <auto-000054024973@mailfront4.g2host.com>


>From: "Reese" <atlanticstar1 at gmail.com>
>Subject: [Blindtlk] Fw: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer
>         accessible using speech [Incident: 120307-000422]
>
>Please circulate this message where ever you feel its appropriate.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>Hello list:
>
>Here's the final word from Spirit Airlines regarding there inaccessible
>website.  It will follow my final reply to them.  Again the US Department of
>Transportation has dropped the ball on this one just like they did with the
>accessible airport boarding.
>
>Reese
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Peachtreetravel.net" <reservations at peachtreetravel.net>
>To: "Spirit Airlines" <spiritair at mailnj.custhelp.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 1:35 PM
>Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer accessible
>using speech [Incident: 120307-000422]
>
>
>Dear Michelle:
>
>First I want to thank you for researching this serious matter both for me
>and all of the members of my Organization.   Regretfully I'll have to inform
>the 50,000 members of my organization to do business else where until Spirit
>Airlines website is accessible once again.  For this is the only way to
>achieve fare and equal access.
>
>I will check back from time to time to see if true access ever returns to
>spirit Airlines and will keep my members up to date.  It has been good doing
>business with you and hopefully we
>can resume doing business again in the future.
>
>Sincerely yours,
>
>Maurice P Shackelford
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Spirit Airlines" <spiritair at mailnj.custhelp.com>
>To: <reservations at peachtreetravel.net>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 9:38 AM
>Subject: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer accessible using
>speech [Incident: 120307-000422]
>
>
>
>Subject
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>[Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer accessible using speech
>
>
>Discussion Thread
>---------------------------------------------------------------
>  (Michelle 62611) - 03/27/2012 09:38 AM
>Dear Mr. Shackelford,
>
>Thank you for your patience as we investigated this matter thoroughly.
>
>We sincerely regret that you are unable to access the check box for the $9
>Fare Club membership and or the check box at the end of the booking.
>However, this is not a violation of DOT's disability rule. Please be advised
>that airlines are governed under the Department of Transportation and their
>disability rule, 14 CFR 382, and are under no legal obligation to provide an
>accessible website. We are required, under 14 CFR 382.31(c), to disclose
>web-based discount fares to any prospective passenger who contacts the
>carrier via other normal channels for inquiring about fares, making a
>reservation, or purchasing transportation (e.g. telephone reservation line,
>airport ticket counter) and states that he or she has a visual impairment
>and is unable to use the website. The carrier must sell a
>web-based discount fare to such a person if his or her itinerary qualifies
>for the fare as it is offered on the web (e.g., same cities and dates).
>
>Our IT Department has reviewed your claim and they have informed me that
>they changed the boxes on our booking path to styled check boxes which don't
>work in the browser types you've attempted to use. The change was made
>nearly a year ago and this has been the first complaint brought to their
>attention on the matter. They are reviewing options to allow these types of
>browsers to work with the needed functionality for our customers with visual
>impairments.
>
>I regret that I cannot offer more information on the matter, but thank you
>for bringing this to our attention.
>
>Please note, if you ever encounter problems when traveling with us, feel
>free to ask our Spirit Airlines customer service personnel for a Complaint
>Resolution Official (CRO). Our CROs have been specially trained and are
>aware of applicable Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Department of
>Transportation (DOT) disability regulations. Our CROs are available at all
>airport locations and will be glad to respond to your concerns.
>
>We trust we have addressed you concerns in a satisfactory manner; however,
>if you choose to pursue enforcement action, you have the right to contact
>the Department of Transportation, in accordance with ACAA and DOT rule 14
>CFR Part 382.
>
>Please feel free to contact me if you ever require assistance. We know you
>have a choice in air travel and are grateful you choose Spirit Airlines.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Michelle 62611
>Disability Specialist/
>Corporate Escalation Officer
>Spirit Airlines





From loneblindjedi at samobile.net  Thu Mar 29 03:17:25 2012
From: loneblindjedi at samobile.net (SA Mobile)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 22:17:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Spirit Airlines is no longer accessible using speech
	[Incident: 120307-000422]
In-Reply-To: <auto-000054024973@mailfront4.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000054024973@mailfront4.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <15E6A86F-388B-48E4-A206-9CBFB1CF686F@samobile.net>

Not to seem too crass, but that sounded like a cordial middle finger to the blind community. Sounds like we need to find a way to close loop holes like the ones Spirit is using to avoid accountability for web access.

Respectfully,
Jedi

Sent from my iPhone

On 28/03/2012, at 9:57 PM, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:

> 
>> From: "Reese" <atlanticstar1 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Fw: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer
>>        accessible using speech [Incident: 120307-000422]
>> 
>> Please circulate this message where ever you feel its appropriate.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> 
>> Hello list:
>> 
>> Here's the final word from Spirit Airlines regarding there inaccessible
>> website.  It will follow my final reply to them.  Again the US Department of
>> Transportation has dropped the ball on this one just like they did with the
>> accessible airport boarding.
>> 
>> Reese
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peachtreetravel.net" <reservations at peachtreetravel.net>
>> To: "Spirit Airlines" <spiritair at mailnj.custhelp.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 1:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer accessible
>> using speech [Incident: 120307-000422]
>> 
>> 
>> Dear Michelle:
>> 
>> First I want to thank you for researching this serious matter both for me
>> and all of the members of my Organization.   Regretfully I'll have to inform
>> the 50,000 members of my organization to do business else where until Spirit
>> Airlines website is accessible once again.  For this is the only way to
>> achieve fare and equal access.
>> 
>> I will check back from time to time to see if true access ever returns to
>> spirit Airlines and will keep my members up to date.  It has been good doing
>> business with you and hopefully we
>> can resume doing business again in the future.
>> 
>> Sincerely yours,
>> 
>> Maurice P Shackelford
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Spirit Airlines" <spiritair at mailnj.custhelp.com>
>> To: <reservations at peachtreetravel.net>
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 9:38 AM
>> Subject: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer accessible using
>> speech [Incident: 120307-000422]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Subject
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer accessible using speech
>> 
>> 
>> Discussion Thread
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>> (Michelle 62611) - 03/27/2012 09:38 AM
>> Dear Mr. Shackelford,
>> 
>> Thank you for your patience as we investigated this matter thoroughly.
>> 
>> We sincerely regret that you are unable to access the check box for the $9
>> Fare Club membership and or the check box at the end of the booking.
>> However, this is not a violation of DOT's disability rule. Please be advised
>> that airlines are governed under the Department of Transportation and their
>> disability rule, 14 CFR 382, and are under no legal obligation to provide an
>> accessible website. We are required, under 14 CFR 382.31(c), to disclose
>> web-based discount fares to any prospective passenger who contacts the
>> carrier via other normal channels for inquiring about fares, making a
>> reservation, or purchasing transportation (e.g. telephone reservation line,
>> airport ticket counter) and states that he or she has a visual impairment
>> and is unable to use the website. The carrier must sell a
>> web-based discount fare to such a person if his or her itinerary qualifies
>> for the fare as it is offered on the web (e.g., same cities and dates).
>> 
>> Our IT Department has reviewed your claim and they have informed me that
>> they changed the boxes on our booking path to styled check boxes which don't
>> work in the browser types you've attempted to use. The change was made
>> nearly a year ago and this has been the first complaint brought to their
>> attention on the matter. They are reviewing options to allow these types of
>> browsers to work with the needed functionality for our customers with visual
>> impairments.
>> 
>> I regret that I cannot offer more information on the matter, but thank you
>> for bringing this to our attention.
>> 
>> Please note, if you ever encounter problems when traveling with us, feel
>> free to ask our Spirit Airlines customer service personnel for a Complaint
>> Resolution Official (CRO). Our CROs have been specially trained and are
>> aware of applicable Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Department of
>> Transportation (DOT) disability regulations. Our CROs are available at all
>> airport locations and will be glad to respond to your concerns.
>> 
>> We trust we have addressed you concerns in a satisfactory manner; however,
>> if you choose to pursue enforcement action, you have the right to contact
>> the Department of Transportation, in accordance with ACAA and DOT rule 14
>> CFR Part 382.
>> 
>> Please feel free to contact me if you ever require assistance. We know you
>> have a choice in air travel and are grateful you choose Spirit Airlines.
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>> Michelle 62611
>> Disability Specialist/
>> Corporate Escalation Officer
>> Spirit Airlines
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
> 



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Thu Mar 29 03:21:21 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 22:21:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Spirit Airlines is no longer accessible using speech
 [Incident: 120307-000422]
In-Reply-To: <15E6A86F-388B-48E4-A206-9CBFB1CF686F@samobile.net>
References: <auto-000054024973@mailfront4.g2host.com>
	<15E6A86F-388B-48E4-A206-9CBFB1CF686F@samobile.net>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOt_WS9ZhuqvzT-NA-PEbhG+rD9e=mmBBUGbSbVCx6wLdg@mail.gmail.com>

I agree!
How dare they, or anyone for that matter, make their Websites inaccessible?
We need more laws, and more enforcement of the laws, that we have now!
This, is as bad as an airline taking a blind person's cane, and
claiming, that it could be used as a weapon!
How stupid, can some people be?
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/28/12, SA Mobile <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:
> Not to seem too crass, but that sounded like a cordial middle finger to the
> blind community. Sounds like we need to find a way to close loop holes like
> the ones Spirit is using to avoid accountability for web access.
>
> Respectfully,
> Jedi
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 28/03/2012, at 9:57 PM, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>> From: "Reese" <atlanticstar1 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [Blindtlk] Fw: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer
>>>        accessible using speech [Incident: 120307-000422]
>>>
>>> Please circulate this message where ever you feel its appropriate.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>
>>> Hello list:
>>>
>>> Here's the final word from Spirit Airlines regarding there inaccessible
>>> website.  It will follow my final reply to them.  Again the US Department
>>> of
>>> Transportation has dropped the ball on this one just like they did with
>>> the
>>> accessible airport boarding.
>>>
>>> Reese
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Peachtreetravel.net" <reservations at peachtreetravel.net>
>>> To: "Spirit Airlines" <spiritair at mailnj.custhelp.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 1:35 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer accessible
>>> using speech [Incident: 120307-000422]
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Michelle:
>>>
>>> First I want to thank you for researching this serious matter both for me
>>> and all of the members of my Organization.   Regretfully I'll have to
>>> inform
>>> the 50,000 members of my organization to do business else where until
>>> Spirit
>>> Airlines website is accessible once again.  For this is the only way to
>>> achieve fare and equal access.
>>>
>>> I will check back from time to time to see if true access ever returns to
>>> spirit Airlines and will keep my members up to date.  It has been good
>>> doing
>>> business with you and hopefully we
>>> can resume doing business again in the future.
>>>
>>> Sincerely yours,
>>>
>>> Maurice P Shackelford
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Spirit Airlines" <spiritair at mailnj.custhelp.com>
>>> To: <reservations at peachtreetravel.net>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 9:38 AM
>>> Subject: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer accessible using
>>> speech [Incident: 120307-000422]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Subject
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer accessible using speech
>>>
>>>
>>> Discussion Thread
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> (Michelle 62611) - 03/27/2012 09:38 AM
>>> Dear Mr. Shackelford,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your patience as we investigated this matter thoroughly.
>>>
>>> We sincerely regret that you are unable to access the check box for the
>>> $9
>>> Fare Club membership and or the check box at the end of the booking.
>>> However, this is not a violation of DOT's disability rule. Please be
>>> advised
>>> that airlines are governed under the Department of Transportation and
>>> their
>>> disability rule, 14 CFR 382, and are under no legal obligation to provide
>>> an
>>> accessible website. We are required, under 14 CFR 382.31(c), to disclose
>>> web-based discount fares to any prospective passenger who contacts the
>>> carrier via other normal channels for inquiring about fares, making a
>>> reservation, or purchasing transportation (e.g. telephone reservation
>>> line,
>>> airport ticket counter) and states that he or she has a visual impairment
>>> and is unable to use the website. The carrier must sell a
>>> web-based discount fare to such a person if his or her itinerary
>>> qualifies
>>> for the fare as it is offered on the web (e.g., same cities and dates).
>>>
>>> Our IT Department has reviewed your claim and they have informed me that
>>> they changed the boxes on our booking path to styled check boxes which
>>> don't
>>> work in the browser types you've attempted to use. The change was made
>>> nearly a year ago and this has been the first complaint brought to their
>>> attention on the matter. They are reviewing options to allow these types
>>> of
>>> browsers to work with the needed functionality for our customers with
>>> visual
>>> impairments.
>>>
>>> I regret that I cannot offer more information on the matter, but thank
>>> you
>>> for bringing this to our attention.
>>>
>>> Please note, if you ever encounter problems when traveling with us, feel
>>> free to ask our Spirit Airlines customer service personnel for a
>>> Complaint
>>> Resolution Official (CRO). Our CROs have been specially trained and are
>>> aware of applicable Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and Department
>>> of
>>> Transportation (DOT) disability regulations. Our CROs are available at
>>> all
>>> airport locations and will be glad to respond to your concerns.
>>>
>>> We trust we have addressed you concerns in a satisfactory manner;
>>> however,
>>> if you choose to pursue enforcement action, you have the right to contact
>>> the Department of Transportation, in accordance with ACAA and DOT rule 14
>>> CFR Part 382.
>>>
>>> Please feel free to contact me if you ever require assistance. We know
>>> you
>>> have a choice in air travel and are grateful you choose Spirit Airlines.
>>>
>>> Sincerely,
>>>
>>> Michelle 62611
>>> Disability Specialist/
>>> Corporate Escalation Officer
>>> Spirit Airlines
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/loneblindjedi%40samobile.net
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From sjhhirst at gmail.com  Thu Mar 29 16:33:25 2012
From: sjhhirst at gmail.com (Stephanie DeLuca)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:33:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] google docs
In-Reply-To: <4f73bc55.4ad4e00a.6227.ffffc4a3@mx.google.com>
References: <4f73bc55.4ad4e00a.6227.ffffc4a3@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <175E1C83-F1CE-4499-B851-9B94C90908C5@gmail.com>

Go here to download Firefox.
http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/

I think the screen reader on Macs is not too bad, and Safari may be able to handle Google Docs...

On Mar 28, 2012, at 8:34 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

> Hi Ashley,
> 
> Yes, Google Docs is inaccessible at the moment; NFB is working with Google to fix that.  Basically, it is an alternative to Microsoft Word which allows you to write and edit documents as well as send them to people, i.e.  your professor, from within the program.  I would do what you suggest; that is, write the document in Word, then send it as an email attachment to your professor.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my BrailleNote
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> sent: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:07:18 -0400
> Subject: [nabs-l] google docs
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Well, I have a hybrid class for english; that means half online work and half in class meetings.
> What exactly is google docs and how does it work?
> Do you attach documents to it or something?
> 
> I realize it is inaccessible to us.  How do you get around that? Do you write assignments in word and/or email?
> I ask because I encountered google docs in our online class when we were supposed to comment on introductions for articles.
> Obviously, I couldn’t read the comments.  Jaws only read names of classmates, not text.
> So I’ll have to have  a sighted reader and hand in my comments on paper.
> 
> And most importantly, has either consumer advocacy group done anything about this lack of accessibility? I fail to see how blind students take online classes with so much inaccesssibility.
> PDFS, flash based content, multi media presentations and um now google docs are just a few accessibility challenges in the online class experience.
> 
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com



From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Thu Mar 29 18:25:32 2012
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:25:32 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Needing the Koran for a Research Paper
In-Reply-To: <CAD0KW=ZHrdYChBp9gZLnttMj7OpJiJ3kPVcjV3X56-ZsAekJ1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABORmNtW09_4YxOModySptKUC7QzRS_kfGmi-KWWN9nepmHrEQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD0KW=bzGNc8irVCC84ZBK7z2u6d=4fT-zuyVZAbXxva0uURdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD0KW=ZHrdYChBp9gZLnttMj7OpJiJ3kPVcjV3X56-ZsAekJ1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABORmNuPPZN2JOHtve4RovbNYH4q54LXW0bU-MaTPtHaCS2o6w@mail.gmail.com>

Hey, thanks for pointing out the Koran on BARD. I completely missed
it. It'll help me some, and what I don't get from the audio version,
I'll get from the online version. I'm hoping to get the Koran put on
Bookshare, too, though. Again, thanks for pointing out the Koran on
BARD to me...somehow I completely missed it!

Thanks,
Jewel

On 3/27/12, Lea williams <leanicole1988 at gmail.com> wrote:
> This book is audio, did you want text? You said to surtch for words
> and stuff... not sure how you would do that in audio. Try bookshare
> maybe if so?
>
>
> On 3/27/12, Lea williams <leanicole1988 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> There is this book...
>> The Koran
>> Dawood, N. J. Read by Hugh Carney. Reading time 18 hours 11 minutes.
>> Religion
>> Translated by N. J. Dawood, this earliest work of classical Arabic is
>> the sacred scripture of Islam as revealed to the Prophet Mohammed by
>> the Angel Gabriel. 1966.
>> Download The Koran, DB7789
>>
>> I found it on the bard website.
>>
>>
>> On 3/27/12, Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>> I'm working on a history paper that I need to cite the Koran for, but
>>> I can't find the full text of the Koran in daisy format anywhere. I'd
>>> much rather it in daisy format than anything, so I can search for
>>> specific words/phrases even at home where I don't have interent. I
>>> found an online Koran, but not a daisy book. Does anyone know of one,
>>> and if not, why isn't it out there? There's plenty of versions of the
>>> Bible in daisy format, so why not the Koran?
>>>
>>> Hoping to find it,
>>> Jewel Shuping
>>> herekittykat2 at gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leanicole1988%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Lea Williams
>>
>> Phone;
>> 704-732-4470
>> Skipe;
>> Lea.williams738
>> Facebook
>> http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
>> Twitter
>> http://twitter.com/LeaNicole1988
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Lea Williams
>
> Phone;
> 704-732-4470
> Skipe;
> Lea.williams738
> Facebook
> http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
> Twitter
> http://twitter.com/LeaNicole1988
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Mar 30 00:24:02 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:24:02 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
Message-ID: <4f74fd36.81cde00a.7e5a.6836@mx.google.com>

All=20these=20complaints=20against=20what=20we=20NFB=20members=20call=20
"traditional=20rehab=20centers"=20and=20their=20policies=20make=20the=20NFB=
=20
training=20centers=20and=20their=20practices=20that=20much=20better!=20From=
=20what=20
I=20know=20about=20many=20of=20you=20from=20previous=20posts=20on=20this=20=
list,=20you=20
like=20the=20NFB=20philosophy=20and=20the=20fact=20that=20we=20believe=20bl=
ind=20people=20
can=20and=20should=20be=20expected=20to=20be=20as=20independent=20as=20we=20=
can.=20=20So,=20
why=20not=20go=20to=20an=20adult=20program=20at=20an=20NFB=20center?=20They=
=20offer=20the=20
same=20type=20of=20program=20and=20teach=20the=20same=20skills=20as=20tradi=
tional=20
facilities=20such=20as=20LWSB,=20but=20the=20NFB=20centers=20believe=20in=20=
teaching=20
independence=20and=20won't=20force=20you=20to=20take=20a=20class=20you=20do=
n't=20need.=20=20
I=20encourage=20you=20all=20to=20check=20them=20out!

