From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue May  1 00:14:58 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:14:58 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] NFB camps
Message-ID: <4f9f2b39.946fe00a.3453.1843@mx.google.com>

Well, if you're looking for an NFB training center, LCB, CCB, 
Blind Inc, and BISM are the only options.  There's LWSB in AR, 
but they're not an NFB training center nor do they claim to be 
one.  We've talked about them on this list before.  As far as NFB 
training centers close to AR, the closest NFB training center 
would be LCB, as LA borders AR.  All 4 centers offer high school 
programs.

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:20:48 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB camps

LOL!
That's all I can remember, too!
What bothered me, was that they had all of the lyrics in Braille, 
for
the other songs, but I never had the lyrics to that one.
Rania mentioned Bisom, and everyone else talked about LCB, CCB, 
and Blind Inc.
I'd like to see something, closer to Arkansas, for high school 
kids,
in my state.
We just need funding.
That's what it amounts to.
Blessings, Joshua

On 4/29/12, Jorge Paez <jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com> wrote:
 Yes, we did.  *smile*
 "You have to fight,
 for your right,
 to Blind Inc."
 That's all I remember of it.


 On Apr 29, 2012, at 3:15 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:

 Blind Inc had a song, that they sang at the karioke, two years 
ago, at
 convention.
 I wish I could find the lyrics, somewhere.
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 4/29/12, Jorge Paez <jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com> wrote:
 There is also BLIND Inc., which is another great option for NFB 
camps.
 Its similar to LCB, but they don't have their own apartments, 
which I
 think
 LCB does.
 Usually the adults stay in a complex which is somewhere more 
towards the
 center of the city if I'm not mistaken.
 As far as activities,
 its basically the same thing Sophie described,
 but for the adult program includes 3 drop off routs and a 
"graduation"
 walk
 which I think is like 5 miles.
 (I'm guessing LCB does something similar but I've never been 
there.)
 Jorge


 On Apr 29, 2012, at 2:05 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:

 Hmmm!
 Yes.
 We'd always go to different places, as well.
 Of course, your dorms were better, than the living quarters at 
the
 school for the blind.
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 4/29/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
 There's a reeeeeeeeeally great camp at Louisiana Center for the
 Blind.  It's probably a lot like the ones you attended, Joshua,
 with four classes in the morning (OandM, braille, home ec, and
 tech) and fun activitie in the evening.

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:17:32 -0500
 Subject: [nabs-l] NFB camps

 I wasn't trying to be the moderator.
 I was just asking them to take it off list, because my endbox is
 getting crowded with E-mails.
 Now, to the camps.
 The only Summer camps I attended, were at the Arkansas School 
for
 the
 Blind, so I'd like to hear more about these NFB camps, so I can
 compare them, to the camps I attended, at ASB.
 Thanks, Joshua

 On 4/29/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
 josh, you are not the moderator.  But I'll say, if you're going
 to discuss a
 blindness camp or something else, do change subject lines.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Joshua Lester
 Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 8:37 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations

 Please move this off list.
 Thanks, Joshua

 On 4/28/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
 Yeah.  I went to camp there last summer.  Have you ever been?

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
 list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 19:00:30 -0400
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations

 Hey Sophie, have you been to LCB?

 Chris Nusbaum

 "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
 2 Corinthians 5:7

 Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
 list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 16:28:18 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations

 Thanks.  Bre Brown helped me subscribe.  I live in Louisiana and
 met at the Louisiana State Convention.

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 15:58:44 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations

 Wow!
 BTW, welcome to the list.
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 4/27/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
 wish I could claim that, but sadly, it wasn't me.  I'm not a
 big
 Glee fan, and besides, I doubt they let ninth graders do cool
 stuff like that.

  ----- Original Message -----
 From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 08:57:02 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations

 There was a girl named Sophie, that sang a song from Glee, last
 year,
 in Orlando, at convention.
 Thanks, Joshua

 On 4/27/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
  What showcase of talent? The one at Buddy Camp?

   ----- Original Message -----
  From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  Date sent: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 21:02:13 -0500
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations

  Sophie, it's Kurzweil!
  Hey!
  Weren't you the one that sang, at the showcase of talent, last
  year?
  Just curious, (I know I'm off topic.)
  Thanks, Joshua

  On 4/26/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
   Yep.  As someone else said, it was created by NFB and some
 other
   company that I can't remember off the top of my head.  The
 App
 is
   free, and it's totally iPhone accessible.

    ----- Original Message -----
   From: Jorge Paez <jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com
   To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
   <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
   Date sent: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 21:45:55 -0400
   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations

   Nice.
   And its 100% accessible on the iPhone?


   On Apr 26, 2012, at 8:52 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:

    It's E-books, but the app allows you to purchase a voice
 that
   will read the E-book aloud.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Jorge Paez <jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com
    To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
   <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
    Date sent: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 18:13:03 -0400
    Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations

    Is Blio  only ebooks or also audio?



    On Apr 26, 2012, at 6:07 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:

    Blio works really well.  It's online, but it's also an App
 you
   can download on your iPhone.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
    To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
   <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
    Date sent: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 14:21:13 -0500
    Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations

    Valerie, have you heard of the Blio?
    http://www.blio.com
    This is the online version of the KNFB reader, which is the
   accessible
    Kendall, for the blind.
    Thanks, Joshua

    On 4/26/12, Valerie Gibson <valandkayla at gmail.com> wrote:
    Hi,

    So one of the features of the kendle from what i hear is
 that
  it
   will
    recommend books to you based on what you've read on kendle.
    I gather the Kendle is not accessible.  True?
    if so, does anyone know of a mac ap or IOS ap that will
   recommend books to
    you based on ∑i don't know, something you've read?

    also, does anyone know of anything that will read or
 translate
   epub or mobi
    format books?

    thanks
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue May  1 00:23:13 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:23:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] NFB camps
In-Reply-To: <4f9f2b39.946fe00a.3453.1843@mx.google.com>
References: <4f9f2b39.946fe00a.3453.1843@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOssw+dpA2PDnWZ6qZq+wjgRZA8mEzOqgmJd8P6o1uG+zQ@mail.gmail.com>

That's right, but if I'm ever able to make money, from my music
career, and my other job prospect, I'd like to invest in starting a
center, here.
Blessings, Joshua

On 4/30/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, if you're looking for an NFB training center, LCB, CCB,
> Blind Inc, and BISM are the only options.  There's LWSB in AR,
> but they're not an NFB training center nor do they claim to be
> one.  We've talked about them on this list before.  As far as NFB
> training centers close to AR, the closest NFB training center
> would be LCB, as LA borders AR.  All 4 centers offer high school
> programs.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>
> Sent from my BrailleNote
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:20:48 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB camps
>
> LOL!
> That's all I can remember, too!
> What bothered me, was that they had all of the lyrics in Braille,
> for
> the other songs, but I never had the lyrics to that one.
> Rania mentioned Bisom, and everyone else talked about LCB, CCB,
> and Blind Inc.
> I'd like to see something, closer to Arkansas, for high school
> kids,
> in my state.
> We just need funding.
> That's what it amounts to.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 4/29/12, Jorge Paez <jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Yes, we did.  *smile*
>  "You have to fight,
>  for your right,
>  to Blind Inc."
>  That's all I remember of it.
>
>
>  On Apr 29, 2012, at 3:15 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>
>  Blind Inc had a song, that they sang at the karioke, two years
> ago, at
>  convention.
>  I wish I could find the lyrics, somewhere.
>  Blessings, Joshua
>
>  On 4/29/12, Jorge Paez <jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  There is also BLIND Inc., which is another great option for NFB
> camps.
>  Its similar to LCB, but they don't have their own apartments,
> which I
>  think
>  LCB does.
>  Usually the adults stay in a complex which is somewhere more
> towards the
>  center of the city if I'm not mistaken.
>  As far as activities,
>  its basically the same thing Sophie described,
>  but for the adult program includes 3 drop off routs and a
> "graduation"
>  walk
>  which I think is like 5 miles.
>  (I'm guessing LCB does something similar but I've never been
> there.)
>  Jorge
>
>
>  On Apr 29, 2012, at 2:05 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>
>  Hmmm!
>  Yes.
>  We'd always go to different places, as well.
>  Of course, your dorms were better, than the living quarters at
> the
>  school for the blind.
>  Blessings, Joshua
>
>  On 4/29/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>  There's a reeeeeeeeeally great camp at Louisiana Center for the
>  Blind.  It's probably a lot like the ones you attended, Joshua,
>  with four classes in the morning (OandM, braille, home ec, and
>  tech) and fun activitie in the evening.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:17:32 -0500
>  Subject: [nabs-l] NFB camps
>
>  I wasn't trying to be the moderator.
>  I was just asking them to take it off list, because my endbox is
>  getting crowded with E-mails.
>  Now, to the camps.
>  The only Summer camps I attended, were at the Arkansas School
> for
>  the
>  Blind, so I'd like to hear more about these NFB camps, so I can
>  compare them, to the camps I attended, at ASB.
>  Thanks, Joshua
>
>  On 4/29/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>  josh, you are not the moderator.  But I'll say, if you're going
>  to discuss a
>  blindness camp or something else, do change subject lines.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Joshua Lester
>  Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 8:37 PM
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations
>
>  Please move this off list.
>  Thanks, Joshua
>
>  On 4/28/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Yeah.  I went to camp there last summer.  Have you ever been?
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
>  list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 19:00:30 -0400
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations
>
>  Hey Sophie, have you been to LCB?
>
>  Chris Nusbaum
>
>  "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
>  2 Corinthians 5:7
>
>  Sent from my BrailleNote
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
>  list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  sent: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 16:28:18 -0500
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations
>
>  Thanks.  Bre Brown helped me subscribe.  I live in Louisiana and
>  met at the Louisiana State Convention.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 15:58:44 -0500
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations
>
>  Wow!
>  BTW, welcome to the list.
>  Blessings, Joshua
>
>  On 4/27/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>  wish I could claim that, but sadly, it wasn't me.  I'm not a
>  big
>  Glee fan, and besides, I doubt they let ninth graders do cool
>  stuff like that.
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 08:57:02 -0500
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations
>
>  There was a girl named Sophie, that sang a song from Glee, last
>  year,
>  in Orlando, at convention.
>  Thanks, Joshua
>
>  On 4/27/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>   What showcase of talent? The one at Buddy Camp?
>
>    ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>   To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>   <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>   Date sent: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 21:02:13 -0500
>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations
>
>   Sophie, it's Kurzweil!
>   Hey!
>   Weren't you the one that sang, at the showcase of talent, last
>   year?
>   Just curious, (I know I'm off topic.)
>   Thanks, Joshua
>
>   On 4/26/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>    Yep.  As someone else said, it was created by NFB and some
>  other
>    company that I can't remember off the top of my head.  The
>  App
>  is
>    free, and it's totally iPhone accessible.
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>    From: Jorge Paez <jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com
>    To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>    <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>    Date sent: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 21:45:55 -0400
>    Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations
>
>    Nice.
>    And its 100% accessible on the iPhone?
>
>
>    On Apr 26, 2012, at 8:52 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>
>     It's E-books, but the app allows you to purchase a voice
>  that
>    will read the E-book aloud.
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: Jorge Paez <jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com
>     To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>    <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>     Date sent: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 18:13:03 -0400
>     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations
>
>     Is Blio  only ebooks or also audio?
>
>
>
>     On Apr 26, 2012, at 6:07 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>
>     Blio works really well.  It's online, but it's also an App
>  you
>    can download on your iPhone.
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>     To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>    <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>     Date sent: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 14:21:13 -0500
>     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations
>
>     Valerie, have you heard of the Blio?
>     http://www.blio.com
>     This is the online version of the KNFB reader, which is the
>    accessible
>     Kendall, for the blind.
>     Thanks, Joshua
>
>     On 4/26/12, Valerie Gibson <valandkayla at gmail.com> wrote:
>     Hi,
>
>     So one of the features of the kendle from what i hear is
>  that
>   it
>    will
>     recommend books to you based on what you've read on kendle.
>     I gather the Kendle is not accessible.  True?
>     if so, does anyone know of a mac ap or IOS ap that will
>    recommend books to
>     you based on ∑i don't know, something you've read?
>
>     also, does anyone know of anything that will read or
>  translate
>    epub or mobi
>     format books?
>
>     thanks
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue May  1 00:23:28 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:23:28 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] downloadable webster dictionary
Message-ID: <4f9f2d37.88d5e00a.118c.1516@mx.google.com>

Thanks!

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 20:31:27 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] downloadable webster dictionary

Oopsies.  By the way, Chris, I like that quote at the bottom of
your email signature.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:53:51 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] downloadable webster dictionary

FYI, the dictionary for the BrailleNote is the Oxford dictionary,
not the Webster.

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 19:30:17 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] downloadable webster dictionary

Do you have a braillenote, Gloria? Because if so, the Apex has a
dictionary built into it and any other braillenote has a
dictionary card you can buy from Humanware.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gloria G" <gloria.graves at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 16:01:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] downloadable webster dictionary

Hello All,
I was wondering if anyone knew where I could download a
dictionary to keep on my computer? I would like to be able to
have it in a document and be able to go and search for a word.
Please let me know.
Thanks
_______________________________________________
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue May  1 00:35:36 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:35:36 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] NFB camps
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOssw+dpA2PDnWZ6qZq+wjgRZA8mEzOqgmJd8P6o1uG+zQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f9f2b39.946fe00a.3453.1843@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOssw+dpA2PDnWZ6qZq+wjgRZA8mEzOqgmJd8P6o1uG+zQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002c01cd2732$5472cc30$fd586490$@gmail.com>

That would be cool! Good luck!

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 8:23 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB camps

That's right, but if I'm ever able to make money, from my music career, and
my other job prospect, I'd like to invest in starting a center, here.
Blessings, Joshua

On 4/30/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, if you're looking for an NFB training center, LCB, CCB, Blind 
> Inc, and BISM are the only options.  There's LWSB in AR, but they're 
> not an NFB training center nor do they claim to be one.  We've talked 
> about them on this list before.  As far as NFB training centers close 
> to AR, the closest NFB training center would be LCB, as LA borders AR.  
> All 4 centers offer high school programs.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>
> Sent from my BrailleNote
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:20:48 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] NFB camps
>
> LOL!
> That's all I can remember, too!
> What bothered me, was that they had all of the lyrics in Braille, for 
> the other songs, but I never had the lyrics to that one.
> Rania mentioned Bisom, and everyone else talked about LCB, CCB, and 
> Blind Inc.
> I'd like to see something, closer to Arkansas, for high school kids, 
> in my state.
> We just need funding.
> That's what it amounts to.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 4/29/12, Jorge Paez <jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Yes, we did.  *smile*
>  "You have to fight,
>  for your right,
>  to Blind Inc."
>  That's all I remember of it.
>
>
>  On Apr 29, 2012, at 3:15 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>
>  Blind Inc had a song, that they sang at the karioke, two years ago, 
> at  convention.
>  I wish I could find the lyrics, somewhere.
>  Blessings, Joshua
>
>  On 4/29/12, Jorge Paez <jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  There is also BLIND Inc., which is another great option for NFB 
> camps.
>  Its similar to LCB, but they don't have their own apartments, which I  
> think  LCB does.
>  Usually the adults stay in a complex which is somewhere more towards 
> the  center of the city if I'm not mistaken.
>  As far as activities,
>  its basically the same thing Sophie described,  but for the adult 
> program includes 3 drop off routs and a "graduation"
>  walk
>  which I think is like 5 miles.
>  (I'm guessing LCB does something similar but I've never been
> there.)
>  Jorge
>
>
>  On Apr 29, 2012, at 2:05 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>
>  Hmmm!
>  Yes.
>  We'd always go to different places, as well.
>  Of course, your dorms were better, than the living quarters at the  
> school for the blind.
>  Blessings, Joshua
>
>  On 4/29/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>  There's a reeeeeeeeeally great camp at Louisiana Center for the  
> Blind.  It's probably a lot like the ones you attended, Joshua,  with 
> four classes in the morning (OandM, braille, home ec, and
>  tech) and fun activitie in the evening.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list  
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org  Date sent: Sun, 29 Apr 2012 09:17:32 -0500
>  Subject: [nabs-l] NFB camps
>
>  I wasn't trying to be the moderator.
>  I was just asking them to take it off list, because my endbox is  
> getting crowded with E-mails.
>  Now, to the camps.
>  The only Summer camps I attended, were at the Arkansas School for  
> the  Blind, so I'd like to hear more about these NFB camps, so I can  
> compare them, to the camps I attended, at ASB.
>  Thanks, Joshua
>
>  On 4/29/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>  josh, you are not the moderator.  But I'll say, if you're going  to 
> discuss a  blindness camp or something else, do change subject lines.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Joshua Lester
>  Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2012 8:37 PM
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations
>
>  Please move this off list.
>  Thanks, Joshua
>
>  On 4/28/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Yeah.  I went to camp there last summer.  Have you ever been?
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing  
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org  Date sent: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 19:00:30 -0400
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations
>
>  Hey Sophie, have you been to LCB?
>
>  Chris Nusbaum
>
>  "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
>  2 Corinthians 5:7
>
>  Sent from my BrailleNote
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing  
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  sent: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 16:28:18 -0500
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations
>
>  Thanks.  Bre Brown helped me subscribe.  I live in Louisiana and  met 
> at the Louisiana State Convention.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list  
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org  Date sent: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 15:58:44 -0500
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations
>
>  Wow!
>  BTW, welcome to the list.
>  Blessings, Joshua
>
>  On 4/27/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>  wish I could claim that, but sadly, it wasn't me.  I'm not a  big  
> Glee fan, and besides, I doubt they let ninth graders do cool  stuff 
> like that.
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list  
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org  Date sent: Fri, 27 Apr 2012 08:57:02 -0500
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations
>
>  There was a girl named Sophie, that sang a song from Glee, last  
> year,  in Orlando, at convention.
>  Thanks, Joshua
>
>  On 4/27/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>   What showcase of talent? The one at Buddy Camp?
>
>    ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>   To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>   <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>   Date sent: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 21:02:13 -0500
>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations
>
>   Sophie, it's Kurzweil!
>   Hey!
>   Weren't you the one that sang, at the showcase of talent, last
>   year?
>   Just curious, (I know I'm off topic.)
>   Thanks, Joshua
>
>   On 4/26/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>    Yep.  As someone else said, it was created by NFB and some  other
>    company that I can't remember off the top of my head.  The  App  is
>    free, and it's totally iPhone accessible.
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>    From: Jorge Paez <jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com
>    To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>    <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>    Date sent: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 21:45:55 -0400
>    Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations
>
>    Nice.
>    And its 100% accessible on the iPhone?
>
>
>    On Apr 26, 2012, at 8:52 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>
>     It's E-books, but the app allows you to purchase a voice  that
>    will read the E-book aloud.
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: Jorge Paez <jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com
>     To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>    <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>     Date sent: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 18:13:03 -0400
>     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations
>
>     Is Blio  only ebooks or also audio?
>
>
>
>     On Apr 26, 2012, at 6:07 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>
>     Blio works really well.  It's online, but it's also an App  you
>    can download on your iPhone.
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>     To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>    <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>     Date sent: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 14:21:13 -0500
>     Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations
>
>     Valerie, have you heard of the Blio?
>     http://www.blio.com
>     This is the online version of the KNFB reader, which is the
>    accessible
>     Kendall, for the blind.
>     Thanks, Joshua
>
>     On 4/26/12, Valerie Gibson <valandkayla at gmail.com> wrote:
>     Hi,
>
>     So one of the features of the kendle from what i hear is  that
>   it
>    will
>     recommend books to you based on what you've read on kendle.
>     I gather the Kendle is not accessible.  True?
>     if so, does anyone know of a mac ap or IOS ap that will
>    recommend books to
>     you based on $B-t(Bi don't know, something you've read?
>
>     also, does anyone know of anything that will read or  translate
>    epub or mobi
>     format books?
>
>     thanks
>     _______________________________________________
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue May  1 00:42:12 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:42:12 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] question about purchasing a scanner to scan class texts
In-Reply-To: <CAHQh3+ZhX5TpF2MO8uwaApdmGYPQH4G_2L4VNv0gU6oGaxPYvw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHQh3+ZhX5TpF2MO8uwaApdmGYPQH4G_2L4VNv0gU6oGaxPYvw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002d01cd2733$407383e0$c15a8ba0$@gmail.com>

Osmond,

I would recommend the HP 8600. This is an all-in-one scanner, printer, faxer
and copier, and since it has a paper feed, it can do mass-scanning. Another
great feature of the HP 8600 printers is that you can scan a document and do
OCR on it all from within the built-in program for the program and without
using a program like Kurzweil or OpenBook.

Good luck and hope this helps,

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Osmond Kwan
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 6:53 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] question about purchasing a scanner to scan class texts

Hi All,

The last time I got a new system was in 2005. My scanner which I use to scan
books for classes is about six years old and rather slow. I am looking to
upgrade both my system and my scanner. I am wondering what type of scanner
people use to do mass scanning e.g. 25-30 books a school term.

Thanks,
Osmond

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue May  1 00:52:47 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:52:47 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Blindtlk] First Ever!  Paddle With The Blind!
In-Reply-To: <E155CFD99F9347B8B385929F8B72065D@Jessica>
References: <E155CFD99F9347B8B385929F8B72065D@Jessica>
Message-ID: <002f01cd2734$bb3fddc0$31bf9940$@gmail.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Jessica Kostiw
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 2:26 PM
To: 'NFB of Virginia Information and Announcements'; 'Blind Talk Mailing
List'; 'Sports and Recreation for the Blind Discussion List'
Subject: [Blindtlk] First Ever! Paddle With The Blind!
Importance: High

PADDLE WITH THE BLIND

Saturday, June 2nd, on the historic 

Rappahannock River City Dock

 

 

The NFB of Fredericksburg, area Lions Clubs, and the Virginia Outdoors
Center, invite you for a two hour kayak or canoe paddle down the flat water
of the Rappahannock.  Two sessions (9:30a.m-12:00p.m and 1:00p.m-3:30p.m)
will be available for sign up.  Share your paddling excursion with friends,
or charge up for your upcoming adventure over a delicious picnic lunch,
provided from 12-1.

 

Thanks to the Virginia Outdoors Center, all necessary life-jackets, boats,
and paddles will be provided free of charge!  All you have to do is show up.

 

No experience?  No transportation?  No problem!  Experienced guides will be
at your service to ensure you have an adventure to remember.  Transportation
may be provided.  To ensure all is in place, deadline for registration is
May 21st!  

 

To register, or for any questions, email Jessica Reed at:

Jessicac.kostiw at gmail.com

Or call: 540-371-1651

 

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From jordyn2493 at gmail.com  Tue May  1 01:05:59 2012
From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:05:59 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Math equations in .pdf format
Message-ID: <4F9F36F7.3040602@gmail.com>

Hi All,
I have a .pdf file containing math equations that I want to read in an 
accessible format. Does anyone know how I'd do this, or know of any 
software I can use. I tried Kurzweil, but ovbiously, the math 
expressions don't come out right.
Thanks!
Jordyn


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Tue May  1 01:23:13 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:23:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
Message-ID: <4f9f3b18.0959650a.0e66.705e@mx.google.com>

Don't get a Pac Mate. They're far less user friendly than the 
braillenote.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 18:06:10 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers

Get an IPad, and a focus 40 Braille display, and you'll be good 
to go.
That, or a Pac Mate, or Braille Note.
Blessings, Joshua

On 4/30/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi all,
 I use a lot of electronic materials but would like to be able to 
print out
 notes for myself in a way that is easier and more portable for 
me. I use a
 slate and stylus sometimes, but as we all know that can take a 
lot of time.
 What type of braille embosser would you guys recommend? Or is 
there another
 rout I should take?
 Thanks
 _______________________________________________
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue May  1 01:24:46 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 21:24:46 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] books recommendations
In-Reply-To: <C68F2F40-FC26-41EE-8088-21D5BD8FA4A0@gmail.com>
References: <4f99c71e.038e640a.096f.ffffc492@mx.google.com>
	<C68F2F40-FC26-41EE-8088-21D5BD8FA4A0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003a01cd2739$32cb5d20$98621760$@gmail.com>

I believe it is only eBooks.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jorge Paez
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 6:13 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations

Is Blio  only ebooks or also audio?



On Apr 26, 2012, at 6:07 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:

> Blio works really well. It's online, but it's also an App you can download
on your iPhone.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Thu, 26 Apr 2012 14:21:13 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] books recommendations
> 
> Valerie, have you heard of the Blio?
> http://www.blio.com
> This is the online version of the KNFB reader, which is the accessible 
> Kendall, for the blind.
> Thanks, Joshua
> 
> On 4/26/12, Valerie Gibson <valandkayla at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> So one of the features of the kendle from what i hear is that it will 
> recommend books to you based on what you've read on kendle.
> I gather the Kendle is not accessible. True?
> if so, does anyone know of a mac ap or IOS ap that will recommend 
> books to you based on $B-t(Bi don't know, something you've read?
> 
> also, does anyone know of anything that will read or translate epub or 
> mobi format books?
> 
> thanks
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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From zach2012 at chickerland.com  Tue May  1 01:26:22 2012
From: zach2012 at chickerland.com (Zach)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 19:26:22 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Math equations in .pdf format
In-Reply-To: <4F9F36F7.3040602@gmail.com>
References: <4F9F36F7.3040602@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <149122C67064465EBC582F423CC6DBB4@ZachlaptopPC>

try convertfiles.com, convert to ms word. We are on fb together still, I 
assume, if you need further help find me there or on skype as seen in my 
signature below!



Zach Griego-Dreicer
Email: zach2012 at chickerland.com
Skype and Twitter: Chickerland
Facebook profile: http://www.facebook.com/chickerland or find me using this 
email address.
-----Original Message----- 
From: Jordyn Castor
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 7:05 PM
To: NabsLink
Subject: [nabs-l] Math equations in .pdf format

Hi All,
I have a .pdf file containing math equations that I want to read in an
accessible format. Does anyone know how I'd do this, or know of any
software I can use. I tried Kurzweil, but ovbiously, the math
expressions don't come out right.
Thanks!
Jordyn

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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Tue May  1 01:26:34 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:26:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] question about purchasing a scanner to scan class texts
Message-ID: <4f9f3be1.2a23ec0a.411f.72f2@mx.google.com>

What is the benefit of having one of these scanners? How exactly 
do they work?

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:42:12 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question about purchasing a scanner to scan 
class texts

Osmond,

I would recommend the HP 8600. This is an all-in-one scanner, 
printer, faxer
and copier, and since it has a paper feed, it can do 
mass-scanning. Another
great feature of the HP 8600 printers is that you can scan a 
document and do
OCR on it all from within the built-in program for the program 
and without
using a program like Kurzweil or OpenBook.

Good luck and hope this helps,

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Osmond Kwan
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 6:53 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] question about purchasing a scanner to scan 
class texts

Hi All,

The last time I got a new system was in 2005. My scanner which I 
use to scan
books for classes is about six years old and rather slow. I am 
looking to
upgrade both my system and my scanner. I am wondering what type 
of scanner
people use to do mass scanning e.g. 25-30 books a school term.

Thanks,
Osmond

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om


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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue May  1 01:28:24 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:28:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
In-Reply-To: <4f9f3b18.0959650a.0e66.705e@mx.google.com>
References: <4f9f3b18.0959650a.0e66.705e@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvJEJOcLMELJe3DDuPf9qCnXN3sL73zMEcXVHc6jr9cMA@mail.gmail.com>

Bla, Bla, Bla!
The Braillenote has too many compartments, that I don't need.
I didn't have any problems with my Pac Mate.
I'm still interested in the Apex, though.
Since this thread is talking about Braille embossers, though, as I've
stated, there aren't any portable ones.
I'd like to get a Braille Embosser, for school, though.
I'm interested in getting the Juliet, although the Romeo is cheaper,
or so I'm told.
Blessings, Joshua

On 4/30/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> Don't get a Pac Mate. They're far less user friendly than the
> braillenote.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 18:06:10 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
>
> Get an IPad, and a focus 40 Braille display, and you'll be good
> to go.
> That, or a Pac Mate, or Braille Note.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 4/30/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi all,
>  I use a lot of electronic materials but would like to be able to
> print out
>  notes for myself in a way that is easier and more portable for
> me. I use a
>  slate and stylus sometimes, but as we all know that can take a
> lot of time.
>  What type of braille embosser would you guys recommend? Or is
> there another
>  rout I should take?
>  Thanks
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
> 0students.pccua.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
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> r%40gmail.com
>
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From iperrault at hotmail.com  Tue May  1 02:28:42 2012
From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault)
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 22:28:42 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Barcode Reader Applications
Message-ID: <SNT111-DS18EF7C301EB1585988D5B6BF290@phx.gbl>

Hi
Are there any accessible IPhone barcode reader applications? Ones that read menus, cans, and other inaccessible things. I’ll be getting my iphone Wednesday and it would be great to get something that is close to the KNFB reader.

Ian

From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com  Tue May  1 05:54:45 2012
From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 01:54:45 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Notes for April
Message-ID: <CAPnwOUP7UhyROufkg7ODsYJyVS7iif_bunE-T=8uP5U69_oaCg@mail.gmail.com>

Here attached and pasted below is the NABS Notes update for April.


NABS Notes

April 2012


In this edition of NABS’ monthly bulletin:

1. Convention Right Around the Corner
2. State Updates
3. Meeting Minutes

Convention Right Around the Corner

While it may appear that there isn’t a whole lot going on this month,
we are in the middle of the calm before the storm! The NFB National
Convention in Dallas Texas is only two months away, and NABS is
working to put together an informative and exciting agenda for our
annual meeting. In addition to our business meeting, NABS will be
holding our annual Monte Carlo Fundraiser, as well as an informal
social where students can gather to meet new friends and reconnect
with old ones. If you would be interested in helping with the planning
of any of NABS’ convention events, or willing to offer assistance in
Dallas with running any of them, please contact Sean Whalen at 608
332-4147 or nabs.president at gmail.com.

State Announcements

Note: All announcements are printed below as they were received from
their senders. No effort to edit for content, grammar or clarity has
been made on the part of NABS.

There were no state updates received in the month of April.

Meeting Minutes

Please find the minutes for NABS’ April 2012 board meeting pasted
below. As always, please do not hesitate to contact me with any
questions, concerns or suggestions. The NABS Board works for you, and
we want to know how we’re doing! Thanks for reading, and we’ll be back
in May.

Sean Whalen
President, National Association of Blind Students
(608) 332-4147
Nabs.president at gmail.com

National Association of Blind Students

Board Meeting Minutes
April 21, 2012

Meeting called to order at 8:35.

Members Present:

Sean Whalen
Karen Anderson
Darian Smith
Cindy Bennett
Shelby Ball
Candice Chapman
Briley Pollard
Domonique Lawless

Committee Reports

Fundraising: Leftover mugs are being sold. The Fundraising Committee
will be meeting in April to discuss fundraising options for national
convention.

Membership: Membership had a sports call today. They want to have an
accessible math call. High school committee is interested in doing
outreach. Next call is focusing on bullying.

Slate: Next issue is coming.

Website: The resource list is in progress. We have noticed that
national has not updated NABS contacts or slate issues. The issue will
be looked into as to whether we can link nabslink to national’s
website.

Regional Updates

Northwest:

Southwest: Working on a regional seminar. They are trying to get more
committed people so Nevada can block out rooms in a hotel.

Central Plains:

Midwest: MN had a successful first student seminar. Wisconsin had a
good convention.

South: New president in Louisiana and Missouri.

New England:

Mid-Atlantic:

Southeast:

Old Business

Treasury report: Nothing has happened, and the check from the credit
card transactions has not arrived. Cindy will talk to JJ.

Rep Requests:

Leadership seminar: After discussion of the ability to put together an
optimally informative and beneficial seminar between now and early
June, especially in light of commitments related to preparing for
convention, the board voted in a motion proposed by Darian and
seconded by Briley to postpone the leadership seminar to a later date.
The motion carried.

New Business

National convention: A committee needs to be created. Candice made a
motion to explore combining the social and formal preferences of NABS
events at convention. Domonique seconded, and the motion passed.
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From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Tue May  1 13:26:16 2012
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 09:26:16 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Barcode Reader Applications
In-Reply-To: <SNT111-DS18EF7C301EB1585988D5B6BF290@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT111-DS18EF7C301EB1585988D5B6BF290@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CABORmNsuGOMigJxyXJHQasAM4kaNTit5Ab=2Qcz=SxVfR7ivrA@mail.gmail.com>

There aren't, too my knowledge, any apps that substitute for the KNFB
reader. However, there are a few apps that can be of use in reading
text, figuring out what's in a can, even describing the pattern on
your bathroom tiles.

The first app is SayText. It's the best (not perfect, but the best
I've found) for reading texts. It does take a little practice, but
once you get the hang of how to take a picture, it's not so hard. You
have to place the camera in the middle of the page, then press Take a
Picture, then slowly lift the phone until it says "Edges Detected." At
this point, it'll take the actual picture, and then you can read it
off the screen with flick gesturing.

The next app is called O Moby (not sure if it's spelled right, might
be Oh Moby). This app is quite siple. Take a picture of something, and
it tells you what it is. Take a picture of a striped shirt and it'll
say 'striped shirt.' Take a picutre of a guide dog and it says 'guide
dog.' Good for basic descriptions or quick recognition. I'm told it
works on cans and boxes, such as calling a box of Cheerios by name,
though I've not tried that out yet.

Another, similar app is VizWhiz. The big difference is that when you
take a picture of something, you can record a question and send it to
a real person (whereas the last app searches images over the
internet). So, that's just what you do...take a picture, say of a dog.
Then record your question ("What breed is this dog?") and get the
answer back from a volunteer or from someone on your contact list
("This dog is an all-American mutt.") This is especially good for
details, such as finding the barcode on a product ("The barcode is in
the lower right corner.") or finding your way ("The street signs say
Main Street and Fifth Avenue). You are sure to get the right can of
soup if you check with VizWhiz first!

I hope this helps a little. I'm sure there are others out there, but
these are some that were recommended and tested by me, and approved as
useful in my life as a p erson who is currently only able to see light
and dark and a little movement.

Later,
Jewel

On 4/30/12, Ian Perrault <iperrault at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
> Are there any accessible IPhone barcode reader applications? Ones that read
> menus, cans, and other inaccessible things. I’ll be getting my iphone
> Wednesday and it would be great to get something that is close to the KNFB
> reader.
>
> Ian
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>


From cassonw at gmail.com  Tue May  1 14:15:01 2012
From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 08:15:01 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Math equations in .pdf format
In-Reply-To: <149122C67064465EBC582F423CC6DBB4@ZachlaptopPC>
References: <4F9F36F7.3040602@gmail.com>
	<149122C67064465EBC582F423CC6DBB4@ZachlaptopPC>
Message-ID: <CAEWJ-9mKsjStWi=yqK5Updg+B2jOv83NUzJ+ua7p++OWfe_Bsg@mail.gmail.com>

Depending on the time and the resources you have, converting the file
to a MathML format has been the most helpful to me. The files once
generated are opened in IE with the mathPlayer plugin. All the
equations and formulas then show up in their textual representation
close to how a reader would read the information to you. My school is
the one that generates the files from the PDF we get from the
publisher. I think a bit of googleing will turn up more details on
creating these files. Also, feel free to email me and I will try to
help as well.
Bill

On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Zach <zach2012 at chickerland.com> wrote:
> try convertfiles.com, convert to ms word. We are on fb together still, I
> assume, if you need further help find me there or on skype as seen in my
> signature below!
>
>
>
> Zach Griego-Dreicer
> Email: zach2012 at chickerland.com
> Skype and Twitter: Chickerland
> Facebook profile: http://www.facebook.com/chickerland or find me using this
> email address.
> -----Original Message----- From: Jordyn Castor
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 7:05 PM
> To: NabsLink
> Subject: [nabs-l] Math equations in .pdf format
>
>
> Hi All,
> I have a .pdf file containing math equations that I want to read in an
> accessible format. Does anyone know how I'd do this, or know of any
> software I can use. I tried Kurzweil, but ovbiously, the math
> expressions don't come out right.
> Thanks!
> Jordyn
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zach2012%40chickerland.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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-- 
Bill Casson
University of New Mexico
M.S. Computer Science
Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11
B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci.
(505) 695-1374
cassonw at gmail.com


From isaiah5719 at mchsi.com  Tue May  1 15:02:31 2012
From: isaiah5719 at mchsi.com (Loren)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 10:02:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOvJEJOcLMELJe3DDuPf9qCnXN3sL73zMEcXVHc6jr9cMA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f9f3b18.0959650a.0e66.705e@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOvJEJOcLMELJe3DDuPf9qCnXN3sL73zMEcXVHc6jr9cMA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <008c01cd27ab$6f0100c0$4d030240$@mchsi.com>

While the romeo may  be cheaper, the Juliet will emboss on both sides of the
paper.  As for portability, that is a relative term.  The Juliet weighs
somewhere around forty-five to fifty pounds and the Romeo is a little less.
I'm not sure how much the Romeo 25 weighs.  If you can still find them, the
blazer weighs around ten pounds and has a handle to carry it by.  I
understand you can also get a case to carry it over your shoulder, but I
have never actually seen one.  The et is just a slimmed down version of the
Juliet and takes its name from the last two letters of the Juliet.  And none
of them are inexpensive.  

Loren Wakefield 



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 8:28 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers

Bla, Bla, Bla!
The Braillenote has too many compartments, that I don't need.
I didn't have any problems with my Pac Mate.
I'm still interested in the Apex, though.
Since this thread is talking about Braille embossers, though, as I've
stated, there aren't any portable ones.
I'd like to get a Braille Embosser, for school, though.
I'm interested in getting the Juliet, although the Romeo is cheaper, or so
I'm told.
Blessings, Joshua

On 4/30/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> Don't get a Pac Mate. They're far less user friendly than the 
> braillenote.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 18:06:10 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
>
> Get an IPad, and a focus 40 Braille display, and you'll be good to go.
> That, or a Pac Mate, or Braille Note.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 4/30/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>  Hi all,
>  I use a lot of electronic materials but would like to be able to 
> print out  notes for myself in a way that is easier and more portable 
> for me. I use a  slate and stylus sometimes, but as we all know that 
> can take a lot of time.
>  What type of braille embosser would you guys recommend? Or is there 
> another  rout I should take?
>  Thanks
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
> 0students.pccua.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
> ents.pccua.edu
>

_______________________________________________
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From isaiah5719 at mchsi.com  Tue May  1 15:10:55 2012
From: isaiah5719 at mchsi.com (Loren)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 10:10:55 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
In-Reply-To: <68504316D95D404EAC908579875CAB0D@Gloria>
References: <82E921D8E50D4A58A18FA5E04B62379C@Gloria>	<CAO83KOv5qpTNV==cnPC2OtDm0aA1oEzPkDLFD+YVKojskXVv8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<68504316D95D404EAC908579875CAB0D@Gloria>
Message-ID: <008d01cd27ac$9b5ddb10$d2199130$@mchsi.com>

You can get the i-pad and focus for around 32 to 3500 or so.  It is about
half the cost of a braille notetaker, and will give you access to much more
material.  

The down side is, that the i-pad is an apple product and if you are use to
windows' based product, you will have a learning curve to deal with.  

It is my opinion though, that as funds gets tighter, rehab will have to
consider apple products more and more because the speech and drivers for
braille devices are built in and it saves a bunch  of money in the longrun.

Loren 




-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Gloria G
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 6:13 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers

how much is te braille display you suggested? how does tis work do you have
one?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers


> Get an IPad, and a focus 40 Braille display, and you'll be good to go.
> That, or a Pac Mate, or Braille Note.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 4/30/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I use a lot of electronic materials but would like to be able to 
>> print out notes for myself in a way that is easier and more portable 
>> for me. I use a slate and stylus sometimes, but as we all know that 
>> can take a lot of time.
>> What type of braille embosser would you guys recommend? Or is there 
>> another rout I should take?
>> Thanks
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stu
>> dents.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gm
> ail.com


_______________________________________________
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nabs-l:
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From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Tue May  1 16:34:56 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 11:34:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
References: <4f9f3b18.0959650a.0e66.705e@mx.google.com><CAO83KOvJEJOcLMELJe3DDuPf9qCnXN3sL73zMEcXVHc6jr9cMA@mail.gmail.com>
	<008c01cd27ab$6f0100c0$4d030240$@mchsi.com>
Message-ID: <ABD646883503465F8F237E4AB3ACC15B@Gloria>

Hi,
I did not mean that I wanted the emboser to be portable, I meant I want to 
be able to take my notes with me. I know I could use the braille note and 
other note taking devices, but I would like somethig in which I can produce 
braille on paper for myself.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Loren" <isaiah5719 at mchsi.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers


> While the romeo may  be cheaper, the Juliet will emboss on both sides of 
> the
> paper.  As for portability, that is a relative term.  The Juliet weighs
> somewhere around forty-five to fifty pounds and the Romeo is a little 
> less.
> I'm not sure how much the Romeo 25 weighs.  If you can still find them, 
> the
> blazer weighs around ten pounds and has a handle to carry it by.  I
> understand you can also get a case to carry it over your shoulder, but I
> have never actually seen one.  The et is just a slimmed down version of 
> the
> Juliet and takes its name from the last two letters of the Juliet.  And 
> none
> of them are inexpensive.
>
> Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Joshua Lester
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 8:28 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
>
> Bla, Bla, Bla!
> The Braillenote has too many compartments, that I don't need.
> I didn't have any problems with my Pac Mate.
> I'm still interested in the Apex, though.
> Since this thread is talking about Braille embossers, though, as I've
> stated, there aren't any portable ones.
> I'd like to get a Braille Embosser, for school, though.
> I'm interested in getting the Juliet, although the Romeo is cheaper, or so
> I'm told.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 4/30/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Don't get a Pac Mate. They're far less user friendly than the
>> braillenote.
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 18:06:10 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
>>
>> Get an IPad, and a focus 40 Braille display, and you'll be good to go.
>> That, or a Pac Mate, or Braille Note.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 4/30/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  Hi all,
>>  I use a lot of electronic materials but would like to be able to
>> print out  notes for myself in a way that is easier and more portable
>> for me. I use a  slate and stylus sometimes, but as we all know that
>> can take a lot of time.
>>  What type of braille embosser would you guys recommend? Or is there
>> another  rout I should take?
>>  Thanks
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>  nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
>> ents.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com 



From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Tue May  1 17:13:32 2012
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 13:13:32 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] JAWS reading font colour and style...
In-Reply-To: <EF03B72E140B684EAED1697E8D062CC602BBC0@BY2PRD0610MB352.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CABORmNsu1gk2Ddxe7pMkO1xmHs3Z3n7R3anL8ic4xAWH1BnzBw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgPNJ=Pf4_3kr66uJXZ_kHq9z5Pmodq-LS_Saw8tuyA6JA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CABORmNupSRqCFBzB-mdQHhd37BMZgE=deLkC=ja6knv0vPOsiQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<E231AAC475CC42588730E798DFCA95C7@HUMBERTOAVILA>
	<EF03B72E140B684EAED1697E8D062CC602BBC0@BY2PRD0610MB352.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CABORmNu3ggizELf2iOTy1KWhP=-i0pyEJT=xmi3p0+xGoc2ZGQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks! The JAWS + 6 was just what I was looking for, and the JAWS +
Alt + S is a great key to know, too. Now I'll be able to see the
colour on a colour-coded article; yay!!

~Jewel

On 4/30/12, Allison Hilliker <AllisonH at benetech.org> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> You can also press insert, alt, s. This lets you set a number of font
> reading options.
>
> Allison
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Humberto Avila
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 2:57 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] JAWS reading font colour and style...
>
> Hello Juel
>
> I know how to do this. All you have to do is press insert+6, number 6 on
> the
> number row on your keyboard. Then search for "speech and Sounds Schemes."
> if
> you are using JAWS 12 and later, you will land on an edit box where you can
> just type the search query I specified above, but if you are using JAWS 11
> and earlier, once you invoke the command insert+6, you will get a standard
> app with a menu bar. In this case, you press alt+s to get to the set
> options
> menu, then look for the speech and sounds scheme. Once you are in the
> speech
> and sounds schemes, you need to down arrow, or spacebar (if you are using
> JAWS 12 or 13), till you hear "attributes and colors" or "attributes,
> colors
> and font info". Then press alt+A to apply your change and then press enter
> to confirm the settings.
>
> Hope this helps you!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Jewel
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 12:12 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] JAWS reading font colour and style...
>
> Oh, I remember that trick. It's the automatic announcement of change
> that I'm looking for. For example, if I write a little girl, and
> little is bolded, JAWS will say a bold little normal girl. Does that
> make sense? Or if an essay has a chunk in purple and a chunk in red
> (which is only the beginning of what I have), then I want JAWS to say
> blah blah red <this in red< normal <this in normal, boring black>. I
> know it can be done, I just have forgotten how to do it!
>
> On 4/30/12, Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Jewel,
>> Pressing Insert plus f should give you all the necessary formatting
>> information. Hope that helps!
>> Katie
>>
>>
>> On 4/30/12, Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dear all,
>>> This is just a quick question. II have just forgotten how to do this.
>>> If I want JAWS to read colour style (such as bold or italics) and
>>> colour, what hotkeys do I press? I need this for a final exam...I have
>>> it set up on my laptop but I'm using school computer for the exam, and
>>> I need to be able to recognize the difference betweeen purple and red
>>> and green and such, as well as italics and bold.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jewel
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.co
> m
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g
> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/allisonh%40benetech.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>


From dandrews at visi.com  Tue May  1 19:05:19 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 14:05:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Free iPhone marathon training day
Message-ID: <auto-000059322015@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>
>Feel free to share this.  I will send it to blindad and to trainer-talk and
>will announce it in Tidbits.  Feel free to put it on any other lists where
>you think it belongs.
>
>Thanks to the generosity of Jackie McBride of Brighter Vision Technologies,
>who  is letting me use a Talking Communities room at no cost, I am
>organizing a day of free iPhone training and information, Saturday, 5 May.
>Here is what I have in mind.  We'll see if it works, or if it is needed.  I
>hope lots of trainers, and trainees, will drop by!
>
>The day is divided into three sessions, two of which are of identical scope.
>
>
>Sessions A. and C. Hands-on Assistance for Beginners:
>
>Session A: 13:00-14:30  GMT (9:00-10:30  A.M. Eastern, 6:00-7:30  A.M.
>Pacific.)
>
>Session C: 19:30-21:00  GMT (3:30-5:00  P.M. Eastern, 12:30-2:00  P.M.
>Pacific.)
>
>Session B: Intermediate Assistance, General Questions of all sorts:
>16:00-18:30 GMT (12:00-2:30 P.M. Eastern, 9:00-11:30 A.M. Pacific.)
>
>More details:
>
>Sessions A and C: Many people have difficulty with basic iPhone use, making
>and receiving calls, navigating the home screen, and the like.  The idea is
>to try to get those users the help they need.  Depending on the number of
>attendees and the needs of each, we'll be able to help some in the room,
>while it is my hope that some expert users will be willing to be present and
>perhaps team up with frustrated users to offer some individual assistance
>elsewhere.  If it turns out that this sort of help isn't needed, we can
>answer any and all other questions as in Session b.
>
>Session B: this longer session is designed for a wider variety of discussion
>and assistance.  What is the best app to do so-and-so?  How do you
>accomplish this (slightly more advanced) task?  How does iPhone compare to
>this or that phone?  I certainly can't answer all, or even most, of these
>questions, so I hope that many iPhone aficionados and experts will be
>present to lend a hand.
>
>Structure: Ideally, people will be present at the beginning of the session
>they wish to attend.  At that time, I will ask each person to detail his or
>her expectations, questions and contributions.  From this, I will create an
>agenda and we will strive to cover it.  We may not quite succeed, but we'll
>try.  As others come in, I will try to get your concern added to the agenda
>and your contribution noted.  This is all an experiment.
>
>This endeavor will be useful, if it is needed, to the extent that people
>make the contributions they can make and are respectful of the process.
>
>How to take part: Come in to the room a few minutes before the session
>starts.  The room is at
>
>http://test.tcconference.com/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rs950a0abb900d
>
>Your username is your first and last name, no handles.  No password is
>needed.
>
>If you haven't used Talking Communities before, you'll have to download the
>free client, which the site will invite you to do.
>
>Consider jackie for your needs in web hosting, web development training,
>JAWS scripting and tech support.  You can write to her at
>
>abletec at gmail.com
>
>If you want to communicate with me regarding this training/discussion, feel
>free to write to dean at topdotenterprises.com
>
>See you all Saturday!
>
>Dean



From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Tue May  1 20:43:09 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 15:43:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
Message-ID: <4fa04af6.01a8640a.36a6.ffffb43c@mx.google.com>

I have a Romeo, and I'm not that impressed with it. It's 
extremely finnicky and not very user friendly. Who needs braille 
when we have digital?

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:28:24 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers

Bla, Bla, Bla!
The Braillenote has too many compartments, that I don't need.
I didn't have any problems with my Pac Mate.
I'm still interested in the Apex, though.
Since this thread is talking about Braille embossers, though, as 
I've
stated, there aren't any portable ones.
I'd like to get a Braille Embosser, for school, though.
I'm interested in getting the Juliet, although the Romeo is 
cheaper,
or so I'm told.
Blessings, Joshua

On 4/30/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
 Don't get a Pac Mate. They're far less user friendly than the
 braillenote.

  ----- Original Message -----
 From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 18:06:10 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers

 Get an IPad, and a focus 40 Braille display, and you'll be good
 to go.
 That, or a Pac Mate, or Braille Note.
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 4/30/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
  Hi all,
  I use a lot of electronic materials but would like to be able 
to
 print out
  notes for myself in a way that is easier and more portable for
 me. I use a
  slate and stylus sometimes, but as we all know that can take a
 lot of time.
  What type of braille embosser would you guys recommend? Or is
 there another
  rout I should take?
  Thanks
  _______________________________________________
  nabs-l mailing list
  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
 info for
  nabs-l:

 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
 0students.pccua.edu


 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info
 for nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
 r%40gmail.com

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
0students.pccua.edu


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
r%40gmail.com


From dandrews at visi.com  Tue May  1 21:31:45 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 16:31:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Embossers
In-Reply-To: <ABD646883503465F8F237E4AB3ACC15B@Gloria>
References: <4f9f3b18.0959650a.0e66.705e@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOvJEJOcLMELJe3DDuPf9qCnXN3sL73zMEcXVHc6jr9cMA@mail.gmail.com>
	<008c01cd27ab$6f0100c0$4d030240$@mchsi.com>
	<ABD646883503465F8F237E4AB3ACC15B@Gloria>
Message-ID: <auto-000058679049@mailfront4.g2host.com>

I think the least expensive embosser from Enabling Technologies is 
around $2000.  It would only print on one side of the page, but would 
work fine for printing notes.

Dave

At 11:34 AM 5/1/2012, you wrote:
>Hi,
>I did not mean that I wanted the emboser to be portable, I meant I 
>want to be able to take my notes with me. I know I could use the 
>braille note and other note taking devices, but I would like 
>somethig in which I can produce braille on paper for myself.
>----- Original Message ----- From: "Loren" <isaiah5719 at mchsi.com>
>To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 10:02 AM
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
>
>
>>While the romeo may  be cheaper, the Juliet will emboss on both sides of the
>>paper.  As for portability, that is a relative term.  The Juliet weighs
>>somewhere around forty-five to fifty pounds and the Romeo is a little less.
>>I'm not sure how much the Romeo 25 weighs.  If you can still find them, the
>>blazer weighs around ten pounds and has a handle to carry it by.  I
>>understand you can also get a case to carry it over your shoulder, but I
>>have never actually seen one.  The et is just a slimmed down version of the
>>Juliet and takes its name from the last two letters of the Juliet.  And none
>>of them are inexpensive.
>>
>>Loren Wakefield
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>>Of Joshua Lester
>>Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 8:28 PM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
>>
>>Bla, Bla, Bla!
>>The Braillenote has too many compartments, that I don't need.
>>I didn't have any problems with my Pac Mate.
>>I'm still interested in the Apex, though.
>>Since this thread is talking about Braille embossers, though, as I've
>>stated, there aren't any portable ones.
>>I'd like to get a Braille Embosser, for school, though.
>>I'm interested in getting the Juliet, although the Romeo is cheaper, or so
>>I'm told.
>>Blessings, Joshua
>>
>>On 4/30/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>Don't get a Pac Mate. They're far less user friendly than the
>>>braillenote.
>>>
>>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>>From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>><nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 18:06:10 -0500
>>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
>>>
>>>Get an IPad, and a focus 40 Braille display, and you'll be good to go.
>>>That, or a Pac Mate, or Braille Note.
>>>Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>>On 4/30/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>  Hi all,
>>>  I use a lot of electronic materials but would like to be able to
>>>print out  notes for myself in a way that is easier and more portable
>>>for me. I use a  slate and stylus sometimes, but as we all know that
>>>can take a lot of time.
>>>  What type of braille embosser would you guys recommend? Or is there
>>>another  rout I should take?
>>>  Thanks



From dandrews at visi.com  Tue May  1 21:42:49 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 01 May 2012 16:42:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Embossers
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOvOHNnMZY6ZbNrUtgyc48XuEhAmNmTLmoq80NJ_jp5j_A@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <82E921D8E50D4A58A18FA5E04B62379C@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOv5qpTNV==cnPC2OtDm0aA1oEzPkDLFD+YVKojskXVv8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<68504316D95D404EAC908579875CAB0D@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOvOHNnMZY6ZbNrUtgyc48XuEhAmNmTLmoq80NJ_jp5j_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000058680835@mailfront4.g2host.com>

You aren't even close, the Focus 40 Blue is around $2695, not 
$40.00.  There isn't much you can buy for forty bucks!

At 06:17 PM 4/30/2012, you wrote:
>I don't have a Braille display, or an IPad but I'm getting that stuff.
>I think the Braille display is around $40.00, but I might be mistaken.
>You'll type something on the keyboard, (I'd recommend that you get
>one, because the IPad has a touchscreen,) and what you type, pops up
>in refreshable Braille, like on a notetaker.
>Blessings, Joshua
>
>On 4/30/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
> > how much is te braille display you suggested? how does tis work do you have
> >
> > one?
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 6:06 PM
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
> >
> >
> >> Get an IPad, and a focus 40 Braille display, and you'll be good to go.
> >> That, or a Pac Mate, or Braille Note.
> >> Blessings, Joshua
> >>
> >> On 4/30/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Hi all,
> >>> I use a lot of electronic materials but would like to be able to print
> >>> out
> >>> notes for myself in a way that is easier and more portable for me. I use
> >>>
> >>> a
> >>> slate and stylus sometimes, but as we all know that can take a lot of
> >>> time.
> >>> What type of braille embosser would you guys recommend? Or is there
> >>> another
> >>> rout I should take?
> >>> Thanks



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed May  2 01:03:07 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 21:03:07 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Blindtlk] Free iPhone marathon training day
In-Reply-To: <auto-000059322015@mailfront3.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000059322015@mailfront3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <002401cd27ff$57226cb0$05674610$@gmail.com>



-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of David Andrews
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 3:05 PM
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Subject: [Blindtlk] Free iPhone marathon training day


>
>Feel free to share this.  I will send it to blindad and to trainer-talk 
>and will announce it in Tidbits.  Feel free to put it on any other 
>lists where you think it belongs.
>
>Thanks to the generosity of Jackie McBride of Brighter Vision 
>Technologies, who  is letting me use a Talking Communities room at no 
>cost, I am organizing a day of free iPhone training and information,
Saturday, 5 May.
>Here is what I have in mind.  We'll see if it works, or if it is 
>needed.  I hope lots of trainers, and trainees, will drop by!
>
>The day is divided into three sessions, two of which are of identical
scope.
>
>
>Sessions A. and C. Hands-on Assistance for Beginners:
>
>Session A: 13:00-14:30  GMT (9:00-10:30  A.M. Eastern, 6:00-7:30  A.M.
>Pacific.)
>
>Session C: 19:30-21:00  GMT (3:30-5:00  P.M. Eastern, 12:30-2:00  P.M.
>Pacific.)
>
>Session B: Intermediate Assistance, General Questions of all sorts:
>16:00-18:30 GMT (12:00-2:30 P.M. Eastern, 9:00-11:30 A.M. Pacific.)
>
>More details:
>
>Sessions A and C: Many people have difficulty with basic iPhone use, 
>making and receiving calls, navigating the home screen, and the like.  
>The idea is to try to get those users the help they need.  Depending on 
>the number of attendees and the needs of each, we'll be able to help 
>some in the room, while it is my hope that some expert users will be 
>willing to be present and perhaps team up with frustrated users to 
>offer some individual assistance elsewhere.  If it turns out that this 
>sort of help isn't needed, we can answer any and all other questions as in
Session b.
>
>Session B: this longer session is designed for a wider variety of 
>discussion and assistance.  What is the best app to do so-and-so?  How 
>do you accomplish this (slightly more advanced) task?  How does iPhone 
>compare to this or that phone?  I certainly can't answer all, or even 
>most, of these questions, so I hope that many iPhone aficionados and 
>experts will be present to lend a hand.
>
>Structure: Ideally, people will be present at the beginning of the 
>session they wish to attend.  At that time, I will ask each person to 
>detail his or her expectations, questions and contributions.  From 
>this, I will create an agenda and we will strive to cover it.  We may 
>not quite succeed, but we'll try.  As others come in, I will try to get 
>your concern added to the agenda and your contribution noted.  This is all
an experiment.
>
>This endeavor will be useful, if it is needed, to the extent that 
>people make the contributions they can make and are respectful of the
process.
>
>How to take part: Come in to the room a few minutes before the session 
>starts.  The room is at
>
>http://test.tcconference.com/masteradmin/room.asp?id=rs950a0abb900d
>
>Your username is your first and last name, no handles.  No password is 
>needed.
>
>If you haven't used Talking Communities before, you'll have to download 
>the free client, which the site will invite you to do.
>
>Consider jackie for your needs in web hosting, web development 
>training, JAWS scripting and tech support.  You can write to her at
>
>abletec at gmail.com
>
>If you want to communicate with me regarding this training/discussion, 
>feel free to write to dean at topdotenterprises.com
>
>See you all Saturday!
>
>Dean


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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed May  2 01:38:05 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 1 May 2012 21:38:05 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Barcode Reader Applications
In-Reply-To: <SNT111-DS18EF7C301EB1585988D5B6BF290@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT111-DS18EF7C301EB1585988D5B6BF290@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <003901cd2804$396457b0$ac2d0710$@gmail.com>

Ian,

I have heard good things about 2 apps in particular: OMobi and VizWiz. The
only big difference in the apps is with OMobi, the app searches pictures
from the Internet to tell you what you're taking a picture of, and you get
your answers from VizWiz from people.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ian Perrault
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 10:29 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students
Subject: [nabs-l] Barcode Reader Applications

Hi
Are there any accessible IPhone barcode reader applications? Ones that read
menus, cans, and other inaccessible things. I'll be getting my iphone
Wednesday and it would be great to get something that is close to the KNFB
reader.

Ian
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om



From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Wed May  2 11:52:25 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 06:52:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
Message-ID: <4fa12013.2a4cec0a.79b2.21f4@mx.google.com>

I can't give you the exact poundage of the Romeo, but it's a lot.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Loren" <isaiah5719 at mchsi.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 1 May 2012 10:02:31 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers

While the romeo may  be cheaper, the Juliet will emboss on both 
sides of the
paper.  As for portability, that is a relative term.  The Juliet 
weighs
somewhere around forty-five to fifty pounds and the Romeo is a 
little less.
I'm not sure how much the Romeo 25 weighs.  If you can still find 
them, the
blazer weighs around ten pounds and has a handle to carry it by.  
I
understand you can also get a case to carry it over your 
shoulder, but I
have never actually seen one.  The et is just a slimmed down 
version of the
Juliet and takes its name from the last two letters of the 
Juliet.  And none
of them are inexpensive.

Loren Wakefield



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 8:28 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers

Bla, Bla, Bla!
The Braillenote has too many compartments, that I don't need.
I didn't have any problems with my Pac Mate.
I'm still interested in the Apex, though.
Since this thread is talking about Braille embossers, though, as 
I've
stated, there aren't any portable ones.
I'd like to get a Braille Embosser, for school, though.
I'm interested in getting the Juliet, although the Romeo is 
cheaper, or so
I'm told.
Blessings, Joshua

On 4/30/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
 Don't get a Pac Mate. They're far less user friendly than the
 braillenote.

  ----- Original Message -----
 From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 18:06:10 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers

 Get an IPad, and a focus 40 Braille display, and you'll be good 
to go.
 That, or a Pac Mate, or Braille Note.
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 4/30/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
  Hi all,
  I use a lot of electronic materials but would like to be able 
to
 print out  notes for myself in a way that is easier and more 
portable
 for me. I use a  slate and stylus sometimes, but as we all know 
that
 can take a lot of time.
  What type of braille embosser would you guys recommend? Or is 
there
 another  rout I should take?
  Thanks
  _______________________________________________
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 0students.pccua.edu


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From n.shreyas.reddy at gmail.com  Wed May  2 12:56:19 2012
From: n.shreyas.reddy at gmail.com (shreyas nagaraj)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 18:26:19 +0530
Subject: [nabs-l] Hi! I am Shreyas, who newly joined the mailing list
Message-ID: <CALcH6o0NK5-wCMs31VEa-gkmjWT-BuZqSQDy5EtYa2z+UJ0MCw@mail.gmail.com>

Hope all are doing good & fine
I would like to introduce my self
I am Shreyas & the resident of the country: India. Hope u all might not


From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com  Wed May  2 13:35:43 2012
From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 06:35:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [nabs-l] Hi! I am Shreyas, who newly joined the mailing list
In-Reply-To: <CALcH6o0NK5-wCMs31VEa-gkmjWT-BuZqSQDy5EtYa2z+UJ0MCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1335965743.47739.YahooMailClassic@web162003.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Welcome to the list shreyas.
I am Anmol and I am also from India but have lived in the US for 22 years.
Feel free to email me off list.

Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
Hellen Keller


--- On Wed, 5/2/12, shreyas nagaraj <n.shreyas.reddy at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: shreyas nagaraj <n.shreyas.reddy at gmail.com>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Hi! I am Shreyas, who newly joined the mailing list
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Wednesday, May 2, 2012, 7:56 AM
> Hope all are doing good & fine
> I would like to introduce my self
> I am Shreyas & the resident of the country: India. Hope
> u all might not
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com
> 


From n.shreyas.reddy at gmail.com  Wed May  2 13:30:55 2012
From: n.shreyas.reddy at gmail.com (shreyas nagaraj)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 19:00:55 +0530
Subject: [nabs-l] Hi pals! sorry for incomplete mail. I am Shreyas & giving
	my intro
Message-ID: <CALcH6o3Ktz=yz4B8JdRcrSnk8BN2yrtqQTGTG5H6L_Eeox2RXQ@mail.gmail.com>

I am extremely sorry for the incomplete mail which I sent just few minits back
I did that by mistake .
Once again, I am sorry for that
So members, I would like to introduce my self
I am a boy who is 16 years & I am doing my 10th grade.
I am resident of India & I do have my brother who was studying in US as well.
I have some of my acquaintance staying in US like in Florida
I anticipate that u all might not discriminate that I am an Indian.
If so, please inform me
Well, I stay in Bangalore city & state Karnataka. I am telling this to
u all simply but I know that u all members might not know  cities ,
provinces & states in India.
I am sorry for that as well
So, for my 11th grade, I am getting admission in an institution which
is in my city but it is affiliated with the Cambridge university &
even the Harward university which r located in U K & masichuttes
respectively
To be more precise, I am taking the I B board that is the
international Syllabus which is widely accepted through out US & U K
And I have taken the Commerce Domain for my 11th grade as almost my
10th grade is over In fact, I am still waiting for the results
So, I like making friends.
I also love listening music, composing music, hanging around with
friends, surfing net, chatting  with my friends on f b,, playing
guitar & keyboard, learning cooking very little, swimming, cycling,
racing & reading e-books.
About my impairment. I have R P that is Retinatus Pigmentosa & some
problem with the optic nerve but I have taken my impairment in a
positive way & in fact I am an optimistic person.
I have good support from my parents & I stay with them.
That's it. I mean about me.
I also like connecting with u all as well and if any one is willing to
connect with me on skype. I would be more than happy. I have provided
my skype id at the end of this mail.

Once again I am telling u all
Please, I request u all that to connect with me & accept me as your
friend as well.
I anticipate that u all might not discriminate that I am from India
Cheers
Shreyas
skype i d:
shreyas.nagarajreddy


From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com  Wed May  2 16:06:59 2012
From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 12:06:59 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] an article everyone should read
Message-ID: <CAN+-G_BvJe89dk9iftqDPWUj_RNoKZFAiDv7mq54wcNGKfdTUA@mail.gmail.com>

This is happening locally, but I believe it could start happening
other places too:
http://www.philly.com/philly/insights/149770245.html

As students, we should take a more active role in ensuring that all
blind people are granted equal access to books which their sighted
peers can freely read and access. But what is the best way to go about
ensuring this access?
Patrick


From marsha.drenth at gmail.com  Wed May  2 18:26:37 2012
From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 14:26:37 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Hi pals! sorry for incomplete mail. I am Shreyas &
	givingmy intro
In-Reply-To: <CALcH6o3Ktz=yz4B8JdRcrSnk8BN2yrtqQTGTG5H6L_Eeox2RXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALcH6o3Ktz=yz4B8JdRcrSnk8BN2yrtqQTGTG5H6L_Eeox2RXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F3F77D442A854C358786660C48F8F310@Cptr233>

Shreyas, 

Welcome, of course your welcome here, if you're a blind student. I don't
think the list is just for those in the United States. Join right in, and
hope to get to know you better soon.

Marsha  


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of shreyas nagaraj
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 9:31 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Hi pals! sorry for incomplete mail. I am Shreyas &
givingmy intro

I am extremely sorry for the incomplete mail which I sent just few minits
back
I did that by mistake .
Once again, I am sorry for that
So members, I would like to introduce my self
I am a boy who is 16 years & I am doing my 10th grade.
I am resident of India & I do have my brother who was studying in US as
well.
I have some of my acquaintance staying in US like in Florida
I anticipate that u all might not discriminate that I am an Indian.
If so, please inform me
Well, I stay in Bangalore city & state Karnataka. I am telling this to
u all simply but I know that u all members might not know  cities ,
provinces & states in India.
I am sorry for that as well
So, for my 11th grade, I am getting admission in an institution which
is in my city but it is affiliated with the Cambridge university &
even the Harward university which r located in U K & masichuttes
respectively
To be more precise, I am taking the I B board that is the
international Syllabus which is widely accepted through out US & U K
And I have taken the Commerce Domain for my 11th grade as almost my
10th grade is over In fact, I am still waiting for the results
So, I like making friends.
I also love listening music, composing music, hanging around with
friends, surfing net, chatting  with my friends on f b,, playing
guitar & keyboard, learning cooking very little, swimming, cycling,
racing & reading e-books.
About my impairment. I have R P that is Retinatus Pigmentosa & some
problem with the optic nerve but I have taken my impairment in a
positive way & in fact I am an optimistic person.
I have good support from my parents & I stay with them.
That's it. I mean about me.
I also like connecting with u all as well and if any one is willing to
connect with me on skype. I would be more than happy. I have provided
my skype id at the end of this mail.

Once again I am telling u all
Please, I request u all that to connect with me & accept me as your
friend as well.
I anticipate that u all might not discriminate that I am from India
Cheers
Shreyas
skype i d:
shreyas.nagarajreddy

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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m



From jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com  Wed May  2 19:01:17 2012
From: jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 15:01:17 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Hi pals! sorry for incomplete mail. I am Shreyas &
	giving my intro
In-Reply-To: <CALcH6o3Ktz=yz4B8JdRcrSnk8BN2yrtqQTGTG5H6L_Eeox2RXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALcH6o3Ktz=yz4B8JdRcrSnk8BN2yrtqQTGTG5H6L_Eeox2RXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <726E5615-0B72-406D-9CAC-C6D6AF8C4D2A@gmail.com>

Welcome Shreyas.



On May 2, 2012, at 9:30 AM, shreyas nagaraj wrote:

> I am extremely sorry for the incomplete mail which I sent just few minits back
> I did that by mistake .
> Once again, I am sorry for that
> So members, I would like to introduce my self
> I am a boy who is 16 years & I am doing my 10th grade.
> I am resident of India & I do have my brother who was studying in US as well.
> I have some of my acquaintance staying in US like in Florida
> I anticipate that u all might not discriminate that I am an Indian.
> If so, please inform me
> Well, I stay in Bangalore city & state Karnataka. I am telling this to
> u all simply but I know that u all members might not know  cities ,
> provinces & states in India.
> I am sorry for that as well
> So, for my 11th grade, I am getting admission in an institution which
> is in my city but it is affiliated with the Cambridge university &
> even the Harward university which r located in U K & masichuttes
> respectively
> To be more precise, I am taking the I B board that is the
> international Syllabus which is widely accepted through out US & U K
> And I have taken the Commerce Domain for my 11th grade as almost my
> 10th grade is over In fact, I am still waiting for the results
> So, I like making friends.
> I also love listening music, composing music, hanging around with
> friends, surfing net, chatting  with my friends on f b,, playing
> guitar & keyboard, learning cooking very little, swimming, cycling,
> racing & reading e-books.
> About my impairment. I have R P that is Retinatus Pigmentosa & some
> problem with the optic nerve but I have taken my impairment in a
> positive way & in fact I am an optimistic person.
> I have good support from my parents & I stay with them.
> That's it. I mean about me.
> I also like connecting with u all as well and if any one is willing to
> connect with me on skype. I would be more than happy. I have provided
> my skype id at the end of this mail.
> 
> Once again I am telling u all
> Please, I request u all that to connect with me & accept me as your
> friend as well.
> I anticipate that u all might not discriminate that I am from India
> Cheers
> Shreyas
> skype i d:
> shreyas.nagarajreddy
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorge.paez1994%40gmail.com



From jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com  Wed May  2 19:56:22 2012
From: jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 15:56:22 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] an article everyone should read
In-Reply-To: <CAN+-G_BvJe89dk9iftqDPWUj_RNoKZFAiDv7mq54wcNGKfdTUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAN+-G_BvJe89dk9iftqDPWUj_RNoKZFAiDv7mq54wcNGKfdTUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5E3A5FE6-0890-4076-AAAD-DA1032E4D9A0@gmail.com>

Wow.
I understand the danger of this going national,
specially with the new digital players they're handing out.
I think the courts could help stop this,
but its not the only piece that would have to be in place.
I think the key piece is protests from local residents.
That combined with the court system could slow down, if not completely stop this.



On May 2, 2012, at 12:06 PM, Patrick Molloy wrote:

> This is happening locally, but I believe it could start happening
> other places too:
> http://www.philly.com/philly/insights/149770245.html
> 
> As students, we should take a more active role in ensuring that all
> blind people are granted equal access to books which their sighted
> peers can freely read and access. But what is the best way to go about
> ensuring this access?
> Patrick
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorge.paez1994%40gmail.com



From adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com  Wed May  2 20:01:47 2012
From: adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com (Andi)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 16:01:47 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Hi pals! sorry for incomplete mail. I am Shreyas &
	giving	my intro
In-Reply-To: <CALcH6o3Ktz=yz4B8JdRcrSnk8BN2yrtqQTGTG5H6L_Eeox2RXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALcH6o3Ktz=yz4B8JdRcrSnk8BN2yrtqQTGTG5H6L_Eeox2RXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4fa192b7.058c320a.41b9.ffffe2a9@mx.google.com>

Hello shreyas it's nice to meet you.  You don't have to worry about
discrimination, it would be very sad if any one had a problem with you for
such a stupid reason.  I think it's a wonderful thing when people from all
different cultures can get together and learn from one another.  I myself
love the Indian culture especially the music.  We have these contests hear
in the U.S. at the college level where traditional Indian dance and hip hop
are mixed together.  It is really amazing to see these competitions.  I also
love many of the philosophies of India.  Also the food is amazing  I have
several Indian cook books but haven't been brave enough to try any recipes
yet as I am afraid to mess it up and it is hard to find all of the
ingredience where I live.  Welcome to the list.

Andi 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of shreyas nagaraj
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 9:31 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Hi pals! sorry for incomplete mail. I am Shreyas & giving
my intro

I am extremely sorry for the incomplete mail which I sent just few minits
back I did that by mistake .
Once again, I am sorry for that
So members, I would like to introduce my self I am a boy who is 16 years & I
am doing my 10th grade.
I am resident of India & I do have my brother who was studying in US as
well.
I have some of my acquaintance staying in US like in Florida I anticipate
that u all might not discriminate that I am an Indian.
If so, please inform me
Well, I stay in Bangalore city & state Karnataka. I am telling this to u all
simply but I know that u all members might not know  cities , provinces &
states in India.
I am sorry for that as well
So, for my 11th grade, I am getting admission in an institution which is in
my city but it is affiliated with the Cambridge university & even the
Harward university which r located in U K & masichuttes respectively To be
more precise, I am taking the I B board that is the international Syllabus
which is widely accepted through out US & U K And I have taken the Commerce
Domain for my 11th grade as almost my 10th grade is over In fact, I am still
waiting for the results So, I like making friends.
I also love listening music, composing music, hanging around with friends,
surfing net, chatting  with my friends on f b,, playing guitar & keyboard,
learning cooking very little, swimming, cycling, racing & reading e-books.
About my impairment. I have R P that is Retinatus Pigmentosa & some problem
with the optic nerve but I have taken my impairment in a positive way & in
fact I am an optimistic person.
I have good support from my parents & I stay with them.
That's it. I mean about me.
I also like connecting with u all as well and if any one is willing to
connect with me on skype. I would be more than happy. I have provided my
skype id at the end of this mail.

Once again I am telling u all
Please, I request u all that to connect with me & accept me as your friend
as well.
I anticipate that u all might not discriminate that I am from India Cheers
Shreyas skype i d:
shreyas.nagarajreddy

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.com



From isaiah5719 at mchsi.com  Wed May  2 20:36:54 2012
From: isaiah5719 at mchsi.com (Loren)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 15:36:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
In-Reply-To: <4fa04af6.01a8640a.36a6.ffffb43c@mx.google.com>
References: <4fa04af6.01a8640a.36a6.ffffb43c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <012901cd28a3$50147270$f03d5750$@mchsi.com>

Like all who are blind! 

Loren Wakefield 



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Sophie Trist
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 3:43 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers

I have a Romeo, and I'm not that impressed with it. It's extremely finnicky
and not very user friendly. Who needs braille when we have digital?

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 20:28:24 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers

Bla, Bla, Bla!
The Braillenote has too many compartments, that I don't need.
I didn't have any problems with my Pac Mate.
I'm still interested in the Apex, though.
Since this thread is talking about Braille embossers, though, as I've
stated, there aren't any portable ones.
I'd like to get a Braille Embosser, for school, though.
I'm interested in getting the Juliet, although the Romeo is cheaper, or so
I'm told.
Blessings, Joshua

On 4/30/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
 Don't get a Pac Mate. They're far less user friendly than the  braillenote.

  ----- Original Message -----
 From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 18:06:10 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers

 Get an IPad, and a focus 40 Braille display, and you'll be good  to go.
 That, or a Pac Mate, or Braille Note.
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 4/30/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
  Hi all,
  I use a lot of electronic materials but would like to be able to  print
out
  notes for myself in a way that is easier and more portable for  me. I use
a
  slate and stylus sometimes, but as we all know that can take a  lot of
time.
  What type of braille embosser would you guys recommend? Or is  there
another
  rout I should take?
  Thanks
  _______________________________________________
  nabs-l mailing list
  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account  info for
  nabs-l:

 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
 0students.pccua.edu


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 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info  for
nabs-l:
 
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 r%40gmail.com

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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
 nabs-l:
 
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Wed May  2 22:44:31 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Wed, 02 May 2012 17:44:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Hi! I am Shreyas, who newly joined the mailing list
Message-ID: <4fa1b8e9.8692ec0a.1b33.ffff81ef@mx.google.com>

Hey, Shreyas. My name is Sophie and I just joined the list about 
a week ago. It feels nice to not be the only newbie on here. :) 
Welcome to the list, and I hope you enjoy it.
Sophie

 ----- Original Message -----
From: shreyas nagaraj <n.shreyas.reddy at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 2 May 2012 18:26:19 +0530
Subject: [nabs-l] Hi! I am Shreyas, who newly joined the mailing 
list

Hope all are doing good & fine
I would like to introduce my self
I am Shreyas & the resident of the country: India. Hope u all 
might not

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for nabs-l:
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From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Wed May  2 22:58:23 2012
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 18:58:23 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Hi! I am Shreyas, who newly joined the mailing list
In-Reply-To: <4fa1b8e9.8692ec0a.1b33.ffff81ef@mx.google.com>
References: <4fa1b8e9.8692ec0a.1b33.ffff81ef@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJOM=2OtiJQ+T7Y5fRG5muKAVzonYSvULv2U+-97_Gp+g4WJw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello! Welcome to the list! I'm Josh, in Maryland, in the Us. We're a
helpful bunch, so don't be afraid to ask questions! :)

On 5/2/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey, Shreyas. My name is Sophie and I just joined the list about
> a week ago. It feels nice to not be the only newbie on here. :)
> Welcome to the list, and I hope you enjoy it.
> Sophie
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: shreyas nagaraj <n.shreyas.reddy at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 2 May 2012 18:26:19 +0530
> Subject: [nabs-l] Hi! I am Shreyas, who newly joined the mailing
> list
>
> Hope all are doing good & fine
> I would like to introduce my self
> I am Shreyas & the resident of the country: India. Hope u all
> might not
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Sent via gmail.com
Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
Skype: joshgregory93
 twitter: JoshG93


From zach2012 at chickerland.com  Thu May  3 12:38:21 2012
From: zach2012 at chickerland.com (Zach)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 06:38:21 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] anyone going to CCB in Denver this summer?
Message-ID: <7937FBB9714B46F491813E18CECF6FCA@ZachlaptopPC>

Hi,
   Just wondering who all is going to Colorado Center for the Blind in Denver, CO this summer? I am planning on attending and was just wondering who else from the nabs and nmabs would be there! I love making new friends, that is mostly why I would like to know.
Zach Griego-Dreicer
Email: zach2012 at chickerland.com
Skype and Twitter: Chickerland
Facebook profile: http://www.facebook.com/chickerland or find me using this email address.
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From kobycox at gmail.com  Thu May  3 13:20:16 2012
From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 07:20:16 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] anyone going to CCB in Denver this summer?
In-Reply-To: <7937FBB9714B46F491813E18CECF6FCA@ZachlaptopPC>
References: <7937FBB9714B46F491813E18CECF6FCA@ZachlaptopPC>
Message-ID: <5334B8C6-4AEF-4577-8E31-D8615BE8F6F4@gmail.com>

I will be there then I'm currently In there ITP program. Does that help?
Koby
Sent from my iPhone

On May 3, 2012, at 6:38 AM, "Zach" <zach2012 at chickerland.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>   Just wondering who all is going to Colorado Center for the Blind in Denver, CO this summer? I am planning on attending and was just wondering who else from the nabs and nmabs would be there! I love making new friends, that is mostly why I would like to know.
> Zach Griego-Dreicer
> Email: zach2012 at chickerland.com
> Skype and Twitter: Chickerland
> Facebook profile: http://www.facebook.com/chickerland or find me using this email address.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com


From zach2012 at chickerland.com  Thu May  3 14:52:09 2012
From: zach2012 at chickerland.com (Zach)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 08:52:09 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] anyone going to CCB in Denver this summer?
Message-ID: <mailman.50.1772982267.2863824.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

yes! What's ITP? And I remember you! We
used to talk a lot on the phone IDK if you'd remember? It would 
say Espanola NM but I'm not writing my phone number.:)
Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Koby <kobycox at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 3 May 2012 07:20:16 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] anyone going to CCB in Denver this summer?

I will be there then I'm currently In there ITP program.  Does 
that help?
Koby
Sent from my iPhone

On May 3, 2012, at 6:38 AM, "Zach" <zach2012 at chickerland.com> 
wrote:

 Hi,
   Just wondering who all is going to Colorado Center for the 
Blind in Denver, CO this summer? I am planning on attending and 
was just wondering who else from the nabs and nmabs would be 
there! I love making new friends, that is mostly why I would like 
to know.
 Zach Griego-Dreicer
 Email: zach2012 at chickerland.com
 Skype and Twitter: Chickerland
 Facebook profile: http://www.facebook.com/chickerland or find me 
using this email address.
 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma
il.com

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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ickerland.com


From kobycox at gmail.com  Thu May  3 15:19:14 2012
From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 09:19:14 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] anyone going to CCB in Denver this summer?
Message-ID: <4fa2a1a7.2470b60a.1e64.007e@mx.google.com>

It satands for the independents training program. It's a awesome program I would incourage you to apply for It when you turn 18.
Koby.

-----Original Message-----
From: Zach <zach2012 at chickerland.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 8:52 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] anyone going to CCB in Denver this summer?

yes! What's ITP? And I remember you! We
used to talk a lot on the phone IDK if you'd remember? It would 
say Espanola NM but I'm not writing my phone number.:)
Sent from my BRAILLENOTE Apex

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Koby <kobycox at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 3 May 2012 07:20:16 -0600
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] anyone going to CCB in Denver this summer?

I will be there then I'm currently In there ITP program.  Does 
that help?
Koby
Sent from my iPhone

On May 3, 2012, at 6:38 AM, "Zach" <zach2012 at chickerland.com> 
wrote:

 Hi,
   Just wondering who all is going to Colorado Center for the 
Blind in Denver, CO this summer? I am planning on attending and 
was just wondering who else from the nabs and nmabs would be 
there! I love making new friends, that is mostly why I would like 
to know.
 Zach Griego-Dreicer
 Email: zach2012 at chickerland.com
 Skype and Twitter: Chickerland
 Facebook profile: http://www.facebook.com/chickerland or find me 
using this email address.
 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gma
il.com

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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ickerland.com

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From iperrault at hotmail.com  Thu May  3 16:55:23 2012
From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 12:55:23 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible GPS that is just a talking map
Message-ID: <SNT111-DS13FDC17F53D27024086AB5BF2F0@phx.gbl>

Hi
I remember reading something about an accessible iphone GPS, where if you touch the screen it will tell you exactly where you are on a map. If you move up the screen, it will tell you what’s in front of you, and if you move down the screen, it will tell you what’s behind you. Any ideas what the name is? I know it’s ariane or something and I’m trying to find it to download it.
Thanks
Ian

From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Thu May  3 17:07:48 2012
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 13:07:48 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible GPS that is just a talking map
In-Reply-To: <SNT111-DS13FDC17F53D27024086AB5BF2F0@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT111-DS13FDC17F53D27024086AB5BF2F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAMJOM=3gGujcpQSx6=dtmZnfm3xveQDX+7ATDyet9aKkwyoQvA@mail.gmail.com>

Ariadne gps? Spelling is wrong but it's something like that.

On 5/3/12, Ian Perrault <iperrault at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
> I remember reading something about an accessible iphone GPS, where if you
> touch the screen it will tell you exactly where you are on a map. If you
> move up the screen, it will tell you what’s in front of you, and if you move
> down the screen, it will tell you what’s behind you. Any ideas what the name
> is? I know it’s ariane or something and I’m trying to find it to download
> it.
> Thanks
> Ian
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Sent via gmail.com
Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
Skype: joshgregory93
 twitter: JoshG93


From hope.paulos at gmail.com  Thu May  3 18:25:05 2012
From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 14:25:05 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible GPS that is just a talking map
In-Reply-To: <SNT111-DS13FDC17F53D27024086AB5BF2F0@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT111-DS13FDC17F53D27024086AB5BF2F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <008a01cd295a$10d74030$3285c090$@gmail.com>

Hello Ian. The name of the GPS program is: Ariadne gps. I believe that's the
spelling.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ian Perrault
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 12:55 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible GPS that is just a talking map

Hi
I remember reading something about an accessible iphone GPS, where if you
touch the screen it will tell you exactly where you are on a map. If you
move up the screen, it will tell you what's in front of you, and if you move
down the screen, it will tell you what's behind you. Any ideas what the name
is? I know it's ariane or something and I'm trying to find it to download
it.
Thanks
Ian
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com



From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Thu May  3 21:00:52 2012
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 17:00:52 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Job Posting
Message-ID: <CAF2O2CyEx7ksWq_tFcbbJfFUxFiBUkt2OViT5tOE2R5LW1o-Ew@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

This great organization up in Minnesota is seeking an employment case
manager. Please see the attached documentfor more info. I would highly
recommend this organization for anyone applying as I was an intern
teaching adaptive technology for them during this past year.

Thanks.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Mary Junnila <mjunnila at lighthousefortheblind-duluth.org>
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 15:48:27 -0500
Subject: Where to post jobs
To: Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>

Hi, Nimer:



As someone who has just been looking for a job, I thought you might be able
to recommend places I should be posting a job for what I'm calling our "case
manager" position - basically Sandra's position, but different.  I attach
the job description for your curiousity.  But I want to make sure it is seen
by people who are blind or have vision loss, and I'm not sure Sandra knows
of the best sites.  .



Thanks.



Mary Junnila

Executive Director

Lighthouse Center for Vision Loss

(also known as Duluth Lighthouse for the Blind)

4505 West Superior Street

Duluth, Minnesota 55807

(218) 624-4828 phone

(800) 422-0833 phone

(218) 624-8822 TTY

(218) 624-4479 fax

mjunnila at lighthousefortheblind-duluth.org






-- 
Cordially,

Nimer Jaber

Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains
some information about the email you have just read and all
attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and
methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk.

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
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up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
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You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
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To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
you, and have a great day!
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Thu May  3 22:05:43 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 17:05:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible GPS that is just a talking map
Message-ID: <4fa30153.060c650a.5774.fffffdd8@mx.google.com>

Has=20anyone=20used=20the=20Navigon=20app?=20I've=20downloaded=20it=20but=20=
can't=20get=20
it=20to=20work.=20Is=20it=20any=20good?=20Because=20if=20not,=20I=20might=20=
consider=20
replacing=20it=20with=20the=20other=20accessible=20GPS=20app.

=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20josh=20gregory=20<joshkart12 at gmail.com
To:=20National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list=20
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date=20sent:=20Thu,=203=20May=202012=2013:07:48=20-0400
Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Accessible=20GPS=20that=20is=20just=20a=20talki=
ng=20map

Ariadne=20gps?=20Spelling=20is=20wrong=20but=20it's=20something=20like=20th=
at.

On=205/3/12,=20Ian=20Perrault=20<iperrault at hotmail.com>=20wrote:
=20Hi
=20I=20remember=20reading=20something=20about=20an=20accessible=20iphone=20=
GPS,=20
where=20if=20you
=20touch=20the=20screen=20it=20will=20tell=20you=20exactly=20where=20you=20=
are=20on=20a=20
map.=20If=20you
=20move=20up=20the=20screen,=20it=20will=20tell=20you=20what=92s=20in=20fro=
nt=20of=20you,=20and=20
if=20you=20move
=20down=20the=20screen,=20it=20will=20tell=20you=20what=92s=20behind=20you.=
=20Any=20ideas=20
what=20the=20name
=20is?=20I=20know=20it=92s=20ariane=20or=20something=20and=20I=92m=20trying=
=20to=20find=20it=20to=20
download
=20it.
=20Thanks
=20Ian
=20_______________________________________________
=20nabs-l=20mailing=20list
=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
=20http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
=20To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20a=
ccount=20
info=20for
=20nabs-l:
=20
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
gmail.com



--
Sent=20via=20gmail.com
Email:=20joshkart12 at gmail.com
Skype:=20joshgregory93
=20twitter:=20JoshG93

_______________________________________________
nabs-l=20mailing=20list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco=
unt=20info=20
for=20nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
r%40gmail.com



From ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com  Thu May  3 22:25:55 2012
From: ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com (Ben J Bloomgren)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 15:25:55 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible GPS that is just a talking map
In-Reply-To: <4fa30153.060c650a.5774.fffffdd8@mx.google.com>
References: <4fa30153.060c650a.5774.fffffdd8@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <9C66A8E2-CF29-4509-AD6E-4F92FA5A0D43@gmail.com>

Sophie,

One of my best friends, Chris Gilland, uses Navegon almost daily. Apparently the blind community had to do some armwrestling, but it works like a charm now. It became inaccessible, then it became accessible again. He uses it with his iPhone 4S, and it works wonderfully despite the crazy nature of the roads in the Charlotte, North Carolina area.

Ben
On May 3, 2012, at 3:05 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:

> Has anyone used the Navigon app? I've downloaded it but can't get it to work. Is it any good? Because if not, I might consider replacing it with the other accessible GPS app.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 3 May 2012 13:07:48 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Accessible GPS that is just a talking map
> 
> Ariadne gps? Spelling is wrong but it's something like that.
> 
> On 5/3/12, Ian Perrault <iperrault at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi
> I remember reading something about an accessible iphone GPS, where if you
> touch the screen it will tell you exactly where you are on a map. If you
> move up the screen, it will tell you what‚s in front of you, and if you move
> down the screen, it will tell you what‚s behind you. Any ideas what the name
> is? I know it‚s ariane or something and I‚m trying to find it to download
> it.
> Thanks
> Ian
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40
> gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Sent via gmail.com
> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
> Skype: joshgregory93
> twitter: JoshG93
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ben.j.bloomgren%40gmail.com



From iperrault at hotmail.com  Thu May  3 22:43:40 2012
From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 18:43:40 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone Maps Application
Message-ID: <SNT111-DS89FDD3A4C82F90A257BCBBF2F0@phx.gbl>

Hi
I’m trying to get driving directions to a certain place, and VoiceOver says first of two suggested routes. I can view the directions for the first route with VoiceOver, but can’t get to the other route to view those directions. Is this at all accessible?

From coasterfreak88 at mac.com  Thu May  3 23:30:48 2012
From: coasterfreak88 at mac.com (John Moore)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2012 18:30:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible GPS that is just a talking map
In-Reply-To: <4fa30153.060c650a.5774.fffffdd8@mx.google.com>
References: <4fa30153.060c650a.5774.fffffdd8@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <D8D556D4-2B99-4894-B3F3-8D14F63F1539@mac.com>

I recommend MotionX GPS Drive or GPS Plus by Telenav. THere is an app called Ariadne GPS that is just a talking map.


From jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com  Thu May  3 23:32:18 2012
From: jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 19:32:18 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone Maps Application
In-Reply-To: <SNT111-DS89FDD3A4C82F90A257BCBBF2F0@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT111-DS89FDD3A4C82F90A257BCBBF2F0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0DA264C2-BE9A-4C52-83A7-9D4168E27611@gmail.com>

Not if you're using the built-in maps app I don't think.


On May 3, 2012, at 6:43 PM, Ian Perrault wrote:

> Hi
> I’m trying to get driving directions to a certain place, and VoiceOver says first of two suggested routes. I can view the directions for the first route with VoiceOver, but can’t get to the other route to view those directions. Is this at all accessible?
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorge.paez1994%40gmail.com



From iperrault at hotmail.com  Thu May  3 23:51:05 2012
From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 19:51:05 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] IPhone Maps Application
In-Reply-To: <0DA264C2-BE9A-4C52-83A7-9D4168E27611@gmail.com>
References: <SNT111-DS89FDD3A4C82F90A257BCBBF2F0@phx.gbl>
	<0DA264C2-BE9A-4C52-83A7-9D4168E27611@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT111-DS131F27C90E8D5F79C5EAA7BF2F0@phx.gbl>


        I have IOS 5. That's weird that viewing alternate routes isn't 
accessible! 



From coasterfreak88 at mac.com  Fri May  4 16:07:43 2012
From: coasterfreak88 at mac.com (John Moore)
Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 11:07:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] New talk show debuting tonight.
Message-ID: <86CC3E51-A5BA-47F0-B809-69D42D15ADD7@mac.com>

Hello everyone. At 7pm Eastern, 4pm Pacific, there will be the first broadcast of a new talk show called Blind Perspective. I am co-hosting it with another friend of mine who is also blind. Each month, one of us will pick a topic and have a small group of blind people discuss it with us for an hour and a half. Each show will also include a brief round-up of tech news from the previous month. Tonight, Dan Eickmeier is our featured guest and we will have a tech chat. If you would like to be on the show in the future, or if you have a topic idea, please drop me an email off-list and we will consider talking about it or putting you on the show. I have written to some of you on Facebook about this and several have said that they would like to be on the show. Future topics will include playing video games, the challenges facing blind students, and more ideas that are yet to be decided. Tune in at www.mintfm.net. Hope to hear from all of you. Again, if you would like to appear, please email me off-list and let me know.

From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com  Sat May  5 21:00:05 2012
From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen)
Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 17:00:05 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Spring Slate
Message-ID: <CAPnwOUMq6CGX7Mp-cHk8qMvzvespNf19UCYqK2-PqLx8FNnSEw@mail.gmail.com>

Good afternoon,

Please find attached to this message the latest edition of the
quarterly publication of the National Association of Blind Students,
the Student Slate.

Thank you,

Sean Whalen
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From nfbcsblog at gmail.com  Sat May  5 22:38:36 2012
From: nfbcsblog at gmail.com (Community Service Blog)
Date: Sat, 5 May 2012 17:38:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Looking for community service stories for May
Message-ID: <CAOMtRmcAstqzVE1KLfveBPzXmYihLdzEGHJx5QuUGjfe=a+irA@mail.gmail.com>

Please pass the following announcement on to anyone you think would be
interested.

May is Mental Health Month*. This month, the Community Service Group
wants to promote community involvement, social connectedness, and
mental wellness on its blog at nfbcommunityservice.wordpress.com. Once
again, the themes are fairly open, so hopefully there is something for
everyone. You are welcome to write on one or both.

1. Tell us about a project you participated in that really got you out
and about, involved with your community, and meeting people.

2. Tell us about and/or share a personal story of what you think are
some of the benefits of community service for those who serve.

You can start sending in your stories immediately. Stories should be
no more than 500 words. Stories should be submitted by May 25 to
ensure inclusion in the blog during the month of May, but this is a
month-long event. In keeping with the theme, we want to feature
stories throughout the month, so feel free to send them in any time
between now and the 25th. Send stories as an attachment or in the body
of a message to nfbcsblog at gmail.com. Be sure to include your name,
state, and a title with each submission. I look forward to reading
about your experiences.

*More information on Mental Health Month can be found at
http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/go/may.

Chris Parsons
Blog Coordinator, Community Service Group


From coasterfreak88 at mac.com  Sun May  6 15:28:28 2012
From: coasterfreak88 at mac.com (John Moore)
Date: Sun, 06 May 2012 10:28:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] This month's show now available for download.
Message-ID: <7C41FB17-2834-4059-84BA-84DAD5B12C91@mac.com>

Hello all. This monoth's edition of Blind Perspective is now available for download. I'd like to say up front that the opinions expressed are those of the individuals and do not reflect the opinions of other staff members. For anyone that is interested in being a guest on the show, this is what the format will sound like. In August, we are seeking to do a post-convention show, and we'd love to have representatives of each organization on. We already have one volunteer; is anyone else interested? Anyway, go here to grab the show. http://mintfm.net/archives/index.php?show=Blind%20Perspective


From portillo.jim at gmail.com  Sun May  6 22:28:25 2012
From: portillo.jim at gmail.com (Jim Portillo)
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 15:28:25 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Any Hulu users?
Message-ID: <4fa6fb10.c5e9440a.6e70.5c1f@mx.google.com>

Howdy!

 

I was just wondering if there were any folks who have used or currently use
a service called Hulu.  I'm being asked about it, and I'd like to know
things like its accessibility and friendliness with screen readers and
whether or not one can use other things like IPhones to watch programs.

Also, when I signed up, it right away told me that other facebook friends
use and watch things on it, and I don't want that.  I don't want to watch
something and for everyone in my facebook circle to be told.  Are Hulu and
Facebook connected somehow, and if so, can I turn that feature off?  

 

Thanks.

Jim


From anthony at olivero.us  Sun May  6 22:33:55 2012
From: anthony at olivero.us (Tony Olivero)
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 17:33:55 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Any Hulu users?
In-Reply-To: <4fa6fb10.c5e9440a.6e70.5c1f@mx.google.com>
References: <4fa6fb10.c5e9440a.6e70.5c1f@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CALQ-rrO_Xa6iYbmtwefY6qHZiwGJM5ayuRur2LsideAeYQR0oQ@mail.gmail.com>

Jim,

The greatest accessibility to Hulu comes from using HuluPlus on the
iPhone (this does require a monthly subscription, but does not provide
access to every program available on the website). Other than that, it
is possible, through turning off the Virtual Cursor in JAWS and
tabbing to focus on the flash movie, to pause an actively playing
show. However, you cannot rewind or fast forward the show.

I'm not sure about the social features, but you should be able to turn
them off or unlink your Facebook account.

In short, using Hulu is not a very accessible experience, but if you
are  committed to doing so, it is possible.

Hth,
Tony

On 5/6/12, Jim Portillo <portillo.jim at gmail.com> wrote:
> Howdy!
>
>
>
> I was just wondering if there were any folks who have used or currently use
> a service called Hulu.  I'm being asked about it, and I'd like to know
> things like its accessibility and friendliness with screen readers and
> whether or not one can use other things like IPhones to watch programs.
>
> Also, when I signed up, it right away told me that other facebook friends
> use and watch things on it, and I don't want that.  I don't want to watch
> something and for everyone in my facebook circle to be told.  Are Hulu and
> Facebook connected somehow, and if so, can I turn that feature off?
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us
>


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun May  6 22:35:20 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 16:35:20 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Any Hulu users?
In-Reply-To: <4fa6fb10.c5e9440a.6e70.5c1f@mx.google.com>
References: <4fa6fb10.c5e9440a.6e70.5c1f@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJA7V1PUoj55YFzaTFGpCFcS81xq+0wydq5N3uS4RSL+yw@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know about the Facebook thing, but I've used Hulu with JAWS on
my PC and it works great. The only difficulty is that the videos have
Flash controls so I haven't figured out how to fast-forward, pause
etc. which can be a problem if the Internet connection gets slow (you
can't pause the video to let it catch up). For watching a show
straight through, though, it works fine.
Arielle

On 5/6/12, Jim Portillo <portillo.jim at gmail.com> wrote:
> Howdy!
>
>
>
> I was just wondering if there were any folks who have used or currently use
> a service called Hulu.  I'm being asked about it, and I'd like to know
> things like its accessibility and friendliness with screen readers and
> whether or not one can use other things like IPhones to watch programs.
>
> Also, when I signed up, it right away told me that other facebook friends
> use and watch things on it, and I don't want that.  I don't want to watch
> something and for everyone in my facebook circle to be told.  Are Hulu and
> Facebook connected somehow, and if so, can I turn that feature off?
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From isaiah5719 at mchsi.com  Sun May  6 22:38:09 2012
From: isaiah5719 at mchsi.com (Loren)
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 17:38:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
In-Reply-To: <ABD646883503465F8F237E4AB3ACC15B@Gloria>
References: <4f9f3b18.0959650a.0e66.705e@mx.google.com><CAO83KOvJEJOcLMELJe3DDuPf9qCnXN3sL73zMEcXVHc6jr9cMA@mail.gmail.com>	<008c01cd27ab$6f0100c0$4d030240$@mchsi.com>
	<ABD646883503465F8F237E4AB3ACC15B@Gloria>
Message-ID: <001901cd2bd8$e9b2c570$bd185050$@mchsi.com>

Then I would go with the romeo 25 or 40.  Or if you wanted two-sided
braille, the et or Juliet are very nice.  They all produce high quality
braille.  They do have embossers that produce at more than 40 cps, but you
will pay significantly more for them.  The bookmaker will produce around 80
cps and the express will go between 100 and 150 cps.  But you are also
talking between 8 and fifteen thousand dollars.  I have to admit that my
fantasy involves walking up to the Enabling table at a convention and
handing them the cash for one of the express 150.  But then, we all have to
have dreams, right?  

I hope this helps.  

Btw, sometimes you can find them on ebay for much less.  But then, you have
no garauntee about the condition of the product.  Also, sometimes at the end
of the year, some distributors will sell  a used one for a lot less as well.
But I have always found the people at enabling to be good to work with.  

Loren 



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Gloria G
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 11:35 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers

Hi,
I did not mean that I wanted the emboser to be portable, I meant I want to
be able to take my notes with me. I know I could use the braille note and
other note taking devices, but I would like somethig in which I can produce
braille on paper for myself.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Loren" <isaiah5719 at mchsi.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 10:02 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers


> While the romeo may  be cheaper, the Juliet will emboss on both sides 
> of the paper.  As for portability, that is a relative term.  The 
> Juliet weighs somewhere around forty-five to fifty pounds and the 
> Romeo is a little less.
> I'm not sure how much the Romeo 25 weighs.  If you can still find 
> them, the blazer weighs around ten pounds and has a handle to carry it 
> by.  I understand you can also get a case to carry it over your 
> shoulder, but I have never actually seen one.  The et is just a 
> slimmed down version of the Juliet and takes its name from the last 
> two letters of the Juliet.  And none of them are inexpensive.
>
> Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Joshua Lester
> Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 8:28 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
>
> Bla, Bla, Bla!
> The Braillenote has too many compartments, that I don't need.
> I didn't have any problems with my Pac Mate.
> I'm still interested in the Apex, though.
> Since this thread is talking about Braille embossers, though, as I've 
> stated, there aren't any portable ones.
> I'd like to get a Braille Embosser, for school, though.
> I'm interested in getting the Juliet, although the Romeo is cheaper, 
> or so I'm told.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 4/30/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Don't get a Pac Mate. They're far less user friendly than the 
>> braillenote.
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org Date sent: Mon, 30 Apr 2012 18:06:10 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
>>
>> Get an IPad, and a focus 40 Braille display, and you'll be good to go.
>> That, or a Pac Mate, or Braille Note.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 4/30/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  Hi all,
>>  I use a lot of electronic materials but would like to be able to 
>> print out  notes for myself in a way that is easier and more portable 
>> for me. I use a  slate and stylus sometimes, but as we all know that 
>> can take a lot of time.
>>  What type of braille embosser would you guys recommend? Or is there 
>> another  rout I should take?
>>  Thanks
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>> for
>>  nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
>> 0students.pccua.edu
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stu
>> d
>> ents.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Mon May  7 00:32:44 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 19:32:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fire Walls
Message-ID: <CA54A68B9B45400F8A979445057E0210@Gloria>

Hi Does anyone know of a good free fire wall I can use for my computer? I was using AVG and now it is time for me to get a new licions. Thanks

From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon May  7 00:38:09 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 6 May 2012 20:38:09 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fire Walls
In-Reply-To: <CA54A68B9B45400F8A979445057E0210@Gloria>
References: <CA54A68B9B45400F8A979445057E0210@Gloria>
Message-ID: <001801cd2be9$ae2b2590$0a8170b0$@gmail.com>

I use the free version of AVG. There is a payed version, but there's also a
free one, which is also good.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Gloria G
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 8:33 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Fire Walls

Hi Does anyone know of a good free fire wall I can use for my computer? I
was using AVG and now it is time for me to get a new licions. Thanks
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
om



From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Mon May  7 13:07:21 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 08:07:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fire Walls
References: <CA54A68B9B45400F8A979445057E0210@Gloria>
	<001801cd2be9$ae2b2590$0a8170b0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8F3A1CA902E04FECB62D024E436C978A@Gloria>

Hi,
Where can I find this free version of AVG to download it? Thanks for your 
help.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fire Walls


>I use the free version of AVG. There is a payed version, but there's also a
> free one, which is also good.
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Gloria G
> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 8:33 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Fire Walls
>
> Hi Does anyone know of a good free fire wall I can use for my computer? I
> was using AVG and now it is time for me to get a new licions. Thanks
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com 



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon May  7 13:33:59 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 08:33:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fire Walls
In-Reply-To: <8F3A1CA902E04FECB62D024E436C978A@Gloria>
References: <CA54A68B9B45400F8A979445057E0210@Gloria>
	<001801cd2be9$ae2b2590$0a8170b0$@gmail.com>
	<8F3A1CA902E04FECB62D024E436C978A@Gloria>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOthODe=HDrqCC+oY=ByrKGDi=bcZ0SN6BYoGhMs++Pb6w@mail.gmail.com>

Good grief!
I've updated AVG, and Makafy, but my computer still gets viruses!
There's got to be something better!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/7/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> Where can I find this free version of AVG to download it? Thanks for your
> help.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 7:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fire Walls
>
>
>>I use the free version of AVG. There is a payed version, but there's also
>> a
>> free one, which is also good.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Gloria G
>> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 8:33 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fire Walls
>>
>> Hi Does anyone know of a good free fire wall I can use for my computer? I
>> was using AVG and now it is time for me to get a new licions. Thanks
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From cassonw at gmail.com  Mon May  7 14:14:24 2012
From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 08:14:24 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Fire Walls
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOthODe=HDrqCC+oY=ByrKGDi=bcZ0SN6BYoGhMs++Pb6w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA54A68B9B45400F8A979445057E0210@Gloria>
	<001801cd2be9$ae2b2590$0a8170b0$@gmail.com>
	<8F3A1CA902E04FECB62D024E436C978A@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOthODe=HDrqCC+oY=ByrKGDi=bcZ0SN6BYoGhMs++Pb6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEWJ-9=OLRoq4jKbQrHo9UwEOPJukcOLsuPyj20HO61=YsNVpQ@mail.gmail.com>

AVG does have a free version that is for virus protection. It is
called AVG Free and I believe it can be downloaded from their website.
I would recommend using windows firewall for the firewall. As to
Joshua, you should never run more than one virus protection program on
a computer at a time. They have a great tendency to conflict with each
other and render both useless. I use Microsoft security essentials on
my system for virus protection. It is availible from
download.microsoft.com. Though anti-virus programs can help, the best
thing you can do to prevent viruses is behavior. Never click on links
or attachments in email unless you specifically requested them or the
sender told you they would be sending one. Second, be very wary of
sites that host illegal content. One such site I know that has been
getting popular is channel 131. This site is known to host viruses.
Another good way of getting viruses is through the use of illegal
torrents. I know as poor students we love pirating, but apart from
being illegal(you probably will not get caught :)) you open yourself
up to viruses and other malware. Sorry about the long diatribe, but I
hope that can help at least one person who reads it be safer online.
Bill

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 7:33 AM, Joshua Lester
<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> Good grief!
> I've updated AVG, and Makafy, but my computer still gets viruses!
> There's got to be something better!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/7/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Where can I find this free version of AVG to download it? Thanks for your
>> help.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 7:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fire Walls
>>
>>
>>>I use the free version of AVG. There is a payed version, but there's also
>>> a
>>> free one, which is also good.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Gloria G
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 8:33 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fire Walls
>>>
>>> Hi Does anyone know of a good free fire wall I can use for my computer? I
>>> was using AVG and now it is time for me to get a new licions. Thanks
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>>> om
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com



-- 
Bill Casson
University of New Mexico
M.S. Computer Science
Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11
B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci.
(505) 695-1374
cassonw at gmail.com


From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Mon May  7 16:12:32 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 11:12:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fire Walls
References: <CA54A68B9B45400F8A979445057E0210@Gloria><001801cd2be9$ae2b2590$0a8170b0$@gmail.com><8F3A1CA902E04FECB62D024E436C978A@Gloria><CAO83KOthODe=HDrqCC+oY=ByrKGDi=bcZ0SN6BYoGhMs++Pb6w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEWJ-9=OLRoq4jKbQrHo9UwEOPJukcOLsuPyj20HO61=YsNVpQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FF0E1CF7C4B046D887008C1E00297347@Gloria>

Thanks for the tips!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bill" <cassonw at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fire Walls


> AVG does have a free version that is for virus protection. It is
> called AVG Free and I believe it can be downloaded from their website.
> I would recommend using windows firewall for the firewall. As to
> Joshua, you should never run more than one virus protection program on
> a computer at a time. They have a great tendency to conflict with each
> other and render both useless. I use Microsoft security essentials on
> my system for virus protection. It is availible from
> download.microsoft.com. Though anti-virus programs can help, the best
> thing you can do to prevent viruses is behavior. Never click on links
> or attachments in email unless you specifically requested them or the
> sender told you they would be sending one. Second, be very wary of
> sites that host illegal content. One such site I know that has been
> getting popular is channel 131. This site is known to host viruses.
> Another good way of getting viruses is through the use of illegal
> torrents. I know as poor students we love pirating, but apart from
> being illegal(you probably will not get caught :)) you open yourself
> up to viruses and other malware. Sorry about the long diatribe, but I
> hope that can help at least one person who reads it be safer online.
> Bill
>
> On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 7:33 AM, Joshua Lester
> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> Good grief!
>> I've updated AVG, and Makafy, but my computer still gets viruses!
>> There's got to be something better!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/7/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> Where can I find this free version of AVG to download it? Thanks for 
>>> your
>>> help.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>>> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 7:38 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fire Walls
>>>
>>>
>>>>I use the free version of AVG. There is a payed version, but there's 
>>>>also
>>>> a
>>>> free one, which is also good.
>>>>
>>>> Chris
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Gloria G
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 8:33 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fire Walls
>>>>
>>>> Hi Does anyone know of a good free fire wall I can use for my computer? 
>>>> I
>>>> was using AVG and now it is time for me to get a new licions. Thanks
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>>>> om
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> -- 
> Bill Casson
> University of New Mexico
> M.S. Computer Science
> Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11
> B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci.
> (505) 695-1374
> cassonw at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com 



From pyyhkala at gmail.com  Mon May  7 16:46:28 2012
From: pyyhkala at gmail.com (Mika Pyyhkala)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 12:46:28 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Global Accessibility Awareness Day is Wednesday,
 Preach Beyond the Choir, Don't Shrug off that Inaccessible Coffee Maker,
 #gaad
Message-ID: <CADOFa3geY3a57uA-hvk95UF6feC9N6=3vVTzfx1yNtmUunamoQ@mail.gmail.com>

Web: http://bit.ly/gaad2012
Twitter Hashtag: #gaad
Facebook: http://facebook.com/GlobalAccessibilityAwarenessDay
Get Automated Background by Email: gaadpromo at gmail.com

Greetings,

I wanted to write and make sure that #gaad was on your radar.  I had
heard of the event before at CSUN 12, but I only really got engaged
and excited about the event on Sunday night, yesterday!

Global Accessibility Awareness Day will feature real world and virtual
events on Wednesday May 9th.

What makes #gaad different?

In many if not all accessibility or disability events, we are largely
preaching to the choir.  In other words, at a major trade show like
CSUN, your talking to people who largely on some level already know
about and perhaps believe in accessibility or universal design.  After
all, they had to spend time and resources to attend an event like CSUN
or an NFB convention.

With #gaad we are trying to reach people, eg most people, who don't
know much if anything about accessibility, or how or if a blind person
can use a computer or moble device.  Global Accessibility Awareness
Day is flexible in that there are a number of ways you can
participate:

I'm going to give you a list here in how I have and plan so far to
participate.  You can do the same things, or come up with your own
ideas once you read the list:

Facebook: Like it and post about it
On Facebook I liked the page
http://facebook.com/GlobalAccessibilityAwarenessDay
by the way its also available on the mobile site
http://m.facebook.com/GlobalAccessibilityAwarenessDay
I have already posted on my time line about it.  It would also be good
to refer to the page on the profile of a company or organization that
either needs to do more about accessibility, or where you want to say
job well done.  You can now use the at sign @ with the main Facebook
site to link to people and organizations, tag, similar to Twitter.
Takeaway: If blind people don't speak up ourselves in social media,
who will speak up for us?

Twitter: Tweet about and to people and organizations with the
#gaad
hashtag.  I have tweeted to several brands as well as product managers
with in brands asking them to incorporate #gaad in to their teams
activitys on Wednesday.  There are also some organizations where I
needed to check on the status of an accessibility related support
request, so I tweeted those organizations to check and also referred
to
#gaad
as well as the web site shortcut which is easy to remember
http://bit.ly/gaad2012
I just heard back from the vp of engineering @nestmatt at Nest Labs,
maker of the Nest thermostat which you can control with your iPhone,
that he would check out #gaad I also mentioned that Victor from Yahoo
@vick08 was a nearby local resource to the Nest corporate office.
BTW, Victor will be speaking at a Los Angeles based #gaad event at
Yahoo.
Takeaway: If your not on Twitter please join as it is a way for us to
collectively influence organizations, and if your already on twitter
tweet with #gaad over the next few days, and support NFB members and
initiatives via Twitter going in to the future.  Twitter is so much
easier than some of the communication tools we had to use in the past,
and facilitates a 1 to many conversation.  How can you beat that?

Email: I've sent a customnized email to several organizations,
including product managers and disability policy evangelists at
several of the airlines, encouraging them to Preach Beyond the choir
in their organizations and incorporate #gaad in their day on
Wednesday.  I've listed specific accessibility challenges and
accomplishments that are specific to and customized  for each airlines
own accessibility situation.  A similar approach could be taken with
any product or service category.
Takeaway: You can use email, but don't just blast out generic
forwards.  Customize and personalize parts of the message and the ask
for the recipient and their respective organization.  Make sure the
person knows you thought about this, and didn't just spend 2 seconds
pressing the forward button.  #gaad also has a neat autoresponder set
up if you email
gaadpromo at gmail.com
you'll get an automated message about the event.  I usually include
this information at the bottom of my customized emails.  It may help
to tell people to email that address in some cases especially in
person or over the phone.

Attend an Event: The #gaad web page has details about in person events
around the world, as well as web events:
http://bit.ly/gaad2012
My understanding is that events may be added over the next 24 hours as
well.  Tweet, post on Facebook, etc. about attending the event or any
accessibility stories you have in the course of attending.  Again,
these could be accessibility triumphs or failures.  The
http://audioboo.fm
service and associated app is excellent for recording from the field,
and may be easier than typing posts longer than a tweet from a mobile
device.  You can link your Audioboo account with Facebook and Twitter
and post with the, you guessed it, #gaad hashtag.  #gaad is also
looking for people to post what it was like to learn about or use
accessibility for the first time.
Takeaway: Events will be both fun and informative & reading the #gaad
day in the life stories will be interesting.

I also just learned that one of our members bought an inaccessible
coffee maker with touch screen only controls, so once I find the
companys social media and executive contacts, I will incorporate #gaad
in to the question about the inaccessible appliance.  Especially with
large companys, its often best to find both key executive decision
makers in addition to  front line gatekeepers who often just want to
and can only briefly and politely thank you for your suggestion.  You
can find information about executives at companys through google,
investor information, investor conference calls, linkedin, media
contacts, as well as college alumni forums.

You can also meet company executives if you attend product launches, etc.

But don't just shrug off that inaccessible coffee maker, literally or
figuratively.  If you shrug it off, how will things like new coffee
makers ever become accessible?  If the blind do not pressure industry
to make current and future coffee makers accessible, who will do that
for us?

Best,
Mika Pyyhkala
@pyyhkala


From readtobuild at gmail.com  Mon May  7 20:38:06 2012
From: readtobuild at gmail.com (Lanie)
Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 15:38:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] College
Message-ID: <4fa832e6.2295b60a.4cea.3f4b@mx.google.com>

Hi, all.  Sorry about not responding sooner.  We lost Internet 
access so I'm at McDonald's replying to these emails.  I did look 
for my book online on RFBD and Bookshare, but unfortunately 
neither one had it.  Thanks for the suggestion though.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 17:24:18 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College

Lanie,

If you're a member of Learning Ally (formerly RFBD,) you may be
able to get the book from there; I know RFBD does some math
books.  You might be able to get it from Bookshare, but I'm not
sure how you would handle the graphics.

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Lanie <readtobuild at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 11:40:18 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College

I'm not sure.  I may be there, but I don't really know yet.  I'll
let you know if I will be.  Thanks for the offer.  I've tried to
work the math on the BrailleNote, but even though you can do it,
it's extremely slow and not good for taking notes.  As for
getting my book electronically, I would if I could find it and if
it's readable.  Most math isn't readable with a screen reader.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 09:24:15 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College

I'm just concerned, because she mentioned her back being affected
by
this constant use of the rolling backpack, with that heavy
Brailler in
it.
That Brailler is extremely heavy, plus with a backpack, with huge
Braille books, it will hurt your back, because I had similar
problems!
For my Math classes, to alleviate the problem, in high school, I
was
fortunate, to have a Brailler, in every classroom, (thanks to my
VR
Counselors,) (this was when they were cooperating.)
I have an old Perkins, that I'm willing to get rid of, by the
Fall, of
this year, because I won't need it again.
Lanie, will you be at convention, this year?
Also, I'm still hoping, that David can market that new
lightweight
Brailler, that he showed me, 2 years ago.
Thanks, Joshua

On 4/20/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
<ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
 Joshua,

     You really could rephrase that as, "If possible, you could
leave the
 Brailler." As has been stated, this does not seem to be an
option.  What
 works for you does not work for everyone.  I know from
experience that it is
 necessary to have a Brailler for certain types of math.

 Nicole

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 4:29 AM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College


 Just use the Braille note.
 Leave the Brailler alone.
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 4/20/12, Lanie <readtobuild at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi all.  I was wondering if anyone could give me advice on this.
 I'm taking Calculus 2 in college and have to carry around
several
 Braille volumes so that I can keep up, a Brailler, my
 BrailleNote, Braille paper, and an APH Graphing Aid for
 Mathematics, all in a huge rolling bag.  I have reason to think
 that all this is messing up my back.  I don't know how to
lighten
 the load, but I can't keep carrxing it.  I've already talked
with
 the Office for Students with Disabilities coordinator, but they
 don't have any Braillers.  How do any others on this list who
are
 taking classes with huge Braille books and other things like
this
 do it? Do you use a large bag like I do? Any advice here would
be
 great! Thanks.

 _______________________________________________
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Mon May  7 20:56:33 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 15:56:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] College
Message-ID: <4fa83723.e167ec0a.295a.ffff9b78@mx.google.com>

What book are you looking for? And can it be on audio? Because if 
so, you could download it from iTunes or if you use the Blio app.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Lanie <readtobuild at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 07 May 2012 15:38:06 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College

Hi, all.  Sorry about not responding sooner.  We lost Internet
access so I'm at McDonald's replying to these emails.  I did look
for my book online on RFBD and Bookshare, but unfortunately
neither one had it.  Thanks for the suggestion though.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 17:24:18 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College

Lanie,

If you're a member of Learning Ally (formerly RFBD,) you may be
able to get the book from there; I know RFBD does some math
books.  You might be able to get it from Bookshare, but I'm not
sure how you would handle the graphics.

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Lanie <readtobuild at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 11:40:18 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College

I'm not sure.  I may be there, but I don't really know yet.  I'll
let you know if I will be.  Thanks for the offer.  I've tried to
work the math on the BrailleNote, but even though you can do it,
it's extremely slow and not good for taking notes.  As for
getting my book electronically, I would if I could find it and if
it's readable.  Most math isn't readable with a screen reader.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 09:24:15 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College

I'm just concerned, because she mentioned her back being affected
by
this constant use of the rolling backpack, with that heavy
Brailler in
it.
That Brailler is extremely heavy, plus with a backpack, with huge
Braille books, it will hurt your back, because I had similar
problems!
For my Math classes, to alleviate the problem, in high school, I
was
fortunate, to have a Brailler, in every classroom, (thanks to my
VR
Counselors,) (this was when they were cooperating.)
I have an old Perkins, that I'm willing to get rid of, by the
Fall, of
this year, because I won't need it again.
Lanie, will you be at convention, this year?
Also, I'm still hoping, that David can market that new
lightweight
Brailler, that he showed me, 2 years ago.
Thanks, Joshua

On 4/20/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
<ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
 Joshua,

     You really could rephrase that as, "If possible, you could
leave the
 Brailler." As has been stated, this does not seem to be an
option.  What
 works for you does not work for everyone.  I know from
experience that it is
 necessary to have a Brailler for certain types of math.

 Nicole

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 4:29 AM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College


 Just use the Braille note.
 Leave the Brailler alone.
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 4/20/12, Lanie <readtobuild at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi all.  I was wondering if anyone could give me advice on this.
 I'm taking Calculus 2 in college and have to carry around
several
 Braille volumes so that I can keep up, a Brailler, my
 BrailleNote, Braille paper, and an APH Graphing Aid for
 Mathematics, all in a huge rolling bag.  I have reason to think
 that all this is messing up my back.  I don't know how to
lighten
 the load, but I can't keep carrxing it.  I've already talked
with
 the Office for Students with Disabilities coordinator, but they
 don't have any Braillers.  How do any others on this list who
are
 taking classes with huge Braille books and other things like
this
 do it? Do you use a large bag like I do? Any advice here would
be
 great! Thanks.

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info for
 nabs-l:

http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
0students.pccua.edu


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 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
info for
 nabs-l:

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wavecable.com



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 nabs-l:

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon May  7 22:13:43 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 18:13:43 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: HumanWare Announces Changes to Non-Visual Access
	Software for BlackBerry Smartphones with discontinuation of
	Oratio for BlackBerry
In-Reply-To: <1336414319.4fa8106f4e510@swift.generated>
References: <1336414319.4fa8106f4e510@swift.generated>
Message-ID: <001c01cd2c9e$ab601c70$02205550$@gmail.com>

FYI:

 

From: HumanWare [mailto:marcom at humanware.com] 
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 2:12 PM
To: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
Subject: HumanWare Announces Changes to Non-Visual Access Software for BlackBerry Smartphones with discontinuation of Oratio for BlackBerry

 

Having trouble viewing this e-mail? Click here <http://visit.humanware.com/e/3332/eb-en-newsletter-383-htm/22skjr/422199732> 


  




 <http://visit.humanware.com/e/3332/2012-05-07/22skk3/422199732> Description: Image removed by sender. HumanWare logo. see things. differently.

		

 


  



PRESS RELEASE


  



HumanWare Announces Changes to Non-Visual Access Software for BlackBerry Smartphones with discontinuation of Oratio for BlackBerry


May 7, 2012 - Since 2008, HumanWare and Research In Motion (RIM) have worked together to help provide non-visual access to BlackBerry® smartphones. Today, HumanWare and RIM announced changes to assure availability of screen reader solutions for BlackBerry smartphones as part of both companies' continued commitment to accessibility.

With RIM's announcement today of the availability of the BlackBerry® Screen Reader from www.blackberry.com/screenreader, the Oratio screen reader application will no longer be available through HumanWare. Customers interested in screen reading solutions for BlackBerry smartphones can learn more about BlackBerry Screen Reader and other BlackBerry accessibility solutions at www.blackberry.com/accessibility <http://visit.humanware.com/e/3332/ccessibility/22skkr/422199732>  or by contacting accessibility at rim.com. Oratio users can also reach HumanWare customer service representatives for any questions at hca.csr at humanware.com or by calling 1 800 722-3393.

"We are proud to have been at the forefront of non-visual access for BlackBerry smartphones and we commend RIM for their commitment to accessibility and for offering the new BlackBerry Screen Readerfor their customers. We encourage Oratio for BlackBerry customers to contact RIM to learn more about the BlackBerry Screen Reader," said Lucia Gomez, group brand manager at HumanWare.

 


About HumanWare


HumanWare (www.humanware.com <http://visit.humanware.com/e/3332/2012-05-07/22skk3/422199732> ) is the global leader in assistive technologies for the print disabled. HumanWare provides products to people who are blind or have low vision, and students with learning disabilities. HumanWare offers a collection of innovative products, including BrailleNote, the leading productivity device for the blind in education, business and for personal use; the Victor Reader product line, the world's leading digital audiobook players; the SmartView family of handheld and desktop electronic magnifiers and Trekker Breeze, the all-in-one handheld talking GPS. 

The BlackBerry and RIM families of related marks, images and symbols are the exclusive properties and trademarks of Research In Motion Limited.


Unsubscribe <http://visit.humanware.com/unsubscribe/u/3332/d45ff76efa2b26dd4a8021f4cc94cbe8/422199732>  from email communicationsDescription: Image removed by sender.

 

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon May  7 22:42:43 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 18:42:43 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fire Walls
In-Reply-To: <8F3A1CA902E04FECB62D024E436C978A@Gloria>
References: <CA54A68B9B45400F8A979445057E0210@Gloria>	<001801cd2be9$ae2b2590$0a8170b0$@gmail.com>
	<8F3A1CA902E04FECB62D024E436C978A@Gloria>
Message-ID: <002d01cd2ca2$b7ef74a0$27ce5de0$@gmail.com>

Hi Gloria,

I believe you can download it from the AVG Web site, which is www.avg.com.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Gloria G
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 9:07 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fire Walls

Hi,
Where can I find this free version of AVG to download it? Thanks for your
help.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fire Walls


>I use the free version of AVG. There is a payed version, but there's 
>also a  free one, which is also good.
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Gloria G
> Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 8:33 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Fire Walls
>
> Hi Does anyone know of a good free fire wall I can use for my 
> computer? I was using AVG and now it is time for me to get a new 
> licions. Thanks _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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> mail.c
> om
>
>
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om



From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Mon May  7 22:50:45 2012
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 15:50:45 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
	Ruling for Braille instruction to a Blind child.
Message-ID: <339305386B7B4446A1D5821155FBB224@HUMBERTOAVILA>

Dear everyone,
 
Please read this article put out by the NFB just today. It is concerning
Braille instruction for a blind kid. and if you can read it on a Braille
display, it will be better. (smile!) the link is:
http://nfb.org/national-federation-blind-applauds-new-jersey-ruling-braille-
instruction-blind-child#main-content
 
I hope that similar rulings will be worked out in many other states and in
this country as a whole. 
 

From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon May  7 22:53:36 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 18:53:36 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
	Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local>
Message-ID: <003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com>

 

 

From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org] 
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
To: Undisclosed recipients:
Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

 

CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

 <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org

 


National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
New Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child


After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction


 

Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative and
legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number: 2011
17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son Henry
"Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading and
writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the assistance
of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB), comes
on the heels of
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
%20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who need
Braille instruction receive it. 

 

Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged print
for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods of
time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that their
son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading, the
school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind and
Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print reader,
notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act of
2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille instruction.
She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity and
quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and the
commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should participate
in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB concluded
after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss of
reading speed and comprehension. 

 

In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged failure
to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology as
reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as pointed
out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not equate
to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text by
passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."  The
order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to do,
which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge James-Beavers
ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for forty-five
minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
tutoring. 

 

Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
"Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the years,
the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction when
it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge has
confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment in
obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and which
they deserve."

 

Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle to
achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that other
parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank the
National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts who
came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille instruction
for blind children."

 

The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum of
the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of the
Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.

 

For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .

 

 

 

###

 

 

About the National Federation of the Blind 

 

With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the
largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the
United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and
self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National
Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training
center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.

 


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May  7 23:07:23 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 19:07:23 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
	JerseyRuling for Braille instruction to a Blind child.
In-Reply-To: <339305386B7B4446A1D5821155FBB224@HUMBERTOAVILA>
References: <339305386B7B4446A1D5821155FBB224@HUMBERTOAVILA>
Message-ID: <50624081D8134386A3ED45412EF815F1@OwnerPC>

I went to that link, it does not work.
there must be another one out there.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Humberto Avila
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 6:50 PM
To: blindTlk at nfbNet.org ; nabs-l at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Cc: deniserob at gmail.com
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds New JerseyRuling 
for Braille instruction to a Blind child.

Dear everyone,

Please read this article put out by the NFB just today. It is concerning
Braille instruction for a blind kid. and if you can read it on a Braille
display, it will be better. (smile!) the link is:
http://nfb.org/national-federation-blind-applauds-new-jersey-ruling-braille-
instruction-blind-child#main-content

I hope that similar rulings will be worked out in many other states and in
this country as a whole.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Mon May  7 23:37:08 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 18:37:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
	JerseyRuling for Braille instruction to a Blind child.
Message-ID: <4fa85cc6.0b32650a.271f.ffff846d@mx.google.com>

Ditto. The link does not work.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Humberto Avila" <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com
To: 
<blindTlk at nfbNet.org>,<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 7 May 2012 15:50:45 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds New 
JerseyRuling for Braille instruction to a Blind child.

Dear everyone,

Please read this article put out by the NFB just today. It is 
concerning
Braille instruction for a blind kid. and if you can read it on a 
Braille
display, it will be better. (smile!) the link is:
http://nfb.org/national-federation-blind-applauds-new-jersey-ruli
ng-braille-
instruction-blind-child#main-content

I hope that similar rulings will be worked out in many other 
states and in
this country as a whole.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
r%40gmail.com


From cassonw at gmail.com  Mon May  7 23:46:04 2012
From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 17:46:04 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
 JerseyRuling for Braille instruction to a Blind child.
In-Reply-To: <4fa85cc6.0b32650a.271f.ffff846d@mx.google.com>
References: <4fa85cc6.0b32650a.271f.ffff846d@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAEWJ-9=PXDS5HsUneSamnmQXyD=L4R98xB9zCDVUJK5zkdENLg@mail.gmail.com>

http://nfb.org/national-federation-blind-applauds-new-jersey-ruling-braille-instruction-blind-child

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ditto. The link does not work.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Humberto Avila" <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com
> To: <blindTlk at nfbNet.org>,<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 7 May 2012 15:50:45 -0700
> Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds New JerseyRuling
> for Braille instruction to a Blind child.
>
> Dear everyone,
>
> Please read this article put out by the NFB just today. It is concerning
> Braille instruction for a blind kid. and if you can read it on a Braille
> display, it will be better. (smile!) the link is:
> http://nfb.org/national-federation-blind-applauds-new-jersey-ruli
> ng-braille-
> instruction-blind-child#main-content
>
> I hope that similar rulings will be worked out in many other states and in
> this country as a whole.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com



-- 
Bill Casson
University of New Mexico
M.S. Computer Science
Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11
B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci.
(505) 695-1374
cassonw at gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon May  7 23:51:23 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 19:51:23 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
	New Jersey	Ruling for Braille instruction to a Blind child.
In-Reply-To: <339305386B7B4446A1D5821155FBB224@HUMBERTOAVILA>
References: <339305386B7B4446A1D5821155FBB224@HUMBERTOAVILA>
Message-ID: <003501cd2cac$505dbd10$f1193730$@gmail.com>

Hello Humberto,

Your link somehow got messed with, as it appeared with words missing and a
couple line breaks. Seeing as all of the people who have replied to this
email have said that the link was broken, it looks like it wasn't just me
who saw this bad link. I have also forwarded the press release to all of the
lists you have sent the link to, so I would encourage anyone who wants to
read this press release to see my email with the subject FW: National
Federation of the Blind applauds New Jersey ruling regarding Braille
instruction for blind child. This email has the entire text of the press
release in the message body.

If you have deleted this email or it somehow hasn't come to you, I would go
to www.nfb.org and look at the What's New heading under the home page. A
link to the press release should be there.

Thanks and hope this helps,

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:blindtlk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Humberto Avila
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 6:51 PM
To: blindTlk at nfbNet.org; nabs-l at nfbnet.org; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Cc: deniserob at gmail.com
Subject: [Blindtlk] National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
Ruling for Braille instruction to a Blind child.

Dear everyone,
 
Please read this article put out by the NFB just today. It is concerning
Braille instruction for a blind kid. and if you can read it on a Braille
display, it will be better. (smile!) the link is:
http://nfb.org/national-federation-blind-applauds-new-jersey-ruling-braille-
instruction-blind-child#main-content
 
I hope that similar rulings will be worked out in many other states and in
this country as a whole. 
 
_______________________________________________
blindtlk mailing list
blindtlk at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
blindtlk:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail
.com



From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Mon May  7 22:57:08 2012
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 19:57:08 -0300
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
	JerseyRuling for Braille instruction to a Blind child.
In-Reply-To: <CAEWJ-9=PXDS5HsUneSamnmQXyD=L4R98xB9zCDVUJK5zkdENLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4fa85cc6.0b32650a.271f.ffff846d@mx.google.com>
	<CAEWJ-9=PXDS5HsUneSamnmQXyD=L4R98xB9zCDVUJK5zkdENLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <52190A4FE0BA4F6EBA5BED74025214D2@userPC>

Thanks for the correction on the link.
Rania,

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Bill
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:46 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
JerseyRuling for Braille instruction to a Blind child.

http://nfb.org/national-federation-blind-applauds-new-jersey-ruling-braille-
instruction-blind-child

On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Ditto. The link does not work.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Humberto Avila" <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com
> To: <blindTlk at nfbNet.org>,<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 7 May 2012 15:50:45 -0700
> Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
JerseyRuling
> for Braille instruction to a Blind child.
>
> Dear everyone,
>
> Please read this article put out by the NFB just today. It is concerning
> Braille instruction for a blind kid. and if you can read it on a Braille
> display, it will be better. (smile!) the link is:
> http://nfb.org/national-federation-blind-applauds-new-jersey-ruli
> ng-braille-
> instruction-blind-child#main-content
>
> I hope that similar rulings will be worked out in many other states and in
> this country as a whole.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com



-- 
Bill Casson
University of New Mexico
M.S. Computer Science
Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11
B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci.
(505) 695-1374
cassonw at gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co
m



From isaiah5719 at mchsi.com  Tue May  8 00:09:44 2012
From: isaiah5719 at mchsi.com (Loren)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 19:09:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
	Jersey	Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local>
	<003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com>

It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.  Would
anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  Congrats to
the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your child.  

Loren Wakefield 



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 

 

From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
To: Undisclosed recipients:
Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

 

CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

 <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org

 


National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
Instruction for Blind Child


After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction


 

Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative and
legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number: 2011
17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son Henry
"Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading and
writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the assistance
of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB), comes
on the heels of
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
%20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who need
Braille instruction receive it. 

 

Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged print
for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods of
time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that their
son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading, the
school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind and
Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print reader,
notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act of
2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille instruction.
She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity and
quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and the
commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should participate
in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB concluded
after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss of
reading speed and comprehension. 

 

In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged failure
to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology as
reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as pointed
out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not equate
to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text by
passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."  The
order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to do,
which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge James-Beavers
ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for forty-five
minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
tutoring. 

 

Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
"Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the years,
the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction when
it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge has
confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment in
obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and which
they deserve."

 

Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle to
achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that other
parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank the
National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts who
came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille instruction
for blind children."

 

The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum of
the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of the
Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.

 

For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .

 

 

 

###

 

 

About the National Federation of the Blind 

 

With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the
largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the
United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and
self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National
Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training
center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.

 

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue May  8 00:51:58 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 20:51:58 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
	NewJersey	Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local><003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com>
	<001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com>
Message-ID: <2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC>

I agree, how  sad.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Loren
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ; 
blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.  Would
anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  Congrats to
the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your child.

Loren Wakefield



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
To: Undisclosed recipients:
Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
Braille Instruction for Blind Child



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

<mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
Instruction for Blind Child


After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction




Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative and
legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number: 2011
17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son Henry
"Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading and
writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the assistance
of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB), comes
on the heels of
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
%20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who need
Braille instruction receive it.



Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged print
for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods of
time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that their
son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading, the
school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind and
Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print reader,
notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act of
2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille instruction.
She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity and
quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and the
commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should participate
in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB concluded
after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss of
reading speed and comprehension.



In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged failure
to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology as
reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as pointed
out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not equate
to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text by
passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."  The
order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to do,
which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge James-Beavers
ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for forty-five
minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
tutoring.



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
"Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the years,
the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction when
it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge has
confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment in
obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and which
they deserve."



Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle to
achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that other
parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank the
National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts who
came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille instruction
for blind children."



The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum of
the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of the
Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







###





About the National Federation of the Blind



With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the
largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the
United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and
self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National
Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training
center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



_______________________________________________
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue May  8 00:57:03 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 20:57:03 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] a really cool service: RoboBrailleFW: Here it is.
Message-ID: <004801cd2cb5$7c395fd0$74ac1f70$@gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

I have mentioned on the lists a service called RoboBraille before, and have
recommended it for conversions of files. But I had no idea it was so
powerful until the attached leaflet was sent to me about how much
Robobraille can really do. This is very cool, so please check it out!

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: jessica [mailto:jessicabrown531 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 9:23 PM
To: chris
Subject: Here it is.

Here it is. I hope you find it helpful.

sent from my BrailleNote
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: RoboBraille Service Summary version 1-19 leaflet en.doc
Type: application/octet-stream
Size: 1441285 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/attachments/20120507/eb6e07e7/attachment.a>

From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue May  8 00:59:47 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 20:59:47 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
	New	Jersey	Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local>	<003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com>
	<001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com>
Message-ID: <004c01cd2cb5$de5ea620$9b1bf260$@gmail.com>

Amen!!!

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Loren
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:10 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list';
blindtlk at nfbnet.org; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.  Would
anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  Congrats to
the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your child.  

Loren Wakefield 



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 

 

From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
To: Undisclosed recipients:
Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

 

CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

 <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org

 


National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
Instruction for Blind Child


After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction


 

Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative and
legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number: 2011
17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son Henry
"Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading and
writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the assistance
of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB), comes
on the heels of
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
%20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who need
Braille instruction receive it. 

 

Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged print
for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods of
time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that their
son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading, the
school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind and
Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print reader,
notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act of
2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille instruction.
She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity and
quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and the
commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should participate
in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB concluded
after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss of
reading speed and comprehension. 

 

In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged failure
to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology as
reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as pointed
out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not equate
to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text by
passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."  The
order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to do,
which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge James-Beavers
ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for forty-five
minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
tutoring. 

 

Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
"Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the years,
the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction when
it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge has
confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment in
obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and which
they deserve."

 

Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle to
achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that other
parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank the
National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts who
came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille instruction
for blind children."

 

The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum of
the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of the
Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.

 

For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .

 

 

 

###

 

 

About the National Federation of the Blind 

 

With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the
largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the
United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and
self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National
Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training
center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.

 

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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om



From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Tue May  8 02:03:27 2012
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 20:03:27 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
	ApplaudsNewJersey	Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
Message-ID: <4fa87ef0.c3043c0a.5468.5244@mx.google.com>

I had Braille instruction and know the benefits, but poor Hank 
will have to catch up.  But I'm sure the young man is really 
smart and can catch it fast when he learns the benefits of 
Braille and experiences them firsthand.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 7 May 2012 20:51:58 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
ApplaudsNewJersey	Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

I agree, how  sad.

-----Original Message-----
From: Loren
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this 
decision.  Would
anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  
Congrats to
the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your 
child.

Loren Wakefield



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students 
mailing
list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
New Jersey
Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
To: Undisclosed recipients:
Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey 
Ruling on
Braille Instruction for Blind Child



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

<mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on 
Braille
Instruction for Blind Child


After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille 
Instruction




Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year 
administrative and
legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport 
Board of
Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket 
number: 2011
17218) from an administrative law judge that their 
eleven-year-old son Henry
"Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the 
reading and
writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the 
assistance
of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  
(NFB), comes
on the heels of
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
Duncan%20re
%20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging 
the
Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind 
children who need
Braille instruction receive it.



Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of 
their son,
Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to 
albinism and
nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read 
enlarged print
for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained 
periods of
time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials 
that their
son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty 
reading, the
school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for 
the Blind and
Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient 
print reader,
notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource 
room for
language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due 
process
provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education 
Improvement Act of
2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely 
struggle with
his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was 
unable to
convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille 
instruction.
She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same 
quantity and
quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the 
school and the
commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should 
participate
in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB 
concluded
after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for 
extended
periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, 
and loss of
reading speed and comprehension.



In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found 
that the
school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against 
Braille."
She found that the school board and the commission had failed to 
assess
Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on 
reading
assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's 
alleged failure
to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was 
unconvinced by
the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio 
technology as
reading demands increased through his school years, noting that 
"as pointed
out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does 
not equate
to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of 
comprehending text by
passively listening, even if one is following along with the 
reading."  The
order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on 
them to do,
which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. 
meaningful
educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge 
James-Beavers
ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for 
forty-five
minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide 
compensatory
instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided 
with
Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer 
programs or
tutoring.



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the 
Blind, said:
"Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children 
and blind
adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over 
the years,
the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that 
blind
children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille 
instruction when
it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and 
comprehensive
examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent 
judge has
confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency 
officials
across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to 
giving
blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for 
the vast
majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The 
National
Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like 
the
Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational 
establishment in
obtaining the equal education to which their children are 
entitled and which
they deserve."



Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with 
this
ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a 
prolonged battle to
achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes 
that other
parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I 
thank the
National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and 
experts who
came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and 
publicly
advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille 
instruction
for blind children."



The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon 
Krevor-Weisbaum of
the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. 
Wesler of the
Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, 
please
visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information 
about
Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







###





About the National Federation of the Blind



With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the 
Blind is the
largest and most influential membership organization of blind 
people in the
United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through 
advocacy,
education, research, technology, and programs encouraging 
independence and
self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field 
today and
the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened 
the National
Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research 
and training
center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
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mchsi.com


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
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nabs-l:
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0earthlink.net


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se%40gmail.com


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue May  8 01:01:49 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 20:01:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local>
	<003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com>
	<001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com>
	<2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com>

How old is the child?
I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
Any word on how old he is?
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I agree, how  sad.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loren
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.  Would
> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  Congrats to
> the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your child.
>
> Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
> Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
> To: Undisclosed recipients:
> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
> CONTACT:
>
> Chris Danielsen
>
> Director of Public Relations
>
> National Federation of the Blind
>
> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
> Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>
>
>
>
> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative and
> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number: 2011
> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
> Henry
> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading and
> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
> assistance
> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB), comes
> on the heels of
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
> need
> Braille instruction receive it.
>
>
>
> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged print
> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods
> of
> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
> their
> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading, the
> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
> and
> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print reader,
> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act
> of
> 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille instruction.
> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity and
> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
> the
> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should participate
> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB concluded
> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss
> of
> reading speed and comprehension.
>
>
>
> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
> failure
> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology as
> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as pointed
> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
> equate
> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text by
> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."  The
> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
> do,
> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge James-Beavers
> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
> forty-five
> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
> tutoring.
>
>
>
> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the years,
> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction when
> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge has
> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment in
> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
> which
> they deserve."
>
>
>
> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle
> to
> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that other
> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank the
> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts who
> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille instruction
> for blind children."
>
>
>
> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum of
> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of the
> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>
>
>
> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ###
>
>
>
>
>
> About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the
> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the
> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and
> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the
> National
> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training
> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Tue May  8 02:13:23 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 21:13:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
	NewJersey	Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
Message-ID: <4fa88166.060c650a.5774.ffffa981@mx.google.com>

They'll learn... one day, they'll learn.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Loren" <isaiah5719 at mchsi.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list'"<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>, <blindtlk at nfbnet.org>, 
<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 7 May 2012 19:09:44 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
Applauds NewJersey	Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this 
decision.  Would
anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  
Congrats to
the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your 
child.

Loren Wakefield



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students 
mailing
list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
New Jersey
Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
To: Undisclosed recipients:
Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey 
Ruling on
Braille Instruction for Blind Child



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

 <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on 
Braille
Instruction for Blind Child


After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille 
Instruction




Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year 
administrative and
legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport 
Board of
Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket 
number: 2011
17218) from an administrative law judge that their 
eleven-year-old son Henry
"Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the 
reading and
writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the 
assistance
of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  
(NFB), comes
on the heels of
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
Duncan%20re
%20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging 
the
Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind 
children who need
Braille instruction receive it.



Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of 
their son,
Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to 
albinism and
nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read 
enlarged print
for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained 
periods of
time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials 
that their
son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty 
reading, the
school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for 
the Blind and
Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient 
print reader,
notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource 
room for
language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due 
process
provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education 
Improvement Act of
2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely 
struggle with
his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was 
unable to
convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille 
instruction.
She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same 
quantity and
quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the 
school and the
commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should 
participate
in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB 
concluded
after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for 
extended
periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, 
and loss of
reading speed and comprehension.



In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found 
that the
school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against 
Braille."
She found that the school board and the commission had failed to 
assess
Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on 
reading
assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's 
alleged failure
to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was 
unconvinced by
the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio 
technology as
reading demands increased through his school years, noting that 
"as pointed
out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does 
not equate
to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of 
comprehending text by
passively listening, even if one is following along with the 
reading."  The
order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on 
them to do,
which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. 
meaningful
educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge 
James-Beavers
ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for 
forty-five
minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide 
compensatory
instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided 
with
Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer 
programs or
tutoring.



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the 
Blind, said:
"Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children 
and blind
adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over 
the years,
the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that 
blind
children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille 
instruction when
it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and 
comprehensive
examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent 
judge has
confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency 
officials
across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to 
giving
blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for 
the vast
majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The 
National
Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like 
the
Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational 
establishment in
obtaining the equal education to which their children are 
entitled and which
they deserve."



Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with 
this
ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a 
prolonged battle to
achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes 
that other
parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I 
thank the
National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and 
experts who
came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and 
publicly
advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille 
instruction
for blind children."



The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon 
Krevor-Weisbaum of
the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. 
Wesler of the
Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, 
please
visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information 
about
Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







###





About the National Federation of the Blind



With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the 
Blind is the
largest and most influential membership organization of blind 
people in the
United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through 
advocacy,
education, research, technology, and programs encouraging 
independence and
self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field 
today and
the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened 
the National
Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research 
and training
center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40
mchsi.com


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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r%40gmail.com


From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Tue May  8 02:30:11 2012
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Mon, 07 May 2012 20:30:11 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind ApplaudsNewJersey
	Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
Message-ID: <4fa88535.2227b60a.240b.6c98@mx.google.com>

11.  He is only 11 years old, which is ok, but he could have been 
further along than this.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 7 May 2012 20:01:49 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
ApplaudsNewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

How old is the child?
I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
Any word on how old he is?
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
 I agree, how  sad.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Loren
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
 To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
 blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this 
decision.  Would
 anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  
Congrats to
 the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for 
your child.

 Loren Wakefield



 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
 Behalf
 Of Chris Nusbaum
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
 To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students 
mailing
 list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
New Jersey
 Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





 From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
 To: Undisclosed recipients:
 Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey 
Ruling on
 Braille Instruction for Blind Child



 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



 CONTACT:

 Chris Danielsen

 Director of Public Relations

 National Federation of the Blind

 (410) 659-9314, extension 2330

 (410) 262-1281 (Cell)

 <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




 National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on 
Braille
 Instruction for Blind Child


 After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille 
Instruction




 Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year 
administrative and
 legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport 
Board of
 Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket 
number: 2011
 17218) from an administrative law judge that their 
eleven-year-old son
 Henry
 "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the 
reading and
 writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with 
the
 assistance
 of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  
(NFB), comes
 on the heels of
 
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
Duncan%20re
 %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging 
the
 Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind 
children who
 need
 Braille instruction receive it.



 Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of 
their son,
 Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to 
albinism and
 nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read 
enlarged print
 for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for 
sustained periods
 of
 time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school 
officials that
 their
 son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty 
reading, the
 school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for 
the Blind
 and
 Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient 
print reader,
 notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource 
room for
 language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due 
process
 provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education 
Improvement Act
 of
 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely 
struggle with
 his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was 
unable to
 convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille 
instruction.
 She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same 
quantity and
 quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the 
school and
 the
 commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should 
participate
 in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB 
concluded
 after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for 
extended
 periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, 
and loss
 of
 reading speed and comprehension.



 In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found 
that the
 school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against 
Braille."
 She found that the school board and the commission had failed to 
assess
 Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead 
on reading
 assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's 
alleged
 failure
 to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was 
unconvinced by
 the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio 
technology as
 reading demands increased through his school years, noting that 
"as pointed
 out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening 
does not
 equate
 to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of 
comprehending text by
 passively listening, even if one is following along with the 
reading."  The
 order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on 
them to
 do,
 which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. 
meaningful
 educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge 
James-Beavers
 ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction 
for
 forty-five
 minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide 
compensatory
 instruction because of the three years that Hank was not 
provided with
 Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer 
programs or
 tutoring.



 Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the 
Blind, said:
 "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children 
and blind
 adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over 
the years,
 the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued 
that blind
 children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille 
instruction when
 it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and 
comprehensive
 examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an 
independent judge has
 confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency 
officials
 across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit 
to giving
 blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for 
the vast
 majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The 
National
 Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families 
like the
 Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational 
establishment in
 obtaining the equal education to which their children are 
entitled and
 which
 they deserve."



 Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with 
this
 ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a 
prolonged battle
 to
 achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes 
that other
 parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  
I thank the
 National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and 
experts who
 came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and 
publicly
 advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille 
instruction
 for blind children."



 The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon 
Krevor-Weisbaum of
 the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. 
Wesler of the
 Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



 For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, 
please
 visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information 
about
 Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please 
visit
 www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







 ###





 About the National Federation of the Blind



 With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the 
Blind is the
 largest and most influential membership organization of blind 
people in the
 United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through 
advocacy,
 education, research, technology, and programs encouraging 
independence and
 self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field 
today and
 the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened 
the
 National
 Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research 
and training
 center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40
mchsi.com


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 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
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0earthlink.net



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 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
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0students.pccua.edu


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
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se%40gmail.com


From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Tue May  8 02:31:53 2012
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 19:31:53 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
	NewJerseyRuling for Braille instruction to a Blind child.
In-Reply-To: <4fa85cc6.0b32650a.271f.ffff846d@mx.google.com>
References: <4fa85cc6.0b32650a.271f.ffff846d@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <E75F37E3A2BC407A9832828A4C0F6C32@HUMBERTOAVILA>

I just double-checked on this, and, in my system, it works. Weird! 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Sophie Trist
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 4:37 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJerseyRuling for Braille instruction to a Blind child.

Ditto. The link does not work.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Humberto Avila" <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com
To: 
<blindTlk at nfbNet.org>,<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,<nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 7 May 2012 15:50:45 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds New 
JerseyRuling for Braille instruction to a Blind child.

Dear everyone,

Please read this article put out by the NFB just today. It is 
concerning
Braille instruction for a blind kid. and if you can read it on a 
Braille
display, it will be better. (smile!) the link is:
http://nfb.org/national-federation-blind-applauds-new-jersey-ruli
ng-braille-
instruction-blind-child#main-content

I hope that similar rulings will be worked out in many other 
states and in
this country as a whole.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
r%40gmail.com

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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mail.com



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Tue May  8 02:41:33 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 20:41:33 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local>
	<003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com>
	<001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com>
	<2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJD-cmw1YEOJ_SewED38v7-KHnHi_cdY9SEyMEvW-eo5=w@mail.gmail.com>

It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to
resolve. What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children,
these battles aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the
first place. Parents capitulate to the professionals' insistence that
their child doesn't need Braille, or they want to fight but don't have
the time, energy or legal resources to stick it out.
The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the
denial of Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
entrusted to promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just
read a few weeks ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to
provide her with Braille copies of the storybooks her classmates were
given in school. Instead, the teacher thought it sufficient to give
the child stuffed toys representing the characters in the stories. I
can understand using toys to substitute for the pictures, but if the
sighted kids are getting copies of the stories, why not give the exact
same content to the blind child as well? I might add that in today's
electronic world, and even before computers existed, transcribing a
book for preschoolers is not difficult. And even in this case with the
Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's decision
not to provide Braille. If even the folks who are charged to teach us
literacy don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a
certified teacher of blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or
who refuses to hold their students to competitive reading standards,
is not deserving of that certificate.
I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to
bring about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille
today and in the future.
Arielle

On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> How old is the child?
> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
> Any word on how old he is?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> I agree, how  sad.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Loren
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
>> Would
>> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  Congrats to
>> the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your child.
>>
>> Loren Wakefield
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
>> Jersey
>> Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>> To: Undisclosed recipients:
>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>
>>
>>
>> CONTACT:
>>
>> Chris Danielsen
>>
>> Director of Public Relations
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind
>>
>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>
>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>
>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
>> Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
>> and
>> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
>> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
>> 2011
>> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
>> Henry
>> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
>> and
>> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
>> assistance
>> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
>> comes
>> on the heels of
>> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
>> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
>> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
>> need
>> Braille instruction receive it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
>> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
>> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
>> print
>> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods
>> of
>> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
>> their
>> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
>> the
>> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
>> and
>> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
>> reader,
>> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
>> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
>> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act
>> of
>> 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
>> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
>> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>> instruction.
>> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
>> and
>> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
>> the
>> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>> participate
>> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>> concluded
>> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
>> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss
>> of
>> reading speed and comprehension.
>>
>>
>>
>> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
>> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
>> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
>> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
>> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
>> failure
>> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
>> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
>> as
>> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
>> pointed
>> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
>> equate
>> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
>> by
>> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
>> The
>> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
>> do,
>> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
>> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>> James-Beavers
>> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
>> forty-five
>> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
>> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
>> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
>> tutoring.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
>> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
>> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
>> years,
>> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
>> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
>> when
>> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
>> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
>> has
>> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
>> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
>> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
>> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
>> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
>> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
>> in
>> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
>> which
>> they deserve."
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
>> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle
>> to
>> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
>> other
>> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
>> the
>> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
>> who
>> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
>> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>> instruction
>> for blind children."
>>
>>
>>
>> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
>> of
>> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of the
>> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>>
>>
>>
>> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
>> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
>> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
>> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ###
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>
>>
>>
>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
>> the
>> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
>> the
>> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
>> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
>> and
>> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
>> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the
>> National
>> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
>> training
>> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue May  8 02:57:07 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 21:57:07 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJD-cmw1YEOJ_SewED38v7-KHnHi_cdY9SEyMEvW-eo5=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local>
	<003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com>
	<001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com>
	<2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJD-cmw1YEOJ_SewED38v7-KHnHi_cdY9SEyMEvW-eo5=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOuqS+Bae+mp4tjkO-3Aq=NqCxwC3zzcrha7bSx_Fs8v+g@mail.gmail.com>

Wow!
BTW, that's not okay!
He should have had Braille, from Kindergarten, on!
They always wait too late!
He's going to be 25, and still in high school, because he's got to catch up!
This is pathetic!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/7/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to
> resolve. What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children,
> these battles aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the
> first place. Parents capitulate to the professionals' insistence that
> their child doesn't need Braille, or they want to fight but don't have
> the time, energy or legal resources to stick it out.
> The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the
> denial of Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
> entrusted to promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just
> read a few weeks ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to
> provide her with Braille copies of the storybooks her classmates were
> given in school. Instead, the teacher thought it sufficient to give
> the child stuffed toys representing the characters in the stories. I
> can understand using toys to substitute for the pictures, but if the
> sighted kids are getting copies of the stories, why not give the exact
> same content to the blind child as well? I might add that in today's
> electronic world, and even before computers existed, transcribing a
> book for preschoolers is not difficult. And even in this case with the
> Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's decision
> not to provide Braille. If even the folks who are charged to teach us
> literacy don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a
> certified teacher of blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or
> who refuses to hold their students to competitive reading standards,
> is not deserving of that certificate.
> I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to
> bring about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille
> today and in the future.
> Arielle
>
> On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> How old is the child?
>> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
>> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
>> Any word on how old he is?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> I agree, how  sad.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Loren
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
>>> Would
>>> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  Congrats
>>> to
>>> the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your child.
>>>
>>> Loren Wakefield
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
>>> list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
>>> Jersey
>>> Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>>> To: Undisclosed recipients:
>>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>>> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> CONTACT:
>>>
>>> Chris Danielsen
>>>
>>> Director of Public Relations
>>>
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>
>>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>>
>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>>
>>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
>>> Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>>
>>> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
>>> and
>>> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
>>> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
>>> 2011
>>> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
>>> Henry
>>> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
>>> and
>>> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
>>> assistance
>>> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
>>> comes
>>> on the heels of
>>> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
>>> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
>>> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
>>> need
>>> Braille instruction receive it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
>>> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
>>> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
>>> print
>>> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained
>>> periods
>>> of
>>> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
>>> their
>>> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
>>> the
>>> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
>>> and
>>> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
>>> reader,
>>> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
>>> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
>>> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement
>>> Act
>>> of
>>> 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle
>>> with
>>> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
>>> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>>> instruction.
>>> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
>>> and
>>> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
>>> the
>>> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>>> participate
>>> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>>> concluded
>>> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
>>> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and
>>> loss
>>> of
>>> reading speed and comprehension.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
>>> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
>>> Braille."
>>> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
>>> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on
>>> reading
>>> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
>>> failure
>>> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced
>>> by
>>> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
>>> as
>>> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
>>> pointed
>>> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
>>> equate
>>> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
>>> by
>>> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
>>> The
>>> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
>>> do,
>>> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
>>> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>>> James-Beavers
>>> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
>>> forty-five
>>> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
>>> compensatory
>>> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
>>> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
>>> tutoring.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
>>> said:
>>> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and
>>> blind
>>> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
>>> years,
>>> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
>>> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
>>> when
>>> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
>>> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
>>> has
>>> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
>>> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
>>> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
>>> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
>>> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
>>> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
>>> in
>>> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
>>> which
>>> they deserve."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
>>> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged
>>> battle
>>> to
>>> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
>>> other
>>> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
>>> the
>>> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
>>> who
>>> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
>>> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>>> instruction
>>> for blind children."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
>>> of
>>> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of
>>> the
>>> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
>>> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
>>> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
>>> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ###
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
>>> the
>>> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
>>> the
>>> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
>>> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
>>> and
>>> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today
>>> and
>>> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the
>>> National
>>> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
>>> training
>>> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From chelseap08 at gmail.com  Tue May  8 03:48:43 2012
From: chelseap08 at gmail.com (Chelsea Page)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 22:48:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPad virses Pac Mate
Message-ID: <000001cd2ccd$77d6b510$67841f30$@gmail.com>

Hey!  I hope everyone is doing well on finals!  

I am wondering what people's experience with the Braille display has been.
Would you still use a Pac mate?  Or is the iPad totally accessible where you
can use apps such as a scientific calculator on it?

