[nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

Chris Nusbaum dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Mon Mar 26 01:34:49 UTC 2012


Hi Joshua,

I'm sorry to hear about your mom's health! In that case, I 
completely understand your wanting to stay closer to home.  I 
hope she gets well soon and that nothing serious happens!

God bless,

Chris

Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID: 
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum

"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight.  The 
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that 
exists.  If a blind person has the proper training and 
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical 
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 23:50:29 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & 
Sighted-Blind-Low Vision

I have to stay, closer to home, due to my mom's health.
She's diabetic, and has lost a leg, due to diabetes.
I have to be close by, in case, (God forbid,) something happens 
to her.
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home 
<ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
 I am not trying to be rude or condescending, but there is 
something that I
 need to know.  Is it that all other guide dog schools are to 
difficult to get
 to for some reason, or is it that you just don't want to travel 
that far
 from home? And, this is not just about the guide dog schools; 
this is about
 everything.

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:57 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs was Re: Dating & 
Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 It's closer to Arkansas, (where I live.)
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home 
<ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
 Is that the only school that you would consider?

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:50 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 I'm allergic to cats, dogs, and horses.
 I'm not sure, if Guiding Eyes trains poodles.
 That's an interesting question, and those of you, that received 
your
 dogs from there, may be able to answer that.
 If so, I might be on the lookout for one.
 Thanks, Joshua

 On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home 
<ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
 No dog is 100% allergy causing free, but most people who are 
allergic to
 dogs are not allergic to poodles or labordoodles.  That being 
said, I
 would
 like to know how many people are allergic to dogs.

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:33 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Also, with the guide dog, you never know, if the person you're 
dating
 has an allergy to dogs.
 That's why I avoid them, because of my allergies.
 I don't know, if they train dogs, that are nonallergenic.
 Nicole, do you know if they do?
 Thanks, Joshua

 On 3/22/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home 
<ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
 I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that 
they
 are
 not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you 
want one
 for
 this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide 
dogs
 can
 sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.  
However,
 there
 is
 of course a flip side to that.  Some people who have guide dogs 
don't
 like
 it
 when people talk to them because of their dogs. .

 Nicole

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello All,
 This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons.  
First,
 dating is hard as a blind person.  But dating can also be hard 
for
 someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average 
height,
 someone who has trouble hearing, etc.  In short, dating can be 
hard for
 anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall 
squarely in
 the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.  
Even
 geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a 
true
 story.
 I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend 
of
 mine a few days ago.  And one of the things we both agreed upon, 
is
 that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that 
most
 people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual 
being,
 who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable.  Which, 
like
 Arielle said,  makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and 
other
 hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone 
and go
 on a date.  We have to carry a heavier burden by making 
ourselves even
 more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with 
our
 self-esteem.  The courting sequence usually goes something like 
this:
 Man and woman sit at bar.  Man and woman makes eye-contact.
 If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
 though not always, make a comment which will spark off 
conversation.
 If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation 
she will
 angle herself toward the man.  If conversation continues to be
 stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection, 
casual
 touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
 Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective.  Man or woman 
walk
 into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted 
requests
 to be helped, man or woman find barstool.  After being observed 
to
 enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about 
blindness
 will have been activated.  And our shot of having this normal 
courting
 sequence is nipped at the bud.  Of course, a person who wasn't 
there
 before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
 instantly drawn in.  Which is why, I like to arrive early at 
parties
 and spark up a conversation with new comers.  When they find out 
your
 blind however, all bets are off.
 This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not 
have a
 dating experience.  On the contrary, I have been fairly 
successful in
 dating along with many other blind women and men I know.  Like 
Arielle
 and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should 
be
 irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and 
consider as a
 potential romantic partner.  there are so many other things that 
come
 into play.  What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
 intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
 parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal 
ideas
 they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but 
decide to
 stay with them because it's more comfortable.  Relationships are 
so
 incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from 
each
 other.  But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
 thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the 
person
 despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship 
than
 mere visual acuity.
 So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
 explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something 
your
 into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally 
something
 I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all 
means.  Be
  creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the 
local
 bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house 
parties.  But
 most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for 
a
 sighted date or a blind date for validation.  Because that never 
ends
 well.  The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
 completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full 
happy and
 fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by 
the
 sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not.  But, 
you do
 learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more 
thing
 we have to do using alternative skills.  I know, from the 
experience of
 friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people, 
because
 it makes them feel useful.  It validates their self-worth, since 
they
 have someone they can help all the time.  And I know blind 
people who
 think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
 experience.  I've done both, and speaking from a woman's 
perspective.
 All men have issues.  But you can find some truly golden ones 
among
 them all.
 A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual 
reference
 to fashion and looking good.  Dress to bring out the best 
features of
 yourself.  Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college 
chic,
 when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.  
Because I
 have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend.  Look nice, get 
some
 delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
 Sincerely,
 Mary

 On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 I'm gonna way in on this topic.
 My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around 
blind
 people
 growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind 
person.
 We've met in person twice and it's been great.
 Take care,
 Doug