Chris=20Nusbaum

Sent=20from=20my=20BrailleNote

=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20"Brian=20Hatgelakas"=20<brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"=20
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20sent:=20Mon,=2026=20Mar=202012=2021:29:06=20-0400
Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Careers=20in=20assistive=20technology

Why=20would=20they=20make=20you=20take=20a=20TDL=20class=20if=20you=20are=20=
already=20doing=20
the=20stuff
on=20your=20own?=20=20If=20I=20went=20to=20a=20center=20for=20a=20job=20pla=
cement=20program=20
I'd=20show
them=20right=20away=20and=20try=20to=20opt=20out=20of=20the=20class.=20=20C=
ouldn't=20you=20
have=20done
this.=20=20Seams=20like=20those=20centers=20bring=20us=20independent=20peop=
le=20down=20
to=20the
lowest=20level=20of=20people=20that=20don't=20know=20anything=20about=20liv=
ing=20
independently
at=20first=20before=20you=20can=20get=20to=20the=20programs=20you=20are=20a=
ctually=20
paying=20for.
-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20"Joshua=20Lester"=20<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent:=20Monday,=20March=2026,=202012=207:20=20PM
Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Careers=20in=20assistive=20technology


They=20train=20people=20in=20Daily=20living=20skills,=20because=20I=20was=20=
forced=20to=20
take
that=20TDL,=20(Techniques=20of=20Daily=20Living,)=20class!
I=20hated=20it,=20because=20it=20was=20stuff,=20I=20already=20knew,=20and=20=
was=20doing=20
on=20my=20own!
Theresa=20Bailey=20taught=20it,=20and=20it=20was=20horible!
Blessings,=20Joshua

On=203/26/12,=20Brian=20Hatgelakas=20<brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>=20
wrote:
=20I=20thought=20that=20LWSB=20didn't=20train=20people=20on=20daily=20livin=
g=20skills.=20=20
That's
=20what
=20I=20said!
=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
=20From:=20"Nathan=20Clark"=20<troubleclark at gmail.com
=20To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"
=20<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20Sent:=20Monday,=20March=2026,=202012=2012:28=20PM
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Careers=20in=20assistive=20technology


=20Dear=20Brian,
=20What=20are=20you=20refering=20to=20when=20you=20talk=20about=20the=20CCB=
=20job=20
training=20program?
=20Sincerely,
=20Nathan

=20On=203/26/12,=20Brian=20Hatgelakas=20<brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>=20
wrote:
=20I=20wasn't=20aware=20that=20LWSB=20offered=20programs=20similar=20to=20t=
he=20Carol=20
Center's
=20and
=20Colorado=20Center's!=20=20I=20was=20always=20under=20the=20impression=20=
that=20it=20
was=20solely
=20a
=20job=20training=20center=20AKA=20an=20ITT=20tech=20or=20a=20Western=20Sch=
ool=20Of=20
Health=20And
=20business!
=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
=20From:=20"Ashley=20Bramlett"=20<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
=20To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"
=20<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20Sent:=20Monday,=20March=2026,=202012=2011:49=20AM
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Careers=20in=20assistive=20technology


=20Brian,
=20it=92s=20a=20training=20center=20that=20provides=20independent=20living=
=20and=20job
=20training.
=20They=20provide=20training=20in=20help=20desk=20support=20and=20other=20I=
=20T=20stuff.
=20It=92s=20a=20training=20facility,=20=20not=20a=20job=20placement=20agenc=
y.=20=20so,=20it=20
will=20not
=20gaurantee=20employment.
=20I=20say=20let=20the=20programs=20run.=20=20If=20you=20don't=20like=20it,=
=20don't=20go=20
there,=20but
=20they

=20must=20=20be=20helping=20some=20people=20improve=20their=20lives.

=20Ashley


=20-----Original=20Message-----
=20From:=20Brian=20Hatgelakas
=20Sent:=20Monday,=20March=2026,=202012=2010:25=20AM
=20To:=20nimerjaber1 at gmail.com=20;=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20=

Students
=20mailing

=20list
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Careers=20in=20assistive=20technology

=20If=20no=20employment=20is=20provided=20why=20not=20terminate=20all=20pro=
grams=20
accept=20the
=20IRS
=20program?=20=20My=20question=20is=20how=20much=20money=20is=20being=20was=
ted=20by=20state
=20agencies
=20on
=20useless=20programs=20at=20this=20center?=20=20I=20believe=20someone=20ne=
eds=20to=20do=20
an
=20investigative=20article=20on=20this=20topic.
=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
=20From:=20"Nimer=20M.=20=20Jaber,=20IC=B3"=20<nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
=20To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"
=20<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20Sent:=20Sunday,=20March=2025,=202012=2010:54=20PM
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Careers=20in=20assistive=20technology


=20Joshua,

=20The=20only=20programs=20that=20will=20hire=20directly=20from=20WSB=20are=
=20the=20IRS
=20programs=20and=20they=20are=20not=20directly=20affiliated=20with=20WSB.=
=20=20You=20can=20
go=20to
=20any=20other=20IRS=20class=20and=20get=20the=20same=20offered=20position.=
=20=20WSB=20just
=20happens=20to=20be=20the=20location=20of=20an=20IRS=20training=20sight.=20=
=20The=20
employees
=20that=20teach=20those=20classes=20work=20directly=20for=20the=20IRS,=20an=
d=20the=20
computer
=20network=20used=20is=20solely=20for=20the=20IRS=20which=20makes=20the=20I=
RS=20classes=20
and=20WSB
=20two=20separate=20entities=20in=20my=20mind.=20=20Even=20if=20you=20wish=
=20to=20count=20the=20
IRS
=20classes=20as=20belonging=20to=20WSB,=20they=20have=20a=20bunch=20of=20ot=
her=20programs=20
that
=20will=20not=20provide=20employment=20once=20a=20program=20has=20been=20te=
rminated=20
and=20a
=20client=20has=20graduated=20successfully.

=20Thanks.

=20On=2025.03.2012,=20Nimer=20M.=20=20Jaber,=20IC=B3=20<nimerjaber1 at gmail.c=
om>=20
wrote:
=20Joshua,=20she=20went=20to=20Tyler=20Texas=20to=20teach=20with=20Jan=20at=
=20the=20Tyler=20
Light
=20House.

=20Desiree,=20as=20part=20of=20the=20ATI=20program,=20clients=20will=20rece=
ive=20a=20set=20
amount
=20of=20hours=20(that's=20not=20really=20counted)=20of=20practical=20experi=
ence=20
which=20is
=20the=20teaching=20of=20students=20for=20them=20that=20I=20mentioned,=20yo=
u=20receive=20
an=20ic=B3
=20certification=20which=20is=20outdated,=20hardly=20ever=20used=20or=20hea=
rd=20of,=20
and
=20mostly=20is=20unrelated=20to=20assistive=20technology,=20and=20because=20=
of=20my=20
request
=20that=20I=20put=20forward=20you=20now=20will=20attempt=20to=20pass=20the=
=20Freedom=20
Scientific
=20JAWS=20cert=20which=20again,=20isn't=20worth=20a=20whole=20lot=20seeing=
=20how=20it=20
places
=20much=20of=20its=20emphasis=20on=20how=20to=20access=20help=20and=20where=
=20to=20get=20
training
=20more=20than=20knowing=20how=20to=20most=20efficiently=20utilize=20the=20=
functions=20
of=20the
=20screen=20reader.=20=20For=20all=20of=20this,=20the=20training=20supposed=
ly=20takes=20
nine
=20months=20although=20I=20finished=20up=20in=20under=20four.=20=20This=20w=
as=20the=20old=20
program.
=20Now,=20the=20new=20instructor=20has=20been=20incorporating=20lessons=20o=
n=20
teaching
=20modalities,=20eye=20conditions,=20making=20equipment=20recommendations=20=
and
=20communicating=20with=20state=20Rehab=20counselors,=20etc=20etc.=20=20You=
=20don't=20
receive
=20a=20certification=20in=20any=20of=20this,=20unless=20you=20call=20a=20li=
ttle=20piece=20
of
=20paper=20and=20a=20pin=20from=20WSB=20telling=20you=20good=20job=20and=20=
that=20you=20
graduated
=20to=20be=20a=20certification.=20=20This=20is=20why=20I=20don't=20consider=
=20WSB=20to=20be=20a
=20school.=20=20Technically=20I'm=20sure=20they=20have=20to=20have=20some=20=

accreditation=20or
=20other=20to=20provide=20the=20services=20that=20they=20do,=20but=20I'm=20=
sure=20that=20if=20
they
=20are=20meeting=20the=20standards=20for=20it,=20they're=20barely=20doing=20=
so.=20=20And
=20sanitation=20issues=20in=20their=20buildings=20are=20pretty=20bad.=20=20=
They=20have=20
an
=20antiquated=20heating=20and=20cooling=20system=20that=20can=20not=20be=20=
switched=20
from
=20heat=20to=20AC=20quickly=20meaning=20that=20they=20will=20only=20make=20=
the=20switch=20
twice=20a
=20year,=20there=20are=20many=20bugs=20and=20some=20of=20the=20food=20provi=
ded=20is
=20unrecognizable,=20although=20when=20boar=20members=20are=20present=20the=
y=20do=20a=20
half
=20decent=20job.

=20Thanks.

=20On=2025.03.2012,=20Desiree=20Oudinot=20<turtlepower17 at gmail.com>=20wrote=
:
=20Hi,
=20So,=20if=20it's=20not=20a=20school,=20does=20that=20mean=20the=20accredi=
tation=20is
=20worthless?=20I'm=20just=20trying=20to=20understand=20that=20part=20of=20=
it.=20=20I=20
wouldn't
=20attend=20there,=20because=20I've=20heard=20some=20disturbing=20stories,=
=20to=20put=20
it
=20lightly,=20about=20sanitation=20issues=20in=20the=20dorms.

=20On=203/25/12,=20Joshua=20Lester=20<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>=20
wrote:
=20I=20attended=20there,=20under=20the=20influence=20of=20my=20VR=20counsel=
or.
=20What=20a=20mistake!
=20I=20wanted=20to=20get=20in=20their=20AT=20program,=20but=20it=20was=20to=
o=20full.
=20They=20have=20an=20awesome=20ATI,=20(Assistive=20Technology=20Instructor=
,)=20
program,
=20that=20I=20would=20have=20highly=20recommended,=20if=20they=20had=20the=
=20
instructor,
=20that
=20I=20had.
=20We=20called=20her=20Ms=20Z.
=20Anyone=20remember=20her?
=20Blessings,Joshua

=20On=203/25/12,=20Nimer=20M.=20=20Jaber,=20IC=B3=20<nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>=
=20wrote:
=20Joshua,

=20LWSB=20is=20not=20a=20school,=20and=20I=20definitely=20wouldn't=20recomm=
end=20it=20for
=20several=20reasons.=20=20First,=20the=20program=20is=20being=20modified=20=
heavily=20
under
=20the=20influence=20of=20a=20new=20tech=20instructor=20they've=20just=20hi=
red,=20so=20I
=20would
=20say=20wait=20till=20everything's=20worked=20out.=20=20Second,=20there=20=
are=20quite=20
a=20few
=20places=20where=20mentioning=20"LWSB"=20will=20not=20land=20you=20work=20=
because=20of=20
its
=20reputation=20in=20the=20past.=20=20And,=20as=20mentioned,=20it=20is=20no=
t=20a=20school=20
which
=20means=20that=20you=20really=20can't=20depend=20on=20it=20for=20finding=20=
any=20kind=20of
=20employment.

=20Thanks.

=20On=2025.03.2012,=20Joshua=20Lester=20<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>=20=

wrote:
=20http://www.lwsb.org
=20Blessings,=20Joshua

=20On=203/25/12,=20Kayla=20Paige=20<kayla.mattox at cox.net>=20wrote:
=20Hi,=20I=20have=20a=20question.=20=20What=20kind=20of=20school=20would=20=
you=20go=20to=20for=20
a
=20career
=20in
=20assistive=20technology?=20Even=20though=20I'm=20going=20to=20school=20fo=
r=20
massage
=20therapy,
=20my=20other=20interest=20is=20assistive=20technology.=20=20Thanks.
=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info
=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
0students.pccua.edu


=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info
=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
0gmail.com



=20--
=20Nimer=20Jaber,=20IC=B3=20and=20Freedom=20Scientific=20JAWS=20Certificati=
ons

=20The=20message=20above=20is=20intended=20for=20the=20recipient=20to=20who=
m=20it=20was
=20addressed.=20=20If=20you=20believe=20that=20you=20are=20not=20the=20inte=
nded=20
recipient,
=20please=20notify=20me=20via=20reply=20email=20and=20destroy=20all=20copie=
s=20of=20this
=20correspondence.=20=20Action=20taken=20as=20a=20result=20of=20this=20emai=
l=20or=20its
=20contents
=20by=20anyone=20other=20than=20the=20intended=20recipient=20may=20result=20=
in=20civil=20
or
=20criminal=20action.=20=20I=20have=20checked=20this=20email=20and=20all=20=

corresponding
=20attachments=20for=20security=20threats.=20=20However,=20security=20of=20=
your=20
machine
=20is
=20up=20to=20you.=20=20Thanks.

=20Registered=20Linux=20User=20529141.
=20http://counter.li.org/
=20Vinux=20testing=20and=20documentation=20coordinator
=20To=20get=20more=20information=20about=20a=20free=20and=20accessible=20op=
erating
=20system,
=20please=20click=20here:
=20http://www.vinuxproject.org

=20To=20find=20out=20about=20a=20free=20and=20versatile=20screen=20reader=20=
for=20windows=20
XP
=20and=20above,=20please=20click=20here:
=20http://www.nvda-project.org

=20You=20can=20follow=20 at nimerjaber=20on=20Twitter=20for=20the=20latest=20t=
echnology
=20news.

=20Check=20out=20my=20blog=20related=20to=20technology=20by=20clicking=20he=
re:
=20http://nimertech.blogspot.com

=20To=20contact=20me,=20you=20can=20reply=20to=20this=20email=20or=20you=20=
may=20call=20me=20at
=20(720)
=20(251-4530)=20and=20I=20will=20do=20my=20best=20to=20respond=20to=20you=20=
promptly.

=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info
=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
0students.pccua.edu


=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17
%40gmail.com


=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
0gmail.com



=20--
=20Nimer=20Jaber,=20IC=B3=20and=20Freedom=20Scientific=20JAWS=20Certificati=
ons

=20The=20message=20above=20is=20intended=20for=20the=20recipient=20to=20who=
m=20it=20was
=20addressed.=20=20If=20you=20believe=20that=20you=20are=20not=20the=20inte=
nded=20
recipient,
=20please=20notify=20me=20via=20reply=20email=20and=20destroy=20all=20copie=
s=20of=20this
=20correspondence.=20=20Action=20taken=20as=20a=20result=20of=20this=20emai=
l=20or=20its=20
contents
=20by=20anyone=20other=20than=20the=20intended=20recipient=20may=20result=20=
in=20civil=20
or
=20criminal=20action.=20=20I=20have=20checked=20this=20email=20and=20all=20=

corresponding
=20attachments=20for=20security=20threats.=20=20However,=20security=20of=20=
your=20
machine=20is
=20up=20to=20you.=20=20Thanks.

=20Registered=20Linux=20User=20529141.
=20http://counter.li.org/
=20Vinux=20testing=20and=20documentation=20coordinator
=20To=20get=20more=20information=20about=20a=20free=20and=20accessible=20op=
erating=20
system,
=20please=20click=20here:
=20http://www.vinuxproject.org

=20To=20find=20out=20about=20a=20free=20and=20versatile=20screen=20reader=20=
for=20windows=20
XP
=20and=20above,=20please=20click=20here:
=20http://www.nvda-project.org

=20You=20can=20follow=20 at nimerjaber=20on=20Twitter=20for=20the=20latest=20t=
echnology=20
news.

=20Check=20out=20my=20blog=20related=20to=20technology=20by=20clicking=20he=
re:
=20http://nimertech.blogspot.com

=20To=20contact=20me,=20you=20can=20reply=20to=20this=20email=20or=20you=20=
may=20call=20me=20at=20
(720)
=20(251-4530)=20and=20I=20will=20do=20my=20best=20to=20respond=20to=20you=20=
promptly.



=20--
=20Nimer=20Jaber,=20IC=B3=20and=20Freedom=20Scientific=20JAWS=20Certificati=
ons

=20The=20message=20above=20is=20intended=20for=20the=20recipient=20to=20who=
m=20it=20was
=20addressed.=20=20If=20you=20believe=20that=20you=20are=20not=20the=20inte=
nded=20
recipient,
=20please=20notify=20me=20via=20reply=20email=20and=20destroy=20all=20copie=
s=20of=20this
=20correspondence.=20=20Action=20taken=20as=20a=20result=20of=20this=20emai=
l=20or=20its=20
contents
=20by=20anyone=20other=20than=20the=20intended=20recipient=20may=20result=20=
in=20civil=20
or
=20criminal=20action.=20=20I=20have=20checked=20this=20email=20and=20all=20=

corresponding
=20attachments=20for=20security=20threats.=20=20However,=20security=20of=20=
your=20
machine=20is
=20up=20to=20you.=20=20Thanks.

=20Registered=20Linux=20User=20529141.
=20http://counter.li.org/
=20Vinux=20testing=20and=20documentation=20coordinator
=20To=20get=20more=20information=20about=20a=20free=20and=20accessible=20op=
erating=20
system,
=20please=20click=20here:
=20http://www.vinuxproject.org

=20To=20find=20out=20about=20a=20free=20and=20versatile=20screen=20reader=20=
for=20windows=20
XP
=20and=20above,=20please=20click=20here:
=20http://www.nvda-project.org

=20You=20can=20follow=20 at nimerjaber=20on=20Twitter=20for=20the=20latest=20t=
echnology=20
news.

=20Check=20out=20my=20blog=20related=20to=20technology=20by=20clicking=20he=
re:
=20http://nimertech.blogspot.com

=20To=20contact=20me,=20you=20can=20reply=20to=20this=20email=20or=20you=20=
may=20call=20me=20at=20
(720)
=20(251-4530)=20and=20I=20will=20do=20my=20best=20to=20respond=20to=20you=20=
promptly.

=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela
kas%40verizon.net



=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
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0earthlink.net

=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
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kas%40verizon.net




=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
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40gmail..com


=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
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kas%40verizon.net



=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
0students.pccua.edu


_______________________________________________
nabs-l=20mailing=20list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco=
unt=20info=20
for
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kas%40verizon.net



_______________________________________________
nabs-l=20mailing=20list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco=
unt=20info=20
for=20nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Mar 30 00:24:58 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:24:58 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Needing the Koran for a Research Paper
Message-ID: <4f74fd6e.81cde00a.7e5a.6853@mx.google.com>

Hi Jewel,

Did you try Bookshare? RFBD? By the way, you can also search for 
words/phrases if you were to get a BRF version of the Koran by 
using the find command on any Braille notetaker.  I know the find 
command on the BrailleNote is space with f; not sure about the 
BrailleSense, PacMate, or Braille Plus/Icon though.  Sorry I 
can't be of more help.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Tue, 27 Mar 2012 14:24:00 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Needing the Koran for a Research Paper

Dear all,
I'm working on a history paper that I need to cite the Koran for, 
but
I can't find the full text of the Koran in daisy format anywhere.  
I'd
much rather it in daisy format than anything, so I can search for
specific words/phrases even at home where I don't have interent.  
I
found an online Koran, but not a daisy book.  Does anyone know of 
one,
and if not, why isn't it out there? There's plenty of versions of 
the
Bible in daisy format, so why not the Koran?