Thanks 


From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Tue May  8 02:57:27 2012
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 23:57:27 -0300
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
	NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local><003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com><001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com><2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DBCFD2EA805F481391EBAEFAAE9D7B7B@userPC>

I have been reading Braille sinse the age of 5.
Rania,

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:02 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

How old is the child?
I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
Any word on how old he is?
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I agree, how  sad.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loren
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.  Would
> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  Congrats to
> the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your child.
>
> Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
> Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
> To: Undisclosed recipients:
> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
> CONTACT:
>
> Chris Danielsen
>
> Director of Public Relations
>
> National Federation of the Blind
>
> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
> Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>
>
>
>
> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative and
> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number: 2011
> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
> Henry
> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
and
> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
> assistance
> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
comes
> on the heels of
>
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
> need
> Braille instruction receive it.
>
>
>
> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged print
> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods
> of
> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
> their
> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading, the
> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
> and
> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
reader,
> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act
> of
> 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
instruction.
> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity and
> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
> the
> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should participate
> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB concluded
> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss
> of
> reading speed and comprehension.
>
>
>
> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
> failure
> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
as
> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
pointed
> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
> equate
> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
by
> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
The
> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
> do,
> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge James-Beavers
> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
> forty-five
> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
> tutoring.
>
>
>
> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the years,
> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction when
> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
has
> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
in
> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
> which
> they deserve."
>
>
>
> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle
> to
> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
other
> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
the
> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
who
> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille instruction
> for blind children."
>
>
>
> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum of
> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of the
> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>
>
>
> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ###
>
>
>
>
>
> About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the
> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
the
> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and
> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the
> National
> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
training
> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
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net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
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>

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From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Tue May  8 02:58:26 2012
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 23:58:26 -0300
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
	NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOuqS+Bae+mp4tjkO-3Aq=NqCxwC3zzcrha7bSx_Fs8v+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local><003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com><001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com><2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC><CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com><CALAYQJD-cmw1YEOJ_SewED38v7-KHnHi_cdY9SEyMEvW-eo5=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuqS+Bae+mp4tjkO-3Aq=NqCxwC3zzcrha7bSx_Fs8v+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <571EC10928834F92A629FECF03776FA3@userPC>

Yes that is very sad.
Rania,

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 11:57 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Wow!
BTW, that's not okay!
He should have had Braille, from Kindergarten, on!
They always wait too late!
He's going to be 25, and still in high school, because he's got to catch up!
This is pathetic!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/7/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to
> resolve. What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children,
> these battles aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the
> first place. Parents capitulate to the professionals' insistence that
> their child doesn't need Braille, or they want to fight but don't have
> the time, energy or legal resources to stick it out.
> The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the
> denial of Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
> entrusted to promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just
> read a few weeks ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to
> provide her with Braille copies of the storybooks her classmates were
> given in school. Instead, the teacher thought it sufficient to give
> the child stuffed toys representing the characters in the stories. I
> can understand using toys to substitute for the pictures, but if the
> sighted kids are getting copies of the stories, why not give the exact
> same content to the blind child as well? I might add that in today's
> electronic world, and even before computers existed, transcribing a
> book for preschoolers is not difficult. And even in this case with the
> Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's decision
> not to provide Braille. If even the folks who are charged to teach us
> literacy don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a
> certified teacher of blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or
> who refuses to hold their students to competitive reading standards,
> is not deserving of that certificate.
> I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to
> bring about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille
> today and in the future.
> Arielle
>
> On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> How old is the child?
>> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
>> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
>> Any word on how old he is?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> I agree, how  sad.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Loren
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
>>> Would
>>> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  Congrats
>>> to
>>> the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your child.
>>>
>>> Loren Wakefield
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
>>> list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
>>> Jersey
>>> Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>>> To: Undisclosed recipients:
>>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>>> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> CONTACT:
>>>
>>> Chris Danielsen
>>>
>>> Director of Public Relations
>>>
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>
>>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>>
>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>>
>>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
>>> Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>>
>>> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
>>> and
>>> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
>>> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
>>> 2011
>>> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
>>> Henry
>>> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
>>> and
>>> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
>>> assistance
>>> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
>>> comes
>>> on the heels of
>>>
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
>>> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
>>> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
>>> need
>>> Braille instruction receive it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
>>> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
>>> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
>>> print
>>> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained
>>> periods
>>> of
>>> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
>>> their
>>> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
>>> the
>>> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
>>> and
>>> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
>>> reader,
>>> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
>>> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
>>> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement
>>> Act
>>> of
>>> 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle
>>> with
>>> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
>>> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>>> instruction.
>>> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
>>> and
>>> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
>>> the
>>> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>>> participate
>>> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>>> concluded
>>> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
>>> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and
>>> loss
>>> of
>>> reading speed and comprehension.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
>>> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
>>> Braille."
>>> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
>>> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on
>>> reading
>>> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
>>> failure
>>> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced
>>> by
>>> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
>>> as
>>> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
>>> pointed
>>> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
>>> equate
>>> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
>>> by
>>> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
>>> The
>>> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
>>> do,
>>> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
>>> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>>> James-Beavers
>>> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
>>> forty-five
>>> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
>>> compensatory
>>> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
>>> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
>>> tutoring.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
>>> said:
>>> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and
>>> blind
>>> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
>>> years,
>>> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
>>> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
>>> when
>>> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
>>> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
>>> has
>>> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
>>> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
>>> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
>>> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
>>> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
>>> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
>>> in
>>> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
>>> which
>>> they deserve."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
>>> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged
>>> battle
>>> to
>>> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
>>> other
>>> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
>>> the
>>> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
>>> who
>>> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
>>> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>>> instruction
>>> for blind children."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
>>> of
>>> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of
>>> the
>>> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
>>> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
>>> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
>>> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ###
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
>>> the
>>> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
>>> the
>>> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
>>> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
>>> and
>>> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today
>>> and
>>> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the
>>> National
>>> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
>>> training
>>> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
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net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
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From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Tue May  8 02:59:47 2012
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2012 23:59:47 -0300
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
	NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJD-cmw1YEOJ_SewED38v7-KHnHi_cdY9SEyMEvW-eo5=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local><003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com><001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com><2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC><CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJD-cmw1YEOJ_SewED38v7-KHnHi_cdY9SEyMEvW-eo5=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <16F12A2C9BCF4D0ABD46B0891E6A8660@userPC>

Arielle,
I am shocked because I had Braille instruction from them when I was little
and all threw high school. I still live in nj and well I guess things
change.
Rania,

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Arielle Silverman
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 11:42 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to
resolve. What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children,
these battles aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the
first place. Parents capitulate to the professionals' insistence that
their child doesn't need Braille, or they want to fight but don't have
the time, energy or legal resources to stick it out.
The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the
denial of Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
entrusted to promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just
read a few weeks ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to
provide her with Braille copies of the storybooks her classmates were
given in school. Instead, the teacher thought it sufficient to give
the child stuffed toys representing the characters in the stories. I
can understand using toys to substitute for the pictures, but if the
sighted kids are getting copies of the stories, why not give the exact
same content to the blind child as well? I might add that in today's
electronic world, and even before computers existed, transcribing a
book for preschoolers is not difficult. And even in this case with the
Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's decision
not to provide Braille. If even the folks who are charged to teach us
literacy don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a
certified teacher of blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or
who refuses to hold their students to competitive reading standards,
is not deserving of that certificate.
I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to
bring about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille
today and in the future.
Arielle

On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> How old is the child?
> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
> Any word on how old he is?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> I agree, how  sad.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Loren
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
>> Would
>> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  Congrats to
>> the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your child.
>>
>> Loren Wakefield
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
>> Jersey
>> Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>> To: Undisclosed recipients:
>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>
>>
>>
>> CONTACT:
>>
>> Chris Danielsen
>>
>> Director of Public Relations
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind
>>
>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>
>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>
>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
>> Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
>> and
>> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
>> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
>> 2011
>> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
>> Henry
>> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
>> and
>> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
>> assistance
>> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
>> comes
>> on the heels of
>>
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
>> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
>> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
>> need
>> Braille instruction receive it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
>> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
>> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
>> print
>> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods
>> of
>> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
>> their
>> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
>> the
>> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
>> and
>> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
>> reader,
>> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
>> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
>> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act
>> of
>> 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
>> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
>> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>> instruction.
>> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
>> and
>> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
>> the
>> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>> participate
>> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>> concluded
>> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
>> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss
>> of
>> reading speed and comprehension.
>>
>>
>>
>> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
>> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
>> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
>> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
>> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
>> failure
>> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
>> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
>> as
>> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
>> pointed
>> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
>> equate
>> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
>> by
>> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
>> The
>> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
>> do,
>> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
>> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>> James-Beavers
>> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
>> forty-five
>> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
>> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
>> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
>> tutoring.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
>> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
>> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
>> years,
>> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
>> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
>> when
>> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
>> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
>> has
>> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
>> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
>> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
>> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
>> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
>> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
>> in
>> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
>> which
>> they deserve."
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
>> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle
>> to
>> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
>> other
>> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
>> the
>> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
>> who
>> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
>> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>> instruction
>> for blind children."
>>
>>
>>
>> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
>> of
>> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of the
>> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>>
>>
>>
>> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
>> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
>> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
>> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ###
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>
>>
>>
>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
>> the
>> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
>> the
>> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
>> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
>> and
>> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
>> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the
>> National
>> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
>> training
>> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
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ccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>

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m



From missheather at comcast.net  Tue May  8 17:45:51 2012
From: missheather at comcast.net (Heather Field)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 12:45:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
	NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local><003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com><001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com><2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0DD48D6EB8D24C12A3CAA954820E24FB@HeatherAcer>

It wasn't about his age. The said he could see too much to need braille. 
They said he could use print and that they would not agree to teach him 
braille.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

How old is the child?
I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
Any word on how old he is?
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I agree, how  sad.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loren
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.  Would
> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  Congrats to
> the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your child.
>
> Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
> Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
> To: Undisclosed recipients:
> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
> CONTACT:
>
> Chris Danielsen
>
> Director of Public Relations
>
> National Federation of the Blind
>
> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
> Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>
>
>
>
> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative and
> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number: 2011
> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
> Henry
> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading 
> and
> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
> assistance
> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB), 
> comes
> on the heels of
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
> need
> Braille instruction receive it.
>
>
>
> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged print
> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods
> of
> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
> their
> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading, the
> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
> and
> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print 
> reader,
> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act
> of
> 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille 
> instruction.
> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity and
> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
> the
> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should participate
> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB concluded
> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss
> of
> reading speed and comprehension.
>
>
>
> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
> failure
> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology 
> as
> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as 
> pointed
> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
> equate
> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text 
> by
> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading." 
> The
> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
> do,
> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge James-Beavers
> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
> forty-five
> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
> tutoring.
>
>
>
> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the years,
> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction when
> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge 
> has
> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment 
> in
> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
> which
> they deserve."
>
>
>
> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle
> to
> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that 
> other
> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank 
> the
> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts 
> who
> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille instruction
> for blind children."
>
>
>
> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum of
> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of the
> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>
>
>
> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ###
>
>
>
>
>
> About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the
> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in 
> the
> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and
> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the
> National
> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and 
> training
> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Tue May  8 17:52:08 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 12:52:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography
Message-ID: <61CFCA47564E49DABB728E7CC5EDF533@Gloria>

Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone has taken or are taking a world geography class? If so how do you handle maps? Can you tell me about other challenges you have had or are having with the class? Thanks

From arielle71 at gmail.com  Tue May  8 18:05:57 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 12:05:57 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <0DD48D6EB8D24C12A3CAA954820E24FB@HeatherAcer>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local>
	<003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com>
	<001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com>
	<2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<0DD48D6EB8D24C12A3CAA954820E24FB@HeatherAcer>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJAova8UfpXwe0kNxYBMC0W0KLCP88r2oOkDhtps8UmNig@mail.gmail.com>

Rania, are you totally blind?
Often, commissions and schools for the blind understand the need to
teach Braille to totally blind kids but they don't think it's
"necessary" for blind kids who have some vision.
I too learned Braille in preschool because I am totally blind. My
classmates in the preschool for the blind that I attended who had some
vision were not taught Braille, but were taught large print instead.
In many ways I feel incredibly lucky that my eye condition progressed
to the point of making me totally blind, because I cringe to think of
what kind of education I would have not gotten if I had had just
enough sight to get by.
Arielle

On 5/8/12, Heather Field <missheather at comcast.net> wrote:
> It wasn't about his age. The said he could see too much to need braille.
> They said he could use print and that they would not agree to teach him
> braille.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:01 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> How old is the child?
> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
> Any word on how old he is?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> I agree, how  sad.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Loren
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
>> Would
>> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  Congrats to
>> the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your child.
>>
>> Loren Wakefield
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
>> Jersey
>> Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>> To: Undisclosed recipients:
>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>
>>
>>
>> CONTACT:
>>
>> Chris Danielsen
>>
>> Director of Public Relations
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind
>>
>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>
>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>
>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
>> Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
>> and
>> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
>> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
>> 2011
>> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
>> Henry
>> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
>> and
>> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
>> assistance
>> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
>> comes
>> on the heels of
>> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
>> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
>> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
>> need
>> Braille instruction receive it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
>> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
>> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
>> print
>> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods
>> of
>> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
>> their
>> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
>> the
>> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
>> and
>> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
>> reader,
>> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
>> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
>> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act
>> of
>> 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
>> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
>> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>> instruction.
>> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
>> and
>> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
>> the
>> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>> participate
>> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>> concluded
>> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
>> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss
>> of
>> reading speed and comprehension.
>>
>>
>>
>> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
>> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
>> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
>> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
>> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
>> failure
>> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
>> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
>> as
>> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
>> pointed
>> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
>> equate
>> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
>> by
>> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
>> The
>> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
>> do,
>> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
>> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>> James-Beavers
>> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
>> forty-five
>> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
>> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
>> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
>> tutoring.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
>> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
>> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
>> years,
>> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
>> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
>> when
>> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
>> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
>> has
>> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
>> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
>> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
>> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
>> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
>> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
>> in
>> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
>> which
>> they deserve."
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
>> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle
>> to
>> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
>> other
>> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
>> the
>> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
>> who
>> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
>> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>> instruction
>> for blind children."
>>
>>
>>
>> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
>> of
>> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of the
>> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>>
>>
>>
>> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
>> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
>> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
>> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ###
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>
>>
>>
>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
>> the
>> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
>> the
>> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
>> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
>> and
>> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
>> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the
>> National
>> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
>> training
>> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue May  8 18:06:23 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 13:06:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <0DD48D6EB8D24C12A3CAA954820E24FB@HeatherAcer>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local>
	<003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com>
	<001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com>
	<2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<0DD48D6EB8D24C12A3CAA954820E24FB@HeatherAcer>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOv0Ngm96TuSrOXjo5dAY4797PYkUjUosonSRpoAP_mnUg@mail.gmail.com>

Hmmm!
Reminds me of the girl, that they forced to use a CCTV, until she was
in high school.
Sad!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/8/12, Heather Field <missheather at comcast.net> wrote:
> It wasn't about his age. The said he could see too much to need braille.
> They said he could use print and that they would not agree to teach him
> braille.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:01 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> How old is the child?
> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
> Any word on how old he is?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> I agree, how  sad.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Loren
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
>> Would
>> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  Congrats to
>> the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your child.
>>
>> Loren Wakefield
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
>> Jersey
>> Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>> To: Undisclosed recipients:
>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>
>>
>>
>> CONTACT:
>>
>> Chris Danielsen
>>
>> Director of Public Relations
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind
>>
>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>
>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>
>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
>> Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
>> and
>> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
>> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
>> 2011
>> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
>> Henry
>> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
>> and
>> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
>> assistance
>> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
>> comes
>> on the heels of
>> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
>> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
>> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
>> need
>> Braille instruction receive it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
>> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
>> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
>> print
>> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods
>> of
>> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
>> their
>> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
>> the
>> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
>> and
>> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
>> reader,
>> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
>> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
>> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act
>> of
>> 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
>> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
>> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>> instruction.
>> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
>> and
>> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
>> the
>> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>> participate
>> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>> concluded
>> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
>> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss
>> of
>> reading speed and comprehension.
>>
>>
>>
>> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
>> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
>> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
>> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
>> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
>> failure
>> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
>> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
>> as
>> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
>> pointed
>> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
>> equate
>> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
>> by
>> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
>> The
>> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
>> do,
>> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
>> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>> James-Beavers
>> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
>> forty-five
>> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
>> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
>> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
>> tutoring.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
>> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
>> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
>> years,
>> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
>> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
>> when
>> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
>> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
>> has
>> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
>> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
>> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
>> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
>> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
>> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
>> in
>> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
>> which
>> they deserve."
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
>> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle
>> to
>> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
>> other
>> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
>> the
>> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
>> who
>> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
>> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>> instruction
>> for blind children."
>>
>>
>>
>> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
>> of
>> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of the
>> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>>
>>
>>
>> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
>> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
>> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
>> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ###
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>
>>
>>
>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
>> the
>> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
>> the
>> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
>> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
>> and
>> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
>> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the
>> National
>> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
>> training
>> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue May  8 18:14:04 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 13:14:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography
In-Reply-To: <61CFCA47564E49DABB728E7CC5EDF533@Gloria>
References: <61CFCA47564E49DABB728E7CC5EDF533@Gloria>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOuJN8apF7geDZOdfVJYX_YzvukDCQBycP9cWDZCMaCMWg@mail.gmail.com>

We didn't deal with maps, in my class.
Our instructor lectured, and used powerpoints.
Then, he gave us study guides, and a 50 question multiple choice test,
on what was on the study guide.
He's a college professor, that I had 2 years ago.
He also taught Western Civ, and American History.
He's one of my favorite instructors.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/8/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I was wondering if anyone has taken or are taking a world geography class?
> If so how do you handle maps? Can you tell me about other challenges you
> have had or are having with the class? Thanks
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Tue May  8 17:30:20 2012
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 14:30:20 -0300
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
	NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJAova8UfpXwe0kNxYBMC0W0KLCP88r2oOkDhtps8UmNig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local><003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com><001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com><2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC><CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com><0DD48D6EB8D24C12A3CAA954820E24FB@HeatherAcer>
	<CALAYQJAova8UfpXwe0kNxYBMC0W0KLCP88r2oOkDhtps8UmNig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18B31E5FCF7C4796892B31D0924A694C@userPC>



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Arielle Silverman
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 3:06 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Arielle, yes I
am.Rania, NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Rania, are you totally blind?
Often, commissions and schools for the blind understand the need to
teach Braille to totally blind kids but they don't think it's
"necessary" for blind kids who have some vision.
I too learned Braille in preschool because I am totally blind. My
classmates in the preschool for the blind that I attended who had some
vision were not taught Braille, but were taught large print instead.
In many ways I feel incredibly lucky that my eye condition progressed
to the point of making me totally blind, because I cringe to think of
what kind of education I would have not gotten if I had had just
enough sight to get by.
Arielle

On 5/8/12, Heather Field <missheather at comcast.net> wrote:
> It wasn't about his age. The said he could see too much to need braille.
> They said he could use print and that they would not agree to teach him
> braille.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:01 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> How old is the child?
> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
> Any word on how old he is?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> I agree, how  sad.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Loren
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
>> Would
>> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  Congrats to
>> the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your child.
>>
>> Loren Wakefield
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
>> Jersey
>> Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>> To: Undisclosed recipients:
>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>
>>
>>
>> CONTACT:
>>
>> Chris Danielsen
>>
>> Director of Public Relations
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind
>>
>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>
>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>
>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
>> Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
>> and
>> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
>> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
>> 2011
>> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
>> Henry
>> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
>> and
>> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
>> assistance
>> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
>> comes
>> on the heels of
>>
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
>> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
>> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
>> need
>> Braille instruction receive it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
>> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
>> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
>> print
>> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods
>> of
>> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
>> their
>> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
>> the
>> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
>> and
>> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
>> reader,
>> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
>> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
>> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act
>> of
>> 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
>> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
>> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>> instruction.
>> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
>> and
>> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
>> the
>> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>> participate
>> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>> concluded
>> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
>> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss
>> of
>> reading speed and comprehension.
>>
>>
>>
>> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
>> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
>> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
>> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
>> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
>> failure
>> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
>> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
>> as
>> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
>> pointed
>> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
>> equate
>> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
>> by
>> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
>> The
>> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
>> do,
>> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
>> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>> James-Beavers
>> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
>> forty-five
>> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
>> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
>> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
>> tutoring.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
>> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
>> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
>> years,
>> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
>> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
>> when
>> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
>> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
>> has
>> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
>> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
>> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
>> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
>> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
>> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
>> in
>> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
>> which
>> they deserve."
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
>> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle
>> to
>> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
>> other
>> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
>> the
>> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
>> who
>> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
>> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>> instruction
>> for blind children."
>>
>>
>>
>> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
>> of
>> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of the
>> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>>
>>
>>
>> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
>> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
>> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
>> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ###
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>
>>
>>
>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
>> the
>> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
>> the
>> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
>> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
>> and
>> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
>> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the
>> National
>> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
>> training
>> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
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>>
>>
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net
>>
>>
>>
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ccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From anthony at olivero.us  Tue May  8 19:00:37 2012
From: anthony at olivero.us (Tony Olivero)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 14:00:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPad virses Pac Mate
In-Reply-To: <000001cd2ccd$77d6b510$67841f30$@gmail.com>
References: <000001cd2ccd$77d6b510$67841f30$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALQ-rrMY+LYS1N9cMk4xa7hJB7CpJYhXxh-DZZdW1ixFdDk+VQ@mail.gmail.com>

Chelsea,

I can't speak to the accessibility of any calculators other than the
built in one, but here are a couple of things to consider when
deciding whether an iPad with Braille display is a good replacement
for you from a traditional notetaker:

* Do you do a lot of reading with your note taker? At least with
iBooks, you cannot continuously read the way we're familiar with on a
note taker. You have to change pages, then start at the top of the
page. (unless there has been a change I am unaware of)
* Does a slight delay between the phone unlocking and the Braille
display bother you? it doesn't matter to everyone, but some users find
the time between unlocking the phone and the display activating to be
longer than acceptable. Whereas the notetaker is an almost instat on.
* Do you intend to do a lot of editing? If so, you will notice a
difference when editing on the iDevice with a Braille display.
Commands users are used to (SPACE+123, SPACE+456, etc) function
differently on the iDevice.

I'm definitely not trying to persuade you in either direction. I
firmly believe there is no right solution for everyone and each device
has it's pros and cons. Just a couple things you may wish to consider.
Also, for information on accessible apps, check the directory at
http://www.applevis.com.

HTH,
Tony

On 5/7/12, Chelsea Page <chelseap08 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey!  I hope everyone is doing well on finals!
>
> I am wondering what people's experience with the Braille display has been.
> Would you still use a Pac mate?  Or is the iPad totally accessible where
> you
> can use apps such as a scientific calculator on it?
>
> Thanks
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us
>


From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Tue May  8 19:14:41 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 14:14:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography
References: <61CFCA47564E49DABB728E7CC5EDF533@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOuJN8apF7geDZOdfVJYX_YzvukDCQBycP9cWDZCMaCMWg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E824F1BCF3644155B3782181BCB51D5D@Gloria>

thanks
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 1:14 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] World Geography


> We didn't deal with maps, in my class.
> Our instructor lectured, and used powerpoints.
> Then, he gave us study guides, and a 50 question multiple choice test,
> on what was on the study guide.
> He's a college professor, that I had 2 years ago.
> He also taught Western Civ, and American History.
> He's one of my favorite instructors.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/8/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I was wondering if anyone has taken or are taking a world geography 
>> class?
>> If so how do you handle maps? Can you tell me about other challenges you
>> have had or are having with the class? Thanks
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com 



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue May  8 19:17:16 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 14:17:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <18B31E5FCF7C4796892B31D0924A694C@userPC>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local>
	<003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com>
	<001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com>
	<2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<0DD48D6EB8D24C12A3CAA954820E24FB@HeatherAcer>
	<CALAYQJAova8UfpXwe0kNxYBMC0W0KLCP88r2oOkDhtps8UmNig@mail.gmail.com>
	<18B31E5FCF7C4796892B31D0924A694C@userPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOv0aJwm8u96-UuKijY05ZFOc7=BXmMO7sKH_h_6U5K7VQ@mail.gmail.com>

Rania, did you intend for the message to be blank?
Just curious.
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/8/12, Rania Ismail CMT <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 3:06 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Arielle, yes I
> am.Rania, NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> Rania, are you totally blind?
> Often, commissions and schools for the blind understand the need to
> teach Braille to totally blind kids but they don't think it's
> "necessary" for blind kids who have some vision.
> I too learned Braille in preschool because I am totally blind. My
> classmates in the preschool for the blind that I attended who had some
> vision were not taught Braille, but were taught large print instead.
> In many ways I feel incredibly lucky that my eye condition progressed
> to the point of making me totally blind, because I cringe to think of
> what kind of education I would have not gotten if I had had just
> enough sight to get by.
> Arielle
>
> On 5/8/12, Heather Field <missheather at comcast.net> wrote:
>> It wasn't about his age. The said he could see too much to need braille.
>> They said he could use print and that they would not agree to teach him
>> braille.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:01 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>> How old is the child?
>> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
>> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
>> Any word on how old he is?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> I agree, how  sad.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Loren
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
>>> Would
>>> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  Congrats
>>> to
>>> the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your child.
>>>
>>> Loren Wakefield
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
>>> list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
>>> Jersey
>>> Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>>> To: Undisclosed recipients:
>>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>>> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> CONTACT:
>>>
>>> Chris Danielsen
>>>
>>> Director of Public Relations
>>>
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>
>>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>>
>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>>
>>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
>>> Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>>
>>> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
>>> and
>>> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
>>> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
>>> 2011
>>> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
>>> Henry
>>> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
>>> and
>>> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
>>> assistance
>>> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
>>> comes
>>> on the heels of
>>>
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
>>> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
>>> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
>>> need
>>> Braille instruction receive it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
>>> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
>>> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
>>> print
>>> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained
>>> periods
>>> of
>>> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
>>> their
>>> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
>>> the
>>> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
>>> and
>>> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
>>> reader,
>>> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
>>> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
>>> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement
>>> Act
>>> of
>>> 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle
>>> with
>>> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
>>> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>>> instruction.
>>> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
>>> and
>>> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
>>> the
>>> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>>> participate
>>> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>>> concluded
>>> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
>>> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and
>>> loss
>>> of
>>> reading speed and comprehension.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
>>> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
>>> Braille."
>>> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
>>> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on
>>> reading
>>> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
>>> failure
>>> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced
>>> by
>>> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
>>> as
>>> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
>>> pointed
>>> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
>>> equate
>>> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
>>> by
>>> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
>>> The
>>> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
>>> do,
>>> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
>>> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>>> James-Beavers
>>> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
>>> forty-five
>>> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
>>> compensatory
>>> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
>>> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
>>> tutoring.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
>>> said:
>>> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and
>>> blind
>>> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
>>> years,
>>> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
>>> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
>>> when
>>> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
>>> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
>>> has
>>> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
>>> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
>>> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
>>> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
>>> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
>>> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
>>> in
>>> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
>>> which
>>> they deserve."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
>>> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged
>>> battle
>>> to
>>> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
>>> other
>>> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
>>> the
>>> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
>>> who
>>> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
>>> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>>> instruction
>>> for blind children."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
>>> of
>>> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of
>>> the
>>> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
>>> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
>>> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
>>> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ###
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
>>> the
>>> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
>>> the
>>> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
>>> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
>>> and
>>> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today
>>> and
>>> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the
>>> National
>>> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
>>> training
>>> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
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> ccua.edu
>>>
>>
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue May  8 19:18:51 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 14:18:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography
In-Reply-To: <E824F1BCF3644155B3782181BCB51D5D@Gloria>
References: <61CFCA47564E49DABB728E7CC5EDF533@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOuJN8apF7geDZOdfVJYX_YzvukDCQBycP9cWDZCMaCMWg@mail.gmail.com>
	<E824F1BCF3644155B3782181BCB51D5D@Gloria>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOsm3aFbmY=NASmeOfDPBA8Vo=n22RLO4UZ1cVY-467T0g@mail.gmail.com>

Please note that not all professors are the same.
Ask your professor, before-hand, and see about getting tactile maps,
in case they do use them.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/8/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
> thanks
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 1:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] World Geography
>
>
>> We didn't deal with maps, in my class.
>> Our instructor lectured, and used powerpoints.
>> Then, he gave us study guides, and a 50 question multiple choice test,
>> on what was on the study guide.
>> He's a college professor, that I had 2 years ago.
>> He also taught Western Civ, and American History.
>> He's one of my favorite instructors.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/8/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I was wondering if anyone has taken or are taking a world geography
>>> class?
>>> If so how do you handle maps? Can you tell me about other challenges you
>>> have had or are having with the class? Thanks
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
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>
>
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>


From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Tue May  8 18:35:50 2012
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 15:35:50 -0300
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
	NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOv0aJwm8u96-UuKijY05ZFOc7=BXmMO7sKH_h_6U5K7VQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local><003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com><001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com><2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC><CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com><0DD48D6EB8D24C12A3CAA954820E24FB@HeatherAcer><CALAYQJAova8UfpXwe0kNxYBMC0W0KLCP88r2oOkDhtps8UmNig@mail.gmail.com><18B31E5FCF7C4796892B31D0924A694C@userPC>
	<CAO83KOv0aJwm8u96-UuKijY05ZFOc7=BXmMO7sKH_h_6U5K7VQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9CA7022BB3714ED3A289D1730E75F0DB@userPC>

No I didn't sorry about that. Thanks for letting me know.
I ment to answer Arielle's question. Yes I am totally blind.
Rania,

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:17 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Rania, did you intend for the message to be blank?
Just curious.
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/8/12, Rania Ismail CMT <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 3:06 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Arielle, yes I
> am.Rania, NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> Rania, are you totally blind?
> Often, commissions and schools for the blind understand the need to
> teach Braille to totally blind kids but they don't think it's
> "necessary" for blind kids who have some vision.
> I too learned Braille in preschool because I am totally blind. My
> classmates in the preschool for the blind that I attended who had some
> vision were not taught Braille, but were taught large print instead.
> In many ways I feel incredibly lucky that my eye condition progressed
> to the point of making me totally blind, because I cringe to think of
> what kind of education I would have not gotten if I had had just
> enough sight to get by.
> Arielle
>
> On 5/8/12, Heather Field <missheather at comcast.net> wrote:
>> It wasn't about his age. The said he could see too much to need braille.
>> They said he could use print and that they would not agree to teach him
>> braille.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:01 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>> How old is the child?
>> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
>> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
>> Any word on how old he is?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> I agree, how  sad.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Loren
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
>>> Would
>>> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  Congrats
>>> to
>>> the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your child.
>>>
>>> Loren Wakefield
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
>>> list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
>>> Jersey
>>> Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>>> To: Undisclosed recipients:
>>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>>> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> CONTACT:
>>>
>>> Chris Danielsen
>>>
>>> Director of Public Relations
>>>
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>
>>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>>
>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>>
>>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
>>> Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>>
>>> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
>>> and
>>> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
>>> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
>>> 2011
>>> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
>>> Henry
>>> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
>>> and
>>> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
>>> assistance
>>> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
>>> comes
>>> on the heels of
>>>
>
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
>>> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
>>> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
>>> need
>>> Braille instruction receive it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
>>> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
>>> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
>>> print
>>> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained
>>> periods
>>> of
>>> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
>>> their
>>> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
>>> the
>>> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
>>> and
>>> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
>>> reader,
>>> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
>>> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
>>> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement
>>> Act
>>> of
>>> 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle
>>> with
>>> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
>>> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>>> instruction.
>>> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
>>> and
>>> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
>>> the
>>> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>>> participate
>>> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>>> concluded
>>> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
>>> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and
>>> loss
>>> of
>>> reading speed and comprehension.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
>>> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
>>> Braille."
>>> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
>>> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on
>>> reading
>>> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
>>> failure
>>> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced
>>> by
>>> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
>>> as
>>> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
>>> pointed
>>> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
>>> equate
>>> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
>>> by
>>> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
>>> The
>>> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
>>> do,
>>> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
>>> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>>> James-Beavers
>>> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
>>> forty-five
>>> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
>>> compensatory
>>> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
>>> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
>>> tutoring.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
>>> said:
>>> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and
>>> blind
>>> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
>>> years,
>>> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
>>> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
>>> when
>>> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
>>> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
>>> has
>>> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
>>> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
>>> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
>>> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
>>> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
>>> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
>>> in
>>> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
>>> which
>>> they deserve."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
>>> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged
>>> battle
>>> to
>>> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
>>> other
>>> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
>>> the
>>> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
>>> who
>>> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
>>> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>>> instruction
>>> for blind children."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
>>> of
>>> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of
>>> the
>>> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
>>> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
>>> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
>>> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ###
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
>>> the
>>> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
>>> the
>>> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
>>> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
>>> and
>>> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today
>>> and
>>> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the
>>> National
>>> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
>>> training
>>> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
> net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p
> ccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
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>>
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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_______________________________________________
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m



From chelseap08 at gmail.com  Tue May  8 19:45:27 2012
From: chelseap08 at gmail.com (Chelsea Page)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 14:45:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPad virses Pac Mate
In-Reply-To: <CALQ-rrMY+LYS1N9cMk4xa7hJB7CpJYhXxh-DZZdW1ixFdDk+VQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <000001cd2ccd$77d6b510$67841f30$@gmail.com>
	<CALQ-rrMY+LYS1N9cMk4xa7hJB7CpJYhXxh-DZZdW1ixFdDk+VQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F264B520-80D8-4EB4-8472-1C421B21AC66@gmail.com>

Thanks Tony    

Sent from my iPhone

On May 8, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:

> Chelsea,
> 
> I can't speak to the accessibility of any calculators other than the
> built in one, but here are a couple of things to consider when
> deciding whether an iPad with Braille display is a good replacement
> for you from a traditional notetaker:
> 
> * Do you do a lot of reading with your note taker? At least with
> iBooks, you cannot continuously read the way we're familiar with on a
> note taker. You have to change pages, then start at the top of the
> page. (unless there has been a change I am unaware of)
> * Does a slight delay between the phone unlocking and the Braille
> display bother you? it doesn't matter to everyone, but some users find
> the time between unlocking the phone and the display activating to be
> longer than acceptable. Whereas the notetaker is an almost instat on.
> * Do you intend to do a lot of editing? If so, you will notice a
> difference when editing on the iDevice with a Braille display.
> Commands users are used to (SPACE+123, SPACE+456, etc) function
> differently on the iDevice.
> 
> I'm definitely not trying to persuade you in either direction. I
> firmly believe there is no right solution for everyone and each device
> has it's pros and cons. Just a couple things you may wish to consider.
> Also, for information on accessible apps, check the directory at
> http://www.applevis.com.
> 
> HTH,
> Tony
> 
> On 5/7/12, Chelsea Page <chelseap08 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey!  I hope everyone is doing well on finals!
>> 
>> I am wondering what people's experience with the Braille display has been.
>> Would you still use a Pac mate?  Or is the iPad totally accessible where
>> you
>> can use apps such as a scientific calculator on it?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmail.com


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Tue May  8 20:49:17 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 15:49:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
Message-ID: <4fa986f1.0f0c650a.28cb.1a34@mx.google.com>

Hi y'all,

Recently, I got the Blio app, which is an acessible Ebook reader 
for the iPhone. Yeserday, I bought a book from the Blio store and 
attempted to rea it only to find that the text-to-speech feature 
was not enabled. I doubt there is any way to manually enable this 
feature, but if there is, would you please let me know? What 
troubled me about this was that nowhere in the product details 
did it tell me whether text-to-speech was enabled or not. And 
just out of curiosity, why would text-to-speech not be enabled on 
a website specifically designed for blind users?
Yours,
Sophie Trist


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Tue May  8 21:03:43 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 16:03:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind ApplaudsNewJersey
	Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
Message-ID: <4fa98a53.ecb3ec0a.6838.1e17@mx.google.com>

I've heard of that far too often in my state as well. Many people 
whom I know did not get a decent braille education until they 
went to LCB for training. It's sad but true. Hopefully that will 
begin to change.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Heather Field" <missheather at comcast.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 12:45:51 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
ApplaudsNewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

It wasn't about his age. The said he could see too much to need 
braille.
They said he could use print and that they would not agree to 
teach him
braille.

-----Original Message-----
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

How old is the child?
I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
Any word on how old he is?
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
 I agree, how  sad.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Loren
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
 To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
 blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this 
decision.  Would
 anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  
Congrats to
 the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for 
your child.

 Loren Wakefield



 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
 Behalf
 Of Chris Nusbaum
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
 To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students 
mailing
 list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
New Jersey
 Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





 From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
 To: Undisclosed recipients:
 Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey 
Ruling on
 Braille Instruction for Blind Child



 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



 CONTACT:

 Chris Danielsen

 Director of Public Relations

 National Federation of the Blind

 (410) 659-9314, extension 2330

 (410) 262-1281 (Cell)

 <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




 National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on 
Braille
 Instruction for Blind Child


 After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille 
Instruction




 Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year 
administrative and
 legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport 
Board of
 Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket 
number: 2011
 17218) from an administrative law judge that their 
eleven-year-old son
 Henry
 "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the 
reading
 and
 writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with 
the
 assistance
 of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  
(NFB),
 comes
 on the heels of
 
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
Duncan%20re
 %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging 
the
 Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind 
children who
 need
 Braille instruction receive it.



 Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of 
their son,
 Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to 
albinism and
 nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read 
enlarged print
 for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for 
sustained periods
 of
 time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school 
officials that
 their
 son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty 
reading, the
 school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for 
the Blind
 and
 Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient 
print
 reader,
 notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource 
room for
 language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due 
process
 provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education 
Improvement Act
 of
 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely 
struggle with
 his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was 
unable to
 convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
 instruction.
 She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same 
quantity and
 quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the 
school and
 the
 commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should 
participate
 in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB 
concluded
 after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for 
extended
 periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, 
and loss
 of
 reading speed and comprehension.



 In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found 
that the
 school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against 
Braille."
 She found that the school board and the commission had failed to 
assess
 Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead 
on reading
 assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's 
alleged
 failure
 to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was 
unconvinced by
 the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio 
technology
 as
 reading demands increased through his school years, noting that 
"as
 pointed
 out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening 
does not
 equate
 to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of 
comprehending text
 by
 passively listening, even if one is following along with the 
reading."
 The
 order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on 
them to
 do,
 which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. 
meaningful
 educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge 
James-Beavers
 ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction 
for
 forty-five
 minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide 
compensatory
 instruction because of the three years that Hank was not 
provided with
 Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer 
programs or
 tutoring.



 Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the 
Blind, said:
 "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children 
and blind
 adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over 
the years,
 the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued 
that blind
 children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille 
instruction when
 it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and 
comprehensive
 examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an 
independent judge
 has
 confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency 
officials
 across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit 
to giving
 blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for 
the vast
 majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The 
National
 Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families 
like the
 Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational 
establishment
 in
 obtaining the equal education to which their children are 
entitled and
 which
 they deserve."



 Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with 
this
 ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a 
prolonged battle
 to
 achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes 
that
 other
 parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  
I thank
 the
 National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and 
experts
 who
 came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and 
publicly
 advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille 
instruction
 for blind children."



 The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon 
Krevor-Weisbaum of
 the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. 
Wesler of the
 Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



 For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, 
please
 visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information 
about
 Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please 
visit
 www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







 ###





 About the National Federation of the Blind



 With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the 
Blind is the
 largest and most influential membership organization of blind 
people in
 the
 United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through 
advocacy,
 education, research, technology, and programs encouraging 
independence and
 self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field 
today and
 the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened 
the
 National
 Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research 
and
 training
 center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Tue May  8 21:06:16 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 16:06:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography
Message-ID: <4fa98aec.0e55650a.3f40.1e96@mx.google.com>

Gloria, I am a freshman in high school and as such have taken a 
World Geography course this year. I can't speak for your teacher, 
but the course I took mainly focused on things such as culture, 
economy, and current events happening in places around the world.
If you are going to take this class next year, I suggest you ask 
your teacher if she is a big map user. I hope she isn't, for your 
sake. I'm sorry I can't help you more than that. But I think it's 
an individual teacher thing. It's about how far your teacher will 
go to adapt your needs.
 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gloria G" <gloria.graves at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 12:52:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography

Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone has taken or are taking a world 
geography class? If so how do you handle maps? Can you tell me 
about other challenges you have had or are having with the class? 
Thanks
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
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From jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com  Tue May  8 21:53:15 2012
From: jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:53:15 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
In-Reply-To: <4fa986f1.0f0c650a.28cb.1a34@mx.google.com>
References: <4fa986f1.0f0c650a.28cb.1a34@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <A29FA10B-0666-4AFC-B379-D9B4474F764C@gmail.com>

Interesting.
I saw some books on the site version that do say they have "text-to-speech enabled" so it should've been there somewhere.
As far as why it would've been disabled,
I think its because that's a decision authors/publishers make, and I think, legally, the company, in this case KNFB can't force them to do that.



On May 8, 2012, at 4:49 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:

> Hi y'all,
> 
> Recently, I got the Blio app, which is an acessible Ebook reader for the iPhone. Yeserday, I bought a book from the Blio store and attempted to rea it only to find that the text-to-speech feature was not enabled. I doubt there is any way to manually enable this feature, but if there is, would you please let me know? What troubled me about this was that nowhere in the product details did it tell me whether text-to-speech was enabled or not. And just out of curiosity, why would text-to-speech not be enabled on a website specifically designed for blind users?
> Yours,
> Sophie Trist
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorge.paez1994%40gmail.com



From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Tue May  8 22:00:35 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:00:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
In-Reply-To: <A29FA10B-0666-4AFC-B379-D9B4474F764C@gmail.com>
References: <4fa986f1.0f0c650a.28cb.1a34@mx.google.com>
	<A29FA10B-0666-4AFC-B379-D9B4474F764C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <776F37CC-5BBE-40FB-9F5D-8AC0FC52949A@gmail.com>

I know, I just don't see why they would choose to disable it. Maybe it costs more or something.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 8, 2012, at 4:53 PM, Jorge Paez <jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Interesting.
> I saw some books on the site version that do say they have "text-to-speech enabled" so it should've been there somewhere.
> As far as why it would've been disabled,
> I think its because that's a decision authors/publishers make, and I think, legally, the company, in this case KNFB can't force them to do that.
> 
> 
> 
> On May 8, 2012, at 4:49 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
> 
>> Hi y'all,
>> 
>> Recently, I got the Blio app, which is an acessible Ebook reader for the iPhone. Yeserday, I bought a book from the Blio store and attempted to rea it only to find that the text-to-speech feature was not enabled. I doubt there is any way to manually enable this feature, but if there is, would you please let me know? What troubled me about this was that nowhere in the product details did it tell me whether text-to-speech was enabled or not. And just out of curiosity, why would text-to-speech not be enabled on a website specifically designed for blind users?
>> Yours,
>> Sophie Trist
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorge.paez1994%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue May  8 22:20:47 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 17:20:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind ApplaudsNewJersey
 Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <4fa98a53.ecb3ec0a.6838.1e17@mx.google.com>
References: <4fa98a53.ecb3ec0a.6838.1e17@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvO-yb3Quo6UpytPw6ww4o0Tiva_xGytMupq7hJ2GVZ5g@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, it will!
If the bill passes, that my senator helped to put together, all blind
students will be required to have the best Braille education possible.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/8/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've heard of that far too often in my state as well. Many people
> whom I know did not get a decent braille education until they
> went to LCB for training. It's sad but true. Hopefully that will
> begin to change.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Heather Field" <missheather at comcast.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 12:45:51 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
> ApplaudsNewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> It wasn't about his age. The said he could see too much to need
> braille.
> They said he could use print and that they would not agree to
> teach him
> braille.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:01 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
> Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> How old is the child?
> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
> Any word on how old he is?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>  I agree, how  sad.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Loren
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>  To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
> Applauds
>  NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>  It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this
> decision.  Would
>  anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
> Congrats to
>  the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for
> your child.
>
>  Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>  Behalf
>  Of Chris Nusbaum
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>  To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
> mailing
>  list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>  Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> New Jersey
>  Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>
>
>  From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>  To: Undisclosed recipients:
>  Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
> Ruling on
>  Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>  FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
>  CONTACT:
>
>  Chris Danielsen
>
>  Director of Public Relations
>
>  National Federation of the Blind
>
>  (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
>  (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
>  <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
>  National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
> Braille
>  Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>  After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
> Instruction
>
>
>
>
>  Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
> administrative and
>  legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
> Board of
>  Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
> number: 2011
>  17218) from an administrative law judge that their
> eleven-year-old son
>  Henry
>  "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
> reading
>  and
>  writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
> the
>  assistance
>  of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>
> (NFB),
>  comes
>  on the heels of
>
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
> Duncan%20re
>  %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging
> the
>  Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
> children who
>  need
>  Braille instruction receive it.
>
>
>
>  Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
> their son,
>  Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
> albinism and
>  nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
> enlarged print
>  for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
> sustained periods
>  of
>  time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
> officials that
>  their
>  son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
> reading, the
>  school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
> the Blind
>  and
>  Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
> print
>  reader,
>  notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
> room for
>  language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
> process
>  provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
> Improvement Act
>  of
>  2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
> struggle with
>  his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
> unable to
>  convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>  instruction.
>  She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
> quantity and
>  quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
> school and
>  the
>  commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
> participate
>  in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
> concluded
>  after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
> extended
>  periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue,
> and loss
>  of
>  reading speed and comprehension.
>
>
>
>  In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
> that the
>  school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
> Braille."
>  She found that the school board and the commission had failed to
> assess
>  Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
> on reading
>  assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
> alleged
>  failure
>  to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
> unconvinced by
>  the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
> technology
>  as
>  reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
> "as
>  pointed
>  out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
> does not
>  equate
>  to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
> comprehending text
>  by
>  passively listening, even if one is following along with the
> reading."
>  The
>  order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on
> them to
>  do,
>  which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
> meaningful
>  educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
> James-Beavers
>  ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
> for
>  forty-five
>  minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
> compensatory
>  instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
> provided with
>  Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
> programs or
>  tutoring.
>
>
>
>  Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
> Blind, said:
>  "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
> and blind
>  adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
> the years,
>  the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
> that blind
>  children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
> instruction when
>  it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
> comprehensive
>  examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
> independent judge
>  has
>  confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
> officials
>  across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
> to giving
>  blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
> the vast
>  majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
> National
>  Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
> like the
>  Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
> establishment
>  in
>  obtaining the equal education to which their children are
> entitled and
>  which
>  they deserve."
>
>
>
>  Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with
> this
>  ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
> prolonged battle
>  to
>  achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes
> that
>  other
>  parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
> I thank
>  the
>  National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
> experts
>  who
>  came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
> publicly
>  advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
> instruction
>  for blind children."
>
>
>
>  The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
> Krevor-Weisbaum of
>  the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
> Wesler of the
>  Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>
>
>
>  For more information about the National Federation of the Blind,
> please
>  visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
> about
>  Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
> visit
>  www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ###
>
>
>
>
>
>  About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
>  With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
> Blind is the
>  largest and most influential membership organization of blind
> people in
>  the
>  United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through
> advocacy,
>  education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
> independence and
>  self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field
> today and
>  the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened
> the
>  National
>  Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
> and
>  training
>  center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40
> mchsi.com
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
> 0earthlink.net
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
> 0students.pccua.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%4
> 0comcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue May  8 23:55:59 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 19:55:59 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind ApplaudsNewJersey
	Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOvO-yb3Quo6UpytPw6ww4o0Tiva_xGytMupq7hJ2GVZ5g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4fa98a53.ecb3ec0a.6838.1e17@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOvO-yb3Quo6UpytPw6ww4o0Tiva_xGytMupq7hJ2GVZ5g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001201cd2d76$1ee11230$5ca33690$@gmail.com>

Just a clarification: that's not a bill, that's a letter.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 6:21 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind ApplaudsNewJersey
Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Oh, it will!
If the bill passes, that my senator helped to put together, all blind
students will be required to have the best Braille education possible.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/8/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've heard of that far too often in my state as well. Many people whom 
> I know did not get a decent braille education until they went to LCB 
> for training. It's sad but true. Hopefully that will begin to change.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Heather Field" <missheather at comcast.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 12:45:51 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
> ApplaudsNewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> It wasn't about his age. The said he could see too much to need 
> braille.
> They said he could use print and that they would not agree to teach 
> him braille.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:01 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> How old is the child?
> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
> Any word on how old he is?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>  I agree, how  sad.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Loren
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>  To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;  
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds  
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>  It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.  
> Would  anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
> Congrats to
>  the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your 
> child.
>
>  Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>  Behalf
>  Of Chris Nusbaum
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>  To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students 
> mailing  list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>  Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New 
> Jersey  Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>
>
>  From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>  To: Undisclosed recipients:
>  Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
> Ruling on
>  Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>  FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
>  CONTACT:
>
>  Chris Danielsen
>
>  Director of Public Relations
>
>  National Federation of the Blind
>
>  (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
>  (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
>  <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
>  National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
> Braille
>  Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>  After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
> Instruction
>
>
>
>
>  Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
> administrative and
>  legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
> Board of
>  Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
> number: 2011
>  17218) from an administrative law judge that their
> eleven-year-old son
>  Henry
>  "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
> reading
>  and
>  writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
> the
>  assistance
>  of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>
> (NFB),
>  comes
>  on the heels of
>
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
> Duncan%20re
>  %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging
> the
>  Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
> children who
>  need
>  Braille instruction receive it.
>
>
>
>  Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
> their son,
>  Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
> albinism and
>  nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
> enlarged print
>  for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
> sustained periods
>  of
>  time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
> officials that
>  their
>  son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
> reading, the
>  school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
> the Blind
>  and
>  Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
> print
>  reader,
>  notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
> room for
>  language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
> process
>  provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
> Improvement Act
>  of
>  2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
> struggle with
>  his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
> unable to
>  convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>  instruction.
>  She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
> quantity and
>  quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
> school and
>  the
>  commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
> participate
>  in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
> concluded
>  after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
> extended
>  periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue,
> and loss
>  of
>  reading speed and comprehension.
>
>
>
>  In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
> that the
>  school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
> Braille."
>  She found that the school board and the commission had failed to
> assess
>  Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
> on reading
>  assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
> alleged
>  failure
>  to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
> unconvinced by
>  the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
> technology
>  as
>  reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
> "as
>  pointed
>  out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
> does not
>  equate
>  to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
> comprehending text
>  by
>  passively listening, even if one is following along with the
> reading."
>  The
>  order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on
> them to
>  do,
>  which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
> meaningful
>  educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
> James-Beavers
>  ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
> for
>  forty-five
>  minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
> compensatory
>  instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
> provided with
>  Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
> programs or
>  tutoring.
>
>
>
>  Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
> Blind, said:
>  "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
> and blind
>  adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
> the years,
>  the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
> that blind
>  children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
> instruction when
>  it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
> comprehensive
>  examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
> independent judge
>  has
>  confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
> officials
>  across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
> to giving
>  blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
> the vast
>  majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
> National
>  Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
> like the
>  Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
> establishment
>  in
>  obtaining the equal education to which their children are
> entitled and
>  which
>  they deserve."
>
>
>
>  Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with
> this
>  ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
> prolonged battle
>  to
>  achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes
> that
>  other
>  parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
> I thank
>  the
>  National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
> experts
>  who
>  came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
> publicly
>  advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
> instruction
>  for blind children."
>
>
>
>  The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
> Krevor-Weisbaum of
>  the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
> Wesler of the
>  Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>
>
>
>  For more information about the National Federation of the Blind,
> please
>  visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
> about
>  Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
> visit
>  www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ###
>
>
>
>
>
>  About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
>  With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
> Blind is the
>  largest and most influential membership organization of blind
> people in
>  the
>  United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through
> advocacy,
>  education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
> independence and
>  self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field
> today and
>  the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened
> the
>  National
>  Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
> and
>  training
>  center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40
> mchsi.com
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
> 0earthlink.net
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
> 0students.pccua.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%4
> 0comcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p
ccua.edu
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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om



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed May  9 00:00:23 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:00:23 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
	ApplaudsNewJersey	Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <4fa98a53.ecb3ec0a.6838.1e17@mx.google.com>
References: <4fa98a53.ecb3ec0a.6838.1e17@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <001301cd2d76$bc6e79c0$354b6d40$@gmail.com>

Well, with the NFB working as hard as we are on this issue, I feel confident
that the tide will begin to turn! We just need to keep at it!

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Sophie Trist
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 5:04 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind ApplaudsNewJersey
Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

I've heard of that far too often in my state as well. Many people whom I
know did not get a decent braille education until they went to LCB for
training. It's sad but true. Hopefully that will begin to change.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Heather Field" <missheather at comcast.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 12:45:51 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind ApplaudsNewJersey
Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

It wasn't about his age. The said he could see too much to need braille.
They said he could use print and that they would not agree to teach him
braille.

-----Original Message-----
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

How old is the child?
I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
Any word on how old he is?
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
 I agree, how  sad.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Loren
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
 To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.  Would
anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  
Congrats to
 the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your child.

 Loren Wakefield



 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
 Behalf
 Of Chris Nusbaum
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
 To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





 From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
 To: Undisclosed recipients:
 Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
Braille Instruction for Blind Child



 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



 CONTACT:

 Chris Danielsen

 Director of Public Relations

 National Federation of the Blind

 (410) 659-9314, extension 2330

 (410) 262-1281 (Cell)

 <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




 National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on 
Braille
 Instruction for Blind Child


 After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille 
Instruction




 Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year 
administrative and
 legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport 
Board of
 Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket 
number: 2011
 17218) from an administrative law judge that their 
eleven-year-old son
 Henry
 "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the 
reading
 and
 writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with 
the
 assistance
 of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  
(NFB),
 comes
 on the heels of
 
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
Duncan%20re
 %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging 
the
 Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind 
children who
 need
 Braille instruction receive it.



 Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of 
their son,
 Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to 
albinism and
 nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read 
enlarged print
 for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for 
sustained periods
 of
 time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school 
officials that
 their
 son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty 
reading, the
 school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for 
the Blind
 and
 Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient 
print
 reader,
 notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource 
room for
 language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due 
process
 provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education 
Improvement Act
 of
 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely 
struggle with
 his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was 
unable to
 convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
 instruction.
 She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same 
quantity and
 quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the 
school and
 the
 commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should 
participate
 in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB 
concluded
 after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for 
extended
 periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, 
and loss
 of
 reading speed and comprehension.



 In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found 
that the
 school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against 
Braille."
 She found that the school board and the commission had failed to 
assess
 Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead 
on reading
 assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's 
alleged
 failure
 to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was 
unconvinced by
 the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio 
technology
 as
 reading demands increased through his school years, noting that 
"as
 pointed
 out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening 
does not
 equate
 to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of 
comprehending text
 by
 passively listening, even if one is following along with the 
reading."
 The
 order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on 
them to
 do,
 which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. 
meaningful
 educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge 
James-Beavers
 ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction 
for
 forty-five
 minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide 
compensatory
 instruction because of the three years that Hank was not 
provided with
 Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer 
programs or
 tutoring.



 Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the 
Blind, said:
 "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children 
and blind
 adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over 
the years,
 the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued 
that blind
 children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille 
instruction when
 it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and 
comprehensive
 examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an 
independent judge
 has
 confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency 
officials
 across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit 
to giving
 blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for 
the vast
 majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The 
National
 Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families 
like the
 Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational 
establishment
 in
 obtaining the equal education to which their children are 
entitled and
 which
 they deserve."



 Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with 
this
 ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a 
prolonged battle
 to
 achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes 
that
 other
 parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  
I thank
 the
 National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and 
experts
 who
 came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and 
publicly
 advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille 
instruction
 for blind children."



 The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon 
Krevor-Weisbaum of
 the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. 
Wesler of the
 Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



 For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, 
please
 visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information 
about
 Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please 
visit
 www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







 ###





 About the National Federation of the Blind



 With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the 
Blind is the
 largest and most influential membership organization of blind 
people in
 the
 United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through 
advocacy,
 education, research, technology, and programs encouraging 
independence and
 self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field 
today and
 the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened 
the
 National
 Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research 
and
 training
 center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



 _______________________________________________
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed May  9 00:02:28 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:02:28 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
In-Reply-To: <4fa986f1.0f0c650a.28cb.1a34@mx.google.com>
References: <4fa986f1.0f0c650a.28cb.1a34@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <001401cd2d77$06b648a0$1422d9e0$@gmail.com>

Hi Sophie,

Hmm... I'm not sure. Would you be able to just use VoiceOver to read it?

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Sophie Trist
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:49 PM
To: nabs
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio

Hi y'all,

Recently, I got the Blio app, which is an acessible Ebook reader for the
iPhone. Yeserday, I bought a book from the Blio store and attempted to rea
it only to find that the text-to-speech feature was not enabled. I doubt
there is any way to manually enable this feature, but if there is, would you
please let me know? What troubled me about this was that nowhere in the
product details did it tell me whether text-to-speech was enabled or not.
And just out of curiosity, why would text-to-speech not be enabled on a
website specifically designed for blind users?
Yours,
Sophie Trist

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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed May  9 00:22:55 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:22:55 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
	NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJAova8UfpXwe0kNxYBMC0W0KLCP88r2oOkDhtps8UmNig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local>	<003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com>	<001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com>	<2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC>	<CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com>	<0DD48D6EB8D24C12A3CAA954820E24FB@HeatherAcer>
	<CALAYQJAova8UfpXwe0kNxYBMC0W0KLCP88r2oOkDhtps8UmNig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001601cd2d79$e22041f0$a660c5d0$@gmail.com>

I agree! I was born totally blind due to a condition called biretinal
vitrius hemeraging, which was a result of my premature birth. I consider
myself very lucky to be born totally blind, as I was able to learn Braille
at the same time my sighted classmates were learning print.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Arielle Silverman
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 2:06 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Rania, are you totally blind?
Often, commissions and schools for the blind understand the need to teach
Braille to totally blind kids but they don't think it's "necessary" for
blind kids who have some vision.
I too learned Braille in preschool because I am totally blind. My classmates
in the preschool for the blind that I attended who had some vision were not
taught Braille, but were taught large print instead.
In many ways I feel incredibly lucky that my eye condition progressed to the
point of making me totally blind, because I cringe to think of what kind of
education I would have not gotten if I had had just enough sight to get by.
Arielle

On 5/8/12, Heather Field <missheather at comcast.net> wrote:
> It wasn't about his age. The said he could see too much to need braille.
> They said he could use print and that they would not agree to teach 
> him braille.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:01 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> How old is the child?
> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
> Any word on how old he is?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> I agree, how  sad.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Loren
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ; 
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
>> Would
>> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  
>> Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for
your child.
>>
>> Loren Wakefield
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students 
>> mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New 
>> Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>> To: Undisclosed recipients:
>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>
>>
>>
>> CONTACT:
>>
>> Chris Danielsen
>>
>> Director of Public Relations
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind
>>
>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>
>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>
>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
>> Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
>> and
>> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
>> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
>> 2011
>> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
>> Henry
>> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
>> and
>> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
>> assistance
>> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
>> comes
>> on the heels of
>>
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
>> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
>> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
>> need
>> Braille instruction receive it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
>> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
>> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
>> print
>> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods
>> of
>> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
>> their
>> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
>> the
>> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
>> and
>> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
>> reader,
>> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
>> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
>> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act
>> of
>> 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
>> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
>> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>> instruction.
>> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
>> and
>> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
>> the
>> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>> participate
>> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>> concluded
>> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
>> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss
>> of
>> reading speed and comprehension.
>>
>>
>>
>> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
>> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
>> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
>> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
>> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
>> failure
>> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
>> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
>> as
>> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
>> pointed
>> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
>> equate
>> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
>> by
>> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
>> The
>> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
>> do,
>> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
>> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>> James-Beavers
>> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
>> forty-five
>> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
>> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
>> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
>> tutoring.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
>> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
>> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
>> years,
>> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
>> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
>> when
>> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
>> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
>> has
>> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
>> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
>> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
>> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
>> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
>> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
>> in
>> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
>> which
>> they deserve."
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
>> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle
>> to
>> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
>> other
>> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
>> the
>> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
>> who
>> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
>> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>> instruction
>> for blind children."
>>
>>
>>
>> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
>> of
>> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of the
>> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>>
>>
>>
>> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
>> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
>> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
>> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ###
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>
>>
>>
>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
>> the
>> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
>> the
>> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
>> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
>> and
>> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
>> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the
>> National
>> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
>> training
>> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed May  9 00:41:41 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:41:41 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
	NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJD-cmw1YEOJ_SewED38v7-KHnHi_cdY9SEyMEvW-eo5=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local>	<003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com>	<001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com>	<2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC>	<CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJD-cmw1YEOJ_SewED38v7-KHnHi_cdY9SEyMEvW-eo5=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002601cd2d7c$80fb4d40$82f1e7c0$@gmail.com>

A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was actually
having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, who asked me
whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of audio
technology. I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that happening, I
wouldn't want it. Why do I not see Braille going away? Because there are
enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent that from
happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary source of
reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in audio format,
although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes, isn't true
literacy. Braille is our form of literacy. Without Braille, we can't read or
write. This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or keep up with
our sighted peers. So, I think we definitely still need Braille because it
is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should get rid of
print too!

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Arielle Silverman
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to resolve.
What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, these battles
aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first place. Parents
capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child doesn't need
Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy or legal
resources to stick it out.
The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the denial of
Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people entrusted to
promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a few weeks
ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her with Braille
copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school. Instead, the
teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys representing
the characters in the stories. I can understand using toys to substitute for
the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the stories, why
not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I might add that
in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed, transcribing
a book for preschoolers is not difficult. And even in this case with the
Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's decision not to
provide Braille. If even the folks who are charged to teach us literacy
don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified teacher of
blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to hold their
students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of that
certificate.
I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to bring
about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille today and
in the future.
Arielle

On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> How old is the child?
> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
> Any word on how old he is?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> I agree, how  sad.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Loren
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ; 
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
>> Would
>> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  
>> Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for
your child.
>>
>> Loren Wakefield
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students 
>> mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New 
>> Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>> To: Undisclosed recipients:
>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>
>>
>>
>> CONTACT:
>>
>> Chris Danielsen
>>
>> Director of Public Relations
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind
>>
>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>
>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>
>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
>> Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
>> and
>> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
>> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
>> 2011
>> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
>> Henry
>> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
>> and
>> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
>> assistance
>> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
>> comes
>> on the heels of
>>
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
>> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
>> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
>> need
>> Braille instruction receive it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
>> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
>> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
>> print
>> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods
>> of
>> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
>> their
>> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
>> the
>> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
>> and
>> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
>> reader,
>> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
>> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
>> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act
>> of
>> 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
>> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
>> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>> instruction.
>> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
>> and
>> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
>> the
>> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>> participate
>> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>> concluded
>> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
>> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss
>> of
>> reading speed and comprehension.
>>
>>
>>
>> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
>> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
>> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
>> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
>> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
>> failure
>> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
>> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
>> as
>> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
>> pointed
>> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
>> equate
>> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
>> by
>> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
>> The
>> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
>> do,
>> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
>> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>> James-Beavers
>> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
>> forty-five
>> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
>> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
>> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
>> tutoring.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
>> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
>> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
>> years,
>> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
>> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
>> when
>> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
>> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
>> has
>> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
>> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
>> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
>> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
>> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
>> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
>> in
>> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
>> which
>> they deserve."
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
>> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle
>> to
>> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
>> other
>> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
>> the
>> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
>> who
>> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
>> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>> instruction
>> for blind children."
>>
>>
>>
>> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
>> of
>> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of the
>> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>>
>>
>>
>> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
>> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
>> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
>> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ###
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>
>>
>>
>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
>> the
>> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
>> the
>> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
>> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
>> and
>> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
>> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the
>> National
>> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
>> training
>> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
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net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
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ccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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om



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed May  9 00:42:56 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:42:56 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
	ApplaudsNewJersey	Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <4fa88535.2227b60a.240b.6c98@mx.google.com>
References: <4fa88535.2227b60a.240b.6c98@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <002701cd2d7c$afbfce30$0f3f6a90$@gmail.com>

I know I was a lot further along in my Braille learning when I was 11!

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Beth
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:30 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind ApplaudsNewJersey
Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

11.  He is only 11 years old, which is ok, but he could have been further
along than this.
Beth

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 7 May 2012 20:01:49 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind ApplaudsNewJersey
Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

How old is the child?
I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
Any word on how old he is?
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
 I agree, how  sad.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Loren
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
 To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.  Would
anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  
Congrats to
 the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your child.

 Loren Wakefield



 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
 Behalf
 Of Chris Nusbaum
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
 To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





 From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
 To: Undisclosed recipients:
 Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
Braille Instruction for Blind Child



 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



 CONTACT:

 Chris Danielsen

 Director of Public Relations

 National Federation of the Blind

 (410) 659-9314, extension 2330

 (410) 262-1281 (Cell)

 <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




 National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on 
Braille
 Instruction for Blind Child


 After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille 
Instruction




 Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year 
administrative and
 legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport 
Board of
 Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket 
number: 2011
 17218) from an administrative law judge that their 
eleven-year-old son
 Henry
 "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the 
reading and
 writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with 
the
 assistance
 of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  
(NFB), comes
 on the heels of
 
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
Duncan%20re
 %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging 
the
 Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind 
children who
 need
 Braille instruction receive it.



 Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of 
their son,
 Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to 
albinism and
 nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read 
enlarged print
 for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for 
sustained periods
 of
 time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school 
officials that
 their
 son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty 
reading, the
 school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for 
the Blind
 and
 Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient 
print reader,
 notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource 
room for
 language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due 
process
 provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education 
Improvement Act
 of
 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely 
struggle with
 his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was 
unable to
 convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille 
instruction.
 She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same 
quantity and
 quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the 
school and
 the
 commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should 
participate
 in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB 
concluded
 after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for 
extended
 periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, 
and loss
 of
 reading speed and comprehension.



 In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found 
that the
 school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against 
Braille."
 She found that the school board and the commission had failed to 
assess
 Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead 
on reading
 assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's 
alleged
 failure
 to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was 
unconvinced by
 the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio 
technology as
 reading demands increased through his school years, noting that 
"as pointed
 out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening 
does not
 equate
 to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of 
comprehending text by
 passively listening, even if one is following along with the 
reading."  The
 order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on 
them to
 do,
 which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. 
meaningful
 educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge 
James-Beavers
 ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction 
for
 forty-five
 minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide 
compensatory
 instruction because of the three years that Hank was not 
provided with
 Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer 
programs or
 tutoring.



 Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the 
Blind, said:
 "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children 
and blind
 adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over 
the years,
 the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued 
that blind
 children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille 
instruction when
 it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and 
comprehensive
 examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an 
independent judge has
 confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency 
officials
 across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit 
to giving
 blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for 
the vast
 majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The 
National
 Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families 
like the
 Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational 
establishment in
 obtaining the equal education to which their children are 
entitled and
 which
 they deserve."



 Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with 
this
 ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a 
prolonged battle
 to
 achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes 
that other
 parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  
I thank the
 National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and 
experts who
 came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and 
publicly
 advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille 
instruction
 for blind children."



 The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon 
Krevor-Weisbaum of
 the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. 
Wesler of the
 Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



 For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, 
please
 visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information 
about
 Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please 
visit
 www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







 ###





 About the National Federation of the Blind



 With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the 
Blind is the
 largest and most influential membership organization of blind 
people in the
 United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through 
advocacy,
 education, research, technology, and programs encouraging 
independence and
 self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field 
today and
 the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened 
the
 National
 Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research 
and training
 center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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 nabs-l:
 
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Wed May  9 00:46:26 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 19:46:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <002601cd2d7c$80fb4d40$82f1e7c0$@gmail.com>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local>
	<003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com>
	<001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com>
	<2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJD-cmw1YEOJ_SewED38v7-KHnHi_cdY9SEyMEvW-eo5=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<002601cd2d7c$80fb4d40$82f1e7c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOu4-44OG2tde9UWOmwGYEnm0xOkDA6iGDAVrNNAxkfMKQ@mail.gmail.com>

Chris!
I see NFB national president written all over you!
Keep up the good work!
I can't wait to see what happens with you, 50 years from now!
You will be a huge part of the NFB, on a national scale, in the future!
I don't have to be a prophet to say it, because judging by your posts
on these lists, the potential is there!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/8/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was actually
> having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, who asked me
> whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of audio
> technology. I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that happening, I
> wouldn't want it. Why do I not see Braille going away? Because there are
> enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent that from
> happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary source of
> reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in audio format,
> although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes, isn't true
> literacy. Braille is our form of literacy. Without Braille, we can't read
> or
> write. This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or keep up
> with
> our sighted peers. So, I think we definitely still need Braille because it
> is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should get rid of
> print too!
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to resolve.
> What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, these battles
> aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first place.
> Parents
> capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child doesn't need
> Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy or legal
> resources to stick it out.
> The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the denial
> of
> Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people entrusted to
> promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a few weeks
> ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her with Braille
> copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school. Instead, the
> teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys representing
> the characters in the stories. I can understand using toys to substitute
> for
> the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the stories,
> why
> not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I might add
> that
> in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed,
> transcribing
> a book for preschoolers is not difficult. And even in this case with the
> Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's decision not
> to
> provide Braille. If even the folks who are charged to teach us literacy
> don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified teacher of
> blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to hold their
> students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of that
> certificate.
> I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to bring
> about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille today and
> in the future.
> Arielle
>
> On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> How old is the child?
>> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
>> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
>> Any word on how old he is?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> I agree, how  sad.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Loren
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
>>> Would
>>> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
>>> Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for
> your child.
>>>
>>> Loren Wakefield
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
>>> mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
>>> Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>>> To: Undisclosed recipients:
>>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>>> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> CONTACT:
>>>
>>> Chris Danielsen
>>>
>>> Director of Public Relations
>>>
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>
>>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>>
>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>>
>>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
>>> Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>>
>>> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
>>> and
>>> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
>>> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
>>> 2011
>>> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
>>> Henry
>>> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
>>> and
>>> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
>>> assistance
>>> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
>>> comes
>>> on the heels of
>>>
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
>>> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
>>> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
>>> need
>>> Braille instruction receive it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
>>> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
>>> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
>>> print
>>> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained
>>> periods
>>> of
>>> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
>>> their
>>> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
>>> the
>>> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
>>> and
>>> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
>>> reader,
>>> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
>>> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
>>> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement
>>> Act
>>> of
>>> 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle
>>> with
>>> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
>>> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>>> instruction.
>>> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
>>> and
>>> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
>>> the
>>> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>>> participate
>>> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>>> concluded
>>> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
>>> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and
>>> loss
>>> of
>>> reading speed and comprehension.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
>>> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
>>> Braille."
>>> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
>>> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on
>>> reading
>>> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
>>> failure
>>> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced
>>> by
>>> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
>>> as
>>> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
>>> pointed
>>> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
>>> equate
>>> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
>>> by
>>> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
>>> The
>>> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
>>> do,
>>> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
>>> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>>> James-Beavers
>>> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
>>> forty-five
>>> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
>>> compensatory
>>> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
>>> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
>>> tutoring.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
>>> said:
>>> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and
>>> blind
>>> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
>>> years,
>>> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
>>> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
>>> when
>>> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
>>> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
>>> has
>>> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
>>> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
>>> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
>>> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
>>> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
>>> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
>>> in
>>> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
>>> which
>>> they deserve."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
>>> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged
>>> battle
>>> to
>>> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
>>> other
>>> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
>>> the
>>> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
>>> who
>>> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
>>> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>>> instruction
>>> for blind children."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
>>> of
>>> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of
>>> the
>>> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
>>> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
>>> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
>>> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ###
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
>>> the
>>> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
>>> the
>>> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
>>> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
>>> and
>>> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today
>>> and
>>> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the
>>> National
>>> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
>>> training
>>> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
> net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p
> ccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Wed May  9 00:48:33 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 19:48:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind ApplaudsNewJersey
 Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <002701cd2d7c$afbfce30$0f3f6a90$@gmail.com>
References: <4fa88535.2227b60a.240b.6c98@mx.google.com>
	<002701cd2d7c$afbfce30$0f3f6a90$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOurj=osY9Fg2_cY03jGqs=4aKvDMruHQjju_OuA=Fq4PQ@mail.gmail.com>

As I said before, I was too!
I've been totally blind, since birth, due to Optic Nerve Hypoplasia.
They still shouldn't force blind students, who have low sight, (don't
want to say vision,) to learn large print.
They're blind, just the same, and should learn Braille!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/8/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> I know I was a lot further along in my Braille learning when I was 11!
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Beth
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:30 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
> ApplaudsNewJersey
> Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> 11.  He is only 11 years old, which is ok, but he could have been further
> along than this.
> Beth
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 7 May 2012 20:01:49 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
> ApplaudsNewJersey
> Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> How old is the child?
> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
> Any word on how old he is?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>  I agree, how  sad.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Loren
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>  To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>  It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.  Would
> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
> Congrats to
>  the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for your child.
>
>  Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>  Behalf
>  Of Chris Nusbaum
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>  To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>  Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
> Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>
>
>  From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>  To: Undisclosed recipients:
>  Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>  FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
>  CONTACT:
>
>  Chris Danielsen
>
>  Director of Public Relations
>
>  National Federation of the Blind
>
>  (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
>  (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
>  <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
>  National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
> Braille
>  Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>  After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
> Instruction
>
>
>
>
>  Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
> administrative and
>  legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
> Board of
>  Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
> number: 2011
>  17218) from an administrative law judge that their
> eleven-year-old son
>  Henry
>  "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
> reading and
>  writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
> the
>  assistance
>  of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>
> (NFB), comes
>  on the heels of
>
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
> Duncan%20re
>  %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging
> the
>  Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
> children who
>  need
>  Braille instruction receive it.
>
>
>
>  Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
> their son,
>  Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
> albinism and
>  nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
> enlarged print
>  for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
> sustained periods
>  of
>  time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
> officials that
>  their
>  son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
> reading, the
>  school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
> the Blind
>  and
>  Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
> print reader,
>  notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
> room for
>  language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
> process
>  provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
> Improvement Act
>  of
>  2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
> struggle with
>  his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
> unable to
>  convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
> instruction.
>  She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
> quantity and
>  quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
> school and
>  the
>  commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
> participate
>  in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
> concluded
>  after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
> extended
>  periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue,
> and loss
>  of
>  reading speed and comprehension.
>
>
>
>  In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
> that the
>  school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
> Braille."
>  She found that the school board and the commission had failed to
> assess
>  Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
> on reading
>  assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
> alleged
>  failure
>  to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
> unconvinced by
>  the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
> technology as
>  reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
> "as pointed
>  out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
> does not
>  equate
>  to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
> comprehending text by
>  passively listening, even if one is following along with the
> reading."  The
>  order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on
> them to
>  do,
>  which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
> meaningful
>  educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
> James-Beavers
>  ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
> for
>  forty-five
>  minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
> compensatory
>  instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
> provided with
>  Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
> programs or
>  tutoring.
>
>
>
>  Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
> Blind, said:
>  "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
> and blind
>  adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
> the years,
>  the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
> that blind
>  children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
> instruction when
>  it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
> comprehensive
>  examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
> independent judge has
>  confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
> officials
>  across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
> to giving
>  blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
> the vast
>  majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
> National
>  Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
> like the
>  Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
> establishment in
>  obtaining the equal education to which their children are
> entitled and
>  which
>  they deserve."
>
>
>
>  Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with
> this
>  ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
> prolonged battle
>  to
>  achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes
> that other
>  parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
> I thank the
>  National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
> experts who
>  came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
> publicly
>  advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
> instruction
>  for blind children."
>
>
>
>  The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
> Krevor-Weisbaum of
>  the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
> Wesler of the
>  Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>
>
>
>  For more information about the National Federation of the Blind,
> please
>  visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
> about
>  Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
> visit
>  www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ###
>
>
>
>
>
>  About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
>  With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
> Blind is the
>  largest and most influential membership organization of blind
> people in the
>  United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through
> advocacy,
>  education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
> independence and
>  self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field
> today and
>  the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened
> the
>  National
>  Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
> and training
>  center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40
> mchsi.com
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
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> 0earthlink.net
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
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>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
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> 0students.pccua.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Wed May  9 01:03:54 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 20:03:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
	ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
Message-ID: <4fa9c29f.4ab2ec0a.514c.3bc6@mx.google.com>

Well, if enough people petition for it, they can make it a bill.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 19:55:59 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Just a clarification: that's not a bill, that's a letter.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 6:21 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
ApplaudsNewJersey
Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Oh, it will!
If the bill passes, that my senator helped to put together, all 
blind
students will be required to have the best Braille education 
possible.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/8/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
 I've heard of that far too often in my state as well. Many 
people whom
 I know did not get a decent braille education until they went to 
LCB
 for training. It's sad but true. Hopefully that will begin to 
change.

  ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Heather Field" <missheather at comcast.net
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 12:45:51 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
 ApplaudsNewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 It wasn't about his age. The said he could see too much to need
 braille.
 They said he could use print and that they would not agree to 
teach
 him braille.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Joshua Lester
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:01 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 How old is the child?
 I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
 Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
 Any word on how old he is?
 Thanks, Joshua

 On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
  I agree, how  sad.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Loren
  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
  To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
 blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

  It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this 
decision.
 Would  anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that 
long?
 Congrats to
  the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for 
your
 child.

  Loren Wakefield



  -----Original Message-----
  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
 [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
  Behalf
  Of Chris Nusbaum
  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
  To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind 
Students
 mailing  list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
  Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
New
 Jersey  Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





  From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
  To: Undisclosed recipients:
  Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
 Ruling on
  Braille Instruction for Blind Child



  FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



  CONTACT:

  Chris Danielsen

  Director of Public Relations

  National Federation of the Blind

  (410) 659-9314, extension 2330

  (410) 262-1281 (Cell)

  <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




  National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
 Braille
  Instruction for Blind Child


  After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
 Instruction




  Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
 administrative and
  legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
 Board of
  Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
 number: 2011
  17218) from an administrative law judge that their
 eleven-year-old son
  Henry
  "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
 reading
  and
  writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
 the
  assistance
  of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/
 (NFB),
  comes
  on the heels of

 
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
 Duncan%20re
  %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators 
urging
 the
  Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
 children who
  need
  Braille instruction receive it.



  Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
 their son,
  Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
 albinism and
  nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
 enlarged print
  for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
 sustained periods
  of
  time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
 officials that
  their
  son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
 reading, the
  school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
 the Blind
  and
  Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
 print
  reader,
  notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
 room for
  language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
 process
  provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
 Improvement Act
  of
  2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
 struggle with
  his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
 unable to
  convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
  instruction.
  She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
 quantity and
  quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
 school and
  the
  commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
 participate
  in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the 
NFB
 concluded
  after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
 extended
  periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, 
fatigue,
 and loss
  of
  reading speed and comprehension.



  In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
 that the
  school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
 Braille."
  She found that the school board and the commission had failed 
to
 assess
  Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
 on reading
  assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
 alleged
  failure
  to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
 unconvinced by
  the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
 technology
  as
  reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
 "as
  pointed
  out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
 does not
  equate
  to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
 comprehending text
  by
  passively listening, even if one is following along with the
 reading."
  The
  order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied 
on
 them to
  do,
  which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
 meaningful
  educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
 James-Beavers
  ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
 for
  forty-five
  minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
 compensatory
  instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
 provided with
  Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
 programs or
  tutoring.



  Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
 Blind, said:
  "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
 and blind
  adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
 the years,
  the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
 that blind
  children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
 instruction when
  it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
 comprehensive
  examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
 independent judge
  has
  confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
 officials
  across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
 to giving
  blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
 the vast
  majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
 National
  Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
 like the
  Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
 establishment
  in
  obtaining the equal education to which their children are
 entitled and
  which
  they deserve."



  Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled 
with
 this
  ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
 prolonged battle
  to
  achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in 
hopes
 that
  other
  parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
 I thank
  the
  National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
 experts
  who
  came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
 publicly
  advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
 instruction
  for blind children."



  The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
 Krevor-Weisbaum of
  the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
 Wesler of the
  Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



  For more information about the National Federation of the 
Blind,
 please
  visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
 about
  Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
 visit
  www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







  ###





  About the National Federation of the Blind



  With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
 Blind is the
  largest and most influential membership organization of blind
 people in
  the
  United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through
 advocacy,
  education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
 independence and
  self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field
 today and
  the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened
 the
  National
  Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
 and
  training
  center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



  _______________________________________________
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Wed May  9 01:05:11 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 20:05:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
Message-ID: <4fa9c2ec.2a4cec0a.4193.39d1@mx.google.com>

Well... yeah, but that's a huge pain in the butt and I don't 
recommend it. You have to select each individual page and read 
it. For a one or two page document, that's not bad, but for a 
400-page book it would be kinda hard.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:02:28 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] problems with blio

Hi Sophie,

Hmm... I'm not sure. Would you be able to just use VoiceOver to 
read it?

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Sophie Trist
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:49 PM
To: nabs
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio

Hi y'all,

Recently, I got the Blio app, which is an acessible Ebook reader 
for the
iPhone. Yeserday, I bought a book from the Blio store and 
attempted to rea
it only to find that the text-to-speech feature was not enabled. 
I doubt
there is any way to manually enable this feature, but if there 
is, would you
please let me know? What troubled me about this was that nowhere 
in the
product details did it tell me whether text-to-speech was enabled 
or not.
And just out of curiosity, why would text-to-speech not be 
enabled on a
website specifically designed for blind users?
Yours,
Sophie Trist

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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Wed May  9 01:07:48 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:07:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
 ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <4fa9c29f.4ab2ec0a.514c.3bc6@mx.google.com>
References: <4fa9c29f.4ab2ec0a.514c.3bc6@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOt8Ku6wDZb-KRmv8sDN2Zsa-SrQ4wDO3877SNommvTO6g@mail.gmail.com>

I've already petitioned my congressman.
You can do the same!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/8/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, if enough people petition for it, they can make it a bill.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 19:55:59 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
> ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> Just a clarification: that's not a bill, that's a letter.
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Joshua Lester
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 6:21 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
> ApplaudsNewJersey
> Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> Oh, it will!
> If the bill passes, that my senator helped to put together, all
> blind
> students will be required to have the best Braille education
> possible.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/8/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I've heard of that far too often in my state as well. Many
> people whom
>  I know did not get a decent braille education until they went to
> LCB
>  for training. It's sad but true. Hopefully that will begin to
> change.
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>  From: "Heather Field" <missheather at comcast.net
>  To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 12:45:51 -0500
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
>  ApplaudsNewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>  It wasn't about his age. The said he could see too much to need
>  braille.
>  They said he could use print and that they would not agree to
> teach
>  him braille.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Joshua Lester
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:01 PM
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
> Applauds
>  NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>  How old is the child?
>  I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
>  Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
>  Any word on how old he is?
>  Thanks, Joshua
>
>  On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>   I agree, how  sad.
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Loren
>   Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>   To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
> Applauds
>  NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>   It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this
> decision.
>  Would  anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that
> long?
>  Congrats to
>   the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for
> your
>  child.
>
>   Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>  [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>   Behalf
>   Of Chris Nusbaum
>   Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>   To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind
> Students
>  mailing  list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>   Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> New
>  Jersey  Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>
>
>   From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>   Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>   To: Undisclosed recipients:
>   Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
>  Ruling on
>   Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>   FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
>   CONTACT:
>
>   Chris Danielsen
>
>   Director of Public Relations
>
>   National Federation of the Blind
>
>   (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
>   (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
>   <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
>   National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>  Braille
>   Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>   After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
>  Instruction
>
>
>
>
>   Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
>  administrative and
>   legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
>  Board of
>   Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
>  number: 2011
>   17218) from an administrative law judge that their
>  eleven-year-old son
>   Henry
>   "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
>  reading
>   and
>   writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
>  the
>   assistance
>   of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/
>  (NFB),
>   comes
>   on the heels of
>
>
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
>  Duncan%20re
>   %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators
> urging
>  the
>   Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
>  children who
>   need
>   Braille instruction receive it.
>
>
>
>   Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
>  their son,
>   Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
>  albinism and
>   nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
>  enlarged print
>   for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
>  sustained periods
>   of
>   time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
>  officials that
>   their
>   son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
>  reading, the
>   school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
>  the Blind
>   and
>   Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
>  print
>   reader,
>   notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
>  room for
>   language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
>  process
>   provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
>  Improvement Act
>   of
>   2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
>  struggle with
>   his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
>  unable to
>   convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>   instruction.
>   She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
>  quantity and
>   quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
>  school and
>   the
>   commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>  participate
>   in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the
> NFB
>  concluded
>   after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
>  extended
>   periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain,
> fatigue,
>  and loss
>   of
>   reading speed and comprehension.
>
>
>
>   In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
>  that the
>   school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
>  Braille."
>   She found that the school board and the commission had failed
> to
>  assess
>   Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
>  on reading
>   assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
>  alleged
>   failure
>   to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
>  unconvinced by
>   the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
>  technology
>   as
>   reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
>  "as
>   pointed
>   out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
>  does not
>   equate
>   to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
>  comprehending text
>   by
>   passively listening, even if one is following along with the
>  reading."
>   The
>   order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied
> on
>  them to
>   do,
>   which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
>  meaningful
>   educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>  James-Beavers
>   ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
>  for
>   forty-five
>   minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
>  compensatory
>   instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
>  provided with
>   Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
>  programs or
>   tutoring.
>
>
>
>   Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
>  Blind, said:
>   "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
>  and blind
>   adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
>  the years,
>   the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
>  that blind
>   children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
>  instruction when
>   it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
>  comprehensive
>   examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
>  independent judge
>   has
>   confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
>  officials
>   across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
>  to giving
>   blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
>  the vast
>   majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
>  National
>   Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
>  like the
>   Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
>  establishment
>   in
>   obtaining the equal education to which their children are
>  entitled and
>   which
>   they deserve."
>
>
>
>   Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled
> with
>  this
>   ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
>  prolonged battle
>   to
>   achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in
> hopes
>  that
>   other
>   parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
>  I thank
>   the
>   National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
>  experts
>   who
>   came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
>  publicly
>   advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>  instruction
>   for blind children."
>
>
>
>   The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
>  Krevor-Weisbaum of
>   the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
>  Wesler of the
>   Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>
>
>
>   For more information about the National Federation of the
> Blind,
>  please
>   visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
>  about
>   Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
>  visit
>   www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   ###
>
>
>
>
>
>   About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
>   With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
>  Blind is the
>   largest and most influential membership organization of blind
>  people in
>   the
>   United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through
>  advocacy,
>   education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
>  independence and
>   self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field
>  today and
>   the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened
>  the
>   National
>   Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
>  and
>   training
>   center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
>   nabs-l mailing list
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Wed May  9 01:10:08 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:10:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
In-Reply-To: <4fa9c2ec.2a4cec0a.4193.39d1@mx.google.com>
References: <4fa9c2ec.2a4cec0a.4193.39d1@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvZ+eK6WsT7QrpK-Q=pZdvXoN2qwWkc_=yEQ5RMBCVCHA@mail.gmail.com>

Just download the book from Bookshare, and read it on your IPad, and
Focus 40 Blue Braille Display, if you have one.
That's what I'm going to do, when I get my IPad, and IPhone.
The displays are $26.95.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/8/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well... yeah, but that's a huge pain in the butt and I don't
> recommend it. You have to select each individual page and read
> it. For a one or two page document, that's not bad, but for a
> 400-page book it would be kinda hard.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:02:28 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] problems with blio
>
> Hi Sophie,
>
> Hmm... I'm not sure. Would you be able to just use VoiceOver to
> read it?
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Sophie Trist
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:49 PM
> To: nabs
> Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
>
> Hi y'all,
>
> Recently, I got the Blio app, which is an acessible Ebook reader
> for the
> iPhone. Yeserday, I bought a book from the Blio store and
> attempted to rea
> it only to find that the text-to-speech feature was not enabled.
> I doubt
> there is any way to manually enable this feature, but if there
> is, would you
> please let me know? What troubled me about this was that nowhere
> in the
> product details did it tell me whether text-to-speech was enabled
> or not.
> And just out of curiosity, why would text-to-speech not be
> enabled on a
> website specifically designed for blind users?
> Yours,
> Sophie Trist
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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From anthony at olivero.us  Wed May  9 01:18:27 2012
From: anthony at olivero.us (Tony Olivero)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:18:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
In-Reply-To: <4fa9c2ec.2a4cec0a.4193.39d1@mx.google.com>
References: <4fa9c2ec.2a4cec0a.4193.39d1@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CALQ-rrMB0rjw+cRJcEGjOD7e_j26V42a8xEJCMe9nbt7Gf-ptQ@mail.gmail.com>

Sophie,

The TTS voices (for the built in speech functions) are not included
with the application. From the main application screen, select the
"Application Settings" button, then select the Voice button, then
Download Voices. Each voice costs about $10.

Also note that  when reading with voiceover, once you select a page
(double-tapping it so it is the only thing visible on the screen), you
can swipe down with two fingers and Voiceover will read continuously,
automatically changing pages when it reaches the last line. You can
also manually change pages by swiping left and right with  three
fingers.

Tony

On 5/8/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well... yeah, but that's a huge pain in the butt and I don't
> recommend it. You have to select each individual page and read
> it. For a one or two page document, that's not bad, but for a
> 400-page book it would be kinda hard.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:02:28 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] problems with blio
>
> Hi Sophie,
>
> Hmm... I'm not sure. Would you be able to just use VoiceOver to
> read it?
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Sophie Trist
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:49 PM
> To: nabs
> Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
>
> Hi y'all,
>
> Recently, I got the Blio app, which is an acessible Ebook reader
> for the
> iPhone. Yeserday, I bought a book from the Blio store and
> attempted to rea
> it only to find that the text-to-speech feature was not enabled.
> I doubt
> there is any way to manually enable this feature, but if there
> is, would you
> please let me know? What troubled me about this was that nowhere
> in the
> product details did it tell me whether text-to-speech was enabled
> or not.
> And just out of curiosity, why would text-to-speech not be
> enabled on a
> website specifically designed for blind users?
> Yours,
> Sophie Trist
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From anthony at olivero.us  Wed May  9 01:20:38 2012
From: anthony at olivero.us (Tony Olivero)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:20:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOvZ+eK6WsT7QrpK-Q=pZdvXoN2qwWkc_=yEQ5RMBCVCHA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4fa9c2ec.2a4cec0a.4193.39d1@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOvZ+eK6WsT7QrpK-Q=pZdvXoN2qwWkc_=yEQ5RMBCVCHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALQ-rrOA1oK18e9jip=pgeoGpkb2sCU-7+30CEHszJDp+9=0rQ@mail.gmail.com>

Josh, just a point of clarification.

On 5/8/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> The displays are $26.95.

The displays are actually $2695.00. Do I ever wish they were $26.95 though. :)

Tony


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Wed May  9 01:23:57 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:23:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
In-Reply-To: <CALQ-rrOA1oK18e9jip=pgeoGpkb2sCU-7+30CEHszJDp+9=0rQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4fa9c2ec.2a4cec0a.4193.39d1@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOvZ+eK6WsT7QrpK-Q=pZdvXoN2qwWkc_=yEQ5RMBCVCHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALQ-rrOA1oK18e9jip=pgeoGpkb2sCU-7+30CEHszJDp+9=0rQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvGeuGTdSBtqDfeNibEw83rN9QVbAMfcvhvFthZjYZ1Jw@mail.gmail.com>

Wow!
I was misinformed, then.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/8/12, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:
> Josh, just a point of clarification.
>
> On 5/8/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> The displays are $26.95.
>
> The displays are actually $2695.00. Do I ever wish they were $26.95 though.
> :)
>
> Tony
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Wed May  9 01:24:53 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:24:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOvGeuGTdSBtqDfeNibEw83rN9QVbAMfcvhvFthZjYZ1Jw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4fa9c2ec.2a4cec0a.4193.39d1@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOvZ+eK6WsT7QrpK-Q=pZdvXoN2qwWkc_=yEQ5RMBCVCHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALQ-rrOA1oK18e9jip=pgeoGpkb2sCU-7+30CEHszJDp+9=0rQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOvGeuGTdSBtqDfeNibEw83rN9QVbAMfcvhvFthZjYZ1Jw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOu5y2qL-rDeOD0xncJ_wkVtgLkcuvGn4oYkrrdVY9fLdw@mail.gmail.com>

It's still Rehab's responsibility to pay for it, because it's for school.
Blessings, Joshua
On 5/8/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> Wow!
> I was misinformed, then.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/8/12, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:
>> Josh, just a point of clarification.
>>
>> On 5/8/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> The displays are $26.95.
>>
>> The displays are actually $2695.00. Do I ever wish they were $26.95
>> though.
>> :)
>>
>> Tony
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed May  9 01:27:56 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 21:27:56 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
In-Reply-To: <4fa9c2ec.2a4cec0a.4193.39d1@mx.google.com>
References: <4fa9c2ec.2a4cec0a.4193.39d1@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <000301cd2d82$f7060e20$e5122a60$@gmail.com>

Exactly right! It's all about the constituent pressure! But isn't that
regulation (the regulation which says that Braille is the primary medium for
reading and writing instruction for blind students) already on the books?

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Sophie Trist
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:05 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] problems with blio

Well... yeah, but that's a huge pain in the butt and I don't recommend it.
You have to select each individual page and read it. For a one or two page
document, that's not bad, but for a 400-page book it would be kinda hard.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:02:28 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] problems with blio

Hi Sophie,

Hmm... I'm not sure. Would you be able to just use VoiceOver to read it?

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:49 PM
To: nabs
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio

Hi y'all,

Recently, I got the Blio app, which is an acessible Ebook reader for the
iPhone. Yeserday, I bought a book from the Blio store and attempted to rea
it only to find that the text-to-speech feature was not enabled. 
I doubt
there is any way to manually enable this feature, but if there is, would you
please let me know? What troubled me about this was that nowhere in the
product details did it tell me whether text-to-speech was enabled or not.
And just out of curiosity, why would text-to-speech not be enabled on a
website specifically designed for blind users?
Yours,
Sophie Trist

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.c
om


_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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r%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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om



From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Wed May  9 01:29:11 2012
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 20:29:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
In-Reply-To: <776F37CC-5BBE-40FB-9F5D-8AC0FC52949A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000007161342@mailback4.g2host.com>

It is not likely that BLIO is choosing to disable this but rather the author.  I thought this had been dealt with but apparently has not.  The intent of BLIO is to 
be a general e-book reader with a lot of attention built in for blind persons and accessibility.  However, it isn't intended to be a site only for the blind.  
Sometimes the best of intentions come to pass slowly.  

Best regards,

Steve Jacpobson


On Tue, 8 May 2012 17:00:35 -0500, Sophie Trist wrote:

>I know, I just don't see why they would choose to disable it. Maybe it costs more or something.

>Sent from my iPhone

>On May 8, 2012, at 4:53 PM, Jorge Paez <jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com> wrote:

>> Interesting.
>> I saw some books on the site version that do say they have "text-to-speech enabled" so it should've been there somewhere.
>> As far as why it would've been disabled,
>> I think its because that's a decision authors/publishers make, and I think, legally, the company, in this case KNFB can't force them to do that.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On May 8, 2012, at 4:49 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi y'all,
>>> 
>>> Recently, I got the Blio app, which is an acessible Ebook reader for the iPhone. Yeserday, I bought a book from the Blio store and attempted to rea it 
only to find that the text-to-speech feature was not enabled. I doubt there is any way to manually enable this feature, but if there is, would you please let 
me know? What troubled me about this was that nowhere in the product details did it tell me whether text-to-speech was enabled or not. And just out of 
curiosity, why would text-to-speech not be enabled on a website specifically designed for blind users?
>>> Yours,
>>> Sophie Trist
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorge.paez1994%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed May  9 01:29:41 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 21:29:41 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
	NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOu4-44OG2tde9UWOmwGYEnm0xOkDA6iGDAVrNNAxkfMKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local>	<003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com>	<001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com>	<2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC>	<CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com>	<CALAYQJD-cmw1YEOJ_SewED38v7-KHnHi_cdY9SEyMEvW-eo5=w@mail.gmail.com>	<002601cd2d7c$80fb4d40$82f1e7c0$@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOu4-44OG2tde9UWOmwGYEnm0xOkDA6iGDAVrNNAxkfMKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000401cd2d83$360a9000$a21fb000$@gmail.com>

Wow!!! What a compliment!! Thank you very much for these kind words!!!!

Blessings,

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 8:46 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Chris!
I see NFB national president written all over you!
Keep up the good work!
I can't wait to see what happens with you, 50 years from now!
You will be a huge part of the NFB, on a national scale, in the future!
I don't have to be a prophet to say it, because judging by your posts on
these lists, the potential is there!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/8/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was actually 
> having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, who 
> asked me whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of 
> audio technology. I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that 
> happening, I wouldn't want it. Why do I not see Braille going away? 
> Because there are enough blind people who are passionate about Braille 
> to prevent that from happening! Why would I want Braille to continue 
> as the primary source of reading and writing for the blind? Because 
> reading books in audio format, although it is a good method for 
> reading materials sometimes, isn't true literacy. Braille is our form 
> of literacy. Without Braille, we can't read or write. This means that 
> we can't get a job, or go to college, or keep up with our sighted 
> peers. So, I think we definitely still need Braille because it is our 
> form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should get rid of 
> print too!
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to resolve.
> What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, these 
> battles aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first
place.
> Parents
> capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child doesn't 
> need Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy or 
> legal resources to stick it out.
> The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the 
> denial of Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people 
> entrusted to promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just 
> read a few weeks ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to 
> provide her with Braille copies of the storybooks her classmates were 
> given in school. Instead, the teacher thought it sufficient to give 
> the child stuffed toys representing the characters in the stories. I 
> can understand using toys to substitute for the pictures, but if the 
> sighted kids are getting copies of the stories, why not give the exact 
> same content to the blind child as well? I might add that in today's 
> electronic world, and even before computers existed, transcribing a 
> book for preschoolers is not difficult. And even in this case with the 
> Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's decision 
> not to provide Braille. If even the folks who are charged to teach us 
> literacy don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a 
> certified teacher of blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or 
> who refuses to hold their students to competitive reading standards, 
> is not deserving of that certificate.
> I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to 
> bring about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille 
> today and in the future.
> Arielle
>
> On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> How old is the child?
>> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
>> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
>> Any word on how old he is?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> I agree, how  sad.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Loren
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ; 
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
>>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
>>> Would
>>> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
>>> Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing 
>>> for
> your child.
>>>
>>> Loren Wakefield
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students 
>>> mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New 
>>> Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>>> To: Undisclosed recipients:
>>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling 
>>> on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> CONTACT:
>>>
>>> Chris Danielsen
>>>
>>> Director of Public Relations
>>>
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>
>>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>>
>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>>
>>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on 
>>> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>
>>>
>>> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille 
>>> Instruction
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year 
>>> administrative and legal battle against their local school board, 
>>> the Oceanport Board of Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained 
>>> a ruling (docket number:
>>> 2011
>>> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old 
>>> son Henry "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in 
>>> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind.  The legal 
>>> victory, obtained with the assistance of the National Federation of 
>>> the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB), comes on the heels of
>>>
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Dunca
> n%20re
>>> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the 
>>> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children 
>>> who need Braille instruction receive it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their 
>>> son, Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to 
>>> albinism and nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to 
>>> read enlarged print for short periods of time, but he is unable to 
>>> read for sustained periods of time.  Although Hank's parents 
>>> continued to tell school officials that their son was experiencing 
>>> visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading, the school board 
>>> and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind and 
>>> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print 
>>> reader, notwithstanding his continued placement in a special 
>>> resource room for language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held 
>>> under the due process provisions of the Individuals with 
>>> Disabilities Education Improvement Act of 2004, Mrs. Miller 
>>> testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with his 
>>> homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to 
>>> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille 
>>> instruction.
>>> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same 
>>> quantity and quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts 
>>> from the school and the commission claimed that Hank was a "visual 
>>> learner" and should participate in the "sighted world," experts 
>>> hired by the Millers and the NFB concluded after thorough assessment 
>>> that Hank could not read print for extended periods of time without 
>>> eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss of reading speed 
>>> and comprehension.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that 
>>> the school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against 
>>> Braille."
>>> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to 
>>> assess Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying 
>>> instead on reading assessments involving only brief passages, and 
>>> citing Hank's alleged failure to complain about struggling to read 
>>> print.  The judge was unconvinced by the board and CBVI's contention 
>>> that Hank could rely on audio technology as reading demands 
>>> increased through his school years, noting that "as pointed out by 
>>> all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not 
>>> equate to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of 
>>> comprehending text by passively listening, even if one is following 
>>> along with the reading."
>>> The
>>> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on 
>>> them to do, which is to help construct a program that would give 
>>> H.M. meaningful educational benefit considering H.M.'s future 
>>> needs."  Judge James-Beavers ordered that Hank Miller be provided 
>>> with Braille instruction for forty-five minutes, five days a week, 
>>> and that the school board provide compensatory instruction because 
>>> of the three years that Hank was not provided with Braille 
>>> instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or 
>>> tutoring.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
>>> said:
>>> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and 
>>> blind adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us 
>>> over the years, the National Federation of the Blind has 
>>> consistently argued that blind children are being improperly 
>>> assessed and denied Braille instruction when it is clearly 
>>> appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive examination of 
>>> the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge has 
>>> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency 
>>> officials across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and 
>>> commit to giving blind children access to Braille, the true key to 
>>> literacy for the vast majority of children who are blind or losing 
>>> vision.  The National Federation of the Blind will continue to stand 
>>> with families like the Millers who find themselves pitted against 
>>> the educational establishment in obtaining the equal education to 
>>> which their children are entitled and which they deserve."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with 
>>> this ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a 
>>> prolonged battle to achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell 
>>> Hank's story in hopes that other parents of blind children will not 
>>> have to struggle as we did.  I thank the National Federation of the 
>>> Blind and all of the individuals and experts who came forward to 
>>> assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly advocate with 
>>> the National Federation of the Blind for Braille instruction for 
>>> blind children."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon 
>>> Krevor-Weisbaum of the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, 
>>> and Jayne M. Wesler of the Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, 
>>> please visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more 
>>> information about Braille, the reading and writing code for the 
>>> blind, please visit www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ###
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind 
>>> is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind 
>>> people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives 
>>> through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs 
>>> encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading 
>>> force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's 
>>> blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the 
>>> Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in 
>>> the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
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> .com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
> net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
> ents.p
> ccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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_______________________________________________
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Wed May  9 01:31:27 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:31:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
In-Reply-To: <000301cd2d82$f7060e20$e5122a60$@gmail.com>
References: <4fa9c2ec.2a4cec0a.4193.39d1@mx.google.com>
	<000301cd2d82$f7060e20$e5122a60$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtTeo06qndc-7zziqrMYhaH3qud5p0pb8o7J0+Karu13w@mail.gmail.com>

It's on the books, but the people aren't following the rules!
That's the problem!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/8/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Exactly right! It's all about the constituent pressure! But isn't that
> regulation (the regulation which says that Braille is the primary medium
> for
> reading and writing instruction for blind students) already on the books?
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Sophie Trist
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:05 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] problems with blio
>
> Well... yeah, but that's a huge pain in the butt and I don't recommend it.
> You have to select each individual page and read it. For a one or two page
> document, that's not bad, but for a 400-page book it would be kinda hard.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:02:28 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] problems with blio
>
> Hi Sophie,
>
> Hmm... I'm not sure. Would you be able to just use VoiceOver to read it?
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:49 PM
> To: nabs
> Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
>
> Hi y'all,
>
> Recently, I got the Blio app, which is an acessible Ebook reader for the
> iPhone. Yeserday, I bought a book from the Blio store and attempted to rea
> it only to find that the text-to-speech feature was not enabled.
> I doubt
> there is any way to manually enable this feature, but if there is, would
> you
> please let me know? What troubled me about this was that nowhere in the
> product details did it tell me whether text-to-speech was enabled or not.
> And just out of curiosity, why would text-to-speech not be enabled on a
> website specifically designed for blind users?
> Yours,
> Sophie Trist
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Wed May  9 01:35:40 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:35:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <000401cd2d83$360a9000$a21fb000$@gmail.com>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local>
	<003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com>
	<001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com>
	<2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJD-cmw1YEOJ_SewED38v7-KHnHi_cdY9SEyMEvW-eo5=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<002601cd2d7c$80fb4d40$82f1e7c0$@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOu4-44OG2tde9UWOmwGYEnm0xOkDA6iGDAVrNNAxkfMKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000401cd2d83$360a9000$a21fb000$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOuu2p0RTq6VvHCzUDcDKm3V=DXs_iRTCQz9-nMcbXKq3A@mail.gmail.com>

Did you attend Washington Seminar, this year?
I was watching CSpan, and was upset that they didn't show it!
I brought up Washington Seminar, because I was wondering if this stuff
we're discussing was brought up.
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/8/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Wow!!! What a compliment!! Thank you very much for these kind words!!!!
>
> Blessings,
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Joshua Lester
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 8:46 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> Chris!
> I see NFB national president written all over you!
> Keep up the good work!
> I can't wait to see what happens with you, 50 years from now!
> You will be a huge part of the NFB, on a national scale, in the future!
> I don't have to be a prophet to say it, because judging by your posts on
> these lists, the potential is there!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/8/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was actually
>> having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, who
>> asked me whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of
>> audio technology. I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that
>> happening, I wouldn't want it. Why do I not see Braille going away?
>> Because there are enough blind people who are passionate about Braille
>> to prevent that from happening! Why would I want Braille to continue
>> as the primary source of reading and writing for the blind? Because
>> reading books in audio format, although it is a good method for
>> reading materials sometimes, isn't true literacy. Braille is our form
>> of literacy. Without Braille, we can't read or write. This means that
>> we can't get a job, or go to college, or keep up with our sighted
>> peers. So, I think we definitely still need Braille because it is our
>> form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should get rid of
>> print too!
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Arielle Silverman
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>> It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to resolve.
>> What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, these
>> battles aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first
> place.
>> Parents
>> capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child doesn't
>> need Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy or
>> legal resources to stick it out.
>> The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the
>> denial of Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
>> entrusted to promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just
>> read a few weeks ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to
>> provide her with Braille copies of the storybooks her classmates were
>> given in school. Instead, the teacher thought it sufficient to give
>> the child stuffed toys representing the characters in the stories. I
>> can understand using toys to substitute for the pictures, but if the
>> sighted kids are getting copies of the stories, why not give the exact
>> same content to the blind child as well? I might add that in today's
>> electronic world, and even before computers existed, transcribing a
>> book for preschoolers is not difficult. And even in this case with the
>> Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's decision
>> not to provide Braille. If even the folks who are charged to teach us
>> literacy don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a
>> certified teacher of blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or
>> who refuses to hold their students to competitive reading standards,
>> is not deserving of that certificate.
>> I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to
>> bring about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille
>> today and in the future.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> How old is the child?
>>> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
>>> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
>>> Any word on how old he is?
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> I agree, how  sad.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Loren
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>>>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>>
>>>> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
>>>> Would
>>>> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
>>>> Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing
>>>> for
>> your child.
>>>>
>>>> Loren Wakefield
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
>>>> mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
>>>> Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>>>> To: Undisclosed recipients:
>>>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling
>>>> on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> CONTACT:
>>>>
>>>> Chris Danielsen
>>>>
>>>> Director of Public Relations
>>>>
>>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>>>
>>>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>>>
>>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>>>
>>>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>>>> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
>>>> Instruction
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
>>>> administrative and legal battle against their local school board,
>>>> the Oceanport Board of Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained
>>>> a ruling (docket number:
>>>> 2011
>>>> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old
>>>> son Henry "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in
>>>> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind.  The legal
>>>> victory, obtained with the assistance of the National Federation of
>>>> the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB), comes on the heels of
>>>>
>> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Dunca
>> n%20re
>>>> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
>>>> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children
>>>> who need Braille instruction receive it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their
>>>> son, Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
>>>> albinism and nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to
>>>> read enlarged print for short periods of time, but he is unable to
>>>> read for sustained periods of time.  Although Hank's parents
>>>> continued to tell school officials that their son was experiencing
>>>> visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading, the school board
>>>> and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind and
>>>> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
>>>> reader, notwithstanding his continued placement in a special
>>>> resource room for language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held
>>>> under the due process provisions of the Individuals with
>>>> Disabilities Education Improvement Act of 2004, Mrs. Miller
>>>> testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with his
>>>> homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
>>>> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>>>> instruction.
>>>> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
>>>> quantity and quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts
>>>> from the school and the commission claimed that Hank was a "visual
>>>> learner" and should participate in the "sighted world," experts
>>>> hired by the Millers and the NFB concluded after thorough assessment
>>>> that Hank could not read print for extended periods of time without
>>>> eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss of reading speed
>>>> and comprehension.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that
>>>> the school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
>>>> Braille."
>>>> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to
>>>> assess Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying
>>>> instead on reading assessments involving only brief passages, and
>>>> citing Hank's alleged failure to complain about struggling to read
>>>> print.  The judge was unconvinced by the board and CBVI's contention
>>>> that Hank could rely on audio technology as reading demands
>>>> increased through his school years, noting that "as pointed out by
>>>> all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
>>>> equate to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
>>>> comprehending text by passively listening, even if one is following
>>>> along with the reading."
>>>> The
>>>> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on
>>>> them to do, which is to help construct a program that would give
>>>> H.M. meaningful educational benefit considering H.M.'s future
>>>> needs."  Judge James-Beavers ordered that Hank Miller be provided
>>>> with Braille instruction for forty-five minutes, five days a week,
>>>> and that the school board provide compensatory instruction because
>>>> of the three years that Hank was not provided with Braille
>>>> instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
>>>> tutoring.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
>>>> said:
>>>> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and
>>>> blind adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us
>>>> over the years, the National Federation of the Blind has
>>>> consistently argued that blind children are being improperly
>>>> assessed and denied Braille instruction when it is clearly
>>>> appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive examination of
>>>> the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge has
>>>> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
>>>> officials across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and
>>>> commit to giving blind children access to Braille, the true key to
>>>> literacy for the vast majority of children who are blind or losing
>>>> vision.  The National Federation of the Blind will continue to stand
>>>> with families like the Millers who find themselves pitted against
>>>> the educational establishment in obtaining the equal education to
>>>> which their children are entitled and which they deserve."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with
>>>> this ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
>>>> prolonged battle to achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell
>>>> Hank's story in hopes that other parents of blind children will not
>>>> have to struggle as we did.  I thank the National Federation of the
>>>> Blind and all of the individuals and experts who came forward to
>>>> assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly advocate with
>>>> the National Federation of the Blind for Braille instruction for
>>>> blind children."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
>>>> Krevor-Weisbaum of the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy,
>>>> and Jayne M. Wesler of the Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind,
>>>> please visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more
>>>> information about Braille, the reading and writing code for the
>>>> blind, please visit www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ###
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind
>>>> is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind
>>>> people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives
>>>> through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs
>>>> encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading
>>>> force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's
>>>> blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the
>>>> Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in
>>>> the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
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>> .com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>
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>> net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
>> ents.p
>> ccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>>
>>
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>>
>
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed May  9 02:21:58 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 22:21:58 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
In-Reply-To: <000301cd2d82$f7060e20$e5122a60$@gmail.com>
References: <4fa9c2ec.2a4cec0a.4193.39d1@mx.google.com>
	<000301cd2d82$f7060e20$e5122a60$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3709AD43F6B14A87AB72C9D868B8A55B@OwnerPC>

Chris,
yes it is; its in the individuals with disabilities education act.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:27 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] problems with blio

Exactly right! It's all about the constituent pressure! But isn't that
regulation (the regulation which says that Braille is the primary medium for
reading and writing instruction for blind students) already on the books?

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Sophie Trist
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:05 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] problems with blio

Well... yeah, but that's a huge pain in the butt and I don't recommend it.
You have to select each individual page and read it. For a one or two page
document, that's not bad, but for a 400-page book it would be kinda hard.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:02:28 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] problems with blio

Hi Sophie,

Hmm... I'm not sure. Would you be able to just use VoiceOver to read it?

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:49 PM
To: nabs
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio

Hi y'all,

Recently, I got the Blio app, which is an acessible Ebook reader for the
iPhone. Yeserday, I bought a book from the Blio store and attempted to rea
it only to find that the text-to-speech feature was not enabled.
I doubt
there is any way to manually enable this feature, but if there is, would you
please let me know? What troubled me about this was that nowhere in the
product details did it tell me whether text-to-speech was enabled or not.
And just out of curiosity, why would text-to-speech not be enabled on a
website specifically designed for blind users?
Yours,
Sophie Trist

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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m%40gmail.c
om


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for nabs-l:
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r%40gmail.com

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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om


_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Wed May  9 02:30:13 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 21:30:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
In-Reply-To: <3709AD43F6B14A87AB72C9D868B8A55B@OwnerPC>
References: <4fa9c2ec.2a4cec0a.4193.39d1@mx.google.com>
	<000301cd2d82$f7060e20$e5122a60$@gmail.com>
	<3709AD43F6B14A87AB72C9D868B8A55B@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOuQbf_Jqzk+dKta18MMjWW_P+9V_Op6xVx98dwT_FR9eg@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, but those people still violate it!
We need stronger laws, and more enforcement!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/8/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Chris,
> yes it is; its in the individuals with disabilities education act.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:27 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] problems with blio
>
> Exactly right! It's all about the constituent pressure! But isn't that
> regulation (the regulation which says that Braille is the primary medium
> for
> reading and writing instruction for blind students) already on the books?
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Sophie Trist
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:05 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] problems with blio
>
> Well... yeah, but that's a huge pain in the butt and I don't recommend it.
> You have to select each individual page and read it. For a one or two page
> document, that's not bad, but for a 400-page book it would be kinda hard.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:02:28 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] problems with blio
>
> Hi Sophie,
>
> Hmm... I'm not sure. Would you be able to just use VoiceOver to read it?
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:49 PM
> To: nabs
> Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
>
> Hi y'all,
>
> Recently, I got the Blio app, which is an acessible Ebook reader for the
> iPhone. Yeserday, I bought a book from the Blio store and attempted to rea
> it only to find that the text-to-speech feature was not enabled.
> I doubt
> there is any way to manually enable this feature, but if there is, would
> you
> please let me know? What troubled me about this was that nowhere in the
> product details did it tell me whether text-to-speech was enabled or not.
> And just out of curiosity, why would text-to-speech not be enabled on a
> website specifically designed for blind users?
> Yours,
> Sophie Trist
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>


From anthony at olivero.us  Wed May  9 02:31:44 2012
From: anthony at olivero.us (Tony Olivero)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 21:31:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
In-Reply-To: <3709AD43F6B14A87AB72C9D868B8A55B@OwnerPC>
References: <4fa9c2ec.2a4cec0a.4193.39d1@mx.google.com>
	<000301cd2d82$f7060e20$e5122a60$@gmail.com>
	<3709AD43F6B14A87AB72C9D868B8A55B@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CALQ-rrMP44ziRMMzyRHCKV4uC+SKuvAw41w9TqD8FpHgJ+SF9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Guys:

There are a couple things at play.

1) Access to the text with accessibility software has been garenteed
by Blio. This is possible with screen access software for Blio on the
PC, and with VoiceOver on the iPhone, and even on the Android
platform. This applies to all texts provided by Blio.
2. With regard to the more human sounding voices, there is no
requirement to provide this capability on *all* books. This is a
publisher's option. This is so, because (whether we as individuals
think this is stupid or not) publishers don't always want people using
a TTS engine when they can buy the book in true, narrated-by-an-actor
fashion. Now, the reason this is separate from accessibility is that
Blio has made the commitment to allow access technology products (i.e.
VoiceOver) to access the text regardless of the publisher's stance on
TTS available to all users.

I realize it's a bit confusing, and perhaps leaves you with more
questions than answers, but that's where things stand. You should be
able to read *all* Blio books with accessibility software,but you may
not be able to read them all with the optional Human-sounding voices.

Tony

On 5/8/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Chris,
> yes it is; its in the individuals with disabilities education act.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:27 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] problems with blio
>
> Exactly right! It's all about the constituent pressure! But isn't that
> regulation (the regulation which says that Braille is the primary medium
> for
> reading and writing instruction for blind students) already on the books?
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Sophie Trist
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 9:05 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] problems with blio
>
> Well... yeah, but that's a huge pain in the butt and I don't recommend it.
> You have to select each individual page and read it. For a one or two page
> document, that's not bad, but for a 400-page book it would be kinda hard.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:02:28 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] problems with blio
>
> Hi Sophie,
>
> Hmm... I'm not sure. Would you be able to just use VoiceOver to read it?
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Sophie Trist
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:49 PM
> To: nabs
> Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
>
> Hi y'all,
>
> Recently, I got the Blio app, which is an acessible Ebook reader for the
> iPhone. Yeserday, I bought a book from the Blio store and attempted to rea
> it only to find that the text-to-speech feature was not enabled.
> I doubt
> there is any way to manually enable this feature, but if there is, would
> you
> please let me know? What troubled me about this was that nowhere in the
> product details did it tell me whether text-to-speech was enabled or not.
> And just out of curiosity, why would text-to-speech not be enabled on a
> website specifically designed for blind users?
> Yours,
> Sophie Trist
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Wed May  9 02:35:43 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 21:35:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography
References: <4fa98aec.0e55650a.3f40.1e96@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <B359BC9EF74840B88B40BD3B4AF77586@Gloria>

Thanks for your advice
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sophie Trist" <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] World Geography


> Gloria, I am a freshman in high school and as such have taken a World 
> Geography course this year. I can't speak for your teacher, but the course 
> I took mainly focused on things such as culture, economy, and current 
> events happening in places around the world.
> If you are going to take this class next year, I suggest you ask your 
> teacher if she is a big map user. I hope she isn't, for your sake. I'm 
> sorry I can't help you more than that. But I think it's an individual 
> teacher thing. It's about how far your teacher will go to adapt your 
> needs.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gloria G" <gloria.graves at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 12:52:08 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography
>
> Hi all,
> I was wondering if anyone has taken or are taking a world geography class? 
> If so how do you handle maps? Can you tell me about other challenges you 
> have had or are having with the class? Thanks
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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> r%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From arielle71 at gmail.com  Wed May  9 04:09:44 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2012 22:09:44 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDtwWWMz565nn-Tj=6OSYYrLK_US2k634dErW-DrN3ejA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
It is obvious to all of us that we need to take action to ensure that
the current and future generations of blind children will get the
Braille instruction they are entitled to and be held to the same
reading and writing standards as the sighted. However, I fear the
solution is much more complicated than just passing a national Braille
bill. While I am not terribly familiar with Braille legislation, I
have definitely seen cases where even in states with laws on their
books mandating Braille instruction, kids are falling through the
cracks and not getting it. I know Arizona has adopted a Braille bill
mandating that Braille is the "presumed reading medium" for all blind
children unless the entire IEP team (including the child's parents)
determines that the child can read and write optimally with print. But
even in Arizona and other states with similar laws, some kids are not
getting Braille. There are many ways teachers or school districts can
get around the legal mandates. For example they can simply delay
holding an IEP meeting for a child or delay giving tests to determine
whether or not the child is a functional print reader. They can agree
to provide Braille but then only give a child 30 minutes per week of
instruction because that's all the time the TVI has to work with each
student. I've even heard of one case where a TVI insisted a particular
child wasn't really legally blind even though this was clearly spelled
out by the child's eye specialists. Passing a national Braille bill is
an important step toward making change, but it won't be a viable
solution by itself unless everyone involved actually wants to obey the
laws rather than finding loopholes around them, and when schools have
the resources to provide the amount and quality of Braille instruction
they are required to provide.
There are several serious problems with the system for educating blind
children that need to be addressed in different ways. The educational
system has long been dominated by professionals who are trained to
view blindness as a deficit. Because of this overarching philosophy,
they are not naturally inclined to aim toward giving blind and sighted
students the same standard of education. I think there has always been
too much of a focus in the blindness field about what blind people
cannot do or what we do differently, rather than what we can do and
what we share in common with sighted students. There is a tendency to
be "reactive" and respond to deficits after they occur rather than
being "proactive" and preventing kids from getting behind in the first
place.
There are also lots of very negative attitudes about Braille floating
around in the minds of some blindness professionals. Braille is slow;
Braille is hard to learn; Braille sets a blind child apart from
others; Braille is only for totally blind people, who are maximally
handicapped by their condition; Braille is bulky and hard to produce;
Braille is expensive; Braille is antiquated and obsolete; etc. etc.
With these kinds of attitudes, teachers aren't motivated to teach
Braille, and are more inclined to delay or avoid teaching Braille
whenever possible.
I have wondered whether much of the negativity toward Braille comes
from sighted teachers' own difficulty in learning Braille themselves
during training. For a sighted adult learning Braille is indeed
difficult at first, and building fluency takes time and dedication.
Working from their own experiences, sighted teachers who struggled to
learn Braille may believe that Braille is equally grueling and
overwhelming for their young students--but of course, it's not because
learning to read at five is much different than learning to read at
twenty-five. Even if this error of judgment is only unconscious, it
can still affect their attitudes toward Braille and their motivation
to teach it. This issue might be worse when teachers only spend a few
months learning Braille and so they don't experience the successful
improvement that comes from using Braille for years.
So, I think that legislation is only part of the solution. We also
need to examine the psychology of the people involved in the system
and figure out how to get the key players more excited about Braille.
We want them to truly believe that blind children can achieve full
competitive literacy with Braille instead of forcing them to provide
literacy instruction that they don't really believe in. I think what
the NFB is doing with the TeachBlindStudents and Teacher of Tomorrow
programs is right on. We also just need to get more Braille teachers
into the field who have had good experiences with Braille themselves
and who truly believe in blind people. And, of course, the educational
system for blind kids is just not well-funded and there aren't enough
TVI's to go around. So even the good teachers are being spread thin
with huge caseloads and simply don't have the time to provide daily
instruction to every one of their students. We need to figure out how
to reorganize the system so that the teachers' time is spent as
efficiently as possible without skimping on important lessons. For
example, it seems like some of the special services given to blind
kids are not always necessary and not always as important as Braille.
I may be opening a whole other can of worms here, but it seems like
almost every blind student these days (at least in elementary school)
has a one-on-one aide who acts as the student's "eyes". Do all of us
really need that kind of help? Do all blind preschoolers need
occupational therapy, physical therapy etc.? what would happen if all
the money spent on the aides and therapists was instead spent to hire
more Braille teachers so that kindergartners received daily Braille
instruction? What would happen if children who were proficient in
Braille could read ahead in their books and then not be so dependent
on an aide to read the blackboard because they could follow along in
Braille? Wouldn't it make more sense to give a child intensive
one-on-one time with a TVI for a few years so they won't need very
much extra support in the future? I may be naive, but I would think
that would not only save the school districts some money in the end,
but also bring out a generation of blind students who are
self-sufficient and can become taxpaying adults much more easily.
These are just my thoughts and observations about how we can help make
change. I welcome any other thoughts or comments.
Best,
Arielle


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed May  9 04:52:06 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 00:52:06 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJDtwWWMz565nn-Tj=6OSYYrLK_US2k634dErW-DrN3ejA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALAYQJDtwWWMz565nn-Tj=6OSYYrLK_US2k634dErW-DrN3ejA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C781C0E325554711A873B36D201A1B6A@OwnerPC>

Arielle,
All good points.  I went to a resourceful and rich county school system 
While IMO my O&M teachers did not have high expectations and encouraged 
overliance on vision and memorizing routes, my vision teachers or TVIS as 
they are now called, were demanding.  Some more than others.  My first one 
is actually nationally known and wrote books on teaching braille published 
by AFB.
She taught me print and realized its limitations such as fatigue and 
slowness. She then taught me braille. However since I learned it in second 
grade, I had to catch up with my peers and this took a few years.  I was 
expected to read during the summer. she sent braille material home and the 
print copy too so my parents could read with me.  I was drilled on the 
letters and later on what each letter represented as a word. I had spelling 
tests in braille. Also, a good thing they required me to do was this.  Some 
blind people struggle with spelling and literacy because of seeing only 
braille contractions. I was required to write the contraction if I knew it 
and spell the word out in all its letters, in other words grade 1 braille.
I did this for the class spelling tests, not the ones I had for learning 
braille.

This way I learned the spelling with my classmates, but also the  TVI saw 
what braille contractions I knew and remembered.
I took most exams in braille when my skills were ready for it, maybe in 
fourth or fifth grade. I had mostly multiple choice ones; so I just circled 
or wrote down my  answer. Same tests as everyone else at the same time; if I 
needed it, I had extra time for them.
In upper grades, some textbooks they gave me both formats, so I had a 
choice. I had the braille text and the text from rfb.  I often used a combo 
of the two. I might listen to the chapter on tape, but skim for the 
highlights in braille.
However, the caseload of my TVIs was big and yes they could not spend as 
much time as they wanted to.  However, they did encourage practice at home 
and in class.  So some of it was up to me. If I did not want to learn and 
practice, I would not have improved.  It shouldn't be up to a student to 
take that responsibility, but we do given the situation.  Those students who 
did not read regularly in braille did not become as proficient.
Sighted students have to do some on their own too, but the difference is 
that a blind student can often get by with audio and a sighted kid cannot.

For the braille crisis to stop, IMO we need a team approach; the TVI, parent 
and student have to be willing to make the commitment.

And, maybe not all kids need OT; that is why you have an individualized 
plan; I know I benefited from it and PT though. Instead of that, hmm, maybe 
a reading specialist. I suggest this because a reading specialist can help 
with learning deficits and weaknesses. My mom thought I had a learning 
disability and sometimes I think so too. For me my deficit was fluency. a 
reading specialist could help in this effort; help the child decode faster 
and therefore comprehend the words and with rapid decoding and comprehension 
comes fluency.  A reading specialist could also fill in the gaps IMO when 
the TVI isn't there.  This assumes the child needs help in reading though. 
But I suspect most blind kids do. Its my experience the regular ed classroom 
activities do not translate well to good emmergent braille literacy. If you 
all are not familiar  with education terms, some of this may not make sense; 
fluency is reading at a steady pace and decode means translating the letters 
to sounds in your head and forming words.

For instance, in first and second grade, we read as a class; the teacher 
pointed to words on the board or her book and everyone read together. 
Another activity is the teacher wrote on a board or transparency.  Now a 
days probably a smart board. Anyway, then she has the class edit it 
together.  Still another activity involves matching pictures to words so you 
learn what they mean.  My point is that these rely on seeing the teacher's 
cues or pictures or something.

A blind student needs equivalent activities to develop literacy skills. 
Maybe a reading specialist in collaboration with  a TVI could fill this 
need. Just a thought though which will likely not happen.


-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 12:09 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Hi all,
It is obvious to all of us that we need to take action to ensure that
the current and future generations of blind children will get the
Braille instruction they are entitled to and be held to the same
reading and writing standards as the sighted. However, I fear the
solution is much more complicated than just passing a national Braille
bill. While I am not terribly familiar with Braille legislation, I
have definitely seen cases where even in states with laws on their
books mandating Braille instruction, kids are falling through the
cracks and not getting it. I know Arizona has adopted a Braille bill
mandating that Braille is the "presumed reading medium" for all blind
children unless the entire IEP team (including the child's parents)
determines that the child can read and write optimally with print. But
even in Arizona and other states with similar laws, some kids are not
getting Braille. There are many ways teachers or school districts can
get around the legal mandates. For example they can simply delay
holding an IEP meeting for a child or delay giving tests to determine
whether or not the child is a functional print reader. They can agree
to provide Braille but then only give a child 30 minutes per week of
instruction because that's all the time the TVI has to work with each
student. I've even heard of one case where a TVI insisted a particular
child wasn't really legally blind even though this was clearly spelled
out by the child's eye specialists. Passing a national Braille bill is
an important step toward making change, but it won't be a viable
solution by itself unless everyone involved actually wants to obey the
laws rather than finding loopholes around them, and when schools have
the resources to provide the amount and quality of Braille instruction
they are required to provide.
There are several serious problems with the system for educating blind
children that need to be addressed in different ways. The educational
system has long been dominated by professionals who are trained to
view blindness as a deficit. Because of this overarching philosophy,
they are not naturally inclined to aim toward giving blind and sighted
students the same standard of education. I think there has always been
too much of a focus in the blindness field about what blind people
cannot do or what we do differently, rather than what we can do and
what we share in common with sighted students. There is a tendency to
be "reactive" and respond to deficits after they occur rather than
being "proactive" and preventing kids from getting behind in the first
place.
There are also lots of very negative attitudes about Braille floating
around in the minds of some blindness professionals. Braille is slow;
Braille is hard to learn; Braille sets a blind child apart from
others; Braille is only for totally blind people, who are maximally
handicapped by their condition; Braille is bulky and hard to produce;
Braille is expensive; Braille is antiquated and obsolete; etc. etc.
With these kinds of attitudes, teachers aren't motivated to teach
Braille, and are more inclined to delay or avoid teaching Braille
whenever possible.
I have wondered whether much of the negativity toward Braille comes
from sighted teachers' own difficulty in learning Braille themselves
during training. For a sighted adult learning Braille is indeed
difficult at first, and building fluency takes time and dedication.
Working from their own experiences, sighted teachers who struggled to
learn Braille may believe that Braille is equally grueling and
overwhelming for their young students--but of course, it's not because
learning to read at five is much different than learning to read at
twenty-five. Even if this error of judgment is only unconscious, it
can still affect their attitudes toward Braille and their motivation
to teach it. This issue might be worse when teachers only spend a few
months learning Braille and so they don't experience the successful
improvement that comes from using Braille for years.
So, I think that legislation is only part of the solution. We also
need to examine the psychology of the people involved in the system
and figure out how to get the key players more excited about Braille.
We want them to truly believe that blind children can achieve full
competitive literacy with Braille instead of forcing them to provide
literacy instruction that they don't really believe in. I think what
the NFB is doing with the TeachBlindStudents and Teacher of Tomorrow
programs is right on. We also just need to get more Braille teachers
into the field who have had good experiences with Braille themselves
and who truly believe in blind people. And, of course, the educational
system for blind kids is just not well-funded and there aren't enough
TVI's to go around. So even the good teachers are being spread thin
with huge caseloads and simply don't have the time to provide daily
instruction to every one of their students. We need to figure out how
to reorganize the system so that the teachers' time is spent as
efficiently as possible without skimping on important lessons. For
example, it seems like some of the special services given to blind
kids are not always necessary and not always as important as Braille.
I may be opening a whole other can of worms here, but it seems like
almost every blind student these days (at least in elementary school)
has a one-on-one aide who acts as the student's "eyes". Do all of us
really need that kind of help? Do all blind preschoolers need
occupational therapy, physical therapy etc.? what would happen if all
the money spent on the aides and therapists was instead spent to hire
more Braille teachers so that kindergartners received daily Braille
instruction? What would happen if children who were proficient in
Braille could read ahead in their books and then not be so dependent
on an aide to read the blackboard because they could follow along in
Braille? Wouldn't it make more sense to give a child intensive
one-on-one time with a TVI for a few years so they won't need very
much extra support in the future? I may be naive, but I would think
that would not only save the school districts some money in the end,
but also bring out a generation of blind students who are
self-sufficient and can become taxpaying adults much more easily.
These are just my thoughts and observations about how we can help make
change. I welcome any other thoughts or comments.
Best,
Arielle

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From thebluesisloose at gmail.com  Wed May  9 07:30:07 2012
From: thebluesisloose at gmail.com (Beth)
Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 01:30:07 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
Message-ID: <4faa1d02.04a93c0a.4b72.5ebb@mx.google.com>

I love all your comments, Arielle.  I see too many blind people 
sitting on their butts and collecting welfare bnefits, not 
reading Braille early enough, that it breaks my heart.  We do 
know that 70% of the blind are sitting in their homes, 
unemployed.  I happen to be one of only 10%, and so are you, my 
friends at CCB, a friend in California, no, two friends from 
California, three friends from California actually.  Sorry for 
the repetitiveness here, but there are quite a few people I know 
who are Braille users and they are proficient.  There are lots of 
Braille people on this list I'm sure who actually attest to the 
functionality they experience with it.  Like, for example, there 
are people I went to CCB with who can attest to it being harder 
at first, but when you learn Braille, it is a real life saver.  
The National Braille Bill is simply not enough as you point out.  
I observed the same things as you did with aids and therapists.  
There are, of course, blind people with physical secondary or 
mental secondary disabilities/illnesses that affect their ability 
to concentrate, walk, read, etc.  For instance, I have a mental 
illness that may affect my ability to cross streets safely and 
didn't realize the propensity I had to have nervous attacks--if I 
may use such wording to describe the feeling like a nervous wreck 
at certain turn island corners and intersections--and lose 
concentration.  My biggest concerns at that point are getting 
across the street without being beeped at or hit by a car.  We at 
CCB had suffered a loss before and I want to avoid the loss of 
life associated with being hit by a car.  Thankfully, the mental 
illness does not affect my ability to read.  Reading is actually 
an escape for me.  I learned that imagery in the books I read is 
a good guided imagery exercise in what we call improving the 
moment when we are under stress.  I usually pick out a fantasy 
novel for that purpose because such things are loaded with 
imagery.  Fiction does that to you.  And, thankfully, Braille 
saves the day!
	We have to strike a balance between giving the extra 
services to blind children, or perhaps strike a delicate 
balance when the child has a secondary disability like my 
friend Jason, who has a heart defect and Fetal Alcohol 
Syndrome.  That can turn things around to the worst possible 
scenario.  But he is resilient.  How many other blind 
children are that wagy though?  Is Hank Miller that way?  
There aren't always kids who are resilient with themselves 
and their disability(s).  I'm sure that at least now that 
Hank's getting the Braille instruction he needs to get, 
there won't be any complaints and he can catch up.  25 years 
old and still in high school is a bit of an exaggeration on 
someone's part.  Thankfully, I didn't need to have too many 
services when I was little, but because my mother didn't 
play with me very often--she worked and then had to get 
ready to get married, etc., then she spent her day paying 
more attention to the TV or work and other things--I didn't 
get a good bit of physical play I had to have as a young 
child.  I had to go to a special early learning program and 
learn how to play.  Weird.
Not to make this message any longer than it has to be, but I 
believe that Braille literacy indeed should come before anything 
else, but when others have different disabilities, they have 
problems walking, etc., we have to strike a balance.
Beth
 ----- Original Message -----
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 22:09:44 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Hi all,
It is obvious to all of us that we need to take action to ensure 
that
the current and future generations of blind children will get the
Braille instruction they are entitled to and be held to the same
reading and writing standards as the sighted. However, I fear the
solution is much more complicated than just passing a national 
Braille
bill. While I am not terribly familiar with Braille legislation, 
I
have definitely seen cases where even in states with laws on 
their
books mandating Braille instruction, kids are falling through the
cracks and not getting it. I know Arizona has adopted a Braille 
bill
mandating that Braille is the "presumed reading medium" for all 
blind
children unless the entire IEP team (including the child's 
parents)
determines that the child can read and write optimally with 
print. But
even in Arizona and other states with similar laws, some kids are 
not
getting Braille. There are many ways teachers or school districts 
can
get around the legal mandates. For example they can simply delay
holding an IEP meeting for a child or delay giving tests to 
determine
whether or not the child is a functional print reader. They can 
agree
to provide Braille but then only give a child 30 minutes per week 
of
instruction because that's all the time the TVI has to work with 
each
student. I've even heard of one case where a TVI insisted a 
particular
child wasn't really legally blind even though this was clearly 
spelled
out by the child's eye specialists. Passing a national Braille 
bill is
an important step toward making change, but it won't be a viable
solution by itself unless everyone involved actually wants to 
obey the
laws rather than finding loopholes around them, and when schools 
have
the resources to provide the amount and quality of Braille 
instruction
they are required to provide.
There are several serious problems with the system for educating 
blind
children that need to be addressed in different ways. The 
educational
system has long been dominated by professionals who are trained 
to
view blindness as a deficit. Because of this overarching 
philosophy,
they are not naturally inclined to aim toward giving blind and 
sighted
students the same standard of education. I think there has always 
been
too much of a focus in the blindness field about what blind 
people
cannot do or what we do differently, rather than what we can do 
and
what we share in common with sighted students. There is a 
tendency to
be "reactive" and respond to deficits after they occur rather 
than
being "proactive" and preventing kids from getting behind in the 
first
place.
There are also lots of very negative attitudes about Braille 
floating
around in the minds of some blindness professionals. Braille is 
slow;
Braille is hard to learn; Braille sets a blind child apart from
others; Braille is only for totally blind people, who are 
maximally
handicapped by their condition; Braille is bulky and hard to 
produce;
Braille is expensive; Braille is antiquated and obsolete; etc. 
etc.
With these kinds of attitudes, teachers aren't motivated to teach
Braille, and are more inclined to delay or avoid teaching Braille
whenever possible.
I have wondered whether much of the negativity toward Braille 
comes
from sighted teachers' own difficulty in learning Braille 
themselves
during training. For a sighted adult learning Braille is indeed
difficult at first, and building fluency takes time and 
dedication.
Working from their own experiences, sighted teachers who 
struggled to
learn Braille may believe that Braille is equally grueling and
overwhelming for their young students--but of course, it's not 
because
learning to read at five is much different than learning to read 
at
twenty-five. Even if this error of judgment is only unconscious, 
it
can still affect their attitudes toward Braille and their 
motivation
to teach it. This issue might be worse when teachers only spend a 
few
months learning Braille and so they don't experience the 
successful
improvement that comes from using Braille for years.
So, I think that legislation is only part of the solution. We 
also
need to examine the psychology of the people involved in the 
system
and figure out how to get the key players more excited about 
Braille.
We want them to truly believe that blind children can achieve 
full
competitive literacy with Braille instead of forcing them to 
provide
literacy instruction that they don't really believe in. I think 
what
the NFB is doing with the TeachBlindStudents and Teacher of 
Tomorrow
programs is right on. We also just need to get more Braille 
teachers
into the field who have had good experiences with Braille 
themselves
and who truly believe in blind people. And, of course, the 
educational
system for blind kids is just not well-funded and there aren't 
enough
TVI's to go around. So even the good teachers are being spread 
thin
with huge caseloads and simply don't have the time to provide 
daily
instruction to every one of their students. We need to figure out 
how
to reorganize the system so that the teachers' time is spent as
efficiently as possible without skimping on important lessons. 
For
example, it seems like some of the special services given to 
blind
kids are not always necessary and not always as important as 
Braille.
I may be opening a whole other can of worms here, but it seems 
like
almost every blind student these days (at least in elementary 
school)
has a one-on-one aide who acts as the student's "eyes". Do all of 
us
really need that kind of help? Do all blind preschoolers need
occupational therapy, physical therapy etc.? what would happen if 
all
the money spent on the aides and therapists was instead spent to 
hire
more Braille teachers so that kindergartners received daily 
Braille
instruction? What would happen if children who were proficient in
Braille could read ahead in their books and then not be so 
dependent
on an aide to read the blackboard because they could follow along 
in
Braille? Wouldn't it make more sense to give a child intensive
one-on-one time with a TVI for a few years so they won't need 
very
much extra support in the future? I may be naive, but I would 
think
that would not only save the school districts some money in the 
end,
but also bring out a generation of blind students who are
self-sufficient and can become taxpaying adults much more easily.
These are just my thoughts and observations about how we can help 
make
change. I welcome any other thoughts or comments.
Best,
Arielle

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/thebluesisloo
se%40gmail.com


From dandrews at visi.com  Wed May  9 07:46:41 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 02:46:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] BlackBerry screen reader app to help blind
Message-ID: <auto-000059698820@mailfront4.g2host.com>


>
>
><http://www.technobloom.com/research-in-motion-releases-free-blackberry-screen-reader-app-to-help-blind/228518/>Research 
>in Motion releases free BlackBerry screen reader app to help blind.
>
>
>
>
>
>Research in Motion has seen their market share 
>dip all the way down into the single digits over 
>the past couple of years, but the company has 
>not stopped trying to find that one place a 
>BlackBerry phone would be a benefit.  Today, the 
>company announced plans to launch a new mobile 
>app that helps the blind “see” what is on 
>their handset screen.  The BlackBerry Screen 
>Reader software helps those that are blind stay 
>connected with the information that is most 
>important to them.  With the released software, 
>Research in Motion shows their support to help 
>customers that have disabilities.
>
>
>
>According to the press release issued regarding 
>the announcement, Senior Product Manager, Greg 
>Fields, said “We are excited to introduce 
>BlackBerry Screen Reader as part of our suite of 
>accessibility solutions for BlackBerry 
>smartphones.”  The BlackBerry Screen Reader 
>can be downloaded for free from 
><http://www.blackberry.com/screenreader>www.blackberry.com/screenreader 
>and the mobile app is compatible with the 
>BlackBerry Curve 9350, 9360 and the 9370 
>smartphones.  The new screen reader app is 
>available in French, English, Italian, German 
>and Spanish.  The app will help those that are 
>blind operate their BlackBerry smartphone with little to no hassle.
>
>Some of the key features that are listed for the 
>BlackBerry Screen Reader include:
>
>Support for core applications – Users can easily 
>access core BlackBerry applications including 
>email, calendar, phone calls and more.  Speech 
>settings – users can customize the 
>text-to-speech settings (volume, pitch and 
>speech rate) and preferences for punctuation, 
>verbosity and password security.  Keyboard 
>shortcuts – Users can set speech and audio 
>preferences quickly and easily through 
>(physical) keyboard shortcuts Accessible 
>documentation – User Guide available in 
>accessible HTML through a desktop web 
>browser.  More information can be found at BlackBerry.com/accessibility.
>
>Many experts believe that Research in Motion is 
>not going to be around very much longer and 
>might not even be a good prospect for a 
>potential buyout.  According to numbers recently 
>posted online, RIM shares have dropped more than 
>70 percent in the past 12 months with the market 
>share dropping over $72 billion in the last 
>three years.  BlackBerry released 12 handsets in 
>2011 and so far this year only 1 with the 
>BlackBerry Curve 9220.  Rumors that hit the Web 
>earlier this year included a possible buyout by 
>Samsung, but since January nothing has been announced by either company.

From dandrews at visi.com  Wed May  9 08:02:28 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 03:02:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with Blio
In-Reply-To: <776F37CC-5BBE-40FB-9F5D-8AC0FC52949A@gmail.com>
References: <4fa986f1.0f0c650a.28cb.1a34@mx.google.com>
	<A29FA10B-0666-4AFC-B379-D9B4474F764C@gmail.com>
	<776F37CC-5BBE-40FB-9F5D-8AC0FC52949A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000060372046@mailfront3.g2host.com>

Some authors believe that the text to speech rendering of a book, is 
another version, and that they should be paid extra for making it 
available.  Hence, if they don't get paid more, they disable that version.


Dave

At 05:00 PM 5/8/2012, you wrote:
>I know, I just don't see why they would choose to disable it. Maybe 
>it costs more or something.
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On May 8, 2012, at 4:53 PM, Jorge Paez <jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Interesting.
> > I saw some books on the site version that do say they have 
> "text-to-speech enabled" so it should've been there somewhere.
> > As far as why it would've been disabled,
> > I think its because that's a decision authors/publishers make, 
> and I think, legally, the company, in this case KNFB can't force 
> them to do that.
> >
> >
> >
> > On May 8, 2012, at 4:49 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
> >
> >> Hi y'all,
> >>
> >> Recently, I got the Blio app, which is an acessible Ebook reader 
> for the iPhone. Yeserday, I bought a book from the Blio store and 
> attempted to rea it only to find that the text-to-speech feature 
> was not enabled. I doubt there is any way to manually enable this 
> feature, but if there is, would you please let me know? What 
> troubled me about this was that nowhere in the product details did 
> it tell me whether text-to-speech was enabled or not. And just out 
> of curiosity, why would text-to-speech not be enabled on a website 
> specifically designed for blind users?
> >> Yours,
> >> Sophie Trist



From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Wed May  9 11:31:32 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 06:31:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio
Message-ID: <4faa55b9.0d86650a.64e5.5941@mx.google.com>

Thanks. I ended up just downloading it from iTunes. But that's a 
good suggestion for the future.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:10:08 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] problems with blio

Just download the book from Bookshare, and read it on your IPad, 
and
Focus 40 Blue Braille Display, if you have one.
That's what I'm going to do, when I get my IPad, and IPhone.
The displays are $26.95.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/8/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
 Well... yeah, but that's a huge pain in the butt and I don't
 recommend it. You have to select each individual page and read
 it. For a one or two page document, that's not bad, but for a
 400-page book it would be kinda hard.

  ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
 To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 20:02:28 -0400
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] problems with blio

 Hi Sophie,

 Hmm... I'm not sure. Would you be able to just use VoiceOver to
 read it?

 Chris

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
 [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
 Of Sophie Trist
 Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 4:49 PM
 To: nabs
 Subject: [nabs-l] problems with blio

 Hi y'all,

 Recently, I got the Blio app, which is an acessible Ebook reader
 for the
 iPhone. Yeserday, I bought a book from the Blio store and
 attempted to rea
 it only to find that the text-to-speech feature was not enabled.
 I doubt
 there is any way to manually enable this feature, but if there
 is, would you
 please let me know? What troubled me about this was that nowhere
 in the
 product details did it tell me whether text-to-speech was 
enabled
 or not.
 And just out of curiosity, why would text-to-speech not be
 enabled on a
 website specifically designed for blind users?
 Yours,
 Sophie Trist

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed May  9 16:04:47 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 12:04:47 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
In-Reply-To: <4faa1d02.04a93c0a.4b72.5ebb@mx.google.com>
References: <4faa1d02.04a93c0a.4b72.5ebb@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <FCE338FB019547588D33B1ED521E97DA@OwnerPC>

Hi,
it is a balance; that is why ieps are individualized.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Beth
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 3:30 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

I love all your comments, Arielle.  I see too many blind people
sitting on their butts and collecting welfare bnefits, not
reading Braille early enough, that it breaks my heart.  We do
know that 70% of the blind are sitting in their homes,
unemployed.  I happen to be one of only 10%, and so are you, my
friends at CCB, a friend in California, no, two friends from
California, three friends from California actually.  Sorry for
the repetitiveness here, but there are quite a few people I know
who are Braille users and they are proficient.  There are lots of
Braille people on this list I'm sure who actually attest to the
functionality they experience with it.  Like, for example, there
are people I went to CCB with who can attest to it being harder
at first, but when you learn Braille, it is a real life saver.
The National Braille Bill is simply not enough as you point out.
I observed the same things as you did with aids and therapists.
There are, of course, blind people with physical secondary or
mental secondary disabilities/illnesses that affect their ability
to concentrate, walk, read, etc.  For instance, I have a mental
illness that may affect my ability to cross streets safely and
didn't realize the propensity I had to have nervous attacks--if I
may use such wording to describe the feeling like a nervous wreck
at certain turn island corners and intersections--and lose
concentration.  My biggest concerns at that point are getting
across the street without being beeped at or hit by a car.  We at
CCB had suffered a loss before and I want to avoid the loss of
life associated with being hit by a car.  Thankfully, the mental
illness does not affect my ability to read.  Reading is actually
an escape for me.  I learned that imagery in the books I read is
a good guided imagery exercise in what we call improving the
moment when we are under stress.  I usually pick out a fantasy
novel for that purpose because such things are loaded with
imagery.  Fiction does that to you.  And, thankfully, Braille
saves the day!
We have to strike a balance between giving the extra
services to blind children, or perhaps strike a delicate
balance when the child has a secondary disability like my
friend Jason, who has a heart defect and Fetal Alcohol
Syndrome.  That can turn things around to the worst possible
scenario.  But he is resilient.  How many other blind
children are that wagy though?  Is Hank Miller that way?
There aren't always kids who are resilient with themselves
and their disability(s).  I'm sure that at least now that
Hank's getting the Braille instruction he needs to get,
there won't be any complaints and he can catch up.  25 years
old and still in high school is a bit of an exaggeration on
someone's part.  Thankfully, I didn't need to have too many
services when I was little, but because my mother didn't
play with me very often--she worked and then had to get
ready to get married, etc., then she spent her day paying
more attention to the TV or work and other things--I didn't
get a good bit of physical play I had to have as a young
child.  I had to go to a special early learning program and
learn how to play.  Weird.
Not to make this message any longer than it has to be, but I
believe that Braille literacy indeed should come before anything
else, but when others have different disabilities, they have
problems walking, etc., we have to strike a balance.
Beth
----- Original Message -----
From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 8 May 2012 22:09:44 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Hi all,
It is obvious to all of us that we need to take action to ensure
that
the current and future generations of blind children will get the
Braille instruction they are entitled to and be held to the same
reading and writing standards as the sighted. However, I fear the
solution is much more complicated than just passing a national
Braille
bill. While I am not terribly familiar with Braille legislation,
I
have definitely seen cases where even in states with laws on
their
books mandating Braille instruction, kids are falling through the
cracks and not getting it. I know Arizona has adopted a Braille
bill
mandating that Braille is the "presumed reading medium" for all
blind
children unless the entire IEP team (including the child's
parents)
determines that the child can read and write optimally with
print. But
even in Arizona and other states with similar laws, some kids are
not
getting Braille. There are many ways teachers or school districts
can
get around the legal mandates. For example they can simply delay
holding an IEP meeting for a child or delay giving tests to
determine
whether or not the child is a functional print reader. They can
agree
to provide Braille but then only give a child 30 minutes per week
of
instruction because that's all the time the TVI has to work with
each
student. I've even heard of one case where a TVI insisted a
particular
child wasn't really legally blind even though this was clearly
spelled
out by the child's eye specialists. Passing a national Braille
bill is
an important step toward making change, but it won't be a viable
solution by itself unless everyone involved actually wants to
obey the
laws rather than finding loopholes around them, and when schools
have
the resources to provide the amount and quality of Braille
instruction
they are required to provide.
There are several serious problems with the system for educating
blind
children that need to be addressed in different ways. The
educational
system has long been dominated by professionals who are trained
to
view blindness as a deficit. Because of this overarching
philosophy,
they are not naturally inclined to aim toward giving blind and
sighted
students the same standard of education. I think there has always
been
too much of a focus in the blindness field about what blind
people
cannot do or what we do differently, rather than what we can do
and
what we share in common with sighted students. There is a
tendency to
be "reactive" and respond to deficits after they occur rather
than
being "proactive" and preventing kids from getting behind in the
first
place.
There are also lots of very negative attitudes about Braille
floating
around in the minds of some blindness professionals. Braille is
slow;
Braille is hard to learn; Braille sets a blind child apart from
others; Braille is only for totally blind people, who are
maximally
handicapped by their condition; Braille is bulky and hard to
produce;
Braille is expensive; Braille is antiquated and obsolete; etc.
etc.
With these kinds of attitudes, teachers aren't motivated to teach
Braille, and are more inclined to delay or avoid teaching Braille
whenever possible.
I have wondered whether much of the negativity toward Braille
comes
from sighted teachers' own difficulty in learning Braille
themselves
during training. For a sighted adult learning Braille is indeed
difficult at first, and building fluency takes time and
dedication.
Working from their own experiences, sighted teachers who
struggled to
learn Braille may believe that Braille is equally grueling and
overwhelming for their young students--but of course, it's not
because
learning to read at five is much different than learning to read
at
twenty-five. Even if this error of judgment is only unconscious,
it
can still affect their attitudes toward Braille and their
motivation
to teach it. This issue might be worse when teachers only spend a
few
months learning Braille and so they don't experience the
successful
improvement that comes from using Braille for years.
So, I think that legislation is only part of the solution. We
also
need to examine the psychology of the people involved in the
system
and figure out how to get the key players more excited about
Braille.
We want them to truly believe that blind children can achieve
full
competitive literacy with Braille instead of forcing them to
provide
literacy instruction that they don't really believe in. I think
what
the NFB is doing with the TeachBlindStudents and Teacher of
Tomorrow
programs is right on. We also just need to get more Braille
teachers
into the field who have had good experiences with Braille
themselves
and who truly believe in blind people. And, of course, the
educational
system for blind kids is just not well-funded and there aren't
enough
TVI's to go around. So even the good teachers are being spread
thin
with huge caseloads and simply don't have the time to provide
daily
instruction to every one of their students. We need to figure out
how
to reorganize the system so that the teachers' time is spent as
efficiently as possible without skimping on important lessons.
For
example, it seems like some of the special services given to
blind
kids are not always necessary and not always as important as
Braille.
I may be opening a whole other can of worms here, but it seems
like
almost every blind student these days (at least in elementary
school)
has a one-on-one aide who acts as the student's "eyes". Do all of
us
really need that kind of help? Do all blind preschoolers need
occupational therapy, physical therapy etc.? what would happen if
all
the money spent on the aides and therapists was instead spent to
hire
more Braille teachers so that kindergartners received daily
Braille
instruction? What would happen if children who were proficient in
Braille could read ahead in their books and then not be so
dependent
on an aide to read the blackboard because they could follow along
in
Braille? Wouldn't it make more sense to give a child intensive
one-on-one time with a TVI for a few years so they won't need
very
much extra support in the future? I may be naive, but I would
think
that would not only save the school districts some money in the
end,
but also bring out a generation of blind students who are
self-sufficient and can become taxpaying adults much more easily.
These are just my thoughts and observations about how we can help
make
change. I welcome any other thoughts or comments.
Best,
Arielle

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From SALISBURYJ08 at students.ecu.edu  Wed May  9 19:35:11 2012
From: SALISBURYJ08 at students.ecu.edu (Salisbury, Justin Mark)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 19:35:11 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
Message-ID: <88680D55F430CF4593F993CADE7B0EDA3F807CA9@SN2PRD0102MB127.prod.exchangelabs.com>

I agree with the points that Arielle made, and I particularly think that we need to focus on the proper training of Braille teachers at this point in the game.  I don't think we currently have enough good Braille teachers in the United States to fulfill the needs of an optimal system.  

I was fortunate enough to grow up in Connecticut, so I was urged to start learning Braille by my high school and state agency at the beginning of my junior year, only a few months after I became blind.  I wanted to resist it at first because no kid likes the idea of more classes that aren't dominated by the opposite sex or physical activity, but I soon realized that my school and state agency were right; Braille is important!

I just finished 4 years of college in North Carolina, where I am also finishing my second term as President of the NC Association of Blind Students.  I have learned a lot about both states' systems, and I observe a vast difference in the prioritization of Braille.  There are often trained Braille teachers in the wealthy and densely-populated school districts in NC, but students with residual vision are encouraged to depend on what they have left.  I wouldn't know Braille today if I had grown up in North Carolina.  In my understanding, students who are not from equipped school districts who wish to receive Braille instruction are often forced to attend the residential school for the blind in Raleigh.  Veteran teachers at the residential school for the blind have told me that it has become the place for students with multiple disabilities or from impoverished backgrounds (while anyone who can be mainstreamed is), and they have seen a decrease in the morale and expectations as this shift has occurred.

I bring up the residential school topic because, if we were able to make the shift tomorrow to a most efficient system, I believe we would need all of the students and Braille teachers to be located in centralized hubs.  I believe attending a residential school should be a choice, but it seems to currently be a requirement for many students if they want a shot at learning Braille. 

We need more Braille teachers who are properly trained.  

The Next Step:
To inspire people to enter the field, we need widespread budgetary allocations for the positions of Braille teachers.  North Carolina Central University consistently struggles to fill its TVI program because people aren't applying.

We should all write a book on this topic.

Justin

Justin M. Salisbury
Undergraduate Student
The Honors College
East Carolina University
salisburyj08 at students.ecu.edu

“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD



From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Wed May  9 19:55:39 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 14:55:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
Message-ID: <4faacbe0.1323640a.5771.ffff9910@mx.google.com>

Arielle,

With all due respect, I disagree. I am totally blind and started 
my Braille instruction when I was three. I have a one-on-one 
aide. This person's job is to make sure I can navigate safely 
between classes and around the school. She also makes sure I have 
all the braille materials when and where I need them. I also 
believe that it is not ncessarily a question of money. It's a 
question of getting good TVI's. Those are pretty hard to find. To 
me, hope lies in us. Lots of college-age blind people are working 
to become TVI's and OandM teachers. If more blind people became 
TVI's, more blind children could get the services they needed.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 9 May 2012 00:52:06 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Arielle,
All good points.  I went to a resourceful and rich county school 
system
While IMO my O&M teachers did not have high expectations and 
encouraged
overliance on vision and memorizing routes, my vision teachers or 
TVIS as
they are now called, were demanding.  Some more than others.  My 
first one
is actually nationally known and wrote books on teaching braille 
published
by AFB.
She taught me print and realized its limitations such as fatigue 
and
slowness. She then taught me braille. However since I learned it 
in second
grade, I had to catch up with my peers and this took a few years.  
I was
expected to read during the summer. she sent braille material 
home and the
print copy too so my parents could read with me.  I was drilled 
on the
letters and later on what each letter represented as a word. I 
had spelling
tests in braille. Also, a good thing they required me to do was 
this.  Some
blind people struggle with spelling and literacy because of 
seeing only
braille contractions. I was required to write the contraction if 
I knew it
and spell the word out in all its letters, in other words grade 1 
braille.
I did this for the class spelling tests, not the ones I had for 
learning
braille.

This way I learned the spelling with my classmates, but also the  
TVI saw
what braille contractions I knew and remembered.
I took most exams in braille when my skills were ready for it, 
maybe in
fourth or fifth grade. I had mostly multiple choice ones; so I 
just circled
or wrote down my  answer. Same tests as everyone else at the same 
time; if I
needed it, I had extra time for them.
In upper grades, some textbooks they gave me both formats, so I 
had a
choice. I had the braille text and the text from rfb.  I often 
used a combo
of the two. I might listen to the chapter on tape, but skim for 
the
highlights in braille.
However, the caseload of my TVIs was big and yes they could not 
spend as
much time as they wanted to.  However, they did encourage 
practice at home
and in class.  So some of it was up to me. If I did not want to 
learn and
practice, I would not have improved.  It shouldn't be up to a 
student to
take that responsibility, but we do given the situation.  Those 
students who
did not read regularly in braille did not become as proficient.
Sighted students have to do some on their own too, but the 
difference is
that a blind student can often get by with audio and a sighted 
kid cannot.

For the braille crisis to stop, IMO we need a team approach; the 
TVI, parent
and student have to be willing to make the commitment.

And, maybe not all kids need OT; that is why you have an 
individualized
plan; I know I benefited from it and PT though. Instead of that, 
hmm, maybe
a reading specialist. I suggest this because a reading specialist 
can help
with learning deficits and weaknesses. My mom thought I had a 
learning
disability and sometimes I think so too. For me my deficit was 
fluency. a
reading specialist could help in this effort; help the child 
decode faster
and therefore comprehend the words and with rapid decoding and 
comprehension
comes fluency.  A reading specialist could also fill in the gaps 
IMO when
the TVI isn't there.  This assumes the child needs help in 
reading though.
But I suspect most blind kids do. Its my experience the regular 
ed classroom
activities do not translate well to good emmergent braille 
literacy. If you
all are not familiar  with education terms, some of this may not 
make sense;
fluency is reading at a steady pace and decode means translating 
the letters
to sounds in your head and forming words.

For instance, in first and second grade, we read as a class; the 
teacher
pointed to words on the board or her book and everyone read 
together.
Another activity is the teacher wrote on a board or transparency.  
Now a
days probably a smart board. Anyway, then she has the class edit 
it
together.  Still another activity involves matching pictures to 
words so you
learn what they mean.  My point is that these rely on seeing the 
teacher's
cues or pictures or something.

A blind student needs equivalent activities to develop literacy 
skills.
Maybe a reading specialist in collaboration with  a TVI could 
fill this
need. Just a thought though which will likely not happen.


-----Original Message-----
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 12:09 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Hi all,
It is obvious to all of us that we need to take action to ensure 
that
the current and future generations of blind children will get the
Braille instruction they are entitled to and be held to the same
reading and writing standards as the sighted. However, I fear the
solution is much more complicated than just passing a national 
Braille
bill. While I am not terribly familiar with Braille legislation, 
I
have definitely seen cases where even in states with laws on 
their
books mandating Braille instruction, kids are falling through the
cracks and not getting it. I know Arizona has adopted a Braille 
bill
mandating that Braille is the "presumed reading medium" for all 
blind
children unless the entire IEP team (including the child's 
parents)
determines that the child can read and write optimally with 
print. But
even in Arizona and other states with similar laws, some kids are 
not
getting Braille. There are many ways teachers or school districts 
can
get around the legal mandates. For example they can simply delay
holding an IEP meeting for a child or delay giving tests to 
determine
whether or not the child is a functional print reader. They can 
agree
to provide Braille but then only give a child 30 minutes per week 
of
instruction because that's all the time the TVI has to work with 
each
student. I've even heard of one case where a TVI insisted a 
particular
child wasn't really legally blind even though this was clearly 
spelled
out by the child's eye specialists. Passing a national Braille 
bill is
an important step toward making change, but it won't be a viable
solution by itself unless everyone involved actually wants to 
obey the
laws rather than finding loopholes around them, and when schools 
have
the resources to provide the amount and quality of Braille 
instruction
they are required to provide.
There are several serious problems with the system for educating 
blind
children that need to be addressed in different ways. The 
educational
system has long been dominated by professionals who are trained 
to
view blindness as a deficit. Because of this overarching 
philosophy,
they are not naturally inclined to aim toward giving blind and 
sighted
students the same standard of education. I think there has always 
been
too much of a focus in the blindness field about what blind 
people
cannot do or what we do differently, rather than what we can do 
and
what we share in common with sighted students. There is a 
tendency to
be "reactive" and respond to deficits after they occur rather 
than
being "proactive" and preventing kids from getting behind in the 
first
place.
There are also lots of very negative attitudes about Braille 
floating
around in the minds of some blindness professionals. Braille is 
slow;
Braille is hard to learn; Braille sets a blind child apart from
others; Braille is only for totally blind people, who are 
maximally
handicapped by their condition; Braille is bulky and hard to 
produce;
Braille is expensive; Braille is antiquated and obsolete; etc. 
etc.
With these kinds of attitudes, teachers aren't motivated to teach
Braille, and are more inclined to delay or avoid teaching Braille
whenever possible.
I have wondered whether much of the negativity toward Braille 
comes
from sighted teachers' own difficulty in learning Braille 
themselves
during training. For a sighted adult learning Braille is indeed
difficult at first, and building fluency takes time and 
dedication.
Working from their own experiences, sighted teachers who 
struggled to
learn Braille may believe that Braille is equally grueling and
overwhelming for their young students--but of course, it's not 
because
learning to read at five is much different than learning to read 
at
twenty-five. Even if this error of judgment is only unconscious, 
it
can still affect their attitudes toward Braille and their 
motivation
to teach it. This issue might be worse when teachers only spend a 
few
months learning Braille and so they don't experience the 
successful
improvement that comes from using Braille for years.
So, I think that legislation is only part of the solution. We 
also
need to examine the psychology of the people involved in the 
system
and figure out how to get the key players more excited about 
Braille.
We want them to truly believe that blind children can achieve 
full
competitive literacy with Braille instead of forcing them to 
provide
literacy instruction that they don't really believe in. I think 
what
the NFB is doing with the TeachBlindStudents and Teacher of 
Tomorrow
programs is right on. We also just need to get more Braille 
teachers
into the field who have had good experiences with Braille 
themselves
and who truly believe in blind people. And, of course, the 
educational
system for blind kids is just not well-funded and there aren't 
enough
TVI's to go around. So even the good teachers are being spread 
thin
with huge caseloads and simply don't have the time to provide 
daily
instruction to every one of their students. We need to figure out 
how
to reorganize the system so that the teachers' time is spent as
efficiently as possible without skimping on important lessons. 
For
example, it seems like some of the special services given to 
blind
kids are not always necessary and not always as important as 
Braille.
I may be opening a whole other can of worms here, but it seems 
like
almost every blind student these days (at least in elementary 
school)
has a one-on-one aide who acts as the student's "eyes". Do all of 
us
really need that kind of help? Do all blind preschoolers need
occupational therapy, physical therapy etc.? what would happen if 
all
the money spent on the aides and therapists was instead spent to 
hire
more Braille teachers so that kindergartners received daily 
Braille
instruction? What would happen if children who were proficient in
Braille could read ahead in their books and then not be so 
dependent
on an aide to read the blackboard because they could follow along 
in
Braille? Wouldn't it make more sense to give a child intensive
one-on-one time with a TVI for a few years so they won't need 
very
much extra support in the future? I may be naive, but I would 
think
that would not only save the school districts some money in the 
end,
but also bring out a generation of blind students who are
self-sufficient and can become taxpaying adults much more easily.
These are just my thoughts and observations about how we can help 
make
change. I welcome any other thoughts or comments.
Best,
Arielle

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From jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com  Wed May  9 20:18:46 2012
From: jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 16:18:46 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
In-Reply-To: <4faacbe0.1323640a.5771.ffff9910@mx.google.com>
References: <4faacbe0.1323640a.5771.ffff9910@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <EC2F1036-7276-4C16-9D4B-65A964E5BFDF@gmail.com>

Sophie:
Although I agree with you as far as TVIs,
are aids really needed?
Is it helpful sometimes, maybe, but what if we started learning how to navigate on our own from about Elementary school?
Wouldn't that be more helpful?



On May 9, 2012, at 3:55 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:

> Arielle,
> 
> With all due respect, I disagree. I am totally blind and started my Braille instruction when I was three. I have a one-on-one aide. This person's job is to make sure I can navigate safely between classes and around the school. She also makes sure I have all the braille materials when and where I need them. I also believe that it is not ncessarily a question of money. It's a question of getting good TVI's. Those are pretty hard to find. To me, hope lies in us. Lots of college-age blind people are working to become TVI's and OandM teachers. If more blind people became TVI's, more blind children could get the services they needed.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 9 May 2012 00:52:06 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
> 
> Arielle,
> All good points.  I went to a resourceful and rich county school system
> While IMO my O&M teachers did not have high expectations and encouraged
> overliance on vision and memorizing routes, my vision teachers or TVIS as
> they are now called, were demanding.  Some more than others.  My first one
> is actually nationally known and wrote books on teaching braille published
> by AFB.
> She taught me print and realized its limitations such as fatigue and
> slowness. She then taught me braille. However since I learned it in second
> grade, I had to catch up with my peers and this took a few years.  I was
> expected to read during the summer. she sent braille material home and the
> print copy too so my parents could read with me.  I was drilled on the
> letters and later on what each letter represented as a word. I had spelling
> tests in braille. Also, a good thing they required me to do was this.  Some
> blind people struggle with spelling and literacy because of seeing only
> braille contractions. I was required to write the contraction if I knew it
> and spell the word out in all its letters, in other words grade 1 braille.
> I did this for the class spelling tests, not the ones I had for learning
> braille.
> 
> This way I learned the spelling with my classmates, but also the  TVI saw
> what braille contractions I knew and remembered.
> I took most exams in braille when my skills were ready for it, maybe in
> fourth or fifth grade. I had mostly multiple choice ones; so I just circled
> or wrote down my  answer. Same tests as everyone else at the same time; if I
> needed it, I had extra time for them.
> In upper grades, some textbooks they gave me both formats, so I had a
> choice. I had the braille text and the text from rfb.  I often used a combo
> of the two. I might listen to the chapter on tape, but skim for the
> highlights in braille.
> However, the caseload of my TVIs was big and yes they could not spend as
> much time as they wanted to.  However, they did encourage practice at home
> and in class.  So some of it was up to me. If I did not want to learn and
> practice, I would not have improved.  It shouldn't be up to a student to
> take that responsibility, but we do given the situation.  Those students who
> did not read regularly in braille did not become as proficient.
> Sighted students have to do some on their own too, but the difference is
> that a blind student can often get by with audio and a sighted kid cannot.
> 
> For the braille crisis to stop, IMO we need a team approach; the TVI, parent
> and student have to be willing to make the commitment.
> 
> And, maybe not all kids need OT; that is why you have an individualized
> plan; I know I benefited from it and PT though. Instead of that, hmm, maybe
> a reading specialist. I suggest this because a reading specialist can help
> with learning deficits and weaknesses. My mom thought I had a learning
> disability and sometimes I think so too. For me my deficit was fluency. a
> reading specialist could help in this effort; help the child decode faster
> and therefore comprehend the words and with rapid decoding and comprehension
> comes fluency.  A reading specialist could also fill in the gaps IMO when
> the TVI isn't there.  This assumes the child needs help in reading though.
> But I suspect most blind kids do. Its my experience the regular ed classroom
> activities do not translate well to good emmergent braille literacy. If you
> all are not familiar  with education terms, some of this may not make sense;
> fluency is reading at a steady pace and decode means translating the letters
> to sounds in your head and forming words.
> 
> For instance, in first and second grade, we read as a class; the teacher
> pointed to words on the board or her book and everyone read together.
> Another activity is the teacher wrote on a board or transparency.  Now a
> days probably a smart board. Anyway, then she has the class edit it
> together.  Still another activity involves matching pictures to words so you
> learn what they mean.  My point is that these rely on seeing the teacher's
> cues or pictures or something.
> 
> A blind student needs equivalent activities to develop literacy skills.
> Maybe a reading specialist in collaboration with  a TVI could fill this
> need. Just a thought though which will likely not happen.
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 12:09 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
> 
> Hi all,
> It is obvious to all of us that we need to take action to ensure that
> the current and future generations of blind children will get the
> Braille instruction they are entitled to and be held to the same
> reading and writing standards as the sighted. However, I fear the
> solution is much more complicated than just passing a national Braille
> bill. While I am not terribly familiar with Braille legislation, I
> have definitely seen cases where even in states with laws on their
> books mandating Braille instruction, kids are falling through the
> cracks and not getting it. I know Arizona has adopted a Braille bill
> mandating that Braille is the "presumed reading medium" for all blind
> children unless the entire IEP team (including the child's parents)
> determines that the child can read and write optimally with print. But
> even in Arizona and other states with similar laws, some kids are not
> getting Braille. There are many ways teachers or school districts can
> get around the legal mandates. For example they can simply delay
> holding an IEP meeting for a child or delay giving tests to determine
> whether or not the child is a functional print reader. They can agree
> to provide Braille but then only give a child 30 minutes per week of
> instruction because that's all the time the TVI has to work with each
> student. I've even heard of one case where a TVI insisted a particular
> child wasn't really legally blind even though this was clearly spelled
> out by the child's eye specialists. Passing a national Braille bill is
> an important step toward making change, but it won't be a viable
> solution by itself unless everyone involved actually wants to obey the
> laws rather than finding loopholes around them, and when schools have
> the resources to provide the amount and quality of Braille instruction
> they are required to provide.
> There are several serious problems with the system for educating blind
> children that need to be addressed in different ways. The educational
> system has long been dominated by professionals who are trained to
> view blindness as a deficit. Because of this overarching philosophy,
> they are not naturally inclined to aim toward giving blind and sighted
> students the same standard of education. I think there has always been
> too much of a focus in the blindness field about what blind people
> cannot do or what we do differently, rather than what we can do and
> what we share in common with sighted students. There is a tendency to
> be "reactive" and respond to deficits after they occur rather than
> being "proactive" and preventing kids from getting behind in the first
> place.
> There are also lots of very negative attitudes about Braille floating
> around in the minds of some blindness professionals. Braille is slow;
> Braille is hard to learn; Braille sets a blind child apart from
> others; Braille is only for totally blind people, who are maximally
> handicapped by their condition; Braille is bulky and hard to produce;
> Braille is expensive; Braille is antiquated and obsolete; etc. etc.
> With these kinds of attitudes, teachers aren't motivated to teach
> Braille, and are more inclined to delay or avoid teaching Braille
> whenever possible.
> I have wondered whether much of the negativity toward Braille comes
> from sighted teachers' own difficulty in learning Braille themselves
> during training. For a sighted adult learning Braille is indeed
> difficult at first, and building fluency takes time and dedication.
> Working from their own experiences, sighted teachers who struggled to
> learn Braille may believe that Braille is equally grueling and
> overwhelming for their young students--but of course, it's not because
> learning to read at five is much different than learning to read at
> twenty-five. Even if this error of judgment is only unconscious, it
> can still affect their attitudes toward Braille and their motivation
> to teach it. This issue might be worse when teachers only spend a few
> months learning Braille and so they don't experience the successful
> improvement that comes from using Braille for years.
> So, I think that legislation is only part of the solution. We also
> need to examine the psychology of the people involved in the system
> and figure out how to get the key players more excited about Braille.
> We want them to truly believe that blind children can achieve full
> competitive literacy with Braille instead of forcing them to provide
> literacy instruction that they don't really believe in. I think what
> the NFB is doing with the TeachBlindStudents and Teacher of Tomorrow
> programs is right on. We also just need to get more Braille teachers
> into the field who have had good experiences with Braille themselves
> and who truly believe in blind people. And, of course, the educational
> system for blind kids is just not well-funded and there aren't enough
> TVI's to go around. So even the good teachers are being spread thin
> with huge caseloads and simply don't have the time to provide daily
> instruction to every one of their students. We need to figure out how
> to reorganize the system so that the teachers' time is spent as
> efficiently as possible without skimping on important lessons. For
> example, it seems like some of the special services given to blind
> kids are not always necessary and not always as important as Braille.
> I may be opening a whole other can of worms here, but it seems like
> almost every blind student these days (at least in elementary school)
> has a one-on-one aide who acts as the student's "eyes". Do all of us
> really need that kind of help? Do all blind preschoolers need
> occupational therapy, physical therapy etc.? what would happen if all
> the money spent on the aides and therapists was instead spent to hire
> more Braille teachers so that kindergartners received daily Braille
> instruction? What would happen if children who were proficient in
> Braille could read ahead in their books and then not be so dependent
> on an aide to read the blackboard because they could follow along in
> Braille? Wouldn't it make more sense to give a child intensive
> one-on-one time with a TVI for a few years so they won't need very
> much extra support in the future? I may be naive, but I would think
> that would not only save the school districts some money in the end,
> but also bring out a generation of blind students who are
> self-sufficient and can become taxpaying adults much more easily.
> These are just my thoughts and observations about how we can help make
> change. I welcome any other thoughts or comments.
> Best,
> Arielle
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
> 0earthlink.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Wed May  9 20:31:04 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 16:31:04 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
References: <88680D55F430CF4593F993CADE7B0EDA3F807CA9@SN2PRD0102MB127.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <000b01cd2e22$a86d6600$1400ba43@BRIAN>

I was fortunate enough to learn braille at an early age.  While being 
mainstreamed full time my parents and dedicated TVI worked hard with me and 
took the time to teach and help me!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Salisbury, Justin Mark" <SALISBURYJ08 at students.ecu.edu>
To: <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy


I agree with the points that Arielle made, and I particularly think that we 
need to focus on the proper training of Braille teachers at this point in 
the game.  I don't think we currently have enough good Braille teachers in 
the United States to fulfill the needs of an optimal system.

I was fortunate enough to grow up in Connecticut, so I was urged to start 
learning Braille by my high school and state agency at the beginning of my 
junior year, only a few months after I became blind.  I wanted to resist it 
at first because no kid likes the idea of more classes that aren't dominated 
by the opposite sex or physical activity, but I soon realized that my school 
and state agency were right; Braille is important!

I just finished 4 years of college in North Carolina, where I am also 
finishing my second term as President of the NC Association of Blind 
Students.  I have learned a lot about both states' systems, and I observe a 
vast difference in the prioritization of Braille.  There are often trained 
Braille teachers in the wealthy and densely-populated school districts in 
NC, but students with residual vision are encouraged to depend on what they 
have left.  I wouldn't know Braille today if I had grown up in North 
Carolina.  In my understanding, students who are not from equipped school 
districts who wish to receive Braille instruction are often forced to attend 
the residential school for the blind in Raleigh.  Veteran teachers at the 
residential school for the blind have told me that it has become the place 
for students with multiple disabilities or from impoverished backgrounds 
(while anyone who can be mainstreamed is), and they have seen a decrease in 
the morale and expectations as this shift has occurred.

I bring up the residential school topic because, if we were able to make the 
shift tomorrow to a most efficient system, I believe we would need all of 
the students and Braille teachers to be located in centralized hubs.  I 
believe attending a residential school should be a choice, but it seems to 
currently be a requirement for many students if they want a shot at learning 
Braille.

We need more Braille teachers who are properly trained.

The Next Step:
To inspire people to enter the field, we need widespread budgetary 
allocations for the positions of Braille teachers.  North Carolina Central 
University consistently struggles to fill its TVI program because people 
aren't applying.

We should all write a book on this topic.

Justin

Justin M. Salisbury
Undergraduate Student
The Honors College
East Carolina University
salisburyj08 at students.ecu.edu

“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change 
the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed May  9 21:07:46 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 17:07:46 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
In-Reply-To: <88680D55F430CF4593F993CADE7B0EDA3F807CA9@SN2PRD0102MB127.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <88680D55F430CF4593F993CADE7B0EDA3F807CA9@SN2PRD0102MB127.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <000e01cd2e27$c97f2e50$5c7d8af0$@gmail.com>

I could see a Braille Monitor article being written on this subject, maybe
by you, Justin, as you present some workable and logical solutions to the
problem. Thoughts?

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Salisbury, Justin Mark
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 3:35 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

I agree with the points that Arielle made, and I particularly think that we
need to focus on the proper training of Braille teachers at this point in
the game.  I don't think we currently have enough good Braille teachers in
the United States to fulfill the needs of an optimal system.  

I was fortunate enough to grow up in Connecticut, so I was urged to start
learning Braille by my high school and state agency at the beginning of my
junior year, only a few months after I became blind.  I wanted to resist it
at first because no kid likes the idea of more classes that aren't dominated
by the opposite sex or physical activity, but I soon realized that my school
and state agency were right; Braille is important!

I just finished 4 years of college in North Carolina, where I am also
finishing my second term as President of the NC Association of Blind
Students.  I have learned a lot about both states' systems, and I observe a
vast difference in the prioritization of Braille.  There are often trained
Braille teachers in the wealthy and densely-populated school districts in
NC, but students with residual vision are encouraged to depend on what they
have left.  I wouldn't know Braille today if I had grown up in North
Carolina.  In my understanding, students who are not from equipped school
districts who wish to receive Braille instruction are often forced to attend
the residential school for the blind in Raleigh.  Veteran teachers at the
residential school for the blind have told me that it has become the place
for students with multiple disabilities or from impoverished backgrounds
(while anyone who can be mainstreamed is), and they have seen a decrease in
the morale and expectations as this shift has occurred.

I bring up the residential school topic because, if we were able to make the
shift tomorrow to a most efficient system, I believe we would need all of
the students and Braille teachers to be located in centralized hubs.  I
believe attending a residential school should be a choice, but it seems to
currently be a requirement for many students if they want a shot at learning
Braille. 

We need more Braille teachers who are properly trained.  

The Next Step:
To inspire people to enter the field, we need widespread budgetary
allocations for the positions of Braille teachers.  North Carolina Central
University consistently struggles to fill its TVI program because people
aren't applying.

