[nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
Chris Nusbaum
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Mon Mar 26 01:34:40 UTC 2012
By the way, I recall hearing something from Leader Dogs about
them training laborodoodles. Don't quote me on that, though; I
would check with them before you decide to see if they train that
type of dog.
Chris Nusbaum
Email and Google Talk/Keychat (on the BrailleNote) ID:
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Skype: christpher.nusbaum3 or search for Chris Nusbaum
"The real problem of blindness is not the loss of eyesight. The
real problem is the misunderstanding and lack of education that
exists. If a blind person has the proper training and
opportunity, blindness can be reduced to a mere physical
nuisance."
-- Kenneth Jernigan
----- Original Message -----
From: Beth <thebluesisloose at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:45:30 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
For me, a guide dog is not an option if I marry the man I want or
any Muslim for that matter because they think dogs are impure.
Beth
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini at Home" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:29:35 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
I'm not saying that this is a reason to get one, and I know that
they are
not for everyone, and, if you tell the training center that you
want one for
this reason, they're probably not going to accept you, but guide
dogs can
sometimes be a way to break the ice in awkward situations.
However, there is
of course a flip side to that. Some people who have guide dogs
don't like it
when people talk to them because of their dogs. .
Nicole
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Fernandez" <trillian551 at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
Hello All,
This is a really fantastic topic for a number of reasons. First,
dating is hard as a blind person. But dating can also be hard
for
someone who is overweight, someone who is well below average
height,
someone who has trouble hearing, etc. In short, dating can be
hard for
anyone who isn't simply average, someone who doesn't fall
squarely in
the fattest part of the bell curve when we look at populations.
Even
geniuses have trouble dating, I'm friends with some, and it's a
true
story.
I was having a conversation about dating with a very good friend
of
mine a few days ago. And one of the things we both agreed upon,
is
that one of the challenges of dating in the typical ways that
most
people do, is that most sighted people see you as an asexual
being,
who needs help, and who cannot be viewed as datable. Which, like
Arielle said, makes it hard for blind people to go to bars and
other
hang out places where singles gather and just pick up someone and
go
on a date. We have to carry a heavier burden by making ourselves
even
more accessible than most people, and this might play havoc with
our
self-esteem. The courting sequence usually goes something like
this:
Man and woman sit at bar. Man and woman makes eye-contact.
If man and woman give each other physical cue, man will usually,
though not always, make a comment which will spark off
conversation.
If woman is interested, about 2 minutes into the conversation she
will
angle herself toward the man. If conversation continues to be
stimulating, and man and woman are getting a deeper connection,
casual
touching might begin, and a second date might be requested.
Now, lets look at this from a blind perspective. Man or woman
walk
into bar, after using cane successfully, fending off unwanted
requests
to be helped, man or woman find barstool. After being observed
to
enter by most of the bar, observers' mis-conceptions about
blindness
will have been activated. And our shot of having this normal
courting
sequence is nipped at the bud. Of course, a person who wasn't
there
before hand might come in, look at your gorgeous skirt and be
instantly drawn in. Which is why, I like to arrive early at
parties
and spark up a conversation with new comers. When they find out
your
blind however, all bets are off.
This is not to say that blind individuals cannot and should not
have a
dating experience. On the contrary, I have been fairly
successful
in
dating along with many other blind women and men I know. Like
Arielle
and others mentioned, whether someone is sighted or blind should
be
irrelevant in who you choose to spend your time with and consider
as a
potential romantic partner. there are so many other things that
come
into play. What's important to you? Values, humor, kindness,
intelligence, height, hair color, philosophical view, political
parties? Could you truly date a democrat with all those liberal
ideas
they have? Or God forbid you find a blind conservative, but
decide to
stay with them because it's more comfortable. Relationships are
so
incredibly hard and take a lot of work .You learn a lot from each
other. But hopefully, most of the time you enjoy each other
thoroughly, know what your flaws are and continue to like the
person
despite them, and have a stronger basis for that relationship
than
mere visual acuity.
So, basically, yes, if online dating is something you want to
explore, than yes, do it! If the single chess club is something
your
into, go for it! If a singles book club, (which is totally
something
I'm looking into right now), sounds interesting, then by all
means. Be
creative, don't limit yourself to national convention or the
local
bar,, try speed dating! Trivia night! Just going to house
parties. But
most of all, be comfortable with yourself, don't go looking for a
sighted date or a blind date for validation. Because that never
ends
well. The truth of the matter is that even those of us who are
completely comfortable with their blindness, who lead, full happy
and
fulfilled life, can be put down sometimes by being perceived by
the
sighted world as somehow lacking, when we know we are not. But,
you do
learn that you really are ok, and that dating is just one more
thing
we have to do using alternative skills. I know, from the
experience of
friends, that some sighted people like to date blind people,
because
it makes them feel useful. It validates their self-worth, since
they
have someone they can help all the time. And I know blind people
who
think that dating someone who is sighted is somehow a superior
experience. I've done both, and speaking from a woman's
perspective.