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello all,
 Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my 
own
 experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people 
online.  As a
 matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online, 
and he
 is blind as well.  We have been dating a little over a year now, 
and I
 have also had the chance to meet him in person.  I can say that 
some of
 what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good 
and
 bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more 
disastrous
 because of his family who are sighted.  Well the first time we 
actually
 got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families 
were
 present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of 
us
 being long distance, and it was the only way the two families 
could
 meet.  About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and 
that was
 a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part 
of
 another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers.  I
 actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it 
was
 hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind 
person
 besides him, and he is not as independent as I am.  I have also 
met
 sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating 
sites.  I
 met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my 
opinion,
 that's better because you're actually meeting people you have 
things
 in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like 
most
 people have said already, one of the main things to consider 
when
 dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you 
share in
 common with the other person.  I personally have never dated a 
sighted
 person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
 sighted.  Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because 
I
 haven't wanted to tell them.  I don't meet these people in 
person
 mainly because most of them are not from the U.S.  and therefore 
it
 really hasn't come up.  Besides, I'm not as close to them, and 
we
 mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with 
most of
 these people I meet anyway.  I have also met blind friends 
online, and
 basically the same goes for them.  So as most people have 
already said,
 I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person 
from a
 blind person.  A blind person might be a little more 
understanding
 considering they go through some of the same things.  But on the 
other
 side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't 
completely
 adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family 
their
 entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue 
such
 as in my case.  So I think dating both blind and sighted people 
can
 have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how 
to
 handle each situation as it comes.  Good luck.


 On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi all,
 I have a little experience with online dating, but not much.  I 
was on
 a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but 
didn't
 find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person.  I have a lot 
of
 friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard 
the
 whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous 
first
 dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's 
blindness was
 revealed online.  It really doesn't hurt to try it.  If you do 
find
 someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a 
public
 place.  But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a 
profile up
 and seeing what happens.
 Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
 Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting 
my
 sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid 
sites.
 I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it 
and
 said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more 
attractive
 and appealing than the guys on the paid one.  So it's possible 
the
 people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and 
hence
 are better catches.
 I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness 
during
 an online dating encounter.  Some people put it in their 
profiles,
 others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it 
at some
 point in the middle.  I'd tend to treat it like a job interview 
and
 reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but 
before
 we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out 
when
 they see me.  Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can 
happen at
 any point in the process.  You'll have to decide whether you 
would
 prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to 
get to
 know you before they learn about your blindness.
 Regarding dating blind vs.  sighted people: Like many of us I 
have done
 both.  I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind 
person
 or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of 
thinking.
 I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt 
the
 same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were 
blind.  I
 will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship 
was
 easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about 
what
 nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret 
my
 nonverbal signals.  However, when I try to compare the 
relationship I
 have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years 
with the
 other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't 
think
 of any major differences.  I do think that regardless of 
blindness
 status, it's important for you and your partner to share 
interests and
 passions in common.  NFB and blindness are passions that many of 
us
 share, and they help bring many blind couples together.  
However, there
 are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
 around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those 
passions
 with you can be similarly rewarding.  In other words, instead of
 deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind, 
I
 think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
 common with them.  I know that for us blind folks it can be hard 
to
 meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like 
singles'
 parties.  But if you can find communities of people that share 
your
 interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student 
division,
 classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much 
better
 way to build lasting connections.
 Arielle

 On 3/22/12, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention 
simply for
 the dating scene.  I'm sure relationships do develop at things 
like
 that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with 
general
 sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc 
etc
 to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.

 Later.

 On 22.03.2012, Nimer M.  Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> 
wrote:
 Hello Robin,

 Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and 
learn
 from it.  It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
 others.
 As for the sighted vs.  blind thing, I would ask what you want.  
Not
 dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool 
and
 more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
 options,
 just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of 
being
 rejected is crazy as well.  We're all individuals.  Many blind 
people
 have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
 blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to 
necessarily
 feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance, 
etc
 etc.  Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
 questions.
 Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
 educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
 willing
 to learn and it could work out.  As for good dating sites ...  
why not
 just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
 status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences 
that
 are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
 (whether online or not).

 Anyway, talk to you later and peace.  May you have much luck 
with
 your
 dating search.

 Nimer J

 On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> 
wrote:
 Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites, 
that
 pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when 
you
 meet
 them, they're a criminal.
 Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
 Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh 
yes,
 there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi,
 I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
 would
 be
 very
 careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming 
as
 they
 appear to be over emails.  I have dated very few blind people 
and
 find
 that
 there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
 feel
 that
 is
 a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on 
a
 daily
 basis and want to know we are more than our blindness.  I have
 found
 there
 are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially 
when
 they
 are
 confident and out going.  I have been in a relationship with a
 sited
 person
 for 3 years and things are wonderful.
 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
 To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
 Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision


 Hello to everyone,
 I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
 dating
 and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
 you
 had
 with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look 
forward
 to
 hearing your stories.


 I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
 Perhaps
 there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, 
like
 a
 breeze

 among flowers.
 Hellen Keller


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 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended 
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
 contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil 
or
 criminal action.  I have checked this email and all 
corresponding
 attachments for security threats.  However, security of your 
machine
 is
 up to you.  Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating
 system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
 news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
 (720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.



 --
 Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications

 The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
 addressed.  If you believe that you are not the intended 
recipient,
 please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
 correspondence.  Action taken as a result of this email or its
 contents
 by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil 
or
 criminal action.  I have checked this email and all 
corresponding
 attachments for security threats.  However, security of your 
machine
 is
 up to you.  Thanks.

 Registered Linux User 529141.
 http://counter.li.org/
 Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
 To get more information about a free and accessible operating 
system,
 please click here:
 http://www.vinuxproject.org

 To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
XP
 and above, please click here:
 http://www.nvda-project.org

 You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology 
news.

 Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
 http://nimertech.blogspot.com

 To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
 (720)
 (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

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 --
 Mary Fernandez
 Emory 2012
 "Do I dare
 Disturb the universe?
 In a minute there is time
 For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
 --
 T.S.  Eliot

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