We should all write a book on this topic.

Justin

Justin M. Salisbury
Undergraduate Student
The Honors College
East Carolina University
salisburyj08 at students.ecu.edu

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."    -MARGARET MEAD


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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om



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed May  9 21:11:18 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 17:11:18 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
In-Reply-To: <4faacbe0.1323640a.5771.ffff9910@mx.google.com>
References: <4faacbe0.1323640a.5771.ffff9910@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <E1E2256240E549139E23CF784273A85D@OwnerPC>

Hi,
We need more TVIS who believe in teaching braille. That is for sure, 
currently there is  a shortage of them.
As to aids, they can be a good and bad thing.  It depends on the aid's role. 
I do not think they should be there for all classes; I know I did not have 
that for all classes and did fine.  I can see an aid doing things like 
reading notes from the board, showing you models, filling in visual info; 
elementary school seemed more visual where as middle and high school were 
more lecture based.
I can see an aid in elementary school being of some help if not 
overdominating.
They sure could assist in math and science classes!
But unless you have other disabilities, IMO an aid should be depended on 
less and less. As for going to classes, learn your way around the school. 
Have the aid follow for a little while, but soon you should know your way 
and be able to do it.
When walking in lines in elementary school, I had a sighted guide who was a 
classmate, not an aid. Why not use a cane? Becausee the cane would have 
tripped people as we walked in a tight single file line.
So a sighted guide is an option rather than an aid for mobility.
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Sophie Trist
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 3:55 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Arielle,

With all due respect, I disagree. I am totally blind and started
my Braille instruction when I was three. I have a one-on-one
aide. This person's job is to make sure I can navigate safely
between classes and around the school. She also makes sure I have
all the braille materials when and where I need them. I also
believe that it is not ncessarily a question of money. It's a
question of getting good TVI's. Those are pretty hard to find. To
me, hope lies in us. Lots of college-age blind people are working
to become TVI's and OandM teachers. If more blind people became
TVI's, more blind children could get the services they needed.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 9 May 2012 00:52:06 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Arielle,
All good points.  I went to a resourceful and rich county school
system
While IMO my O&M teachers did not have high expectations and
encouraged
overliance on vision and memorizing routes, my vision teachers or
TVIS as
they are now called, were demanding.  Some more than others.  My
first one
is actually nationally known and wrote books on teaching braille
published
by AFB.
She taught me print and realized its limitations such as fatigue
and
slowness. She then taught me braille. However since I learned it
in second
grade, I had to catch up with my peers and this took a few years.
I was
expected to read during the summer. she sent braille material
home and the
print copy too so my parents could read with me.  I was drilled
on the
letters and later on what each letter represented as a word. I
had spelling
tests in braille. Also, a good thing they required me to do was
this.  Some
blind people struggle with spelling and literacy because of
seeing only
braille contractions. I was required to write the contraction if
I knew it
and spell the word out in all its letters, in other words grade 1
braille.
I did this for the class spelling tests, not the ones I had for
learning
braille.

This way I learned the spelling with my classmates, but also the
TVI saw
what braille contractions I knew and remembered.
I took most exams in braille when my skills were ready for it,
maybe in
fourth or fifth grade. I had mostly multiple choice ones; so I
just circled
or wrote down my  answer. Same tests as everyone else at the same
time; if I
needed it, I had extra time for them.
In upper grades, some textbooks they gave me both formats, so I
had a
choice. I had the braille text and the text from rfb.  I often
used a combo
of the two. I might listen to the chapter on tape, but skim for
the
highlights in braille.
However, the caseload of my TVIs was big and yes they could not
spend as
much time as they wanted to.  However, they did encourage
practice at home
and in class.  So some of it was up to me. If I did not want to
learn and
practice, I would not have improved.  It shouldn't be up to a
student to
take that responsibility, but we do given the situation.  Those
students who
did not read regularly in braille did not become as proficient.
Sighted students have to do some on their own too, but the
difference is
that a blind student can often get by with audio and a sighted
kid cannot.

For the braille crisis to stop, IMO we need a team approach; the
TVI, parent
and student have to be willing to make the commitment.

And, maybe not all kids need OT; that is why you have an
individualized
plan; I know I benefited from it and PT though. Instead of that,
hmm, maybe
a reading specialist. I suggest this because a reading specialist
can help
with learning deficits and weaknesses. My mom thought I had a
learning
disability and sometimes I think so too. For me my deficit was
fluency. a
reading specialist could help in this effort; help the child
decode faster
and therefore comprehend the words and with rapid decoding and
comprehension
comes fluency.  A reading specialist could also fill in the gaps
IMO when
the TVI isn't there.  This assumes the child needs help in
reading though.
But I suspect most blind kids do. Its my experience the regular
ed classroom
activities do not translate well to good emmergent braille
literacy. If you
all are not familiar  with education terms, some of this may not
make sense;
fluency is reading at a steady pace and decode means translating
the letters
to sounds in your head and forming words.

For instance, in first and second grade, we read as a class; the
teacher
pointed to words on the board or her book and everyone read
together.
Another activity is the teacher wrote on a board or transparency.
Now a
days probably a smart board. Anyway, then she has the class edit
it
together.  Still another activity involves matching pictures to
words so you
learn what they mean.  My point is that these rely on seeing the
teacher's
cues or pictures or something.

A blind student needs equivalent activities to develop literacy
skills.
Maybe a reading specialist in collaboration with  a TVI could
fill this
need. Just a thought though which will likely not happen.


-----Original Message-----
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 12:09 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Hi all,
It is obvious to all of us that we need to take action to ensure
that
the current and future generations of blind children will get the
Braille instruction they are entitled to and be held to the same
reading and writing standards as the sighted. However, I fear the
solution is much more complicated than just passing a national
Braille
bill. While I am not terribly familiar with Braille legislation,
I
have definitely seen cases where even in states with laws on
their
books mandating Braille instruction, kids are falling through the
cracks and not getting it. I know Arizona has adopted a Braille
bill
mandating that Braille is the "presumed reading medium" for all
blind
children unless the entire IEP team (including the child's
parents)
determines that the child can read and write optimally with
print. But
even in Arizona and other states with similar laws, some kids are
not
getting Braille. There are many ways teachers or school districts
can
get around the legal mandates. For example they can simply delay
holding an IEP meeting for a child or delay giving tests to
determine
whether or not the child is a functional print reader. They can
agree
to provide Braille but then only give a child 30 minutes per week
of
instruction because that's all the time the TVI has to work with
each
student. I've even heard of one case where a TVI insisted a
particular
child wasn't really legally blind even though this was clearly
spelled
out by the child's eye specialists. Passing a national Braille
bill is
an important step toward making change, but it won't be a viable
solution by itself unless everyone involved actually wants to
obey the
laws rather than finding loopholes around them, and when schools
have
the resources to provide the amount and quality of Braille
instruction
they are required to provide.
There are several serious problems with the system for educating
blind
children that need to be addressed in different ways. The
educational
system has long been dominated by professionals who are trained
to
view blindness as a deficit. Because of this overarching
philosophy,
they are not naturally inclined to aim toward giving blind and
sighted
students the same standard of education. I think there has always
been
too much of a focus in the blindness field about what blind
people
cannot do or what we do differently, rather than what we can do
and
what we share in common with sighted students. There is a
tendency to
be "reactive" and respond to deficits after they occur rather
than
being "proactive" and preventing kids from getting behind in the
first
place.
There are also lots of very negative attitudes about Braille
floating
around in the minds of some blindness professionals. Braille is
slow;
Braille is hard to learn; Braille sets a blind child apart from
others; Braille is only for totally blind people, who are
maximally
handicapped by their condition; Braille is bulky and hard to
produce;
Braille is expensive; Braille is antiquated and obsolete; etc.
etc.
With these kinds of attitudes, teachers aren't motivated to teach
Braille, and are more inclined to delay or avoid teaching Braille
whenever possible.
I have wondered whether much of the negativity toward Braille
comes
from sighted teachers' own difficulty in learning Braille
themselves
during training. For a sighted adult learning Braille is indeed
difficult at first, and building fluency takes time and
dedication.
Working from their own experiences, sighted teachers who
struggled to
learn Braille may believe that Braille is equally grueling and
overwhelming for their young students--but of course, it's not
because
learning to read at five is much different than learning to read
at
twenty-five. Even if this error of judgment is only unconscious,
it
can still affect their attitudes toward Braille and their
motivation
to teach it. This issue might be worse when teachers only spend a
few
months learning Braille and so they don't experience the
successful
improvement that comes from using Braille for years.
So, I think that legislation is only part of the solution. We
also
need to examine the psychology of the people involved in the
system
and figure out how to get the key players more excited about
Braille.
We want them to truly believe that blind children can achieve
full
competitive literacy with Braille instead of forcing them to
provide
literacy instruction that they don't really believe in. I think
what
the NFB is doing with the TeachBlindStudents and Teacher of
Tomorrow
programs is right on. We also just need to get more Braille
teachers
into the field who have had good experiences with Braille
themselves
and who truly believe in blind people. And, of course, the
educational
system for blind kids is just not well-funded and there aren't
enough
TVI's to go around. So even the good teachers are being spread
thin
with huge caseloads and simply don't have the time to provide
daily
instruction to every one of their students. We need to figure out
how
to reorganize the system so that the teachers' time is spent as
efficiently as possible without skimping on important lessons.
For
example, it seems like some of the special services given to
blind
kids are not always necessary and not always as important as
Braille.
I may be opening a whole other can of worms here, but it seems
like
almost every blind student these days (at least in elementary
school)
has a one-on-one aide who acts as the student's "eyes". Do all of
us
really need that kind of help? Do all blind preschoolers need
occupational therapy, physical therapy etc.? what would happen if
all
the money spent on the aides and therapists was instead spent to
hire
more Braille teachers so that kindergartners received daily
Braille
instruction? What would happen if children who were proficient in
Braille could read ahead in their books and then not be so
dependent
on an aide to read the blackboard because they could follow along
in
Braille? Wouldn't it make more sense to give a child intensive
one-on-one time with a TVI for a few years so they won't need
very
much extra support in the future? I may be naive, but I would
think
that would not only save the school districts some money in the
end,
but also bring out a generation of blind students who are
self-sufficient and can become taxpaying adults much more easily.
These are just my thoughts and observations about how we can help
make
change. I welcome any other thoughts or comments.
Best,
Arielle

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
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0earthlink.net


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for nabs-l:
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Wed May  9 21:16:06 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 17:16:06 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
In-Reply-To: <E1E2256240E549139E23CF784273A85D@OwnerPC>
References: <4faacbe0.1323640a.5771.ffff9910@mx.google.com>
	<E1E2256240E549139E23CF784273A85D@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <001601cd2e28$f3385fe0$d9a91fa0$@gmail.com>

I agree completely!!

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 5:11 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Hi,
We need more TVIS who believe in teaching braille. That is for sure,
currently there is  a shortage of them.
As to aids, they can be a good and bad thing.  It depends on the aid's role.

I do not think they should be there for all classes; I know I did not have
that for all classes and did fine.  I can see an aid doing things like
reading notes from the board, showing you models, filling in visual info;
elementary school seemed more visual where as middle and high school were
more lecture based.
I can see an aid in elementary school being of some help if not
overdominating.
They sure could assist in math and science classes!
But unless you have other disabilities, IMO an aid should be depended on
less and less. As for going to classes, learn your way around the school. 
Have the aid follow for a little while, but soon you should know your way
and be able to do it.
When walking in lines in elementary school, I had a sighted guide who was a
classmate, not an aid. Why not use a cane? Becausee the cane would have
tripped people as we walked in a tight single file line.
So a sighted guide is an option rather than an aid for mobility.
Ashley

-----Original Message-----
From: Sophie Trist
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 3:55 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Arielle,

With all due respect, I disagree. I am totally blind and started my Braille
instruction when I was three. I have a one-on-one aide. This person's job is
to make sure I can navigate safely between classes and around the school.
She also makes sure I have all the braille materials when and where I need
them. I also believe that it is not ncessarily a question of money. It's a
question of getting good TVI's. Those are pretty hard to find. To me, hope
lies in us. Lots of college-age blind people are working to become TVI's and
OandM teachers. If more blind people became TVI's, more blind children could
get the services they needed.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 9 May 2012 00:52:06 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Arielle,
All good points.  I went to a resourceful and rich county school system
While IMO my O&M teachers did not have high expectations and encouraged
overliance on vision and memorizing routes, my vision teachers or TVIS as
they are now called, were demanding.  Some more than others.  My first one
is actually nationally known and wrote books on teaching braille published
by AFB.
She taught me print and realized its limitations such as fatigue and
slowness. She then taught me braille. However since I learned it in second
grade, I had to catch up with my peers and this took a few years.
I was
expected to read during the summer. she sent braille material home and the
print copy too so my parents could read with me.  I was drilled on the
letters and later on what each letter represented as a word. I had spelling
tests in braille. Also, a good thing they required me to do was this.  Some
blind people struggle with spelling and literacy because of seeing only
braille contractions. I was required to write the contraction if I knew it
and spell the word out in all its letters, in other words grade 1 braille.
I did this for the class spelling tests, not the ones I had for learning
braille.

This way I learned the spelling with my classmates, but also the TVI saw
what braille contractions I knew and remembered.
I took most exams in braille when my skills were ready for it, maybe in
fourth or fifth grade. I had mostly multiple choice ones; so I just circled
or wrote down my  answer. Same tests as everyone else at the same time; if I
needed it, I had extra time for them.
In upper grades, some textbooks they gave me both formats, so I had a
choice. I had the braille text and the text from rfb.  I often used a combo
of the two. I might listen to the chapter on tape, but skim for the
highlights in braille.
However, the caseload of my TVIs was big and yes they could not spend as
much time as they wanted to.  However, they did encourage practice at home
and in class.  So some of it was up to me. If I did not want to learn and
practice, I would not have improved.  It shouldn't be up to a student to
take that responsibility, but we do given the situation.  Those students who
did not read regularly in braille did not become as proficient.
Sighted students have to do some on their own too, but the difference is
that a blind student can often get by with audio and a sighted kid cannot.

For the braille crisis to stop, IMO we need a team approach; the TVI, parent
and student have to be willing to make the commitment.

And, maybe not all kids need OT; that is why you have an individualized
plan; I know I benefited from it and PT though. Instead of that, hmm, maybe
a reading specialist. I suggest this because a reading specialist can help
with learning deficits and weaknesses. My mom thought I had a learning
disability and sometimes I think so too. For me my deficit was fluency. a
reading specialist could help in this effort; help the child decode faster
and therefore comprehend the words and with rapid decoding and comprehension
comes fluency.  A reading specialist could also fill in the gaps IMO when
the TVI isn't there.  This assumes the child needs help in reading though.
But I suspect most blind kids do. Its my experience the regular ed classroom
activities do not translate well to good emmergent braille literacy. If you
all are not familiar  with education terms, some of this may not make sense;
fluency is reading at a steady pace and decode means translating the letters
to sounds in your head and forming words.

For instance, in first and second grade, we read as a class; the teacher
pointed to words on the board or her book and everyone read together.
Another activity is the teacher wrote on a board or transparency.
Now a
days probably a smart board. Anyway, then she has the class edit it
together.  Still another activity involves matching pictures to words so you
learn what they mean.  My point is that these rely on seeing the teacher's
cues or pictures or something.

A blind student needs equivalent activities to develop literacy skills.
Maybe a reading specialist in collaboration with  a TVI could fill this
need. Just a thought though which will likely not happen.


-----Original Message-----
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 12:09 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Hi all,
It is obvious to all of us that we need to take action to ensure that the
current and future generations of blind children will get the Braille
instruction they are entitled to and be held to the same reading and writing
standards as the sighted. However, I fear the solution is much more
complicated than just passing a national Braille bill. While I am not
terribly familiar with Braille legislation, I have definitely seen cases
where even in states with laws on their books mandating Braille instruction,
kids are falling through the cracks and not getting it. I know Arizona has
adopted a Braille bill mandating that Braille is the "presumed reading
medium" for all blind children unless the entire IEP team (including the
child's
parents)
determines that the child can read and write optimally with print. But even
in Arizona and other states with similar laws, some kids are not getting
Braille. There are many ways teachers or school districts can get around the
legal mandates. For example they can simply delay holding an IEP meeting for
a child or delay giving tests to determine whether or not the child is a
functional print reader. They can agree to provide Braille but then only
give a child 30 minutes per week of instruction because that's all the time
the TVI has to work with each student. I've even heard of one case where a
TVI insisted a particular child wasn't really legally blind even though this
was clearly spelled out by the child's eye specialists. Passing a national
Braille bill is an important step toward making change, but it won't be a
viable solution by itself unless everyone involved actually wants to obey
the laws rather than finding loopholes around them, and when schools have
the resources to provide the amount and quality of Braille instruction they
are required to provide.
There are several serious problems with the system for educating blind
children that need to be addressed in different ways. The educational system
has long been dominated by professionals who are trained to view blindness
as a deficit. Because of this overarching philosophy, they are not naturally
inclined to aim toward giving blind and sighted students the same standard
of education. I think there has always been too much of a focus in the
blindness field about what blind people cannot do or what we do differently,
rather than what we can do and what we share in common with sighted
students. There is a tendency to be "reactive" and respond to deficits after
they occur rather than being "proactive" and preventing kids from getting
behind in the first place.
There are also lots of very negative attitudes about Braille floating around
in the minds of some blindness professionals. Braille is slow; Braille is
hard to learn; Braille sets a blind child apart from others; Braille is only
for totally blind people, who are maximally handicapped by their condition;
Braille is bulky and hard to produce; Braille is expensive; Braille is
antiquated and obsolete; etc.
etc.
With these kinds of attitudes, teachers aren't motivated to teach Braille,
and are more inclined to delay or avoid teaching Braille whenever possible.
I have wondered whether much of the negativity toward Braille comes from
sighted teachers' own difficulty in learning Braille themselves during
training. For a sighted adult learning Braille is indeed difficult at first,
and building fluency takes time and dedication.
Working from their own experiences, sighted teachers who struggled to learn
Braille may believe that Braille is equally grueling and overwhelming for
their young students--but of course, it's not because learning to read at
five is much different than learning to read at twenty-five. Even if this
error of judgment is only unconscious, it can still affect their attitudes
toward Braille and their motivation to teach it. This issue might be worse
when teachers only spend a few months learning Braille and so they don't
experience the successful improvement that comes from using Braille for
years.
So, I think that legislation is only part of the solution. We also need to
examine the psychology of the people involved in the system and figure out
how to get the key players more excited about Braille.
We want them to truly believe that blind children can achieve full
competitive literacy with Braille instead of forcing them to provide
literacy instruction that they don't really believe in. I think what the NFB
is doing with the TeachBlindStudents and Teacher of Tomorrow programs is
right on. We also just need to get more Braille teachers into the field who
have had good experiences with Braille themselves and who truly believe in
blind people. And, of course, the educational system for blind kids is just
not well-funded and there aren't enough TVI's to go around. So even the good
teachers are being spread thin with huge caseloads and simply don't have the
time to provide daily instruction to every one of their students. We need to
figure out how to reorganize the system so that the teachers' time is spent
as efficiently as possible without skimping on important lessons.
For
example, it seems like some of the special services given to blind kids are
not always necessary and not always as important as Braille.
I may be opening a whole other can of worms here, but it seems like almost
every blind student these days (at least in elementary
school)
has a one-on-one aide who acts as the student's "eyes". Do all of us really
need that kind of help? Do all blind preschoolers need occupational therapy,
physical therapy etc.? what would happen if all the money spent on the aides
and therapists was instead spent to hire more Braille teachers so that
kindergartners received daily Braille instruction? What would happen if
children who were proficient in Braille could read ahead in their books and
then not be so dependent on an aide to read the blackboard because they
could follow along in Braille? Wouldn't it make more sense to give a child
intensive one-on-one time with a TVI for a few years so they won't need very
much extra support in the future? I may be naive, but I would think that
would not only save the school districts some money in the end, but also
bring out a generation of blind students who are self-sufficient and can
become taxpaying adults much more easily.
These are just my thoughts and observations about how we can help make
change. I welcome any other thoughts or comments.
Best,
Arielle

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om



From readtobuild at gmail.com  Wed May  9 21:58:30 2012
From: readtobuild at gmail.com (Lanie)
Date: Wed, 09 May 2012 16:58:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] College
Message-ID: <4faae8c1.4430b60a.25bc.ffffc922@mx.google.com>

I wouldn't know how to use a calculus book in audio.  It's called 
Calculus Concepts and Contexts, 4th Edition by James Stuart.  I 
don't really need it anymore because since my back
was giving me so much trouble I had to drop the class.
 ----- Original Message -----
From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 07 May 2012 15:56:33 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College

What book are you looking for? And can it be on audio? Because if
so, you could download it from iTunes or if you use the Blio app.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Lanie <readtobuild at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 07 May 2012 15:38:06 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College

Hi, all.  Sorry about not responding sooner.  We lost Internet
access so I'm at McDonald's replying to these emails.  I did look
for my book online on RFBD and Bookshare, but unfortunately
neither one had it.  Thanks for the suggestion though.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 23 Apr 2012 17:24:18 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College

Lanie,

If you're a member of Learning Ally (formerly RFBD,) you may be
able to get the book from there; I know RFBD does some math
books.  You might be able to get it from Bookshare, but I'm not
sure how you would handle the graphics.

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Lanie <readtobuild at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 11:40:18 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College

I'm not sure.  I may be there, but I don't really know yet.  I'll
let you know if I will be.  Thanks for the offer.  I've tried to
work the math on the BrailleNote, but even though you can do it,
it's extremely slow and not good for taking notes.  As for
getting my book electronically, I would if I could find it and if
it's readable.  Most math isn't readable with a screen reader.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 20 Apr 2012 09:24:15 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College

I'm just concerned, because she mentioned her back being affected
by
this constant use of the rolling backpack, with that heavy
Brailler in
it.
That Brailler is extremely heavy, plus with a backpack, with huge
Braille books, it will hurt your back, because I had similar
problems!
For my Math classes, to alleviate the problem, in high school, I
was
fortunate, to have a Brailler, in every classroom, (thanks to my
VR
Counselors,) (this was when they were cooperating.)
I have an old Perkins, that I'm willing to get rid of, by the
Fall, of
this year, because I won't need it again.
Lanie, will you be at convention, this year?
Also, I'm still hoping, that David can market that new
lightweight
Brailler, that he showed me, 2 years ago.
Thanks, Joshua

On 4/20/12, Nicole B.  Torcolini at Home
<ntorcolini at wavecable.com> wrote:
 Joshua,

     You really could rephrase that as, "If possible, you could
leave the
 Brailler." As has been stated, this does not seem to be an
option.  What
 works for you does not work for everyone.  I know from
experience that it is
 necessary to have a Brailler for certain types of math.

 Nicole

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 4:29 AM
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] College


 Just use the Braille note.
 Leave the Brailler alone.
 Blessings, Joshua

 On 4/20/12, Lanie <readtobuild at gmail.com> wrote:
 Hi all.  I was wondering if anyone could give me advice on this.
 I'm taking Calculus 2 in college and have to carry around
several
 Braille volumes so that I can keep up, a Brailler, my
 BrailleNote, Braille paper, and an APH Graphing Aid for
 Mathematics, all in a huge rolling bag.  I have reason to think
 that all this is messing up my back.  I don't know how to
lighten
 the load, but I can't keep carrxing it.  I've already talked
with
 the Office for Students with Disabilities coordinator, but they
 don't have any Braillers.  How do any others on this list who
are
 taking classes with huge Braille books and other things like
this
 do it? Do you use a large bag like I do? Any advice here would
be
 great! Thanks.

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From missheather at comcast.net  Thu May 10 00:22:13 2012
From: missheather at comcast.net (Heather Field)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 19:22:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
In-Reply-To: <4faacbe0.1323640a.5771.ffff9910@mx.google.com>
References: <4faacbe0.1323640a.5771.ffff9910@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <455B3E9964A04B89A5131F5EBDC06E77@HeatherAcer>

Hello Sophie,
I'd like to make a few comments on your email.

Unfortunately, regarding who is taught braille and who is not, the truth is 
depressing. it is very, very much a case of money. While the congress voted 
to provide up to forty percent of the funding to cover the implementation of 
the inclusion of special needs children in public schools, it has never 
provided states with more than seventeen percent of the funds. Therefore, it 
is extremely costly for a school district to provide braille for a student. 
In many cases there is only one student who is obviously needing braille. It 
is much easier for a school district to agree with everyone who doesn't want 
to use the horrifying word "blind" and, instead, to give the functionally 
blind child a cctv and large print and make them try to cope as a sighted 
child.

The cost of one teacher is over $35,000, not to mention the braille 
embossing equipment. So, while it isn't supposed to be about money Sophie, I 
regret to inform you that money looms large in the decision making process.

As for your teacher aide being responsible for getting you around your 
school safely, unless you have some medical conditions which require you to 
have physical assistance, I simply cannot understand this statement on your 
part.

I also am blind and I was walking myself independently around my high school 
of seventeen hundred students from the age of twelve. I would rather have 
died than to have had some teacher aide interfering with my forming normal 
social interactions. It was hard enough being the odd kid who couldn't see. 
I can't imagine how it would have been to have a teacher aide walking with 
me. I don't believe that a hight school student needs a teacher aide to be 
with them in any situation. By middle and high school students need to be 
learning self-advocacy skills and using peers and/or the teacher for needed 
assistance. A teacher aide should be preparing resources, assisting with 
research in the library or online etc.
Every time your peers see you with your teacher aide you send them the 
message that you are not as capable as them, that you are different and need 
help to do what everyone else can already do.

If there are no medical conditions which make an aide necessary Sophie, I 
would encourage you to wean yourself off walking around the school with an 
aide. You will need to discourage the aide as well as they probably can't 
imagine you not needing their help to get around the school. You'll be 
amazed how able you really are. Incidentally, if the school is saying you 
need an aide for safety and liability reasons, this is patently false.

Regards,
Heather



-----Original Message----- 
From: Sophie Trist
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 2:55 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Arielle,

With all due respect, I disagree. I am totally blind and started
my Braille instruction when I was three. I have a one-on-one
aide. This person's job is to make sure I can navigate safely
between classes and around the school. She also makes sure I have
all the braille materials when and where I need them. I also
believe that it is not ncessarily a question of money. It's a
question of getting good TVI's. Those are pretty hard to find. To
me, hope lies in us. Lots of college-age blind people are working
to become TVI's and OandM teachers. If more blind people became
TVI's, more blind children could get the services they needed.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 9 May 2012 00:52:06 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Arielle,
All good points.  I went to a resourceful and rich county school
system
While IMO my O&M teachers did not have high expectations and
encouraged
overliance on vision and memorizing routes, my vision teachers or
TVIS as
they are now called, were demanding.  Some more than others.  My
first one
is actually nationally known and wrote books on teaching braille
published
by AFB.
She taught me print and realized its limitations such as fatigue
and
slowness. She then taught me braille. However since I learned it
in second
grade, I had to catch up with my peers and this took a few years.
I was
expected to read during the summer. she sent braille material
home and the
print copy too so my parents could read with me.  I was drilled
on the
letters and later on what each letter represented as a word. I
had spelling
tests in braille. Also, a good thing they required me to do was
this.  Some
blind people struggle with spelling and literacy because of
seeing only
braille contractions. I was required to write the contraction if
I knew it
and spell the word out in all its letters, in other words grade 1
braille.
I did this for the class spelling tests, not the ones I had for
learning
braille.

This way I learned the spelling with my classmates, but also the
TVI saw
what braille contractions I knew and remembered.
I took most exams in braille when my skills were ready for it,
maybe in
fourth or fifth grade. I had mostly multiple choice ones; so I
just circled
or wrote down my  answer. Same tests as everyone else at the same
time; if I
needed it, I had extra time for them.
In upper grades, some textbooks they gave me both formats, so I
had a
choice. I had the braille text and the text from rfb.  I often
used a combo
of the two. I might listen to the chapter on tape, but skim for
the
highlights in braille.
However, the caseload of my TVIs was big and yes they could not
spend as
much time as they wanted to.  However, they did encourage
practice at home
and in class.  So some of it was up to me. If I did not want to
learn and
practice, I would not have improved.  It shouldn't be up to a
student to
take that responsibility, but we do given the situation.  Those
students who
did not read regularly in braille did not become as proficient.
Sighted students have to do some on their own too, but the
difference is
that a blind student can often get by with audio and a sighted
kid cannot.

For the braille crisis to stop, IMO we need a team approach; the
TVI, parent
and student have to be willing to make the commitment.

And, maybe not all kids need OT; that is why you have an
individualized
plan; I know I benefited from it and PT though. Instead of that,
hmm, maybe
a reading specialist. I suggest this because a reading specialist
can help
with learning deficits and weaknesses. My mom thought I had a
learning
disability and sometimes I think so too. For me my deficit was
fluency. a
reading specialist could help in this effort; help the child
decode faster
and therefore comprehend the words and with rapid decoding and
comprehension
comes fluency.  A reading specialist could also fill in the gaps
IMO when
the TVI isn't there.  This assumes the child needs help in
reading though.
But I suspect most blind kids do. Its my experience the regular
ed classroom
activities do not translate well to good emmergent braille
literacy. If you
all are not familiar  with education terms, some of this may not
make sense;
fluency is reading at a steady pace and decode means translating
the letters
to sounds in your head and forming words.

For instance, in first and second grade, we read as a class; the
teacher
pointed to words on the board or her book and everyone read
together.
Another activity is the teacher wrote on a board or transparency.
Now a
days probably a smart board. Anyway, then she has the class edit
it
together.  Still another activity involves matching pictures to
words so you
learn what they mean.  My point is that these rely on seeing the
teacher's
cues or pictures or something.

A blind student needs equivalent activities to develop literacy
skills.
Maybe a reading specialist in collaboration with  a TVI could
fill this
need. Just a thought though which will likely not happen.


-----Original Message-----
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 12:09 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Hi all,
It is obvious to all of us that we need to take action to ensure
that
the current and future generations of blind children will get the
Braille instruction they are entitled to and be held to the same
reading and writing standards as the sighted. However, I fear the
solution is much more complicated than just passing a national
Braille
bill. While I am not terribly familiar with Braille legislation,
I
have definitely seen cases where even in states with laws on
their
books mandating Braille instruction, kids are falling through the
cracks and not getting it. I know Arizona has adopted a Braille
bill
mandating that Braille is the "presumed reading medium" for all
blind
children unless the entire IEP team (including the child's
parents)
determines that the child can read and write optimally with
print. But
even in Arizona and other states with similar laws, some kids are
not
getting Braille. There are many ways teachers or school districts
can
get around the legal mandates. For example they can simply delay
holding an IEP meeting for a child or delay giving tests to
determine
whether or not the child is a functional print reader. They can
agree
to provide Braille but then only give a child 30 minutes per week
of
instruction because that's all the time the TVI has to work with
each
student. I've even heard of one case where a TVI insisted a
particular
child wasn't really legally blind even though this was clearly
spelled
out by the child's eye specialists. Passing a national Braille
bill is
an important step toward making change, but it won't be a viable
solution by itself unless everyone involved actually wants to
obey the
laws rather than finding loopholes around them, and when schools
have
the resources to provide the amount and quality of Braille
instruction
they are required to provide.
There are several serious problems with the system for educating
blind
children that need to be addressed in different ways. The
educational
system has long been dominated by professionals who are trained
to
view blindness as a deficit. Because of this overarching
philosophy,
they are not naturally inclined to aim toward giving blind and
sighted
students the same standard of education. I think there has always
been
too much of a focus in the blindness field about what blind
people
cannot do or what we do differently, rather than what we can do
and
what we share in common with sighted students. There is a
tendency to
be "reactive" and respond to deficits after they occur rather
than
being "proactive" and preventing kids from getting behind in the
first
place.
There are also lots of very negative attitudes about Braille
floating
around in the minds of some blindness professionals. Braille is
slow;
Braille is hard to learn; Braille sets a blind child apart from
others; Braille is only for totally blind people, who are
maximally
handicapped by their condition; Braille is bulky and hard to
produce;
Braille is expensive; Braille is antiquated and obsolete; etc.
etc.
With these kinds of attitudes, teachers aren't motivated to teach
Braille, and are more inclined to delay or avoid teaching Braille
whenever possible.
I have wondered whether much of the negativity toward Braille
comes
from sighted teachers' own difficulty in learning Braille
themselves
during training. For a sighted adult learning Braille is indeed
difficult at first, and building fluency takes time and
dedication.
Working from their own experiences, sighted teachers who
struggled to
learn Braille may believe that Braille is equally grueling and
overwhelming for their young students--but of course, it's not
because
learning to read at five is much different than learning to read
at
twenty-five. Even if this error of judgment is only unconscious,
it
can still affect their attitudes toward Braille and their
motivation
to teach it. This issue might be worse when teachers only spend a
few
months learning Braille and so they don't experience the
successful
improvement that comes from using Braille for years.
So, I think that legislation is only part of the solution. We
also
need to examine the psychology of the people involved in the
system
and figure out how to get the key players more excited about
Braille.
We want them to truly believe that blind children can achieve
full
competitive literacy with Braille instead of forcing them to
provide
literacy instruction that they don't really believe in. I think
what
the NFB is doing with the TeachBlindStudents and Teacher of
Tomorrow
programs is right on. We also just need to get more Braille
teachers
into the field who have had good experiences with Braille
themselves
and who truly believe in blind people. And, of course, the
educational
system for blind kids is just not well-funded and there aren't
enough
TVI's to go around. So even the good teachers are being spread
thin
with huge caseloads and simply don't have the time to provide
daily
instruction to every one of their students. We need to figure out
how
to reorganize the system so that the teachers' time is spent as
efficiently as possible without skimping on important lessons.
For
example, it seems like some of the special services given to
blind
kids are not always necessary and not always as important as
Braille.
I may be opening a whole other can of worms here, but it seems
like
almost every blind student these days (at least in elementary
school)
has a one-on-one aide who acts as the student's "eyes". Do all of
us
really need that kind of help? Do all blind preschoolers need
occupational therapy, physical therapy etc.? what would happen if
all
the money spent on the aides and therapists was instead spent to
hire
more Braille teachers so that kindergartners received daily
Braille
instruction? What would happen if children who were proficient in
Braille could read ahead in their books and then not be so
dependent
on an aide to read the blackboard because they could follow along
in
Braille? Wouldn't it make more sense to give a child intensive
one-on-one time with a TVI for a few years so they won't need
very
much extra support in the future? I may be naive, but I would
think
that would not only save the school districts some money in the
end,
but also bring out a generation of blind students who are
self-sufficient and can become taxpaying adults much more easily.
These are just my thoughts and observations about how we can help
make
change. I welcome any other thoughts or comments.
Best,
Arielle

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu May 10 00:34:35 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 20:34:35 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
In-Reply-To: <455B3E9964A04B89A5131F5EBDC06E77@HeatherAcer>
References: <4faacbe0.1323640a.5771.ffff9910@mx.google.com>
	<455B3E9964A04B89A5131F5EBDC06E77@HeatherAcer>
Message-ID: <2A7222CF02874CC0AA6031C049A4DB01@OwnerPC>

We don't know Sophie's age. If she is in middle school or beyond, I would 
agree an aid is unneccessary.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Heather Field
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:22 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Hello Sophie,
I'd like to make a few comments on your email.

Unfortunately, regarding who is taught braille and who is not, the truth is
depressing. it is very, very much a case of money. While the congress voted
to provide up to forty percent of the funding to cover the implementation of
the inclusion of special needs children in public schools, it has never
provided states with more than seventeen percent of the funds. Therefore, it
is extremely costly for a school district to provide braille for a student.
In many cases there is only one student who is obviously needing braille. It
is much easier for a school district to agree with everyone who doesn't want
to use the horrifying word "blind" and, instead, to give the functionally
blind child a cctv and large print and make them try to cope as a sighted
child.

The cost of one teacher is over $35,000, not to mention the braille
embossing equipment. So, while it isn't supposed to be about money Sophie, I
regret to inform you that money looms large in the decision making process.

As for your teacher aide being responsible for getting you around your
school safely, unless you have some medical conditions which require you to
have physical assistance, I simply cannot understand this statement on your
part.

I also am blind and I was walking myself independently around my high school
of seventeen hundred students from the age of twelve. I would rather have
died than to have had some teacher aide interfering with my forming normal
social interactions. It was hard enough being the odd kid who couldn't see.
I can't imagine how it would have been to have a teacher aide walking with
me. I don't believe that a hight school student needs a teacher aide to be
with them in any situation. By middle and high school students need to be
learning self-advocacy skills and using peers and/or the teacher for needed
assistance. A teacher aide should be preparing resources, assisting with
research in the library or online etc.
Every time your peers see you with your teacher aide you send them the
message that you are not as capable as them, that you are different and need
help to do what everyone else can already do.

If there are no medical conditions which make an aide necessary Sophie, I
would encourage you to wean yourself off walking around the school with an
aide. You will need to discourage the aide as well as they probably can't
imagine you not needing their help to get around the school. You'll be
amazed how able you really are. Incidentally, if the school is saying you
need an aide for safety and liability reasons, this is patently false.

Regards,
Heather



-----Original Message----- 
From: Sophie Trist
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 2:55 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Arielle,

With all due respect, I disagree. I am totally blind and started
my Braille instruction when I was three. I have a one-on-one
aide. This person's job is to make sure I can navigate safely
between classes and around the school. She also makes sure I have
all the braille materials when and where I need them. I also
believe that it is not ncessarily a question of money. It's a
question of getting good TVI's. Those are pretty hard to find. To
me, hope lies in us. Lots of college-age blind people are working
to become TVI's and OandM teachers. If more blind people became
TVI's, more blind children could get the services they needed.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 9 May 2012 00:52:06 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Arielle,
All good points.  I went to a resourceful and rich county school
system
While IMO my O&M teachers did not have high expectations and
encouraged
overliance on vision and memorizing routes, my vision teachers or
TVIS as
they are now called, were demanding.  Some more than others.  My
first one
is actually nationally known and wrote books on teaching braille
published
by AFB.
She taught me print and realized its limitations such as fatigue
and
slowness. She then taught me braille. However since I learned it
in second
grade, I had to catch up with my peers and this took a few years.
I was
expected to read during the summer. she sent braille material
home and the
print copy too so my parents could read with me.  I was drilled
on the
letters and later on what each letter represented as a word. I
had spelling
tests in braille. Also, a good thing they required me to do was
this.  Some
blind people struggle with spelling and literacy because of
seeing only
braille contractions. I was required to write the contraction if
I knew it
and spell the word out in all its letters, in other words grade 1
braille.
I did this for the class spelling tests, not the ones I had for
learning
braille.

This way I learned the spelling with my classmates, but also the
TVI saw
what braille contractions I knew and remembered.
I took most exams in braille when my skills were ready for it,
maybe in
fourth or fifth grade. I had mostly multiple choice ones; so I
just circled
or wrote down my  answer. Same tests as everyone else at the same
time; if I
needed it, I had extra time for them.
In upper grades, some textbooks they gave me both formats, so I
had a
choice. I had the braille text and the text from rfb.  I often
used a combo
of the two. I might listen to the chapter on tape, but skim for
the
highlights in braille.
However, the caseload of my TVIs was big and yes they could not
spend as
much time as they wanted to.  However, they did encourage
practice at home
and in class.  So some of it was up to me. If I did not want to
learn and
practice, I would not have improved.  It shouldn't be up to a
student to
take that responsibility, but we do given the situation.  Those
students who
did not read regularly in braille did not become as proficient.
Sighted students have to do some on their own too, but the
difference is
that a blind student can often get by with audio and a sighted
kid cannot.

For the braille crisis to stop, IMO we need a team approach; the
TVI, parent
and student have to be willing to make the commitment.

And, maybe not all kids need OT; that is why you have an
individualized
plan; I know I benefited from it and PT though. Instead of that,
hmm, maybe
a reading specialist. I suggest this because a reading specialist
can help
with learning deficits and weaknesses. My mom thought I had a
learning
disability and sometimes I think so too. For me my deficit was
fluency. a
reading specialist could help in this effort; help the child
decode faster
and therefore comprehend the words and with rapid decoding and
comprehension
comes fluency.  A reading specialist could also fill in the gaps
IMO when
the TVI isn't there.  This assumes the child needs help in
reading though.
But I suspect most blind kids do. Its my experience the regular
ed classroom
activities do not translate well to good emmergent braille
literacy. If you
all are not familiar  with education terms, some of this may not
make sense;
fluency is reading at a steady pace and decode means translating
the letters
to sounds in your head and forming words.

For instance, in first and second grade, we read as a class; the
teacher
pointed to words on the board or her book and everyone read
together.
Another activity is the teacher wrote on a board or transparency.
Now a
days probably a smart board. Anyway, then she has the class edit
it
together.  Still another activity involves matching pictures to
words so you
learn what they mean.  My point is that these rely on seeing the
teacher's
cues or pictures or something.

A blind student needs equivalent activities to develop literacy
skills.
Maybe a reading specialist in collaboration with  a TVI could
fill this
need. Just a thought though which will likely not happen.


-----Original Message-----
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 12:09 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Hi all,
It is obvious to all of us that we need to take action to ensure
that
the current and future generations of blind children will get the
Braille instruction they are entitled to and be held to the same
reading and writing standards as the sighted. However, I fear the
solution is much more complicated than just passing a national
Braille
bill. While I am not terribly familiar with Braille legislation,
I
have definitely seen cases where even in states with laws on
their
books mandating Braille instruction, kids are falling through the
cracks and not getting it. I know Arizona has adopted a Braille
bill
mandating that Braille is the "presumed reading medium" for all
blind
children unless the entire IEP team (including the child's
parents)
determines that the child can read and write optimally with
print. But
even in Arizona and other states with similar laws, some kids are
not
getting Braille. There are many ways teachers or school districts
can
get around the legal mandates. For example they can simply delay
holding an IEP meeting for a child or delay giving tests to
determine
whether or not the child is a functional print reader. They can
agree
to provide Braille but then only give a child 30 minutes per week
of
instruction because that's all the time the TVI has to work with
each
student. I've even heard of one case where a TVI insisted a
particular
child wasn't really legally blind even though this was clearly
spelled
out by the child's eye specialists. Passing a national Braille
bill is
an important step toward making change, but it won't be a viable
solution by itself unless everyone involved actually wants to
obey the
laws rather than finding loopholes around them, and when schools
have
the resources to provide the amount and quality of Braille
instruction
they are required to provide.
There are several serious problems with the system for educating
blind
children that need to be addressed in different ways. The
educational
system has long been dominated by professionals who are trained
to
view blindness as a deficit. Because of this overarching
philosophy,
they are not naturally inclined to aim toward giving blind and
sighted
students the same standard of education. I think there has always
been
too much of a focus in the blindness field about what blind
people
cannot do or what we do differently, rather than what we can do
and
what we share in common with sighted students. There is a
tendency to
be "reactive" and respond to deficits after they occur rather
than
being "proactive" and preventing kids from getting behind in the
first
place.
There are also lots of very negative attitudes about Braille
floating
around in the minds of some blindness professionals. Braille is
slow;
Braille is hard to learn; Braille sets a blind child apart from
others; Braille is only for totally blind people, who are
maximally
handicapped by their condition; Braille is bulky and hard to
produce;
Braille is expensive; Braille is antiquated and obsolete; etc.
etc.
With these kinds of attitudes, teachers aren't motivated to teach
Braille, and are more inclined to delay or avoid teaching Braille
whenever possible.
I have wondered whether much of the negativity toward Braille
comes
from sighted teachers' own difficulty in learning Braille
themselves
during training. For a sighted adult learning Braille is indeed
difficult at first, and building fluency takes time and
dedication.
Working from their own experiences, sighted teachers who
struggled to
learn Braille may believe that Braille is equally grueling and
overwhelming for their young students--but of course, it's not
because
learning to read at five is much different than learning to read
at
twenty-five. Even if this error of judgment is only unconscious,
it
can still affect their attitudes toward Braille and their
motivation
to teach it. This issue might be worse when teachers only spend a
few
months learning Braille and so they don't experience the
successful
improvement that comes from using Braille for years.
So, I think that legislation is only part of the solution. We
also
need to examine the psychology of the people involved in the
system
and figure out how to get the key players more excited about
Braille.
We want them to truly believe that blind children can achieve
full
competitive literacy with Braille instead of forcing them to
provide
literacy instruction that they don't really believe in. I think
what
the NFB is doing with the TeachBlindStudents and Teacher of
Tomorrow
programs is right on. We also just need to get more Braille
teachers
into the field who have had good experiences with Braille
themselves
and who truly believe in blind people. And, of course, the
educational
system for blind kids is just not well-funded and there aren't
enough
TVI's to go around. So even the good teachers are being spread
thin
with huge caseloads and simply don't have the time to provide
daily
instruction to every one of their students. We need to figure out
how
to reorganize the system so that the teachers' time is spent as
efficiently as possible without skimping on important lessons.
For
example, it seems like some of the special services given to
blind
kids are not always necessary and not always as important as
Braille.
I may be opening a whole other can of worms here, but it seems
like
almost every blind student these days (at least in elementary
school)
has a one-on-one aide who acts as the student's "eyes". Do all of
us
really need that kind of help? Do all blind preschoolers need
occupational therapy, physical therapy etc.? what would happen if
all
the money spent on the aides and therapists was instead spent to
hire
more Braille teachers so that kindergartners received daily
Braille
instruction? What would happen if children who were proficient in
Braille could read ahead in their books and then not be so
dependent
on an aide to read the blackboard because they could follow along
in
Braille? Wouldn't it make more sense to give a child intensive
one-on-one time with a TVI for a few years so they won't need
very
much extra support in the future? I may be naive, but I would
think
that would not only save the school districts some money in the
end,
but also bring out a generation of blind students who are
self-sufficient and can become taxpaying adults much more easily.
These are just my thoughts and observations about how we can help
make
change. I welcome any other thoughts or comments.
Best,
Arielle

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From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Thu May 10 00:36:33 2012
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 17:36:33 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
In-Reply-To: <2A7222CF02874CC0AA6031C049A4DB01@OwnerPC>
References: <4faacbe0.1323640a.5771.ffff9910@mx.google.com><455B3E9964A04B89A5131F5EBDC06E77@HeatherAcer>
	<2A7222CF02874CC0AA6031C049A4DB01@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <85F988C7CFE3460EAD03841CCFE4D9E6@HUMBERTOAVILA>

I think, in her introduction, she stated that she was a freshman in high
school. I might be wrong, though she can clarify.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 5:35 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

We don't know Sophie's age. If she is in middle school or beyond, I would 
agree an aid is unneccessary.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Heather Field
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:22 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Hello Sophie,
I'd like to make a few comments on your email.

Unfortunately, regarding who is taught braille and who is not, the truth is
depressing. it is very, very much a case of money. While the congress voted
to provide up to forty percent of the funding to cover the implementation of
the inclusion of special needs children in public schools, it has never
provided states with more than seventeen percent of the funds. Therefore, it
is extremely costly for a school district to provide braille for a student.
In many cases there is only one student who is obviously needing braille. It
is much easier for a school district to agree with everyone who doesn't want
to use the horrifying word "blind" and, instead, to give the functionally
blind child a cctv and large print and make them try to cope as a sighted
child.

The cost of one teacher is over $35,000, not to mention the braille
embossing equipment. So, while it isn't supposed to be about money Sophie, I
regret to inform you that money looms large in the decision making process.

As for your teacher aide being responsible for getting you around your
school safely, unless you have some medical conditions which require you to
have physical assistance, I simply cannot understand this statement on your
part.

I also am blind and I was walking myself independently around my high school
of seventeen hundred students from the age of twelve. I would rather have
died than to have had some teacher aide interfering with my forming normal
social interactions. It was hard enough being the odd kid who couldn't see.
I can't imagine how it would have been to have a teacher aide walking with
me. I don't believe that a hight school student needs a teacher aide to be
with them in any situation. By middle and high school students need to be
learning self-advocacy skills and using peers and/or the teacher for needed
assistance. A teacher aide should be preparing resources, assisting with
research in the library or online etc.
Every time your peers see you with your teacher aide you send them the
message that you are not as capable as them, that you are different and need
help to do what everyone else can already do.

If there are no medical conditions which make an aide necessary Sophie, I
would encourage you to wean yourself off walking around the school with an
aide. You will need to discourage the aide as well as they probably can't
imagine you not needing their help to get around the school. You'll be
amazed how able you really are. Incidentally, if the school is saying you
need an aide for safety and liability reasons, this is patently false.

Regards,
Heather



-----Original Message----- 
From: Sophie Trist
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 2:55 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Arielle,

With all due respect, I disagree. I am totally blind and started
my Braille instruction when I was three. I have a one-on-one
aide. This person's job is to make sure I can navigate safely
between classes and around the school. She also makes sure I have
all the braille materials when and where I need them. I also
believe that it is not ncessarily a question of money. It's a
question of getting good TVI's. Those are pretty hard to find. To
me, hope lies in us. Lots of college-age blind people are working
to become TVI's and OandM teachers. If more blind people became
TVI's, more blind children could get the services they needed.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 9 May 2012 00:52:06 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Arielle,
All good points.  I went to a resourceful and rich county school
system
While IMO my O&M teachers did not have high expectations and
encouraged
overliance on vision and memorizing routes, my vision teachers or
TVIS as
they are now called, were demanding.  Some more than others.  My
first one
is actually nationally known and wrote books on teaching braille
published
by AFB.
She taught me print and realized its limitations such as fatigue
and
slowness. She then taught me braille. However since I learned it
in second
grade, I had to catch up with my peers and this took a few years.
I was
expected to read during the summer. she sent braille material
home and the
print copy too so my parents could read with me.  I was drilled
on the
letters and later on what each letter represented as a word. I
had spelling
tests in braille. Also, a good thing they required me to do was
this.  Some
blind people struggle with spelling and literacy because of
seeing only
braille contractions. I was required to write the contraction if
I knew it
and spell the word out in all its letters, in other words grade 1
braille.
I did this for the class spelling tests, not the ones I had for
learning
braille.

This way I learned the spelling with my classmates, but also the
TVI saw
what braille contractions I knew and remembered.
I took most exams in braille when my skills were ready for it,
maybe in
fourth or fifth grade. I had mostly multiple choice ones; so I
just circled
or wrote down my  answer. Same tests as everyone else at the same
time; if I
needed it, I had extra time for them.
In upper grades, some textbooks they gave me both formats, so I
had a
choice. I had the braille text and the text from rfb.  I often
used a combo
of the two. I might listen to the chapter on tape, but skim for
the
highlights in braille.
However, the caseload of my TVIs was big and yes they could not
spend as
much time as they wanted to.  However, they did encourage
practice at home
and in class.  So some of it was up to me. If I did not want to
learn and
practice, I would not have improved.  It shouldn't be up to a
student to
take that responsibility, but we do given the situation.  Those
students who
did not read regularly in braille did not become as proficient.
Sighted students have to do some on their own too, but the
difference is
that a blind student can often get by with audio and a sighted
kid cannot.

For the braille crisis to stop, IMO we need a team approach; the
TVI, parent
and student have to be willing to make the commitment.

And, maybe not all kids need OT; that is why you have an
individualized
plan; I know I benefited from it and PT though. Instead of that,
hmm, maybe
a reading specialist. I suggest this because a reading specialist
can help
with learning deficits and weaknesses. My mom thought I had a
learning
disability and sometimes I think so too. For me my deficit was
fluency. a
reading specialist could help in this effort; help the child
decode faster
and therefore comprehend the words and with rapid decoding and
comprehension
comes fluency.  A reading specialist could also fill in the gaps
IMO when
the TVI isn't there.  This assumes the child needs help in
reading though.
But I suspect most blind kids do. Its my experience the regular
ed classroom
activities do not translate well to good emmergent braille
literacy. If you
all are not familiar  with education terms, some of this may not
make sense;
fluency is reading at a steady pace and decode means translating
the letters
to sounds in your head and forming words.

For instance, in first and second grade, we read as a class; the
teacher
pointed to words on the board or her book and everyone read
together.
Another activity is the teacher wrote on a board or transparency.
Now a
days probably a smart board. Anyway, then she has the class edit
it
together.  Still another activity involves matching pictures to
words so you
learn what they mean.  My point is that these rely on seeing the
teacher's
cues or pictures or something.

A blind student needs equivalent activities to develop literacy
skills.
Maybe a reading specialist in collaboration with  a TVI could
fill this
need. Just a thought though which will likely not happen.


-----Original Message-----
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 12:09 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy

Hi all,
It is obvious to all of us that we need to take action to ensure
that
the current and future generations of blind children will get the
Braille instruction they are entitled to and be held to the same
reading and writing standards as the sighted. However, I fear the
solution is much more complicated than just passing a national
Braille
bill. While I am not terribly familiar with Braille legislation,
I
have definitely seen cases where even in states with laws on
their
books mandating Braille instruction, kids are falling through the
cracks and not getting it. I know Arizona has adopted a Braille
bill
mandating that Braille is the "presumed reading medium" for all
blind
children unless the entire IEP team (including the child's
parents)
determines that the child can read and write optimally with
print. But
even in Arizona and other states with similar laws, some kids are
not
getting Braille. There are many ways teachers or school districts
can
get around the legal mandates. For example they can simply delay
holding an IEP meeting for a child or delay giving tests to
determine
whether or not the child is a functional print reader. They can
agree
to provide Braille but then only give a child 30 minutes per week
of
instruction because that's all the time the TVI has to work with
each
student. I've even heard of one case where a TVI insisted a
particular
child wasn't really legally blind even though this was clearly
spelled
out by the child's eye specialists. Passing a national Braille
bill is
an important step toward making change, but it won't be a viable
solution by itself unless everyone involved actually wants to
obey the
laws rather than finding loopholes around them, and when schools
have
the resources to provide the amount and quality of Braille
instruction
they are required to provide.
There are several serious problems with the system for educating
blind
children that need to be addressed in different ways. The
educational
system has long been dominated by professionals who are trained
to
view blindness as a deficit. Because of this overarching
philosophy,
they are not naturally inclined to aim toward giving blind and
sighted
students the same standard of education. I think there has always
been
too much of a focus in the blindness field about what blind
people
cannot do or what we do differently, rather than what we can do
and
what we share in common with sighted students. There is a
tendency to
be "reactive" and respond to deficits after they occur rather
than
being "proactive" and preventing kids from getting behind in the
first
place.
There are also lots of very negative attitudes about Braille
floating
around in the minds of some blindness professionals. Braille is
slow;
Braille is hard to learn; Braille sets a blind child apart from
others; Braille is only for totally blind people, who are
maximally
handicapped by their condition; Braille is bulky and hard to
produce;
Braille is expensive; Braille is antiquated and obsolete; etc.
etc.
With these kinds of attitudes, teachers aren't motivated to teach
Braille, and are more inclined to delay or avoid teaching Braille
whenever possible.
I have wondered whether much of the negativity toward Braille
comes
from sighted teachers' own difficulty in learning Braille
themselves
during training. For a sighted adult learning Braille is indeed
difficult at first, and building fluency takes time and
dedication.
Working from their own experiences, sighted teachers who
struggled to
learn Braille may believe that Braille is equally grueling and
overwhelming for their young students--but of course, it's not
because
learning to read at five is much different than learning to read
at
twenty-five. Even if this error of judgment is only unconscious,
it
can still affect their attitudes toward Braille and their
motivation
to teach it. This issue might be worse when teachers only spend a
few
months learning Braille and so they don't experience the
successful
improvement that comes from using Braille for years.
So, I think that legislation is only part of the solution. We
also
need to examine the psychology of the people involved in the
system
and figure out how to get the key players more excited about
Braille.
We want them to truly believe that blind children can achieve
full
competitive literacy with Braille instead of forcing them to
provide
literacy instruction that they don't really believe in. I think
what
the NFB is doing with the TeachBlindStudents and Teacher of
Tomorrow
programs is right on. We also just need to get more Braille
teachers
into the field who have had good experiences with Braille
themselves
and who truly believe in blind people. And, of course, the
educational
system for blind kids is just not well-funded and there aren't
enough
TVI's to go around. So even the good teachers are being spread
thin
with huge caseloads and simply don't have the time to provide
daily
instruction to every one of their students. We need to figure out
how
to reorganize the system so that the teachers' time is spent as
efficiently as possible without skimping on important lessons.
For
example, it seems like some of the special services given to
blind
kids are not always necessary and not always as important as
Braille.
I may be opening a whole other can of worms here, but it seems
like
almost every blind student these days (at least in elementary
school)
has a one-on-one aide who acts as the student's "eyes". Do all of
us
really need that kind of help? Do all blind preschoolers need
occupational therapy, physical therapy etc.? what would happen if
all
the money spent on the aides and therapists was instead spent to
hire
more Braille teachers so that kindergartners received daily
Braille
instruction? What would happen if children who were proficient in
Braille could read ahead in their books and then not be so
dependent
on an aide to read the blackboard because they could follow along
in
Braille? Wouldn't it make more sense to give a child intensive
one-on-one time with a TVI for a few years so they won't need
very
much extra support in the future? I may be naive, but I would
think
that would not only save the school districts some money in the
end,
but also bring out a generation of blind students who are
self-sufficient and can become taxpaying adults much more easily.
These are just my thoughts and observations about how we can help
make
change. I welcome any other thoughts or comments.
Best,
Arielle

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From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com  Thu May 10 01:06:26 2012
From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 18:06:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
In-Reply-To: <88680D55F430CF4593F993CADE7B0EDA3F807CA9@SN2PRD0102MB127.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <1336611986.98973.YahooMailClassic@web162004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Justin,
I really like the points you brought up here.
I grew up in a residential school in the 90s. I graduated from the Arkansas School for the Blind and they did not teach braille unless you were blind or really low vision. Infact I was one of the few students who could read braille or use a cane. The standards set at blind schools in my oppinion are really low and usually the students who attended these schools were students who could not make it in public school or were just simpely lazy. During my time at ASB, I saw quite alot of people who would start at the school for the blind and do really well, transfor to public school and not so well, and come back to the school for the blind and do well again. There is something really wrong with this in my oppinion. Every blind person know matter how much vission they have or if they have additional disabilities to their blindness has to be able to function in a mainstream "sighted" society. Those who are successful in making this adjustment, are the
 individuals who will grow up to be successful adults. Therefore, I personally favor to shut down blind schools or turn them as independent living centers to provide training in braille, mobility, independent living skills, and adaptive technology  for youth. Alot of students who graduate from the school for the blind including myself are simply not prepared for college or whatever is after graduation. Alot of teachers who teach at the school for the blind are not properly trained to work with blind students. Very few teachers at the school for the blind could read braille and hardly any of the teachers had the positive attitude about blindness or the willingness to work with blind students required to insure that all students including those who are totally blind receive proper training. To often I had teachers who wanted to put me in a separate class because I was the only blind student and they did not want to take the extra time or provide the
 necessary accomadations to insure that I received equal opportunity. So it comes as a total surprise when I tell people that I have received better support and accomadations in a mainstream public university than I did at the school for the blind.
Far as training TVIS, I agree with you that funding is a major problem. But I believe there is a grant available to train students who want to be TVI through the RSA similar to the grant that the rehabilitation counseling department has at my university available for individuals who want to enter this field. The Rehabilitation Counseling department at the University of Arkansas has a grant through the Rehabilitation Services Administration (RSA) which pays for the student's tuition and provides a sstippen of 2,200 dollars a semester with the agreement that the student will work in this field for at least two years eather for a government agency or a non-profit organization serving people with disabilities. If a student fails to do so, they must pay back the grant. If there is not a similar funding opportunity available for TVIS, perhaps this kind of program could help to recruit more and better individuals to this field. Frankly every teacher who wants
 to be a TVI, should be required to learn braille and mobility, and every teacher who wants to work at a blind school or a blind center, should be required to learn and use braille. If the blind schools are to remain open, then much higher standards should be expected from the teachers and students. 
Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
Hellen Keller


--- On Wed, 5/9/12, Salisbury, Justin Mark <SALISBURYJ08 at students.ecu.edu> wrote:

> From: Salisbury, Justin Mark <SALISBURYJ08 at students.ecu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
> To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2012, 2:35 PM
> I agree with the points that Arielle
> made, and I particularly think that we need to focus on the
> proper training of Braille teachers at this point in the
> game.  I don't think we currently have enough good
> Braille teachers in the United States to fulfill the needs
> of an optimal system.  
> 
> I was fortunate enough to grow up in Connecticut, so I was
> urged to start learning Braille by my high school and state
> agency at the beginning of my junior year, only a few months
> after I became blind.  I wanted to resist it at first
> because no kid likes the idea of more classes that aren't
> dominated by the opposite sex or physical activity, but I
> soon realized that my school and state agency were right;
> Braille is important!
> 
> I just finished 4 years of college in North Carolina, where
> I am also finishing my second term as President of the NC
> Association of Blind Students.  I have learned a lot
> about both states' systems, and I observe a vast difference
> in the prioritization of Braille.  There are often
> trained Braille teachers in the wealthy and
> densely-populated school districts in NC, but students with
> residual vision are encouraged to depend on what they have
> left.  I wouldn't know Braille today if I had grown up
> in North Carolina.  In my understanding, students who
> are not from equipped school districts who wish to receive
> Braille instruction are often forced to attend the
> residential school for the blind in Raleigh.  Veteran
> teachers at the residential school for the blind have told
> me that it has become the place for students with multiple
> disabilities or from impoverished backgrounds (while anyone
> who can be mainstreamed is), and they have seen a decrease
> in the morale and expectations as this shift has occurred.
> 
> I bring up the residential school topic because, if we were
> able to make the shift tomorrow to a most efficient system,
> I believe we would need all of the students and Braille
> teachers to be located in centralized hubs.  I believe
> attending a residential school should be a choice, but it
> seems to currently be a requirement for many students if
> they want a shot at learning Braille. 
> 
> We need more Braille teachers who are properly
> trained.  
> 
> The Next Step:
> To inspire people to enter the field, we need widespread
> budgetary allocations for the positions of Braille
> teachers.  North Carolina Central University
> consistently struggles to fill its TVI program because
> people aren't applying.
> 
> We should all write a book on this topic.
> 
> Justin
> 
> Justin M. Salisbury
> Undergraduate Student
> The Honors College
> East Carolina University
> salisburyj08 at students.ecu.edu
> 
> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing
> that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com
> 


From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com  Thu May 10 01:25:31 2012
From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 18:25:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
In-Reply-To: <88680D55F430CF4593F993CADE7B0EDA3F807CA9@SN2PRD0102MB127.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <1336613131.78236.YahooMailClassic@web162003.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I also think that all blind students especially those who are in high school should be required to produce their work in print and be required to convert their own print matterials. Although, in college students can get disability services to convert print matterial related to school, but every student is required to hand in assignments in print. Every blind individual needs to adjust to communicating in print or using main stream technology since majority of the society is not blind and in order to deal with the sighted world communicating in print is a must.

Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
Hellen Keller


--- On Wed, 5/9/12, Salisbury, Justin Mark <SALISBURYJ08 at students.ecu.edu> wrote:

> From: Salisbury, Justin Mark <SALISBURYJ08 at students.ecu.edu>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Taking Action to Improve Braille Literacy
> To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Wednesday, May 9, 2012, 2:35 PM
> I agree with the points that Arielle
> made, and I particularly think that we need to focus on the
> proper training of Braille teachers at this point in the
> game.  I don't think we currently have enough good
> Braille teachers in the United States to fulfill the needs
> of an optimal system.  
> 
> I was fortunate enough to grow up in Connecticut, so I was
> urged to start learning Braille by my high school and state
> agency at the beginning of my junior year, only a few months
> after I became blind.  I wanted to resist it at first
> because no kid likes the idea of more classes that aren't
> dominated by the opposite sex or physical activity, but I
> soon realized that my school and state agency were right;
> Braille is important!
> 
> I just finished 4 years of college in North Carolina, where
> I am also finishing my second term as President of the NC
> Association of Blind Students.  I have learned a lot
> about both states' systems, and I observe a vast difference
> in the prioritization of Braille.  There are often
> trained Braille teachers in the wealthy and
> densely-populated school districts in NC, but students with
> residual vision are encouraged to depend on what they have
> left.  I wouldn't know Braille today if I had grown up
> in North Carolina.  In my understanding, students who
> are not from equipped school districts who wish to receive
> Braille instruction are often forced to attend the
> residential school for the blind in Raleigh.  Veteran
> teachers at the residential school for the blind have told
> me that it has become the place for students with multiple
> disabilities or from impoverished backgrounds (while anyone
> who can be mainstreamed is), and they have seen a decrease
> in the morale and expectations as this shift has occurred.
> 
> I bring up the residential school topic because, if we were
> able to make the shift tomorrow to a most efficient system,
> I believe we would need all of the students and Braille
> teachers to be located in centralized hubs.  I believe
> attending a residential school should be a choice, but it
> seems to currently be a requirement for many students if
> they want a shot at learning Braille. 
> 
> We need more Braille teachers who are properly
> trained.  
> 
> The Next Step:
> To inspire people to enter the field, we need widespread
> budgetary allocations for the positions of Braille
> teachers.  North Carolina Central University
> consistently struggles to fill its TVI program because
> people aren't applying.
> 
> We should all write a book on this topic.
> 
> Justin
> 
> Justin M. Salisbury
> Undergraduate Student
> The Honors College
> East Carolina University
> salisburyj08 at students.ecu.edu
> 
> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing
> that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com
> 


From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Thu May 10 05:01:40 2012
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 22:01:40 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: NVDA screen reader News: NVDA 2012.2beta1 Released for
	Testing
Message-ID: <C31BFDC6AA0741FABEADBA4EBF87A728@HUMBERTOAVILA>

Please see below. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-announce-bounces at lists.nvaccess.org
[mailto:nvda-announce-bounces at lists.nvaccess.org] On Behalf Of NVDA
announcement list
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 9:21 PM
To: nvda-announce at lists.nvaccess.org
Subject: NVDA screen reader News: NVDA 2012.2beta1 Released for Testing

Hello all,

NV Access is pleased to announce the release of NVDA 2012.2beta1. It is 
intended for those who are interested in testing and evaluating the 
upcoming NVDA 2012.2 release, but is not recommended for production use. 
Testers are encouraged to report any bugs found while using this beta.

Note that some translations may not yet be updated. They will be updated 
by the time of the final 2012.2 release.

Highlights of this release include an in-built installer and  portable 
creation feature, automatic updates, easy management of new NVDA 
add-ons, announcement of graphics in Microsoft Word, support for Windows 
8 Metro style apps, and several important bug fixes.

For the full blog post and links to the download, please visit:
http://www.nvda-project.org/blog/NVDA2012.2beta1Released

thanks for your support of NVDA.

_______________________________________________
Nvda-announce mailing list
Nvda-announce at lists.nvaccess.org
http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-announce



From mworkman.lists at gmail.com  Thu May 10 15:40:45 2012
From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds NewJersey
	Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <002601cd2d7c$80fb4d40$82f1e7c0$@gmail.com>
References: <758F7D155D230647B0638EC9E3B6A62D04E0E96E03@VA3DIAXVS611.RED001.local>	<003001cd2ca4$3dbf0540$b93d0fc0$@gmail.com>	<001501cd2cae$df4cdae0$9de690a0$@mchsi.com>	<2856DC787B0E4E9882014F7F65E4BEA5@OwnerPC>	<CAO83KOvN8RGd+ZJ08HXNOBxmyg9WNH105DYhpBLRej7KPaxN+g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJD-cmw1YEOJ_SewED38v7-KHnHi_cdY9SEyMEvW-eo5=w@mail.gmail.com>
	<002601cd2d7c$80fb4d40$82f1e7c0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FBEC159-BC6D-42E5-B83E-162884A2382E@gmail.com>

I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced on them as a child. I resisted it with every argument an eight year old can muster. At several times throughout my primary and secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille even though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to resist. There are lots of things that children resist learning for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages, musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person. Braille falls into this category for me. Knowing it better would likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in french, particularly in Canada.

Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with statements like this one from Chris:

> "Without Braille, we can't read or write."

And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others making the same point in this thread. If Chris's statement is true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad, masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is illiterate. Without being too immodest, I think I write better than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an illiterate person.

Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want that for their children should receive the instruction they desire. Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille if they so desire. What I think is worth pointing out is that Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be successful, and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other skills.

Cheers,

Marc
On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

> A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was actually
> having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, who asked me
> whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of audio
> technology. I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that happening, I
> wouldn't want it. Why do I not see Braille going away? Because there are
> enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent that from
> happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary source of
> reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in audio format,
> although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes, isn't true
> literacy. Braille is our form of literacy. Without Braille, we can't read or
> write. This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or keep up with
> our sighted peers. So, I think we definitely still need Braille because it
> is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should get rid of
> print too!
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to resolve.
> What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, these battles
> aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first place. Parents
> capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child doesn't need
> Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy or legal
> resources to stick it out.
> The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the denial of
> Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people entrusted to
> promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a few weeks
> ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her with Braille
> copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school. Instead, the
> teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys representing
> the characters in the stories. I can understand using toys to substitute for
> the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the stories, why
> not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I might add that
> in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed, transcribing
> a book for preschoolers is not difficult. And even in this case with the
> Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's decision not to
> provide Braille. If even the folks who are charged to teach us literacy
> don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified teacher of
> blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to hold their
> students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of that
> certificate.
> I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to bring
> about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille today and
> in the future.
> Arielle
> 
> On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> How old is the child?
>> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
>> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
>> Any word on how old he is?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>> 
>> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> I agree, how  sad.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Loren
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ; 
>>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
>>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>> 
>>> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
>>> Would
>>> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?  
>>> Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for
> your child.
>>> 
>>> Loren Wakefield
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>>> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students 
>>> mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New 
>>> Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>>> To: Undisclosed recipients:
>>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>>> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> CONTACT:
>>> 
>>> Chris Danielsen
>>> 
>>> Director of Public Relations
>>> 
>>> National Federation of the Blind
>>> 
>>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>> 
>>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>> 
>>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
>>> Instruction for Blind Child
>>> 
>>> 
>>> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
>>> and
>>> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
>>> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
>>> 2011
>>> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
>>> Henry
>>> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
>>> and
>>> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
>>> assistance
>>> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
>>> comes
>>> on the heels of
>>> 
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20Duncan%20re
>>> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
>>> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
>>> need
>>> Braille instruction receive it.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
>>> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
>>> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
>>> print
>>> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods
>>> of
>>> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
>>> their
>>> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
>>> the
>>> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
>>> and
>>> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
>>> reader,
>>> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
>>> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
>>> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act
>>> of
>>> 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
>>> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
>>> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>>> instruction.
>>> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
>>> and
>>> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
>>> the
>>> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>>> participate
>>> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>>> concluded
>>> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
>>> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss
>>> of
>>> reading speed and comprehension.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
>>> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
>>> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
>>> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
>>> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
>>> failure
>>> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
>>> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
>>> as
>>> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
>>> pointed
>>> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
>>> equate
>>> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
>>> by
>>> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
>>> The
>>> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
>>> do,
>>> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
>>> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>>> James-Beavers
>>> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
>>> forty-five
>>> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
>>> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
>>> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
>>> tutoring.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
>>> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
>>> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
>>> years,
>>> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
>>> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
>>> when
>>> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
>>> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
>>> has
>>> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
>>> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
>>> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
>>> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
>>> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
>>> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
>>> in
>>> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
>>> which
>>> they deserve."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
>>> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle
>>> to
>>> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
>>> other
>>> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
>>> the
>>> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
>>> who
>>> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
>>> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>>> instruction
>>> for blind children."
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
>>> of
>>> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of the
>>> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
>>> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
>>> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
>>> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ###
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
>>> the
>>> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
>>> the
>>> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
>>> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
>>> and
>>> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
>>> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the
>>> National
>>> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
>>> training
>>> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>> 
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> net
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Thu May 10 20:06:25 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:06:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
	NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
Message-ID: <4fac1fea.ae71ec0a.3e2b.23be@mx.google.com>

Marc,

I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't 
read or write,", she was speaking of the totally blind. From your 
e-mail, I gather that you still have a good bit of my vision 
left. I am completely blind, so there is no possible way that I 
could learn print. Okay, I can learn to sign my name, but that's 
about it. So for those of us who are totally blind or whose 
vision is not reliable enough for them to read print (sorry, but 
I think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we 
could not read or write.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced 
on them as a child. I resisted it with every argument an eight 
year old can muster. At several times throughout my primary and 
secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille even 
though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to 
resist. There are lots of things that children resist learning 
for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages, 
musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute 
to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person. 
Braille falls into this category for me. Knowing it better would 
likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in 
french, particularly in Canada.

Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with 
statements like this one from Chris:

 "Without Braille, we can't read or write."

And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others 
making the same point in this thread. If Chris's statement is 
true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad, 
masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is 
illiterate. Without being too immodest, I think I write better 
than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an 
illiterate person.

Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want 
that for their children should receive the instruction they 
desire. Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille if 
they so desire. What I think is worth pointing out is that 
Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and 
write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be successful, 
and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent 
learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other 
skills.

Cheers,

Marc
On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

 A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was 
actually
 having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, 
who asked me
 whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of 
audio
 technology. I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that 
happening, I
 wouldn't want it. Why do I not see Braille going away? Because 
there are
 enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent 
that from
 happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary 
source of
 reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in 
audio format,
 although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes, 
isn't true
 literacy. Braille is our form of literacy. Without Braille, we 
can't read or
 write. This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or 
keep up with
 our sighted peers. So, I think we definitely still need Braille 
because it
 is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should 
get rid of
 print too!

 Chris

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
 Of Arielle Silverman
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to 
resolve.
 What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, 
these battles
 aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first 
place. Parents
 capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child 
doesn't need
 Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy 
or legal
 resources to stick it out.
 The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of 
the denial of
 Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people 
entrusted to
 promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a 
few weeks
 ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her 
with Braille
 copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school. 
Instead, the
 teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys 
representing
 the characters in the stories. I can understand using toys to 
substitute for
 the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the 
stories, why
 not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I 
might add that
 in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed, 
transcribing
 a book for preschoolers is not difficult. And even in this case 
with the
 Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's 
decision not to
 provide Braille. If even the folks who are charged to teach us 
literacy
 don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified 
teacher of
 blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to 
hold their
 students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of 
that
 certificate.
 I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful 
precedent to bring
 about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille 
today and
 in the future.
 Arielle

 On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
 How old is the child?
 I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
 Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
 Any word on how old he is?
 Thanks, Joshua

 On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
 I agree, how  sad.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Loren
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
 To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
 blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this 
decision.
 Would
 anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
 Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great 
thing for
 your child.

 Loren Wakefield



 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
 Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
 To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
 mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
New
 Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





 From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
 To: Undisclosed recipients:
 Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey 
Ruling on
 Braille Instruction for Blind Child



 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



 CONTACT:

 Chris Danielsen

 Director of Public Relations

 National Federation of the Blind

 (410) 659-9314, extension 2330

 (410) 262-1281 (Cell)

 <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




 National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on 
Braille
 Instruction for Blind Child


 After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille 
Instruction




 Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year 
administrative
 and
 legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport 
Board of
 Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket 
number:
 2011
 17218) from an administrative law judge that their 
eleven-year-old son
 Henry
 "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the 
reading
 and
 writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with 
the
 assistance
 of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  
(NFB),
 comes
 on the heels of

 
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
Duncan%20re
 %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging 
the
 Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind 
children who
 need
 Braille instruction receive it.



 Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of 
their son,
 Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to 
albinism and
 nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read 
enlarged
 print
 for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for 
sustained periods
 of
 time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school 
officials that
 their
 son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty 
reading,
 the
 school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for 
the Blind
 and
 Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient 
print
 reader,
 notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource 
room for
 language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due 
process
 provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education 
Improvement Act
 of
 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely 
struggle with
 his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was 
unable to
 convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
 instruction.
 She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same 
quantity
 and
 quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the 
school and
 the
 commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
 participate
 in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
 concluded
 after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for 
extended
 periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, 
and loss
 of
 reading speed and comprehension.



 In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found 
that the
 school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against 
Braille."
 She found that the school board and the commission had failed to 
assess
 Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead 
on reading
 assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's 
alleged
 failure
 to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was 
unconvinced by
 the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio 
technology
 as
 reading demands increased through his school years, noting that 
"as
 pointed
 out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening 
does not
 equate
 to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of 
comprehending text
 by
 passively listening, even if one is following along with the 
reading."
 The
 order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on 
them to
 do,
 which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. 
meaningful
 educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
 James-Beavers
 ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction 
for
 forty-five
 minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide 
compensatory
 instruction because of the three years that Hank was not 
provided with
 Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer 
programs or
 tutoring.



 Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the 
Blind, said:
 "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children 
and blind
 adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over 
the
 years,
 the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued 
that blind
 children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille 
instruction
 when
 it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and 
comprehensive
 examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an 
independent judge
 has
 confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency 
officials
 across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit 
to giving
 blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for 
the vast
 majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The 
National
 Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families 
like the
 Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational 
establishment
 in
 obtaining the equal education to which their children are 
entitled and
 which
 they deserve."



 Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with 
this
 ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a 
prolonged battle
 to
 achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes 
that
 other
 parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  
I thank
 the
 National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and 
experts
 who
 came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and 
publicly
 advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
 instruction
 for blind children."



 The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon 
Krevor-Weisbaum
 of
 the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. 
Wesler of the
 Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



 For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, 
please
 visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information 
about
 Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please 
visit
 www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







 ###





 About the National Federation of the Blind



 With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the 
Blind is
 the
 largest and most influential membership organization of blind 
people in
 the
 United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through 
advocacy,
 education, research, technology, and programs encouraging 
independence
 and
 self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field 
today and
 the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened 
the
 National
 Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research 
and
 training
 center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



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From mworkman.lists at gmail.com  Thu May 10 22:34:07 2012
From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:34:07 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
	NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <4fac1fea.ae71ec0a.3e2b.23be@mx.google.com>
References: <4fac1fea.ae71ec0a.3e2b.23be@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <4C29DC8E-F42E-4D4B-968F-B1CCBABC3048@gmail.com>

Hello Sophie,

I haven't been able to read print for a good ten years. I'm not totally blind, no, but I'm near enough as makes no difference. So if not reading print and not reading Braille makes one illiterate, then I am one of those rare illiterates that spends most of his day reading and writing.

I do think that, at least for a person who learned print, using a screen reader to listen to an email or a journal article is analogous to reading. I would be willing to lay down a small sum of money on the bet that performing an FMRI scan of my brain while i'm reading with a screen reader would show activity in the same parts of the brain that light up in sighted people when they read print. I don't know this for sure, just a hunch, especially since I often visualize letters and words as the screen reader echoes them. If anyone knows of research in this area, I'd be interested.

Marc
On 2012-05-10, at 1:06 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:

> Marc,
> 
> I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't read or write,", she was speaking of the totally blind. From your e-mail, I gather that you still have a good bit of my vision left. I am completely blind, so there is no possible way that I could learn print. Okay, I can learn to sign my name, but that's about it. So for those of us who are totally blind or whose vision is not reliable enough for them to read print (sorry, but I think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we could not read or write.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced on them as a child. I resisted it with every argument an eight year old can muster. At several times throughout my primary and secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille even though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.
> 
> Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to resist. There are lots of things that children resist learning for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages, musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person. Braille falls into this category for me. Knowing it better would likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in french, particularly in Canada.
> 
> Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with statements like this one from Chris:
> 
> "Without Braille, we can't read or write."
> 
> And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others making the same point in this thread. If Chris's statement is true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad, masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is illiterate. Without being too immodest, I think I write better than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an illiterate person.
> 
> Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want that for their children should receive the instruction they desire. Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille if they so desire. What I think is worth pointing out is that Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be successful, and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other skills.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Marc
> On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
> 
> A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was actually
> having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, who asked me
> whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of audio
> technology. I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that happening, I
> wouldn't want it. Why do I not see Braille going away? Because there are
> enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent that from
> happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary source of
> reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in audio format,
> although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes, isn't true
> literacy. Braille is our form of literacy. Without Braille, we can't read or
> write. This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or keep up with
> our sighted peers. So, I think we definitely still need Braille because it
> is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should get rid of
> print too!
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to resolve.
> What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, these battles
> aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first place. Parents
> capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child doesn't need
> Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy or legal
> resources to stick it out.
> The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the denial of
> Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people entrusted to
> promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a few weeks
> ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her with Braille
> copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school. Instead, the
> teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys representing
> the characters in the stories. I can understand using toys to substitute for
> the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the stories, why
> not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I might add that
> in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed, transcribing
> a book for preschoolers is not difficult. And even in this case with the
> Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's decision not to
> provide Braille. If even the folks who are charged to teach us literacy
> don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified teacher of
> blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to hold their
> students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of that
> certificate.
> I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to bring
> about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille today and
> in the future.
> Arielle
> 
> On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> How old is the child?
> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
> Any word on how old he is?
> Thanks, Joshua
> 
> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I agree, how  sad.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loren
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
> Would
> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
> Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for
> your child.
> 
> Loren Wakefield
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
> Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
> To: Undisclosed recipients:
> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> 
> 
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> 
> 
> 
> CONTACT:
> 
> Chris Danielsen
> 
> Director of Public Relations
> 
> National Federation of the Blind
> 
> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
> 
> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
> 
> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
> Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> 
> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
> and
> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
> 2011
> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
> Henry
> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
> and
> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
> assistance
> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
> comes
> on the heels of
> 
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
> Duncan%20re
> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
> need
> Braille instruction receive it.
> 
> 
> 
> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
> print
> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods
> of
> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
> their
> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
> the
> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
> and
> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
> reader,
> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act
> of
> 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
> instruction.
> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
> and
> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
> the
> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
> participate
> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
> concluded
> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss
> of
> reading speed and comprehension.
> 
> 
> 
> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
> failure
> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
> as
> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
> pointed
> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
> equate
> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
> by
> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
> The
> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
> do,
> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. meaningful
> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
> James-Beavers
> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
> forty-five
> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
> tutoring.
> 
> 
> 
> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
> years,
> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
> when
> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
> has
> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
> in
> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
> which
> they deserve."
> 
> 
> 
> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle
> to
> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
> other
> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
> the
> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
> who
> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
> instruction
> for blind children."
> 
> 
> 
> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
> of
> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. Wesler of the
> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
> 
> 
> 
> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ###
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About the National Federation of the Blind
> 
> 
> 
> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
> the
> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
> the
> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
> and
> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the
> National
> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
> training
> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Fri May 11 02:25:35 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 21:25:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
	ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
Message-ID: <4fac78c8.0d62650a.56e0.4596@mx.google.com>

But I'm confused. Do you just use audio materials to read? For 
writing, I guess you just type on a computer--that's what I do 
too. I would be curious to know how someone who doesn't read 
braille or print can read.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:34:07 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind 
ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Hello Sophie,

I haven't been able to read print for a good ten years. I'm not 
totally blind, no, but I'm near enough as makes no difference. So 
if not reading print and not reading Braille makes one 
illiterate, then I am one of those rare illiterates that spends 
most of his day reading and writing.

I do think that, at least for a person who learned print, using a 
screen reader to listen to an email or a journal article is 
analogous to reading. I would be willing to lay down a small sum 
of money on the bet that performing an FMRI scan of my brain 
while i'm reading with a screen reader would show activity in the 
same parts of the brain that light up in sighted people when they 
read print. I don't know this for sure, just a hunch, especially 
since I often visualize letters and words as the screen reader 
echoes them. If anyone knows of research in this area, I'd be 
interested.

Marc
On 2012-05-10, at 1:06 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:

 Marc,

 I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't 
read or write,", she was speaking of the totally blind. From your 
e-mail, I gather that you still have a good bit of my vision 
left. I am completely blind, so there is no possible way that I 
could learn print. Okay, I can learn to sign my name, but that's 
about it. So for those of us who are totally blind or whose 
vision is not reliable enough for them to read print (sorry, but 
I think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we 
could not read or write.

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced 
on them as a child. I resisted it with every argument an eight 
year old can muster. At several times throughout my primary and 
secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille even 
though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.

 Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to 
resist. There are lots of things that children resist learning 
for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages, 
musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute 
to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person. 
Braille falls into this category for me. Knowing it better would 
likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in 
french, particularly in Canada.

 Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with 
statements like this one from Chris:

 "Without Braille, we can't read or write."

 And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others 
making the same point in this thread. If Chris's statement is 
true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad, 
masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is 
illiterate. Without being too immodest, I think I write better 
than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an 
illiterate person.

 Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want 
that for their children should receive the instruction they 
desire. Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille if 
they so desire. What I think is worth pointing out is that 
Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and 
write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be successful, 
and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent 
learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other 
skills.

 Cheers,

 Marc
 On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

 A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was 
actually
 having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, 
who asked me
 whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of 
audio
 technology. I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that 
happening, I
 wouldn't want it. Why do I not see Braille going away? Because 
there are
 enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent 
that from
 happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary 
source of
 reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in 
audio format,
 although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes, 
isn't true
 literacy. Braille is our form of literacy. Without Braille, we 
can't read or
 write. This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or 
keep up with
 our sighted peers. So, I think we definitely still need Braille 
because it
 is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should 
get rid of
 print too!

 Chris

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
 Of Arielle Silverman
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to 
resolve.
 What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, 
these battles
 aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first 
place. Parents
 capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child 
doesn't need
 Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy 
or legal
 resources to stick it out.
 The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of 
the denial of
 Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people 
entrusted to
 promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a 
few weeks
 ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her 
with Braille
 copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school. 
Instead, the
 teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys 
representing
 the characters in the stories. I can understand using toys to 
substitute for
 the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the 
stories, why
 not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I 
might add that
 in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed, 
transcribing
 a book for preschoolers is not difficult. And even in this case 
with the
 Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's 
decision not to
 provide Braille. If even the folks who are charged to teach us 
literacy
 don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified 
teacher of
 blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to 
hold their
 students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of 
that
 certificate.
 I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful 
precedent to bring
 about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille 
today and
 in the future.
 Arielle

 On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
 How old is the child?
 I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
 Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
 Any word on how old he is?
 Thanks, Joshua

 On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
 I agree, how  sad.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Loren
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
 To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
 blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this 
decision.
 Would
 anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
 Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great 
thing for
 your child.

 Loren Wakefield



 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
 Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
 To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
 mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
New
 Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





 From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
 To: Undisclosed recipients:
 Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey 
Ruling on
 Braille Instruction for Blind Child



 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



 CONTACT:

 Chris Danielsen

 Director of Public Relations

 National Federation of the Blind

 (410) 659-9314, extension 2330

 (410) 262-1281 (Cell)

 <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




 National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on 
Braille
 Instruction for Blind Child


 After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille 
Instruction




 Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year 
administrative
 and
 legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport 
Board of
 Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket 
number:
 2011
 17218) from an administrative law judge that their 
eleven-year-old son
 Henry
 "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the 
reading
 and
 writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with 
the
 assistance
 of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  
(NFB),
 comes
 on the heels of

 
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
 Duncan%20re
 %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging 
the
 Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind 
children who
 need
 Braille instruction receive it.



 Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of 
their son,
 Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to 
albinism and
 nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read 
enlarged
 print
 for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for 
sustained periods
 of
 time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school 
officials that
 their
 son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty 
reading,
 the
 school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for 
the Blind
 and
 Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient 
print
 reader,
 notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource 
room for
 language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due 
process
 provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education 
Improvement Act
 of
 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely 
struggle with
 his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was 
unable to
 convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
 instruction.
 She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same 
quantity
 and
 quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the 
school and
 the
 commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
 participate
 in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
 concluded
 after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for 
extended
 periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, 
and loss
 of
 reading speed and comprehension.



 In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found 
that the
 school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against 
Braille."
 She found that the school board and the commission had failed to 
assess
 Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead 
on reading
 assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's 
alleged
 failure
 to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was 
unconvinced by
 the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio 
technology
 as
 reading demands increased through his school years, noting that 
"as
 pointed
 out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening 
does not
 equate
 to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of 
comprehending text
 by
 passively listening, even if one is following along with the 
reading."
 The
 order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on 
them to
 do,
 which is to help construct a program that would give H.M. 
meaningful
 educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
 James-Beavers
 ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction 
for
 forty-five
 minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide 
compensatory
 instruction because of the three years that Hank was not 
provided with
 Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer 
programs or
 tutoring.



 Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the 
Blind, said:
 "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children 
and blind
 adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over 
the
 years,
 the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued 
that blind
 children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille 
instruction
 when
 it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and 
comprehensive
 examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an 
independent judge
 has
 confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency 
officials
 across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit 
to giving
 blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for 
the vast
 majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The 
National
 Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families 
like the
 Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational 
establishment
 in
 obtaining the equal education to which their children are 
entitled and
 which
 they deserve."



 Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with 
this
 ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a 
prolonged battle
 to
 achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes 
that
 other
 parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  
I thank
 the
 National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and 
experts
 who
 came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and 
publicly
 advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
 instruction
 for blind children."



 The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon 
Krevor-Weisbaum
 of
 the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M. 
Wesler of the
 Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



 For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, 
please
 visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information 
about
 Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please 
visit
 www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







 ###





 About the National Federation of the Blind



 With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the 
Blind is
 the
 largest and most influential membership organization of blind 
people in
 the
 United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through 
advocacy,
 education, research, technology, and programs encouraging 
independence
 and
 self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field 
today and
 the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened 
the
 National
 Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research 
and
 training
 center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri May 11 02:34:08 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 21:34:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
 ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <4fac78c8.0d62650a.56e0.4596@mx.google.com>
References: <4fac78c8.0d62650a.56e0.4596@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOuCTHiPr8dbB6qfFE4co=ADSc8Nm8goS96rz3_wQOSDvA@mail.gmail.com>

Mark:
There are advantages to learning Braille!
What if the screenreader stops working?
Please learn Braille!
Hadley has a great program, if you can go over there.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/10/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> But I'm confused. Do you just use audio materials to read? For
> writing, I guess you just type on a computer--that's what I do
> too. I would be curious to know how someone who doesn't read
> braille or print can read.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:34:07 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
> ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> Hello Sophie,
>
> I haven't been able to read print for a good ten years. I'm not
> totally blind, no, but I'm near enough as makes no difference. So
> if not reading print and not reading Braille makes one
> illiterate, then I am one of those rare illiterates that spends
> most of his day reading and writing.
>
> I do think that, at least for a person who learned print, using a
> screen reader to listen to an email or a journal article is
> analogous to reading. I would be willing to lay down a small sum
> of money on the bet that performing an FMRI scan of my brain
> while i'm reading with a screen reader would show activity in the
> same parts of the brain that light up in sighted people when they
> read print. I don't know this for sure, just a hunch, especially
> since I often visualize letters and words as the screen reader
> echoes them. If anyone knows of research in this area, I'd be
> interested.
>
> Marc
> On 2012-05-10, at 1:06 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>
>  Marc,
>
>  I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't
> read or write,", she was speaking of the totally blind. From your
> e-mail, I gather that you still have a good bit of my vision
> left. I am completely blind, so there is no possible way that I
> could learn print. Okay, I can learn to sign my name, but that's
> about it. So for those of us who are totally blind or whose
> vision is not reliable enough for them to read print (sorry, but
> I think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we
> could not read or write.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>  I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced
> on them as a child. I resisted it with every argument an eight
> year old can muster. At several times throughout my primary and
> secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille even
> though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.
>
>  Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to
> resist. There are lots of things that children resist learning
> for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages,
> musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute
> to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person.
> Braille falls into this category for me. Knowing it better would
> likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in
> french, particularly in Canada.
>
>  Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with
> statements like this one from Chris:
>
>  "Without Braille, we can't read or write."
>
>  And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others
> making the same point in this thread. If Chris's statement is
> true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad,
> masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is
> illiterate. Without being too immodest, I think I write better
> than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an
> illiterate person.
>
>  Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want
> that for their children should receive the instruction they
> desire. Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille if
> they so desire. What I think is worth pointing out is that
> Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and
> write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be successful,
> and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent
> learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other
> skills.
>
>  Cheers,
>
>  Marc
>  On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>
>  A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was
> actually
>  having a similar conversation with my school librarian today,
> who asked me
>  whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of
> audio
>  technology. I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that
> happening, I
>  wouldn't want it. Why do I not see Braille going away? Because
> there are
>  enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent
> that from
>  happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary
> source of
>  reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in
> audio format,
>  although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes,
> isn't true
>  literacy. Braille is our form of literacy. Without Braille, we
> can't read or
>  write. This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or
> keep up with
>  our sighted peers. So, I think we definitely still need Braille
> because it
>  is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should
> get rid of
>  print too!
>
>  Chris
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>  Of Arielle Silverman
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
> Applauds
>  NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>  It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to
> resolve.
>  What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children,
> these battles
>  aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first
> place. Parents
>  capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child
> doesn't need
>  Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy
> or legal
>  resources to stick it out.
>  The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of
> the denial of
>  Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
> entrusted to
>  promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a
> few weeks
>  ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her
> with Braille
>  copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.
> Instead, the
>  teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys
> representing
>  the characters in the stories. I can understand using toys to
> substitute for
>  the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the
> stories, why
>  not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I
> might add that
>  in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed,
> transcribing
>  a book for preschoolers is not difficult. And even in this case
> with the
>  Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's
> decision not to
>  provide Braille. If even the folks who are charged to teach us
> literacy
>  don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified
> teacher of
>  blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to
> hold their
>  students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of
> that
>  certificate.
>  I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful
> precedent to bring
>  about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille
> today and
>  in the future.
>  Arielle
>
>  On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>  How old is the child?
>  I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
>  Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
>  Any word on how old he is?
>  Thanks, Joshua
>
>  On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>  I agree, how  sad.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Loren
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>  To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
> Applauds
>  NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>  It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this
> decision.
>  Would
>  anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
>  Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great
> thing for
>  your child.
>
>  Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>  Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>  To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
>  mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>  Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> New
>  Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>
>
>  From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>  To: Undisclosed recipients:
>  Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
> Ruling on
>  Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>  FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
>  CONTACT:
>
>  Chris Danielsen
>
>  Director of Public Relations
>
>  National Federation of the Blind
>
>  (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
>  (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
>  <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
>  National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
> Braille
>  Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>  After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
> Instruction
>
>
>
>
>  Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
> administrative
>  and
>  legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
> Board of
>  Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
> number:
>  2011
>  17218) from an administrative law judge that their
> eleven-year-old son
>  Henry
>  "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
> reading
>  and
>  writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
> the
>  assistance
>  of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>
> (NFB),
>  comes
>  on the heels of
>
>
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
>  Duncan%20re
>  %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging
> the
>  Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
> children who
>  need
>  Braille instruction receive it.
>
>
>
>  Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
> their son,
>  Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
> albinism and
>  nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
> enlarged
>  print
>  for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
> sustained periods
>  of
>  time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
> officials that
>  their
>  son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
> reading,
>  the
>  school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
> the Blind
>  and
>  Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
> print
>  reader,
>  notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
> room for
>  language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
> process
>  provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
> Improvement Act
>  of
>  2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
> struggle with
>  his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
> unable to
>  convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>  instruction.
>  She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
> quantity
>  and
>  quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
> school and
>  the
>  commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>  participate
>  in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>  concluded
>  after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
> extended
>  periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue,
> and loss
>  of
>  reading speed and comprehension.
>
>
>
>  In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
> that the
>  school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
> Braille."
>  She found that the school board and the commission had failed to
> assess
>  Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
> on reading
>  assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
> alleged
>  failure
>  to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
> unconvinced by
>  the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
> technology
>  as
>  reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
> "as
>  pointed
>  out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
> does not
>  equate
>  to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
> comprehending text
>  by
>  passively listening, even if one is following along with the
> reading."
>  The
>  order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on
> them to
>  do,
>  which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
> meaningful
>  educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>  James-Beavers
>  ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
> for
>  forty-five
>  minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
> compensatory
>  instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
> provided with
>  Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
> programs or
>  tutoring.
>
>
>
>  Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
> Blind, said:
>  "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
> and blind
>  adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
> the
>  years,
>  the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
> that blind
>  children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
> instruction
>  when
>  it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
> comprehensive
>  examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
> independent judge
>  has
>  confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
> officials
>  across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
> to giving
>  blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
> the vast
>  majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
> National
>  Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
> like the
>  Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
> establishment
>  in
>  obtaining the equal education to which their children are
> entitled and
>  which
>  they deserve."
>
>
>
>  Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with
> this
>  ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
> prolonged battle
>  to
>  achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes
> that
>  other
>  parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
> I thank
>  the
>  National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
> experts
>  who
>  came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
> publicly
>  advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>  instruction
>  for blind children."
>
>
>
>  The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
> Krevor-Weisbaum
>  of
>  the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
> Wesler of the
>  Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>
>
>
>  For more information about the National Federation of the Blind,
> please
>  visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
> about
>  Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
> visit
>  www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ###
>
>
>
>
>
>  About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
>  With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
> Blind is
>  the
>  largest and most influential membership organization of blind
> people in
>  the
>  United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through
> advocacy,
>  education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
> independence
>  and
>  self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field
> today and
>  the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened
> the
>  National
>  Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
> and
>  training
>  center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri May 11 02:46:57 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 22:46:57 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
	BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <4fac78c8.0d62650a.56e0.4596@mx.google.com>
References: <4fac78c8.0d62650a.56e0.4596@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <7024BD80A7DA404CAD4DD6FE538847D2@OwnerPC>

Sophie,
I'm confused too. Yes you could write by typing provided you know how to 
structure it; how to spell, where to punctuate your sentences, etc.
As someone who learned to spell, punctuate words and sentences, learned the 
concept of a paragraph, and more from really reading in braille, I cannot 
see how you can grasp the english language without first seeing the 
language. If you can read print or read it before your vision declined which 
I think is Marc's case, yes you can remember the english structure and 
continue your literacy skills.
But for someone young enough not to learn the structure and semantics of the 
english language, I fail to understand how you can learn it simply via 
audio. For instance, in audio I cannot see where one paragraph ends and 
another begins; this causes problems in college english classes because the 
professor says see paragraph 1, 2 etc on page 3 or whatever.
When I only hear, I cannot see how to spell and therefore have to ask 
someone if I do not know its spelling already; I have been marked down in 
college papers for failing to spell technical terms like drug names in 
psychology papers. I did not
ask a reader how to spell all of them. So these are just some challenges 
with audio learning.
I think my literacy skills would be much weaker if I were not held to a high 
standard in elementary school and learned to spell and learned braille.

Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Sophie Trist
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:25 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the 
BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

But I'm confused. Do you just use audio materials to read? For
writing, I guess you just type on a computer--that's what I do
too. I would be curious to know how someone who doesn't read
braille or print can read.

----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:34:07 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Hello Sophie,

I haven't been able to read print for a good ten years. I'm not
totally blind, no, but I'm near enough as makes no difference. So
if not reading print and not reading Braille makes one
illiterate, then I am one of those rare illiterates that spends
most of his day reading and writing.

I do think that, at least for a person who learned print, using a
screen reader to listen to an email or a journal article is
analogous to reading. I would be willing to lay down a small sum
of money on the bet that performing an FMRI scan of my brain
while i'm reading with a screen reader would show activity in the
same parts of the brain that light up in sighted people when they
read print. I don't know this for sure, just a hunch, especially
since I often visualize letters and words as the screen reader
echoes them. If anyone knows of research in this area, I'd be
interested.

Marc
On 2012-05-10, at 1:06 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:

Marc,

I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't
read or write,", she was speaking of the totally blind. From your
e-mail, I gather that you still have a good bit of my vision
left. I am completely blind, so there is no possible way that I
could learn print. Okay, I can learn to sign my name, but that's
about it. So for those of us who are totally blind or whose
vision is not reliable enough for them to read print (sorry, but
I think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we
could not read or write.

----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced
on them as a child. I resisted it with every argument an eight
year old can muster. At several times throughout my primary and
secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille even
though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to
resist. There are lots of things that children resist learning
for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages,
musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute
to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person.
Braille falls into this category for me. Knowing it better would
likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in
french, particularly in Canada.

Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with
statements like this one from Chris:

"Without Braille, we can't read or write."

And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others
making the same point in this thread. If Chris's statement is
true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad,
masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is
illiterate. Without being too immodest, I think I write better
than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an
illiterate person.

Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want
that for their children should receive the instruction they
desire. Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille if
they so desire. What I think is worth pointing out is that
Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and
write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be successful,
and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent
learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other
skills.

Cheers,

Marc
On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was
actually
having a similar conversation with my school librarian today,
who asked me
whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of
audio
technology. I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that
happening, I
wouldn't want it. Why do I not see Braille going away? Because
there are
enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent
that from
happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary
source of
reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in
audio format,
although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes,
isn't true
literacy. Braille is our form of literacy. Without Braille, we
can't read or
write. This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or
keep up with
our sighted peers. So, I think we definitely still need Braille
because it
is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should
get rid of
print too!

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Arielle Silverman
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to
resolve.
What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children,
these battles
aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first
place. Parents
capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child
doesn't need
Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy
or legal
resources to stick it out.
The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of
the denial of
Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
entrusted to
promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a
few weeks
ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her
with Braille
copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.
Instead, the
teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys
representing
the characters in the stories. I can understand using toys to
substitute for
the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the
stories, why
not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I
might add that
in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed,
transcribing
a book for preschoolers is not difficult. And even in this case
with the
Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's
decision not to
provide Braille. If even the folks who are charged to teach us
literacy
don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified
teacher of
blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to
hold their
students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of
that
certificate.
I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful
precedent to bring
about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille
today and
in the future.
Arielle

On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
How old is the child?
I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
Any word on how old he is?
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
I agree, how  sad.

-----Original Message-----
From: Loren
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this
decision.
Would
anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great
thing for
your child.

Loren Wakefield



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
New
Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
To: Undisclosed recipients:
Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
Ruling on
Braille Instruction for Blind Child



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

<mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
Braille
Instruction for Blind Child


After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
Instruction




Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
administrative
and
legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
Board of
Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
number:
2011
17218) from an administrative law judge that their
eleven-year-old son
Henry
"Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
reading
and
writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
the
assistance
of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>
(NFB),
comes
on the heels of


<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
Duncan%20re
%20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging
the
Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
children who
need
Braille instruction receive it.



Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
their son,
Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
albinism and
nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
enlarged
print
for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
sustained periods
of
time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
officials that
their
son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
reading,
the
school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
the Blind
and
Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
print
reader,
notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
room for
language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
process
provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
Improvement Act
of
2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
struggle with
his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
unable to
convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
instruction.
She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
quantity
and
quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
school and
the
commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
participate
in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
concluded
after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
extended
periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue,
and loss
of
reading speed and comprehension.



In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
that the
school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
Braille."
She found that the school board and the commission had failed to
assess
Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
on reading
assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
alleged
failure
to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
unconvinced by
the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
technology
as
reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
"as
pointed
out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
does not
equate
to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
comprehending text
by
passively listening, even if one is following along with the
reading."
The
order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on
them to
do,
which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
meaningful
educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
James-Beavers
ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
for
forty-five
minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
compensatory
instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
provided with
Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
programs or
tutoring.



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
Blind, said:
"Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
and blind
adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
the
years,
the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
that blind
children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
instruction
when
it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
comprehensive
examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
independent judge
has
confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
officials
across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
to giving
blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
the vast
majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
National
Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
like the
Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
establishment
in
obtaining the equal education to which their children are
entitled and
which
they deserve."



Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with
this
ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
prolonged battle
to
achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes
that
other
parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
I thank
the
National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
experts
who
came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
publicly
advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
instruction
for blind children."



The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
Krevor-Weisbaum
of
the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
Wesler of the
Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



For more information about the National Federation of the Blind,
please
visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
about
Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
visit
www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







###





About the National Federation of the Blind



With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
Blind is
the
largest and most influential membership organization of blind
people in
the
United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through
advocacy,
education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
independence
and
self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field
today and
the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened
the
National
Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
and
training
center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri May 11 02:48:50 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 22:48:50 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
	BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <4fac78c8.0d62650a.56e0.4596@mx.google.com>
References: <4fac78c8.0d62650a.56e0.4596@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <6F6489A7C5E142C3B68DD05E45252FE5@OwnerPC>

Sophie,
are you a braille reader? How do you do your school work? Use Learning ally, 
braille, a combo of them?
I used a combo of braille and audio in high school. What grade are you in? 
there are advantages to braille!

-----Original Message----- 
From: Sophie Trist
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:25 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the 
BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

But I'm confused. Do you just use audio materials to read? For
writing, I guess you just type on a computer--that's what I do
too. I would be curious to know how someone who doesn't read
braille or print can read.

----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:34:07 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Hello Sophie,

I haven't been able to read print for a good ten years. I'm not
totally blind, no, but I'm near enough as makes no difference. So
if not reading print and not reading Braille makes one
illiterate, then I am one of those rare illiterates that spends
most of his day reading and writing.

I do think that, at least for a person who learned print, using a
screen reader to listen to an email or a journal article is
analogous to reading. I would be willing to lay down a small sum
of money on the bet that performing an FMRI scan of my brain
while i'm reading with a screen reader would show activity in the
same parts of the brain that light up in sighted people when they
read print. I don't know this for sure, just a hunch, especially
since I often visualize letters and words as the screen reader
echoes them. If anyone knows of research in this area, I'd be
interested.

Marc
On 2012-05-10, at 1:06 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:

Marc,

I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't
read or write,", she was speaking of the totally blind. From your
e-mail, I gather that you still have a good bit of my vision
left. I am completely blind, so there is no possible way that I
could learn print. Okay, I can learn to sign my name, but that's
about it. So for those of us who are totally blind or whose
vision is not reliable enough for them to read print (sorry, but
I think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we
could not read or write.

----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced
on them as a child. I resisted it with every argument an eight
year old can muster. At several times throughout my primary and
secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille even
though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to
resist. There are lots of things that children resist learning
for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages,
musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute
to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person.
Braille falls into this category for me. Knowing it better would
likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in
french, particularly in Canada.

Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with
statements like this one from Chris:

"Without Braille, we can't read or write."

And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others
making the same point in this thread. If Chris's statement is
true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad,
masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is
illiterate. Without being too immodest, I think I write better
than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an
illiterate person.

Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want
that for their children should receive the instruction they
desire. Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille if
they so desire. What I think is worth pointing out is that
Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and
write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be successful,
and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent
learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other
skills.

Cheers,

Marc
On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was
actually
having a similar conversation with my school librarian today,
who asked me
whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of
audio
technology. I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that
happening, I
wouldn't want it. Why do I not see Braille going away? Because
there are
enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent
that from
happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary
source of
reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in
audio format,
although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes,
isn't true
literacy. Braille is our form of literacy. Without Braille, we
can't read or
write. This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or
keep up with
our sighted peers. So, I think we definitely still need Braille
because it
is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should
get rid of
print too!

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Arielle Silverman
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to
resolve.
What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children,
these battles
aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first
place. Parents
capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child
doesn't need
Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy
or legal
resources to stick it out.
The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of
the denial of
Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
entrusted to
promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a
few weeks
ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her
with Braille
copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.
Instead, the
teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys
representing
the characters in the stories. I can understand using toys to
substitute for
the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the
stories, why
not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I
might add that
in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed,
transcribing
a book for preschoolers is not difficult. And even in this case
with the
Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's
decision not to
provide Braille. If even the folks who are charged to teach us
literacy
don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified
teacher of
blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to
hold their
students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of
that
certificate.
I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful
precedent to bring
about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille
today and
in the future.
Arielle

On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
How old is the child?
I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
Any word on how old he is?
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
I agree, how  sad.

-----Original Message-----
From: Loren
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this
decision.
Would
anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great
thing for
your child.

Loren Wakefield



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
New
Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
To: Undisclosed recipients:
Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
Ruling on
Braille Instruction for Blind Child



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

<mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
Braille
Instruction for Blind Child


After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
Instruction




Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
administrative
and
legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
Board of
Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
number:
2011
17218) from an administrative law judge that their
eleven-year-old son
Henry
"Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
reading
and
writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
the
assistance
of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>
(NFB),
comes
on the heels of


<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
Duncan%20re
%20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging
the
Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
children who
need
Braille instruction receive it.



Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
their son,
Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
albinism and
nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
enlarged
print
for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
sustained periods
of
time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
officials that
their
son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
reading,
the
school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
the Blind
and
Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
print
reader,
notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
room for
language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
process
provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
Improvement Act
of
2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
struggle with
his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
unable to
convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
instruction.
She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
quantity
and
quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
school and
the
commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
participate
in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
concluded
after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
extended
periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue,
and loss
of
reading speed and comprehension.



In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
that the
school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
Braille."
She found that the school board and the commission had failed to
assess
Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
on reading
assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
alleged
failure
to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
unconvinced by
the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
technology
as
reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
"as
pointed
out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
does not
equate
to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
comprehending text
by
passively listening, even if one is following along with the
reading."
The
order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on
them to
do,
which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
meaningful
educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
James-Beavers
ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
for
forty-five
minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
compensatory
instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
provided with
Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
programs or
tutoring.



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
Blind, said:
"Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
and blind
adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
the
years,
the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
that blind
children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
instruction
when
it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
comprehensive
examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
independent judge
has
confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
officials
across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
to giving
blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
the vast
majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
National
Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
like the
Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
establishment
in
obtaining the equal education to which their children are
entitled and
which
they deserve."



Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with
this
ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
prolonged battle
to
achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes
that
other
parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
I thank
the
National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
experts
who
came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
publicly
advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
instruction
for blind children."



The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
Krevor-Weisbaum
of
the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
Wesler of the
Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



For more information about the National Federation of the Blind,
please
visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
about
Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
visit
www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







###





About the National Federation of the Blind



With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
Blind is
the
largest and most influential membership organization of blind
people in
the
United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through
advocacy,
education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
independence
and
self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field
today and
the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened
the
National
Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
and
training
center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri May 11 02:51:45 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2012 21:51:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
 BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <7024BD80A7DA404CAD4DD6FE538847D2@OwnerPC>
References: <4fac78c8.0d62650a.56e0.4596@mx.google.com>
	<7024BD80A7DA404CAD4DD6FE538847D2@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOs2uE8htpN2z9UVt6rspqY=heFgF8Cw_q6a51j8_k7yOQ@mail.gmail.com>

I got marked off, in Philosophy, because I couldn't spell the
philosophers' names.
I only have audio.
I wonder, if you could get those textbooks on your Blio, and Braille display.
Hmmm!
I'd prefer Braille, over audio, any day!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/10/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Sophie,
> I'm confused too. Yes you could write by typing provided you know how to
> structure it; how to spell, where to punctuate your sentences, etc.
> As someone who learned to spell, punctuate words and sentences, learned the
>
> concept of a paragraph, and more from really reading in braille, I cannot
> see how you can grasp the english language without first seeing the
> language. If you can read print or read it before your vision declined which
>
> I think is Marc's case, yes you can remember the english structure and
> continue your literacy skills.
> But for someone young enough not to learn the structure and semantics of the
>
> english language, I fail to understand how you can learn it simply via
> audio. For instance, in audio I cannot see where one paragraph ends and
> another begins; this causes problems in college english classes because the
>
> professor says see paragraph 1, 2 etc on page 3 or whatever.
> When I only hear, I cannot see how to spell and therefore have to ask
> someone if I do not know its spelling already; I have been marked down in
> college papers for failing to spell technical terms like drug names in
> psychology papers. I did not
> ask a reader how to spell all of them. So these are just some challenges
> with audio learning.
> I think my literacy skills would be much weaker if I were not held to a high
>
> standard in elementary school and learned to spell and learned braille.
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sophie Trist
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:25 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
> BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> But I'm confused. Do you just use audio materials to read? For
> writing, I guess you just type on a computer--that's what I do
> too. I would be curious to know how someone who doesn't read
> braille or print can read.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:34:07 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
> ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> Hello Sophie,
>
> I haven't been able to read print for a good ten years. I'm not
> totally blind, no, but I'm near enough as makes no difference. So
> if not reading print and not reading Braille makes one
> illiterate, then I am one of those rare illiterates that spends
> most of his day reading and writing.
>
> I do think that, at least for a person who learned print, using a
> screen reader to listen to an email or a journal article is
> analogous to reading. I would be willing to lay down a small sum
> of money on the bet that performing an FMRI scan of my brain
> while i'm reading with a screen reader would show activity in the
> same parts of the brain that light up in sighted people when they
> read print. I don't know this for sure, just a hunch, especially
> since I often visualize letters and words as the screen reader
> echoes them. If anyone knows of research in this area, I'd be
> interested.
>
> Marc
> On 2012-05-10, at 1:06 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>
> Marc,
>
> I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't
> read or write,", she was speaking of the totally blind. From your
> e-mail, I gather that you still have a good bit of my vision
> left. I am completely blind, so there is no possible way that I
> could learn print. Okay, I can learn to sign my name, but that's
> about it. So for those of us who are totally blind or whose
> vision is not reliable enough for them to read print (sorry, but
> I think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we
> could not read or write.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced
> on them as a child. I resisted it with every argument an eight
> year old can muster. At several times throughout my primary and
> secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille even
> though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.
>
> Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to
> resist. There are lots of things that children resist learning
> for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages,
> musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute
> to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person.
> Braille falls into this category for me. Knowing it better would
> likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in
> french, particularly in Canada.
>
> Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with
> statements like this one from Chris:
>
> "Without Braille, we can't read or write."
>
> And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others
> making the same point in this thread. If Chris's statement is
> true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad,
> masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is
> illiterate. Without being too immodest, I think I write better
> than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an
> illiterate person.
>
> Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want
> that for their children should receive the instruction they
> desire. Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille if
> they so desire. What I think is worth pointing out is that
> Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and
> write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be successful,
> and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent
> learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other
> skills.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Marc
> On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>
> A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was
> actually
> having a similar conversation with my school librarian today,
> who asked me
> whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of
> audio
> technology. I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that
> happening, I
> wouldn't want it. Why do I not see Braille going away? Because
> there are
> enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent
> that from
> happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary
> source of
> reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in
> audio format,
> although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes,
> isn't true
> literacy. Braille is our form of literacy. Without Braille, we
> can't read or
> write. This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or
> keep up with
> our sighted peers. So, I think we definitely still need Braille
> because it
> is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should
> get rid of
> print too!
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
> Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to
> resolve.
> What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children,
> these battles
> aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first
> place. Parents
> capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child
> doesn't need
> Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy
> or legal
> resources to stick it out.
> The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of
> the denial of
> Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
> entrusted to
> promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a
> few weeks
> ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her
> with Braille
> copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.
> Instead, the
> teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys
> representing
> the characters in the stories. I can understand using toys to
> substitute for
> the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the
> stories, why
> not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I
> might add that
> in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed,
> transcribing
> a book for preschoolers is not difficult. And even in this case
> with the
> Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's
> decision not to
> provide Braille. If even the folks who are charged to teach us
> literacy
> don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified
> teacher of
> blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to
> hold their
> students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of
> that
> certificate.
> I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful
> precedent to bring
> about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille
> today and
> in the future.
> Arielle
>
> On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> How old is the child?
> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
> Any word on how old he is?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I agree, how  sad.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loren
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
> Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this
> decision.
> Would
> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
> Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great
> thing for
> your child.
>
> Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> New
> Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
> To: Undisclosed recipients:
> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
> Ruling on
> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
> CONTACT:
>
> Chris Danielsen
>
> Director of Public Relations
>
> National Federation of the Blind
>
> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
> Braille
> Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
> Instruction
>
>
>
>
> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
> administrative
> and
> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
> Board of
> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
> number:
> 2011
> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their
> eleven-year-old son
> Henry
> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
> reading
> and
> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
> the
> assistance
> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>
> (NFB),
> comes
> on the heels of
>
>
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
> Duncan%20re
> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging
> the
> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
> children who
> need
> Braille instruction receive it.
>
>
>
> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
> their son,
> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
> albinism and
> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
> enlarged
> print
> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
> sustained periods
> of
> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
> officials that
> their
> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
> reading,
> the
> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
> the Blind
> and
> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
> print
> reader,
> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
> room for
> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
> process
> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
> Improvement Act
> of
> 2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
> struggle with
> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
> unable to
> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
> instruction.
> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
> quantity
> and
> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
> school and
> the
> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
> participate
> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
> concluded
> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
> extended
> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue,
> and loss
> of
> reading speed and comprehension.
>
>
>
> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
> that the
> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
> Braille."
> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to
> assess
> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
> on reading
> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
> alleged
> failure
> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
> unconvinced by
> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
> technology
> as
> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
> "as
> pointed
> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
> does not
> equate
> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
> comprehending text
> by
> passively listening, even if one is following along with the
> reading."
> The
> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on
> them to
> do,
> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
> meaningful
> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
> James-Beavers
> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
> for
> forty-five
> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
> compensatory
> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
> provided with
> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
> programs or
> tutoring.
>
>
>
> Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
> Blind, said:
> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
> and blind
> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
> the
> years,
> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
> that blind
> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
> instruction
> when
> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
> comprehensive
> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
> independent judge
> has
> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
> officials
> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
> to giving
> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
> the vast
> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
> National
> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
> like the
> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
> establishment
> in
> obtaining the equal education to which their children are
> entitled and
> which
> they deserve."
>
>
>
> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with
> this
> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
> prolonged battle
> to
> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes
> that
> other
> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
> I thank
> the
> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
> experts
> who
> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
> publicly
> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
> instruction
> for blind children."
>
>
>
> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
> Krevor-Weisbaum
> of
> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
> Wesler of the
> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>
>
>
> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind,
> please
> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
> about
> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
> visit
> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ###
>
>
>
>
>
> About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
> Blind is
> the
> largest and most influential membership organization of blind
> people in
> the
> United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through
> advocacy,
> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
> independence
> and
> self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field
> today and
> the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened
> the
> National
> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
> and
> training
> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From bpollpeter at hotmail.com  Fri May 11 08:16:47 2012
From: bpollpeter at hotmail.com (Bridgit Pollpeter)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 03:16:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Please read my Live Well blog
In-Reply-To: <mailman.21.1336669213.21356.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP2493BD8FC0623E57EDE53BCC4170@phx.gbl>

Hello,

Please read my latest blog at:

http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/2012/05/10/rearranging-for-baby-blind/

FYI, there are some editing issues I wish to address such as paragraph
blocking as I did not write them this way or intend  for them to be
edited so. Not sure why some of these basic editing issues exist here,
but they are not of my work! Enjoy  nonetheless.

Sincerely,
Bridgit Kuenning-Pollpeter
Read my blog at:
http://blogs.livewellnebraska.com/author/bpollpeter/
 
"History is not what happened; history is what was written down."
The Expected One- Kathleen McGowan



From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Fri May 11 11:21:12 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 06:21:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of theBlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling
	on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
Message-ID: <4facf651.0366650a.79c0.308f@mx.google.com>

I agree. I love audio, but I also learn better by reading things. 
Right now, I'm typing on a braillenote apex, and I can't imagine 
not having the braille display to check my spelling and 
punctuation.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 22:46:57 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of 
theBlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind 
Child

Sophie,
I'm confused too. Yes you could write by typing provided you know 
how to
structure it; how to spell, where to punctuate your sentences, 
etc.
As someone who learned to spell, punctuate words and sentences, 
learned the
concept of a paragraph, and more from really reading in braille, 
I cannot
see how you can grasp the english language without first seeing 
the
language. If you can read print or read it before your vision 
declined which
I think is Marc's case, yes you can remember the english 
structure and
continue your literacy skills.
But for someone young enough not to learn the structure and 
semantics of the
english language, I fail to understand how you can learn it 
simply via
audio. For instance, in audio I cannot see where one paragraph 
ends and
another begins; this causes problems in college english classes 
because the
professor says see paragraph 1, 2 etc on page 3 or whatever.
When I only hear, I cannot see how to spell and therefore have to 
ask
someone if I do not know its spelling already; I have been marked 
down in
college papers for failing to spell technical terms like drug 
names in
psychology papers. I did not
ask a reader how to spell all of them. So these are just some 
challenges
with audio learning.
I think my literacy skills would be much weaker if I were not 
held to a high
standard in elementary school and learned to spell and learned 
braille.

Ashley
-----Original Message-----
From: Sophie Trist
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:25 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind 
Child

But I'm confused. Do you just use audio materials to read? For
writing, I guess you just type on a computer--that's what I do
too. I would be curious to know how someone who doesn't read
braille or print can read.

----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:34:07 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Hello Sophie,

I haven't been able to read print for a good ten years. I'm not
totally blind, no, but I'm near enough as makes no difference. So
if not reading print and not reading Braille makes one
illiterate, then I am one of those rare illiterates that spends
most of his day reading and writing.

I do think that, at least for a person who learned print, using a
screen reader to listen to an email or a journal article is
analogous to reading. I would be willing to lay down a small sum
of money on the bet that performing an FMRI scan of my brain
while i'm reading with a screen reader would show activity in the
same parts of the brain that light up in sighted people when they
read print. I don't know this for sure, just a hunch, especially
since I often visualize letters and words as the screen reader
echoes them. If anyone knows of research in this area, I'd be
interested.

Marc
On 2012-05-10, at 1:06 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:

Marc,

I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't
read or write,", she was speaking of the totally blind. From your
e-mail, I gather that you still have a good bit of my vision
left. I am completely blind, so there is no possible way that I
could learn print. Okay, I can learn to sign my name, but that's
about it. So for those of us who are totally blind or whose
vision is not reliable enough for them to read print (sorry, but
I think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we
could not read or write.

----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced
on them as a child. I resisted it with every argument an eight
year old can muster. At several times throughout my primary and
secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille even
though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to
resist. There are lots of things that children resist learning
for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages,
musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute
to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person.
Braille falls into this category for me. Knowing it better would
likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in
french, particularly in Canada.

Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with
statements like this one from Chris:

"Without Braille, we can't read or write."

And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others
making the same point in this thread. If Chris's statement is
true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad,
masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is
illiterate. Without being too immodest, I think I write better
than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an
illiterate person.

Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want
that for their children should receive the instruction they
desire. Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille if
they so desire. What I think is worth pointing out is that
Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and
write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be successful,
and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent
learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other
skills.

Cheers,

Marc
On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was
actually
having a similar conversation with my school librarian today,
who asked me
whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of
audio
technology. I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that
happening, I
wouldn't want it. Why do I not see Braille going away? Because
there are
enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent
that from
happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary
source of
reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in
audio format,
although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes,
isn't true
literacy. Braille is our form of literacy. Without Braille, we
can't read or
write. This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or
keep up with
our sighted peers. So, I think we definitely still need Braille
because it
is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should
get rid of
print too!

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Arielle Silverman
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to
resolve.
What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children,
these battles
aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first
place. Parents
capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child
doesn't need
Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy
or legal
resources to stick it out.
The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of
the denial of
Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
entrusted to
promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a
few weeks
ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her
with Braille
copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.
Instead, the
teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys
representing
the characters in the stories. I can understand using toys to
substitute for
the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the
stories, why
not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I
might add that
in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed,
transcribing
a book for preschoolers is not difficult. And even in this case
with the
Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's
decision not to
provide Braille. If even the folks who are charged to teach us
literacy
don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified
teacher of
blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to
hold their
students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of
that
certificate.
I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful
precedent to bring
about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille
today and
in the future.
Arielle

On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
How old is the child?
I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
Any word on how old he is?
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
I agree, how  sad.

-----Original Message-----
From: Loren
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this
decision.
Would
anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great
thing for
your child.

Loren Wakefield



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
New
Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
To: Undisclosed recipients:
Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
Ruling on
Braille Instruction for Blind Child



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

<mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
Braille
Instruction for Blind Child


After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
Instruction




Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
administrative
and
legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
Board of
Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
number:
2011
17218) from an administrative law judge that their
eleven-year-old son
Henry
"Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
reading
and
writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
the
assistance
of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/
(NFB),
comes
on the heels of


<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
Duncan%20re
%20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging
the
Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
children who
need
Braille instruction receive it.



Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
their son,
Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
albinism and
nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
enlarged
print
for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
sustained periods
of
time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
officials that
their
son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
reading,
the
school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
the Blind
and
Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
print
reader,
notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
room for
language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
process
provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
Improvement Act
of
2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
struggle with
his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
unable to
convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
instruction.
She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
quantity
and
quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
school and
the
commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
participate
in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
concluded
after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
extended
periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue,
and loss
of
reading speed and comprehension.



In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
that the
school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
Braille."
She found that the school board and the commission had failed to
assess
Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
on reading
assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
alleged
failure
to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
unconvinced by
the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
technology
as
reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
"as
pointed
out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
does not
equate
to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
comprehending text
by
passively listening, even if one is following along with the
reading."
The
order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on
them to
do,
which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
meaningful
educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
James-Beavers
ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
for
forty-five
minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
compensatory
instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
provided with
Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
programs or
tutoring.



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
Blind, said:
"Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
and blind
adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
the
years,
the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
that blind
children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
instruction
when
it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
comprehensive
examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
independent judge
has
confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
officials
across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
to giving
blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
the vast
majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
National
Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
like the
Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
establishment
in
obtaining the equal education to which their children are
entitled and
which
they deserve."



Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with
this
ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
prolonged battle
to
achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes
that
other
parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
I thank
the
National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
experts
who
came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
publicly
advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
instruction
for blind children."



The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
Krevor-Weisbaum
of
the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
Wesler of the
Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



For more information about the National Federation of the Blind,
please
visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
about
Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
visit
www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







###





About the National Federation of the Blind



With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
Blind is
the
largest and most influential membership organization of blind
people in
the
United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through
advocacy,
education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
independence
and
self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field
today and
the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened
the
National
Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
and
training
center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



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From isaiah5719 at mchsi.com  Fri May 11 13:39:06 2012
From: isaiah5719 at mchsi.com (Loren)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 08:39:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of
	the	BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for
	Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <7024BD80A7DA404CAD4DD6FE538847D2@OwnerPC>
References: <4fac78c8.0d62650a.56e0.4596@mx.google.com>
	<7024BD80A7DA404CAD4DD6FE538847D2@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <007e01cd2f7b$70079380$5016ba80$@mchsi.com>

I use a combination of braille and audio.  It does help me with my spelling
and structure as well.  I have a slight hearing loss, and therefore, do not
hear all sounds as clearly as I should.  So seeing some terms and words in
braille, helps me quite a bit.  My wife uses braille quite extensively s
well.  She has always said she can tell almost 100 percent of the time which
blind people do or do not use braille.  

Loren 



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 9:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Sophie,
I'm confused too. Yes you could write by typing provided you know how to
structure it; how to spell, where to punctuate your sentences, etc.
As someone who learned to spell, punctuate words and sentences, learned the
concept of a paragraph, and more from really reading in braille, I cannot
see how you can grasp the english language without first seeing the
language. If you can read print or read it before your vision declined which
I think is Marc's case, yes you can remember the english structure and
continue your literacy skills.
But for someone young enough not to learn the structure and semantics of the
english language, I fail to understand how you can learn it simply via
audio. For instance, in audio I cannot see where one paragraph ends and
another begins; this causes problems in college english classes because the
professor says see paragraph 1, 2 etc on page 3 or whatever.
When I only hear, I cannot see how to spell and therefore have to ask
someone if I do not know its spelling already; I have been marked down in
college papers for failing to spell technical terms like drug names in
psychology papers. I did not ask a reader how to spell all of them. So these
are just some challenges with audio learning.
I think my literacy skills would be much weaker if I were not held to a high
standard in elementary school and learned to spell and learned braille.

Ashley
-----Original Message-----
From: Sophie Trist
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:25 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

But I'm confused. Do you just use audio materials to read? For writing, I
guess you just type on a computer--that's what I do too. I would be curious
to know how someone who doesn't read braille or print can read.

----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:34:07 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Hello Sophie,

I haven't been able to read print for a good ten years. I'm not totally
blind, no, but I'm near enough as makes no difference. So if not reading
print and not reading Braille makes one illiterate, then I am one of those
rare illiterates that spends most of his day reading and writing.

I do think that, at least for a person who learned print, using a screen
reader to listen to an email or a journal article is analogous to reading. I
would be willing to lay down a small sum of money on the bet that performing
an FMRI scan of my brain while i'm reading with a screen reader would show
activity in the same parts of the brain that light up in sighted people when
they read print. I don't know this for sure, just a hunch, especially since
I often visualize letters and words as the screen reader echoes them. If
anyone knows of research in this area, I'd be interested.

Marc
On 2012-05-10, at 1:06 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:

Marc,

I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't read or
write,", she was speaking of the totally blind. From your e-mail, I gather
that you still have a good bit of my vision left. I am completely blind, so
there is no possible way that I could learn print. Okay, I can learn to sign
my name, but that's about it. So for those of us who are totally blind or
whose vision is not reliable enough for them to read print (sorry, but I
think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we could not read or
write.

----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced on them as a
child. I resisted it with every argument an eight year old can muster. At
several times throughout my primary and secondary education, I was made to
learn and relearn Braille even though I didn't use it then and have rarely
used it since.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to resist. There
are lots of things that children resist learning for one reason or another
(e.g.,second and third languages, musical instruments, dance), and all of
these skills contribute to the production of a more well-rounded and
talented person.
Braille falls into this category for me. Knowing it better would likely help
me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in french, particularly in
Canada.

Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with statements
like this one from Chris:

"Without Braille, we can't read or write."

And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others making the same
point in this thread. If Chris's statement is true, then this email and
every essay I wrote in my undergrad, masters, and PhD programs were written
by someone who is illiterate. Without being too immodest, I think I write
better than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an
illiterate person.

Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want that for
their children should receive the instruction they desire. Adults too should
receive the support to learn Braille if they so desire. What I think is
worth pointing out is that Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be
able to read and write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be
successful, and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent
learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other skills.

Cheers,

Marc
On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was actually
having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, who asked me
whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of audio
technology. I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that happening, I
wouldn't want it. Why do I not see Braille going away? Because there are
enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent that from
happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary source of
reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in audio format,
although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes, isn't true
literacy. Braille is our form of literacy. Without Braille, we can't read or
write. This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or keep up with
our sighted peers. So, I think we definitely still need Braille because it
is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should get rid of
print too!

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to resolve.
What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, these battles
aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first place. Parents
capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child doesn't need
Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy or legal
resources to stick it out.
The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the denial of
Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people entrusted to
promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a few weeks
ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her with Braille
copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.
Instead, the
teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys representing
the characters in the stories. I can understand using toys to substitute for
the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the stories, why
not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I might add that
in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed, transcribing
a book for preschoolers is not difficult. And even in this case with the
Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's decision not to
provide Braille. If even the folks who are charged to teach us literacy
don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified teacher of
blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to hold their
students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of that
certificate.
I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to bring
about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille today and
in the future.
Arielle

On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
How old is the child?
I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
Any word on how old he is?
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
I agree, how  sad.

-----Original Message-----
From: Loren
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
Would
anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for
your child.

Loren Wakefield



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students mailing
list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
To: Undisclosed recipients:
Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
Braille Instruction for Blind Child



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

<mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
Instruction for Blind Child


After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction




Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative and
legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
number:
2011
17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son Henry
"Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading and
writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the assistance
of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/> (NFB), comes
on the heels of


<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
Duncan%20re
%20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging the
Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who need
Braille instruction receive it.



Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged print
for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods of
time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that their
son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading, the
school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind and
Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print reader,
notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act of
2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille instruction.
She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity and
quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and the
commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should participate
in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB concluded
after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss of
reading speed and comprehension.



In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged failure
to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology as
reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as pointed
out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not equate
to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text by
passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
The
order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to do,
which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
meaningful
educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge James-Beavers
ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for forty-five
minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
tutoring.



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
"Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the years,
the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction when
it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge has
confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment in
obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and which
they deserve."



Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle to
achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that other
parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
I thank
the
National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts who
came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille instruction
for blind children."



The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum of
the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
Wesler of the
Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







###





About the National Federation of the Blind



With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is the
largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in the
United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence and
self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National
Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training
center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



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From sjhhirst at gmail.com  Fri May 11 15:29:26 2012
From: sjhhirst at gmail.com (Stephanie H. DeLuca)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 10:29:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone vs. Android
Message-ID: <CAJojENS8z51BfF0P6UHFkOhb7hQTu4=7K6P3bDoJT0kKrzv_JQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone, I'm visually impaired (acuity is about 20/400), but I'm
wanting to learn to use more accessibility tools than I have been over the
years, with the end goal of preventing eye strain.  Which smartphone would
you recommend in terms of accessibility?  Which one has better apps?  More
features? I think a couple of years ago, it was iPhone hands down, but I've
heard that Android has made some significant progress lately.  Thanks!

Stephanie

In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
    ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854

From jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com  Fri May 11 18:35:55 2012
From: jorge.paez1994 at gmail.com (Jorge Paez)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 14:35:55 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] iPhone vs. Android
In-Reply-To: <CAJojENS8z51BfF0P6UHFkOhb7hQTu4=7K6P3bDoJT0kKrzv_JQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJojENS8z51BfF0P6UHFkOhb7hQTu4=7K6P3bDoJT0kKrzv_JQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <667EE02E-F25D-43D6-8D29-2CA25BBBAC60@gmail.com>

Hi Stephanie:
The issue with Android as I understand it,
is that right now the best solution is Mobile Access, which has its own suite of apps plus a screenreader.
It works,
but its its own suite and isolated from Android OS itself.
If you want flawless integration with the OS, IOS is the answer.

Jorge



On May 11, 2012, at 11:29 AM, Stephanie H. DeLuca wrote:

> Hi everyone, I'm visually impaired (acuity is about 20/400), but I'm
> wanting to learn to use more accessibility tools than I have been over the
> years, with the end goal of preventing eye strain.  Which smartphone would
> you recommend in terms of accessibility?  Which one has better apps?  More
> features? I think a couple of years ago, it was iPhone hands down, but I've
> heard that Android has made some significant progress lately.  Thanks!
> 
> Stephanie
> 
> In the field of observation, chance favors only the prepared mind.
>    ~Louis Pasteur, lecture 1854
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Fri May 11 20:26:55 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 15:26:55 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation ofthe	BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling
	on Braille Instruction forBlind Child
Message-ID: <4fad7638.106a650a.6f3e.ffff80ac@mx.google.com>

I use mostly braille for school and mostly audio that I read for 
pleasure. In my opinion when you have a school book available in 
both braille and audio, it is a hands-down better idea to get the 
braille, because of the technical terms the material might 
contain. Audio is a good resource (much of the time it is the 
only resource), but since it relies on technology, it is not 
quite as reliable as braille.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Loren" <isaiah5719 at mchsi.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Fri, 11 May 2012 08:39:06 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation ofthe	
BlindApplaudsNe
wJerseyRuling 
on Braille 
Instruction 
forBlind Child

I use a combination of braille and audio.  It does help me with 
my spelling
and structure as well.  I have a slight hearing loss, and 
therefore, do not
hear all sounds as clearly as I should.  So seeing some terms and 
words in
braille, helps me quite a bit.  My wife uses braille quite 
extensively s
well.  She has always said she can tell almost 100 percent of the 
time which
blind people do or do not use braille.

Loren



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 9:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind 
Child

Sophie,
I'm confused too. Yes you could write by typing provided you know 
how to
structure it; how to spell, where to punctuate your sentences, 
etc.
As someone who learned to spell, punctuate words and sentences, 
learned the
concept of a paragraph, and more from really reading in braille, 
I cannot
see how you can grasp the english language without first seeing 
the
language. If you can read print or read it before your vision 
declined which
I think is Marc's case, yes you can remember the english 
structure and
continue your literacy skills.
But for someone young enough not to learn the structure and 
semantics of the
english language, I fail to understand how you can learn it 
simply via
audio. For instance, in audio I cannot see where one paragraph 
ends and
another begins; this causes problems in college english classes 
because the
professor says see paragraph 1, 2 etc on page 3 or whatever.
When I only hear, I cannot see how to spell and therefore have to 
ask
someone if I do not know its spelling already; I have been marked 
down in
college papers for failing to spell technical terms like drug 
names in
psychology papers. I did not ask a reader how to spell all of 
them. So these
are just some challenges with audio learning.
I think my literacy skills would be much weaker if I were not 
held to a high
standard in elementary school and learned to spell and learned 
braille.

Ashley
-----Original Message-----
From: Sophie Trist
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:25 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind 
Child

But I'm confused. Do you just use audio materials to read? For 
writing, I
guess you just type on a computer--that's what I do too. I would 
be curious
to know how someone who doesn't read braille or print can read.

----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:34:07 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Hello Sophie,

I haven't been able to read print for a good ten years. I'm not 
totally
blind, no, but I'm near enough as makes no difference. So if not 
reading
print and not reading Braille makes one illiterate, then I am one 
of those
rare illiterates that spends most of his day reading and writing.

I do think that, at least for a person who learned print, using a 
screen
reader to listen to an email or a journal article is analogous to 
reading. I
would be willing to lay down a small sum of money on the bet that 
performing
an FMRI scan of my brain while i'm reading with a screen reader 
would show
activity in the same parts of the brain that light up in sighted 
people when
they read print. I don't know this for sure, just a hunch, 
especially since
I often visualize letters and words as the screen reader echoes 
them. If
anyone knows of research in this area, I'd be interested.

Marc
On 2012-05-10, at 1:06 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:

Marc,

I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't 
read or
write,", she was speaking of the totally blind. From your e-mail, 
I gather
that you still have a good bit of my vision left. I am completely 
blind, so
there is no possible way that I could learn print. Okay, I can 
learn to sign
my name, but that's about it. So for those of us who are totally 
blind or
whose vision is not reliable enough for them to read print 
(sorry, but I
think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we could 
not read or
write.

----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced 
on them as a
child. I resisted it with every argument an eight year old can 
muster. At
several times throughout my primary and secondary education, I 
was made to
learn and relearn Braille even though I didn't use it then and 
have rarely
used it since.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to 
resist. There
are lots of things that children resist learning for one reason 
or another
(e.g.,second and third languages, musical instruments, dance), 
and all of
these skills contribute to the production of a more well-rounded 
and
talented person.
Braille falls into this category for me. Knowing it better would 
likely help
me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in french, 
particularly in
Canada.

Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with 
statements
like this one from Chris:

"Without Braille, we can't read or write."

And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others 
making the same
point in this thread. If Chris's statement is true, then this 
email and
every essay I wrote in my undergrad, masters, and PhD programs 
were written
by someone who is illiterate. Without being too immodest, I think 
I write
better than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for 
an
illiterate person.

Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want 
that for
their children should receive the instruction they desire. Adults 
too should
receive the support to learn Braille if they so desire. What I 
think is
worth pointing out is that Braille isn't necessary for blind 
people to be
able to read and write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people 
to be
successful, and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of 
hours spent
learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other 
skills.

Cheers,

Marc
On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was 
actually
having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, who 
asked me
whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of 
audio
technology. I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that 
happening, I
wouldn't want it. Why do I not see Braille going away? Because 
there are
enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent 
that from
happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary 
source of
reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in audio 
format,
although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes, 
isn't true
literacy. Braille is our form of literacy. Without Braille, we 
can't read or
write. This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or 
keep up with
our sighted peers. So, I think we definitely still need Braille 
because it
is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should 
get rid of
print too!

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Arielle Silverman
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to 
resolve.
What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, these 
battles
aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first 
place. Parents
capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child 
doesn't need
Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy or 
legal
resources to stick it out.
The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of 
the denial of
Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people 
entrusted to
promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a 
few weeks
ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her with 
Braille
copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.
Instead, the
teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys 
representing
the characters in the stories. I can understand using toys to 
substitute for
the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the 
stories, why
not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I 
might add that
in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed, 
transcribing
a book for preschoolers is not difficult. And even in this case 
with the
Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's 
decision not to
provide Braille. If even the folks who are charged to teach us 
literacy
don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified 
teacher of
blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to 
hold their
students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of 
that
certificate.
I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful 
precedent to bring
about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille 
today and
in the future.
Arielle

On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
How old is the child?
I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
Any word on how old he is?
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
I agree, how  sad.

-----Original Message-----
From: Loren
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
Applauds
NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this 
decision.
Would
anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great 
thing for
your child.

Loren Wakefield



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students 
mailing
list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
New Jersey
Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
To: Undisclosed recipients:
Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey 
Ruling on
Braille Instruction for Blind Child



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



CONTACT:

Chris Danielsen

Director of Public Relations

National Federation of the Blind

(410) 659-9314, extension 2330

(410) 262-1281 (Cell)

<mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on 
Braille
Instruction for Blind Child


After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille 
Instruction




Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year 
administrative and
legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport 
Board of
Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
number:
2011
17218) from an administrative law judge that their 
eleven-year-old son Henry
"Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the 
reading and
writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the 
assistance
of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/> 
(NFB), comes
on the heels of


<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
Duncan%20re
%20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S. Senators urging 
the
Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind 
children who need
Braille instruction receive it.



Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of 
their son,
Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to 
albinism and
nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read 
enlarged print
for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained 
periods of
time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials 
that their
son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty 
reading, the
school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for 
the Blind and
Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient 
print reader,
notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource 
room for
language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due 
process
provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education 
Improvement Act of
2004, Mrs. Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely 
struggle with
his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was 
unable to
convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille 
instruction.
She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same 
quantity and
quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the 
school and the
commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should 
participate
in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB 
concluded
after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for 
extended
periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, 
and loss of
reading speed and comprehension.



In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found 
that the
school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against 
Braille."
She found that the school board and the commission had failed to 
assess
Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on 
reading
assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's 
alleged failure
to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was 
unconvinced by
the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio 
technology as
reading demands increased through his school years, noting that 
"as pointed
out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does 
not equate
to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of 
comprehending text by
passively listening, even if one is following along with the 
reading."
The
order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on 
them to do,
which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
meaningful
educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge 
James-Beavers
ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for 
forty-five
minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide 
compensatory
instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided 
with
Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer 
programs or
tutoring.



Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the 
Blind, said:
"Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children 
and blind
adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over 
the years,
the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that 
blind
children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille 
instruction when
it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and 
comprehensive
examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent 
judge has
confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency 
officials
across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to 
giving
blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for 
the vast
majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The 
National
Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like 
the
Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational 
establishment in
obtaining the equal education to which their children are 
entitled and which
they deserve."



Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with 
this
ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a 
prolonged battle to
achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes 
that other
parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
I thank
the
National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and 
experts who
came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and 
publicly
advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille 
instruction
for blind children."



The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon 
Krevor-Weisbaum of
the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
Wesler of the
Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, 
please
visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information 
about
Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







###





About the National Federation of the Blind



With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the 
Blind is the
largest and most influential membership organization of blind 
people in the
United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives through 
advocacy,
education, research, technology, and programs encouraging 
independence and
self-confidence. It is the leading force in the blindness field 
today and
the voice of the nation's blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened 
the National
Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research 
and training
center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



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From anjelinac26 at gmail.com  Fri May 11 21:09:01 2012
From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 17:09:01 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Congratulations scholarship winners!
Message-ID: <182B821C2CDC4925A430D2D637ABBD7D@AnjelinaPC>

http://nfb.org/national-federation-blind-announces-2012-scholarship-program-winners
Anjelina

From wvucountrygirl729 at gmail.com  Fri May 11 22:11:12 2012
From: wvucountrygirl729 at gmail.com (keri)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 18:11:12 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] braille book project update
Message-ID: <802CD5B7C93F4AD0A271FBD9AB435447@klhurstl1>

the braille book project I've been working on now has a fb page www.facebook.com/braillebookprojectprincetonwv

keri

"Sometimes your nearness takes my breath away; and all the things I want to say can find no voice. Then, in silence, I can only hope my eyes will speak my heart."
--Robert Sexton

"For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it."
--Ivan Panin

Find that guy that will pick up every piece of your shattered heart & put it back together; Replacing it with a piece of his.

From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri May 11 22:17:32 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 17:17:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] braille book project update
In-Reply-To: <802CD5B7C93F4AD0A271FBD9AB435447@klhurstl1>
References: <802CD5B7C93F4AD0A271FBD9AB435447@klhurstl1>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOsfRXoBc75ZGur9RJcDBOJgAc3kRc6pOz-RVikVOcWqng@mail.gmail.com>

Keri:
Please E-mail me off list, about this project.
I have problems with Facebook.
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/11/12, keri <wvucountrygirl729 at gmail.com> wrote:
> the braille book project I've been working on now has a fb page
> www.facebook.com/braillebookprojectprincetonwv
>
> keri
>
> "Sometimes your nearness takes my breath away; and all the things I want to
> say can find no voice. Then, in silence, I can only hope my eyes will speak
> my heart."
> --Robert Sexton
>
> "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there
> is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to
> receive it."
> --Ivan Panin
>
> Find that guy that will pick up every piece of your shattered heart & put it
> back together; Replacing it with a piece of his.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From wvucountrygirl729 at gmail.com  Fri May 11 22:28:08 2012
From: wvucountrygirl729 at gmail.com (keri)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 18:28:08 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] braille book project update
References: <802CD5B7C93F4AD0A271FBD9AB435447@klhurstl1>
	<CAO83KOsfRXoBc75ZGur9RJcDBOJgAc3kRc6pOz-RVikVOcWqng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EB19FAA1E03544B5A95577F014325681@klhurstl1>

you can search for it on the mobile site then.
keri

"Sometimes your nearness takes my breath away; and all the things I want to 
say can find no voice. Then, in silence, I can only hope my eyes will speak 
my heart."
--Robert Sexton

"For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there 
is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to 
receive it."
--Ivan Panin

Find that guy that will pick up every piece of your shattered heart & put it 
back together; Replacing it with a piece of his.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 11, 2012 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] braille book project update


> Keri:
> Please E-mail me off list, about this project.
> I have problems with Facebook.
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/11/12, keri <wvucountrygirl729 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> the braille book project I've been working on now has a fb page
>> www.facebook.com/braillebookprojectprincetonwv
>>
>> keri
>>
>> "Sometimes your nearness takes my breath away; and all the things I want 
>> to
>> say can find no voice. Then, in silence, I can only hope my eyes will 
>> speak
>> my heart."
>> --Robert Sexton
>>
>> "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth 
>> there
>> is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere 
>> to
>> receive it."
>> --Ivan Panin
>>
>> Find that guy that will pick up every piece of your shattered heart & put 
>> it
>> back together; Replacing it with a piece of his.
>> _______________________________________________
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Fri May 11 22:59:33 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 17:59:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?
Message-ID: <4fad99fe.21a5ec0a.4468.ffffc1aa@mx.google.com>

Dear All,

I currently use a braillenote apex and an iPhone 4S running IOS 
5.1. I am debating the issue of whether I should get a Mac, and 
your input would be very helpufl in this decision, because I know 
a lot of y'all use a Mac with Voiceover. My main question is, 
what abilities does a Mac have that an iPhone and braillenote do 
not have?
Yours,
Sophie


From valandkayla at gmail.com  Fri May 11 23:09:18 2012
From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 18:09:18 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?
In-Reply-To: <4fad99fe.21a5ec0a.4468.ffffc1aa@mx.google.com>
References: <4fad99fe.21a5ec0a.4468.ffffc1aa@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <9D2B6640-A616-457A-99CB-F7143753446B@gmail.com>

depends on what you're after. my first thought was terminal, or an ssh client.
apart from that, a larger storage space, and it's faster.  
I guess if you lumped the bn and iPhone into one ball, you'd have almost the same features of the mac, but maybe i'm forgetting something.
oh, not sure if the bn can do ftp either.  
On May 11, 2012, at 5:59 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:

> Dear All,
> 
> I currently use a braillenote apex and an iPhone 4S running IOS 5.1. I am debating the issue of whether I should get a Mac, and your input would be very helpufl in this decision, because I know a lot of y'all use a Mac with Voiceover. My main question is, what abilities does a Mac have that an iPhone and braillenote do not have?
> Yours,
> Sophie
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat May 12 01:57:37 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2012 21:57:37 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] congratulations to all NFB scholarship winners!
Message-ID: <4fadc397.0728e00a.1c29.ffffbbde@mx.google.com>

Hi everyone,

I'd like to extend a big "congratulations" out to all of our NFB 
scholarship winners! While reading the press release which 
announced the winners, it was so fun reading a name and thinking, 
"I know him/her from the NABS list or the Blind Talk list!" So, 
to all of you who have been awarded NFB scholarships, 
congratulations to you!!! Winning a scholarship like this one is 
a great accomplishment, and one which you all should be very 
proud of.  Once again, a big congratulations from me to all of 
our scholarship winners!!!

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat May 12 22:22:47 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 18:22:47 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
	NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
Message-ID: <4faee2be.01dbe00a.1855.3ff1@mx.google.com>

Good points, Marc.  What I mean by "illiterate" is simply that 
you can't effectively and efficiently read written text 
independently.  Yes, you can use audio, but that technology might 
break...

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced 
on them as a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight 
year old can muster.  At several times throughout my primary and 
secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille even 
though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to 
resist.  There are lots of things that children resist learning 
for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages, 
musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute 
to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person.  
Braille falls into this category for me.  Knowing it better would 
likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in 
french, particularly in Canada.

Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with 
statements like this one from Chris:

 "Without Braille, we can't read or write."

And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others 
making the same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is 
true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad, 
masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is 
illiterate.  Without being too immodest, I think I write better 
than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an 
illiterate person.

Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want 
that for their children should receive the instruction they 
desire.  Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille 
if they so desire.  What I think is worth pointing out is that 
Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and 
write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be successful, 
and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent 
learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other 
skills.

Cheers,

Marc
On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

 A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was 
actually
 having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, 
who asked me
 whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of 
audio
 technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that 
happening, I
 wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? Because 
there are
 enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent 
that from
 happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary 
source of
 reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in 
audio format,
 although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes, 
isn't true
 literacy.  Braille is our form of literacy.  Without Braille, we 
can't read or
 write.  This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or 
keep up with
 our sighted peers.  So, I think we definitely still need Braille 
because it
 is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should 
get rid of
 print too!

 Chris

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
 Of Arielle Silverman
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to 
resolve.
 What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, 
these battles
 aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first 
place.  Parents
 capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child 
doesn't need
 Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy 
or legal
 resources to stick it out.
 The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of 
the denial of
 Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people 
entrusted to
 promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a 
few weeks
 ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her 
with Braille
 copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.  
Instead, the
 teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys 
representing
 the characters in the stories.  I can understand using toys to 
substitute for
 the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the 
stories, why
 not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I 
might add that
 in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed, 
transcribing
 a book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this case 
with the
 Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's 
decision not to
 provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to teach us 
literacy
 don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified 
teacher of
 blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to 
hold their
 students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of 
that
 certificate.
 I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful 
precedent to bring
 about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille 
today and
 in the future.
 Arielle

 On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
 How old is the child?
 I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
 Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
 Any word on how old he is?
 Thanks, Joshua

 On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
 I agree, how  sad.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Loren
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
 To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
 blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind 
Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this 
decision.
 Would
 anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
 Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great 
thing for
 your child.

 Loren Wakefield



 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
 Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
 To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
 mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
New
 Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





 From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
 To: Undisclosed recipients:
 Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey 
Ruling on
 Braille Instruction for Blind Child



 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



 CONTACT:

 Chris Danielsen

 Director of Public Relations

 National Federation of the Blind

 (410) 659-9314, extension 2330

 (410) 262-1281 (Cell)

 <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




 National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on 
Braille
 Instruction for Blind Child


 After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille 
Instruction




 Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year 
administrative
 and
 legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport 
Board of
 Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket 
number:
 2011
 17218) from an administrative law judge that their 
eleven-year-old son
 Henry
 "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the 
reading
 and
 writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with 
the
 assistance
 of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  
(NFB),
 comes
 on the heels of

 
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
Duncan%20re
 %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators 
urging the
 Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind 
children who
 need
 Braille instruction receive it.



 Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of 
their son,
 Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to 
albinism and
 nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read 
enlarged
 print
 for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for 
sustained periods
 of
 time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school 
officials that
 their
 son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty 
reading,
 the
 school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for 
the Blind
 and
 Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient 
print
 reader,
 notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource 
room for
 language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due 
process
 provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education 
Improvement Act
 of
 2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely 
struggle with
 his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was 
unable to
 convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
 instruction.
 She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same 
quantity
 and
 quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the 
school and
 the
 commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
 participate
 in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
 concluded
 after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for 
extended
 periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, 
and loss
 of
 reading speed and comprehension.



 In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found 
that the
 school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against 
Braille."
 She found that the school board and the commission had failed to 
assess
 Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead 
on reading
 assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's 
alleged
 failure
 to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was 
unconvinced by
 the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio 
technology
 as
 reading demands increased through his school years, noting that 
"as
 pointed
 out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening 
does not
 equate
 to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of 
comprehending text
 by
 passively listening, even if one is following along with the 
reading."
 The
 order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on 
them to
 do,
 which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.  
meaningful
 educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
 James-Beavers
 ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction 
for
 forty-five
 minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide 
compensatory
 instruction because of the three years that Hank was not 
provided with
 Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer 
programs or
 tutoring.



 Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the 
Blind, said:
 "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children 
and blind
 adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over 
the
 years,
 the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued 
that blind
 children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille 
instruction
 when
 it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and 
comprehensive
 examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an 
independent judge
 has
 confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency 
officials
 across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit 
to giving
 blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for 
the vast
 majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The 
National
 Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families 
like the
 Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational 
establishment
 in
 obtaining the equal education to which their children are 
entitled and
 which
 they deserve."



 Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with 
this
 ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a 
prolonged battle
 to
 achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes 
that
 other
 parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  
I thank
 the
 National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and 
experts
 who
 came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and 
publicly
 advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
 instruction
 for blind children."



 The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon 
Krevor-Weisbaum
 of
 the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.  
Wesler of the
 Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



 For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, 
please
 visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information 
about
 Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please 
visit
 www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







 ###





 About the National Federation of the Blind



 With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the 
Blind is
 the
 largest and most influential membership organization of blind 
people in
 the
 United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through 
advocacy,
 education, research, technology, and programs encouraging 
independence
 and
 self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness field 
today and
 the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened 
the
 National
 Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research 
and
 training
 center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat May 12 22:22:53 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 18:22:53 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
	ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
Message-ID: <4faee2c5.01dbe00a.1855.3ff7@mx.google.com>

Sophie,

I agree.  I took Marc's statement to mean that totally blind 
people could in fact read and write, just with audio technology 
(e.g.  text-to-speech software.) As I said in my previous email, 
my point was that we couldn't read or write independently (when I 
say "read," I mean reading
written text, as sighted people read print,) without Braille.  If  
a low-vision person has enough vision to read large print, of 
course, they could read the written word independently in that 
format.  But sometimes, even for low-vision people, reading large 
print becomes a tedious and difficult process, making it 
necessary for them to learn Braille in order for the process of 
reading and writing to be more efficient.

By the way, I'm a guy! :)

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:06:25 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind 
ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Marc,

I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't
read or write,", she was speaking of the totally blind.  From 
your
e-mail, I gather that you still have a good bit of my vision
left.  I am completely blind, so there is no possible way that I
could learn print.  Okay, I can learn to sign my name, but that's
about it.  So for those of us who are totally blind or whose
vision is not reliable enough for them to read print (sorry, but
I think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we
could not read or write.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced
on them as a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight
year old can muster.  At several times throughout my primary and
secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille even
though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to
resist.  There are lots of things that children resist learning
for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages,
musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute
to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person.
Braille falls into this category for me.  Knowing it better would
likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in
french, particularly in Canada.

Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with
statements like this one from Chris:

 "Without Braille, we can't read or write."

And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others
making the same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is
true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad,
masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is
illiterate.  Without being too immodest, I think I write better
than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an
illiterate person.

Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want
that for their children should receive the instruction they
desire.  Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille 
if
they so desire.  What I think is worth pointing out is that
Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and
write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be successful,
and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent
learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other
skills.

Cheers,

Marc
On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

 A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was
actually
 having a similar conversation with my school librarian today,
who asked me
 whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of
audio
 technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that
happening, I
 wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? Because
there are
 enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent
that from
 happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary
source of
 reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in
audio format,
 although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes,
isn't true
 literacy.  Braille is our form of literacy.  Without Braille, we
can't read or
 write.  This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or
keep up with
 our sighted peers.  So, I think we definitely still need Braille
because it
 is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should
get rid of
 print too!

 Chris

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
 Of Arielle Silverman
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to
resolve.
 What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children,
these battles
 aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first
place.  Parents
 capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child
doesn't need
 Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy
or legal
 resources to stick it out.
 The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of
the denial of
 Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
entrusted to
 promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a
few weeks
 ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her
with Braille
 copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.
Instead, the
 teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys
representing
 the characters in the stories.  I can understand using toys to
substitute for
 the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the
stories, why
 not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I
might add that
 in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed,
transcribing
 a book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this case
with the
 Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's
decision not to
 provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to teach us
literacy
 don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified
teacher of
 blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to
hold their
 students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of
that
 certificate.
 I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful
precedent to bring
 about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille
today and
 in the future.
 Arielle

 On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
 How old is the child?
 I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
 Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
 Any word on how old he is?
 Thanks, Joshua

 On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
 I agree, how  sad.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Loren
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
 To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
 blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this
decision.
 Would
 anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
 Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great
thing for
 your child.

 Loren Wakefield



 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
 Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
 To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
 mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
New
 Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





 From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
 To: Undisclosed recipients:
 Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
Ruling on
 Braille Instruction for Blind Child



 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



 CONTACT:

 Chris Danielsen

 Director of Public Relations

 National Federation of the Blind

 (410) 659-9314, extension 2330

 (410) 262-1281 (Cell)

 <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




 National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
Braille
 Instruction for Blind Child


 After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
Instruction




 Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
administrative
 and
 legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
Board of
 Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
number:
 2011
 17218) from an administrative law judge that their
eleven-year-old son
 Henry
 "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
reading
 and
 writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
the
 assistance
 of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/
(NFB),
 comes
 on the heels of


<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
Duncan%20re
 %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators 
urging
the
 Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
children who
 need
 Braille instruction receive it.



 Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
their son,
 Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
albinism and
 nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
enlarged
 print
 for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
sustained periods
 of
 time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
officials that
 their
 son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
reading,
 the
 school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
the Blind
 and
 Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
print
 reader,
 notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
room for
 language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
process
 provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
Improvement Act
 of
 2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
struggle with
 his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
unable to
 convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
 instruction.
 She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
quantity
 and
 quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
school and
 the
 commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
 participate
 in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
 concluded
 after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
extended
 periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue,
and loss
 of
 reading speed and comprehension.



 In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
that the
 school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
Braille."
 She found that the school board and the commission had failed to
assess
 Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
on reading
 assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
alleged
 failure
 to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
unconvinced by
 the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
technology
 as
 reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
"as
 pointed
 out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
does not
 equate
 to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
comprehending text
 by
 passively listening, even if one is following along with the
reading."
 The
 order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on
them to
 do,
 which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
meaningful
 educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
 James-Beavers
 ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
for
 forty-five
 minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
compensatory
 instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
provided with
 Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
programs or
 tutoring.



 Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
Blind, said:
 "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
and blind
 adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
the
 years,
 the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
that blind
 children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
instruction
 when
 it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
comprehensive
 examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
independent judge
 has
 confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
officials
 across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
to giving
 blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
the vast
 majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
National
 Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
like the
 Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
establishment
 in
 obtaining the equal education to which their children are
entitled and
 which
 they deserve."



 Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with
this
 ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
prolonged battle
 to
 achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes
that
 other
 parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
I thank
 the
 National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
experts
 who
 came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
publicly
 advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
 instruction
 for blind children."



 The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
Krevor-Weisbaum
 of
 the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
Wesler of the
 Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



 For more information about the National Federation of the Blind,
please
 visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
about
 Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
visit
 www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







 ###





 About the National Federation of the Blind



 With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
Blind is
 the
 largest and most influential membership organization of blind
people in
 the
 United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through
advocacy,
 education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
independence
 and
 self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness field
today and
 the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened
the
 National
 Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
and
 training
 center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sat May 12 22:34:24 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 17:34:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
 ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <4faee2c5.01dbe00a.1855.3ff7@mx.google.com>
References: <4faee2c5.01dbe00a.1855.3ff7@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOve65OYhUrDr_VGeXrr8XD19Rqd2GkNccMLq7Rmxg2KmQ@mail.gmail.com>

I had a good friend, who worked tirelessly with me, in making sure I
had my needs met, (EG,) Braille texts, Perkins Braillers, (whenever
mine needed maintenance,) etc.
He made this statement, at an IEP meeting, when they were trying to
force audio only education, on me.
"Without Braille, he will fail!"
That's an eloquent statement!
Without Braille, we're ultimately going to fail!
Thanks to Mr Ken Jewel, for that pearl of wisdom!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/12/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sophie,
>
> I agree.  I took Marc's statement to mean that totally blind
> people could in fact read and write, just with audio technology
> (e.g.  text-to-speech software.) As I said in my previous email,
> my point was that we couldn't read or write independently (when I
> say "read," I mean reading
> written text, as sighted people read print,) without Braille.  If
> a low-vision person has enough vision to read large print, of
> course, they could read the written word independently in that
> format.  But sometimes, even for low-vision people, reading large
> print becomes a tedious and difficult process, making it
> necessary for them to learn Braille in order for the process of
> reading and writing to be more efficient.
>
> By the way, I'm a guy! :)
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>
> Sent from my BrailleNote
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:06:25 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
> ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> Marc,
>
> I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't
> read or write,", she was speaking of the totally blind.  From
> your
> e-mail, I gather that you still have a good bit of my vision
> left.  I am completely blind, so there is no possible way that I
> could learn print.  Okay, I can learn to sign my name, but that's
> about it.  So for those of us who are totally blind or whose
> vision is not reliable enough for them to read print (sorry, but
> I think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we
> could not read or write.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced
> on them as a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight
> year old can muster.  At several times throughout my primary and
> secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille even
> though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.
>
> Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to
> resist.  There are lots of things that children resist learning
> for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages,
> musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute
> to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person.
> Braille falls into this category for me.  Knowing it better would
> likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in
> french, particularly in Canada.
>
> Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with
> statements like this one from Chris:
>
>  "Without Braille, we can't read or write."
>
> And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others
> making the same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is
> true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad,
> masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is
> illiterate.  Without being too immodest, I think I write better
> than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an
> illiterate person.
>
> Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want
> that for their children should receive the instruction they
> desire.  Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille
> if
> they so desire.  What I think is worth pointing out is that
> Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and
> write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be successful,
> and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent
> learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other
> skills.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Marc
> On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>
>  A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was
> actually
>  having a similar conversation with my school librarian today,
> who asked me
>  whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of
> audio
>  technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that
> happening, I
>  wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? Because
> there are
>  enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent
> that from
>  happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary
> source of
>  reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in
> audio format,
>  although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes,
> isn't true
>  literacy.  Braille is our form of literacy.  Without Braille, we
> can't read or
>  write.  This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or
> keep up with
>  our sighted peers.  So, I think we definitely still need Braille
> because it
>  is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should
> get rid of
>  print too!
>
>  Chris
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>  Of Arielle Silverman
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
> Applauds
>  NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>  It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to
> resolve.
>  What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children,
> these battles
>  aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first
> place.  Parents
>  capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child
> doesn't need
>  Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy
> or legal
>  resources to stick it out.
>  The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of
> the denial of
>  Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
> entrusted to
>  promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a
> few weeks
>  ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her
> with Braille
>  copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.
> Instead, the
>  teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys
> representing
>  the characters in the stories.  I can understand using toys to
> substitute for
>  the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the
> stories, why
>  not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I
> might add that
>  in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed,
> transcribing
>  a book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this case
> with the
>  Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's
> decision not to
>  provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to teach us
> literacy
>  don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified
> teacher of
>  blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to
> hold their
>  students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of
> that
>  certificate.
>  I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful
> precedent to bring
>  about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille
> today and
>  in the future.
>  Arielle
>
>  On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>  How old is the child?
>  I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
>  Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
>  Any word on how old he is?
>  Thanks, Joshua
>
>  On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>  I agree, how  sad.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Loren
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>  To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
> Applauds
>  NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>  It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this
> decision.
>  Would
>  anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
>  Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great
> thing for
>  your child.
>
>  Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>  Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>  To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
>  mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>  Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> New
>  Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>
>
>  From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>  To: Undisclosed recipients:
>  Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
> Ruling on
>  Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>  FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
>  CONTACT:
>
>  Chris Danielsen
>
>  Director of Public Relations
>
>  National Federation of the Blind
>
>  (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
>  (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
>  <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
>  National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
> Braille
>  Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>  After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
> Instruction
>
>
>
>
>  Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
> administrative
>  and
>  legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
> Board of
>  Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
> number:
>  2011
>  17218) from an administrative law judge that their
> eleven-year-old son
>  Henry
>  "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
> reading
>  and
>  writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
> the
>  assistance
>  of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/
> (NFB),
>  comes
>  on the heels of
>
>
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
> Duncan%20re
>  %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators
> urging
> the
>  Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
> children who
>  need
>  Braille instruction receive it.
>
>
>
>  Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
> their son,
>  Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
> albinism and
>  nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
> enlarged
>  print
>  for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
> sustained periods
>  of
>  time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
> officials that
>  their
>  son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
> reading,
>  the
>  school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
> the Blind
>  and
>  Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
> print
>  reader,
>  notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
> room for
>  language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
> process
>  provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
> Improvement Act
>  of
>  2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
> struggle with
>  his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
> unable to
>  convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>  instruction.
>  She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
> quantity
>  and
>  quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
> school and
>  the
>  commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>  participate
>  in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>  concluded
>  after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
> extended
>  periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue,
> and loss
>  of
>  reading speed and comprehension.
>
>
>
>  In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
> that the
>  school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
> Braille."
>  She found that the school board and the commission had failed to
> assess
>  Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
> on reading
>  assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
> alleged
>  failure
>  to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
> unconvinced by
>  the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
> technology
>  as
>  reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
> "as
>  pointed
>  out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
> does not
>  equate
>  to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
> comprehending text
>  by
>  passively listening, even if one is following along with the
> reading."
>  The
>  order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on
> them to
>  do,
>  which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
> meaningful
>  educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>  James-Beavers
>  ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
> for
>  forty-five
>  minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
> compensatory
>  instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
> provided with
>  Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
> programs or
>  tutoring.
>
>
>
>  Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
> Blind, said:
>  "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
> and blind
>  adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
> the
>  years,
>  the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
> that blind
>  children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
> instruction
>  when
>  it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
> comprehensive
>  examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
> independent judge
>  has
>  confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
> officials
>  across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
> to giving
>  blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
> the vast
>  majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
> National
>  Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
> like the
>  Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
> establishment
>  in
>  obtaining the equal education to which their children are
> entitled and
>  which
>  they deserve."
>
>
>
>  Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with
> this
>  ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
> prolonged battle
>  to
>  achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes
> that
>  other
>  parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
> I thank
>  the
>  National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
> experts
>  who
>  came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
> publicly
>  advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>  instruction
>  for blind children."
>
>
>
>  The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
> Krevor-Weisbaum
>  of
>  the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
> Wesler of the
>  Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>
>
>
>  For more information about the National Federation of the Blind,
> please
>  visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
> about
>  Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
> visit
>  www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ###
>
>
>
>
>
>  About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
>  With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
> Blind is
>  the
>  largest and most influential membership organization of blind
> people in
>  the
>  United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through
> advocacy,
>  education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
> independence
>  and
>  self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness field
> today and
>  the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened
> the
>  National
>  Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
> and
>  training
>  center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Sun May 13 01:16:44 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 20:16:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
	BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
Message-ID: <4faf0ba8.0d64650a.3aea.ffffe092@mx.google.com>

OMG, I'm so sorry, Chris. (Sophie smacks herself in the head with 
her cane.) That's the thing about e-mails. Please forgive me. :)

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 18:22:53 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the 
BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind 
Child

Sophie,

I agree.  I took Marc's statement to mean that totally blind
people could in fact read and write, just with audio technology
(e.g.  text-to-speech software.) As I said in my previous email,
my point was that we couldn't read or write independently (when I
say "read," I mean reading
written text, as sighted people read print,) without Braille.  If
a low-vision person has enough vision to read large print, of
course, they could read the written word independently in that
format.  But sometimes, even for low-vision people, reading large
print becomes a tedious and difficult process, making it
necessary for them to learn Braille in order for the process of
reading and writing to be more efficient.