All men have issues. But you can find some truly golden ones
among
them all.
A long post of mine can never be complete without my usual
reference
to fashion and looking good. Dress to bring out the best
features
of
yourself. Even at my worse jeans, shirt and sneakers college
chic,
when I wake up 10 minutes before class, I always wear color.
Because I
have a nice skin tone, and color is my friend. Look nice, get
some
delicious lotion or perfume, and go get em.
Sincerely,
Mary
On 3/22/12, Doug Oliver <oliver.doug1 at gmail.com> wrote:
I'm gonna way in on this topic.
My fiancee is actually sited and I'm blind, she's been around
blind people
growing up, so she's very much accustomed to dating a blind
person.
We've met in person twice and it's been great.
Take care,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley" <cumbiambera2005 at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
Hello all,
Like some of the people who have posted already, I have had my
own
experiences with dating, as well as simply meeting people
online. As a
matter of fact, my current boyfriend is someone I met online,
and he
is blind as well. We have been dating a little over a year now,
and I
have also had the chance to meet him in person. I can say that
some of
what we've been through, especially when we met, was both good
and
bad, and even though he is blind, it was a little more
disastrous
because of his family who are sighted. Well the first time we
actually
got to "see" each other was through a webcam, and both families
were
present, not only for discriptive purposes but also because of
us
being long distance, and it was the only way the two families
could
meet. About 6 months later I got to visit him in person, and
that was
a little weird because he lives in another country, and a part
of
another culture, and that in itself brings its own barriers. I
actually stayed at his house with his family, and I imagine it
was
hard on them because they've never dealt with another blind
person
besides him, and he is not as independent as I am. I have also
met
sighted people online, but I did not meet them through dating
sites. I
met them through pages we both visit, (blogs, etc), and in my
opinion,
that's better because you're actually meeting people you have
things
in common with, regardless of whether you date or not, and like
most
people have said already, one of the main things to consider
when
dating someone, blind or sighted, is what kinds of things you
share in
common with the other person. I personally have never dated a
sighted
person, but I have made some interesting friends online who are
sighted. Some know I'm blind, and some do not, but not because
I
haven't wanted to tell them. I don't meet these people in
person
mainly because most of them are not from the U.S. and therefore
it
really hasn't come up. Besides, I'm not as close to them, and
we
mainly talk about music, which is what i have in common with
most of
these people I meet anyway. I have also met blind friends
online, and
basically the same goes for them. So as most people have
already
said,
I don't think it's that much different dating a sighted person
from a
blind person. A blind person might be a little more
understanding
considering they go through some of the same things. But on the
other
side, that may not always be the case, if the person isn't
completely
adjusted to their blindness, or they have been with their family
their
entire life, and don't really understand the independence issue
such
as in my case. So I think dating both blind and sighted people
can
have their ups and downs, and it's just a matter of knowing how
to
handle each situation as it comes. Good luck.
On 3/22/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I have a little experience with online dating, but not much. I
was on
a dating site for a year or so and chatted with a few guys but
didn't
find anyone I actually wanted to meet in person. I have a lot
of
friends (sighted and blind) who do online dating and I've heard
the
whole gamut, from happily-ever-after marriages to disastrous
first
dates and a few people who walked away after my friend's
blindness was
revealed online. It really doesn't hurt to try it. If you do
find
someone you like and want to meet, it's best to meet them in a
public
place. But there's nothing dangerous about just putting a
profile up
and seeing what happens.
Some dating sites are free and others charge a fee for joining.
Interestingly, the site I used was free, and when I was visiting
my
sister and her roommate they were checking out one of the paid
sites.
I told them about the free site I was on and they looked at it
and
said they thought the guys on the free site were a lot more
attractive
and appealing than the guys on the paid one. So it's possible
the
people you might meet on a free site are less "desperate" and
hence
are better catches.
I'm sure there's a lot of debate about when to reveal blindness
during
an online dating encounter. Some people put it in their
profiles,
others wait until the first meeting and still others reveal it
at some
point in the middle. I'd tend to treat it like a job interview
and
reveal blindness after I've connected with someone online but
before
we meet in person so they aren't totally shocked or freaked out
when
they see me. Unfortunately rejections due to blindness can
happen at
any point in the process. You'll have to decide whether you
would
prefer to take that risk earlier on or to give them a chance to
get to
know you before they learn about your blindness.