Hoping to find it,
Jewel Shuping
herekittykat2 at gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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m%40gmail.com


From gpaikens at gmail.com  Fri Mar 30 00:37:59 2012
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:37:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Needing the Koran for a Research Paper
In-Reply-To: <CABORmNuPPZN2JOHtve4RovbNYH4q54LXW0bU-MaTPtHaCS2o6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CABORmNtW09_4YxOModySptKUC7QzRS_kfGmi-KWWN9nepmHrEQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD0KW=bzGNc8irVCC84ZBK7z2u6d=4fT-zuyVZAbXxva0uURdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD0KW=ZHrdYChBp9gZLnttMj7OpJiJ3kPVcjV3X56-ZsAekJ1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABORmNuPPZN2JOHtve4RovbNYH4q54LXW0bU-MaTPtHaCS2o6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CA62292-DB18-4D17-A507-E1B9B0F1E09A@gmail.com>

You can also try the Sacred Texts online site.  It appears they have several translation in english.  The link is:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/index.htm

-Greg
On Mar 29, 2012, at 1:25 PM, Jewel wrote:

> Hey, thanks for pointing out the Koran on BARD. I completely missed
> it. It'll help me some, and what I don't get from the audio version,
> I'll get from the online version. I'm hoping to get the Koran put on
> Bookshare, too, though. Again, thanks for pointing out the Koran on
> BARD to me...somehow I completely missed it!
> 
> Thanks,
> Jewel
> 
> On 3/27/12, Lea williams <leanicole1988 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> This book is audio, did you want text? You said to surtch for words
>> and stuff... not sure how you would do that in audio. Try bookshare
>> maybe if so?
>> 
>> 
>> On 3/27/12, Lea williams <leanicole1988 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> There is this book...
>>> The Koran
>>> Dawood, N. J. Read by Hugh Carney. Reading time 18 hours 11 minutes.
>>> Religion
>>> Translated by N. J. Dawood, this earliest work of classical Arabic is
>>> the sacred scripture of Islam as revealed to the Prophet Mohammed by
>>> the Angel Gabriel. 1966.
>>> Download The Koran, DB7789
>>> 
>>> I found it on the bard website.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 3/27/12, Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Dear all,
>>>> I'm working on a history paper that I need to cite the Koran for, but
>>>> I can't find the full text of the Koran in daisy format anywhere. I'd
>>>> much rather it in daisy format than anything, so I can search for
>>>> specific words/phrases even at home where I don't have interent. I
>>>> found an online Koran, but not a daisy book. Does anyone know of one,
>>>> and if not, why isn't it out there? There's plenty of versions of the
>>>> Bible in daisy format, so why not the Koran?
>>>> 
>>>> Hoping to find it,
>>>> Jewel Shuping
>>>> herekittykat2 at gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leanicole1988%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Lea Williams
>>> 
>>> Phone;
>>> 704-732-4470
>>> Skipe;
>>> Lea.williams738
>>> Facebook
>>> http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
>>> Twitter
>>> http://twitter.com/LeaNicole1988
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Lea Williams
>> 
>> Phone;
>> 704-732-4470
>> Skipe;
>> Lea.williams738
>> Facebook
>> http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
>> Twitter
>> http://twitter.com/LeaNicole1988
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com



From troubleclark at gmail.com  Fri Mar 30 13:24:07 2012
From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:24:07 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <4f74fd36.81cde00a.7e5a.6836@mx.google.com>
References: <4f74fd36.81cde00a.7e5a.6836@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAB4OJj4xj4XLqqeCawD7BoWrCAB0_=ERfNp5HD6kkCWYxJftcQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear List
I totally agree with Chris' comment. The NFB training centers are
incredible and the people who work there are extremely supportive. As
a person who went to CCb in 2006 and 2008 I believe going there was
the best decision I have made about my independence.

Sincerely,
Nathan Clark

On 3/29/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> All these complaints against what we NFB members call
> "traditional rehab centers" and their policies make the NFB
> training centers and their practices that much better! From what
> I know about many of you from previous posts on this list, you
> like the NFB philosophy and the fact that we believe blind people
> can and should be expected to be as independent as we can.  So,
> why not go to an adult program at an NFB center? They offer the
> same type of program and teach the same skills as traditional
> facilities such as LWSB, but the NFB centers believe in teaching
> independence and won't force you to take a class you don't need.
> I encourage you all to check them out!
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> Sent from my BrailleNote
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brian Hatgelakas" <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  sent: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:29:06 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
> Why would they make you take a TDL class if you are already doing
> the stuff
> on your own?  If I went to a center for a job placement program
> I'd show
> them right away and try to opt out of the class.  Couldn't you
> have done
> this.  Seams like those centers bring us independent people down
> to the
> lowest level of people that don't know anything about living
> independently
> at first before you can get to the programs you are actually
> paying for.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 7:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>
> They train people in Daily living skills, because I was forced to
> take
> that TDL, (Techniques of Daily Living,) class!
> I hated it, because it was stuff, I already knew, and was doing
> on my own!
> Theresa Bailey taught it, and it was horible!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
> wrote:
>  I thought that LWSB didn't train people on daily living skills.
> That's
>  what
>  I said!
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:28 PM
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>
>  Dear Brian,
>  What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job
> training program?
>  Sincerely,
>  Nathan
>
>  On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
> wrote:
>  I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol
> Center's
>  and
>  Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it
> was solely
>  a
>  job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of
> Health And
>  business!
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>
>  Brian,
>  it’s a training center that provides independent living and job
>  training.
>  They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>  It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency.  so, it
> will not
>  gaurantee employment.
>  I say let the programs run.  If you don't like it, don't go
> there, but
>  they
>
>  must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>
>  Ashley
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Brian Hatgelakas
>  Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>  To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind
> Students
>  mailing
>
>  list
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>  If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs
> accept the
>  IRS
>  program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state
>  agencies
>  on
>  useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do
> an
>  investigative article on this topic.
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>
>  Joshua,
>
>  The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>  programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB.  You can
> go to
>  any other IRS class and get the same offered position.  WSB just
>  happens to be the location of an IRS training sight.  The
> employees
>  that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the
> computer
>  network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes
> and WSB
>  two separate entities in my mind.  Even if you wish to count the
> IRS
>  classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs
> that
>  will not provide employment once a program has been terminated
> and a
>  client has graduated successfully.
>
>  Thanks.
>
>  On 25.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler
> Light
>  House.
>
>  Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set
> amount
>  of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience
> which is
>  the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive
> an icł
>  certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of,
> and
>  mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my
> request
>  that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom
> Scientific
>  JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it
> places
>  much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get
> training
>  more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions
> of the
>  screen reader.  For all of this, the training supposedly takes
> nine
>  months although I finished up in under four.  This was the old
> program.
>  Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on
> teaching
>  modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>  communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc.  You don't
> receive
>  a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece
> of
>  paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you
> graduated
>  to be a certification.  This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>  school.  Technically I'm sure they have to have some
> accreditation or
>  other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if
> they
>  are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so.  And
>  sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad.  They have
> an
>  antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched
> from
>  heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch
> twice a
>  year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>  unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a
> half
>  decent job.
>
>  Thanks.
>
>  On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi,
>  So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>  worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it.  I
> wouldn't
>  attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put
> it
>  lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>
>  On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>  I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>  What a mistake!
>  I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>  They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,)
> program,
>  that I would have highly recommended, if they had the
> instructor,
>  that
>  I had.
>  We called her Ms Z.
>  Anyone remember her?
>  Blessings,Joshua
>
>  On 3/25/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Joshua,
>
>  LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>  several reasons.  First, the program is being modified heavily
> under
>  the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
>  would
>  say wait till everything's worked out.  Second, there are quite
> a few
>  places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of
> its
>  reputation in the past.  And, as mentioned, it is not a school
> which
>  means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>  employment.
>
>  Thanks.
>
>  On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>  http://www.lwsb.org
>  Blessings, Joshua
>
>  On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>  Hi, I have a question.  What kind of school would you go to for
> a
>  career
>  in
>  assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for
> massage
>  therapy,
>  my other interest is assistive technology.  Thanks.
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
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>
>
>  _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>  --
>  Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>  addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
> recipient,
>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>  correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>  contents
>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
> or
>  criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
> corresponding
>  attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
> machine
>  is
>  up to you.  Thanks.
>
>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>  http://counter.li.org/
>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>  system,
>  please click here:
>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
> XP
>  and above, please click here:
>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>
>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>  news.
>
>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>  (720)
>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
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>
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>
>  --
>  Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>  addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
> recipient,
>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>  correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
> contents
>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
> or
>  criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
> corresponding
>  attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
> machine is
>  up to you.  Thanks.
>
>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>  http://counter.li.org/
>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
> system,
>  please click here:
>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
> XP
>  and above, please click here:
>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>
>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
> news.
>
>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
> (720)
>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>
>
>  --
>  Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>
>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>  addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
> recipient,
>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>  correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
> contents
>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
> or
>  criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
> corresponding
>  attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
> machine is
>  up to you.  Thanks.
>
>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>  http://counter.li.org/
>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
> system,
>  please click here:
>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
> XP
>  and above, please click here:
>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>
>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
> news.
>
>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
> (720)
>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>
>
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From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Fri Mar 30 13:37:35 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:37:35 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
References: <4f74fd36.81cde00a.7e5a.6836@mx.google.com>
	<CAB4OJj4xj4XLqqeCawD7BoWrCAB0_=ERfNp5HD6kkCWYxJftcQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001501cd0e7a$44c62e10$1400ba43@BRIAN>

    Why won't all states pay for NFB center training just curious.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 9:24 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


> Dear List
> I totally agree with Chris' comment. The NFB training centers are
> incredible and the people who work there are extremely supportive. As
> a person who went to CCb in 2006 and 2008 I believe going there was
> the best decision I have made about my independence.
>
> Sincerely,
> Nathan Clark
>
> On 3/29/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> All these complaints against what we NFB members call
>> "traditional rehab centers" and their policies make the NFB
>> training centers and their practices that much better! From what
>> I know about many of you from previous posts on this list, you
>> like the NFB philosophy and the fact that we believe blind people
>> can and should be expected to be as independent as we can.  So,
>> why not go to an adult program at an NFB center? They offer the
>> same type of program and teach the same skills as traditional
>> facilities such as LWSB, but the NFB centers believe in teaching
>> independence and won't force you to take a class you don't need.
>> I encourage you all to check them out!
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brian Hatgelakas" <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  sent: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:29:06 -0400
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>> Why would they make you take a TDL class if you are already doing
>> the stuff
>> on your own?  If I went to a center for a job placement program
>> I'd show
>> them right away and try to opt out of the class.  Couldn't you
>> have done
>> this.  Seams like those centers bring us independent people down
>> to the
>> lowest level of people that don't know anything about living
>> independently
>> at first before you can get to the programs you are actually
>> paying for.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 7:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>>
>> They train people in Daily living skills, because I was forced to
>> take
>> that TDL, (Techniques of Daily Living,) class!
>> I hated it, because it was stuff, I already knew, and was doing
>> on my own!
>> Theresa Bailey taught it, and it was horible!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>  I thought that LWSB didn't train people on daily living skills.
>> That's
>>  what
>>  I said!
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com
>>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:28 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>>
>>  Dear Brian,
>>  What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job
>> training program?
>>  Sincerely,
>>  Nathan
>>
>>  On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>  I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol
>> Center's
>>  and
>>  Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it
>> was solely
>>  a
>>  job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of
>> Health And
>>  business!
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>>
>>  Brian,
>>  it’s a training center that provides independent living and job
>>  training.
>>  They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>>  It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency.  so, it
>> will not
>>  gaurantee employment.
>>  I say let the programs run.  If you don't like it, don't go
>> there, but
>>  they
>>
>>  must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>
>>  Ashley
>>
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: Brian Hatgelakas
>>  Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>>  To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind
>> Students
>>  mailing
>>
>>  list
>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>>  If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs
>> accept the
>>  IRS
>>  program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state
>>  agencies
>>  on
>>  useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do
>> an
>>  investigative article on this topic.
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: "Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
>>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>>
>>  Joshua,
>>
>>  The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>>  programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB.  You can
>> go to
>>  any other IRS class and get the same offered position.  WSB just
>>  happens to be the location of an IRS training sight.  The
>> employees
>>  that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the
>> computer
>>  network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes
>> and WSB
>>  two separate entities in my mind.  Even if you wish to count the
>> IRS
>>  classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs
>> that
>>  will not provide employment once a program has been terminated
>> and a
>>  client has graduated successfully.
>>
>>  Thanks.
>>
>>  On 25.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>  Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler
>> Light
>>  House.
>>
>>  Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set
>> amount
>>  of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience
>> which is
>>  the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive
>> an icł
>>  certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of,
>> and
>>  mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my
>> request
>>  that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom
>> Scientific
>>  JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it
>> places
>>  much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get
>> training
>>  more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions
>> of the
>>  screen reader.  For all of this, the training supposedly takes
>> nine
>>  months although I finished up in under four.  This was the old
>> program.
>>  Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on
>> teaching
>>  modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>  communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc.  You don't
>> receive
>>  a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece
>> of
>>  paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you
>> graduated
>>  to be a certification.  This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>  school.  Technically I'm sure they have to have some
>> accreditation or
>>  other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if
>> they
>>  are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so.  And
>>  sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad.  They have
>> an
>>  antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched
>> from
>>  heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch
>> twice a
>>  year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>  unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a
>> half
>>  decent job.
>>
>>  Thanks.
>>
>>  On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  Hi,
>>  So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>  worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it.  I
>> wouldn't
>>  attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put
>> it
>>  lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>
>>  On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> wrote:
>>  I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>  What a mistake!
>>  I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>  They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,)
>> program,
>>  that I would have highly recommended, if they had the
>> instructor,
>>  that
>>  I had.
>>  We called her Ms Z.
>>  Anyone remember her?
>>  Blessings,Joshua
>>
>>  On 3/25/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  Joshua,
>>
>>  LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>  several reasons.  First, the program is being modified heavily
>> under
>>  the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
>>  would
>>  say wait till everything's worked out.  Second, there are quite
>> a few
>>  places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of
>> its
>>  reputation in the past.  And, as mentioned, it is not a school
>> which
>>  means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>  employment.
>>
>>  Thanks.
>>
>>  On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> wrote:
>>  http://www.lwsb.org
>>  Blessings, Joshua
>>
>>  On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>  Hi, I have a question.  What kind of school would you go to for
>> a
>>  career
>>  in
>>  assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for
>> massage
>>  therapy,
>>  my other interest is assistive technology.  Thanks.
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>  addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>> recipient,
>>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>  correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>  contents
>>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>> or
>>  criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>> corresponding
>>  attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>> machine
>>  is
>>  up to you.  Thanks.
>>
>>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>>  http://counter.li.org/
>>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>  system,
>>  please click here:
>>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>> XP
>>  and above, please click here:
>>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>  news.
>>
>>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>  (720)
>>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
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>>
>>  --
>>  Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>  addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>> recipient,
>>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>  correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>> contents
>>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>> or
>>  criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>> corresponding
>>  attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>> machine is
>>  up to you.  Thanks.
>>
>>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>>  http://counter.li.org/
>>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>> system,
>>  please click here:
>>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>> XP
>>  and above, please click here:
>>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>> news.
>>
>>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>> (720)
>>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>>
>>
>>  --
>>  Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>  addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>> recipient,
>>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>  correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>> contents
>>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>> or
>>  criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>> corresponding
>>  attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>> machine is
>>  up to you.  Thanks.
>>
>>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>>  http://counter.li.org/
>>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>> system,
>>  please click here:
>>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>> XP
>>  and above, please click here:
>>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>> news.
>>
>>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>> (720)
>>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 30 13:43:57 2012
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:43:57 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <001501cd0e7a$44c62e10$1400ba43@BRIAN>
References: <4f74fd36.81cde00a.7e5a.6836@mx.google.com>
	<CAB4OJj4xj4XLqqeCawD7BoWrCAB0_=ERfNp5HD6kkCWYxJftcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501cd0e7a$44c62e10$1400ba43@BRIAN>
Message-ID: <CAF2O2CxDuuVS=RiZzs6=xd-YNgA3bKvb7oXDx0eURAsmarQinQ@mail.gmail.com>

Because not all states or counselors have subscribed to the NFB way of
doing things (like forcing the blindfold issue or the cane issue) for
example. One organization or group's ideas about independence aren't
always the same as another group's ideas.

On 30.03.2012, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>     Why won't all states pay for NFB center training just curious.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 9:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>
>> Dear List
>> I totally agree with Chris' comment. The NFB training centers are
>> incredible and the people who work there are extremely supportive. As
>> a person who went to CCb in 2006 and 2008 I believe going there was
>> the best decision I have made about my independence.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Nathan Clark
>>
>> On 3/29/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> All these complaints against what we NFB members call
>>> "traditional rehab centers" and their policies make the NFB
>>> training centers and their practices that much better! From what
>>> I know about many of you from previous posts on this list, you
>>> like the NFB philosophy and the fact that we believe blind people
>>> can and should be expected to be as independent as we can.  So,
>>> why not go to an adult program at an NFB center? They offer the
>>> same type of program and teach the same skills as traditional
>>> facilities such as LWSB, but the NFB centers believe in teaching
>>> independence and won't force you to take a class you don't need.
>>> I encourage you all to check them out!
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Brian Hatgelakas" <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>  sent: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:29:06 -0400
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>> Why would they make you take a TDL class if you are already doing
>>> the stuff
>>> on your own?  If I went to a center for a job placement program
>>> I'd show
>>> them right away and try to opt out of the class.  Couldn't you
>>> have done
>>> this.  Seams like those centers bring us independent people down
>>> to the
>>> lowest level of people that don't know anything about living
>>> independently
>>> at first before you can get to the programs you are actually
>>> paying for.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 7:20 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>
>>> They train people in Daily living skills, because I was forced to
>>> take
>>> that TDL, (Techniques of Daily Living,) class!
>>> I hated it, because it was stuff, I already knew, and was doing
>>> on my own!
>>> Theresa Bailey taught it, and it was horible!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>  I thought that LWSB didn't train people on daily living skills.
>>> That's
>>>  what
>>>  I said!
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com
>>>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>  Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:28 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>
>>>  Dear Brian,
>>>  What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job
>>> training program?
>>>  Sincerely,
>>>  Nathan
>>>
>>>  On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>  I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol
>>> Center's
>>>  and
>>>  Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it
>>> was solely
>>>  a
>>>  job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of
>>> Health And
>>>  business!
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>  Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>
>>>  Brian,
>>>  it’s a training center that provides independent living and job
>>>  training.
>>>  They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>>>  It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency.  so, it
>>> will not
>>>  gaurantee employment.
>>>  I say let the programs run.  If you don't like it, don't go
>>> there, but
>>>  they
>>>
>>>  must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>>
>>>  Ashley
>>>
>>>
>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>  From: Brian Hatgelakas
>>>  Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>>>  To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind
>>> Students
>>>  mailing
>>>
>>>  list
>>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>  If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs
>>> accept the
>>>  IRS
>>>  program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state
>>>  agencies
>>>  on
>>>  useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do
>>> an
>>>  investigative article on this topic.
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: "Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
>>>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>  Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>
>>>  Joshua,
>>>
>>>  The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>>>  programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB.  You can
>>> go to
>>>  any other IRS class and get the same offered position.  WSB just
>>>  happens to be the location of an IRS training sight.  The
>>> employees
>>>  that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the
>>> computer
>>>  network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes
>>> and WSB
>>>  two separate entities in my mind.  Even if you wish to count the
>>> IRS
>>>  classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs
>>> that
>>>  will not provide employment once a program has been terminated
>>> and a
>>>  client has graduated successfully.
>>>
>>>  Thanks.
>>>
>>>  On 25.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>  Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler
>>> Light
>>>  House.
>>>
>>>  Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set
>>> amount
>>>  of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience
>>> which is
>>>  the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive
>>> an icł
>>>  certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of,
>>> and
>>>  mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my
>>> request
>>>  that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom
>>> Scientific
>>>  JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it
>>> places
>>>  much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get
>>> training
>>>  more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions
>>> of the
>>>  screen reader.  For all of this, the training supposedly takes
>>> nine
>>>  months although I finished up in under four.  This was the old
>>> program.
>>>  Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on
>>> teaching
>>>  modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>>  communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc.  You don't
>>> receive
>>>  a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece
>>> of
>>>  paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you
>>> graduated
>>>  to be a certification.  This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>>  school.  Technically I'm sure they have to have some
>>> accreditation or
>>>  other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if
>>> they
>>>  are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so.  And
>>>  sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad.  They have
>>> an
>>>  antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched
>>> from
>>>  heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch
>>> twice a
>>>  year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>>  unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a
>>> half
>>>  decent job.
>>>
>>>  Thanks.
>>>
>>>  On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  Hi,
>>>  So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>  worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it.  I
>>> wouldn't
>>>  attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put
>>> it
>>>  lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>
>>>  On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>  I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>  What a mistake!
>>>  I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>  They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,)
>>> program,
>>>  that I would have highly recommended, if they had the
>>> instructor,
>>>  that
>>>  I had.
>>>  We called her Ms Z.
>>>  Anyone remember her?
>>>  Blessings,Joshua
>>>
>>>  On 3/25/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  Joshua,
>>>
>>>  LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>  several reasons.  First, the program is being modified heavily
>>> under
>>>  the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
>>>  would
>>>  say wait till everything's worked out.  Second, there are quite
>>> a few
>>>  places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of
>>> its
>>>  reputation in the past.  And, as mentioned, it is not a school
>>> which
>>>  means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>  employment.
>>>
>>>  Thanks.
>>>
>>>  On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>  http://www.lwsb.org
>>>  Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>>  On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>  Hi, I have a question.  What kind of school would you go to for
>>> a
>>>  career
>>>  in
>>>  assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for
>>> massage
>>>  therapy,
>>>  my other interest is assistive technology.  Thanks.
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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-- 
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.