By the way, I'm a guy! :)

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:06:25 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Marc,

I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't
read or write,", she was speaking of the totally blind.  From
your
e-mail, I gather that you still have a good bit of my vision
left.  I am completely blind, so there is no possible way that I
could learn print.  Okay, I can learn to sign my name, but that's
about it.  So for those of us who are totally blind or whose
vision is not reliable enough for them to read print (sorry, but
I think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we
could not read or write.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced
on them as a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight
year old can muster.  At several times throughout my primary and
secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille even
though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to
resist.  There are lots of things that children resist learning
for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages,
musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute
to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person.
Braille falls into this category for me.  Knowing it better would
likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in
french, particularly in Canada.

Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with
statements like this one from Chris:

 "Without Braille, we can't read or write."

And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others
making the same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is
true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad,
masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is
illiterate.  Without being too immodest, I think I write better
than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an
illiterate person.

Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want
that for their children should receive the instruction they
desire.  Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille
if
they so desire.  What I think is worth pointing out is that
Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and
write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be successful,
and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent
learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other
skills.

Cheers,

Marc
On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

 A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was
actually
 having a similar conversation with my school librarian today,
who asked me
 whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of
audio
 technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that
happening, I
 wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? Because
there are
 enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent
that from
 happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary
source of
 reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in
audio format,
 although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes,
isn't true
 literacy.  Braille is our form of literacy.  Without Braille, we
can't read or
 write.  This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or
keep up with
 our sighted peers.  So, I think we definitely still need Braille
because it
 is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should
get rid of
 print too!

 Chris

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
 Of Arielle Silverman
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to
resolve.
 What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children,
these battles
 aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first
place.  Parents
 capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child
doesn't need
 Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy
or legal
 resources to stick it out.
 The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of
the denial of
 Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
entrusted to
 promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a
few weeks
 ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her
with Braille
 copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.
Instead, the
 teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys
representing
 the characters in the stories.  I can understand using toys to
substitute for
 the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the
stories, why
 not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I
might add that
 in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed,
transcribing
 a book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this case
with the
 Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's
decision not to
 provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to teach us
literacy
 don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified
teacher of
 blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to
hold their
 students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of
that
 certificate.
 I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful
precedent to bring
 about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille
today and
 in the future.
 Arielle

 On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
 How old is the child?
 I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
 Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
 Any word on how old he is?
 Thanks, Joshua

 On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
 I agree, how  sad.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Loren
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
 To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
 blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
Applauds
 NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this
decision.
 Would
 anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
 Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great
thing for
 your child.

 Loren Wakefield



 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
 Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
 To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
 mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
 Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
New
 Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





 From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
 Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
 To: Undisclosed recipients:
 Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
Ruling on
 Braille Instruction for Blind Child



 FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



 CONTACT:

 Chris Danielsen

 Director of Public Relations

 National Federation of the Blind

 (410) 659-9314, extension 2330

 (410) 262-1281 (Cell)

 <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




 National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
Braille
 Instruction for Blind Child


 After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
Instruction




 Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
administrative
 and
 legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
Board of
 Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
number:
 2011
 17218) from an administrative law judge that their
eleven-year-old son
 Henry
 "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
reading
 and
 writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
the
 assistance
 of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/
(NFB),
 comes
 on the heels of


<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
Duncan%20re
 %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators
urging
the
 Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
children who
 need
 Braille instruction receive it.



 Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
their son,
 Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
albinism and
 nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
enlarged
 print
 for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
sustained periods
 of
 time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
officials that
 their
 son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
reading,
 the
 school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
the Blind
 and
 Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
print
 reader,
 notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
room for
 language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
process
 provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
Improvement Act
 of
 2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
struggle with
 his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
unable to
 convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
 instruction.
 She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
quantity
 and
 quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
school and
 the
 commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
 participate
 in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
 concluded
 after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
extended
 periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue,
and loss
 of
 reading speed and comprehension.



 In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
that the
 school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
Braille."
 She found that the school board and the commission had failed to
assess
 Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
on reading
 assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
alleged
 failure
 to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
unconvinced by
 the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
technology
 as
 reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
"as
 pointed
 out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
does not
 equate
 to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
comprehending text
 by
 passively listening, even if one is following along with the
reading."
 The
 order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on
them to
 do,
 which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
meaningful
 educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
 James-Beavers
 ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
for
 forty-five
 minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
compensatory
 instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
provided with
 Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
programs or
 tutoring.



 Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
Blind, said:
 "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
and blind
 adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
the
 years,
 the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
that blind
 children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
instruction
 when
 it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
comprehensive
 examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
independent judge
 has
 confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
officials
 across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
to giving
 blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
the vast
 majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
National
 Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
like the
 Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
establishment
 in
 obtaining the equal education to which their children are
entitled and
 which
 they deserve."



 Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with
this
 ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
prolonged battle
 to
 achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes
that
 other
 parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
I thank
 the
 National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
experts
 who
 came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
publicly
 advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
 instruction
 for blind children."



 The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
Krevor-Weisbaum
 of
 the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
Wesler of the
 Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



 For more information about the National Federation of the Blind,
please
 visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
about
 Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
visit
 www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







 ###





 About the National Federation of the Blind



 With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
Blind is
 the
 largest and most influential membership organization of blind
people in
 the
 United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through
advocacy,
 education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
independence
 and
 self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness field
today and
 the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened
the
 National
 Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
and
 training
 center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



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From mworkman.lists at gmail.com  Sun May 13 01:20:59 2012
From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 18:20:59 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
	NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <4faee2be.01dbe00a.1855.3ff1@mx.google.com>
References: <4faee2be.01dbe00a.1855.3ff1@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <6039B818-80F3-4D8E-BD3E-0E29D8BB1356@gmail.com>

Chris,

According to your definition, someone who needs glasses to read print is also illiterate because the glasses might break. Literacy is complicated. A Braille reader that loses both her hands doesn't suddenly become illiterate to my mind. Nor does a print reader become illiterate after becoming blind.

The only thing I take issue with is the idea that Braille is essential for success. To put the point as Josh does in another message: "without Braille, you fail". Sorry, but this is factually incorrect. There are too many examples of successful blind people who cannot read Braille. I get why this is the message that is put forward. I imagine it's useful for motivating children to learn Braille, and it's no doubt politically expedient when advocating for more funding to teach Braille, both of which I understand and support, but I also suspect I'm not a total anomaly, and there are children wasting time learning Braille as I did. Or, to put it another way, there are children who might be forced unnecessarily to learn Braille if more people held the attitudes promoted in some of the messages I've read. Overall, more children would probably benefit than suffer, but some children certainly would suffer, in the sense that they would be dragged out of class and required to learn a skill that they will never really make use of.

I probably should just stay quiet, as I believe Braille is a powerful tool, but it's difficult to sit back and say nothing when I hear propaganda-like slogans such as "without Braille, you fail".

Best,

Marc
On 2012-05-12, at 3:22 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

> Good points, Marc.  What I mean by "illiterate" is simply that you can't effectively and efficiently read written text independently.  Yes, you can use audio, but that technology might break...
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
> 2 Corinthians 5:7
> 
> Sent from my BrailleNote
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced on them as a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight year old can muster.  At several times throughout my primary and secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille even though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.
> 
> Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to resist.  There are lots of things that children resist learning for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages, musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person.  Braille falls into this category for me.  Knowing it better would likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in french, particularly in Canada.
> 
> Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with statements like this one from Chris:
> 
> "Without Braille, we can't read or write."
> 
> And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others making the same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad, masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is illiterate.  Without being too immodest, I think I write better than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an illiterate person.
> 
> Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want that for their children should receive the instruction they desire.  Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille if they so desire.  What I think is worth pointing out is that Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be successful, and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other skills.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Marc
> On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
> 
> A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was actually
> having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, who asked me
> whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of audio
> technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that happening, I
> wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? Because there are
> enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent that from
> happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary source of
> reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in audio format,
> although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes, isn't true
> literacy.  Braille is our form of literacy.  Without Braille, we can't read or
> write.  This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or keep up with
> our sighted peers.  So, I think we definitely still need Braille because it
> is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should get rid of
> print too!
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to resolve.
> What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, these battles
> aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first place.  Parents
> capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child doesn't need
> Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy or legal
> resources to stick it out.
> The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the denial of
> Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people entrusted to
> promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a few weeks
> ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her with Braille
> copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.  Instead, the
> teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys representing
> the characters in the stories.  I can understand using toys to substitute for
> the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the stories, why
> not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I might add that
> in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed, transcribing
> a book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this case with the
> Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's decision not to
> provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to teach us literacy
> don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified teacher of
> blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to hold their
> students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of that
> certificate.
> I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to bring
> about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille today and
> in the future.
> Arielle
> 
> On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> How old is the child?
> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
> Any word on how old he is?
> Thanks, Joshua
> 
> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I agree, how  sad.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loren
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
> Would
> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
> Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for
> your child.
> 
> Loren Wakefield
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
> Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
> To: Undisclosed recipients:
> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> 
> 
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> 
> 
> 
> CONTACT:
> 
> Chris Danielsen
> 
> Director of Public Relations
> 
> National Federation of the Blind
> 
> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
> 
> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
> 
> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
> Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> 
> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
> and
> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
> 2011
> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
> Henry
> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
> and
> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
> assistance
> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
> comes
> on the heels of
> 
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
> Duncan%20re
> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators urging the
> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
> need
> Braille instruction receive it.
> 
> 
> 
> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
> print
> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods
> of
> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
> their
> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
> the
> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
> and
> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
> reader,
> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act
> of
> 2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
> instruction.
> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
> and
> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
> the
> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
> participate
> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
> concluded
> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss
> of
> reading speed and comprehension.
> 
> 
> 
> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
> failure
> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
> as
> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
> pointed
> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
> equate
> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
> by
> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
> The
> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
> do,
> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.  meaningful
> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
> James-Beavers
> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
> forty-five
> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
> tutoring.
> 
> 
> 
> Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
> years,
> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
> when
> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
> has
> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
> in
> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
> which
> they deserve."
> 
> 
> 
> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle
> to
> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
> other
> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
> the
> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
> who
> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
> instruction
> for blind children."
> 
> 
> 
> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
> of
> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.  Wesler of the
> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
> 
> 
> 
> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ###
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About the National Federation of the Blind
> 
> 
> 
> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
> the
> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
> the
> United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
> and
> self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
> the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened the
> National
> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
> training
> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sun May 13 01:22:14 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 20:22:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
 BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <4faf0ba8.0d64650a.3aea.ffffe092@mx.google.com>
References: <4faf0ba8.0d64650a.3aea.ffffe092@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOsEq3L0Ec-N1Bf_fa4LzfBfijeiQW2gGZysDO2nLyHkPw@mail.gmail.com>

Good grief!
Since we're discussing Braille, what's the latest on one of our famous
Braille codes, the Nemith code?
Are they still trying to get rid of it?
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/12/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> OMG, I'm so sorry, Chris. (Sophie smacks herself in the head with
> her cane.) That's the thing about e-mails. Please forgive me. :)
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 18:22:53 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
> BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind
> Child
>
> Sophie,
>
> I agree.  I took Marc's statement to mean that totally blind
> people could in fact read and write, just with audio technology
> (e.g.  text-to-speech software.) As I said in my previous email,
> my point was that we couldn't read or write independently (when I
> say "read," I mean reading
> written text, as sighted people read print,) without Braille.  If
> a low-vision person has enough vision to read large print, of
> course, they could read the written word independently in that
> format.  But sometimes, even for low-vision people, reading large
> print becomes a tedious and difficult process, making it
> necessary for them to learn Braille in order for the process of
> reading and writing to be more efficient.
>
> By the way, I'm a guy! :)
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>
> Sent from my BrailleNote
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:06:25 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
> ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> Marc,
>
> I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't
> read or write,", she was speaking of the totally blind.  From
> your
> e-mail, I gather that you still have a good bit of my vision
> left.  I am completely blind, so there is no possible way that I
> could learn print.  Okay, I can learn to sign my name, but that's
> about it.  So for those of us who are totally blind or whose
> vision is not reliable enough for them to read print (sorry, but
> I think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we
> could not read or write.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced
> on them as a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight
> year old can muster.  At several times throughout my primary and
> secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille even
> though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.
>
> Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to
> resist.  There are lots of things that children resist learning
> for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages,
> musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute
> to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person.
> Braille falls into this category for me.  Knowing it better would
> likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in
> french, particularly in Canada.
>
> Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with
> statements like this one from Chris:
>
>  "Without Braille, we can't read or write."
>
> And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others
> making the same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is
> true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad,
> masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is
> illiterate.  Without being too immodest, I think I write better
> than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an
> illiterate person.
>
> Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want
> that for their children should receive the instruction they
> desire.  Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille
> if
> they so desire.  What I think is worth pointing out is that
> Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and
> write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be successful,
> and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent
> learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other
> skills.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Marc
> On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>
>  A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was
> actually
>  having a similar conversation with my school librarian today,
> who asked me
>  whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of
> audio
>  technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that
> happening, I
>  wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? Because
> there are
>  enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent
> that from
>  happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary
> source of
>  reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in
> audio format,
>  although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes,
> isn't true
>  literacy.  Braille is our form of literacy.  Without Braille, we
> can't read or
>  write.  This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or
> keep up with
>  our sighted peers.  So, I think we definitely still need Braille
> because it
>  is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should
> get rid of
>  print too!
>
>  Chris
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>  Of Arielle Silverman
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
> Applauds
>  NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>  It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to
> resolve.
>  What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children,
> these battles
>  aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first
> place.  Parents
>  capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child
> doesn't need
>  Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy
> or legal
>  resources to stick it out.
>  The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of
> the denial of
>  Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
> entrusted to
>  promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a
> few weeks
>  ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her
> with Braille
>  copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.
> Instead, the
>  teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys
> representing
>  the characters in the stories.  I can understand using toys to
> substitute for
>  the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the
> stories, why
>  not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I
> might add that
>  in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed,
> transcribing
>  a book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this case
> with the
>  Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's
> decision not to
>  provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to teach us
> literacy
>  don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified
> teacher of
>  blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to
> hold their
>  students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of
> that
>  certificate.
>  I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful
> precedent to bring
>  about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille
> today and
>  in the future.
>  Arielle
>
>  On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>  How old is the child?
>  I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
>  Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
>  Any word on how old he is?
>  Thanks, Joshua
>
>  On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>  I agree, how  sad.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Loren
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>  To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>  blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
> Applauds
>  NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>  It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this
> decision.
>  Would
>  anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
>  Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great
> thing for
>  your child.
>
>  Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>  Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>  To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
>  mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>  Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> New
>  Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>
>
>  From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>  To: Undisclosed recipients:
>  Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
> Ruling on
>  Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>  FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
>  CONTACT:
>
>  Chris Danielsen
>
>  Director of Public Relations
>
>  National Federation of the Blind
>
>  (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
>  (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
>  <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
>  National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
> Braille
>  Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>  After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
> Instruction
>
>
>
>
>  Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
> administrative
>  and
>  legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
> Board of
>  Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
> number:
>  2011
>  17218) from an administrative law judge that their
> eleven-year-old son
>  Henry
>  "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
> reading
>  and
>  writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
> the
>  assistance
>  of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/
> (NFB),
>  comes
>  on the heels of
>
>
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
> Duncan%20re
>  %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators
> urging
> the
>  Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
> children who
>  need
>  Braille instruction receive it.
>
>
>
>  Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
> their son,
>  Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
> albinism and
>  nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
> enlarged
>  print
>  for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
> sustained periods
>  of
>  time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
> officials that
>  their
>  son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
> reading,
>  the
>  school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
> the Blind
>  and
>  Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
> print
>  reader,
>  notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
> room for
>  language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
> process
>  provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
> Improvement Act
>  of
>  2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
> struggle with
>  his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
> unable to
>  convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>  instruction.
>  She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
> quantity
>  and
>  quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
> school and
>  the
>  commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>  participate
>  in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>  concluded
>  after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
> extended
>  periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue,
> and loss
>  of
>  reading speed and comprehension.
>
>
>
>  In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
> that the
>  school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
> Braille."
>  She found that the school board and the commission had failed to
> assess
>  Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
> on reading
>  assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
> alleged
>  failure
>  to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
> unconvinced by
>  the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
> technology
>  as
>  reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
> "as
>  pointed
>  out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
> does not
>  equate
>  to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
> comprehending text
>  by
>  passively listening, even if one is following along with the
> reading."
>  The
>  order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on
> them to
>  do,
>  which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
> meaningful
>  educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>  James-Beavers
>  ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
> for
>  forty-five
>  minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
> compensatory
>  instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
> provided with
>  Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
> programs or
>  tutoring.
>
>
>
>  Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
> Blind, said:
>  "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
> and blind
>  adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
> the
>  years,
>  the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
> that blind
>  children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
> instruction
>  when
>  it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
> comprehensive
>  examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
> independent judge
>  has
>  confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
> officials
>  across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
> to giving
>  blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
> the vast
>  majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
> National
>  Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
> like the
>  Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
> establishment
>  in
>  obtaining the equal education to which their children are
> entitled and
>  which
>  they deserve."
>
>
>
>  Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with
> this
>  ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
> prolonged battle
>  to
>  achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes
> that
>  other
>  parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
> I thank
>  the
>  National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
> experts
>  who
>  came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
> publicly
>  advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>  instruction
>  for blind children."
>
>
>
>  The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
> Krevor-Weisbaum
>  of
>  the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
> Wesler of the
>  Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>
>
>
>  For more information about the National Federation of the Blind,
> please
>  visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
> about
>  Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
> visit
>  www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  ###
>
>
>
>
>
>  About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
>  With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
> Blind is
>  the
>  largest and most influential membership organization of blind
> people in
>  the
>  United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through
> advocacy,
>  education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
> independence
>  and
>  self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness field
> today and
>  the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened
> the
>  National
>  Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
> and
>  training
>  center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
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>
>
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sun May 13 01:30:57 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 20:30:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
 NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <6039B818-80F3-4D8E-BD3E-0E29D8BB1356@gmail.com>
References: <4faee2be.01dbe00a.1855.3ff1@mx.google.com>
	<6039B818-80F3-4D8E-BD3E-0E29D8BB1356@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvBchhKYG7MFQ_e_gtJkyA5RC+kZ5L5n5N9Pc6sn4CcVw@mail.gmail.com>

I was never dragged out of class.
I was taught the Braille, in the classroom.
My instructor stayed with me, in all of my classes, until I reached 1st grade.
As someone who is totally blind, audio wouldn't be an option,
especially in Math courses.
How could you tell what graphs were what, if you couldn't see them?
If you have some sight, I can understand, but as Chris said, someone
who is totally blind, since birth, needs Braille.
Also, those who have some sight, have problems.
I've heard students, from the Arkansas School for the Blind,
complaining of headaichs, after taking tests, using the CCTV.
Those headaichs wouldn't have existed, if they would've learned, and
been taught Braille!
They should use what little sight, that they have, to see to get
around, instead of hurting their eyes, using a CCTV, to take tests!
I felt bad for those kids, at the school for the blind!
There's a girl on this list, that doesn't post as much, who has
experienced life, as a blind person, not knowing Braille, because she
had some sight.
She was forced to use a CCTV, until her junior year of high school!
I'd love for her to share her story on here!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/12/12, Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
> Chris,
>
> According to your definition, someone who needs glasses to read print is
> also illiterate because the glasses might break. Literacy is complicated. A
> Braille reader that loses both her hands doesn't suddenly become illiterate
> to my mind. Nor does a print reader become illiterate after becoming blind.
>
> The only thing I take issue with is the idea that Braille is essential for
> success. To put the point as Josh does in another message: "without Braille,
> you fail". Sorry, but this is factually incorrect. There are too many
> examples of successful blind people who cannot read Braille. I get why this
> is the message that is put forward. I imagine it's useful for motivating
> children to learn Braille, and it's no doubt politically expedient when
> advocating for more funding to teach Braille, both of which I understand and
> support, but I also suspect I'm not a total anomaly, and there are children
> wasting time learning Braille as I did. Or, to put it another way, there are
> children who might be forced unnecessarily to learn Braille if more people
> held the attitudes promoted in some of the messages I've read. Overall, more
> children would probably benefit than suffer, but some children certainly
> would suffer, in the sense that they would be dragged out of class and
> required to learn a skill that they will never really make use of.
>
> I probably should just stay quiet, as I believe Braille is a powerful tool,
> but it's difficult to sit back and say nothing when I hear propaganda-like
> slogans such as "without Braille, you fail".
>
> Best,
>
> Marc
> On 2012-05-12, at 3:22 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>
>> Good points, Marc.  What I mean by "illiterate" is simply that you can't
>> effectively and efficiently read written text independently.  Yes, you can
>> use audio, but that technology might break...
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
>> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>>
>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>> NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>> I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced on them as
>> a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight year old can muster.
>> At several times throughout my primary and secondary education, I was made
>> to learn and relearn Braille even though I didn't use it then and have
>> rarely used it since.
>>
>> Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to resist.
>> There are lots of things that children resist learning for one reason or
>> another (e.g.,second and third languages, musical instruments, dance), and
>> all of these skills contribute to the production of a more well-rounded
>> and talented person.  Braille falls into this category for me.  Knowing it
>> better would likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent
>> in french, particularly in Canada.
>>
>> Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with statements
>> like this one from Chris:
>>
>> "Without Braille, we can't read or write."
>>
>> And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others making the
>> same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is true, then this email
>> and every essay I wrote in my undergrad, masters, and PhD programs were
>> written by someone who is illiterate.  Without being too immodest, I think
>> I write better than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for
>> an illiterate person.
>>
>> Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want that for
>> their children should receive the instruction they desire.  Adults too
>> should receive the support to learn Braille if they so desire.  What I
>> think is worth pointing out is that Braille isn't necessary for blind
>> people to be able to read and write, Braille isn't necessary for blind
>> people to be successful, and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens
>> of hours spent learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning
>> other skills.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Marc
>> On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>>
>> A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was actually
>> having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, who asked
>> me
>> whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of audio
>> technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that happening,
>> I
>> wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? Because there are
>> enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent that from
>> happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary source of
>> reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in audio format,
>> although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes, isn't true
>> literacy.  Braille is our form of literacy.  Without Braille, we can't
>> read or
>> write.  This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or keep up
>> with
>> our sighted peers.  So, I think we definitely still need Braille because
>> it
>> is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should get rid
>> of
>> print too!
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Arielle Silverman
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>> It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to resolve.
>> What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, these battles
>> aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first place.
>> Parents
>> capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child doesn't need
>> Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy or legal
>> resources to stick it out.
>> The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the denial
>> of
>> Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people entrusted to
>> promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a few weeks
>> ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her with Braille
>> copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.  Instead,
>> the
>> teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys representing
>> the characters in the stories.  I can understand using toys to substitute
>> for
>> the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the stories,
>> why
>> not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I might add
>> that
>> in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed,
>> transcribing
>> a book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this case with the
>> Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's decision not
>> to
>> provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to teach us literacy
>> don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified teacher
>> of
>> blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to hold their
>> students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of that
>> certificate.
>> I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to
>> bring
>> about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille today
>> and
>> in the future.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> How old is the child?
>> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
>> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
>> Any word on how old he is?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> I agree, how  sad.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Loren
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
>> Would
>> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
>> Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for
>> your child.
>>
>> Loren Wakefield
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
>> mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
>> Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>> To: Undisclosed recipients:
>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>
>>
>>
>> CONTACT:
>>
>> Chris Danielsen
>>
>> Director of Public Relations
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind
>>
>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>
>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>
>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
>> Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
>> and
>> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
>> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
>> 2011
>> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
>> Henry
>> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
>> and
>> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
>> assistance
>> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
>> comes
>> on the heels of
>>
>> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
>> Duncan%20re
>> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators urging the
>> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
>> need
>> Braille instruction receive it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
>> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
>> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
>> print
>> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods
>> of
>> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
>> their
>> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
>> the
>> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
>> and
>> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
>> reader,
>> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
>> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
>> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act
>> of
>> 2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle
>> with
>> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
>> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>> instruction.
>> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
>> and
>> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
>> the
>> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>> participate
>> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>> concluded
>> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
>> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss
>> of
>> reading speed and comprehension.
>>
>>
>>
>> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
>> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
>> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
>> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
>> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
>> failure
>> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
>> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
>> as
>> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
>> pointed
>> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
>> equate
>> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
>> by
>> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
>> The
>> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
>> do,
>> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.  meaningful
>> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>> James-Beavers
>> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
>> forty-five
>> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
>> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
>> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
>> tutoring.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
>> said:
>> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
>> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
>> years,
>> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
>> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
>> when
>> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
>> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
>> has
>> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
>> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
>> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
>> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
>> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
>> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
>> in
>> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
>> which
>> they deserve."
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
>> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle
>> to
>> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
>> other
>> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
>> the
>> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
>> who
>> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
>> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>> instruction
>> for blind children."
>>
>>
>>
>> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
>> of
>> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.  Wesler of
>> the
>> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>>
>>
>>
>> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
>> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
>> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
>> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ###
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>
>>
>>
>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
>> the
>> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
>> the
>> United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
>> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
>> and
>> self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness field today
>> and
>> the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened the
>> National
>> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
>> training
>> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Sun May 13 02:03:29 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 21:03:29 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of theBlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling
	on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
Message-ID: <4faf169d.2706650a.6b7b.1629@mx.google.com>

They're trying to get rid of Nemeth? But don't they realize that 
the mathematical system will be screwed without Nemeth?

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 20:22:14 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of 
theBlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind 
Child

Good grief!
Since we're discussing Braille, what's the latest on one of our 
famous
Braille codes, the Nemith code?
Are they still trying to get rid of it?
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/12/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
 OMG, I'm so sorry, Chris. (Sophie smacks herself in the head 
with
 her cane.) That's the thing about e-mails. Please forgive me. :)

  ----- Original Message -----
 From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
 list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 18:22:53 -0400
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
 BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind
 Child

 Sophie,

 I agree.  I took Marc's statement to mean that totally blind
 people could in fact read and write, just with audio technology
 (e.g.  text-to-speech software.) As I said in my previous email,
 my point was that we couldn't read or write independently (when 
I
 say "read," I mean reading
 written text, as sighted people read print,) without Braille.  
If
 a low-vision person has enough vision to read large print, of
 course, they could read the written word independently in that
 format.  But sometimes, even for low-vision people, reading 
large
 print becomes a tedious and difficult process, making it
 necessary for them to learn Braille in order for the process of
 reading and writing to be more efficient.

 By the way, I'm a guy! :)

 Chris Nusbaum

 "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
 2 Corinthians 5:7

 Sent from my BrailleNote

  ----- Original Message -----
 From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
 list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:06:25 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
 ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 Marc,

 I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't
 read or write,", she was speaking of the totally blind.  From
 your
 e-mail, I gather that you still have a good bit of my vision
 left.  I am completely blind, so there is no possible way that I
 could learn print.  Okay, I can learn to sign my name, but 
that's
 about it.  So for those of us who are totally blind or whose
 vision is not reliable enough for them to read print (sorry, but
 I think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we
 could not read or write.

  ----- Original Message -----
 From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
 NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced
 on them as a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight
 year old can muster.  At several times throughout my primary and
 secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille 
even
 though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.

 Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to
 resist.  There are lots of things that children resist learning
 for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages,
 musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute
 to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person.
 Braille falls into this category for me.  Knowing it better 
would
 likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in
 french, particularly in Canada.

 Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with
 statements like this one from Chris:

  "Without Braille, we can't read or write."

 And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others
 making the same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is
 true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad,
 masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is
 illiterate.  Without being too immodest, I think I write better
 than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an
 illiterate person.

 Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want
 that for their children should receive the instruction they
 desire.  Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille
 if
 they so desire.  What I think is worth pointing out is that
 Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and
 write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be 
successful,
 and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent
 learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other
 skills.

 Cheers,

 Marc
 On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

  A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was
 actually
  having a similar conversation with my school librarian today,
 who asked me
  whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of
 audio
  technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that
 happening, I
  wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? Because
 there are
  enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent
 that from
  happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary
 source of
  reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in
 audio format,
  although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes,
 isn't true
  literacy.  Braille is our form of literacy.  Without Braille, 
we
 can't read or
  write.  This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, 
or
 keep up with
  our sighted peers.  So, I think we definitely still need 
Braille
 because it
  is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we 
should
 get rid of
  print too!

  Chris

  -----Original Message-----
  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
 [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
  Of Arielle Silverman
  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
 Applauds
  NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

  It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to
 resolve.
  What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children,
 these battles
  aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first
 place.  Parents
  capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child
 doesn't need
  Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy
 or legal
  resources to stick it out.
  The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of
 the denial of
  Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
 entrusted to
  promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a
 few weeks
  ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her
 with Braille
  copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.
 Instead, the
  teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys
 representing
  the characters in the stories.  I can understand using toys to
 substitute for
  the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the
 stories, why
  not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I
 might add that
  in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed,
 transcribing
  a book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this 
case
 with the
  Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's
 decision not to
  provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to teach us
 literacy
  don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified
 teacher of
  blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to
 hold their
  students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of
 that
  certificate.
  I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful
 precedent to bring
  about big changes for those parents who are fighting for 
Braille
 today and
  in the future.
  Arielle

  On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> 
wrote:
  How old is the child?
  I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
  Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
  Any word on how old he is?
  Thanks, Joshua

  On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
  I agree, how  sad.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Loren
  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
  To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
  blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
 Applauds
  NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

  It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this
 decision.
  Would
  anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
  Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great
 thing for
  your child.

  Loren Wakefield



  -----Original Message-----
  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
 [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
  Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
  To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind 
Students
  mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
  Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
 New
  Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





  From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
  To: Undisclosed recipients:
  Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
 Ruling on
  Braille Instruction for Blind Child



  FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



  CONTACT:

  Chris Danielsen

  Director of Public Relations

  National Federation of the Blind

  (410) 659-9314, extension 2330

  (410) 262-1281 (Cell)

  <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




  National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
 Braille
  Instruction for Blind Child


  After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
 Instruction




  Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
 administrative
  and
  legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
 Board of
  Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
 number:
  2011
  17218) from an administrative law judge that their
 eleven-year-old son
  Henry
  "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
 reading
  and
  writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
 the
  assistance
  of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/
 (NFB),
  comes
  on the heels of


 
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
 Duncan%20re
  %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators
 urging
 the
  Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
 children who
  need
  Braille instruction receive it.



  Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
 their son,
  Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
 albinism and
  nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
 enlarged
  print
  for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
 sustained periods
  of
  time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
 officials that
  their
  son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
 reading,
  the
  school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
 the Blind
  and
  Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
 print
  reader,
  notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
 room for
  language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
 process
  provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
 Improvement Act
  of
  2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
 struggle with
  his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
 unable to
  convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
  instruction.
  She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
 quantity
  and
  quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
 school and
  the
  commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
  participate
  in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the 
NFB
  concluded
  after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
 extended
  periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, 
fatigue,
 and loss
  of
  reading speed and comprehension.



  In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
 that the
  school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
 Braille."
  She found that the school board and the commission had failed 
to
 assess
  Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
 on reading
  assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
 alleged
  failure
  to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
 unconvinced by
  the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
 technology
  as
  reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
 "as
  pointed
  out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
 does not
  equate
  to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
 comprehending text
  by
  passively listening, even if one is following along with the
 reading."
  The
  order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied 
on
 them to
  do,
  which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
 meaningful
  educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
  James-Beavers
  ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
 for
  forty-five
  minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
 compensatory
  instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
 provided with
  Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
 programs or
  tutoring.



  Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
 Blind, said:
  "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
 and blind
  adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
 the
  years,
  the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
 that blind
  children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
 instruction
  when
  it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
 comprehensive
  examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
 independent judge
  has
  confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
 officials
  across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
 to giving
  blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
 the vast
  majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
 National
  Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
 like the
  Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
 establishment
  in
  obtaining the equal education to which their children are
 entitled and
  which
  they deserve."



  Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled 
with
 this
  ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
 prolonged battle
  to
  achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in 
hopes
 that
  other
  parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
 I thank
  the
  National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
 experts
  who
  came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
 publicly
  advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
  instruction
  for blind children."



  The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
 Krevor-Weisbaum
  of
  the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
 Wesler of the
  Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



  For more information about the National Federation of the 
Blind,
 please
  visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
 about
  Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
 visit
  www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







  ###





  About the National Federation of the Blind



  With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
 Blind is
  the
  largest and most influential membership organization of blind
 people in
  the
  United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through
 advocacy,
  education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
 independence
  and
  self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness 
field
 today and
  the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB 
opened
 the
  National
  Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
 and
  training
  center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



  _______________________________________________
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  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sun May 13 02:07:10 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 21:07:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of theBlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling
 on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <4faf169d.2706650a.6b7b.1629@mx.google.com>
References: <4faf169d.2706650a.6b7b.1629@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOti1RBzWK9ystw6cS14HJSWdvGwd1B5U6JAYfxEykfruA@mail.gmail.com>

I know!
Blame the Braille Authority of North America!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/12/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> They're trying to get rid of Nemeth? But don't they realize that
> the mathematical system will be screwed without Nemeth?
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 20:22:14 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of
> theBlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind
> Child
>
> Good grief!
> Since we're discussing Braille, what's the latest on one of our
> famous
> Braille codes, the Nemith code?
> Are they still trying to get rid of it?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/12/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>  OMG, I'm so sorry, Chris. (Sophie smacks herself in the head
> with
>  her cane.) That's the thing about e-mails. Please forgive me. :)
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
>  list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 18:22:53 -0400
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
>  BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind
>  Child
>
>  Sophie,
>
>  I agree.  I took Marc's statement to mean that totally blind
>  people could in fact read and write, just with audio technology
>  (e.g.  text-to-speech software.) As I said in my previous email,
>  my point was that we couldn't read or write independently (when
> I
>  say "read," I mean reading
>  written text, as sighted people read print,) without Braille.
> If
>  a low-vision person has enough vision to read large print, of
>  course, they could read the written word independently in that
>  format.  But sometimes, even for low-vision people, reading
> large
>  print becomes a tedious and difficult process, making it
>  necessary for them to learn Braille in order for the process of
>  reading and writing to be more efficient.
>
>  By the way, I'm a guy! :)
>
>  Chris Nusbaum
>
>  "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
>  2 Corinthians 5:7
>
>  Sent from my BrailleNote
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
>  list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>   sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:06:25 -0500
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
>  ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>  Marc,
>
>  I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't
>  read or write,", she was speaking of the totally blind.  From
>  your
>  e-mail, I gather that you still have a good bit of my vision
>  left.  I am completely blind, so there is no possible way that I
>  could learn print.  Okay, I can learn to sign my name, but
> that's
>  about it.  So for those of us who are totally blind or whose
>  vision is not reliable enough for them to read print (sorry, but
>  I think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we
>  could not read or write.
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>  NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>  I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced
>  on them as a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight
>  year old can muster.  At several times throughout my primary and
>  secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille
> even
>  though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.
>
>  Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to
>  resist.  There are lots of things that children resist learning
>  for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages,
>  musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute
>  to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person.
>  Braille falls into this category for me.  Knowing it better
> would
>  likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in
>  french, particularly in Canada.
>
>  Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with
>  statements like this one from Chris:
>
>   "Without Braille, we can't read or write."
>
>  And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others
>  making the same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is
>  true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad,
>  masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is
>  illiterate.  Without being too immodest, I think I write better
>  than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an
>  illiterate person.
>
>  Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want
>  that for their children should receive the instruction they
>  desire.  Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille
>  if
>  they so desire.  What I think is worth pointing out is that
>  Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and
>  write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be
> successful,
>  and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent
>  learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other
>  skills.
>
>  Cheers,
>
>  Marc
>  On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>
>   A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was
>  actually
>   having a similar conversation with my school librarian today,
>  who asked me
>   whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of
>  audio
>   technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that
>  happening, I
>   wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? Because
>  there are
>   enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent
>  that from
>   happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary
>  source of
>   reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in
>  audio format,
>   although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes,
>  isn't true
>   literacy.  Braille is our form of literacy.  Without Braille,
> we
>  can't read or
>   write.  This means that we can't get a job, or go to college,
> or
>  keep up with
>   our sighted peers.  So, I think we definitely still need
> Braille
>  because it
>   is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we
> should
>  get rid of
>   print too!
>
>   Chris
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>  [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>   Of Arielle Silverman
>   Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
>   To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
>  Applauds
>   NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>   It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to
>  resolve.
>   What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children,
>  these battles
>   aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first
>  place.  Parents
>   capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child
>  doesn't need
>   Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy
>  or legal
>   resources to stick it out.
>   The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of
>  the denial of
>   Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
>  entrusted to
>   promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a
>  few weeks
>   ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her
>  with Braille
>   copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.
>  Instead, the
>   teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys
>  representing
>   the characters in the stories.  I can understand using toys to
>  substitute for
>   the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the
>  stories, why
>   not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I
>  might add that
>   in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed,
>  transcribing
>   a book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this
> case
>  with the
>   Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's
>  decision not to
>   provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to teach us
>  literacy
>   don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified
>  teacher of
>   blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to
>  hold their
>   students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of
>  that
>   certificate.
>   I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful
>  precedent to bring
>   about big changes for those parents who are fighting for
> Braille
>  today and
>   in the future.
>   Arielle
>
>   On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>   How old is the child?
>   I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
>   Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
>   Any word on how old he is?
>   Thanks, Joshua
>
>   On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>   I agree, how  sad.
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Loren
>   Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>   To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
>  Applauds
>   NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>   It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this
>  decision.
>   Would
>   anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
>   Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great
>  thing for
>   your child.
>
>   Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>  [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>   Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>   Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>   To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind
> Students
>   mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>   Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>  New
>   Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>
>
>   From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>   Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>   To: Undisclosed recipients:
>   Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
>  Ruling on
>   Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>   FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
>   CONTACT:
>
>   Chris Danielsen
>
>   Director of Public Relations
>
>   National Federation of the Blind
>
>   (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
>   (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
>   <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
>   National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>  Braille
>   Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>   After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
>  Instruction
>
>
>
>
>   Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
>  administrative
>   and
>   legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
>  Board of
>   Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
>  number:
>   2011
>   17218) from an administrative law judge that their
>  eleven-year-old son
>   Henry
>   "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
>  reading
>   and
>   writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
>  the
>   assistance
>   of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/
>  (NFB),
>   comes
>   on the heels of
>
>
>
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
>  Duncan%20re
>   %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators
>  urging
>  the
>   Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
>  children who
>   need
>   Braille instruction receive it.
>
>
>
>   Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
>  their son,
>   Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
>  albinism and
>   nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
>  enlarged
>   print
>   for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
>  sustained periods
>   of
>   time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
>  officials that
>   their
>   son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
>  reading,
>   the
>   school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
>  the Blind
>   and
>   Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
>  print
>   reader,
>   notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
>  room for
>   language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
>  process
>   provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
>  Improvement Act
>   of
>   2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
>  struggle with
>   his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
>  unable to
>   convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>   instruction.
>   She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
>  quantity
>   and
>   quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
>  school and
>   the
>   commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>   participate
>   in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the
> NFB
>   concluded
>   after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
>  extended
>   periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain,
> fatigue,
>  and loss
>   of
>   reading speed and comprehension.
>
>
>
>   In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
>  that the
>   school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
>  Braille."
>   She found that the school board and the commission had failed
> to
>  assess
>   Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
>  on reading
>   assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
>  alleged
>   failure
>   to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
>  unconvinced by
>   the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
>  technology
>   as
>   reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
>  "as
>   pointed
>   out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
>  does not
>   equate
>   to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
>  comprehending text
>   by
>   passively listening, even if one is following along with the
>  reading."
>   The
>   order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied
> on
>  them to
>   do,
>   which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
>  meaningful
>   educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>   James-Beavers
>   ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
>  for
>   forty-five
>   minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
>  compensatory
>   instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
>  provided with
>   Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
>  programs or
>   tutoring.
>
>
>
>   Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
>  Blind, said:
>   "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
>  and blind
>   adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
>  the
>   years,
>   the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
>  that blind
>   children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
>  instruction
>   when
>   it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
>  comprehensive
>   examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
>  independent judge
>   has
>   confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
>  officials
>   across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
>  to giving
>   blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
>  the vast
>   majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
>  National
>   Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
>  like the
>   Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
>  establishment
>   in
>   obtaining the equal education to which their children are
>  entitled and
>   which
>   they deserve."
>
>
>
>   Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled
> with
>  this
>   ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
>  prolonged battle
>   to
>   achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in
> hopes
>  that
>   other
>   parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
>  I thank
>   the
>   National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
>  experts
>   who
>   came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
>  publicly
>   advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>   instruction
>   for blind children."
>
>
>
>   The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
>  Krevor-Weisbaum
>   of
>   the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
>  Wesler of the
>   Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>
>
>
>   For more information about the National Federation of the
> Blind,
>  please
>   visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
>  about
>   Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
>  visit
>   www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   ###
>
>
>
>
>
>   About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
>   With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
>  Blind is
>   the
>   largest and most influential membership organization of blind
>  people in
>   the
>   United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through
>  advocacy,
>   education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
>  independence
>   and
>   self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness
> field
>  today and
>   the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB
> opened
>  the
>   National
>   Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
>  and
>   training
>   center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
>   _______________________________________________
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>
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun May 13 03:32:42 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 23:32:42 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
	ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <6039B818-80F3-4D8E-BD3E-0E29D8BB1356@gmail.com>
References: <4faee2be.01dbe00a.1855.3ff1@mx.google.com>
	<6039B818-80F3-4D8E-BD3E-0E29D8BB1356@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C99FDBBF2CCF46B8920976F5471FB009@OwnerPC>

Mark,
I just don't see how you learn without braille. Sure we all do it. I did it 
in high school because the volumes of braille would be impractical to take 
home. I had gobbs of reading for english, all those novels! I had too much 
reading in fact as they pile on homework in high school. However, by then I 
could read and write. I knew how to spell; I knew such things as what a 
paragraph is, what a sentence, where to place my periods and commas, 
although I'll admit I still don't know all comma rules,
and I knew what was capitalized.  So what I'm saying for a young child is 
you have to have a foundation and see the written word, print or braille, 
and then sure once you have a foundation you can transfer to audio.
But really, I fail to see how you learn without braille in the early grades 
as you are learning how to write.
I do see your points; you can be successful with mostly auditory learning. 
Heck since junior high school when we got more homework, I did more and more 
auditorily, but I did have a foundation in reading and writing.
That to me is the key.  I was also successful with more auditory learning. 
But I could not learn without braille to this day. Although I have no TVI to 
transcribe handouts in braille, no texts in braille, no research material in 
braille, I do use braille everyday in my own notes. I take notes with my 
braille note. I also have to ask for spellings so I can write foreign or 
proper names in print for my papers as when reading it I only hear it spoken 
and do not always know how to spell it. I write the correct spelling in 
braille. By writing in braille, it helps me learn and remember the spelling.



As Josh  said "without braille, you fail."
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Marc Workman
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 9:20 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind 
ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Chris,

According to your definition, someone who needs glasses to read print is 
also illiterate because the glasses might break. Literacy is complicated. A 
Braille reader that loses both her hands doesn't suddenly become illiterate 
to my mind. Nor does a print reader become illiterate after becoming blind.

The only thing I take issue with is the idea that Braille is essential for 
success. To put the point as Josh does in another message: "without Braille, 
you fail". Sorry, but this is factually incorrect. There are too many 
examples of successful blind people who cannot read Braille. I get why this 
is the message that is put forward. I imagine it's useful for motivating 
children to learn Braille, and it's no doubt politically expedient when 
advocating for more funding to teach Braille, both of which I understand and 
support, but I also suspect I'm not a total anomaly, and there are children 
wasting time learning Braille as I did. Or, to put it another way, there are 
children who might be forced unnecessarily to learn Braille if more people 
held the attitudes promoted in some of the messages I've read. Overall, more 
children would probably benefit than suffer, but some children certainly 
would suffer, in the sense that they would be dragged out of class and 
required to learn a skill that they will never really make use of.

I probably should just stay quiet, as I believe Braille is a powerful tool, 
but it's difficult to sit back and say nothing when I hear propaganda-like 
slogans such as "without Braille, you fail".

Best,

Marc
On 2012-05-12, at 3:22 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

> Good points, Marc.  What I mean by "illiterate" is simply that you can't 
> effectively and efficiently read written text independently.  Yes, you can 
> use audio, but that technology might break...
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>
> Sent from my BrailleNote
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
> NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced on them as 
> a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight year old can muster. 
> At several times throughout my primary and secondary education, I was made 
> to learn and relearn Braille even though I didn't use it then and have 
> rarely used it since.
>
> Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to resist. 
> There are lots of things that children resist learning for one reason or 
> another (e.g.,second and third languages, musical instruments, dance), and 
> all of these skills contribute to the production of a more well-rounded 
> and talented person.  Braille falls into this category for me.  Knowing it 
> better would likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent 
> in french, particularly in Canada.
>
> Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with statements 
> like this one from Chris:
>
> "Without Braille, we can't read or write."
>
> And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others making the 
> same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is true, then this email 
> and every essay I wrote in my undergrad, masters, and PhD programs were 
> written by someone who is illiterate.  Without being too immodest, I think 
> I write better than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for 
> an illiterate person.
>
> Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want that for 
> their children should receive the instruction they desire.  Adults too 
> should receive the support to learn Braille if they so desire.  What I 
> think is worth pointing out is that Braille isn't necessary for blind 
> people to be able to read and write, Braille isn't necessary for blind 
> people to be successful, and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens 
> of hours spent learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning 
> other skills.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Marc
> On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>
> A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was actually
> having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, who asked me
> whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of audio
> technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that happening, 
> I
> wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? Because there are
> enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent that from
> happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary source of
> reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in audio format,
> although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes, isn't true
> literacy.  Braille is our form of literacy.  Without Braille, we can't 
> read or
> write.  This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or keep up 
> with
> our sighted peers.  So, I think we definitely still need Braille because 
> it
> is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should get rid 
> of
> print too!
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to resolve.
> What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, these battles
> aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first place. 
> Parents
> capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child doesn't need
> Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy or legal
> resources to stick it out.
> The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the denial 
> of
> Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people entrusted to
> promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a few weeks
> ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her with Braille
> copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.  Instead, 
> the
> teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys representing
> the characters in the stories.  I can understand using toys to substitute 
> for
> the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the stories, 
> why
> not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I might add 
> that
> in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed, 
> transcribing
> a book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this case with the
> Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's decision not 
> to
> provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to teach us literacy
> don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified teacher of
> blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to hold their
> students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of that
> certificate.
> I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to 
> bring
> about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille today and
> in the future.
> Arielle
>
> On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> How old is the child?
> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
> Any word on how old he is?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I agree, how  sad.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loren
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
> Would
> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
> Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for
> your child.
>
> Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
> Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
> To: Undisclosed recipients:
> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
> CONTACT:
>
> Chris Danielsen
>
> Director of Public Relations
>
> National Federation of the Blind
>
> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
> Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>
>
>
>
> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
> and
> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
> 2011
> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
> Henry
> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
> and
> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
> assistance
> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
> comes
> on the heels of
>
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
> Duncan%20re
> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators urging the
> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
> need
> Braille instruction receive it.
>
>
>
> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
> print
> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods
> of
> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
> their
> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
> the
> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
> and
> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
> reader,
> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act
> of
> 2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
> instruction.
> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
> and
> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
> the
> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
> participate
> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
> concluded
> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss
> of
> reading speed and comprehension.
>
>
>
> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
> failure
> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
> as
> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
> pointed
> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
> equate
> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
> by
> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
> The
> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
> do,
> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.  meaningful
> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
> James-Beavers
> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
> forty-five
> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
> tutoring.
>
>
>
> Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
> years,
> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
> when
> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
> has
> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
> in
> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
> which
> they deserve."
>
>
>
> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle
> to
> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
> other
> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
> the
> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
> who
> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
> instruction
> for blind children."
>
>
>
> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
> of
> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.  Wesler of the
> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>
>
>
> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ###
>
>
>
>
>
> About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
> the
> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
> the
> United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
> and
> self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
> the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened the
> National
> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
> training
> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun May 13 03:34:56 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 23:34:56 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of
	theBlindApplaudsNewJerseyRulingon Braille Instruction for
	Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <4faf169d.2706650a.6b7b.1629@mx.google.com>
References: <4faf169d.2706650a.6b7b.1629@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <6061DF552864480E86DDA6F47A56F395@OwnerPC>

Sophie, there is more to the story. read the BANA articles in the braille 
monitor. Basically they are revising the code to combine nemeth and literary 
braille. Again read the stuff about BANA, there are three articles there in 
the monitor for more info; it’s the braille authority of north america, 
bana.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Sophie Trist
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 10:03 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of 
theBlindApplaudsNewJerseyRulingon Braille Instruction for Blind Child

They're trying to get rid of Nemeth? But don't they realize that
the mathematical system will be screwed without Nemeth?

----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 20:22:14 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of
theBlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind
Child

Good grief!
Since we're discussing Braille, what's the latest on one of our
famous
Braille codes, the Nemith code?
Are they still trying to get rid of it?
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/12/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
OMG, I'm so sorry, Chris. (Sophie smacks herself in the head
with
her cane.) That's the thing about e-mails. Please forgive me. :)

  ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 18:22:53 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind
Child

Sophie,

I agree.  I took Marc's statement to mean that totally blind
people could in fact read and write, just with audio technology
(e.g.  text-to-speech software.) As I said in my previous email,
my point was that we couldn't read or write independently (when
I
say "read," I mean reading
written text, as sighted people read print,) without Braille.
If
a low-vision person has enough vision to read large print, of
course, they could read the written word independently in that
format.  But sometimes, even for low-vision people, reading
large
print becomes a tedious and difficult process, making it
necessary for them to learn Braille in order for the process of
reading and writing to be more efficient.

By the way, I'm a guy! :)

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

  ----- Original Message -----
From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:06:25 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Marc,

I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't
read or write,", she was speaking of the totally blind.  From
your
e-mail, I gather that you still have a good bit of my vision
left.  I am completely blind, so there is no possible way that I
could learn print.  Okay, I can learn to sign my name, but
that's
about it.  So for those of us who are totally blind or whose
vision is not reliable enough for them to read print (sorry, but
I think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we
could not read or write.

  ----- Original Message -----
From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced
on them as a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight
year old can muster.  At several times throughout my primary and
secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille
even
though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to
resist.  There are lots of things that children resist learning
for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages,
musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute
to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person.
Braille falls into this category for me.  Knowing it better
would
likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in
french, particularly in Canada.

Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with
statements like this one from Chris:

  "Without Braille, we can't read or write."

And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others
making the same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is
true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad,
masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is
illiterate.  Without being too immodest, I think I write better
than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an
illiterate person.

Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want
that for their children should receive the instruction they
desire.  Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille
if
they so desire.  What I think is worth pointing out is that
Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and
write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be
successful,
and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent
learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other
skills.

Cheers,

Marc
On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

  A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was
actually
  having a similar conversation with my school librarian today,
who asked me
  whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of
audio
  technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that
happening, I
  wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? Because
there are
  enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent
that from
  happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary
source of
  reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in
audio format,
  although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes,
isn't true
  literacy.  Braille is our form of literacy.  Without Braille,
we
can't read or
  write.  This means that we can't get a job, or go to college,
or
keep up with
  our sighted peers.  So, I think we definitely still need
Braille
because it
  is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we
should
get rid of
  print too!

  Chris

  -----Original Message-----
  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
  Of Arielle Silverman
  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
Applauds
  NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

  It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to
resolve.
  What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children,
these battles
  aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first
place.  Parents
  capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child
doesn't need
  Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy
or legal
  resources to stick it out.
  The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of
the denial of
  Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
entrusted to
  promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a
few weeks
  ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her
with Braille
  copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.
Instead, the
  teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys
representing
  the characters in the stories.  I can understand using toys to
substitute for
  the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the
stories, why
  not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I
might add that
  in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed,
transcribing
  a book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this
case
with the
  Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's
decision not to
  provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to teach us
literacy
  don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified
teacher of
  blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to
hold their
  students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of
that
  certificate.
  I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful
precedent to bring
  about big changes for those parents who are fighting for
Braille
today and
  in the future.
  Arielle

  On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
wrote:
  How old is the child?
  I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
  Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
  Any word on how old he is?
  Thanks, Joshua

  On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
  I agree, how  sad.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Loren
  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
  To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
  blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
Applauds
  NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

  It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this
decision.
  Would
  anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
  Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great
thing for
  your child.

  Loren Wakefield



  -----Original Message-----
  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
  Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
  To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind
Students
  mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
  Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
New
  Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





  From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
  To: Undisclosed recipients:
  Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
Ruling on
  Braille Instruction for Blind Child



  FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



  CONTACT:

  Chris Danielsen

  Director of Public Relations

  National Federation of the Blind

  (410) 659-9314, extension 2330

  (410) 262-1281 (Cell)

  <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




  National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
Braille
  Instruction for Blind Child


  After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
Instruction




  Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
administrative
  and
  legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
Board of
  Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
number:
  2011
  17218) from an administrative law judge that their
eleven-year-old son
  Henry
  "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
reading
  and
  writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
the
  assistance
  of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/
(NFB),
  comes
  on the heels of



<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
Duncan%20re
  %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators
urging
the
  Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
children who
  need
  Braille instruction receive it.



  Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
their son,
  Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
albinism and
  nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
enlarged
  print
  for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
sustained periods
  of
  time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
officials that
  their
  son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
reading,
  the
  school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
the Blind
  and
  Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
print
  reader,
  notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
room for
  language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
process
  provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
Improvement Act
  of
  2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
struggle with
  his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
unable to
  convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
  instruction.
  She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
quantity
  and
  quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
school and
  the
  commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
  participate
  in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the
NFB
  concluded
  after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
extended
  periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain,
fatigue,
and loss
  of
  reading speed and comprehension.



  In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
that the
  school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
Braille."
  She found that the school board and the commission had failed
to
assess
  Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
on reading
  assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
alleged
  failure
  to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
unconvinced by
  the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
technology
  as
  reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
"as
  pointed
  out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
does not
  equate
  to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
comprehending text
  by
  passively listening, even if one is following along with the
reading."
  The
  order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied
on
them to
  do,
  which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
meaningful
  educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
  James-Beavers
  ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
for
  forty-five
  minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
compensatory
  instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
provided with
  Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
programs or
  tutoring.



  Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
Blind, said:
  "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
and blind
  adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
the
  years,
  the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
that blind
  children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
instruction
  when
  it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
comprehensive
  examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
independent judge
  has
  confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
officials
  across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
to giving
  blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
the vast
  majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
National
  Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
like the
  Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
establishment
  in
  obtaining the equal education to which their children are
entitled and
  which
  they deserve."



  Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled
with
this
  ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
prolonged battle
  to
  achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in
hopes
that
  other
  parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
I thank
  the
  National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
experts
  who
  came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
publicly
  advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
  instruction
  for blind children."



  The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
Krevor-Weisbaum
  of
  the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
Wesler of the
  Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



  For more information about the National Federation of the
Blind,
please
  visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
about
  Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
visit
  www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







  ###





  About the National Federation of the Blind



  With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
Blind is
  the
  largest and most influential membership organization of blind
people in
  the
  United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through
advocacy,
  education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
independence
  and
  self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness
field
today and
  the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB
opened
the
  National
  Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
and
  training
  center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun May 13 03:36:02 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 23:36:02 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of theBlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling
	on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOti1RBzWK9ystw6cS14HJSWdvGwd1B5U6JAYfxEykfruA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4faf169d.2706650a.6b7b.1629@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOti1RBzWK9ystw6cS14HJSWdvGwd1B5U6JAYfxEykfruA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DAE5C3B004EE4C0AB1EA8D1B901E9B4B@OwnerPC>

Josh,
They are revising the code; please do not state things wrong just because 
you do not like the changes.
BANA is thinking of revising the code. They have to due to changes in print. 
Again, read the articles to learn more

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 10:07 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of theBlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling 
on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

I know!
Blame the Braille Authority of North America!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/12/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> They're trying to get rid of Nemeth? But don't they realize that
> the mathematical system will be screwed without Nemeth?
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 20:22:14 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of
> theBlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind
> Child
>
> Good grief!
> Since we're discussing Braille, what's the latest on one of our
> famous
> Braille codes, the Nemith code?
> Are they still trying to get rid of it?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/12/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>  OMG, I'm so sorry, Chris. (Sophie smacks herself in the head
> with
>  her cane.) That's the thing about e-mails. Please forgive me. :)
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
>  list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 18:22:53 -0400
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
>  BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind
>  Child
>
>  Sophie,
>
>  I agree.  I took Marc's statement to mean that totally blind
>  people could in fact read and write, just with audio technology
>  (e.g.  text-to-speech software.) As I said in my previous email,
>  my point was that we couldn't read or write independently (when
> I
>  say "read," I mean reading
>  written text, as sighted people read print,) without Braille.
> If
>  a low-vision person has enough vision to read large print, of
>  course, they could read the written word independently in that
>  format.  But sometimes, even for low-vision people, reading
> large
>  print becomes a tedious and difficult process, making it
>  necessary for them to learn Braille in order for the process of
>  reading and writing to be more efficient.
>
>  By the way, I'm a guy! :)
>
>  Chris Nusbaum
>
>  "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
>  2 Corinthians 5:7
>
>  Sent from my BrailleNote
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
>  list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>   sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:06:25 -0500
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
>  ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>  Marc,
>
>  I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't
>  read or write,", she was speaking of the totally blind.  From
>  your
>  e-mail, I gather that you still have a good bit of my vision
>  left.  I am completely blind, so there is no possible way that I
>  could learn print.  Okay, I can learn to sign my name, but
> that's
>  about it.  So for those of us who are totally blind or whose
>  vision is not reliable enough for them to read print (sorry, but
>  I think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we
>  could not read or write.
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>  NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>  I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced
>  on them as a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight
>  year old can muster.  At several times throughout my primary and
>  secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille
> even
>  though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.
>
>  Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to
>  resist.  There are lots of things that children resist learning
>  for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages,
>  musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute
>  to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person.
>  Braille falls into this category for me.  Knowing it better
> would
>  likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in
>  french, particularly in Canada.
>
>  Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with
>  statements like this one from Chris:
>
>   "Without Braille, we can't read or write."
>
>  And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others
>  making the same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is
>  true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad,
>  masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is
>  illiterate.  Without being too immodest, I think I write better
>  than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an
>  illiterate person.
>
>  Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want
>  that for their children should receive the instruction they
>  desire.  Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille
>  if
>  they so desire.  What I think is worth pointing out is that
>  Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and
>  write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be
> successful,
>  and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent
>  learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other
>  skills.
>
>  Cheers,
>
>  Marc
>  On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>
>   A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was
>  actually
>   having a similar conversation with my school librarian today,
>  who asked me
>   whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of
>  audio
>   technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that
>  happening, I
>   wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? Because
>  there are
>   enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent
>  that from
>   happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary
>  source of
>   reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in
>  audio format,
>   although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes,
>  isn't true
>   literacy.  Braille is our form of literacy.  Without Braille,
> we
>  can't read or
>   write.  This means that we can't get a job, or go to college,
> or
>  keep up with
>   our sighted peers.  So, I think we definitely still need
> Braille
>  because it
>   is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we
> should
>  get rid of
>   print too!
>
>   Chris
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>  [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>   Of Arielle Silverman
>   Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
>   To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
>  Applauds
>   NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>   It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to
>  resolve.
>   What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children,
>  these battles
>   aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first
>  place.  Parents
>   capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child
>  doesn't need
>   Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy
>  or legal
>   resources to stick it out.
>   The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of
>  the denial of
>   Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
>  entrusted to
>   promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a
>  few weeks
>   ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her
>  with Braille
>   copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.
>  Instead, the
>   teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys
>  representing
>   the characters in the stories.  I can understand using toys to
>  substitute for
>   the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the
>  stories, why
>   not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I
>  might add that
>   in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed,
>  transcribing
>   a book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this
> case
>  with the
>   Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's
>  decision not to
>   provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to teach us
>  literacy
>   don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified
>  teacher of
>   blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to
>  hold their
>   students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of
>  that
>   certificate.
>   I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful
>  precedent to bring
>   about big changes for those parents who are fighting for
> Braille
>  today and
>   in the future.
>   Arielle
>
>   On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>   How old is the child?
>   I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
>   Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
>   Any word on how old he is?
>   Thanks, Joshua
>
>   On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>   I agree, how  sad.
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Loren
>   Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>   To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
>  Applauds
>   NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>   It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this
>  decision.
>   Would
>   anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
>   Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great
>  thing for
>   your child.
>
>   Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>  [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>   Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>   Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>   To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind
> Students
>   mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>   Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>  New
>   Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>
>
>   From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>   Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>   To: Undisclosed recipients:
>   Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
>  Ruling on
>   Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>   FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
>   CONTACT:
>
>   Chris Danielsen
>
>   Director of Public Relations
>
>   National Federation of the Blind
>
>   (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
>   (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
>   <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
>   National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>  Braille
>   Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>   After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
>  Instruction
>
>
>
>
>   Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
>  administrative
>   and
>   legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
>  Board of
>   Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
>  number:
>   2011
>   17218) from an administrative law judge that their
>  eleven-year-old son
>   Henry
>   "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
>  reading
>   and
>   writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
>  the
>   assistance
>   of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/
>  (NFB),
>   comes
>   on the heels of
>
>
>
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
>  Duncan%20re
>   %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators
>  urging
>  the
>   Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
>  children who
>   need
>   Braille instruction receive it.
>
>
>
>   Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
>  their son,
>   Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
>  albinism and
>   nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
>  enlarged
>   print
>   for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
>  sustained periods
>   of
>   time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
>  officials that
>   their
>   son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
>  reading,
>   the
>   school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
>  the Blind
>   and
>   Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
>  print
>   reader,
>   notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
>  room for
>   language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
>  process
>   provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
>  Improvement Act
>   of
>   2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
>  struggle with
>   his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
>  unable to
>   convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>   instruction.
>   She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
>  quantity
>   and
>   quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
>  school and
>   the
>   commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>   participate
>   in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the
> NFB
>   concluded
>   after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
>  extended
>   periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain,
> fatigue,
>  and loss
>   of
>   reading speed and comprehension.
>
>
>
>   In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
>  that the
>   school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
>  Braille."
>   She found that the school board and the commission had failed
> to
>  assess
>   Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
>  on reading
>   assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
>  alleged
>   failure
>   to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
>  unconvinced by
>   the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
>  technology
>   as
>   reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
>  "as
>   pointed
>   out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
>  does not
>   equate
>   to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
>  comprehending text
>   by
>   passively listening, even if one is following along with the
>  reading."
>   The
>   order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied
> on
>  them to
>   do,
>   which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
>  meaningful
>   educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>   James-Beavers
>   ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
>  for
>   forty-five
>   minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
>  compensatory
>   instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
>  provided with
>   Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
>  programs or
>   tutoring.
>
>
>
>   Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
>  Blind, said:
>   "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
>  and blind
>   adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
>  the
>   years,
>   the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
>  that blind
>   children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
>  instruction
>   when
>   it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
>  comprehensive
>   examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
>  independent judge
>   has
>   confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
>  officials
>   across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
>  to giving
>   blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
>  the vast
>   majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
>  National
>   Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
>  like the
>   Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
>  establishment
>   in
>   obtaining the equal education to which their children are
>  entitled and
>   which
>   they deserve."
>
>
>
>   Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled
> with
>  this
>   ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
>  prolonged battle
>   to
>   achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in
> hopes
>  that
>   other
>   parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
>  I thank
>   the
>   National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
>  experts
>   who
>   came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
>  publicly
>   advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>   instruction
>   for blind children."
>
>
>
>   The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
>  Krevor-Weisbaum
>   of
>   the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
>  Wesler of the
>   Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>
>
>
>   For more information about the National Federation of the
> Blind,
>  please
>   visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
>  about
>   Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
>  visit
>   www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   ###
>
>
>
>
>
>   About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
>   With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
>  Blind is
>   the
>   largest and most influential membership organization of blind
>  people in
>   the
>   United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through
>  advocacy,
>   education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
>  independence
>   and
>   self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness
> field
>  today and
>   the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB
> opened
>  the
>   National
>   Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
>  and
>   training
>   center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sun May 13 03:36:56 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 22:36:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
 ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <C99FDBBF2CCF46B8920976F5471FB009@OwnerPC>
References: <4faee2be.01dbe00a.1855.3ff1@mx.google.com>
	<6039B818-80F3-4D8E-BD3E-0E29D8BB1356@gmail.com>
	<C99FDBBF2CCF46B8920976F5471FB009@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOv2SW691vCNnOgXt9OhUza8tWUEM3_kksLYSL6L6WNhoQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Ashley.
Does Bookshare have your textbooks?
If so, you could probably download them on your Braille Note.
Just wondering.
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/12/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Mark,
> I just don't see how you learn without braille. Sure we all do it. I did it
>
> in high school because the volumes of braille would be impractical to take
> home. I had gobbs of reading for english, all those novels! I had too much
> reading in fact as they pile on homework in high school. However, by then I
>
> could read and write. I knew how to spell; I knew such things as what a
> paragraph is, what a sentence, where to place my periods and commas,
> although I'll admit I still don't know all comma rules,
> and I knew what was capitalized.  So what I'm saying for a young child is
> you have to have a foundation and see the written word, print or braille,
> and then sure once you have a foundation you can transfer to audio.
> But really, I fail to see how you learn without braille in the early grades
>
> as you are learning how to write.
> I do see your points; you can be successful with mostly auditory learning.
> Heck since junior high school when we got more homework, I did more and more
>
> auditorily, but I did have a foundation in reading and writing.
> That to me is the key.  I was also successful with more auditory learning.
> But I could not learn without braille to this day. Although I have no TVI to
>
> transcribe handouts in braille, no texts in braille, no research material in
>
> braille, I do use braille everyday in my own notes. I take notes with my
> braille note. I also have to ask for spellings so I can write foreign or
> proper names in print for my papers as when reading it I only hear it spoken
>
> and do not always know how to spell it. I write the correct spelling in
> braille. By writing in braille, it helps me learn and remember the
> spelling.
>
>
>
> As Josh  said "without braille, you fail."
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marc Workman
> Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 9:20 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
> ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> Chris,
>
> According to your definition, someone who needs glasses to read print is
> also illiterate because the glasses might break. Literacy is complicated. A
>
> Braille reader that loses both her hands doesn't suddenly become illiterate
>
> to my mind. Nor does a print reader become illiterate after becoming blind.
>
> The only thing I take issue with is the idea that Braille is essential for
> success. To put the point as Josh does in another message: "without Braille,
>
> you fail". Sorry, but this is factually incorrect. There are too many
> examples of successful blind people who cannot read Braille. I get why this
>
> is the message that is put forward. I imagine it's useful for motivating
> children to learn Braille, and it's no doubt politically expedient when
> advocating for more funding to teach Braille, both of which I understand and
>
> support, but I also suspect I'm not a total anomaly, and there are children
>
> wasting time learning Braille as I did. Or, to put it another way, there are
>
> children who might be forced unnecessarily to learn Braille if more people
> held the attitudes promoted in some of the messages I've read. Overall, more
>
> children would probably benefit than suffer, but some children certainly
> would suffer, in the sense that they would be dragged out of class and
> required to learn a skill that they will never really make use of.
>
> I probably should just stay quiet, as I believe Braille is a powerful tool,
>
> but it's difficult to sit back and say nothing when I hear propaganda-like
> slogans such as "without Braille, you fail".
>
> Best,
>
> Marc
> On 2012-05-12, at 3:22 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>
>> Good points, Marc.  What I mean by "illiterate" is simply that you can't
>> effectively and efficiently read written text independently.  Yes, you can
>>
>> use audio, but that technology might break...
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
>> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>>
>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>> NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>> I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced on them as
>>
>> a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight year old can muster.
>>
>> At several times throughout my primary and secondary education, I was made
>>
>> to learn and relearn Braille even though I didn't use it then and have
>> rarely used it since.
>>
>> Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to resist.
>> There are lots of things that children resist learning for one reason or
>> another (e.g.,second and third languages, musical instruments, dance), and
>>
>> all of these skills contribute to the production of a more well-rounded
>> and talented person.  Braille falls into this category for me.  Knowing it
>>
>> better would likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent
>>
>> in french, particularly in Canada.
>>
>> Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with statements
>>
>> like this one from Chris:
>>
>> "Without Braille, we can't read or write."
>>
>> And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others making the
>> same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is true, then this email
>>
>> and every essay I wrote in my undergrad, masters, and PhD programs were
>> written by someone who is illiterate.  Without being too immodest, I think
>>
>> I write better than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for
>> an illiterate person.
>>
>> Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want that for
>> their children should receive the instruction they desire.  Adults too
>> should receive the support to learn Braille if they so desire.  What I
>> think is worth pointing out is that Braille isn't necessary for blind
>> people to be able to read and write, Braille isn't necessary for blind
>> people to be successful, and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens
>>
>> of hours spent learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning
>> other skills.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Marc
>> On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>>
>> A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was actually
>> having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, who asked
>> me
>> whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of audio
>> technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that happening,
>>
>> I
>> wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? Because there are
>> enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent that from
>> happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary source of
>> reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in audio format,
>> although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes, isn't true
>> literacy.  Braille is our form of literacy.  Without Braille, we can't
>> read or
>> write.  This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or keep up
>> with
>> our sighted peers.  So, I think we definitely still need Braille because
>> it
>> is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should get rid
>> of
>> print too!
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Arielle Silverman
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>> It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to resolve.
>> What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, these battles
>> aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first place.
>> Parents
>> capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child doesn't need
>> Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy or legal
>> resources to stick it out.
>> The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the denial
>>
>> of
>> Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people entrusted to
>> promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a few weeks
>> ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her with Braille
>> copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.  Instead,
>> the
>> teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys representing
>> the characters in the stories.  I can understand using toys to substitute
>>
>> for
>> the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the stories,
>> why
>> not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I might add
>> that
>> in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed,
>> transcribing
>> a book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this case with the
>> Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's decision not
>>
>> to
>> provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to teach us literacy
>> don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified teacher
>> of
>> blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to hold their
>> students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of that
>> certificate.
>> I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to
>> bring
>> about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille today
>> and
>> in the future.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> How old is the child?
>> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
>> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
>> Any word on how old he is?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> I agree, how  sad.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Loren
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
>> Would
>> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
>> Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for
>> your child.
>>
>> Loren Wakefield
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
>> mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
>> Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>> To: Undisclosed recipients:
>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>
>>
>>
>> CONTACT:
>>
>> Chris Danielsen
>>
>> Director of Public Relations
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind
>>
>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>
>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>
>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
>> Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
>> and
>> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
>> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
>> 2011
>> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
>> Henry
>> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
>> and
>> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
>> assistance
>> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
>> comes
>> on the heels of
>>
>> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
>> Duncan%20re
>> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators urging the
>> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
>> need
>> Braille instruction receive it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
>> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
>> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
>> print
>> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods
>> of
>> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
>> their
>> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
>> the
>> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
>> and
>> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
>> reader,
>> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
>> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
>> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act
>> of
>> 2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle
>> with
>> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
>> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>> instruction.
>> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
>> and
>> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
>> the
>> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>> participate
>> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>> concluded
>> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
>> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss
>> of
>> reading speed and comprehension.
>>
>>
>>
>> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
>> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
>> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
>> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
>> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
>> failure
>> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
>> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
>> as
>> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
>> pointed
>> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
>> equate
>> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
>> by
>> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
>> The
>> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
>> do,
>> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.  meaningful
>> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>> James-Beavers
>> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
>> forty-five
>> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
>> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
>> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
>> tutoring.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind,
>> said:
>> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
>> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
>> years,
>> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
>> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
>> when
>> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
>> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
>> has
>> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
>> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
>> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
>> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
>> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
>> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
>> in
>> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
>> which
>> they deserve."
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
>> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle
>> to
>> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
>> other
>> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
>> the
>> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
>> who
>> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
>> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>> instruction
>> for blind children."
>>
>>
>>
>> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
>> of
>> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.  Wesler of
>> the
>> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>>
>>
>>
>> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
>> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
>> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
>> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ###
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>
>>
>>
>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
>> the
>> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
>> the
>> United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
>> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
>> and
>> self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness field today
>> and
>> the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened the
>> National
>> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
>> training
>> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>
>>
>>
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sun May 13 03:39:12 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 22:39:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of
 theBlindApplaudsNewJerseyRulingon Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <6061DF552864480E86DDA6F47A56F395@OwnerPC>
References: <4faf169d.2706650a.6b7b.1629@mx.google.com>
	<6061DF552864480E86DDA6F47A56F395@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvMvCXZgiLxk+q7==fKTNPcebEBH7=0LMCDNqpUFGJx_w@mail.gmail.com>

I still don't understand how they'll be able to do that.
I don't think there's a way to do it!
BTW, I read those articles, when I had the Braille Monitor.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/12/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Sophie, there is more to the story. read the BANA articles in the braille
> monitor. Basically they are revising the code to combine nemeth and literary
> braille. Again read the stuff about BANA, there are three articles there in
> the monitor for more info; it’s the braille authority of north america,
> bana.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sophie Trist
> Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 10:03 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of
> theBlindApplaudsNewJerseyRulingon Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> They're trying to get rid of Nemeth? But don't they realize that
> the mathematical system will be screwed without Nemeth?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 20:22:14 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of
> theBlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind
> Child
>
> Good grief!
> Since we're discussing Braille, what's the latest on one of our
> famous
> Braille codes, the Nemith code?
> Are they still trying to get rid of it?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/12/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> OMG, I'm so sorry, Chris. (Sophie smacks herself in the head
> with
> her cane.) That's the thing about e-mails. Please forgive me. :)
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 18:22:53 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
> BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind
> Child
>
> Sophie,
>
> I agree.  I took Marc's statement to mean that totally blind
> people could in fact read and write, just with audio technology
> (e.g.  text-to-speech software.) As I said in my previous email,
> my point was that we couldn't read or write independently (when
> I
> say "read," I mean reading
> written text, as sighted people read print,) without Braille.
> If
> a low-vision person has enough vision to read large print, of
> course, they could read the written word independently in that
> format.  But sometimes, even for low-vision people, reading
> large
> print becomes a tedious and difficult process, making it
> necessary for them to learn Braille in order for the process of
> reading and writing to be more efficient.
>
> By the way, I'm a guy! :)
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>
> Sent from my BrailleNote
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>   sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:06:25 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
> ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> Marc,
>
> I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't
> read or write,", she was speaking of the totally blind.  From
> your
> e-mail, I gather that you still have a good bit of my vision
> left.  I am completely blind, so there is no possible way that I
> could learn print.  Okay, I can learn to sign my name, but
> that's
> about it.  So for those of us who are totally blind or whose
> vision is not reliable enough for them to read print (sorry, but
> I think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we
> could not read or write.
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced
> on them as a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight
> year old can muster.  At several times throughout my primary and
> secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille
> even
> though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.
>
> Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to
> resist.  There are lots of things that children resist learning
> for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages,
> musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute
> to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person.
> Braille falls into this category for me.  Knowing it better
> would
> likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in
> french, particularly in Canada.
>
> Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with
> statements like this one from Chris:
>
>   "Without Braille, we can't read or write."
>
> And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others
> making the same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is
> true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad,
> masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is
> illiterate.  Without being too immodest, I think I write better
> than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an
> illiterate person.
>
> Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want
> that for their children should receive the instruction they
> desire.  Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille
> if
> they so desire.  What I think is worth pointing out is that
> Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and
> write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be
> successful,
> and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent
> learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other
> skills.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Marc
> On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>
>   A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was
> actually
>   having a similar conversation with my school librarian today,
> who asked me
>   whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of
> audio
>   technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that
> happening, I
>   wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? Because
> there are
>   enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent
> that from
>   happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary
> source of
>   reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in
> audio format,
>   although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes,
> isn't true
>   literacy.  Braille is our form of literacy.  Without Braille,
> we
> can't read or
>   write.  This means that we can't get a job, or go to college,
> or
> keep up with
>   our sighted peers.  So, I think we definitely still need
> Braille
> because it
>   is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we
> should
> get rid of
>   print too!
>
>   Chris
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>   Of Arielle Silverman
>   Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
>   To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
> Applauds
>   NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>   It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to
> resolve.
>   What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children,
> these battles
>   aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first
> place.  Parents
>   capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child
> doesn't need
>   Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy
> or legal
>   resources to stick it out.
>   The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of
> the denial of
>   Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
> entrusted to
>   promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a
> few weeks
>   ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her
> with Braille
>   copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.
> Instead, the
>   teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys
> representing
>   the characters in the stories.  I can understand using toys to
> substitute for
>   the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the
> stories, why
>   not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I
> might add that
>   in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed,
> transcribing
>   a book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this
> case
> with the
>   Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's
> decision not to
>   provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to teach us
> literacy
>   don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified
> teacher of
>   blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to
> hold their
>   students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of
> that
>   certificate.
>   I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful
> precedent to bring
>   about big changes for those parents who are fighting for
> Braille
> today and
>   in the future.
>   Arielle
>
>   On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>   How old is the child?
>   I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
>   Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
>   Any word on how old he is?
>   Thanks, Joshua
>
>   On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>   I agree, how  sad.
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: Loren
>   Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>   To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>   blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>   Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
> Applauds
>   NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>   It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this
> decision.
>   Would
>   anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
>   Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great
> thing for
>   your child.
>
>   Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>   Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>   Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>   To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind
> Students
>   mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>   Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> New
>   Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>
>
>   From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>   Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>   To: Undisclosed recipients:
>   Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
> Ruling on
>   Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>   FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
>   CONTACT:
>
>   Chris Danielsen
>
>   Director of Public Relations
>
>   National Federation of the Blind
>
>   (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
>   (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
>   <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
>   National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
> Braille
>   Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>   After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
> Instruction
>
>
>
>
>   Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
> administrative
>   and
>   legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
> Board of
>   Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
> number:
>   2011
>   17218) from an administrative law judge that their
> eleven-year-old son
>   Henry
>   "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
> reading
>   and
>   writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
> the
>   assistance
>   of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/
> (NFB),
>   comes
>   on the heels of
>
>
>
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
> Duncan%20re
>   %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators
> urging
> the
>   Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
> children who
>   need
>   Braille instruction receive it.
>
>
>
>   Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
> their son,
>   Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
> albinism and
>   nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
> enlarged
>   print
>   for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
> sustained periods
>   of
>   time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
> officials that
>   their
>   son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
> reading,
>   the
>   school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
> the Blind
>   and
>   Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
> print
>   reader,
>   notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
> room for
>   language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
> process
>   provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
> Improvement Act
>   of
>   2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
> struggle with
>   his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
> unable to
>   convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>   instruction.
>   She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
> quantity
>   and
>   quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
> school and
>   the
>   commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>   participate
>   in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the
> NFB
>   concluded
>   after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
> extended
>   periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain,
> fatigue,
> and loss
>   of
>   reading speed and comprehension.
>
>
>
>   In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
> that the
>   school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
> Braille."
>   She found that the school board and the commission had failed
> to
> assess
>   Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
> on reading
>   assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
> alleged
>   failure
>   to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
> unconvinced by
>   the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
> technology
>   as
>   reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
> "as
>   pointed
>   out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
> does not
>   equate
>   to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
> comprehending text
>   by
>   passively listening, even if one is following along with the
> reading."
>   The
>   order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied
> on
> them to
>   do,
>   which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
> meaningful
>   educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>   James-Beavers
>   ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
> for
>   forty-five
>   minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
> compensatory
>   instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
> provided with
>   Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
> programs or
>   tutoring.
>
>
>
>   Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
> Blind, said:
>   "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
> and blind
>   adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
> the
>   years,
>   the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
> that blind
>   children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
> instruction
>   when
>   it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
> comprehensive
>   examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
> independent judge
>   has
>   confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
> officials
>   across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
> to giving
>   blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
> the vast
>   majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
> National
>   Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
> like the
>   Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
> establishment
>   in
>   obtaining the equal education to which their children are
> entitled and
>   which
>   they deserve."
>
>
>
>   Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled
> with
> this
>   ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
> prolonged battle
>   to
>   achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in
> hopes
> that
>   other
>   parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
> I thank
>   the
>   National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
> experts
>   who
>   came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
> publicly
>   advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>   instruction
>   for blind children."
>
>
>
>   The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
> Krevor-Weisbaum
>   of
>   the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
> Wesler of the
>   Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>
>
>
>   For more information about the National Federation of the
> Blind,
> please
>   visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
> about
>   Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
> visit
>   www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   ###
>
>
>
>
>
>   About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
>   With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
> Blind is
>   the
>   largest and most influential membership organization of blind
> people in
>   the
>   United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through
> advocacy,
>   education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
> independence
>   and
>   self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness
> field
> today and
>   the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB
> opened
> the
>   National
>   Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
> and
>   training
>   center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun May 13 04:10:21 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 00:10:21 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
	BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <C99FDBBF2CCF46B8920976F5471FB009@OwnerPC>
References: <4faee2be.01dbe00a.1855.3ff1@mx.google.com><6039B818-80F3-4D8E-BD3E-0E29D8BB1356@gmail.com>
	<C99FDBBF2CCF46B8920976F5471FB009@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <02B8D2ECEE124AB2BDA675C9A3BE070A@OwnerPC>

PS, my first sentence should read "I don't see how you learned the 
foundations without braille."

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 11:32 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the 
BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Mark,
I just don't see how you learn without braille. Sure we all do it. I did it
in high school because the volumes of braille would be impractical to take
home. I had gobbs of reading for english, all those novels! I had too much
reading in fact as they pile on homework in high school. However, by then I
could read and write. I knew how to spell; I knew such things as what a
paragraph is, what a sentence, where to place my periods and commas,
although I'll admit I still don't know all comma rules,
and I knew what was capitalized.  So what I'm saying for a young child is
you have to have a foundation and see the written word, print or braille,
and then sure once you have a foundation you can transfer to audio.
But really, I fail to see how you learn without braille in the early grades
as you are learning how to write.
I do see your points; you can be successful with mostly auditory learning.
Heck since junior high school when we got more homework, I did more and more
auditorily, but I did have a foundation in reading and writing.
That to me is the key.  I was also successful with more auditory learning.
But I could not learn without braille to this day. Although I have no TVI to
transcribe handouts in braille, no texts in braille, no research material in
braille, I do use braille everyday in my own notes. I take notes with my
braille note. I also have to ask for spellings so I can write foreign or
proper names in print for my papers as when reading it I only hear it spoken
and do not always know how to spell it. I write the correct spelling in
braille. By writing in braille, it helps me learn and remember the spelling.



As Josh  said "without braille, you fail."
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Marc Workman
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 9:20 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Chris,

According to your definition, someone who needs glasses to read print is
also illiterate because the glasses might break. Literacy is complicated. A
Braille reader that loses both her hands doesn't suddenly become illiterate
to my mind. Nor does a print reader become illiterate after becoming blind.

The only thing I take issue with is the idea that Braille is essential for
success. To put the point as Josh does in another message: "without Braille,
you fail". Sorry, but this is factually incorrect. There are too many
examples of successful blind people who cannot read Braille. I get why this
is the message that is put forward. I imagine it's useful for motivating
children to learn Braille, and it's no doubt politically expedient when
advocating for more funding to teach Braille, both of which I understand and
support, but I also suspect I'm not a total anomaly, and there are children
wasting time learning Braille as I did. Or, to put it another way, there are
children who might be forced unnecessarily to learn Braille if more people
held the attitudes promoted in some of the messages I've read. Overall, more
children would probably benefit than suffer, but some children certainly
would suffer, in the sense that they would be dragged out of class and
required to learn a skill that they will never really make use of.

I probably should just stay quiet, as I believe Braille is a powerful tool,
but it's difficult to sit back and say nothing when I hear propaganda-like
slogans such as "without Braille, you fail".

Best,

Marc
On 2012-05-12, at 3:22 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

> Good points, Marc.  What I mean by "illiterate" is simply that you can't 
> effectively and efficiently read written text independently.  Yes, you can 
> use audio, but that technology might break...
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>
> Sent from my BrailleNote
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
> NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced on them as 
> a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight year old can muster. 
> At several times throughout my primary and secondary education, I was made 
> to learn and relearn Braille even though I didn't use it then and have 
> rarely used it since.
>
> Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to resist. There 
> are lots of things that children resist learning for one reason or another 
> (e.g.,second and third languages, musical instruments, dance), and all of 
> these skills contribute to the production of a more well-rounded and 
> talented person.  Braille falls into this category for me.  Knowing it 
> better would likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent 
> in french, particularly in Canada.
>
> Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with statements 
> like this one from Chris:
>
> "Without Braille, we can't read or write."
>
> And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others making the 
> same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is true, then this email 
> and every essay I wrote in my undergrad, masters, and PhD programs were 
> written by someone who is illiterate.  Without being too immodest, I think 
> I write better than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for 
> an illiterate person.
>
> Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want that for 
> their children should receive the instruction they desire.  Adults too 
> should receive the support to learn Braille if they so desire.  What I 
> think is worth pointing out is that Braille isn't necessary for blind 
> people to be able to read and write, Braille isn't necessary for blind 
> people to be successful, and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens 
> of hours spent learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning 
> other skills.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Marc
> On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>
> A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was actually
> having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, who asked me
> whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of audio
> technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that happening, 
> I
> wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? Because there are
> enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent that from
> happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary source of
> reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in audio format,
> although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes, isn't true
> literacy.  Braille is our form of literacy.  Without Braille, we can't 
> read or
> write.  This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or keep up 
> with
> our sighted peers.  So, I think we definitely still need Braille because 
> it
> is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should get rid 
> of
> print too!
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to resolve.
> What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, these battles
> aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first place. 
> Parents
> capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child doesn't need
> Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy or legal
> resources to stick it out.
> The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the denial 
> of
> Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people entrusted to
> promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a few weeks
> ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her with Braille
> copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.  Instead, 
> the
> teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys representing
> the characters in the stories.  I can understand using toys to substitute 
> for
> the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the stories, 
> why
> not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I might add 
> that
> in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed, 
> transcribing
> a book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this case with the
> Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's decision not 
> to
> provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to teach us literacy
> don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified teacher of
> blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to hold their
> students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of that
> certificate.
> I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to 
> bring
> about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille today and
> in the future.
> Arielle
>
> On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> How old is the child?
> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
> Any word on how old he is?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I agree, how  sad.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loren
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
> Would
> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
> Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for
> your child.
>
> Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
> Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
> To: Undisclosed recipients:
> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
> CONTACT:
>
> Chris Danielsen
>
> Director of Public Relations
>
> National Federation of the Blind
>
> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
> Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>
>
>
>
> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
> and
> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
> 2011
> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
> Henry
> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
> and
> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
> assistance
> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
> comes
> on the heels of
>
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
> Duncan%20re
> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators urging the
> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
> need
> Braille instruction receive it.
>
>
>
> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
> print
> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods
> of
> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
> their
> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
> the
> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
> and
> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
> reader,
> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act
> of
> 2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
> instruction.
> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
> and
> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
> the
> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
> participate
> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
> concluded
> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss
> of
> reading speed and comprehension.
>
>
>
> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
> failure
> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
> as
> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
> pointed
> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
> equate
> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
> by
> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
> The
> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
> do,
> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.  meaningful
> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
> James-Beavers
> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
> forty-five
> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
> tutoring.
>
>
>
> Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
> years,
> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
> when
> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
> has
> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
> in
> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
> which
> they deserve."
>
>
>
> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle
> to
> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
> other
> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
> the
> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
> who
> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
> instruction
> for blind children."
>
>
>
> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
> of
> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.  Wesler of the
> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>
>
>
> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ###
>
>
>
>
>
> About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
> the
> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
> the
> United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
> and
> self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
> the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened the
> National
> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
> training
> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From anthony at olivero.us  Sun May 13 04:27:39 2012
From: anthony at olivero.us (Tony Olivero)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2012 23:27:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?
In-Reply-To: <9D2B6640-A616-457A-99CB-F7143753446B@gmail.com>
References: <4fad99fe.21a5ec0a.4468.ffffc1aa@mx.google.com>
	<9D2B6640-A616-457A-99CB-F7143753446B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALQ-rrPhrg8=w_vw__09uueG5w6dM+hyOoFpxsiSsWyCtw=-hQ@mail.gmail.com>

Sophie,

In a way, your decision is almost comparing apples to oranges. Your
iPhone and Apex are both  portable computing solutions, where a
computer (whether you go with a mac or a Windows based system) is a
much more powerful package. If you are a student, you are likely to
want a platform capable of intensive word processing, data
calculation, and access to research databases, just to name a few
possibilities. While portable computing platforms have come a long way
in the past ten years, they still are not a replacement for the power
and functionality you gain with a computer.

It is and will likely remain my belief for some time, necessary to
have access to a desktop or notebook computer and use the portable
solution (iPhone/BraillNote in your case) for note taking, e-mail, and
other things that you need to do while mobile, and continue to use a
computer for intensive productivity tasks.

Tony

On 5/11/12, Valerie Gibson <valandkayla at gmail.com> wrote:
> depends on what you're after. my first thought was terminal, or an ssh
> client.
> apart from that, a larger storage space, and it's faster.
> I guess if you lumped the bn and iPhone into one ball, you'd have almost the
> same features of the mac, but maybe i'm forgetting something.
> oh, not sure if the bn can do ftp either.
> On May 11, 2012, at 5:59 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I currently use a braillenote apex and an iPhone 4S running IOS 5.1. I am
>> debating the issue of whether I should get a Mac, and your input would be
>> very helpufl in this decision, because I know a lot of y'all use a Mac
>> with Voiceover. My main question is, what abilities does a Mac have that
>> an iPhone and braillenote do not have?
>> Yours,
>> Sophie
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
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>
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>


From isaiah5719 at mchsi.com  Sun May 13 14:36:14 2012
From: isaiah5719 at mchsi.com (Loren)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 09:36:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
	Blind	ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <C99FDBBF2CCF46B8920976F5471FB009@OwnerPC>
References: <4faee2be.01dbe00a.1855.3ff1@mx.google.com>	<6039B818-80F3-4D8E-BD3E-0E29D8BB1356@gmail.com>
	<C99FDBBF2CCF46B8920976F5471FB009@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <003901cd3115$c03f4aa0$40bddfe0$@mchsi.com>

Agree totally.  



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 10:33 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Mark,
I just don't see how you learn without braille. Sure we all do it. I did it
in high school because the volumes of braille would be impractical to take
home. I had gobbs of reading for english, all those novels! I had too much
reading in fact as they pile on homework in high school. However, by then I
could read and write. I knew how to spell; I knew such things as what a
paragraph is, what a sentence, where to place my periods and commas,
although I'll admit I still don't know all comma rules, and I knew what was
capitalized.  So what I'm saying for a young child is you have to have a
foundation and see the written word, print or braille, and then sure once
you have a foundation you can transfer to audio.
But really, I fail to see how you learn without braille in the early grades
as you are learning how to write.
I do see your points; you can be successful with mostly auditory learning. 
Heck since junior high school when we got more homework, I did more and more
auditorily, but I did have a foundation in reading and writing.
That to me is the key.  I was also successful with more auditory learning. 
But I could not learn without braille to this day. Although I have no TVI to
transcribe handouts in braille, no texts in braille, no research material in
braille, I do use braille everyday in my own notes. I take notes with my
braille note. I also have to ask for spellings so I can write foreign or
proper names in print for my papers as when reading it I only hear it spoken
and do not always know how to spell it. I write the correct spelling in
braille. By writing in braille, it helps me learn and remember the spelling.



As Josh  said "without braille, you fail."
Ashley

-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Workman
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 9:20 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Chris,

According to your definition, someone who needs glasses to read print is
also illiterate because the glasses might break. Literacy is complicated. A
Braille reader that loses both her hands doesn't suddenly become illiterate
to my mind. Nor does a print reader become illiterate after becoming blind.

The only thing I take issue with is the idea that Braille is essential for
success. To put the point as Josh does in another message: "without Braille,
you fail". Sorry, but this is factually incorrect. There are too many
examples of successful blind people who cannot read Braille. I get why this
is the message that is put forward. I imagine it's useful for motivating
children to learn Braille, and it's no doubt politically expedient when
advocating for more funding to teach Braille, both of which I understand and
support, but I also suspect I'm not a total anomaly, and there are children
wasting time learning Braille as I did. Or, to put it another way, there are
children who might be forced unnecessarily to learn Braille if more people
held the attitudes promoted in some of the messages I've read. Overall, more
children would probably benefit than suffer, but some children certainly
would suffer, in the sense that they would be dragged out of class and
required to learn a skill that they will never really make use of.

I probably should just stay quiet, as I believe Braille is a powerful tool,
but it's difficult to sit back and say nothing when I hear propaganda-like
slogans such as "without Braille, you fail".

Best,

Marc
On 2012-05-12, at 3:22 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

> Good points, Marc.  What I mean by "illiterate" is simply that you 
> can't effectively and efficiently read written text independently.  
> Yes, you can use audio, but that technology might break...
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>
> Sent from my BrailleNote
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
> NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced on 
> them as a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight year old can
muster.
> At several times throughout my primary and secondary education, I was 
> made to learn and relearn Braille even though I didn't use it then and 
> have rarely used it since.
>
> Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to resist. 
> There are lots of things that children resist learning for one reason 
> or another (e.g.,second and third languages, musical instruments, 
> dance), and all of these skills contribute to the production of a more 
> well-rounded and talented person.  Braille falls into this category 
> for me.  Knowing it better would likely help me get a job, but so too 
> would being more fluent in french, particularly in Canada.
>
> Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with 
> statements like this one from Chris:
>
> "Without Braille, we can't read or write."
>
> And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others making 
> the same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is true, then 
> this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad, masters, and PhD 
> programs were written by someone who is illiterate.  Without being too 
> immodest, I think I write better than a majority of sighted people, 
> and that's not bad for an illiterate person.
>
> Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want that 
> for their children should receive the instruction they desire.  Adults 
> too should receive the support to learn Braille if they so desire.  
> What I think is worth pointing out is that Braille isn't necessary for 
> blind people to be able to read and write, Braille isn't necessary for 
> blind people to be successful, and in some cases, mine in particular, 
> the dozens of hours spent learning Braille may more effectively be 
> spent learning other skills.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Marc
> On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>
> A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was actually 
> having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, who 
> asked me whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of 
> audio technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that 
> happening, I wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? 
> Because there are enough blind people who are passionate about Braille 
> to prevent that from happening! Why would I want Braille to continue 
> as the primary source of reading and writing for the blind? Because 
> reading books in audio format, although it is a good method for 
> reading materials sometimes, isn't true literacy.  Braille is our form 
> of literacy.  Without Braille, we can't read or write.  This means 
> that we can't get a job, or go to college, or keep up with our sighted 
> peers.  So, I think we definitely still need Braille because it is our 
> form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should get rid of 
> print too!
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to resolve.
> What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, these 
> battles aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first
place.
> Parents
> capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child doesn't 
> need Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy or 
> legal resources to stick it out.
> The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the 
> denial of Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people 
> entrusted to promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just 
> read a few weeks ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to 
> provide her with Braille copies of the storybooks her classmates were 
> given in school.  Instead, the teacher thought it sufficient to give 
> the child stuffed toys representing the characters in the stories.  I 
> can understand using toys to substitute for the pictures, but if the 
> sighted kids are getting copies of the stories, why not give the exact 
> same content to the blind child as well? I might add that in today's 
> electronic world, and even before computers existed, transcribing a 
> book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this case with 
> the Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's 
> decision not to provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to 
> teach us literacy don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion 
> a certified teacher of blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or 
> who refuses to hold their students to competitive reading standards, 
> is not deserving of that certificate.
> I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to 
> bring about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille 
> today and in the future.
> Arielle
>
> On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> How old is the child?
> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
> Any word on how old he is?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I agree, how  sad.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loren
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ; 
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
> Would
> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
> Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing 
> for your child.
>
> Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students 
> mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New 
> Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
> To: Undisclosed recipients:
> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling 
> on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
>
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
> CONTACT:
>
> Chris Danielsen
>
> Director of Public Relations
>
> National Federation of the Blind
>
> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille 
> Instruction for Blind Child
>
>
> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>
>
>
>
> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative 
> and legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board 
> of Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket 
> number:
> 2011
> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son 
> Henry "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the 
> reading and writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained 
> with the assistance of the National Federation of the Blind 
> <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB), comes on the heels of
>
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
> Duncan%20re
> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators urging the 
> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children 
> who need Braille instruction receive it.
>
>
>
> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their 
> son, Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to 
> albinism and nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to 
> read enlarged print for short periods of time, but he is unable to 
> read for sustained periods of time.  Although Hank's parents continued 
> to tell school officials that their son was experiencing visual 
> fatigue and was having difficulty reading, the school board and its 
> consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind and Visually 
> Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print reader, 
> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for 
> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due 
> process provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education 
> Improvement Act of 2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank 
> routinely struggle with his homework, suffering from eye strain and 
> fatigue, but was unable to convince school officials or the CBVI that 
> Hank needed Braille instruction.
> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity 
> and quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the 
> school and the commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and 
> should participate in the "sighted world," experts hired by the 
> Millers and the NFB concluded after thorough assessment that Hank 
> could not read print for extended periods of time without eye strain, 
> neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss of reading speed and 
> comprehension.
>
>
>
> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that 
> the school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
Braille."
> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to 
> assess Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead 
> on reading assessments involving only brief passages, and citing 
> Hank's alleged failure to complain about struggling to read print.  
> The judge was unconvinced by the board and CBVI's contention that Hank 
> could rely on audio technology as reading demands increased through 
> his school years, noting that "as pointed out by all of petitioners' 
> well-qualified experts, listening does not equate to reading.  One 
> does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text by passively 
> listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
> The
> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them 
> to do, which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.  
> meaningful educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  
> Judge James-Beavers ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille 
> instruction for forty-five minutes, five days a week, and that the 
> school board provide compensatory instruction because of the three 
> years that Hank was not provided with Braille instruction, in the form 
> of intensive Braille summer programs or tutoring.
>
>
>
> Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and 
> blind adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over 
> the years, the National Federation of the Blind has consistently 
> argued that blind children are being improperly assessed and denied 
> Braille instruction when it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a 
> thorough and comprehensive examination of the evidence in Hank 
> Miller's case, an independent judge has confirmed what we always knew.  
> We hope that school and agency officials across the nation take note 
> of this landmark ruling and commit to giving blind children access to 
> Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast majority of children 
> who are blind or losing vision.  The National Federation of the Blind 
> will continue to stand with families like the Millers who find 
> themselves pitted against the educational establishment in obtaining 
> the equal education to which their children are entitled and which 
> they deserve."
>
>
>
> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this 
> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged 
> battle to achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in 
> hopes that other parents of blind children will not have to struggle 
> as we did.  I thank the National Federation of the Blind and all of 
> the individuals and experts who came forward to assist in this case.  
> I plan to strongly and publicly advocate with the National Federation 
> of the Blind for Braille instruction for blind children."
>
>
>
> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon 
> Krevor-Weisbaum of the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and 
> Jayne M.  Wesler of the Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>
>
>
> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, 
> please visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information 
> about Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please 
> visit www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ###
>
>
>
>
>
> About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is 
> the largest and most influential membership organization of blind 
> people in the United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives 
> through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs 
> encouraging independence and self-confidence.  It is the leading force 
> in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's blind.  In 
> January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the Blind 
> Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in the 
> United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From isaiah5719 at mchsi.com  Sun May 13 14:48:11 2012
From: isaiah5719 at mchsi.com (Loren)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 09:48:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
	Applauds	NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <6039B818-80F3-4D8E-BD3E-0E29D8BB1356@gmail.com>
References: <4faee2be.01dbe00a.1855.3ff1@mx.google.com>
	<6039B818-80F3-4D8E-BD3E-0E29D8BB1356@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <003a01cd3117$6b6e4510$424acf30$@mchsi.com>

Mark, Mark, Mark, Mark.  Even our sighted friends still use pen and pencil.
Maybe the truth is you are the one who has bought in to the propraganda.
Are you ashamed to admit you use braille?  Are you just as anti-cane or
anti-alternative techniques in general?  Did your sighted peers "have to
learn" print?  

I have to wonder where this is coming from?  Of course there are people who
have succeeded without knowing braille.  There are many pro athletes who
cannot really read their own contracts as well.  But is this what we really
want?  Please excuse the play on words, but to not use and promote the use
of braille is extremely short-sighted.  It may be easier in the here and
now; but, in the longrun it is extremely harmful.  

Loren 


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marc Workman
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 8:21 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Chris,

According to your definition, someone who needs glasses to read print is
also illiterate because the glasses might break. Literacy is complicated. A
Braille reader that loses both her hands doesn't suddenly become illiterate
to my mind. Nor does a print reader become illiterate after becoming blind.

The only thing I take issue with is the idea that Braille is essential for
success. To put the point as Josh does in another message: "without Braille,
you fail". Sorry, but this is factually incorrect. There are too many
examples of successful blind people who cannot read Braille. I get why this
is the message that is put forward. I imagine it's useful for motivating
children to learn Braille, and it's no doubt politically expedient when
advocating for more funding to teach Braille, both of which I understand and
support, but I also suspect I'm not a total anomaly, and there are children
wasting time learning Braille as I did. Or, to put it another way, there are
children who might be forced unnecessarily to learn Braille if more people
held the attitudes promoted in some of the messages I've read. Overall, more
children would probably benefit than suffer, but some children certainly
would suffer, in the sense that they would be dragged out of class and
required to learn a skill that they will never really make use of.

I probably should just stay quiet, as I believe Braille is a powerful tool,
but it's difficult to sit back and say nothing when I hear propaganda-like
slogans such as "without Braille, you fail".

Best,

Marc
On 2012-05-12, at 3:22 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

> Good points, Marc.  What I mean by "illiterate" is simply that you can't
effectively and efficiently read written text independently.  Yes, you can
use audio, but that technology might break...
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
> 2 Corinthians 5:7
> 
> Sent from my BrailleNote
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
> NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced on them as
a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight year old can muster.
At several times throughout my primary and secondary education, I was made
to learn and relearn Braille even though I didn't use it then and have
rarely used it since.
> 
> Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to resist.
There are lots of things that children resist learning for one reason or
another (e.g.,second and third languages, musical instruments, dance), and
all of these skills contribute to the production of a more well-rounded and
talented person.  Braille falls into this category for me.  Knowing it
better would likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in
french, particularly in Canada.
> 
> Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with statements
like this one from Chris:
> 
> "Without Braille, we can't read or write."
> 
> And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others making the
same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is true, then this email
and every essay I wrote in my undergrad, masters, and PhD programs were
written by someone who is illiterate.  Without being too immodest, I think I
write better than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an
illiterate person.
> 
> Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want that for
their children should receive the instruction they desire.  Adults too
should receive the support to learn Braille if they so desire.  What I think
is worth pointing out is that Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be
able to read and write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be
successful, and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent
learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other skills.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Marc
> On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
> 
> A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was actually 
> having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, who 
> asked me whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of 
> audio technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that 
> happening, I wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? 
> Because there are enough blind people who are passionate about Braille 
> to prevent that from happening! Why would I want Braille to continue 
> as the primary source of reading and writing for the blind? Because 
> reading books in audio format, although it is a good method for 
> reading materials sometimes, isn't true literacy.  Braille is our form 
> of literacy.  Without Braille, we can't read or write.  This means 
> that we can't get a job, or go to college, or keep up with our sighted 
> peers.  So, I think we definitely still need Braille because it is our 
> form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should get rid of print
too!
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to resolve.
> What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, these 
> battles aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first 
> place.  Parents capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their 
> child doesn't need Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the 
> time, energy or legal resources to stick it out.
> The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the 
> denial of Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people 
> entrusted to promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just 
> read a few weeks ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to 
> provide her with Braille copies of the storybooks her classmates were 
> given in school.  Instead, the teacher thought it sufficient to give 
> the child stuffed toys representing the characters in the stories.  I 
> can understand using toys to substitute for the pictures, but if the 
> sighted kids are getting copies of the stories, why not give the exact 
> same content to the blind child as well? I might add that in today's 
> electronic world, and even before computers existed, transcribing a 
> book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this case with 
> the Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's 
> decision not to provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to 
> teach us literacy don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion 
> a certified teacher of blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or 
> who refuses to hold their students to competitive reading standards, is
not deserving of that certificate.
> I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to 
> bring about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille 
> today and in the future.
> Arielle
> 
> On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> How old is the child?
> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
> Any word on how old he is?
> Thanks, Joshua
> 
> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I agree, how  sad.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loren
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ; 
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
> Would
> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
> Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing 
> for your child.
> 
> Loren Wakefield
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students 
> mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New 
> Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
> To: Undisclosed recipients:
> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling 
> on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> 
> 
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> 
> 
> 
> CONTACT:
> 
> Chris Danielsen
> 
> Director of Public Relations
> 
> National Federation of the Blind
> 
> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
> 
> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
> 
> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille 
> Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> 
> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative 
> and legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board 
> of Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket 
> number:
> 2011
> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son 
> Henry "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the 
> reading and writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained 
> with the assistance of the National Federation of the Blind 
> <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB), comes on the heels of
> 
> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
> Duncan%20re
> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators urging the 
> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children 
> who need Braille instruction receive it.
> 
> 
> 
> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their 
> son, Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to 
> albinism and nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to 
> read enlarged print for short periods of time, but he is unable to 
> read for sustained periods of time.  Although Hank's parents continued 
> to tell school officials that their son was experiencing visual 
> fatigue and was having difficulty reading, the school board and its 
> consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind and Visually 
> Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print reader, 
> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for 
> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due 
> process provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education 
> Improvement Act of 2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank 
> routinely struggle with his homework, suffering from eye strain and 
> fatigue, but was unable to convince school officials or the CBVI that 
> Hank needed Braille instruction.
> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity 
> and quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the 
> school and the commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and 
> should participate in the "sighted world," experts hired by the 
> Millers and the NFB concluded after thorough assessment that Hank 
> could not read print for extended periods of time without eye strain, 
> neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss of reading speed and 
> comprehension.
> 
> 
> 
> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that 
> the school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
Braille."
> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to 
> assess Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead 
> on reading assessments involving only brief passages, and citing 
> Hank's alleged failure to complain about struggling to read print.  
> The judge was unconvinced by the board and CBVI's contention that Hank 
> could rely on audio technology as reading demands increased through 
> his school years, noting that "as pointed out by all of petitioners' 
> well-qualified experts, listening does not equate to reading.  One 
> does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text by passively 
> listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
> The
> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them 
> to do, which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.  
> meaningful educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  
> Judge James-Beavers ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille 
> instruction for forty-five minutes, five days a week, and that the 
> school board provide compensatory instruction because of the three 
> years that Hank was not provided with Braille instruction, in the form 
> of intensive Braille summer programs or tutoring.
> 
> 
> 
> Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and 
> blind adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over 
> the years, the National Federation of the Blind has consistently 
> argued that blind children are being improperly assessed and denied 
> Braille instruction when it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a 
> thorough and comprehensive examination of the evidence in Hank 
> Miller's case, an independent judge has confirmed what we always knew.  
> We hope that school and agency officials across the nation take note 
> of this landmark ruling and commit to giving blind children access to 
> Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast majority of children 
> who are blind or losing vision.  The National Federation of the Blind 
> will continue to stand with families like the Millers who find 
> themselves pitted against the educational establishment in obtaining 
> the equal education to which their children are entitled and which 
> they deserve."
> 
> 
> 
> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this 
> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged 
> battle to achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in 
> hopes that other parents of blind children will not have to struggle 
> as we did.  I thank the National Federation of the Blind and all of 
> the individuals and experts who came forward to assist in this case.  
> I plan to strongly and publicly advocate with the National Federation 
> of the Blind for Braille instruction for blind children."
> 
> 
> 
> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
> of
> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.  Wesler of the
> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
> 
> 
> 
> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ###
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> About the National Federation of the Blind
> 
> 
> 
> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
> the
> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
> the
> United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
> and
> self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
> the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened the
> National
> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
> training
> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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> 
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> 
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From dandrews at visi.com  Sun May 13 15:16:28 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 10:16:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of theBlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling
 on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOti1RBzWK9ystw6cS14HJSWdvGwd1B5U6JAYfxEykfruA@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <4faf169d.2706650a.6b7b.1629@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOti1RBzWK9ystw6cS14HJSWdvGwd1B5U6JAYfxEykfruA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000060243575@mailfront4.g2host.com>

Joshua,  Don't go on about things that you don't know a lot 
about.  BANA is not trying to kill Nemeth.  They and much of the 
Braille community is looking for the best way to move Braille into a 
more computer-centric, and print centric world.  It is a 
simplification to say they are trying to knock off Nemeth.

Yes, Nemeth  may be replaced, it may be altered, nothing may be done, 
or something else -- it is to early to know.

Dave

At 09:07 PM 5/12/2012, you wrote:
>I know!
>Blame the Braille Authority of North America!
>Blessings, Joshua



From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Sun May 13 15:30:48 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 10:30:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?
Message-ID: <4fafd3d3.2706650a.6b7b.3469@mx.google.com>

Tony, could you please clarify what you mean when you say 
intensive productivity? I'm afraid I don't understand exactly 
what you're trying to say. I have found my apex able to handle 
all reading, writing, and editing assignments I've had in the 
past.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 23:27:39 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?

Sophie,

In a way, your decision is almost comparing apples to oranges. 
Your
iPhone and Apex are both  portable computing solutions, where a
computer (whether you go with a mac or a Windows based system) is 
a
much more powerful package. If you are a student, you are likely 
to
want a platform capable of intensive word processing, data
calculation, and access to research databases, just to name a few
possibilities. While portable computing platforms have come a 
long way
in the past ten years, they still are not a replacement for the 
power
and functionality you gain with a computer.

It is and will likely remain my belief for some time, necessary 
to
have access to a desktop or notebook computer and use the 
portable
solution (iPhone/BraillNote in your case) for note taking, 
e-mail, and
other things that you need to do while mobile, and continue to 
use a
computer for intensive productivity tasks.

Tony

On 5/11/12, Valerie Gibson <valandkayla at gmail.com> wrote:
 depends on what you're after. my first thought was terminal, or 
an ssh
 client.
 apart from that, a larger storage space, and it's faster.
 I guess if you lumped the bn and iPhone into one ball, you'd 
have almost the
 same features of the mac, but maybe i'm forgetting something.
 oh, not sure if the bn can do ftp either.
 On May 11, 2012, at 5:59 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:

 Dear All,

 I currently use a braillenote apex and an iPhone 4S running IOS 
5.1. I am
 debating the issue of whether I should get a Mac, and your input 
would be
 very helpufl in this decision, because I know a lot of y'all use 
a Mac
 with Voiceover. My main question is, what abilities does a Mac 
have that
 an iPhone and braillenote do not have?
 Yours,
 Sophie

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From mworkman.lists at gmail.com  Sun May 13 16:59:05 2012
From: mworkman.lists at gmail.com (Marc Workman)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 09:59:05 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
	ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <C99FDBBF2CCF46B8920976F5471FB009@OwnerPC>
References: <4faee2be.01dbe00a.1855.3ff1@mx.google.com>
	<6039B818-80F3-4D8E-BD3E-0E29D8BB1356@gmail.com>
	<C99FDBBF2CCF46B8920976F5471FB009@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <B5E577D0-2146-4E2E-B065-6D56AEFB0716@gmail.com>

Ashley,

I'm not sure why you interpret me as saying a blind child can learn to read using audio alone. If you could go back and pull out a specific sentence I wrote where I said this, that would be useful to me.

For the record, I think it's probably technically possible for a totally blind child to learn to read and write using only a screen reader. Grammar and spelling is about learning rules, and though print/Braille makes learning these rules exponentially easier, I suspect it is possible to do it without either. I want to emphasize that I'm only saying this may *technically* be possible. I'm sure it would be much harder, and I can't think of why it would ever be preferential to choose this path when either print or Braille is available. That said, my point has nothing to do with this, and I of course believe that blind children should be taught either print or Braille. Let me say this again since it seems to be causing the most confusion and misunderstanding: blind children should be taught either print or Braille. There is no doubt about this question.

I think a couple of much less clear cut questions are in which cases is Braille or print appropriate, and in which cases is Braille more of a hindrance than a help. This is what I'm gesturing at. Slogans like "without Braille, you fail", if taken literally, suggest that Braille is essential for success. Perhaps I shouldn't take it literally, but my concern is that so many seem to believe this as a fact, and I think that can lead to situations, like mine, where Braille is forced on a child even though the hundreds of hours spent learning Braille could more effectively have been spent learning some other skill. I don't know; I think it's at least something to think about.

Regards,

Marc
On 2012-05-12, at 8:32 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote:

> Mark,
> I just don't see how you learn without braille. Sure we all do it. I did it in high school because the volumes of braille would be impractical to take home. I had gobbs of reading for english, all those novels! I had too much reading in fact as they pile on homework in high school. However, by then I could read and write. I knew how to spell; I knew such things as what a paragraph is, what a sentence, where to place my periods and commas, although I'll admit I still don't know all comma rules,
> and I knew what was capitalized.  So what I'm saying for a young child is you have to have a foundation and see the written word, print or braille, and then sure once you have a foundation you can transfer to audio.
> But really, I fail to see how you learn without braille in the early grades as you are learning how to write.
> I do see your points; you can be successful with mostly auditory learning. Heck since junior high school when we got more homework, I did more and more auditorily, but I did have a foundation in reading and writing.
> That to me is the key.  I was also successful with more auditory learning. But I could not learn without braille to this day. Although I have no TVI to transcribe handouts in braille, no texts in braille, no research material in braille, I do use braille everyday in my own notes. I take notes with my braille note. I also have to ask for spellings so I can write foreign or proper names in print for my papers as when reading it I only hear it spoken and do not always know how to spell it. I write the correct spelling in braille. By writing in braille, it helps me learn and remember the spelling.
> 
> 
> 
> As Josh  said "without braille, you fail."
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Marc Workman
> Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 9:20 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
> 
> Chris,
> 
> According to your definition, someone who needs glasses to read print is also illiterate because the glasses might break. Literacy is complicated. A Braille reader that loses both her hands doesn't suddenly become illiterate to my mind. Nor does a print reader become illiterate after becoming blind.
> 
> The only thing I take issue with is the idea that Braille is essential for success. To put the point as Josh does in another message: "without Braille, you fail". Sorry, but this is factually incorrect. There are too many examples of successful blind people who cannot read Braille. I get why this is the message that is put forward. I imagine it's useful for motivating children to learn Braille, and it's no doubt politically expedient when advocating for more funding to teach Braille, both of which I understand and support, but I also suspect I'm not a total anomaly, and there are children wasting time learning Braille as I did. Or, to put it another way, there are children who might be forced unnecessarily to learn Braille if more people held the attitudes promoted in some of the messages I've read. Overall, more children would probably benefit than suffer, but some children certainly would suffer, in the sense that they would be dragged out of class and required to learn a skill that they will never really make use of.
> 
> I probably should just stay quiet, as I believe Braille is a powerful tool, but it's difficult to sit back and say nothing when I hear propaganda-like slogans such as "without Braille, you fail".
> 
> Best,
> 
> Marc
> On 2012-05-12, at 3:22 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
> 
>> Good points, Marc.  What I mean by "illiterate" is simply that you can't effectively and efficiently read written text independently.  Yes, you can use audio, but that technology might break...
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
>> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>> 
>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>> 
>> I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced on them as a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight year old can muster. At several times throughout my primary and secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille even though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.
>> 
>> Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to resist. There are lots of things that children resist learning for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages, musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person.  Braille falls into this category for me.  Knowing it better would likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in french, particularly in Canada.
>> 
>> Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with statements like this one from Chris:
>> 
>> "Without Braille, we can't read or write."
>> 
>> And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others making the same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad, masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is illiterate.  Without being too immodest, I think I write better than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an illiterate person.
>> 
>> Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want that for their children should receive the instruction they desire.  Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille if they so desire.  What I think is worth pointing out is that Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be successful, and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other skills.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Marc
>> On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>> 
>> A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was actually
>> having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, who asked me
>> whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of audio
>> technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that happening, I
>> wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? Because there are
>> enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent that from
>> happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary source of
>> reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in audio format,
>> although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes, isn't true
>> literacy.  Braille is our form of literacy.  Without Braille, we can't read or
>> write.  This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or keep up with
>> our sighted peers.  So, I think we definitely still need Braille because it
>> is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should get rid of
>> print too!
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Arielle Silverman
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>> 
>> It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to resolve.
>> What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, these battles
>> aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first place. Parents
>> capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child doesn't need
>> Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy or legal
>> resources to stick it out.
>> The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the denial of
>> Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people entrusted to
>> promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a few weeks
>> ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her with Braille
>> copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.  Instead, the
>> teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys representing
>> the characters in the stories.  I can understand using toys to substitute for
>> the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the stories, why
>> not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I might add that
>> in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed, transcribing
>> a book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this case with the
>> Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's decision not to
>> provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to teach us literacy
>> don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified teacher of
>> blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to hold their
>> students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of that
>> certificate.
>> I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to bring
>> about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille today and
>> in the future.
>> Arielle
>> 
>> On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> How old is the child?
>> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
>> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
>> Any word on how old he is?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>> 
>> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> I agree, how  sad.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Loren
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>> 
>> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
>> Would
>> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
>> Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for
>> your child.
>> 
>> Loren Wakefield
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
>> mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
>> Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>> To: Undisclosed recipients:
>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> CONTACT:
>> 
>> Chris Danielsen
>> 
>> Director of Public Relations
>> 
>> National Federation of the Blind
>> 
>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>> 
>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>> 
>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
>> Instruction for Blind Child
>> 
>> 
>> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
>> and
>> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
>> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
>> 2011
>> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
>> Henry
>> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
>> and
>> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
>> assistance
>> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
>> comes
>> on the heels of
>> 
>> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
>> Duncan%20re
>> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators urging the
>> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
>> need
>> Braille instruction receive it.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
>> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
>> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
>> print
>> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods
>> of
>> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
>> their
>> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
>> the
>> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
>> and
>> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
>> reader,
>> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
>> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
>> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act
>> of
>> 2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle with
>> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
>> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>> instruction.
>> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
>> and
>> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
>> the
>> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>> participate
>> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>> concluded
>> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
>> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss
>> of
>> reading speed and comprehension.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
>> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
>> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
>> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
>> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
>> failure
>> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
>> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
>> as
>> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
>> pointed
>> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
>> equate
>> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
>> by
>> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
>> The
>> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
>> do,
>> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.  meaningful
>> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>> James-Beavers
>> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
>> forty-five
>> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
>> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
>> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
>> tutoring.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, said:
>> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
>> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
>> years,
>> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
>> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
>> when
>> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
>> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
>> has
>> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
>> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
>> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
>> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
>> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
>> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
>> in
>> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
>> which
>> they deserve."
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
>> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle
>> to
>> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
>> other
>> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
>> the
>> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
>> who
>> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
>> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>> instruction
>> for blind children."
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
>> of
>> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.  Wesler of the
>> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
>> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
>> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
>> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ###
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
>> the
>> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
>> the
>> United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
>> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
>> and
>> self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness field today and
>> the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened the
>> National
>> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
>> training
>> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
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From marrie12 at gmail.com  Sun May 13 19:20:30 2012
From: marrie12 at gmail.com (Sarah Alawami)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 12:20:30 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] SOPA is coming back. Lobbyist pushing Congress and the
	President to re address SOPA
Message-ID: <4315CEB7-51D3-4AD3-A12F-D871A0F5FA81@gmail.com>

We must not let this pass! think about the consequences. If google has one site that is alleged, not proven, to have copyrighted material the government will have the ability to take google down. Link follows.


http://bit.ly/KA7DW1


From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sun May 13 19:30:25 2012
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 12:30:25 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] SOPA is coming back. Lobbyist pushing Congress and the
 President to re address SOPA
In-Reply-To: <4315CEB7-51D3-4AD3-A12F-D871A0F5FA81@gmail.com>
References: <4315CEB7-51D3-4AD3-A12F-D871A0F5FA81@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJOM=3mtuWme_irC+orMmu=WCSQOf_0ZL8XdnAF5DHAA2gpxw@mail.gmail.com>

What the... heck are these idiots doing? Seriously! Someone should
start a petition! Oh wait, haha, maybe I will.

On 5/13/12, Sarah Alawami <marrie12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> We must not let this pass! think about the consequences. If google has one
> site that is alleged, not proven, to have copyrighted material the
> government will have the ability to take google down. Link follows.
>
>
> http://bit.ly/KA7DW1
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Sent via gmail.com
Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
Skype: joshgregory93
 twitter: JoshG93


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun May 13 19:35:42 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 13:35:42 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] SOPA is coming back. Lobbyist pushing Congress and the
 President to re address SOPA
In-Reply-To: <CAMJOM=3mtuWme_irC+orMmu=WCSQOf_0ZL8XdnAF5DHAA2gpxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4315CEB7-51D3-4AD3-A12F-D871A0F5FA81@gmail.com>
	<CAMJOM=3mtuWme_irC+orMmu=WCSQOf_0ZL8XdnAF5DHAA2gpxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJCTBM-gG7BZb7EbstwrMy=TbShN6M=irbnrfGOn7pdHCA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all:
Does this issue have anything specifically to do with blindness? If
not, it needs to be taken off-list.
Best,
Arielle Silverman - former NABS listserv chair, board member, and president

On 5/13/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
> What the... heck are these idiots doing? Seriously! Someone should
> start a petition! Oh wait, haha, maybe I will.
>
> On 5/13/12, Sarah Alawami <marrie12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> We must not let this pass! think about the consequences. If google has
>> one
>> site that is alleged, not proven, to have copyrighted material the
>> government will have the ability to take google down. Link follows.
>>
>>
>> http://bit.ly/KA7DW1
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Sent via gmail.com
> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
> Skype: joshgregory93
>  twitter: JoshG93
>
> _______________________________________________
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From joshkart12 at gmail.com  Sun May 13 19:44:25 2012
From: joshkart12 at gmail.com (josh gregory)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 12:44:25 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] SOPA is coming back. Lobbyist pushing Congress and the
 President to re address SOPA
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJCTBM-gG7BZb7EbstwrMy=TbShN6M=irbnrfGOn7pdHCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4315CEB7-51D3-4AD3-A12F-D871A0F5FA81@gmail.com>
	<CAMJOM=3mtuWme_irC+orMmu=WCSQOf_0ZL8XdnAF5DHAA2gpxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCTBM-gG7BZb7EbstwrMy=TbShN6M=irbnrfGOn7pdHCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMJOM=0ZPHCvXAwG+ahjxFienQmnTuPoe99s6_Fc1VgpO+cZyQ@mail.gmail.com>

 Other than possibly limiting our access to blind-accessible material,
no, not really. Anyone that wants to talk about it can email me
offlist if they wish, I love talking about these kinds of things. :)
Thanks Arielle for the heads up!

On 5/13/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all:
> Does this issue have anything specifically to do with blindness? If
> not, it needs to be taken off-list.
> Best,
> Arielle Silverman - former NABS listserv chair, board member, and president
>
> On 5/13/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> What the... heck are these idiots doing? Seriously! Someone should
>> start a petition! Oh wait, haha, maybe I will.
>>
>> On 5/13/12, Sarah Alawami <marrie12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> We must not let this pass! think about the consequences. If google has
>>> one
>>> site that is alleged, not proven, to have copyrighted material the
>>> government will have the ability to take google down. Link follows.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://bit.ly/KA7DW1
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via gmail.com
>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>> Skype: joshgregory93
>>  twitter: JoshG93
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
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>
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>


-- 
Sent via gmail.com
Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
Skype: joshgregory93
 twitter: JoshG93


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun May 13 20:08:50 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 16:08:50 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of theBlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling
	on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <auto-000060243575@mailfront4.g2host.com>
References: <4faf169d.2706650a.6b7b.1629@mx.google.com><CAO83KOti1RBzWK9ystw6cS14HJSWdvGwd1B5U6JAYfxEykfruA@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000060243575@mailfront4.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <F4F89242A17146CFBFDDE5D3C1129D9B@OwnerPC>

right, to say nemeth is going away is a bit too much, its not true.

-----Original Message----- 
From: David Andrews
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 11:16 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of theBlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling 
on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Joshua,  Don't go on about things that you don't know a lot
about.  BANA is not trying to kill Nemeth.  They and much of the
Braille community is looking for the best way to move Braille into a
more computer-centric, and print centric world.  It is a
simplification to say they are trying to knock off Nemeth.

Yes, Nemeth  may be replaced, it may be altered, nothing may be done,
or something else -- it is to early to know.

Dave

At 09:07 PM 5/12/2012, you wrote:
>I know!
>Blame the Braille Authority of North America!
>Blessings, Joshua


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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun May 13 20:17:20 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 16:17:20 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
	BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
In-Reply-To: <B5E577D0-2146-4E2E-B065-6D56AEFB0716@gmail.com>
References: <4faee2be.01dbe00a.1855.3ff1@mx.google.com><6039B818-80F3-4D8E-BD3E-0E29D8BB1356@gmail.com><C99FDBBF2CCF46B8920976F5471FB009@OwnerPC>
	<B5E577D0-2146-4E2E-B065-6D56AEFB0716@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17545C148F7C4D7A839319C3FCB78464@OwnerPC>

Mark,
do you ever write braille then? if not you must be a really good auditory 
learner.
I suppose you write all your notes on a computer then using print 
conventions.
Since you did not like braille in school, did you still use large print?

Me, I used both. I used braille once I knew it efficiently and used print 
for math because they said it was a bit easier to  lay out spatial 
relationships which IMO is true. Lot easier to place numbers here and there 
on a page versus rolling a piece of braille paper up and down.

Anyway, if you made it with auditory learning in school and did well,  I 
suspect you are the exception.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Marc Workman
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 12:59 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the 
BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

Ashley,

I'm not sure why you interpret me as saying a blind child can learn to read 
using audio alone. If you could go back and pull out a specific sentence I 
wrote where I said this, that would be useful to me.

For the record, I think it's probably technically possible for a totally 
blind child to learn to read and write using only a screen reader. Grammar 
and spelling is about learning rules, and though print/Braille makes 
learning these rules exponentially easier, I suspect it is possible to do it 
without either. I want to emphasize that I'm only saying this may 
*technically* be possible. I'm sure it would be much harder, and I can't 
think of why it would ever be preferential to choose this path when either 
print or Braille is available. That said, my point has nothing to do with 
this, and I of course believe that blind children should be taught either 
print or Braille. Let me say this again since it seems to be causing the 
most confusion and misunderstanding: blind children should be taught either 
print or Braille. There is no doubt about this question.

I think a couple of much less clear cut questions are in which cases is 
Braille or print appropriate, and in which cases is Braille more of a 
hindrance than a help. This is what I'm gesturing at. Slogans like "without 
Braille, you fail", if taken literally, suggest that Braille is essential 
for success. Perhaps I shouldn't take it literally, but my concern is that 
so many seem to believe this as a fact, and I think that can lead to 
situations, like mine, where Braille is forced on a child even though the 
hundreds of hours spent learning Braille could more effectively have been 
spent learning some other skill. I don't know; I think it's at least 
something to think about.

Regards,

Marc
On 2012-05-12, at 8:32 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote:

> Mark,
> I just don't see how you learn without braille. Sure we all do it. I did 
> it in high school because the volumes of braille would be impractical to 
> take home. I had gobbs of reading for english, all those novels! I had too 
> much reading in fact as they pile on homework in high school. However, by 
> then I could read and write. I knew how to spell; I knew such things as 
> what a paragraph is, what a sentence, where to place my periods and 
> commas, although I'll admit I still don't know all comma rules,
> and I knew what was capitalized.  So what I'm saying for a young child is 
> you have to have a foundation and see the written word, print or braille, 
> and then sure once you have a foundation you can transfer to audio.
> But really, I fail to see how you learn without braille in the early 
> grades as you are learning how to write.
> I do see your points; you can be successful with mostly auditory learning. 
> Heck since junior high school when we got more homework, I did more and 
> more auditorily, but I did have a foundation in reading and writing.
> That to me is the key.  I was also successful with more auditory learning. 
> But I could not learn without braille to this day. Although I have no TVI 
> to transcribe handouts in braille, no texts in braille, no research 
> material in braille, I do use braille everyday in my own notes. I take 
> notes with my braille note. I also have to ask for spellings so I can 
> write foreign or proper names in print for my papers as when reading it I 
> only hear it spoken and do not always know how to spell it. I write the 
> correct spelling in braille. By writing in braille, it helps me learn and 
> remember the spelling.
>
>
>
> As Josh  said "without braille, you fail."
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Marc Workman
> Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 9:20 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind 
> ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>
> Chris,
>
> According to your definition, someone who needs glasses to read print is 
> also illiterate because the glasses might break. Literacy is complicated. 
> A Braille reader that loses both her hands doesn't suddenly become 
> illiterate to my mind. Nor does a print reader become illiterate after 
> becoming blind.
>
> The only thing I take issue with is the idea that Braille is essential for 
> success. To put the point as Josh does in another message: "without 
> Braille, you fail". Sorry, but this is factually incorrect. There are too 
> many examples of successful blind people who cannot read Braille. I get 
> why this is the message that is put forward. I imagine it's useful for 
> motivating children to learn Braille, and it's no doubt politically 
> expedient when advocating for more funding to teach Braille, both of which 
> I understand and support, but I also suspect I'm not a total anomaly, and 
> there are children wasting time learning Braille as I did. Or, to put it 
> another way, there are children who might be forced unnecessarily to learn 
> Braille if more people held the attitudes promoted in some of the messages 
> I've read. Overall, more children would probably benefit than suffer, but 
> some children certainly would suffer, in the sense that they would be 
> dragged out of class and required to learn a skill that they will never 
> really make use of.
>
> I probably should just stay quiet, as I believe Braille is a powerful 
> tool, but it's difficult to sit back and say nothing when I hear 
> propaganda-like slogans such as "without Braille, you fail".
>
> Best,
>
> Marc
> On 2012-05-12, at 3:22 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>
>> Good points, Marc.  What I mean by "illiterate" is simply that you can't 
>> effectively and efficiently read written text independently.  Yes, you 
>> can use audio, but that technology might break...
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
>> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>>
>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds 
>> NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>> I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced on them 
>> as a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight year old can 
>> muster. At several times throughout my primary and secondary education, I 
>> was made to learn and relearn Braille even though I didn't use it then 
>> and have rarely used it since.
>>
>> Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to resist. 
>> There are lots of things that children resist learning for one reason or 
>> another (e.g.,second and third languages, musical instruments, dance), 
>> and all of these skills contribute to the production of a more 
>> well-rounded and talented person.  Braille falls into this category for 
>> me.  Knowing it better would likely help me get a job, but so too would 
>> being more fluent in french, particularly in Canada.
>>
>> Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with statements 
>> like this one from Chris:
>>
>> "Without Braille, we can't read or write."
>>
>> And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others making the 
>> same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is true, then this email 
>> and every essay I wrote in my undergrad, masters, and PhD programs were 
>> written by someone who is illiterate.  Without being too immodest, I 
>> think I write better than a majority of sighted people, and that's not 
>> bad for an illiterate person.
>>
>> Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want that for 
>> their children should receive the instruction they desire.  Adults too 
>> should receive the support to learn Braille if they so desire.  What I 
>> think is worth pointing out is that Braille isn't necessary for blind 
>> people to be able to read and write, Braille isn't necessary for blind 
>> people to be successful, and in some cases, mine in particular, the 
>> dozens of hours spent learning Braille may more effectively be spent 
>> learning other skills.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Marc
>> On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:
>>
>> A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was actually
>> having a similar conversation with my school librarian today, who asked 
>> me
>> whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of audio
>> technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that happening, 
>> I
>> wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? Because there are
>> enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent that from
>> happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary source of
>> reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in audio format,
>> although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes, isn't true
>> literacy.  Braille is our form of literacy.  Without Braille, we can't 
>> read or
>> write.  This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, or keep up 
>> with
>> our sighted peers.  So, I think we definitely still need Braille because 
>> it
>> is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we should get rid 
>> of
>> print too!
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Arielle Silverman
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>> It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to resolve.
>> What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children, these battles
>> aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first place. 
>> Parents
>> capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child doesn't need
>> Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy or legal
>> resources to stick it out.
>> The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of the denial 
>> of
>> Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people entrusted to
>> promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a few weeks
>> ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her with Braille
>> copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.  Instead, 
>> the
>> teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys representing
>> the characters in the stories.  I can understand using toys to substitute 
>> for
>> the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the stories, 
>> why
>> not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I might add 
>> that
>> in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed, 
>> transcribing
>> a book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this case with the
>> Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's decision not 
>> to
>> provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to teach us literacy
>> don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified teacher 
>> of
>> blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to hold their
>> students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of that
>> certificate.
>> I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful precedent to 
>> bring
>> about big changes for those parents who are fighting for Braille today 
>> and
>> in the future.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> How old is the child?
>> I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
>> Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
>> Any word on how old he is?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> I agree, how  sad.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Loren
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
>> blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
>> NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>> It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this decision.
>> Would
>> anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
>> Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great thing for
>> your child.
>>
>> Loren Wakefield
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
>> To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind Students
>> mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New
>> Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
>> Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
>> To: Undisclosed recipients:
>> Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
>> Braille Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>>
>> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>>
>>
>>
>> CONTACT:
>>
>> Chris Danielsen
>>
>> Director of Public Relations
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind
>>
>> (410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>>
>> (410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>>
>> <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on Braille
>> Instruction for Blind Child
>>
>>
>> After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille Instruction
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year administrative
>> and
>> legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport Board of
>> Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket number:
>> 2011
>> 17218) from an administrative law judge that their eleven-year-old son
>> Henry
>> "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the reading
>> and
>> writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with the
>> assistance
>> of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/>  (NFB),
>> comes
>> on the heels of
>>
>> <http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
>> Duncan%20re
>> %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators urging the
>> Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind children who
>> need
>> Braille instruction receive it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of their son,
>> Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to albinism and
>> nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read enlarged
>> print
>> for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for sustained periods
>> of
>> time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school officials that
>> their
>> son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty reading,
>> the
>> school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for the Blind
>> and
>> Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient print
>> reader,
>> notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource room for
>> language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due process
>> provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Improvement Act
>> of
>> 2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely struggle 
>> with
>> his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was unable to
>> convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
>> instruction.
>> She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same quantity
>> and
>> quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the school and
>> the
>> commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
>> participate
>> in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the NFB
>> concluded
>> after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for extended
>> periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, fatigue, and loss
>> of
>> reading speed and comprehension.
>>
>>
>>
>> In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found that the
>> school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against Braille."
>> She found that the school board and the commission had failed to assess
>> Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead on reading
>> assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's alleged
>> failure
>> to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was unconvinced by
>> the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio technology
>> as
>> reading demands increased through his school years, noting that "as
>> pointed
>> out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening does not
>> equate
>> to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of comprehending text
>> by
>> passively listening, even if one is following along with the reading."
>> The
>> order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied on them to
>> do,
>> which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.  meaningful
>> educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
>> James-Beavers
>> ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction for
>> forty-five
>> minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide compensatory
>> instruction because of the three years that Hank was not provided with
>> Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer programs or
>> tutoring.
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, 
>> said:
>> "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children and blind
>> adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over the
>> years,
>> the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued that blind
>> children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille instruction
>> when
>> it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and comprehensive
>> examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an independent judge
>> has
>> confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency officials
>> across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit to giving
>> blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for the vast
>> majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The National
>> Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families like the
>> Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational establishment
>> in
>> obtaining the equal education to which their children are entitled and
>> which
>> they deserve."
>>
>>
>>
>> Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled with this
>> ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a prolonged battle
>> to
>> achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in hopes that
>> other
>> parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.  I thank
>> the
>> National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and experts
>> who
>> came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and publicly
>> advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
>> instruction
>> for blind children."
>>
>>
>>
>> The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon Krevor-Weisbaum
>> of
>> the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.  Wesler of 
>> the
>> Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.
>>
>>
>>
>> For more information about the National Federation of the Blind, please
>> visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information about
>> Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please visit
>> www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ###
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> About the National Federation of the Blind
>>
>>
>>
>> With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind is
>> the
>> largest and most influential membership organization of blind people in
>> the
>> United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through advocacy,
>> education, research, technology, and programs encouraging independence
>> and
>> self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness field today 
>> and
>> the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB opened the
>> National
>> Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and
>> training
>> center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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From anthony at olivero.us  Sun May 13 20:51:45 2012
From: anthony at olivero.us (Tony Olivero)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 15:51:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?
In-Reply-To: <4fafd3d3.2706650a.6b7b.3469@mx.google.com>
References: <4fafd3d3.2706650a.6b7b.3469@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CALQ-rrMSgdC00PUOKe85adOE6GPQLKEQk+N_dgKwQJxb=JDRZg@mail.gmail.com>

Sophie,

I'm not sure where you are in your educational career (highschool,
college, post grad, etc.), but based on the things I've had to do at
one time or another I would be asking yourself if you able to, on the
Apex:

* Add headings, font styles, footnotes, running headers and footers,
page numbers, tables of contents, and properly formatted bibliography
pages to a research paper;
* Access research databases including full-text PDF documents (even
those that are missing OCRed text);
* Use a spreadsheet or other statistical analysis package to
manipulate and analyze data;
* Access web pages using modern technologies such as AJAX (submitting
forms, and retrieving data without reloading the page), ARIA (adding
extra accessibility information to make web based applications
accessible), and dynamic HTML (showing and hiding sections of a web
page, again without reloading it); and
* Access any applications that may be required by your chosen course of study.

Not knowing what you are planning to do I can't really know for sure
if the Apex is the only solution that will work, but it has been my
experience that it is still necessary to have a computer even with a
notetaking solution to be truely competetive.

Tony

On 5/13/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> Tony, could you please clarify what you mean when you say
> intensive productivity? I'm afraid I don't understand exactly
> what you're trying to say. I have found my apex able to handle
> all reading, writing, and editing assignments I've had in the
> past.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 23:27:39 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?
>
> Sophie,
>
> In a way, your decision is almost comparing apples to oranges.
> Your
> iPhone and Apex are both  portable computing solutions, where a
> computer (whether you go with a mac or a Windows based system) is
> a
> much more powerful package. If you are a student, you are likely
> to
> want a platform capable of intensive word processing, data
> calculation, and access to research databases, just to name a few
> possibilities. While portable computing platforms have come a
> long way
> in the past ten years, they still are not a replacement for the
> power
> and functionality you gain with a computer.
>
> It is and will likely remain my belief for some time, necessary
> to
> have access to a desktop or notebook computer and use the
> portable
> solution (iPhone/BraillNote in your case) for note taking,
> e-mail, and
> other things that you need to do while mobile, and continue to
> use a
> computer for intensive productivity tasks.
>
> Tony
>
> On 5/11/12, Valerie Gibson <valandkayla at gmail.com> wrote:
>  depends on what you're after. my first thought was terminal, or
> an ssh
>  client.
>  apart from that, a larger storage space, and it's faster.
>  I guess if you lumped the bn and iPhone into one ball, you'd
> have almost the
>  same features of the mac, but maybe i'm forgetting something.
>  oh, not sure if the bn can do ftp either.
>  On May 11, 2012, at 5:59 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>
>  Dear All,
>
>  I currently use a braillenote apex and an iPhone 4S running IOS
> 5.1. I am
>  debating the issue of whether I should get a Mac, and your input
> would be
>  very helpufl in this decision, because I know a lot of y'all use
> a Mac
>  with Voiceover. My main question is, what abilities does a Mac
> have that
>  an iPhone and braillenote do not have?
>  Yours,
>  Sophie
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%4
> 0gmail.com
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40oli
> vero.us
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun May 13 20:53:44 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 16:53:44 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
Message-ID: <19E927DAA3B144D9AE038B72199A8EBD@OwnerPC>

Hi all, 

Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject line for this complex issue.

I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a general BA degree in liberal studies; kind of where you make your won program to complete a degree; I picked  my concentrations of social sciences and communication. Then after some training at our state center, I pursued a writing certificate at Nova, northern Virginia community college.  I’m finishing that next semester.  I wanted to add more to my resume and take classes specific to writing, so this was a good investment for me.  My career goal is broad; in this economy you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind or not.
I desire to work in something to help people. I’m thinking outreach, communication, customer service, or development.  I want to work with a team of people in an office.  

That is some background.  Now as we all know getting a job is tough with the down economy and most jobs are gotten via networking anyway.
I networked via a disability mentoring day for customs and border patrol; I was refered for a unpaid internship in section 508 compliance after following up with the disability program manager. I intend to get this internship once going through their rigorrous background check.

Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor.  I tell her I’m looking for work and explain barriers like lack of experience; visual tasks in entry level jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data entry etc, etc.
She schedules a meeting with me to talk over my case and I wonder if she is forcing a service on me for which it will do no good.

I then tell her about my internship to end the call. “well, you are good at finding internships, but lets look for a real job.” How insulting! After  I just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put down an internship where my foot will be in the door in the government  that may lead somewhere is insulting.

Have anyone of you worked with or  known people who worked with job placement specialists?  This counselor wants to refer me
to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless he actually takes me out to go in person to employers, its called cold calls. I asked her what he’d do for me and she was real vague.
“He’ll send you job leads.” she said.  She said something about job announcements.

I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I just am not sure I should work with him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a waste of time.  I’d rather have vr work with me on things like a good cover letter, interview skills, professional dos and don’ts, stuff like that. So, I’m wondering if any of you had this service and how it went.

Ashley

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun May 13 21:02:04 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 17:02:04 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?
In-Reply-To: <CALQ-rrMSgdC00PUOKe85adOE6GPQLKEQk+N_dgKwQJxb=JDRZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4fafd3d3.2706650a.6b7b.3469@mx.google.com>
	<CALQ-rrMSgdC00PUOKe85adOE6GPQLKEQk+N_dgKwQJxb=JDRZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7DD365522E24445E8706071497369858@OwnerPC>

Tony,
I agree. Do not give up a computer! Use it as a supplement! You need it for 
the very things Tony said.
Your notetaking device should be a supplement to a computer. You will also 
use a computer at work.

If you can keep an apex, I'd say keep it. It has a built in display and as 
good as iphones are getting a braille notetaker is still more accessible.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Tony Olivero
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 4:51 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?

Sophie,

I'm not sure where you are in your educational career (highschool,
college, post grad, etc.), but based on the things I've had to do at
one time or another I would be asking yourself if you able to, on the
Apex:

* Add headings, font styles, footnotes, running headers and footers,
page numbers, tables of contents, and properly formatted bibliography
pages to a research paper;
* Access research databases including full-text PDF documents (even
those that are missing OCRed text);
* Use a spreadsheet or other statistical analysis package to
manipulate and analyze data;
* Access web pages using modern technologies such as AJAX (submitting
forms, and retrieving data without reloading the page), ARIA (adding
extra accessibility information to make web based applications
accessible), and dynamic HTML (showing and hiding sections of a web
page, again without reloading it); and
* Access any applications that may be required by your chosen course of 
study.

Not knowing what you are planning to do I can't really know for sure
if the Apex is the only solution that will work, but it has been my
experience that it is still necessary to have a computer even with a
notetaking solution to be truely competetive.

Tony

On 5/13/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> Tony, could you please clarify what you mean when you say
> intensive productivity? I'm afraid I don't understand exactly
> what you're trying to say. I have found my apex able to handle
> all reading, writing, and editing assignments I've had in the
> past.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 23:27:39 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?
>
> Sophie,
>
> In a way, your decision is almost comparing apples to oranges.
> Your
> iPhone and Apex are both  portable computing solutions, where a
> computer (whether you go with a mac or a Windows based system) is
> a
> much more powerful package. If you are a student, you are likely
> to
> want a platform capable of intensive word processing, data
> calculation, and access to research databases, just to name a few
> possibilities. While portable computing platforms have come a
> long way
> in the past ten years, they still are not a replacement for the
> power
> and functionality you gain with a computer.
>
> It is and will likely remain my belief for some time, necessary
> to
> have access to a desktop or notebook computer and use the
> portable
> solution (iPhone/BraillNote in your case) for note taking,
> e-mail, and
> other things that you need to do while mobile, and continue to
> use a
> computer for intensive productivity tasks.
>
> Tony
>
> On 5/11/12, Valerie Gibson <valandkayla at gmail.com> wrote:
>  depends on what you're after. my first thought was terminal, or
> an ssh
>  client.
>  apart from that, a larger storage space, and it's faster.
>  I guess if you lumped the bn and iPhone into one ball, you'd
> have almost the
>  same features of the mac, but maybe i'm forgetting something.
>  oh, not sure if the bn can do ftp either.
>  On May 11, 2012, at 5:59 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>
>  Dear All,
>
>  I currently use a braillenote apex and an iPhone 4S running IOS
> 5.1. I am
>  debating the issue of whether I should get a Mac, and your input
> would be
>  very helpufl in this decision, because I know a lot of y'all use
> a Mac
>  with Voiceover. My main question is, what abilities does a Mac
> have that
>  an iPhone and braillenote do not have?
>  Yours,
>  Sophie
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%4
> 0gmail.com
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40oli
> vero.us
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
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> r%40gmail.com
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sun May 13 21:22:51 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 16:22:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
In-Reply-To: <19E927DAA3B144D9AE038B72199A8EBD@OwnerPC>
References: <19E927DAA3B144D9AE038B72199A8EBD@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOs6c0e9Qpt3S64DGS+Fin7UxsuD0+cdGm2cpL4OPmfO3w@mail.gmail.com>

LWSB was a job placement center.
You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS programs.
If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to send you to LWSB, or
a center like it!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject line for this complex issue.
>
> I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a general BA degree in liberal
> studies; kind of where you make your won program to complete a degree; I
> picked  my concentrations of social sciences and communication. Then after
> some training at our state center, I pursued a writing certificate at Nova,
> northern Virginia community college.  I’m finishing that next semester.  I
> wanted to add more to my resume and take classes specific to writing, so
> this was a good investment for me.  My career goal is broad; in this economy
> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind or not.
> I desire to work in something to help people. I’m thinking outreach,
> communication, customer service, or development.  I want to work with a team
> of people in an office.
>
> That is some background.  Now as we all know getting a job is tough with the
> down economy and most jobs are gotten via networking anyway.
> I networked via a disability mentoring day for customs and border patrol; I
> was refered for a unpaid internship in section 508 compliance after
> following up with the disability program manager. I intend to get this
> internship once going through their rigorrous background check.
>
> Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor.  I tell her I’m looking for work
> and explain barriers like lack of experience; visual tasks in entry level
> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data entry etc, etc.
> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over my case and I wonder if she is
> forcing a service on me for which it will do no good.
>
> I then tell her about my internship to end the call. “well, you are good at
> finding internships, but lets look for a real job.” How insulting! After  I
> just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put down an
> internship where my foot will be in the door in the government  that may
> lead somewhere is insulting.
>
> Have anyone of you worked with or  known people who worked with job
> placement specialists?  This counselor wants to refer me
> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless he actually takes me out to go
> in person to employers, its called cold calls. I asked her what he’d do for
> me and she was real vague.
> “He’ll send you job leads.” she said.  She said something about job
> announcements.
>
> I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I just am not sure I should work with
> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a waste of time.  I’d rather have
> vr work with me on things like a good cover letter, interview skills,
> professional dos and don’ts, stuff like that. So, I’m wondering if any of
> you had this service and how it went.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun May 13 21:50:47 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 17:50:47 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOs6c0e9Qpt3S64DGS+Fin7UxsuD0+cdGm2cpL4OPmfO3w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19E927DAA3B144D9AE038B72199A8EBD@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOs6c0e9Qpt3S64DGS+Fin7UxsuD0+cdGm2cpL4OPmfO3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EEB210E11A6A4F2A980C62AF26EF12BF@OwnerPC>

Hi Josh,
No, this is an employee of the agency; its  a job placement specialist, not 
a center.
My question is what do these people do? From the one blind client I spoke 
with, he said the specialist didn't do much of anything but told him to look 
online for job ads.
I'll revise my sentence  from my first email.

After  I just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put 
down an internship where my foot will be in the door in the government  that 
may lead somewhere is insulting.
Not clear here what insulted me.

After I just told her I looked and found few entry level jobs I qualified 
for, I told her I  had an internship coming where I could get my foot in the 
door in the government and this internship may lead to more permanent work, 
her comment about finding a real job insulted me.

I'll add its like all she cares about getting clients jobs, not good 
careers, to heck with what they want to do, just get them jobs and close 
their cases.
Not a good attitude.  Also, many college grads are doing just what I am--  
getting internships to hopefully lead to full time work. There was an 
article in the New york times about this.  Inexperienced young people cannot 
find work.  What world do vr counselors live in?
Well not the real world where people are struggling and worried about lay 
off and people are losing homes or working three part time jobs to pay for 
the essentials of life.
I'm trying to say its tough for anyone, and being
blind makes it a little harder. A vr counselor should support you by giving 
you the skills to look for work and help you network, not throwing you to 
some so called specialist who probably just finds any job and if you take it 
they can close your case. No, I'll be bold and stand up to them and go for 
the job that fits my skills.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:22 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support

LWSB was a job placement center.
You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS programs.
If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to send you to LWSB, or
a center like it!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject line for this complex issue.
>
> I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a general BA degree in liberal
> studies; kind of where you make your won program to complete a degree; I
> picked  my concentrations of social sciences and communication. Then after
> some training at our state center, I pursued a writing certificate at 
> Nova,
> northern Virginia community college.  I’m finishing that next semester.  I
> wanted to add more to my resume and take classes specific to writing, so
> this was a good investment for me.  My career goal is broad; in this 
> economy
> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind or not.
> I desire to work in something to help people. I’m thinking outreach,
> communication, customer service, or development.  I want to work with a 
> team
> of people in an office.
>
> That is some background.  Now as we all know getting a job is tough with 
> the
> down economy and most jobs are gotten via networking anyway.
> I networked via a disability mentoring day for customs and border patrol; 
> I
> was refered for a unpaid internship in section 508 compliance after
> following up with the disability program manager. I intend to get this
> internship once going through their rigorrous background check.
>
> Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor.  I tell her I’m looking for 
> work
> and explain barriers like lack of experience; visual tasks in entry level
> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data entry etc, etc.
> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over my case and I wonder if she 
> is
> forcing a service on me for which it will do no good.
>
> I then tell her about my internship to end the call. “well, you are good 
> at
> finding internships, but lets look for a real job.” How insulting! After 
> I
> just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put down an
> internship where my foot will be in the door in the government  that may
> lead somewhere is insulting.
>
> Have anyone of you worked with or  known people who worked with job
> placement specialists?  This counselor wants to refer me
> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless he actually takes me out to 
> go
> in person to employers, its called cold calls. I asked her what he’d do 
> for
> me and she was real vague.
> “He’ll send you job leads.” she said.  She said something about job
> announcements.
>
> I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I just am not sure I should work 
> with
> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a waste of time.  I’d rather 
> have
> vr work with me on things like a good cover letter, interview skills,
> professional dos and don’ts, stuff like that. So, I’m wondering if any of
> you had this service and how it went.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sun May 13 21:59:18 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 16:59:18 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
In-Reply-To: <EEB210E11A6A4F2A980C62AF26EF12BF@OwnerPC>
References: <19E927DAA3B144D9AE038B72199A8EBD@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOs6c0e9Qpt3S64DGS+Fin7UxsuD0+cdGm2cpL4OPmfO3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEB210E11A6A4F2A980C62AF26EF12BF@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvUMjTWYypsJ0radYTu1w99cfkwmrg8S5jQzV9Jxp3vJg@mail.gmail.com>

That's my problem with most of the VR counselors, that I've dealt with!
They don't really care about us!
They just want to close our cases, because we're just an unwanted
burden, to them!
I'm supporting you, and am hoping for the best.
BTW, we complain all the time about VR, but what are we doing to
improve the system?
How can we improve it?
Well, after I get my degree, there's a job opening up, in my state, to
work for VR!
If more of us, (clients,) started trying to get jobs, working for VR,
we could be the very ones, to improve the systems, and make them
better support our people!
As a VR counselor, I'd make sure that my clients were able to get the
jobs, that they want, if possible!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi Josh,
> No, this is an employee of the agency; its  a job placement specialist, not
>
> a center.
> My question is what do these people do? From the one blind client I spoke
> with, he said the specialist didn't do much of anything but told him to look
>
> online for job ads.
> I'll revise my sentence  from my first email.
>
> After  I just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put
> down an internship where my foot will be in the door in the government  that
>
> may lead somewhere is insulting.
> Not clear here what insulted me.
>
> After I just told her I looked and found few entry level jobs I qualified
> for, I told her I  had an internship coming where I could get my foot in the
>
> door in the government and this internship may lead to more permanent work,
>
> her comment about finding a real job insulted me.
>
> I'll add its like all she cares about getting clients jobs, not good
> careers, to heck with what they want to do, just get them jobs and close
> their cases.
> Not a good attitude.  Also, many college grads are doing just what I am--
> getting internships to hopefully lead to full time work. There was an
> article in the New york times about this.  Inexperienced young people cannot
>
> find work.  What world do vr counselors live in?
> Well not the real world where people are struggling and worried about lay
> off and people are losing homes or working three part time jobs to pay for
> the essentials of life.
> I'm trying to say its tough for anyone, and being
> blind makes it a little harder. A vr counselor should support you by giving
>
> you the skills to look for work and help you network, not throwing you to
> some so called specialist who probably just finds any job and if you take it
>
> they can close your case. No, I'll be bold and stand up to them and go for
> the job that fits my skills.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:22 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>
> LWSB was a job placement center.
> You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS programs.
> If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to send you to LWSB, or
> a center like it!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject line for this complex issue.
>>
>> I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a general BA degree in liberal
>> studies; kind of where you make your won program to complete a degree; I
>> picked  my concentrations of social sciences and communication. Then
>> after
>> some training at our state center, I pursued a writing certificate at
>> Nova,
>> northern Virginia community college.  I’m finishing that next semester.
>> I
>> wanted to add more to my resume and take classes specific to writing, so
>> this was a good investment for me.  My career goal is broad; in this
>> economy
>> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind or not.
>> I desire to work in something to help people. I’m thinking outreach,
>> communication, customer service, or development.  I want to work with a
>> team
>> of people in an office.
>>
>> That is some background.  Now as we all know getting a job is tough with
>> the
>> down economy and most jobs are gotten via networking anyway.
>> I networked via a disability mentoring day for customs and border patrol;
>>
>> I
>> was refered for a unpaid internship in section 508 compliance after
>> following up with the disability program manager. I intend to get this
>> internship once going through their rigorrous background check.
>>
>> Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor.  I tell her I’m looking for
>> work
>> and explain barriers like lack of experience; visual tasks in entry level
>> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data entry etc, etc.
>> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over my case and I wonder if she
>> is
>> forcing a service on me for which it will do no good.
>>
>> I then tell her about my internship to end the call. “well, you are good
>> at
>> finding internships, but lets look for a real job.” How insulting! After
>> I
>> just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put down an
>> internship where my foot will be in the door in the government  that may
>> lead somewhere is insulting.
>>
>> Have anyone of you worked with or  known people who worked with job
>> placement specialists?  This counselor wants to refer me
>> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless he actually takes me out to
>> go
>> in person to employers, its called cold calls. I asked her what he’d do
>> for
>> me and she was real vague.
>> “He’ll send you job leads.” she said.  She said something about job
>> announcements.
>>
>> I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I just am not sure I should work
>> with
>> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a waste of time.  I’d rather
>> have
>> vr work with me on things like a good cover letter, interview skills,
>> professional dos and don’ts, stuff like that. So, I’m wondering if any of
>> you had this service and how it went.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun May 13 23:19:12 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 17:19:12 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOvUMjTWYypsJ0radYTu1w99cfkwmrg8S5jQzV9Jxp3vJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <19E927DAA3B144D9AE038B72199A8EBD@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOs6c0e9Qpt3S64DGS+Fin7UxsuD0+cdGm2cpL4OPmfO3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEB210E11A6A4F2A980C62AF26EF12BF@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOvUMjTWYypsJ0radYTu1w99cfkwmrg8S5jQzV9Jxp3vJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBtA-9DBu=SyVzfE3_99PAWenrx5wxdb=byQQWTLS1XWw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley and all,
I don't have personal experience with a job placement specialist. I
suspect that some are very good and helpful and others not so much. It
probably doesn't hurt to meet a few times with the job specialist and
see what they have to offer while also pursuing your internship.
Internships are good opportunities to build networks and you should
never turn one down. But the more different leads you have, the
better, and it's possible the job specialist might know of some
networks you haven't thought about. So why not do both?
Arielle

On 5/13/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> That's my problem with most of the VR counselors, that I've dealt with!
> They don't really care about us!
> They just want to close our cases, because we're just an unwanted
> burden, to them!
> I'm supporting you, and am hoping for the best.
> BTW, we complain all the time about VR, but what are we doing to
> improve the system?
> How can we improve it?
> Well, after I get my degree, there's a job opening up, in my state, to
> work for VR!
> If more of us, (clients,) started trying to get jobs, working for VR,
> we could be the very ones, to improve the systems, and make them
> better support our people!
> As a VR counselor, I'd make sure that my clients were able to get the
> jobs, that they want, if possible!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi Josh,
>> No, this is an employee of the agency; its  a job placement specialist,
>> not
>>
>> a center.
>> My question is what do these people do? From the one blind client I spoke
>> with, he said the specialist didn't do much of anything but told him to
>> look
>>
>> online for job ads.
>> I'll revise my sentence  from my first email.
>>
>> After  I just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put
>> down an internship where my foot will be in the door in the government
>> that
>>
>> may lead somewhere is insulting.
>> Not clear here what insulted me.
>>
>> After I just told her I looked and found few entry level jobs I qualified
>> for, I told her I  had an internship coming where I could get my foot in
>> the
>>
>> door in the government and this internship may lead to more permanent
>> work,
>>
>> her comment about finding a real job insulted me.
>>
>> I'll add its like all she cares about getting clients jobs, not good
>> careers, to heck with what they want to do, just get them jobs and close
>> their cases.
>> Not a good attitude.  Also, many college grads are doing just what I am--
>> getting internships to hopefully lead to full time work. There was an
>> article in the New york times about this.  Inexperienced young people
>> cannot
>>
>> find work.  What world do vr counselors live in?
>> Well not the real world where people are struggling and worried about lay
>> off and people are losing homes or working three part time jobs to pay
>> for
>> the essentials of life.
>> I'm trying to say its tough for anyone, and being
>> blind makes it a little harder. A vr counselor should support you by
>> giving
>>
>> you the skills to look for work and help you network, not throwing you to
>> some so called specialist who probably just finds any job and if you take
>> it
>>
>> they can close your case. No, I'll be bold and stand up to them and go
>> for
>> the job that fits my skills.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:22 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>>
>> LWSB was a job placement center.
>> You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS programs.
>> If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to send you to LWSB, or
>> a center like it!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject line for this complex issue.
>>>
>>> I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a general BA degree in liberal
>>> studies; kind of where you make your won program to complete a degree; I
>>> picked  my concentrations of social sciences and communication. Then
>>> after
>>> some training at our state center, I pursued a writing certificate at
>>> Nova,
>>> northern Virginia community college.  I’m finishing that next semester.
>>> I
>>> wanted to add more to my resume and take classes specific to writing, so
>>> this was a good investment for me.  My career goal is broad; in this
>>> economy
>>> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind or not.
>>> I desire to work in something to help people. I’m thinking outreach,
>>> communication, customer service, or development.  I want to work with a
>>> team
>>> of people in an office.
>>>
>>> That is some background.  Now as we all know getting a job is tough with
>>> the
>>> down economy and most jobs are gotten via networking anyway.
>>> I networked via a disability mentoring day for customs and border
>>> patrol;
>>>
>>> I
>>> was refered for a unpaid internship in section 508 compliance after
>>> following up with the disability program manager. I intend to get this
>>> internship once going through their rigorrous background check.
>>>
>>> Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor.  I tell her I’m looking for
>>> work
>>> and explain barriers like lack of experience; visual tasks in entry
>>> level
>>> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data entry etc, etc.
>>> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over my case and I wonder if she
>>> is
>>> forcing a service on me for which it will do no good.
>>>
>>> I then tell her about my internship to end the call. “well, you are good
>>> at
>>> finding internships, but lets look for a real job.” How insulting! After
>>> I
>>> just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put down an
>>> internship where my foot will be in the door in the government  that may
>>> lead somewhere is insulting.
>>>
>>> Have anyone of you worked with or  known people who worked with job
>>> placement specialists?  This counselor wants to refer me
>>> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless he actually takes me out to
>>> go
>>> in person to employers, its called cold calls. I asked her what he’d do
>>> for
>>> me and she was real vague.
>>> “He’ll send you job leads.” she said.  She said something about job
>>> announcements.
>>>
>>> I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I just am not sure I should work
>>> with
>>> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a waste of time.  I’d rather
>>> have
>>> vr work with me on things like a good cover letter, interview skills,
>>> professional dos and don’ts, stuff like that. So, I’m wondering if any
>>> of
>>> you had this service and how it went.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Mon May 14 00:57:38 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 19:57:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?
In-Reply-To: <CALQ-rrMSgdC00PUOKe85adOE6GPQLKEQk+N_dgKwQJxb=JDRZg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4fafd3d3.2706650a.6b7b.3469@mx.google.com>
	<CALQ-rrMSgdC00PUOKe85adOE6GPQLKEQk+N_dgKwQJxb=JDRZg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9895F222-E985-4631-AFFC-D7E9EFE49EA3@gmail.com>

You bring up good points. i am in high school. if i may inquire, what is your major? because i've never heard ( of many of the things you mentioned.  if it is something techy, i unerstand why a computer is necessary. 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 13, 2012, at 3:51 PM, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:

> Sophie,
> 
> I'm not sure where you are in your educational career (highschool,
> college, post grad, etc.), but based on the things I've had to do at
> one time or another I would be asking yourself if you able to, on the
> Apex:
> 
> * Add headings, font styles, footnotes, running headers and footers,
> page numbers, tables of contents, and properly formatted bibliography
> pages to a research paper;
> * Access research databases including full-text PDF documents (even
> those that are missing OCRed text);
> * Use a spreadsheet or other statistical analysis package to
> manipulate and analyze data;
> * Access web pages using modern technologies such as AJAX (submitting
> forms, and retrieving data without reloading the page), ARIA (adding
> extra accessibility information to make web based applications
> accessible), and dynamic HTML (showing and hiding sections of a web
> page, again without reloading it); and
> * Access any applications that may be required by your chosen course of study.
> 
> Not knowing what you are planning to do I can't really know for sure
> if the Apex is the only solution that will work, but it has been my
> experience that it is still necessary to have a computer even with a
> notetaking solution to be truely competetive.
> 
> Tony
> 
> On 5/13/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tony, could you please clarify what you mean when you say
>> intensive productivity? I'm afraid I don't understand exactly
>> what you're trying to say. I have found my apex able to handle
>> all reading, writing, and editing assignments I've had in the
>> past.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 23:27:39 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?
>> 
>> Sophie,
>> 
>> In a way, your decision is almost comparing apples to oranges.
>> Your
>> iPhone and Apex are both  portable computing solutions, where a
>> computer (whether you go with a mac or a Windows based system) is
>> a
>> much more powerful package. If you are a student, you are likely
>> to
>> want a platform capable of intensive word processing, data
>> calculation, and access to research databases, just to name a few
>> possibilities. While portable computing platforms have come a
>> long way
>> in the past ten years, they still are not a replacement for the
>> power
>> and functionality you gain with a computer.
>> 
>> It is and will likely remain my belief for some time, necessary
>> to
>> have access to a desktop or notebook computer and use the
>> portable
>> solution (iPhone/BraillNote in your case) for note taking,
>> e-mail, and
>> other things that you need to do while mobile, and continue to
>> use a
>> computer for intensive productivity tasks.
>> 
>> Tony
>> 
>> On 5/11/12, Valerie Gibson <valandkayla at gmail.com> wrote:
>> depends on what you're after. my first thought was terminal, or
>> an ssh
>> client.
>> apart from that, a larger storage space, and it's faster.
>> I guess if you lumped the bn and iPhone into one ball, you'd
>> have almost the
>> same features of the mac, but maybe i'm forgetting something.
>> oh, not sure if the bn can do ftp either.
>> On May 11, 2012, at 5:59 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>> 
>> Dear All,
>> 
>> I currently use a braillenote apex and an iPhone 4S running IOS
>> 5.1. I am
>> debating the issue of whether I should get a Mac, and your input
>> would be
>> very helpufl in this decision, because I know a lot of y'all use
>> a Mac
>> with Voiceover. My main question is, what abilities does a Mac
>> have that
>> an iPhone and braillenote do not have?
>> Yours,
>> Sophie
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> nabs-l:
>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%4
>> 0gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> nabs-l:
>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40oli
>> vero.us
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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> 
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From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Mon May 14 01:17:37 2012
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 22:17:37 -0300
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
In-Reply-To: <EEB210E11A6A4F2A980C62AF26EF12BF@OwnerPC>
References: <19E927DAA3B144D9AE038B72199A8EBD@OwnerPC><CAO83KOs6c0e9Qpt3S64DGS+Fin7UxsuD0+cdGm2cpL4OPmfO3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEB210E11A6A4F2A980C62AF26EF12BF@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <9BC3F4EF4BC74FD1B418437140D7FE59@userPC>

Ashley,
My counselor wanted to do just that with me but I went on my own found a job
and am working.
I found out about the job I have now from two friends who saw the listing
for the job and told me about it. I wasn't about to sit and wait around for
my counselor to help me or send me to a job coach who was only going to do
the thing you speak of.
Rania,

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 6:51 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support

Hi Josh,
No, this is an employee of the agency; its  a job placement specialist, not 
a center.
My question is what do these people do? From the one blind client I spoke 
with, he said the specialist didn't do much of anything but told him to look

online for job ads.
I'll revise my sentence  from my first email.

After  I just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put 
down an internship where my foot will be in the door in the government  that

may lead somewhere is insulting.
Not clear here what insulted me.

After I just told her I looked and found few entry level jobs I qualified 
for, I told her I  had an internship coming where I could get my foot in the

door in the government and this internship may lead to more permanent work, 
her comment about finding a real job insulted me.