Regarding dating blind vs. sighted people: Like many of us I
have done
both. I never consciously decided that I wanted to date a blind
person
or a sighted person, and I would not recommend that line of
thinking.
I simply dated guys with whom I felt a connection and who felt
the
same way toward me, regardless of whether or not they were
blind. I
will say that in some ways establishing the initial relationship
was
easier with blind guys, because I didn't have to wonder about
what
nonverbal signals they were sending or how they might interpret
my
nonverbal signals. However, when I try to compare the
relationship I
have had with my sighted boyfriend over the past three years
with the
other relationships I have had with blind guys, I really can't
think
of any major differences. I do think that regardless of
blindness
status, it's important for you and your partner to share
interests and
passions in common. NFB and blindness are passions that many of
us
share, and they help bring many blind couples together.
However,
there
are other interests or passions you may share with sighted folks
around you, and finding a partner who shares one of those
passions
with you can be similarly rewarding. In other words, instead of
deciding who to date based on whether they are sighted or blind,
I
think it's more helpful to choose based on how much you share in
common with them. I know that for us blind folks it can be hard
to
meet and connect with people at bars or large gatherings like
singles'
parties. But if you can find communities of people that share
your
interests-whether that be your local NFB chapter or student
division,
classes, church groups or clubs you might be in-that's a much
better
way to build lasting connections.
Arielle
On 3/22/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
Oops, I missed a point: I wouldn't go to an NFB convention
simply for
the dating scene. I'm sure relationships do develop at things
like
that, however most people are going to be preoccupied with
general
sessions, exhibits, orientation around a huge massive hotel, etc
etc
to really pay attention to who's around them for dating.
Later.
On 22.03.2012, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com
wrote:
Hello Robin,
Or you could just go ahead and do the online dating thing and
learn
from it. It has turned out well for some, and not so well for
others.
As for the sighted vs. blind thing, I would ask what you want.
Not
dating a blind person simply because you think you'll look cool
and
more independent for dating a sighted person will limit your
options,
just like not dating a sighted person because you're afraid of
being
rejected is crazy as well. We're all individuals. Many blind
people
have underlying disabilities, some may not be adjusted to their
blindness completely, etc etc but you wouldn't have to
necessarily
feel self-conscious about the blindness issues, your appearance,
etc
etc. Sighted people in my experience are going to ask many
questions.
Especially at first, you'll probably have to do a whole lot more
educating than dating, and it might get annoying, but many are
willing
to learn and it could work out. As for good dating sites ...
why
not
just getting onto the social networks like Facebook and put your
status as single? Maybe attend some of the singles conferences
that
are out there? And if someone interests you, then go after them
(whether online or not).
Anyway, talk to you later and peace. May you have much luck
with
your
dating search.
Nimer J
On 22.03.2012, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
wrote:
Also, it has been proven, that there are people on chat sites,
that
pretend to be something, to get your attention, and then when
you meet
them, they're a criminal.
Be careful, and meet people one on one, and in person.
Come to the NFB convention, and you might meet someone, and oh
yes,
there are sighted members in the NFB, as well!
Blessings, Joshua
On 3/22/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
I have never gone on to any of the online dating sites, but I
would
be
very
careful because a person online is not as friendly or charming
as
they
appear to be over emails. I have dated very few blind people
and
find
that
there is always a focus on blindness in the relationship and I
feel
that
is
a negative thing at times because we all live with blindness on
a
daily
basis and want to know we are more than our blindness. I have
found
there
are a lot of people open to dating a blind person expecially
when
they
are
confident and out going. I have been in a relationship with a
sited
person
for 3 years and things are wonderful.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin" <robinmel71 at earthlink.net
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 4:47 PM
Subject: [nabs-l] Dating & Sighted-Blind-Low Vision
Hello to everyone,
I am just wondering if anyone has had any experience with online
dating
and if so what sites would you recommend? What experiences have
you
had
with dating sighted people vs dating blind people? I look
forward to
hearing your stories.
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad.
Perhaps
there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague,
like a
breeze
among flowers.
Hellen Keller
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--
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all
corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your
machine is
up to you. Thanks.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating
system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org
To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
news.
Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com
To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
(720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
--
Nimer Jaber, IC³ and Freedom Scientific JAWS Certifications
The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended
recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil
or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all
corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your
machine is
up to you. Thanks.
Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating
system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org
To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows
XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org
You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
news.
Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com
To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
(720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
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--
Mary Fernandez
Emory 2012
"Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
--
T.S. Eliot
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