From sjhhirst at gmail.com  Fri Mar 30 15:03:25 2012
From: sjhhirst at gmail.com (Stephanie DeLuca)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:03:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <CAF2O2CxDuuVS=RiZzs6=xd-YNgA3bKvb7oXDx0eURAsmarQinQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f74fd36.81cde00a.7e5a.6836@mx.google.com>
	<CAB4OJj4xj4XLqqeCawD7BoWrCAB0_=ERfNp5HD6kkCWYxJftcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501cd0e7a$44c62e10$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAF2O2CxDuuVS=RiZzs6=xd-YNgA3bKvb7oXDx0eURAsmarQinQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F5264437-1F94-4F4B-A821-2E92076B99BC@gmail.com>

I was thinking about going with the Tennessee Rehab Center to learn some braille, O&M, and interview skills.  I don't really need help on daily living.  Does anyone know the quality of the instruction at this center and can comment on it?

On Mar 30, 2012, at 8:43 AM, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote:

> Because not all states or counselors have subscribed to the NFB way of
> doing things (like forcing the blindfold issue or the cane issue) for
> example. One organization or group's ideas about independence aren't
> always the same as another group's ideas.
> 
> On 30.03.2012, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>    Why won't all states pay for NFB center training just curious.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 9:24 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>> 
>> 
>>> Dear List
>>> I totally agree with Chris' comment. The NFB training centers are
>>> incredible and the people who work there are extremely supportive. As
>>> a person who went to CCb in 2006 and 2008 I believe going there was
>>> the best decision I have made about my independence.
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Nathan Clark
>>> 
>>> On 3/29/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> All these complaints against what we NFB members call
>>>> "traditional rehab centers" and their policies make the NFB
>>>> training centers and their practices that much better! From what
>>>> I know about many of you from previous posts on this list, you
>>>> like the NFB philosophy and the fact that we believe blind people
>>>> can and should be expected to be as independent as we can.  So,
>>>> why not go to an adult program at an NFB center? They offer the
>>>> same type of program and teach the same skills as traditional
>>>> facilities such as LWSB, but the NFB centers believe in teaching
>>>> independence and won't force you to take a class you don't need.
>>>> I encourage you all to check them out!
>>>> 
>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Brian Hatgelakas" <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> sent: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:29:06 -0400
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>> 
>>>> Why would they make you take a TDL class if you are already doing
>>>> the stuff
>>>> on your own?  If I went to a center for a job placement program
>>>> I'd show
>>>> them right away and try to opt out of the class.  Couldn't you
>>>> have done
>>>> this.  Seams like those centers bring us independent people down
>>>> to the
>>>> lowest level of people that don't know anything about living
>>>> independently
>>>> at first before you can get to the programs you are actually
>>>> paying for.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 7:20 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> They train people in Daily living skills, because I was forced to
>>>> take
>>>> that TDL, (Techniques of Daily Living,) class!
>>>> I hated it, because it was stuff, I already knew, and was doing
>>>> on my own!
>>>> Theresa Bailey taught it, and it was horible!
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>> 
>>>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> I thought that LWSB didn't train people on daily living skills.
>>>> That's
>>>> what
>>>> I said!
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:28 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Dear Brian,
>>>> What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job
>>>> training program?
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Nathan
>>>> 
>>>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol
>>>> Center's
>>>> and
>>>> Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it
>>>> was solely
>>>> a
>>>> job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of
>>>> Health And
>>>> business!
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Brian,
>>>> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job
>>>> training.
>>>> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>>>> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency.  so, it
>>>> will not
>>>> gaurantee employment.
>>>> I say let the programs run.  If you don't like it, don't go
>>>> there, but
>>>> they
>>>> 
>>>> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>>> 
>>>> Ashley
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Brian Hatgelakas
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>>>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind
>>>> Students
>>>> mailing
>>>> 
>>>> list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>> 
>>>> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs
>>>> accept the
>>>> IRS
>>>> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state
>>>> agencies
>>>> on
>>>> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do
>>>> an
>>>> investigative article on this topic.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Joshua,
>>>> 
>>>> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>>>> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB.  You can
>>>> go to
>>>> any other IRS class and get the same offered position.  WSB just
>>>> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight.  The
>>>> employees
>>>> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the
>>>> computer
>>>> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes
>>>> and WSB
>>>> two separate entities in my mind.  Even if you wish to count the
>>>> IRS
>>>> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs
>>>> that
>>>> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated
>>>> and a
>>>> client has graduated successfully.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> 
>>>> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler
>>>> Light
>>>> House.
>>>> 
>>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set
>>>> amount
>>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience
>>>> which is
>>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive
>>>> an icł
>>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of,
>>>> and
>>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my
>>>> request
>>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom
>>>> Scientific
>>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it
>>>> places
>>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get
>>>> training
>>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions
>>>> of the
>>>> screen reader.  For all of this, the training supposedly takes
>>>> nine
>>>> months although I finished up in under four.  This was the old
>>>> program.
>>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on
>>>> teaching
>>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc.  You don't
>>>> receive
>>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece
>>>> of
>>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you
>>>> graduated
>>>> to be a certification.  This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>>> school.  Technically I'm sure they have to have some
>>>> accreditation or
>>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if
>>>> they
>>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so.  And
>>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad.  They have
>>>> an
>>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched
>>>> from
>>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch
>>>> twice a
>>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a
>>>> half
>>>> decent job.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> 
>>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it.  I
>>>> wouldn't
>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put
>>>> it
>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>> 
>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>> What a mistake!
>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,)
>>>> program,
>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the
>>>> instructor,
>>>> that
>>>> I had.
>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>> 
>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Joshua,
>>>> 
>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>> several reasons.  First, the program is being modified heavily
>>>> under
>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
>>>> would
>>>> say wait till everything's worked out.  Second, there are quite
>>>> a few
>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of
>>>> its
>>>> reputation in the past.  And, as mentioned, it is not a school
>>>> which
>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>> employment.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> 
>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>> 
>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi, I have a question.  What kind of school would you go to for
>>>> a
>>>> career
>>>> in
>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for
>>>> massage
>>>> therapy,
>>>> my other interest is assistive technology.  Thanks.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>> for
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>> 
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>> recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>> contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>> or
>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>> corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>> machine
>>>> is
>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>> 
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>> system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>> 
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>> XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>> 
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>> news.
>>>> 
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>> 
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>> (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> for
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>> 
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>> recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>> contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>> or
>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>> corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>> machine is
>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>> 
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>> system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>> 
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>> XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>> 
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>> news.
>>>> 
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>> 
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>> (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>> 
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>> recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>> contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>> or
>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>> corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>> machine is
>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>> 
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>> system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>> 
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>> XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>> 
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>> news.
>>>> 
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>> 
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>> (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>> kas%40verizon.net
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>>>> 
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>>>> kas%40verizon.net
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>>>> 
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>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
> 
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
> 
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
> 
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
> 
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
> 
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
> 
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com



From kramc11 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 30 15:30:33 2012
From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:30:33 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
References: <4f74fd36.81cde00a.7e5a.6836@mx.google.com><CAB4OJj4xj4XLqqeCawD7BoWrCAB0_=ERfNp5HD6kkCWYxJftcQ@mail.gmail.com><001501cd0e7a$44c62e10$1400ba43@BRIAN><CAF2O2CxDuuVS=RiZzs6=xd-YNgA3bKvb7oXDx0eURAsmarQinQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<F5264437-1F94-4F4B-A821-2E92076B99BC@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8FF064BA1E9F47D0AA2C0551188FAA74@cadiganpc>

Stephanie,

Don’t discount an NFB center just because you don’t think you require help 
with daily living. I’m certin you will learn some new tips and tricks in an 
NFB center’s home management class. With that being said, if you are an 
expert at all aspects of daily living, they will recognize that, and 
graduate you from the class.



Mark



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephanie DeLuca" <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
To: <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


>I was thinking about going with the Tennessee Rehab Center to learn some 
>braille, O&M, and interview skills.  I don't really need help on daily 
>living.  Does anyone know the quality of the instruction at this center and 
>can comment on it?
>
> On Mar 30, 2012, at 8:43 AM, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote:
>
>> Because not all states or counselors have subscribed to the NFB way of
>> doing things (like forcing the blindfold issue or the cane issue) for
>> example. One organization or group's ideas about independence aren't
>> always the same as another group's ideas.
>>
>> On 30.03.2012, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>    Why won't all states pay for NFB center training just curious.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 9:24 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear List
>>>> I totally agree with Chris' comment. The NFB training centers are
>>>> incredible and the people who work there are extremely supportive. As
>>>> a person who went to CCb in 2006 and 2008 I believe going there was
>>>> the best decision I have made about my independence.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>> Nathan Clark
>>>>
>>>> On 3/29/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> All these complaints against what we NFB members call
>>>>> "traditional rehab centers" and their policies make the NFB
>>>>> training centers and their practices that much better! From what
>>>>> I know about many of you from previous posts on this list, you
>>>>> like the NFB philosophy and the fact that we believe blind people
>>>>> can and should be expected to be as independent as we can.  So,
>>>>> why not go to an adult program at an NFB center? They offer the
>>>>> same type of program and teach the same skills as traditional
>>>>> facilities such as LWSB, but the NFB centers believe in teaching
>>>>> independence and won't force you to take a class you don't need.
>>>>> I encourage you all to check them out!
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Brian Hatgelakas" <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> sent: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:29:06 -0400
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>
>>>>> Why would they make you take a TDL class if you are already doing
>>>>> the stuff
>>>>> on your own?  If I went to a center for a job placement program
>>>>> I'd show
>>>>> them right away and try to opt out of the class.  Couldn't you
>>>>> have done
>>>>> this.  Seams like those centers bring us independent people down
>>>>> to the
>>>>> lowest level of people that don't know anything about living
>>>>> independently
>>>>> at first before you can get to the programs you are actually
>>>>> paying for.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 7:20 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> They train people in Daily living skills, because I was forced to
>>>>> take
>>>>> that TDL, (Techniques of Daily Living,) class!
>>>>> I hated it, because it was stuff, I already knew, and was doing
>>>>> on my own!
>>>>> Theresa Bailey taught it, and it was horible!
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I thought that LWSB didn't train people on daily living skills.
>>>>> That's
>>>>> what
>>>>> I said!
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:28 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Brian,
>>>>> What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job
>>>>> training program?
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Nathan
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol
>>>>> Center's
>>>>> and
>>>>> Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it
>>>>> was solely
>>>>> a
>>>>> job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of
>>>>> Health And
>>>>> business!
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian,
>>>>> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job
>>>>> training.
>>>>> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>>>>> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency.  so, it
>>>>> will not
>>>>> gaurantee employment.
>>>>> I say let the programs run.  If you don't like it, don't go
>>>>> there, but
>>>>> they
>>>>>
>>>>> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>>>>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind
>>>>> Students
>>>>> mailing
>>>>>
>>>>> list
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>
>>>>> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs
>>>>> accept the
>>>>> IRS
>>>>> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state
>>>>> agencies
>>>>> on
>>>>> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do
>>>>> an
>>>>> investigative article on this topic.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>
>>>>> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>>>>> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB.  You can
>>>>> go to
>>>>> any other IRS class and get the same offered position.  WSB just
>>>>> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight.  The
>>>>> employees
>>>>> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the
>>>>> computer
>>>>> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes
>>>>> and WSB
>>>>> two separate entities in my mind.  Even if you wish to count the
>>>>> IRS
>>>>> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs
>>>>> that
>>>>> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated
>>>>> and a
>>>>> client has graduated successfully.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler
>>>>> Light
>>>>> House.
>>>>>
>>>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set
>>>>> amount
>>>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience
>>>>> which is
>>>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive
>>>>> an icł
>>>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of,
>>>>> and
>>>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my
>>>>> request
>>>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom
>>>>> Scientific
>>>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it
>>>>> places
>>>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get
>>>>> training
>>>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions
>>>>> of the
>>>>> screen reader.  For all of this, the training supposedly takes
>>>>> nine
>>>>> months although I finished up in under four.  This was the old
>>>>> program.
>>>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on
>>>>> teaching
>>>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc.  You don't
>>>>> receive
>>>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece
>>>>> of
>>>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you
>>>>> graduated
>>>>> to be a certification.  This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>>>> school.  Technically I'm sure they have to have some
>>>>> accreditation or
>>>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if
>>>>> they
>>>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so.  And
>>>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad.  They have
>>>>> an
>>>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched
>>>>> from
>>>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch
>>>>> twice a
>>>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a
>>>>> half
>>>>> decent job.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it.  I
>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put
>>>>> it
>>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,)
>>>>> program,
>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the
>>>>> instructor,
>>>>> that
>>>>> I had.
>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>
>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>> several reasons.  First, the program is being modified heavily
>>>>> under
>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
>>>>> would
>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out.  Second, there are quite
>>>>> a few
>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of
>>>>> its
>>>>> reputation in the past.  And, as mentioned, it is not a school
>>>>> which
>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>> employment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi, I have a question.  What kind of school would you go to for
>>>>> a
>>>>> career
>>>>> in
>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for
>>>>> massage
>>>>> therapy,
>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology.  Thanks.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>> recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>> contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>> or
>>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>>> corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>>> machine
>>>>> is
>>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>> system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>> XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>> news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>> (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17
>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>> recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>> contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>> or
>>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>>> corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>>> machine is
>>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>> system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>> XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>> news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>> (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
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>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
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>>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>>> machine is
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>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
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>>>>> please click here:
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>>>>> news.
>>>>>
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>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
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>> -- 
>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>>
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
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From kramc11 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 30 15:42:31 2012
From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:42:31 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
References: <4f74fd36.81cde00a.7e5a.6836@mx.google.com><CAB4OJj4xj4XLqqeCawD7BoWrCAB0_=ERfNp5HD6kkCWYxJftcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501cd0e7a$44c62e10$1400ba43@BRIAN>
Message-ID: <87AB315987B04730AC14303B6848868B@cadiganpc>

All states will pay for NFB training centers. However, sometimes it requires 
more fighting to get your way.



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brian Hatgelakas" <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