I'll add its like all she cares about getting clients jobs, not good 
careers, to heck with what they want to do, just get them jobs and close 
their cases.
Not a good attitude.  Also, many college grads are doing just what I am--  
getting internships to hopefully lead to full time work. There was an 
article in the New york times about this.  Inexperienced young people cannot

find work.  What world do vr counselors live in?
Well not the real world where people are struggling and worried about lay 
off and people are losing homes or working three part time jobs to pay for 
the essentials of life.
I'm trying to say its tough for anyone, and being
blind makes it a little harder. A vr counselor should support you by giving 
you the skills to look for work and help you network, not throwing you to 
some so called specialist who probably just finds any job and if you take it

they can close your case. No, I'll be bold and stand up to them and go for 
the job that fits my skills.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:22 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support

LWSB was a job placement center.
You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS programs.
If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to send you to LWSB, or
a center like it!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Well, I couldn't think of a good subject line for this complex issue.
>
> I'll say that I graduated in 2009 with a general BA degree in liberal
> studies; kind of where you make your won program to complete a degree; I
> picked  my concentrations of social sciences and communication. Then after
> some training at our state center, I pursued a writing certificate at 
> Nova,
> northern Virginia community college.  I'm finishing that next semester.  I
> wanted to add more to my resume and take classes specific to writing, so
> this was a good investment for me.  My career goal is broad; in this 
> economy
> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind or not.
> I desire to work in something to help people. I'm thinking outreach,
> communication, customer service, or development.  I want to work with a 
> team
> of people in an office.
>
> That is some background.  Now as we all know getting a job is tough with 
> the
> down economy and most jobs are gotten via networking anyway.
> I networked via a disability mentoring day for customs and border patrol; 
> I
> was refered for a unpaid internship in section 508 compliance after
> following up with the disability program manager. I intend to get this
> internship once going through their rigorrous background check.
>
> Well, I'm frustrated with my vr counselor.  I tell her I'm looking for 
> work
> and explain barriers like lack of experience; visual tasks in entry level
> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data entry etc, etc.
> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over my case and I wonder if she 
> is
> forcing a service on me for which it will do no good.
>
> I then tell her about my internship to end the call. "well, you are good 
> at
> finding internships, but lets look for a real job." How insulting! After 
> I
> just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put down an
> internship where my foot will be in the door in the government  that may
> lead somewhere is insulting.
>
> Have anyone of you worked with or  known people who worked with job
> placement specialists?  This counselor wants to refer me
> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless he actually takes me out to 
> go
> in person to employers, its called cold calls. I asked her what he'd do 
> for
> me and she was real vague.
> "He'll send you job leads." she said.  She said something about job
> announcements.
>
> I'll get more info in the meeting. But I just am not sure I should work 
> with
> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a waste of time.  I'd rather 
> have
> vr work with me on things like a good cover letter, interview skills,
> professional dos and don'ts, stuff like that. So, I'm wondering if any of
> you had this service and how it went.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
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ccua.edu
>

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net 


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m



From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Mon May 14 01:37:53 2012
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 18:37:53 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?
In-Reply-To: <9895F222-E985-4631-AFFC-D7E9EFE49EA3@gmail.com>
References: <4fafd3d3.2706650a.6b7b.3469@mx.google.com><CALQ-rrMSgdC00PUOKe85adOE6GPQLKEQk+N_dgKwQJxb=JDRZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<9895F222-E985-4631-AFFC-D7E9EFE49EA3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FCAE8210850845FE9E5056B23CCEB493@HUMBERTOAVILA>

Hello tony, and all,

Given the pace at which science and technology is progressing these days,
you will see that in the near future, all those things that you mentioned
will be possible to do on a  smartphone such as the iPhone or other I
device. I know this because I am a big believer of the technology world. I
am not a tech profit, nor I am a PH.D. in technology, nor I know that this
will happen for reals. However, pretty much, by the year of 2020, even the
thinnest cellphone, smart or not, will be able to analyze and retrieve the
slickest of databases and let you work with the most powerful spreadsheets,
presentations, documents, and even media, just like a desktop or laptop
computer today. And, note takers will not be behind, or even if they are,
the iPhone with braille display will be the solution, and the hope will
still run about making other devices accessible. Hopefully we'll have better
laws by then regarding blindness and accessibility LOL. Any thoughts?

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Sophie Trist
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:58 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?

You bring up good points. i am in high school. if i may inquire, what is
your major? because i've never heard ( of many of the things you mentioned.
if it is something techy, i unerstand why a computer is necessary. 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 13, 2012, at 3:51 PM, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:

> Sophie,
> 
> I'm not sure where you are in your educational career (highschool,
> college, post grad, etc.), but based on the things I've had to do at
> one time or another I would be asking yourself if you able to, on the
> Apex:
> 
> * Add headings, font styles, footnotes, running headers and footers,
> page numbers, tables of contents, and properly formatted bibliography
> pages to a research paper;
> * Access research databases including full-text PDF documents (even
> those that are missing OCRed text);
> * Use a spreadsheet or other statistical analysis package to
> manipulate and analyze data;
> * Access web pages using modern technologies such as AJAX (submitting
> forms, and retrieving data without reloading the page), ARIA (adding
> extra accessibility information to make web based applications
> accessible), and dynamic HTML (showing and hiding sections of a web
> page, again without reloading it); and
> * Access any applications that may be required by your chosen course of
study.
> 
> Not knowing what you are planning to do I can't really know for sure
> if the Apex is the only solution that will work, but it has been my
> experience that it is still necessary to have a computer even with a
> notetaking solution to be truely competetive.
> 
> Tony
> 
> On 5/13/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tony, could you please clarify what you mean when you say
>> intensive productivity? I'm afraid I don't understand exactly
>> what you're trying to say. I have found my apex able to handle
>> all reading, writing, and editing assignments I've had in the
>> past.
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 23:27:39 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?
>> 
>> Sophie,
>> 
>> In a way, your decision is almost comparing apples to oranges.
>> Your
>> iPhone and Apex are both  portable computing solutions, where a
>> computer (whether you go with a mac or a Windows based system) is
>> a
>> much more powerful package. If you are a student, you are likely
>> to
>> want a platform capable of intensive word processing, data
>> calculation, and access to research databases, just to name a few
>> possibilities. While portable computing platforms have come a
>> long way
>> in the past ten years, they still are not a replacement for the
>> power
>> and functionality you gain with a computer.
>> 
>> It is and will likely remain my belief for some time, necessary
>> to
>> have access to a desktop or notebook computer and use the
>> portable
>> solution (iPhone/BraillNote in your case) for note taking,
>> e-mail, and
>> other things that you need to do while mobile, and continue to
>> use a
>> computer for intensive productivity tasks.
>> 
>> Tony
>> 
>> On 5/11/12, Valerie Gibson <valandkayla at gmail.com> wrote:
>> depends on what you're after. my first thought was terminal, or
>> an ssh
>> client.
>> apart from that, a larger storage space, and it's faster.
>> I guess if you lumped the bn and iPhone into one ball, you'd
>> have almost the
>> same features of the mac, but maybe i'm forgetting something.
>> oh, not sure if the bn can do ftp either.
>> On May 11, 2012, at 5:59 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>> 
>> Dear All,
>> 
>> I currently use a braillenote apex and an iPhone 4S running IOS
>> 5.1. I am
>> debating the issue of whether I should get a Mac, and your input
>> would be
>> very helpufl in this decision, because I know a lot of y'all use
>> a Mac
>> with Voiceover. My main question is, what abilities does a Mac
>> have that
>> an iPhone and braillenote do not have?
>> Yours,
>> Sophie
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> nabs-l:
>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%4
>> 0gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> nabs-l:
>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40oli
>> vero.us
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>
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om

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 03:12:21 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 23:12:21 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?
In-Reply-To: <9895F222-E985-4631-AFFC-D7E9EFE49EA3@gmail.com>
References: <4fafd3d3.2706650a.6b7b.3469@mx.google.com><CALQ-rrMSgdC00PUOKe85adOE6GPQLKEQk+N_dgKwQJxb=JDRZg@mail.gmail.com>
	<9895F222-E985-4631-AFFC-D7E9EFE49EA3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <473E2D95D7DD44C180B71BA1F5BE1516@OwnerPC>

Sophie,
in high school I rarely used a computer. My braille note and printing essays 
or notes was enough. In college and work though you need a computer and I 
recommend a PC not a mac because that is what you will likely use at work 
later on and college is a good time to get used to computers.

You will need to format, edit, and write papers; you will need to research 
extensively online via databases and search engines.
So keep your computer!

-----Original Message----- 
From: Sophie Trist
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 8:57 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?

You bring up good points. i am in high school. if i may inquire, what is 
your major? because i've never heard ( of many of the things you mentioned. 
if it is something techy, i unerstand why a computer is necessary.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 13, 2012, at 3:51 PM, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:

> Sophie,
>
> I'm not sure where you are in your educational career (highschool,
> college, post grad, etc.), but based on the things I've had to do at
> one time or another I would be asking yourself if you able to, on the
> Apex:
>
> * Add headings, font styles, footnotes, running headers and footers,
> page numbers, tables of contents, and properly formatted bibliography
> pages to a research paper;
> * Access research databases including full-text PDF documents (even
> those that are missing OCRed text);
> * Use a spreadsheet or other statistical analysis package to
> manipulate and analyze data;
> * Access web pages using modern technologies such as AJAX (submitting
> forms, and retrieving data without reloading the page), ARIA (adding
> extra accessibility information to make web based applications
> accessible), and dynamic HTML (showing and hiding sections of a web
> page, again without reloading it); and
> * Access any applications that may be required by your chosen course of 
> study.
>
> Not knowing what you are planning to do I can't really know for sure
> if the Apex is the only solution that will work, but it has been my
> experience that it is still necessary to have a computer even with a
> notetaking solution to be truely competetive.
>
> Tony
>
> On 5/13/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tony, could you please clarify what you mean when you say
>> intensive productivity? I'm afraid I don't understand exactly
>> what you're trying to say. I have found my apex able to handle
>> all reading, writing, and editing assignments I've had in the
>> past.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 23:27:39 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?
>>
>> Sophie,
>>
>> In a way, your decision is almost comparing apples to oranges.
>> Your
>> iPhone and Apex are both  portable computing solutions, where a
>> computer (whether you go with a mac or a Windows based system) is
>> a
>> much more powerful package. If you are a student, you are likely
>> to
>> want a platform capable of intensive word processing, data
>> calculation, and access to research databases, just to name a few
>> possibilities. While portable computing platforms have come a
>> long way
>> in the past ten years, they still are not a replacement for the
>> power
>> and functionality you gain with a computer.
>>
>> It is and will likely remain my belief for some time, necessary
>> to
>> have access to a desktop or notebook computer and use the
>> portable
>> solution (iPhone/BraillNote in your case) for note taking,
>> e-mail, and
>> other things that you need to do while mobile, and continue to
>> use a
>> computer for intensive productivity tasks.
>>
>> Tony
>>
>> On 5/11/12, Valerie Gibson <valandkayla at gmail.com> wrote:
>> depends on what you're after. my first thought was terminal, or
>> an ssh
>> client.
>> apart from that, a larger storage space, and it's faster.
>> I guess if you lumped the bn and iPhone into one ball, you'd
>> have almost the
>> same features of the mac, but maybe i'm forgetting something.
>> oh, not sure if the bn can do ftp either.
>> On May 11, 2012, at 5:59 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I currently use a braillenote apex and an iPhone 4S running IOS
>> 5.1. I am
>> debating the issue of whether I should get a Mac, and your input
>> would be
>> very helpufl in this decision, because I know a lot of y'all use
>> a Mac
>> with Voiceover. My main question is, what abilities does a Mac
>> have that
>> an iPhone and braillenote do not have?
>> Yours,
>> Sophie
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%4
>> 0gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40oli
>> vero.us
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
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>> r%40gmail.com
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 03:17:45 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 23:17:45 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?
In-Reply-To: <FCAE8210850845FE9E5056B23CCEB493@HUMBERTOAVILA>
References: <4fafd3d3.2706650a.6b7b.3469@mx.google.com><CALQ-rrMSgdC00PUOKe85adOE6GPQLKEQk+N_dgKwQJxb=JDRZg@mail.gmail.com><9895F222-E985-4631-AFFC-D7E9EFE49EA3@gmail.com>
	<FCAE8210850845FE9E5056B23CCEB493@HUMBERTOAVILA>
Message-ID: <DCFE943E478C43AA9423B497F626FBAB@OwnerPC>

Humberto,
But have you worked in an office? They are complex systems where you have to 
log in to networks.
Therefore no I do not see computers going away for a long time. Yes, maybe 
for on the go, you may be able to soon search databases on a thing small 
portable Iphone or tablet computer, but no not for daily work. For one 
thing, computers at work run lots of highly sophisticated software that 
cannot run on a mobile device. And then you have security issues.  Wireless 
connections are not real secure now. Government and government contractors 
want security of information. For many reasons, computers will be here for a 
long time. I think any high school student should be encouraged to get and 
use a computer, not just an Iphone, to be competetive in college and work.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Humberto Avila
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 9:37 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?

Hello tony, and all,

Given the pace at which science and technology is progressing these days,
you will see that in the near future, all those things that you mentioned
will be possible to do on a  smartphone such as the iPhone or other I
device. I know this because I am a big believer of the technology world. I
am not a tech profit, nor I am a PH.D. in technology, nor I know that this
will happen for reals. However, pretty much, by the year of 2020, even the
thinnest cellphone, smart or not, will be able to analyze and retrieve the
slickest of databases and let you work with the most powerful spreadsheets,
presentations, documents, and even media, just like a desktop or laptop
computer today. And, note takers will not be behind, or even if they are,
the iPhone with braille display will be the solution, and the hope will
still run about making other devices accessible. Hopefully we'll have better
laws by then regarding blindness and accessibility LOL. Any thoughts?

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Sophie Trist
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:58 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?

You bring up good points. i am in high school. if i may inquire, what is
your major? because i've never heard ( of many of the things you mentioned.
if it is something techy, i unerstand why a computer is necessary.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 13, 2012, at 3:51 PM, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:

> Sophie,
>
> I'm not sure where you are in your educational career (highschool,
> college, post grad, etc.), but based on the things I've had to do at
> one time or another I would be asking yourself if you able to, on the
> Apex:
>
> * Add headings, font styles, footnotes, running headers and footers,
> page numbers, tables of contents, and properly formatted bibliography
> pages to a research paper;
> * Access research databases including full-text PDF documents (even
> those that are missing OCRed text);
> * Use a spreadsheet or other statistical analysis package to
> manipulate and analyze data;
> * Access web pages using modern technologies such as AJAX (submitting
> forms, and retrieving data without reloading the page), ARIA (adding
> extra accessibility information to make web based applications
> accessible), and dynamic HTML (showing and hiding sections of a web
> page, again without reloading it); and
> * Access any applications that may be required by your chosen course of
study.
>
> Not knowing what you are planning to do I can't really know for sure
> if the Apex is the only solution that will work, but it has been my
> experience that it is still necessary to have a computer even with a
> notetaking solution to be truely competetive.
>
> Tony
>
> On 5/13/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Tony, could you please clarify what you mean when you say
>> intensive productivity? I'm afraid I don't understand exactly
>> what you're trying to say. I have found my apex able to handle
>> all reading, writing, and editing assignments I've had in the
>> past.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 23:27:39 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] iphone or mac?
>>
>> Sophie,
>>
>> In a way, your decision is almost comparing apples to oranges.
>> Your
>> iPhone and Apex are both  portable computing solutions, where a
>> computer (whether you go with a mac or a Windows based system) is
>> a
>> much more powerful package. If you are a student, you are likely
>> to
>> want a platform capable of intensive word processing, data
>> calculation, and access to research databases, just to name a few
>> possibilities. While portable computing platforms have come a
>> long way
>> in the past ten years, they still are not a replacement for the
>> power
>> and functionality you gain with a computer.
>>
>> It is and will likely remain my belief for some time, necessary
>> to
>> have access to a desktop or notebook computer and use the
>> portable
>> solution (iPhone/BraillNote in your case) for note taking,
>> e-mail, and
>> other things that you need to do while mobile, and continue to
>> use a
>> computer for intensive productivity tasks.
>>
>> Tony
>>
>> On 5/11/12, Valerie Gibson <valandkayla at gmail.com> wrote:
>> depends on what you're after. my first thought was terminal, or
>> an ssh
>> client.
>> apart from that, a larger storage space, and it's faster.
>> I guess if you lumped the bn and iPhone into one ball, you'd
>> have almost the
>> same features of the mac, but maybe i'm forgetting something.
>> oh, not sure if the bn can do ftp either.
>> On May 11, 2012, at 5:59 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I currently use a braillenote apex and an iPhone 4S running IOS
>> 5.1. I am
>> debating the issue of whether I should get a Mac, and your input
>> would be
>> very helpufl in this decision, because I know a lot of y'all use
>> a Mac
>> with Voiceover. My main question is, what abilities does a Mac
>> have that
>> an iPhone and braillenote do not have?
>> Yours,
>> Sophie
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/valandkayla%4
>> 0gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40oli
>> vero.us
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>
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om

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From nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com  Mon May 14 04:15:44 2012
From: nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com (community service Outreach)
Date: Sun, 13 May 2012 23:15:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Community Service call Sunday, May 20th!
Message-ID: <CAOY844Q4iiWwMxNx7Jt+5kyqSJY+FgMpbpHNyujLD3jqw71KXA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, all,

Does your chapter want to get involved with community service but isn't sure
quite how to do it? Do you ever wonder about the benefits
of community service and chapter involvement? Do you want to learn about
possible ways your chapter or affiliate can get involved? If so, this call
is for you!
Come and hear from a current chapter president who actively works to get
their chapter involved in community service Work.   Also hear from an
affiliate member who was   successful in introducing  community service to
their affiliate, how they did it, and the tips they may have for breaking
the ice!

When: Sunday, May 20th, at 6 ET

Topic: Community Service and Chapter Involvement

Where:
(218) 339-3600
passcode 808277

Come along, invite someone, and we look forward to  talking to you then!

The Community  Service group.


From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Mon May 14 04:30:27 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 00:30:27 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
References: <19E927DAA3B144D9AE038B72199A8EBD@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOs6c0e9Qpt3S64DGS+Fin7UxsuD0+cdGm2cpL4OPmfO3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEB210E11A6A4F2A980C62AF26EF12BF@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <000301cd318a$4a03bfe0$1400ba43@BRIAN>

These VR Counselors will never experience a "job loss" because their 
government jobs have it great!  with benifits good pay and government 
holidays off!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:50 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support


Hi Josh,
No, this is an employee of the agency; its  a job placement specialist, not
a center.
My question is what do these people do? From the one blind client I spoke
with, he said the specialist didn't do much of anything but told him to look
online for job ads.
I'll revise my sentence  from my first email.

After  I just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put
down an internship where my foot will be in the door in the government  that
may lead somewhere is insulting.
Not clear here what insulted me.

After I just told her I looked and found few entry level jobs I qualified
for, I told her I  had an internship coming where I could get my foot in the
door in the government and this internship may lead to more permanent work,
her comment about finding a real job insulted me.

I'll add its like all she cares about getting clients jobs, not good
careers, to heck with what they want to do, just get them jobs and close
their cases.
Not a good attitude.  Also, many college grads are doing just what I am--
getting internships to hopefully lead to full time work. There was an
article in the New york times about this.  Inexperienced young people cannot
find work.  What world do vr counselors live in?
Well not the real world where people are struggling and worried about lay
off and people are losing homes or working three part time jobs to pay for
the essentials of life.
I'm trying to say its tough for anyone, and being
blind makes it a little harder. A vr counselor should support you by giving
you the skills to look for work and help you network, not throwing you to
some so called specialist who probably just finds any job and if you take it
they can close your case. No, I'll be bold and stand up to them and go for
the job that fits my skills.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:22 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support

LWSB was a job placement center.
You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS programs.
If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to send you to LWSB, or
a center like it!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject line for this complex issue.
>
> I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a general BA degree in liberal
> studies; kind of where you make your won program to complete a degree; I
> picked  my concentrations of social sciences and communication. Then after
> some training at our state center, I pursued a writing certificate at 
> Nova,
> northern Virginia community college.  I’m finishing that next semester.  I
> wanted to add more to my resume and take classes specific to writing, so
> this was a good investment for me.  My career goal is broad; in this 
> economy
> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind or not.
> I desire to work in something to help people. I’m thinking outreach,
> communication, customer service, or development.  I want to work with a 
> team
> of people in an office.
>
> That is some background.  Now as we all know getting a job is tough with 
> the
> down economy and most jobs are gotten via networking anyway.
> I networked via a disability mentoring day for customs and border patrol; 
> I
> was refered for a unpaid internship in section 508 compliance after
> following up with the disability program manager. I intend to get this
> internship once going through their rigorrous background check.
>
> Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor.  I tell her I’m looking for 
> work
> and explain barriers like lack of experience; visual tasks in entry level
> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data entry etc, etc.
> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over my case and I wonder if she 
> is
> forcing a service on me for which it will do no good.
>
> I then tell her about my internship to end the call. “well, you are good 
> at
> finding internships, but lets look for a real job.” How insulting! After I
> just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put down an
> internship where my foot will be in the door in the government  that may
> lead somewhere is insulting.
>
> Have anyone of you worked with or  known people who worked with job
> placement specialists?  This counselor wants to refer me
> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless he actually takes me out to 
> go
> in person to employers, its called cold calls. I asked her what he’d do 
> for
> me and she was real vague.
> “He’ll send you job leads.” she said.  She said something about job
> announcements.
>
> I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I just am not sure I should work 
> with
> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a waste of time.  I’d rather 
> have
> vr work with me on things like a good cover letter, interview skills,
> professional dos and don’ts, stuff like that. So, I’m wondering if any of
> you had this service and how it went.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>

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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon May 14 09:46:31 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 04:46:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
In-Reply-To: <000301cd318a$4a03bfe0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
References: <19E927DAA3B144D9AE038B72199A8EBD@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOs6c0e9Qpt3S64DGS+Fin7UxsuD0+cdGm2cpL4OPmfO3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEB210E11A6A4F2A980C62AF26EF12BF@OwnerPC>
	<000301cd318a$4a03bfe0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOuBtc8fZ6+662nSA7ONcfe_THvByi0PaPL-QRh3oXNJnQ@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, but some of them deserve to lose their jobs!
Just saying!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/13/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> These VR Counselors will never experience a "job loss" because their
> government jobs have it great!  with benifits good pay and government
> holidays off!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>
>
> Hi Josh,
> No, this is an employee of the agency; its  a job placement specialist, not
> a center.
> My question is what do these people do? From the one blind client I spoke
> with, he said the specialist didn't do much of anything but told him to
> look
> online for job ads.
> I'll revise my sentence  from my first email.
>
> After  I just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put
> down an internship where my foot will be in the door in the government
> that
> may lead somewhere is insulting.
> Not clear here what insulted me.
>
> After I just told her I looked and found few entry level jobs I qualified
> for, I told her I  had an internship coming where I could get my foot in
> the
> door in the government and this internship may lead to more permanent work,
> her comment about finding a real job insulted me.
>
> I'll add its like all she cares about getting clients jobs, not good
> careers, to heck with what they want to do, just get them jobs and close
> their cases.
> Not a good attitude.  Also, many college grads are doing just what I am--
> getting internships to hopefully lead to full time work. There was an
> article in the New york times about this.  Inexperienced young people
> cannot
> find work.  What world do vr counselors live in?
> Well not the real world where people are struggling and worried about lay
> off and people are losing homes or working three part time jobs to pay for
> the essentials of life.
> I'm trying to say its tough for anyone, and being
> blind makes it a little harder. A vr counselor should support you by giving
> you the skills to look for work and help you network, not throwing you to
> some so called specialist who probably just finds any job and if you take
> it
> they can close your case. No, I'll be bold and stand up to them and go for
> the job that fits my skills.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:22 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>
> LWSB was a job placement center.
> You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS programs.
> If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to send you to LWSB, or
> a center like it!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject line for this complex issue.
>>
>> I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a general BA degree in liberal
>> studies; kind of where you make your won program to complete a degree; I
>> picked  my concentrations of social sciences and communication. Then
>> after
>> some training at our state center, I pursued a writing certificate at
>> Nova,
>> northern Virginia community college.  I’m finishing that next semester.
>> I
>> wanted to add more to my resume and take classes specific to writing, so
>> this was a good investment for me.  My career goal is broad; in this
>> economy
>> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind or not.
>> I desire to work in something to help people. I’m thinking outreach,
>> communication, customer service, or development.  I want to work with a
>> team
>> of people in an office.
>>
>> That is some background.  Now as we all know getting a job is tough with
>> the
>> down economy and most jobs are gotten via networking anyway.
>> I networked via a disability mentoring day for customs and border patrol;
>>
>> I
>> was refered for a unpaid internship in section 508 compliance after
>> following up with the disability program manager. I intend to get this
>> internship once going through their rigorrous background check.
>>
>> Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor.  I tell her I’m looking for
>> work
>> and explain barriers like lack of experience; visual tasks in entry level
>> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data entry etc, etc.
>> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over my case and I wonder if she
>> is
>> forcing a service on me for which it will do no good.
>>
>> I then tell her about my internship to end the call. “well, you are good
>> at
>> finding internships, but lets look for a real job.” How insulting! After
>> I
>> just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put down an
>> internship where my foot will be in the door in the government  that may
>> lead somewhere is insulting.
>>
>> Have anyone of you worked with or  known people who worked with job
>> placement specialists?  This counselor wants to refer me
>> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless he actually takes me out to
>> go
>> in person to employers, its called cold calls. I asked her what he’d do
>> for
>> me and she was real vague.
>> “He’ll send you job leads.” she said.  She said something about job
>> announcements.
>>
>> I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I just am not sure I should work
>> with
>> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a waste of time.  I’d rather
>> have
>> vr work with me on things like a good cover letter, interview skills,
>> professional dos and don’ts, stuff like that. So, I’m wondering if any of
>> you had this service and how it went.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Mon May 14 12:07:37 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 08:07:37 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
References: <19E927DAA3B144D9AE038B72199A8EBD@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOs6c0e9Qpt3S64DGS+Fin7UxsuD0+cdGm2cpL4OPmfO3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEB210E11A6A4F2A980C62AF26EF12BF@OwnerPC>
	<000301cd318a$4a03bfe0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAO83KOuBtc8fZ6+662nSA7ONcfe_THvByi0PaPL-QRh3oXNJnQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000501cd31ca$280407c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>

Agreed Josh and that's ashaim why do people go into that field if they don't 
like helping others then?  If I pursue that degree I would help all my 
clients as long as they were motivated!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 5:46 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support


Yeah, but some of them deserve to lose their jobs!
Just saying!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/13/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> These VR Counselors will never experience a "job loss" because their
> government jobs have it great!  with benifits good pay and government
> holidays off!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>
>
> Hi Josh,
> No, this is an employee of the agency; its  a job placement specialist, 
> not
> a center.
> My question is what do these people do? From the one blind client I spoke
> with, he said the specialist didn't do much of anything but told him to
> look
> online for job ads.
> I'll revise my sentence  from my first email.
>
> After  I just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put
> down an internship where my foot will be in the door in the government
> that
> may lead somewhere is insulting.
> Not clear here what insulted me.
>
> After I just told her I looked and found few entry level jobs I qualified
> for, I told her I  had an internship coming where I could get my foot in
> the
> door in the government and this internship may lead to more permanent 
> work,
> her comment about finding a real job insulted me.
>
> I'll add its like all she cares about getting clients jobs, not good
> careers, to heck with what they want to do, just get them jobs and close
> their cases.
> Not a good attitude.  Also, many college grads are doing just what I am--
> getting internships to hopefully lead to full time work. There was an
> article in the New york times about this.  Inexperienced young people
> cannot
> find work.  What world do vr counselors live in?
> Well not the real world where people are struggling and worried about lay
> off and people are losing homes or working three part time jobs to pay for
> the essentials of life.
> I'm trying to say its tough for anyone, and being
> blind makes it a little harder. A vr counselor should support you by 
> giving
> you the skills to look for work and help you network, not throwing you to
> some so called specialist who probably just finds any job and if you take
> it
> they can close your case. No, I'll be bold and stand up to them and go for
> the job that fits my skills.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:22 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>
> LWSB was a job placement center.
> You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS programs.
> If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to send you to LWSB, or
> a center like it!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject line for this complex issue.
>>
>> I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a general BA degree in liberal
>> studies; kind of where you make your won program to complete a degree; I
>> picked  my concentrations of social sciences and communication. Then
>> after
>> some training at our state center, I pursued a writing certificate at
>> Nova,
>> northern Virginia community college.  I’m finishing that next semester.
>> I
>> wanted to add more to my resume and take classes specific to writing, so
>> this was a good investment for me.  My career goal is broad; in this
>> economy
>> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind or not.
>> I desire to work in something to help people. I’m thinking outreach,
>> communication, customer service, or development.  I want to work with a
>> team
>> of people in an office.
>>
>> That is some background.  Now as we all know getting a job is tough with
>> the
>> down economy and most jobs are gotten via networking anyway.
>> I networked via a disability mentoring day for customs and border patrol;
>>
>> I
>> was refered for a unpaid internship in section 508 compliance after
>> following up with the disability program manager. I intend to get this
>> internship once going through their rigorrous background check.
>>
>> Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor.  I tell her I’m looking for
>> work
>> and explain barriers like lack of experience; visual tasks in entry level
>> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data entry etc, etc.
>> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over my case and I wonder if she
>> is
>> forcing a service on me for which it will do no good.
>>
>> I then tell her about my internship to end the call. “well, you are good
>> at
>> finding internships, but lets look for a real job.” How insulting! After
>> I
>> just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put down an
>> internship where my foot will be in the door in the government  that may
>> lead somewhere is insulting.
>>
>> Have anyone of you worked with or  known people who worked with job
>> placement specialists?  This counselor wants to refer me
>> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless he actually takes me out to
>> go
>> in person to employers, its called cold calls. I asked her what he’d do
>> for
>> me and she was real vague.
>> “He’ll send you job leads.” she said.  She said something about job
>> announcements.
>>
>> I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I just am not sure I should work
>> with
>> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a waste of time.  I’d rather
>> have
>> vr work with me on things like a good cover letter, interview skills,
>> professional dos and don’ts, stuff like that. So, I’m wondering if any of
>> you had this service and how it went.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
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_______________________________________________
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon May 14 12:14:57 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 07:14:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
In-Reply-To: <000501cd31ca$280407c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
References: <19E927DAA3B144D9AE038B72199A8EBD@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOs6c0e9Qpt3S64DGS+Fin7UxsuD0+cdGm2cpL4OPmfO3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEB210E11A6A4F2A980C62AF26EF12BF@OwnerPC>
	<000301cd318a$4a03bfe0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAO83KOuBtc8fZ6+662nSA7ONcfe_THvByi0PaPL-QRh3oXNJnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000501cd31ca$280407c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvX0EA8QXP2kPGg9GYZZjgrP5Jpcm6Bwwz0B4qVrEgYfg@mail.gmail.com>

Amen!
A field that I really wanted to pursue was broadcasting, but I don't
have the means, to learn the trade!
I don't have the equipment, or the resources.
My VR counselor probably wouldn't help me in that endeavor, because
the station I want to start, will be a Christian station.
BTW, it gets worse, when you find out my situation!
I'll start a new thread, going through the history of VR, in Arkansas.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/14/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> Agreed Josh and that's ashaim why do people go into that field if they don't
>
> like helping others then?  If I pursue that degree I would help all my
> clients as long as they were motivated!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 5:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>
>
> Yeah, but some of them deserve to lose their jobs!
> Just saying!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/13/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> These VR Counselors will never experience a "job loss" because their
>> government jobs have it great!  with benifits good pay and government
>> holidays off!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>>
>>
>> Hi Josh,
>> No, this is an employee of the agency; its  a job placement specialist,
>> not
>> a center.
>> My question is what do these people do? From the one blind client I spoke
>> with, he said the specialist didn't do much of anything but told him to
>> look
>> online for job ads.
>> I'll revise my sentence  from my first email.
>>
>> After  I just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put
>> down an internship where my foot will be in the door in the government
>> that
>> may lead somewhere is insulting.
>> Not clear here what insulted me.
>>
>> After I just told her I looked and found few entry level jobs I qualified
>> for, I told her I  had an internship coming where I could get my foot in
>> the
>> door in the government and this internship may lead to more permanent
>> work,
>> her comment about finding a real job insulted me.
>>
>> I'll add its like all she cares about getting clients jobs, not good
>> careers, to heck with what they want to do, just get them jobs and close
>> their cases.
>> Not a good attitude.  Also, many college grads are doing just what I am--
>> getting internships to hopefully lead to full time work. There was an
>> article in the New york times about this.  Inexperienced young people
>> cannot
>> find work.  What world do vr counselors live in?
>> Well not the real world where people are struggling and worried about lay
>> off and people are losing homes or working three part time jobs to pay
>> for
>> the essentials of life.
>> I'm trying to say its tough for anyone, and being
>> blind makes it a little harder. A vr counselor should support you by
>> giving
>> you the skills to look for work and help you network, not throwing you to
>> some so called specialist who probably just finds any job and if you take
>> it
>> they can close your case. No, I'll be bold and stand up to them and go
>> for
>> the job that fits my skills.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:22 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>>
>> LWSB was a job placement center.
>> You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS programs.
>> If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to send you to LWSB, or
>> a center like it!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject line for this complex issue.
>>>
>>> I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a general BA degree in liberal
>>> studies; kind of where you make your won program to complete a degree; I
>>> picked  my concentrations of social sciences and communication. Then
>>> after
>>> some training at our state center, I pursued a writing certificate at
>>> Nova,
>>> northern Virginia community college.  I’m finishing that next semester.
>>> I
>>> wanted to add more to my resume and take classes specific to writing, so
>>> this was a good investment for me.  My career goal is broad; in this
>>> economy
>>> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind or not.
>>> I desire to work in something to help people. I’m thinking outreach,
>>> communication, customer service, or development.  I want to work with a
>>> team
>>> of people in an office.
>>>
>>> That is some background.  Now as we all know getting a job is tough with
>>> the
>>> down economy and most jobs are gotten via networking anyway.
>>> I networked via a disability mentoring day for customs and border
>>> patrol;
>>>
>>> I
>>> was refered for a unpaid internship in section 508 compliance after
>>> following up with the disability program manager. I intend to get this
>>> internship once going through their rigorrous background check.
>>>
>>> Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor.  I tell her I’m looking for
>>> work
>>> and explain barriers like lack of experience; visual tasks in entry
>>> level
>>> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data entry etc, etc.
>>> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over my case and I wonder if she
>>> is
>>> forcing a service on me for which it will do no good.
>>>
>>> I then tell her about my internship to end the call. “well, you are good
>>> at
>>> finding internships, but lets look for a real job.” How insulting! After
>>> I
>>> just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put down an
>>> internship where my foot will be in the door in the government  that may
>>> lead somewhere is insulting.
>>>
>>> Have anyone of you worked with or  known people who worked with job
>>> placement specialists?  This counselor wants to refer me
>>> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless he actually takes me out to
>>> go
>>> in person to employers, its called cold calls. I asked her what he’d do
>>> for
>>> me and she was real vague.
>>> “He’ll send you job leads.” she said.  She said something about job
>>> announcements.
>>>
>>> I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I just am not sure I should work
>>> with
>>> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a waste of time.  I’d rather
>>> have
>>> vr work with me on things like a good cover letter, interview skills,
>>> professional dos and don’ts, stuff like that. So, I’m wondering if any
>>> of
>>> you had this service and how it went.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon May 14 12:23:37 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 07:23:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Arkansas Vocational Rehab
Message-ID: <CAO83KOs-8k3FMtGNtvc2vi2r6Ux1ny9MO2m6yYwt3wCadKgz4Q@mail.gmail.com>

As promised, here's the new thread!
When I was growing up, there was a gentleman, named Mr James Ivory,
who served as my VR counselor.
Then, Mrs Barbara McDaniel had the position, until her retirement.
Meanwhile, back at the Department of Social Services, a division of
services for the blind was created.
Mr Ivory went on, to work for them!
He was my DSB counselor, and Mrs McDaniel was my VR counselor.
After she retired, Mr Alvis Hooks took over VR, but took them into a
totally different direction, so that all of the blindness services,
that my state's VR used to provide, are now handled by the DSB,
(Division of Services for the Blind,) (Department of Social Services.)
Now, the DSB is handling all of my VR needs, while the actual VR is
helping others, (who aren't necessarily disabled.)
His job is about to be vacated, when he retires, in a year or so.
I'm hopefully going to get that position, so that I can make sure,
that VR serves its real purpose, so DSB can stay out of our affairs!
They used to be two separate organizations, now, they're all one in
the same, and that's not good!
Blessings, Joshua


From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Mon May 14 14:55:17 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 10:55:17 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
References: <19E927DAA3B144D9AE038B72199A8EBD@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOs6c0e9Qpt3S64DGS+Fin7UxsuD0+cdGm2cpL4OPmfO3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEB210E11A6A4F2A980C62AF26EF12BF@OwnerPC>
	<000301cd318a$4a03bfe0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAO83KOuBtc8fZ6+662nSA7ONcfe_THvByi0PaPL-QRh3oXNJnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000501cd31ca$280407c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAO83KOvX0EA8QXP2kPGg9GYZZjgrP5Jpcm6Bwwz0B4qVrEgYfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000301cd31e1$93ded7b0$1400ba43@BRIAN>

Do what I did go get your BA in broadcast Journalism and Mass 
Communications.  Intern at tons of stations and get college radio 
experience.  You can do it man!
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support


Amen!
A field that I really wanted to pursue was broadcasting, but I don't
have the means, to learn the trade!
I don't have the equipment, or the resources.
My VR counselor probably wouldn't help me in that endeavor, because
the station I want to start, will be a Christian station.
BTW, it gets worse, when you find out my situation!
I'll start a new thread, going through the history of VR, in Arkansas.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/14/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> Agreed Josh and that's ashaim why do people go into that field if they 
> don't
>
> like helping others then?  If I pursue that degree I would help all my
> clients as long as they were motivated!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 5:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>
>
> Yeah, but some of them deserve to lose their jobs!
> Just saying!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/13/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> These VR Counselors will never experience a "job loss" because their
>> government jobs have it great!  with benifits good pay and government
>> holidays off!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>>
>>
>> Hi Josh,
>> No, this is an employee of the agency; its  a job placement specialist,
>> not
>> a center.
>> My question is what do these people do? From the one blind client I spoke
>> with, he said the specialist didn't do much of anything but told him to
>> look
>> online for job ads.
>> I'll revise my sentence  from my first email.
>>
>> After  I just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put
>> down an internship where my foot will be in the door in the government
>> that
>> may lead somewhere is insulting.
>> Not clear here what insulted me.
>>
>> After I just told her I looked and found few entry level jobs I qualified
>> for, I told her I  had an internship coming where I could get my foot in
>> the
>> door in the government and this internship may lead to more permanent
>> work,
>> her comment about finding a real job insulted me.
>>
>> I'll add its like all she cares about getting clients jobs, not good
>> careers, to heck with what they want to do, just get them jobs and close
>> their cases.
>> Not a good attitude.  Also, many college grads are doing just what I am--
>> getting internships to hopefully lead to full time work. There was an
>> article in the New york times about this.  Inexperienced young people
>> cannot
>> find work.  What world do vr counselors live in?
>> Well not the real world where people are struggling and worried about lay
>> off and people are losing homes or working three part time jobs to pay
>> for
>> the essentials of life.
>> I'm trying to say its tough for anyone, and being
>> blind makes it a little harder. A vr counselor should support you by
>> giving
>> you the skills to look for work and help you network, not throwing you to
>> some so called specialist who probably just finds any job and if you take
>> it
>> they can close your case. No, I'll be bold and stand up to them and go
>> for
>> the job that fits my skills.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:22 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>>
>> LWSB was a job placement center.
>> You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS programs.
>> If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to send you to LWSB, or
>> a center like it!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject line for this complex issue.
>>>
>>> I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a general BA degree in liberal
>>> studies; kind of where you make your won program to complete a degree; I
>>> picked  my concentrations of social sciences and communication. Then
>>> after
>>> some training at our state center, I pursued a writing certificate at
>>> Nova,
>>> northern Virginia community college.  I’m finishing that next semester.
>>> I
>>> wanted to add more to my resume and take classes specific to writing, so
>>> this was a good investment for me.  My career goal is broad; in this
>>> economy
>>> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind or not.
>>> I desire to work in something to help people. I’m thinking outreach,
>>> communication, customer service, or development.  I want to work with a
>>> team
>>> of people in an office.
>>>
>>> That is some background.  Now as we all know getting a job is tough with
>>> the
>>> down economy and most jobs are gotten via networking anyway.
>>> I networked via a disability mentoring day for customs and border
>>> patrol;
>>>
>>> I
>>> was refered for a unpaid internship in section 508 compliance after
>>> following up with the disability program manager. I intend to get this
>>> internship once going through their rigorrous background check.
>>>
>>> Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor.  I tell her I’m looking for
>>> work
>>> and explain barriers like lack of experience; visual tasks in entry
>>> level
>>> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data entry etc, etc.
>>> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over my case and I wonder if she
>>> is
>>> forcing a service on me for which it will do no good.
>>>
>>> I then tell her about my internship to end the call. “well, you are good
>>> at
>>> finding internships, but lets look for a real job.” How insulting! After
>>> I
>>> just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put down an
>>> internship where my foot will be in the door in the government  that may
>>> lead somewhere is insulting.
>>>
>>> Have anyone of you worked with or  known people who worked with job
>>> placement specialists?  This counselor wants to refer me
>>> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless he actually takes me out to
>>> go
>>> in person to employers, its called cold calls. I asked her what he’d do
>>> for
>>> me and she was real vague.
>>> “He’ll send you job leads.” she said.  She said something about job
>>> announcements.
>>>
>>> I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I just am not sure I should work
>>> with
>>> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a waste of time.  I’d rather
>>> have
>>> vr work with me on things like a good cover letter, interview skills,
>>> professional dos and don’ts, stuff like that. So, I’m wondering if any
>>> of
>>> you had this service and how it went.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>

_______________________________________________
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon May 14 14:59:36 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 09:59:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
In-Reply-To: <000301cd31e1$93ded7b0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
References: <19E927DAA3B144D9AE038B72199A8EBD@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOs6c0e9Qpt3S64DGS+Fin7UxsuD0+cdGm2cpL4OPmfO3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEB210E11A6A4F2A980C62AF26EF12BF@OwnerPC>
	<000301cd318a$4a03bfe0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAO83KOuBtc8fZ6+662nSA7ONcfe_THvByi0PaPL-QRh3oXNJnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000501cd31ca$280407c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAO83KOvX0EA8QXP2kPGg9GYZZjgrP5Jpcm6Bwwz0B4qVrEgYfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000301cd31e1$93ded7b0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvdmNA9EkkHw0tvO-BgC2UWh2h2wwHORXDH88re790Fxw@mail.gmail.com>

There isn't a broadcasting school, in Arkansas.
BTW, please send me the Website of the station, that you work for, off list.
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/14/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> Do what I did go get your BA in broadcast Journalism and Mass
> Communications.  Intern at tons of stations and get college radio
> experience.  You can do it man!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 8:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>
>
> Amen!
> A field that I really wanted to pursue was broadcasting, but I don't
> have the means, to learn the trade!
> I don't have the equipment, or the resources.
> My VR counselor probably wouldn't help me in that endeavor, because
> the station I want to start, will be a Christian station.
> BTW, it gets worse, when you find out my situation!
> I'll start a new thread, going through the history of VR, in Arkansas.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/14/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Agreed Josh and that's ashaim why do people go into that field if they
>> don't
>>
>> like helping others then?  If I pursue that degree I would help all my
>> clients as long as they were motivated!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 5:46 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>>
>>
>> Yeah, but some of them deserve to lose their jobs!
>> Just saying!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/13/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> These VR Counselors will never experience a "job loss" because their
>>> government jobs have it great!  with benifits good pay and government
>>> holidays off!
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:50 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Josh,
>>> No, this is an employee of the agency; its  a job placement specialist,
>>> not
>>> a center.
>>> My question is what do these people do? From the one blind client I
>>> spoke
>>> with, he said the specialist didn't do much of anything but told him to
>>> look
>>> online for job ads.
>>> I'll revise my sentence  from my first email.
>>>
>>> After  I just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to
>>> put
>>> down an internship where my foot will be in the door in the government
>>> that
>>> may lead somewhere is insulting.
>>> Not clear here what insulted me.
>>>
>>> After I just told her I looked and found few entry level jobs I
>>> qualified
>>> for, I told her I  had an internship coming where I could get my foot in
>>> the
>>> door in the government and this internship may lead to more permanent
>>> work,
>>> her comment about finding a real job insulted me.
>>>
>>> I'll add its like all she cares about getting clients jobs, not good
>>> careers, to heck with what they want to do, just get them jobs and close
>>> their cases.
>>> Not a good attitude.  Also, many college grads are doing just what I
>>> am--
>>> getting internships to hopefully lead to full time work. There was an
>>> article in the New york times about this.  Inexperienced young people
>>> cannot
>>> find work.  What world do vr counselors live in?
>>> Well not the real world where people are struggling and worried about
>>> lay
>>> off and people are losing homes or working three part time jobs to pay
>>> for
>>> the essentials of life.
>>> I'm trying to say its tough for anyone, and being
>>> blind makes it a little harder. A vr counselor should support you by
>>> giving
>>> you the skills to look for work and help you network, not throwing you
>>> to
>>> some so called specialist who probably just finds any job and if you
>>> take
>>> it
>>> they can close your case. No, I'll be bold and stand up to them and go
>>> for
>>> the job that fits my skills.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Joshua Lester
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:22 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>>>
>>> LWSB was a job placement center.
>>> You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS programs.
>>> If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to send you to LWSB, or
>>> a center like it!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject line for this complex issue.
>>>>
>>>> I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a general BA degree in liberal
>>>> studies; kind of where you make your won program to complete a degree;
>>>> I
>>>> picked  my concentrations of social sciences and communication. Then
>>>> after
>>>> some training at our state center, I pursued a writing certificate at
>>>> Nova,
>>>> northern Virginia community college.  I’m finishing that next semester.
>>>> I
>>>> wanted to add more to my resume and take classes specific to writing,
>>>> so
>>>> this was a good investment for me.  My career goal is broad; in this
>>>> economy
>>>> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind or not.
>>>> I desire to work in something to help people. I’m thinking outreach,
>>>> communication, customer service, or development.  I want to work with a
>>>> team
>>>> of people in an office.
>>>>
>>>> That is some background.  Now as we all know getting a job is tough
>>>> with
>>>> the
>>>> down economy and most jobs are gotten via networking anyway.
>>>> I networked via a disability mentoring day for customs and border
>>>> patrol;
>>>>
>>>> I
>>>> was refered for a unpaid internship in section 508 compliance after
>>>> following up with the disability program manager. I intend to get this
>>>> internship once going through their rigorrous background check.
>>>>
>>>> Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor.  I tell her I’m looking for
>>>> work
>>>> and explain barriers like lack of experience; visual tasks in entry
>>>> level
>>>> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data entry etc, etc.
>>>> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over my case and I wonder if
>>>> she
>>>> is
>>>> forcing a service on me for which it will do no good.
>>>>
>>>> I then tell her about my internship to end the call. “well, you are
>>>> good
>>>> at
>>>> finding internships, but lets look for a real job.” How insulting!
>>>> After
>>>> I
>>>> just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put down
>>>> an
>>>> internship where my foot will be in the door in the government  that
>>>> may
>>>> lead somewhere is insulting.
>>>>
>>>> Have anyone of you worked with or  known people who worked with job
>>>> placement specialists?  This counselor wants to refer me
>>>> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless he actually takes me out
>>>> to
>>>> go
>>>> in person to employers, its called cold calls. I asked her what he’d do
>>>> for
>>>> me and she was real vague.
>>>> “He’ll send you job leads.” she said.  She said something about job
>>>> announcements.
>>>>
>>>> I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I just am not sure I should work
>>>> with
>>>> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a waste of time.  I’d rather
>>>> have
>>>> vr work with me on things like a good cover letter, interview skills,
>>>> professional dos and don’ts, stuff like that. So, I’m wondering if any
>>>> of
>>>> you had this service and how it went.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net  Mon May 14 15:03:04 2012
From: brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net (Brian Hatgelakas)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 11:03:04 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
References: <19E927DAA3B144D9AE038B72199A8EBD@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOs6c0e9Qpt3S64DGS+Fin7UxsuD0+cdGm2cpL4OPmfO3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEB210E11A6A4F2A980C62AF26EF12BF@OwnerPC>
	<000301cd318a$4a03bfe0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAO83KOuBtc8fZ6+662nSA7ONcfe_THvByi0PaPL-QRh3oXNJnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000501cd31ca$280407c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAO83KOvX0EA8QXP2kPGg9GYZZjgrP5Jpcm6Bwwz0B4qVrEgYfg@mail.gmail.com>
	<000301cd31e1$93ded7b0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAO83KOvdmNA9EkkHw0tvO-BgC2UWh2h2wwHORXDH88re790Fxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <001101cd31e2$aa2b0b50$1400ba43@BRIAN>

Go to a four year college that's my best advice!  That way you'll be well 
rounded.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support


There isn't a broadcasting school, in Arkansas.
BTW, please send me the Website of the station, that you work for, off list.
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/14/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
> Do what I did go get your BA in broadcast Journalism and Mass
> Communications.  Intern at tons of stations and get college radio
> experience.  You can do it man!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 8:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>
>
> Amen!
> A field that I really wanted to pursue was broadcasting, but I don't
> have the means, to learn the trade!
> I don't have the equipment, or the resources.
> My VR counselor probably wouldn't help me in that endeavor, because
> the station I want to start, will be a Christian station.
> BTW, it gets worse, when you find out my situation!
> I'll start a new thread, going through the history of VR, in Arkansas.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/14/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> Agreed Josh and that's ashaim why do people go into that field if they
>> don't
>>
>> like helping others then?  If I pursue that degree I would help all my
>> clients as long as they were motivated!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 5:46 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>>
>>
>> Yeah, but some of them deserve to lose their jobs!
>> Just saying!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/13/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> These VR Counselors will never experience a "job loss" because their
>>> government jobs have it great!  with benifits good pay and government
>>> holidays off!
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:50 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Josh,
>>> No, this is an employee of the agency; its  a job placement specialist,
>>> not
>>> a center.
>>> My question is what do these people do? From the one blind client I
>>> spoke
>>> with, he said the specialist didn't do much of anything but told him to
>>> look
>>> online for job ads.
>>> I'll revise my sentence  from my first email.
>>>
>>> After  I just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to
>>> put
>>> down an internship where my foot will be in the door in the government
>>> that
>>> may lead somewhere is insulting.
>>> Not clear here what insulted me.
>>>
>>> After I just told her I looked and found few entry level jobs I
>>> qualified
>>> for, I told her I  had an internship coming where I could get my foot in
>>> the
>>> door in the government and this internship may lead to more permanent
>>> work,
>>> her comment about finding a real job insulted me.
>>>
>>> I'll add its like all she cares about getting clients jobs, not good
>>> careers, to heck with what they want to do, just get them jobs and close
>>> their cases.
>>> Not a good attitude.  Also, many college grads are doing just what I
>>> am--
>>> getting internships to hopefully lead to full time work. There was an
>>> article in the New york times about this.  Inexperienced young people
>>> cannot
>>> find work.  What world do vr counselors live in?
>>> Well not the real world where people are struggling and worried about
>>> lay
>>> off and people are losing homes or working three part time jobs to pay
>>> for
>>> the essentials of life.
>>> I'm trying to say its tough for anyone, and being
>>> blind makes it a little harder. A vr counselor should support you by
>>> giving
>>> you the skills to look for work and help you network, not throwing you
>>> to
>>> some so called specialist who probably just finds any job and if you
>>> take
>>> it
>>> they can close your case. No, I'll be bold and stand up to them and go
>>> for
>>> the job that fits my skills.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Joshua Lester
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:22 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>>>
>>> LWSB was a job placement center.
>>> You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS programs.
>>> If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to send you to LWSB, or
>>> a center like it!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject line for this complex issue.
>>>>
>>>> I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a general BA degree in liberal
>>>> studies; kind of where you make your won program to complete a degree;
>>>> I
>>>> picked  my concentrations of social sciences and communication. Then
>>>> after
>>>> some training at our state center, I pursued a writing certificate at
>>>> Nova,
>>>> northern Virginia community college.  I’m finishing that next semester.
>>>> I
>>>> wanted to add more to my resume and take classes specific to writing,
>>>> so
>>>> this was a good investment for me.  My career goal is broad; in this
>>>> economy
>>>> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind or not.
>>>> I desire to work in something to help people. I’m thinking outreach,
>>>> communication, customer service, or development.  I want to work with a
>>>> team
>>>> of people in an office.
>>>>
>>>> That is some background.  Now as we all know getting a job is tough
>>>> with
>>>> the
>>>> down economy and most jobs are gotten via networking anyway.
>>>> I networked via a disability mentoring day for customs and border
>>>> patrol;
>>>>
>>>> I
>>>> was refered for a unpaid internship in section 508 compliance after
>>>> following up with the disability program manager. I intend to get this
>>>> internship once going through their rigorrous background check.
>>>>
>>>> Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor.  I tell her I’m looking for
>>>> work
>>>> and explain barriers like lack of experience; visual tasks in entry
>>>> level
>>>> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data entry etc, etc.
>>>> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over my case and I wonder if
>>>> she
>>>> is
>>>> forcing a service on me for which it will do no good.
>>>>
>>>> I then tell her about my internship to end the call. “well, you are
>>>> good
>>>> at
>>>> finding internships, but lets look for a real job.” How insulting!
>>>> After
>>>> I
>>>> just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put down
>>>> an
>>>> internship where my foot will be in the door in the government  that
>>>> may
>>>> lead somewhere is insulting.
>>>>
>>>> Have anyone of you worked with or  known people who worked with job
>>>> placement specialists?  This counselor wants to refer me
>>>> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless he actually takes me out
>>>> to
>>>> go
>>>> in person to employers, its called cold calls. I asked her what he’d do
>>>> for
>>>> me and she was real vague.
>>>> “He’ll send you job leads.” she said.  She said something about job
>>>> announcements.
>>>>
>>>> I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I just am not sure I should work
>>>> with
>>>> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a waste of time.  I’d rather
>>>> have
>>>> vr work with me on things like a good cover letter, interview skills,
>>>> professional dos and don’ts, stuff like that. So, I’m wondering if any
>>>> of
>>>> you had this service and how it went.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>>
>>>
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>>
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 15:31:21 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 11:31:21 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOse_VpOcBUnLMZQS2QNtTJUnMBvBUMb0ayHEgqXLERzfw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f7381c3.e215440a.5e4e.ffffe4b0@mx.google.com><E2070599-9B38-4043-9343-68DBF697E468@gmail.com><9FD14F60E8114BDB805F99FD6C40730A@Espy><FA632E34-4566-4266-BAC8-A53CD8B99093@gmail.com><CA+N-3k2sF=3hNMoOZ_CO-waJJSTg-wKD1yKL6zkdgcO1Sv=XMg@mail.gmail.com><CAMJOM=0Vazw21mLFUaPwTBG93PCAfgqnbNtY3=ut1dASeVC93Q@mail.gmail.com><CA+N-3k3MvmpokLJxRiWB6_3x3ZSw5j5NYMhrgKfz7Fg0ZJWZZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOse_VpOcBUnLMZQS2QNtTJUnMBvBUMb0ayHEgqXLERzfw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <75D256D44B2D4BD398EEC55B1B7DB9DB@OwnerPC>

Hi,
I am thinking of joining facebook. I thought adding friends and requesting 
them was accessible. Is that right?
Can you write on other's walls?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 6:11 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question

I experimented with Facebook, last year.
I didn't like it, because I had problems, adding people, and sending 
messages.
Also, when I was in high school, I experimented with Myspace, and,
(IMO,) Myspace was more accessible than Facebook.
I've deleted both accounts, (BTW.)
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
> i don't know really how to do it, just that it does not work on the
> moble site. now for the phones, but not for computers using
> m.facebook.com
>
> On 3/28/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hmmm... any way to do this on iPhone?
>>
>> On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> it only works on the main facebook site.
>>>
>>> with love
>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>
>>> On 3/28/12, Stephanie DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I think so….on my android phone, if I am typing a comment and then 
>>>> press
>>>> the
>>>> menu/settings button on the phone, and there is an option for "people".
>>>> It
>>>> pulls up your friends list, and I select from that.
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Can you do it on the mobile site, or can it only be done with the
>>>>> regular
>>>>> facebook site?
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca"
>>>>> <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:36 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or something, 
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> write @ (the "at" symbol) and type their name.  A list of your
>>>>>> Facebook
>>>>>> friends should pop up, from which you can select who you want to tag.
>>>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone can
>>>>>>> give me
>>>>>>> the name and tell me how to do it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who also
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to 
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> page
>>>>>>> appears as well?  Is this called Tagging, or does that only happen 
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> photos?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some
>>>>>>> activity,
>>>>>>> they can mention others and have a link to their page.  If anyone
>>>>>>> knows,
>>>>>>> let
>>>>>>> me know as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site only?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 73
>>> kd8qiq
>>> jeff crouch
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via gmail.com
>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>> Skype: joshgregory93
>>  twitter: JoshG93
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> 73
> kd8qiq
> jeff crouch
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Mon May 14 14:36:14 2012
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 11:36:14 -0300
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
In-Reply-To: <75D256D44B2D4BD398EEC55B1B7DB9DB@OwnerPC>
References: <4f7381c3.e215440a.5e4e.ffffe4b0@mx.google.com><E2070599-9B38-4043-9343-68DBF697E468@gmail.com><9FD14F60E8114BDB805F99FD6C40730A@Espy><FA632E34-4566-4266-BAC8-A53CD8B99093@gmail.com><CA+N-3k2sF=3hNMoOZ_CO-waJJSTg-wKD1yKL6zkdgcO1Sv=XMg@mail.gmail.com><CAMJOM=0Vazw21mLFUaPwTBG93PCAfgqnbNtY3=ut1dASeVC93Q@mail.gmail.com><CA+N-3k3MvmpokLJxRiWB6_3x3ZSw5j5NYMhrgKfz7Fg0ZJWZZQ@mail.gmail.com><CAO83KOse_VpOcBUnLMZQS2QNtTJUnMBvBUMb0ayHEgqXLERzfw@mail.gmail.com>
	<75D256D44B2D4BD398EEC55B1B7DB9DB@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <2631E97681F24BA58FA9625116074E6A@userPC>

Yes Ashley you can.
Usem.facebook.com It's easyer with screene readers.
Rania,

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 12:31 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question

Hi,
I am thinking of joining facebook. I thought adding friends and requesting 
them was accessible. Is that right?
Can you write on other's walls?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 6:11 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question

I experimented with Facebook, last year.
I didn't like it, because I had problems, adding people, and sending 
messages.
Also, when I was in high school, I experimented with Myspace, and,
(IMO,) Myspace was more accessible than Facebook.
I've deleted both accounts, (BTW.)
Blessings, Joshua

On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
> i don't know really how to do it, just that it does not work on the
> moble site. now for the phones, but not for computers using
> m.facebook.com
>
> On 3/28/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hmmm... any way to do this on iPhone?
>>
>> On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> it only works on the main facebook site.
>>>
>>> with love
>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>
>>> On 3/28/12, Stephanie DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I think so..on my android phone, if I am typing a comment and then 
>>>> press
>>>> the
>>>> menu/settings button on the phone, and there is an option for "people".
>>>> It
>>>> pulls up your friends list, and I select from that.
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Can you do it on the mobile site, or can it only be done with the
>>>>> regular
>>>>> facebook site?
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca"
>>>>> <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:36 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or something, 
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> write @ (the "at" symbol) and type their name.  A list of your
>>>>>> Facebook
>>>>>> friends should pop up, from which you can select who you want to tag.
>>>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone can
>>>>>>> give me
>>>>>>> the name and tell me how to do it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who also
>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to 
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> page
>>>>>>> appears as well?  Is this called Tagging, or does that only happen 
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> photos?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some
>>>>>>> activity,
>>>>>>> they can mention others and have a link to their page.  If anyone
>>>>>>> knows,
>>>>>>> let
>>>>>>> me know as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site only?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 73
>>> kd8qiq
>>> jeff crouch
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via gmail.com
>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>> Skype: joshgregory93
>>  twitter: JoshG93
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> 73
> kd8qiq
> jeff crouch
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p
ccua.edu
>

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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net 


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m



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 15:39:21 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 11:39:21 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] Fw: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines isno
	longeraccessible using speech [Incident: 120307-000422]
In-Reply-To: <4f761daf.9021e00a.1958.ffffb26c@mx.google.com>
References: <4f761daf.9021e00a.1958.ffffb26c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <30269708464F4774A9C2774C5265643C@OwnerPC>

Did they ever make the site accessible?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 4:54 PM
To: Blind Talk Mailing List ; NFB NABS list ; NFB Talk List
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] Fw: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines isno 
longeraccessible using speech [Incident: 120307-000422]

Reese,

Great advocacy on your part!! Good for you!! It appears as though
Spirit Airlines is trying to make some kind of excuse for their
inaccessible Web site, and are politely dismissing the complaints
which you have filed with them as having no real legal backing.
After all, blind people can't possibly know the law, right?
Spirit Airlines has people to investigate this; just trust them!
But the problem is that these legal "experts" work for the very
company which is the subject of your complaints.  So it is only
natural that they will try to find some law or regulation to
cover their you-know-what's.  Maybe the DOT doesn't require them
to make their Web site accessible to us, but a law that
supercedes any DOT regulation, the ADA (passed by Congress and
signed into law by the then-President in 1990,) that does.  In
short, this response by Michelle of Spirit Airlines, in my
opinion, boils down to this: "The DOT doesn't require us to make
our Web site accessible, and therefore your complaint has no
legal precedent.  As far as we can tell, we're following the law,
so screw all you blind people!"

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Reese" <atlanticstar1 at gmail.com
To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
sent: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 13:55:57 -0400
Subject: [Blindtlk] Fw: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no
longeraccessible using speech [Incident: 120307-000422]

Please circulate this message where ever you feel its
appropriate.

----- Original Message -----

Hello list:

Here's the final word from Spirit Airlines regarding there
inaccessible
website.  It will follow my final reply to them.  Again the US
Department of
Transportation has dropped the ball on this one just like they
did with the
accessible airport boarding.

Reese

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peachtreetravel.net" <reservations at peachtreetravel.net
To: "Spirit Airlines" <spiritair at mailnj.custhelp.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 1:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer
accessible
using speech [Incident: 120307-000422]


Dear Michelle:

First I want to thank you for researching this serious matter
both for me
and all of the members of my Organization.   Regretfully I'll
have to inform
the 50,000 members of my organization to do business else where
until Spirit
Airlines website is accessible once again.  For this is the only
way to
achieve fare and equal access.

I will check back from time to time to see if true access ever
returns to
spirit Airlines and will keep my members up to date.  It has been
good doing
business with you and hopefully we
can resume doing business again in the future.

Sincerely yours,

Maurice P Shackelford

----- Original Message -----
From: "Spirit Airlines" <spiritair at mailnj.custhelp.com
To: <reservations at peachtreetravel.net
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 9:38 AM
Subject: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer
accessible using
speech [Incident: 120307-000422]



Subject
---------------------------------------------------------------
[Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer accessible using
speech


Discussion Thread
---------------------------------------------------------------
(Michelle 62611) - 03/27/2012 09:38 AM
Dear Mr.  Shackelford,

Thank you for your patience as we investigated this matter
thoroughly.

We sincerely regret that you are unable to access the check box
for the $9
Fare Club membership and or the check box at the end of the
booking.
However, this is not a violation of DOT's disability rule.
Please be advised
that airlines are governed under the Department of Transportation
and their
disability rule, 14 CFR 382, and are under no legal obligation to
provide an
accessible website.  We are required, under 14 CFR 382.31(c), to
disclose
web-based discount fares to any prospective passenger who
contacts the
carrier via other normal channels for inquiring about fares,
making a
reservation, or purchasing transportation (e.g.  telephone
reservation line,
airport ticket counter) and states that he or she has a visual
impairment
and is unable to use the website.  The carrier must sell a
web-based discount fare to such a person if his or her itinerary
qualifies
for the fare as it is offered on the web (e.g., same cities and
dates).

Our IT Department has reviewed your claim and they have informed
me that
they changed the boxes on our booking path to styled check boxes
which don't
work in the browser types you've attempted to use.  The change
was made
nearly a year ago and this has been the first complaint brought
to their
attention on the matter.  They are reviewing options to allow
these types of
browsers to work with the needed functionality for our customers
with visual
impairments.

I regret that I cannot offer more information on the matter, but
thank you
for bringing this to our attention.

Please note, if you ever encounter problems when traveling with
us, feel
free to ask our Spirit Airlines customer service personnel for a
Complaint
Resolution Official (CRO).  Our CROs have been specially trained
and are
aware of applicable Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and
Department of
Transportation (DOT) disability regulations.  Our CROs are
available at all
airport locations and will be glad to respond to your concerns.

We trust we have addressed you concerns in a satisfactory manner;
however,
if you choose to pursue enforcement action, you have the right to
contact
the Department of Transportation, in accordance with ACAA and DOT
rule 14
CFR Part 382.

Please feel free to contact me if you ever require assistance.
We know you
have a choice in air travel and are grateful you choose Spirit
Airlines.

Sincerely,

Michelle 62611
Disability Specialist/
Corporate Escalation Officer
Spirit Airlines


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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 16:44:58 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 12:44:58 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Concerned about a class, I'm taking, this Fall
In-Reply-To: <CAERFTu6vQV2nJUnKV8h_kvgse7H_k37A_LFK6Lbxm4+xbPC_8Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO83KOuU2V5Pb3NvF5mvnWe0ECtUk=kfu7ffScTkW4jox7FhmA@mail.gmail.com><000001cd1b05$681b04c0$38510e40$@mchsi.com><CAO83KOsL-xo75+zmhC4DHsYTyxXRr6-OsO+7nCAQ8CasTQm+sA@mail.gmail.com><auto-000057073769@mailfront3.g2host.com><CAO83KOt6=s+8W9K13NHNT2CCA6sojnjU4QXBcMuF-su7JUFmNA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAERFTu6vQV2nJUnKV8h_kvgse7H_k37A_LFK6Lbxm4+xbPC_8Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7A64C575153B47B8B32DD9634144C8D5@OwnerPC>

Joshua,
curious if you decided to take the class. I think if you work with the 
professor and have him/her describe pictures and make diagrams for you as 
well as touch models and memorize the info, you will be fine. I doubt 
they'll braille the book for you. Even if they get it brailled, most 
transcribers do not include diagrams in the book. If you want to see pre 
made diagrams of the body systems, APH has two volumes of this. Not sure 
what its called but they are diagrams with brief descriptions of the parts 
on the next page.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Chrys Buckley
Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 5:20 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Concerned about a class, I'm taking, this Fall

Hi Joshua,

I took A&P last year. It was a year-long course and ended up being one of
my favorite classes I've ever taken. I remember being pretty nervous about
it before the class started because you always hear about what a visual
class A&P is, but it ended up being fine.

A lot of people already gave you good suggestions and encouragement. I'm
just going to add a few things:

There are a lot of hands-on opportunities with A&P. For example, the
articulating skeletons that someone mentioned. In my lab we also had lots
of models that were tactile. For example, we had these huge model arms and
legs with the muscles very defined so that you could feel them as a way of
learning the muscles and their origins and insertions and get a feel for
how they move. A lot of the articulating skeletons also have marks where
the muscles originate and insert and so these can always be labeled. We
also had model organs and model tissue layers, all very tactile.

Your class may also do dissections and/or work with cadavers. If so, this
is great because again you will be able to explore these in a tactile way.
My class had both animal organs as well as cadavers and many things can
easily be distinguished by touch. A great example is blood vessels. Many of
the sighted students had a very difficult time with this because there are
so many, but really feeling the differences was a huge advantage (veins and
arteries feel very different from each other, for example). What I did in
my class for quizzes was go into the cadaver room with an assistant and I
would feel the different parts we were supposed to identify and spell them
out to a lab assistant who would record them for me.

The class was a lot of work but so, so interesting. The physiology part is
not so visual as the anatomy. And it will definitely have tons of
applications in behavioral health! I wish you look and hope that you have a
great class and really get to enjoy it!

Chrys

On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 6:53 AM, Joshua Lester <
jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:

> I'll join it, when I get back from church.
> That's a great idea, because I'll have to have alot of these classes,
> for my Behavioral Health degree.
> I don't understand why I'd need A and P, for Behavioral health, though.
>
>
> On 4/15/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> > You might also ask for suggestions on the nfb-science list,
> >
> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-science_nfbnet.org
> >
> > to join.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > At 07:52 AM 4/15/2012, you wrote:
> >>Thanks for the encouragement.
> >>I'll try to make sure, and get a reader for diagrams.
> >>I'm about to get my notetaker, this Fall, so that will be a plus, as
> well!
> >>Blessings, Joshua
> >>
> >>On 4/15/12, Loren <isaiah5719 at mchsi.com> wrote:
> >> > Joshua,
> >> >
> >> > Several yeaars ago now, my wife took an a and p course. She was in
> >> > speech
> >> > pathology at the time.  She had a reader attend some classes with her
> to
> >> > make raised-line drawings of various things.  She also used
> arrangements
> >> > ahead of time with the professor to take the exams.  She was able to
> >> > complete the course.  She is a very good braille reader and was
> >> able to take
> >> > some notes herself as well.  She mainly used the reader to get the
> >> > diagrams
> >> > down.  I wish you well on the course.  Just remember you have the
> right
> >> > to
> >> > be there; so, kick butt and make sure you get what you needf.
> >> >
> >> > Loren Wakefield
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> >> > Of Joshua Lester
> >> > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 10:34 AM
> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> >> > Subject: [nabs-l] Concerned about a class, I'm taking, this Fall
> >> >
> >> > Have any of you ever taken Intro to A and P, (Anatomy, and
> >> Physiology?) This
> >> > is going to be a visual class, so I really need Braille, and my
> >> Rehab people
> >> > aren't cooperating!
> >> > They're using their own resources, instead of the group, I asked them
> to
> >> > use!
> >> > This, is frustrating!
> >> > Thanks, Joshua
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cbuckley%40pdx.edu
>



-- 
http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com
_______________________________________________
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 16:53:53 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 12:53:53 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] new york advice on apartments
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOs8kBSUCMCC1TDe4dBDS5iLKSyqg7OzWe_8Ck2kYXK=jw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <335C74F1BC8141FC92C2DF1A3816A9F3@klhurstl1><BLU0-SMTP5512A118579C5784E1A5C6DC3F0@phx.gbl><001301cd1caa$34fff4a0$1400ba43@BRIAN><CAO83KOutt7tcn7Jm2V9oTqVNHcCCv29rJXK9ho6JP7j1vb4DXw@mail.gmail.com><9587D8DBA2E54298A601B86A56F37376@Gloria>
	<CAO83KOs8kBSUCMCC1TDe4dBDS5iLKSyqg7OzWe_8Ck2kYXK=jw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <38D9E10EBED5490D838FB81F8DD5DC22@OwnerPC>

Hi,
its illegal to discriminate, but many land lords do it. Anyone know if they 
have to let you make accomodations such as replacing inaccessible appliances 
with ones you can use?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 11:20 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] new york advice on apartments

Your landlords are complying with the ADA, and I applaud them for it!
These guys, aren't!
Blessings, Joshua

On 4/17/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
> I have gotten apartments on my own as a blind person and have had no 
> issues.
> The landlords were really open minded and willing to change certain things
> in the apartment to being more accessible for me like putting in a talking
> thermastat.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 9:59 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] new york advice on apartments
>
>
>> The law states, that they can't discriminate against anyone,
>> regardless of race, orientation, or disability.
>> What's the problem?
>> Someone needs to ask Mr LaBarre, to sue the landlords, in question.
>> With his experience, as a lawyer, it's an easy case to win!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 4/17/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Why would land lords discriminate against blind people?  This
>>> discrimination
>>> is illegal.  My girl friend is sighted but also is African American.  If
>>> she
>>> was discriminated against their would be a tough law suit ahead.  If the
>>> Blacks aren't discriminated against anymore why are these practices 
>>> still
>>> enacted towards blind people?  Those that discriminate against us should
>>> get
>>> in as much trouble as discriminating against a black person.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Wmodnl" <wmodnl at hotmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 8:30 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] new york advice on apartments
>>>
>>>
>>>> Good morning.  First, are you on any of the federal housing programs
>>>> like
>>>> section 8?  On your limited income, that is the only way you both will
>>>> be
>>>> able to obtain an apartment on your own.  The other option would be to
>>>> look for roommates to share a place.  Good luck with that, when they 
>>>> see
>>>> you are blind they are going to run! run! run! or never show an effort
>>>> to
>>>> share the place with you.  Forget the fact that there are two of you.
>>>> I apologize in advance for sounding cynical; however, I want to be
>>>> truthful and not sugar cote the truth.  Landlords in NYC as well as the
>>>> rest of the USA will not want a blind person, let alone 2 b/c of
>>>> liability
>>>>
>>>> issues, etc.
>>>> Have a strong presentation, be ready for much rejection.  Also be ready
>>>> to
>>>>
>>>> be offered many many scams.  Have someone sighted go with you to make
>>>> shore that what you are being offered is really the offer.
>>>> I remember someone being open to me and showing no issue to my
>>>> blindness.
>>>> When we saw the apartment, everything seemed great.  However, the
>>>> sighted
>>>> person told me later to not take it since wholes were up high in the
>>>> walls, mouse droppings were in the rugs, tiles in the bathroom and
>>>> hallway
>>>>
>>>> were missing with exposed pipes and wires.  I called the real-estate
>>>> office later thanking them for insulting me as a person and there
>>>> response
>>>>
>>>> was one of shock.  The representative said in many words that he/she
>>>> wanted me to be grateful for the apartment and that they were "willing
>>>> to
>>>> rent to a blind person"  Good luck, I hope all goes well for you, and
>>>> let
>>>> me know what you come up with.  You may want to wait on waiting lists
>>>> for
>>>> apartments through HUD or other programs and postpone your move to NYC
>>>> for
>>>>
>>>> a good number of years.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> William O'Donnell, distributor
>>>> Organo Gold Enterprises, INC.
>>>> www.willsholistics.organogold.com
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>> On Apr 16, 2012, at 1:34 PM, "keri" <wvucountrygirl729 at gmail.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> greetings,
>>>>>
>>>>> My bf and I are about to move into an apartment in the New York City
>>>>> area.... We both live on SSI for the time being... We are in need of
>>>>> apartment recommendations that we can aford... We are both college
>>>>> students. We prefer Statin Island but are open to suggestions in the
>>>>> city
>>>>>
>>>>> area.
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> keri
>>>>>
>>>>> "Sometimes your nearness takes my breath away; and all the things I
>>>>> want
>>>>> to say can find no voice. Then, in silence, I can only hope my eyes
>>>>> will
>>>>> speak my heart."
>>>>> --Robert Sexton
>>>>>
>>>>> "For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth
>>>>> there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart
>>>>> somewhere to receive it."
>>>>> --Ivan Panin
>>>>>
>>>>> Find that guy that will pick up every piece of your shattered heart &
>>>>> put
>>>>>
>>>>> it back together; Replacing it with a piece of his.
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brian.hatgelakas%40verizon.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>

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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon May 14 17:06:33 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 12:06:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Concerned about a class, I'm taking, this Fall
In-Reply-To: <7A64C575153B47B8B32DD9634144C8D5@OwnerPC>
References: <CAO83KOuU2V5Pb3NvF5mvnWe0ECtUk=kfu7ffScTkW4jox7FhmA@mail.gmail.com>
	<000001cd1b05$681b04c0$38510e40$@mchsi.com>
	<CAO83KOsL-xo75+zmhC4DHsYTyxXRr6-OsO+7nCAQ8CasTQm+sA@mail.gmail.com>
	<auto-000057073769@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<CAO83KOt6=s+8W9K13NHNT2CCA6sojnjU4QXBcMuF-su7JUFmNA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAERFTu6vQV2nJUnKV8h_kvgse7H_k37A_LFK6Lbxm4+xbPC_8Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<7A64C575153B47B8B32DD9634144C8D5@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOubKp7AWVt0yQcF5kqN28_onj-92pmQo_Gk12wT9SBPjg@mail.gmail.com>

I'm taking the class.
We've discussed that, and we're going that route.
Also, I should be getting my books in Braille, which will also help!
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Joshua,
> curious if you decided to take the class. I think if you work with the
> professor and have him/her describe pictures and make diagrams for you as
> well as touch models and memorize the info, you will be fine. I doubt
> they'll braille the book for you. Even if they get it brailled, most
> transcribers do not include diagrams in the book. If you want to see pre
> made diagrams of the body systems, APH has two volumes of this. Not sure
> what its called but they are diagrams with brief descriptions of the parts
> on the next page.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chrys Buckley
> Sent: Monday, April 16, 2012 5:20 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Concerned about a class, I'm taking, this Fall
>
> Hi Joshua,
>
> I took A&P last year. It was a year-long course and ended up being one of
> my favorite classes I've ever taken. I remember being pretty nervous about
> it before the class started because you always hear about what a visual
> class A&P is, but it ended up being fine.
>
> A lot of people already gave you good suggestions and encouragement. I'm
> just going to add a few things:
>
> There are a lot of hands-on opportunities with A&P. For example, the
> articulating skeletons that someone mentioned. In my lab we also had lots
> of models that were tactile. For example, we had these huge model arms and
> legs with the muscles very defined so that you could feel them as a way of
> learning the muscles and their origins and insertions and get a feel for
> how they move. A lot of the articulating skeletons also have marks where
> the muscles originate and insert and so these can always be labeled. We
> also had model organs and model tissue layers, all very tactile.
>
> Your class may also do dissections and/or work with cadavers. If so, this
> is great because again you will be able to explore these in a tactile way.
> My class had both animal organs as well as cadavers and many things can
> easily be distinguished by touch. A great example is blood vessels. Many of
> the sighted students had a very difficult time with this because there are
> so many, but really feeling the differences was a huge advantage (veins and
> arteries feel very different from each other, for example). What I did in
> my class for quizzes was go into the cadaver room with an assistant and I
> would feel the different parts we were supposed to identify and spell them
> out to a lab assistant who would record them for me.
>
> The class was a lot of work but so, so interesting. The physiology part is
> not so visual as the anatomy. And it will definitely have tons of
> applications in behavioral health! I wish you look and hope that you have a
> great class and really get to enjoy it!
>
> Chrys
>
> On Sun, Apr 15, 2012 at 6:53 AM, Joshua Lester <
> jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>
>> I'll join it, when I get back from church.
>> That's a great idea, because I'll have to have alot of these classes,
>> for my Behavioral Health degree.
>> I don't understand why I'd need A and P, for Behavioral health, though.
>>
>>
>> On 4/15/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>> > You might also ask for suggestions on the nfb-science list,
>> >
>> > http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-science_nfbnet.org
>> >
>> > to join.
>> >
>> > Dave
>> >
>> > At 07:52 AM 4/15/2012, you wrote:
>> >>Thanks for the encouragement.
>> >>I'll try to make sure, and get a reader for diagrams.
>> >>I'm about to get my notetaker, this Fall, so that will be a plus, as
>> well!
>> >>Blessings, Joshua
>> >>
>> >>On 4/15/12, Loren <isaiah5719 at mchsi.com> wrote:
>> >> > Joshua,
>> >> >
>> >> > Several yeaars ago now, my wife took an a and p course. She was in
>> >> > speech
>> >> > pathology at the time.  She had a reader attend some classes with
>> >> > her
>> to
>> >> > make raised-line drawings of various things.  She also used
>> arrangements
>> >> > ahead of time with the professor to take the exams.  She was able to
>> >> > complete the course.  She is a very good braille reader and was
>> >> able to take
>> >> > some notes herself as well.  She mainly used the reader to get the
>> >> > diagrams
>> >> > down.  I wish you well on the course.  Just remember you have the
>> right
>> >> > to
>> >> > be there; so, kick butt and make sure you get what you needf.
>> >> >
>> >> > Loren Wakefield
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> >> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> >> > Of Joshua Lester
>> >> > Sent: Friday, April 13, 2012 10:34 AM
>> >> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> >> > Subject: [nabs-l] Concerned about a class, I'm taking, this Fall
>> >> >
>> >> > Have any of you ever taken Intro to A and P, (Anatomy, and
>> >> Physiology?) This
>> >> > is going to be a visual class, so I really need Braille, and my
>> >> Rehab people
>> >> > aren't cooperating!
>> >> > They're using their own resources, instead of the group, I asked
>> >> > them
>> to
>> >> > use!
>> >> > This, is frustrating!
>> >> > Thanks, Joshua
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> >
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cbuckley%40pdx.edu
>>
>
>
>
> --
> http://chrysanthymum.blogspot.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 17:10:43 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 13:10:43 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] hello
In-Reply-To: <CAC0sDO4QHbh0A-saK_x6TVkd3mvsLs9qWcCj_rPwJXpxj8dfxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC0sDO4QHbh0A-saK_x6TVkd3mvsLs9qWcCj_rPwJXpxj8dfxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26B3A49C7E6A4D4297025D4C5108E5DA@OwnerPC>

Laurel,
This is a bit late response, but welcome to the list. I recently finished a 
busy semester.
I am a continuing education student at a community college; I have my degree 
already but I'm studying more while I look for work. This writing 
certificate has definitely enhanced my skills and practice in writing.
How do you study foreign languages? It can be  kind of visual with pictures; 
I know they used that in spanish when I took it in high school. Do you use 
braille?  I would think so otherwise you cannot see the spelling of words.
I hope you enjoy the list.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Laurel
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:30 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] hello

Hi all,
I just joined this list so I wanted to take a moment to introduce
myself. My name is Laurel. I am a 20 year old college student in the
Dallas, TX area. I study French and Russian. I have a working guide
dog named Stockard. Stockard is a female yellow lab from Guide Dogs
for the Blind and she will turn 4 in September. We have been a team
for 2 years. I hope to get to know all of you well.
Laurel and Stockard

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 17:04:55 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 13:04:55 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
In-Reply-To: <008501cd1cd4$364b9560$a2e2c020$@mchsi.com>
References: <CAL57mpFmePWq_psp52GM-vtFyhHsAGjaHO1hbBS1Um+WKXY4Fg@mail.gmail.com>
	<008501cd1cd4$364b9560$a2e2c020$@mchsi.com>
Message-ID: <7B1E894D8D294C52A5DF89EA9610306A@OwnerPC>

I've always dreamed of a braille display, all expensive. How much is the 
focus and does it come in different cell lengths? Like can you get one with 
20 celss vs 40?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Loren
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 3:56 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer

I think I would go with the focus.  It is less expensive than the
brailliant.

Loren Wakefield



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Amanda Cape
Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 7:52 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer

Hi fellow listers,
I am looking into getting a braille display that could work with my iphone
and computer. Which one do you recommend? The brailliant or the focs 40
blue? What model of the brailliant if you recommend that one?
Amanda

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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 17:17:57 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 13:17:57 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] College
In-Reply-To: <4f911d7b.6232b60a.4ab3.fffff170@mx.google.com>
References: <4f911d7b.6232b60a.4ab3.fffff170@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <E89D1A1707D54575ABD4B99663A7A029@OwnerPC>

Lanie,
I had time today to read some old messages.
I believe you said you dropped the course. But for next time, I have some 
ideas. It may not be what most NFB members would do, but I figure sometimes 
we have to use other's help. Why not see  a safe place to store your 
brailler and books at school? Then pick them up at the end of the day or 
week.  What I mean there is if your class is tuesday and thursday, pick the 
brailler up thursday.

I'd see if you can store the stuff in your professor's office, a locker if 
the school has them, or another office near your classroom. Explain that its 
taxing to haul them around campus.  A librarian offered to store my tape 
recording device with her; I use it to record readers. I didn't even ask 
her, she just offered, I declined politely as I was fine carrying it around. 
But it was nice of her to offer.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Lanie
Sent: Friday, April 20, 2012 4:25 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] College

Hi all.  I was wondering if anyone could give me advice on this.
I'm taking Calculus 2 in college and have to carry around several
Braille volumes so that I can keep up, a Brailler, my
BrailleNote, Braille paper, and an APH Graphing Aid for
Mathematics, all in a huge rolling bag.  I have reason to think
that all this is messing up my back.  I don't know how to lighten
the load, but I can't keep carrxing it.  I've already talked with
the Office for Students with Disabilities coordinator, but they
don't have any Braillers.  How do any others on this list who are
taking classes with huge Braille books and other things like this
do it? Do you use a large bag like I do? Any advice here would be
great! Thanks.

_______________________________________________
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon May 14 17:17:56 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 12:17:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
In-Reply-To: <7B1E894D8D294C52A5DF89EA9610306A@OwnerPC>
References: <CAL57mpFmePWq_psp52GM-vtFyhHsAGjaHO1hbBS1Um+WKXY4Fg@mail.gmail.com>
	<008501cd1cd4$364b9560$a2e2c020$@mchsi.com>
	<7B1E894D8D294C52A5DF89EA9610306A@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOujpDmDej1jqs6jYmQCh88zttBGQGtzi4FB9A3qA9ooyQ@mail.gmail.com>

The Focus 40 Blue, is $2695.00.
Too expensive for me!
I'd bet, that the 20 cell is half that!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I've always dreamed of a braille display, all expensive. How much is the
> focus and does it come in different cell lengths? Like can you get one with
>
> 20 celss vs 40?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loren
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 3:56 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
>
> I think I would go with the focus.  It is less expensive than the
> brailliant.
>
> Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Amanda Cape
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 7:52 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
>
> Hi fellow listers,
> I am looking into getting a braille display that could work with my iphone
> and computer. Which one do you recommend? The brailliant or the focs 40
> blue? What model of the brailliant if you recommend that one?
> Amanda
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From laurel.stockard at gmail.com  Mon May 14 17:32:31 2012
From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 12:32:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] hello
In-Reply-To: <26B3A49C7E6A4D4297025D4C5108E5DA@OwnerPC>
References: <CAC0sDO4QHbh0A-saK_x6TVkd3mvsLs9qWcCj_rPwJXpxj8dfxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<26B3A49C7E6A4D4297025D4C5108E5DA@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAC0sDO6pRWoeNZQTz23_0qAQW9cbWOa+4KH+o5Qh+JxqT7MVLg@mail.gmail.com>

HI Ashley,
I use braille, but I mainly work with a laptop and screen reader. I
just memorize the spelling of the words and I use a Russian and Arabic
language keyboards, so all I have to do is memorize which letters are
where on the keyboard, and the order of letters in the words and it
works fine. It's hard at first, but after awhile it's not too bad at
all.
Laurel and Stockard

On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Laurel,
> This is a bit late response, but welcome to the list. I recently finished a
>
> busy semester.
> I am a continuing education student at a community college; I have my degree
>
> already but I'm studying more while I look for work. This writing
> certificate has definitely enhanced my skills and practice in writing.
> How do you study foreign languages? It can be  kind of visual with pictures;
>
> I know they used that in spanish when I took it in high school. Do you use
> braille?  I would think so otherwise you cannot see the spelling of words.
> I hope you enjoy the list.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Laurel
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:30 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] hello
>
> Hi all,
> I just joined this list so I wanted to take a moment to introduce
> myself. My name is Laurel. I am a 20 year old college student in the
> Dallas, TX area. I study French and Russian. I have a working guide
> dog named Stockard. Stockard is a female yellow lab from Guide Dogs
> for the Blind and she will turn 4 in September. We have been a team
> for 2 years. I hope to get to know all of you well.
> Laurel and Stockard
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com
>


From laurel.stockard at gmail.com  Mon May 14 17:44:05 2012
From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 12:44:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
In-Reply-To: <2631E97681F24BA58FA9625116074E6A@userPC>
References: <4f7381c3.e215440a.5e4e.ffffe4b0@mx.google.com>
	<E2070599-9B38-4043-9343-68DBF697E468@gmail.com>
	<9FD14F60E8114BDB805F99FD6C40730A@Espy>
	<FA632E34-4566-4266-BAC8-A53CD8B99093@gmail.com>
	<CA+N-3k2sF=3hNMoOZ_CO-waJJSTg-wKD1yKL6zkdgcO1Sv=XMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJOM=0Vazw21mLFUaPwTBG93PCAfgqnbNtY3=ut1dASeVC93Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+N-3k3MvmpokLJxRiWB6_3x3ZSw5j5NYMhrgKfz7Fg0ZJWZZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOse_VpOcBUnLMZQS2QNtTJUnMBvBUMb0ayHEgqXLERzfw@mail.gmail.com>
	<75D256D44B2D4BD398EEC55B1B7DB9DB@OwnerPC>
	<2631E97681F24BA58FA9625116074E6A@userPC>
Message-ID: <CAC0sDO7UudpgsMZe93bN2=c3ynW5y0D6NnkM+X=QjTUObfQQpw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, you can add friends, write on people's walls, comment on things
and post things fairly easily. If you ever need help, please feel free
to write me off list at laurel.stockard at gmail.com and I'd be happy to
help you out. What screen reading technology do you use?
Laurel and Stockard

On 5/14/12, Rania Ismail CMT <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes Ashley you can.
> Usem.facebook.com It's easyer with screene readers.
> Rania,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 12:31 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
>
> Hi,
> I am thinking of joining facebook. I thought adding friends and requesting
> them was accessible. Is that right?
> Can you write on other's walls?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 6:11 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
>
> I experimented with Facebook, last year.
> I didn't like it, because I had problems, adding people, and sending
> messages.
> Also, when I was in high school, I experimented with Myspace, and,
> (IMO,) Myspace was more accessible than Facebook.
> I've deleted both accounts, (BTW.)
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
>> i don't know really how to do it, just that it does not work on the
>> moble site. now for the phones, but not for computers using
>> m.facebook.com
>>
>> On 3/28/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hmmm... any way to do this on iPhone?
>>>
>>> On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> it only works on the main facebook site.
>>>>
>>>> with love
>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>
>>>> On 3/28/12, Stephanie DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I think so..on my android phone, if I am typing a comment and then
>>>>> press
>>>>> the
>>>>> menu/settings button on the phone, and there is an option for
>>>>> "people".
>>>>> It
>>>>> pulls up your friends list, and I select from that.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you do it on the mobile site, or can it only be done with the
>>>>>> regular
>>>>>> facebook site?
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca"
>>>>>> <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:36 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or something,
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>> write @ (the "at" symbol) and type their name.  A list of your
>>>>>>> Facebook
>>>>>>> friends should pop up, from which you can select who you want to
>>>>>>> tag.
>>>>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> give me
>>>>>>>> the name and tell me how to do it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who also
>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> page
>>>>>>>> appears as well?  Is this called Tagging, or does that only happen
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> photos?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some
>>>>>>>> activity,
>>>>>>>> they can mention others and have a link to their page.  If anyone
>>>>>>>> knows,
>>>>>>>> let
>>>>>>>> me know as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site
>>>>>>>> only?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> 73
>>>> kd8qiq
>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent via gmail.com
>>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>> Skype: joshgregory93
>>>  twitter: JoshG93
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 73
>> kd8qiq
>> jeff crouch
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p
> ccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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> m
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>
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 17:49:50 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 13:49:50 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] hello
In-Reply-To: <CAC0sDO6pRWoeNZQTz23_0qAQW9cbWOa+4KH+o5Qh+JxqT7MVLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAC0sDO4QHbh0A-saK_x6TVkd3mvsLs9qWcCj_rPwJXpxj8dfxw@mail.gmail.com><26B3A49C7E6A4D4297025D4C5108E5DA@OwnerPC>
	<CAC0sDO6pRWoeNZQTz23_0qAQW9cbWOa+4KH+o5Qh+JxqT7MVLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <642B2EBC4A2141BBBDB01B859E5A9EC6@OwnerPC>

Hi,
well then you have a great memory. I could never study all auditorily. I 
studied my vocabulary with braille and writing it again and again when I was 
in spanish.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Laurel
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:32 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello

HI Ashley,
I use braille, but I mainly work with a laptop and screen reader. I
just memorize the spelling of the words and I use a Russian and Arabic
language keyboards, so all I have to do is memorize which letters are
where on the keyboard, and the order of letters in the words and it
works fine. It's hard at first, but after awhile it's not too bad at
all.
Laurel and Stockard

On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Laurel,
> This is a bit late response, but welcome to the list. I recently finished 
> a
>
> busy semester.
> I am a continuing education student at a community college; I have my 
> degree
>
> already but I'm studying more while I look for work. This writing
> certificate has definitely enhanced my skills and practice in writing.
> How do you study foreign languages? It can be  kind of visual with 
> pictures;
>
> I know they used that in spanish when I took it in high school. Do you use
> braille?  I would think so otherwise you cannot see the spelling of words.
> I hope you enjoy the list.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Laurel
> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:30 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] hello
>
> Hi all,
> I just joined this list so I wanted to take a moment to introduce
> myself. My name is Laurel. I am a 20 year old college student in the
> Dallas, TX area. I study French and Russian. I have a working guide
> dog named Stockard. Stockard is a female yellow lab from Guide Dogs
> for the Blind and she will turn 4 in September. We have been a team
> for 2 years. I hope to get to know all of you well.
> Laurel and Stockard
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>

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From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Mon May 14 17:50:09 2012
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 10:50:09 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] May Nabs Membership Call: Math.
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjMM4bC=4FeiTvdS4JOx7sXfMAnQYr9fZJ5p067=OWYedg@mail.gmail.com>

Greetings Fellow Students!


  It’s the source of most scholastic anxiety.
It is that one part of the class schedule you cannot stand to think
about, let alone look at.  For most students it is a four letter word
(well, it’s actually a word four letters long)...
 MATH!!!

 Well, fear not, for we have something that might help you out (no,
not a “get out of math free” card).

 The National Association of Blind Students Presents:  Math: mastering
the monster.
 Yes, the title is a little dramatic, but maybe after this call, the
idea of working with numbers will be less   traumatic to you then
before it!

  When? Sunday 5/20/2012 at 7 p.m. ET
Where? Conference Call (712) 775 – 7100 and enter code 257963
Why?  Are you a Student?... do  we need to explain any further
 ?
  We look forward to having you!

   NABS Membership committee


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Mon May 14 17:47:29 2012
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 10:47:29 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
In-Reply-To: <C50F489E11C74A378F4D6C4C18C7DE50@userPC>
References: <4F9814A3.6050203@gmail.com>
	<646578647CFA476F8DAB20F2CE0C9131@OwnerPC>
	<42ABB58C-FF72-475B-9540-C3813B30CA84@gmail.com>
	<C50F489E11C74A378F4D6C4C18C7DE50@userPC>
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjPcN08u22VPjq3zuNC29mJVvZRwaM6-EqJBYHkjq+ohZA@mail.gmail.com>

Chris:

 If it's a good  topic for a future membership call, how can people
get a hold of  the membership committee?  :)
  Best,
  Darian

On 4/25/12, Rania Ismail CMT <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree.
> Rania,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Jorge Paez
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 8:05 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
>
> Certainly.
> I think this would be very helpful.
>
>
> On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
>
>> good idea
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Antonio Guimaraes
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 11:13 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
>>
>> I don't know if this is something NABS would want to undertake, but here
>> is an idea that came from writing my last message on scholarships.
>>
>> A comprehensive Student Slate article dealing with this and other
>> student issues beyond blindness would be welcome.
>>
>> Perhaps a Student Slate, student finances edition to cover student
>> loans, financial aid, fraud, saving, salary negotiation, earning
>> expectations? There's a table of contents. NABS just needs to find the
>> financial bright minds of the organization to write the stories. I'm not
>> one of them. Prefer the arts myself.
>>
>> Yes, I did just sidestep writing a piece, but would love to read such an
>> issue.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Antonio Guimaraes
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
> net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorge.paez1994%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>


-- 
Darian Smith

"To dream what is possible and to put oneself in service of that dream is the
formula
for a life well lived."

- Dr. Peter Benson


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 17:58:00 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 13:58:00 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
In-Reply-To: <82E921D8E50D4A58A18FA5E04B62379C@Gloria>
References: <82E921D8E50D4A58A18FA5E04B62379C@Gloria>
Message-ID: <7EEAEB23C0BC44EE8188ED2A7D92091D@OwnerPC>

It depends on your needs. If you want to  print on one side of the page, you 
have more options, if you want both sides, interpoint, your choices are 
smaller. I have a very old embosser that I do not think is made anymore, it’s 
a braille blazer. I've heard the juliets are good for home use.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Gloria G
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 7:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers

Hi all,
I use a lot of electronic materials but would like to be able to print out 
notes for myself in a way that is easier and more portable for me. I use a 
slate and stylus sometimes, but as we all know that can take a lot of time. 
What type of braille embosser would you guys recommend? Or is there another 
rout I should take?
Thanks
_______________________________________________
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 17:58:56 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 13:58:56 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers
In-Reply-To: <B67D5752A4D54FEDA9D08AA911B9883B@Gloria>
References: <82E921D8E50D4A58A18FA5E04B62379C@Gloria><CAO83KOv5qpTNV==cnPC2OtDm0aA1oEzPkDLFD+YVKojskXVv8g@mail.gmail.com>
	<B67D5752A4D54FEDA9D08AA911B9883B@Gloria>
Message-ID: <8CCB3366BB484130A9B5A7EBA08CC0AD@OwnerPC>

I agree. I love hard copy braille because you can skim a page easier. I 
think an embosser is a wise investment.


-----Original Message----- 
From: Gloria G
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 7:13 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers

I have a braille note, but there is only so much you can do with a braille
note
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 6:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Embosers


> Get an IPad, and a focus 40 Braille display, and you'll be good to go.
> That, or a Pac Mate, or Braille Note.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 4/30/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I use a lot of electronic materials but would like to be able to print 
>> out
>> notes for myself in a way that is easier and more portable for me. I use 
>> a
>> slate and stylus sometimes, but as we all know that can take a lot of 
>> time.
>> What type of braille embosser would you guys recommend? Or is there 
>> another
>> rout I should take?
>> Thanks
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com


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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 17:50:13 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 13:50:13 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOujpDmDej1jqs6jYmQCh88zttBGQGtzi4FB9A3qA9ooyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL57mpFmePWq_psp52GM-vtFyhHsAGjaHO1hbBS1Um+WKXY4Fg@mail.gmail.com><008501cd1cd4$364b9560$a2e2c020$@mchsi.com><7B1E894D8D294C52A5DF89EA9610306A@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOujpDmDej1jqs6jYmQCh88zttBGQGtzi4FB9A3qA9ooyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A82EA20DE16F4D248EEFCCA950F8CCEF@OwnerPC>

thanks. cheaper than I thought, but still expensive

-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:17 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer

The Focus 40 Blue, is $2695.00.
Too expensive for me!
I'd bet, that the 20 cell is half that!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I've always dreamed of a braille display, all expensive. How much is the
> focus and does it come in different cell lengths? Like can you get one 
> with
>
> 20 celss vs 40?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loren
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 3:56 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
>
> I think I would go with the focus.  It is less expensive than the
> brailliant.
>
> Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Amanda Cape
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 7:52 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
>
> Hi fellow listers,
> I am looking into getting a braille display that could work with my iphone
> and computer. Which one do you recommend? The brailliant or the focs 40
> blue? What model of the brailliant if you recommend that one?
> Amanda
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>

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From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Mon May 14 17:56:24 2012
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 10:56:24 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] *for High School Students Only* Nabs High School
 Committee: School Dances: Getting ready, Getting confident,
 Getting on the Floor!
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjOsLSB4RCRmRi-6MMQWu+pGivmaxVfoWYkRGBxHOL2JAw@mail.gmail.com>

To all High School Students

Do you find it difficult to enjoy and socialize at school dances
because of all of the noise?

Do you want to learn how you can participate fully in the school dance
experience, from getting ready to socializing?

Join the high school committee as we discuss ways that we can enjoy
dances and similar events as much as our sighted peers.

When: Sunday, May 20, 2012 at 6:00 p.m. eastern

Call: 712-775-7100

Pass code: 257963


From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com  Mon May 14 18:18:28 2012
From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 11:18:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
Message-ID: <1337019508.25751.YahooMailClassic@web162004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Josh,
As a person who will be a VR Counselor within the next year or two, I do not really appreciate people saying that VR Counselors do not care about their consumers. I have had a whole new appreciation for the field of Rehabilitation Counseling and for VR Counselors since I have enrolled in the MS in Rehabilitation Counseling program at the University of Arkansas.
I agree that what Ashley's counselor is doing is not good. Networking and getting internship experience is important since thats how you get a job, and as a counselor I will encourage that. However, to say we do not care and the only thing we are interested in is to close a case is frankly not true for most counselors.
The government spends alot of money on rehabilitation, but the unemployment number is still not going down. So tax payers want answers and our elected officials who have to answer to tax payers put pressure on directors of the rehabilitation agencies to show results and the directors put pressure on people under them and it goes all the way down to the bottom person who is the VR Counselor. The counselors are told to close so many cases with a 6 which means that the case has been successful and the Consumer is employed or else lose their job. However, policy makers do not consider factors that have hender the ability of a blind person to get a job such as a poor economy, the historical high number of blind people who are unemployed, and so on. All they care about is how many blind people are employed so that they can justify spending the money they are spending on rehabilitation.
The process of finding a job is a two way process and it takes both the VR Counselor and the Consumer to work together. The Counselor needs the Consumer to find employment so that they can successfully close their case and keep their job, but whats more important is that the consumer needs to do everything they can to find themself a job so that they can get off SSDI and live a happy and successful life.
To be quite frank, and it will afend some people on this list, but many blind people are not doing their part to find themself a job. To many blind people expect the VR Counselor to do everything. To be quite honest, it has got to a point to where people consider rehab to be a right instead of a privledge. In many countries they do not have rehab and blind people are still managing to live and some have pretty successful careers. There is know law that says that you have to take rehabilitation so if you do not like your counselor or do not like the process of rehabilitation, then simply request for your case to be closed. The blind person is totally capable to find their own job, and they should do as much for themself as they can. As a future VR Counselor I will do whatever I can to help my Consumers, this why I entered this field but I can not help consumers who do not want to help themselves. So before making clames that VR Counselors do not care
 about their consumers, think about the job we have to do and ask yourself if you are doing everything to help yourself.

Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
Hellen Keller


--- On Sun, 5/13/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:

> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Sunday, May 13, 2012, 4:59 PM
> That's my problem with most of the VR
> counselors, that I've dealt with!
> They don't really care about us!
> They just want to close our cases, because we're just an
> unwanted
> burden, to them!
> I'm supporting you, and am hoping for the best.
> BTW, we complain all the time about VR, but what are we
> doing to
> improve the system?
> How can we improve it?
> Well, after I get my degree, there's a job opening up, in my
> state, to
> work for VR!
> If more of us, (clients,) started trying to get jobs,
> working for VR,
> we could be the very ones, to improve the systems, and make
> them
> better support our people!
> As a VR counselor, I'd make sure that my clients were able
> to get the
> jobs, that they want, if possible!
> Blessings, Joshua
> 
> On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> > Hi Josh,
> > No, this is an employee of the agency; its  a job
> placement specialist, not
> >
> > a center.
> > My question is what do these people do? From the one
> blind client I spoke
> > with, he said the specialist didn't do much of anything
> but told him to look
> >
> > online for job ads.
> > I'll revise my sentence  from my first email.
> >
> > After  I just told her I looked and few entry
> level jobs there and to put
> > down an internship where my foot will be in the door in
> the government  that
> >
> > may lead somewhere is insulting.
> > Not clear here what insulted me.
> >
> > After I just told her I looked and found few entry
> level jobs I qualified
> > for, I told her I  had an internship coming where
> I could get my foot in the
> >
> > door in the government and this internship may lead to
> more permanent work,
> >
> > her comment about finding a real job insulted me.
> >
> > I'll add its like all she cares about getting clients
> jobs, not good
> > careers, to heck with what they want to do, just get
> them jobs and close
> > their cases.
> > Not a good attitude.  Also, many college grads are
> doing just what I am--
> > getting internships to hopefully lead to full time
> work. There was an
> > article in the New york times about this. 
> Inexperienced young people cannot
> >
> > find work.  What world do vr counselors live in?
> > Well not the real world where people are struggling and
> worried about lay
> > off and people are losing homes or working three part
> time jobs to pay for
> > the essentials of life.
> > I'm trying to say its tough for anyone, and being
> > blind makes it a little harder. A vr counselor should
> support you by giving
> >
> > you the skills to look for work and help you network,
> not throwing you to
> > some so called specialist who probably just finds any
> job and if you take it
> >
> > they can close your case. No, I'll be bold and stand up
> to them and go for
> > the job that fits my skills.
> >
> > Ashley
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joshua Lester
> > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:22 PM
> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
> >
> > LWSB was a job placement center.
> > You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS programs.
> > If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to send
> you to LWSB, or
> > a center like it!
> > Blessings, Joshua
> >
> > On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject line for
> this complex issue.
> >>
> >> I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a general
> BA degree in liberal
> >> studies; kind of where you make your won program to
> complete a degree; I
> >> picked  my concentrations of social sciences
> and communication. Then
> >> after
> >> some training at our state center, I pursued a
> writing certificate at
> >> Nova,
> >> northern Virginia community college.  I’m
> finishing that next semester.
> >> I
> >> wanted to add more to my resume and take classes
> specific to writing, so
> >> this was a good investment for me.  My career
> goal is broad; in this
> >> economy
> >> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind or
> not.
> >> I desire to work in something to help people. I’m
> thinking outreach,
> >> communication, customer service, or
> development.  I want to work with a
> >> team
> >> of people in an office.
> >>
> >> That is some background.  Now as we all know
> getting a job is tough with
> >> the
> >> down economy and most jobs are gotten via
> networking anyway.
> >> I networked via a disability mentoring day for
> customs and border patrol;
> >>
> >> I
> >> was refered for a unpaid internship in section 508
> compliance after
> >> following up with the disability program manager. I
> intend to get this
> >> internship once going through their rigorrous
> background check.
> >>
> >> Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor. 
> I tell her I’m looking for
> >> work
> >> and explain barriers like lack of experience;
> visual tasks in entry level
> >> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data entry
> etc, etc.
> >> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over my
> case and I wonder if she
> >> is
> >> forcing a service on me for which it will do no
> good.
> >>
> >> I then tell her about my internship to end the
> call. “well, you are good
> >> at
> >> finding internships, but lets look for a real
> job.” How insulting! After
> >> I
> >> just told her I looked and few entry level jobs
> there and to put down an
> >> internship where my foot will be in the door in the
> government  that may
> >> lead somewhere is insulting.
> >>
> >> Have anyone of you worked with or  known
> people who worked with job
> >> placement specialists?  This counselor wants
> to refer me
> >> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless he
> actually takes me out to
> >> go
> >> in person to employers, its called cold calls. I
> asked her what he’d do
> >> for
> >> me and she was real vague.
> >> “He’ll send you job leads.” she said. 
> She said something about job
> >> announcements.
> >>
> >> I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I just am
> not sure I should work
> >> with
> >> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a waste
> of time.  I’d rather
> >> have
> >> vr work with me on things like a good cover letter,
> interview skills,
> >> professional dos and don’ts, stuff like that. So,
> I’m wondering if any of
> >> you had this service and how it went.
> >>
> >> Ashley
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
> your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com
>



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 18:19:51 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 14:19:51 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
In-Reply-To: <CAC0sDO7UudpgsMZe93bN2=c3ynW5y0D6NnkM+X=QjTUObfQQpw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4f7381c3.e215440a.5e4e.ffffe4b0@mx.google.com><E2070599-9B38-4043-9343-68DBF697E468@gmail.com><9FD14F60E8114BDB805F99FD6C40730A@Espy><FA632E34-4566-4266-BAC8-A53CD8B99093@gmail.com><CA+N-3k2sF=3hNMoOZ_CO-waJJSTg-wKD1yKL6zkdgcO1Sv=XMg@mail.gmail.com><CAMJOM=0Vazw21mLFUaPwTBG93PCAfgqnbNtY3=ut1dASeVC93Q@mail.gmail.com><CA+N-3k3MvmpokLJxRiWB6_3x3ZSw5j5NYMhrgKfz7Fg0ZJWZZQ@mail.gmail.com><CAO83KOse_VpOcBUnLMZQS2QNtTJUnMBvBUMb0ayHEgqXLERzfw@mail.gmail.com><75D256D44B2D4BD398EEC55B1B7DB9DB@OwnerPC><2631E97681F24BA58FA9625116074E6A@userPC>
	<CAC0sDO7UudpgsMZe93bN2=c3ynW5y0D6NnkM+X=QjTUObfQQpw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D305F848C3944DBAAC7163085E15DCBB@OwnerPC>

thanks. which was the site that was more accessible?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Laurel
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:44 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question

Yes, you can add friends, write on people's walls, comment on things
and post things fairly easily. If you ever need help, please feel free
to write me off list at laurel.stockard at gmail.com and I'd be happy to
help you out. What screen reading technology do you use?
Laurel and Stockard

On 5/14/12, Rania Ismail CMT <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes Ashley you can.
> Usem.facebook.com It's easyer with screene readers.
> Rania,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 12:31 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
>
> Hi,
> I am thinking of joining facebook. I thought adding friends and requesting
> them was accessible. Is that right?
> Can you write on other's walls?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 6:11 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
>
> I experimented with Facebook, last year.
> I didn't like it, because I had problems, adding people, and sending
> messages.
> Also, when I was in high school, I experimented with Myspace, and,
> (IMO,) Myspace was more accessible than Facebook.
> I've deleted both accounts, (BTW.)
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
>> i don't know really how to do it, just that it does not work on the
>> moble site. now for the phones, but not for computers using
>> m.facebook.com
>>
>> On 3/28/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hmmm... any way to do this on iPhone?
>>>
>>> On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> it only works on the main facebook site.
>>>>
>>>> with love
>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>
>>>> On 3/28/12, Stephanie DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I think so..on my android phone, if I am typing a comment and then
>>>>> press
>>>>> the
>>>>> menu/settings button on the phone, and there is an option for
>>>>> "people".
>>>>> It
>>>>> pulls up your friends list, and I select from that.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you do it on the mobile site, or can it only be done with the
>>>>>> regular
>>>>>> facebook site?
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca"
>>>>>> <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:36 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or something,
>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>> write @ (the "at" symbol) and type their name.  A list of your
>>>>>>> Facebook
>>>>>>> friends should pop up, from which you can select who you want to
>>>>>>> tag.
>>>>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> give me
>>>>>>>> the name and tell me how to do it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who also
>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> page
>>>>>>>> appears as well?  Is this called Tagging, or does that only happen
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> photos?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some
>>>>>>>> activity,
>>>>>>>> they can mention others and have a link to their page.  If anyone
>>>>>>>> knows,
>>>>>>>> let
>>>>>>>> me know as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site
>>>>>>>> only?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> 73
>>>> kd8qiq
>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent via gmail.com
>>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>> Skype: joshgregory93
>>>  twitter: JoshG93
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 73
>> kd8qiq
>> jeff crouch
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p
> ccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
> net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From laurel.stockard at gmail.com  Mon May 14 18:22:51 2012
From: laurel.stockard at gmail.com (Laurel)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 13:22:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
In-Reply-To: <D305F848C3944DBAAC7163085E15DCBB@OwnerPC>
References: <4f7381c3.e215440a.5e4e.ffffe4b0@mx.google.com>
	<E2070599-9B38-4043-9343-68DBF697E468@gmail.com>
	<9FD14F60E8114BDB805F99FD6C40730A@Espy>
	<FA632E34-4566-4266-BAC8-A53CD8B99093@gmail.com>
	<CA+N-3k2sF=3hNMoOZ_CO-waJJSTg-wKD1yKL6zkdgcO1Sv=XMg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAMJOM=0Vazw21mLFUaPwTBG93PCAfgqnbNtY3=ut1dASeVC93Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+N-3k3MvmpokLJxRiWB6_3x3ZSw5j5NYMhrgKfz7Fg0ZJWZZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOse_VpOcBUnLMZQS2QNtTJUnMBvBUMb0ayHEgqXLERzfw@mail.gmail.com>
	<75D256D44B2D4BD398EEC55B1B7DB9DB@OwnerPC>
	<2631E97681F24BA58FA9625116074E6A@userPC>
	<CAC0sDO7UudpgsMZe93bN2=c3ynW5y0D6NnkM+X=QjTUObfQQpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D305F848C3944DBAAC7163085E15DCBB@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAC0sDO7T6p1Qhmcp7E1v7Vg_9iDca6prGjm_b6X3GgMC3c9vVQ@mail.gmail.com>

Facebook.com is fine. Are you using JAWS on a computer, a pac mate or
note taker, or voice over with an iPad or iPhone, or something else.
I'm asking so I can better help you out, because different screen
readers act differently with facebook. Don't get me wrong, it's fine
as far as accessibility goes, but as far as me giving you pointers and
all, it helps if I know what you use. /grins/
Laurel and Stockard

On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> thanks. which was the site that was more accessible?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Laurel
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:44 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
>
> Yes, you can add friends, write on people's walls, comment on things
> and post things fairly easily. If you ever need help, please feel free
> to write me off list at laurel.stockard at gmail.com and I'd be happy to
> help you out. What screen reading technology do you use?
> Laurel and Stockard
>
> On 5/14/12, Rania Ismail CMT <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yes Ashley you can.
>> Usem.facebook.com It's easyer with screene readers.
>> Rania,
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Ashley Bramlett
>> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 12:31 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
>>
>> Hi,
>> I am thinking of joining facebook. I thought adding friends and
>> requesting
>> them was accessible. Is that right?
>> Can you write on other's walls?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 6:11 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
>>
>> I experimented with Facebook, last year.
>> I didn't like it, because I had problems, adding people, and sending
>> messages.
>> Also, when I was in high school, I experimented with Myspace, and,
>> (IMO,) Myspace was more accessible than Facebook.
>> I've deleted both accounts, (BTW.)
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> i don't know really how to do it, just that it does not work on the
>>> moble site. now for the phones, but not for computers using
>>> m.facebook.com
>>>
>>> On 3/28/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hmmm... any way to do this on iPhone?
>>>>
>>>> On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> it only works on the main facebook site.
>>>>>
>>>>> with love
>>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/28/12, Stephanie DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I think so..on my android phone, if I am typing a comment and then
>>>>>> press
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> menu/settings button on the phone, and there is an option for
>>>>>> "people".
>>>>>> It
>>>>>> pulls up your friends list, and I select from that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you do it on the mobile site, or can it only be done with the
>>>>>>> regular
>>>>>>> facebook site?
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca"
>>>>>>> <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:36 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or something,
>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>> write @ (the "at" symbol) and type their name.  A list of your
>>>>>>>> Facebook
>>>>>>>> friends should pop up, from which you can select who you want to
>>>>>>>> tag.
>>>>>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if someone
>>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>>> give me
>>>>>>>>> the name and tell me how to do it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who also
>>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>> facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where the link to
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> page
>>>>>>>>> appears as well?  Is this called Tagging, or does that only happen
>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>> photos?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post some
>>>>>>>>> activity,
>>>>>>>>> they can mention others and have a link to their page.  If anyone
>>>>>>>>> knows,
>>>>>>>>> let
>>>>>>>>> me know as well.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site
>>>>>>>>> only?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> 73
>>>>> kd8qiq
>>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sent via gmail.com
>>>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>>> Skype: joshgregory93
>>>>  twitter: JoshG93
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 73
>>> kd8qiq
>>> jeff crouch
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p
>> ccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 18:40:21 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 14:40:21 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
In-Reply-To: <1337019508.25751.YahooMailClassic@web162004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1337019508.25751.YahooMailClassic@web162004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <95E33AF706CF40A48946C377F7DB49BD@OwnerPC>

Anmol,
Sorry but I really feel that some vr counselors don't care much. If they 
don't call or write back timely, if they will not update your equipment 
putting you at a even greater disadvantage, it seems to me they don't care.

I did network and worked on my own to attain all internships including the 
pending one. I even had to install my personal copy of jaws at national 
crime prevention council, since being non government they could not procure 
jaws for me.

When people, whether blind or sighted, cannot find work, they often get more 
internships to get more experience. Many college grads do this in this 
economy.  And to have that effort put down was real insulting to me.  And 
what in blazes does my counselor think is a "real job". Okay, as far as I'm 
concerned a "real job" is one which you go to work, contribute, and get paid 
for it.  A real job to me has potential for advancement. I'm concerned that 
when they just say jobs, it could be anything just to close your case.

I'll add then you cannot go anywhere in a job and say get laid off or lose 
the job then, and then know what you do? You open a vr case again! If you 
found a good quality job in the first place that seemed secure and where you 
exercised transferable skills, uyou will not need to reopen your case.

Yeah, I try and find internships and jobs. Not enough blind people do it, 
that is for sure.
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Anmol Bhatia
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 2:18 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support

Josh,
As a person who will be a VR Counselor within the next year or two, I do not 
really appreciate people saying that VR Counselors do not care about their 
consumers. I have had a whole new appreciation for the field of 
Rehabilitation Counseling and for VR Counselors since I have enrolled in the 
MS in Rehabilitation Counseling program at the University of Arkansas.
I agree that what Ashley's counselor is doing is not good. Networking and 
getting internship experience is important since thats how you get a job, 
and as a counselor I will encourage that. However, to say we do not care and 
the only thing we are interested in is to close a case is frankly not true 
for most counselors.
The government spends alot of money on rehabilitation, but the unemployment 
number is still not going down. So tax payers want answers and our elected 
officials who have to answer to tax payers put pressure on directors of the 
rehabilitation agencies to show results and the directors put pressure on 
people under them and it goes all the way down to the bottom person who is 
the VR Counselor. The counselors are told to close so many cases with a 6 
which means that the case has been successful and the Consumer is employed 
or else lose their job. However, policy makers do not consider factors that 
have hender the ability of a blind person to get a job such as a poor 
economy, the historical high number of blind people who are unemployed, and 
so on. All they care about is how many blind people are employed so that 
they can justify spending the money they are spending on rehabilitation.
The process of finding a job is a two way process and it takes both the VR 
Counselor and the Consumer to work together. The Counselor needs the 
Consumer to find employment so that they can successfully close their case 
and keep their job, but whats more important is that the consumer needs to 
do everything they can to find themself a job so that they can get off SSDI 
and live a happy and successful life.
To be quite frank, and it will afend some people on this list, but many 
blind people are not doing their part to find themself a job. To many blind 
people expect the VR Counselor to do everything. To be quite honest, it has 
got to a point to where people consider rehab to be a right instead of a 
privledge. In many countries they do not have rehab and blind people are 
still managing to live and some have pretty successful careers. There is 
know law that says that you have to take rehabilitation so if you do not 
like your counselor or do not like the process of rehabilitation, then 
simply request for your case to be closed. The blind person is totally 
capable to find their own job, and they should do as much for themself as 
they can. As a future VR Counselor I will do whatever I can to help my 
Consumers, this why I entered this field but I can not help consumers who do 
not want to help themselves. So before making clames that VR Counselors do 
not care
about their consumers, think about the job we have to do and ask yourself if 
you are doing everything to help yourself.

Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps 
there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze 
among flowers.
Hellen Keller


--- On Sun, 5/13/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:

> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Sunday, May 13, 2012, 4:59 PM
> That's my problem with most of the VR
> counselors, that I've dealt with!
> They don't really care about us!
> They just want to close our cases, because we're just an
> unwanted
> burden, to them!
> I'm supporting you, and am hoping for the best.
> BTW, we complain all the time about VR, but what are we
> doing to
> improve the system?
> How can we improve it?
> Well, after I get my degree, there's a job opening up, in my
> state, to
> work for VR!
> If more of us, (clients,) started trying to get jobs,
> working for VR,
> we could be the very ones, to improve the systems, and make
> them
> better support our people!
> As a VR counselor, I'd make sure that my clients were able
> to get the
> jobs, that they want, if possible!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> > Hi Josh,
> > No, this is an employee of the agency; its  a job
> placement specialist, not
> >
> > a center.
> > My question is what do these people do? From the one
> blind client I spoke
> > with, he said the specialist didn't do much of anything
> but told him to look
> >
> > online for job ads.
> > I'll revise my sentence  from my first email.
> >
> > After  I just told her I looked and few entry
> level jobs there and to put
> > down an internship where my foot will be in the door in
> the government  that
> >
> > may lead somewhere is insulting.
> > Not clear here what insulted me.
> >
> > After I just told her I looked and found few entry
> level jobs I qualified
> > for, I told her I  had an internship coming where
> I could get my foot in the
> >
> > door in the government and this internship may lead to
> more permanent work,
> >
> > her comment about finding a real job insulted me.
> >
> > I'll add its like all she cares about getting clients
> jobs, not good
> > careers, to heck with what they want to do, just get
> them jobs and close
> > their cases.
> > Not a good attitude.  Also, many college grads are
> doing just what I am--
> > getting internships to hopefully lead to full time
> work. There was an
> > article in the New york times about this.
> Inexperienced young people cannot
> >
> > find work.  What world do vr counselors live in?
> > Well not the real world where people are struggling and
> worried about lay
> > off and people are losing homes or working three part
> time jobs to pay for
> > the essentials of life.
> > I'm trying to say its tough for anyone, and being
> > blind makes it a little harder. A vr counselor should
> support you by giving
> >
> > you the skills to look for work and help you network,
> not throwing you to
> > some so called specialist who probably just finds any
> job and if you take it
> >
> > they can close your case. No, I'll be bold and stand up
> to them and go for
> > the job that fits my skills.
> >
> > Ashley
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joshua Lester
> > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:22 PM
> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
> >
> > LWSB was a job placement center.
> > You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS programs.
> > If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to send
> you to LWSB, or
> > a center like it!
> > Blessings, Joshua
> >
> > On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject line for
> this complex issue.
> >>
> >> I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a general
> BA degree in liberal
> >> studies; kind of where you make your won program to
> complete a degree; I
> >> picked  my concentrations of social sciences
> and communication. Then
> >> after
> >> some training at our state center, I pursued a
> writing certificate at
> >> Nova,
> >> northern Virginia community college.  I’m
> finishing that next semester.
> >> I
> >> wanted to add more to my resume and take classes
> specific to writing, so
> >> this was a good investment for me.  My career
> goal is broad; in this
> >> economy
> >> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind or
> not.
> >> I desire to work in something to help people. I’m
> thinking outreach,
> >> communication, customer service, or
> development.  I want to work with a
> >> team
> >> of people in an office.
> >>
> >> That is some background.  Now as we all know
> getting a job is tough with
> >> the
> >> down economy and most jobs are gotten via
> networking anyway.
> >> I networked via a disability mentoring day for
> customs and border patrol;
> >>
> >> I
> >> was refered for a unpaid internship in section 508
> compliance after
> >> following up with the disability program manager. I
> intend to get this
> >> internship once going through their rigorrous
> background check.
> >>
> >> Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor.
> I tell her I’m looking for
> >> work
> >> and explain barriers like lack of experience;
> visual tasks in entry level
> >> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data entry
> etc, etc.
> >> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over my
> case and I wonder if she
> >> is
> >> forcing a service on me for which it will do no
> good.
> >>
> >> I then tell her about my internship to end the
> call. “well, you are good
> >> at
> >> finding internships, but lets look for a real
> job.” How insulting! After
> >> I
> >> just told her I looked and few entry level jobs
> there and to put down an
> >> internship where my foot will be in the door in the
> government  that may
> >> lead somewhere is insulting.
> >>
> >> Have anyone of you worked with or  known
> people who worked with job
> >> placement specialists?  This counselor wants
> to refer me
> >> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless he
> actually takes me out to
> >> go
> >> in person to employers, its called cold calls. I
> asked her what he’d do
> >> for
> >> me and she was real vague.
> >> “He’ll send you job leads.” she said.
> She said something about job
> >> announcements.
> >>
> >> I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I just am
> not sure I should work
> >> with
> >> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a waste
> of time.  I’d rather
> >> have
> >> vr work with me on things like a good cover letter,
> interview skills,
> >> professional dos and don’ts, stuff like that. So,
> I’m wondering if any of
> >> you had this service and how it went.
> >>
> >> Ashley
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
> your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
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>


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From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com  Mon May 14 18:58:48 2012
From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 11:58:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
In-Reply-To: <95E33AF706CF40A48946C377F7DB49BD@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <1337021928.52863.YahooMailClassic@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Ashley,
I agree that getting an internship or frankly even a enter level job is important. It is a step that will help you land a full time job, and give you an opportunity to network. So your VR Counselor had know right to tell you to "go get a real job". As a future VR Counselor, I would encourage you to continue doing what you are doing, but remember that VR Counselor are under alot of pressure to close so many cases regardless of the type of employment they received. Many times in order to meet their number of cases closed so that the Rehab Agency can show to law makers that they have successfully closed cases, VR Counselors have to close the case regardless of the type of job the consumer has received. Many times they have to close cases even when the consumer has only found a fast food job, nothing related to their Vocational Goals just so they can show their boss and on up to the law makers that the agency has closed so many cases in order to receive
 funding for the next year.

Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
Hellen Keller


--- On Mon, 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> From: Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Monday, May 14, 2012, 1:40 PM
> Anmol,
> Sorry but I really feel that some vr counselors don't care
> much. If they don't call or write back timely, if they will
> not update your equipment putting you at a even greater
> disadvantage, it seems to me they don't care.
> 
> I did network and worked on my own to attain all internships
> including the pending one. I even had to install my personal
> copy of jaws at national crime prevention council, since
> being non government they could not procure jaws for me.
> 
> When people, whether blind or sighted, cannot find work,
> they often get more internships to get more experience. Many
> college grads do this in this economy.  And to have
> that effort put down was real insulting to me.  And
> what in blazes does my counselor think is a "real job".
> Okay, as far as I'm concerned a "real job" is one which you
> go to work, contribute, and get paid for it.  A real
> job to me has potential for advancement. I'm concerned that
> when they just say jobs, it could be anything just to close
> your case.
> 
> I'll add then you cannot go anywhere in a job and say get
> laid off or lose the job then, and then know what you do?
> You open a vr case again! If you found a good quality job in
> the first place that seemed secure and where you exercised
> transferable skills, uyou will not need to reopen your
> case.
> 
> Yeah, I try and find internships and jobs. Not enough blind
> people do it, that is for sure.
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 2:18 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
> 
> Josh,
> As a person who will be a VR Counselor within the next year
> or two, I do not really appreciate people saying that VR
> Counselors do not care about their consumers. I have had a
> whole new appreciation for the field of Rehabilitation
> Counseling and for VR Counselors since I have enrolled in
> the MS in Rehabilitation Counseling program at the
> University of Arkansas.
> I agree that what Ashley's counselor is doing is not good.
> Networking and getting internship experience is important
> since thats how you get a job, and as a counselor I will
> encourage that. However, to say we do not care and the only
> thing we are interested in is to close a case is frankly not
> true for most counselors.
> The government spends alot of money on rehabilitation, but
> the unemployment number is still not going down. So tax
> payers want answers and our elected officials who have to
> answer to tax payers put pressure on directors of the
> rehabilitation agencies to show results and the directors
> put pressure on people under them and it goes all the way
> down to the bottom person who is the VR Counselor. The
> counselors are told to close so many cases with a 6 which
> means that the case has been successful and the Consumer is
> employed or else lose their job. However, policy makers do
> not consider factors that have hender the ability of a blind
> person to get a job such as a poor economy, the historical
> high number of blind people who are unemployed, and so on.
> All they care about is how many blind people are employed so
> that they can justify spending the money they are spending
> on rehabilitation.
> The process of finding a job is a two way process and it
> takes both the VR Counselor and the Consumer to work
> together. The Counselor needs the Consumer to find
> employment so that they can successfully close their case
> and keep their job, but whats more important is that the
> consumer needs to do everything they can to find themself a
> job so that they can get off SSDI and live a happy and
> successful life.
> To be quite frank, and it will afend some people on this
> list, but many blind people are not doing their part to find
> themself a job. To many blind people expect the VR Counselor
> to do everything. To be quite honest, it has got to a point
> to where people consider rehab to be a right instead of a
> privledge. In many countries they do not have rehab and
> blind people are still managing to live and some have pretty
> successful careers. There is know law that says that you
> have to take rehabilitation so if you do not like your
> counselor or do not like the process of rehabilitation, then
> simply request for your case to be closed. The blind person
> is totally capable to find their own job, and they should do
> as much for themself as they can. As a future VR Counselor I
> will do whatever I can to help my Consumers, this why I
> entered this field but I can not help consumers who do not
> want to help themselves. So before making clames that VR
> Counselors do not care
> about their consumers, think about the job we have to do and
> ask yourself if you are doing everything to help yourself.
> 
> Anmol
> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me
> sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but
> it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
> Hellen Keller
> 
> 
> --- On Sun, 5/13/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
> 
> > From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > Date: Sunday, May 13, 2012, 4:59 PM
> > That's my problem with most of the VR
> > counselors, that I've dealt with!
> > They don't really care about us!
> > They just want to close our cases, because we're just
> an
> > unwanted
> > burden, to them!
> > I'm supporting you, and am hoping for the best.
> > BTW, we complain all the time about VR, but what are
> we
> > doing to
> > improve the system?
> > How can we improve it?
> > Well, after I get my degree, there's a job opening up,
> in my
> > state, to
> > work for VR!
> > If more of us, (clients,) started trying to get jobs,
> > working for VR,
> > we could be the very ones, to improve the systems, and
> make
> > them
> > better support our people!
> > As a VR counselor, I'd make sure that my clients were
> able
> > to get the
> > jobs, that they want, if possible!
> > Blessings, Joshua
> > 
> > On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> > wrote:
> > > Hi Josh,
> > > No, this is an employee of the agency; its  a
> job
> > placement specialist, not
> > >
> > > a center.
> > > My question is what do these people do? From the
> one
> > blind client I spoke
> > > with, he said the specialist didn't do much of
> anything
> > but told him to look
> > >
> > > online for job ads.
> > > I'll revise my sentence  from my first
> email.
> > >
> > > After  I just told her I looked and few
> entry
> > level jobs there and to put
> > > down an internship where my foot will be in the
> door in
> > the government  that
> > >
> > > may lead somewhere is insulting.
> > > Not clear here what insulted me.
> > >
> > > After I just told her I looked and found few
> entry
> > level jobs I qualified
> > > for, I told her I  had an internship coming
> where
> > I could get my foot in the
> > >
> > > door in the government and this internship may
> lead to
> > more permanent work,
> > >
> > > her comment about finding a real job insulted me.
> > >
> > > I'll add its like all she cares about getting
> clients
> > jobs, not good
> > > careers, to heck with what they want to do, just
> get
> > them jobs and close
> > > their cases.
> > > Not a good attitude.  Also, many college
> grads are
> > doing just what I am--
> > > getting internships to hopefully lead to full
> time
> > work. There was an
> > > article in the New york times about this.
> > Inexperienced young people cannot
> > >
> > > find work.  What world do vr counselors live
> in?
> > > Well not the real world where people are
> struggling and
> > worried about lay
> > > off and people are losing homes or working three
> part
> > time jobs to pay for
> > > the essentials of life.
> > > I'm trying to say its tough for anyone, and being
> > > blind makes it a little harder. A vr counselor
> should
> > support you by giving
> > >
> > > you the skills to look for work and help you
> network,
> > not throwing you to
> > > some so called specialist who probably just finds
> any
> > job and if you take it
> > >
> > > they can close your case. No, I'll be bold and
> stand up
> > to them and go for
> > > the job that fits my skills.
> > >
> > > Ashley
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Joshua Lester
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:22 PM
> > > To: National Association of Blind Students
> mailing
> > list
> > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job
> support
> > >
> > > LWSB was a job placement center.
> > > You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS
> programs.
> > > If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to
> send
> > you to LWSB, or
> > > a center like it!
> > > Blessings, Joshua
> > >
> > > On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> > wrote:
> > >> Hi all,
> > >>
> > >> Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject
> line for
> > this complex issue.
> > >>
> > >> I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a
> general
> > BA degree in liberal
> > >> studies; kind of where you make your won
> program to
> > complete a degree; I
> > >> picked  my concentrations of social
> sciences
> > and communication. Then
> > >> after
> > >> some training at our state center, I pursued
> a
> > writing certificate at
> > >> Nova,
> > >> northern Virginia community college. 
> I’m
> > finishing that next semester.
> > >> I
> > >> wanted to add more to my resume and take
> classes
> > specific to writing, so
> > >> this was a good investment for me.  My
> career
> > goal is broad; in this
> > >> economy
> > >> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind
> or
> > not.
> > >> I desire to work in something to help people.
> I’m
> > thinking outreach,
> > >> communication, customer service, or
> > development.  I want to work with a
> > >> team
> > >> of people in an office.
> > >>
> > >> That is some background.  Now as we all
> know
> > getting a job is tough with
> > >> the
> > >> down economy and most jobs are gotten via
> > networking anyway.
> > >> I networked via a disability mentoring day
> for
> > customs and border patrol;
> > >>
> > >> I
> > >> was refered for a unpaid internship in section
> 508
> > compliance after
> > >> following up with the disability program
> manager. I
> > intend to get this
> > >> internship once going through their rigorrous
> > background check.
> > >>
> > >> Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor.
> > I tell her I’m looking for
> > >> work
> > >> and explain barriers like lack of experience;
> > visual tasks in entry level
> > >> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data
> entry
> > etc, etc.
> > >> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over
> my
> > case and I wonder if she
> > >> is
> > >> forcing a service on me for which it will do
> no
> > good.
> > >>
> > >> I then tell her about my internship to end
> the
> > call. “well, you are good
> > >> at
> > >> finding internships, but lets look for a real
> > job.” How insulting! After
> > >> I
> > >> just told her I looked and few entry level
> jobs
> > there and to put down an
> > >> internship where my foot will be in the door
> in the
> > government  that may
> > >> lead somewhere is insulting.
> > >>
> > >> Have anyone of you worked with or  known
> > people who worked with job
> > >> placement specialists?  This counselor
> wants
> > to refer me
> > >> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless
> he
> > actually takes me out to
> > >> go
> > >> in person to employers, its called cold calls.
> I
> > asked her what he’d do
> > >> for
> > >> me and she was real vague.
> > >> “He’ll send you job leads.” she said.
> > She said something about job
> > >> announcements.
> > >>
> > >> I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I
> just am
> > not sure I should work
> > >> with
> > >> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a
> waste
> > of time.  I’d rather
> > >> have
> > >> vr work with me on things like a good cover
> letter,
> > interview skills,
> > >> professional dos and don’ts, stuff like
> that. So,
> > I’m wondering if any of
> > >> you had this service and how it went.
> > >>
> > >> Ashley
> > >>
> _______________________________________________
> > >> nabs-l mailing list
> > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or
> get
> > your account info for
> > >> nabs-l:
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
> your
> > account info for
> > > nabs-l:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
> your
> > account info for
> > > nabs-l:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
> > >
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account
> > info for nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40yahoo.com
> 


From dandrews at visi.com  Mon May 14 19:53:00 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 14:53:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
In-Reply-To: <000501cd31ca$280407c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
References: <19E927DAA3B144D9AE038B72199A8EBD@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOs6c0e9Qpt3S64DGS+Fin7UxsuD0+cdGm2cpL4OPmfO3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<EEB210E11A6A4F2A980C62AF26EF12BF@OwnerPC>
	<000301cd318a$4a03bfe0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
	<CAO83KOuBtc8fZ6+662nSA7ONcfe_THvByi0PaPL-QRh3oXNJnQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<000501cd31ca$280407c0$1400ba43@BRIAN>
Message-ID: <4FB1629C.1080506@visi.com>

Rehab is like any other field.  Some people working in it are good, some 
people are terrible, and most are probably in the middle.  There are 
certainly some Rehab Counselors, that should get out of the field, for 
the benefit of their customers (smile.)  On the other hand, it seems to 
be acceptable on many blindness lists to make blanket condemnations of 
all Rehab Counselors.  I don't think this is justified, and will help us 
improve the field any.

David Andrews



On 5/14/2012 7:07 AM, Brian Gelatinous wrote:
> Agreed Josh and that's ashaim why do people go into that field if they 
> don't like helping others then?  If I pursue that degree I would help 
> all my clients as long as they were motivated!
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Lester" 
> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 5:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>
>
> Yeah, but some of them deserve to lose their jobs!
> Just saying!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/13/12, Brian Hatgelakas <brian.hatgelakas at verizon.net> wrote:
>> These VR Counselors will never experience a "job loss" because their
>> government jobs have it great!  with benifits good pay and government
>> holidays off!
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:50 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>>
>>
>> Hi Josh,
>> No, this is an employee of the agency; its  a job placement 
>> specialist, not
>> a center.
>> My question is what do these people do? From the one blind client I 
>> spoke
>> with, he said the specialist didn't do much of anything but told him to
>> look
>> online for job ads.
>> I'll revise my sentence  from my first email.
>>
>> After  I just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to 
>> put
>> down an internship where my foot will be in the door in the government
>> that
>> may lead somewhere is insulting.
>> Not clear here what insulted me.
>>
>> After I just told her I looked and found few entry level jobs I 
>> qualified
>> for, I told her I  had an internship coming where I could get my foot in
>> the
>> door in the government and this internship may lead to more permanent 
>> work,
>> her comment about finding a real job insulted me.
>>
>> I'll add its like all she cares about getting clients jobs, not good
>> careers, to heck with what they want to do, just get them jobs and close
>> their cases.
>> Not a good attitude.  Also, many college grads are doing just what I 
>> am--
>> getting internships to hopefully lead to full time work. There was an
>> article in the New york times about this.  Inexperienced young people
>> cannot
>> find work.  What world do vr counselors live in?
>> Well not the real world where people are struggling and worried about 
>> lay
>> off and people are losing homes or working three part time jobs to 
>> pay for
>> the essentials of life.
>> I'm trying to say its tough for anyone, and being
>> blind makes it a little harder. A vr counselor should support you by 
>> giving
>> you the skills to look for work and help you network, not throwing 
>> you to
>> some so called specialist who probably just finds any job and if you 
>> take
>> it
>> they can close your case. No, I'll be bold and stand up to them and 
>> go for
>> the job that fits my skills.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:22 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>>
>> LWSB was a job placement center.
>> You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS programs.
>> If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to send you to LWSB, or
>> a center like it!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject line for this complex issue.
>>>
>>> I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a general BA degree in liberal
>>> studies; kind of where you make your won program to complete a 
>>> degree; I
>>> picked  my concentrations of social sciences and communication. Then
>>> after
>>> some training at our state center, I pursued a writing certificate at
>>> Nova,
>>> northern Virginia community college.  I’m finishing that next semester.
>>> I
>>> wanted to add more to my resume and take classes specific to 
>>> writing, so
>>> this was a good investment for me.  My career goal is broad; in this
>>> economy
>>> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind or not.
>>> I desire to work in something to help people. I’m thinking outreach,
>>> communication, customer service, or development.  I want to work with a
>>> team
>>> of people in an office.
>>>
>>> That is some background.  Now as we all know getting a job is tough 
>>> with
>>> the
>>> down economy and most jobs are gotten via networking anyway.
>>> I networked via a disability mentoring day for customs and border 
>>> patrol;
>>>
>>> I
>>> was refered for a unpaid internship in section 508 compliance after
>>> following up with the disability program manager. I intend to get this
>>> internship once going through their rigorrous background check.
>>>
>>> Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor.  I tell her I’m looking for
>>> work
>>> and explain barriers like lack of experience; visual tasks in entry 
>>> level
>>> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data entry etc, etc.
>>> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over my case and I wonder if 
>>> she
>>> is
>>> forcing a service on me for which it will do no good.
>>>
>>> I then tell her about my internship to end the call. “well, you are 
>>> good
>>> at
>>> finding internships, but lets look for a real job.” How insulting! 
>>> After
>>> I
>>> just told her I looked and few entry level jobs there and to put 
>>> down an
>>> internship where my foot will be in the door in the government  that 
>>> may
>>> lead somewhere is insulting.
>>>
>>> Have anyone of you worked with or  known people who worked with job
>>> placement specialists?  This counselor wants to refer me
>>> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless he actually takes me 
>>> out to
>>> go
>>> in person to employers, its called cold calls. I asked her what he’d do
>>> for
>>> me and she was real vague.
>>> “He’ll send you job leads.” she said.  She said something about job
>>> announcements.
>>>
>>> I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I just am not sure I should work
>>> with
>>> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a waste of time.  I’d rather
>>> have
>>> vr work with me on things like a good cover letter, interview skills,
>>> professional dos and don’ts, stuff like that. So, I’m wondering if 
>>> any of
>>> you had this service and how it went.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>> _____________________________________



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon May 14 20:01:13 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 16:01:13 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] National Federation of the
	BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child
Message-ID: <4fb16492.106a650a.6f3e.ffff8bc3@mx.google.com>

An eloquent statement indeed!!

Chris Nusbaum

""For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Sat, 12 May 2012 17:34:24 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the 
BlindApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind 
Child

I had a good friend, who worked tirelessly with me, in making 
sure I
had my needs met, (EG,) Braille texts, Perkins Braillers, 
(whenever
mine needed maintenance,) etc.
He made this statement, at an IEP meeting, when they were trying 
to
force audio only education, on me.
"Without Braille, he will fail!"
That's an eloquent statement!
Without Braille, we're ultimately going to fail!
Thanks to Mr Ken Jewel, for that pearl of wisdom!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/12/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
 Sophie,

 I agree.  I took Marc's statement to mean that totally blind
 people could in fact read and write, just with audio technology
 (e.g.  text-to-speech software.) As I said in my previous email,
 my point was that we couldn't read or write independently (when 
I
 say "read," I mean reading
 written text, as sighted people read print,) without Braille.  
If
 a low-vision person has enough vision to read large print, of
 course, they could read the written word independently in that
 format.  But sometimes, even for low-vision people, reading 
large
 print becomes a tedious and difficult process, making it
 necessary for them to learn Braille in order for the process of
 reading and writing to be more efficient.

 By the way, I'm a guy! :)

 Chris Nusbaum

 "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
 2 Corinthians 5:7

 Sent from my BrailleNote

  ----- Original Message -----
 From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
 list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
  sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 15:06:25 -0500
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind
 ApplaudsNewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 Marc,

 I believe that when Chris said, "Without braille, we couldn't
 read or write,", she was speaking of the totally blind.  From
 your
 e-mail, I gather that you still have a good bit of my vision
 left.  I am completely blind, so there is no possible way that I
 could learn print.  Okay, I can learn to sign my name, but 
that's
 about it.  So for those of us who are totally blind or whose
 vision is not reliable enough for them to read print (sorry, but
 I think you're a minority on this list), without braille, we
 could not read or write.

  ----- Original Message -----
 From: Marc Workman <mworkman.lists at gmail.com
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Date sent: Thu, 10 May 2012 08:40:45 -0700
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] National Federation of the Blind Applauds
 NewJerseyRuling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

 I guess I'm in a small minority of those who had Braille forced
 on them as a child.  I resisted it with every argument an eight
 year old can muster.  At several times throughout my primary and
 secondary education, I was made to learn and relearn Braille 
even
 though I didn't use it then and have rarely used it since.

 Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying I was right to
 resist.  There are lots of things that children resist learning
 for one reason or another (e.g.,second and third languages,
 musical instruments, dance), and all of these skills contribute
 to the production of a more well-rounded and talented person.
 Braille falls into this category for me.  Knowing it better 
would
 likely help me get a job, but so too would being more fluent in
 french, particularly in Canada.

 Where I do take issue, and I've expressed this before, is with
 statements like this one from Chris:

  "Without Braille, we can't read or write."

 And I'm not picking on you, Chris, I could have found others
 making the same point in this thread.  If Chris's statement is
 true, then this email and every essay I wrote in my undergrad,
 masters, and PhD programs were written by someone who is
 illiterate.  Without being too immodest, I think I write better
 than a majority of sighted people, and that's not bad for an
 illiterate person.

 Any child that wants to learn Braille or any parents that want
 that for their children should receive the instruction they
 desire.  Adults too should receive the support to learn Braille
 if
 they so desire.  What I think is worth pointing out is that
 Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be able to read and
 write, Braille isn't necessary for blind people to be 
successful,
 and in some cases, mine in particular, the dozens of hours spent
 learning Braille may more effectively be spent learning other
 skills.

 Cheers,

 Marc
 On 2012-05-08, at 5:41 PM, Chris Nusbaum wrote:

  A big amen to that! I couldn't have said it any better! I was
 actually
  having a similar conversation with my school librarian today,
 who asked me
  whether I saw Braille withering away with the advancement of
 audio
  technology.  I told her I didn't, and even if I could see that
 happening, I
  wouldn't want it.  Why do I not see Braille going away? Because
 there are
  enough blind people who are passionate about Braille to prevent
 that from
  happening! Why would I want Braille to continue as the primary
 source of
  reading and writing for the blind? Because reading books in
 audio format,
  although it is a good method for reading materials sometimes,
 isn't true
  literacy.  Braille is our form of literacy.  Without Braille, 
we
 can't read or
  write.  This means that we can't get a job, or go to college, 
or
 keep up with
  our sighted peers.  So, I think we definitely still need 
Braille
 because it
  is our form of literacy, and if we get rid of Braille, we 
should
 get rid of
  print too!

  Chris

  -----Original Message-----
  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
 [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
  Of Arielle Silverman
  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 10:42 PM
  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
 Applauds
  NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

  It's sad that this required three years of legal contention to
 resolve.
  What's even sadder is that for thousands of other children,
 these battles
  aren't being won in the end or even being fought in the first
 place.  Parents
  capitulate to the professionals' insistence that their child
 doesn't need
  Braille, or they want to fight but don't have the time, energy
 or legal
  resources to stick it out.
  The saddest thing of all, and an irony too, is that so much of
 the denial of
  Braille instruction is being perpetrated by the very people
 entrusted to
  promote and teach Braille--teachers of the blind! I just read a
 few weeks
  ago about a preschool child whose TVI refused to provide her
 with Braille
  copies of the storybooks her classmates were given in school.
 Instead, the
  teacher thought it sufficient to give the child stuffed toys
 representing
  the characters in the stories.  I can understand using toys to
 substitute for
  the pictures, but if the sighted kids are getting copies of the
 stories, why
  not give the exact same content to the blind child as well? I
 might add that
  in today's electronic world, and even before computers existed,
 transcribing
  a book for preschoolers is not difficult.  And even in this 
case
 with the
  Millers, the NJ Commission for the Blind backed the school's
 decision not to
  provide Braille.  If even the folks who are charged to teach us
 literacy
  don't stand behind Braille, who will? In my opinion a certified
 teacher of
  blind children who refuses to teach Braille, or who refuses to
 hold their
  students to competitive reading standards, is not deserving of
 that
  certificate.
  I sincerely hope that this victory will set a meaningful
 precedent to bring
  about big changes for those parents who are fighting for 
Braille
 today and
  in the future.
  Arielle

  On 5/7/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> 
wrote:
  How old is the child?
  I got Braille instruction, when I was just starting school!
  Why is it, that they did this, with this child?
  Any word on how old he is?
  Thanks, Joshua

  On 5/7/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
  I agree, how  sad.

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Loren
  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:09 PM
  To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' ;
  blindtlk at nfbnet.org ; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind
 Applauds
  NewJersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child

  It's extremely sad that this took 3 years to come to this
 decision.
  Would
  anyone deny a sighted child print instruction for that long?
  Congrats to the Millers for sticking with it.  You did a great
 thing for
  your child.

  Loren Wakefield



  -----Original Message-----
  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
 [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
  Behalf Of Chris Nusbaum
  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 5:54 PM
  To: blindtlk at nfbnet.org; 'National Association of Blind 
Students
  mailing list'; nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
  Subject: [nabs-l] FW: National Federation of the Blind Applauds
 New
  Jersey Ruling on Braille Instruction for Blind Child





  From: Freeh, Jessica [mailto:JFreeh at nfb.org]
  Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 8:57 AM
  To: Undisclosed recipients:
  Subject: National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey
 Ruling on
  Braille Instruction for Blind Child



  FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



  CONTACT:

  Chris Danielsen

  Director of Public Relations

  National Federation of the Blind

  (410) 659-9314, extension 2330

  (410) 262-1281 (Cell)

  <mailto:cdanielsen at nfb.org> cdanielsen at nfb.org




  National Federation of the Blind Applauds New Jersey Ruling on
 Braille
  Instruction for Blind Child


  After Three-Year Battle, Hank Miller Will Receive Braille
 Instruction




  Oceanport, New Jersey (May 7, 2012): After a three-year
 administrative
  and
  legal battle against their local school board, the Oceanport
 Board of
  Education, Jeffrey and Holly Miller obtained a ruling (docket
 number:
  2011
  17218) from an administrative law judge that their
 eleven-year-old son
  Henry
  "Hank" Miller was improperly denied instruction in Braille, the
 reading
  and
  writing code for the blind.  The legal victory, obtained with
 the
  assistance
  of the National Federation of the Blind <http://www.nfb.org/
 (NFB),
  comes
  on the heels of


 
<http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/speced/Letter%20to%20Secretary%20
 Duncan%20re
  %20Braille%20Literacy.pdf> a letter from 26 U.S.  Senators
 urging
 the
  Department of Education to take steps to ensure that blind
 children who
  need
  Braille instruction receive it.



  Holly and Jeffrey Miller brought the legal case on behalf of
 their son,
  Hank, whom they adopted from China and who is blind due to
 albinism and
  nystagmus.  Hank has limited vision that allows him to read
 enlarged
  print
  for short periods of time, but he is unable to read for
 sustained periods
  of
  time.  Although Hank's parents continued to tell school
 officials that
  their
  son was experiencing visual fatigue and was having difficulty
 reading,
  the
  school board and its consultant, the New Jersey Commission for
 the Blind
  and
  Visually Impaired (CBVI), insisted that Hank was a proficient
 print
  reader,
  notwithstanding his continued placement in a special resource
 room for
  language arts.  In a nearly ten-day hearing, held under the due
 process
  provisions of the Individuals with Disabilities Education
 Improvement Act
  of
  2004, Mrs.  Miller testified that she watched Hank routinely
 struggle with
  his homework, suffering from eye strain and fatigue, but was
 unable to
  convince school officials or the CBVI that Hank needed Braille
  instruction.
  She also testified that Hank's schoolwork was not of the same
 quantity
  and
  quality as that of his classmates.  Although experts from the
 school and
  the
  commission claimed that Hank was a "visual learner" and should
  participate
  in the "sighted world," experts hired by the Millers and the 
NFB
  concluded
  after thorough assessment that Hank could not read print for
 extended
  periods of time without eye strain, neck and back pain, 
fatigue,
 and loss
  of
  reading speed and comprehension.



  In her order, Administrative Law Judge Lisa James-Beavers found
 that the
  school board and the commission displayed a clear "bias against
 Braille."
  She found that the school board and the commission had failed 
to
 assess
  Hank's "sustained reading ability" with print, relying instead
 on reading
  assessments involving only brief passages, and citing Hank's
 alleged
  failure
  to complain about struggling to read print.  The judge was
 unconvinced by
  the board and CBVI's contention that Hank could rely on audio
 technology
  as
  reading demands increased through his school years, noting that
 "as
  pointed
  out by all of petitioners' well-qualified experts, listening
 does not
  equate
  to reading.  One does not enhance the active skill of
 comprehending text
  by
  passively listening, even if one is following along with the
 reading."
  The
  order noted that "the CBVI failed to do what Oceanport relied 
on
 them to
  do,
  which is to help construct a program that would give H.M.
 meaningful
  educational benefit considering H.M.'s future needs."  Judge
  James-Beavers
  ordered that Hank Miller be provided with Braille instruction
 for
  forty-five
  minutes, five days a week, and that the school board provide
 compensatory
  instruction because of the three years that Hank was not
 provided with
  Braille instruction, in the form of intensive Braille summer
 programs or
  tutoring.



  Dr.  Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the
 Blind, said:
  "Based on the experience of countless parents of blind children
 and blind
  adults who had never learned Braille and have contacted us over
 the
  years,
  the National Federation of the Blind has consistently argued
 that blind
  children are being improperly assessed and denied Braille
 instruction
  when
  it is clearly appropriate.  Now after a thorough and
 comprehensive
  examination of the evidence in Hank Miller's case, an
 independent judge
  has
  confirmed what we always knew.  We hope that school and agency
 officials
  across the nation take note of this landmark ruling and commit
 to giving
  blind children access to Braille, the true key to literacy for
 the vast
  majority of children who are blind or losing vision.  The
 National
  Federation of the Blind will continue to stand with families
 like the
  Millers who find themselves pitted against the educational
 establishment
  in
  obtaining the equal education to which their children are
 entitled and
  which
  they deserve."



  Holly Miller, Hank's mother, said: "I am obviously thrilled 
with
 this
  ruling, although I am still saddened that it took such a
 prolonged battle
  to
  achieve it.  I am stepping forward to tell Hank's story in 
hopes
 that
  other
  parents of blind children will not have to struggle as we did.
 I thank
  the
  National Federation of the Blind and all of the individuals and
 experts
  who
  came forward to assist in this case.  I plan to strongly and
 publicly
  advocate with the National Federation of the Blind for Braille
  instruction
  for blind children."



  The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Sharon
 Krevor-Weisbaum
  of
  the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, and Levy, and Jayne M.
 Wesler of the
  Cranbury firm Sussan and Greenwald.



  For more information about the National Federation of the 
Blind,
 please
  visit www.nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org/> .  For more information
 about
  Braille, the reading and writing code for the blind, please
 visit
  www.braille.org <http://www.braille.org/> .







  ###





  About the National Federation of the Blind



  With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the
 Blind is
  the
  largest and most influential membership organization of blind
 people in
  the
  United States.  The NFB improves blind people's lives through
 advocacy,
  education, research, technology, and programs encouraging
 independence
  and
  self-confidence.  It is the leading force in the blindness 
field
 today and
  the voice of the nation's blind.  In January 2004 the NFB 
opened
 the
  National
  Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research
 and
  training
  center in the United States for the blind led by the blind.



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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 20:09:39 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 16:09:39 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
In-Reply-To: <1337021928.52863.YahooMailClassic@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <1337021928.52863.YahooMailClassic@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <B5E709F7A09E4AEA992B111D2DABDC8A@OwnerPC>

Anmol
Good points. they need closures for funding. Even though as I said if it’s a 
dead end job lets say a customer service job at home depo or a fast food 
joint, the case will have to be reopened.  Ideally, counselors should work 
with you to get a job commensurate with your skills, interests and 
abilities. But as you said, sadly this is not often the case. Yeah, fast 
food jobs and then case closure, doesn't sound related to a vr goal to me.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Anmol Bhatia
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 2:58 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support

Ashley,
I agree that getting an internship or frankly even a enter level job is 
important. It is a step that will help you land a full time job, and give 
you an opportunity to network. So your VR Counselor had know right to tell 
you to "go get a real job". As a future VR Counselor, I would encourage you 
to continue doing what you are doing, but remember that VR Counselor are 
under alot of pressure to close so many cases regardless of the type of 
employment they received. Many times in order to meet their number of cases 
closed so that the Rehab Agency can show to law makers that they have 
successfully closed cases, VR Counselors have to close the case regardless 
of the type of job the consumer has received. Many times they have to close 
cases even when the consumer has only found a fast food job, nothing related 
to their Vocational Goals just so they can show their boss and on up to the 
law makers that the agency has closed so many cases in order to receive
funding for the next year.

Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps 
there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze 
among flowers.
Hellen Keller


--- On Mon, 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> From: Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Monday, May 14, 2012, 1:40 PM
> Anmol,
> Sorry but I really feel that some vr counselors don't care
> much. If they don't call or write back timely, if they will
> not update your equipment putting you at a even greater
> disadvantage, it seems to me they don't care.
>
> I did network and worked on my own to attain all internships
> including the pending one. I even had to install my personal
> copy of jaws at national crime prevention council, since
> being non government they could not procure jaws for me.
>
> When people, whether blind or sighted, cannot find work,
> they often get more internships to get more experience. Many
> college grads do this in this economy.  And to have
> that effort put down was real insulting to me.  And
> what in blazes does my counselor think is a "real job".
> Okay, as far as I'm concerned a "real job" is one which you
> go to work, contribute, and get paid for it.  A real
> job to me has potential for advancement. I'm concerned that
> when they just say jobs, it could be anything just to close
> your case.
>
> I'll add then you cannot go anywhere in a job and say get
> laid off or lose the job then, and then know what you do?
> You open a vr case again! If you found a good quality job in
> the first place that seemed secure and where you exercised
> transferable skills, uyou will not need to reopen your
> case.
>
> Yeah, I try and find internships and jobs. Not enough blind
> people do it, that is for sure.
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 2:18 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>
> Josh,
> As a person who will be a VR Counselor within the next year
> or two, I do not really appreciate people saying that VR
> Counselors do not care about their consumers. I have had a
> whole new appreciation for the field of Rehabilitation
> Counseling and for VR Counselors since I have enrolled in
> the MS in Rehabilitation Counseling program at the
> University of Arkansas.
> I agree that what Ashley's counselor is doing is not good.
> Networking and getting internship experience is important
> since thats how you get a job, and as a counselor I will
> encourage that. However, to say we do not care and the only
> thing we are interested in is to close a case is frankly not
> true for most counselors.
> The government spends alot of money on rehabilitation, but
> the unemployment number is still not going down. So tax
> payers want answers and our elected officials who have to
> answer to tax payers put pressure on directors of the
> rehabilitation agencies to show results and the directors
> put pressure on people under them and it goes all the way
> down to the bottom person who is the VR Counselor. The
> counselors are told to close so many cases with a 6 which
> means that the case has been successful and the Consumer is
> employed or else lose their job. However, policy makers do
> not consider factors that have hender the ability of a blind
> person to get a job such as a poor economy, the historical
> high number of blind people who are unemployed, and so on.
> All they care about is how many blind people are employed so
> that they can justify spending the money they are spending
> on rehabilitation.
> The process of finding a job is a two way process and it
> takes both the VR Counselor and the Consumer to work
> together. The Counselor needs the Consumer to find
> employment so that they can successfully close their case
> and keep their job, but whats more important is that the
> consumer needs to do everything they can to find themself a
> job so that they can get off SSDI and live a happy and
> successful life.
> To be quite frank, and it will afend some people on this
> list, but many blind people are not doing their part to find
> themself a job. To many blind people expect the VR Counselor
> to do everything. To be quite honest, it has got to a point
> to where people consider rehab to be a right instead of a
> privledge. In many countries they do not have rehab and
> blind people are still managing to live and some have pretty
> successful careers. There is know law that says that you
> have to take rehabilitation so if you do not like your
> counselor or do not like the process of rehabilitation, then
> simply request for your case to be closed. The blind person
> is totally capable to find their own job, and they should do
> as much for themself as they can. As a future VR Counselor I
> will do whatever I can to help my Consumers, this why I
> entered this field but I can not help consumers who do not
> want to help themselves. So before making clames that VR
> Counselors do not care
> about their consumers, think about the job we have to do and
> ask yourself if you are doing everything to help yourself.
>
> Anmol
> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me
> sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but
> it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
> Hellen Keller
>
>
> --- On Sun, 5/13/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > Date: Sunday, May 13, 2012, 4:59 PM
> > That's my problem with most of the VR
> > counselors, that I've dealt with!
> > They don't really care about us!
> > They just want to close our cases, because we're just
> an
> > unwanted
> > burden, to them!
> > I'm supporting you, and am hoping for the best.
> > BTW, we complain all the time about VR, but what are
> we
> > doing to
> > improve the system?
> > How can we improve it?
> > Well, after I get my degree, there's a job opening up,
> in my
> > state, to
> > work for VR!
> > If more of us, (clients,) started trying to get jobs,
> > working for VR,
> > we could be the very ones, to improve the systems, and
> make
> > them
> > better support our people!
> > As a VR counselor, I'd make sure that my clients were
> able
> > to get the
> > jobs, that they want, if possible!
> > Blessings, Joshua
> >
> > On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> > wrote:
> > > Hi Josh,
> > > No, this is an employee of the agency; its  a
> job
> > placement specialist, not
> > >
> > > a center.
> > > My question is what do these people do? From the
> one
> > blind client I spoke
> > > with, he said the specialist didn't do much of
> anything
> > but told him to look
> > >
> > > online for job ads.
> > > I'll revise my sentence  from my first
> email.
> > >
> > > After  I just told her I looked and few
> entry
> > level jobs there and to put
> > > down an internship where my foot will be in the
> door in
> > the government  that
> > >
> > > may lead somewhere is insulting.
> > > Not clear here what insulted me.
> > >
> > > After I just told her I looked and found few
> entry
> > level jobs I qualified
> > > for, I told her I  had an internship coming
> where
> > I could get my foot in the
> > >
> > > door in the government and this internship may
> lead to
> > more permanent work,
> > >
> > > her comment about finding a real job insulted me.
> > >
> > > I'll add its like all she cares about getting
> clients
> > jobs, not good
> > > careers, to heck with what they want to do, just
> get
> > them jobs and close
> > > their cases.
> > > Not a good attitude.  Also, many college
> grads are
> > doing just what I am--
> > > getting internships to hopefully lead to full
> time
> > work. There was an
> > > article in the New york times about this.
> > Inexperienced young people cannot
> > >
> > > find work.  What world do vr counselors live
> in?
> > > Well not the real world where people are
> struggling and
> > worried about lay
> > > off and people are losing homes or working three
> part
> > time jobs to pay for
> > > the essentials of life.
> > > I'm trying to say its tough for anyone, and being
> > > blind makes it a little harder. A vr counselor
> should
> > support you by giving
> > >
> > > you the skills to look for work and help you
> network,
> > not throwing you to
> > > some so called specialist who probably just finds
> any
> > job and if you take it
> > >
> > > they can close your case. No, I'll be bold and
> stand up
> > to them and go for
> > > the job that fits my skills.
> > >
> > > Ashley
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Joshua Lester
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:22 PM
> > > To: National Association of Blind Students
> mailing
> > list
> > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job
> support
> > >
> > > LWSB was a job placement center.
> > > You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS
> programs.
> > > If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to
> send
> > you to LWSB, or
> > > a center like it!
> > > Blessings, Joshua
> > >
> > > On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> > wrote:
> > >> Hi all,
> > >>
> > >> Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject
> line for
> > this complex issue.
> > >>
> > >> I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a
> general
> > BA degree in liberal
> > >> studies; kind of where you make your won
> program to
> > complete a degree; I
> > >> picked  my concentrations of social
> sciences
> > and communication. Then
> > >> after
> > >> some training at our state center, I pursued
> a
> > writing certificate at
> > >> Nova,
> > >> northern Virginia community college.
> I’m
> > finishing that next semester.
> > >> I
> > >> wanted to add more to my resume and take
> classes
> > specific to writing, so
> > >> this was a good investment for me.  My
> career
> > goal is broad; in this
> > >> economy
> > >> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind
> or
> > not.
> > >> I desire to work in something to help people.
> I’m
> > thinking outreach,
> > >> communication, customer service, or
> > development.  I want to work with a
> > >> team
> > >> of people in an office.
> > >>
> > >> That is some background.  Now as we all
> know
> > getting a job is tough with
> > >> the
> > >> down economy and most jobs are gotten via
> > networking anyway.
> > >> I networked via a disability mentoring day
> for
> > customs and border patrol;
> > >>
> > >> I
> > >> was refered for a unpaid internship in section
> 508
> > compliance after
> > >> following up with the disability program
> manager. I
> > intend to get this
> > >> internship once going through their rigorrous
> > background check.
> > >>
> > >> Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor.
> > I tell her I’m looking for
> > >> work
> > >> and explain barriers like lack of experience;
> > visual tasks in entry level
> > >> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data
> entry
> > etc, etc.
> > >> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over
> my
> > case and I wonder if she
> > >> is
> > >> forcing a service on me for which it will do
> no
> > good.
> > >>
> > >> I then tell her about my internship to end
> the
> > call. “well, you are good
> > >> at
> > >> finding internships, but lets look for a real
> > job.” How insulting! After
> > >> I
> > >> just told her I looked and few entry level
> jobs
> > there and to put down an
> > >> internship where my foot will be in the door
> in the
> > government  that may
> > >> lead somewhere is insulting.
> > >>
> > >> Have anyone of you worked with or  known
> > people who worked with job
> > >> placement specialists?  This counselor
> wants
> > to refer me
> > >> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless
> he
> > actually takes me out to
> > >> go
> > >> in person to employers, its called cold calls.
> I
> > asked her what he’d do
> > >> for
> > >> me and she was real vague.
> > >> “He’ll send you job leads.” she said.
> > She said something about job
> > >> announcements.
> > >>
> > >> I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I
> just am
> > not sure I should work
> > >> with
> > >> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a
> waste
> > of time.  I’d rather
> > >> have
> > >> vr work with me on things like a good cover
> letter,
> > interview skills,
> > >> professional dos and don’ts, stuff like
> that. So,
> > I’m wondering if any of
> > >> you had this service and how it went.
> > >>
> > >> Ashley
> > >>
> _______________________________________________
> > >> nabs-l mailing list
> > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or
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> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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From dandrews at visi.com  Mon May 14 20:38:30 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 15:38:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
In-Reply-To: <7B1E894D8D294C52A5DF89EA9610306A@OwnerPC>
References: <CAL57mpFmePWq_psp52GM-vtFyhHsAGjaHO1hbBS1Um+WKXY4Fg@mail.gmail.com>
	<008501cd1cd4$364b9560$a2e2c020$@mchsi.com>
	<7B1E894D8D294C52A5DF89EA9610306A@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <4FB16D46.2080405@visi.com>

An interesting, less expensive alternative, which has recently become 
available is a new Seikka display from Perkins products -- can't 
remember the name.  It is only 16 cells I think, but is $1549.  Some 
people might want a small, compact display with their iPhones.