>    Why won't all states pay for NFB center training just curious.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 9:24 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>
>> Dear List
>> I totally agree with Chris' comment. The NFB training centers are
>> incredible and the people who work there are extremely supportive. As
>> a person who went to CCb in 2006 and 2008 I believe going there was
>> the best decision I have made about my independence.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Nathan Clark
>>
>> On 3/29/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> All these complaints against what we NFB members call
>>> "traditional rehab centers" and their policies make the NFB
>>> training centers and their practices that much better! From what
>>> I know about many of you from previous posts on this list, you
>>> like the NFB philosophy and the fact that we believe blind people
>>> can and should be expected to be as independent as we can.  So,
>>> why not go to an adult program at an NFB center? They offer the
>>> same type of program and teach the same skills as traditional
>>> facilities such as LWSB, but the NFB centers believe in teaching
>>> independence and won't force you to take a class you don't need.
>>> I encourage you all to check them out!
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Brian Hatgelakas" <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>  sent: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:29:06 -0400
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>> Why would they make you take a TDL class if you are already doing
>>> the stuff
>>> on your own?  If I went to a center for a job placement program
>>> I'd show
>>> them right away and try to opt out of the class.  Couldn't you
>>> have done
>>> this.  Seams like those centers bring us independent people down
>>> to the
>>> lowest level of people that don't know anything about living
>>> independently
>>> at first before you can get to the programs you are actually
>>> paying for.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 7:20 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>
>>> They train people in Daily living skills, because I was forced to
>>> take
>>> that TDL, (Techniques of Daily Living,) class!
>>> I hated it, because it was stuff, I already knew, and was doing
>>> on my own!
>>> Theresa Bailey taught it, and it was horible!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>  I thought that LWSB didn't train people on daily living skills.
>>> That's
>>>  what
>>>  I said!
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com
>>>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>  Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:28 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>
>>>  Dear Brian,
>>>  What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job
>>> training program?
>>>  Sincerely,
>>>  Nathan
>>>
>>>  On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>  I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol
>>> Center's
>>>  and
>>>  Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it
>>> was solely
>>>  a
>>>  job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of
>>> Health And
>>>  business!
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>  Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>
>>>  Brian,
>>>  it’s a training center that provides independent living and job
>>>  training.
>>>  They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>>>  It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency.  so, it
>>> will not
>>>  gaurantee employment.
>>>  I say let the programs run.  If you don't like it, don't go
>>> there, but
>>>  they
>>>
>>>  must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>>
>>>  Ashley
>>>
>>>
>>>  -----Original Message-----
>>>  From: Brian Hatgelakas
>>>  Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>>>  To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind
>>> Students
>>>  mailing
>>>
>>>  list
>>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>  If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs
>>> accept the
>>>  IRS
>>>  program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state
>>>  agencies
>>>  on
>>>  useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do
>>> an
>>>  investigative article on this topic.
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>  From: "Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
>>>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>  Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>
>>>  Joshua,
>>>
>>>  The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>>>  programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB.  You can
>>> go to
>>>  any other IRS class and get the same offered position.  WSB just
>>>  happens to be the location of an IRS training sight.  The
>>> employees
>>>  that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the
>>> computer
>>>  network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes
>>> and WSB
>>>  two separate entities in my mind.  Even if you wish to count the
>>> IRS
>>>  classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs
>>> that
>>>  will not provide employment once a program has been terminated
>>> and a
>>>  client has graduated successfully.
>>>
>>>  Thanks.
>>>
>>>  On 25.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>  Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler
>>> Light
>>>  House.
>>>
>>>  Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set
>>> amount
>>>  of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience
>>> which is
>>>  the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive
>>> an icł
>>>  certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of,
>>> and
>>>  mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my
>>> request
>>>  that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom
>>> Scientific
>>>  JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it
>>> places
>>>  much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get
>>> training
>>>  more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions
>>> of the
>>>  screen reader.  For all of this, the training supposedly takes
>>> nine
>>>  months although I finished up in under four.  This was the old
>>> program.
>>>  Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on
>>> teaching
>>>  modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>>  communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc.  You don't
>>> receive
>>>  a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece
>>> of
>>>  paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you
>>> graduated
>>>  to be a certification.  This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>>  school.  Technically I'm sure they have to have some
>>> accreditation or
>>>  other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if
>>> they
>>>  are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so.  And
>>>  sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad.  They have
>>> an
>>>  antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched
>>> from
>>>  heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch
>>> twice a
>>>  year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>>  unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a
>>> half
>>>  decent job.
>>>
>>>  Thanks.
>>>
>>>  On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  Hi,
>>>  So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>  worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it.  I
>>> wouldn't
>>>  attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put
>>> it
>>>  lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>
>>>  On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>  I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>  What a mistake!
>>>  I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>  They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,)
>>> program,
>>>  that I would have highly recommended, if they had the
>>> instructor,
>>>  that
>>>  I had.
>>>  We called her Ms Z.
>>>  Anyone remember her?
>>>  Blessings,Joshua
>>>
>>>  On 3/25/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  Joshua,
>>>
>>>  LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>  several reasons.  First, the program is being modified heavily
>>> under
>>>  the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
>>>  would
>>>  say wait till everything's worked out.  Second, there are quite
>>> a few
>>>  places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of
>>> its
>>>  reputation in the past.  And, as mentioned, it is not a school
>>> which
>>>  means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>  employment.
>>>
>>>  Thanks.
>>>
>>>  On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>  http://www.lwsb.org
>>>  Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>>  On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>  Hi, I have a question.  What kind of school would you go to for
>>> a
>>>  career
>>>  in
>>>  assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for
>>> massage
>>>  therapy,
>>>  my other interest is assistive technology.  Thanks.
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  nabs-l mailing list
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>>>
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>>  Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>  addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>> recipient,
>>>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>  correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>  contents
>>>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>> or
>>>  criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>> corresponding
>>>  attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>> machine
>>>  is
>>>  up to you.  Thanks.
>>>
>>>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>  http://counter.li.org/
>>>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>  system,
>>>  please click here:
>>>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>> XP
>>>  and above, please click here:
>>>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>  news.
>>>
>>>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>  (720)
>>>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>  nabs-l:
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>>>
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>>  Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>  addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>> recipient,
>>>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>  correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>> contents
>>>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>> or
>>>  criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>> corresponding
>>>  attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>> machine is
>>>  up to you.  Thanks.
>>>
>>>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>  http://counter.li.org/
>>>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>> system,
>>>  please click here:
>>>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>> XP
>>>  and above, please click here:
>>>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>> news.
>>>
>>>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>> (720)
>>>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>>  Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>>  The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>  addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>> recipient,
>>>  please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>  correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>> contents
>>>  by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>> or
>>>  criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>> corresponding
>>>  attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>> machine is
>>>  up to you.  Thanks.
>>>
>>>  Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>  http://counter.li.org/
>>>  Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>  To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>> system,
>>>  please click here:
>>>  http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>>  To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>> XP
>>>  and above, please click here:
>>>  http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>>  You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>> news.
>>>
>>>  Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>  http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>>  To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>> (720)
>>>  (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>  nabs-l:
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>>>
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From sjhhirst at gmail.com  Fri Mar 30 15:44:22 2012
From: sjhhirst at gmail.com (Stephanie DeLuca)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:44:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <8FF064BA1E9F47D0AA2C0551188FAA74@cadiganpc>
References: <4f74fd36.81cde00a.7e5a.6836@mx.google.com><CAB4OJj4xj4XLqqeCawD7BoWrCAB0_=ERfNp5HD6kkCWYxJftcQ@mail.gmail.com><001501cd0e7a$44c62e10$1400ba43@BRIAN><CAF2O2CxDuuVS=RiZzs6=xd-YNgA3bKvb7oXDx0eURAsmarQinQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<F5264437-1F94-4F4B-A821-2E92076B99BC@gmail.com>
	<8FF064BA1E9F47D0AA2C0551188FAA74@cadiganpc>
Message-ID: <28636519-E092-490E-866D-219C03C268BB@gmail.com>

Oh, well I wasn't discounting the NFB centers.  They look great!  I live in Nashville though and am a full-time graduate student.  I don't know if I could take so much time off to go through an independent living program.  It'd be great to have some lessons, though.

On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:30 AM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote:

> Stephanie,
> 
> Don’t discount an NFB center just because you don’t think you require help with daily living. I’m certin you will learn some new tips and tricks in an NFB center’s home management class. With that being said, if you are an expert at all aspects of daily living, they will recognize that, and graduate you from the class.
> 
> 
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca" <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
> To: <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
> 
> 
>> I was thinking about going with the Tennessee Rehab Center to learn some braille, O&M, and interview skills.  I don't really need help on daily living.  Does anyone know the quality of the instruction at this center and can comment on it?
>> 
>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 8:43 AM, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote:
>> 
>>> Because not all states or counselors have subscribed to the NFB way of
>>> doing things (like forcing the blindfold issue or the cane issue) for
>>> example. One organization or group's ideas about independence aren't
>>> always the same as another group's ideas.
>>> 
>>> On 30.03.2012, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>   Why won't all states pay for NFB center training just curious.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 9:24 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Dear List
>>>>> I totally agree with Chris' comment. The NFB training centers are
>>>>> incredible and the people who work there are extremely supportive. As
>>>>> a person who went to CCb in 2006 and 2008 I believe going there was
>>>>> the best decision I have made about my independence.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Nathan Clark
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 3/29/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> All these complaints against what we NFB members call
>>>>>> "traditional rehab centers" and their policies make the NFB
>>>>>> training centers and their practices that much better! From what
>>>>>> I know about many of you from previous posts on this list, you
>>>>>> like the NFB philosophy and the fact that we believe blind people
>>>>>> can and should be expected to be as independent as we can.  So,
>>>>>> why not go to an adult program at an NFB center? They offer the
>>>>>> same type of program and teach the same skills as traditional
>>>>>> facilities such as LWSB, but the NFB centers believe in teaching
>>>>>> independence and won't force you to take a class you don't need.
>>>>>> I encourage you all to check them out!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Brian Hatgelakas" <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> sent: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:29:06 -0400
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Why would they make you take a TDL class if you are already doing
>>>>>> the stuff
>>>>>> on your own?  If I went to a center for a job placement program
>>>>>> I'd show
>>>>>> them right away and try to opt out of the class.  Couldn't you
>>>>>> have done
>>>>>> this.  Seams like those centers bring us independent people down
>>>>>> to the
>>>>>> lowest level of people that don't know anything about living
>>>>>> independently
>>>>>> at first before you can get to the programs you are actually
>>>>>> paying for.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 7:20 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> They train people in Daily living skills, because I was forced to
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> that TDL, (Techniques of Daily Living,) class!
>>>>>> I hated it, because it was stuff, I already knew, and was doing
>>>>>> on my own!
>>>>>> Theresa Bailey taught it, and it was horible!
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I thought that LWSB didn't train people on daily living skills.
>>>>>> That's
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> I said!
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:28 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear Brian,
>>>>>> What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job
>>>>>> training program?
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> Nathan
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol
>>>>>> Center's
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it
>>>>>> was solely
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of
>>>>>> Health And
>>>>>> business!
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Brian,
>>>>>> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job
>>>>>> training.
>>>>>> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>>>>>> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency.  so, it
>>>>>> will not
>>>>>> gaurantee employment.
>>>>>> I say let the programs run.  If you don't like it, don't go
>>>>>> there, but
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>>>>>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind
>>>>>> Students
>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs
>>>>>> accept the
>>>>>> IRS
>>>>>> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state
>>>>>> agencies
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> investigative article on this topic.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>>>>>> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB.  You can
>>>>>> go to
>>>>>> any other IRS class and get the same offered position.  WSB just
>>>>>> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight.  The
>>>>>> employees
>>>>>> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the
>>>>>> computer
>>>>>> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes
>>>>>> and WSB
>>>>>> two separate entities in my mind.  Even if you wish to count the
>>>>>> IRS
>>>>>> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated
>>>>>> and a
>>>>>> client has graduated successfully.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler
>>>>>> Light
>>>>>> House.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set
>>>>>> amount
>>>>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience
>>>>>> which is
>>>>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive
>>>>>> an icł
>>>>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my
>>>>>> request
>>>>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom
>>>>>> Scientific
>>>>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it
>>>>>> places
>>>>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get
>>>>>> training
>>>>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> screen reader.  For all of this, the training supposedly takes
>>>>>> nine
>>>>>> months although I finished up in under four.  This was the old
>>>>>> program.
>>>>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on
>>>>>> teaching
>>>>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>>>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc.  You don't
>>>>>> receive
>>>>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you
>>>>>> graduated
>>>>>> to be a certification.  This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>>>>> school.  Technically I'm sure they have to have some
>>>>>> accreditation or
>>>>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so.  And
>>>>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad.  They have
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch
>>>>>> twice a
>>>>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>>>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a
>>>>>> half
>>>>>> decent job.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it.  I
>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,)
>>>>>> program,
>>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the
>>>>>> instructor,
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> I had.
>>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>> several reasons.  First, the program is being modified heavily
>>>>>> under
>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out.  Second, there are quite
>>>>>> a few
>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of
>>>>>> its
>>>>>> reputation in the past.  And, as mentioned, it is not a school
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi, I have a question.  What kind of school would you go to for
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> career
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for
>>>>>> massage
>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology.  Thanks.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info
>>>>>> for
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>> contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>>>> machine
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>> system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>> XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>> news.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17
>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>> contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>> system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>> XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>> news.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>> contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>> system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>> XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>> news.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela
>>>>>> kas%40verizon.net
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
>>>>>> 0earthlink.net
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela
>>>>>> kas%40verizon.net
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%
>>>>>> 40gmail..com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>> kas%40verizon.net
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>> 
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>> 
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>> 
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>> 
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>> 
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
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> 
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From kramc11 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 30 16:12:14 2012
From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:12:14 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
References: <4f74fd36.81cde00a.7e5a.6836@mx.google.com><CAB4OJj4xj4XLqqeCawD7BoWrCAB0_=ERfNp5HD6kkCWYxJftcQ@mail.gmail.com><001501cd0e7a$44c62e10$1400ba43@BRIAN><CAF2O2CxDuuVS=RiZzs6=xd-YNgA3bKvb7oXDx0eURAsmarQinQ@mail.gmail.com><F5264437-1F94-4F4B-A821-2E92076B99BC@gmail.com><8FF064BA1E9F47D0AA2C0551188FAA74@cadiganpc>
	<28636519-E092-490E-866D-219C03C268BB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F52D38AB59434A12A212D96CA69A92CE@cadiganpc>

Stephanie,

I certainly agree with you that logistically it is difficult to take time to 
go to an NFB training center. Do you have summers off? if not, could you 
take a semester of school off?



I went to Blind Inc. the summer between high school and college. It was one 
of the best decisions I ever made. Before going to Blind Inc. I received 
some training from the Carroll Center. The Carroll center is a traditional 
center. The difference and quality of the training was like the difference 
between night and day.



Mark.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephanie DeLuca" <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


> Oh, well I wasn't discounting the NFB centers.  They look great!  I live 
> in Nashville though and am a full-time graduate student.  I don't know if 
> I could take so much time off to go through an independent living program. 
> It'd be great to have some lessons, though.
>
> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:30 AM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote:
>
>> Stephanie,
>>
>> Don’t discount an NFB center just because you don’t think you require 
>> help with daily living. I’m certin you will learn some new tips and 
>> tricks in an NFB center’s home management class. With that being said, 
>> if you are an expert at all aspects of daily living, they will recognize 
>> that, and graduate you from the class.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca" 
>> <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
>> To: <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students 
>> mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>>
>>> I was thinking about going with the Tennessee Rehab Center to learn some 
>>> braille, O&M, and interview skills.  I don't really need help on daily 
>>> living.  Does anyone know the quality of the instruction at this center 
>>> and can comment on it?
>>>
>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 8:43 AM, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote:
>>>
>>>> Because not all states or counselors have subscribed to the NFB way of
>>>> doing things (like forcing the blindfold issue or the cane issue) for
>>>> example. One organization or group's ideas about independence aren't
>>>> always the same as another group's ideas.
>>>>
>>>> On 30.03.2012, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>   Why won't all states pay for NFB center training just curious.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 9:24 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear List
>>>>>> I totally agree with Chris' comment. The NFB training centers are
>>>>>> incredible and the people who work there are extremely supportive. As
>>>>>> a person who went to CCb in 2006 and 2008 I believe going there was
>>>>>> the best decision I have made about my independence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> Nathan Clark
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/29/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> All these complaints against what we NFB members call
>>>>>>> "traditional rehab centers" and their policies make the NFB
>>>>>>> training centers and their practices that much better! From what
>>>>>>> I know about many of you from previous posts on this list, you
>>>>>>> like the NFB philosophy and the fact that we believe blind people
>>>>>>> can and should be expected to be as independent as we can.  So,
>>>>>>> why not go to an adult program at an NFB center? They offer the
>>>>>>> same type of program and teach the same skills as traditional
>>>>>>> facilities such as LWSB, but the NFB centers believe in teaching
>>>>>>> independence and won't force you to take a class you don't need.
>>>>>>> I encourage you all to check them out!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Brian Hatgelakas" <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> sent: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:29:06 -0400
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why would they make you take a TDL class if you are already doing
>>>>>>> the stuff
>>>>>>> on your own?  If I went to a center for a job placement program
>>>>>>> I'd show
>>>>>>> them right away and try to opt out of the class.  Couldn't you
>>>>>>> have done
>>>>>>> this.  Seams like those centers bring us independent people down
>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>> lowest level of people that don't know anything about living
>>>>>>> independently
>>>>>>> at first before you can get to the programs you are actually
>>>>>>> paying for.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 7:20 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They train people in Daily living skills, because I was forced to
>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>> that TDL, (Techniques of Daily Living,) class!
>>>>>>> I hated it, because it was stuff, I already knew, and was doing
>>>>>>> on my own!
>>>>>>> Theresa Bailey taught it, and it was horible!
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> I thought that LWSB didn't train people on daily living skills.
>>>>>>> That's
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> I said!
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:28 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Brian,
>>>>>>> What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job
>>>>>>> training program?
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> Nathan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol
>>>>>>> Center's
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it
>>>>>>> was solely
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of
>>>>>>> Health And
>>>>>>> business!
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brian,
>>>>>>> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job
>>>>>>> training.
>>>>>>> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>>>>>>> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency.  so, it
>>>>>>> will not
>>>>>>> gaurantee employment.
>>>>>>> I say let the programs run.  If you don't like it, don't go
>>>>>>> there, but
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>>>>>>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind
>>>>>>> Students
>>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs
>>>>>>> accept the
>>>>>>> IRS
>>>>>>> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state
>>>>>>> agencies
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> investigative article on this topic.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>>>>>>> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB.  You can
>>>>>>> go to
>>>>>>> any other IRS class and get the same offered position.  WSB just
>>>>>>> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight.  The
>>>>>>> employees
>>>>>>> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the
>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes
>>>>>>> and WSB
>>>>>>> two separate entities in my mind.  Even if you wish to count the
>>>>>>> IRS
>>>>>>> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated
>>>>>>> and a
>>>>>>> client has graduated successfully.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler
>>>>>>> Light
>>>>>>> House.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set
>>>>>>> amount
>>>>>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience
>>>>>>> which is
>>>>>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive
>>>>>>> an icł
>>>>>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my
>>>>>>> request
>>>>>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom
>>>>>>> Scientific
>>>>>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it
>>>>>>> places
>>>>>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get
>>>>>>> training
>>>>>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions
>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>> screen reader.  For all of this, the training supposedly takes
>>>>>>> nine
>>>>>>> months although I finished up in under four.  This was the old
>>>>>>> program.
>>>>>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on
>>>>>>> teaching
>>>>>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>>>>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc.  You don't
>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you
>>>>>>> graduated
>>>>>>> to be a certification.  This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>>>>>> school.  Technically I'm sure they have to have some
>>>>>>> accreditation or
>>>>>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so.  And
>>>>>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad.  They have
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch
>>>>>>> twice a
>>>>>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>>>>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a
>>>>>>> half
>>>>>>> decent job.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it.  I
>>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,)
>>>>>>> program,
>>>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the
>>>>>>> instructor,
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> I had.
>>>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>>> several reasons.  First, the program is being modified heavily
>>>>>>> under
>>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out.  Second, there are quite
>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of
>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>> reputation in the past.  And, as mentioned, it is not a school
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question.  What kind of school would you go to for
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for
>>>>>>> massage
>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology.  Thanks.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>>>>> machine
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17
>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela
>>>>>>> kas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
>>>>>>> 0earthlink.net
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>>>
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>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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>>>
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> _______________________________________________
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> 



From sjhhirst at gmail.com  Fri Mar 30 16:16:16 2012
From: sjhhirst at gmail.com (Stephanie Hirst)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:16:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <F52D38AB59434A12A212D96CA69A92CE@cadiganpc>
References: <4f74fd36.81cde00a.7e5a.6836@mx.google.com>
	<CAB4OJj4xj4XLqqeCawD7BoWrCAB0_=ERfNp5HD6kkCWYxJftcQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<001501cd0e7a$44c62e10$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAF2O2CxDuuVS=RiZzs6=xd-YNgA3bKvb7oXDx0eURAsmarQinQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<F5264437-1F94-4F4B-A821-2E92076B99BC@gmail.com>
	<8FF064BA1E9F47D0AA2C0551188FAA74@cadiganpc>
	<28636519-E092-490E-866D-219C03C268BB@gmail.com>
	<F52D38AB59434A12A212D96CA69A92CE@cadiganpc>
Message-ID: <CAJojENRqdN-GRhJAZ9wa9kKmCOAJgNh1kap8mQ6zN6czfCoP3w@mail.gmail.com>

Hmm that would be difficult.  We'll have to see as time goes on and I
progress towards my degree.  If I happen to defend at a time when I would
have some space before going on to a postdoc or my husband has not defended
yet, then maybe.  Thanks though!

In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
    ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854


On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 11:12 AM, Mark J. Cadigan <kramc11 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Stephanie,
>
> I certainly agree with you that logistically it is difficult to take time
> to go to an NFB training center. Do you have summers off? if not, could you
> take a semester of school off?
>
>
>
> I went to Blind Inc. the summer between high school and college. It was
> one of the best decisions I ever made. Before going to Blind Inc. I
> received some training from the Carroll Center. The Carroll center is a
> traditional center. The difference and quality of the training was like the
> difference between night and day.
>
>
>
> Mark.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca" <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:44 AM
>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>
>  Oh, well I wasn't discounting the NFB centers.  They look great!  I live
>> in Nashville though and am a full-time graduate student.  I don't know if I
>> could take so much time off to go through an independent living program.
>> It'd be great to have some lessons, though.
>>
>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:30 AM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote:
>>
>>  Stephanie,
>>>
>>> Don’t discount an NFB center just because you don’t think you require
>>> help with daily living. I’m certin you will learn some new tips and tricks
>>> in an NFB center’s home management class. With that being said, if you are
>>> an expert at all aspects of daily living, they will recognize that, and
>>> graduate you from the class.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca" <
>>> sjhhirst at gmail.com>
>>> To: <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students
>>> mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:03 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>
>>>
>>>  I was thinking about going with the Tennessee Rehab Center to learn
>>>> some braille, O&M, and interview skills.  I don't really need help on daily
>>>> living.  Does anyone know the quality of the instruction at this center and
>>>> can comment on it?
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 8:43 AM, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Because not all states or counselors have subscribed to the NFB way of
>>>>> doing things (like forcing the blindfold issue or the cane issue) for
>>>>> example. One organization or group's ideas about independence aren't
>>>>> always the same as another group's ideas.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 30.03.2012, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>  Why won't all states pay for NFB center training just curious.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 9:24 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Dear List
>>>>>>> I totally agree with Chris' comment. The NFB training centers are
>>>>>>> incredible and the people who work there are extremely supportive. As
>>>>>>> a person who went to CCb in 2006 and 2008 I believe going there was
>>>>>>> the best decision I have made about my independence.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> Nathan Clark
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/29/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> All these complaints against what we NFB members call
>>>>>>>> "traditional rehab centers" and their policies make the NFB
>>>>>>>> training centers and their practices that much better! From what
>>>>>>>> I know about many of you from previous posts on this list, you
>>>>>>>> like the NFB philosophy and the fact that we believe blind people
>>>>>>>> can and should be expected to be as independent as we can.  So,
>>>>>>>> why not go to an adult program at an NFB center? They offer the
>>>>>>>> same type of program and teach the same skills as traditional
>>>>>>>> facilities such as LWSB, but the NFB centers believe in teaching
>>>>>>>> independence and won't force you to take a class you don't need.
>>>>>>>> I encourage you all to check them out!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Brian Hatgelakas" <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> sent: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:29:06 -0400
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why would they make you take a TDL class if you are already doing
>>>>>>>> the stuff
>>>>>>>> on your own?  If I went to a center for a job placement program
>>>>>>>> I'd show
>>>>>>>> them right away and try to opt out of the class.  Couldn't you
>>>>>>>> have done
>>>>>>>> this.  Seams like those centers bring us independent people down
>>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>>> lowest level of people that don't know anything about living
>>>>>>>> independently
>>>>>>>> at first before you can get to the programs you are actually
>>>>>>>> paying for.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.**edu<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 7:20 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They train people in Daily living skills, because I was forced to
>>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>> that TDL, (Techniques of Daily Living,) class!
>>>>>>>> I hated it, because it was stuff, I already knew, and was doing
>>>>>>>> on my own!
>>>>>>>> Theresa Bailey taught it, and it was horible!
>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I thought that LWSB didn't train people on daily living skills.
>>>>>>>> That's
>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>> I said!
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:28 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Brian,
>>>>>>>> What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job
>>>>>>>> training program?
>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>> Nathan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol
>>>>>>>> Center's
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it
>>>>>>>> was solely
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of
>>>>>>>> Health And
>>>>>>>> business!
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brian,
>>>>>>>> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job
>>>>>>>> training.
>>>>>>>> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>>>>>>>> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency.  so, it
>>>>>>>> will not
>>>>>>>> gaurantee employment.
>>>>>>>> I say let the programs run.  If you don't like it, don't go
>>>>>>>> there, but
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>>>>>>>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind
>>>>>>>> Students
>>>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs
>>>>>>>> accept the
>>>>>>>> IRS
>>>>>>>> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state
>>>>>>>> agencies
>>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> investigative article on this topic.
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
>>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>>>>>>>> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB.  You can
>>>>>>>> go to
>>>>>>>> any other IRS class and get the same offered position.  WSB just
>>>>>>>> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight.  The
>>>>>>>> employees
>>>>>>>> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the
>>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>>> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes
>>>>>>>> and WSB
>>>>>>>> two separate entities in my mind.  Even if you wish to count the
>>>>>>>> IRS
>>>>>>>> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated
>>>>>>>> and a
>>>>>>>> client has graduated successfully.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler
>>>>>>>> Light
>>>>>>>> House.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set
>>>>>>>> amount
>>>>>>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience
>>>>>>>> which is
>>>>>>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive
>>>>>>>> an icł
>>>>>>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my
>>>>>>>> request
>>>>>>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom
>>>>>>>> Scientific
>>>>>>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it
>>>>>>>> places
>>>>>>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get
>>>>>>>> training
>>>>>>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions
>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>> screen reader.  For all of this, the training supposedly takes
>>>>>>>> nine
>>>>>>>> months although I finished up in under four.  This was the old
>>>>>>>> program.
>>>>>>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on
>>>>>>>> teaching
>>>>>>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>>>>>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc.  You don't
>>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you
>>>>>>>> graduated
>>>>>>>> to be a certification.  This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>>>>>>> school.  Technically I'm sure they have to have some
>>>>>>>> accreditation or
>>>>>>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so.  And
>>>>>>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad.  They have
>>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched
>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch
>>>>>>>> twice a
>>>>>>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>>>>>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a
>>>>>>>> half
>>>>>>>> decent job.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>>>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it.  I
>>>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put
>>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.**edu<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,)
>>>>>>>> program,
>>>>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the
>>>>>>>> instructor,
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> I had.
>>>>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>>>> several reasons.  First, the program is being modified heavily
>>>>>>>> under
>>>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
>>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out.  Second, there are quite
>>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of
>>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>>> reputation in the past.  And, as mentioned, it is not a school
>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.**edu<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question.  What kind of school would you go to for
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for
>>>>>>>> massage
>>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology.  Thanks.
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>> jlester8462%4
>>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>> nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>>>>>> machine
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>> jlester8462%4
>>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>> turtlepower17<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17>
>>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>> nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>> brian.hatgela<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela>
>>>>>>>> kas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
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>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>> bookwormahb%4
>>>>>>>> 0earthlink.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
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>>>>>>>> brian.hatgela<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela>
>>>>>>>> kas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>> troubleclark%
>>>>>>>> 40gmail..com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>> brian.hatgela<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela>
>>>>>>>> kas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>>>> jlester8462%4
>>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>>> brian.hatgela<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela>
>>>>>>>> kas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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>>>>>>>> dotkid.nusbau<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau>
>>>>>>>> m%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
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>>>>>>> brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>>> nimerjaber1%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>>>>> sjhhirst%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>>>> kramc11%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________**_________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>>> sjhhirst%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________**_________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
>> kramc11%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com>
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/**options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/**
> sjhhirst%40gmail.com<http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com>
>

From kramc11 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 30 16:17:16 2012
From: kramc11 at gmail.com (Mark J. Cadigan)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:17:16 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
References: <4f74fd36.81cde00a.7e5a.6836@mx.google.com><CAB4OJj4xj4XLqqeCawD7BoWrCAB0_=ERfNp5HD6kkCWYxJftcQ@mail.gmail.com><001501cd0e7a$44c62e10$1400ba43@BRIAN><CAF2O2CxDuuVS=RiZzs6=xd-YNgA3bKvb7oXDx0eURAsmarQinQ@mail.gmail.com><F5264437-1F94-4F4B-A821-2E92076B99BC@gmail.com><8FF064BA1E9F47D0AA2C0551188FAA74@cadiganpc>
	<28636519-E092-490E-866D-219C03C268BB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D7911F312BBB49FE8FD93D1B8F13DFF4@cadiganpc>

Stephanie,

If all you are interested in is improving your technology skills, the 
Carroll Center does offer various online classes.



For improving interviewing skills, there is a company called phone interview 
pro. This company will work with you to help you improve your phone 
interviewing skills. State rehab in my state paid for me to receive this 
interview training.

Mark



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephanie DeLuca" <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


> Oh, well I wasn't discounting the NFB centers.  They look great!  I live 
> in Nashville though and am a full-time graduate student.  I don't know if 
> I could take so much time off to go through an independent living program. 
> It'd be great to have some lessons, though.
>
> On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:30 AM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote:
>
>> Stephanie,
>>
>> Don’t discount an NFB center just because you don’t think you require 
>> help with daily living. I’m certin you will learn some new tips and 
>> tricks in an NFB center’s home management class. With that being said, 
>> if you are an expert at all aspects of daily living, they will recognize 
>> that, and graduate you from the class.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca" 
>> <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
>> To: <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students 
>> mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:03 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>
>>
>>> I was thinking about going with the Tennessee Rehab Center to learn some 
>>> braille, O&M, and interview skills.  I don't really need help on daily 
>>> living.  Does anyone know the quality of the instruction at this center 
>>> and can comment on it?
>>>
>>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 8:43 AM, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote:
>>>
>>>> Because not all states or counselors have subscribed to the NFB way of
>>>> doing things (like forcing the blindfold issue or the cane issue) for
>>>> example. One organization or group's ideas about independence aren't
>>>> always the same as another group's ideas.
>>>>
>>>> On 30.03.2012, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>>   Why won't all states pay for NFB center training just curious.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 9:24 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear List
>>>>>> I totally agree with Chris' comment. The NFB training centers are
>>>>>> incredible and the people who work there are extremely supportive. As
>>>>>> a person who went to CCb in 2006 and 2008 I believe going there was
>>>>>> the best decision I have made about my independence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> Nathan Clark
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/29/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> All these complaints against what we NFB members call
>>>>>>> "traditional rehab centers" and their policies make the NFB
>>>>>>> training centers and their practices that much better! From what
>>>>>>> I know about many of you from previous posts on this list, you
>>>>>>> like the NFB philosophy and the fact that we believe blind people
>>>>>>> can and should be expected to be as independent as we can.  So,
>>>>>>> why not go to an adult program at an NFB center? They offer the
>>>>>>> same type of program and teach the same skills as traditional
>>>>>>> facilities such as LWSB, but the NFB centers believe in teaching
>>>>>>> independence and won't force you to take a class you don't need.
>>>>>>> I encourage you all to check them out!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Brian Hatgelakas" <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> sent: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:29:06 -0400
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why would they make you take a TDL class if you are already doing
>>>>>>> the stuff
>>>>>>> on your own?  If I went to a center for a job placement program
>>>>>>> I'd show
>>>>>>> them right away and try to opt out of the class.  Couldn't you
>>>>>>> have done
>>>>>>> this.  Seams like those centers bring us independent people down
>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>> lowest level of people that don't know anything about living
>>>>>>> independently
>>>>>>> at first before you can get to the programs you are actually
>>>>>>> paying for.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 7:20 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They train people in Daily living skills, because I was forced to
>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>> that TDL, (Techniques of Daily Living,) class!
>>>>>>> I hated it, because it was stuff, I already knew, and was doing
>>>>>>> on my own!
>>>>>>> Theresa Bailey taught it, and it was horible!
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> I thought that LWSB didn't train people on daily living skills.
>>>>>>> That's
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> I said!
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:28 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Brian,
>>>>>>> What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job
>>>>>>> training program?
>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>> Nathan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol
>>>>>>> Center's
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it
>>>>>>> was solely
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of
>>>>>>> Health And
>>>>>>> business!
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brian,
>>>>>>> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job
>>>>>>> training.
>>>>>>> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>>>>>>> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency.  so, it
>>>>>>> will not
>>>>>>> gaurantee employment.
>>>>>>> I say let the programs run.  If you don't like it, don't go
>>>>>>> there, but
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>>>>>>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind
>>>>>>> Students
>>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> list
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs
>>>>>>> accept the
>>>>>>> IRS
>>>>>>> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state
>>>>>>> agencies
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> investigative article on this topic.
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>>>>>>> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB.  You can
>>>>>>> go to
>>>>>>> any other IRS class and get the same offered position.  WSB just
>>>>>>> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight.  The
>>>>>>> employees
>>>>>>> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the
>>>>>>> computer
>>>>>>> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes
>>>>>>> and WSB
>>>>>>> two separate entities in my mind.  Even if you wish to count the
>>>>>>> IRS
>>>>>>> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated
>>>>>>> and a
>>>>>>> client has graduated successfully.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler
>>>>>>> Light
>>>>>>> House.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set
>>>>>>> amount
>>>>>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience
>>>>>>> which is
>>>>>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive
>>>>>>> an icł
>>>>>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my
>>>>>>> request
>>>>>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom
>>>>>>> Scientific
>>>>>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it
>>>>>>> places
>>>>>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get
>>>>>>> training
>>>>>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions
>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>> screen reader.  For all of this, the training supposedly takes
>>>>>>> nine
>>>>>>> months although I finished up in under four.  This was the old
>>>>>>> program.
>>>>>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on
>>>>>>> teaching
>>>>>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>>>>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc.  You don't
>>>>>>> receive
>>>>>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you
>>>>>>> graduated
>>>>>>> to be a certification.  This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>>>>>> school.  Technically I'm sure they have to have some
>>>>>>> accreditation or
>>>>>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if
>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so.  And
>>>>>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad.  They have
>>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch
>>>>>>> twice a
>>>>>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>>>>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a
>>>>>>> half
>>>>>>> decent job.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it.  I
>>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,)
>>>>>>> program,
>>>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the
>>>>>>> instructor,
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> I had.
>>>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>>> several reasons.  First, the program is being modified heavily
>>>>>>> under
>>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out.  Second, there are quite
>>>>>>> a few
>>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of
>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>> reputation in the past.  And, as mentioned, it is not a school
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi, I have a question.  What kind of school would you go to for
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> career
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for
>>>>>>> massage
>>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology.  Thanks.
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>>>>> machine
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17
>>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>>> contents
>>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>>> system,
>>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>>> XP
>>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela
>>>>>>> kas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
>>>>>>> 0earthlink.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela
>>>>>>> kas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%
>>>>>>> 40gmail..com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela
>>>>>>> kas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela
>>>>>>> kas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>>>>>>> m%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com
> 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri Mar 30 16:23:49 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:23:49 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
In-Reply-To: <28636519-E092-490E-866D-219C03C268BB@gmail.com>
References: <4f74fd36.81cde00a.7e5a.6836@mx.google.com><CAB4OJj4xj4XLqqeCawD7BoWrCAB0_=ERfNp5HD6kkCWYxJftcQ@mail.gmail.com><001501cd0e7a$44c62e10$1400ba43@BRIAN><CAF2O2CxDuuVS=RiZzs6=xd-YNgA3bKvb7oXDx0eURAsmarQinQ@mail.gmail.com><F5264437-1F94-4F4B-A821-2E92076B99BC@gmail.com><8FF064BA1E9F47D0AA2C0551188FAA74@cadiganpc>
	<28636519-E092-490E-866D-219C03C268BB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <11A6E4EFC8BD451F87202EC160F657E7@OwnerPC>

Hi all,
gee, there are pros and cons to everywhere you go. If you do not need daily 
living skills, IMO another center where you can just choose the classes you 
need may be better. Sjtephanie, your reasons sound good; I say check out the 
local center and then decide whether it meets your needs.
All states will pay for nfb centers Brian; it just takes persuasion. So you 
asked why they will not pay; they will if you fight.

Neext, if we continue to discuss it, change subject lines. I do not think 
Kayla's original question as to where to obtain education in assistive tech 
was answered. My answer is that there are no dedicated programs; your best 
bet is a degree in rehab teaching which means teaching daily living skills 
but the rehab teacehers also now can teach some technology. another way to 
show some competence is taking the jaws certification test.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Stephanie DeLuca
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:44 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology

Oh, well I wasn't discounting the NFB centers.  They look great!  I live in 
Nashville though and am a full-time graduate student.  I don't know if I 
could take so much time off to go through an independent living program. 
It'd be great to have some lessons, though.

On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:30 AM, Mark J. Cadigan wrote:

> Stephanie,
>
> Don’t discount an NFB center just because you don’t think you require 
> help with daily living. I’m certin you will learn some new tips and 
> tricks in an NFB center’s home management class. With that being said, if 
> you are an expert at all aspects of daily living, they will recognize 
> that, and graduate you from the class.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca" <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
> To: <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students 
> mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:03 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>
>
>> I was thinking about going with the Tennessee Rehab Center to learn some 
>> braille, O&M, and interview skills.  I don't really need help on daily 
>> living.  Does anyone know the quality of the instruction at this center 
>> and can comment on it?
>>
>> On Mar 30, 2012, at 8:43 AM, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ wrote:
>>
>>> Because not all states or counselors have subscribed to the NFB way of
>>> doing things (like forcing the blindfold issue or the cane issue) for
>>> example. One organization or group's ideas about independence aren't
>>> always the same as another group's ideas.
>>>
>>> On 30.03.2012, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>   Why won't all states pay for NFB center training just curious.
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 9:24 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Dear List
>>>>> I totally agree with Chris' comment. The NFB training centers are
>>>>> incredible and the people who work there are extremely supportive. As
>>>>> a person who went to CCb in 2006 and 2008 I believe going there was
>>>>> the best decision I have made about my independence.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>> Nathan Clark
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/29/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> All these complaints against what we NFB members call
>>>>>> "traditional rehab centers" and their policies make the NFB
>>>>>> training centers and their practices that much better! From what
>>>>>> I know about many of you from previous posts on this list, you
>>>>>> like the NFB philosophy and the fact that we believe blind people
>>>>>> can and should be expected to be as independent as we can.  So,
>>>>>> why not go to an adult program at an NFB center? They offer the
>>>>>> same type of program and teach the same skills as traditional
>>>>>> facilities such as LWSB, but the NFB centers believe in teaching
>>>>>> independence and won't force you to take a class you don't need.
>>>>>> I encourage you all to check them out!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Brian Hatgelakas" <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> sent: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:29:06 -0400
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why would they make you take a TDL class if you are already doing
>>>>>> the stuff
>>>>>> on your own?  If I went to a center for a job placement program
>>>>>> I'd show
>>>>>> them right away and try to opt out of the class.  Couldn't you
>>>>>> have done
>>>>>> this.  Seams like those centers bring us independent people down
>>>>>> to the
>>>>>> lowest level of people that don't know anything about living
>>>>>> independently
>>>>>> at first before you can get to the programs you are actually
>>>>>> paying for.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 7:20 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They train people in Daily living skills, because I was forced to
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> that TDL, (Techniques of Daily Living,) class!
>>>>>> I hated it, because it was stuff, I already knew, and was doing
>>>>>> on my own!
>>>>>> Theresa Bailey taught it, and it was horible!
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I thought that LWSB didn't train people on daily living skills.
>>>>>> That's
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> I said!
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:28 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Brian,
>>>>>> What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job
>>>>>> training program?
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> Nathan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol
>>>>>> Center's
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it
>>>>>> was solely
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of
>>>>>> Health And
>>>>>> business!
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brian,
>>>>>> it’s a training center that provides independent living and job
>>>>>> training.
>>>>>> They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
>>>>>> It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency.  so, it
>>>>>> will not
>>>>>> gaurantee employment.
>>>>>> I say let the programs run.  If you don't like it, don't go
>>>>>> there, but
>>>>>> they
>>>>>>
>>>>>> must  be helping some people improve their lives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ashley
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Brian Hatgelakas
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
>>>>>> To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind
>>>>>> Students
>>>>>> mailing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> list
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs
>>>>>> accept the
>>>>>> IRS
>>>>>> program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state
>>>>>> agencies
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> investigative article on this topic.
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: "Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
>>>>>> programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB.  You can
>>>>>> go to
>>>>>> any other IRS class and get the same offered position.  WSB just
>>>>>> happens to be the location of an IRS training sight.  The
>>>>>> employees
>>>>>> that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the
>>>>>> computer
>>>>>> network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes
>>>>>> and WSB
>>>>>> two separate entities in my mind.  Even if you wish to count the
>>>>>> IRS
>>>>>> classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> will not provide employment once a program has been terminated
>>>>>> and a
>>>>>> client has graduated successfully.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler
>>>>>> Light
>>>>>> House.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set
>>>>>> amount
>>>>>> of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience
>>>>>> which is
>>>>>> the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive
>>>>>> an icł
>>>>>> certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my
>>>>>> request
>>>>>> that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom
>>>>>> Scientific
>>>>>> JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it
>>>>>> places
>>>>>> much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get
>>>>>> training
>>>>>> more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> screen reader.  For all of this, the training supposedly takes
>>>>>> nine
>>>>>> months although I finished up in under four.  This was the old
>>>>>> program.
>>>>>> Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on
>>>>>> teaching
>>>>>> modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
>>>>>> communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc.  You don't
>>>>>> receive
>>>>>> a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you
>>>>>> graduated
>>>>>> to be a certification.  This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
>>>>>> school.  Technically I'm sure they have to have some
>>>>>> accreditation or
>>>>>> other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so.  And
>>>>>> sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad.  They have
>>>>>> an
>>>>>> antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch
>>>>>> twice a
>>>>>> year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
>>>>>> unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a
>>>>>> half
>>>>>> decent job.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
>>>>>> worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it.  I
>>>>>> wouldn't
>>>>>> attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
>>>>>> What a mistake!
>>>>>> I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
>>>>>> They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,)
>>>>>> program,
>>>>>> that I would have highly recommended, if they had the
>>>>>> instructor,
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> I had.
>>>>>> We called her Ms Z.
>>>>>> Anyone remember her?
>>>>>> Blessings,Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Joshua,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
>>>>>> several reasons.  First, the program is being modified heavily
>>>>>> under
>>>>>> the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> say wait till everything's worked out.  Second, there are quite
>>>>>> a few
>>>>>> places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of
>>>>>> its
>>>>>> reputation in the past.  And, as mentioned, it is not a school
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
>>>>>> employment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> http://www.lwsb.org
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi, I have a question.  What kind of school would you go to for
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> career
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for
>>>>>> massage
>>>>>> therapy,
>>>>>> my other interest is assistive technology.  Thanks.
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>> contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>>>> machine
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>> system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>> XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/turtlepower17
>>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%4
>>>>>> 0gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>> contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>> system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>> XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
>>>>>> recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
>>>>>> contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
>>>>>> corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
>>>>>> machine is
>>>>>> up to you.  Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating
>>>>>> system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
>>>>>> XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>>>>>> news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela
>>>>>> kas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
>>>>>> 0earthlink.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela
>>>>>> kas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%
>>>>>> 40gmail..com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela
>>>>>> kas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>>>>>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgela
>>>>>> kas%40verizon.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>>>>>> m%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
>>>
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kramc11%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Fri Mar 30 19:12:34 2012
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 15:12:34 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Needing the Koran for a Research Paper
In-Reply-To: <4CA62292-DB18-4D17-A507-E1B9B0F1E09A@gmail.com>
References: <CABORmNtW09_4YxOModySptKUC7QzRS_kfGmi-KWWN9nepmHrEQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD0KW=bzGNc8irVCC84ZBK7z2u6d=4fT-zuyVZAbXxva0uURdA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAD0KW=ZHrdYChBp9gZLnttMj7OpJiJ3kPVcjV3X56-ZsAekJ1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABORmNuPPZN2JOHtve4RovbNYH4q54LXW0bU-MaTPtHaCS2o6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA62292-DB18-4D17-A507-E1B9B0F1E09A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABORmNurhin9+3jaCRd=nSOpKZgUO-RbB17xBhkv8-CWamgQjQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Greg and Chris,
Thanks for the pointers. I had checked Bookshare and RFBD. I found
several versions on the Sacred Text Archives, and was able to get a
text version, which is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