Dave



On 5/14/2012 12:04 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
> I've always dreamed of a braille display, all expensive. How much is 
> the focus and does it come in different cell lengths? Like can you get 
> one with 20 celss vs 40?
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Loren
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 3:56 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
>
> I think I would go with the focus.  It is less expensive than the
> brailliant.
>
> Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Amanda Cape
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 7:52 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
>
> Hi fellow listers,
> I am looking into getting a braille display that could work with my 
> iphone
> and computer. Which one do you recommend? The brailliant or the focs 40
> blue? What model of the brailliant if you recommend that one?
> Amanda 



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Mon May 14 20:53:53 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 14:53:53 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
In-Reply-To: <B5E709F7A09E4AEA992B111D2DABDC8A@OwnerPC>
References: <1337021928.52863.YahooMailClassic@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<B5E709F7A09E4AEA992B111D2DABDC8A@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJA3aLfC5dYXAFFqay5v=7qaNixozUOp9Rh_A6f_6qu+5A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
Anmol, I appreciate your perspective on this. As a student and future
employee of the system you know quite a bit more about it than many of
us. I agree that none of us are required to enter the voc rehab system
or to obey any of the suggestions of our VR counselors. Like DSS
offices, VR is just one more tool in the toolbox or one more basket to
put our eggs in, as it were. To maximize the chances of landing a job
we need to be willing to put our eggs into as many different baskets
as we can.
I did not have a VR case at all until my senior year of college, and
even then when I opened one I was clear that my only reason for doing
so was to get funding for training in Louisiana. I did not discuss or
debate my career plans with my counselor or submit any kind of reports
to them about what I was doing in school. I did not permit him to
advise me about what field to go into or what kind of job training to
get. I simply drafted and signed an employment plan with my counselor
and argued that training at LCB was an important part of the plan. It
took a little fighting but they fulfilled their duty and sent me
there. After that I moved to Boulder, CO and once I established
Colorado residency and lost Arizona residency, I allowed the Arizona
VR to close my case and didn't open a new case in Colorado.
Technically I am a part-time employee of my university and a part-time
student, so I'm not sure if I would be counted as a successful closure
or not by their standards. I certainly haven't attained my career goal
yet of being a university professor, since I'm still a grad student,
and I probably could open a new case in Colorado, but I simply feel
like it would be more of a hassle than a help in my particular
situation. I'm not saying that all of you should close your cases, but
I'm just saying you can, and should, pick and choose which services
you take advantage of and what you can get from other means with less
hassle. If you want to pursue an opportunity like an internship or a
different college major, go for it no matter what your VR counselor
says or thinks about it. Even if they threaten to take away an
essential service like tuition assistance or technology, it might be
worth at least finding out if you can find a way to get that essential
service without having to change your plans to satisfy their wishes or
rules. It is your life, in the end.
I do think most VR counselors care about their clients. However, as
Anmol has described, the pressure from above to close as many cases as
possible influences their decisions. Further, there are lots of
middlemen the VR counselor must work with to complete the process of
ordering technology or authorizing services, and if even one of those
guys is incompetent for whatever reason, the deed doesn't get done. In
my opinion, the system must be streamlined, and counselors should be
incentivized to place clients in higher-status or better-paying jobs,
not just jobs period.
Arielle

On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Anmol
> Good points. they need closures for funding. Even though as I said if it’s a
> dead end job lets say a customer service job at home depo or a fast food
> joint, the case will have to be reopened.  Ideally, counselors should work
> with you to get a job commensurate with your skills, interests and
> abilities. But as you said, sadly this is not often the case. Yeah, fast
> food jobs and then case closure, doesn't sound related to a vr goal to me.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anmol Bhatia
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 2:58 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>
> Ashley,
> I agree that getting an internship or frankly even a enter level job is
> important. It is a step that will help you land a full time job, and give
> you an opportunity to network. So your VR Counselor had know right to tell
> you to "go get a real job". As a future VR Counselor, I would encourage you
> to continue doing what you are doing, but remember that VR Counselor are
> under alot of pressure to close so many cases regardless of the type of
> employment they received. Many times in order to meet their number of cases
> closed so that the Rehab Agency can show to law makers that they have
> successfully closed cases, VR Counselors have to close the case regardless
> of the type of job the consumer has received. Many times they have to close
> cases even when the consumer has only found a fast food job, nothing related
> to their Vocational Goals just so they can show their boss and on up to the
> law makers that the agency has closed so many cases in order to receive
> funding for the next year.
>
> Anmol
> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps
> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze
> among flowers.
> Hellen Keller
>
>
> --- On Mon, 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> From: Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Monday, May 14, 2012, 1:40 PM
>> Anmol,
>> Sorry but I really feel that some vr counselors don't care
>> much. If they don't call or write back timely, if they will
>> not update your equipment putting you at a even greater
>> disadvantage, it seems to me they don't care.
>>
>> I did network and worked on my own to attain all internships
>> including the pending one. I even had to install my personal
>> copy of jaws at national crime prevention council, since
>> being non government they could not procure jaws for me.
>>
>> When people, whether blind or sighted, cannot find work,
>> they often get more internships to get more experience. Many
>> college grads do this in this economy.  And to have
>> that effort put down was real insulting to me.  And
>> what in blazes does my counselor think is a "real job".
>> Okay, as far as I'm concerned a "real job" is one which you
>> go to work, contribute, and get paid for it.  A real
>> job to me has potential for advancement. I'm concerned that
>> when they just say jobs, it could be anything just to close
>> your case.
>>
>> I'll add then you cannot go anywhere in a job and say get
>> laid off or lose the job then, and then know what you do?
>> You open a vr case again! If you found a good quality job in
>> the first place that seemed secure and where you exercised
>> transferable skills, uyou will not need to reopen your
>> case.
>>
>> Yeah, I try and find internships and jobs. Not enough blind
>> people do it, that is for sure.
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia
>> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 2:18 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>>
>> Josh,
>> As a person who will be a VR Counselor within the next year
>> or two, I do not really appreciate people saying that VR
>> Counselors do not care about their consumers. I have had a
>> whole new appreciation for the field of Rehabilitation
>> Counseling and for VR Counselors since I have enrolled in
>> the MS in Rehabilitation Counseling program at the
>> University of Arkansas.
>> I agree that what Ashley's counselor is doing is not good.
>> Networking and getting internship experience is important
>> since thats how you get a job, and as a counselor I will
>> encourage that. However, to say we do not care and the only
>> thing we are interested in is to close a case is frankly not
>> true for most counselors.
>> The government spends alot of money on rehabilitation, but
>> the unemployment number is still not going down. So tax
>> payers want answers and our elected officials who have to
>> answer to tax payers put pressure on directors of the
>> rehabilitation agencies to show results and the directors
>> put pressure on people under them and it goes all the way
>> down to the bottom person who is the VR Counselor. The
>> counselors are told to close so many cases with a 6 which
>> means that the case has been successful and the Consumer is
>> employed or else lose their job. However, policy makers do
>> not consider factors that have hender the ability of a blind
>> person to get a job such as a poor economy, the historical
>> high number of blind people who are unemployed, and so on.
>> All they care about is how many blind people are employed so
>> that they can justify spending the money they are spending
>> on rehabilitation.
>> The process of finding a job is a two way process and it
>> takes both the VR Counselor and the Consumer to work
>> together. The Counselor needs the Consumer to find
>> employment so that they can successfully close their case
>> and keep their job, but whats more important is that the
>> consumer needs to do everything they can to find themself a
>> job so that they can get off SSDI and live a happy and
>> successful life.
>> To be quite frank, and it will afend some people on this
>> list, but many blind people are not doing their part to find
>> themself a job. To many blind people expect the VR Counselor
>> to do everything. To be quite honest, it has got to a point
>> to where people consider rehab to be a right instead of a
>> privledge. In many countries they do not have rehab and
>> blind people are still managing to live and some have pretty
>> successful careers. There is know law that says that you
>> have to take rehabilitation so if you do not like your
>> counselor or do not like the process of rehabilitation, then
>> simply request for your case to be closed. The blind person
>> is totally capable to find their own job, and they should do
>> as much for themself as they can. As a future VR Counselor I
>> will do whatever I can to help my Consumers, this why I
>> entered this field but I can not help consumers who do not
>> want to help themselves. So before making clames that VR
>> Counselors do not care
>> about their consumers, think about the job we have to do and
>> ask yourself if you are doing everything to help yourself.
>>
>> Anmol
>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me
>> sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but
>> it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
>> Hellen Keller
>>
>>
>> --- On Sun, 5/13/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> > Date: Sunday, May 13, 2012, 4:59 PM
>> > That's my problem with most of the VR
>> > counselors, that I've dealt with!
>> > They don't really care about us!
>> > They just want to close our cases, because we're just
>> an
>> > unwanted
>> > burden, to them!
>> > I'm supporting you, and am hoping for the best.
>> > BTW, we complain all the time about VR, but what are
>> we
>> > doing to
>> > improve the system?
>> > How can we improve it?
>> > Well, after I get my degree, there's a job opening up,
>> in my
>> > state, to
>> > work for VR!
>> > If more of us, (clients,) started trying to get jobs,
>> > working for VR,
>> > we could be the very ones, to improve the systems, and
>> make
>> > them
>> > better support our people!
>> > As a VR counselor, I'd make sure that my clients were
>> able
>> > to get the
>> > jobs, that they want, if possible!
>> > Blessings, Joshua
>> >
>> > On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> > wrote:
>> > > Hi Josh,
>> > > No, this is an employee of the agency; its  a
>> job
>> > placement specialist, not
>> > >
>> > > a center.
>> > > My question is what do these people do? From the
>> one
>> > blind client I spoke
>> > > with, he said the specialist didn't do much of
>> anything
>> > but told him to look
>> > >
>> > > online for job ads.
>> > > I'll revise my sentence  from my first
>> email.
>> > >
>> > > After  I just told her I looked and few
>> entry
>> > level jobs there and to put
>> > > down an internship where my foot will be in the
>> door in
>> > the government  that
>> > >
>> > > may lead somewhere is insulting.
>> > > Not clear here what insulted me.
>> > >
>> > > After I just told her I looked and found few
>> entry
>> > level jobs I qualified
>> > > for, I told her I  had an internship coming
>> where
>> > I could get my foot in the
>> > >
>> > > door in the government and this internship may
>> lead to
>> > more permanent work,
>> > >
>> > > her comment about finding a real job insulted me.
>> > >
>> > > I'll add its like all she cares about getting
>> clients
>> > jobs, not good
>> > > careers, to heck with what they want to do, just
>> get
>> > them jobs and close
>> > > their cases.
>> > > Not a good attitude.  Also, many college
>> grads are
>> > doing just what I am--
>> > > getting internships to hopefully lead to full
>> time
>> > work. There was an
>> > > article in the New york times about this.
>> > Inexperienced young people cannot
>> > >
>> > > find work.  What world do vr counselors live
>> in?
>> > > Well not the real world where people are
>> struggling and
>> > worried about lay
>> > > off and people are losing homes or working three
>> part
>> > time jobs to pay for
>> > > the essentials of life.
>> > > I'm trying to say its tough for anyone, and being
>> > > blind makes it a little harder. A vr counselor
>> should
>> > support you by giving
>> > >
>> > > you the skills to look for work and help you
>> network,
>> > not throwing you to
>> > > some so called specialist who probably just finds
>> any
>> > job and if you take it
>> > >
>> > > they can close your case. No, I'll be bold and
>> stand up
>> > to them and go for
>> > > the job that fits my skills.
>> > >
>> > > Ashley
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: Joshua Lester
>> > > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:22 PM
>> > > To: National Association of Blind Students
>> mailing
>> > list
>> > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job
>> support
>> > >
>> > > LWSB was a job placement center.
>> > > You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS
>> programs.
>> > > If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to
>> send
>> > you to LWSB, or
>> > > a center like it!
>> > > Blessings, Joshua
>> > >
>> > > On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> > wrote:
>> > >> Hi all,
>> > >>
>> > >> Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject
>> line for
>> > this complex issue.
>> > >>
>> > >> I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a
>> general
>> > BA degree in liberal
>> > >> studies; kind of where you make your won
>> program to
>> > complete a degree; I
>> > >> picked  my concentrations of social
>> sciences
>> > and communication. Then
>> > >> after
>> > >> some training at our state center, I pursued
>> a
>> > writing certificate at
>> > >> Nova,
>> > >> northern Virginia community college.
>> I’m
>> > finishing that next semester.
>> > >> I
>> > >> wanted to add more to my resume and take
>> classes
>> > specific to writing, so
>> > >> this was a good investment for me.  My
>> career
>> > goal is broad; in this
>> > >> economy
>> > >> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind
>> or
>> > not.
>> > >> I desire to work in something to help people.
>> I’m
>> > thinking outreach,
>> > >> communication, customer service, or
>> > development.  I want to work with a
>> > >> team
>> > >> of people in an office.
>> > >>
>> > >> That is some background.  Now as we all
>> know
>> > getting a job is tough with
>> > >> the
>> > >> down economy and most jobs are gotten via
>> > networking anyway.
>> > >> I networked via a disability mentoring day
>> for
>> > customs and border patrol;
>> > >>
>> > >> I
>> > >> was refered for a unpaid internship in section
>> 508
>> > compliance after
>> > >> following up with the disability program
>> manager. I
>> > intend to get this
>> > >> internship once going through their rigorrous
>> > background check.
>> > >>
>> > >> Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor.
>> > I tell her I’m looking for
>> > >> work
>> > >> and explain barriers like lack of experience;
>> > visual tasks in entry level
>> > >> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data
>> entry
>> > etc, etc.
>> > >> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over
>> my
>> > case and I wonder if she
>> > >> is
>> > >> forcing a service on me for which it will do
>> no
>> > good.
>> > >>
>> > >> I then tell her about my internship to end
>> the
>> > call. “well, you are good
>> > >> at
>> > >> finding internships, but lets look for a real
>> > job.” How insulting! After
>> > >> I
>> > >> just told her I looked and few entry level
>> jobs
>> > there and to put down an
>> > >> internship where my foot will be in the door
>> in the
>> > government  that may
>> > >> lead somewhere is insulting.
>> > >>
>> > >> Have anyone of you worked with or  known
>> > people who worked with job
>> > >> placement specialists?  This counselor
>> wants
>> > to refer me
>> > >> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless
>> he
>> > actually takes me out to
>> > >> go
>> > >> in person to employers, its called cold calls.
>> I
>> > asked her what he’d do
>> > >> for
>> > >> me and she was real vague.
>> > >> “He’ll send you job leads.” she said.
>> > She said something about job
>> > >> announcements.
>> > >>
>> > >> I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I
>> just am
>> > not sure I should work
>> > >> with
>> > >> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a
>> waste
>> > of time.  I’d rather
>> > >> have
>> > >> vr work with me on things like a good cover
>> letter,
>> > interview skills,
>> > >> professional dos and don’ts, stuff like
>> that. So,
>> > I’m wondering if any of
>> > >> you had this service and how it went.
>> > >>
>> > >> Ashley
>> > >>
>> _______________________________________________
>> > >> nabs-l mailing list
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>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > nabs-l mailing list
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>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
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From rloew at ETS.ORG  Mon May 14 21:14:09 2012
From: rloew at ETS.ORG (Loew, Ruth)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 14:14:09 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] student conultants needed
Message-ID: <216E26F886846C4291CFEB500A05DAF80D112B4FD9@VA3DIAXVS9E1.RED001.local>

As many of you know, ETS is updating the self-voicing GRE General Test for blind and low-vision test takers.  We need some students or recent college grads who are blind or have low vision to come to the ETS campus in Princeton, NJ for a full day, preferably in early June, to try out and give feedback on the practice materials for the new version.  These individuals should be people who have not previously tried out or taken the self-voicing test.  They should be either college juniors/seniors or recent college graduates who are in, applying for, or at least considering grad school, and they should be comfortable using screen readers and other text-to-speech applications.

Since math content is included, as well as verbal, we need participants who are very familiar with mathematics, at least to the Algebra II level, and comfortable with Geometry. This familiarity must be current (that is, the person can't be "rusty").  We'd like, if at all possible, to find people who are within a one-day round trip of Princeton - the NYC/NJ/Philadelphia/Delaware area.  We'll pay for transportation, and participants will receive payment.

If you're interested, please contact me off-list: RLoew at ets.org<mailto:RLoew at ets.org>.  Thanks!

I'll be at Convention, as usual, and hope to meet more of you there.

Ruth C. Loew, Ph.D.
Assistant Director
Office of Disability Policy, ETS
phone: 609-683-2984
fax: 609-683-2220



From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Mon May 14 21:46:07 2012
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 14:46:07 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOujpDmDej1jqs6jYmQCh88zttBGQGtzi4FB9A3qA9ooyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAL57mpFmePWq_psp52GM-vtFyhHsAGjaHO1hbBS1Um+WKXY4Fg@mail.gmail.com><008501cd1cd4$364b9560$a2e2c020$@mchsi.com><7B1E894D8D294C52A5DF89EA9610306A@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOujpDmDej1jqs6jYmQCh88zttBGQGtzi4FB9A3qA9ooyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B23D3BCB1AF4422480AFA8B63C8C4843@HUMBERTOAVILA>

I think the Refreshabraille braille display from APH is the cheapest so far
in my list. It is somewhere around $1500 ranges, but I'm not sure. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 10:18 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer

The Focus 40 Blue, is $2695.00.
Too expensive for me!
I'd bet, that the 20 cell is half that!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> I've always dreamed of a braille display, all expensive. How much is the
> focus and does it come in different cell lengths? Like can you get one
with
>
> 20 celss vs 40?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loren
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 3:56 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
>
> I think I would go with the focus.  It is less expensive than the
> brailliant.
>
> Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Amanda Cape
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 7:52 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
>
> Hi fellow listers,
> I am looking into getting a braille display that could work with my iphone
> and computer. Which one do you recommend? The brailliant or the focs 40
> blue? What model of the brailliant if you recommend that one?
> Amanda
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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>

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 21:54:49 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 17:54:49 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
In-Reply-To: <4FB16D46.2080405@visi.com>
References: <CAL57mpFmePWq_psp52GM-vtFyhHsAGjaHO1hbBS1Um+WKXY4Fg@mail.gmail.com><008501cd1cd4$364b9560$a2e2c020$@mchsi.com><7B1E894D8D294C52A5DF89EA9610306A@OwnerPC>
	<4FB16D46.2080405@visi.com>
Message-ID: <29053D665FAE41DD97A1940F35DC228C@OwnerPC>

cool, thanks for sharing.

-----Original Message----- 
From: David Andrews
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 4:38 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer

An interesting, less expensive alternative, which has recently become
available is a new Seikka display from Perkins products -- can't
remember the name.  It is only 16 cells I think, but is $1549.  Some
people might want a small, compact display with their iPhones.

Dave



On 5/14/2012 12:04 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
> I've always dreamed of a braille display, all expensive. How much is the 
> focus and does it come in different cell lengths? Like can you get one 
> with 20 celss vs 40?
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Loren
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 3:56 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
>
> I think I would go with the focus.  It is less expensive than the
> brailliant.
>
> Loren Wakefield
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Amanda Cape
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 7:52 AM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
>
> Hi fellow listers,
> I am looking into getting a braille display that could work with my iphone
> and computer. Which one do you recommend? The brailliant or the focs 40
> blue? What model of the brailliant if you recommend that one?
> Amanda


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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May 14 21:57:51 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 17:57:51 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJA3aLfC5dYXAFFqay5v=7qaNixozUOp9Rh_A6f_6qu+5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1337021928.52863.YahooMailClassic@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com><B5E709F7A09E4AEA992B111D2DABDC8A@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJA3aLfC5dYXAFFqay5v=7qaNixozUOp9Rh_A6f_6qu+5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EABBEF94B08D4DD5B538E480519CDFDA@OwnerPC>

Arielle,
great advice and wisdom. Its our life. As for me, I'm going ahead with the 
unpaid internship as I believe it will give me real experience I could use 
in a job. It doesn't matter what my counselor thinks; I simply explain what 
I'm doing while looking for work. They cannot stop us from doing what we 
want.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 4:53 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support

Hi all,
Anmol, I appreciate your perspective on this. As a student and future
employee of the system you know quite a bit more about it than many of
us. I agree that none of us are required to enter the voc rehab system
or to obey any of the suggestions of our VR counselors. Like DSS
offices, VR is just one more tool in the toolbox or one more basket to
put our eggs in, as it were. To maximize the chances of landing a job
we need to be willing to put our eggs into as many different baskets
as we can.
I did not have a VR case at all until my senior year of college, and
even then when I opened one I was clear that my only reason for doing
so was to get funding for training in Louisiana. I did not discuss or
debate my career plans with my counselor or submit any kind of reports
to them about what I was doing in school. I did not permit him to
advise me about what field to go into or what kind of job training to
get. I simply drafted and signed an employment plan with my counselor
and argued that training at LCB was an important part of the plan. It
took a little fighting but they fulfilled their duty and sent me
there. After that I moved to Boulder, CO and once I established
Colorado residency and lost Arizona residency, I allowed the Arizona
VR to close my case and didn't open a new case in Colorado.
Technically I am a part-time employee of my university and a part-time
student, so I'm not sure if I would be counted as a successful closure
or not by their standards. I certainly haven't attained my career goal
yet of being a university professor, since I'm still a grad student,
and I probably could open a new case in Colorado, but I simply feel
like it would be more of a hassle than a help in my particular
situation. I'm not saying that all of you should close your cases, but
I'm just saying you can, and should, pick and choose which services
you take advantage of and what you can get from other means with less
hassle. If you want to pursue an opportunity like an internship or a
different college major, go for it no matter what your VR counselor
says or thinks about it. Even if they threaten to take away an
essential service like tuition assistance or technology, it might be
worth at least finding out if you can find a way to get that essential
service without having to change your plans to satisfy their wishes or
rules. It is your life, in the end.
I do think most VR counselors care about their clients. However, as
Anmol has described, the pressure from above to close as many cases as
possible influences their decisions. Further, there are lots of
middlemen the VR counselor must work with to complete the process of
ordering technology or authorizing services, and if even one of those
guys is incompetent for whatever reason, the deed doesn't get done. In
my opinion, the system must be streamlined, and counselors should be
incentivized to place clients in higher-status or better-paying jobs,
not just jobs period.
Arielle

On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Anmol
> Good points. they need closures for funding. Even though as I said if it’s 
> a
> dead end job lets say a customer service job at home depo or a fast food
> joint, the case will have to be reopened.  Ideally, counselors should work
> with you to get a job commensurate with your skills, interests and
> abilities. But as you said, sadly this is not often the case. Yeah, fast
> food jobs and then case closure, doesn't sound related to a vr goal to me.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Anmol Bhatia
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 2:58 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>
> Ashley,
> I agree that getting an internship or frankly even a enter level job is
> important. It is a step that will help you land a full time job, and give
> you an opportunity to network. So your VR Counselor had know right to tell
> you to "go get a real job". As a future VR Counselor, I would encourage 
> you
> to continue doing what you are doing, but remember that VR Counselor are
> under alot of pressure to close so many cases regardless of the type of
> employment they received. Many times in order to meet their number of 
> cases
> closed so that the Rehab Agency can show to law makers that they have
> successfully closed cases, VR Counselors have to close the case regardless
> of the type of job the consumer has received. Many times they have to 
> close
> cases even when the consumer has only found a fast food job, nothing 
> related
> to their Vocational Goals just so they can show their boss and on up to 
> the
> law makers that the agency has closed so many cases in order to receive
> funding for the next year.
>
> Anmol
> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps
> there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze
> among flowers.
> Hellen Keller
>
>
> --- On Mon, 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> From: Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: Monday, May 14, 2012, 1:40 PM
>> Anmol,
>> Sorry but I really feel that some vr counselors don't care
>> much. If they don't call or write back timely, if they will
>> not update your equipment putting you at a even greater
>> disadvantage, it seems to me they don't care.
>>
>> I did network and worked on my own to attain all internships
>> including the pending one. I even had to install my personal
>> copy of jaws at national crime prevention council, since
>> being non government they could not procure jaws for me.
>>
>> When people, whether blind or sighted, cannot find work,
>> they often get more internships to get more experience. Many
>> college grads do this in this economy.  And to have
>> that effort put down was real insulting to me.  And
>> what in blazes does my counselor think is a "real job".
>> Okay, as far as I'm concerned a "real job" is one which you
>> go to work, contribute, and get paid for it.  A real
>> job to me has potential for advancement. I'm concerned that
>> when they just say jobs, it could be anything just to close
>> your case.
>>
>> I'll add then you cannot go anywhere in a job and say get
>> laid off or lose the job then, and then know what you do?
>> You open a vr case again! If you found a good quality job in
>> the first place that seemed secure and where you exercised
>> transferable skills, uyou will not need to reopen your
>> case.
>>
>> Yeah, I try and find internships and jobs. Not enough blind
>> people do it, that is for sure.
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia
>> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 2:18 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>>
>> Josh,
>> As a person who will be a VR Counselor within the next year
>> or two, I do not really appreciate people saying that VR
>> Counselors do not care about their consumers. I have had a
>> whole new appreciation for the field of Rehabilitation
>> Counseling and for VR Counselors since I have enrolled in
>> the MS in Rehabilitation Counseling program at the
>> University of Arkansas.
>> I agree that what Ashley's counselor is doing is not good.
>> Networking and getting internship experience is important
>> since thats how you get a job, and as a counselor I will
>> encourage that. However, to say we do not care and the only
>> thing we are interested in is to close a case is frankly not
>> true for most counselors.
>> The government spends alot of money on rehabilitation, but
>> the unemployment number is still not going down. So tax
>> payers want answers and our elected officials who have to
>> answer to tax payers put pressure on directors of the
>> rehabilitation agencies to show results and the directors
>> put pressure on people under them and it goes all the way
>> down to the bottom person who is the VR Counselor. The
>> counselors are told to close so many cases with a 6 which
>> means that the case has been successful and the Consumer is
>> employed or else lose their job. However, policy makers do
>> not consider factors that have hender the ability of a blind
>> person to get a job such as a poor economy, the historical
>> high number of blind people who are unemployed, and so on.
>> All they care about is how many blind people are employed so
>> that they can justify spending the money they are spending
>> on rehabilitation.
>> The process of finding a job is a two way process and it
>> takes both the VR Counselor and the Consumer to work
>> together. The Counselor needs the Consumer to find
>> employment so that they can successfully close their case
>> and keep their job, but whats more important is that the
>> consumer needs to do everything they can to find themself a
>> job so that they can get off SSDI and live a happy and
>> successful life.
>> To be quite frank, and it will afend some people on this
>> list, but many blind people are not doing their part to find
>> themself a job. To many blind people expect the VR Counselor
>> to do everything. To be quite honest, it has got to a point
>> to where people consider rehab to be a right instead of a
>> privledge. In many countries they do not have rehab and
>> blind people are still managing to live and some have pretty
>> successful careers. There is know law that says that you
>> have to take rehabilitation so if you do not like your
>> counselor or do not like the process of rehabilitation, then
>> simply request for your case to be closed. The blind person
>> is totally capable to find their own job, and they should do
>> as much for themself as they can. As a future VR Counselor I
>> will do whatever I can to help my Consumers, this why I
>> entered this field but I can not help consumers who do not
>> want to help themselves. So before making clames that VR
>> Counselors do not care
>> about their consumers, think about the job we have to do and
>> ask yourself if you are doing everything to help yourself.
>>
>> Anmol
>> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me
>> sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but
>> it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
>> Hellen Keller
>>
>>
>> --- On Sun, 5/13/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> > Date: Sunday, May 13, 2012, 4:59 PM
>> > That's my problem with most of the VR
>> > counselors, that I've dealt with!
>> > They don't really care about us!
>> > They just want to close our cases, because we're just
>> an
>> > unwanted
>> > burden, to them!
>> > I'm supporting you, and am hoping for the best.
>> > BTW, we complain all the time about VR, but what are
>> we
>> > doing to
>> > improve the system?
>> > How can we improve it?
>> > Well, after I get my degree, there's a job opening up,
>> in my
>> > state, to
>> > work for VR!
>> > If more of us, (clients,) started trying to get jobs,
>> > working for VR,
>> > we could be the very ones, to improve the systems, and
>> make
>> > them
>> > better support our people!
>> > As a VR counselor, I'd make sure that my clients were
>> able
>> > to get the
>> > jobs, that they want, if possible!
>> > Blessings, Joshua
>> >
>> > On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> > wrote:
>> > > Hi Josh,
>> > > No, this is an employee of the agency; its  a
>> job
>> > placement specialist, not
>> > >
>> > > a center.
>> > > My question is what do these people do? From the
>> one
>> > blind client I spoke
>> > > with, he said the specialist didn't do much of
>> anything
>> > but told him to look
>> > >
>> > > online for job ads.
>> > > I'll revise my sentence  from my first
>> email.
>> > >
>> > > After  I just told her I looked and few
>> entry
>> > level jobs there and to put
>> > > down an internship where my foot will be in the
>> door in
>> > the government  that
>> > >
>> > > may lead somewhere is insulting.
>> > > Not clear here what insulted me.
>> > >
>> > > After I just told her I looked and found few
>> entry
>> > level jobs I qualified
>> > > for, I told her I  had an internship coming
>> where
>> > I could get my foot in the
>> > >
>> > > door in the government and this internship may
>> lead to
>> > more permanent work,
>> > >
>> > > her comment about finding a real job insulted me.
>> > >
>> > > I'll add its like all she cares about getting
>> clients
>> > jobs, not good
>> > > careers, to heck with what they want to do, just
>> get
>> > them jobs and close
>> > > their cases.
>> > > Not a good attitude.  Also, many college
>> grads are
>> > doing just what I am--
>> > > getting internships to hopefully lead to full
>> time
>> > work. There was an
>> > > article in the New york times about this.
>> > Inexperienced young people cannot
>> > >
>> > > find work.  What world do vr counselors live
>> in?
>> > > Well not the real world where people are
>> struggling and
>> > worried about lay
>> > > off and people are losing homes or working three
>> part
>> > time jobs to pay for
>> > > the essentials of life.
>> > > I'm trying to say its tough for anyone, and being
>> > > blind makes it a little harder. A vr counselor
>> should
>> > support you by giving
>> > >
>> > > you the skills to look for work and help you
>> network,
>> > not throwing you to
>> > > some so called specialist who probably just finds
>> any
>> > job and if you take it
>> > >
>> > > they can close your case. No, I'll be bold and
>> stand up
>> > to them and go for
>> > > the job that fits my skills.
>> > >
>> > > Ashley
>> > >
>> > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > From: Joshua Lester
>> > > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:22 PM
>> > > To: National Association of Blind Students
>> mailing
>> > list
>> > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job
>> support
>> > >
>> > > LWSB was a job placement center.
>> > > You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS
>> programs.
>> > > If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to
>> send
>> > you to LWSB, or
>> > > a center like it!
>> > > Blessings, Joshua
>> > >
>> > > On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
>> > wrote:
>> > >> Hi all,
>> > >>
>> > >> Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject
>> line for
>> > this complex issue.
>> > >>
>> > >> I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a
>> general
>> > BA degree in liberal
>> > >> studies; kind of where you make your won
>> program to
>> > complete a degree; I
>> > >> picked  my concentrations of social
>> sciences
>> > and communication. Then
>> > >> after
>> > >> some training at our state center, I pursued
>> a
>> > writing certificate at
>> > >> Nova,
>> > >> northern Virginia community college.
>> I’m
>> > finishing that next semester.
>> > >> I
>> > >> wanted to add more to my resume and take
>> classes
>> > specific to writing, so
>> > >> this was a good investment for me.  My
>> career
>> > goal is broad; in this
>> > >> economy
>> > >> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind
>> or
>> > not.
>> > >> I desire to work in something to help people.
>> I’m
>> > thinking outreach,
>> > >> communication, customer service, or
>> > development.  I want to work with a
>> > >> team
>> > >> of people in an office.
>> > >>
>> > >> That is some background.  Now as we all
>> know
>> > getting a job is tough with
>> > >> the
>> > >> down economy and most jobs are gotten via
>> > networking anyway.
>> > >> I networked via a disability mentoring day
>> for
>> > customs and border patrol;
>> > >>
>> > >> I
>> > >> was refered for a unpaid internship in section
>> 508
>> > compliance after
>> > >> following up with the disability program
>> manager. I
>> > intend to get this
>> > >> internship once going through their rigorrous
>> > background check.
>> > >>
>> > >> Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor.
>> > I tell her I’m looking for
>> > >> work
>> > >> and explain barriers like lack of experience;
>> > visual tasks in entry level
>> > >> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data
>> entry
>> > etc, etc.
>> > >> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over
>> my
>> > case and I wonder if she
>> > >> is
>> > >> forcing a service on me for which it will do
>> no
>> > good.
>> > >>
>> > >> I then tell her about my internship to end
>> the
>> > call. “well, you are good
>> > >> at
>> > >> finding internships, but lets look for a real
>> > job.” How insulting! After
>> > >> I
>> > >> just told her I looked and few entry level
>> jobs
>> > there and to put down an
>> > >> internship where my foot will be in the door
>> in the
>> > government  that may
>> > >> lead somewhere is insulting.
>> > >>
>> > >> Have anyone of you worked with or  known
>> > people who worked with job
>> > >> placement specialists?  This counselor
>> wants
>> > to refer me
>> > >> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless
>> he
>> > actually takes me out to
>> > >> go
>> > >> in person to employers, its called cold calls.
>> I
>> > asked her what he’d do
>> > >> for
>> > >> me and she was real vague.
>> > >> “He’ll send you job leads.” she said.
>> > She said something about job
>> > >> announcements.
>> > >>
>> > >> I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I
>> just am
>> > not sure I should work
>> > >> with
>> > >> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a
>> waste
>> > of time.  I’d rather
>> > >> have
>> > >> vr work with me on things like a good cover
>> letter,
>> > interview skills,
>> > >> professional dos and don’ts, stuff like
>> that. So,
>> > I’m wondering if any of
>> > >> you had this service and how it went.
>> > >>
>> > >> Ashley
>> > >>
>> _______________________________________________
>> > >> nabs-l mailing list
>> > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> > >>
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
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>> > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Mon May 14 22:41:10 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 17:41:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] Fw: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines isno
	longeraccessible using speech [Incident: 120307-000422]
In-Reply-To: <30269708464F4774A9C2774C5265643C@OwnerPC>
References: <4f761daf.9021e00a.1958.ffffb26c@mx.google.com>
	<30269708464F4774A9C2774C5265643C@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <7993AD14-E21D-4CDA-A472-7E958CD201A5@gmail.com>

What if if sighted people couldn't access the site? Would they worry then? This is concerning and we must advocate laws preventing this discrimination.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 14, 2012, at 10:39 AM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Did they ever make the site accessible?
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 4:54 PM
> To: Blind Talk Mailing List ; NFB NABS list ; NFB Talk List
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] [Blindtlk] Fw: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines isno longeraccessible using speech [Incident: 120307-000422]
> 
> Reese,
> 
> Great advocacy on your part!! Good for you!! It appears as though
> Spirit Airlines is trying to make some kind of excuse for their
> inaccessible Web site, and are politely dismissing the complaints
> which you have filed with them as having no real legal backing.
> After all, blind people can't possibly know the law, right?
> Spirit Airlines has people to investigate this; just trust them!
> But the problem is that these legal "experts" work for the very
> company which is the subject of your complaints.  So it is only
> natural that they will try to find some law or regulation to
> cover their you-know-what's.  Maybe the DOT doesn't require them
> to make their Web site accessible to us, but a law that
> supercedes any DOT regulation, the ADA (passed by Congress and
> signed into law by the then-President in 1990,) that does.  In
> short, this response by Michelle of Spirit Airlines, in my
> opinion, boils down to this: "The DOT doesn't require us to make
> our Web site accessible, and therefore your complaint has no
> legal precedent.  As far as we can tell, we're following the law,
> so screw all you blind people!"
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
> 2 Corinthians 5:7
> 
> Sent from my BrailleNote
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Reese" <atlanticstar1 at gmail.com
> To: "Blind Talk Mailing List" <blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> sent: Wed, 28 Mar 2012 13:55:57 -0400
> Subject: [Blindtlk] Fw: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no
> longeraccessible using speech [Incident: 120307-000422]
> 
> Please circulate this message where ever you feel its
> appropriate.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> 
> Hello list:
> 
> Here's the final word from Spirit Airlines regarding there
> inaccessible
> website.  It will follow my final reply to them.  Again the US
> Department of
> Transportation has dropped the ball on this one just like they
> did with the
> accessible airport boarding.
> 
> Reese
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peachtreetravel.net" <reservations at peachtreetravel.net
> To: "Spirit Airlines" <spiritair at mailnj.custhelp.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 1:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer
> accessible
> using speech [Incident: 120307-000422]
> 
> 
> Dear Michelle:
> 
> First I want to thank you for researching this serious matter
> both for me
> and all of the members of my Organization.   Regretfully I'll
> have to inform
> the 50,000 members of my organization to do business else where
> until Spirit
> Airlines website is accessible once again.  For this is the only
> way to
> achieve fare and equal access.
> 
> I will check back from time to time to see if true access ever
> returns to
> spirit Airlines and will keep my members up to date.  It has been
> good doing
> business with you and hopefully we
> can resume doing business again in the future.
> 
> Sincerely yours,
> 
> Maurice P Shackelford
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Spirit Airlines" <spiritair at mailnj.custhelp.com
> To: <reservations at peachtreetravel.net
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2012 9:38 AM
> Subject: [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer
> accessible using
> speech [Incident: 120307-000422]
> 
> 
> 
> Subject
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> [Travelandtourism] Spirit Airlines is no longer accessible using
> speech
> 
> 
> Discussion Thread
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> (Michelle 62611) - 03/27/2012 09:38 AM
> Dear Mr.  Shackelford,
> 
> Thank you for your patience as we investigated this matter
> thoroughly.
> 
> We sincerely regret that you are unable to access the check box
> for the $9
> Fare Club membership and or the check box at the end of the
> booking.
> However, this is not a violation of DOT's disability rule.
> Please be advised
> that airlines are governed under the Department of Transportation
> and their
> disability rule, 14 CFR 382, and are under no legal obligation to
> provide an
> accessible website.  We are required, under 14 CFR 382.31(c), to
> disclose
> web-based discount fares to any prospective passenger who
> contacts the
> carrier via other normal channels for inquiring about fares,
> making a
> reservation, or purchasing transportation (e.g.  telephone
> reservation line,
> airport ticket counter) and states that he or she has a visual
> impairment
> and is unable to use the website.  The carrier must sell a
> web-based discount fare to such a person if his or her itinerary
> qualifies
> for the fare as it is offered on the web (e.g., same cities and
> dates).
> 
> Our IT Department has reviewed your claim and they have informed
> me that
> they changed the boxes on our booking path to styled check boxes
> which don't
> work in the browser types you've attempted to use.  The change
> was made
> nearly a year ago and this has been the first complaint brought
> to their
> attention on the matter.  They are reviewing options to allow
> these types of
> browsers to work with the needed functionality for our customers
> with visual
> impairments.
> 
> I regret that I cannot offer more information on the matter, but
> thank you
> for bringing this to our attention.
> 
> Please note, if you ever encounter problems when traveling with
> us, feel
> free to ask our Spirit Airlines customer service personnel for a
> Complaint
> Resolution Official (CRO).  Our CROs have been specially trained
> and are
> aware of applicable Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and
> Department of
> Transportation (DOT) disability regulations.  Our CROs are
> available at all
> airport locations and will be glad to respond to your concerns.
> 
> We trust we have addressed you concerns in a satisfactory manner;
> however,
> if you choose to pursue enforcement action, you have the right to
> contact
> the Department of Transportation, in accordance with ACAA and DOT
> rule 14
> CFR Part 382.
> 
> Please feel free to contact me if you ever require assistance.
> We know you
> have a choice in air travel and are grateful you choose Spirit
> Airlines.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Michelle 62611
> Disability Specialist/
> Corporate Escalation Officer
> Spirit Airlines
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> blindtlk mailing list
> blindtlk at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/blindtlk_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for blindtlk:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/blindtlk_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusb
> aum%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
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> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon May 14 22:47:57 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 18:47:57 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook question
In-Reply-To: <D305F848C3944DBAAC7163085E15DCBB@OwnerPC>
References: <4f7381c3.e215440a.5e4e.ffffe4b0@mx.google.com><E2070599-9B38-4043-9343-68DBF697E468@gmail.com><9FD14F60E8114BDB805F99FD6C40730A@Espy><FA632E34-4566-4266-BAC8-A53CD8B99093@gmail.com><CA+N-3k2sF=3hNMoOZ_CO-waJJSTg-wKD1yKL6zkdgcO1Sv=XMg@mail.gmail.com><CAMJOM=0Vazw21mLFUaPwTBG93PCAfgqnbNtY3=ut1dASeVC93Q@mail.gmail.com><CA+N-3k3MvmpokLJxRiWB6_3x3ZSw5j5NYMhrgKfz7Fg0ZJWZZQ@mail.gmail.com><CAO83KOse_VpOcBUnLMZQS2QNtTJUnMBvBUMb0ayHEgqXLERzfw@mail.gmail.com><75D256D44B2D4BD398EEC55B1B7DB9DB@OwnerPC><2631E97681F24BA58FA9625116074E6A@userPC>	<CAC0sDO7UudpgsMZe93bN2=c3ynW5y0D6NnkM+X=QjTUObfQQpw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D305F848C3944DBAAC7163085E15DCBB@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <000801cd3223$9c85a1e0$d590e5a0$@gmail.com>

I think m.facebook.com is much more accessible than the regular Facebook
site. If it's not more accessible, then it's definitely less confusing for
JAWS users.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 2:20 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question

thanks. which was the site that was more accessible?

-----Original Message-----
From: Laurel
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:44 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question

Yes, you can add friends, write on people's walls, comment on things and
post things fairly easily. If you ever need help, please feel free to write
me off list at laurel.stockard at gmail.com and I'd be happy to help you out.
What screen reading technology do you use?
Laurel and Stockard

On 5/14/12, Rania Ismail CMT <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes Ashley you can.
> Usem.facebook.com It's easyer with screene readers.
> Rania,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 12:31 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
>
> Hi,
> I am thinking of joining facebook. I thought adding friends and 
> requesting them was accessible. Is that right?
> Can you write on other's walls?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 6:11 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
>
> I experimented with Facebook, last year.
> I didn't like it, because I had problems, adding people, and sending 
> messages.
> Also, when I was in high school, I experimented with Myspace, and,
> (IMO,) Myspace was more accessible than Facebook.
> I've deleted both accounts, (BTW.)
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
>> i don't know really how to do it, just that it does not work on the 
>> moble site. now for the phones, but not for computers using 
>> m.facebook.com
>>
>> On 3/28/12, josh gregory <joshkart12 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hmmm... any way to do this on iPhone?
>>>
>>> On 3/28/12, jeff crouch <jeffanel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> it only works on the main facebook site.
>>>>
>>>> with love
>>>> Jeff Crouch
>>>>
>>>> On 3/28/12, Stephanie DeLuca <sjhhirst at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I think so..on my android phone, if I am typing a comment and then 
>>>>> press the menu/settings button on the phone, and there is an 
>>>>> option for "people".
>>>>> It
>>>>> pulls up your friends list, and I select from that.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:40 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you do it on the mobile site, or can it only be done with the 
>>>>>> regular facebook site?
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephanie DeLuca"
>>>>>> <sjhhirst at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 5:36 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook question
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think to tag people when you're writing a comment or 
>>>>>>> something, just write @ (the "at" symbol) and type their name.  
>>>>>>> A list of your Facebook friends should pop up, from which you 
>>>>>>> can select who you want to tag.
>>>>>>> Hope this helps,
>>>>>>> Stephanie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 28, 2012, at 4:25 PM, Jim Portillo wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not sure what this is called, but I was wondering if 
>>>>>>>> someone can give me the name and tell me how to do it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When I'm posting on facebook and I include another person who 
>>>>>>>> also has a facebook page (a friend), how do I make it to where 
>>>>>>>> the link to their page appears as well?  Is this called 
>>>>>>>> Tagging, or does that only happen in photos?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I just notice that when friends are using facebook and post 
>>>>>>>> some activity, they can mention others and have a link to their 
>>>>>>>> page.  If anyone knows, let me know as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can this be done from the mobile FB site or from the main site 
>>>>>>>> only?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.c
> om
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmai
> l.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.c
> om
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail.c
> om
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> 73
>>>> kd8qiq
>>>> jeff crouch
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joshkart12%40gmail
> .com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent via gmail.com
>>> Email: joshkart12 at gmail.com
>>> Skype: joshgregory93
>>>  twitter: JoshG93
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jeffanel%40gmail
>>> .com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> 73
>> kd8qiq
>> jeff crouch
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
> ents.p
> ccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
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> net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> ail.co
> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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net 


_______________________________________________
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om



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon May 14 22:49:59 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 18:49:59 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
In-Reply-To: <CAEwUdjPcN08u22VPjq3zuNC29mJVvZRwaM6-EqJBYHkjq+ohZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4F9814A3.6050203@gmail.com>	<646578647CFA476F8DAB20F2CE0C9131@OwnerPC>	<42ABB58C-FF72-475B-9540-C3813B30CA84@gmail.com>	<C50F489E11C74A378F4D6C4C18C7DE50@userPC>
	<CAEwUdjPcN08u22VPjq3zuNC29mJVvZRwaM6-EqJBYHkjq+ohZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000901cd3223$e4fa5e70$aeef1b50$@gmail.com>

You're asking me? <smile! The email is nabs.membership at gmail.com.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Darian Smith
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition

Chris:

 If it's a good  topic for a future membership call, how can people get a
hold of  the membership committee?  :)
  Best,
  Darian

On 4/25/12, Rania Ismail CMT <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree.
> Rania,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Jorge Paez
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 8:05 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
>
> Certainly.
> I think this would be very helpful.
>
>
> On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
>
>> good idea
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Antonio Guimaraes
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 11:13 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
>>
>> I don't know if this is something NABS would want to undertake, but 
>> here is an idea that came from writing my last message on scholarships.
>>
>> A comprehensive Student Slate article dealing with this and other 
>> student issues beyond blindness would be welcome.
>>
>> Perhaps a Student Slate, student finances edition to cover student 
>> loans, financial aid, fraud, saving, salary negotiation, earning 
>> expectations? There's a table of contents. NABS just needs to find 
>> the financial bright minds of the organization to write the stories. 
>> I'm not one of them. Prefer the arts myself.
>>
>> Yes, I did just sidestep writing a piece, but would love to read such 
>> an issue.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Antonio Guimaraes
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>>
>
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> net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
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> mail.c
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>
>
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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> ail.co
> m
>
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--
Darian Smith

"To dream what is possible and to put oneself in service of that dream is
the formula for a life well lived."

- Dr. Peter Benson

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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Mon May 14 23:03:47 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 18:03:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] hello
In-Reply-To: <642B2EBC4A2141BBBDB01B859E5A9EC6@OwnerPC>
References: <CAC0sDO4QHbh0A-saK_x6TVkd3mvsLs9qWcCj_rPwJXpxj8dfxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<26B3A49C7E6A4D4297025D4C5108E5DA@OwnerPC>
	<CAC0sDO6pRWoeNZQTz23_0qAQW9cbWOa+4KH+o5Qh+JxqT7MVLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<642B2EBC4A2141BBBDB01B859E5A9EC6@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <F70065DB-BCF1-4A9B-9F7C-2AEC1D4BA2F4@gmail.com>

Welcome to the list! And I'm impressed w your skills. I take French and can't imagine doing it auditorily.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 14, 2012, at 12:49 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hi,
> well then you have a great memory. I could never study all auditorily. I studied my vocabulary with braille and writing it again and again when I was in spanish.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Laurel
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:32 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
> 
> HI Ashley,
> I use braille, but I mainly work with a laptop and screen reader. I
> just memorize the spelling of the words and I use a Russian and Arabic
> language keyboards, so all I have to do is memorize which letters are
> where on the keyboard, and the order of letters in the words and it
> works fine. It's hard at first, but after awhile it's not too bad at
> all.
> Laurel and Stockard
> 
> On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Laurel,
>> This is a bit late response, but welcome to the list. I recently finished a
>> 
>> busy semester.
>> I am a continuing education student at a community college; I have my degree
>> 
>> already but I'm studying more while I look for work. This writing
>> certificate has definitely enhanced my skills and practice in writing.
>> How do you study foreign languages? It can be  kind of visual with pictures;
>> 
>> I know they used that in spanish when I took it in high school. Do you use
>> braille?  I would think so otherwise you cannot see the spelling of words.
>> I hope you enjoy the list.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Laurel
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:30 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] hello
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> I just joined this list so I wanted to take a moment to introduce
>> myself. My name is Laurel. I am a 20 year old college student in the
>> Dallas, TX area. I study French and Russian. I have a working guide
>> dog named Stockard. Stockard is a female yellow lab from Guide Dogs
>> for the Blind and she will turn 4 in September. We have been a team
>> for 2 years. I hope to get to know all of you well.
>> Laurel and Stockard
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue May 15 00:49:31 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 20:49:31 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] hello
In-Reply-To: <F70065DB-BCF1-4A9B-9F7C-2AEC1D4BA2F4@gmail.com>
References: <CAC0sDO4QHbh0A-saK_x6TVkd3mvsLs9qWcCj_rPwJXpxj8dfxw@mail.gmail.com>	<26B3A49C7E6A4D4297025D4C5108E5DA@OwnerPC>	<CAC0sDO6pRWoeNZQTz23_0qAQW9cbWOa+4KH+o5Qh+JxqT7MVLg@mail.gmail.com>	<642B2EBC4A2141BBBDB01B859E5A9EC6@OwnerPC>
	<F70065DB-BCF1-4A9B-9F7C-2AEC1D4BA2F4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000d01cd3234$97d57790$c78066b0$@gmail.com>

I too am impressed! I can't imagine taking Spanish without Braille.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Sophie Trist
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 7:04 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello

Welcome to the list! And I'm impressed w your skills. I take French and
can't imagine doing it auditorily.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 14, 2012, at 12:49 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
wrote:

> Hi,
> well then you have a great memory. I could never study all auditorily. I
studied my vocabulary with braille and writing it again and again when I was
in spanish.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Laurel
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:32 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
> 
> HI Ashley,
> I use braille, but I mainly work with a laptop and screen reader. I 
> just memorize the spelling of the words and I use a Russian and Arabic 
> language keyboards, so all I have to do is memorize which letters are 
> where on the keyboard, and the order of letters in the words and it 
> works fine. It's hard at first, but after awhile it's not too bad at 
> all.
> Laurel and Stockard
> 
> On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Laurel,
>> This is a bit late response, but welcome to the list. I recently 
>> finished a
>> 
>> busy semester.
>> I am a continuing education student at a community college; I have my 
>> degree
>> 
>> already but I'm studying more while I look for work. This writing 
>> certificate has definitely enhanced my skills and practice in writing.
>> How do you study foreign languages? It can be  kind of visual with 
>> pictures;
>> 
>> I know they used that in spanish when I took it in high school. Do 
>> you use braille?  I would think so otherwise you cannot see the spelling
of words.
>> I hope you enjoy the list.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Laurel
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:30 AM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] hello
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> I just joined this list so I wanted to take a moment to introduce 
>> myself. My name is Laurel. I am a 20 year old college student in the 
>> Dallas, TX area. I study French and Russian. I have a working guide 
>> dog named Stockard. Stockard is a female yellow lab from Guide Dogs 
>> for the Blind and she will turn 4 in September. We have been a team 
>> for 2 years. I hope to get to know all of you well.
>> Laurel and Stockard
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear
>> thlink.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%4
>> 0gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart
> hlink.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40g
> mail.com

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om



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue May 15 01:02:27 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 20:02:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] hello
In-Reply-To: <000d01cd3234$97d57790$c78066b0$@gmail.com>
References: <CAC0sDO4QHbh0A-saK_x6TVkd3mvsLs9qWcCj_rPwJXpxj8dfxw@mail.gmail.com>
	<26B3A49C7E6A4D4297025D4C5108E5DA@OwnerPC>
	<CAC0sDO6pRWoeNZQTz23_0qAQW9cbWOa+4KH+o5Qh+JxqT7MVLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<642B2EBC4A2141BBBDB01B859E5A9EC6@OwnerPC>
	<F70065DB-BCF1-4A9B-9F7C-2AEC1D4BA2F4@gmail.com>
	<000d01cd3234$97d57790$c78066b0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOuDt5gtAAbpmbDBFBP_mUC2Wq7LedF3foOsVun2TbGX1Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Sophie.
Ashley is actually a veteran poster on this list.
She has been here, before alot of us.
She was here, before I joined, in 2011.
I agree with both you, and Chris!
I'm impressed!
I couldn't have done Spanish, auditoraly, either!
I can't even do math, that way!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/14/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> I too am impressed! I can't imagine taking Spanish without Braille.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Sophie Trist
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 7:04 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
>
> Welcome to the list! And I'm impressed w your skills. I take French and
> can't imagine doing it auditorily.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 14, 2012, at 12:49 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> well then you have a great memory. I could never study all auditorily. I
> studied my vocabulary with braille and writing it again and again when I
> was
> in spanish.
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Laurel
>> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:32 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
>>
>> HI Ashley,
>> I use braille, but I mainly work with a laptop and screen reader. I
>> just memorize the spelling of the words and I use a Russian and Arabic
>> language keyboards, so all I have to do is memorize which letters are
>> where on the keyboard, and the order of letters in the words and it
>> works fine. It's hard at first, but after awhile it's not too bad at
>> all.
>> Laurel and Stockard
>>
>> On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Laurel,
>>> This is a bit late response, but welcome to the list. I recently
>>> finished a
>>>
>>> busy semester.
>>> I am a continuing education student at a community college; I have my
>>> degree
>>>
>>> already but I'm studying more while I look for work. This writing
>>> certificate has definitely enhanced my skills and practice in writing.
>>> How do you study foreign languages? It can be  kind of visual with
>>> pictures;
>>>
>>> I know they used that in spanish when I took it in high school. Do
>>> you use braille?  I would think so otherwise you cannot see the spelling
> of words.
>>> I hope you enjoy the list.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Laurel
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:30 AM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] hello
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I just joined this list so I wanted to take a moment to introduce
>>> myself. My name is Laurel. I am a 20 year old college student in the
>>> Dallas, TX area. I study French and Russian. I have a working guide
>>> dog named Stockard. Stockard is a female yellow lab from Guide Dogs
>>> for the Blind and she will turn 4 in September. We have been a team
>>> for 2 years. I hope to get to know all of you well.
>>> Laurel and Stockard
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40ear
>>> thlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stockard%4
>>> 0gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40eart
>> hlink.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40g
>> mail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue May 15 01:02:10 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:02:10 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [Mdpobc] Blind Industries and Services of Maryland's
	Independence	2012!
In-Reply-To: <664916DD3FF58F45BF6F434E6676E7FB852298@BLINDEXCHANGE.BISM.com>
References: <664916DD3FF58F45BF6F434E6676E7FB852298@BLINDEXCHANGE.BISM.com>
Message-ID: <000101cd3236$5c457110$14d05330$@gmail.com>

 

 

From: mdpobc-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:mdpobc-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Dezman Jackson
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 11:45 AM
To: mdpobc at nfbnet.org
Cc: Dan Wenzel
Subject: [Mdpobc] Blind Industries and Services of Maryland's Independence
2012!

 

Hello all,

 

BISM Youth Services still has openings in our Independence 2012 summer
program for high school students.  This is a wonderful opportunity for your
student/child to learn valuable skills for independent living, gain work
experience and be mentored by blind role models.  For more information or to
sign up, please contact Dan Wenzel at 410-737-2642 dwenzel at bism.org or
Dezman Jackson at 410-737-2676 djackson at bism.org.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Dezman Jackson, NOMC, NCLB

 

Follow us: Facebook - Bism YouthPrograms 

Twitter @BISM_Youth

 

Help sponsor our youth program activities
<https://npo.networkforgood.org/Donate/Donate.aspx?npoSubscriptionId=1003647
> Donate 

 

Blind Industries and Services of Maryland

3345 Washington Blvd

Baltimore, MD 21227

Phone: 410-737-2676

Mobile: 251-689-4623

Fax: 410-737-2689

Toll Free: 888-322-4567

E-mail:  <mailto:djackson at bism.org> djackson at bism.org

 

"Our independence comes from within. A slave can have keen eyesight,
excellent mobility, and superb reading skills-and still be a slave. We are
achieving freedom and independence in the only way that really counts-in
rising self-respect, growing self-confidence, and the will and the ability
to make choices."

--Dr. Kenneth Jernigan

 

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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Tue May 15 01:52:01 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 20:52:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] hello
Message-ID: <4fb1b6ee.c383ec0a.7ea4.ffffeda0@mx.google.com>

Are you kidding? Math is a lot harder than French for me. All 
those equations make me shudder.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 14 May 2012 20:02:27 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello

Hi, Sophie.
Ashley is actually a veteran poster on this list.
She has been here, before alot of us.
She was here, before I joined, in 2011.
I agree with both you, and Chris!
I'm impressed!
I couldn't have done Spanish, auditoraly, either!
I can't even do math, that way!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/14/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
 I too am impressed! I can't imagine taking Spanish without 
Braille.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
 Behalf
 Of Sophie Trist
 Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 7:04 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello

 Welcome to the list! And I'm impressed w your skills. I take 
French and
 can't imagine doing it auditorily.

 Sent from my iPhone

 On May 14, 2012, at 12:49 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" 
<bookwormahb at earthlink.net
 wrote:

 Hi,
 well then you have a great memory. I could never study all 
auditorily. I
 studied my vocabulary with braille and writing it again and 
again when I
 was
 in spanish.

 -----Original Message----- From: Laurel
 Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:32 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello

 HI Ashley,
 I use braille, but I mainly work with a laptop and screen 
reader. I
 just memorize the spelling of the words and I use a Russian and 
Arabic
 language keyboards, so all I have to do is memorize which 
letters are
 where on the keyboard, and the order of letters in the words and 
it
 works fine. It's hard at first, but after awhile it's not too 
bad at
 all.
 Laurel and Stockard

 On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
 Laurel,
 This is a bit late response, but welcome to the list. I recently
 finished a

 busy semester.
 I am a continuing education student at a community college; I 
have my
 degree

 already but I'm studying more while I look for work. This 
writing
 certificate has definitely enhanced my skills and practice in 
writing.
 How do you study foreign languages? It can be  kind of visual 
with
 pictures;

 I know they used that in spanish when I took it in high school. 
Do
 you use braille?  I would think so otherwise you cannot see the 
spelling
 of words.
 I hope you enjoy the list.

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Laurel
 Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:30 AM
 To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 Subject: [nabs-l] hello

 Hi all,
 I just joined this list so I wanted to take a moment to 
introduce
 myself. My name is Laurel. I am a 20 year old college student in 
the
 Dallas, TX area. I study French and Russian. I have a working 
guide
 dog named Stockard. Stockard is a female yellow lab from Guide 
Dogs
 for the Blind and she will turn 4 in September. We have been a 
team
 for 2 years. I hope to get to know all of you well.
 Laurel and Stockard

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
0ear
 thlink.net



 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stocka
rd%4
 0gmail.com


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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
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0eart
 hlink.net

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
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 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
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 nabs-l:
 
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r%40g
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From dandrews at visi.com  Tue May 15 01:53:46 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 20:53:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iPhone/computer
In-Reply-To: <B23D3BCB1AF4422480AFA8B63C8C4843@HUMBERTOAVILA>
References: <CAL57mpFmePWq_psp52GM-vtFyhHsAGjaHO1hbBS1Um+WKXY4Fg@mail.gmail.com>
	<008501cd1cd4$364b9560$a2e2c020$@mchsi.com>
	<7B1E894D8D294C52A5DF89EA9610306A@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOujpDmDej1jqs6jYmQCh88zttBGQGtzi4FB9A3qA9ooyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<B23D3BCB1AF4422480AFA8B63C8C4843@HUMBERTOAVILA>
Message-ID: <auto-000061101073@mailfront3.g2host.com>

Actually, I believe the refresh-a-braille is about $1800.

Dave

At 04:46 PM 5/14/2012, you wrote:
>I think the Refreshabraille braille display from APH is the cheapest so far
>in my list. It is somewhere around $1500 ranges, but I'm not sure.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Joshua Lester
>Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 10:18 AM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
>
>The Focus 40 Blue, is $2695.00.
>Too expensive for me!
>I'd bet, that the 20 cell is half that!
>Blessings, Joshua
>
>On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > I've always dreamed of a braille display, all expensive. How much is the
> > focus and does it come in different cell lengths? Like can you get one
>with
> >
> > 20 celss vs 40?
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Loren
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 3:56 PM
> > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
> >
> > I think I would go with the focus.  It is less expensive than the
> > brailliant.
> >
> > Loren Wakefield
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> > Behalf
> > Of Amanda Cape
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 7:52 AM
> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
> >
> > Hi fellow listers,
> > I am looking into getting a braille display that could work with my iphone
> > and computer. Which one do you recommend? The brailliant or the focs 40
> > blue? What model of the brailliant if you recommend that one?
> > Amanda



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue May 15 02:04:35 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:04:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] hello
In-Reply-To: <4fb1b6ee.c383ec0a.7ea4.ffffeda0@mx.google.com>
References: <4fb1b6ee.c383ec0a.7ea4.ffffeda0@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOuTiH=y1=JZt2hs4TbgmpT3Mf0o3uAj5MyeB_rr0=9tTg@mail.gmail.com>

That's why I always requested Braille, even in college, but I had to
do it auditoraly, in college, because my DSB counselor wouldn't get
the books in Braille!
I had to depend on stuff, from what used to be called RFBND!
Not good, for Algebra!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/14/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> Are you kidding? Math is a lot harder than French for me. All
> those equations make me shudder.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 14 May 2012 20:02:27 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
>
> Hi, Sophie.
> Ashley is actually a veteran poster on this list.
> She has been here, before alot of us.
> She was here, before I joined, in 2011.
> I agree with both you, and Chris!
> I'm impressed!
> I couldn't have done Spanish, auditoraly, either!
> I can't even do math, that way!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/14/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I too am impressed! I can't imagine taking Spanish without
> Braille.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>  Behalf
>  Of Sophie Trist
>  Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 7:04 PM
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
>
>  Welcome to the list! And I'm impressed w your skills. I take
> French and
>  can't imagine doing it auditorily.
>
>  Sent from my iPhone
>
>  On May 14, 2012, at 12:49 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>  wrote:
>
>  Hi,
>  well then you have a great memory. I could never study all
> auditorily. I
>  studied my vocabulary with braille and writing it again and
> again when I
>  was
>  in spanish.
>
>  -----Original Message----- From: Laurel
>  Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:32 PM
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
>
>  HI Ashley,
>  I use braille, but I mainly work with a laptop and screen
> reader. I
>  just memorize the spelling of the words and I use a Russian and
> Arabic
>  language keyboards, so all I have to do is memorize which
> letters are
>  where on the keyboard, and the order of letters in the words and
> it
>  works fine. It's hard at first, but after awhile it's not too
> bad at
>  all.
>  Laurel and Stockard
>
>  On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>  Laurel,
>  This is a bit late response, but welcome to the list. I recently
>  finished a
>
>  busy semester.
>  I am a continuing education student at a community college; I
> have my
>  degree
>
>  already but I'm studying more while I look for work. This
> writing
>  certificate has definitely enhanced my skills and practice in
> writing.
>  How do you study foreign languages? It can be  kind of visual
> with
>  pictures;
>
>  I know they used that in spanish when I took it in high school.
> Do
>  you use braille?  I would think so otherwise you cannot see the
> spelling
>  of words.
>  I hope you enjoy the list.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Laurel
>  Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:30 AM
>  To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Subject: [nabs-l] hello
>
>  Hi all,
>  I just joined this list so I wanted to take a moment to
> introduce
>  myself. My name is Laurel. I am a 20 year old college student in
> the
>  Dallas, TX area. I study French and Russian. I have a working
> guide
>  dog named Stockard. Stockard is a female yellow lab from Guide
> Dogs
>  for the Blind and she will turn 4 in September. We have been a
> team
>  for 2 years. I hope to get to know all of you well.
>  Laurel and Stockard
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
> 0ear
>  thlink.net
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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> info for
>  nabs-l:
>
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> rd%4
>  0gmail.com
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
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>  hlink.net
>
>  _______________________________________________
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>  mail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________
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>
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>  om
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
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>
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> 0students.pccua.edu
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From coasterfreak88 at mac.com  Tue May 15 02:30:31 2012
From: coasterfreak88 at mac.com (John Moore)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:30:31 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention question.
Message-ID: <BB1ED15A-6262-4F0A-8851-9D79CD60C661@mac.com>

If there is one thing I need to go to at convention, what do you guys think it is? I'd love to come down at least once and meet all of you. I cannot make the banquet or any of the general sessions; I have another conference the following weekend I have to prepare for in a town a few miles away. I will probably not be able to come to the NABS meeting either. Is there any social event I can come to to meet up with those who are coming? Thanks.


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue May 15 02:33:37 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:33:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention question.
In-Reply-To: <BB1ED15A-6262-4F0A-8851-9D79CD60C661@mac.com>
References: <BB1ED15A-6262-4F0A-8851-9D79CD60C661@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtwwsawzSCCDx2+kA6yQy4OZSgrOK3PRmSFkdgdY6Jr+w@mail.gmail.com>

The barbecue, is Tuesday night, if I'm not mistaken.
Also, they have the rooky roundup, where all the first-timers go to.
I believe it's on the night of the first day of general sessions.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/14/12, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
> If there is one thing I need to go to at convention, what do you guys think
> it is? I'd love to come down at least once and meet all of you. I cannot
> make the banquet or any of the general sessions; I have another conference
> the following weekend I have to prepare for in a town a few miles away. I
> will probably not be able to come to the NABS meeting either. Is there any
> social event I can come to to meet up with those who are coming? Thanks.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From coasterfreak88 at mac.com  Tue May 15 02:35:44 2012
From: coasterfreak88 at mac.com (John Moore)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:35:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention question.
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOtwwsawzSCCDx2+kA6yQy4OZSgrOK3PRmSFkdgdY6Jr+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BB1ED15A-6262-4F0A-8851-9D79CD60C661@mac.com>
	<CAO83KOtwwsawzSCCDx2+kA6yQy4OZSgrOK3PRmSFkdgdY6Jr+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <35B45629-7C5D-4F07-81C2-20AE25D94058@mac.com>

I am not actually registerring for the convention. I am only going to one thing.


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue May 15 02:39:53 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:39:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention question.
In-Reply-To: <35B45629-7C5D-4F07-81C2-20AE25D94058@mac.com>
References: <BB1ED15A-6262-4F0A-8851-9D79CD60C661@mac.com>
	<CAO83KOtwwsawzSCCDx2+kA6yQy4OZSgrOK3PRmSFkdgdY6Jr+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<35B45629-7C5D-4F07-81C2-20AE25D94058@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOsvzUP7fHXRbNkfQpEF8doqcoGQteBYQQcqV8wMe8pY-w@mail.gmail.com>

I'm not sure, that you can do that.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/14/12, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
> I am not actually registerring for the convention. I am only going to one
> thing.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Tue May 15 03:17:17 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:17:17 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention question.
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOsvzUP7fHXRbNkfQpEF8doqcoGQteBYQQcqV8wMe8pY-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BB1ED15A-6262-4F0A-8851-9D79CD60C661@mac.com>
	<CAO83KOtwwsawzSCCDx2+kA6yQy4OZSgrOK3PRmSFkdgdY6Jr+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<35B45629-7C5D-4F07-81C2-20AE25D94058@mac.com>
	<CAO83KOsvzUP7fHXRbNkfQpEF8doqcoGQteBYQQcqV8wMe8pY-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJC7+i00Y=E2VGfQZm8+c0TkVb56mU23ANV77N5dkv7C5Q@mail.gmail.com>

NABS might be having a social on Saturday evening, which you can come
to without registering for the convention. (I am not involved with
convention planning this year, but we have had this social in the past
and I think it was alluded to in the last NABS notes). Stay posted for
the next NABS notes and I think it will be announced there.
Best,
Arielle

On 5/14/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> I'm not sure, that you can do that.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/14/12, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
>> I am not actually registerring for the convention. I am only going to one
>> thing.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From lizmohnke at hotmail.com  Tue May 15 05:18:21 2012
From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 01:18:21 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention question.
In-Reply-To: <BB1ED15A-6262-4F0A-8851-9D79CD60C661@mac.com>
References: <BB1ED15A-6262-4F0A-8851-9D79CD60C661@mac.com>
Message-ID: <COL118-DS12B0C820F444D97B177087BA1B0@phx.gbl>

Hello John,

If you do not wish to register for the entire convention, nor do you wish to 
attend the student seminar or the banquet, then what exactly is your reason 
for wanting to attend the convention? I am not asking this question to be 
snippy, or any other adjective you wish to insert, but rather as a means to 
figure out the best way to answer your question.

Others may disagree with me, but I personally do not see any reason why you 
would have to register for the entire convention to attend either one of 
these events. They are both two of my favorite events at the convention. I 
find hearing the accomplishments and achievements of the scholarship winners 
to be rather inspiring.

If you are simply looking to socialize with others, I think Arielle
 Provided a good idea by mentioning the NABS social. In addition, I would 
also suggest Karaoke night as well as our NABS Monte Carlo night. I do not 
believe you would need to register for the convention to attend these events 
either.

However, you could just pay the registration fee and simply attend the parts 
of the convention you can without worrying about whether or not you need to 
be registered for the convention to attend them.

Just a few of my thoughts. I hope you enjoy the convention if you are able 
to find some time to go.

Elizabeth


--------------------------------------------------
From: "John Moore" <coasterfreak88 at mac.com>
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 10:30 PM
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention question.

> If there is one thing I need to go to at convention, what do you guys 
> think it is? I'd love to come down at least once and meet all of you. I 
> cannot make the banquet or any of the general sessions; I have another 
> conference the following weekend I have to prepare for in a town a few 
> miles away. I will probably not be able to come to the NABS meeting 
> either. Is there any social event I can come to to meet up with those who 
> are coming? Thanks.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
> 


From coasterfreak88 at mac.com  Tue May 15 07:11:27 2012
From: coasterfreak88 at mac.com (John Moore)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 02:11:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention question.
In-Reply-To: <COL118-DS12B0C820F444D97B177087BA1B0@phx.gbl>
References: <BB1ED15A-6262-4F0A-8851-9D79CD60C661@mac.com>
	<COL118-DS12B0C820F444D97B177087BA1B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <3800F072-1366-4522-B40B-E6B4BCBE9569@mac.com>

Hey I'm not offended. I wanted to come hang out with people for a while. I actually cannot attend the banquet as I'm checking into another hotel that day a few towns away. I might wind up attending the student seminar but public transit doesn't run on Sundays and taxis are probably expensive to come from Fort Worth.


From iperrault at hotmail.com  Tue May 15 13:39:49 2012
From: iperrault at hotmail.com (Ian Perrault)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 09:39:49 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex
Message-ID: <SNT111-DS803FE0A4F8A6B24C2635BBF1B0@phx.gbl>

Hi
I’m thinking about purchasing a Braille Note Apex, but I already have a laptop, an M-Power, and an IPhone. Since it’s a big investment, what am I getting on the Apex, that I don’t already have on these other technologies? Any thoughts about which avenue to go?
Ian

From isaiah5719 at mchsi.com  Tue May 15 14:17:38 2012
From: isaiah5719 at mchsi.com (Loren)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 09:17:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex
In-Reply-To: <SNT111-DS803FE0A4F8A6B24C2635BBF1B0@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT111-DS803FE0A4F8A6B24C2635BBF1B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <014d01cd32a5$7bd6cdc0$73846940$@mchsi.com>

The apex is a step up from the m-power. It is lighter and a little faster.
Also, it will allow you a little more access to sites on the net.  It can do
pdf docs.  I'ved heard it can also do some word docs.  I haven't tried that
yet.  

But unless these things would aid you, and the m-power is in need of repair,
I don't know that I would make the jump at this point.  Afterall, windos ce
6.0 is not exactly new.  I have the apex, and I'm glad I do.  But, if you
are happy with what you have, stay with it.  Because as you said, it is a
huge investment; and, most of us, don't have money lying around just to have
the newest and greatest.  

Loren 



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ian Perrault
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:40 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex

Hi
I'm thinking about purchasing a Braille Note Apex, but I already have a
laptop, an M-Power, and an IPhone. Since it's a big investment, what am I
getting on the Apex, that I don't already have on these other technologies?
Any thoughts about which avenue to go?
Ian
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com



From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Tue May 15 14:45:09 2012
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 10:45:09 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention question.
In-Reply-To: <BB1ED15A-6262-4F0A-8851-9D79CD60C661@mac.com>
References: <BB1ED15A-6262-4F0A-8851-9D79CD60C661@mac.com>
Message-ID: <558A2CCA-430A-4825-885A-CC07699AD1A8@gmail.com>

Good walking shoes!

Sent from my iPhone

On May 14, 2012, at 10:30 PM, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:

> If there is one thing I need to go to at convention, what do you guys think it is? I'd love to come down at least once and meet all of you. I cannot make the banquet or any of the general sessions; I have another conference the following weekend I have to prepare for in a town a few miles away. I will probably not be able to come to the NABS meeting either. Is there any social event I can come to to meet up with those who are coming? Thanks.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com


From cape.amanda at gmail.com  Tue May 15 14:51:38 2012
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (Amanda)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 10:51:38 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook games
Message-ID: <DCA8BE6A-8DD5-43AD-847C-15D9A9721752@gmail.com>

Hi all,
I am I'n the hunt for fun accessible iPhone and Facebook games. Do you guys have any suggestions?

Amanda

From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue May 15 14:55:02 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 09:55:02 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook games
In-Reply-To: <DCA8BE6A-8DD5-43AD-847C-15D9A9721752@gmail.com>
References: <DCA8BE6A-8DD5-43AD-847C-15D9A9721752@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvakfoAqVkD52=vtRMrA6xr145uu727=Q7EnHzGZi4i-g@mail.gmail.com>

For phones, I wonder how accessible, Angry Birds, is.
I've heard alot about it, and might play it, when I get my IPhone.
Thanks for starting this topic!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/15/12, Amanda <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I am I'n the hunt for fun accessible iPhone and Facebook games. Do you guys
> have any suggestions?
>
> Amanda
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Tue May 15 16:27:43 2012
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 12:27:43 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook games
In-Reply-To: <DCA8BE6A-8DD5-43AD-847C-15D9A9721752@gmail.com>
References: <DCA8BE6A-8DD5-43AD-847C-15D9A9721752@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1E783EC4-4501-4EEE-948A-FEB05854EF36@gmail.com>

For iPhone, try:
ZaniTouch
Moxie
Papa Sangre 


Sent from my iPhone

On May 15, 2012, at 10:51 AM, Amanda <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> I am I'n the hunt for fun accessible iPhone and Facebook games. Do you guys have any suggestions?
> 
> Amanda
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com


From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Tue May 15 16:27:03 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 11:27:03 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Course Text
Message-ID: <1F639668389B4F08BACB17E7C6167047@Gloria>

Hello all,
I was wondering if anyone would be willing to help me find a accessible version of the book sited below? I would prefer a audio copy if possible, and I have checked learning ali and bookshare, but have had no luck. Please see sitation below.
Course Text Info:
Esses, V. M., & Vernon, R. A. (Eds.)  (2008). Explaining the Breakdown if Ethnic Relations: Why Neighbors Kill.  Blackwell Publishing. 

From lizmohnke at hotmail.com  Tue May 15 16:42:02 2012
From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 12:42:02 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention question.
In-Reply-To: <3800F072-1366-4522-B40B-E6B4BCBE9569@mac.com>
References: <BB1ED15A-6262-4F0A-8851-9D79CD60C661@mac.com><COL118-DS12B0C820F444D97B177087BA1B0@phx.gbl>
	<3800F072-1366-4522-B40B-E6B4BCBE9569@mac.com>
Message-ID: <COL118-DS12165D4DEADBB535A44ADBBA1B0@phx.gbl>

Hello John,

I am glad to see you were not offended by my question. I am not from the 
area, so I did not realize public transportation does not run on Sundays. If 
you are interested in attending the student seminar, perhaps you could 
contact a local chapter to see if they might be willing to help you out with 
transportation. I found the following contacts listed on the Texas affiliate 
website:

Fort worth Chapter
Elizabeth (Liz) Campbell, President
Phone: 817-738-0350
Email: fortworth at nfb-texas.org

Dallas Chapter
Sam Jackson, Vice President
Phone: 214-504-8116
Email: samraider1 at gmail.com

I am not sure what your schedule is like for the week, but perhaps one of 
these local contacts could provide some assistance as far as transportation 
is concerned so you could make the most out of the parts of convention you 
can attend.

Best of luck,
Elizabeth


--------------------------------------------------
From: "John Moore" <coasterfreak88 at mac.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 3:11 AM
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention question.

> Hey I'm not offended. I wanted to come hang out with people for a while. I 
> actually cannot attend the banquet as I'm checking into another hotel that 
> day a few towns away. I might wind up attending the student seminar but 
> public transit doesn't run on Sundays and taxis are probably expensive to 
> come from Fort Worth.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
> 


From dandrews at visi.com  Tue May 15 16:56:46 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 11:56:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention question.
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOsvzUP7fHXRbNkfQpEF8doqcoGQteBYQQcqV8wMe8pY-w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BB1ED15A-6262-4F0A-8851-9D79CD60C661@mac.com>
	<CAO83KOtwwsawzSCCDx2+kA6yQy4OZSgrOK3PRmSFkdgdY6Jr+w@mail.gmail.com>
	<35B45629-7C5D-4F07-81C2-20AE25D94058@mac.com>
	<CAO83KOsvzUP7fHXRbNkfQpEF8doqcoGQteBYQQcqV8wMe8pY-w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FB28ACE.7030702@visi.com>

You can -- but you can't get the convention rates on hotel rooms unless 
you register.

Dave



On 5/14/2012 9:39 PM, Joshua Lester wrote:
> I'm not sure, that you can do that.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/14/12, John Moore<coasterfreak88 at mac.com>  wrote:
>> I am not actually registerring for the convention. I am only going to one
>> thing.


From anjelinac26 at gmail.com  Tue May 15 17:09:21 2012
From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 13:09:21 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Course Text
In-Reply-To: <1F639668389B4F08BACB17E7C6167047@Gloria>
References: <1F639668389B4F08BACB17E7C6167047@Gloria>
Message-ID: <94E390552FB24A3F98B3CBA73B059749@AnjelinaPC>

Learning Ally and Bookshare are the only resources I know of, and as you 
said they are not on either site.
Could your school contact the publisher and request an accessible version? 
They may not be able to provide audio, but possibly a text copy.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Gloria G
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 12:27 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Course Text

Hello all,
I was wondering if anyone would be willing to help me find a accessible 
version of the book sited below? I would prefer a audio copy if possible, 
and I have checked learning ali and bookshare, but have had no luck. Please 
see sitation below.
Course Text Info:
Esses, V. M., & Vernon, R. A. (Eds.)  (2008). Explaining the Breakdown if 
Ethnic Relations: Why Neighbors Kill.  Blackwell Publishing.
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com


Anjelina 



From opensesame at me.com  Tue May 15 17:42:56 2012
From: opensesame at me.com (Bryan Jones)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 13:42:56 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Course Text
In-Reply-To: <1F639668389B4F08BACB17E7C6167047@Gloria>
References: <1F639668389B4F08BACB17E7C6167047@Gloria>
Message-ID: <AD97E389-72AF-4533-A77B-8A079FFA4B8A@me.com>

Hello,

When I'm searching for a textbook, I normally start my search from the Access Text Network homepage located at www.accesstext.org. From the main page, I click the Accessible Textbook FInder. This opens an accessible search page where you can enter part or all of a book title or ISBN and you can select which services to search. The services listed are the AccessText Network, ALternative Media Access Center, Bookshare, Coursesmart, LearningAlly, NLS, Project Gutenberg, and Vitalsource.

In the case of this title, the results show four separate entries for the book titled "Explaining the Breakdown of Ethnic Relations."
All 4 entries show "ATN" (AccessText Network) as the source but they don't show what format is available.
I'm not sure how it's handled at your school, but in my case I am required to funnel my request for ATN titles through my Office of Services for Students with Disabilities. I usualy just email them the book details and a link to the book on the accesstext page and ask them for the title in an accessible format.

I'd like to  give a shout out to Chris N. on this list, who mentioned the ATN service a while back. I've found it to be very useful.

HTH,
Bryan

On May 15, 2012, at 12:27 PM, Gloria G wrote:

> Hello all,
> I was wondering if anyone would be willing to help me find a accessible version of the book sited below? I would prefer a audio copy if possible, and I have checked learning ali and bookshare, but have had no luck. Please see sitation below.
> Course Text Info:
> Esses, V. M., & Vernon, R. A. (Eds.)  (2008). Explaining the Breakdown if Ethnic Relations: Why Neighbors Kill.  Blackwell Publishing. 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/opensesame%40me.com



From ignasicambra at gmail.com  Tue May 15 19:25:42 2012
From: ignasicambra at gmail.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ignasi_Cambra_D=EDaz?=)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 21:25:42 +0200
Subject: [nabs-l] A few videos...
Message-ID: <8DAECD9A-C133-4C93-9E12-28A2767CA49E@gmail.com>

Hello all,
Every once in a while I update my youtube channel with new performances from recitals etc. I added three videos today and figured I would let everyone know. Here are the links:
-Beethoven sonata Op. 32 no. 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sU7530rOn-Y
-Brahms Klavierstucke Op. 118: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWv0C57g3m8
-Mozart violin sonata K. 301 (this is from a recital with a violinist…): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJWQ1aW8fhA

Enjoy!

IC

From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Tue May 15 20:05:18 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 15:05:18 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex
Message-ID: <4fb2b72d.07bbec0a.1c39.1624@mx.google.com>

Loren, I do not think the braillenote apex can read PDF files. It 
interprets PDF files as pictures, and it cannot read the text 
contained with them. But, Ian, he's right about the increased 
speed and more web accessibility. And it can read some word docs.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Loren" <isaiah5719 at mchsi.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 15 May 2012 09:17:38 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex

The apex is a step up from the m-power. It is lighter and a 
little faster.
Also, it will allow you a little more access to sites on the net.  
It can do
pdf docs.  I'ved heard it can also do some word docs.  I haven't 
tried that
yet.

But unless these things would aid you, and the m-power is in need 
of repair,
I don't know that I would make the jump at this point.  Afterall, 
windos ce
6.0 is not exactly new.  I have the apex, and I'm glad I do.  
But, if you
are happy with what you have, stay with it.  Because as you said, 
it is a
huge investment; and, most of us, don't have money lying around 
just to have
the newest and greatest.

Loren



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ian Perrault
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:40 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex

Hi
I'm thinking about purchasing a Braille Note Apex, but I already 
have a
laptop, an M-Power, and an IPhone. Since it's a big investment, 
what am I
getting on the Apex, that I don't already have on these other 
technologies?
Any thoughts about which avenue to go?
Ian
_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40
mchsi.com


_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
r%40gmail.com


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Tue May 15 20:07:20 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 15:07:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook games
Message-ID: <4fb2b7a8.a9aaec0a.1b6c.14b5@mx.google.com>

On the iPhone, Hanging with Friends is also accessible. I have 
heard that Angry Birds is not.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 15 May 2012 12:27:43 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook games

For iPhone, try:
ZaniTouch
Moxie
Papa Sangre


Sent from my iPhone

On May 15, 2012, at 10:51 AM, Amanda <cape.amanda at gmail.com> 
wrote:

 Hi all,
 I am I'n the hunt for fun accessible iPhone and Facebook games. 
Do you guys have any suggestions?

 Amanda
 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2
%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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r%40gmail.com


From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Tue May 15 20:55:08 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 15:55:08 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Course Text
References: <1F639668389B4F08BACB17E7C6167047@Gloria>
	<AD97E389-72AF-4533-A77B-8A079FFA4B8A@me.com>
Message-ID: <4425124D3F934B7D992B89E956B9123B@Gloria>

Thank you for your help.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bryan Jones" <opensesame at me.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Course Text


> Hello,
>
> When I'm searching for a textbook, I normally start my search from the 
> Access Text Network homepage located at www.accesstext.org. From the main 
> page, I click the Accessible Textbook FInder. This opens an accessible 
> search page where you can enter part or all of a book title or ISBN and 
> you can select which services to search. The services listed are the 
> AccessText Network, ALternative Media Access Center, Bookshare, 
> Coursesmart, LearningAlly, NLS, Project Gutenberg, and Vitalsource.
>
> In the case of this title, the results show four separate entries for the 
> book titled "Explaining the Breakdown of Ethnic Relations."
> All 4 entries show "ATN" (AccessText Network) as the source but they don't 
> show what format is available.
> I'm not sure how it's handled at your school, but in my case I am required 
> to funnel my request for ATN titles through my Office of Services for 
> Students with Disabilities. I usualy just email them the book details and 
> a link to the book on the accesstext page and ask them for the title in an 
> accessible format.
>
> I'd like to  give a shout out to Chris N. on this list, who mentioned the 
> ATN service a while back. I've found it to be very useful.
>
> HTH,
> Bryan
>
> On May 15, 2012, at 12:27 PM, Gloria G wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>> I was wondering if anyone would be willing to help me find a accessible 
>> version of the book sited below? I would prefer a audio copy if possible, 
>> and I have checked learning ali and bookshare, but have had no luck. 
>> Please see sitation below.
>> Course Text Info:
>> Esses, V. M., & Vernon, R. A. (Eds.)  (2008). Explaining the Breakdown if 
>> Ethnic Relations: Why Neighbors Kill.  Blackwell Publishing.
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/opensesame%40me.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com 



From kea.anderson at gmail.com  Tue May 15 21:21:32 2012
From: kea.anderson at gmail.com (Karen Anderson)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 16:21:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
In-Reply-To: <000901cd3223$e4fa5e70$aeef1b50$@gmail.com>
References: <4F9814A3.6050203@gmail.com>	<646578647CFA476F8DAB20F2CE0C9131@OwnerPC>	<42ABB58C-FF72-475B-9540-C3813B30CA84@gmail.com>	<C50F489E11C74A378F4D6C4C18C7DE50@userPC>
	<CAEwUdjPcN08u22VPjq3zuNC29mJVvZRwaM6-EqJBYHkjq+ohZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<000901cd3223$e4fa5e70$aeef1b50$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4fb2c8de.864c320a.6df7.0956@mx.google.com>

Hi all,

As one of the editors of the Student Slate, I think these ideas are great!
Now, of course, we have to find people who can write the articles. :) If
anyone has any suggestions, please email me at kea.anderson at gmail.com. Or,
of course, at slate at nabslink.org 

Thanks for the suggestions, and keep them coming!

Karen
-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 5:50 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition

You're asking me? <smile! The email is nabs.membership at gmail.com.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Darian Smith
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition

Chris:

 If it's a good  topic for a future membership call, how can people get a
hold of  the membership committee?  :)
  Best,
  Darian

On 4/25/12, Rania Ismail CMT <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree.
> Rania,
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Jorge Paez
> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 8:05 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
>
> Certainly.
> I think this would be very helpful.
>
>
> On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
>
>> good idea
>>
>> -----Original Message----- From: Antonio Guimaraes
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 11:13 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
>>
>> I don't know if this is something NABS would want to undertake, but 
>> here is an idea that came from writing my last message on scholarships.
>>
>> A comprehensive Student Slate article dealing with this and other 
>> student issues beyond blindness would be welcome.
>>
>> Perhaps a Student Slate, student finances edition to cover student 
>> loans, financial aid, fraud, saving, salary negotiation, earning 
>> expectations? There's a table of contents. NABS just needs to find 
>> the financial bright minds of the organization to write the stories. 
>> I'm not one of them. Prefer the arts myself.
>>
>> Yes, I did just sidestep writing a piece, but would love to read such 
>> an issue.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Antonio Guimaraes
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>>
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
> net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorge.paez1994%40g
> mail.c
> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gm
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> m
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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> com
>


--
Darian Smith

"To dream what is possible and to put oneself in service of that dream is
the formula for a life well lived."

- Dr. Peter Benson

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om


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From adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com  Tue May 15 21:21:20 2012
From: adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com (Andi)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 17:21:20 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography
In-Reply-To: <61CFCA47564E49DABB728E7CC5EDF533@Gloria>
References: <61CFCA47564E49DABB728E7CC5EDF533@Gloria>
Message-ID: <4fb2c8d3.aa22320a.4927.ffff961b@mx.google.com>

I took several geography classes and it does deal a lot with cultures but
you will most likely have to study maps.  I used a world atlas that I
borrowed from my former T.C.  It was tactile with the maps drawn out in
raised lines and different textures.  Their were symbols on it that
represented different things, and the keys were all labeled in brail.  It
was a big book and so I left it in one place.  I studied it and memorized
most all of it in order to take tests and participate in classroom
activities.  I will try to find the name of that atlas and who makes it.  I
will try to find out where you can get one.

Andi

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Gloria G
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 1:52 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography

Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone has taken or are taking a world geography class?
If so how do you handle maps? Can you tell me about other challenges you
have had or are having with the class? Thanks
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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.com



From sjhhirst at gmail.com  Tue May 15 22:06:21 2012
From: sjhhirst at gmail.com (Stephanie DeLuca)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 17:06:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
In-Reply-To: <4fb2c8de.864c320a.6df7.0956@mx.google.com>
References: <4F9814A3.6050203@gmail.com>	<646578647CFA476F8DAB20F2CE0C9131@OwnerPC>	<42ABB58C-FF72-475B-9540-C3813B30CA84@gmail.com>	<C50F489E11C74A378F4D6C4C18C7DE50@userPC>
	<CAEwUdjPcN08u22VPjq3zuNC29mJVvZRwaM6-EqJBYHkjq+ohZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<000901cd3223$e4fa5e70$aeef1b50$@gmail.com>
	<4fb2c8de.864c320a.6df7.0956@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <B402EE4A-79C1-40C7-BC65-30CE97ED51B2@gmail.com>

Do you have to be a finance expert?  Or could people just write about their experience in college in terms of their finances?  Like…writing about what saving/budgeting strategies worked for them, etc.

On May 15, 2012, at 4:21 PM, Karen Anderson wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> As one of the editors of the Student Slate, I think these ideas are great!
> Now, of course, we have to find people who can write the articles. :) If
> anyone has any suggestions, please email me at kea.anderson at gmail.com. Or,
> of course, at slate at nabslink.org 
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions, and keep them coming!
> 
> Karen
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 5:50 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
> 
> You're asking me? <smile! The email is nabs.membership at gmail.com.
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Darian Smith
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:47 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
> 
> Chris:
> 
> If it's a good  topic for a future membership call, how can people get a
> hold of  the membership committee?  :)
>  Best,
>  Darian
> 
> On 4/25/12, Rania Ismail CMT <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I agree.
>> Rania,
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Jorge Paez
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 8:05 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
>> 
>> Certainly.
>> I think this would be very helpful.
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
>> 
>>> good idea
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Antonio Guimaraes
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 11:13 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
>>> 
>>> I don't know if this is something NABS would want to undertake, but 
>>> here is an idea that came from writing my last message on scholarships.
>>> 
>>> A comprehensive Student Slate article dealing with this and other 
>>> student issues beyond blindness would be welcome.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps a Student Slate, student finances edition to cover student 
>>> loans, financial aid, fraud, saving, salary negotiation, earning 
>>> expectations? There's a table of contents. NABS just needs to find 
>>> the financial bright minds of the organization to write the stories. 
>>> I'm not one of them. Prefer the arts myself.
>>> 
>>> Yes, I did just sidestep writing a piece, but would love to read such 
>>> an issue.
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> 
>>> Antonio Guimaraes
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>> 
>> 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
>> net
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorge.paez1994%40g
>> mail.c
>> om
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gm
>> ail.co
>> m
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.
>> com
>> 
> 
> 
> --
> Darian Smith
> 
> "To dream what is possible and to put oneself in service of that dream is
> the formula for a life well lived."
> 
> - Dr. Peter Benson
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
> om
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kea.anderson%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From pgradioman at hotmail.com  Tue May 15 23:45:56 2012
From: pgradioman at hotmail.com (Preston Gaylor)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 18:45:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex
In-Reply-To: <4fb2b72d.07bbec0a.1c39.1624@mx.google.com>
References: <4fb2b72d.07bbec0a.1c39.1624@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BLU158-W47CA31521A573CFA374412CB1B0@phx.gbl>


Another ad to the last post, The apex can not read DOCX files. You must save any work for a Flash Drive or an SD card with the old 97-2003 word to save it on that device. Also, I love my apex a lot. I never had any problems with it accept the space bar sometimes doesn't work for me and the strap from it borke a few months ago. Luckily, my vision teacher found another strap for it. I hope more of this info for the apex helps! Good luck with the repair! Preston Gaylor
 

> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 15:05:18 -0500
> From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex
> 
> Loren, I do not think the braillenote apex can read PDF files. It 
> interprets PDF files as pictures, and it cannot read the text 
> contained with them. But, Ian, he's right about the increased 
> speed and more web accessibility. And it can read some word docs.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Loren" <isaiah5719 at mchsi.com
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 15 May 2012 09:17:38 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex
> 
> The apex is a step up from the m-power. It is lighter and a 
> little faster.
> Also, it will allow you a little more access to sites on the net. 
> It can do
> pdf docs. I'ved heard it can also do some word docs. I haven't 
> tried that
> yet.
> 
> But unless these things would aid you, and the m-power is in need 
> of repair,
> I don't know that I would make the jump at this point. Afterall, 
> windos ce
> 6.0 is not exactly new. I have the apex, and I'm glad I do. 
> But, if you
> are happy with what you have, stay with it. Because as you said, 
> it is a
> huge investment; and, most of us, don't have money lying around 
> just to have
> the newest and greatest.
> 
> Loren
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Ian Perrault
> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:40 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students
> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex
> 
> Hi
> I'm thinking about purchasing a Braille Note Apex, but I already 
> have a
> laptop, an M-Power, and an IPhone. Since it's a big investment, 
> what am I
> getting on the Apex, that I don't already have on these other 
> technologies?
> Any thoughts about which avenue to go?
> Ian
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40
> mchsi.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com
 		 	   		  

From missheather at comcast.net  Wed May 16 01:28:57 2012
From: missheather at comcast.net (Heather Field)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 20:28:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography
In-Reply-To: <4fb2c8d3.aa22320a.4927.ffff961b@mx.google.com>
References: <61CFCA47564E49DABB728E7CC5EDF533@Gloria>
	<4fb2c8d3.aa22320a.4927.ffff961b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <E562E0C43D4D4AE294DCD08C0F9406B5@HeatherAcer>

The Princeton Braillists. They specialise in maps and atlases.
Google them. You'll find a phone number. I don't believe they have a 
website.
Regards,
Heather

-----Original Message----- 
From: Andi
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:21 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] World Geography

I took several geography classes and it does deal a lot with cultures but
you will most likely have to study maps.  I used a world atlas that I
borrowed from my former T.C.  It was tactile with the maps drawn out in
raised lines and different textures.  Their were symbols on it that
represented different things, and the keys were all labeled in brail.  It
was a big book and so I left it in one place.  I studied it and memorized
most all of it in order to take tests and participate in classroom
activities.  I will try to find the name of that atlas and who makes it.  I
will try to find out where you can get one.

Andi

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Gloria G
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 1:52 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography

Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone has taken or are taking a world geography class?
If so how do you handle maps? Can you tell me about other challenges you
have had or are having with the class? Thanks
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail
.com


_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed May 16 01:47:35 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 21:47:35 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography
In-Reply-To: <E562E0C43D4D4AE294DCD08C0F9406B5@HeatherAcer>
References: <61CFCA47564E49DABB728E7CC5EDF533@Gloria><4fb2c8d3.aa22320a.4927.ffff961b@mx.google.com>
	<E562E0C43D4D4AE294DCD08C0F9406B5@HeatherAcer>
Message-ID: <32C5DBEBC9084F7D8FC6C02331262556@OwnerPC>

Heather,
Haven't heard of them; is this a transcribing group? Is it a nonprofit?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Heather Field
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 9:28 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] World Geography

The Princeton Braillists. They specialise in maps and atlases.
Google them. You'll find a phone number. I don't believe they have a
website.
Regards,
Heather

-----Original Message----- 
From: Andi
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:21 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] World Geography

I took several geography classes and it does deal a lot with cultures but
you will most likely have to study maps.  I used a world atlas that I
borrowed from my former T.C.  It was tactile with the maps drawn out in
raised lines and different textures.  Their were symbols on it that
represented different things, and the keys were all labeled in brail.  It
was a big book and so I left it in one place.  I studied it and memorized
most all of it in order to take tests and participate in classroom
activities.  I will try to find the name of that atlas and who makes it.  I
will try to find out where you can get one.

Andi

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Gloria G
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 1:52 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography

Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone has taken or are taking a world geography class?
If so how do you handle maps? Can you tell me about other challenges you
have had or are having with the class? Thanks
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail
.com


_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net


_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Wed May 16 02:12:59 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 21:12:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography
References: <61CFCA47564E49DABB728E7CC5EDF533@Gloria>
	<4fb2c8d3.aa22320a.4927.ffff961b@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <D5DDDD2CE4DD4DF5A9893D20DBA40920@Gloria>

Thank you very much for  your help.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andi" <adrianne.dempsey at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] World Geography


>I took several geography classes and it does deal a lot with cultures but
> you will most likely have to study maps.  I used a world atlas that I
> borrowed from my former T.C.  It was tactile with the maps drawn out in
> raised lines and different textures.  Their were symbols on it that
> represented different things, and the keys were all labeled in brail.  It
> was a big book and so I left it in one place.  I studied it and memorized
> most all of it in order to take tests and participate in classroom
> activities.  I will try to find the name of that atlas and who makes it. 
> I
> will try to find out where you can get one.
>
> Andi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Gloria G
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 1:52 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography
>
> Hi all,
> I was wondering if anyone has taken or are taking a world geography class?
> If so how do you handle maps? Can you tell me about other challenges you
> have had or are having with the class? Thanks
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com 



From kea.anderson at gmail.com  Wed May 16 03:57:42 2012
From: kea.anderson at gmail.com (Karen Anderson)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 22:57:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
In-Reply-To: <B402EE4A-79C1-40C7-BC65-30CE97ED51B2@gmail.com>
References: <4F9814A3.6050203@gmail.com>	<646578647CFA476F8DAB20F2CE0C9131@OwnerPC>	<42ABB58C-FF72-475B-9540-C3813B30CA84@gmail.com>	<C50F489E11C74A378F4D6C4C18C7DE50@userPC>
	<CAEwUdjPcN08u22VPjq3zuNC29mJVvZRwaM6-EqJBYHkjq+ohZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<000901cd3223$e4fa5e70$aeef1b50$@gmail.com>
	<4fb2c8de.864c320a.6df7.0956@mx.google.com>
	<B402EE4A-79C1-40C7-BC65-30CE97ED51B2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4fb325bb.8457320a.50f5.262d@mx.google.com>

I'm not sure what others have had in mind in terms of these financial
topics, but as an editor of the Slate I think having an article like that
could be kind of interesting. I'd love to see something like that written,
and we'll see what we can do.

If you want to talk to me off list about it, feel free to email me any time!

Karen


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Stephanie DeLuca
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 5:06 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition

Do you have to be a finance expert?  Or could people just write about their
experience in college in terms of their finances?  Like.writing about what
saving/budgeting strategies worked for them, etc.

On May 15, 2012, at 4:21 PM, Karen Anderson wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> As one of the editors of the Student Slate, I think these ideas are great!
> Now, of course, we have to find people who can write the articles. :) If
> anyone has any suggestions, please email me at kea.anderson at gmail.com. Or,
> of course, at slate at nabslink.org 
> 
> Thanks for the suggestions, and keep them coming!
> 
> Karen
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
> Of Chris Nusbaum
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 5:50 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
> 
> You're asking me? <smile! The email is nabs.membership at gmail.com.
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
> Of Darian Smith
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:47 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
> 
> Chris:
> 
> If it's a good  topic for a future membership call, how can people get a
> hold of  the membership committee?  :)
>  Best,
>  Darian
> 
> On 4/25/12, Rania Ismail CMT <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I agree.
>> Rania,
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Jorge Paez
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 8:05 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
>> 
>> Certainly.
>> I think this would be very helpful.
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
>> 
>>> good idea
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Antonio Guimaraes
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 11:13 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
>>> 
>>> I don't know if this is something NABS would want to undertake, but 
>>> here is an idea that came from writing my last message on scholarships.
>>> 
>>> A comprehensive Student Slate article dealing with this and other 
>>> student issues beyond blindness would be welcome.
>>> 
>>> Perhaps a Student Slate, student finances edition to cover student 
>>> loans, financial aid, fraud, saving, salary negotiation, earning 
>>> expectations? There's a table of contents. NABS just needs to find 
>>> the financial bright minds of the organization to write the stories. 
>>> I'm not one of them. Prefer the arts myself.
>>> 
>>> Yes, I did just sidestep writing a piece, but would love to read such 
>>> an issue.
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> 
>>> Antonio Guimaraes
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>> 
>> 
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
>> net
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>> 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorge.paez1994%40g
>> mail.c
>> om
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gm
>> ail.co
>> m
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.
>> com
>> 
> 
> 
> --
> Darian Smith
> 
> "To dream what is possible and to put oneself in service of that dream is
> the formula for a life well lived."
> 
> - Dr. Peter Benson
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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> om
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> 
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From isaiah5719 at mchsi.com  Wed May 16 20:29:15 2012
From: isaiah5719 at mchsi.com (Loren)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 15:29:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
In-Reply-To: <B5E709F7A09E4AEA992B111D2DABDC8A@OwnerPC>
References: <1337021928.52863.YahooMailClassic@web162005.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
	<B5E709F7A09E4AEA992B111D2DABDC8A@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <003001cd33a2$901adad0$b0509070$@mchsi.com>

I'm not trying to put down homemakers.  But I know of a case where that was the success listed to successfully close the case.  

Loren 



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 3:10 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support

Anmol
Good points. they need closures for funding. Even though as I said if it’s a dead end job lets say a customer service job at home depo or a fast food joint, the case will have to be reopened.  Ideally, counselors should work with you to get a job commensurate with your skills, interests and abilities. But as you said, sadly this is not often the case. Yeah, fast food jobs and then case closure, doesn't sound related to a vr goal to me.

Ashley

-----Original Message-----
From: Anmol Bhatia
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 2:58 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support

Ashley,
I agree that getting an internship or frankly even a enter level job is important. It is a step that will help you land a full time job, and give you an opportunity to network. So your VR Counselor had know right to tell you to "go get a real job". As a future VR Counselor, I would encourage you to continue doing what you are doing, but remember that VR Counselor are under alot of pressure to close so many cases regardless of the type of employment they received. Many times in order to meet their number of cases closed so that the Rehab Agency can show to law makers that they have successfully closed cases, VR Counselors have to close the case regardless of the type of job the consumer has received. Many times they have to close cases even when the consumer has only found a fast food job, nothing related to their Vocational Goals just so they can show their boss and on up to the law makers that the agency has closed so many cases in order to receive funding for the next year.

Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
Hellen Keller


--- On Mon, 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> From: Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Monday, May 14, 2012, 1:40 PM
> Anmol,
> Sorry but I really feel that some vr counselors don't care much. If 
> they don't call or write back timely, if they will not update your 
> equipment putting you at a even greater disadvantage, it seems to me 
> they don't care.
>
> I did network and worked on my own to attain all internships including 
> the pending one. I even had to install my personal copy of jaws at 
> national crime prevention council, since being non government they 
> could not procure jaws for me.
>
> When people, whether blind or sighted, cannot find work, they often 
> get more internships to get more experience. Many college grads do 
> this in this economy.  And to have that effort put down was real 
> insulting to me.  And what in blazes does my counselor think is a 
> "real job".
> Okay, as far as I'm concerned a "real job" is one which you go to 
> work, contribute, and get paid for it.  A real job to me has potential 
> for advancement. I'm concerned that when they just say jobs, it could 
> be anything just to close your case.
>
> I'll add then you cannot go anywhere in a job and say get laid off or 
> lose the job then, and then know what you do?
> You open a vr case again! If you found a good quality job in the first 
> place that seemed secure and where you exercised transferable skills, 
> uyou will not need to reopen your case.
>
> Yeah, I try and find internships and jobs. Not enough blind people do 
> it, that is for sure.
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message----- From: Anmol Bhatia
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 2:18 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
>
> Josh,
> As a person who will be a VR Counselor within the next year or two, I 
> do not really appreciate people saying that VR Counselors do not care 
> about their consumers. I have had a whole new appreciation for the 
> field of Rehabilitation Counseling and for VR Counselors since I have 
> enrolled in the MS in Rehabilitation Counseling program at the 
> University of Arkansas.
> I agree that what Ashley's counselor is doing is not good.
> Networking and getting internship experience is important since thats 
> how you get a job, and as a counselor I will encourage that. However, 
> to say we do not care and the only thing we are interested in is to 
> close a case is frankly not true for most counselors.
> The government spends alot of money on rehabilitation, but the 
> unemployment number is still not going down. So tax payers want 
> answers and our elected officials who have to answer to tax payers put 
> pressure on directors of the rehabilitation agencies to show results 
> and the directors put pressure on people under them and it goes all 
> the way down to the bottom person who is the VR Counselor. The 
> counselors are told to close so many cases with a 6 which means that 
> the case has been successful and the Consumer is employed or else lose 
> their job. However, policy makers do not consider factors that have 
> hender the ability of a blind person to get a job such as a poor 
> economy, the historical high number of blind people who are 
> unemployed, and so on.
> All they care about is how many blind people are employed so that they 
> can justify spending the money they are spending on rehabilitation.
> The process of finding a job is a two way process and it takes both 
> the VR Counselor and the Consumer to work together. The Counselor 
> needs the Consumer to find employment so that they can successfully 
> close their case and keep their job, but whats more important is that 
> the consumer needs to do everything they can to find themself a job so 
> that they can get off SSDI and live a happy and successful life.
> To be quite frank, and it will afend some people on this list, but 
> many blind people are not doing their part to find themself a job. To 
> many blind people expect the VR Counselor to do everything. To be 
> quite honest, it has got to a point to where people consider rehab to 
> be a right instead of a privledge. In many countries they do not have 
> rehab and blind people are still managing to live and some have pretty 
> successful careers. There is know law that says that you have to take 
> rehabilitation so if you do not like your counselor or do not like the 
> process of rehabilitation, then simply request for your case to be 
> closed. The blind person is totally capable to find their own job, and 
> they should do as much for themself as they can. As a future VR 
> Counselor I will do whatever I can to help my Consumers, this why I 
> entered this field but I can not help consumers who do not want to 
> help themselves. So before making clames that VR Counselors do not 
> care about their consumers, think about the job we have to do and ask 
> yourself if you are doing everything to help yourself.
>
> Anmol
> I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. 
> Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, 
> like a breeze among flowers.
> Hellen Keller
>
>
> --- On Sun, 5/13/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job support
> > To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> > Date: Sunday, May 13, 2012, 4:59 PM
> > That's my problem with most of the VR counselors, that I've dealt 
> > with!
> > They don't really care about us!
> > They just want to close our cases, because we're just
> an
> > unwanted
> > burden, to them!
> > I'm supporting you, and am hoping for the best.
> > BTW, we complain all the time about VR, but what are
> we
> > doing to
> > improve the system?
> > How can we improve it?
> > Well, after I get my degree, there's a job opening up,
> in my
> > state, to
> > work for VR!
> > If more of us, (clients,) started trying to get jobs, working for 
> > VR, we could be the very ones, to improve the systems, and
> make
> > them
> > better support our people!
> > As a VR counselor, I'd make sure that my clients were
> able
> > to get the
> > jobs, that they want, if possible!
> > Blessings, Joshua
> >
> > On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> > wrote:
> > > Hi Josh,
> > > No, this is an employee of the agency; its  a
> job
> > placement specialist, not
> > >
> > > a center.
> > > My question is what do these people do? From the
> one
> > blind client I spoke
> > > with, he said the specialist didn't do much of
> anything
> > but told him to look
> > >
> > > online for job ads.
> > > I'll revise my sentence  from my first
> email.
> > >
> > > After  I just told her I looked and few
> entry
> > level jobs there and to put
> > > down an internship where my foot will be in the
> door in
> > the government  that
> > >
> > > may lead somewhere is insulting.
> > > Not clear here what insulted me.
> > >
> > > After I just told her I looked and found few
> entry
> > level jobs I qualified
> > > for, I told her I  had an internship coming
> where
> > I could get my foot in the
> > >
> > > door in the government and this internship may
> lead to
> > more permanent work,
> > >
> > > her comment about finding a real job insulted me.
> > >
> > > I'll add its like all she cares about getting
> clients
> > jobs, not good
> > > careers, to heck with what they want to do, just
> get
> > them jobs and close
> > > their cases.
> > > Not a good attitude.  Also, many college
> grads are
> > doing just what I am--
> > > getting internships to hopefully lead to full
> time
> > work. There was an
> > > article in the New york times about this.
> > Inexperienced young people cannot
> > >
> > > find work.  What world do vr counselors live
> in?
> > > Well not the real world where people are
> struggling and
> > worried about lay
> > > off and people are losing homes or working three
> part
> > time jobs to pay for
> > > the essentials of life.
> > > I'm trying to say its tough for anyone, and being blind makes it a 
> > > little harder. A vr counselor
> should
> > support you by giving
> > >
> > > you the skills to look for work and help you
> network,
> > not throwing you to
> > > some so called specialist who probably just finds
> any
> > job and if you take it
> > >
> > > they can close your case. No, I'll be bold and
> stand up
> > to them and go for
> > > the job that fits my skills.
> > >
> > > Ashley
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Joshua Lester
> > > Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2012 5:22 PM
> > > To: National Association of Blind Students
> mailing
> > list
> > > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] vr counselors and job
> support
> > >
> > > LWSB was a job placement center.
> > > You'd go, and they'd train you for the IRS
> programs.
> > > If you work with VR, you'll know, they'll try to
> send
> > you to LWSB, or
> > > a center like it!
> > > Blessings, Joshua
> > >
> > > On 5/13/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net>
> > wrote:
> > >> Hi all,
> > >>
> > >> Well, I couldn’t think of a good subject
> line for
> > this complex issue.
> > >>
> > >> I’ll say that I graduated in 2009 with a
> general
> > BA degree in liberal
> > >> studies; kind of where you make your won
> program to
> > complete a degree; I
> > >> picked  my concentrations of social
> sciences
> > and communication. Then
> > >> after
> > >> some training at our state center, I pursued
> a
> > writing certificate at
> > >> Nova,
> > >> northern Virginia community college.
> I’m
> > finishing that next semester.
> > >> I
> > >> wanted to add more to my resume and take
> classes
> > specific to writing, so
> > >> this was a good investment for me.  My
> career
> > goal is broad; in this
> > >> economy
> > >> you cannot be too picky, whether you are blind
> or
> > not.
> > >> I desire to work in something to help people.
> I’m
> > thinking outreach,
> > >> communication, customer service, or
> > development.  I want to work with a
> > >> team
> > >> of people in an office.
> > >>
> > >> That is some background.  Now as we all
> know
> > getting a job is tough with
> > >> the
> > >> down economy and most jobs are gotten via
> > networking anyway.
> > >> I networked via a disability mentoring day
> for
> > customs and border patrol;
> > >>
> > >> I
> > >> was refered for a unpaid internship in section
> 508
> > compliance after
> > >> following up with the disability program
> manager. I
> > intend to get this
> > >> internship once going through their rigorrous
> > background check.
> > >>
> > >> Well, I’m frustrated with my vr counselor.
> > I tell her I’m looking for
> > >> work
> > >> and explain barriers like lack of experience;
> > visual tasks in entry level
> > >> jobs that include filing, sorting mail, data
> entry
> > etc, etc.
> > >> She schedules a meeting with me to talk over
> my
> > case and I wonder if she
> > >> is
> > >> forcing a service on me for which it will do
> no
> > good.
> > >>
> > >> I then tell her about my internship to end
> the
> > call. “well, you are good
> > >> at
> > >> finding internships, but lets look for a real
> > job.” How insulting! After
> > >> I
> > >> just told her I looked and few entry level
> jobs
> > there and to put down an
> > >> internship where my foot will be in the door
> in the
> > government  that may
> > >> lead somewhere is insulting.
> > >>
> > >> Have anyone of you worked with or  known
> > people who worked with job
> > >> placement specialists?  This counselor
> wants
> > to refer me
> > >> to one. I am skeptical he can help me unless
> he
> > actually takes me out to
> > >> go
> > >> in person to employers, its called cold calls.
> I
> > asked her what he’d do
> > >> for
> > >> me and she was real vague.
> > >> “He’ll send you job leads.” she said.
> > She said something about job
> > >> announcements.
> > >>
> > >> I’ll get more info in the meeting. But I
> just am
> > not sure I should work
> > >> with
> > >> him. I mean it sounds on the surface like a
> waste
> > of time.  I’d rather
> > >> have
> > >> vr work with me on things like a good cover
> letter,
> > interview skills,
> > >> professional dos and don’ts, stuff like
> that. So,
> > I’m wondering if any of
> > >> you had this service and how it went.
> > >>
> > >> Ashley
> > >>
> _______________________________________________
> > >> nabs-l mailing list
> > >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or
> get
> > your account info for
> > >> nabs-l:
> > >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%4
> > >> 0students.pccua.edu
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
> your
> > account info for
> > > nabs-l:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40
> > > earthlink.net
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
> your
> > account info for
> > > nabs-l:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40
> > > students.pccua.edu
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
> account
> > info for nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anmolpbhatia%40y
> > ahoo.com
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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> hlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

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From cassonw at gmail.com  Wed May 16 22:08:02 2012
From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 16:08:02 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] GRE prep
Message-ID: <CAEWJ-9=LfBfOrw5pKCSMa5NJ5ZNqSLDVBBcrDVnTnq4oBFR6gg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
I am planning on retaking the GRE sometime in the fall.  I was
wondering what accessible materials people have used in order to fully
prepare for these exams.
Thanks,
Bill

-- 
Bill Casson
University of New Mexico
M.S. Computer Science
Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11
B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci.
(505) 695-1374
cassonw at gmail.com


From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com  Thu May 17 00:29:45 2012
From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 20:29:45 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 67, Issue 21
In-Reply-To: <mailman.23.1337101228.15407.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.23.1337101228.15407.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <CAPnwOUP3YiTOy3Hz=ODxys=XfNoTVcyET9JVbLdpgFyt_6HUoA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi John,

As Arielle mentioned (thank you Arielle!) there will be a NABS social
on Saturday June 30. It will start at 9:00pm. The room is yet to be
determined, but it will be in the Affiliate Action suite, wherever
that ends up being. All information will be provided in convention
agenda, as well as being posted to this list and distributed in our
monthly update.

Hope to see you there,

Sean

On 5/15/12, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: hello (Sophie Trist)
>    2. Re: Braille displays for iPhone/computer (David Andrews)
>    3. Re: hello (Joshua Lester)
>    4. Convention question. (John Moore)
>    5. Re: Convention question. (Joshua Lester)
>    6. Re: Convention question. (John Moore)
>    7. Re: Convention question. (Joshua Lester)
>    8. Re: Convention question. (Arielle Silverman)
>    9. Re: Convention question. (Elizabeth)
>   10. Re: Convention question. (John Moore)
>   11. Braille Note Apex (Ian Perrault)
>   12. Re: Braille Note Apex (Loren)
>   13. Re: Convention question. (Jewel)
>   14. Facebook games (Amanda)
>   15. Re: Facebook games (Joshua Lester)
>   16. Re: Facebook games (Jewel)
>   17. Course Text (Gloria G)
>   18. Re: Convention question. (Elizabeth)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 20:52:01 -0500
> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
> 	list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
> Message-ID: <4fb1b6ee.c383ec0a.7ea4.ffffeda0 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Are you kidding? Math is a lot harder than French for me. All
> those equations make me shudder.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 14 May 2012 20:02:27 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
>
> Hi, Sophie.
> Ashley is actually a veteran poster on this list.
> She has been here, before alot of us.
> She was here, before I joined, in 2011.
> I agree with both you, and Chris!
> I'm impressed!
> I couldn't have done Spanish, auditoraly, either!
> I can't even do math, that way!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/14/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I too am impressed! I can't imagine taking Spanish without
> Braille.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>  Behalf
>  Of Sophie Trist
>  Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 7:04 PM
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
>
>  Welcome to the list! And I'm impressed w your skills. I take
> French and
>  can't imagine doing it auditorily.
>
>  Sent from my iPhone
>
>  On May 14, 2012, at 12:49 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>  wrote:
>
>  Hi,
>  well then you have a great memory. I could never study all
> auditorily. I
>  studied my vocabulary with braille and writing it again and
> again when I
>  was
>  in spanish.
>
>  -----Original Message----- From: Laurel
>  Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:32 PM
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
>
>  HI Ashley,
>  I use braille, but I mainly work with a laptop and screen
> reader. I
>  just memorize the spelling of the words and I use a Russian and
> Arabic
>  language keyboards, so all I have to do is memorize which
> letters are
>  where on the keyboard, and the order of letters in the words and
> it
>  works fine. It's hard at first, but after awhile it's not too
> bad at
>  all.
>  Laurel and Stockard
>
>  On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>  Laurel,
>  This is a bit late response, but welcome to the list. I recently
>  finished a
>
>  busy semester.
>  I am a continuing education student at a community college; I
> have my
>  degree
>
>  already but I'm studying more while I look for work. This
> writing
>  certificate has definitely enhanced my skills and practice in
> writing.
>  How do you study foreign languages? It can be  kind of visual
> with
>  pictures;
>
>  I know they used that in spanish when I took it in high school.
> Do
>  you use braille?  I would think so otherwise you cannot see the
> spelling
>  of words.
>  I hope you enjoy the list.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Laurel
>  Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:30 AM
>  To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Subject: [nabs-l] hello
>
>  Hi all,
>  I just joined this list so I wanted to take a moment to
> introduce
>  myself. My name is Laurel. I am a 20 year old college student in
> the
>  Dallas, TX area. I study French and Russian. I have a working
> guide
>  dog named Stockard. Stockard is a female yellow lab from Guide
> Dogs
>  for the Blind and she will turn 4 in September. We have been a
> team
>  for 2 years. I hope to get to know all of you well.
>  Laurel and Stockard
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>  nabs-l:
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> 0ear
>  thlink.net
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
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>
>
>  _______________________________________________
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>
>  _______________________________________________
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>  _______________________________________________
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>
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> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 20:53:46 -0500
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iPhone/computer
> Message-ID: <auto-000061101073 at mailfront3.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Actually, I believe the refresh-a-braille is about $1800.
>
> Dave
>
> At 04:46 PM 5/14/2012, you wrote:
>>I think the Refreshabraille braille display from APH is the cheapest so
>> far
>>in my list. It is somewhere around $1500 ranges, but I'm not sure.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>>Of Joshua Lester
>>Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 10:18 AM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
>>
>>The Focus 40 Blue, is $2695.00.
>>Too expensive for me!
>>I'd bet, that the 20 cell is half that!
>>Blessings, Joshua
>>
>>On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> > I've always dreamed of a braille display, all expensive. How much is
>> > the
>> > focus and does it come in different cell lengths? Like can you get one
>>with
>> >
>> > 20 celss vs 40?
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Loren
>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 3:56 PM
>> > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
>> >
>> > I think I would go with the focus.  It is less expensive than the
>> > brailliant.
>> >
>> > Loren Wakefield
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> > Behalf
>> > Of Amanda Cape
>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 7:52 AM
>> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
>> >
>> > Hi fellow listers,
>> > I am looking into getting a braille display that could work with my
>> > iphone
>> > and computer. Which one do you recommend? The brailliant or the focs 40
>> > blue? What model of the brailliant if you recommend that one?
>> > Amanda
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:04:35 -0500
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAO83KOuTiH=y1=JZt2hs4TbgmpT3Mf0o3uAj5MyeB_rr0=9tTg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> That's why I always requested Braille, even in college, but I had to
> do it auditoraly, in college, because my DSB counselor wouldn't get
> the books in Braille!
> I had to depend on stuff, from what used to be called RFBND!
> Not good, for Algebra!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/14/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Are you kidding? Math is a lot harder than French for me. All
>> those equations make me shudder.
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Mon, 14 May 2012 20:02:27 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
>>
>> Hi, Sophie.
>> Ashley is actually a veteran poster on this list.
>> She has been here, before alot of us.
>> She was here, before I joined, in 2011.
>> I agree with both you, and Chris!
>> I'm impressed!
>> I couldn't have done Spanish, auditoraly, either!
>> I can't even do math, that way!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/14/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  I too am impressed! I can't imagine taking Spanish without
>> Braille.
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>  Behalf
>>  Of Sophie Trist
>>  Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 7:04 PM
>>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
>>
>>  Welcome to the list! And I'm impressed w your skills. I take
>> French and
>>  can't imagine doing it auditorily.
>>
>>  Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>  On May 14, 2012, at 12:49 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>  wrote:
>>
>>  Hi,
>>  well then you have a great memory. I could never study all
>> auditorily. I
>>  studied my vocabulary with braille and writing it again and
>> again when I
>>  was
>>  in spanish.
>>
>>  -----Original Message----- From: Laurel
>>  Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:32 PM
>>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
>>
>>  HI Ashley,
>>  I use braille, but I mainly work with a laptop and screen
>> reader. I
>>  just memorize the spelling of the words and I use a Russian and
>> Arabic
>>  language keyboards, so all I have to do is memorize which
>> letters are
>>  where on the keyboard, and the order of letters in the words and
>> it
>>  works fine. It's hard at first, but after awhile it's not too
>> bad at
>>  all.
>>  Laurel and Stockard
>>
>>  On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>  Laurel,
>>  This is a bit late response, but welcome to the list. I recently
>>  finished a
>>
>>  busy semester.
>>  I am a continuing education student at a community college; I
>> have my
>>  degree
>>
>>  already but I'm studying more while I look for work. This
>> writing
>>  certificate has definitely enhanced my skills and practice in
>> writing.
>>  How do you study foreign languages? It can be  kind of visual
>> with
>>  pictures;
>>
>>  I know they used that in spanish when I took it in high school.
>> Do
>>  you use braille?  I would think so otherwise you cannot see the
>> spelling
>>  of words.
>>  I hope you enjoy the list.
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: Laurel
>>  Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:30 AM
>>  To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  Subject: [nabs-l] hello
>>
>>  Hi all,
>>  I just joined this list so I wanted to take a moment to
>> introduce
>>  myself. My name is Laurel. I am a 20 year old college student in
>> the
>>  Dallas, TX area. I study French and Russian. I have a working
>> guide
>>  dog named Stockard. Stockard is a female yellow lab from Guide
>> Dogs
>>  for the Blind and she will turn 4 in September. We have been a
>> team
>>  for 2 years. I hope to get to know all of you well.
>>  Laurel and Stockard
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>  nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
>> 0ear
>>  thlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>  nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stocka
>> rd%4
>>  0gmail.com
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>  nabs-l:
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>> 0eart
>>  hlink.net
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
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>> r%40g
>>  mail.com
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
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>> info for
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>> m%40gmail.c
>>  om
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
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>> info for
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:30:31 -0500
> From: John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Convention question.
> Message-ID: <BB1ED15A-6262-4F0A-8851-9D79CD60C661 at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>
> If there is one thing I need to go to at convention, what do you guys think
> it is? I'd love to come down at least once and meet all of you. I cannot
> make the banquet or any of the general sessions; I have another conference
> the following weekend I have to prepare for in a town a few miles away. I
> will probably not be able to come to the NABS meeting either. Is there any
> social event I can come to to meet up with those who are coming? Thanks.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:33:37 -0500
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention question.
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAO83KOtwwsawzSCCDx2+kA6yQy4OZSgrOK3PRmSFkdgdY6Jr+w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> The barbecue, is Tuesday night, if I'm not mistaken.
> Also, they have the rooky roundup, where all the first-timers go to.
> I believe it's on the night of the first day of general sessions.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/14/12, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
>> If there is one thing I need to go to at convention, what do you guys
>> think
>> it is? I'd love to come down at least once and meet all of you. I cannot
>> make the banquet or any of the general sessions; I have another
>> conference
>> the following weekend I have to prepare for in a town a few miles away. I
>> will probably not be able to come to the NABS meeting either. Is there
>> any
>> social event I can come to to meet up with those who are coming? Thanks.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:35:44 -0500
> From: John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention question.
> Message-ID: <35B45629-7C5D-4F07-81C2-20AE25D94058 at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>
> I am not actually registerring for the convention. I am only going to one
> thing.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:39:53 -0500
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention question.
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAO83KOsvzUP7fHXRbNkfQpEF8doqcoGQteBYQQcqV8wMe8pY-w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I'm not sure, that you can do that.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/14/12, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
>> I am not actually registerring for the convention. I am only going to one
>> thing.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:17:17 -0600
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention question.
> Message-ID:
> 	<CALAYQJC7+i00Y=E2VGfQZm8+c0TkVb56mU23ANV77N5dkv7C5Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> NABS might be having a social on Saturday evening, which you can come
> to without registering for the convention. (I am not involved with
> convention planning this year, but we have had this social in the past
> and I think it was alluded to in the last NABS notes). Stay posted for
> the next NABS notes and I think it will be announced there.
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 5/14/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> I'm not sure, that you can do that.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/14/12, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
>>> I am not actually registerring for the convention. I am only going to
>>> one
>>> thing.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 01:18:21 -0400
> From: "Elizabeth" <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention question.
> Message-ID: <COL118-DS12B0C820F444D97B177087BA1B0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> Hello John,
>
> If you do not wish to register for the entire convention, nor do you wish to
>
> attend the student seminar or the banquet, then what exactly is your reason
>
> for wanting to attend the convention? I am not asking this question to be
> snippy, or any other adjective you wish to insert, but rather as a means to
>
> figure out the best way to answer your question.
>
> Others may disagree with me, but I personally do not see any reason why you
>
> would have to register for the entire convention to attend either one of
> these events. They are both two of my favorite events at the convention. I
> find hearing the accomplishments and achievements of the scholarship winners
>
> to be rather inspiring.
>
> If you are simply looking to socialize with others, I think Arielle
>  Provided a good idea by mentioning the NABS social. In addition, I would
> also suggest Karaoke night as well as our NABS Monte Carlo night. I do not
> believe you would need to register for the convention to attend these events
>
> either.
>
> However, you could just pay the registration fee and simply attend the parts
>
> of the convention you can without worrying about whether or not you need to
>
> be registered for the convention to attend them.
>
> Just a few of my thoughts. I hope you enjoy the convention if you are able
> to find some time to go.
>
> Elizabeth
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "John Moore" <coasterfreak88 at mac.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 10:30 PM
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Convention question.
>
>> If there is one thing I need to go to at convention, what do you guys
>> think it is? I'd love to come down at least once and meet all of you. I
>> cannot make the banquet or any of the general sessions; I have another
>> conference the following weekend I have to prepare for in a town a few
>> miles away. I will probably not be able to come to the NABS meeting
>> either. Is there any social event I can come to to meet up with those who
>>
>> are coming? Thanks.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 02:11:27 -0500
> From: John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention question.
> Message-ID: <3800F072-1366-4522-B40B-E6B4BCBE9569 at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>
> Hey I'm not offended. I wanted to come hang out with people for a while. I
> actually cannot attend the banquet as I'm checking into another hotel that
> day a few towns away. I might wind up attending the student seminar but
> public transit doesn't run on Sundays and taxis are probably expensive to
> come from Fort Worth.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 09:39:49 -0400
> From: "Ian Perrault" <iperrault at hotmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex
> Message-ID: <SNT111-DS803FE0A4F8A6B24C2635BBF1B0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="Windows-1252"
>
> Hi
> I?m thinking about purchasing a Braille Note Apex, but I already have a
> laptop, an M-Power, and an IPhone. Since it?s a big investment, what am I
> getting on the Apex, that I don?t already have on these other technologies?
> Any thoughts about which avenue to go?
> Ian
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 09:17:38 -0500
> From: "Loren" <isaiah5719 at mchsi.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex
> Message-ID: <014d01cd32a5$7bd6cdc0$73846940$@mchsi.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"
>
> The apex is a step up from the m-power. It is lighter and a little faster.
> Also, it will allow you a little more access to sites on the net.  It can
> do
> pdf docs.  I'ved heard it can also do some word docs.  I haven't tried that
> yet.
>
> But unless these things would aid you, and the m-power is in need of
> repair,
> I don't know that I would make the jump at this point.  Afterall, windos ce
> 6.0 is not exactly new.  I have the apex, and I'm glad I do.  But, if you
> are happy with what you have, stay with it.  Because as you said, it is a
> huge investment; and, most of us, don't have money lying around just to
> have
> the newest and greatest.
>
> Loren
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Ian Perrault
> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:40 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students
> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex
>
> Hi
> I'm thinking about purchasing a Braille Note Apex, but I already have a
> laptop, an M-Power, and an IPhone. Since it's a big investment, what am I
> getting on the Apex, that I don't already have on these other technologies?
> Any thoughts about which avenue to go?
> Ian
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 10:45:09 -0400
> From: Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention question.
> Message-ID: <558A2CCA-430A-4825-885A-CC07699AD1A8 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii
>
> Good walking shoes!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 14, 2012, at 10:30 PM, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
>
>> If there is one thing I need to go to at convention, what do you guys
>> think it is? I'd love to come down at least once and meet all of you. I
>> cannot make the banquet or any of the general sessions; I have another
>> conference the following weekend I have to prepare for in a town a few
>> miles away. I will probably not be able to come to the NABS meeting
>> either. Is there any social event I can come to to meet up with those who
>> are coming? Thanks.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 10:51:38 -0400
> From: Amanda <cape.amanda at gmail.com>
> To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook games
> Message-ID: <DCA8BE6A-8DD5-43AD-847C-15D9A9721752 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi all,
> I am I'n the hunt for fun accessible iPhone and Facebook games. Do you guys
> have any suggestions?
>
> Amanda
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 09:55:02 -0500
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook games
> Message-ID:
> 	<CAO83KOvakfoAqVkD52=vtRMrA6xr145uu727=Q7EnHzGZi4i-g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> For phones, I wonder how accessible, Angry Birds, is.
> I've heard alot about it, and might play it, when I get my IPhone.
> Thanks for starting this topic!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/15/12, Amanda <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I am I'n the hunt for fun accessible iPhone and Facebook games. Do you
>> guys
>> have any suggestions?
>>
>> Amanda
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 12:27:43 -0400
> From: Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook games
> Message-ID: <1E783EC4-4501-4EEE-948A-FEB05854EF36 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset=us-ascii
>
> For iPhone, try:
> ZaniTouch
> Moxie
> Papa Sangre
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 15, 2012, at 10:51 AM, Amanda <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> I am I'n the hunt for fun accessible iPhone and Facebook games. Do you
>> guys have any suggestions?
>>
>> Amanda
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 11:27:03 -0500
> From: "Gloria G" <gloria.graves at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Course Text
> Message-ID: <1F639668389B4F08BACB17E7C6167047 at Gloria>
> Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hello all,
> I was wondering if anyone would be willing to help me find a accessible
> version of the book sited below? I would prefer a audio copy if possible,
> and I have checked learning ali and bookshare, but have had no luck. Please
> see sitation below.
> Course Text Info:
> Esses, V. M., & Vernon, R. A. (Eds.)  (2008). Explaining the Breakdown if
> Ethnic Relations: Why Neighbors Kill.  Blackwell Publishing.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 12:42:02 -0400
> From: "Elizabeth" <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> 	<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention question.
> Message-ID: <COL118-DS12165D4DEADBB535A44ADBBA1B0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> 	reply-type=original
>
> Hello John,
>
> I am glad to see you were not offended by my question. I am not from the
> area, so I did not realize public transportation does not run on Sundays. If
>
> you are interested in attending the student seminar, perhaps you could
> contact a local chapter to see if they might be willing to help you out with
>
> transportation. I found the following contacts listed on the Texas affiliate
>
> website:
>
> Fort worth Chapter
> Elizabeth (Liz) Campbell, President
> Phone: 817-738-0350
> Email: fortworth at nfb-texas.org
>
> Dallas Chapter
> Sam Jackson, Vice President
> Phone: 214-504-8116
> Email: samraider1 at gmail.com
>
> I am not sure what your schedule is like for the week, but perhaps one of
> these local contacts could provide some assistance as far as transportation
>
> is concerned so you could make the most out of the parts of convention you
> can attend.
>
> Best of luck,
> Elizabeth
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "John Moore" <coasterfreak88 at mac.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 3:11 AM
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention question.
>
>> Hey I'm not offended. I wanted to come hang out with people for a while. I
>>
>> actually cannot attend the banquet as I'm checking into another hotel that
>>
>> day a few towns away. I might wind up attending the student seminar but
>> public transit doesn't run on Sundays and taxis are probably expensive to
>>
>> come from Fort Worth.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>
>
> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 67, Issue 21
> **************************************
>


From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Thu May 17 06:43:19 2012
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 23:43:19 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: NVDA screen reader News: NVDA 2012.2beta2 Released
Message-ID: <BBC5562619A44CC78494AF5A022AAEF2@HUMBERTOAVILA>

See below: 

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-announce-bounces at lists.nvaccess.org
[mailto:nvda-announce-bounces at lists.nvaccess.org] On Behalf Of NVDA
announcement list
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 11:18 PM
To: nvda-announce at lists.nvaccess.org
Subject: NVDA screen reader News: NVDA 2012.2beta2 Released

NV Access is pleased to announce the release of NVDA 2012.2beta2. It is 
intended for those who are interested in testing and evaluating the 
upcoming NVDA 2012.2 release, but is not recommended for production use. 
Testers are encouraged to report any bugs found while using this beta.

For a list of changes from beta1 to beta2 and links to download, please 
visit
http://www.nvda-project.org/blog/NVDA2012.2beta2Released

NVDA is developed and supported by NV Access.
http://www.nvaccess.org

NV Access needs your support to continue development of NVDA. Please 
consider becoming a monthly subscriber on our donation page at
http://www.nvaccess.org/wiki/Donate
Single donations are of course always welcome also.

Thanks for your support

_______________________________________________
Nvda-announce mailing list
Nvda-announce at lists.nvaccess.org
http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-announce



From anthony at olivero.us  Thu May 17 07:51:59 2012
From: anthony at olivero.us (Tony Olivero)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 02:51:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Please Support The National Federation of the Blind of
 Nebraska Today, May 17, 2012
Message-ID: <CALQ-rrOpGO2_sYPPQipKsttt2hWTYpW3uc_yV8NwBXOVgsrgkA@mail.gmail.com>

Friends:

Today, May 17, 2012 is not just an ordinary Thursday. Today, is in
fact, Give to Lincoln Day. ON this most magical of Thursdays,
nonprofit organizations that serve constituants in the city of
Lincoln, and surrounding Lancaster county, are raising money to
support their programs and services.

I think most of you know how important being a member of the NFB is to
me. This organization has had a profound impact on my life,  by
connecting me with positive blind mentors, and allowing me to give
back in a number of ways. I am asking you to consider a donation to
the NFB of Nebraska today. Why today? Well, as I said before, this is
a Magical Thursday. Fore, you see, your donation will be matched by
the Lincoln Community Foundation. That's right, whatever generous
donation you are able to give will actually be instantly* multiplied
and will have double the impact in the community.

The NFBN does a number of good things throughout the state that I
think you  will find worth while. We work with parents to help their
children learn Braille (without which, they will join the nearly
ninety percent of blind adults who are illiterate); we conduct
seminars for students and parents introducing them to the alternative
techniques of blindness; we provide scholarships to blind college
students; and are involved in many more activities that promote a
positive blindness philosophy.

Please take a moment and visit
http://j.mp/g2lnfbn
 and make a
donation. Please also share this with anyone else in your circle of
contacts you think may be willing to support us.

Thank you!

Sincerely,
Tony Olivero

*Instantly, given the nature of data processing, internet
communications, and phillanthropic check-writing processes may range
from 2 seconds to a non negative, as yet undetermined, number of
weeks.


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu May 17 20:01:28 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 16:01:28 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: Bookshare Summer Contest, Win Cool Prizes
Message-ID: <4fb55924.43bfe00a.1396.ffffa1e8@mx.google.com>



From: "Bookshare" <Bookshare at mail.vresp.com
To: dots4school at gmail.com
 sent: Thu, 17 May 2012 15:07:49 +0000
Subject: Bookshare Summer Contest, Win Cool Prizes

-
http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Bookshare/101ba63b52/d6bec9ffc9/c4e0b28cd
7

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Get ready for the summer's most fun reading contest for Bookshare
Members only! Starting June 4, "Get on the Bookshare Express" and
take a trip to anywhere in the world, or beyond.  Just read a 
book
about another place, planet or make believe world and submit a
contest entry to win cool prizes!  Learn more and get on the
Bookshare Express! -
http://cts.vresp.com/c/?Bookshare/101ba63b52/d6bec9ffc9/bd0825563
d

About The Contest
The Bookshare Express is Bookshare's 4th consecutive summer 
reading
contest.  To be eligible to participate, individuals must qualify 
for
Bookshare with a certified print disability and have an 
Individual
Bookshare membership.  The contest is open to both US and
International Individual Bookshare members.  Need an Individual
Membership? Sign up today! -
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f/utm_content=dots4school%40gmail.com&utm_source=VerticalResponse
&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=Text%20Version%20-%20Link%203&utm_camp
aign=Bookshare%20Summer%20Contest%2C%20Win%20Cool%20Prizes

Want to share with friends? Forward the contest! -
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&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=Text%20Version%20-%20Link%204&utm_camp
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From rloew at ETS.ORG  Thu May 17 20:05:53 2012
From: rloew at ETS.ORG (Loew, Ruth)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 13:05:53 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] GRE Prep
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9.1337274035.4552.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.9.1337274035.4552.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <216E26F886846C4291CFEB500A05DAF80D112B5549@VA3DIAXVS9E1.RED001.local>

Hi, Bill. I'm with the ETS Office of Disability Policy, and I'm a lurker on this list.

Information about accessible practice materials for the GRE General Test can be found at http://www.ets.org/gre/revised_general/prepare/disabilities.

(Judging by the error messages I received, I think my earlier attempts at posting this message bounced; if they indeed came through, then I apologize for the multiple posts.)

You can request hard-copy alternate format practice materials, including the practice test for the self-voicing GRE General Test, by contacting ETS Disability Services: stassd at ets.org, or 866-387-8602.

Please feel free to contact me if you have further questions.  Good luck!

Ruth C. Loew, Ph.D.
Assistant Director
Office of Disability Policy, ETS
phone: 609-683-2984
fax: 609-683-2220

-----Original Message-----


Message: 2
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 16:08:02 -0600
From: Bill <cassonw at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] GRE prep
Message-ID:
        <CAEWJ-9=LfBfOrw5pKCSMa5NJ5ZNqSLDVBBcrDVnTnq4oBFR6gg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hello,
I am planning on retaking the GRE sometime in the fall.  I was
wondering what accessible materials people have used in order to fully
prepare for these exams.
Thanks,
Bill

--
Bill Casson
University of New Mexico
M.S. Computer Science
Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11
B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci.
(505) 695-1374
cassonw at gmail.com



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 20:29:45 -0400
From: Sean Whalen <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com>
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 67, Issue 21
Message-ID:
        <CAPnwOUP3YiTOy3Hz=ODxys=XfNoTVcyET9JVbLdpgFyt_6HUoA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi John,

As Arielle mentioned (thank you Arielle!) there will be a NABS social
on Saturday June 30. It will start at 9:00pm. The room is yet to be
determined, but it will be in the Affiliate Action suite, wherever
that ends up being. All information will be provided in convention
agenda, as well as being posted to this list and distributed in our
monthly update.

Hope to see you there,

Sean

On 5/15/12, nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org <nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Send nabs-l mailing list submissions to
>       nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: hello (Sophie Trist)
>    2. Re: Braille displays for iPhone/computer (David Andrews)
>    3. Re: hello (Joshua Lester)
>    4. Convention question. (John Moore)
>    5. Re: Convention question. (Joshua Lester)
>    6. Re: Convention question. (John Moore)
>    7. Re: Convention question. (Joshua Lester)
>    8. Re: Convention question. (Arielle Silverman)
>    9. Re: Convention question. (Elizabeth)
>   10. Re: Convention question. (John Moore)
>   11. Braille Note Apex (Ian Perrault)
>   12. Re: Braille Note Apex (Loren)
>   13. Re: Convention question. (Jewel)
>   14. Facebook games (Amanda)
>   15. Re: Facebook games (Joshua Lester)
>   16. Re: Facebook games (Jewel)
>   17. Course Text (Gloria G)
>   18. Re: Convention question. (Elizabeth)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 20:52:01 -0500
> From: Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing
>       list<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
> Message-ID: <4fb1b6ee.c383ec0a.7ea4.ffffeda0 at mx.google.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Are you kidding? Math is a lot harder than French for me. All
> those equations make me shudder.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 14 May 2012 20:02:27 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
>
> Hi, Sophie.
> Ashley is actually a veteran poster on this list.
> She has been here, before alot of us.
> She was here, before I joined, in 2011.
> I agree with both you, and Chris!
> I'm impressed!
> I couldn't have done Spanish, auditoraly, either!
> I can't even do math, that way!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/14/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>  I too am impressed! I can't imagine taking Spanish without
> Braille.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>  Behalf
>  Of Sophie Trist
>  Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 7:04 PM
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
>
>  Welcome to the list! And I'm impressed w your skills. I take
> French and
>  can't imagine doing it auditorily.
>
>  Sent from my iPhone
>
>  On May 14, 2012, at 12:49 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>  wrote:
>
>  Hi,
>  well then you have a great memory. I could never study all
> auditorily. I
>  studied my vocabulary with braille and writing it again and
> again when I
>  was
>  in spanish.
>
>  -----Original Message----- From: Laurel
>  Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:32 PM
>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
>
>  HI Ashley,
>  I use braille, but I mainly work with a laptop and screen
> reader. I
>  just memorize the spelling of the words and I use a Russian and
> Arabic
>  language keyboards, so all I have to do is memorize which
> letters are
>  where on the keyboard, and the order of letters in the words and
> it
>  works fine. It's hard at first, but after awhile it's not too
> bad at
>  all.
>  Laurel and Stockard
>
>  On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>  Laurel,
>  This is a bit late response, but welcome to the list. I recently
>  finished a
>
>  busy semester.
>  I am a continuing education student at a community college; I
> have my
>  degree
>
>  already but I'm studying more while I look for work. This
> writing
>  certificate has definitely enhanced my skills and practice in
> writing.
>  How do you study foreign languages? It can be  kind of visual
> with
>  pictures;
>
>  I know they used that in spanish when I took it in high school.
> Do
>  you use braille?  I would think so otherwise you cannot see the
> spelling
>  of words.
>  I hope you enjoy the list.
>
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: Laurel
>  Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:30 AM
>  To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  Subject: [nabs-l] hello
>
>  Hi all,
>  I just joined this list so I wanted to take a moment to
> introduce
>  myself. My name is Laurel. I am a 20 year old college student in
> the
>  Dallas, TX area. I study French and Russian. I have a working
> guide
>  dog named Stockard. Stockard is a female yellow lab from Guide
> Dogs
>  for the Blind and she will turn 4 in September. We have been a
> team
>  for 2 years. I hope to get to know all of you well.
>  Laurel and Stockard
>
>  _______________________________________________
>  nabs-l mailing list
>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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> info for
>  nabs-l:
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> 0ear
>  thlink.net
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
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>
>
>  _______________________________________________
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>
>  _______________________________________________
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>  _______________________________________________
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>
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>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 20:53:46 -0500
> From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iPhone/computer
> Message-ID: <auto-000061101073 at mailfront3.g2host.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>
> Actually, I believe the refresh-a-braille is about $1800.
>
> Dave
>
> At 04:46 PM 5/14/2012, you wrote:
>>I think the Refreshabraille braille display from APH is the cheapest so
>> far
>>in my list. It is somewhere around $1500 ranges, but I'm not sure.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>>Of Joshua Lester
>>Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 10:18 AM
>>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
>>
>>The Focus 40 Blue, is $2695.00.
>>Too expensive for me!
>>I'd bet, that the 20 cell is half that!
>>Blessings, Joshua
>>
>>On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> > I've always dreamed of a braille display, all expensive. How much is
>> > the
>> > focus and does it come in different cell lengths? Like can you get one
>>with
>> >
>> > 20 celss vs 40?
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Loren
>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 3:56 PM
>> > To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> > Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
>> >
>> > I think I would go with the focus.  It is less expensive than the
>> > brailliant.
>> >
>> > Loren Wakefield
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> > Behalf
>> > Of Amanda Cape
>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2012 7:52 AM
>> > To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Braille displays for iphone/computer
>> >
>> > Hi fellow listers,
>> > I am looking into getting a braille display that could work with my
>> > iphone
>> > and computer. Which one do you recommend? The brailliant or the focs 40
>> > blue? What model of the brailliant if you recommend that one?
>> > Amanda
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:04:35 -0500
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
> Message-ID:
>       <CAO83KOuTiH=y1=JZt2hs4TbgmpT3Mf0o3uAj5MyeB_rr0=9tTg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> That's why I always requested Braille, even in college, but I had to
> do it auditoraly, in college, because my DSB counselor wouldn't get
> the books in Braille!
> I had to depend on stuff, from what used to be called RFBND!
> Not good, for Algebra!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/14/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Are you kidding? Math is a lot harder than French for me. All
>> those equations make me shudder.
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Mon, 14 May 2012 20:02:27 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
>>
>> Hi, Sophie.
>> Ashley is actually a veteran poster on this list.
>> She has been here, before alot of us.
>> She was here, before I joined, in 2011.
>> I agree with both you, and Chris!
>> I'm impressed!
>> I couldn't have done Spanish, auditoraly, either!
>> I can't even do math, that way!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/14/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>  I too am impressed! I can't imagine taking Spanish without
>> Braille.
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org
>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>  Behalf
>>  Of Sophie Trist
>>  Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 7:04 PM
>>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
>>
>>  Welcome to the list! And I'm impressed w your skills. I take
>> French and
>>  can't imagine doing it auditorily.
>>
>>  Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>  On May 14, 2012, at 12:49 PM, "Ashley Bramlett"
>> <bookwormahb at earthlink.net
>>  wrote:
>>
>>  Hi,
>>  well then you have a great memory. I could never study all
>> auditorily. I
>>  studied my vocabulary with braille and writing it again and
>> again when I
>>  was
>>  in spanish.
>>
>>  -----Original Message----- From: Laurel
>>  Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:32 PM
>>  To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>  Subject: Re: [nabs-l] hello
>>
>>  HI Ashley,
>>  I use braille, but I mainly work with a laptop and screen
>> reader. I
>>  just memorize the spelling of the words and I use a Russian and
>> Arabic
>>  language keyboards, so all I have to do is memorize which
>> letters are
>>  where on the keyboard, and the order of letters in the words and
>> it
>>  works fine. It's hard at first, but after awhile it's not too
>> bad at
>>  all.
>>  Laurel and Stockard
>>
>>  On 5/14/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>  Laurel,
>>  This is a bit late response, but welcome to the list. I recently
>>  finished a
>>
>>  busy semester.
>>  I am a continuing education student at a community college; I
>> have my
>>  degree
>>
>>  already but I'm studying more while I look for work. This
>> writing
>>  certificate has definitely enhanced my skills and practice in
>> writing.
>>  How do you study foreign languages? It can be  kind of visual
>> with
>>  pictures;
>>
>>  I know they used that in spanish when I took it in high school.
>> Do
>>  you use braille?  I would think so otherwise you cannot see the
>> spelling
>>  of words.
>>  I hope you enjoy the list.
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: Laurel
>>  Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2012 10:30 AM
>>  To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  Subject: [nabs-l] hello
>>
>>  Hi all,
>>  I just joined this list so I wanted to take a moment to
>> introduce
>>  myself. My name is Laurel. I am a 20 year old college student in
>> the
>>  Dallas, TX area. I study French and Russian. I have a working
>> guide
>>  dog named Stockard. Stockard is a female yellow lab from Guide
>> Dogs
>>  for the Blind and she will turn 4 in September. We have been a
>> team
>>  for 2 years. I hope to get to know all of you well.
>>  Laurel and Stockard
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>  nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%4
>> 0ear
>>  thlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>  To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>> info for
>>  nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/laurel.stocka
>> rd%4
>>  0gmail.com
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
>>  nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>  http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
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>> info for
>>  nabs-l:
>>
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>> 0eart
>>  hlink.net
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
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>> info for
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>>
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>> r%40g
>>  mail.com
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  nabs-l mailing list
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>> m%40gmail.c
>>  om
>>
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:30:31 -0500
> From: John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Convention question.
> Message-ID: <BB1ED15A-6262-4F0A-8851-9D79CD60C661 at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>
> If there is one thing I need to go to at convention, what do you guys think
> it is? I'd love to come down at least once and meet all of you. I cannot
> make the banquet or any of the general sessions; I have another conference
> the following weekend I have to prepare for in a town a few miles away. I
> will probably not be able to come to the NABS meeting either. Is there any
> social event I can come to to meet up with those who are coming? Thanks.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:33:37 -0500
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention question.
> Message-ID:
>       <CAO83KOtwwsawzSCCDx2+kA6yQy4OZSgrOK3PRmSFkdgdY6Jr+w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> The barbecue, is Tuesday night, if I'm not mistaken.
> Also, they have the rooky roundup, where all the first-timers go to.
> I believe it's on the night of the first day of general sessions.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/14/12, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
>> If there is one thing I need to go to at convention, what do you guys
>> think
>> it is? I'd love to come down at least once and meet all of you. I cannot
>> make the banquet or any of the general sessions; I have another
>> conference
>> the following weekend I have to prepare for in a town a few miles away. I
>> will probably not be able to come to the NABS meeting either. Is there
>> any
>> social event I can come to to meet up with those who are coming? Thanks.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:35:44 -0500
> From: John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention question.
> Message-ID: <35B45629-7C5D-4F07-81C2-20AE25D94058 at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>
> I am not actually registerring for the convention. I am only going to one
> thing.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:39:53 -0500
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention question.
> Message-ID:
>       <CAO83KOsvzUP7fHXRbNkfQpEF8doqcoGQteBYQQcqV8wMe8pY-w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I'm not sure, that you can do that.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/14/12, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
>> I am not actually registerring for the convention. I am only going to one
>> thing.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 14 May 2012 21:17:17 -0600
> From: Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention question.
> Message-ID:
>       <CALAYQJC7+i00Y=E2VGfQZm8+c0TkVb56mU23ANV77N5dkv7C5Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> NABS might be having a social on Saturday evening, which you can come
> to without registering for the convention. (I am not involved with
> convention planning this year, but we have had this social in the past
> and I think it was alluded to in the last NABS notes). Stay posted for
> the next NABS notes and I think it will be announced there.
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 5/14/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> I'm not sure, that you can do that.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/14/12, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
>>> I am not actually registerring for the convention. I am only going to
>>> one
>>> thing.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 01:18:21 -0400
> From: "Elizabeth" <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention question.
> Message-ID: <COL118-DS12B0C820F444D97B177087BA1B0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>       reply-type=original
>
> Hello John,
>
> If you do not wish to register for the entire convention, nor do you wish to
>
> attend the student seminar or the banquet, then what exactly is your reason
>
> for wanting to attend the convention? I am not asking this question to be
> snippy, or any other adjective you wish to insert, but rather as a means to
>
> figure out the best way to answer your question.
>
> Others may disagree with me, but I personally do not see any reason why you
>
> would have to register for the entire convention to attend either one of
> these events. They are both two of my favorite events at the convention. I
> find hearing the accomplishments and achievements of the scholarship winners
>
> to be rather inspiring.
>
> If you are simply looking to socialize with others, I think Arielle
>  Provided a good idea by mentioning the NABS social. In addition, I would
> also suggest Karaoke night as well as our NABS Monte Carlo night. I do not
> believe you would need to register for the convention to attend these events
>
> either.
>
> However, you could just pay the registration fee and simply attend the parts
>
> of the convention you can without worrying about whether or not you need to
>
> be registered for the convention to attend them.
>
> Just a few of my thoughts. I hope you enjoy the convention if you are able
> to find some time to go.
>
> Elizabeth
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "John Moore" <coasterfreak88 at mac.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 10:30 PM
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Convention question.
>
>> If there is one thing I need to go to at convention, what do you guys
>> think it is? I'd love to come down at least once and meet all of you. I
>> cannot make the banquet or any of the general sessions; I have another
>> conference the following weekend I have to prepare for in a town a few
>> miles away. I will probably not be able to come to the NABS meeting
>> either. Is there any social event I can come to to meet up with those who
>>
>> are coming? Thanks.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 02:11:27 -0500
> From: John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention question.
> Message-ID: <3800F072-1366-4522-B40B-E6B4BCBE9569 at mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII
>
> Hey I'm not offended. I wanted to come hang out with people for a while. I
> actually cannot attend the banquet as I'm checking into another hotel that
> day a few towns away. I might wind up attending the student seminar but
> public transit doesn't run on Sundays and taxis are probably expensive to
> come from Fort Worth.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 09:39:49 -0400
> From: "Ian Perrault" <iperrault at hotmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex
> Message-ID: <SNT111-DS803FE0A4F8A6B24C2635BBF1B0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="Windows-1252"
>
> Hi
> I?m thinking about purchasing a Braille Note Apex, but I already have a
> laptop, an M-Power, and an IPhone. Since it?s a big investment, what am I
> getting on the Apex, that I don?t already have on these other technologies?
> Any thoughts about which avenue to go?
> Ian
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 09:17:38 -0500
> From: "Loren" <isaiah5719 at mchsi.com>
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
>       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex
> Message-ID: <014d01cd32a5$7bd6cdc0$73846940$@mchsi.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="US-ASCII"
>
> The apex is a step up from the m-power. It is lighter and a little faster.
> Also, it will allow you a little more access to sites on the net.  It can
> do
> pdf docs.  I'ved heard it can also do some word docs.  I haven't tried that
> yet.
>
> But unless these things would aid you, and the m-power is in need of
> repair,
> I don't know that I would make the jump at this point.  Afterall, windos ce
> 6.0 is not exactly new.  I have the apex, and I'm glad I do.  But, if you
> are happy with what you have, stay with it.  Because as you said, it is a
> huge investment; and, most of us, don't have money lying around just to
> have
> the newest and greatest.
>
> Loren
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Ian Perrault
> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 8:40 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students
> Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Note Apex
>
> Hi
> I'm thinking about purchasing a Braille Note Apex, but I already have a
> laptop, an M-Power, and an IPhone. Since it's a big investment, what am I
> getting on the Apex, that I don't already have on these other technologies?
> Any thoughts about which avenue to go?
> Ian
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 10:45:09 -0400
> From: Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention question.
> Message-ID: <558A2CCA-430A-4825-885A-CC07699AD1A8 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;     charset=us-ascii
>
> Good walking shoes!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 14, 2012, at 10:30 PM, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
>
>> If there is one thing I need to go to at convention, what do you guys
>> think it is? I'd love to come down at least once and meet all of you. I
>> cannot make the banquet or any of the general sessions; I have another
>> conference the following weekend I have to prepare for in a town a few
>> miles away. I will probably not be able to come to the NABS meeting
>> either. Is there any social event I can come to to meet up with those who
>> are coming? Thanks.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 10:51:38 -0400
> From: Amanda <cape.amanda at gmail.com>
> To: "nabs-l at nfbnet.org" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Facebook games
> Message-ID: <DCA8BE6A-8DD5-43AD-847C-15D9A9721752 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;     charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi all,
> I am I'n the hunt for fun accessible iPhone and Facebook games. Do you guys
> have any suggestions?
>
> Amanda
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 09:55:02 -0500
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook games
> Message-ID:
>       <CAO83KOvakfoAqVkD52=vtRMrA6xr145uu727=Q7EnHzGZi4i-g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> For phones, I wonder how accessible, Angry Birds, is.
> I've heard alot about it, and might play it, when I get my IPhone.
> Thanks for starting this topic!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/15/12, Amanda <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I am I'n the hunt for fun accessible iPhone and Facebook games. Do you
>> guys
>> have any suggestions?
>>
>> Amanda
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 12:27:43 -0400
> From: Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Facebook games
> Message-ID: <1E783EC4-4501-4EEE-948A-FEB05854EF36 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;     charset=us-ascii
>
> For iPhone, try:
> ZaniTouch
> Moxie
> Papa Sangre
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 15, 2012, at 10:51 AM, Amanda <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> I am I'n the hunt for fun accessible iPhone and Facebook games. Do you
>> guys have any suggestions?
>>
>> Amanda
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 11:27:03 -0500
> From: "Gloria G" <gloria.graves at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Course Text
> Message-ID: <1F639668389B4F08BACB17E7C6167047 at Gloria>
> Content-Type: text/plain;     charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hello all,
> I was wondering if anyone would be willing to help me find a accessible
> version of the book sited below? I would prefer a audio copy if possible,
> and I have checked learning ali and bookshare, but have had no luck. Please
> see sitation below.
> Course Text Info:
> Esses, V. M., & Vernon, R. A. (Eds.)  (2008). Explaining the Breakdown if
> Ethnic Relations: Why Neighbors Kill.  Blackwell Publishing.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 12:42:02 -0400
> From: "Elizabeth" <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>       <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention question.
> Message-ID: <COL118-DS12165D4DEADBB535A44ADBBA1B0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>       reply-type=original
>
> Hello John,
>
> I am glad to see you were not offended by my question. I am not from the
> area, so I did not realize public transportation does not run on Sundays. If
>
> you are interested in attending the student seminar, perhaps you could
> contact a local chapter to see if they might be willing to help you out with
>
> transportation. I found the following contacts listed on the Texas affiliate
>
> website:
>
> Fort worth Chapter
> Elizabeth (Liz) Campbell, President
> Phone: 817-738-0350
> Email: fortworth at nfb-texas.org
>
> Dallas Chapter
> Sam Jackson, Vice President
> Phone: 214-504-8116
> Email: samraider1 at gmail.com
>
> I am not sure what your schedule is like for the week, but perhaps one of
> these local contacts could provide some assistance as far as transportation
>
> is concerned so you could make the most out of the parts of convention you
> can attend.
>
> Best of luck,
> Elizabeth
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "John Moore" <coasterfreak88 at mac.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 3:11 AM
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention question.
>
>> Hey I'm not offended. I wanted to come hang out with people for a while. I
>>
>> actually cannot attend the banquet as I'm checking into another hotel that
>>
>> day a few towns away. I might wind up attending the student seminar but
>> public transit doesn't run on Sundays and taxis are probably expensive to
>>
>> come from Fort Worth.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>
>
> End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 67, Issue 21
> **************************************
>



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 16 May 2012 23:43:19 -0700
From: "Humberto Avila" <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com>
To: <blindTlk at nfbNet.org>, <GUI-talk at nfbNet.org>, <nabs-l at nfbNet.org>,
        <nfbcs at nfbNet.org>, <nfb-talk at nfbNet.org>
Cc: humbertoa5369 at netzero.net
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: NVDA screen reader News: NVDA 2012.2beta2
        Released
Message-ID: <BBC5562619A44CC78494AF5A022AAEF2 at HUMBERTOAVILA>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

See below:

-----Original Message-----
From: nvda-announce-bounces at lists.nvaccess.org
[mailto:nvda-announce-bounces at lists.nvaccess.org] On Behalf Of NVDA
announcement list
Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 11:18 PM
To: nvda-announce at lists.nvaccess.org
Subject: NVDA screen reader News: NVDA 2012.2beta2 Released

NV Access is pleased to announce the release of NVDA 2012.2beta2. It is
intended for those who are interested in testing and evaluating the
upcoming NVDA 2012.2 release, but is not recommended for production use.
Testers are encouraged to report any bugs found while using this beta.

For a list of changes from beta1 to beta2 and links to download, please
visit
http://www.nvda-project.org/blog/NVDA2012.2beta2Released

NVDA is developed and supported by NV Access.
http://www.nvaccess.org

NV Access needs your support to continue development of NVDA. Please
consider becoming a monthly subscriber on our donation page at
http://www.nvaccess.org/wiki/Donate
Single donations are of course always welcome also.

Thanks for your support

_______________________________________________
Nvda-announce mailing list
Nvda-announce at lists.nvaccess.org
http://lists.nvaccess.org/listinfo/nvda-announce




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 02:51:59 -0500
From: Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] Please Support The National Federation of the Blind
        of Nebraska Today, May 17, 2012
Message-ID:
        <CALQ-rrOpGO2_sYPPQipKsttt2hWTYpW3uc_yV8NwBXOVgsrgkA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Friends:

Today, May 17, 2012 is not just an ordinary Thursday. Today, is in
fact, Give to Lincoln Day. ON this most magical of Thursdays,
nonprofit organizations that serve constituants in the city of
Lincoln, and surrounding Lancaster county, are raising money to
support their programs and services.

I think most of you know how important being a member of the NFB is to
me. This organization has had a profound impact on my life, ?by
connecting me with positive blind mentors, and allowing me to give
back in a number of ways. I am asking you to consider a donation to
the NFB of Nebraska today. Why today? Well, as I said before, this is
a Magical Thursday. Fore, you see, your donation will be matched by
the Lincoln Community Foundation. That's right, whatever generous
donation you are able to give will actually be instantly* multiplied
and will have double the impact in the community.

The NFBN does a number of good things throughout the state that I
think you ?will find worth while. We work with parents to help their
children learn Braille (without which, they will join the nearly
ninety percent of blind adults who are illiterate); we conduct
seminars for students and parents introducing them to the alternative
techniques of blindness; we provide scholarships to blind college
students; and are involved in many more activities that promote a
positive blindness philosophy.

Please take a moment and visit
http://j.mp/g2lnfbn
 and make a
donation. Please also share this with anyone else in your circle of
contacts you think may be willing to support us.

Thank you!

Sincerely,
Tony Olivero

*Instantly, given the nature of data processing, internet
communications, and phillanthropic check-writing processes may range
from 2 seconds to a non negative, as yet undetermined, number of
weeks.



------------------------------

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org


End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 67, Issue 23
**************************************


From dandrews at visi.com  Fri May 18 02:12:02 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 21:12:02 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Excel 2010 Textbooks are now available for purchase
Message-ID: <auto-000061601138@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>
>I'm pleased to announce the release of our Excel 2010 textbooks.  These
>textbooks are comprehensive explorations of Excel with JAWS or Window-Eyes.
>Review the table of contents and place your order at:
>http://www.blindtraining.com/shop/office2010.htm.
>
>
>
>Due to an outage of my shopping carts FTP site, I'll be sending download
>links to all who purchase the textbooks.
>
>
>
>CathyAnne
>
>
>
>CathyAnne Murtha
>
>Online Access Technology Trainer
>
>Access Technology Institute
>
>cathy at blindtraining.com
>
>www.twitter.com/CathyAnneMurtha
>
>www.blindtraining.com
>
>
>
>Listen to my radio show Thursday nights 10:00 PM Eastern
>
>www.mushroomfm.com
>
>
>
>-------------- next part --------------
>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>URL: 
><http://lists.blindtraining.com/private.cgi/news-blindtraining.com/attachments/20120517/9ab0ab03/attachment.htm>



From amylsabo at comcast.net  Fri May 18 03:13:45 2012
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 21:13:45 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] new address
Message-ID: <000001cd34a4$3f5a5d20$be0f1760$@comcast.net>

Hello all,
 
I hope that you are all doing well. I just wanted to let you know that as of
next weekend I will be moving to a new place. So, here's my new address so,,
you can all make the necessary changes of this in your address book.
 
 
 
 
Amy sabo
8600 e. Jefferson ave
Apt. 2-204
Denver, co 80327
 
I look forward to further and continue correspondence from you all!
 
 
 
Hugs,
amy

From jty727 at gmail.com  Fri May 18 03:31:01 2012
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 23:31:01 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] new address
In-Reply-To: <000001cd34a4$3f5a5d20$be0f1760$@comcast.net>
References: <000001cd34a4$3f5a5d20$be0f1760$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s5cnJ0aE1p9fPZRu9KO3yBybo=xHyX_VrRziy4pqvM5pA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Amy!

Hope you are doing wonderfully!  Thanks for sending this information.

Justin=)

On 5/17/12, Amy Sabo <amylsabo at comcast.net> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I hope that you are all doing well. I just wanted to let you know that as
> of
> next weekend I will be moving to a new place. So, here's my new address
> so,,
> you can all make the necessary changes of this in your address book.
>
>
>
>
> Amy sabo
> 8600 e. Jefferson ave
> Apt. 2-204
> Denver, co 80327
>
> I look forward to further and continue correspondence from you all!
>
>
>
> Hugs,
> amy
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Fri May 18 14:21:47 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 09:21:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] E-books
Message-ID: <BE11A7B0D5744570B7BE68D9CE8F3419@Gloria>

Hello all,
I am trying to download a E-book from my schools library, but am having no luck. I downloaded the latest version of adoby but the e-book is not reading. Can anyone help me A.s.a.p? I have to have this book for a summer class I am  urrently taking and I am already a couple chapters behind. I have tried contacting my library, but have heard nothing. I have also contacted my disabilities office here on campus but again have had no luck.
Thanks

From nbrav003 at fiu.edu  Fri May 18 17:55:37 2012
From: nbrav003 at fiu.edu (Nallym Bravo)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 13:55:37 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: Fw: National WISE Webinar on Social Security benefits
References: <4830B254B5014DB1BFB14EC7B2286560@D22JJSC1>
Message-ID: <4B87783F-4E1B-477B-BB7A-8FC29E375A3D@fiu.edu>



Best,
Nallym Bravo
nbrav003 at fiu.edu
Please excuse the brevity of this message as it was sent from a mobile device. 

> Social Security is hosting a national WISE webinar on Wednesday, May 23 that will present information about Social Security programs and rules that may apply to young adults who receive disability benefits. Join the webinar to learn about Ticket to Work & Work Incentives, frequently asked questions, and where to find more information. You will hear from benefits experts about special Work Incentives especially for young adults in transition:
> 
> Student Earned Income Exclusion
> Plan to Achieve Self Support
> Section 301 Continuing Benefits
> The 90-minute webinar still start at 3:00 p.m. EDT. Register online at www.choosework.net/wise or call 1-866-968-7842 (V) or 1-866-833-2967 (TTY/TDD).
> 
> Take advantage of the opportunity to ask our Ticket experts your questions during our Facebook Q&A immediately following the webinar, starting at 4:30 p.m. EDT.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> Milagros Rios
> 
> Sr. VR Counselor
> 
> Division of Vocational Rehabilitation
> 
> 8700 W. Flagler St. Suite 403
> 
> Miami, FL 33174
> 
>  
> 
> (305) 227-7580
> 
> (305 227-7584 Fax
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS MESSAGE IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL.  IT IS INTENDED ONLY FOR THE USE OF THE INDIVIDUAL OR ENTITY NAMED ABOVE.  IF THE READER OF THIS MESSAGE IS NOT THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, OR THE EMPLOYEE OR AGENT RESPONSIBLE TO DELIVER IT TO THE INTENDED RECIPIENT, YOU ARE HEREBY NOTIFIED THAT ANY DISSEMINATION, DISTRIBUTION OR COPYING OF THIS COMMUNICATION IS STRICTLY PROHIBITED.  IF YOU HAVE RECEIVED THIS COMMUNICATION IN ERROR, PLEASE IMMEDIATELY NOTIFY US BY TELEPHONE AND RETURN THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE.
> 
>  

From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Fri May 18 19:26:58 2012
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 15:26:58 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] E-books
In-Reply-To: <BE11A7B0D5744570B7BE68D9CE8F3419@Gloria>
References: <BE11A7B0D5744570B7BE68D9CE8F3419@Gloria>
Message-ID: <CABORmNuwXbspaZEKkvijNDLESj2VbURG70o-tad6EtPQv_++Hg@mail.gmail.com>

Have you talked to the IT at your school? I go to them for all my
technology-related problems on campus.

~Jewel

On 5/18/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello all,
> I am trying to download a E-book from my schools library, but am having no
> luck. I downloaded the latest version of adoby but the e-book is not
> reading. Can anyone help me A.s.a.p? I have to have this book for a summer
> class I am  urrently taking and I am already a couple chapters behind. I
> have tried contacting my library, but have heard nothing. I have also
> contacted my disabilities office here on campus but again have had no luck.
> Thanks
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>


From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Fri May 18 20:26:06 2012
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 16:26:06 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography
In-Reply-To: <E562E0C43D4D4AE294DCD08C0F9406B5@HeatherAcer>
References: <61CFCA47564E49DABB728E7CC5EDF533@Gloria>
	<4fb2c8d3.aa22320a.4927.ffff961b@mx.google.com>
	<E562E0C43D4D4AE294DCD08C0F9406B5@HeatherAcer>
Message-ID: <CABORmNszQKZwOTeK9g4uCKy-m-i=VSbU8RmcZgz5A2TvD3mAuQ@mail.gmail.com>

The Princeton Braillists
http://mysite.verizon.net/resvqbxe/princetonbraillists/

On 5/15/12, Heather Field <missheather at comcast.net> wrote:
> The Princeton Braillists. They specialise in maps and atlases.
> Google them. You'll find a phone number. I don't believe they have a
> website.
> Regards,
> Heather
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andi
> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:21 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] World Geography
>
> I took several geography classes and it does deal a lot with cultures but
> you will most likely have to study maps.  I used a world atlas that I
> borrowed from my former T.C.  It was tactile with the maps drawn out in
> raised lines and different textures.  Their were symbols on it that
> represented different things, and the keys were all labeled in brail.  It
> was a big book and so I left it in one place.  I studied it and memorized
> most all of it in order to take tests and participate in classroom
> activities.  I will try to find the name of that atlas and who makes it.  I
> will try to find out where you can get one.
>
> Andi
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Gloria G
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 1:52 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography
>
> Hi all,
> I was wondering if anyone has taken or are taking a world geography class?
> If so how do you handle maps? Can you tell me about other challenges you
> have had or are having with the class? Thanks
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.dempsey%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com
>


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Fri May 18 23:26:35 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 19:26:35 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] E-books
Message-ID: <4fb6dab8.05d6e00a.42bb.ffff9612@mx.google.com>

Hi Gloria,

Sounds like either an inaccessible book or an inaccessible 
program your school's library is using for their eBooks.  Have 
you tried Bookshare? RFBD? NLS BARD? By the way, is the book a 
PDF file?

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gloria G" <gloria.graves at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Fri, 18 May 2012 09:21:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] E-books

Hello all,
I am trying to download a E-book from my schools library, but am 
having no luck.  I downloaded the latest version of adoby but the 
e-book is not reading.  Can anyone help me A.s.a.p? I have to 
have this book for a summer class I am  urrently taking and I am 
already a couple chapters behind.  I have tried contacting my 
library, but have heard nothing.  I have also contacted my 
disabilities office here on campus but again have had no luck.
Thanks
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sat May 19 02:33:42 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 21:33:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind people doing community service
Message-ID: <CAO83KOu96oqZqzGuWniZf+kZLbj2SKxWdTOk1moR1VUpE1J7kg@mail.gmail.com>

I think this counts, but I'm a musician, as everyone here knows.
I go out to the nursing homes, to entertain the residents, with
uplifting Gospel music.
I know it's not much, but I'm doing what I can, in this community.
This is also blindness related, because I'm assisting a blind
resident, who has finally decided, that she wants to learn Braille!
Woohoo!
I've talked about her, on another list.
We need to do outreaches like this, as blind people, to make people
more aware of us, and our issues.
Also, when the sighted individuals see that blindness isn't something
that keeps us from doing what we want to do, their perceptions of us
will change!
I'd like to know what all you guys are doing, to serve your community!
Thanks, Joshua


From nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com  Sat May 19 03:53:30 2012
From: nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com (community service Outreach)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2012 22:53:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Reminder: Community Service call Sunday, May 20th
Message-ID: <CAOY844Ss8pyb5q5coSwR2a54p0ELLyt6+i8G_o9aORqf5YHfMw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, all,

Does your chapter want to get involved with community service but isn't sure
quite how to do it? Do you ever wonder about the benefits
of community service and chapter involvement? Do you want to learn about
possible ways your chapter or affiliate can get involved? If so, this call
is for you!
Come and hear from a current chapter president who actively works to get
their chapter involved in community service Work.   Also hear from an
affiliate member who was   successful in introducing  community service to
their affiliate, how they did it, and the tips they may have for breaking
the ice!

When: Sunday, May 20th, at 6 ET

Topic: Community Service and Chapter Involvement

Where:
(218) 339-3600
passcode 808277

Come along, invite someone, and we look forward to  talking to you then!