On 3/29/12, Greg Aikens <gpaikens at gmail.com> wrote:
> You can also try the Sacred Texts online site.  It appears they have several
> translation in english.  The link is:
> http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/index.htm
>
> -Greg
> On Mar 29, 2012, at 1:25 PM, Jewel wrote:
>
>> Hey, thanks for pointing out the Koran on BARD. I completely missed
>> it. It'll help me some, and what I don't get from the audio version,
>> I'll get from the online version. I'm hoping to get the Koran put on
>> Bookshare, too, though. Again, thanks for pointing out the Koran on
>> BARD to me...somehow I completely missed it!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jewel
>>
>> On 3/27/12, Lea williams <leanicole1988 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> This book is audio, did you want text? You said to surtch for words
>>> and stuff... not sure how you would do that in audio. Try bookshare
>>> maybe if so?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/27/12, Lea williams <leanicole1988 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> There is this book...
>>>> The Koran
>>>> Dawood, N. J. Read by Hugh Carney. Reading time 18 hours 11 minutes.
>>>> Religion
>>>> Translated by N. J. Dawood, this earliest work of classical Arabic is
>>>> the sacred scripture of Islam as revealed to the Prophet Mohammed by
>>>> the Angel Gabriel. 1966.
>>>> Download The Koran, DB7789
>>>>
>>>> I found it on the bard website.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/27/12, Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>> I'm working on a history paper that I need to cite the Koran for, but
>>>>> I can't find the full text of the Koran in daisy format anywhere. I'd
>>>>> much rather it in daisy format than anything, so I can search for
>>>>> specific words/phrases even at home where I don't have interent. I
>>>>> found an online Koran, but not a daisy book. Does anyone know of one,
>>>>> and if not, why isn't it out there? There's plenty of versions of the
>>>>> Bible in daisy format, so why not the Koran?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hoping to find it,
>>>>> Jewel Shuping
>>>>> herekittykat2 at gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/leanicole1988%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Lea Williams
>>>>
>>>> Phone;
>>>> 704-732-4470
>>>> Skipe;
>>>> Lea.williams738
>>>> Facebook
>>>> http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
>>>> Twitter
>>>> http://twitter.com/LeaNicole1988
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Lea Williams
>>>
>>> Phone;
>>> 704-732-4470
>>> Skipe;
>>> Lea.williams738
>>> Facebook
>>> http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=100001775297080
>>> Twitter
>>> http://twitter.com/LeaNicole1988
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Mar 30 20:54:51 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:54:51 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] Fw: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is
	no longeraccessible using speech [Incident: 120307-000422]
Message-ID: <4f761daf.9021e00a.1958.ffffb26c@mx.google.com>

Reese,

Great advocacy on your part!! Good for you!! It appears as though 
Spirit Airlines is trying to make some kind of excuse for their 
inaccessible Web site, and are politely dismissing the complaints 
which you have filed with them as having no real legal backing.  
After all, blind people can't possibly know the law, right? 
Spirit Airlines has people to investigate this; just trust them! 
But the problem is that these legal "experts" work for the very 
company which is the subject of your complaints.  So it is only 
natural that they will try to find some law or regulation to 
cover their you-know-what's.  Maybe the DOT doesn't require them 
to make their Web site accessible to us, but a law that 
supercedes any DOT regulation, the ADA (passed by Congress and 
signed into law by the then-President in 1990,) that does.  In 
short, this response by Michelle of Spirit Airlines, in my 
opinion, boils down to this: "The DOT doesn't require us to make 
our Web site accessible, and therefore your complaint has no 
legal precedent.  As far as we can tell, we're following the law, 
so screw all you blind people!"

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Reese" <atlanticstar1 at gmail.com
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
 sent: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 13:55:57 -0400
Subject: [Blindtlk] Fw: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no 
longeraccessible using speech [Incident: 120307-000422]

Please circulate this message where ever you feel its 
appropriate.

----- Original Message -----

Hello list:

Here's the final word from Spirit Airlines regarding there 
inaccessible
website.  It will follow my final reply to them.  Again the US 
Department of
Transportation has dropped the ball on this one just like they 
did with the
accessible airport boarding.

Reese

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peachtreetravel.net" <reservations at peachtreetravel.net
To: "Spirit Airlines" <spiritair at mailnj.custhelp.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer 
accessible
using speech [Incident: 120307-000422]


Dear Michelle:

First I want to thank you for researching this serious matter 
both for me
and all of the members of my Organization.   Regretfully I'll 
have to inform
the 50,000 members of my organization to do business else where 
until Spirit
Airlines website is accessible once again.  For this is the only 
way to
achieve fare and equal access.

I will check back from time to time to see if true access ever 
returns to
spirit Airlines and will keep my members up to date.  It has been 
good doing
business with you and hopefully we
can resume doing business again in the future.

Sincerely yours,

Maurice P Shackelford

----- Original Message -----
From: "Spirit Airlines" <spiritair at mailnj.custhelp.com
To: <reservations at peachtreetravel.net
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 9:38 AM
Subject: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer 
accessible using
speech [Incident: 120307-000422]



Subject
---------------------------------------------------------------
[Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer accessible using 
speech


Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
 (Michelle 62611) - 03/27/2012 09:38 AM
Dear Mr.  Shackelford,

Thank you for your patience as we investigated this matter 
thoroughly.

We sincerely regret that you are unable to access the check box 
for the $9
Fare Club membership and or the check box at the end of the 
booking.
However, this is not a violation of DOT's disability rule.  
Please be advised
that airlines are governed under the Department of Transportation 
and their
disability rule, 14 CFR 382, and are under no legal obligation to 
provide an
accessible website.  We are required, under 14 CFR 382.31(c), to 
disclose
web-based discount fares to any prospective passenger who 
contacts the
carrier via other normal channels for inquiring about fares, 
making a
reservation, or purchasing transportation (e.g.  telephone 
reservation line,
airport ticket counter) and states that he or she has a visual 
impairment
and is unable to use the website.  The carrier must sell a
web-based discount fare to such a person if his or her itinerary 
qualifies
for the fare as it is offered on the web (e.g., same cities and 
dates).

Our IT Department has reviewed your claim and they have informed 
me that
they changed the boxes on our booking path to styled check boxes 
which don't
work in the browser types you've attempted to use.  The change 
was made
nearly a year ago and this has been the first complaint brought 
to their
attention on the matter.  They are reviewing options to allow 
these types of
browsers to work with the needed functionality for our customers 
with visual
impairments.

I regret that I cannot offer more information on the matter, but 
thank you
for bringing this to our attention.

Please note, if you ever encounter problems when traveling with 
us, feel
free to ask our Spirit Airlines customer service personnel for a 
Complaint
Resolution Official (CRO).  Our CROs have been specially trained 
and are
aware of applicable Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and 
Department of
Transportation (DOT) disability regulations.  Our CROs are 
available at all
airport locations and will be glad to respond to your concerns.

We trust we have addressed you concerns in a satisfactory manner; 
however,
if you choose to pursue enforcement action, you have the right to 
contact
the Department of Transportation, in accordance with ACAA and DOT 
rule 14
CFR Part 382.

Please feel free to contact me if you ever require assistance.  
We know you
have a choice in air travel and are grateful you choose Spirit 
Airlines.

Sincerely,

Michelle 62611
Disability Specialist/
Corporate Escalation Officer
Spirit Airlines


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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Mar 30 21:55:40 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:55:40 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
Message-ID: <4f762bf1.c412e00a.0f72.1e77@mx.google.com>

Hi Joshua,

Can you email me off-list? My guess is that you were using the 
regular site, which isn't near as accessible as the mobile 
Facebook site.  If you want to get a Facebook account going 
again, I can tell you how to add friends, post statuses, send 
messages, etc, using the mobile site.  The only thing I don't 
know how to do is upload photos.

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:11:51 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question

I experimented with Facebook, last year.
I didn't like it, because I had problems, adding people, and 
sending messages.
Also, when I was in high school, I experimented with Myspace, 
and,
(IMO,) Myspace was more accessible than Facebook.
I've deleted both accounts, (BTW.)
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
 i don't know really how to do it, just that it does not work on 
the
 moble site.  now for the phones, but not for computers using
 m.facebook.com

 On 3/28/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hmmm...  any way to do this on iPhone?

 On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
 it only works on the main facebook site.

 with love
 Jeff Crouch

 On 3/28/12, Stephanie DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
 I think so
.on my android phone, if I am typing a comment and 
then press
 the
 menu/settings button on the phone, and there is an option for 
"people".
 It
 pulls up your friends list, and I select from that.

 On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:

 Can you do it on the mobile site, or can it only be done with 
the
 regular
 facebook site?
 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca"
 <sjhhirst at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:36 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question


 I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or 
something, just
 write @ (the "at" symbol) and type their name.  A list of your
 Facebook
 friends should pop up, from which you can select who you want to 
tag.
 Hope this helps,
 Stephanie

 On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:

 Hello everyone,



 I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone 
can
 give me
 the name and tell me how to do it.



 When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who 
also
 has
 a
 facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to 
their
 page
 appears as well?  Is this called Tagging, or does that only 
happen in
 photos?



 I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some
 activity,
 they can mention others and have a link to their page.  If 
anyone
 knows,
 let
 me know as well.



 Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site 
only?

 Thanks!

 Jim



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 --
 73
 kd8qiq
 jeff crouch

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 --
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 Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
 Skype: joshgregory93
  twitter: JoshG93

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 --
 73
 kd8qiq
 jeff crouch

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Mar 30 21:55:38 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:55:38 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
Message-ID: <4f762bef.c412e00a.0f72.1e75@mx.google.com>

Josh, I believe it works using the Facebook app.

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 18:08:13 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question

i don't know really how to do it, just that it does not work on 
the
moble site.  now for the phones, but not for computers using
m.facebook.com

On 3/28/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hmmm...  any way to do this on iPhone?

 On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
 it only works on the main facebook site.

 with love
 Jeff Crouch

 On 3/28/12, Stephanie DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
 I think so
.on my android phone, if I am typing a comment and 
then press
 the
 menu/settings button on the phone, and there is an option for 
"people".
 It
 pulls up your friends list, and I select from that.

 On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:

 Can you do it on the mobile site, or can it only be done with 
the
 regular
 facebook site?
 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca"
 <sjhhirst at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:36 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question


 I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or 
something, just
 write @ (the "at" symbol) and type their name.  A list of your 
Facebook
 friends should pop up, from which you can select who you want to 
tag.
 Hope this helps,
 Stephanie

 On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:

 Hello everyone,



 I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone 
can
 give me
 the name and tell me how to do it.



 When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who 
also has
 a
 facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to 
their
 page
 appears as well?  Is this called Tagging, or does that only 
happen in
 photos?



 I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some
 activity,
 they can mention others and have a link to their page.  If 
anyone
 knows,
 let
 me know as well.



 Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site 
only?

 Thanks!

 Jim



 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
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ail..com


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 nabs-l:
 
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 nabs-l:
 
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ail.com



 --
 73
 kd8qiq
 jeff crouch

 _______________________________________________
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 --
 Sent via gmail.com
 Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
 Skype: joshgregory93
  twitter: JoshG93

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--
73
kd8qiq
jeff crouch

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Mar 30 21:55:51 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:55:51 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Spirit Airlines is no longer accessible using
	speech[Incident: 120307-000422]
Message-ID: <4f762bfc.c412e00a.0f72.1e80@mx.google.com>

"Common sense is the least common of all senses."

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 22:21:21 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Spirit Airlines is no longer accessible 
using speech[Incident: 120307-000422]

I agree!
How dare they, or anyone for that matter, make their Websites 
inaccessible?
We need more laws, and more enforcement of the laws, that we have 
now!
This, is as bad as an airline taking a blind person's cane, and
claiming, that it could be used as a weapon!
How stupid, can some people be?
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/28/12, SA Mobile <loneblindjedi at samobile.net> wrote:
 Not to seem too crass, but that sounded like a cordial middle 
finger to the
 blind community.  Sounds like we need to find a way to close 
loop holes like
 the ones Spirit is using to avoid accountability for web access.

 Respectfully,
 Jedi

 Sent from my iPhone

 On 28/03/2012, at 9:57 PM, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> 
wrote:


 From: "Reese" <atlanticstar1 at gmail.com
 Subject: [Blindtlk] Fw: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no 
longer
        accessible using speech [Incident: 120307-000422]

 Please circulate this message where ever you feel its 
appropriate.

 ----- Original Message -----

 Hello list:

 Here's the final word from Spirit Airlines regarding there 
inaccessible
 website.  It will follow my final reply to them.  Again the US 
Department
 of
 Transportation has dropped the ball on this one just like they 
did with
 the
 accessible airport boarding.

 Reese

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Peachtreetravel.net" <reservations at peachtreetravel.net
 To: "Spirit Airlines" <spiritair at mailnj.custhelp.com
 Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 1:35 PM
 Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer 
accessible
 using speech [Incident: 120307-000422]


 Dear Michelle:

 First I want to thank you for researching this serious matter 
both for me
 and all of the members of my Organization.   Regretfully I'll 
have to
 inform
 the 50,000 members of my organization to do business else where 
until
 Spirit
 Airlines website is accessible once again.  For this is the only 
way to
 achieve fare and equal access.

 I will check back from time to time to see if true access ever 
returns to
 spirit Airlines and will keep my members up to date.  It has 
been good
 doing
 business with you and hopefully we
 can resume doing business again in the future.

 Sincerely yours,

 Maurice P Shackelford

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Spirit Airlines" <spiritair at mailnj.custhelp.com
 To: <reservations at peachtreetravel.net
 Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 9:38 AM
 Subject: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer 
accessible using
 speech [Incident: 120307-000422]



 Subject
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
 [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer accessible using 
speech


 Discussion Thread
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
 (Michelle 62611) - 03/27/2012 09:38 AM
 Dear Mr.  Shackelford,

 Thank you for your patience as we investigated this matter 
thoroughly.

 We sincerely regret that you are unable to access the check box 
for the
 $9
 Fare Club membership and or the check box at the end of the 
booking.
 However, this is not a violation of DOT's disability rule.  
Please be
 advised
 that airlines are governed under the Department of 
Transportation and
 their
 disability rule, 14 CFR 382, and are under no legal obligation 
to provide
 an
 accessible website.  We are required, under 14 CFR 382.31(c), to 
disclose
 web-based discount fares to any prospective passenger who 
contacts the
 carrier via other normal channels for inquiring about fares, 
making a
 reservation, or purchasing transportation (e.g.  telephone 
reservation
 line,
 airport ticket counter) and states that he or she has a visual 
impairment
 and is unable to use the website.  The carrier must sell a
 web-based discount fare to such a person if his or her itinerary
 qualifies
 for the fare as it is offered on the web (e.g., same cities and 
dates).

 Our IT Department has reviewed your claim and they have informed 
me that
 they changed the boxes on our booking path to styled check boxes 
which
 don't
 work in the browser types you've attempted to use.  The change 
was made
 nearly a year ago and this has been the first complaint brought 
to their
 attention on the matter.  They are reviewing options to allow 
these types
 of
 browsers to work with the needed functionality for our customers 
with
 visual
 impairments.

 I regret that I cannot offer more information on the matter, but 
thank
 you
 for bringing this to our attention.

 Please note, if you ever encounter problems when traveling with 
us, feel
 free to ask our Spirit Airlines customer service personnel for a
 Complaint
 Resolution Official (CRO).  Our CROs have been specially trained 
and are
 aware of applicable Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and 
Department
 of
 Transportation (DOT) disability regulations.  Our CROs are 
available at
 all
 airport locations and will be glad to respond to your concerns.

 We trust we have addressed you concerns in a satisfactory 
manner;
 however,
 if you choose to pursue enforcement action, you have the right 
to contact
 the Department of Transportation, in accordance with ACAA and 
DOT rule 14
 CFR Part 382.

 Please feel free to contact me if you ever require assistance.  
We know
 you
 have a choice in air travel and are grateful you choose Spirit 
Airlines.

 Sincerely,

 Michelle 62611
 Disability Specialist/
 Corporate Escalation Officer
 Spirit Airlines




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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri Mar 30 21:56:06 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:56:06 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] google docs
Message-ID: <4f762c0b.c412e00a.0f72.1e91@mx.google.com>

Thanks for the link!