The Community  Service grou


From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com  Sat May 19 04:00:59 2012
From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 00:00:59 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] roommates for convention
Message-ID: <CAAurf=feMe2Se4iWbaOO10vgjB2pgzzcsrYuyHDb8kdOk+g5mw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All!
I'm trying really hard to get to convention this year in Dallas. Want
to do the nabs meeting again, do performing arts stuff too, etc.
If anyone is needing/wanting a roommate for convention and wants to
talk, email me at
daviddunphy at audioaccessfm.com
Thanks.


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Sat May 19 14:21:09 2012
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 07:21:09 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] You know it's near time for National Convention when...
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjOy9Umu_yqQtsOOg=UP-zbHDoy+zUYq1KL7-kQno0SJZg@mail.gmail.com>

 As you all know, the National association of blind students is
planning a lot of exciting things at national convention. What you may
not know however is that we as a board can’t do all of it ourselves.
So we would very much appreciate your help in making the nabs
activities a success this year!
 Where we would most appreciate your assistance is in two areas:
1.  Assistance in staffing the nabs table located in the exhibit hall.
 Here you will be partnered up with a nabs board member selling   nabs
items and handing out nabs literature.  The schedule for tabling looks
like this:
 Sunday, July 1:	
 Shift 1. 11:00 a.m. – 1:00 p.m.
Shift 2. 1:00 p.m. – 3:00 p.m.
Shift 3. 3:00p.m. – 5:00 p.m.
Monday, July 2:
Shift 4:  8:30 a.m. – 11:00 a.m.
Shift 5: 11:00 a.m. – 1:00 p.m.
Shift 6: 1:00 p.m. – 3:00 p.m.
Shift 7: 3:00 p.m. – 5:00p.m.
Tuesday, July 3:
Shift 8: 12 noon – 1:45 p.m.
 Shift 9: 7:00p.m. – 9:00 p.m.
Wednesday, July 4:
Shift 10: 12 noon – 1:45 p.m
Shift 11: 6:00p.m. – 8:30 p.m.


As you can see, we have eleven shifts, so if you contact me with your
preference, I will be more than happy to get you scheduled in!

2. Staffing the nabs Monte Carlo night fund raiser. This is a great
opportunity to work shoulder to shoulder with us in putting together
one of our most successful events that we do.  For this we will need:
 Individuals who can work an early shift (7:00 p.m. - 9:30 p.m.  Those
individuals will be asked to either
a.	Marshal.
b.	Set up for the event
c.	Deal card games( blackjack, poker, holdemand other such games)
 We will also need Late shift workers (9:30 p.m. – 12:00 a.m.)  Those
individuals would be asked to:
a.	deal card games (blackjack, poker, holdem and other such games)
b.	Assist with event clean- up and playing chip counting.

Please let me know what shift(s) you are interested in working
(exhibit hall, Monte Carlo or both). If Monte Carlo, please let me
know what job you would like to take on, if you would like to deal and
what games you would like to deal (blackjack, poker, holdem or other
such games).
 This is a great opportunity for you to meet the nabs board, and us to
get to know you. As well, this is an equally great opportunity for you
to meet a lot of new people and have some fun at the same time.
 Please contact me if interested.
 I can be contacted at: dsmithnfb at gmail.com

 Thank you   so much for your interest and I look forward to hearing
from you all real soon
 And of course, see you in Dallas!!!
  Best,
Darian
>


-- 
Darian Smith, 2nd  Vice President
national Association of Blind Students

"To dream what is possible and to put oneself in service of that dream is the
formula
for a life well lived."

- Dr. Peter Benson


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sat May 19 16:35:02 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 12:35:02 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography
Message-ID: <4fb7cbc4.4a64e00a.12c1.181a@mx.google.com>

They are definitely a great group! I have their World Maps book, 
and use it in my history class all the time.

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Jewel <herekittykat2 at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Fri, 18 May 2012 16:26:06 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] World Geography

The Princeton Braillists
http://mysite.verizon.net/resvqbxe/princetonbraillists/

On 5/15/12, Heather Field <missheather at comcast.net> wrote:
 The Princeton Braillists.  They specialise in maps and atlases.
 Google them.  You'll find a phone number.  I don't believe they 
have a
 website.
 Regards,
 Heather

 -----Original Message-----
 From: Andi
 Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:21 PM
 To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
 Subject: Re: [nabs-l] World Geography

 I took several geography classes and it does deal a lot with 
cultures but
 you will most likely have to study maps.  I used a world atlas 
that I
 borrowed from my former T.C.  It was tactile with the maps drawn 
out in
 raised lines and different textures.  Their were symbols on it 
that
 represented different things, and the keys were all labeled in 
brail.  It
 was a big book and so I left it in one place.  I studied it and 
memorized
 most all of it in order to take tests and participate in 
classroom
 activities.  I will try to find the name of that atlas and who 
makes it.  I
 will try to find out where you can get one.

 Andi

 -----Original Message-----
 From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
 Behalf
 Of Gloria G
 Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 1:52 PM
 To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
 Subject: [nabs-l] World Geography

 Hi all,
 I was wondering if anyone has taken or are taking a world 
geography class?
 If so how do you handle maps? Can you tell me about other 
challenges you
 have had or are having with the class? Thanks
 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/adrianne.demp
sey%40gmail
 .com


 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%4
0comcast.net



 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2
%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat May 19 18:43:10 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 14:43:10 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] track changes
Message-ID: <52250DFA73F24C5C9A2568AA6D8403F6@OwnerPC>

Hi all,

Who has used track changes? can someone explain what they do? I know that it is a feature that when turned on supposed to track the edits you do. Then a commenter inserts comments and you’re supposed to be able to read them. What does it look like? Are comments written to the side, in the text or what? Finally, I’m being taught track changes/revisions from someone and we cannot get jaws to list the revisions one by one. Instead it reads the whole document after pressing the revisions list key: insert shift r.

So if you got them to work, how? Sometimes my professors use track changes and I’d like to be able to read the comments in a way that makes sense.

Thanks.

From dandrews at visi.com  Sat May 19 18:46:14 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 13:46:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible HD/FM Radio Announced
Message-ID: <auto-000061116171@mailfront4.g2host.com>

Best Buy, working with IAAIS has announced an accessible, talking, 
FM/HD tabletop radio.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/18/idUS150650+18-May-2012+HUG20120518

Dave



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat May 19 18:50:00 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 12:50:00 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] track changes
In-Reply-To: <52250DFA73F24C5C9A2568AA6D8403F6@OwnerPC>
References: <52250DFA73F24C5C9A2568AA6D8403F6@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBaELqCyjv43DfuffHqJqpwTYWnTDujo8jmr7=K9K3C9A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley,
When Track Changes is on, any insertions you make will be underlined,
and any deletions will be crossed out I believe. The comments appear
in a little balloon in the text margin. You can use
control-shift-apostrophe to read the comments one by one. You can also
move through the document by line, word or character and JAWS should
say "comment" when it reaches commented text. You can then move word
by word to the comment and JAWS will read it within the document.
Shift-Alt-R is the correct command to read the list of revisions; I'm
not sure why it didn't work for you.
You can also simply accept all the revisions in a document. To do so
in Word 2007 or 2010, tab through the "review" ribbon until you reach
"track changes" and then keep tabbing until you get to "accept and
move to next". Press space on that split button and arrow down to
"accept all changes in document". Then press enter and all the
revisions made by someone else will become part of your document.
Best,
Arielle

On 5/19/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Who has used track changes? can someone explain what they do? I know that it
> is a feature that when turned on supposed to track the edits you do. Then a
> commenter inserts comments and you’re supposed to be able to read them. What
> does it look like? Are comments written to the side, in the text or what?
> Finally, I’m being taught track changes/revisions from someone and we cannot
> get jaws to list the revisions one by one. Instead it reads the whole
> document after pressing the revisions list key: insert shift r.
>
> So if you got them to work, how? Sometimes my professors use track changes
> and I’d like to be able to read the comments in a way that makes sense.
>
> Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Sat May 19 22:34:56 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 17:34:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible HD/FM Radio Announced
Message-ID: <4fb82045.4287ec0a.1e7d.6902@mx.google.com>

Has anyone tested this out yet? This is a great step, but we have 
to remember that the first generation may be flawed. I am 
interested to see how this accessible radio turns out.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sat, 19 May 2012 13:46:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible HD/FM Radio Announced

Best Buy, working with IAAIS has announced an accessible, 
talking,
FM/HD tabletop radio.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/18/idUS150650+18-May-2012+
HUG20120518

Dave


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
r%40gmail.com


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun May 20 01:39:18 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 21:39:18 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] track changes
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJBaELqCyjv43DfuffHqJqpwTYWnTDujo8jmr7=K9K3C9A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <52250DFA73F24C5C9A2568AA6D8403F6@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJBaELqCyjv43DfuffHqJqpwTYWnTDujo8jmr7=K9K3C9A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <584FA28BCB2841E385EFA3D9B84D54E1@OwnerPC>

Arielle,
Thanks. I'll try that idea for reviewing comments. I  tried the command
insert shift R.  for revisions. I'll try alt shift r as well.
Track changes seems like a good feature provided it makes sense with jaws.

Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 2:50 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] track changes

Hi Ashley,
When Track Changes is on, any insertions you make will be underlined,
and any deletions will be crossed out I believe. The comments appear
in a little balloon in the text margin. You can use
control-shift-apostrophe to read the comments one by one. You can also
move through the document by line, word or character and JAWS should
say "comment" when it reaches commented text. You can then move word
by word to the comment and JAWS will read it within the document.
Shift-Alt-R is the correct command to read the list of revisions; I'm
not sure why it didn't work for you.
You can also simply accept all the revisions in a document. To do so
in Word 2007 or 2010, tab through the "review" ribbon until you reach
"track changes" and then keep tabbing until you get to "accept and
move to next". Press space on that split button and arrow down to
"accept all changes in document". Then press enter and all the
revisions made by someone else will become part of your document.
Best,
Arielle

On 5/19/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Who has used track changes? can someone explain what they do? I know that 
> it
> is a feature that when turned on supposed to track the edits you do. Then 
> a
> commenter inserts comments and you’re supposed to be able to read them. 
> What
> does it look like? Are comments written to the side, in the text or what?
> Finally, I’m being taught track changes/revisions from someone and we 
> cannot
> get jaws to list the revisions one by one. Instead it reads the whole
> document after pressing the revisions list key: insert shift r.
>
> So if you got them to work, how? Sometimes my professors use track changes
> and I’d like to be able to read the comments in a way that makes sense.
>
> Thanks.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From dandrews at visi.com  Sun May 20 02:40:59 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 21:40:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible HD/FM Radio Announced
In-Reply-To: <4fb82045.4287ec0a.1e7d.6902@mx.google.com>
References: <4fb82045.4287ec0a.1e7d.6902@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000061132213@mailfront4.g2host.com>

It can't yet be tested by public because not out until July.

Dave

At 05:34 PM 5/19/2012, you wrote:
>Has anyone tested this out yet? This is a great step, but we have to 
>remember that the first generation may be flawed. I am interested to 
>see how this accessible radio turns out.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com
>To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>Date sent: Sat, 19 May 2012 13:46:14 -0500
>Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible HD/FM Radio Announced
>
>Best Buy, working with IAAIS has announced an accessible, talking,
>FM/HD tabletop radio.
>
>
>http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/18/idUS150650+18-May-2012+
>HUG20120518
>
>Dave



From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Sun May 20 14:51:39 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 09:51:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts
Message-ID: <703577B600D547C1A141A91A0C699DDE@Gloria>

Hi all,
just a quick question. when reading a daisy formatted book, I noticed there is a number given for pages but before the page is over there are also other numbers given. Are these numbers for the paragraphs? I hope this makes since. I was also wondering if anyone knew how I might attain my learning ally membership ID since I am not able to call into the office and talk to a customer service representative? I know on the web site you can press the link that says forgot log in info, but that takes me to a page where I have to put in my membership ID and email address. Well I do not have my membership ID so am having trouble. Thanks for any help anyone might be able to provide me.

From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun May 20 14:54:13 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 10:54:13 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts
Message-ID: <4fb905a4.cfb7e00a.0322.ffff9978@mx.google.com>

If I'm understanding you correctly, those other numbers are the 
numbers for the headings.

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gloria G" <gloria.graves at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Sun, 20 May 2012 09:51:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts

Hi all,
just a quick question.  when reading a daisy formatted book, I 
noticed there is a number given for pages but before the page is 
over there are also other numbers given.  Are these numbers for 
the paragraphs? I hope this makes since.  I was also wondering if 
anyone knew how I might attain my learning ally membership ID 
since I am not able to call into the office and talk to a 
customer service representative? I know on the web site you can 
press the link that says forgot log in info, but that takes me to 
a page where I have to put in my membership ID and email address.  
Well I do not have my membership ID so am having trouble.  Thanks 
for any help anyone might be able to provide me.
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com


From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Sun May 20 15:02:39 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 10:02:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts
References: <4fb905a4.cfb7e00a.0322.ffff9978@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <6425057E7B2C427685FB64A1DCC28FB0@Gloria>

Thanks, so it would not give me the numbers to the pparagraphs?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts


> If I'm understanding you correctly, those other numbers are the numbers 
> for the headings.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>
> Sent from my BrailleNote
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gloria G" <gloria.graves at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> sent: Sun, 20 May 2012 09:51:39 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts
>
> Hi all,
> just a quick question.  when reading a daisy formatted book, I noticed 
> there is a number given for pages but before the page is over there are 
> also other numbers given.  Are these numbers for the paragraphs? I hope 
> this makes since.  I was also wondering if anyone knew how I might attain 
> my learning ally membership ID since I am not able to call into the office 
> and talk to a customer service representative? I know on the web site you 
> can press the link that says forgot log in info, but that takes me to a 
> page where I have to put in my membership ID and email address.  Well I do 
> not have my membership ID so am having trouble.  Thanks for any help 
> anyone might be able to provide me.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com 



From nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com  Sun May 20 16:10:22 2012
From: nfbcsoutreach at gmail.com (community service Outreach)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 11:10:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Community Service call tonight!
Message-ID: <CAOY844Q23qgaY0S=xiyrXeQ6_PbvuGEads+-eUELLACy-FHDOg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, all,

Does your chapter want to get involved with community service but isn't sure
quite how to do it? Do you ever wonder about the benefits
of community service and chapter involvement? Do you want to learn about
possible ways your chapter or affiliate can get involved? If so, this call
is for you!
Come and hear from a current chapter president who actively works to get
their chapter involved in community service Work.   Also hear from an
affiliate member who was   successful in introducing  community service to
their affiliate, how they did it, and the tips they may have for breaking
the ice!

When: Sunday, May 20th, at 6 ET

Topic: Community Service and Chapter Involvement

Where:
(218) 339-3600
passcode 808277


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun May 20 16:12:28 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 12:12:28 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts
Message-ID: <4fb917fb.87c0e00a.1db7.ffff99dd@mx.google.com>

I don't think so.

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Gloria G" <gloria.graves at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Sun, 20 May 2012 10:02:39 -0500
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts

Thanks, so it would not give me the numbers to the pparagraphs?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts


 If I'm understanding you correctly, those other numbers are the 
numbers
 for the headings.

 Chris Nusbaum

 "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
 2 Corinthians 5:7

 Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
 From: "Gloria G" <gloria.graves at gmail.com
 To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
 <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Sun, 20 May 2012 09:51:39 -0500
 Subject: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts

 Hi all,
 just a quick question.  when reading a daisy formatted book, I 
noticed
 there is a number given for pages but before the page is over 
there are
 also other numbers given.  Are these numbers for the paragraphs? 
I hope
 this makes since.  I was also wondering if anyone knew how I 
might attain
 my learning ally membership ID since I am not able to call into 
the office
 and talk to a customer service representative? I know on the web 
site you
 can press the link that says forgot log in info, but that takes 
me to a
 page where I have to put in my membership ID and email address.  
Well I do
 not have my membership ID so am having trouble.  Thanks for any 
help
 anyone might be able to provide me.
 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
 m%40gmail.com

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
%40gmail.com


_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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m%40gmail.com


From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Sun May 20 16:54:52 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 11:54:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts
References: <4fb917fb.87c0e00a.1db7.ffff99dd@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <1795A65872514357B05504ED998F2DE5@Gloria>

thanks
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts


>I don't think so.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>
> Sent from my BrailleNote
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gloria G" <gloria.graves at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> sent: Sun, 20 May 2012 10:02:39 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts
>
> Thanks, so it would not give me the numbers to the pparagraphs?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 9:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts
>
>
> If I'm understanding you correctly, those other numbers are the numbers
> for the headings.
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>
> Sent from my BrailleNote
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gloria G" <gloria.graves at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> sent: Sun, 20 May 2012 09:51:39 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts
>
> Hi all,
> just a quick question.  when reading a daisy formatted book, I noticed
> there is a number given for pages but before the page is over there are
> also other numbers given.  Are these numbers for the paragraphs? I hope
> this makes since.  I was also wondering if anyone knew how I might attain
> my learning ally membership ID since I am not able to call into the office
> and talk to a customer service representative? I know on the web site you
> can press the link that says forgot log in info, but that takes me to a
> page where I have to put in my membership ID and email address.  Well I do
> not have my membership ID so am having trouble.  Thanks for any help
> anyone might be able to provide me.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
> %40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com 



From anthony at olivero.us  Sun May 20 17:33:09 2012
From: anthony at olivero.us (Tony Olivero)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 12:33:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts
In-Reply-To: <1795A65872514357B05504ED998F2DE5@Gloria>
References: <4fb917fb.87c0e00a.1db7.ffff99dd@mx.google.com>
	<1795A65872514357B05504ED998F2DE5@Gloria>
Message-ID: <CALQ-rrO9x9qMc+6==rfBgG1-473KReBq_ExUJyHcE3_k+QR6_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Gloria,

While Chris is possibly correct, in as some books will give numbers
like "1.2" or "1.2.3" for section numbers (a behavior I've seen most
commonly in technical publications), there is another possibility.

Sometimes the DAISY page numbers don't match the printed page numbers.
It all depends how the material was prepared. For example, even when I
assign a user defined page number in Kurzweil 1000, making the file on
my computer match the printed book, saving as DAISY always results in
the first page of the file being page 1, instead of a "preliminary
page". So, it is possible you are hearing two different page numbers,
one in the text from scanning or production, and one assigned by the
DAISY file.

As to your second question, why do you need your member ID? If you are
trying to log into the Learning Ally website your username should be
the e-mail address you initially signed up for. If not, you could also
try using your SSN as your member ID. I can't remember for sure, but I
have a vague recollection they used those as an ID at one point.

Tony

On 5/20/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
> thanks
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 11:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts
>
>
>>I don't think so.
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
>> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>>
>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gloria G" <gloria.graves at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> sent: Sun, 20 May 2012 10:02:39 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts
>>
>> Thanks, so it would not give me the numbers to the pparagraphs?
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 9:54 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts
>>
>>
>> If I'm understanding you correctly, those other numbers are the numbers
>> for the headings.
>>
>> Chris Nusbaum
>>
>> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
>> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>>
>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Gloria G" <gloria.graves at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> sent: Sun, 20 May 2012 09:51:39 -0500
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts
>>
>> Hi all,
>> just a quick question.  when reading a daisy formatted book, I noticed
>> there is a number given for pages but before the page is over there are
>> also other numbers given.  Are these numbers for the paragraphs? I hope
>> this makes since.  I was also wondering if anyone knew how I might attain
>> my learning ally membership ID since I am not able to call into the
>> office
>> and talk to a customer service representative? I know on the web site you
>> can press the link that says forgot log in info, but that takes me to a
>> page where I have to put in my membership ID and email address.  Well I
>> do
>> not have my membership ID so am having trouble.  Thanks for any help
>> anyone might be able to provide me.
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>> m%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>> %40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>> m%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us
>


From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Sun May 20 18:28:00 2012
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria G)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 13:28:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts
References: <4fb917fb.87c0e00a.1db7.ffff99dd@mx.google.com><1795A65872514357B05504ED998F2DE5@Gloria>
	<CALQ-rrO9x9qMc+6==rfBgG1-473KReBq_ExUJyHcE3_k+QR6_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <36BF2BB8D0AA47A0BF85A013E9288482@Gloria>

thank you very much
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tony Olivero" <anthony at olivero.us>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 12:33 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts


> Gloria,
>
> While Chris is possibly correct, in as some books will give numbers
> like "1.2" or "1.2.3" for section numbers (a behavior I've seen most
> commonly in technical publications), there is another possibility.
>
> Sometimes the DAISY page numbers don't match the printed page numbers.
> It all depends how the material was prepared. For example, even when I
> assign a user defined page number in Kurzweil 1000, making the file on
> my computer match the printed book, saving as DAISY always results in
> the first page of the file being page 1, instead of a "preliminary
> page". So, it is possible you are hearing two different page numbers,
> one in the text from scanning or production, and one assigned by the
> DAISY file.
>
> As to your second question, why do you need your member ID? If you are
> trying to log into the Learning Ally website your username should be
> the e-mail address you initially signed up for. If not, you could also
> try using your SSN as your member ID. I can't remember for sure, but I
> have a vague recollection they used those as an ID at one point.
>
> Tony
>
> On 5/20/12, Gloria G <gloria.graves at gmail.com> wrote:
>> thanks
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 11:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts
>>
>>
>>>I don't think so.
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
>>> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>>>
>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Gloria G" <gloria.graves at gmail.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> sent: Sun, 20 May 2012 10:02:39 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts
>>>
>>> Thanks, so it would not give me the numbers to the pparagraphs?
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 9:54 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts
>>>
>>>
>>> If I'm understanding you correctly, those other numbers are the numbers
>>> for the headings.
>>>
>>> Chris Nusbaum
>>>
>>> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
>>> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>>>
>>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Gloria G" <gloria.graves at gmail.com
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> sent: Sun, 20 May 2012 09:51:39 -0500
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Daisy Texts
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> just a quick question.  when reading a daisy formatted book, I noticed
>>> there is a number given for pages but before the page is over there are
>>> also other numbers given.  Are these numbers for the paragraphs? I hope
>>> this makes since.  I was also wondering if anyone knew how I might 
>>> attain
>>> my learning ally membership ID since I am not able to call into the
>>> office
>>> and talk to a customer service representative? I know on the web site 
>>> you
>>> can press the link that says forgot log in info, but that takes me to a
>>> page where I have to put in my membership ID and email address.  Well I
>>> do
>>> not have my membership ID so am having trouble.  Thanks for any help
>>> anyone might be able to provide me.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>>> m%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves
>>> %40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
>>> m%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com 



From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com  Sun May 20 18:38:27 2012
From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 14:38:27 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] recording tonight's math call
Message-ID: <CAAurf=cLgMyGrt+56w=DRccGKHGpPu0T1Sp7-N4znQ3qnP1CWw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi There!
I will be streaming tonight's Math call for the Nabs audio site. And,
as a rare thing, it'll be streamed live on the internet for anyone
wanting to hear it.
The conference call starts at 7 PM eastern, and you can hear it live
on your computer if you can't call in by going to
http://www.audioaccessfm.com/listen_live.php
Or if that link gives you trouble, go to
http://www.audioaccessfm.com/broadband.php
Can't make tonight's show? Look for a download link to be posted later.
If anyone on the membership committee feels I shuldn't record this or
doesn't want me to, email
daviddunphy at audioaccessfm.com
Otherwise, assume I'll be on the call.


Enjoy!
[P./


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Sun May 20 19:16:39 2012
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 12:16:39 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Correction: nabs Convention Help
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjOcXADACAJJ17nxWrE6oSgt=zObOhv-sCTQ0HBc2Dnt2A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

 I    neglected to  ask you all to include
a phone number to be reached at if you are  planning on helping us out
at convention.
  so to Recap...

1. if you are interested in helping out, please conrtact me at
dsmithnfb at gmail.com

2.  let me know where you  would like to help ( see prior e-mail with
the subject "You know it's near time for National Convention when...
" )

3.  please include phone  number to where you can be reached.
Thanks so much!
  Darian
-- 
Darian Smith

"To dream what is possible and to put oneself in service of that dream is the
formula
for a life well lived."

- Dr. Peter Benson


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Sun May 20 19:28:48 2012
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 12:28:48 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: NOPBC Style Show
In-Reply-To: <1337539938.26541.YahooMailNeo@web2801.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
References: <1337539938.26541.YahooMailNeo@web2801.biz.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjPJWv3kA-Hv=2Fgiu4A5k6_9wdvfYio2GBVcDimeBHHOw@mail.gmail.com>

I have  been asked to pass along the following and urge you to pass
this along to people in your  state student  division.
 It would be wonderful if we stepped up and helped out our friends in
the parent division!

 Regards,
  Darian Smith, 2nd Vice- President
National Association of Blind Students


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Kim Cunningham <kim at gulfimagesphoto.com>
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 11:52:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: NOPBC Style Show
To: "dsmithnfb at gmail.com" <dsmithnfb at gmail.com>
Cc: Carol Castellano <carol_castellano at verizon.net>, Pamela and Steve
Gebert <spgebert at alaska.net>, Sandra Oliver <sandra.oliver at ey.com>,
Lety Sturgill <letonflor at yahoo.com>

Good afternoon Darian,
My name is Kim Cunningham. I am the president of Texas Parents of
Blind Children. I have been asked to assist with hosting the NOPBC
Style Show during the NFB National Convention in Dallas this summer.
We originally opened enrollment to our young blind and visually
impaired children, however we didn't have as many apply as had hoped.
I currently only have 7 participants and would like to have around 30.
We are hoping our college aged students might be interested and help
to make this show a success.
I would like to know if you would post the attached invitation on the
NABS list serv and also request for the individual states to send it
to their student divisions. Please let me know if you are able to do
this for me.
Regards,
Kim Cunningham


-- 
Darian Smith

"To dream what is possible and to put oneself in service of that dream is the
formula
for a life well lived."

- Dr. Peter Benson


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Sun May 20 20:03:37 2012
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 13:03:37 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind people doing community service
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOu96oqZqzGuWniZf+kZLbj2SKxWdTOk1moR1VUpE1J7kg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO83KOu96oqZqzGuWniZf+kZLbj2SKxWdTOk1moR1VUpE1J7kg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjOFTtUnLTxGOvutoP263szYuvErdXWRyn+oqaA2PSx9HQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
  I know  I have been pretty quite on the list  as of late, but I
figure I should add my two cents.

 Obviously, any way you  can use your talents and skills to  better  a
community of any sort is  a very good thing and is considered
"community Service".

 This is my personal feeling, but I think it would be great if we
challanged ourselvesa little bit and tried to take our talents and use
them to benifitnot just the blind.
 I am a big fan of non-blindness based community service.
  As enough people probably know I dida ten-month service term  in
AmeriCorps.  I think  I have learned so much from that time, and I
reminded myself that in order to be considered a part of society, I
really should do service work shoulder to shoulder with my sighted
peers.
  I learned so much about myself, the country, and the issues we face
in some places.

 Just some thoughts, and I would be intereste  in hearing yours.
  Take care,
  Darian

On 5/18/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> I think this counts, but I'm a musician, as everyone here knows.
> I go out to the nursing homes, to entertain the residents, with
> uplifting Gospel music.
> I know it's not much, but I'm doing what I can, in this community.
> This is also blindness related, because I'm assisting a blind
> resident, who has finally decided, that she wants to learn Braille!
> Woohoo!
> I've talked about her, on another list.
> We need to do outreaches like this, as blind people, to make people
> more aware of us, and our issues.
> Also, when the sighted individuals see that blindness isn't something
> that keeps us from doing what we want to do, their perceptions of us
> will change!
> I'd like to know what all you guys are doing, to serve your community!
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Darian Smith

"To dream what is possible and to put oneself in service of that dream is the
formula
for a life well lived."

- Dr. Peter Benson


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Sun May 20 20:07:50 2012
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 13:07:50 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
In-Reply-To: <4fb325bb.8457320a.50f5.262d@mx.google.com>
References: <4F9814A3.6050203@gmail.com>
	<646578647CFA476F8DAB20F2CE0C9131@OwnerPC>
	<42ABB58C-FF72-475B-9540-C3813B30CA84@gmail.com>
	<C50F489E11C74A378F4D6C4C18C7DE50@userPC>
	<CAEwUdjPcN08u22VPjq3zuNC29mJVvZRwaM6-EqJBYHkjq+ohZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<000901cd3223$e4fa5e70$aeef1b50$@gmail.com>
	<4fb2c8de.864c320a.6df7.0956@mx.google.com>
	<B402EE4A-79C1-40C7-BC65-30CE97ED51B2@gmail.com>
	<4fb325bb.8457320a.50f5.262d@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjPzzufE5OLisKrmem90iYMWqViROwV4Q6AT97MdUnyr5Q@mail.gmail.com>

True, I was just going to suggest e-mailing  dsmithnfb @gmail.com, as
i am one of the membership chairs, but that works quite well, too.
 Also, if you want to suggest a topic for  the slate, you can e-mail
slate at nabslink.org
 hth
  Darian

On 5/15/12, Karen Anderson <kea.anderson at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm not sure what others have had in mind in terms of these financial
> topics, but as an editor of the Slate I think having an article like that
> could be kind of interesting. I'd love to see something like that written,
> and we'll see what we can do.
>
> If you want to talk to me off list about it, feel free to email me any
> time!
>
> Karen
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Stephanie DeLuca
> Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 5:06 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
>
> Do you have to be a finance expert?  Or could people just write about their
> experience in college in terms of their finances?  Like.writing about what
> saving/budgeting strategies worked for them, etc.
>
> On May 15, 2012, at 4:21 PM, Karen Anderson wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> As one of the editors of the Student Slate, I think these ideas are
>> great!
>> Now, of course, we have to find people who can write the articles. :) If
>> anyone has any suggestions, please email me at kea.anderson at gmail.com.
>> Or,
>> of course, at slate at nabslink.org
>>
>> Thanks for the suggestions, and keep them coming!
>>
>> Karen
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
>> Of Chris Nusbaum
>> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 5:50 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
>>
>> You're asking me? <smile! The email is nabs.membership at gmail.com.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
>> Of Darian Smith
>> Sent: Monday, May 14, 2012 1:47 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
>>
>> Chris:
>>
>> If it's a good  topic for a future membership call, how can people get a
>> hold of  the membership committee?  :)
>>  Best,
>>  Darian
>>
>> On 4/25/12, Rania Ismail CMT <raniaismail04 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I agree.
>>> Rania,
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Jorge Paez
>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 8:05 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
>>>
>>> Certainly.
>>> I think this would be very helpful.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:08 PM, Ashley Bramlett wrote:
>>>
>>>> good idea
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message----- From: Antonio Guimaraes
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 11:13 AM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Student Slate, Finance Edition
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if this is something NABS would want to undertake, but
>>>> here is an idea that came from writing my last message on scholarships.
>>>>
>>>> A comprehensive Student Slate article dealing with this and other
>>>> student issues beyond blindness would be welcome.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps a Student Slate, student finances edition to cover student
>>>> loans, financial aid, fraud, saving, salary negotiation, earning
>>>> expectations? There's a table of contents. NABS just needs to find
>>>> the financial bright minds of the organization to write the stories.
>>>> I'm not one of them. Prefer the arts myself.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I did just sidestep writing a piece, but would love to read such
>>>> an issue.
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Antonio Guimaraes
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>>
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
>>> net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jorge.paez1994%40g
>>> mail.c
>>> om
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gm
>>> ail.co
>>> m
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.
>>> com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Darian Smith
>>
>> "To dream what is possible and to put oneself in service of that dream is
>> the formula for a life well lived."
>>
>> - Dr. Peter Benson
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kea.anderson%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sjhhirst%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kea.anderson%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Darian Smith

"To dream what is possible and to put oneself in service of that dream is the
formula
for a life well lived."

- Dr. Peter Benson


From aec732 at msn.com  Sun May 20 20:16:13 2012
From: aec732 at msn.com (Annemarie Cooke)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 16:16:13 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] To Gloria G. re: Learning ALly
In-Reply-To: <mailman.15.1337533213.21941.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.15.1337533213.21941.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <COL123-W60DF16CA2FECAFC3E4D2E5941C0@phx.gbl>


Hi Gloria, I have asked Kristen Witucki to research your member number and email it to you. Wasn't sure why you are unable to call LA for quicker service???  You can leave a message 24-7: 800-221-4792 Also, what is the name of the book in which you are hearing other numbers? I'd be happy to check it for you.
 
Thanks,
Annemarie Cooke for
Learning Ally
  		 	   		  

From cape.amanda at gmail.com  Sun May 20 21:04:21 2012
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (Amanda)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 17:04:21 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Electronnic magazine subscriptions
Message-ID: <6A0105F4-76E2-40C1-AED7-F2010F024235@gmail.com>

Hi all,
Does anyone know how to subscribe to etext magazines like us, people or in touch?
Let me know.

Amanda

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon May 21 00:33:01 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 20:33:01 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind people doing community service
In-Reply-To: <CAEwUdjOFTtUnLTxGOvutoP263szYuvErdXWRyn+oqaA2PSx9HQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO83KOu96oqZqzGuWniZf+kZLbj2SKxWdTOk1moR1VUpE1J7kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEwUdjOFTtUnLTxGOvutoP263szYuvErdXWRyn+oqaA2PSx9HQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1B08BBB4260944209A3BA12E2073F49B@OwnerPC>

Darian,
Yes, yes. I think most community service is done with groups of regular 
sighted people. If we limit ourselves to doing it with blind friends or a 
blindness group like NFB, that is really limiting. Community service is to 
serve the community wich usually means the broader community. That said, 
I've faced some barriers in getting work so far and I hope its easier for 
others looking. A barrier is that there is just so many volunteers now with 
people getting laid off or looking for work; like me, they figure volunteer 
experience is a means to network and benefit the community while getting 
professional experience.
Another barrier I've found is that the coordinators of nonprofits don't call 
back as they must be real busy or they don't follow up with you probably 
because they know it will say take longer to train you with their database 
or something. I was going to volunteer at the library foundation, a 
nonprofit supporting the public library and the coordinator said all the 
right things and asked me to stuff tote bags for some fundraiser. I did and 
enjoyed it. However she did not follow up with me for more office work even 
though she said the right things in the interview. If I  want to help at a 
school event, I feel marginalized. Sometimes they simply say "oh we got 
things under control" even though I know they could use a hand. For 
instance, at the fundraiser dinner/auction for the global charity project 
club I was in, that is what they said. I helped the club raise money for the 
charity, but not much in the event. Of course, I've had positive experiences 
too. For example I gave out candy during halloween fest at school; that is 
where we had the low income kids come in and trick or treat the dorms. And 
then I helped campus ministry stuff backpacks for catrina school children 
victims. There are more of course, but seems like it can be frustrating to 
find a niche in service work.

Ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: Darian Smith
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 4:03 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind people doing community service

Hi all,
  I know  I have been pretty quite on the list  as of late, but I
figure I should add my two cents.

Obviously, any way you  can use your talents and skills to  better  a
community of any sort is  a very good thing and is considered
"community Service".

This is my personal feeling, but I think it would be great if we
challanged ourselvesa little bit and tried to take our talents and use
them to benifitnot just the blind.
I am a big fan of non-blindness based community service.
  As enough people probably know I dida ten-month service term  in
AmeriCorps.  I think  I have learned so much from that time, and I
reminded myself that in order to be considered a part of society, I
really should do service work shoulder to shoulder with my sighted
peers.
  I learned so much about myself, the country, and the issues we face
in some places.

Just some thoughts, and I would be intereste  in hearing yours.
  Take care,
  Darian

On 5/18/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> I think this counts, but I'm a musician, as everyone here knows.
> I go out to the nursing homes, to entertain the residents, with
> uplifting Gospel music.
> I know it's not much, but I'm doing what I can, in this community.
> This is also blindness related, because I'm assisting a blind
> resident, who has finally decided, that she wants to learn Braille!
> Woohoo!
> I've talked about her, on another list.
> We need to do outreaches like this, as blind people, to make people
> more aware of us, and our issues.
> Also, when the sighted individuals see that blindness isn't something
> that keeps us from doing what we want to do, their perceptions of us
> will change!
> I'd like to know what all you guys are doing, to serve your community!
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Darian Smith

"To dream what is possible and to put oneself in service of that dream is 
the
formula
for a life well lived."

- Dr. Peter Benson

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon May 21 00:46:22 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 19:46:22 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind people doing community service
In-Reply-To: <1B08BBB4260944209A3BA12E2073F49B@OwnerPC>
References: <CAO83KOu96oqZqzGuWniZf+kZLbj2SKxWdTOk1moR1VUpE1J7kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEwUdjOFTtUnLTxGOvutoP263szYuvErdXWRyn+oqaA2PSx9HQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1B08BBB4260944209A3BA12E2073F49B@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvAgfB-YrOb_TX-9W7vkM_y-2NPL5=KFeBk_FG-6jTpiQ@mail.gmail.com>

My community service benefits sighted residents, at the nursing home, as well.
There's only that one blind lady there.
BTW, I'm also interested in hosting a festival, on Labor Day weekend,
to benifit the MDA, because of 2 individuals, who suffer from Muscular
Distrophy.
I've also helped raise money for the hospital, through concerts.
Like I said, I know it isn't much, it's something.
We don't have as many programs, like Darion participated in, here in
Rural Arkansas.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/20/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Darian,
> Yes, yes. I think most community service is done with groups of regular
> sighted people. If we limit ourselves to doing it with blind friends or a
> blindness group like NFB, that is really limiting. Community service is to
> serve the community wich usually means the broader community. That said,
> I've faced some barriers in getting work so far and I hope its easier for
> others looking. A barrier is that there is just so many volunteers now with
>
> people getting laid off or looking for work; like me, they figure volunteer
>
> experience is a means to network and benefit the community while getting
> professional experience.
> Another barrier I've found is that the coordinators of nonprofits don't call
>
> back as they must be real busy or they don't follow up with you probably
> because they know it will say take longer to train you with their database
> or something. I was going to volunteer at the library foundation, a
> nonprofit supporting the public library and the coordinator said all the
> right things and asked me to stuff tote bags for some fundraiser. I did and
>
> enjoyed it. However she did not follow up with me for more office work even
>
> though she said the right things in the interview. If I  want to help at a
> school event, I feel marginalized. Sometimes they simply say "oh we got
> things under control" even though I know they could use a hand. For
> instance, at the fundraiser dinner/auction for the global charity project
> club I was in, that is what they said. I helped the club raise money for the
>
> charity, but not much in the event. Of course, I've had positive experiences
>
> too. For example I gave out candy during halloween fest at school; that is
> where we had the low income kids come in and trick or treat the dorms. And
> then I helped campus ministry stuff backpacks for catrina school children
> victims. There are more of course, but seems like it can be frustrating to
> find a niche in service work.
>
> Ashley
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Darian Smith
> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 4:03 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind people doing community service
>
> Hi all,
>   I know  I have been pretty quite on the list  as of late, but I
> figure I should add my two cents.
>
> Obviously, any way you  can use your talents and skills to  better  a
> community of any sort is  a very good thing and is considered
> "community Service".
>
> This is my personal feeling, but I think it would be great if we
> challanged ourselvesa little bit and tried to take our talents and use
> them to benifitnot just the blind.
> I am a big fan of non-blindness based community service.
>   As enough people probably know I dida ten-month service term  in
> AmeriCorps.  I think  I have learned so much from that time, and I
> reminded myself that in order to be considered a part of society, I
> really should do service work shoulder to shoulder with my sighted
> peers.
>   I learned so much about myself, the country, and the issues we face
> in some places.
>
> Just some thoughts, and I would be intereste  in hearing yours.
>   Take care,
>   Darian
>
> On 5/18/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> I think this counts, but I'm a musician, as everyone here knows.
>> I go out to the nursing homes, to entertain the residents, with
>> uplifting Gospel music.
>> I know it's not much, but I'm doing what I can, in this community.
>> This is also blindness related, because I'm assisting a blind
>> resident, who has finally decided, that she wants to learn Braille!
>> Woohoo!
>> I've talked about her, on another list.
>> We need to do outreaches like this, as blind people, to make people
>> more aware of us, and our issues.
>> Also, when the sighted individuals see that blindness isn't something
>> that keeps us from doing what we want to do, their perceptions of us
>> will change!
>> I'd like to know what all you guys are doing, to serve your community!
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Darian Smith
>
> "To dream what is possible and to put oneself in service of that dream is
> the
> formula
> for a life well lived."
>
> - Dr. Peter Benson
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Mon May 21 01:28:53 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 20:28:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Correction: nabs Convention Help
Message-ID: <4fb99a8c.444aec0a.488a.ffffb440@mx.google.com>

Do you have any volunteers so far?

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com
To: Nfbwvabs at nfbnet.org, Minnesota Students <mn-abs at nfbnet.org>, 
Kentucky Students <nfbkabs at nfbnet.org>, 
massabs at nfbnet.org,cabs-talk <cabs-talk at nfbnet.org>, 
aabs-forum at nfbnet.org, New Jersey Students 
<njabs-talk at nfbnet.org>,mabs <mabs at nfbnet.org>, Florida Students 
<fabs at nfbnet.org>, wabs at nfbwis.org,Utah Students 
<uabs at nfbnet.org>, kansas-blind-students at nfbnet.org,Nebraska 
<nebraska-students at nfbnet.org>, National Association of Blind 
Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,Tennessee Students 
<tabs at nfbnet.org>, Illinois Students <iabs-talk at nfbnet.org>, 
Nyabs <Nyabs at nfbnet.org>,Oabs at nfbnet.org, New Hampshire Students 
<new-hampshire-students at nfbnet.org>, Louisiana Students 
<la-students at nfbnet.org>, New Mexico Association of Blind 
Students <nmabs at nfbnet.org>,Gabs at nfbnet.org, Virginia Students 
<vabs at nfbnet.org>, North Carolina Students <ncabs at nfbnet.org>, 
mi-abs at nfbnet.org, List for NABS State Presidents 
<nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org>,cabs at nfbnet.org, Texas Association 
of Blind Students <txabs at nfbnet.org>,mdabs <mdabs at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Sun, 20 May 2012 12:16:39 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Correction: nabs Convention Help

Hi all,

 I    neglected to  ask you all to include
a phone number to be reached at if you are  planning on helping 
us out
at convention.
  so to Recap...

1. if you are interested in helping out, please conrtact me at
dsmithnfb at gmail.com

2.  let me know where you  would like to help ( see prior e-mail 
with
the subject "You know it's near time for National Convention 
when...
" )

3.  please include phone  number to where you can be reached.
Thanks so much!
  Darian
--
Darian Smith

"To dream what is possible and to put oneself in service of that 
dream is the
formula
for a life well lived."

- Dr. Peter Benson

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
r%40gmail.com


From jordyn2493 at gmail.com  Mon May 21 01:53:35 2012
From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 21:53:35 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Math Conference Call
Message-ID: <4FB9A01F.4080501@gmail.com>

Hey fellow students,
     I am the person who was the guest speaker on the math call tonight. 
I just wanted to provide you with my email address:
jordyn2493 at gmail.com
Please feel free to email me with any math questions you may have. I am 
more than happy to talk with any of you!
Thank you to the membership committee for having me on the call and 
thank you to those who offered your thoughts and opinions relating to 
math! It was great talking to you guys tonight!
Jordyn



From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com  Mon May 21 02:00:01 2012
From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (The Nabs Membership Committee)
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 19:00:01 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [nabs-l] New Nabs Conference Call Is Available For Download
Message-ID: <20120521020001.A86F319CC73@praecipua.dreamhost.com>


Greetings!
This is an automatic notification to let you know that our latest conference call has been uploaded, and is now ready for you to download.

Title: The Nabs Membership Call For May 2012
Description: One subject that many blind people have been known to fear taking is math. Between algebra, geometry, calculous, etc, the idea of drawing diagrams, proving that two angles have equal sides, and all of that stuff is enough to give one more problems than those found in the math book.
But before completely giving up hope on the values of math, listen to tonight's Nabs call. Tonight, the subject of math is tackled. Learn what some have done to get through a math class, and maybe you too can conquer your fear of math as others have done. Enjoy this presentation from the Nabs membership committee on solving the equation of how to succeed in math. There are things to factor in, but don't let that foil your plans to try out a math class.



You can download the show directly at:
http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/audio/presentations/May2012Call.mp3

Alternatively you can visit the archive page at:
http://www.nabslinkaudio.org/audio/presentations
to hear some of the other calls we've done.
Best regards,
David Dunphy And The Nabs Membership Committee
http://www.nabslinkaudio.org
http://www.nabslink.org


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Mon May 21 12:39:41 2012
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (dsmithnfb at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 05:39:41 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Math Conference Call
In-Reply-To: <4FB9A01F.4080501@gmail.com>
References: <4FB9A01F.4080501@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CFC0DB43-6F9E-4856-B325-FE0972B11E62@gmail.com>

Thank you, Jordyn We appreciated your thoughts, and expirience.  It was great!
  Thank you to the many who contributed to the math call  
 It was   very educational!

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2012, at 6:53 PM, Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey fellow students,
>    I am the person who was the guest speaker on the math call tonight. I just wanted to provide you with my email address:
> jordyn2493 at gmail.com
> Please feel free to email me with any math questions you may have. I am more than happy to talk with any of you!
> Thank you to the membership committee for having me on the call and thank you to those who offered your thoughts and opinions relating to math! It was great talking to you guys tonight!
> Jordyn
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.comThank you, Jo


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Mon May 21 12:52:28 2012
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (dsmithnfb at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 05:52:28 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind people doing community service
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOvAgfB-YrOb_TX-9W7vkM_y-2NPL5=KFeBk_FG-6jTpiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO83KOu96oqZqzGuWniZf+kZLbj2SKxWdTOk1moR1VUpE1J7kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAEwUdjOFTtUnLTxGOvutoP263szYuvErdXWRyn+oqaA2PSx9HQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<1B08BBB4260944209A3BA12E2073F49B@OwnerPC>
	<CAO83KOvAgfB-YrOb_TX-9W7vkM_y-2NPL5=KFeBk_FG-6jTpiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2882F632-97E9-424B-860D-AD59C2DD945D@gmail.com>

Joshua ,
  I am sure there are programs  in your area  that you can get involved   with.  I think you have to look at  things that interest you and go from there.  If it is something that you want to do, but you don't know if a blind person has done it ask around or just kind of  figure it out as you go. 
 One good resource is www.serve.gov. There you can look at oppertunities in your local area and get involved there.  
  I hope this helps,
  Darian 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2012, at 5:46 PM, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:

> My community service benefits sighted residents, at the nursing home, as well.
> There's only that one blind lady there.
> BTW, I'm also interested in hosting a festival, on Labor Day weekend,
> to benifit the MDA, because of 2 individuals, who suffer from Muscular
> Distrophy.
> I've also helped raise money for the hospital, through concerts.
> Like I said, I know it isn't much, it's something.
> We don't have as many programs, like Darion participated in, here in
> Rural Arkansas.
> Blessings, Joshua
> 
> On 5/20/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Darian,
>> Yes, yes. I think most community service is done with groups of regular
>> sighted people. If we limit ourselves to doing it with blind friends or a
>> blindness group like NFB, that is really limiting. Community service is to
>> serve the community wich usually means the broader community. That said,
>> I've faced some barriers in getting work so far and I hope its easier for
>> others looking. A barrier is that there is just so many volunteers now with
>> 
>> people getting laid off or looking for work; like me, they figure volunteer
>> 
>> experience is a means to network and benefit the community while getting
>> professional experience.
>> Another barrier I've found is that the coordinators of nonprofits don't call
>> 
>> back as they must be real busy or they don't follow up with you probably
>> because they know it will say take longer to train you with their database
>> or something. I was going to volunteer at the library foundation, a
>> nonprofit supporting the public library and the coordinator said all the
>> right things and asked me to stuff tote bags for some fundraiser. I did and
>> 
>> enjoyed it. However she did not follow up with me for more office work even
>> 
>> though she said the right things in the interview. If I  want to help at a
>> school event, I feel marginalized. Sometimes they simply say "oh we got
>> things under control" even though I know they could use a hand. For
>> instance, at the fundraiser dinner/auction for the global charity project
>> club I was in, that is what they said. I helped the club raise money for the
>> 
>> charity, but not much in the event. Of course, I've had positive experiences
>> 
>> too. For example I gave out candy during halloween fest at school; that is
>> where we had the low income kids come in and trick or treat the dorms. And
>> then I helped campus ministry stuff backpacks for catrina school children
>> victims. There are more of course, but seems like it can be frustrating to
>> find a niche in service work.
>> 
>> Ashley
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Darian Smith
>> Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 4:03 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind people doing community service
>> 
>> Hi all,
>>  I know  I have been pretty quite on the list  as of late, but I
>> figure I should add my two cents.
>> 
>> Obviously, any way you  can use your talents and skills to  better  a
>> community of any sort is  a very good thing and is considered
>> "community Service".
>> 
>> This is my personal feeling, but I think it would be great if we
>> challanged ourselvesa little bit and tried to take our talents and use
>> them to benifitnot just the blind.
>> I am a big fan of non-blindness based community service.
>>  As enough people probably know I dida ten-month service term  in
>> AmeriCorps.  I think  I have learned so much from that time, and I
>> reminded myself that in order to be considered a part of society, I
>> really should do service work shoulder to shoulder with my sighted
>> peers.
>>  I learned so much about myself, the country, and the issues we face
>> in some places.
>> 
>> Just some thoughts, and I would be intereste  in hearing yours.
>>  Take care,
>>  Darian
>> 
>> On 5/18/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> I think this counts, but I'm a musician, as everyone here knows.
>>> I go out to the nursing homes, to entertain the residents, with
>>> uplifting Gospel music.
>>> I know it's not much, but I'm doing what I can, in this community.
>>> This is also blindness related, because I'm assisting a blind
>>> resident, who has finally decided, that she wants to learn Braille!
>>> Woohoo!
>>> I've talked about her, on another list.
>>> We need to do outreaches like this, as blind people, to make people
>>> more aware of us, and our issues.
>>> Also, when the sighted individuals see that blindness isn't something
>>> that keeps us from doing what we want to do, their perceptions of us
>>> will change!
>>> I'd like to know what all you guys are doing, to serve your community!
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Darian Smith
>> 
>> "To dream what is possible and to put oneself in service of that dream is
>> the
>> formula
>> for a life well lived."
>> 
>> - Dr. Peter Benson
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Mon May 21 12:55:54 2012
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (dsmithnfb at gmail.com)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 05:55:54 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Correction: nabs Convention Help
In-Reply-To: <4fb99a8c.444aec0a.488a.ffffb440@mx.google.com>
References: <4fb99a8c.444aec0a.488a.ffffb440@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <06C3B14E-ED50-4860-8CD1-1482C5310355@gmail.com>

Hello,
  it is probably best to contact directly and off-list.  I don't read all responces sent as replies  to list serves for understandable reasons.
 So, if you are interested contact me off-list and we'll see what we can match you up with!
  
  Thanks!
  Darian

Sent from my iPhone

On May 20, 2012, at 6:28 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:

> Do you have any volunteers so far?
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com
> To: Nfbwvabs at nfbnet.org, Minnesota Students <mn-abs at nfbnet.org>, Kentucky Students <nfbkabs at nfbnet.org>, massabs at nfbnet.org,cabs-talk <cabs-talk at nfbnet.org>, aabs-forum at nfbnet.org, New Jersey Students <njabs-talk at nfbnet.org>,mabs <mabs at nfbnet.org>, Florida Students <fabs at nfbnet.org>, wabs at nfbwis.org,Utah Students <uabs at nfbnet.org>, kansas-blind-students at nfbnet.org,Nebraska <nebraska-students at nfbnet.org>, National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,Tennessee Students <tabs at nfbnet.org>, Illinois Students <iabs-talk at nfbnet.org>, Nyabs <Nyabs at nfbnet.org>,Oabs at nfbnet.org, New Hampshire Students <new-hampshire-students at nfbnet.org>, Louisiana Students <la-students at nfbnet.org>, New Mexico Association of Blind Students <nmabs at nfbnet.org>,Gabs at nfbnet.org, Virginia Students <vabs at nfbnet.org>, North Carolina Students <ncabs at nfbnet.org>, mi-abs at nfbnet.org, List for NABS State Presidents <nabs-presidents at nfbnet.org>,cabs at nfbnet.org, Texas Association of Blind Students <txabs at nfbnet.org>,mdabs <mdabs at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Sun, 20 May 2012 12:16:39 -0700
> Subject: [nabs-l] Correction: nabs Convention Help
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I    neglected to  ask you all to include
> a phone number to be reached at if you are  planning on helping us out
> at convention.
> so to Recap...
> 
> 1. if you are interested in helping out, please conrtact me at
> dsmithnfb at gmail.com
> 
> 2.  let me know where you  would like to help ( see prior e-mail with
> the subject "You know it's near time for National Convention when...
> " )
> 
> 3.  please include phone  number to where you can be reached.
> Thanks so much!
> Darian
> --
> Darian Smith
> 
> "To dream what is possible and to put oneself in service of that dream is the
> formula
> for a life well lived."
> 
> - Dr. Peter Benson
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com


From aec732 at msn.com  Mon May 21 17:19:08 2012
From: aec732 at msn.com (Annemarie Cooke)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 13:19:08 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] regarding Learning Ally DAISY books and more
In-Reply-To: <mailman.23.1337619615.9195.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
References: <mailman.23.1337619615.9195.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <COL123-W447990D1DD173AE64C6CFE941D0@phx.gbl>


Hi Gloria and all:
 
Learning Ally stopped using SSNs years ago for the ovbvious security concerns. If you forget your password or need to create one, start out atthe website, www.learningally.org
 
If you would like to speak to a human, leave a message after 445 p.m. Eastern and before 8:30 a.m. Eastern at 1-800-221-4792. Otherwise, if you call M-F between those times, you can talk live.
 
And you also can e-mail Kristen Witucki in Tech Support/Member Setrvices, kwitucki at learningally.org
Gloria, Kristen will be  emailing you your info.
 
Please let us know if you need further assistance.
 
See you at convention!
Annemarie Cooke
for Learning Ally 		 	   		  

From amylsabo at comcast.net  Mon May 21 19:04:15 2012
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 13:04:15 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] roommates for convention
In-Reply-To: <CAAurf=feMe2Se4iWbaOO10vgjB2pgzzcsrYuyHDb8kdOk+g5mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAurf=feMe2Se4iWbaOO10vgjB2pgzzcsrYuyHDb8kdOk+g5mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <031601cd3784$90d596a0$b280c3e0$@comcast.net>

Hello david,

I too am trying to get to convention this summer but

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Davidugs,
amy, becca won't be coming at all due to summer school and, also with
getting a new puppy too. I will contact you off list about this.

Thanks again and, good luck in finding a roommate.



h Dunphy
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] roommates for convention

Hi All!
I'm trying really hard to get to convention this year in Dallas. Want to do
the nabs meeting again, do performing arts stuff too, etc.
If anyone is needing/wanting a roommate for convention and wants to talk,
email me at daviddunphy at audioaccessfm.com Thanks.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From djdrocks4ever at gmail.com  Mon May 21 21:16:56 2012
From: djdrocks4ever at gmail.com (David Dunphy)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 17:16:56 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Put A Little Music In Your Life With Tonight's Djd Invasion
Message-ID: <CAAurf=cZnaFFntt1jw+bOnwAK8V8Q7SKq=SfvTqLDXayrT2Hsw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Everyone!
Welcome to what could be a musical Monday in your world. That will
depend on whether or not you plan on tuneing in to Audio Access FM for
The Djd Invasion.
If you plan on just watching tv, movies, or sporting events, then
you're not going to get a whole lot of music in your diet.
However, if music and good humor are what you seek, then be there at 8
PM eastern on Audio Access FM for tonight's Djd Invasion.
An upbeat mix of pop rock and country, and a second Judge Judy clip of
the month are just some of the things that will make this Monday night
a happy one for you.
And of course, it wouldn't be a show without your requests!
You can make them
By aol or msn messengers at
interact at audioaccessfm.com
Via email at
daviddunphy at audioaccessfm.com
Via skype at
audio.accessfm
Vua telephone at
516 324 2314
or via twitter at
audioaccessfm
or my personal twitter at
djdrocks

And if you want to hear the music and audio cranked up through your
speakers, you can listen in to tonight's stream by going to
http://www.audioaccessfm.com/broadband.php
Hope you can be there, it would be awesome to have you part of my
world this evening!

>From David Dunphy, host of The Djd Invasion Every Monday Night On
Audio Access FM
http://www.audioaccessfm.com
and ACB Radio Interactive
http://interactive.acbradio.org


From pgradioman at hotmail.com  Mon May 21 21:41:28 2012
From: pgradioman at hotmail.com (Preston Gaylor)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 16:41:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] roommates for convention
In-Reply-To: <031601cd3784$90d596a0$b280c3e0$@comcast.net>
References: <CAAurf=feMe2Se4iWbaOO10vgjB2pgzzcsrYuyHDb8kdOk+g5mw@mail.gmail.com>,
	<031601cd3784$90d596a0$b280c3e0$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BLU158-W7BED31584E4F411FE1C2FCB1D0@phx.gbl>


Hi david! Great to hear from you agian! I hope to go to Dallas this summer, but it looks like I'm going on a trip to Charleston, SC at the end of June. Just thought I let you know, talk to you tonight on your awesome radio program! Preston
 

> From: amylsabo at comcast.net
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 13:04:15 -0600
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] roommates for convention
> 
> Hello david,
> 
> I too am trying to get to convention this summer but
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Davidugs,
> amy, becca won't be coming at all due to summer school and, also with
> getting a new puppy too. I will contact you off list about this.
> 
> Thanks again and, good luck in finding a roommate.
> 
> 
> 
> h Dunphy
> Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 10:01 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] roommates for convention
> 
> Hi All!
> I'm trying really hard to get to convention this year in Dallas. Want to do
> the nabs meeting again, do performing arts stuff too, etc.
> If anyone is needing/wanting a roommate for convention and wants to talk,
> email me at daviddunphy at audioaccessfm.com Thanks.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amylsabo%40comcast.net
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pgradioman%40hotmail.com
 		 	   		  

From dandrews at visi.com  Tue May 22 01:38:04 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 20:38:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] ID Mate Summit Savings
Message-ID: <auto-000061344400@mailfront4.g2host.com>


From: Dave Bode [mailto:dbode at envisionamerica.com]
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 4:02 PM
Subject: Summit Savings

THEY ARE GOING,GOING and almost GONE!!!!!!!

Dear friends,

  Would you please send this out to all of your 
friends. I hope that all who have wanted a Summit 
can now be able to afford it. In this economy it gets harder
and harder to afford the technology So many need, 
I hope this will help. Little money down and no 
interest is music to my ears. Please feel free to call
me or send me an email.
dbode at envisionamerica.com

This year, En-Vision America is celebrating our 
Sweet 16th anniversary, and to celebrate, we are 
making your wishes come true with an incredibly awesome
gift!

During the months of May and June, you can get 
the i.d. mate Summit with unprecedented savings 
and benefits: No interest and a low $80 payment for 16 months!
Those are numbers that everyone can afford! If 
you've been waiting to buy, now is the time to do it!

To take advantage of this limited time offer, 
just call 800-890-1180 to place your order. Be 
sure to mention coupon code “Summit Savings” and as an added
bonus, you'll also receive free shipping and free database updates for life!

This is a blowout special – and only available 
while supplies last. We will be introducing a new 
i.d. mate product later this summer, and we need to make
some room on the shelves. You will not find a 
better deal anywhere else, and this amazing 
payment plan will not be available for the new unit.

Call 800-890-1180 today and ask for your “Summit Savings”!

David Bode

Regional Sales Manager

En-Vision America, Inc.

1845 Hovey Ave.

Normal, IL  61761

Phone 800-890-1180 ext.155

Fax 309-452-3643

http://www.envisionamerica.com   



From dandrews at visi.com  Tue May 22 02:29:10 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 21 May 2012 21:29:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Quick vote will help Seedlings Braille Books!
Message-ID: <auto-000061347588@mailfront4.g2host.com>


>
>Great news for the cause of Braille Literacy!:
>
>1. Seedlings Braille Books for Children is eligible for a $25,000 
>grant from Art Van (a Michigan furniture company) if we get enough votes; and
>2. It's much easier to help this year: You only need to vote once 
>per email address by 5-31 rather than having to vote everyday!
>
>Dates for voting: Now through May 31st
>Place: http://artvancharitychallenge.com/
>How: Go to their site, click on VOTE, register, and follow the 
>instructions! Remember, you can only vote once per email address.
>
>Additional ways to help: Encourage others to vote by sending this 
>information to your friends, family, coworkers, listservs, and social media.
>
>We are up against some really large organizations, but last year ... 
>thanks everyone's help and support ... we were able to win a $15,000 
>grant (and we used it to make hundreds of braille books)! We thank 
>you in advance for your support again this year!
>
>   Best wishes,
>   Debra Bonde, Director
>   Seedlings Braille Books for Children
>   www.seedlings.org
>   800-777-8552
>   734-427-8552 fax
>   Follow on Twitter: @SeedlingsBrlBks
>
>"Placing a book in a child's hands is like planting a seed ..."
>



From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Tue May 22 08:16:28 2012
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 01:16:28 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: NOPBC Style Show (re-post with atatchment)
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjM+5nt-mRszjJLnGSf1jPB7SfyFVXzU8jSJg+kQN0kYtg@mail.gmail.com>

*atatchment Alert!*
I have  been asked to pass along the following and urge you to pass
this along to people in your  state student  divisions..
 It would be wonderful if we stepped up and helped out our friends in
the parent division!

 Regards,
 Darian Smith, 2nd Vice- President
National Association of Blind Students


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Kim Cunningham <kim at gulfimagesphoto.com>
Date: Sun, 20 May 2012 11:52:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: NOPBC Style Show
To: "dsmithnfb at gmail.com" <dsmithnfb at gmail.com>
Cc: Carol Castellano <carol_castellano at verizon.net>, Pamela and Steve
Gebert <spgebert at alaska.net>, Sandra Oliver <sandra.oliver at ey.com>,
Lety Sturgill <letonflor at yahoo.com>

Good afternoon Darian,
My name is Kim Cunningham. I am the president of Texas Parents of
Blind Children. I have been asked to assist with hosting the NOPBC
Style Show during the NFB National Convention in Dallas this summer.
We originally opened enrollment to our young blind and visually
impaired children, however we didn't have as many apply as had hoped.
I currently only have 7 participants and would like to have around 30.
We are hoping our college aged students might be interested and help
to make this show a success.
I would like to know if you would post the attached invitation on the
NABS list serv and also request for the individual states to send it
to their student divisions. Please let me know if you are able to do
this for me.
Regards,
Kim Cunningham


-- 
Darian Smith

"To dream what is possible and to put oneself in service of that dream is the
formula
for a life well lived."

- Dr. Peter Benson
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From jordyn2493 at gmail.com  Tue May 22 11:36:53 2012
From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 07:36:53 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
Message-ID: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>

Hey Guys,
I'm sure this question has been posted before, but I'm wondering which 
calculators you all use? I have the Audio Graphing Calculator and the 
Scientific calculator on my PAC Mate, but I'm looking into the Orion 
TI-36x Scientific Calculator. I'm a computer science major so will need 
to take physics, Calculus 3, and stats. What do you all think of this 
calculator? Is it fine for a college student to use, or is it not 
advanced enough? Are their any other calculators you recommend?
Thanks!
Jordyn


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue May 22 11:43:07 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 06:43:07 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com>

I used that Orion calculator, that you are interested in, and I didn't
have any issues with it, so I'd recommend it.
Woohoo!
I'm a fellow Pac Mate user!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/22/12, Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Guys,
> I'm sure this question has been posted before, but I'm wondering which
> calculators you all use? I have the Audio Graphing Calculator and the
> Scientific calculator on my PAC Mate, but I'm looking into the Orion
> TI-36x Scientific Calculator. I'm a computer science major so will need
> to take physics, Calculus 3, and stats. What do you all think of this
> calculator? Is it fine for a college student to use, or is it not
> advanced enough? Are their any other calculators you recommend?
> Thanks!
> Jordyn
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From tinadt at sbcglobal.net  Tue May 22 16:30:42 2012
From: tinadt at sbcglobal.net (Tina Thomas)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 09:30:42 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] free speech software
Message-ID: <00a501cd3838$549be7c0$fdd3b740$@net>

Hello NABS community- 
I have a friend who is looking for frees speech software for her netbook.
She is not able to purchase JFW or Window eyes at this time. Any information
you can provide me with would be greatly appreciated. 
Thanks, 
Tina    




From readtobuild at gmail.com  Tue May 22 16:45:48 2012
From: readtobuild at gmail.com (Lanie)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 11:45:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] free speech software
Message-ID: <4fbbc2c1.28d4320a.601f.5878@mx.google.com>

NVDA is a great screen reader.  You can check it out 
athttp://www.nvda-project.org/

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tina Thomas" <tinadt at sbcglobal.net
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 22 May 2012 09:30:42 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] free speech software

Hello NABS community-
I have a friend who is looking for frees speech software for her 
netbook.
She is not able to purchase JFW or Window eyes at this time.  Any 
information
you can provide me with would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Tina



_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/readtobuild%4
0gmail.com


From brandonboy13 at comcast.net  Tue May 22 16:48:37 2012
From: brandonboy13 at comcast.net (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 09:48:37 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] free speech software
In-Reply-To: <00a501cd3838$549be7c0$fdd3b740$@net>
References: <00a501cd3838$549be7c0$fdd3b740$@net>
Message-ID: <9E38A321B54B45BA8E2541F1C214A915@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
There is a multitude of free screen readers out there. System access and 
NVDA are two of the more popular kinds of screen readers. Both have lots of 
functionality that in many cases is at least comparable to Jaws.
If she's getting a Mac book, there is no need for an extra screen reader as 
voiceover is already installed. If she is getting a Google notebook, cromvox 
is available, but I think anyone would be much happier with System access or 
NVDA.
If she's getting a Linux system that's another story and I advise she get on 
a blind programming list for that.
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Tina Thomas
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 9:30 AM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: [nabs-l] free speech software

Hello NABS community-
I have a friend who is looking for frees speech software for her netbook.
She is not able to purchase JFW or Window eyes at this time. Any information
you can provide me with would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Tina



_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonboy13%40comcast.net 



From isaiah5719 at mchsi.com  Tue May 22 17:21:43 2012
From: isaiah5719 at mchsi.com (Loren)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 12:21:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com>

I don't know how good it is, but there is also one on the braille note or
the apex.  

Loren 


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 6:43 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators

I used that Orion calculator, that you are interested in, and I didn't have
any issues with it, so I'd recommend it.
Woohoo!
I'm a fellow Pac Mate user!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/22/12, Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Guys,
> I'm sure this question has been posted before, but I'm wondering which 
> calculators you all use? I have the Audio Graphing Calculator and the 
> Scientific calculator on my PAC Mate, but I'm looking into the Orion 
> TI-36x Scientific Calculator. I'm a computer science major so will 
> need to take physics, Calculus 3, and stats. What do you all think of 
> this calculator? Is it fine for a college student to use, or is it not 
> advanced enough? Are their any other calculators you recommend?
> Thanks!
> Jordyn
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
> ents.pccua.edu
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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From codyjbair at yahoo.com  Tue May 22 17:23:40 2012
From: codyjbair at yahoo.com (Cody Bair)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 10:23:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1337707420.69663.YahooMailClassic@web110714.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>


Jordyn,
I have used the TI-36 for High School Stats, as well as college Algebra and Calc 1 and am planning to use it in College stats next semester. So far I have had no problems with it not being advanced enough.

Cody

--- On Tue, 5/22/12, Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
> To: "NabsLink" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Date: Tuesday, May 22, 2012, 5:36 AM
> Hey Guys,
> I'm sure this question has been posted before, but I'm
> wondering which calculators you all use? I have the Audio
> Graphing Calculator and the Scientific calculator on my PAC
> Mate, but I'm looking into the Orion TI-36x Scientific
> Calculator. I'm a computer science major so will need to
> take physics, Calculus 3, and stats. What do you all think
> of this calculator? Is it fine for a college student to use,
> or is it not advanced enough? Are their any other
> calculators you recommend?
> Thanks!
> Jordyn
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
> info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/codyjbair%40yahoo.com
> 


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Tue May 22 17:34:00 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 12:34:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] free speech software
In-Reply-To: <9E38A321B54B45BA8E2541F1C214A915@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <00a501cd3838$549be7c0$fdd3b740$@net>
	<9E38A321B54B45BA8E2541F1C214A915@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOt2xBM9+beqmd5=hf0PEFP+siwCBsq83u6F9dP5g6aOKw@mail.gmail.com>

Lanie, and Brandon hit the nail, right on the head!
I was going to say something about NVDA!
I heard, though, that they're talking about charging for NVDA, due to
lack of funding.
Is that true?
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/22/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonboy13 at comcast.net> wrote:
> Hello,
> There is a multitude of free screen readers out there. System access and
> NVDA are two of the more popular kinds of screen readers. Both have lots of
>
> functionality that in many cases is at least comparable to Jaws.
> If she's getting a Mac book, there is no need for an extra screen reader as
>
> voiceover is already installed. If she is getting a Google notebook, cromvox
>
> is available, but I think anyone would be much happier with System access or
>
> NVDA.
> If she's getting a Linux system that's another story and I advise she get on
>
> a blind programming list for that.
> Thank you,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tina Thomas
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 9:30 AM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] free speech software
>
> Hello NABS community-
> I have a friend who is looking for frees speech software for her netbook.
> She is not able to purchase JFW or Window eyes at this time. Any
> information
> you can provide me with would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Tina
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonboy13%40comcast.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From coasterfreak88 at mac.com  Tue May 22 19:05:15 2012
From: coasterfreak88 at mac.com (John Moore)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 14:05:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D88D6A5A-8738-4888-8FDA-3C1EF0C330B0@mac.com>

I think the TI36X is the way to go. I have been using mine for every college math class I have/ I do not have a specific math reqeuirement so I'm taking a class called Survey of Mathematics, which is a general interest course that covers a little bit of everything. I think this calculator is the best one.


From steve.jacobson at visi.com  Tue May 22 20:11:36 2012
From: steve.jacobson at visi.com (Steve Jacobson)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 15:11:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <D88D6A5A-8738-4888-8FDA-3C1EF0C330B0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000007364085@mailback4.g2host.com>

Please explain what makes this calculator good in terms of accessibility from your perspective.

Best regards,

Steve Jacobson

On Tue, 22 May 2012 14:05:15 -0500, John Moore wrote:

>I think the TI36X is the way to go. I have been using mine for every college math class I have/ I do not 
have a specific math reqeuirement so I'm taking a class called Survey of Mathematics, which is a general 
interest course that covers a little bit of everything. I think this calculator is the best one.

>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/steve.jacobson%40visi.com






From coasterfreak88 at mac.com  Tue May 22 21:22:32 2012
From: coasterfreak88 at mac.com (John Moore)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 16:22:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <auto-000007364085@mailback4.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000007364085@mailback4.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <D6DC8C9D-919C-43C3-BAE9-C107928A8BA2@mac.com>

The biggest thing for me is that every function talks. Orbit Research took the existing TI36 calculator from Texas Instruments and made it talk. A math teacher who is familiar with the standard TI36 can teach a blind student to use the talking version; it is essentially the same calculator.


From dandrews at visi.com  Tue May 22 21:25:55 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 16:25:55 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] free speech software
In-Reply-To: <00a501cd3838$549be7c0$fdd3b740$@net>
References: <00a501cd3838$549be7c0$fdd3b740$@net>
Message-ID: <4FBC0463.6040808@visi.com>

Try NVDA, it is free.  You can Google it.

Dave



On 5/22/2012 11:30 AM, Tina Thomas wrote:
> Hello NABS community-
> I have a friend who is looking for frees speech software for her netbook.
> She is not able to purchase JFW or Window eyes at this time. Any information
> you can provide me with would be greatly appreciated.
> Thanks,
> Tina
>
>
>

-- 
Follow me on Twitter @dandrews920



From PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu  Tue May 22 22:13:16 2012
From: PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu (Justin Salisbury)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 22:13:16 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
Message-ID: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD475@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Philosophy Discussion Time

I just caught this story on the local news, and I want to hear people's opinions of it.  There are many different versions of this news story, but here's a link to a page with a video and text article:

http://wearecentralpa.com/fulltext-healthcast?nxd_id=369932

Feel free to find other versions of this story using a simple search engine.

When I heard that Mark couldn't wait for the day that he could navigate his own home independently with a device, I thought to myself "hey, I already have one of those devices.  It's called a cane!"

In my reading on the story, I get the impression that researchers think that this device is important because we blind people are oblivious to our surroundings and need some way to get information about them.  I think this is cool research for the sake of research, but I see absolutely no practical need for the device.  With the proper skills and training, we can independently navigate our own surroundings.  I further wonder if maybe these uneducated or incorrectly educated researchers simply don't know about the techniques we blind people can use to independently navigate our surroundings or if they view them as inferior and think we should be trying to operate as closely to sighted people as we can.

What does everyone on the list think?

Justin Salisbury
President
North Carolina Association of Blind Students


Justin M. Salisbury
Class of 2012
B.A. in Mathematics
East Carolina University
president at alumni.ecu.edu

“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD


From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com  Tue May 22 22:33:20 2012
From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 18:33:20 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD475@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD475@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAN+-G_CazDkVCcQbqMuYX=irCeKfkG2xop1eWVipAQOFrH4cjQ@mail.gmail.com>

Justin,
If this is what I think it is, then I've heard about it before. I
think the idea is to give blind people more information along with
what we already get on our own. I think it's interesting research too,
but I don't think the people who are behind it are uneducated or
wrong. At least they're stepping up and trying something, as opposed
to other people who would just sit back. Furthermore, I'm often
curious about what else is out there that I might not be picking up
on. This device, if it does all that this article claims, would
probably help with subtle details that we might not ordinarily notice.
In the future, it's possible that this device would help blind people
to read signs that either were far away or didn't have Braille. As of
now, I can guarantee that there are still bugs to work out, but I
think this is really interesting and I hope it continues to improve
over time. I look at this thing as similar to a talking GPS unit for
the blind. True, we CAN get by just fine without one, but WITH one,
you get more information than without.
Patrick

On 5/22/12, Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu> wrote:
> Philosophy Discussion Time
>
> I just caught this story on the local news, and I want to hear people's
> opinions of it.  There are many different versions of this news story, but
> here's a link to a page with a video and text article:
>
> http://wearecentralpa.com/fulltext-healthcast?nxd_id=369932
>
> Feel free to find other versions of this story using a simple search
> engine.
>
> When I heard that Mark couldn't wait for the day that he could navigate his
> own home independently with a device, I thought to myself "hey, I already
> have one of those devices.  It's called a cane!"
>
> In my reading on the story, I get the impression that researchers think that
> this device is important because we blind people are oblivious to our
> surroundings and need some way to get information about them.  I think this
> is cool research for the sake of research, but I see absolutely no practical
> need for the device.  With the proper skills and training, we can
> independently navigate our own surroundings.  I further wonder if maybe
> these uneducated or incorrectly educated researchers simply don't know about
> the techniques we blind people can use to independently navigate our
> surroundings or if they view them as inferior and think we should be trying
> to operate as closely to sighted people as we can.
>
> What does everyone on the list think?
>
> Justin Salisbury
> President
> North Carolina Association of Blind Students
>
>
> Justin M. Salisbury
> Class of 2012
> B.A. in Mathematics
> East Carolina University
> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>
> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue May 22 22:56:19 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 18:56:19 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Electronnic magazine subscriptions
Message-ID: <4fbc19a6.0212e00a.410a.ffff9e27@mx.google.com>

Amanda,

Many of these magazines are available on NFB Newsline, so if you 
are subscribed to Newsline, you can access these magazines 
through that service.  If you are not already a Newsline 
subscriber, I encourage you to subscribe.  To subscribe to 
Newsline, you can either call the Newsline office at 866-504-7300 
or visit www.nfbnewsline.org.  By the way, if you would like to 
read these magazines online instead of on the phone, Newsline has 
a way to do that.  You can either use Web News On Demand at 
www.nfbnewslineonline.org, or you can sign up for the Newsline 
email service by going to the above Web site.  If you choose to 
subscribe via email, Newsline will send you a copy of each 
newspaper in your email favorites list in DAISY format, which you 
can read on your computer, on a DTB player which supports DAISY 
books, such as the Victor Reader Stream, or on a Braille 
notetaker which supports DAISY.  If you choose to read the 
magazines using Web News On Demand, you would just use the NFB 
Newsline Online Web site.

Bookshare could also work, if you are a member.  Once you have 
logged into your account and are on your Bookshare home page, 
click on Newspapers and Magazines.  From that page, you can look 
for and select the magazine you want, then download it in either 
DAISY or BRF format.

Finally, you can download many magazines from NLS BARD.  I'm not 
sure how to subscribe to BARD magazines, or if in fact you can 
subscribe to automatically receive BARD magazines in a digital 
format.  For more information about that, you could probably 
contact your state's NLS library or you could check out the BARD 
Web site at nlsbard.loc.gov or the main NLS site, 
www.loc.gov/nls.

Hope this helps,

Chris

----- Original Message -----
From: Amanda <cape.amanda at gmail.com
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Sun, 20 May 2012 17:04:21 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Electronnic magazine subscriptions

Hi all,
Does anyone know how to subscribe to etext magazines like us, 
people or in touch?
Let me know.

Amanda
_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue May 22 22:56:22 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 18:56:22 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Blind people doing community service
Message-ID: <4fbc19a8.0212e00a.410a.ffff9e2b@mx.google.com>

Darian,

I agree completely! While I still think it is very important for 
us to use our tallents and skills to benefit the blind, both 
through the NFB and through other means, I also agree with you 
that it is also important to use those same tallents, and skills 
to benefit the community at large.  I personally do a lot of this 
kind of work through my church.  For example, I recently helped 
our church's Sunday school program by working our table at a 
local festival.  I also help the local Lions club with their golf 
tournament, which I guess indirectly helps the blind, although 
they do a lot more than blindness-related work.

 I believe this kind of community service (that is, 
non-blindness-related community service) is important not only 
because it is a good thing to do volunteer work to benefit your 
community, but it also shows the capability of blind people to do 
volunteer work.  People don't expect to see blind people out 
there independently helping their communities by participating in 
the same volunteer activities that they participate in.  So, I 
think it is also a great opportunity for us to educate the public 
by example.

Chris

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: Darian Smith <dsmithnfb at gmail.com
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Sun, 20 May 2012 13:03:37 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Blind people doing community service

Hi all,
  I know  I have been pretty quite on the list  as of late, but I
figure I should add my two cents.

 Obviously, any way you  can use your talents and skills to  
better  a
community of any sort is  a very good thing and is considered
"community Service".

 This is my personal feeling, but I think it would be great if we
challanged ourselvesa little bit and tried to take our talents 
and use
them to benifitnot just the blind.
 I am a big fan of non-blindness based community service.
  As enough people probably know I dida ten-month service term  
in
AmeriCorps.  I think  I have learned so much from that time, and 
I
reminded myself that in order to be considered a part of society, 
I
really should do service work shoulder to shoulder with my 
sighted
peers.
  I learned so much about myself, the country, and the issues we 
face
in some places.

 Just some thoughts, and I would be intereste  in hearing yours.
  Take care,
  Darian

On 5/18/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
 I think this counts, but I'm a musician, as everyone here knows.
 I go out to the nursing homes, to entertain the residents, with
 uplifting Gospel music.
 I know it's not much, but I'm doing what I can, in this 
community.
 This is also blindness related, because I'm assisting a blind
 resident, who has finally decided, that she wants to learn 
Braille!
 Woohoo!
 I've talked about her, on another list.
 We need to do outreaches like this, as blind people, to make 
people
 more aware of us, and our issues.
 Also, when the sighted individuals see that blindness isn't 
something
 that keeps us from doing what we want to do, their perceptions 
of us
 will change!
 I'd like to know what all you guys are doing, to serve your 
community!
 Thanks, Joshua

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:
 
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40g
mail.com



--
Darian Smith

"To dream what is possible and to put oneself in service of that 
dream is the
formula
for a life well lived."

- Dr.  Peter Benson

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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m%40gmail.com


From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Tue May 22 23:25:43 2012
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 16:25:43 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <CAN+-G_CazDkVCcQbqMuYX=irCeKfkG2xop1eWVipAQOFrH4cjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD475@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAN+-G_CazDkVCcQbqMuYX=irCeKfkG2xop1eWVipAQOFrH4cjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C0F0E7DD74A140409CE7B83BD16BC643@HUMBERTOAVILA>

I would just rather see one of those "Google data Lenses" made for the
blind. Have you guys heard anything about the Data lenses that Google has
been trying to put out for the public? They are lenses that, supposedly,
work just like little smartphones embedded in glasses that you put on. The
user who puts them on can control and see just about anything and everything
and research just about anything and everything and get just about anything
and everything on his reach just by looking at something or just using them
as mobile gadgets. At least that's what I understand. Having said that, If
Google can come up with "data lenses" for the blind that could:
A.  Have a built-in screen reader and a built-in earpiece;
B.  Audio-describe everything that is going on that a white cane or even a
guide dog can not reach or tell, just like in audio-described movies;
C.  Automatically give details of current location and information when I
get lost and when I am in an unknown place I don't know;
D.  Automatically use Optical Character Recognition (OCR) to read every
single sign, post, bulletin board, white/blackboard, and printed pages of a
regular book, booklet, and notebook without relying on someone else or even
the KNFB reader to get the most instant and real-time information never
possible; and
E.  Work in conjunction with notetakers and computers that use screen
reading software.

Right there, I would be a very happy blind person emulating and getting
closer to being a sighted person. You can find more info on these glasses by
googling them or going to HTTP://NEWS.CNET.COM. Just my 50 cents.

Cheers,
Humberto

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Patrick Molloy
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:33 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

Justin,
If this is what I think it is, then I've heard about it before. I
think the idea is to give blind people more information along with
what we already get on our own. I think it's interesting research too,
but I don't think the people who are behind it are uneducated or
wrong. At least they're stepping up and trying something, as opposed
to other people who would just sit back. Furthermore, I'm often
curious about what else is out there that I might not be picking up
on. This device, if it does all that this article claims, would
probably help with subtle details that we might not ordinarily notice.
In the future, it's possible that this device would help blind people
to read signs that either were far away or didn't have Braille. As of
now, I can guarantee that there are still bugs to work out, but I
think this is really interesting and I hope it continues to improve
over time. I look at this thing as similar to a talking GPS unit for
the blind. True, we CAN get by just fine without one, but WITH one,
you get more information than without.
Patrick

On 5/22/12, Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu> wrote:
> Philosophy Discussion Time
>
> I just caught this story on the local news, and I want to hear people's
> opinions of it.  There are many different versions of this news story, but
> here's a link to a page with a video and text article:
>
> http://wearecentralpa.com/fulltext-healthcast?nxd_id=369932
>
> Feel free to find other versions of this story using a simple search
> engine.
>
> When I heard that Mark couldn't wait for the day that he could navigate
his
> own home independently with a device, I thought to myself "hey, I already
> have one of those devices.  It's called a cane!"
>
> In my reading on the story, I get the impression that researchers think
that
> this device is important because we blind people are oblivious to our
> surroundings and need some way to get information about them.  I think
this
> is cool research for the sake of research, but I see absolutely no
practical
> need for the device.  With the proper skills and training, we can
> independently navigate our own surroundings.  I further wonder if maybe
> these uneducated or incorrectly educated researchers simply don't know
about
> the techniques we blind people can use to independently navigate our
> surroundings or if they view them as inferior and think we should be
trying
> to operate as closely to sighted people as we can.
>
> What does everyone on the list think?
>
> Justin Salisbury
> President
> North Carolina Association of Blind Students
>
>
> Justin M. Salisbury
> Class of 2012
> B.A. in Mathematics
> East Carolina University
> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>
> "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
change
> the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."    -MARGARET MEAD
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g
mail.com



From joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com  Tue May 22 23:42:28 2012
From: joltingjacksandefur at gmail.com (RJ Sandefur)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 19:42:28 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD475@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com><CAN+-G_CazDkVCcQbqMuYX=irCeKfkG2xop1eWVipAQOFrH4cjQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<C0F0E7DD74A140409CE7B83BD16BC643@HUMBERTOAVILA>
Message-ID: <001101cd3874$8cb13d40$0202a8c0@hometwxakonvzn>

Nonsince RJ
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Humberto Avila" <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue


>I would just rather see one of those "Google data Lenses" made for the
> blind. Have you guys heard anything about the Data lenses that Google has
> been trying to put out for the public? They are lenses that, supposedly,
> work just like little smartphones embedded in glasses that you put on. The
> user who puts them on can control and see just about anything and 
> everything
> and research just about anything and everything and get just about 
> anything
> and everything on his reach just by looking at something or just using 
> them
> as mobile gadgets. At least that's what I understand. Having said that, If
> Google can come up with "data lenses" for the blind that could:
> A.  Have a built-in screen reader and a built-in earpiece;
> B.  Audio-describe everything that is going on that a white cane or even a
> guide dog can not reach or tell, just like in audio-described movies;
> C.  Automatically give details of current location and information when I
> get lost and when I am in an unknown place I don't know;
> D.  Automatically use Optical Character Recognition (OCR) to read every
> single sign, post, bulletin board, white/blackboard, and printed pages of 
> a
> regular book, booklet, and notebook without relying on someone else or 
> even
> the KNFB reader to get the most instant and real-time information never
> possible; and
> E.  Work in conjunction with notetakers and computers that use screen
> reading software.
>
> Right there, I would be a very happy blind person emulating and getting
> closer to being a sighted person. You can find more info on these glasses 
> by
> googling them or going to HTTP://NEWS.CNET.COM. Just my 50 cents.
>
> Cheers,
> Humberto
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Patrick Molloy
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:33 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
>
> Justin,
> If this is what I think it is, then I've heard about it before. I
> think the idea is to give blind people more information along with
> what we already get on our own. I think it's interesting research too,
> but I don't think the people who are behind it are uneducated or
> wrong. At least they're stepping up and trying something, as opposed
> to other people who would just sit back. Furthermore, I'm often
> curious about what else is out there that I might not be picking up
> on. This device, if it does all that this article claims, would
> probably help with subtle details that we might not ordinarily notice.
> In the future, it's possible that this device would help blind people
> to read signs that either were far away or didn't have Braille. As of
> now, I can guarantee that there are still bugs to work out, but I
> think this is really interesting and I hope it continues to improve
> over time. I look at this thing as similar to a talking GPS unit for
> the blind. True, we CAN get by just fine without one, but WITH one,
> you get more information than without.
> Patrick
>
> On 5/22/12, Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu> wrote:
>> Philosophy Discussion Time
>>
>> I just caught this story on the local news, and I want to hear people's
>> opinions of it.  There are many different versions of this news story, 
>> but
>> here's a link to a page with a video and text article:
>>
>> http://wearecentralpa.com/fulltext-healthcast?nxd_id=369932
>>
>> Feel free to find other versions of this story using a simple search
>> engine.
>>
>> When I heard that Mark couldn't wait for the day that he could navigate
> his
>> own home independently with a device, I thought to myself "hey, I already
>> have one of those devices.  It's called a cane!"
>>
>> In my reading on the story, I get the impression that researchers think
> that
>> this device is important because we blind people are oblivious to our
>> surroundings and need some way to get information about them.  I think
> this
>> is cool research for the sake of research, but I see absolutely no
> practical
>> need for the device.  With the proper skills and training, we can
>> independently navigate our own surroundings.  I further wonder if maybe
>> these uneducated or incorrectly educated researchers simply don't know
> about
>> the techniques we blind people can use to independently navigate our
>> surroundings or if they view them as inferior and think we should be
> trying
>> to operate as closely to sighted people as we can.
>>
>> What does everyone on the list think?
>>
>> Justin Salisbury
>> President
>> North Carolina Association of Blind Students
>>
>>
>> Justin M. Salisbury
>> Class of 2012
>> B.A. in Mathematics
>> East Carolina University
>> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>>
>> "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
> change
>> the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."    -MARGARET MEAD
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g
> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/joltingjacksandefur%40gmail.com 



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue May 22 23:54:36 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 19:54:36 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Math Conference Call
Message-ID: <4fbc274e.48c2e00a.2b51.fffffd9b@mx.google.com>

Jordan,

Thank you so much! You gave those of us who were on the call a 
wealth of great information about math! I will definitely email 
you if I have any more questions.  By the way, is it OK if I give 
my TVI your email address in case she has some math-related 
questions to ask you?

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com
To: NabsLink <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Sun, 20 May 2012 21:53:35 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Math Conference Call

Hey fellow students,
     I am the person who was the guest speaker on the math call 
tonight.
I just wanted to provide you with my email address:
jordyn2493 at gmail.com
Please feel free to email me with any math questions you may 
have.  I am
more than happy to talk with any of you!
Thank you to the membership committee for having me on the call 
and
thank you to those who offered your thoughts and opinions 
relating to
math! It was great talking to you guys tonight!
Jordyn


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m%40gmail.com


From brandonboy13 at comcast.net  Wed May 23 00:55:06 2012
From: brandonboy13 at comcast.net (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 17:55:06 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD475@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD475@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <DD591D5C562C4AA8A31E92B0BC20C675@BrandonsLaptop2>

haha!
I really think that using the tongue to do things is a huge under exploited 
part of our body... I'd like to see some way to control my note taker with 
my tongue...
I doubt I'll be buying this, unless it makes sight-reading piano music 
feasible.
As for sighted people not understanding that blind people are probably 
better equipped to travel than they are, it probably has to do with the fact 
sighted people have no idea how to travel without signs.
I'm highly amused and I hope the failure of their first product doesn't 
deter them from making Bluetooth remote controls for the mouth!
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Justin Salisbury
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:13 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

Philosophy Discussion Time

I just caught this story on the local news, and I want to hear people's 
opinions of it.  There are many different versions of this news story, but 
here's a link to a page with a video and text article:

http://wearecentralpa.com/fulltext-healthcast?nxd_id=369932

Feel free to find other versions of this story using a simple search engine.

When I heard that Mark couldn't wait for the day that he could navigate his 
own home independently with a device, I thought to myself "hey, I already 
have one of those devices.  It's called a cane!"

In my reading on the story, I get the impression that researchers think that 
this device is important because we blind people are oblivious to our 
surroundings and need some way to get information about them.  I think this 
is cool research for the sake of research, but I see absolutely no practical 
need for the device.  With the proper skills and training, we can 
independently navigate our own surroundings.  I further wonder if maybe 
these uneducated or incorrectly educated researchers simply don't know about 
the techniques we blind people can use to independently navigate our 
surroundings or if they view them as inferior and think we should be trying 
to operate as closely to sighted people as we can.

What does everyone on the list think?

Justin Salisbury
President
North Carolina Association of Blind Students


Justin M. Salisbury
Class of 2012
B.A. in Mathematics
East Carolina University
president at alumni.ecu.edu

“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change 
the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From arielle71 at gmail.com  Wed May 23 01:34:36 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 19:34:36 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <DD591D5C562C4AA8A31E92B0BC20C675@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD475@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
	<DD591D5C562C4AA8A31E92B0BC20C675@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBJ7W4YdubCMtVM6trhy=pUKr_+F-4H8p1jruuPOEKzNQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
I do think there is a place for technology to give the blind access to
visual information, be it through our ears, fingers, tongue or some
other sensory system. However, I wish that technology inventors worked
in a smarter and more organized way. We hear about lots of different
groups inventing special canes, vibrating shoes and other devices, and
many of these things are duplicates of one another. Also, the special
canes and vibrating outfits don't really give us more detailed
information than what we already get from using a conventional cane. I
think all the technology inventors need to get together with a bunch
of us blind folks and figure out what kinds of functionality are most
important for us to gain that we don't already have. There's plenty of
stuff the sighted have that would be nice to have, but what kinds of
access are most important for us to integrate into society? I
personally think being able to read print signs from a distance and
being able to find a specific person in a crowd would be two things I
would prioritize.
Also, many of you may disagree with me, but I have found in my life
that at least 95% of the incidental information sighted people obtain
about their surroundings is superfluous and unnecessary. I would not
want a technological device (or a person for that matter) describing
every detail of what is around me when I walk into a building. If I go
to a colleague's dinner party, I don't need to know what decorations
are on the walls or exactly how all the household furniture is
arranged. I primarily want to know who is there, what kind of food or
drink is being served and where the main hang-out areas are (and
eventually, perhaps the location of the bathroom). I can get all this
information by listening, exploring with my cane or asking a few
questions. If I had a computer device describing the layout of the
party, I would want to have control over exactly what information I
was given so I could process what I needed efficiently without getting
distracted.
I would support the development of the tongue device if it could
reliably read signs from far away. I'm a little skeptical that this
would happen, though.
Arielle

On 5/22/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonboy13 at comcast.net> wrote:
> haha!
> I really think that using the tongue to do things is a huge under exploited
>
> part of our body... I'd like to see some way to control my note taker with
> my tongue...
> I doubt I'll be buying this, unless it makes sight-reading piano music
> feasible.
> As for sighted people not understanding that blind people are probably
> better equipped to travel than they are, it probably has to do with the fact
>
> sighted people have no idea how to travel without signs.
> I'm highly amused and I hope the failure of their first product doesn't
> deter them from making Bluetooth remote controls for the mouth!
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Justin Salisbury
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:13 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
>
> Philosophy Discussion Time
>
> I just caught this story on the local news, and I want to hear people's
> opinions of it.  There are many different versions of this news story, but
> here's a link to a page with a video and text article:
>
> http://wearecentralpa.com/fulltext-healthcast?nxd_id=369932
>
> Feel free to find other versions of this story using a simple search
> engine.
>
> When I heard that Mark couldn't wait for the day that he could navigate his
>
> own home independently with a device, I thought to myself "hey, I already
> have one of those devices.  It's called a cane!"
>
> In my reading on the story, I get the impression that researchers think that
>
> this device is important because we blind people are oblivious to our
> surroundings and need some way to get information about them.  I think this
>
> is cool research for the sake of research, but I see absolutely no practical
>
> need for the device.  With the proper skills and training, we can
> independently navigate our own surroundings.  I further wonder if maybe
> these uneducated or incorrectly educated researchers simply don't know about
>
> the techniques we blind people can use to independently navigate our
> surroundings or if they view them as inferior and think we should be trying
>
> to operate as closely to sighted people as we can.
>
> What does everyone on the list think?
>
> Justin Salisbury
> President
> North Carolina Association of Blind Students
>
>
> Justin M. Salisbury
> Class of 2012
> B.A. in Mathematics
> East Carolina University
> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>
> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
>
> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonboy13%40comcast.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From dandrews at visi.com  Wed May 23 01:34:09 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 20:34:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: National Federation of the Blind and Blind Student
 File Suit Against Maricopa Community College District
Message-ID: <auto-000062179302@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>
>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
>CONTACT:
>
>Chris Danielsen
>
>Director of Public Relations
>
>National Federation of the Blind
>
>(410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
>(410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
><mailto:Cdanielsen at nfb.org>Cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
>National Federation of the Blind and Blind Student File Suit
>Against Maricopa Community College District
>
>
>
>
>
>Complaint Alleges <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = 
>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Mesa Community 
>College Student Experienced Discrimination
>
>
>
>
>
>Phoenix, Arizona (May 22, 2012): The National Federation of the 
>Blind, the nation's leading advocate for the equal education of 
>blind students, and Sebastian Ibanez, a blind student who recently 
>graduated from Mesa Community College, have filed suit (Case No.: CV 
>12-907-PHX-NVW) against the college and the Maricopa Community 
>College District, alleging discrimination against Mr. Ibanez and 
>other blind students.  The complaint alleges that Mr. Ibanez, as a 
>blind student, could not register for his classes, complete online 
>courses and assignments, access student services, or actively 
>participate in his classes because of inaccessible technology 
>purchased or deployed by the Maricopa Community College District and 
>Mesa Community College.  Among other things, college and third-party 
>Web sites and software applications used for coursework and student 
>services do not work with text-to-speech screen reading software, 
>and "clickers" that are used to respond to questions in class cannot 
>be operated independently by blind students.  Most egregious of all, 
>Mr. Ibanez was deliberately excluded from a class solely on the 
>basis of his blindness.  He attended the class but was told by the 
>instructor that she did not feel comfortable teaching a blind 
>student, and was subsequently electronically "dropped" from the 
>class without his knowledge or consent.
>
>
>
>Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, 
>said: "Despite clear mandates for the equal education of students 
>with disabilities contained in the Americans with Disabilities Act 
>and the Rehabilitation Act, we continue to find that higher 
>education institutions are not accommodating their blind students as 
>required by federal law.  As in too many other cases, this instance 
>involves the needless and unlawful purchase and deployment of 
>inaccessible technology.  Worse yet, the case demonstrates again the 
>deliberate disregard by some college faculty and staff for the 
>rights of blind students.  The National Federation of the Blind is 
>once again forced to devote considerable time and resources to 
>rectifying this discrimination.  We will continue to do so until the 
>day when battles like this one are no longer necessary.  We cannot 
>and will not tolerate unlawful discrimination against blind 
>students, and we insist that they receive an education equal to that 
>received by their sighted peers."
>
>
>
>The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Joseph B. Espo of 
>the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, & Levy, LLP, and J.J. Rico of 
>the Arizona Center for Disability Law.
>
>
>
>
>
>###
>
>
>
>About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
>With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind 
>is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind 
>people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives 
>through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs 
>encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading 
>force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's 
>blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the 
>Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in 
>the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Wed May 23 02:42:23 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 21:42:23 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
Message-ID: <4fbc4ec9.25d3650a.0730.ffffab01@mx.google.com>

I=20agree.=20Canes=20are=20wonderful,=20wonderful=20things.=20And=20so=20ar=
e=20
talking=20GPS=20systems.=20Have=20they=20ever=20heard=20of=20those?=20It's=
=20a=20great=20
discovery,=20but=20what=20concerns=20me=20is=20their=20apparent=20lack=20of=
=20
education=20about=20blind=20people=20and=20the=20techniques=20we=20use.

=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20Justin=20Salisbury=20<PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu
To:=20"nabs-l at nfbnet.org"=20<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date=20sent:=20Tue,=2022=20May=202012=2022:13:16=20+0000
Subject:=20[nabs-l]=20Device=20Helps=20Blind=20See=20with=20Tongue

Philosophy=20Discussion=20Time

I=20just=20caught=20this=20story=20on=20the=20local=20news,=20and=20I=20wan=
t=20to=20hear=20
people's=20opinions=20of=20it.=20=20There=20are=20many=20different=20versio=
ns=20of=20
this=20news=20story,=20but=20here's=20a=20link=20to=20a=20page=20with=20a=20=
video=20and=20
text=20article:

http://wearecentralpa.com/fulltext-healthcast?nxd_id=3D369932

Feel=20free=20to=20find=20other=20versions=20of=20this=20story=20using=20a=
=20simple=20
search=20engine.

When=20I=20heard=20that=20Mark=20couldn't=20wait=20for=20the=20day=20that=20=
he=20could=20
navigate=20his=20own=20home=20independently=20with=20a=20device,=20I=20thou=
ght=20to=20
myself=20"hey,=20I=20already=20have=20one=20of=20those=20devices.=20=20It's=
=20called=20a=20
cane!"

In=20my=20reading=20on=20the=20story,=20I=20get=20the=20impression=20that=20=
researchers=20
think=20that=20this=20device=20is=20important=20because=20we=20blind=20peop=
le=20are=20
oblivious=20to=20our=20surroundings=20and=20need=20some=20way=20to=20get=20=

information=20about=20them.=20=20I=20think=20this=20is=20cool=20research=20=
for=20the=20
sake=20of=20research,=20but=20I=20see=20absolutely=20no=20practical=20need=
=20for=20the=20
device.=20=20With=20the=20proper=20skills=20and=20training,=20we=20can=20
independently=20navigate=20our=20own=20surroundings.=20=20I=20further=20won=
der=20if=20
maybe=20these=20uneducated=20or=20incorrectly=20educated=20researchers=20si=
mply=20
don't=20know=20about=20the=20techniques=20we=20blind=20people=20can=20use=20=
to=20
independently=20navigate=20our=20surroundings=20or=20if=20they=20view=20the=
m=20as=20
inferior=20and=20think=20we=20should=20be=20trying=20to=20operate=20as=20cl=
osely=20to=20
sighted=20people=20as=20we=20can.

What=20does=20everyone=20on=20the=20list=20think?

Justin=20Salisbury
President
North=20Carolina=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students


Justin=20M.=20Salisbury
Class=20of=202012
B.A.=20in=20Mathematics
East=20Carolina=20University
president at alumni.ecu.edu

=93Never=20doubt=20that=20a=20small=20group=20of=20thoughtful,=20committed=
=20citizens=20
can=20change=20the=20world;=20indeed,=20it=92s=20the=20only=20thing=20that=
=20ever=20has.=94=20=20=20=20
=97MARGARET=20MEAD

_______________________________________________
nabs-l=20mailing=20list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco=
unt=20info=20
for=20nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
r%40gmail.com



From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Wed May 23 02:46:38 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 21:46:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
Message-ID: <4fbc4fcb.0863650a.3770.ffffc6f0@mx.google.com>

If these Google data lenses can do everything you hope they can, 
then you would basically be a sighted person.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Humberto Avila" <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 22 May 2012 16:25:43 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

I would just rather see one of those "Google data Lenses" made 
for the
blind. Have you guys heard anything about the Data lenses that 
Google has
been trying to put out for the public? They are lenses that, 
supposedly,
work just like little smartphones embedded in glasses that you 
put on. The
user who puts them on can control and see just about anything and 
everything
and research just about anything and everything and get just 
about anything
and everything on his reach just by looking at something or just 
using them
as mobile gadgets. At least that's what I understand. Having said 
that, If
Google can come up with "data lenses" for the blind that could:
A.  Have a built-in screen reader and a built-in earpiece;
B.  Audio-describe everything that is going on that a white cane 
or even a
guide dog can not reach or tell, just like in audio-described 
movies;
C.  Automatically give details of current location and 
information when I
get lost and when I am in an unknown place I don't know;
D.  Automatically use Optical Character Recognition (OCR) to read 
every
single sign, post, bulletin board, white/blackboard, and printed 
pages of a
regular book, booklet, and notebook without relying on someone 
else or even
the KNFB reader to get the most instant and real-time information 
never
possible; and
E.  Work in conjunction with notetakers and computers that use 
screen
reading software.

Right there, I would be a very happy blind person emulating and 
getting
closer to being a sighted person. You can find more info on these 
glasses by
googling them or going to HTTP://NEWS.CNET.COM. Just my 50 cents.

Cheers,
Humberto

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org 
[mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Patrick Molloy
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:33 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

Justin,
If this is what I think it is, then I've heard about it before. I
think the idea is to give blind people more information along 
with
what we already get on our own. I think it's interesting research 
too,
but I don't think the people who are behind it are uneducated or
wrong. At least they're stepping up and trying something, as 
opposed
to other people who would just sit back. Furthermore, I'm often
curious about what else is out there that I might not be picking 
up
on. This device, if it does all that this article claims, would
probably help with subtle details that we might not ordinarily 
notice.
In the future, it's possible that this device would help blind 
people
to read signs that either were far away or didn't have Braille. 
As of
now, I can guarantee that there are still bugs to work out, but I
think this is really interesting and I hope it continues to 
improve
over time. I look at this thing as similar to a talking GPS unit 
for
the blind. True, we CAN get by just fine without one, but WITH 
one,
you get more information than without.
Patrick

On 5/22/12, Justin Salisbury <PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu> wrote:
 Philosophy Discussion Time

 I just caught this story on the local news, and I want to hear 
people's
 opinions of it.  There are many different versions of this news 
story, but
 here's a link to a page with a video and text article:

 http://wearecentralpa.com/fulltext-healthcast?nxd_id=369932

 Feel free to find other versions of this story using a simple 
search
 engine.

 When I heard that Mark couldn't wait for the day that he could 
navigate
his
 own home independently with a device, I thought to myself "hey, 
I already
 have one of those devices.  It's called a cane!"

 In my reading on the story, I get the impression that 
researchers think
that
 this device is important because we blind people are oblivious 
to our
 surroundings and need some way to get information about them.  I 
think
this
 is cool research for the sake of research, but I see absolutely 
no
practical
 need for the device.  With the proper skills and training, we 
can
 independently navigate our own surroundings.  I further wonder 
if maybe
 these uneducated or incorrectly educated researchers simply 
don't know
about
 the techniques we blind people can use to independently navigate 
our
 surroundings or if they view them as inferior and think we 
should be
trying
 to operate as closely to sighted people as we can.

 What does everyone on the list think?

 Justin Salisbury
 President
 North Carolina Association of Blind Students


 Justin M. Salisbury
 Class of 2012
 B.A. in Mathematics
 East Carolina University
 president at alumni.ecu.edu

 "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed 
citizens can
change
 the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."    
-MARGARET MEAD

 _______________________________________________
 nabs-l mailing list
 nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
 To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
info for
 nabs-l:

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40gmail.com


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nabs-l:
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mberto2%40g
mail.com


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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Wed May 23 02:48:40 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 21:48:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
Message-ID: <4fbc5042.c383ec0a.73fa.ffffe246@mx.google.com>

I=20find=20the=20thought=20of=20operating=20my=20braillenote=20with=20my=20=
mouth=20
slightly=20creepy=20and=20I'm=20not=20ashamed=20to=20admit=20it.=20And=20an=
other=20
reason=20sighted=20people=20are=20so=20inept=20at=20traveling=20is=20becaus=
e=20(at=20
least=20in=20school=20hallways)=20they=20never=20look=20where=20they're=20g=
oing.=20:)=20
This=20boggles=20my=20mind...

=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20"Brandon=20Keith=20Biggs"=20<brandonboy13 at comcast.net
To:=20"National=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students=20mailing=20list"=20
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date=20sent:=20Tue,=2022=20May=202012=2017:55:06=20-0700
Subject:=20Re:=20[nabs-l]=20Device=20Helps=20Blind=20See=20with=20Tongue

haha!
I=20really=20think=20that=20using=20the=20tongue=20to=20do=20things=20is=20=
a=20huge=20under=20
exploited
part=20of=20our=20body...=20I'd=20like=20to=20see=20some=20way=20to=20contr=
ol=20my=20note=20
taker=20with
my=20tongue...
I=20doubt=20I'll=20be=20buying=20this,=20unless=20it=20makes=20sight-readin=
g=20piano=20
music
feasible.
As=20for=20sighted=20people=20not=20understanding=20that=20blind=20people=20=
are=20
probably
better=20equipped=20to=20travel=20than=20they=20are,=20it=20probably=20has=
=20to=20do=20
with=20the=20fact
sighted=20people=20have=20no=20idea=20how=20to=20travel=20without=20signs.
I'm=20highly=20amused=20and=20I=20hope=20the=20failure=20of=20their=20first=
=20product=20
doesn't
deter=20them=20from=20making=20Bluetooth=20remote=20controls=20for=20the=20=
mouth!
Thanks,

Brandon=20Keith=20Biggs
-----Original=20Message-----
From:=20Justin=20Salisbury
Sent:=20Tuesday,=20May=2022,=202012=203:13=20PM
To:=20nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject:=20[nabs-l]=20Device=20Helps=20Blind=20See=20with=20Tongue

Philosophy=20Discussion=20Time

I=20just=20caught=20this=20story=20on=20the=20local=20news,=20and=20I=20wan=
t=20to=20hear=20
people's
opinions=20of=20it.=20=20There=20are=20many=20different=20versions=20of=20t=
his=20news=20
story,=20but
here's=20a=20link=20to=20a=20page=20with=20a=20video=20and=20text=20article=
:

http://wearecentralpa.com/fulltext-healthcast?nxd_id=3D369932

Feel=20free=20to=20find=20other=20versions=20of=20this=20story=20using=20a=
=20simple=20
search=20engine.

When=20I=20heard=20that=20Mark=20couldn't=20wait=20for=20the=20day=20that=20=
he=20could=20
navigate=20his
own=20home=20independently=20with=20a=20device,=20I=20thought=20to=20myself=
=20"hey,=20I=20
already
have=20one=20of=20those=20devices.=20=20It's=20called=20a=20cane!"

In=20my=20reading=20on=20the=20story,=20I=20get=20the=20impression=20that=20=
researchers=20
think=20that
this=20device=20is=20important=20because=20we=20blind=20people=20are=20obli=
vious=20to=20
our
surroundings=20and=20need=20some=20way=20to=20get=20information=20about=20t=
hem.=20=20I=20
think=20this
is=20cool=20research=20for=20the=20sake=20of=20research,=20but=20I=20see=20=
absolutely=20
no=20practical
need=20for=20the=20device.=20=20With=20the=20proper=20skills=20and=20traini=
ng,=20we=20can
independently=20navigate=20our=20own=20surroundings.=20=20I=20further=20won=
der=20if=20
maybe
these=20uneducated=20or=20incorrectly=20educated=20researchers=20simply=20d=
on't=20
know=20about
the=20techniques=20we=20blind=20people=20can=20use=20to=20independently=20n=
avigate=20
our
surroundings=20or=20if=20they=20view=20them=20as=20inferior=20and=20think=20=
we=20should=20
be=20trying
to=20operate=20as=20closely=20to=20sighted=20people=20as=20we=20can.

What=20does=20everyone=20on=20the=20list=20think?

Justin=20Salisbury
President
North=20Carolina=20Association=20of=20Blind=20Students


Justin=20M.=20Salisbury
Class=20of=202012
B.A.=20in=20Mathematics
East=20Carolina=20University
president at alumni.ecu.edu

=93Never=20doubt=20that=20a=20small=20group=20of=20thoughtful,=20committed=
=20citizens=20
can=20change
the=20world;=20indeed,=20it=92s=20the=20only=20thing=20that=20ever=20has.=94=
=20=20=20=20
=97MARGARET=20MEAD

_______________________________________________
nabs-l=20mailing=20list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco=
unt=20info=20
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonboy13%
40comcast.net


_______________________________________________
nabs-l=20mailing=20list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To=20unsubscribe,=20change=20your=20list=20options=20or=20get=20your=20acco=
unt=20info=20
for=20nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
r%40gmail.com



From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Wed May 23 04:16:53 2012
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Tue, 22 May 2012 21:16:53 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: [nfb-talk] Fwd: National Federation of the Blind and
	Blind Student File Suit Against Maricopa Community College District
Message-ID: <1E984CB04AEB4A2D8962DE78380E0B59@HUMBERTOAVILA>

Hello all, please see below. This is outrageous. 
P.S. also Dave, did you ever post this to the nfbNet-Members-List list? I
think this is worth calling the attention to everybody. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nfb-talk-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of David Andrews
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 6:34 PM
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nfb-talk] Fwd: National Federation of the Blind and Blind Student
File Suit Against Maricopa Community College District


>
>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>
>
>CONTACT:
>
>Chris Danielsen
>
>Director of Public Relations
>
>National Federation of the Blind
>
>(410) 659-9314, extension 2330
>
>(410) 262-1281 (Cell)
>
><mailto:Cdanielsen at nfb.org>Cdanielsen at nfb.org
>
>
>
>
>National Federation of the Blind and Blind Student File Suit
>Against Maricopa Community College District
>
>
>
>
>
>Complaint Alleges <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = 
>"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Mesa Community 
>College Student Experienced Discrimination
>
>
>
>
>
>Phoenix, Arizona (May 22, 2012): The National Federation of the 
>Blind, the nation's leading advocate for the equal education of 
>blind students, and Sebastian Ibanez, a blind student who recently 
>graduated from Mesa Community College, have filed suit (Case No.: CV 
>12-907-PHX-NVW) against the college and the Maricopa Community 
>College District, alleging discrimination against Mr. Ibanez and 
>other blind students.  The complaint alleges that Mr. Ibanez, as a 
>blind student, could not register for his classes, complete online 
>courses and assignments, access student services, or actively 
>participate in his classes because of inaccessible technology 
>purchased or deployed by the Maricopa Community College District and 
>Mesa Community College.  Among other things, college and third-party 
>Web sites and software applications used for coursework and student 
>services do not work with text-to-speech screen reading software, 
>and "clickers" that are used to respond to questions in class cannot 
>be operated independently by blind students.  Most egregious of all, 
>Mr. Ibanez was deliberately excluded from a class solely on the 
>basis of his blindness.  He attended the class but was told by the 
>instructor that she did not feel comfortable teaching a blind 
>student, and was subsequently electronically "dropped" from the 
>class without his knowledge or consent.
>
>
>
>Dr. Marc Maurer, President of the National Federation of the Blind, 
>said: "Despite clear mandates for the equal education of students 
>with disabilities contained in the Americans with Disabilities Act 
>and the Rehabilitation Act, we continue to find that higher 
>education institutions are not accommodating their blind students as 
>required by federal law.  As in too many other cases, this instance 
>involves the needless and unlawful purchase and deployment of 
>inaccessible technology.  Worse yet, the case demonstrates again the 
>deliberate disregard by some college faculty and staff for the 
>rights of blind students.  The National Federation of the Blind is 
>once again forced to devote considerable time and resources to 
>rectifying this discrimination.  We will continue to do so until the 
>day when battles like this one are no longer necessary.  We cannot 
>and will not tolerate unlawful discrimination against blind 
>students, and we insist that they receive an education equal to that 
>received by their sighted peers."
>
>
>
>The plaintiffs are represented in this matter by Joseph B. Espo of 
>the Baltimore firm Brown, Goldstein, & Levy, LLP, and J.J. Rico of 
>the Arizona Center for Disability Law.
>
>
>
>
>
>###
>
>
>
>About the National Federation of the Blind
>
>
>
>With more than 50,000 members, the National Federation of the Blind 
>is the largest and most influential membership organization of blind 
>people in the United States. The NFB improves blind people's lives 
>through advocacy, education, research, technology, and programs 
>encouraging independence and self-confidence. It is the leading 
>force in the blindness field today and the voice of the nation's 
>blind. In January 2004 the NFB opened the National Federation of the 
>Blind Jernigan Institute, the first research and training center in 
>the United States for the blind led by the blind.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
_______________________________________________
nfb-talk mailing list
nfb-talk at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nfb-talk:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nfb-talk_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%4
0gmail.com



From jordyn2493 at gmail.com  Wed May 23 13:56:53 2012
From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 09:56:53 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
Message-ID: <4FBCECA5.6060303@gmail.com>

Hey all,
I seem to have lots of questions lately! :) At least it feels like it.
Anyway, I'm wondering which, if any, GPS solutions you use? I'm looking 
into purchase a Trekker Breeze or Captain GPS.
I'm also not looking for a GPS solution on a notetaker such as a PAC 
Mate or a Braillenote.
What are your  thoughts related to the Trekker Breeze or Captain?
Thanks for your feedback in advance! :)
Jordyn


From cassonw at gmail.com  Wed May 23 14:16:05 2012
From: cassonw at gmail.com (Bill)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 08:16:05 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <4fbc5042.c383ec0a.73fa.ffffe246@mx.google.com>
References: <4fbc5042.c383ec0a.73fa.ffffe246@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAEWJ-9=WeYYRLDKChHCLsi+OZq+b1ckz9D+M6ORSRbMne=txEg@mail.gmail.com>

blue-tooth in my mouth sounds like cancer just waiting to happen, I'll pass.

On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 8:48 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> I find the thought of operating my braillenote with my mouth slightly creepy
> and I'm not ashamed to admit it. And another reason sighted people are so
> inept at traveling is because (at least in school hallways) they never look
> where they're going. :) This boggles my mind...
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonboy13 at comcast.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 22 May 2012 17:55:06 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
>
> haha!
> I really think that using the tongue to do things is a huge under exploited
> part of our body... I'd like to see some way to control my note taker with
> my tongue...
> I doubt I'll be buying this, unless it makes sight-reading piano music
> feasible.
> As for sighted people not understanding that blind people are probably
> better equipped to travel than they are, it probably has to do with the fact
> sighted people have no idea how to travel without signs.
> I'm highly amused and I hope the failure of their first product doesn't
> deter them from making Bluetooth remote controls for the mouth!
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Justin Salisbury
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:13 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
>
> Philosophy Discussion Time
>
> I just caught this story on the local news, and I want to hear people's
> opinions of it.  There are many different versions of this news story, but
> here's a link to a page with a video and text article:
>
> http://wearecentralpa.com/fulltext-healthcast?nxd_id=369932
>
> Feel free to find other versions of this story using a simple search engine.
>
> When I heard that Mark couldn't wait for the day that he could navigate his
> own home independently with a device, I thought to myself "hey, I already
> have one of those devices.  It's called a cane!"
>
> In my reading on the story, I get the impression that researchers think that
> this device is important because we blind people are oblivious to our
> surroundings and need some way to get information about them.  I think this
> is cool research for the sake of research, but I see absolutely no practical
> need for the device.  With the proper skills and training, we can
> independently navigate our own surroundings.  I further wonder if maybe
> these uneducated or incorrectly educated researchers simply don't know about
> the techniques we blind people can use to independently navigate our
> surroundings or if they view them as inferior and think we should be trying
> to operate as closely to sighted people as we can.
>
> What does everyone on the list think?
>
> Justin Salisbury
> President
> North Carolina Association of Blind Students
>
>
> Justin M. Salisbury
> Class of 2012
> B.A. in Mathematics
> East Carolina University
> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>
> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonboy13%
> 40comcast.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com
>



-- 
Bill Casson
University of New Mexico
M.S. Computer Science
Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11
B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci.
(505) 695-1374
cassonw at gmail.com


From brandonboy13 at comcast.net  Wed May 23 14:40:28 2012
From: brandonboy13 at comcast.net (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 07:40:28 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <CAEWJ-9=WeYYRLDKChHCLsi+OZq+b1ckz9D+M6ORSRbMne=txEg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4fbc5042.c383ec0a.73fa.ffffe246@mx.google.com>
	<CAEWJ-9=WeYYRLDKChHCLsi+OZq+b1ckz9D+M6ORSRbMne=txEg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0A44D48F50F44BD5BB2A1666887F8E94@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
actually, there is no way radio waves can caws cancer. It's physically 
impossible.. And I think it would just be like a joy stick deal, where you 
are able to move through menus and hit enter and whatnot, not type. It would 
be really nice for those of us who read massive amounts of books, and those 
of us who are doing something messy, like baking while listening to music or 
books.
The glasses I think will be the best invention ever, if they are able to be 
made accessible. Like the Google car, new technology will take time to be 
integrated into our culture, because there is always people who don't 
understand it and people who are scared of it, even though they have never 
tried it.
BTW, how am I supposed to find the sign in the first place to get a good 
picture of what it says without touching it first?
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Bill
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:16 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

blue-tooth in my mouth sounds like cancer just waiting to happen, I'll pass.

On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 8:48 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> 
wrote:
> I find the thought of operating my braillenote with my mouth slightly 
> creepy
> and I'm not ashamed to admit it. And another reason sighted people are so
> inept at traveling is because (at least in school hallways) they never 
> look
> where they're going. :) This boggles my mind...
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonboy13 at comcast.net
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 22 May 2012 17:55:06 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
>
> haha!
> I really think that using the tongue to do things is a huge under 
> exploited
> part of our body... I'd like to see some way to control my note taker with
> my tongue...
> I doubt I'll be buying this, unless it makes sight-reading piano music
> feasible.
> As for sighted people not understanding that blind people are probably
> better equipped to travel than they are, it probably has to do with the 
> fact
> sighted people have no idea how to travel without signs.
> I'm highly amused and I hope the failure of their first product doesn't
> deter them from making Bluetooth remote controls for the mouth!
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Justin Salisbury
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:13 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
>
> Philosophy Discussion Time
>
> I just caught this story on the local news, and I want to hear people's
> opinions of it.  There are many different versions of this news story, but
> here's a link to a page with a video and text article:
>
> http://wearecentralpa.com/fulltext-healthcast?nxd_id=369932
>
> Feel free to find other versions of this story using a simple search 
> engine.
>
> When I heard that Mark couldn't wait for the day that he could navigate 
> his
> own home independently with a device, I thought to myself "hey, I already
> have one of those devices.  It's called a cane!"
>
> In my reading on the story, I get the impression that researchers think 
> that
> this device is important because we blind people are oblivious to our
> surroundings and need some way to get information about them.  I think 
> this
> is cool research for the sake of research, but I see absolutely no 
> practical
> need for the device.  With the proper skills and training, we can
> independently navigate our own surroundings.  I further wonder if maybe
> these uneducated or incorrectly educated researchers simply don't know 
> about
> the techniques we blind people can use to independently navigate our
> surroundings or if they view them as inferior and think we should be 
> trying
> to operate as closely to sighted people as we can.
>
> What does everyone on the list think?
>
> Justin Salisbury
> President
> North Carolina Association of Blind Students
>
>
> Justin M. Salisbury
> Class of 2012
> B.A. in Mathematics
> East Carolina University
> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>
> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can 
> change
> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonboy13%
> 40comcast.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cassonw%40gmail.com
>



-- 
Bill Casson
University of New Mexico
M.S. Computer Science
Lewis & Clark Alumnus '11
B.A. Physics and Math/Comp Sci.
(505) 695-1374
cassonw at gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonboy13%40comcast.net 



From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Wed May 23 17:17:52 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 12:17:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
Message-ID: <4fbd1bfb.2206650a.4c57.443c@mx.google.com>

The Navigon App for the iPhone works great. The Breeze is ok---I 
have some experience with it--but it isn't as high-tech or 
precise as the Navigon or other iPhone GPS app.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com
To: NabsLink <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Wed, 23 May 2012 09:56:53 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions

Hey all,
I seem to have lots of questions lately! :) At least it feels 
like it.
Anyway, I'm wondering which, if any, GPS solutions you use? I'm 
looking
into purchase a Trekker Breeze or Captain GPS.
I'm also not looking for a GPS solution on a notetaker such as a 
PAC
Mate or a Braillenote.
What are your  thoughts related to the Trekker Breeze or Captain?
Thanks for your feedback in advance! :)
Jordyn

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
r%40gmail.com


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Wed May 23 17:19:40 2012
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 10:19:40 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Nabs Needs Your Help at National Convention
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjMeNnYTAa2A-Nr3Cs7Gzz1otTvdwMPnkRTqO5ZAq=E+Pg@mail.gmail.com>

 As you all know, the National association of blind students is
planning a lot of exciting things at national convention. What you may
not know however is that we as a board can’t do all of it ourselves.
So we would very much appreciate your help in making the nabs
activities a success this year!
 Where we would most appreciate your assistance is in two areas:
1.  Assistance in staffing the nabs table located in the exhibit hall.
 Here you will be partnered up with a nabs board member selling   nabs
items and handing out nabs literature.  The schedule for tabling looks
like this:
 Sunday, July 1:	
 Shift 1. 11:00 a.m. – 1:00 p.m.
Shift 2. 1:00 p.m. – 3:00 p.m.
Shift 3. 3:00p.m. – 5:00 p.m.
Monday, July 2:
Shift 4:  8:30 a.m. – 11:00 a.m.
Shift 5: 11:00 a.m. – 1:00 p.m.
Shift 6: 1:00 p.m. – 3:00 p.m.
Shift 7: 3:00 p.m. – 5:00p.m.
Tuesday, July 3:
Shift 8: 12 noon – 1:45 p.m.
 Shift 9: 7:00p.m. – 9:00 p.m.
Wednesday, July 4:
Shift 10: 12 noon – 1:45 p.m
Shift 11: 6:00p.m. – 8:30 p.m.


As you can see, we have eleven shifts, so if you contact me with your
preference, I will be more than happy to get you scheduled in!

2. Staffing the nabs Monte Carlo night fund raiser. This is a great
opportunity to work shoulder to shoulder with us in putting together
one of our most successful events that we do.  For this we will need:
 Individuals who can work an early shift (7:00 p.m. - 9:30 p.m.  Those
individuals will be asked to either
a.	Marshal.
b.	Set up for the event
c.	Deal card games( blackjack, poker, holdemand other such games)
 We will also need Late shift workers (9:30 p.m. – 12:00 a.m.)  Those
individuals would be asked to:
a.	deal card games (blackjack, poker, holdem and other such games)
b.	Assist with event clean- up and playing chip counting.

Please let me know what shift(s) you are interested in working
(exhibit hall, Monte Carlo or both).  Also please supply a contact
phone number where you can be reached during convention.   If you are
interested in working Monte Carlo, please let me know what job you
would like to take on, if you would like to deal and what games you
would like to deal (blackjack, poker, holdem or other such games).
 This is a great opportunity for you to meet the nabs board, and us to
get to know you. As well, this is an equally great opportunity for you
to meet a lot of new people and have some fun at the same time.
 Please contact me if interested.
 I can be contacted at: dsmithnfb at gmail.com

 Thank you   so much for your interest and I look forward to hearing
from you all real soon
 And of course, see you in Dallas!!!
  Best,
Darian


From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Wed May 23 17:24:34 2012
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 13:24:34 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
In-Reply-To: <4fbd1bfb.2206650a.4c57.443c@mx.google.com>
References: <4fbd1bfb.2206650a.4c57.443c@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAF2O2Cx3N+-XxkO-rKOYn3ExtS_XA1+curNtDpYUmU0ROJOUmw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Jordyn,

The Kapten I don't think is being sold anymore and thank God as it was
horrid. DO NOT WASTE MONEY ON IT!!
The Breeze is outdated, horribly over-priced and under-powered, and
lacking in many features but is the only blindness-based GPS that I
know of at the moment. If you can get an app on the phone you are
using, that would be great. There are various apps on various phones
for GPS use that are accessible and that serve different functions.

Thanks.

On 5/23/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> The Navigon App for the iPhone works great. The Breeze is ok---I
> have some experience with it--but it isn't as high-tech or
> precise as the Navigon or other iPhone GPS app.
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com
> To: NabsLink <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Wed, 23 May 2012 09:56:53 -0400
> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
>
> Hey all,
> I seem to have lots of questions lately! :) At least it feels
> like it.
> Anyway, I'm wondering which, if any, GPS solutions you use? I'm
> looking
> into purchase a Trekker Breeze or Captain GPS.
> I'm also not looking for a GPS solution on a notetaker such as a
> PAC
> Mate or a Braillenote.
> What are your  thoughts related to the Trekker Breeze or Captain?
> Thanks for your feedback in advance! :)
> Jordyn
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
> r%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cordially,

Nimer Jaber

Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains
some information about the email you have just read and all
attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and
methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk.

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/
Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
please click here:
http://www.vinuxproject.org

To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
and above, please click here:
http://www.nvda-project.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
http://nimertech.blogspot.com

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
you, and have a great day!


From PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu  Wed May 23 19:41:29 2012
From: PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu (Justin Salisbury)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 19:41:29 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
Message-ID: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD55B@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

I think some of you are focusing on the technology and its possible uses.  What made me want to post this article were the philosophies on blindness expressed in the article and news story.

In no connection to the previous discussion of cancer on this thread, I feel like the researchers think their discovery is analogous to finding a cure for cancer when they come up with this technology.  They appear to me to be trying to tackle tasks that any graduate of an NFB training center can already handle.  If I don't know what is on the counter in front of me, I reach out and touch it.  Let them research whatever they want to research, but I think these people are marked by a profound misunderstanding of blindness.

I don't try to fix the fact that I'm blind (as if it's something wrong with me); I try to fix the misunderstandings about blindness.

Justin

Justin M. Salisbury
Class of 2012
B.A. in Mathematics
East Carolina University
president at alumni.ecu.edu

“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD



From amylsabo at comcast.net  Wed May 23 20:33:51 2012
From: amylsabo at comcast.net (Amy Sabo)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 14:33:51 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] MS OFFICE 2010
Message-ID: <000001cd3923$61615620$24240260$@comcast.net>

HELLO ALL,

 

I HOPE THAT EVERYONE IS DOING GOOD. I HAVE A PROBLEM WHICH I HAVE
ENCOUNTERED TODAY WHILE AT MY INTERNSHIP TODAY.

 

I WAS CREATING A COUPLE OF DOCUMENTS AND, I TRIED HITTING THE F7 KEY TO
CHECK MY SPELLING AND GRAMMER AND, NOTHING HAPPENED. DO I NEED TO CHANGE
SOMETHING IN THE OPTIONS OR HOW CAN I FIX THIS PROBLEM?

 

 

THANKS A BUNCH,

AMY

 

my Sabo

amylsabo at comcast.net

303-588-7725

 


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed May 23 20:40:07 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 16:40:07 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] MS OFFICE 2010
In-Reply-To: <000001cd3923$61615620$24240260$@comcast.net>
References: <000001cd3923$61615620$24240260$@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <C3E2A47C57EA4F26B7D8CBDB5B709126@OwnerPC>

Amy,
That key f 7 should work. Make sure you are not in another frame.  You want 
your cursor to be active in the document. Also, in office 2010, you cannot 
edit attachments in emails unless you click on enable editing. So click on 
that button if its an attachment, and you should be able to spell check. If 
that doesn't work, I'd say restart the computer and open the document again.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Amy Sabo
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 4:33 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] MS OFFICE 2010

HELLO ALL,



I HOPE THAT EVERYONE IS DOING GOOD. I HAVE A PROBLEM WHICH I HAVE
ENCOUNTERED TODAY WHILE AT MY INTERNSHIP TODAY.



I WAS CREATING A COUPLE OF DOCUMENTS AND, I TRIED HITTING THE F7 KEY TO
CHECK MY SPELLING AND GRAMMER AND, NOTHING HAPPENED. DO I NEED TO CHANGE
SOMETHING IN THE OPTIONS OR HOW CAN I FIX THIS PROBLEM?





THANKS A BUNCH,

AMY



my Sabo

amylsabo at comcast.net

303-588-7725



_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From brandonboy13 at comcast.net  Wed May 23 20:53:44 2012
From: brandonboy13 at comcast.net (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 13:53:44 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD55B@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD55B@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <2CF49A7194154D06857537A1F9F11925@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
True, the sighted people in engineering often want to develop things for 
blind people to use, but very few of them know blind people to ask, or know 
of any professionals on blind people that could answer their questions. I 
think the root of the problem is that there aren’t enough of us to go around 
and the professionals or people informed about blindness are even more rare 
than we are.
I have often brought up to my college that they should start a TVI program 
and they kind of chuckle and ask me where I'll find the teachers... But 
there are so many students who are going in to special Ed that have heard of 
being a teacher of the blind, but they know nothing about it. There is one 
or two places in the special Ed program that talk about blindness related 
subjects in passing, but that is often very small and obscure.
I wonder if there could be a project/class system  or something that could 
be developed that a blind student could take to their college that teaches 
people a little about what it's like working with blind people. That way 
colleges may start taking notice of this important field and make it a part 
of the class catalogue. The information just needs to get out there to the 
public.
The best way for myths about blindness to be dispelled is for a TV show with 
a blind person as the lead, acting as a blind person, to go on the air. But 
idk of very many directors who would be able to find someone who could write 
a good pilot script or direct the movie to show a blind person as they 
really are.
Blindness is like Opera, people truly just don't know about it! (Les Miz and 
Phantom are NOT OPERA and Dare devil and all those other blind movie 
characters aren’t blind!
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Justin Salisbury
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:41 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

I think some of you are focusing on the technology and its possible uses. 
What made me want to post this article were the philosophies on blindness 
expressed in the article and news story.

In no connection to the previous discussion of cancer on this thread, I feel 
like the researchers think their discovery is analogous to finding a cure 
for cancer when they come up with this technology.  They appear to me to be 
trying to tackle tasks that any graduate of an NFB training center can 
already handle.  If I don't know what is on the counter in front of me, I 
reach out and touch it.  Let them research whatever they want to research, 
but I think these people are marked by a profound misunderstanding of 
blindness.

I don't try to fix the fact that I'm blind (as if it's something wrong with 
me); I try to fix the misunderstandings about blindness.

Justin

Justin M. Salisbury
Class of 2012
B.A. in Mathematics
East Carolina University
president at alumni.ecu.edu

“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change 
the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonboy13%40comcast.net 



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Wed May 23 21:00:54 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 15:00:54 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <2CF49A7194154D06857537A1F9F11925@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD55B@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
	<2CF49A7194154D06857537A1F9F11925@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBL7zzLBHN6ij+y=oDF_NaAVfwdFBovh9mPj2njWGaNcg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Justin,
I totally agree with you. That's why I think the technology engineers
need to really focus in on only those problems we haven't already
solved. For instance as you aptly point out, we don't need gadgets to
get around our own homes because we've come up with plenty of
techniques for that. But we don't yet have a good technique for
reading signs from far away so that's something a gadget might be able
to help us with.
Engineers need to ask us what access gaps still haven't been filled
and listen to what we have to say, instead of just designing things
that sound good to them.
Arielle

On 5/23/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonboy13 at comcast.net> wrote:
> Hello,
> True, the sighted people in engineering often want to develop things for
> blind people to use, but very few of them know blind people to ask, or know
>
> of any professionals on blind people that could answer their questions. I
> think the root of the problem is that there aren’t enough of us to go around
>
> and the professionals or people informed about blindness are even more rare
>
> than we are.
> I have often brought up to my college that they should start a TVI program
> and they kind of chuckle and ask me where I'll find the teachers... But
> there are so many students who are going in to special Ed that have heard of
>
> being a teacher of the blind, but they know nothing about it. There is one
> or two places in the special Ed program that talk about blindness related
> subjects in passing, but that is often very small and obscure.
> I wonder if there could be a project/class system  or something that could
> be developed that a blind student could take to their college that teaches
> people a little about what it's like working with blind people. That way
> colleges may start taking notice of this important field and make it a part
>
> of the class catalogue. The information just needs to get out there to the
> public.
> The best way for myths about blindness to be dispelled is for a TV show with
>
> a blind person as the lead, acting as a blind person, to go on the air. But
>
> idk of very many directors who would be able to find someone who could write
>
> a good pilot script or direct the movie to show a blind person as they
> really are.
> Blindness is like Opera, people truly just don't know about it! (Les Miz and
>
> Phantom are NOT OPERA and Dare devil and all those other blind movie
> characters aren’t blind!
> Thank you,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Justin Salisbury
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:41 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
>
> I think some of you are focusing on the technology and its possible uses.
> What made me want to post this article were the philosophies on blindness
> expressed in the article and news story.
>
> In no connection to the previous discussion of cancer on this thread, I feel
>
> like the researchers think their discovery is analogous to finding a cure
> for cancer when they come up with this technology.  They appear to me to be
>
> trying to tackle tasks that any graduate of an NFB training center can
> already handle.  If I don't know what is on the counter in front of me, I
> reach out and touch it.  Let them research whatever they want to research,
> but I think these people are marked by a profound misunderstanding of
> blindness.
>
> I don't try to fix the fact that I'm blind (as if it's something wrong with
>
> me); I try to fix the misunderstandings about blindness.
>
> Justin
>
> Justin M. Salisbury
> Class of 2012
> B.A. in Mathematics
> East Carolina University
> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>
> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
>
> the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonboy13%40comcast.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Wed May 23 21:53:21 2012
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 14:53:21 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD55B@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD55B@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <066DB8ED6DBF4348A6BCDF196ACF39D3@HUMBERTOAVILA>

You have a great point. Yes, there are thoughts that, just because they
could be a cure for cancer, there should be a cure for blindness. This is,
and will not, be true after all. My blindness should not be cured in any
physical manner. But the thing I am going to cure  myself is how people
react to blindness. If indeed there is a cure for blindness, is the only
cure that specifies that a blind person should have his or her own vision of
what he or she needs to do and wants to do in life, and not letting
blindness be a hinder. Like Stevie Wonder points out, "just because you are
blind, does not mean you lack vision." 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Justin Salisbury
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:41 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

I think some of you are focusing on the technology and its possible uses.
What made me want to post this article were the philosophies on blindness
expressed in the article and news story.

In no connection to the previous discussion of cancer on this thread, I feel
like the researchers think their discovery is analogous to finding a cure
for cancer when they come up with this technology.  They appear to me to be
trying to tackle tasks that any graduate of an NFB training center can
already handle.  If I don't know what is on the counter in front of me, I
reach out and touch it.  Let them research whatever they want to research,
but I think these people are marked by a profound misunderstanding of
blindness.

I don't try to fix the fact that I'm blind (as if it's something wrong with
me); I try to fix the misunderstandings about blindness.

Justin

Justin M. Salisbury
Class of 2012
B.A. in Mathematics
East Carolina University
president at alumni.ecu.edu

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."    -MARGARET MEAD


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g
mail.com



From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Wed May 23 21:57:52 2012
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 14:57:52 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <2CF49A7194154D06857537A1F9F11925@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD55B@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
	<2CF49A7194154D06857537A1F9F11925@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <904FF730C7C5412DA56BA09B196D8736@HUMBERTOAVILA>

Maybe one of you students needs to go into the field of engineering so you
can help these uneducated researchers with their projects that "fix
blindness." we need more and more and more blind people in the STEM fields
that's for sure! And yes, we also need a blind celebrity that really can
apply the philosophy of blindness of the NFB in all public appearances and
performances, including TV shows and movies. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Brandon Keith Biggs
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 1:54 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

Hello,
True, the sighted people in engineering often want to develop things for 
blind people to use, but very few of them know blind people to ask, or know 
of any professionals on blind people that could answer their questions. I 
think the root of the problem is that there aren't enough of us to go around

and the professionals or people informed about blindness are even more rare 
than we are.
I have often brought up to my college that they should start a TVI program 
and they kind of chuckle and ask me where I'll find the teachers... But 
there are so many students who are going in to special Ed that have heard of

being a teacher of the blind, but they know nothing about it. There is one 
or two places in the special Ed program that talk about blindness related 
subjects in passing, but that is often very small and obscure.
I wonder if there could be a project/class system  or something that could 
be developed that a blind student could take to their college that teaches 
people a little about what it's like working with blind people. That way 
colleges may start taking notice of this important field and make it a part 
of the class catalogue. The information just needs to get out there to the 
public.
The best way for myths about blindness to be dispelled is for a TV show with

a blind person as the lead, acting as a blind person, to go on the air. But 
idk of very many directors who would be able to find someone who could write

a good pilot script or direct the movie to show a blind person as they 
really are.
Blindness is like Opera, people truly just don't know about it! (Les Miz and

Phantom are NOT OPERA and Dare devil and all those other blind movie 
characters aren't blind!
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Justin Salisbury
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:41 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

I think some of you are focusing on the technology and its possible uses. 
What made me want to post this article were the philosophies on blindness 
expressed in the article and news story.

In no connection to the previous discussion of cancer on this thread, I feel

like the researchers think their discovery is analogous to finding a cure 
for cancer when they come up with this technology.  They appear to me to be 
trying to tackle tasks that any graduate of an NFB training center can 
already handle.  If I don't know what is on the counter in front of me, I 
reach out and touch it.  Let them research whatever they want to research, 
but I think these people are marked by a profound misunderstanding of 
blindness.

I don't try to fix the fact that I'm blind (as if it's something wrong with 
me); I try to fix the misunderstandings about blindness.

Justin

Justin M. Salisbury
Class of 2012
B.A. in Mathematics
East Carolina University
president at alumni.ecu.edu

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change

the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."    -MARGARET MEAD


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonboy13%40comcast.n
et 


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From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Wed May 23 21:21:08 2012
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail CMT)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 18:21:08 -0300
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJBL7zzLBHN6ij+y=oDF_NaAVfwdFBovh9mPj2njWGaNcg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD55B@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com><2CF49A7194154D06857537A1F9F11925@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CALAYQJBL7zzLBHN6ij+y=oDF_NaAVfwdFBovh9mPj2njWGaNcg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67A8A303028C4D2ABF950BBD61CDC029@userPC>

Agree with what has been said.
We also don't need things like a Braille yoga mat. The mat isn't going to
tell us how to get in and out of a yoga pose.
Rania,

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Arielle Silverman
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 6:01 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

Hi Justin,
I totally agree with you. That's why I think the technology engineers
need to really focus in on only those problems we haven't already
solved. For instance as you aptly point out, we don't need gadgets to
get around our own homes because we've come up with plenty of
techniques for that. But we don't yet have a good technique for
reading signs from far away so that's something a gadget might be able
to help us with.
Engineers need to ask us what access gaps still haven't been filled
and listen to what we have to say, instead of just designing things
that sound good to them.
Arielle

On 5/23/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonboy13 at comcast.net> wrote:
> Hello,
> True, the sighted people in engineering often want to develop things for
> blind people to use, but very few of them know blind people to ask, or
know
>
> of any professionals on blind people that could answer their questions. I
> think the root of the problem is that there aren't enough of us to go
around
>
> and the professionals or people informed about blindness are even more
rare
>
> than we are.
> I have often brought up to my college that they should start a TVI program
> and they kind of chuckle and ask me where I'll find the teachers... But
> there are so many students who are going in to special Ed that have heard
of
>
> being a teacher of the blind, but they know nothing about it. There is one
> or two places in the special Ed program that talk about blindness related
> subjects in passing, but that is often very small and obscure.
> I wonder if there could be a project/class system  or something that could
> be developed that a blind student could take to their college that teaches
> people a little about what it's like working with blind people. That way
> colleges may start taking notice of this important field and make it a
part
>
> of the class catalogue. The information just needs to get out there to the
> public.
> The best way for myths about blindness to be dispelled is for a TV show
with
>
> a blind person as the lead, acting as a blind person, to go on the air.
But
>
> idk of very many directors who would be able to find someone who could
write
>
> a good pilot script or direct the movie to show a blind person as they
> really are.
> Blindness is like Opera, people truly just don't know about it! (Les Miz
and
>
> Phantom are NOT OPERA and Dare devil and all those other blind movie
> characters aren't blind!
> Thank you,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Justin Salisbury
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:41 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
>
> I think some of you are focusing on the technology and its possible uses.
> What made me want to post this article were the philosophies on blindness
> expressed in the article and news story.
>
> In no connection to the previous discussion of cancer on this thread, I
feel
>
> like the researchers think their discovery is analogous to finding a cure
> for cancer when they come up with this technology.  They appear to me to
be
>
> trying to tackle tasks that any graduate of an NFB training center can
> already handle.  If I don't know what is on the counter in front of me, I
> reach out and touch it.  Let them research whatever they want to research,
> but I think these people are marked by a profound misunderstanding of
> blindness.
>
> I don't try to fix the fact that I'm blind (as if it's something wrong
with
>
> me); I try to fix the misunderstandings about blindness.
>
> Justin
>
> Justin M. Salisbury
> Class of 2012
> B.A. in Mathematics
> East Carolina University
> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>
> "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
change
>
> the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."    -MARGARET MEAD
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonboy13%40comcast.n
et
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>

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m



From brandonboy13 at comcast.net  Wed May 23 22:42:45 2012
From: brandonboy13 at comcast.net (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 15:42:45 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <904FF730C7C5412DA56BA09B196D8736@HUMBERTOAVILA>
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD55B@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com><2CF49A7194154D06857537A1F9F11925@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<904FF730C7C5412DA56BA09B196D8736@HUMBERTOAVILA>
Message-ID: <026A653C36964B679BB939868086DFB1@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
It was my feeling that most blind people going to college were doing STEM 
things, but the number of blind people going to college was negligible. It's 
a piece of cake getting into a STEM college, but not everyone goes to 
college... Especially if they became blind later in life.
On another note, I was stopped the other day by an     engineer who asked me
if I had any suggestions for a piece of technology that could help the 
blind. He was doing it for a school project, so I'm not sure if he took my 
suggestion or not, but there are at least some smart people out there!
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Humberto Avila
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 2:57 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

Maybe one of you students needs to go into the field of engineering so you
can help these uneducated researchers with their projects that "fix
blindness." we need more and more and more blind people in the STEM fields
that's for sure! And yes, we also need a blind celebrity that really can
apply the philosophy of blindness of the NFB in all public appearances and
performances, including TV shows and movies.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Brandon Keith Biggs
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 1:54 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

Hello,
True, the sighted people in engineering often want to develop things for
blind people to use, but very few of them know blind people to ask, or know
of any professionals on blind people that could answer their questions. I
think the root of the problem is that there aren't enough of us to go around

and the professionals or people informed about blindness are even more rare
than we are.
I have often brought up to my college that they should start a TVI program
and they kind of chuckle and ask me where I'll find the teachers... But
there are so many students who are going in to special Ed that have heard of

being a teacher of the blind, but they know nothing about it. There is one
or two places in the special Ed program that talk about blindness related
subjects in passing, but that is often very small and obscure.
I wonder if there could be a project/class system  or something that could
be developed that a blind student could take to their college that teaches
people a little about what it's like working with blind people. That way
colleges may start taking notice of this important field and make it a part
of the class catalogue. The information just needs to get out there to the
public.
The best way for myths about blindness to be dispelled is for a TV show with

a blind person as the lead, acting as a blind person, to go on the air. But
idk of very many directors who would be able to find someone who could write

a good pilot script or direct the movie to show a blind person as they
really are.
Blindness is like Opera, people truly just don't know about it! (Les Miz and

Phantom are NOT OPERA and Dare devil and all those other blind movie
characters aren't blind!
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Justin Salisbury
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:41 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

I think some of you are focusing on the technology and its possible uses.
What made me want to post this article were the philosophies on blindness
expressed in the article and news story.

In no connection to the previous discussion of cancer on this thread, I feel

like the researchers think their discovery is analogous to finding a cure
for cancer when they come up with this technology.  They appear to me to be
trying to tackle tasks that any graduate of an NFB training center can
already handle.  If I don't know what is on the counter in front of me, I
reach out and touch it.  Let them research whatever they want to research,
but I think these people are marked by a profound misunderstanding of
blindness.

I don't try to fix the fact that I'm blind (as if it's something wrong with
me); I try to fix the misunderstandings about blindness.

Justin

Justin M. Salisbury
Class of 2012
B.A. in Mathematics
East Carolina University
president at alumni.ecu.edu

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change

the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."    -MARGARET MEAD


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From chelseap08 at gmail.com  Thu May 24 00:39:06 2012
From: chelseap08 at gmail.com (Chelsea Page)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 19:39:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com>
	<00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com>
Message-ID: <002401cd3945$b0a0b060$11e21120$@gmail.com>

There is also a Scientific calculator on the Pac Mate.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Loren
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 12:22 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators

I don't know how good it is, but there is also one on the braille note or
the apex.  

Loren 


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 6:43 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators

I used that Orion calculator, that you are interested in, and I didn't have
any issues with it, so I'd recommend it.
Woohoo!
I'm a fellow Pac Mate user!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/22/12, Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Guys,
> I'm sure this question has been posted before, but I'm wondering which 
> calculators you all use? I have the Audio Graphing Calculator and the 
> Scientific calculator on my PAC Mate, but I'm looking into the Orion 
> TI-36x Scientific Calculator. I'm a computer science major so will 
> need to take physics, Calculus 3, and stats. What do you all think of 
> this calculator? Is it fine for a college student to use, or is it not 
> advanced enough? Are their any other calculators you recommend?
> Thanks!
> Jordyn
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
> ents.pccua.edu
>

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From anthony at olivero.us  Thu May 24 02:08:11 2012
From: anthony at olivero.us (Tony Olivero)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 21:08:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
In-Reply-To: <CAF2O2Cx3N+-XxkO-rKOYn3ExtS_XA1+curNtDpYUmU0ROJOUmw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4fbd1bfb.2206650a.4c57.443c@mx.google.com>
	<CAF2O2Cx3N+-XxkO-rKOYn3ExtS_XA1+curNtDpYUmU0ROJOUmw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALQ-rrOCzwPP7_uMfG4u6_+3tCKAdp_13YeBo-_r5Ea56MSWZw@mail.gmail.com>

All,

While the Trecker is quite a pricey device, I think it does what it
does extremely well and if you want a standalone unit, it's the right
tool for a lot of people. I have to disagree with Sophie about the
Navigon. I think it's a more effective program in vehicle, as aposed
to pedestrian, mode. For what it's worth, my primary use for a GPS is
as an orientation tool; I use it to know where I am if I get
misguided, I let it announce streets when I'm looking for an
unfamiliar location, and I occasionally use it for a specific routing
(though I think guiding myself and using GPS as a tool is still the
most efficient method).

Another player may be the Sendero Adventure GPS. It's new to the
market, the first I've seen about it is in Sendero's May Highlights.
Because of this, I don't know anything aboutit, but Sendero has a long
history of producing exceptional interfaces and products for blind
users and I'd recommend checking it out before you commit.

Hope these thoughts help.

tony

On 5/23/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Jordyn,
>
> The Kapten I don't think is being sold anymore and thank God as it was
> horrid. DO NOT WASTE MONEY ON IT!!
> The Breeze is outdated, horribly over-priced and under-powered, and
> lacking in many features but is the only blindness-based GPS that I
> know of at the moment. If you can get an app on the phone you are
> using, that would be great. There are various apps on various phones
> for GPS use that are accessible and that serve different functions.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 5/23/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The Navigon App for the iPhone works great. The Breeze is ok---I
>> have some experience with it--but it isn't as high-tech or
>> precise as the Navigon or other iPhone GPS app.
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com
>> To: NabsLink <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Wed, 23 May 2012 09:56:53 -0400
>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
>>
>> Hey all,
>> I seem to have lots of questions lately! :) At least it feels
>> like it.
>> Anyway, I'm wondering which, if any, GPS solutions you use? I'm
>> looking
>> into purchase a Trekker Breeze or Captain GPS.
>> I'm also not looking for a GPS solution on a notetaker such as a
>> PAC
>> Mate or a Braillenote.
>> What are your  thoughts related to the Trekker Breeze or Captain?
>> Thanks for your feedback in advance! :)
>> Jordyn
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cordially,
>
> Nimer Jaber
>
> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains
> some information about the email you have just read and all
> attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and
> methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk.
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
> you, and have a great day!
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>


From brandonboy13 at comcast.net  Thu May 24 05:33:32 2012
From: brandonboy13 at comcast.net (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Wed, 23 May 2012 22:33:32 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
In-Reply-To: <CALQ-rrOCzwPP7_uMfG4u6_+3tCKAdp_13YeBo-_r5Ea56MSWZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4fbd1bfb.2206650a.4c57.443c@mx.google.com><CAF2O2Cx3N+-XxkO-rKOYn3ExtS_XA1+curNtDpYUmU0ROJOUmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALQ-rrOCzwPP7_uMfG4u6_+3tCKAdp_13YeBo-_r5Ea56MSWZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9348311267534D4E88BE7C44C769EC33@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
It really depends what you want to do with the GPS. If you don't plan on 
using it all the time, but you want it while you are on trips, I'd recommend 
the IPhone. If you are really serious about using your GPS to go everywhere, 
I'd get the Trekker pro with the PDA.
I've not gotten in to any GPS yet, because I'd rather rely on my mobility 
skills, but I am excited to see what the Orion will have, when and if it 
comes out.
Thank you,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Tony Olivero
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 7:08 PM
To: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions

All,

While the Trecker is quite a pricey device, I think it does what it
does extremely well and if you want a standalone unit, it's the right
tool for a lot of people. I have to disagree with Sophie about the
Navigon. I think it's a more effective program in vehicle, as aposed
to pedestrian, mode. For what it's worth, my primary use for a GPS is
as an orientation tool; I use it to know where I am if I get
misguided, I let it announce streets when I'm looking for an
unfamiliar location, and I occasionally use it for a specific routing
(though I think guiding myself and using GPS as a tool is still the
most efficient method).

Another player may be the Sendero Adventure GPS. It's new to the
market, the first I've seen about it is in Sendero's May Highlights.
Because of this, I don't know anything aboutit, but Sendero has a long
history of producing exceptional interfaces and products for blind
users and I'd recommend checking it out before you commit.

Hope these thoughts help.

tony

On 5/23/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Jordyn,
>
> The Kapten I don't think is being sold anymore and thank God as it was
> horrid. DO NOT WASTE MONEY ON IT!!
> The Breeze is outdated, horribly over-priced and under-powered, and
> lacking in many features but is the only blindness-based GPS that I
> know of at the moment. If you can get an app on the phone you are
> using, that would be great. There are various apps on various phones
> for GPS use that are accessible and that serve different functions.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On 5/23/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The Navigon App for the iPhone works great. The Breeze is ok---I
>> have some experience with it--but it isn't as high-tech or
>> precise as the Navigon or other iPhone GPS app.
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com
>> To: NabsLink <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Date sent: Wed, 23 May 2012 09:56:53 -0400
>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
>>
>> Hey all,
>> I seem to have lots of questions lately! :) At least it feels
>> like it.
>> Anyway, I'm wondering which, if any, GPS solutions you use? I'm
>> looking
>> into purchase a Trekker Breeze or Captain GPS.
>> I'm also not looking for a GPS solution on a notetaker such as a
>> PAC
>> Mate or a Braillenote.
>> What are your  thoughts related to the Trekker Breeze or Captain?
>> Thanks for your feedback in advance! :)
>> Jordyn
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>> r%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cordially,
>
> Nimer Jaber
>
> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains
> some information about the email you have just read and all
> attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and
> methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk.
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
> up to you. Thanks.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
> please click here:
> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>
> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
> and above, please click here:
> http://www.nvda-project.org
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
> you, and have a great day!
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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From anjelinac26 at gmail.com  Thu May 24 09:32:22 2012
From: anjelinac26 at gmail.com (Anjelina)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 05:32:22 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <D88D6A5A-8738-4888-8FDA-3C1EF0C330B0@mac.com>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
	<D88D6A5A-8738-4888-8FDA-3C1EF0C330B0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <90B953EBB5BE4A6D96C3851DBA9FF7FF@AnjelinaPC>

Where can I find this accessible calculator? I've never heard of it.
Thanks
Anjelina

-----Original Message----- 
From: John Moore
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:05 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators

I think the TI36X is the way to go. I have been using mine for every college 
math class I have/ I do not have a specific math reqeuirement so I'm taking 
a class called Survey of Mathematics, which is a general interest course 
that covers a little bit of everything. I think this calculator is the best 
one.

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Anjelina 



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Thu May 24 09:37:52 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 04:37:52 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <90B953EBB5BE4A6D96C3851DBA9FF7FF@AnjelinaPC>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
	<D88D6A5A-8738-4888-8FDA-3C1EF0C330B0@mac.com>
	<90B953EBB5BE4A6D96C3851DBA9FF7FF@AnjelinaPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOv2h5JdA5epVVou981srpW+hObJbMj4psWmbBF=n7yvRg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, Anjelina, there are tons of talking calculators, here.
http://www.speaktomecatalog.com
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/24/12, Anjelina <anjelinac26 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Where can I find this accessible calculator? I've never heard of it.
> Thanks
> Anjelina
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Moore
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 3:05 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
>
> I think the TI36X is the way to go. I have been using mine for every college
>
> math class I have/ I do not have a specific math reqeuirement so I'm taking
>
> a class called Survey of Mathematics, which is a general interest course
> that covers a little bit of everything. I think this calculator is the best
>
> one.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anjelinac26%40gmail.com
>
>
> Anjelina
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From dandrews at visi.com  Thu May 24 13:20:38 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 08:20:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation Date
 Release
Message-ID: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>[]
>
>Press Release
>May 2012
>
>For Immediate Release
>CONTACT: Frances Mary D'Andrea, Chair
>Braille Authority of North America
>Phone: 412-521-5797
>Email: <mailto:literacy2 at mindspring.com>literacy2 at mindspring.com
>
>
>Implementation Date Set for 2011 Braille Formats
>
>
>
>On April 24, BANA released the new Braille Formats: Principles of 
>Print-to-Braille Transcription, 2011. This completely revised 
>publication is available in three accessible electronic versions: 
>enhanced PDF, BRF, and online HTML. These are available at 
><http://www.brailleauthority.org/>www.brailleauthority.org and are 
>offered without charge. Print and braille versions will be available 
>for purchase from the American Printing House for the Blind later this year.
>
>This is an extensive revision of the previous formats publication. 
>Appendix A of the new publication provides a quick reference of 
>changes and additions.
>
>The official implementation date for use of Braille Formats 2011 is 
>January 1, 2013. The principles set forth in the Braille Formats 
>2011 supersede all previous formats documents, including the rules 
>and appendices regarding formatting given in English Braille 
>American Edition (EBAE).
>
>BANA wishes to thank the tireless members of the Braille Formats 
>Technical Committee and their Chair Lynnette Taylor for their decade 
>of work and commitment that made this publication possible.
>
>
>Direct link to this press release on the BANA website: 
><http://www.brailleauthority.org/pressreleases/pr-may2012.html>http://www.brailleauthority.org/pressreleases/pr-may2012.html
>
>
>
>For additional resource information, visit 
><http://www.brailleauthority.org/>www.brailleauthority.org
>
>
>
>The mission and purpose of the Braille Authority of North America 
>are to assure literacy for tactile readers through the 
>standardization of braille and/or tactile graphics. BANA promotes 
>and facilitates the use, teaching, and production of braille. It 
>publishes rules, interprets, and renders opinions pertaining to 
>braille in all existing codes. It deals with codes now in existence 
>or to be developed in the future, in collaboration with other 
>countries using English braille. In exercising its function and 
>authority, BANA considers the effects of its decisions on other 
>existing braille codes and formats; the ease of production by 
>various methods; and acceptability to readers.
-------------- next part --------------
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From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Thu May 24 14:21:38 2012
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 07:21:38 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation
	Date Release
In-Reply-To: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
The article didn't come through.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: David Andrews
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation Date 
Release

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Thu May 24 14:49:43 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 09:49:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation
	Date Release
In-Reply-To: <3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com>

I think the formats that wil be emplemented, will also be the changes
to the Nemeth Braille code, for math, that I've been fighting against.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> The article didn't come through.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Andrews
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation Date
> Release
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From dandrews at visi.com  Thu May 24 16:18:38 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 11:18:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille support goes Android with Mobile Accessibility
Message-ID: <auto-000062433050@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>
>Braille support goes Android with MA
>
>
>Braille support goes Android with Mobile Accessibility, just in time 
>for Sight City in Frankfurt
>
>
>
>
>
>Code Factory's Mobile Accessibility: first ever software application 
>that allows the use of a Braille display on Android!
>
>
>
>Terrassa (Barcelona), Spain, May 24th 2012
>
>After launching Mobile Accessibility in March 2011 and with more 
>than 35.000 downloads worldwide, Code Factory has worked for months 
>to make Braille display usage possible with the product. Once more, 
>we have listened to our customers and turned their desires into reality.
>
>"Based on the tremendous response from our customers, we have been 
>more than motivated to keep improving this product and make the 
>impossible possible: add Braille support for the first time on this 
>platform" says Eduard Sanchez, CEO.  "Our ambition is to keep 
>improving our products and keep up with the constant OS updates and 
>add new features that add value to our products."
>
>This free upgrade is available for all our customers, whether 
>purchased in Google from one of our distributors, the free download 
>version of AT&T Mobile Accessibility Lite from AT&T, or Wireless 
>Accessibility from Sprint, Boost Mobile and Virgin Mobile USA. It 
>includes the following Braille features:
>
>
>a.    Use the power of a Braille display in the same way as on a 
>computer and similar to what is available with Mobile Speak 4 and above.
>b.    Enabling a solution for Deaf Blind users to be able to use 
>Android devices for the first time.
>c.    Ability to use various grades, including grade 1 / 2 and 
>computer Braille for both input and output.
>d.    Option to disable speech when Braille is turned on, allowing 
>users to work in silent environments like meetings.
>
>
>
>Devices of the following Braille device manufacturers are supported: 
>Baum, Eurobraille, Freedom Scientific, Handytech, HIMS, Humanware and Optelec.
>
>This free update is now available 
>at: 
><http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=2163306&msgid=122432&act=DW2E&c=1030778&destination=https%3A%2F%2Fplay.google.com%2Fstore%2Fapps%2Fdeveloper%3Fid%3DCode%2BFactory>https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=Code+Factory 
>
>
>
>To upgrade, go to the Market application or check for an available 
>upgrade in your "My apps" list. If you have purchased from one of 
>our distributors, please contact them to receive the latest version 
>of the product.
>
>To consult the user guide or quick start guide of Mobile 
>Accessibility, visit 
><http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=2163306&msgid=122432&act=DW2E&c=1030778&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.codefactory.es%2Fen%2Fmanuals.asp%3Fid%3D89%23family_ma>http://www.codefactory.es/en/manuals.asp?id=89#family_ma. 
>For technical assistance, please submit a ticket through our Help 
>Desk at 
><http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=2163306&msgid=122432&act=DW2E&c=1030778&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.codefactory.cat%2Fhelpdesk%2F>http://www.codefactory.cat/helpdesk/.
>
>To lear
>
>For more information, feel free to contact Code Factory S.L.:
>Code Factory, S.L., C/ Major 19, 2-3, 08221 Terrassa (Barcelona) 
><http://click.icptrack.com/icp/relay.php?r=2163306&msgid=122432&act=DW2E&c=1030778&destination=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.codefactory.cat%2Fhelpdesk%2F>HelpDesk, 
>www.codefactory.es Code Factory, S.L. - 2012
>
>
>
>This message was sent to david.andrews at nfbnet.org from:
>
>Code Factory, S.L. | Major, 19, 2-3 | Terrassa, Barcelona 08221, Spain

From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Thu May 24 19:03:30 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:03:30 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation
	Date Release
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com>

I don't see why BANA feels it must change the perfectly good Nemeth code that millions of blind users already know. There's nothing wrong with Nemeth.Sent from my iPhone

On May 24, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:

> I think the formats that wil be emplemented, will also be the changes
> to the Nemeth Braille code, for math, that I've been fighting against.
> Blessings, Joshua
> 
> On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> The article didn't come through.
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David Andrews
>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation Date
>> Release
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Thu May 24 19:11:13 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:11:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
In-Reply-To: <CALQ-rrOCzwPP7_uMfG4u6_+3tCKAdp_13YeBo-_r5Ea56MSWZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4fbd1bfb.2206650a.4c57.443c@mx.google.com>
	<CAF2O2Cx3N+-XxkO-rKOYn3ExtS_XA1+curNtDpYUmU0ROJOUmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALQ-rrOCzwPP7_uMfG4u6_+3tCKAdp_13YeBo-_r5Ea56MSWZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FD995E97-925C-492E-B8D8-35698CA8C39A@gmail.com>

The braillenote has a Sendero GPS built in that is complex and inefficient.
Sent from my iPhone

On May 23, 2012, at 9:08 PM, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:

> All,
> 
> While the Trecker is quite a pricey device, I think it does what it
> does extremely well and if you want a standalone unit, it's the right
> tool for a lot of people. I have to disagree with Sophie about the
> Navigon. I think it's a more effective program in vehicle, as aposed
> to pedestrian, mode. For what it's worth, my primary use for a GPS is
> as an orientation tool; I use it to know where I am if I get
> misguided, I let it announce streets when I'm looking for an
> unfamiliar location, and I occasionally use it for a specific routing
> (though I think guiding myself and using GPS as a tool is still the
> most efficient method).
> 
> Another player may be the Sendero Adventure GPS. It's new to the
> market, the first I've seen about it is in Sendero's May Highlights.
> Because of this, I don't know anything aboutit, but Sendero has a long
> history of producing exceptional interfaces and products for blind
> users and I'd recommend checking it out before you commit.
> 
> Hope these thoughts help.
> 
> tony
> 
> On 5/23/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello Jordyn,
>> 
>> The Kapten I don't think is being sold anymore and thank God as it was
>> horrid. DO NOT WASTE MONEY ON IT!!
>> The Breeze is outdated, horribly over-priced and under-powered, and
>> lacking in many features but is the only blindness-based GPS that I
>> know of at the moment. If you can get an app on the phone you are
>> using, that would be great. There are various apps on various phones
>> for GPS use that are accessible and that serve different functions.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> On 5/23/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The Navigon App for the iPhone works great. The Breeze is ok---I
>>> have some experience with it--but it isn't as high-tech or
>>> precise as the Navigon or other iPhone GPS app.
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com
>>> To: NabsLink <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Date sent: Wed, 23 May 2012 09:56:53 -0400
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
>>> 
>>> Hey all,
>>> I seem to have lots of questions lately! :) At least it feels
>>> like it.
>>> Anyway, I'm wondering which, if any, GPS solutions you use? I'm
>>> looking
>>> into purchase a Trekker Breeze or Captain GPS.
>>> I'm also not looking for a GPS solution on a notetaker such as a
>>> PAC
>>> Mate or a Braillenote.
>>> What are your  thoughts related to the Trekker Breeze or Captain?
>>> Thanks for your feedback in advance! :)
>>> Jordyn
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>> r%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Cordially,
>> 
>> Nimer Jaber
>> 
>> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains
>> some information about the email you have just read and all
>> attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and
>> methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk.
>> 
>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>> up to you. Thanks.
>> 
>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>> http://counter.li.org/
>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>> please click here:
>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>> 
>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>> and above, please click here:
>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>> 
>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>> 
>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>> 
>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
>> you, and have a great day!
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Thu May 24 19:12:49 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:12:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <002401cd3945$b0a0b060$11e21120$@gmail.com>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com>
	<00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com>
	<002401cd3945$b0a0b060$11e21120$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <087088E8-0FF9-4740-BB27-114600AB85D9@gmail.com>

And the braillenote.
Sent from my iPhone

On May 23, 2012, at 7:39 PM, "Chelsea Page" <chelseap08 at gmail.com> wrote:

> There is also a Scientific calculator on the Pac Mate.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Loren
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 12:22 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
> 
> I don't know how good it is, but there is also one on the braille note or
> the apex.  
> 
> Loren 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Joshua Lester
> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 6:43 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
> 
> I used that Orion calculator, that you are interested in, and I didn't have
> any issues with it, so I'd recommend it.
> Woohoo!
> I'm a fellow Pac Mate user!
> Blessings, Joshua
> 
> On 5/22/12, Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey Guys,
>> I'm sure this question has been posted before, but I'm wondering which 
>> calculators you all use? I have the Audio Graphing Calculator and the 
>> Scientific calculator on my PAC Mate, but I'm looking into the Orion 
>> TI-36x Scientific Calculator. I'm a computer science major so will 
>> need to take physics, Calculus 3, and stats. What do you all think of 
>> this calculator? Is it fine for a college student to use, or is it not 
>> advanced enough? Are their any other calculators you recommend?
>> Thanks!
>> Jordyn
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
>> ents.pccua.edu
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com


From kobycox at gmail.com  Thu May 24 19:14:44 2012
From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:14:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
In-Reply-To: <FD995E97-925C-492E-B8D8-35698CA8C39A@gmail.com>
References: <4fbd1bfb.2206650a.4c57.443c@mx.google.com>
	<CAF2O2Cx3N+-XxkO-rKOYn3ExtS_XA1+curNtDpYUmU0ROJOUmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALQ-rrOCzwPP7_uMfG4u6_+3tCKAdp_13YeBo-_r5Ea56MSWZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD995E97-925C-492E-B8D8-35698CA8C39A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18CE3C71-457C-4DD0-B773-AD595417AA4E@gmail.com>

What do you mean when you say that? 