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Stephanie DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:33:25 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] google docs

Go here to download Firefox.
http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/

I think the screen reader on Macs is not too bad, and Safari may 
be able to handle Google Docs...

On Mar 28, 2012, at 8:34 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

 Hi Ashley,

 Yes, Google Docs is inaccessible at the moment; NFB is working 
with Google to fix that.  Basically, it is an alternative to 
Microsoft Word which allows you to write and edit documents as 
well as send them to people, i.e.  your professor, from within 
the program.  I would do what you suggest; that is, write the 
document in Word, then send it as an email attachment to your 
professor.

 Chris Nusbaum

 Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 14:07:18 -0400
 Subject: [nabs-l] google docs

 Hi all,

 Well, I have a hybrid class for english; that means half online 
work and half in class meetings.
 What exactly is google docs and how does it work?
 Do you attach documents to it or something?

 I realize it is inaccessible to us.  How do you get around that? 
Do you write assignments in word and/or email?
 I ask because I encountered google docs in our online class when 
we were supposed to comment on introductions for articles.
 Obviously, I couldn’t read the comments.  Jaws only read names 
of classmates, not text.
 So I’ll have to have  a sighted reader and hand in my comments 
on paper.

 And most importantly, has either consumer advocacy group done 
anything about this lack of accessibility? I fail to see how 
blind students take online classes with so much inaccesssibility.
 PDFS, flash based content, multi media presentations and um now 
google docs are just a few accessibility challenges in the online 
class experience.

 Ashley
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From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Fri Mar 30 22:22:34 2012
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:22:34 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
Message-ID: <4f76325d.e938b60a.5a82.1210@mx.google.com>

Get Facebook for iPod.  You can upload photos directly from that 
app, and I know how to do it.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:55:40 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question

Hi Joshua,

Can you email me off-list? My guess is that you were using the
regular site, which isn't near as accessible as the mobile
Facebook site.  If you want to get a Facebook account going
again, I can tell you how to add friends, post statuses, send
messages, etc, using the mobile site.  The only thing I don't
know how to do is upload photos.

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 17:11:51 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question

I experimented with Facebook, last year.
I didn't like it, because I had problems, adding people, and
sending messages.
Also, when I was in high school, I experimented with Myspace,
and,
(IMO,) Myspace was more accessible than Facebook.
I've deleted both accounts, (BTW.)
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
 i don't know really how to do it, just that it does not work on
the
 moble site.  now for the phones, but not for computers using
 m.facebook.com

 On 3/28/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hmmm...  any way to do this on iPhone?

 On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
 it only works on the main facebook site.

 with love
 Jeff Crouch

 On 3/28/12, Stephanie DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
 I think so
.on my android phone, if I am typing a comment and
then press
 the
 menu/settings button on the phone, and there is an option for
"people".
 It
 pulls up your friends list, and I select from that.

 On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:

 Can you do it on the mobile site, or can it only be done with
the
 regular
 facebook site?
 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca"
 <sjhhirst at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:36 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question


 I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or
something, just
 write @ (the "at" symbol) and type their name.  A list of your
 Facebook
 friends should pop up, from which you can select who you want to
tag.
 Hope this helps,
 Stephanie

 On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:

 Hello everyone,



 I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone
can
 give me
 the name and tell me how to do it.



 When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who
also
 has
 a
 facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to
their
 page
 appears as well?  Is this called Tagging, or does that only
happen in
 photos?



 I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some
 activity,
 they can mention others and have a link to their page.  If
anyone
 knows,
 let
 me know as well.



 Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site
only?

 Thanks!

 Jim



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 kd8qiq
 jeff crouch

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 Skype: joshgregory93
  twitter: JoshG93

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat Mar 31 13:26:11 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 09:26:11 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology
Message-ID: <4f77060c.1109e00a.0f9d.77e3@mx.google.com>

Hadley also has many online technology courses.  Check them out 
at www.hadley.edu.

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark J.  Cadigan" <kramc11 at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:17:16 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology

Stephanie,

If all you are interested in is improving your technology skills, 
the
Carroll Center does offer various online classes.



For improving interviewing skills, there is a company called 
phone interview
pro.  This company will work with you to help you improve your 
phone
interviewing skills.  State rehab in my state paid for me to 
receive this
interview training.

Mark



----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephanie DeLuca" <sjhhirst at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


 Oh, well I wasn't discounting the NFB centers.  They look great!  
I live
 in Nashville though and am a full-time graduate student.  I 
don't know if
 I could take so much time off to go through an independent 
living program.
 It'd be great to have some lessons, though.

 On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:30 AM, Mark J.  Cadigan wrote:

 Stephanie,

 Don’t discount an NFB center just because you don’t think 
you require
 help with daily living.  I’m certin you will learn some new 
tips and
 tricks in an NFB center’s home management class.  With that 
being said,
 if you are an expert at all aspects of daily living, they will 
recognize
 that, and graduate you from the class.



 Mark



 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca"
 <sjhhirst at gmail.com
 To: <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind 
Students
 mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 11:03 AM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


 I was thinking about going with the Tennessee Rehab Center to 
learn some
 braille, O&M, and interview skills.  I don't really need help on 
daily
 living.  Does anyone know the quality of the instruction at this 
center
 and can comment on it?

 On Mar 30, 2012, at 8:43 AM, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ wrote:

 Because not all states or counselors have subscribed to the NFB 
way of
 doing things (like forcing the blindfold issue or the cane 
issue) for
 example.  One organization or group's ideas about independence 
aren't
 always the same as another group's ideas.

 On 30.03.2012, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> 
wrote:
   Why won't all states pay for NFB center training just curious.
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 9:24 AM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


 Dear List
 I totally agree with Chris' comment.  The NFB training centers 
are
 incredible and the people who work there are extremely 
supportive.  As
 a person who went to CCb in 2006 and 2008 I believe going there 
was
 the best decision I have made about my independence.

 Sincerely,
 Nathan Clark

 On 3/29/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
 All these complaints against what we NFB members call
 "traditional rehab centers" and their policies make the NFB
 training centers and their practices that much better! From what
 I know about many of you from previous posts on this list, you
 like the NFB philosophy and the fact that we believe blind 
people
 can and should be expected to be as independent as we can.  So,
 why not go to an adult program at an NFB center? They offer the
 same type of program and teach the same skills as traditional
 facilities such as LWSB, but the NFB centers believe in teaching
 independence and won't force you to take a class you don't need.
 I encourage you all to check them out!

 Chris Nusbaum

 Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Brian Hatgelakas" <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 21:29:06 -0400
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology

 Why would they make you take a TDL class if you are already 
doing
 the stuff
 on your own?  If I went to a center for a job placement program
 I'd show
 them right away and try to opt out of the class.  Couldn't you
 have done
 this.  Seams like those centers bring us independent people down
 to the
 lowest level of people that don't know anything about living
 independently
 at first before you can get to the programs you are actually
 paying for.
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 7:20 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


 They train people in Daily living skills, because I was forced 
to
 take
 that TDL, (Techniques of Daily Living,) class!
 I hated it, because it was stuff, I already knew, and was doing
 on my own!
 Theresa Bailey taught it, and it was horible!
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
 wrote:
 I thought that LWSB didn't train people on daily living skills.
 That's
 what
 I said!
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Nathan Clark" <troubleclark at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:28 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


 Dear Brian,
 What are you refering to when you talk about the CCB job
 training program?
 Sincerely,
 Nathan

 On 3/26/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net
 wrote:
 I wasn't aware that LWSB offered programs similar to the Carol
 Center's
 and
 Colorado Center's!  I was always under the impression that it
 was solely
 a
 job training center AKA an ITT tech or a Western School Of
 Health And
 business!
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 11:49 AM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


 Brian,
 it’s a training center that provides independent living and 
job
 training.
 They provide training in help desk support and other I T stuff.
 It’s a training facility,  not a job placement agency.  so, it
 will not
 gaurantee employment.
 I say let the programs run.  If you don't like it, don't go
 there, but
 they

 must  be helping some people improve their lives.

 Ashley


 -----Original Message-----
 From: Brian Hatgelakas
 Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 10:25 AM
 To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind
 Students
 mailing

 list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology

 If no employment is provided why not terminate all programs
 accept the
 IRS
 program?  My question is how much money is being wasted by state
 agencies
 on
 useless programs at this center?  I believe someone needs to do
 an
 investigative article on this topic.
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł" <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:54 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Careers in assistive technology


 Joshua,

 The only programs that will hire directly from WSB are the IRS
 programs and they are not directly affiliated with WSB.  You can
 go to
 any other IRS class and get the same offered position.  WSB just
 happens to be the location of an IRS training sight.  The
 employees
 that teach those classes work directly for the IRS, and the
 computer
 network used is solely for the IRS which makes the IRS classes
 and WSB
 two separate entities in my mind.  Even if you wish to count the
 IRS
 classes as belonging to WSB, they have a bunch of other programs
 that
 will not provide employment once a program has been terminated
 and a
 client has graduated successfully.

 Thanks.

 On 25.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
 wrote:
 Joshua, she went to Tyler Texas to teach with Jan at the Tyler
 Light
 House.

 Desiree, as part of the ATI program, clients will receive a set
 amount
 of hours (that's not really counted) of practical experience
 which is
 the teaching of students for them that I mentioned, you receive
 an icł
 certification which is outdated, hardly ever used or heard of,
 and
 mostly is unrelated to assistive technology, and because of my
 request
 that I put forward you now will attempt to pass the Freedom
 Scientific
 JAWS cert which again, isn't worth a whole lot seeing how it
 places
 much of its emphasis on how to access help and where to get
 training
 more than knowing how to most efficiently utilize the functions
 of the
 screen reader.  For all of this, the training supposedly takes
 nine
 months although I finished up in under four.  This was the old
 program.
 Now, the new instructor has been incorporating lessons on
 teaching
 modalities, eye conditions, making equipment recommendations and
 communicating with state Rehab counselors, etc etc.  You don't
 receive
 a certification in any of this, unless you call a little piece
 of
 paper and a pin from WSB telling you good job and that you
 graduated
 to be a certification.  This is why I don't consider WSB to be a
 school.  Technically I'm sure they have to have some
 accreditation or
 other to provide the services that they do, but I'm sure that if
 they
 are meeting the standards for it, they're barely doing so.  And
 sanitation issues in their buildings are pretty bad.  They have
 an
 antiquated heating and cooling system that can not be switched
 from
 heat to AC quickly meaning that they will only make the switch
 twice a
 year, there are many bugs and some of the food provided is
 unrecognizable, although when boar members are present they do a
 half
 decent job.

 Thanks.

 On 25.03.2012, Desiree Oudinot <turtlepower17 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 So, if it's not a school, does that mean the accreditation is
 worthless? I'm just trying to understand that part of it.  I
 wouldn't
 attend there, because I've heard some disturbing stories, to put
 it
 lightly, about sanitation issues in the dorms.

 On 3/25/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 wrote:
 I attended there, under the influence of my VR counselor.
 What a mistake!
 I wanted to get in their AT program, but it was too full.
 They have an awesome ATI, (Assistive Technology Instructor,)
 program,
 that I would have highly recommended, if they had the
 instructor,
 that
 I had.
 We called her Ms Z.
 Anyone remember her?
 Blessings,Joshua

 On 3/25/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, ICł <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Joshua,

 LWSB is not a school, and I definitely wouldn't recommend it for
 several reasons.  First, the program is being modified heavily
 under
 the influence of a new tech instructor they've just hired, so I
 would
 say wait till everything's worked out.  Second, there are quite
 a few
 places where mentioning "LWSB" will not land you work because of
 its
 reputation in the past.  And, as mentioned, it is not a school
 which
 means that you really can't depend on it for finding any kind of
 employment.

 Thanks.

 On 25.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 wrote:
 http://www.lwsb.org
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 3/25/12, Kayla Paige <kayla.mattox at cox.net> wrote:
 Hi, I have a question.  What kind of school would you go to for
 a
 career
 in
 assistive technology? Even though I'm going to school for
 massage
 therapy,
 my other interest is assistive technology.  Thanks.
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 --
 Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
 recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
 contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
 or
 criminal action.  I have checked this email and all
 corresponding
 attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
 machine
 is
 up to you.  Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating
 system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
 XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
 news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
 (720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

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 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
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 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
 contents
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 corresponding
 attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
 machine is
 up to you.  Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating
 system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
 XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
 news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
 (720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.



 --
 Nimer Jaber, ICł and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended
 recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
 contents
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 or
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 corresponding
 attachments for security threats.  However, security of your
 machine is
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 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating
 system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
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 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
 news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
 (720)
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 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended 
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its 
contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil 
or
 criminal action.  I have checked this email and all 
corresponding
 attachments for security threats.  However, security of your 
machine is
 up to you.  Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
(720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

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From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com  Sat Mar 31 15:40:13 2012
From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen)
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 11:40:13 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Nfbv-announce] Joe roeder Adaptive Technology
	Scholarship
In-Reply-To: <001901cd0b50$37ecd6d0$a7c68470$@sks.com>
References: <Ac0LUDaw93Sw1188R0uGg1Myrgj+fg==>
	<001901cd0b50$37ecd6d0$a7c68470$@sks.com>
Message-ID: <CAPnwOUOPZ=A8UgR-UPENV5g8==W2-0+s3VNQ99FF_s8Oc0-XkQ@mail.gmail.com>

The following is an announcement about a scholarship opportunity from
NIB that may be of interest to any of you looking for careers in
access technology. Please share with anybody who you think may be
interested.

Thanks,

Sean

Scholarship Opportunity:



Joseph Roeder Assistive Technology Scholarship Application Due May 5

Kathleen Gallagher, Learning and Development Manager, NIB

NIB is seeking applicants for the Joseph Roeder Assistive Technology
Scholarship, a $2,500 scholarship to an individual who is blind, interested
in pursuing education in computer science, information systems or a related
field, and pursuing a career in access technology. The scholarship is named
in memory of Joe Roeder, who served as senior access technology specialist
at NIB from 1997 until his death in 2010.



Joe Roeder had 40 years of experience in the fields of design engineering,
electronic information systems, training and business management, including
experience as a mechanical and nuclear engineer at Bechtel Power
Corporation. He was instrumental in the development of Section 508 of the
Electronic and Information Technology Accessibility Standards, which
requires all federal government agencies to provide accessible data and
information for employees with disabilities.



Individuals to be considered for the scholarship are entering their third or
fourth year of college or graduate school, or are changing careers to pursue
a career in assistive technology.



All applications and additional documents must be submitted online no later
than May 5, 2012. The top candidates will be interviewed by phone during the
week of May 21, 2012, and the winner will be announced in June 2012. The
scholarship application is available online.
<http://www.nib.org/content/scholarship-application>
http://www.nib.org/content/scholarship-application



If you have any questions, please contact Kathy Gallagher at 703-310-0343 or
<mailto:kgallagher at nib.org> kgallagher at nib.org.
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From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com  Sat Mar 31 19:01:57 2012
From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen)
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 15:01:57 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Help ETS Improve Math Text to Speech
Message-ID: <CAPnwOUMjO-q=U+ZcFs=LDO=So0xUTMVZpUDbzWsmsROXyM7hBQ@mail.gmail.com>

Attention all students:

Our friends at ETS are working on a project to improve the way math is
read through text to speech, and they are looking for input from blind
students. ETS is seeking students who would be interested in
participating in an informal demonstration and group discussion at
NFB's National Convention in Dallas. Please read below for more
details. If you are able to assist, or have any questions, please
contact Lois Frankel at the below email address or phone number.

Thank you for your help!

From: "Frankel, Lois" <lfrankel at ets.org>
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:38:02 -0700
Subject: Announcement for NABS

ETS is working on a project to develop software-based tools that will
improve the ways computers speak mathematics expressions used in
Algebra by making the computer speak the expressions as they would be
spoken in classrooms. We would like to meet informally with a group of
students directly after the NABS meeting, or possibly Monday
afternoon, to do a "show and tell" of what we have so far and to get
input from them about how we can improve the speech we have developed
so far. We are looking for roughly 5 to 10 students in middle school,
high school, or early college who are blind or have low vision, and
are comfortable using text to speech (e.g. JAWS).  Participants should
be familiar with the material covered in Algebra 1, but not with
mathematics beyond elementary calculus. This project is funded by a
grant from the U.S. Department of Education, Institute for Education
Sciences.

------
Lois Frankel, Ph.D.
Assessment Development
Educational Testing Service
Mail Stop 14-N   Room N157
609-683-2985


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Mar 31 21:43:41 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 17:43:41 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] using excel
Message-ID: <C9AF9A0625A24C6A9F62D20C1B5FFFAF@OwnerPC>

Hi all,

I suppose excel is pretty accessible, just more challenging with the ribbon bar.
What can you do with those charts like the pie and bar graph? Can you label them, widen the bars, move the graph itself? Can you do all this with the keyboard? I do not see how you can select and move an image though with the keyboard.


I’m trying to learn excel in an intro computer class and wondered what was accessible. It is excel 2010.
My professor is teaching me the excel commands she can find online; but she is used to teaching via the mouse.
Has anyone taken the hadley excel class or caroll center’s online class? If so, what does it teach and did you like it? Hadley’s corespondence class is free as are all classes but carroll center requires payment but IMO it’s a reasonable fee.

If anyone can tell me how to do these things in excel, I’d appreciate it. I’m getting a little training through the department for the blind, but it is not enough. We are covering more than excel so we only have one session on it.

I use jaws 13 and excel 2010.
My questions:
1. Is it possible to use the fill handle and how?
My classmates do this a lot.
2. How do you select a range of cells?
3. How do you widen cells?
4. How do you insert formulas telling it to add up columns? I know you press equals, then sum, and separate the numbers with a colon. Would you just type something like  =sum(c5:c8)
5. how do you tell jaws to read the column headers?

Thanks



From ntorcolini at wavecable.com  Sat Mar 31 21:50:47 2012
From: ntorcolini at wavecable.com (Nicole B. Torcolini at Home)
Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2012 14:50:47 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] using excel
References: <C9AF9A0625A24C6A9F62D20C1B5FFFAF@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <15949906C0CD4DB38C0D2204E0780ECF@stanford.edu>

For selecting cells, press control g and then type the range. For example 
a1:a5, c1:c5 would select a1 through a5 and c1 through c5.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, March 31, 2012 2:43 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] using excel


> Hi all,
>
> I suppose excel is pretty accessible, just more challenging with the 
> ribbon bar.
> What can you do with those charts like the pie and bar graph? Can you 
> label them, widen the bars, move the graph itself? Can you do all this 
> with the keyboard? I do not see how you can select and move an image 
> though with the keyboard.
>
>
> I’m trying to learn excel in an intro computer class and wondered what was 
> accessible. It is excel 2010.
> My professor is teaching me the excel commands she can find online; but 
> she is used to teaching via the mouse.
> Has anyone taken the hadley excel class or caroll center’s online class? 
> If so, what does it teach and did you like it? Hadley’s corespondence 
> class is free as are all classes but carroll center requires payment but 
> IMO it’s a reasonable fee.
>
> If anyone can tell me how to do these things in excel, I’d appreciate it. 
> I’m getting a little training through the department for the blind, but it 
> is not enough. We are covering more than excel so we only have one session 
> on it.
>
> I use jaws 13 and excel 2010.
> My questions:
> 1. Is it possible to use the fill handle and how?
> My classmates do this a lot.
> 2. How do you select a range of cells?
> 3. How do you widen cells?
> 4. How do you insert formulas telling it to add up columns? I know you 
> press equals, then sum, and separate the numbers with a colon. Would you 
> just type something like  =sum(c5:c8)
> 5. how do you tell jaws to read the column headers?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ntorcolini%40wavecable.com
>