Koby
Sent from my iPhone

On May 24, 2012, at 2:11 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:

> The braillenote has a Sendero GPS built in that is complex and inefficient.
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On May 23, 2012, at 9:08 PM, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:
> 
>> All,
>> 
>> While the Trecker is quite a pricey device, I think it does what it
>> does extremely well and if you want a standalone unit, it's the right
>> tool for a lot of people. I have to disagree with Sophie about the
>> Navigon. I think it's a more effective program in vehicle, as aposed
>> to pedestrian, mode. For what it's worth, my primary use for a GPS is
>> as an orientation tool; I use it to know where I am if I get
>> misguided, I let it announce streets when I'm looking for an
>> unfamiliar location, and I occasionally use it for a specific routing
>> (though I think guiding myself and using GPS as a tool is still the
>> most efficient method).
>> 
>> Another player may be the Sendero Adventure GPS. It's new to the
>> market, the first I've seen about it is in Sendero's May Highlights.
>> Because of this, I don't know anything aboutit, but Sendero has a long
>> history of producing exceptional interfaces and products for blind
>> users and I'd recommend checking it out before you commit.
>> 
>> Hope these thoughts help.
>> 
>> tony
>> 
>> On 5/23/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello Jordyn,
>>> 
>>> The Kapten I don't think is being sold anymore and thank God as it was
>>> horrid. DO NOT WASTE MONEY ON IT!!
>>> The Breeze is outdated, horribly over-priced and under-powered, and
>>> lacking in many features but is the only blindness-based GPS that I
>>> know of at the moment. If you can get an app on the phone you are
>>> using, that would be great. There are various apps on various phones
>>> for GPS use that are accessible and that serve different functions.
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> On 5/23/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> The Navigon App for the iPhone works great. The Breeze is ok---I
>>>> have some experience with it--but it isn't as high-tech or
>>>> precise as the Navigon or other iPhone GPS app.
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com
>>>> To: NabsLink <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> Date sent: Wed, 23 May 2012 09:56:53 -0400
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
>>>> 
>>>> Hey all,
>>>> I seem to have lots of questions lately! :) At least it feels
>>>> like it.
>>>> Anyway, I'm wondering which, if any, GPS solutions you use? I'm
>>>> looking
>>>> into purchase a Trekker Breeze or Captain GPS.
>>>> I'm also not looking for a GPS solution on a notetaker such as a
>>>> PAC
>>>> Mate or a Braillenote.
>>>> What are your  thoughts related to the Trekker Breeze or Captain?
>>>> Thanks for your feedback in advance! :)
>>>> Jordyn
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Cordially,
>>> 
>>> Nimer Jaber
>>> 
>>> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains
>>> some information about the email you have just read and all
>>> attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and
>>> methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk.
>>> 
>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>> please click here:
>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>> 
>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>> and above, please click here:
>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>> 
>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>> 
>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>> 
>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
>>> you, and have a great day!
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Thu May 24 19:15:26 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:15:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation
	Date Release
In-Reply-To: <D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com>
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOv6zidD7KPJXEUFwLe2R2H===E5XcjiA=zoDEa05JZE3g@mail.gmail.com>

They want to make it fit with print math.
They want to make it more like literary Braille, so they say.
That's impossible!
Good grief!
I'm of the old school view of "if it ain't broke, don't try to fix it,
(pardon the grammar!)
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/24/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't see why BANA feels it must change the perfectly good Nemeth code
> that millions of blind users already know. There's nothing wrong with
> Nemeth.Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 24, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> I think the formats that wil be emplemented, will also be the changes
>> to the Nemeth Braille code, for math, that I've been fighting against.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hello,
>>> The article didn't come through.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: David Andrews
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
>>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation
>>> Date
>>> Release
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Thu May 24 19:16:34 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:16:34 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <087088E8-0FF9-4740-BB27-114600AB85D9@gmail.com>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com>
	<00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com>
	<002401cd3945$b0a0b060$11e21120$@gmail.com>
	<087088E8-0FF9-4740-BB27-114600AB85D9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOts8TsQJLcxuYef7dspuaX9m+uTXyobbjtcB1gwW1+5zA@mail.gmail.com>

Yeah, but the Braillenote isn't as efficient as the Pac Mate.
Just saying!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/24/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> And the braillenote.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 23, 2012, at 7:39 PM, "Chelsea Page" <chelseap08 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There is also a Scientific calculator on the Pac Mate.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Loren
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 12:22 PM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
>>
>> I don't know how good it is, but there is also one on the braille note or
>> the apex.
>>
>> Loren
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 6:43 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
>>
>> I used that Orion calculator, that you are interested in, and I didn't
>> have
>> any issues with it, so I'd recommend it.
>> Woohoo!
>> I'm a fellow Pac Mate user!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/22/12, Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hey Guys,
>>> I'm sure this question has been posted before, but I'm wondering which
>>> calculators you all use? I have the Audio Graphing Calculator and the
>>> Scientific calculator on my PAC Mate, but I'm looking into the Orion
>>> TI-36x Scientific Calculator. I'm a computer science major so will
>>> need to take physics, Calculus 3, and stats. What do you all think of
>>> this calculator? Is it fine for a college student to use, or is it not
>>> advanced enough? Are their any other calculators you recommend?
>>> Thanks!
>>> Jordyn
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
>>> ents.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Thu May 24 19:18:17 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:18:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
In-Reply-To: <18CE3C71-457C-4DD0-B773-AD595417AA4E@gmail.com>
References: <4fbd1bfb.2206650a.4c57.443c@mx.google.com>
	<CAF2O2Cx3N+-XxkO-rKOYn3ExtS_XA1+curNtDpYUmU0ROJOUmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALQ-rrOCzwPP7_uMfG4u6_+3tCKAdp_13YeBo-_r5Ea56MSWZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD995E97-925C-492E-B8D8-35698CA8C39A@gmail.com>
	<18CE3C71-457C-4DD0-B773-AD595417AA4E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOuAXE-YkRVPe+BZRZNxRaskgF7-zviYR=-k7cU85K5Brw@mail.gmail.com>

I just want to reply to this post, by saying this!
Welcome back, Koby!
Good to see you posting here again!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/24/12, Koby <kobycox at gmail.com> wrote:
> What do you mean when you say that?
>
> Koby
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 24, 2012, at 2:11 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The braillenote has a Sendero GPS built in that is complex and
>> inefficient.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 23, 2012, at 9:08 PM, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:
>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> While the Trecker is quite a pricey device, I think it does what it
>>> does extremely well and if you want a standalone unit, it's the right
>>> tool for a lot of people. I have to disagree with Sophie about the
>>> Navigon. I think it's a more effective program in vehicle, as aposed
>>> to pedestrian, mode. For what it's worth, my primary use for a GPS is
>>> as an orientation tool; I use it to know where I am if I get
>>> misguided, I let it announce streets when I'm looking for an
>>> unfamiliar location, and I occasionally use it for a specific routing
>>> (though I think guiding myself and using GPS as a tool is still the
>>> most efficient method).
>>>
>>> Another player may be the Sendero Adventure GPS. It's new to the
>>> market, the first I've seen about it is in Sendero's May Highlights.
>>> Because of this, I don't know anything aboutit, but Sendero has a long
>>> history of producing exceptional interfaces and products for blind
>>> users and I'd recommend checking it out before you commit.
>>>
>>> Hope these thoughts help.
>>>
>>> tony
>>>
>>> On 5/23/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Jordyn,
>>>>
>>>> The Kapten I don't think is being sold anymore and thank God as it was
>>>> horrid. DO NOT WASTE MONEY ON IT!!
>>>> The Breeze is outdated, horribly over-priced and under-powered, and
>>>> lacking in many features but is the only blindness-based GPS that I
>>>> know of at the moment. If you can get an app on the phone you are
>>>> using, that would be great. There are various apps on various phones
>>>> for GPS use that are accessible and that serve different functions.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> On 5/23/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> The Navigon App for the iPhone works great. The Breeze is ok---I
>>>>> have some experience with it--but it isn't as high-tech or
>>>>> precise as the Navigon or other iPhone GPS app.
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: NabsLink <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 23 May 2012 09:56:53 -0400
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>> I seem to have lots of questions lately! :) At least it feels
>>>>> like it.
>>>>> Anyway, I'm wondering which, if any, GPS solutions you use? I'm
>>>>> looking
>>>>> into purchase a Trekker Breeze or Captain GPS.
>>>>> I'm also not looking for a GPS solution on a notetaker such as a
>>>>> PAC
>>>>> Mate or a Braillenote.
>>>>> What are your  thoughts related to the Trekker Breeze or Captain?
>>>>> Thanks for your feedback in advance! :)
>>>>> Jordyn
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Cordially,
>>>>
>>>> Nimer Jaber
>>>>
>>>> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains
>>>> some information about the email you have just read and all
>>>> attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and
>>>> methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk.
>>>>
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
>>>> you, and have a great day!
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us
>>>>
>>>
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Thu May 24 19:19:24 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:19:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <2CF49A7194154D06857537A1F9F11925@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD55B@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
	<2CF49A7194154D06857537A1F9F11925@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <4B8EA3D0-17EF-45E4-9644-E5E2F41AA264@gmail.com>

If more colleges had TVI programs available, we could get more good TVIs that we need.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 23, 2012, at 3:53 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonboy13 at comcast.net> wrote:

> Hello,
> True, the sighted people in engineering often want to develop things for blind people to use, but very few of them know blind people to ask, or know of any professionals on blind people that could answer their questions. I think the root of the problem is that there aren’t enough of us to go around and the professionals or people informed about blindness are even more rare than we are.
> I have often brought up to my college that they should start a TVI program and they kind of chuckle and ask me where I'll find the teachers... But there are so many students who are going in to special Ed that have heard of being a teacher of the blind, but they know nothing about it. There is one or two places in the special Ed program that talk about blindness related subjects in passing, but that is often very small and obscure.
> I wonder if there could be a project/class system  or something that could be developed that a blind student could take to their college that teaches people a little about what it's like working with blind people. That way colleges may start taking notice of this important field and make it a part of the class catalogue. The information just needs to get out there to the public.
> The best way for myths about blindness to be dispelled is for a TV show with a blind person as the lead, acting as a blind person, to go on the air. But idk of very many directors who would be able to find someone who could write a good pilot script or direct the movie to show a blind person as they really are.
> Blindness is like Opera, people truly just don't know about it! (Les Miz and Phantom are NOT OPERA and Dare devil and all those other blind movie characters aren’t blind!
> Thank you,
> 
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- From: Justin Salisbury
> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:41 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
> 
> I think some of you are focusing on the technology and its possible uses. What made me want to post this article were the philosophies on blindness expressed in the article and news story.
> 
> In no connection to the previous discussion of cancer on this thread, I feel like the researchers think their discovery is analogous to finding a cure for cancer when they come up with this technology.  They appear to me to be trying to tackle tasks that any graduate of an NFB training center can already handle.  If I don't know what is on the counter in front of me, I reach out and touch it.  Let them research whatever they want to research, but I think these people are marked by a profound misunderstanding of blindness.
> 
> I don't try to fix the fact that I'm blind (as if it's something wrong with me); I try to fix the misunderstandings about blindness.
> 
> Justin
> 
> Justin M. Salisbury
> Class of 2012
> B.A. in Mathematics
> East Carolina University
> president at alumni.ecu.edu
> 
> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET MEAD
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonboy13%40comcast.net 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com


From coasterfreak88 at mac.com  Thu May 24 19:23:54 2012
From: coasterfreak88 at mac.com (John Moore)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:23:54 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOts8TsQJLcxuYef7dspuaX9m+uTXyobbjtcB1gwW1+5zA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com>
	<00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com>
	<002401cd3945$b0a0b060$11e21120$@gmail.com>
	<087088E8-0FF9-4740-BB27-114600AB85D9@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOts8TsQJLcxuYef7dspuaX9m+uTXyobbjtcB1gwW1+5zA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4C2E3A74-34FA-45C0-951B-11D632A63DBF@mac.com>

Do you want to start our old argument again Josh? Lol. Personally, I don't think notetaker calculators are as good as dedicated ones like the Orion. THe Orion has more functionality than both notetakers put together.


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Thu May 24 19:23:41 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:23:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
In-Reply-To: <18CE3C71-457C-4DD0-B773-AD595417AA4E@gmail.com>
References: <4fbd1bfb.2206650a.4c57.443c@mx.google.com>
	<CAF2O2Cx3N+-XxkO-rKOYn3ExtS_XA1+curNtDpYUmU0ROJOUmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALQ-rrOCzwPP7_uMfG4u6_+3tCKAdp_13YeBo-_r5Ea56MSWZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD995E97-925C-492E-B8D8-35698CA8C39A@gmail.com>
	<18CE3C71-457C-4DD0-B773-AD595417AA4E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <14582806-2DBC-4E96-BA20-D85D641F8AD9@gmail.com>

I mean that from my experience, I wouldn't go with a Sendero GPS.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 24, 2012, at 2:14 PM, Koby <kobycox at gmail.com> wrote:

> What do you mean when you say that? 
> 
> Koby
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On May 24, 2012, at 2:11 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> The braillenote has a Sendero GPS built in that is complex and inefficient.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On May 23, 2012, at 9:08 PM, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:
>> 
>>> All,
>>> 
>>> While the Trecker is quite a pricey device, I think it does what it
>>> does extremely well and if you want a standalone unit, it's the right
>>> tool for a lot of people. I have to disagree with Sophie about the
>>> Navigon. I think it's a more effective program in vehicle, as aposed
>>> to pedestrian, mode. For what it's worth, my primary use for a GPS is
>>> as an orientation tool; I use it to know where I am if I get
>>> misguided, I let it announce streets when I'm looking for an
>>> unfamiliar location, and I occasionally use it for a specific routing
>>> (though I think guiding myself and using GPS as a tool is still the
>>> most efficient method).
>>> 
>>> Another player may be the Sendero Adventure GPS. It's new to the
>>> market, the first I've seen about it is in Sendero's May Highlights.
>>> Because of this, I don't know anything aboutit, but Sendero has a long
>>> history of producing exceptional interfaces and products for blind
>>> users and I'd recommend checking it out before you commit.
>>> 
>>> Hope these thoughts help.
>>> 
>>> tony
>>> 
>>> On 5/23/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hello Jordyn,
>>>> 
>>>> The Kapten I don't think is being sold anymore and thank God as it was
>>>> horrid. DO NOT WASTE MONEY ON IT!!
>>>> The Breeze is outdated, horribly over-priced and under-powered, and
>>>> lacking in many features but is the only blindness-based GPS that I
>>>> know of at the moment. If you can get an app on the phone you are
>>>> using, that would be great. There are various apps on various phones
>>>> for GPS use that are accessible and that serve different functions.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> 
>>>> On 5/23/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> The Navigon App for the iPhone works great. The Breeze is ok---I
>>>>> have some experience with it--but it isn't as high-tech or
>>>>> precise as the Navigon or other iPhone GPS app.
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com
>>>>> To: NabsLink <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 23 May 2012 09:56:53 -0400
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>> I seem to have lots of questions lately! :) At least it feels
>>>>> like it.
>>>>> Anyway, I'm wondering which, if any, GPS solutions you use? I'm
>>>>> looking
>>>>> into purchase a Trekker Breeze or Captain GPS.
>>>>> I'm also not looking for a GPS solution on a notetaker such as a
>>>>> PAC
>>>>> Mate or a Braillenote.
>>>>> What are your  thoughts related to the Trekker Breeze or Captain?
>>>>> Thanks for your feedback in advance! :)
>>>>> Jordyn
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Cordially,
>>>> 
>>>> Nimer Jaber
>>>> 
>>>> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains
>>>> some information about the email you have just read and all
>>>> attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and
>>>> methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk.
>>>> 
>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>> 
>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>> please click here:
>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>> 
>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>> 
>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>> 
>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>> 
>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
>>>> you, and have a great day!
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Thu May 24 19:28:42 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:28:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOts8TsQJLcxuYef7dspuaX9m+uTXyobbjtcB1gwW1+5zA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com>
	<00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com>
	<002401cd3945$b0a0b060$11e21120$@gmail.com>
	<087088E8-0FF9-4740-BB27-114600AB85D9@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOts8TsQJLcxuYef7dspuaX9m+uTXyobbjtcB1gwW1+5zA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B46FCEF9-6B01-4F05-B851-10BF43AB3022@gmail.com>

I tried a Pac Mate before I got my braillenote and hated it. No ofense, but i find the braillenote much more user-friendly.f

Sent from my iPhone

On May 24, 2012, at 2:16 PM, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:

> Yeah, but the Braillenote isn't as efficient as the Pac Mate.
> Just saying!
> Blessings, Joshua
> 
> On 5/24/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> And the braillenote.
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On May 23, 2012, at 7:39 PM, "Chelsea Page" <chelseap08 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> There is also a Scientific calculator on the Pac Mate.
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Loren
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 12:22 PM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
>>> 
>>> I don't know how good it is, but there is also one on the braille note or
>>> the apex.
>>> 
>>> Loren
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Joshua Lester
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 6:43 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
>>> 
>>> I used that Orion calculator, that you are interested in, and I didn't
>>> have
>>> any issues with it, so I'd recommend it.
>>> Woohoo!
>>> I'm a fellow Pac Mate user!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>> 
>>> On 5/22/12, Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hey Guys,
>>>> I'm sure this question has been posted before, but I'm wondering which
>>>> calculators you all use? I have the Audio Graphing Calculator and the
>>>> Scientific calculator on my PAC Mate, but I'm looking into the Orion
>>>> TI-36x Scientific Calculator. I'm a computer science major so will
>>>> need to take physics, Calculus 3, and stats. What do you all think of
>>>> this calculator? Is it fine for a college student to use, or is it not
>>>> advanced enough? Are their any other calculators you recommend?
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> Jordyn
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
>>>> ents.pccua.edu
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/isaiah5719%40mchsi.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From coasterfreak88 at mac.com  Thu May 24 19:30:05 2012
From: coasterfreak88 at mac.com (John Moore)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:30:05 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <B46FCEF9-6B01-4F05-B851-10BF43AB3022@gmail.com>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com>
	<00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com>
	<002401cd3945$b0a0b060$11e21120$@gmail.com>
	<087088E8-0FF9-4740-BB27-114600AB85D9@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOts8TsQJLcxuYef7dspuaX9m+uTXyobbjtcB1gwW1+5zA@mail.gmail.com>
	<B46FCEF9-6B01-4F05-B851-10BF43AB3022@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1F750CD1-87BA-4E13-8C4F-798F35E3C9AD@mac.com>

I agree with you completely Sophie. THe BN is definitely more user-friendly.


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Thu May 24 19:33:55 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:33:55 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <4C2E3A74-34FA-45C0-951B-11D632A63DBF@mac.com>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com>
	<00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com>
	<002401cd3945$b0a0b060$11e21120$@gmail.com>
	<087088E8-0FF9-4740-BB27-114600AB85D9@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOts8TsQJLcxuYef7dspuaX9m+uTXyobbjtcB1gwW1+5zA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C2E3A74-34FA-45C0-951B-11D632A63DBF@mac.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOu80-7pQYaOQtOZtgK1nh3HsBFE3b6fkypugLQ2WM9RHA@mail.gmail.com>

Humanware could lose the unnecessary compartments, on the Braillenote.
John's right, that the Orion is better.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/24/12, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
> Do you want to start our old argument again Josh? Lol. Personally, I don't
> think notetaker calculators are as good as dedicated ones like the Orion.
> THe Orion has more functionality than both notetakers put together.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Thu May 24 19:36:36 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:36:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <4C2E3A74-34FA-45C0-951B-11D632A63DBF@mac.com>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com>
	<00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com>
	<002401cd3945$b0a0b060$11e21120$@gmail.com>
	<087088E8-0FF9-4740-BB27-114600AB85D9@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOts8TsQJLcxuYef7dspuaX9m+uTXyobbjtcB1gwW1+5zA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C2E3A74-34FA-45C0-951B-11D632A63DBF@mac.com>
Message-ID: <79E9BC30-B1FA-4381-B8D6-983AF1D7CA48@gmail.com>

It all depends on the math classes u wanna take. If you plan on taking advanced courses, you need a calculator like Orion. If you only plan on doing regular math, a note taker calculator is fine.
Sent from my iPhone

On May 24, 2012, at 2:23 PM, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:

> Do you want to start our old argument again Josh? Lol. Personally, I don't think notetaker calculators are as good as dedicated ones like the Orion. THe Orion has more functionality than both notetakers put together.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Thu May 24 19:38:40 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:38:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <4B8EA3D0-17EF-45E4-9644-E5E2F41AA264@gmail.com>
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD55B@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
	<2CF49A7194154D06857537A1F9F11925@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<4B8EA3D0-17EF-45E4-9644-E5E2F41AA264@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvvSvHeMHij+U7P1aY2C50mZwLhZwoxE3OGPXdvtO5Dow@mail.gmail.com>

Brandon:
Ask your college, to allow you to do, what I'm doing, this October,
(Lord willing.)
Since October is Meet the Blind Month, I'm going to do a seminar on
blindness related stuff, at my college, showing what I do, and how I
do things.
I'd even show them the courtesy rules, that are mentioned.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/24/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> If more colleges had TVI programs available, we could get more good TVIs
> that we need.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 23, 2012, at 3:53 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
> <brandonboy13 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> True, the sighted people in engineering often want to develop things for
>> blind people to use, but very few of them know blind people to ask, or
>> know of any professionals on blind people that could answer their
>> questions. I think the root of the problem is that there aren’t enough of
>> us to go around and the professionals or people informed about blindness
>> are even more rare than we are.
>> I have often brought up to my college that they should start a TVI program
>> and they kind of chuckle and ask me where I'll find the teachers... But
>> there are so many students who are going in to special Ed that have heard
>> of being a teacher of the blind, but they know nothing about it. There is
>> one or two places in the special Ed program that talk about blindness
>> related subjects in passing, but that is often very small and obscure.
>> I wonder if there could be a project/class system  or something that could
>> be developed that a blind student could take to their college that teaches
>> people a little about what it's like working with blind people. That way
>> colleges may start taking notice of this important field and make it a
>> part of the class catalogue. The information just needs to get out there
>> to the public.
>> The best way for myths about blindness to be dispelled is for a TV show
>> with a blind person as the lead, acting as a blind person, to go on the
>> air. But idk of very many directors who would be able to find someone who
>> could write a good pilot script or direct the movie to show a blind person
>> as they really are.
>> Blindness is like Opera, people truly just don't know about it! (Les Miz
>> and Phantom are NOT OPERA and Dare devil and all those other blind movie
>> characters aren’t blind!
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message----- From: Justin Salisbury
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:41 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
>>
>> I think some of you are focusing on the technology and its possible uses.
>> What made me want to post this article were the philosophies on blindness
>> expressed in the article and news story.
>>
>> In no connection to the previous discussion of cancer on this thread, I
>> feel like the researchers think their discovery is analogous to finding a
>> cure for cancer when they come up with this technology.  They appear to me
>> to be trying to tackle tasks that any graduate of an NFB training center
>> can already handle.  If I don't know what is on the counter in front of
>> me, I reach out and touch it.  Let them research whatever they want to
>> research, but I think these people are marked by a profound
>> misunderstanding of blindness.
>>
>> I don't try to fix the fact that I'm blind (as if it's something wrong
>> with me); I try to fix the misunderstandings about blindness.
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> Justin M. Salisbury
>> Class of 2012
>> B.A. in Mathematics
>> East Carolina University
>> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>>
>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
>> change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.”    —MARGARET
>> MEAD
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonboy13%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Thu May 24 19:39:21 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:39:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOu80-7pQYaOQtOZtgK1nh3HsBFE3b6fkypugLQ2WM9RHA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com>
	<00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com>
	<002401cd3945$b0a0b060$11e21120$@gmail.com>
	<087088E8-0FF9-4740-BB27-114600AB85D9@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOts8TsQJLcxuYef7dspuaX9m+uTXyobbjtcB1gwW1+5zA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C2E3A74-34FA-45C0-951B-11D632A63DBF@mac.com>
	<CAO83KOu80-7pQYaOQtOZtgK1nh3HsBFE3b6fkypugLQ2WM9RHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <534904DC-9589-477A-A1B0-A8F27A3BDB1E@gmail.com>

What unnecessary compartments?
Sent from my iPhone

On May 24, 2012, at 2:33 PM, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:

> Humanware could lose the unnecessary compartments, on the Braillenote.
> John's right, that the Orion is better.
> Blessings, Joshua
> 
> On 5/24/12, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
>> Do you want to start our old argument again Josh? Lol. Personally, I don't
>> think notetaker calculators are as good as dedicated ones like the Orion.
>> THe Orion has more functionality than both notetakers put together.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Thu May 24 19:43:53 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:43:53 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <534904DC-9589-477A-A1B0-A8F27A3BDB1E@gmail.com>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com>
	<00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com>
	<002401cd3945$b0a0b060$11e21120$@gmail.com>
	<087088E8-0FF9-4740-BB27-114600AB85D9@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOts8TsQJLcxuYef7dspuaX9m+uTXyobbjtcB1gwW1+5zA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C2E3A74-34FA-45C0-951B-11D632A63DBF@mac.com>
	<CAO83KOu80-7pQYaOQtOZtgK1nh3HsBFE3b6fkypugLQ2WM9RHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<534904DC-9589-477A-A1B0-A8F27A3BDB1E@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtq2Ok6BFEfpnvn2cc5vagFbgSvsoJev3kcm7eJbeWhNQ@mail.gmail.com>

There are tons of compartments, that snap, and unsnap.
We don't need all of that.
Also, the BN doesn't have a carrying case.
You have to purchase one.
The Pac Mate has one that comes with it, and you don't have to pay for the case!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/24/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> What unnecessary compartments?
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 24, 2012, at 2:33 PM, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Humanware could lose the unnecessary compartments, on the Braillenote.
>> John's right, that the Orion is better.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/24/12, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
>>> Do you want to start our old argument again Josh? Lol. Personally, I
>>> don't
>>> think notetaker calculators are as good as dedicated ones like the
>>> Orion.
>>> THe Orion has more functionality than both notetakers put together.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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From coasterfreak88 at mac.com  Thu May 24 19:45:28 2012
From: coasterfreak88 at mac.com (John Moore)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:45:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <79E9BC30-B1FA-4381-B8D6-983AF1D7CA48@gmail.com>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com>
	<00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com>
	<002401cd3945$b0a0b060$11e21120$@gmail.com>
	<087088E8-0FF9-4740-BB27-114600AB85D9@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOts8TsQJLcxuYef7dspuaX9m+uTXyobbjtcB1gwW1+5zA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C2E3A74-34FA-45C0-951B-11D632A63DBF@mac.com>
	<79E9BC30-B1FA-4381-B8D6-983AF1D7CA48@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2B040B42-3305-4C1D-A3E2-FD6AB695189A@mac.com>

That's a good point.


From hope.paulos at gmail.com  Thu May 24 20:04:15 2012
From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 16:04:15 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
In-Reply-To: <14582806-2DBC-4E96-BA20-D85D641F8AD9@gmail.com>
References: <4fbd1bfb.2206650a.4c57.443c@mx.google.com>
	<CAF2O2Cx3N+-XxkO-rKOYn3ExtS_XA1+curNtDpYUmU0ROJOUmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALQ-rrOCzwPP7_uMfG4u6_+3tCKAdp_13YeBo-_r5Ea56MSWZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD995E97-925C-492E-B8D8-35698CA8C39A@gmail.com>
	<18CE3C71-457C-4DD0-B773-AD595417AA4E@gmail.com>
	<14582806-2DBC-4E96-BA20-D85D641F8AD9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <548B2FBD-EC73-4564-911B-DEE5C6CDDF7C@gmail.com>

I'm just the opposite. I love the GPS created by Mike May and Sendero group. I have an iPhone, and am waiting for Sendero to create an application that allows for a fully functioning turn by turn GPS.

This is just my opinion however.
Hope Sent from my iPhone

On May 24, 2012, at 3:23 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:

> I mean that from my experience, I wouldn't go with a Sendero GPS.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On May 24, 2012, at 2:14 PM, Koby <kobycox at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> What do you mean when you say that? 
>> 
>> Koby
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On May 24, 2012, at 2:11 PM, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> The braillenote has a Sendero GPS built in that is complex and inefficient.
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On May 23, 2012, at 9:08 PM, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> All,
>>>> 
>>>> While the Trecker is quite a pricey device, I think it does what it
>>>> does extremely well and if you want a standalone unit, it's the right
>>>> tool for a lot of people. I have to disagree with Sophie about the
>>>> Navigon. I think it's a more effective program in vehicle, as aposed
>>>> to pedestrian, mode. For what it's worth, my primary use for a GPS is
>>>> as an orientation tool; I use it to know where I am if I get
>>>> misguided, I let it announce streets when I'm looking for an
>>>> unfamiliar location, and I occasionally use it for a specific routing
>>>> (though I think guiding myself and using GPS as a tool is still the
>>>> most efficient method).
>>>> 
>>>> Another player may be the Sendero Adventure GPS. It's new to the
>>>> market, the first I've seen about it is in Sendero's May Highlights.
>>>> Because of this, I don't know anything aboutit, but Sendero has a long
>>>> history of producing exceptional interfaces and products for blind
>>>> users and I'd recommend checking it out before you commit.
>>>> 
>>>> Hope these thoughts help.
>>>> 
>>>> tony
>>>> 
>>>> On 5/23/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³ <nimerjaber1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Hello Jordyn,
>>>>> 
>>>>> The Kapten I don't think is being sold anymore and thank God as it was
>>>>> horrid. DO NOT WASTE MONEY ON IT!!
>>>>> The Breeze is outdated, horribly over-priced and under-powered, and
>>>>> lacking in many features but is the only blindness-based GPS that I
>>>>> know of at the moment. If you can get an app on the phone you are
>>>>> using, that would be great. There are various apps on various phones
>>>>> for GPS use that are accessible and that serve different functions.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 5/23/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> The Navigon App for the iPhone works great. The Breeze is ok---I
>>>>>> have some experience with it--but it isn't as high-tech or
>>>>>> precise as the Navigon or other iPhone GPS app.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: NabsLink <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 23 May 2012 09:56:53 -0400
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>> I seem to have lots of questions lately! :) At least it feels
>>>>>> like it.
>>>>>> Anyway, I'm wondering which, if any, GPS solutions you use? I'm
>>>>>> looking
>>>>>> into purchase a Trekker Breeze or Captain GPS.
>>>>>> I'm also not looking for a GPS solution on a notetaker such as a
>>>>>> PAC
>>>>>> Mate or a Braillenote.
>>>>>> What are your  thoughts related to the Trekker Breeze or Captain?
>>>>>> Thanks for your feedback in advance! :)
>>>>>> Jordyn
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Cordially,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Nimer Jaber
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains
>>>>> some information about the email you have just read and all
>>>>> attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and
>>>>> methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>> please click here:
>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
>>>>> you, and have a great day!
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From jordyn2493 at gmail.com  Thu May 24 20:16:50 2012
From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 16:16:50 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
In-Reply-To: <548B2FBD-EC73-4564-911B-DEE5C6CDDF7C@gmail.com>
References: <4fbd1bfb.2206650a.4c57.443c@mx.google.com>
	<CAF2O2Cx3N+-XxkO-rKOYn3ExtS_XA1+curNtDpYUmU0ROJOUmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALQ-rrOCzwPP7_uMfG4u6_+3tCKAdp_13YeBo-_r5Ea56MSWZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD995E97-925C-492E-B8D8-35698CA8C39A@gmail.com>
	<18CE3C71-457C-4DD0-B773-AD595417AA4E@gmail.com>
	<14582806-2DBC-4E96-BA20-D85D641F8AD9@gmail.com>
	<548B2FBD-EC73-4564-911B-DEE5C6CDDF7C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FBE9732.9090808@gmail.com>

I wonder if Sendero is planning on working on this? I think the Trekker 
Breeze is too simplistic and the ones for PAC Mate and Braillenote are 
too expensive, but would love to have a Sendero GPS app for my phone.
I do have an old Trekker PDA. lol
speaking of that, anyone with experience adding POI's from a file to the 
Trekker please email me off list.
Thanks!
Jordyn
On 5/24/2012 4:04 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
> I'm just the opposite. I love the GPS created by Mike May and Sendero group. I have an iPhone, and am waiting for Sendero to create an application that allows for a fully functioning turn by turn GPS.
>
> This is just my opinion however.
> Hope Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 24, 2012, at 3:23 PM, Sophie Trist<sweetpeareader at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> I mean that from my experience, I wouldn't go with a Sendero GPS.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 24, 2012, at 2:14 PM, Koby<kobycox at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> What do you mean when you say that?
>>>
>>> Koby
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On May 24, 2012, at 2:11 PM, Sophie Trist<sweetpeareader at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> The braillenote has a Sendero GPS built in that is complex and inefficient.
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On May 23, 2012, at 9:08 PM, Tony Olivero<anthony at olivero.us>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> All,
>>>>>
>>>>> While the Trecker is quite a pricey device, I think it does what it
>>>>> does extremely well and if you want a standalone unit, it's the right
>>>>> tool for a lot of people. I have to disagree with Sophie about the
>>>>> Navigon. I think it's a more effective program in vehicle, as aposed
>>>>> to pedestrian, mode. For what it's worth, my primary use for a GPS is
>>>>> as an orientation tool; I use it to know where I am if I get
>>>>> misguided, I let it announce streets when I'm looking for an
>>>>> unfamiliar location, and I occasionally use it for a specific routing
>>>>> (though I think guiding myself and using GPS as a tool is still the
>>>>> most efficient method).
>>>>>
>>>>> Another player may be the Sendero Adventure GPS. It's new to the
>>>>> market, the first I've seen about it is in Sendero's May Highlights.
>>>>> Because of this, I don't know anything aboutit, but Sendero has a long
>>>>> history of producing exceptional interfaces and products for blind
>>>>> users and I'd recommend checking it out before you commit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope these thoughts help.
>>>>>
>>>>> tony
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/23/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³<nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Jordyn,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Kapten I don't think is being sold anymore and thank God as it was
>>>>>> horrid. DO NOT WASTE MONEY ON IT!!
>>>>>> The Breeze is outdated, horribly over-priced and under-powered, and
>>>>>> lacking in many features but is the only blindness-based GPS that I
>>>>>> know of at the moment. If you can get an app on the phone you are
>>>>>> using, that would be great. There are various apps on various phones
>>>>>> for GPS use that are accessible and that serve different functions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/23/12, Sophie Trist<sweetpeareader at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>> The Navigon App for the iPhone works great. The Breeze is ok---I
>>>>>>> have some experience with it--but it isn't as high-tech or
>>>>>>> precise as the Navigon or other iPhone GPS app.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: Jordyn Castor<jordyn2493 at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: NabsLink<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 23 May 2012 09:56:53 -0400
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>> I seem to have lots of questions lately! :) At least it feels
>>>>>>> like it.
>>>>>>> Anyway, I'm wondering which, if any, GPS solutions you use? I'm
>>>>>>> looking
>>>>>>> into purchase a Trekker Breeze or Captain GPS.
>>>>>>> I'm also not looking for a GPS solution on a notetaker such as a
>>>>>>> PAC
>>>>>>> Mate or a Braillenote.
>>>>>>> What are your  thoughts related to the Trekker Breeze or Captain?
>>>>>>> Thanks for your feedback in advance! :)
>>>>>>> Jordyn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Cordially,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains
>>>>>> some information about the email you have just read and all
>>>>>> attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and
>>>>>> methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
>>>>>> you, and have a great day!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com



From hope.paulos at gmail.com  Thu May 24 20:23:57 2012
From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 16:23:57 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
In-Reply-To: <4FBE9732.9090808@gmail.com>
References: <4fbd1bfb.2206650a.4c57.443c@mx.google.com>
	<CAF2O2Cx3N+-XxkO-rKOYn3ExtS_XA1+curNtDpYUmU0ROJOUmw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALQ-rrOCzwPP7_uMfG4u6_+3tCKAdp_13YeBo-_r5Ea56MSWZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<FD995E97-925C-492E-B8D8-35698CA8C39A@gmail.com>
	<18CE3C71-457C-4DD0-B773-AD595417AA4E@gmail.com>
	<14582806-2DBC-4E96-BA20-D85D641F8AD9@gmail.com>
	<548B2FBD-EC73-4564-911B-DEE5C6CDDF7C@gmail.com>
	<4FBE9732.9090808@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <024f01cd39eb$273a6a90$75af3fb0$@gmail.com>

Sendero hinted at the creation of an App for the IPhone. I'm not sure about the progress of this app. I've not heard much from them and 'm on the GPS list that they own.
Hth.
Hope

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jordyn Castor
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 4:17 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions

I wonder if Sendero is planning on working on this? I think the Trekker Breeze is too simplistic and the ones for PAC Mate and Braillenote are too expensive, but would love to have a Sendero GPS app for my phone.
I do have an old Trekker PDA. lol
speaking of that, anyone with experience adding POI's from a file to the Trekker please email me off list.
Thanks!
Jordyn
On 5/24/2012 4:04 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
> I'm just the opposite. I love the GPS created by Mike May and Sendero group. I have an iPhone, and am waiting for Sendero to create an application that allows for a fully functioning turn by turn GPS.
>
> This is just my opinion however.
> Hope Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 24, 2012, at 3:23 PM, Sophie Trist<sweetpeareader at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> I mean that from my experience, I wouldn't go with a Sendero GPS.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 24, 2012, at 2:14 PM, Koby<kobycox at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> What do you mean when you say that?
>>>
>>> Koby
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On May 24, 2012, at 2:11 PM, Sophie Trist<sweetpeareader at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> The braillenote has a Sendero GPS built in that is complex and inefficient.
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On May 23, 2012, at 9:08 PM, Tony Olivero<anthony at olivero.us>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> All,
>>>>>
>>>>> While the Trecker is quite a pricey device, I think it does what 
>>>>> it does extremely well and if you want a standalone unit, it's the 
>>>>> right tool for a lot of people. I have to disagree with Sophie 
>>>>> about the Navigon. I think it's a more effective program in 
>>>>> vehicle, as aposed to pedestrian, mode. For what it's worth, my 
>>>>> primary use for a GPS is as an orientation tool; I use it to know 
>>>>> where I am if I get misguided, I let it announce streets when I'm 
>>>>> looking for an unfamiliar location, and I occasionally use it for 
>>>>> a specific routing (though I think guiding myself and using GPS as 
>>>>> a tool is still the most efficient method).
>>>>>
>>>>> Another player may be the Sendero Adventure GPS. It's new to the 
>>>>> market, the first I've seen about it is in Sendero's May Highlights.
>>>>> Because of this, I don't know anything aboutit, but Sendero has a 
>>>>> long history of producing exceptional interfaces and products for 
>>>>> blind users and I'd recommend checking it out before you commit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope these thoughts help.
>>>>>
>>>>> tony
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/23/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³<nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Jordyn,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Kapten I don't think is being sold anymore and thank God as 
>>>>>> it was horrid. DO NOT WASTE MONEY ON IT!!
>>>>>> The Breeze is outdated, horribly over-priced and under-powered, 
>>>>>> and lacking in many features but is the only blindness-based GPS 
>>>>>> that I know of at the moment. If you can get an app on the phone 
>>>>>> you are using, that would be great. There are various apps on 
>>>>>> various phones for GPS use that are accessible and that serve different functions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/23/12, Sophie Trist<sweetpeareader at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>> The Navigon App for the iPhone works great. The Breeze is ok---I 
>>>>>>> have some experience with it--but it isn't as high-tech or 
>>>>>>> precise as the Navigon or other iPhone GPS app.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: Jordyn Castor<jordyn2493 at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: NabsLink<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 23 May 2012 09:56:53 -0400
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>> I seem to have lots of questions lately! :) At least it feels 
>>>>>>> like it.
>>>>>>> Anyway, I'm wondering which, if any, GPS solutions you use? I'm 
>>>>>>> looking into purchase a Trekker Breeze or Captain GPS.
>>>>>>> I'm also not looking for a GPS solution on a notetaker such as a 
>>>>>>> PAC Mate or a Braillenote.
>>>>>>> What are your  thoughts related to the Trekker Breeze or Captain?
>>>>>>> Thanks for your feedback in advance! :) Jordyn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpearead
>>>>>>> e
>>>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account 
>>>>>>> info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%
>>>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Cordially,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it 
>>>>>> contains some information about the email you have just read and 
>>>>>> all attachments contained within as well as some valuable 
>>>>>> resources and methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was 
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended 
>>>>>> recipient, please notify me via reply email and destroy all 
>>>>>> copies of this correspondence. Action taken as a result of this 
>>>>>> email or its contents by anyone other than the intended recipient 
>>>>>> may result in civil or criminal action. I have checked this email 
>>>>>> and all corresponding attachments for security threats. However, 
>>>>>> security of your machine is up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator To get more 
>>>>>> information about a free and accessible operating system, please 
>>>>>> click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows 
>>>>>> XP and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at 
>>>>>> (720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. 
>>>>>> Thank you, and have a great day!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40oli
>>>>>> vero.us
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader
>>>>> %40gmail.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail
>>>> .com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%4
>>> 0gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gma
>> il.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail
> .com


_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com



From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Thu May 24 21:49:14 2012
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:49:14 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats
	ImplementationDate Release
In-Reply-To: <D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com>
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com><3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2><CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <90325FE5209B4557AD954254B7FB83F9@HUMBERTOAVILA>

Here is the article, if this didn't come through. It was copied and pasted
from an original post that Mr. Andrews also posted to the Blind Talk list:


>[]
>
>Press Release
>May 2012
>
>For Immediate Release
>CONTACT: Frances Mary D'Andrea, Chair
>Braille Authority of North America
>Phone: 412-521-5797
>Email: <mailto:literacy2 at mindspring.com>literacy2 at mindspring.com
>
>
>Implementation Date Set for 2011 Braille Formats
>
>
>
>On April 24, BANA released the new Braille Formats: Principles of 
>Print-to-Braille Transcription, 2011. This completely revised 
>publication is available in three accessible electronic versions: 
>enhanced PDF, BRF, and online HTML. These are available at 
><http://www.brailleauthority.org/>www.brailleauthority.org and are 
>offered without charge. Print and braille versions will be available 
>for purchase from the American Printing House for the Blind later this
year.
>
>This is an extensive revision of the previous formats publication. 
>Appendix A of the new publication provides a quick reference of 
>changes and additions.
>
>The official implementation date for use of Braille Formats 2011 is 
>January 1, 2013. The principles set forth in the Braille Formats 
>2011 supersede all previous formats documents, including the rules 
>and appendices regarding formatting given in English Braille 
>American Edition (EBAE).
>
>BANA wishes to thank the tireless members of the Braille Formats 
>Technical Committee and their Chair Lynnette Taylor for their decade 
>of work and commitment that made this publication possible.
>
>
>Direct link to this press release on the BANA website: 
><http://www.brailleauthority.org/pressreleases/pr-may2012.html>http://www.b
railleauthority.org/pressreleases/pr-may2012.html
>
>
>
>For additional resource information, visit 
><http://www.brailleauthority.org/>www.brailleauthority.org
>
>
>
>The mission and purpose of the Braille Authority of North America 
>are to assure literacy for tactile readers through the 
>standardization of braille and/or tactile graphics. BANA promotes 
>and facilitates the use, teaching, and production of braille. It 
>publishes rules, interprets, and renders opinions pertaining to 
>braille in all existing codes. It deals with codes now in existence 
>or to be developed in the future, in collaboration with other 
>countries using English braille. In exercising its function and 
>authority, BANA considers the effects of its decisions on other 
>existing braille codes and formats; the ease of production by 
>various methods; and acceptability to readers. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Sophie Trist
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:04 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats
ImplementationDate Release

I don't see why BANA feels it must change the perfectly good Nemeth code
that millions of blind users already know. There's nothing wrong with
Nemeth.Sent from my iPhone

On May 24, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
wrote:

> I think the formats that wil be emplemented, will also be the changes
> to the Nemeth Braille code, for math, that I've been fighting against.
> Blessings, Joshua
> 
> On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello,
>> The article didn't come through.
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David Andrews
>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation
Date
>> Release
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmai
l.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.p
ccua.edu
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.c
om

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g
mail.com



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Thu May 24 21:50:23 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 17:50:23 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOtq2Ok6BFEfpnvn2cc5vagFbgSvsoJev3kcm7eJbeWhNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>	<CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com>	<00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com>	<002401cd3945$b0a0b060$11e21120$@gmail.com>	<087088E8-0FF9-4740-BB27-114600AB85D9@gmail.com>	<CAO83KOts8TsQJLcxuYef7dspuaX9m+uTXyobbjtcB1gwW1+5zA@mail.gmail.com>	<4C2E3A74-34FA-45C0-951B-11D632A63DBF@mac.com>	<CAO83KOu80-7pQYaOQtOZtgK1nh3HsBFE3b6fkypugLQ2WM9RHA@mail.gmail.com>	<534904DC-9589-477A-A1B0-A8F27A3BDB1E@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOtq2Ok6BFEfpnvn2cc5vagFbgSvsoJev3kcm7eJbeWhNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <009101cd39f7$3cf5cee0$b6e16ca0$@gmail.com>

Josh,

To clarify, the BrailleNote Apex does in fact have a carrying case that
comes with the unit.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 3:44 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators

There are tons of compartments, that snap, and unsnap.
We don't need all of that.
Also, the BN doesn't have a carrying case.
You have to purchase one.
The Pac Mate has one that comes with it, and you don't have to pay for the
case!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/24/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> What unnecessary compartments?
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 24, 2012, at 2:33 PM, Joshua Lester 
> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Humanware could lose the unnecessary compartments, on the Braillenote.
>> John's right, that the Orion is better.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/24/12, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
>>> Do you want to start our old argument again Josh? Lol. Personally, I 
>>> don't think notetaker calculators are as good as dedicated ones like 
>>> the Orion.
>>> THe Orion has more functionality than both notetakers put together.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>>
>>
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om



From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Thu May 24 21:57:09 2012
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 14:57:09 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
In-Reply-To: <4FBE9732.9090808@gmail.com>
References: <4fbd1bfb.2206650a.4c57.443c@mx.google.com><CAF2O2Cx3N+-XxkO-rKOYn3ExtS_XA1+curNtDpYUmU0ROJOUmw@mail.gmail.com><CALQ-rrOCzwPP7_uMfG4u6_+3tCKAdp_13YeBo-_r5Ea56MSWZw@mail.gmail.com><FD995E97-925C-492E-B8D8-35698CA8C39A@gmail.com><18CE3C71-457C-4DD0-B773-AD595417AA4E@gmail.com><14582806-2DBC-4E96-BA20-D85D641F8AD9@gmail.com><548B2FBD-EC73-4564-911B-DEE5C6CDDF7C@gmail.com>
	<4FBE9732.9090808@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2D17D1E5686640B78FA1FFBFEBC8C789@HUMBERTOAVILA>

Hello, I would like a trecker breeze. "pardon my spelling on this product) I
heard some great things from it. In fact I just want a GPS system that can
allow me to go anywhere and find streets and get location information by
myself. Does the Trecker Breeze allow me to do this and even set addresses
for routes? How much does that thing cost? 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jordyn Castor
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 1:17 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions

I wonder if Sendero is planning on working on this? I think the Trekker 
Breeze is too simplistic and the ones for PAC Mate and Braillenote are 
too expensive, but would love to have a Sendero GPS app for my phone.
I do have an old Trekker PDA. lol
speaking of that, anyone with experience adding POI's from a file to the 
Trekker please email me off list.
Thanks!
Jordyn
On 5/24/2012 4:04 PM, Hope Paulos wrote:
> I'm just the opposite. I love the GPS created by Mike May and Sendero
group. I have an iPhone, and am waiting for Sendero to create an application
that allows for a fully functioning turn by turn GPS.
>
> This is just my opinion however.
> Hope Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 24, 2012, at 3:23 PM, Sophie Trist<sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>> I mean that from my experience, I wouldn't go with a Sendero GPS.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 24, 2012, at 2:14 PM, Koby<kobycox at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> What do you mean when you say that?
>>>
>>> Koby
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On May 24, 2012, at 2:11 PM, Sophie Trist<sweetpeareader at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>
>>>> The braillenote has a Sendero GPS built in that is complex and
inefficient.
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On May 23, 2012, at 9:08 PM, Tony Olivero<anthony at olivero.us>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> All,
>>>>>
>>>>> While the Trecker is quite a pricey device, I think it does what it
>>>>> does extremely well and if you want a standalone unit, it's the right
>>>>> tool for a lot of people. I have to disagree with Sophie about the
>>>>> Navigon. I think it's a more effective program in vehicle, as aposed
>>>>> to pedestrian, mode. For what it's worth, my primary use for a GPS is
>>>>> as an orientation tool; I use it to know where I am if I get
>>>>> misguided, I let it announce streets when I'm looking for an
>>>>> unfamiliar location, and I occasionally use it for a specific routing
>>>>> (though I think guiding myself and using GPS as a tool is still the
>>>>> most efficient method).
>>>>>
>>>>> Another player may be the Sendero Adventure GPS. It's new to the
>>>>> market, the first I've seen about it is in Sendero's May Highlights.
>>>>> Because of this, I don't know anything aboutit, but Sendero has a long
>>>>> history of producing exceptional interfaces and products for blind
>>>>> users and I'd recommend checking it out before you commit.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope these thoughts help.
>>>>>
>>>>> tony
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/23/12, Nimer M. Jaber, IC³<nimerjaber1 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>> Hello Jordyn,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Kapten I don't think is being sold anymore and thank God as it
was
>>>>>> horrid. DO NOT WASTE MONEY ON IT!!
>>>>>> The Breeze is outdated, horribly over-priced and under-powered, and
>>>>>> lacking in many features but is the only blindness-based GPS that I
>>>>>> know of at the moment. If you can get an app on the phone you are
>>>>>> using, that would be great. There are various apps on various phones
>>>>>> for GPS use that are accessible and that serve different functions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/23/12, Sophie Trist<sweetpeareader at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>> The Navigon App for the iPhone works great. The Breeze is ok---I
>>>>>>> have some experience with it--but it isn't as high-tech or
>>>>>>> precise as the Navigon or other iPhone GPS app.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: Jordyn Castor<jordyn2493 at gmail.com
>>>>>>> To: NabsLink<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 23 May 2012 09:56:53 -0400
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey all,
>>>>>>> I seem to have lots of questions lately! :) At least it feels
>>>>>>> like it.
>>>>>>> Anyway, I'm wondering which, if any, GPS solutions you use? I'm
>>>>>>> looking
>>>>>>> into purchase a Trekker Breeze or Captain GPS.
>>>>>>> I'm also not looking for a GPS solution on a notetaker such as a
>>>>>>> PAC
>>>>>>> Mate or a Braillenote.
>>>>>>> What are your  thoughts related to the Trekker Breeze or Captain?
>>>>>>> Thanks for your feedback in advance! :)
>>>>>>> Jordyn
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareade
>>>>>>> r%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nimerjaber1%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Cordially,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nimer Jaber
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Please take the time to read this signature completely as it contains
>>>>>> some information about the email you have just read and all
>>>>>> attachments contained within as well as some valuable resources and
>>>>>> methods for contacting me if you have any questions or wish to talk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>>>>>> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>>>>>> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>>>>>> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
contents
>>>>>> by anyone other than the intended recipient may result in civil or
>>>>>> criminal action. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>>>>>> attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine
is
>>>>>> up to you. Thanks.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Registered Linux User 529141.
>>>>>> http://counter.li.org/
>>>>>> Vinux testing and documentation coordinator
>>>>>> To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
>>>>>> please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.vinuxproject.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To find out about a free and versatile screen reader for windows XP
>>>>>> and above, please click here:
>>>>>> http://www.nvda-project.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Check out my blog related to technology by clicking here:
>>>>>> http://nimertech.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
(720)
>>>>>> (251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
>>>>>> you, and have a great day!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.c
om
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kobycox%40gmail.com
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.c
om
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>>
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> _______________________________________________
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Thu May 24 22:18:42 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 17:18:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <009101cd39f7$3cf5cee0$b6e16ca0$@gmail.com>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com>
	<00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com>
	<002401cd3945$b0a0b060$11e21120$@gmail.com>
	<087088E8-0FF9-4740-BB27-114600AB85D9@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOts8TsQJLcxuYef7dspuaX9m+uTXyobbjtcB1gwW1+5zA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C2E3A74-34FA-45C0-951B-11D632A63DBF@mac.com>
	<CAO83KOu80-7pQYaOQtOZtgK1nh3HsBFE3b6fkypugLQ2WM9RHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<534904DC-9589-477A-A1B0-A8F27A3BDB1E@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOtq2Ok6BFEfpnvn2cc5vagFbgSvsoJev3kcm7eJbeWhNQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<009101cd39f7$3cf5cee0$b6e16ca0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOv8z+ZOxkUE2gRbakVaLsd990KK+NtSZp-6TtG1A1fOpA@mail.gmail.com>

It's about time, that Humanware started including those!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/24/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Josh,
>
> To clarify, the BrailleNote Apex does in fact have a carrying case that
> comes with the unit.
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Joshua Lester
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 3:44 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
>
> There are tons of compartments, that snap, and unsnap.
> We don't need all of that.
> Also, the BN doesn't have a carrying case.
> You have to purchase one.
> The Pac Mate has one that comes with it, and you don't have to pay for the
> case!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/24/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> What unnecessary compartments?
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 24, 2012, at 2:33 PM, Joshua Lester
>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Humanware could lose the unnecessary compartments, on the Braillenote.
>>> John's right, that the Orion is better.
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 5/24/12, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
>>>> Do you want to start our old argument again Josh? Lol. Personally, I
>>>> don't think notetaker calculators are as good as dedicated ones like
>>>> the Orion.
>>>> THe Orion has more functionality than both notetakers put together.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st
>>>> udents.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40
>>> gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
>> ents.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From lizmohnke at hotmail.com  Thu May 24 22:29:48 2012
From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 18:29:48 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOv8z+ZOxkUE2gRbakVaLsd990KK+NtSZp-6TtG1A1fOpA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com><CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com><00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com><002401cd3945$b0a0b060$11e21120$@gmail.com><087088E8-0FF9-4740-BB27-114600AB85D9@gmail.com><CAO83KOts8TsQJLcxuYef7dspuaX9m+uTXyobbjtcB1gwW1+5zA@mail.gmail.com><4C2E3A74-34FA-45C0-951B-11D632A63DBF@mac.com><CAO83KOu80-7pQYaOQtOZtgK1nh3HsBFE3b6fkypugLQ2WM9RHA@mail.gmail.com><534904DC-9589-477A-A1B0-A8F27A3BDB1E@gmail.com><CAO83KOtq2Ok6BFEfpnvn2cc5vagFbgSvsoJev3kcm7eJbeWhNQ@mail.gmail.com><009101cd39f7$3cf5cee0$b6e16ca0$@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOv8z+ZOxkUE2gRbakVaLsd990KK+NtSZp-6TtG1A1fOpA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL118-DS269CFE59FDEA0B9C589A3BA000@phx.gbl>

Joshua,

I am not sure where you are getting your information from, but I believe the 
Braille note products have included a carrying case for quite some time now. 
It is perfectly fine that you do not like their products, but what does not 
work for you may work for others.

Elizabeth

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:18 PM
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators

> It's about time, that Humanware started including those!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/24/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Josh,
>>
>> To clarify, the BrailleNote Apex does in fact have a carrying case that
>> comes with the unit.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 3:44 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
>>
>> There are tons of compartments, that snap, and unsnap.
>> We don't need all of that.
>> Also, the BN doesn't have a carrying case.
>> You have to purchase one.
>> The Pac Mate has one that comes with it, and you don't have to pay for 
>> the
>> case!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/24/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> What unnecessary compartments?
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On May 24, 2012, at 2:33 PM, Joshua Lester
>>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Humanware could lose the unnecessary compartments, on the Braillenote.
>>>> John's right, that the Orion is better.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 5/24/12, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>> Do you want to start our old argument again Josh? Lol. Personally, I
>>>>> don't think notetaker calculators are as good as dedicated ones like
>>>>> the Orion.
>>>>> THe Orion has more functionality than both notetakers put together.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st
>>>>> udents.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40
>>>> gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
>>> ents.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
> 


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Thu May 24 22:49:42 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 17:49:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <COL118-DS269CFE59FDEA0B9C589A3BA000@phx.gbl>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com>
	<00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com>
	<002401cd3945$b0a0b060$11e21120$@gmail.com>
	<087088E8-0FF9-4740-BB27-114600AB85D9@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOts8TsQJLcxuYef7dspuaX9m+uTXyobbjtcB1gwW1+5zA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C2E3A74-34FA-45C0-951B-11D632A63DBF@mac.com>
	<CAO83KOu80-7pQYaOQtOZtgK1nh3HsBFE3b6fkypugLQ2WM9RHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<534904DC-9589-477A-A1B0-A8F27A3BDB1E@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOtq2Ok6BFEfpnvn2cc5vagFbgSvsoJev3kcm7eJbeWhNQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<009101cd39f7$3cf5cee0$b6e16ca0$@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOv8z+ZOxkUE2gRbakVaLsd990KK+NtSZp-6TtG1A1fOpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL118-DS269CFE59FDEA0B9C589A3BA000@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtTi7tAcJ49+S9-ms2szaQN18QtLcjNPX6wr-9=J+xu=Q@mail.gmail.com>

The ones I looked at, from 2 years ago, did not.
I'm glad they now have carrying cases.
BTW, I hope to look at the Apex, at this year's convention!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/24/12, Elizabeth <lizmohnke at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Joshua,
>
> I am not sure where you are getting your information from, but I believe the
>
> Braille note products have included a carrying case for quite some time now.
>
> It is perfectly fine that you do not like their products, but what does not
>
> work for you may work for others.
>
> Elizabeth
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:18 PM
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
>
>> It's about time, that Humanware started including those!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/24/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Josh,
>>>
>>> To clarify, the BrailleNote Apex does in fact have a carrying case that
>>> comes with the unit.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Joshua Lester
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 3:44 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
>>>
>>> There are tons of compartments, that snap, and unsnap.
>>> We don't need all of that.
>>> Also, the BN doesn't have a carrying case.
>>> You have to purchase one.
>>> The Pac Mate has one that comes with it, and you don't have to pay for
>>> the
>>> case!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 5/24/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> What unnecessary compartments?
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On May 24, 2012, at 2:33 PM, Joshua Lester
>>>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Humanware could lose the unnecessary compartments, on the Braillenote.
>>>>> John's right, that the Orion is better.
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/24/12, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Do you want to start our old argument again Josh? Lol. Personally, I
>>>>>> don't think notetaker calculators are as good as dedicated ones like
>>>>>> the Orion.
>>>>>> THe Orion has more functionality than both notetakers put together.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st
>>>>>> udents.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40
>>>>> gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
>>>> ents.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>>> om
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From freethaught at gmail.com  Fri May 25 00:39:12 2012
From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio Guimaraes)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 20:39:12 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation
 Date Release
In-Reply-To: <D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com>
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>	<3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>	<CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FBED4B0.9080203@gmail.com>

There has been, and will continue to be a lot to say on this issue.

Dr. Nemeth has been revising the 1973 code in to what is termed the 
Nemeth Uniform Braille System. I am willing to bet most on this list 
have heard little about Nemeth Uniform Braille System, NUBS, let alone 
seen it on the page.

I've written an article to be published in the Monitor this June about 
this subject, and I encourage people to become familiar with this issue.

I am in support of, and an advocate for NUBS for the many reasons math 
and science students would like Nemeth's work to continue making their 
studies a viable option.

Antonio

On 5/24/2012 3:03 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
> I don't see why BANA feels it must change the perfectly good Nemeth code that millions of blind users already know. There's nothing wrong with Nemeth.Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 24, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Joshua Lester<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>  wrote:
>
>    
>> I think the formats that wil be emplemented, will also be the changes
>> to the Nemeth Braille code, for math, that I've been fighting against.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>      
>>> Hello,
>>> The article didn't come through.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: David Andrews
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
>>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation Date
>>> Release
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>>        
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>>      
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com
>    


From freethaught at gmail.com  Fri May 25 00:42:24 2012
From: freethaught at gmail.com (Antonio Guimaraes)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 20:42:24 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation
 Date Release
In-Reply-To: <D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com>
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>	<3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>	<CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FBED570.1010508@gmail.com>

Sophie,

I doubt millions of users know and use Nemeth. The Nemeth system is used 
primarily in the United States, and I don't know that there are this 
many braille readers around.

Antonio


On 5/24/2012 3:03 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
> I don't see why BANA feels it must change the perfectly good Nemeth code that millions of blind users already know. There's nothing wrong with Nemeth.Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 24, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Joshua Lester<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>  wrote:
>
>    
>> I think the formats that wil be emplemented, will also be the changes
>> to the Nemeth Braille code, for math, that I've been fighting against.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>      
>>> Hello,
>>> The article didn't come through.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: David Andrews
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
>>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation Date
>>> Release
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>>        
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>>      
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com
>    


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri May 25 01:03:27 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 21:03:27 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <COL118-DS269CFE59FDEA0B9C589A3BA000@phx.gbl>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com><CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com><00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com><002401cd3945$b0a0b060$11e21120$@gmail.com><087088E8-0FF9-4740-BB27-114600AB85D9@gmail.com><CAO83KOts8TsQJLcxuYef7dspuaX9m+uTXyobbjtcB1gwW1+5zA@mail.gmail.com><4C2E3A74-34FA-45C0-951B-11D632A63DBF@mac.com><CAO83KOu80-7pQYaOQtOZtgK1nh3HsBFE3b6fkypugLQ2WM9RHA@mail.gmail.com><534904DC-9589-477A-A1B0-A8F27A3BDB1E@gmail.com><CAO83KOtq2Ok6BFEfpnvn2cc5vagFbgSvsoJev3kcm7eJbeWhNQ@mail.gmail.com><009101cd39f7$3cf5cee0$b6e16ca0$@gmail.com><CAO83KOv8z+ZOxkUE2gRbakVaLsd990KK+NtSZp-6TtG1A1fOpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL118-DS269CFE59FDEA0B9C589A3BA000@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <C33401297F9E4F899AD75B6857713E4F@OwnerPC>

Elizabeth,
Right, I had an older braille note, the one before the m power and now I 
have an m power; wish I had the apex, but that is expensive to upgrade.
My Braille note did include a carrying case. And btw, it also had a 
scientific calculator built in to it.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Elizabeth
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:29 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators

Joshua,

I am not sure where you are getting your information from, but I believe the
Braille note products have included a carrying case for quite some time now.
It is perfectly fine that you do not like their products, but what does not
work for you may work for others.

Elizabeth

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:18 PM
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators

> It's about time, that Humanware started including those!
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/24/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Josh,
>>
>> To clarify, the BrailleNote Apex does in fact have a carrying case that
>> comes with the unit.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 3:44 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
>>
>> There are tons of compartments, that snap, and unsnap.
>> We don't need all of that.
>> Also, the BN doesn't have a carrying case.
>> You have to purchase one.
>> The Pac Mate has one that comes with it, and you don't have to pay for 
>> the
>> case!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/24/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> What unnecessary compartments?
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On May 24, 2012, at 2:33 PM, Joshua Lester
>>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Humanware could lose the unnecessary compartments, on the Braillenote.
>>>> John's right, that the Orion is better.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 5/24/12, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>> Do you want to start our old argument again Josh? Lol. Personally, I
>>>>> don't think notetaker calculators are as good as dedicated ones like
>>>>> the Orion.
>>>>> THe Orion has more functionality than both notetakers put together.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>> for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st
>>>>> udents.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40
>>>> gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
>>> ents.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Fri May 25 02:41:12 2012
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 19:41:12 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation
	Date Release
In-Reply-To: <4FBED570.1010508@gmail.com>
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>	<3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>	<CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com><D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com>
	<4FBED570.1010508@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A079F296EF224540B0A924CEF7D5A617@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
Nemeth seemed OK to me when I learned it, although there seemed to be quite 
a few signs that were a little un necessary. But I haven't touched Nemith in 
over 3 years, so my memory is probably faulty.
I just hope that things become more compact and less cumbersome to learn. 
It's my experience that life is better for everyone when language is logical 
and not full of signs that take lots of education to understand. (Like 
English!) Who wants to keep spelling knife with a k. Who wants to keep 
putting Ee at the end of all their words? Why not be like the Italians and 
spell neutrino just like it sounds?
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Antonio Guimaraes
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:42 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation 
Date Release

Sophie,

I doubt millions of users know and use Nemeth. The Nemeth system is used
primarily in the United States, and I don't know that there are this
many braille readers around.

Antonio


On 5/24/2012 3:03 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
> I don't see why BANA feels it must change the perfectly good Nemeth code 
> that millions of blind users already know. There's nothing wrong with 
> Nemeth.Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 24, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Joshua Lester<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> 
> wrote:
>
>
>> I think the formats that wil be emplemented, will also be the changes
>> to the Nemeth Braille code, for math, that I've been fighting against.
>> Blessings, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> The article didn't come through.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: David Andrews
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
>>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation 
>>> Date
>>> Release
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Fri May 25 03:00:25 2012
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 20:00:25 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOvvSvHeMHij+U7P1aY2C50mZwLhZwoxE3OGPXdvtO5Dow@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD55B@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com><2CF49A7194154D06857537A1F9F11925@BrandonsLaptop2><4B8EA3D0-17EF-45E4-9644-E5E2F41AA264@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOvvSvHeMHij+U7P1aY2C50mZwLhZwoxE3OGPXdvtO5Dow@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E18A385F5BE1432AA96E56F5F84560C7@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
I may, even though I'm going to be a new transfer student. BTW what do you 
mean by "courtesy rules?"
I could also push the high demand there is for TVIs.

BTW, I just wanted to share something, while we are on the subject of STEM 
and technology, here's an amazing website for someone who wants to learn 
programming, but can't understand all the jargon used by the websites and 
textbooks.
http://www.qwitter-client.net/lpthw/index.html
Python can be used in creating PDAs, see the Braille + from APH and Level 
star, games in cluding Muds and text games as well as serving as an 
introduction to the heavier languages like Java and C++.
Just use Notepad for your text editor and join the program-l list if you 
have any questions!

Sorry, just had to push something for those of you who haven't decided on a 
major or hobby yet!
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:38 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

Brandon:
Ask your college, to allow you to do, what I'm doing, this October,
(Lord willing.)
Since October is Meet the Blind Month, I'm going to do a seminar on
blindness related stuff, at my college, showing what I do, and how I
do things.
I'd even show them the courtesy rules, that are mentioned.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/24/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> If more colleges had TVI programs available, we could get more good TVIs
> that we need.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 23, 2012, at 3:53 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
> <brandonboy13 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> True, the sighted people in engineering often want to develop things for
>> blind people to use, but very few of them know blind people to ask, or
>> know of any professionals on blind people that could answer their
>> questions. I think the root of the problem is that there aren’t enough of
>> us to go around and the professionals or people informed about blindness
>> are even more rare than we are.
>> I have often brought up to my college that they should start a TVI 
>> program
>> and they kind of chuckle and ask me where I'll find the teachers... But
>> there are so many students who are going in to special Ed that have heard
>> of being a teacher of the blind, but they know nothing about it. There is
>> one or two places in the special Ed program that talk about blindness
>> related subjects in passing, but that is often very small and obscure.
>> I wonder if there could be a project/class system  or something that 
>> could
>> be developed that a blind student could take to their college that 
>> teaches
>> people a little about what it's like working with blind people. That way
>> colleges may start taking notice of this important field and make it a
>> part of the class catalogue. The information just needs to get out there
>> to the public.
>> The best way for myths about blindness to be dispelled is for a TV show
>> with a blind person as the lead, acting as a blind person, to go on the
>> air. But idk of very many directors who would be able to find someone who
>> could write a good pilot script or direct the movie to show a blind 
>> person
>> as they really are.
>> Blindness is like Opera, people truly just don't know about it! (Les Miz
>> and Phantom are NOT OPERA and Dare devil and all those other blind movie
>> characters aren’t blind!
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message----- From: Justin Salisbury
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:41 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
>>
>> I think some of you are focusing on the technology and its possible uses.
>> What made me want to post this article were the philosophies on blindness
>> expressed in the article and news story.
>>
>> In no connection to the previous discussion of cancer on this thread, I
>> feel like the researchers think their discovery is analogous to finding a
>> cure for cancer when they come up with this technology.  They appear to 
>> me
>> to be trying to tackle tasks that any graduate of an NFB training center
>> can already handle.  If I don't know what is on the counter in front of
>> me, I reach out and touch it.  Let them research whatever they want to
>> research, but I think these people are marked by a profound
>> misunderstanding of blindness.
>>
>> I don't try to fix the fact that I'm blind (as if it's something wrong
>> with me); I try to fix the misunderstandings about blindness.
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> Justin M. Salisbury
>> Class of 2012
>> B.A. in Mathematics
>> East Carolina University
>> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>>
>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
>> change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever 
>> .”    —MARGARET
>> MEAD
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonboy13%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>

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From chelseap08 at gmail.com  Fri May 25 03:04:24 2012
From: chelseap08 at gmail.com (Chelsea Page)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 22:04:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <C33401297F9E4F899AD75B6857713E4F@OwnerPC>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com>
	<00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com>
	<002401cd3945$b0a0b060$11e21120$@gmail.com>
	<087088E8-0FF9-4740-BB27-114600AB85D9@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOts8TsQJLcxuYef7dspuaX9m+uTXyobbjtcB1gwW1+5zA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C2E3A74-34FA-45C0-951B-11D632A63DBF@mac.com>
	<CAO83KOu80-7pQYaOQtOZtgK1nh3HsBFE3b6fkypugLQ2WM9RHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<534904DC-9589-477A-A1B0-A8F27A3BDB1E@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOtq2Ok6BFEfpnvn2cc5vagFbgSvsoJev3kcm7eJbeWhNQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<009101cd39f7$3cf5cee0$b6e16ca0$@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOv8z+ZOxkUE2gRbakVaLsd990KK+NtSZp-6TtG1A1fOpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL118-DS269CFE59FDEA0B9C589A3BA000@phx.gbl>
	<C33401297F9E4F899AD75B6857713E4F@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <67E36278-ED7D-4FC6-A4EF-180C7B742B21@gmail.com>

I use and love my Pac Mate! But that is just my preference

Sent from my iPhone

On May 24, 2012, at 8:03 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Elizabeth,
> Right, I had an older braille note, the one before the m power and now I have an m power; wish I had the apex, but that is expensive to upgrade.
> My Braille note did include a carrying case. And btw, it also had a scientific calculator built in to it.
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:29 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
> 
> Joshua,
> 
> I am not sure where you are getting your information from, but I believe the
> Braille note products have included a carrying case for quite some time now.
> It is perfectly fine that you do not like their products, but what does not
> work for you may work for others.
> 
> Elizabeth
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:18 PM
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
> 
>> It's about time, that Humanware started including those!
>> Blessings, Joshua
>> 
>> On 5/24/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Josh,
>>> 
>>> To clarify, the BrailleNote Apex does in fact have a carrying case that
>>> comes with the unit.
>>> 
>>> Chris
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Joshua Lester
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 3:44 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
>>> 
>>> There are tons of compartments, that snap, and unsnap.
>>> We don't need all of that.
>>> Also, the BN doesn't have a carrying case.
>>> You have to purchase one.
>>> The Pac Mate has one that comes with it, and you don't have to pay for the
>>> case!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>> 
>>> On 5/24/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> What unnecessary compartments?
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>> On May 24, 2012, at 2:33 PM, Joshua Lester
>>>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Humanware could lose the unnecessary compartments, on the Braillenote.
>>>>> John's right, that the Orion is better.
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 5/24/12, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Do you want to start our old argument again Josh? Lol. Personally, I
>>>>>> don't think notetaker calculators are as good as dedicated ones like
>>>>>> the Orion.
>>>>>> THe Orion has more functionality than both notetakers put together.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st
>>>>>> udents.pccua.edu
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40
>>>>> gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
>>>> ents.pccua.edu
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>>> om
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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> 
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri May 25 03:36:33 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 21:36:33 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <E18A385F5BE1432AA96E56F5F84560C7@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD55B@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
	<2CF49A7194154D06857537A1F9F11925@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<4B8EA3D0-17EF-45E4-9644-E5E2F41AA264@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOvvSvHeMHij+U7P1aY2C50mZwLhZwoxE3OGPXdvtO5Dow@mail.gmail.com>
	<E18A385F5BE1432AA96E56F5F84560C7@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJB90rr+LFrh7uqjFNE0qFDO0+fyYmGmZyyNmonN_rduWg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
Students training to be regular ed teachers (i.e. elementary ed
majors) usually have to take a class called Introduction to Special
Education. When I was at ASU I happened to run into the Intro to
Special Ed instructor on the street and he invited me to come talk to
his class, so I did it for three or four semesters. It's a great way
to educate future teachers--not only special ed teachers but also the
teachers who might get one blind child every few years in their
mainstream class. During my last semester at ASU a friend of mine was
taking Intro to Special Ed and she invited me to come talk to her
class. Afterward she was telling me that they had just finished the
"blindness/visual impairment" chapter in their textbook and that it
was really boring and depressing. I think it can be really valuable
for us to talk to these classes and show them that blindness can be
much more "normal" than the way it is portrayed in the textbooks.
If you are a current student, you could search your school's course
catalog for a special ed course being offered and then email the
instructor and offer to give a presentation.
Some folks have compiled "courtesy rules" or suggestions of ways to
interact or not interact with blind people. While these rules can be
helpful, I don't like giving people the impression that they need to
worry about acting a certain way with me. When I present I usually
tell people that they should just keep two things in mind when with a
blind person: (1) treat them like you would anybody else, and (2) if
you aren't sure how to help someone or whether they need help, then
just ask them and respect their preference. This should be simple
enough.
It's good to talk about how we do things like reading Braille and
getting around with a cane, but I also tried to emphasize the typical
college things I did (I recall one student asking me what my favorite
alcoholic drink was!) With education students, I also emphasized the
importance of teaching blindness skills early and holding blind
students to high expectations.
Best,
Arielle

On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> I may, even though I'm going to be a new transfer student. BTW what do you
> mean by "courtesy rules?"
> I could also push the high demand there is for TVIs.
>
> BTW, I just wanted to share something, while we are on the subject of STEM
> and technology, here's an amazing website for someone who wants to learn
> programming, but can't understand all the jargon used by the websites and
> textbooks.
> http://www.qwitter-client.net/lpthw/index.html
> Python can be used in creating PDAs, see the Braille + from APH and Level
> star, games in cluding Muds and text games as well as serving as an
> introduction to the heavier languages like Java and C++.
> Just use Notepad for your text editor and join the program-l list if you
> have any questions!
>
> Sorry, just had to push something for those of you who haven't decided on a
>
> major or hobby yet!
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:38 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
>
> Brandon:
> Ask your college, to allow you to do, what I'm doing, this October,
> (Lord willing.)
> Since October is Meet the Blind Month, I'm going to do a seminar on
> blindness related stuff, at my college, showing what I do, and how I
> do things.
> I'd even show them the courtesy rules, that are mentioned.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/24/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> If more colleges had TVI programs available, we could get more good TVIs
>> that we need.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 23, 2012, at 3:53 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
>> <brandonboy13 at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> True, the sighted people in engineering often want to develop things for
>>> blind people to use, but very few of them know blind people to ask, or
>>> know of any professionals on blind people that could answer their
>>> questions. I think the root of the problem is that there aren’t enough
>>> of
>>> us to go around and the professionals or people informed about blindness
>>> are even more rare than we are.
>>> I have often brought up to my college that they should start a TVI
>>> program
>>> and they kind of chuckle and ask me where I'll find the teachers... But
>>> there are so many students who are going in to special Ed that have
>>> heard
>>> of being a teacher of the blind, but they know nothing about it. There
>>> is
>>> one or two places in the special Ed program that talk about blindness
>>> related subjects in passing, but that is often very small and obscure.
>>> I wonder if there could be a project/class system  or something that
>>> could
>>> be developed that a blind student could take to their college that
>>> teaches
>>> people a little about what it's like working with blind people. That way
>>> colleges may start taking notice of this important field and make it a
>>> part of the class catalogue. The information just needs to get out there
>>> to the public.
>>> The best way for myths about blindness to be dispelled is for a TV show
>>> with a blind person as the lead, acting as a blind person, to go on the
>>> air. But idk of very many directors who would be able to find someone
>>> who
>>> could write a good pilot script or direct the movie to show a blind
>>> person
>>> as they really are.
>>> Blindness is like Opera, people truly just don't know about it! (Les Miz
>>> and Phantom are NOT OPERA and Dare devil and all those other blind movie
>>> characters aren’t blind!
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Justin Salisbury
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:41 PM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
>>>
>>> I think some of you are focusing on the technology and its possible
>>> uses.
>>> What made me want to post this article were the philosophies on
>>> blindness
>>> expressed in the article and news story.
>>>
>>> In no connection to the previous discussion of cancer on this thread, I
>>> feel like the researchers think their discovery is analogous to finding
>>> a
>>> cure for cancer when they come up with this technology.  They appear to
>>> me
>>> to be trying to tackle tasks that any graduate of an NFB training center
>>> can already handle.  If I don't know what is on the counter in front of
>>> me, I reach out and touch it.  Let them research whatever they want to
>>> research, but I think these people are marked by a profound
>>> misunderstanding of blindness.
>>>
>>> I don't try to fix the fact that I'm blind (as if it's something wrong
>>> with me); I try to fix the misunderstandings about blindness.
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>> Justin M. Salisbury
>>> Class of 2012
>>> B.A. in Mathematics
>>> East Carolina University
>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>>>
>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
>>> change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever
>>> .”    —MARGARET
>>> MEAD
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonboy13%40comcast.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>


From wujing19861209 at hotmail.com  Fri May 25 03:47:26 2012
From: wujing19861209 at hotmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Jing_Crystal_Wu_=E5=90=B4=E6=99=B6?=)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 11:47:26 +0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD55B@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com><2CF49A7194154D06857537A1F9F11925@BrandonsLaptop2><4B8EA3D0-17EF-45E4-9644-E5E2F41AA264@gmail.com><CAO83KOvvSvHeMHij+U7P1aY2C50mZwLhZwoxE3OGPXdvtO5Dow@mail.gmail.com>
	<E18A385F5BE1432AA96E56F5F84560C7@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP11511CBDB53744A960B2E86CB010@phx.gbl>

Sorry, I just don't quite follow. What is TVI program?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue


Hello,
I may, even though I'm going to be a new transfer student. BTW what do you
mean by "courtesy rules?"
I could also push the high demand there is for TVIs.

BTW, I just wanted to share something, while we are on the subject of STEM
and technology, here's an amazing website for someone who wants to learn
programming, but can't understand all the jargon used by the websites and
textbooks.
http://www.qwitter-client.net/lpthw/index.html
Python can be used in creating PDAs, see the Braille + from APH and Level
star, games in cluding Muds and text games as well as serving as an
introduction to the heavier languages like Java and C++.
Just use Notepad for your text editor and join the program-l list if you
have any questions!

Sorry, just had to push something for those of you who haven't decided on a
major or hobby yet!
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:38 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

Brandon:
Ask your college, to allow you to do, what I'm doing, this October,
(Lord willing.)
Since October is Meet the Blind Month, I'm going to do a seminar on
blindness related stuff, at my college, showing what I do, and how I
do things.
I'd even show them the courtesy rules, that are mentioned.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/24/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> If more colleges had TVI programs available, we could get more good TVIs
> that we need.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 23, 2012, at 3:53 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
> <brandonboy13 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> True, the sighted people in engineering often want to develop things for
>> blind people to use, but very few of them know blind people to ask, or
>> know of any professionals on blind people that could answer their
>> questions. I think the root of the problem is that there aren’t enough 
>> of
>> us to go around and the professionals or people informed about blindness
>> are even more rare than we are.
>> I have often brought up to my college that they should start a TVI 
>> program
>> and they kind of chuckle and ask me where I'll find the teachers... But
>> there are so many students who are going in to special Ed that have heard
>> of being a teacher of the blind, but they know nothing about it. There is
>> one or two places in the special Ed program that talk about blindness
>> related subjects in passing, but that is often very small and obscure.
>> I wonder if there could be a project/class system  or something that 
>> could
>> be developed that a blind student could take to their college that 
>> teaches
>> people a little about what it's like working with blind people. That way
>> colleges may start taking notice of this important field and make it a
>> part of the class catalogue. The information just needs to get out there
>> to the public.
>> The best way for myths about blindness to be dispelled is for a TV show
>> with a blind person as the lead, acting as a blind person, to go on the
>> air. But idk of very many directors who would be able to find someone who
>> could write a good pilot script or direct the movie to show a blind 
>> person
>> as they really are.
>> Blindness is like Opera, people truly just don't know about it! (Les Miz
>> and Phantom are NOT OPERA and Dare devil and all those other blind movie
>> characters aren’t blind!
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message----- From: Justin Salisbury
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:41 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
>>
>> I think some of you are focusing on the technology and its possible uses.
>> What made me want to post this article were the philosophies on blindness
>> expressed in the article and news story.
>>
>> In no connection to the previous discussion of cancer on this thread, I
>> feel like the researchers think their discovery is analogous to finding a
>> cure for cancer when they come up with this technology.  They appear to 
>> me
>> to be trying to tackle tasks that any graduate of an NFB training center
>> can already handle.  If I don't know what is on the counter in front of
>> me, I reach out and touch it.  Let them research whatever they want to
>> research, but I think these people are marked by a profound
>> misunderstanding of blindness.
>>
>> I don't try to fix the fact that I'm blind (as if it's something wrong
>> with me); I try to fix the misunderstandings about blindness.
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> Justin M. Salisbury
>> Class of 2012
>> B.A. in Mathematics
>> East Carolina University
>> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>>
>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
>> change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever 
>>    —MARGARET
>> MEAD
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonboy13%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>

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From wujing19861209 at hotmail.com  Fri May 25 03:49:09 2012
From: wujing19861209 at hotmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Jing_Crystal_Wu_=E5=90=B4=E6=99=B6?=)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 11:49:09 +0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats
	ImplementationDate Release
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>	<3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>	<CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com><D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com><4FBED570.1010508@gmail.com>
	<A079F296EF224540B0A924CEF7D5A617@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP211B6422AB4ED66E18853A4CB010@phx.gbl>

Hey Brandon,

I am curious how did you prepare for the SAT test? I am an international 
student, and was always curious to take this test. Or who can help to find 
some studying material and resource?

Regards,
Crystal
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
To: <freethaught at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats 
ImplementationDate Release


> Hello,
> Nemeth seemed OK to me when I learned it, although there seemed to be 
> quite a few signs that were a little un necessary. But I haven't touched 
> Nemith in over 3 years, so my memory is probably faulty.
> I just hope that things become more compact and less cumbersome to learn. 
> It's my experience that life is better for everyone when language is 
> logical and not full of signs that take lots of education to understand. 
> (Like English!) Who wants to keep spelling knife with a k. Who wants to 
> keep putting Ee at the end of all their words? Why not be like the 
> Italians and spell neutrino just like it sounds?
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Antonio Guimaraes
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:42 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation 
> Date Release
>
> Sophie,
>
> I doubt millions of users know and use Nemeth. The Nemeth system is used
> primarily in the United States, and I don't know that there are this
> many braille readers around.
>
> Antonio
>
>
> On 5/24/2012 3:03 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>> I don't see why BANA feels it must change the perfectly good Nemeth code 
>> that millions of blind users already know. There's nothing wrong with 
>> Nemeth.Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 24, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Joshua 
>> Lester<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I think the formats that wil be emplemented, will also be the changes
>>> to the Nemeth Braille code, for math, that I've been fighting against.
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> The article didn't come through.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: David Andrews
>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
>>>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation 
>>>> Date
>>>> Release
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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> 



From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Fri May 25 05:00:30 2012
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 22:00:30 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP11511CBDB53744A960B2E86CB010@phx.gbl>
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD55B@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com><2CF49A7194154D06857537A1F9F11925@BrandonsLaptop2><4B8EA3D0-17EF-45E4-9644-E5E2F41AA264@gmail.com><CAO83KOvvSvHeMHij+U7P1aY2C50mZwLhZwoxE3OGPXdvtO5Dow@mail.gmail.com><E18A385F5BE1432AA96E56F5F84560C7@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<BLU0-SMTP11511CBDB53744A960B2E86CB010@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <B4528CF67A26491180F3B0E4273BE120@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
That's a great idea getting in contact with the special ed teachers. I'll 
have to do that.
I once gave an introduction to Jaws for a class, but I'm afraid I lost the 
poor sighted students because they weren’t able to use Jaws. Perhaps talking 
about the field of blindness in general would be much more interesting.

BTW, TVI is teacher of the visually Impaired. If you had a teacher who 
taught you Braille and mobility when you were younger, they were probably a 
TVI. There are VI instructors and rehab instructors which generally either 
are specialized in one area, Braille or Mobility, or teaching adults, but a 
TVI does it all.

I had around 8 VI instructors growing up and only 3 of them were worth 
anything. So on top of not having instructors period, many of the ones we 
have are terrible. I'm probably speaking to the choir, but agencies who 
contract out VI instructors are so desperate that if there is a quality TVI 
working somewhere and their reputation gets out, they will go across the 
country to get one instructor and sometimes pay to help them move. Then that 
one instructor is often given so much work that they have to work 14+ hour 
days. But It's my hope that if we're able to encourage the number of TVIs to 
grow, we will have actually competition for jobs and quality will go up.
I knew more technology than all but one of my instructors and I even fired 
one of my TVIs and just said I'd study on my own because they weren’t 
willing to teach me Braille Music or nemith.
I don't think I could even place in a Braille challenge and yet most of my 
teachers knew less than me. I know there are good teachers out there, but 
they are so rare that most people don't ever have one in their life.
There should be a study done on the success of blind people who had an 
extraordinary instructor, compared to those who didn't. I don't think it's 
just Braille literacy that helps people get employed, but I think it's more 
of the quality of instruction that corresponds to the level of job and 
success a blind person has.
I don't think there is any way to get rid of all the incompetent teachers 
except to increase the number of teachers and Agencies contracting out to 
schools who higher the top TVIs.
I wonder if someone has information or could develop a kit/presentation that 
one could read over and present to their schools.
That way we could learn the answers to FAQs and get fancy attractive aids to 
share and inspire our audiences.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

Sorry, I just don't quite follow. What is TVI program?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue


Hello,
I may, even though I'm going to be a new transfer student. BTW what do you
mean by "courtesy rules?"
I could also push the high demand there is for TVIs.

BTW, I just wanted to share something, while we are on the subject of STEM
and technology, here's an amazing website for someone who wants to learn
programming, but can't understand all the jargon used by the websites and
textbooks.
http://www.qwitter-client.net/lpthw/index.html
Python can be used in creating PDAs, see the Braille + from APH and Level
star, games in cluding Muds and text games as well as serving as an
introduction to the heavier languages like Java and C++.
Just use Notepad for your text editor and join the program-l list if you
have any questions!

Sorry, just had to push something for those of you who haven't decided on a
major or hobby yet!
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:38 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

Brandon:
Ask your college, to allow you to do, what I'm doing, this October,
(Lord willing.)
Since October is Meet the Blind Month, I'm going to do a seminar on
blindness related stuff, at my college, showing what I do, and how I
do things.
I'd even show them the courtesy rules, that are mentioned.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/24/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> If more colleges had TVI programs available, we could get more good TVIs
> that we need.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 23, 2012, at 3:53 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
> <brandonboy13 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> True, the sighted people in engineering often want to develop things for
>> blind people to use, but very few of them know blind people to ask, or
>> know of any professionals on blind people that could answer their
>> questions. I think the root of the problem is that there aren’t enough of
>> us to go around and the professionals or people informed about blindness
>> are even more rare than we are.
>> I have often brought up to my college that they should start a TVI 
>> program
>> and they kind of chuckle and ask me where I'll find the teachers... But
>> there are so many students who are going in to special Ed that have heard
>> of being a teacher of the blind, but they know nothing about it. There is
>> one or two places in the special Ed program that talk about blindness
>> related subjects in passing, but that is often very small and obscure.
>> I wonder if there could be a project/class system  or something that 
>> could
>> be developed that a blind student could take to their college that 
>> teaches
>> people a little about what it's like working with blind people. That way
>> colleges may start taking notice of this important field and make it a
>> part of the class catalogue. The information just needs to get out there
>> to the public.
>> The best way for myths about blindness to be dispelled is for a TV show
>> with a blind person as the lead, acting as a blind person, to go on the
>> air. But idk of very many directors who would be able to find someone who
>> could write a good pilot script or direct the movie to show a blind 
>> person
>> as they really are.
>> Blindness is like Opera, people truly just don't know about it! (Les Miz
>> and Phantom are NOT OPERA and Dare devil and all those other blind movie
>> characters aren’t blind!
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message----- From: Justin Salisbury
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:41 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
>>
>> I think some of you are focusing on the technology and its possible uses.
>> What made me want to post this article were the philosophies on blindness
>> expressed in the article and news story.
>>
>> In no connection to the previous discussion of cancer on this thread, I
>> feel like the researchers think their discovery is analogous to finding a
>> cure for cancer when they come up with this technology.  They appear to 
>> me
>> to be trying to tackle tasks that any graduate of an NFB training center
>> can already handle.  If I don't know what is on the counter in front of
>> me, I reach out and touch it.  Let them research whatever they want to
>> research, but I think these people are marked by a profound
>> misunderstanding of blindness.
>>
>> I don't try to fix the fact that I'm blind (as if it's something wrong
>> with me); I try to fix the misunderstandings about blindness.
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> Justin M. Salisbury
>> Class of 2012
>> B.A. in Mathematics
>> East Carolina University
>> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>>
>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
>> change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever —MARGARET
>> MEAD
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonboy13%40comcast.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>

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From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Fri May 25 05:03:27 2012
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 22:03:27 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille FormatsImplementationDate
	Release
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP211B6422AB4ED66E18853A4CB010@phx.gbl>
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>	<3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>	<CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com><D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com><4FBED570.1010508@gmail.com><A079F296EF224540B0A924CEF7D5A617@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<BLU0-SMTP211B6422AB4ED66E18853A4CB010@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <38780671F90740C8B57C30690AB56CE8@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
I did terrible on the SAT, so don't ask me! I got like average on 
everything...
It's my suggestion to go to a community college first, that way not only do 
you get super cheep education and guaranteed transfer to many top schools, 
but you don't have to take the SAT or ACT. You probably do have to take the 
tofal, the English test.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:49 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille FormatsImplementationDate 
Release

Hey Brandon,

I am curious how did you prepare for the SAT test? I am an international
student, and was always curious to take this test. Or who can help to find
some studying material and resource?

Regards,
Crystal
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
To: <freethaught at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing
list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats
ImplementationDate Release


> Hello,
> Nemeth seemed OK to me when I learned it, although there seemed to be 
> quite a few signs that were a little un necessary. But I haven't touched 
> Nemith in over 3 years, so my memory is probably faulty.
> I just hope that things become more compact and less cumbersome to learn. 
> It's my experience that life is better for everyone when language is 
> logical and not full of signs that take lots of education to understand. 
> (Like English!) Who wants to keep spelling knife with a k. Who wants to 
> keep putting Ee at the end of all their words? Why not be like the 
> Italians and spell neutrino just like it sounds?
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Antonio Guimaraes
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:42 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation 
> Date Release
>
> Sophie,
>
> I doubt millions of users know and use Nemeth. The Nemeth system is used
> primarily in the United States, and I don't know that there are this
> many braille readers around.
>
> Antonio
>
>
> On 5/24/2012 3:03 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>> I don't see why BANA feels it must change the perfectly good Nemeth code 
>> that millions of blind users already know. There's nothing wrong with 
>> Nemeth.Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 24, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Joshua 
>> Lester<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I think the formats that wil be emplemented, will also be the changes
>>> to the Nemeth Braille code, for math, that I've been fighting against.
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> The article didn't come through.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: David Andrews
>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
>>>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation 
>>>> Date
>>>> Release
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>>
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>
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri May 25 14:38:14 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 10:38:14 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP11511CBDB53744A960B2E86CB010@phx.gbl>
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD55B@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com><2CF49A7194154D06857537A1F9F11925@BrandonsLaptop2><4B8EA3D0-17EF-45E4-9644-E5E2F41AA264@gmail.com><CAO83KOvvSvHeMHij+U7P1aY2C50mZwLhZwoxE3OGPXdvtO5Dow@mail.gmail.com><E18A385F5BE1432AA96E56F5F84560C7@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<BLU0-SMTP11511CBDB53744A960B2E86CB010@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A889151DDDDE4351B534359C0F014DE0@OwnerPC>

TVI stands for teacher of the visually impaired.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 11:47 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

Sorry, I just don't quite follow. What is TVI program?
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue


Hello,
I may, even though I'm going to be a new transfer student. BTW what do you
mean by "courtesy rules?"
I could also push the high demand there is for TVIs.

BTW, I just wanted to share something, while we are on the subject of STEM
and technology, here's an amazing website for someone who wants to learn
programming, but can't understand all the jargon used by the websites and
textbooks.
http://www.qwitter-client.net/lpthw/index.html
Python can be used in creating PDAs, see the Braille + from APH and Level
star, games in cluding Muds and text games as well as serving as an
introduction to the heavier languages like Java and C++.
Just use Notepad for your text editor and join the program-l list if you
have any questions!

Sorry, just had to push something for those of you who haven't decided on a
major or hobby yet!
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:38 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

Brandon:
Ask your college, to allow you to do, what I'm doing, this October,
(Lord willing.)
Since October is Meet the Blind Month, I'm going to do a seminar on
blindness related stuff, at my college, showing what I do, and how I
do things.
I'd even show them the courtesy rules, that are mentioned.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/24/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> If more colleges had TVI programs available, we could get more good TVIs
> that we need.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 23, 2012, at 3:53 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
> <brandonboy13 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> True, the sighted people in engineering often want to develop things for
>> blind people to use, but very few of them know blind people to ask, or
>> know of any professionals on blind people that could answer their
>> questions. I think the root of the problem is that there aren’t enough of
>> us to go around and the professionals or people informed about blindness
>> are even more rare than we are.
>> I have often brought up to my college that they should start a TVI 
>> program
>> and they kind of chuckle and ask me where I'll find the teachers... But
>> there are so many students who are going in to special Ed that have heard
>> of being a teacher of the blind, but they know nothing about it. There is
>> one or two places in the special Ed program that talk about blindness
>> related subjects in passing, but that is often very small and obscure.
>> I wonder if there could be a project/class system  or something that 
>> could
>> be developed that a blind student could take to their college that 
>> teaches
>> people a little about what it's like working with blind people. That way
>> colleges may start taking notice of this important field and make it a
>> part of the class catalogue. The information just needs to get out there
>> to the public.
>> The best way for myths about blindness to be dispelled is for a TV show
>> with a blind person as the lead, acting as a blind person, to go on the
>> air. But idk of very many directors who would be able to find someone who
>> could write a good pilot script or direct the movie to show a blind 
>> person
>> as they really are.
>> Blindness is like Opera, people truly just don't know about it! (Les Miz
>> and Phantom are NOT OPERA and Dare devil and all those other blind movie
>> characters aren’t blind!
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message----- From: Justin Salisbury
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:41 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
>>
>> I think some of you are focusing on the technology and its possible uses.
>> What made me want to post this article were the philosophies on blindness
>> expressed in the article and news story.
>>
>> In no connection to the previous discussion of cancer on this thread, I
>> feel like the researchers think their discovery is analogous to finding a
>> cure for cancer when they come up with this technology.  They appear to 
>> me
>> to be trying to tackle tasks that any graduate of an NFB training center
>> can already handle.  If I don't know what is on the counter in front of
>> me, I reach out and touch it.  Let them research whatever they want to
>> research, but I think these people are marked by a profound
>> misunderstanding of blindness.
>>
>> I don't try to fix the fact that I'm blind (as if it's something wrong
>> with me); I try to fix the misunderstandings about blindness.
>>
>> Justin
>>
>> Justin M. Salisbury
>> Class of 2012
>> B.A. in Mathematics
>> East Carolina University
>> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>>
>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
>> change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever —MARGARET
>> MEAD
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>>
>>
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>
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Fri May 25 15:15:27 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 10:15:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille FormatsImplementationDate
	Release
In-Reply-To: <38780671F90740C8B57C30690AB56CE8@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com>
	<4FBED570.1010508@gmail.com>
	<A079F296EF224540B0A924CEF7D5A617@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<BLU0-SMTP211B6422AB4ED66E18853A4CB010@phx.gbl>
	<38780671F90740C8B57C30690AB56CE8@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <E431AA3F-996E-4FA5-A653-EBE69A3AECB3@gmail.com>

They do have ACTt and SAT prep books in Braille.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 25, 2012, at 12:03 AM, "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
> I did terrible on the SAT, so don't ask me! I got like average on everything...
> It's my suggestion to go to a community college first, that way not only do you get super cheep education and guaranteed transfer to many top schools, but you don't have to take the SAT or ACT. You probably do have to take the tofal, the English test.
> Thanks,
> 
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- From: Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:49 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille FormatsImplementationDate Release
> 
> Hey Brandon,
> 
> I am curious how did you prepare for the SAT test? I am an international
> student, and was always curious to take this test. Or who can help to find
> some studying material and resource?
> 
> Regards,
> Crystal
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
> To: <freethaught at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 10:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats
> ImplementationDate Release
> 
> 
>> Hello,
>> Nemeth seemed OK to me when I learned it, although there seemed to be quite a few signs that were a little un necessary. But I haven't touched Nemith in over 3 years, so my memory is probably faulty.
>> I just hope that things become more compact and less cumbersome to learn. It's my experience that life is better for everyone when language is logical and not full of signs that take lots of education to understand. (Like English!) Who wants to keep spelling knife with a k. Who wants to keep putting Ee at the end of all their words? Why not be like the Italians and spell neutrino just like it sounds?
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message----- From: Antonio Guimaraes
>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:42 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation Date Release
>> 
>> Sophie,
>> 
>> I doubt millions of users know and use Nemeth. The Nemeth system is used
>> primarily in the United States, and I don't know that there are this
>> many braille readers around.
>> 
>> Antonio
>> 
>> 
>> On 5/24/2012 3:03 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>>> I don't see why BANA feels it must change the perfectly good Nemeth code that millions of blind users already know. There's nothing wrong with Nemeth.Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On May 24, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Joshua Lester<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> I think the formats that wil be emplemented, will also be the changes
>>>> to the Nemeth Braille code, for math, that I've been fighting against.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>> 
>>>> On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> The article didn't come through.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: David Andrews
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
>>>>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation Date
>>>>> Release
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wujing19861209%40hotmail.com
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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> 
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Fri May 25 15:25:38 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 10:25:38 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats
	ImplementationDate Release
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP211B6422AB4ED66E18853A4CB010@phx.gbl>
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com>
	<4FBED570.1010508@gmail.com>
	<A079F296EF224540B0A924CEF7D5A617@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<BLU0-SMTP211B6422AB4ED66E18853A4CB010@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <A24211AD-B6AB-4C3E-8AC5-D0731DD451C1@gmail.com>

Brandon, how'd you do math without nemeth?nd

Sent from my iPhone

On May 24, 2012, at 10:49 PM, Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶<wujing19861209 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hey Brandon,
> 
> I am curious how did you prepare for the SAT test? I am an international student, and was always curious to take this test. Or who can help to find some studying material and resource?
> 
> Regards,
> Crystal
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
> To: <freethaught at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 10:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats ImplementationDate Release
> 
> 
>> Hello,
>> Nemeth seemed OK to me when I learned it, although there seemed to be quite a few signs that were a little un necessary. But I haven't touched Nemith in over 3 years, so my memory is probably faulty.
>> I just hope that things become more compact and less cumbersome to learn. It's my experience that life is better for everyone when language is logical and not full of signs that take lots of education to understand. (Like English!) Who wants to keep spelling knife with a k. Who wants to keep putting Ee at the end of all their words? Why not be like the Italians and spell neutrino just like it sounds?
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message----- From: Antonio Guimaraes
>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:42 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation Date Release
>> 
>> Sophie,
>> 
>> I doubt millions of users know and use Nemeth. The Nemeth system is used
>> primarily in the United States, and I don't know that there are this
>> many braille readers around.
>> 
>> Antonio
>> 
>> 
>> On 5/24/2012 3:03 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>>> I don't see why BANA feels it must change the perfectly good Nemeth code that millions of blind users already know. There's nothing wrong with Nemeth.Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On May 24, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Joshua Lester<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> I think the formats that wil be emplemented, will also be the changes
>>>> to the Nemeth Braille code, for math, that I've been fighting against.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>> 
>>>> On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> The article didn't come through.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: David Andrews
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
>>>>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation Date
>>>>> Release
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wujing19861209%40hotmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Fri May 25 15:42:32 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 10:42:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats
	ImplementationDate Release
In-Reply-To: <A24211AD-B6AB-4C3E-8AC5-D0731DD451C1@gmail.com>
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com>
	<4FBED570.1010508@gmail.com>
	<A079F296EF224540B0A924CEF7D5A617@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<BLU0-SMTP211B6422AB4ED66E18853A4CB010@phx.gbl>
	<A24211AD-B6AB-4C3E-8AC5-D0731DD451C1@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOuQDrvLczLR21hx7ANH+ytuM1Tcsut8v_oy8w8UtkyogQ@mail.gmail.com>

He said, that he used it.
Some people use literary Braille to do it, which is pathetic, IMO.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/25/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
> Brandon, how'd you do math without nemeth?nd
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 24, 2012, at 10:49 PM, Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶<wujing19861209 at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hey Brandon,
>>
>> I am curious how did you prepare for the SAT test? I am an international
>> student, and was always curious to take this test. Or who can help to find
>> some studying material and resource?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Crystal
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Keith Biggs"
>> <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>> To: <freethaught at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students
>> mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 10:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats
>> ImplementationDate Release
>>
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> Nemeth seemed OK to me when I learned it, although there seemed to be
>>> quite a few signs that were a little un necessary. But I haven't touched
>>> Nemith in over 3 years, so my memory is probably faulty.
>>> I just hope that things become more compact and less cumbersome to learn.
>>> It's my experience that life is better for everyone when language is
>>> logical and not full of signs that take lots of education to understand.
>>> (Like English!) Who wants to keep spelling knife with a k. Who wants to
>>> keep putting Ee at the end of all their words? Why not be like the
>>> Italians and spell neutrino just like it sounds?
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Antonio Guimaraes
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:42 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation
>>> Date Release
>>>
>>> Sophie,
>>>
>>> I doubt millions of users know and use Nemeth. The Nemeth system is used
>>> primarily in the United States, and I don't know that there are this
>>> many braille readers around.
>>>
>>> Antonio
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/24/2012 3:03 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>>>> I don't see why BANA feels it must change the perfectly good Nemeth code
>>>> that millions of blind users already know. There's nothing wrong with
>>>> Nemeth.Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On May 24, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Joshua
>>>> Lester<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I think the formats that wil be emplemented, will also be the changes
>>>>> to the Nemeth Braille code, for math, that I've been fighting against.
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> The article didn't come through.
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: David Andrews
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
>>>>>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation
>>>>>> Date
>>>>>> Release
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From wujing19861209 at hotmail.com  Fri May 25 16:10:08 2012
From: wujing19861209 at hotmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Jing_Crystal_Wu_=E5=90=B4=E6=99=B6?=)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 00:10:08 +0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille
	FormatsImplementationDateRelease
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>	<3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>	<CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com><D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com><4FBED570.1010508@gmail.com><A079F296EF224540B0A924CEF7D5A617@BrandonsLaptop2><BLU0-SMTP211B6422AB4ED66E18853A4CB010@phx.gbl>
	<38780671F90740C8B57C30690AB56CE8@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP20751D69F403D6135E5FBAACB010@phx.gbl>

Yes Brandon, I do have this what we call it language efficiency test. I have 
IELTS test score, a relatively high score anyway.

Do I still need to take SAT when I transfer?

Thank you.


Regards,
Crystal
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille 
FormatsImplementationDateRelease


> Hello,
> I did terrible on the SAT, so don't ask me! I got like average on 
> everything...
> It's my suggestion to go to a community college first, that way not only 
> do you get super cheep education and guaranteed transfer to many top 
> schools, but you don't have to take the SAT or ACT. You probably do have 
> to take the tofal, the English test.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:49 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille 
> FormatsImplementationDate Release
>
> Hey Brandon,
>
> I am curious how did you prepare for the SAT test? I am an international
> student, and was always curious to take this test. Or who can help to find
> some studying material and resource?
>
> Regards,
> Crystal
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
> To: <freethaught at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students 
> mailing
> list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 10:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats
> ImplementationDate Release
>
>
>> Hello,
>> Nemeth seemed OK to me when I learned it, although there seemed to be 
>> quite a few signs that were a little un necessary. But I haven't touched 
>> Nemith in over 3 years, so my memory is probably faulty.
>> I just hope that things become more compact and less cumbersome to learn. 
>> It's my experience that life is better for everyone when language is 
>> logical and not full of signs that take lots of education to understand. 
>> (Like English!) Who wants to keep spelling knife with a k. Who wants to 
>> keep putting Ee at the end of all their words? Why not be like the 
>> Italians and spell neutrino just like it sounds?
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Antonio Guimaraes
>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:42 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation 
>> Date Release
>>
>> Sophie,
>>
>> I doubt millions of users know and use Nemeth. The Nemeth system is used
>> primarily in the United States, and I don't know that there are this
>> many braille readers around.
>>
>> Antonio
>>
>>
>> On 5/24/2012 3:03 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>>> I don't see why BANA feels it must change the perfectly good Nemeth code 
>>> that millions of blind users already know. There's nothing wrong with 
>>> Nemeth.Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On May 24, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Joshua 
>>> Lester<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I think the formats that wil be emplemented, will also be the changes
>>>> to the Nemeth Braille code, for math, that I've been fighting against.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> The article didn't come through.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: David Andrews
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
>>>>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation 
>>>>> Date
>>>>> Release
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wujing19861209%40hotmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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> 



From wujing19861209 at hotmail.com  Fri May 25 16:12:50 2012
From: wujing19861209 at hotmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Jing_Crystal_Wu_=E5=90=B4=E6=99=B6?=)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 00:12:50 +0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD55B@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com><2CF49A7194154D06857537A1F9F11925@BrandonsLaptop2><4B8EA3D0-17EF-45E4-9644-E5E2F41AA264@gmail.com><CAO83KOvvSvHeMHij+U7P1aY2C50mZwLhZwoxE3OGPXdvtO5Dow@mail.gmail.com><E18A385F5BE1432AA96E56F5F84560C7@BrandonsLaptop2><BLU0-SMTP11511CBDB53744A960B2E86CB010@phx.gbl>
	<B4528CF67A26491180F3B0E4273BE120@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP207BEAA1CD997B4299851D6CB010@phx.gbl>

I am fortunate in this case to grow up in China. I learned Braille when I 
was little  and music Braille as well. Later, I taught myself grade 2 
English and Swedish Braille, so even though I was born and grew up in a 
relatively poor place, I had the best education among my friends.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 1:00 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue


> Hello,
> That's a great idea getting in contact with the special ed teachers. I'll 
> have to do that.
> I once gave an introduction to Jaws for a class, but I'm afraid I lost the 
> poor sighted students because they weren’t able to use Jaws. Perhaps 
> talking about the field of blindness in general would be much more 
> interesting.
>
> BTW, TVI is teacher of the visually Impaired. If you had a teacher who 
> taught you Braille and mobility when you were younger, they were probably 
> a TVI. There are VI instructors and rehab instructors which generally 
> either are specialized in one area, Braille or Mobility, or teaching 
> adults, but a TVI does it all.
>
> I had around 8 VI instructors growing up and only 3 of them were worth 
> anything. So on top of not having instructors period, many of the ones we 
> have are terrible. I'm probably speaking to the choir, but agencies who 
> contract out VI instructors are so desperate that if there is a quality 
> TVI working somewhere and their reputation gets out, they will go across 
> the country to get one instructor and sometimes pay to help them move. 
> Then that one instructor is often given so much work that they have to 
> work 14+ hour days. But It's my hope that if we're able to encourage the 
> number of TVIs to grow, we will have actually competition for jobs and 
> quality will go up.
> I knew more technology than all but one of my instructors and I even fired 
> one of my TVIs and just said I'd study on my own because they weren’t 
> willing to teach me Braille Music or nemith.
> I don't think I could even place in a Braille challenge and yet most of my 
> teachers knew less than me. I know there are good teachers out there, but 
> they are so rare that most people don't ever have one in their life.
> There should be a study done on the success of blind people who had an 
> extraordinary instructor, compared to those who didn't. I don't think it's 
> just Braille literacy that helps people get employed, but I think it's 
> more of the quality of instruction that corresponds to the level of job 
> and success a blind person has.
> I don't think there is any way to get rid of all the incompetent teachers 
> except to increase the number of teachers and Agencies contracting out to 
> schools who higher the top TVIs.
> I wonder if someone has information or could develop a kit/presentation 
> that one could read over and present to their schools.
> That way we could learn the answers to FAQs and get fancy attractive aids 
> to share and inspire our audiences.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:47 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
>
> Sorry, I just don't quite follow. What is TVI program?
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 11:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
>
>
> Hello,
> I may, even though I'm going to be a new transfer student. BTW what do you
> mean by "courtesy rules?"
> I could also push the high demand there is for TVIs.
>
> BTW, I just wanted to share something, while we are on the subject of STEM
> and technology, here's an amazing website for someone who wants to learn
> programming, but can't understand all the jargon used by the websites and
> textbooks.
> http://www.qwitter-client.net/lpthw/index.html
> Python can be used in creating PDAs, see the Braille + from APH and Level
> star, games in cluding Muds and text games as well as serving as an
> introduction to the heavier languages like Java and C++.
> Just use Notepad for your text editor and join the program-l list if you
> have any questions!
>
> Sorry, just had to push something for those of you who haven't decided on 
> a
> major or hobby yet!
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 12:38 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
>
> Brandon:
> Ask your college, to allow you to do, what I'm doing, this October,
> (Lord willing.)
> Since October is Meet the Blind Month, I'm going to do a seminar on
> blindness related stuff, at my college, showing what I do, and how I
> do things.
> I'd even show them the courtesy rules, that are mentioned.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/24/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>> If more colleges had TVI programs available, we could get more good TVIs
>> that we need.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On May 23, 2012, at 3:53 PM, "Brandon Keith Biggs"
>> <brandonboy13 at comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> True, the sighted people in engineering often want to develop things for
>>> blind people to use, but very few of them know blind people to ask, or
>>> know of any professionals on blind people that could answer their
>>> questions. I think the root of the problem is that there aren’t enough 
>>> of
>>> us to go around and the professionals or people informed about blindness
>>> are even more rare than we are.
>>> I have often brought up to my college that they should start a TVI 
>>> program
>>> and they kind of chuckle and ask me where I'll find the teachers... But
>>> there are so many students who are going in to special Ed that have 
>>> heard
>>> of being a teacher of the blind, but they know nothing about it. There 
>>> is
>>> one or two places in the special Ed program that talk about blindness
>>> related subjects in passing, but that is often very small and obscure.
>>> I wonder if there could be a project/class system  or something that 
>>> could
>>> be developed that a blind student could take to their college that 
>>> teaches
>>> people a little about what it's like working with blind people. That way
>>> colleges may start taking notice of this important field and make it a
>>> part of the class catalogue. The information just needs to get out there
>>> to the public.
>>> The best way for myths about blindness to be dispelled is for a TV show
>>> with a blind person as the lead, acting as a blind person, to go on the
>>> air. But idk of very many directors who would be able to find someone 
>>> who
>>> could write a good pilot script or direct the movie to show a blind 
>>> person
>>> as they really are.
>>> Blindness is like Opera, people truly just don't know about it! (Les Miz
>>> and Phantom are NOT OPERA and Dare devil and all those other blind movie
>>> characters aren’t blind!
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message----- From: Justin Salisbury
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 12:41 PM
>>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
>>>
>>> I think some of you are focusing on the technology and its possible 
>>> uses.
>>> What made me want to post this article were the philosophies on 
>>> blindness
>>> expressed in the article and news story.
>>>
>>> In no connection to the previous discussion of cancer on this thread, I
>>> feel like the researchers think their discovery is analogous to finding 
>>> a
>>> cure for cancer when they come up with this technology.  They appear to 
>>> me
>>> to be trying to tackle tasks that any graduate of an NFB training center
>>> can already handle.  If I don't know what is on the counter in front of
>>> me, I reach out and touch it.  Let them research whatever they want to
>>> research, but I think these people are marked by a profound
>>> misunderstanding of blindness.
>>>
>>> I don't try to fix the fact that I'm blind (as if it's something wrong
>>> with me); I try to fix the misunderstandings about blindness.
>>>
>>> Justin
>>>
>>> Justin M. Salisbury
>>> Class of 2012
>>> B.A. in Mathematics
>>> East Carolina University
>>> president at alumni.ecu.edu
>>>
>>> “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can
>>> change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever —MARGARET
>>> MEAD
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonboy13%40comcast.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Fri May 25 17:21:24 2012
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 10:21:24 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce]
	BrailleFormatsImplementationDateRelease
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP20751D69F403D6135E5FBAACB010@phx.gbl>
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>	<3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>	<CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com><D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com><4FBED570.1010508@gmail.com><A079F296EF224540B0A924CEF7D5A617@BrandonsLaptop2><BLU0-SMTP211B6422AB4ED66E18853A4CB010@phx.gbl><38780671F90740C8B57C30690AB56CE8@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<BLU0-SMTP20751D69F403D6135E5FBAACB010@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <6EF60EA544614C108F9FB829B8FA3DC3@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
I know if you are at a Community college here in the states you don't need 
to take any tests to transfer, as long as you get an AA degree. I have no 
idea about other colleges, but I highly doubt that you need to take the SAT 
or ACT.
My college, Foothill.edu has a fantastic foreign exchange program and I've 
not seen their disability resource center paralleled in quality anywhere. I 
highly recommend trying out this community college if you want to come to 
the states and study, or if you are in the bay area and want an awesome 
community college!
BTW, your English is much better than many natives, and except for a few 
little things like a missing "a" I couldn't tell you from a native...
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 9:10 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] 
BrailleFormatsImplementationDateRelease

Yes Brandon, I do have this what we call it language efficiency test. I have
IELTS test score, a relatively high score anyway.

Do I still need to take SAT when I transfer?

Thank you.


Regards,
Crystal
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille
FormatsImplementationDateRelease


> Hello,
> I did terrible on the SAT, so don't ask me! I got like average on 
> everything...
> It's my suggestion to go to a community college first, that way not only 
> do you get super cheep education and guaranteed transfer to many top 
> schools, but you don't have to take the SAT or ACT. You probably do have 
> to take the tofal, the English test.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:49 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille 
> FormatsImplementationDate Release
>
> Hey Brandon,
>
> I am curious how did you prepare for the SAT test? I am an international
> student, and was always curious to take this test. Or who can help to find
> some studying material and resource?
>
> Regards,
> Crystal
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
> To: <freethaught at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students 
> mailing
> list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 10:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats
> ImplementationDate Release
>
>
>> Hello,
>> Nemeth seemed OK to me when I learned it, although there seemed to be 
>> quite a few signs that were a little un necessary. But I haven't touched 
>> Nemith in over 3 years, so my memory is probably faulty.
>> I just hope that things become more compact and less cumbersome to learn. 
>> It's my experience that life is better for everyone when language is 
>> logical and not full of signs that take lots of education to understand. 
>> (Like English!) Who wants to keep spelling knife with a k. Who wants to 
>> keep putting Ee at the end of all their words? Why not be like the 
>> Italians and spell neutrino just like it sounds?
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Antonio Guimaraes
>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:42 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation 
>> Date Release
>>
>> Sophie,
>>
>> I doubt millions of users know and use Nemeth. The Nemeth system is used
>> primarily in the United States, and I don't know that there are this
>> many braille readers around.
>>
>> Antonio
>>
>>
>> On 5/24/2012 3:03 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>>> I don't see why BANA feels it must change the perfectly good Nemeth code 
>>> that millions of blind users already know. There's nothing wrong with 
>>> Nemeth.Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On May 24, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Joshua 
>>> Lester<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I think the formats that wil be emplemented, will also be the changes
>>>> to the Nemeth Braille code, for math, that I've been fighting against.
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>
>>>> On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>> The article didn't come through.
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: David Andrews
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
>>>>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation 
>>>>> Date
>>>>> Release
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
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>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Fri May 25 18:38:51 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 13:38:51 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
In-Reply-To: <67E36278-ED7D-4FC6-A4EF-180C7B742B21@gmail.com>
References: <4FBB7A55.80803@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOu+Y_9paAm2_dmtC44k8d++bkYdb-8bOr0Eqk9pxTjkow@mail.gmail.com>
	<00a501cd383f$5c0503a0$140f0ae0$@mchsi.com>
	<002401cd3945$b0a0b060$11e21120$@gmail.com>
	<087088E8-0FF9-4740-BB27-114600AB85D9@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOts8TsQJLcxuYef7dspuaX9m+uTXyobbjtcB1gwW1+5zA@mail.gmail.com>
	<4C2E3A74-34FA-45C0-951B-11D632A63DBF@mac.com>
	<CAO83KOu80-7pQYaOQtOZtgK1nh3HsBFE3b6fkypugLQ2WM9RHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<534904DC-9589-477A-A1B0-A8F27A3BDB1E@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOtq2Ok6BFEfpnvn2cc5vagFbgSvsoJev3kcm7eJbeWhNQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<009101cd39f7$3cf5cee0$b6e16ca0$@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOv8z+ZOxkUE2gRbakVaLsd990KK+NtSZp-6TtG1A1fOpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL118-DS269CFE59FDEA0B9C589A3BA000@phx.gbl>
	<C33401297F9E4F899AD75B6857713E4F@OwnerPC>
	<67E36278-ED7D-4FC6-A4EF-180C7B742B21@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <69FCBDA2-8455-41E2-B075-E70582F888F4@gmail.com>

Ashley, I believe you can trade in your Mpower and get the Apex at a discount. Verify this as I'm not 100% sure.

Sent from my iPhone

On May 24, 2012, at 10:04 PM, Chelsea Page <chelseap08 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I use and love my Pac Mate! But that is just my preference
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On May 24, 2012, at 8:03 PM, "Ashley Bramlett" <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
>> Elizabeth,
>> Right, I had an older braille note, the one before the m power and now I have an m power; wish I had the apex, but that is expensive to upgrade.
>> My Braille note did include a carrying case. And btw, it also had a scientific calculator built in to it.
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth
>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:29 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
>> 
>> Joshua,
>> 
>> I am not sure where you are getting your information from, but I believe the
>> Braille note products have included a carrying case for quite some time now.
>> It is perfectly fine that you do not like their products, but what does not
>> work for you may work for others.
>> 
>> Elizabeth
>> 
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:18 PM
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
>> 
>>> It's about time, that Humanware started including those!
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>> 
>>> On 5/24/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Josh,
>>>> 
>>>> To clarify, the BrailleNote Apex does in fact have a carrying case that
>>>> comes with the unit.
>>>> 
>>>> Chris
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Joshua Lester
>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 3:44 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
>>>> 
>>>> There are tons of compartments, that snap, and unsnap.
>>>> We don't need all of that.
>>>> Also, the BN doesn't have a carrying case.
>>>> You have to purchase one.
>>>> The Pac Mate has one that comes with it, and you don't have to pay for the
>>>> case!
>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>> 
>>>> On 5/24/12, Sophie Trist <sweetpeareader at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> What unnecessary compartments?
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>> On May 24, 2012, at 2:33 PM, Joshua Lester
>>>>> <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Humanware could lose the unnecessary compartments, on the Braillenote.
>>>>>> John's right, that the Orion is better.
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 5/24/12, John Moore <coasterfreak88 at mac.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Do you want to start our old argument again Josh? Lol. Personally, I
>>>>>>> don't think notetaker calculators are as good as dedicated ones like
>>>>>>> the Orion.
>>>>>>> THe Orion has more functionality than both notetakers put together.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st
>>>>>>> udents.pccua.edu
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40
>>>>>> gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
>>>>> ents.pccua.edu
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
>>>> om
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From kobycox at gmail.com  Fri May 25 18:43:56 2012
From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 13:43:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
Message-ID: <4fbfd2ef.13f5b60a.5e6b.6bf9@mx.google.com>

Teacher of the visually impaired.
Koby.


From kobycox at gmail.com  Fri May 25 18:43:59 2012
From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 13:43:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Scientific Calculators
Message-ID: <4fbfd2f2.13f5b60a.5e6b.6bfa@mx.google.com>

You are correct about that.  I'm not sure how it works however, 
If you'd like me to I'd be more than glad to contact HumanWare 
for you and get some Info about this and pass it along to you.  
Would you like me to do that for you?
Koby.


From sweetpeareader at gmail.com  Fri May 25 18:46:01 2012
From: sweetpeareader at gmail.com (Sophie Trist)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 13:46:01 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation
	Date Release
In-Reply-To: <4FBED570.1010508@gmail.com>
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com>
	<D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com>
	<4FBED570.1010508@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4726CACB-A135-433A-9BC3-737B68F456B1@gmail.com>

You're right I exaggerated. I just don't wanna learn a new code when Nemeth is fine. To quote Josh, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Sent from my iPhone

On May 24, 2012, at 7:42 PM, Antonio Guimaraes <freethaught at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sophie,
> 
> I doubt millions of users know and use Nemeth. The Nemeth system is used primarily in the United States, and I don't know that there are this many braille readers around.
> 
> Antonio
> 
> 
> On 5/24/2012 3:03 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>> I don't see why BANA feels it must change the perfectly good Nemeth code that millions of blind users already know. There's nothing wrong with Nemeth.Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On May 24, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Joshua Lester<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>  wrote:
>> 
>>   
>>> I think the formats that wil be emplemented, will also be the changes
>>> to the Nemeth Braille code, for math, that I've been fighting against.
>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>> 
>>> On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>     
>>>> Hello,
>>>> The article didn't come through.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> 
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: David Andrews
>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
>>>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation Date
>>>> Release
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>> 
>>>>       
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>>>     
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com
>>   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri May 25 20:06:07 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 14:06:07 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <4fbfd2ef.13f5b60a.5e6b.6bf9@mx.google.com>
References: <4fbfd2ef.13f5b60a.5e6b.6bf9@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDhp0gx=x99rWXJWthhtKLXaAGYFVhA3mt2BSFnuDWpyg@mail.gmail.com>

Could you imagine a school hiring a reading teacher who didn't know
how to read or write? Is that any worse than hiring a TVI who doesn't
really know Braille?
Arielle

On 5/25/12, Koby Cox <kobycox at gmail.com> wrote:
> Teacher of the visually impaired.
> Koby.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Fri May 25 22:49:22 2012
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 15:49:22 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJDhp0gx=x99rWXJWthhtKLXaAGYFVhA3mt2BSFnuDWpyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4fbfd2ef.13f5b60a.5e6b.6bf9@mx.google.com>
	<CALAYQJDhp0gx=x99rWXJWthhtKLXaAGYFVhA3mt2BSFnuDWpyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D916FD5AFF014A6C94949E5CA7F20DA3@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
It's someone who knows how to read English being asked to teach French. Of 
course the teacher should know French German and Italian in order to teach 
languages, but they are just used to teaching younger kids basic grammar. 
That basic grammer doesn't cut it for older students.
I wanted to learn nemith and music and she just sat there while I went 
through a Hadley course. She didn't participate very much at all. When I 
asked to learn music, she was like Oh no, I don't know about that, there 
isn't any course that teaches it and I don't know it...
Of course she was talking off the top of her head and hadn't been doing her 
homework...
As a student I'm expected to constantly be checking what's going on in my 
field and learning about as much as I can. That won't stop when I'm a 
professional, it will get harder! Just because you graduate from school 
doesn't mean you can be a slacker and still call yourself a professional!
School districts and agencies need to separate the dead weights from the 
active teachers and get rid of them. Because the only thing that a bad TVI 
does to someone that's more advanced than they are is bring them down and 
that's the most terrible thing one can do to an enthusiastic student.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 1:06 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

Could you imagine a school hiring a reading teacher who didn't know
how to read or write? Is that any worse than hiring a TVI who doesn't
really know Braille?
Arielle

On 5/25/12, Koby Cox <kobycox at gmail.com> wrote:
> Teacher of the visually impaired.
> Koby.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com 



From wujing19861209 at hotmail.com  Sat May 26 02:07:29 2012
From: wujing19861209 at hotmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Jing_Crystal_Wu_=E5=90=B4=E6=99=B6?=)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 10:07:29 +0800
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd:
	[BANA-Announce]BrailleFormatsImplementationDateRelease
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>	<3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>	<CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com><D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com><4FBED570.1010508@gmail.com><A079F296EF224540B0A924CEF7D5A617@BrandonsLaptop2><BLU0-SMTP211B6422AB4ED66E18853A4CB010@phx.gbl><38780671F90740C8B57C30690AB56CE8@BrandonsLaptop2><BLU0-SMTP20751D69F403D6135E5FBAACB010@phx.gbl>
	<6EF60EA544614C108F9FB829B8FA3DC3@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP1654C4D5B50BDD97B62B866CB060@phx.gbl>

Hey Brandon,

You know, I studied in the states for a year before, then moved to 
Stockholm. Well, I don't think I speak better than natives, but certainly 
have the possibility to communicate without any barriers. I am just trying 
to figure out this crazy SAT test that I wanted to try for many years.

Regards,
Crystal
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:21 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: 
[BANA-Announce]BrailleFormatsImplementationDateRelease


> Hello,
> I know if you are at a Community college here in the states you don't need 
> to take any tests to transfer, as long as you get an AA degree. I have no 
> idea about other colleges, but I highly doubt that you need to take the 
> SAT or ACT.
> My college, Foothill.edu has a fantastic foreign exchange program and I've 
> not seen their disability resource center paralleled in quality anywhere. 
> I highly recommend trying out this community college if you want to come 
> to the states and study, or if you are in the bay area and want an awesome 
> community college!
> BTW, your English is much better than many natives, and except for a few 
> little things like a missing "a" I couldn't tell you from a native...
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 9:10 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] 
> BrailleFormatsImplementationDateRelease
>
> Yes Brandon, I do have this what we call it language efficiency test. I 
> have
> IELTS test score, a relatively high score anyway.
>
> Do I still need to take SAT when I transfer?
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> Regards,
> Crystal
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 1:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille
> FormatsImplementationDateRelease
>
>
>> Hello,
>> I did terrible on the SAT, so don't ask me! I got like average on 
>> everything...
>> It's my suggestion to go to a community college first, that way not only 
>> do you get super cheep education and guaranteed transfer to many top 
>> schools, but you don't have to take the SAT or ACT. You probably do have 
>> to take the tofal, the English test.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶
>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:49 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille 
>> FormatsImplementationDate Release
>>
>> Hey Brandon,
>>
>> I am curious how did you prepare for the SAT test? I am an international
>> student, and was always curious to take this test. Or who can help to 
>> find
>> some studying material and resource?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Crystal
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>> To: <freethaught at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students 
>> mailing
>> list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 10:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats
>> ImplementationDate Release
>>
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> Nemeth seemed OK to me when I learned it, although there seemed to be 
>>> quite a few signs that were a little un necessary. But I haven't touched 
>>> Nemith in over 3 years, so my memory is probably faulty.
>>> I just hope that things become more compact and less cumbersome to 
>>> learn. It's my experience that life is better for everyone when language 
>>> is logical and not full of signs that take lots of education to 
>>> understand. (Like English!) Who wants to keep spelling knife with a k. 
>>> Who wants to keep putting Ee at the end of all their words? Why not be 
>>> like the Italians and spell neutrino just like it sounds?
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>> From: Antonio Guimaraes
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:42 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats 
>>> Implementation Date Release
>>>
>>> Sophie,
>>>
>>> I doubt millions of users know and use Nemeth. The Nemeth system is used
>>> primarily in the United States, and I don't know that there are this
>>> many braille readers around.
>>>
>>> Antonio
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/24/2012 3:03 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>>>> I don't see why BANA feels it must change the perfectly good Nemeth 
>>>> code that millions of blind users already know. There's nothing wrong 
>>>> with Nemeth.Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On May 24, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Joshua 
>>>> Lester<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I think the formats that wil be emplemented, will also be the changes
>>>>> to the Nemeth Braille code, for math, that I've been fighting against.
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> The article didn't come through.
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: David Andrews
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
>>>>>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation 
>>>>>> Date
>>>>>> Release
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wujing19861209%40hotmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wujing19861209%40hotmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wujing19861209%40hotmail.com
> 



From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Sat May 26 03:07:32 2012
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 20:07:32 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l]
	Fwd:[BANA-Announce]BrailleFormatsImplementationDateRelease
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP1654C4D5B50BDD97B62B866CB060@phx.gbl>
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>	<3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>	<CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com><D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com><4FBED570.1010508@gmail.com><A079F296EF224540B0A924CEF7D5A617@BrandonsLaptop2><BLU0-SMTP211B6422AB4ED66E18853A4CB010@phx.gbl><38780671F90740C8B57C30690AB56CE8@BrandonsLaptop2><BLU0-SMTP20751D69F403D6135E5FBAACB010@phx.gbl><6EF60EA544614C108F9FB829B8FA3DC3@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<BLU0-SMTP1654C4D5B50BDD97B62B866CB060@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <40E5D87B7469422AAD5CEBEA76FAFA84@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
If you want to take the SAT, go right ahead! But I wouldn't take it unless I 
had to. It's like a week of 6 hours of sitting in a room reading and writing 
out answers...
It really only tests you on your skill at taking tests. It has very little 
to do with your actual knowledge as it only tests a few subjects very 
briefly. I have no idea why colleges ask students to take it, but they do.
Just to show how well the SAT worked for me, I got
SAT
Reading: 570
Math: 560,
Writing: 540
1500 total is the average and for top schools you'd need 2100.
This was right before I graduated from high school.
I graduated with a 4.8 high school GPA and 416 credits...
My English was, A in the honors section (Both critical thinking and writing) 
and my math class was b in the non honors section. So yeah, I don't think my 
score really reflected that...
But if you want to take it I'd make sure you're studying as many SAT study 
books as you can. Because SAT books are really the only things that can help 
you get a high score.
Also, if you're planning on going to Stanford, they require the SAT from 
everyone, so that's one reason to take it.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 7:07 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] 
Fwd:[BANA-Announce]BrailleFormatsImplementationDateRelease

Hey Brandon,

You know, I studied in the states for a year before, then moved to
Stockholm. Well, I don't think I speak better than natives, but certainly
have the possibility to communicate without any barriers. I am just trying
to figure out this crazy SAT test that I wanted to try for many years.

Regards,
Crystal
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:21 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd:
[BANA-Announce]BrailleFormatsImplementationDateRelease


> Hello,
> I know if you are at a Community college here in the states you don't need 
> to take any tests to transfer, as long as you get an AA degree. I have no 
> idea about other colleges, but I highly doubt that you need to take the 
> SAT or ACT.
> My college, Foothill.edu has a fantastic foreign exchange program and I've 
> not seen their disability resource center paralleled in quality anywhere. 
> I highly recommend trying out this community college if you want to come 
> to the states and study, or if you are in the bay area and want an awesome 
> community college!
> BTW, your English is much better than many natives, and except for a few 
> little things like a missing "a" I couldn't tell you from a native...
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 9:10 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] 
> BrailleFormatsImplementationDateRelease
>
> Yes Brandon, I do have this what we call it language efficiency test. I 
> have
> IELTS test score, a relatively high score anyway.
>
> Do I still need to take SAT when I transfer?
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> Regards,
> Crystal
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 1:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille
> FormatsImplementationDateRelease
>
>
>> Hello,
>> I did terrible on the SAT, so don't ask me! I got like average on 
>> everything...
>> It's my suggestion to go to a community college first, that way not only 
>> do you get super cheep education and guaranteed transfer to many top 
>> schools, but you don't have to take the SAT or ACT. You probably do have 
>> to take the tofal, the English test.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶
>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:49 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille 
>> FormatsImplementationDate Release
>>
>> Hey Brandon,
>>
>> I am curious how did you prepare for the SAT test? I am an international
>> student, and was always curious to take this test. Or who can help to 
>> find
>> some studying material and resource?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Crystal
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>> To: <freethaught at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students 
>> mailing
>> list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 10:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats
>> ImplementationDate Release
>>
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> Nemeth seemed OK to me when I learned it, although there seemed to be 
>>> quite a few signs that were a little un necessary. But I haven't touched 
>>> Nemith in over 3 years, so my memory is probably faulty.
>>> I just hope that things become more compact and less cumbersome to 
>>> learn. It's my experience that life is better for everyone when language 
>>> is logical and not full of signs that take lots of education to 
>>> understand. (Like English!) Who wants to keep spelling knife with a k. 
>>> Who wants to keep putting Ee at the end of all their words? Why not be 
>>> like the Italians and spell neutrino just like it sounds?
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>> From: Antonio Guimaraes
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:42 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats 
>>> Implementation Date Release
>>>
>>> Sophie,
>>>
>>> I doubt millions of users know and use Nemeth. The Nemeth system is used
>>> primarily in the United States, and I don't know that there are this
>>> many braille readers around.
>>>
>>> Antonio
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/24/2012 3:03 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>>>> I don't see why BANA feels it must change the perfectly good Nemeth 
>>>> code that millions of blind users already know. There's nothing wrong 
>>>> with Nemeth.Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On May 24, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Joshua 
>>>> Lester<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I think the formats that wil be emplemented, will also be the changes
>>>>> to the Nemeth Braille code, for math, that I've been fighting against.
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> The article didn't come through.
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: David Andrews
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
>>>>>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation 
>>>>>> Date
>>>>>> Release
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wujing19861209%40hotmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wujing19861209%40hotmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat May 26 03:55:02 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2012 23:55:02 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l]
	Fwd:[BANA-Announce]BrailleFormatsImplementationDateRelease
In-Reply-To: <BLU0-SMTP1654C4D5B50BDD97B62B866CB060@phx.gbl>
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>	<3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>	<CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com><D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com><4FBED570.1010508@gmail.com><A079F296EF224540B0A924CEF7D5A617@BrandonsLaptop2><BLU0-SMTP211B6422AB4ED66E18853A4CB010@phx.gbl><38780671F90740C8B57C30690AB56CE8@BrandonsLaptop2><BLU0-SMTP20751D69F403D6135E5FBAACB010@phx.gbl><6EF60EA544614C108F9FB829B8FA3DC3@BrandonsLaptop2>
	<BLU0-SMTP1654C4D5B50BDD97B62B866CB060@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <252C2360A21F478E8A26E8443778E187@OwnerPC>

Crystal,
Some colleges require SAT scores for admissions. Others do not. So ask the 
individual colleges you select.
The SAT is a general test of skills such as reading, vocabulary, and 
writing. There is a lot of multiple choice on it. They changed the format 
since I took it my senior year of high school; that was ten years ago. But 
most of the skills it tests are the same. I suggest studying for it and 
perhaps taking some pre SAT tests if you plan to take it.

Good luck in your American studies.
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 10:07 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] 
Fwd:[BANA-Announce]BrailleFormatsImplementationDateRelease

Hey Brandon,

You know, I studied in the states for a year before, then moved to
Stockholm. Well, I don't think I speak better than natives, but certainly
have the possibility to communicate without any barriers. I am just trying
to figure out this crazy SAT test that I wanted to try for many years.

Regards,
Crystal
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:21 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd:
[BANA-Announce]BrailleFormatsImplementationDateRelease


> Hello,
> I know if you are at a Community college here in the states you don't need 
> to take any tests to transfer, as long as you get an AA degree. I have no 
> idea about other colleges, but I highly doubt that you need to take the 
> SAT or ACT.
> My college, Foothill.edu has a fantastic foreign exchange program and I've 
> not seen their disability resource center paralleled in quality anywhere. 
> I highly recommend trying out this community college if you want to come 
> to the states and study, or if you are in the bay area and want an awesome 
> community college!
> BTW, your English is much better than many natives, and except for a few 
> little things like a missing "a" I couldn't tell you from a native...
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 9:10 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] 
> BrailleFormatsImplementationDateRelease
>
> Yes Brandon, I do have this what we call it language efficiency test. I 
> have
> IELTS test score, a relatively high score anyway.
>
> Do I still need to take SAT when I transfer?
>
> Thank you.
>
>
> Regards,
> Crystal
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 1:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille
> FormatsImplementationDateRelease
>
>
>> Hello,
>> I did terrible on the SAT, so don't ask me! I got like average on 
>> everything...
>> It's my suggestion to go to a community college first, that way not only 
>> do you get super cheep education and guaranteed transfer to many top 
>> schools, but you don't have to take the SAT or ACT. You probably do have 
>> to take the tofal, the English test.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶
>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:49 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille 
>> FormatsImplementationDate Release
>>
>> Hey Brandon,
>>
>> I am curious how did you prepare for the SAT test? I am an international
>> student, and was always curious to take this test. Or who can help to 
>> find
>> some studying material and resource?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Crystal
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>> To: <freethaught at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students 
>> mailing
>> list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 10:41 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats
>> ImplementationDate Release
>>
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> Nemeth seemed OK to me when I learned it, although there seemed to be 
>>> quite a few signs that were a little un necessary. But I haven't touched 
>>> Nemith in over 3 years, so my memory is probably faulty.
>>> I just hope that things become more compact and less cumbersome to 
>>> learn. It's my experience that life is better for everyone when language 
>>> is logical and not full of signs that take lots of education to 
>>> understand. (Like English!) Who wants to keep spelling knife with a k. 
>>> Who wants to keep putting Ee at the end of all their words? Why not be 
>>> like the Italians and spell neutrino just like it sounds?
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>> From: Antonio Guimaraes
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:42 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats 
>>> Implementation Date Release
>>>
>>> Sophie,
>>>
>>> I doubt millions of users know and use Nemeth. The Nemeth system is used
>>> primarily in the United States, and I don't know that there are this
>>> many braille readers around.
>>>
>>> Antonio
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/24/2012 3:03 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>>>> I don't see why BANA feels it must change the perfectly good Nemeth 
>>>> code that millions of blind users already know. There's nothing wrong 
>>>> with Nemeth.Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On May 24, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Joshua 
>>>> Lester<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I think the formats that wil be emplemented, will also be the changes
>>>>> to the Nemeth Braille code, for math, that I've been fighting against.
>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>> The article didn't come through.
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: David Andrews
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
>>>>>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats Implementation 
>>>>>> Date
>>>>>> Release
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wujing19861209%40hotmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wujing19861209%40hotmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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>
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From wujing19861209 at hotmail.com  Sat May 26 06:42:14 2012
From: wujing19861209 at hotmail.com (=?utf-8?Q?Jing_Crystal_Wu_=E5=90=B4=E6=99=B6?=)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 14:42:14 +0800
Subject: [nabs-l]
	Fwd:[BANA-Announce]BrailleFormatsImplementationDateRelease
References: <auto-000062394147@mailfront3.g2host.com>	<3F604A25932A48A1A9191919431D10ED@BrandonsLaptop2>	<CAO83KOvuVmb+W_8v2bBr6sefWW774cLGTAuZ7wUcWiHXkCjdnw@mail.gmail.com><D1D7D223-9BEB-4D93-8AC4-6C4F55ABA94B@gmail.com><4FBED570.1010508@gmail.com><A079F296EF224540B0A924CEF7D5A617@BrandonsLaptop2><BLU0-SMTP211B6422AB4ED66E18853A4CB010@phx.gbl><38780671F90740C8B57C30690AB56CE8@BrandonsLaptop2><BLU0-SMTP20751D69F403D6135E5FBAACB010@phx.gbl><6EF60EA544614C108F9FB829B8FA3DC3@BrandonsLaptop2><BLU0-SMTP1654C4D5B50BDD97B62B866CB060@phx.gbl>
	<40E5D87B7469422AAD5CEBEA76FAFA84@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP1628F35FEAAA5E6F0D96F46CB060@phx.gbl>

Dear Brandon,

That's correct. I also do not understand why they require students to take 
such a test. As in China, students are often forced to study strange 
subjects. I really don't know.

Crystal
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: 
[nabs-l]Fwd:[BANA-Announce]BrailleFormatsImplementationDateRelease


> Hello,
> If you want to take the SAT, go right ahead! But I wouldn't take it unless 
> I had to. It's like a week of 6 hours of sitting in a room reading and 
> writing out answers...
> It really only tests you on your skill at taking tests. It has very little 
> to do with your actual knowledge as it only tests a few subjects very 
> briefly. I have no idea why colleges ask students to take it, but they do.
> Just to show how well the SAT worked for me, I got
> SAT
> Reading: 570
> Math: 560,
> Writing: 540
> 1500 total is the average and for top schools you'd need 2100.
> This was right before I graduated from high school.
> I graduated with a 4.8 high school GPA and 416 credits...
> My English was, A in the honors section (Both critical thinking and 
> writing) and my math class was b in the non honors section. So yeah, I 
> don't think my score really reflected that...
> But if you want to take it I'd make sure you're studying as many SAT study 
> books as you can. Because SAT books are really the only things that can 
> help you get a high score.
> Also, if you're planning on going to Stanford, they require the SAT from 
> everyone, so that's one reason to take it.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 7:07 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] 
> Fwd:[BANA-Announce]BrailleFormatsImplementationDateRelease
>
> Hey Brandon,
>
> You know, I studied in the states for a year before, then moved to
> Stockholm. Well, I don't think I speak better than natives, but certainly
> have the possibility to communicate without any barriers. I am just trying
> to figure out this crazy SAT test that I wanted to try for many years.
>
> Regards,
> Crystal
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 1:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd:
> [BANA-Announce]BrailleFormatsImplementationDateRelease
>
>
>> Hello,
>> I know if you are at a Community college here in the states you don't 
>> need to take any tests to transfer, as long as you get an AA degree. I 
>> have no idea about other colleges, but I highly doubt that you need to 
>> take the SAT or ACT.
>> My college, Foothill.edu has a fantastic foreign exchange program and 
>> I've not seen their disability resource center paralleled in quality 
>> anywhere. I highly recommend trying out this community college if you 
>> want to come to the states and study, or if you are in the bay area and 
>> want an awesome community college!
>> BTW, your English is much better than many natives, and except for a few 
>> little things like a missing "a" I couldn't tell you from a native...
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message----- 
>> From: Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶
>> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 9:10 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] 
>> BrailleFormatsImplementationDateRelease
>>
>> Yes Brandon, I do have this what we call it language efficiency test. I 
>> have
>> IELTS test score, a relatively high score anyway.
>>
>> Do I still need to take SAT when I transfer?
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Crystal
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 1:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille
>> FormatsImplementationDateRelease
>>
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I did terrible on the SAT, so don't ask me! I got like average on 
>>> everything...
>>> It's my suggestion to go to a community college first, that way not only 
>>> do you get super cheep education and guaranteed transfer to many top 
>>> schools, but you don't have to take the SAT or ACT. You probably do have 
>>> to take the tofal, the English test.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>> From: Jing Crystal Wu 吴晶
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 8:49 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille 
>>> FormatsImplementationDate Release
>>>
>>> Hey Brandon,
>>>
>>> I am curious how did you prepare for the SAT test? I am an international
>>> student, and was always curious to take this test. Or who can help to 
>>> find
>>> some studying material and resource?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Crystal
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>
>>> To: <freethaught at gmail.com>; "National Association of Blind Students 
>>> mailing
>>> list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2012 10:41 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats
>>> ImplementationDate Release
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>> Nemeth seemed OK to me when I learned it, although there seemed to be 
>>>> quite a few signs that were a little un necessary. But I haven't 
>>>> touched Nemith in over 3 years, so my memory is probably faulty.
>>>> I just hope that things become more compact and less cumbersome to 
>>>> learn. It's my experience that life is better for everyone when 
>>>> language is logical and not full of signs that take lots of education 
>>>> to understand. (Like English!) Who wants to keep spelling knife with a 
>>>> k. Who wants to keep putting Ee at the end of all their words? Why not 
>>>> be like the Italians and spell neutrino just like it sounds?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>> -----Original Message----- 
>>>> From: Antonio Guimaraes
>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:42 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats 
>>>> Implementation Date Release
>>>>
>>>> Sophie,
>>>>
>>>> I doubt millions of users know and use Nemeth. The Nemeth system is 
>>>> used
>>>> primarily in the United States, and I don't know that there are this
>>>> many braille readers around.
>>>>
>>>> Antonio
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 5/24/2012 3:03 PM, Sophie Trist wrote:
>>>>> I don't see why BANA feels it must change the perfectly good Nemeth 
>>>>> code that millions of blind users already know. There's nothing wrong 
>>>>> with Nemeth.Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 24, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Joshua 
>>>>> Lester<jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the formats that wil be emplemented, will also be the changes
>>>>>> to the Nemeth Braille code, for math, that I've been fighting 
>>>>>> against.
>>>>>> Blessings, Joshua
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 5/24/12, Brandon Keith Biggs<brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>> The article didn't come through.
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: David Andrews
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 6:20 AM
>>>>>>> To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [BANA-Announce] Braille Formats 
>>>>>>> Implementation Date
>>>>>>> Release
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sweetpeareader%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/freethaught%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wujing19861209%40hotmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wujing19861209%40hotmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wujing19861209%40hotmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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> 



From jordyn2493 at gmail.com  Sat May 26 14:01:58 2012
From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 10:01:58 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
Message-ID: <4FC0E256.9080109@gmail.com>

Hey guys!
So you know how we were talking about the GPS app for the iPhone from 
Sendero being a possibility? Well, I looked at the Agenda for 
convention, and look!!! This is an item for one of the General sessions. :)

"THE SEEINGEYE APP: GPS FOR THE BLIND ON THE iPHONE

Mike May, Chief Executive Officer, Sendero Group; Davis, California"
I can't wait!! Our convention is so exciting this year!
Anyways, just wanted to let you know.
Jordyn


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sat May 26 14:16:48 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 09:16:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
In-Reply-To: <4FC0E256.9080109@gmail.com>
References: <4FC0E256.9080109@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOsnr9vEA77_bPHGV7BGxw0X=6Vv9x2G-eco=Ppe+nNBCw@mail.gmail.com>

What?
You got the agenda, before everyone else?
Please send it to me, off list!
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/26/12, Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey guys!
> So you know how we were talking about the GPS app for the iPhone from
> Sendero being a possibility? Well, I looked at the Agenda for
> convention, and look!!! This is an item for one of the General sessions. :)
>
> "THE SEEINGEYE APP: GPS FOR THE BLIND ON THE iPHONE
>
> Mike May, Chief Executive Officer, Sendero Group; Davis, California"
> I can't wait!! Our convention is so exciting this year!
> Anyways, just wanted to let you know.
> Jordyn
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From jordyn2493 at gmail.com  Sat May 26 14:23:25 2012
From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 10:23:25 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOsnr9vEA77_bPHGV7BGxw0X=6Vv9x2G-eco=Ppe+nNBCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4FC0E256.9080109@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOsnr9vEA77_bPHGV7BGxw0X=6Vv9x2G-eco=Ppe+nNBCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FC0E75D.9090501@gmail.com>

Um lol. I did not get the agenda before everyone else. Go to the NFB's 
website, click National Convention, and one of the headings is Agenda. 
The agenda must have been posted yesterday.
Jordyn
On 5/26/2012 10:16 AM, Joshua Lester wrote:
> What?
> You got the agenda, before everyone else?
> Please send it to me, off list!
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/26/12, Jordyn Castor<jordyn2493 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> Hey guys!
>> So you know how we were talking about the GPS app for the iPhone from
>> Sendero being a possibility? Well, I looked at the Agenda for
>> convention, and look!!! This is an item for one of the General sessions. :)
>>
>> "THE SEEINGEYE APP: GPS FOR THE BLIND ON THE iPHONE
>>
>> Mike May, Chief Executive Officer, Sendero Group; Davis, California"
>> I can't wait!! Our convention is so exciting this year!
>> Anyways, just wanted to let you know.
>> Jordyn
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sat May 26 14:28:49 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 09:28:49 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
In-Reply-To: <4FC0E75D.9090501@gmail.com>
References: <4FC0E256.9080109@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOsnr9vEA77_bPHGV7BGxw0X=6Vv9x2G-eco=Ppe+nNBCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4FC0E75D.9090501@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOt5OBSUPGA6fFdjL4TaxJzey1VGwggEprQyAo_0-dNBRg@mail.gmail.com>

Okay.
Someone usually posts the agenda on one of these lists, but noone ever did.
I'll check the site, in a few minutes.
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/26/12, Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Um lol. I did not get the agenda before everyone else. Go to the NFB's
> website, click National Convention, and one of the headings is Agenda.
> The agenda must have been posted yesterday.
> Jordyn
> On 5/26/2012 10:16 AM, Joshua Lester wrote:
>> What?
>> You got the agenda, before everyone else?
>> Please send it to me, off list!
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/26/12, Jordyn Castor<jordyn2493 at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> Hey guys!
>>> So you know how we were talking about the GPS app for the iPhone from
>>> Sendero being a possibility? Well, I looked at the Agenda for
>>> convention, and look!!! This is an item for one of the General sessions.
>>> :)
>>>
>>> "THE SEEINGEYE APP: GPS FOR THE BLIND ON THE iPHONE
>>>
>>> Mike May, Chief Executive Officer, Sendero Group; Davis, California"
>>> I can't wait!! Our convention is so exciting this year!
>>> Anyways, just wanted to let you know.
>>> Jordyn
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From raydar11011 at yahoo.com  Sat May 26 14:31:01 2012
From: raydar11011 at yahoo.com (Reinhard Stebner)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 10:31:01 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
Message-ID: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com>

Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the GRE and
could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test administration was
done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you use
assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank you for
your help.


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat May 26 15:09:33 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 11:09:33 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com>
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC>

Hi,
I might need this if I try grad school. Also, how long will the test take 
when you get extended time? What subjects are tested?
How can you mark your answers? I'd opt for braille if they can provide it in 
braille. But you cannot mark in a braille test.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Reinhard Stebner
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:31 AM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE

Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the GRE and
could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test administration was
done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you use
assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank you for
your help.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sat May 26 15:36:59 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 10:36:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtkqG5GM=sbV0u1Vdz2StXZQG4Tp-0jXz39jJxNE+KYPw@mail.gmail.com>

I went to the Website, and all I found was a vague schedule.
What time will the NABS meeting be?
Thanks, Joshua


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sat May 26 15:44:26 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 09:44:26 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC>
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com>
	<015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJCp9sqjEZg=p=XWfZcMAORRQ8hST170rtbAPzDx6C3pSw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
I took the GRE way back in 2007 and many things have changed since
then. For the most up-to-date information, I suggest contacting Ruth
Loew, assistant director of disability policy at ETS, at
rloew at ets.org
She has been involved with NABS for a long time and is very interested
in helping blind students navigate the accommodations system.
I do know that you can get Braille prep materials for the verbal and
math sections. You can choose to take the test using Braille, large
print or through a reader. There was an accessible "self-voicing"
version of the computer test that can be taken independently via
computer, but I believe that since the test changed recently, we are
still waiting for the new self-voicing version to be finalized and
made available to test-takers.
If using Braille, I believe the only way to mark your answers is with
a reader, at least until the self-voicing test is ready. You are
allowed to use a Perkins Brailler to write the essays for the writing
section and to do scratchwork for the math section, but you will
eventually need to dictate your Brailled essay to the reader.
One disadvantage of the Braille test is that it is the "paper-based"
test, while the reader-administered and self-voicing versions are the
"computer-based" test. Nowadays most of your sighted peers applying to
grad school will be taking the computer test, and also the computer
test is scored instantly, whereas the paper test takes a while to be
graded. However, there are obvious advantages to using Braille if you
are a Braille reader. I personally think the self-voicing test is the
best option, when it becomes available, as a blind test-taker can
complete it independently and there is no risk of having your score
affected by a reader's mistakes in recording your answers. However,
each person's accommodation decision is an individual one of course.
If you decide to use a reader rather than Braille to complete the
test, I would suggest doing all your practice and studying with
readers rather than with Braille, so you can get used to answering
questions and processing the information in this way.
Best,
Arielle

On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> I might need this if I try grad school. Also, how long will the test take
> when you get extended time? What subjects are tested?
> How can you mark your answers? I'd opt for braille if they can provide it in
>
> braille. But you cannot mark in a braille test.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Reinhard Stebner
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:31 AM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
> Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>
> Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the GRE and
> could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test administration was
> done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you use
> assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank you for
> your help.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Sat May 26 15:48:08 2012
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 08:48:08 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOtkqG5GM=sbV0u1Vdz2StXZQG4Tp-0jXz39jJxNE+KYPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO83KOtkqG5GM=sbV0u1Vdz2StXZQG4Tp-0jXz39jJxNE+KYPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67D23DABA8A0402B938BDA2C4C44FCBC@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
attached you'll find the full who knows how many page document talking about 
every single thing that's going on.
HOW DO YOU CHOOSE WHAT TO GO TO? EEEKKK!!! LOL
I think there is a NABs meeting Sunday night.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 8:36 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda

I went to the Website, and all I found was a vague schedule.
What time will the NABS meeting be?
Thanks, Joshua

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com 
-------------- next part --------------
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From kea.anderson at gmail.com  Sat May 26 15:51:21 2012
From: kea.anderson at gmail.com (Karen Anderson)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 10:51:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention Agenda
Message-ID: <CAJtKodL1hM=p985S9Ku77uOX6DA_js_P7S700aD6X-iXN4Bc0A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

The agenda is, in fact, up on the website. Go to www.nfb.org, look for
upcoming events and then the link for our national convention. Go to
that convention page and there is a heading that says "agenda." The
download link says "2012 convention agenda word." You can also go to
www.nfb.org/national-convention.

The NABS meeting this year will be Sunday, July 1, from 7:00-10:00.
Registration will start at 6:15. The student open house this year will
be Saturday night, and we hope to see many of you there!

Hope all of this helps.

Karen Anderson
First Vice President, National Association of Blind Students


From tinadt at sbcglobal.net  Sat May 26 16:26:57 2012
From: tinadt at sbcglobal.net (Tina Thomas)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 09:26:57 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOsnr9vEA77_bPHGV7BGxw0X=6Vv9x2G-eco=Ppe+nNBCw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4FC0E256.9080109@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOsnr9vEA77_bPHGV7BGxw0X=6Vv9x2G-eco=Ppe+nNBCw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00a601cd3b5c$5f472320$1dd56960$@net>

First of all, had you been listening to the monthly presidential release and
or reading your Braille Monitor you would have known to check the NFB
website for all convention activities. So instead of making assumptions and
accusations check your facts before writing and sending a message that makes
you look foolish. Now Josh I'm not picking on you, but in recent years, I've
notice that with this younger generation of students we have become  a
little softer and more politically  correct as well as tolerant of behaviors
that are inappropriate and intolerable  because we're afraid to hurt
someone's feelings. Well let me just tell you when I started in the
student's division many moons ago as well as going to a NFB center we got
our feet put to the fire and at the time, we thought our mentors were being
mean and harsh but looking back on all of those experiences now, I'm
grateful that they cared enough to teach us  self respect,  responsibility
and accountability.  I think that NABS should provide   mentoring to those
students who are new to the federation and NABS and since I brought it up,
I'm willing to spend time with a student who wants to learn about our
philosophy as well as what having well adjusted blindness skills can do to
further self concept and confidence. I think that this is one area that NABS
has been lacking in recent years, and as an older student who is now a TVI,
I think it would be in  NABS best interest to seek out some of the older
students and have us buddy up with a young student and provide them with the
knowledge that was given to us by our mentors who were and are still
federationists. 
Regards, 
Tina                         
     

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 7:17 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions

What?
You got the agenda, before everyone else?
Please send it to me, off list!
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/26/12, Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey guys!
> So you know how we were talking about the GPS app for the iPhone from 
> Sendero being a possibility? Well, I looked at the Agenda for 
> convention, and look!!! This is an item for one of the General 
> sessions. :)
>
> "THE SEEINGEYE APP: GPS FOR THE BLIND ON THE iPHONE
>
> Mike May, Chief Executive Officer, Sendero Group; Davis, California"
> I can't wait!! Our convention is so exciting this year!
> Anyways, just wanted to let you know.
> Jordyn
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
> ents.pccua.edu
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tinadt%40sbcglobal.net



From mistydbradley at gmail.com  Sat May 26 16:29:14 2012
From: mistydbradley at gmail.com (Misty Dawn Bradley)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 12:29:14 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com><015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCp9sqjEZg=p=XWfZcMAORRQ8hST170rtbAPzDx6C3pSw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7CF97A78BE094B019C0B3983F0B3B208@acerd37f251f21>

Hi Arielle,
So for the self-voicing test, how is the math section done, especially if 
there are graphics? Are they described within the self-voiced test? I just 
thought that I would ask, because if one does not have access to the 
graphics that a sighted person would have access to, then it may affect 
one's score on the test. I like the idea of the computerized, self-voiced 
test.
Thanks,

Misty
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE


> Hi all,
> I took the GRE way back in 2007 and many things have changed since
> then. For the most up-to-date information, I suggest contacting Ruth
> Loew, assistant director of disability policy at ETS, at
> rloew at ets.org
> She has been involved with NABS for a long time and is very interested
> in helping blind students navigate the accommodations system.
> I do know that you can get Braille prep materials for the verbal and
> math sections. You can choose to take the test using Braille, large
> print or through a reader. There was an accessible "self-voicing"
> version of the computer test that can be taken independently via
> computer, but I believe that since the test changed recently, we are
> still waiting for the new self-voicing version to be finalized and
> made available to test-takers.
> If using Braille, I believe the only way to mark your answers is with
> a reader, at least until the self-voicing test is ready. You are
> allowed to use a Perkins Brailler to write the essays for the writing
> section and to do scratchwork for the math section, but you will
> eventually need to dictate your Brailled essay to the reader.
> One disadvantage of the Braille test is that it is the "paper-based"
> test, while the reader-administered and self-voicing versions are the
> "computer-based" test. Nowadays most of your sighted peers applying to
> grad school will be taking the computer test, and also the computer
> test is scored instantly, whereas the paper test takes a while to be
> graded. However, there are obvious advantages to using Braille if you
> are a Braille reader. I personally think the self-voicing test is the
> best option, when it becomes available, as a blind test-taker can
> complete it independently and there is no risk of having your score
> affected by a reader's mistakes in recording your answers. However,
> each person's accommodation decision is an individual one of course.
> If you decide to use a reader rather than Braille to complete the
> test, I would suggest doing all your practice and studying with
> readers rather than with Braille, so you can get used to answering
> questions and processing the information in this way.
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I might need this if I try grad school. Also, how long will the test take
>> when you get extended time? What subjects are tested?
>> How can you mark your answers? I'd opt for braille if they can provide it 
>> in
>>
>> braille. But you cannot mark in a braille test.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Reinhard Stebner
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:31 AM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>
>> Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the GRE 
>> and
>> could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test administration 
>> was
>> done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you use
>> assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank you 
>> for
>> your help.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com 



From tinadt at sbcglobal.net  Sat May 26 17:01:36 2012
From: tinadt at sbcglobal.net (Tina Thomas)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 10:01:36 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOtkqG5GM=sbV0u1Vdz2StXZQG4Tp-0jXz39jJxNE+KYPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO83KOtkqG5GM=sbV0u1Vdz2StXZQG4Tp-0jXz39jJxNE+KYPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00ba01cd3b61$4f28e8c0$ed7aba40$@net>

Yeah the convention agenda is on the nfb website. click on convention agenda
now available. Never mind, looks like someone has already posted it to the
list so now all you have to do is click on the attachment. 
Tina   

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 8:37 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda

I went to the Website, and all I found was a vague schedule.
What time will the NABS meeting be?
Thanks, Joshua

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tinadt%40sbcglobal.net



From jordyn2493 at gmail.com  Sat May 26 17:23:30 2012
From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 13:23:30 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
In-Reply-To: <67D23DABA8A0402B938BDA2C4C44FCBC@BrandonsLaptop2>
References: <CAO83KOtkqG5GM=sbV0u1Vdz2StXZQG4Tp-0jXz39jJxNE+KYPw@mail.gmail.com>
	<67D23DABA8A0402B938BDA2C4C44FCBC@BrandonsLaptop2>
Message-ID: <4FC11192.2010301@gmail.com>

Hey Brandon,
I usually just look over the agenda and make a schedule of the week of 
events I really want to attend. You can also "session hop" and go to 
bits and pieces of each one you want to attend if times clash with each 
other or something. I agree though, there are so many interesting 
sessions! :)
Jordyn
On 5/26/2012 11:48 AM, Brandon Keith Biggs wrote:
> Hello,
> attached you'll find the full who knows how many page document talking 
> about every single thing that's going on.
> HOW DO YOU CHOOSE WHAT TO GO TO? EEEKKK!!! LOL
> I think there is a NABs meeting Sunday night.
> Thanks,
>
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message----- From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 8:36 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
>
> I went to the Website, and all I found was a vague schedule.
> What time will the NABS meeting be?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com 
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Sat May 26 21:33:06 2012
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 14:33:06 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <7CF97A78BE094B019C0B3983F0B3B208@acerd37f251f21>
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com>
	<015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCp9sqjEZg=p=XWfZcMAORRQ8hST170rtbAPzDx6C3pSw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CF97A78BE094B019C0B3983F0B3B208@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <CACUFQdzT+7QoHTfhvZWYwd+oJXF+iDDFqx9M=axADcBWBHdNLg@mail.gmail.com>

Arielle did a great job outlining the the GRE. It is unfortunate if
the self-voiced test is not ready, because the new GRE has been out
for a year. In any case, I would say that waiting for it if you can
would be worth it for the advantages like an instant score. You would
get a braille or large print supplement with the self-voiced test. It
would contain all of the questions. It is a hard copy duplicate of the
computer test. All of the math graphics are in the supplement and very
well done. There are descriptions in the self-voiced test, but you can
imagine that being able to touch raised graphics is much more quickly
understandable.

I think you can ask for 1.5 or double time. So, with double time, you
would get a little over 6 hours to take the test, and you can use the
6 hours however you want. With normal time, you would receive about 30
minutes per section, but with double time, you don't have to allot
double the time of each section and then start over. What I am trying
to say is that theoretically, you could use more than double time on
the math part if you needed it and if you could get through the verbal
and writing in less than double those time limits. I read braille very
well and comprehend things very easily and found that I was not rushed
and did not need all of the double time given to me, so I wouldn't
worry too much about whether it is enough unless you have other
circumstances.

If you do take the self-voiced test, ETS will send you a practice one.
You can go through tutorials before beginning the test which will not
use your test time, but I recommend knowing the keystrokes beforehand.

Once I got the accommidations process started, they were approved
quickly, but it is advisable to start a few months early. I had to
have a signed letter from an eye doctor and another letter from the
disabilities office at my school. ETS has to communicate with your
testing center of choice to see if they have the right equipment, a
computer with the right specs, so you need to allow for the time for
these communications to take place.

I bought some used Kaplan books and got a reader to help me with math
review. Be sure you get practice materials that reflect the content of
the new test.

One thing worth mentioning is that when I came in to take the test, I
brought headphones with me. My testing center was very hesitant, and
they wouldn't let me use them until they called ETS. ETS did allow me
to use headphones, but the testing center gave me a pair of theirs.
So, if you think you might want to use headphones, I would write it in
somewhere on your accommidations application and make sure ETS is ok
with it and that your testing center has a pair that you can use. It
wasn't that big of a deal, but on test day, you will probably feel
stressed and pressured and any little mishaps can seem like bigger
deals than they are. So take care of those things beforehand.

I will reiterate what Arielle said. The ETS disability office was very
helpful, and Ruth is easily accessible and can answer your questions.

Cindy

On 5/26/12, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Arielle,
> So for the self-voicing test, how is the math section done, especially if
> there are graphics? Are they described within the self-voiced test? I just
> thought that I would ask, because if one does not have access to the
> graphics that a sighted person would have access to, then it may affect
> one's score on the test. I like the idea of the computerized, self-voiced
> test.
> Thanks,
>
> Misty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>
>
>> Hi all,
>> I took the GRE way back in 2007 and many things have changed since
>> then. For the most up-to-date information, I suggest contacting Ruth
>> Loew, assistant director of disability policy at ETS, at
>> rloew at ets.org
>> She has been involved with NABS for a long time and is very interested
>> in helping blind students navigate the accommodations system.
>> I do know that you can get Braille prep materials for the verbal and
>> math sections. You can choose to take the test using Braille, large
>> print or through a reader. There was an accessible "self-voicing"
>> version of the computer test that can be taken independently via
>> computer, but I believe that since the test changed recently, we are
>> still waiting for the new self-voicing version to be finalized and
>> made available to test-takers.
>> If using Braille, I believe the only way to mark your answers is with
>> a reader, at least until the self-voicing test is ready. You are
>> allowed to use a Perkins Brailler to write the essays for the writing
>> section and to do scratchwork for the math section, but you will
>> eventually need to dictate your Brailled essay to the reader.
>> One disadvantage of the Braille test is that it is the "paper-based"
>> test, while the reader-administered and self-voicing versions are the
>> "computer-based" test. Nowadays most of your sighted peers applying to
>> grad school will be taking the computer test, and also the computer
>> test is scored instantly, whereas the paper test takes a while to be
>> graded. However, there are obvious advantages to using Braille if you
>> are a Braille reader. I personally think the self-voicing test is the
>> best option, when it becomes available, as a blind test-taker can
>> complete it independently and there is no risk of having your score
>> affected by a reader's mistakes in recording your answers. However,
>> each person's accommodation decision is an individual one of course.
>> If you decide to use a reader rather than Braille to complete the
>> test, I would suggest doing all your practice and studying with
>> readers rather than with Braille, so you can get used to answering
>> questions and processing the information in this way.
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I might need this if I try grad school. Also, how long will the test
>>> take
>>> when you get extended time? What subjects are tested?
>>> How can you mark your answers? I'd opt for braille if they can provide it
>>>
>>> in
>>>
>>> braille. But you cannot mark in a braille test.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Reinhard Stebner
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:31 AM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>
>>> Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the GRE
>>> and
>>> could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test administration
>>> was
>>> done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you use
>>> assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank you
>>> for
>>> your help.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cynthia Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383


From raydar11011 at yahoo.com  Sat May 26 21:57:32 2012
From: raydar11011 at yahoo.com (Reinhard Stebner)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 17:57:32 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <7CF97A78BE094B019C0B3983F0B3B208@acerd37f251f21>
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com><015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC>	<CALAYQJCp9sqjEZg=p=XWfZcMAORRQ8hST170rtbAPzDx6C3pSw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CF97A78BE094B019C0B3983F0B3B208@acerd37f251f21>
Message-ID: <074d01cd3b8a$8d26d370$a7747a50$@yahoo.com>

Thank you for the below answers and I will contact the individual who you
had pointed out to me.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Misty Dawn Bradley
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 12:29 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE

Hi Arielle,
So for the self-voicing test, how is the math section done, especially if 
there are graphics? Are they described within the self-voiced test? I just 
thought that I would ask, because if one does not have access to the 
graphics that a sighted person would have access to, then it may affect 
one's score on the test. I like the idea of the computerized, self-voiced 
test.
Thanks,

Misty
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE


> Hi all,
> I took the GRE way back in 2007 and many things have changed since
> then. For the most up-to-date information, I suggest contacting Ruth
> Loew, assistant director of disability policy at ETS, at
> rloew at ets.org
> She has been involved with NABS for a long time and is very interested
> in helping blind students navigate the accommodations system.
> I do know that you can get Braille prep materials for the verbal and
> math sections. You can choose to take the test using Braille, large
> print or through a reader. There was an accessible "self-voicing"
> version of the computer test that can be taken independently via
> computer, but I believe that since the test changed recently, we are
> still waiting for the new self-voicing version to be finalized and
> made available to test-takers.
> If using Braille, I believe the only way to mark your answers is with
> a reader, at least until the self-voicing test is ready. You are
> allowed to use a Perkins Brailler to write the essays for the writing
> section and to do scratchwork for the math section, but you will
> eventually need to dictate your Brailled essay to the reader.
> One disadvantage of the Braille test is that it is the "paper-based"
> test, while the reader-administered and self-voicing versions are the
> "computer-based" test. Nowadays most of your sighted peers applying to
> grad school will be taking the computer test, and also the computer
> test is scored instantly, whereas the paper test takes a while to be
> graded. However, there are obvious advantages to using Braille if you
> are a Braille reader. I personally think the self-voicing test is the
> best option, when it becomes available, as a blind test-taker can
> complete it independently and there is no risk of having your score
> affected by a reader's mistakes in recording your answers. However,
> each person's accommodation decision is an individual one of course.
> If you decide to use a reader rather than Braille to complete the
> test, I would suggest doing all your practice and studying with
> readers rather than with Braille, so you can get used to answering
> questions and processing the information in this way.
> Best,
> Arielle
>
> On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I might need this if I try grad school. Also, how long will the test take
>> when you get extended time? What subjects are tested?
>> How can you mark your answers? I'd opt for braille if they can provide it

>> in
>>
>> braille. But you cannot mark in a braille test.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Reinhard Stebner
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:31 AM
>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>> Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>
>> Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the GRE 
>> and
>> could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test administration 
>> was
>> done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you use
>> assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank you 
>> for
>> your help.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m 


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raydar11011%40yahoo.com



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun May 27 00:25:56 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 20:25:56 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
Message-ID: <4fc174ab.04cae00a.276b.5644@mx.google.com>

 Brandon,

Just to let you know, what you have attached is your convention 
preregistration information, not the agenda.  The agenda, by the 
way, is available on the home page at www.nfb.org under the 
Upcoming Events heading.  I downloaded it today.

Thanks,

Chris

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Sat, 26 May 2012 08:48:08 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention agenda

Hello,
attached you'll find the full who knows how many page document 
talking about
every single thing that's going on.
HOW DO YOU CHOOSE WHAT TO GO TO? EEEKKK!!! LOL
I think there is a NABs meeting Sunday night.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 8:36 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda

I went to the Website, and all I found was a vague schedule.
What time will the NABS meeting be?
Thanks, Joshua

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
iggs%40gmail.com

-------------- next part --------------
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From chelseap08 at gmail.com  Sun May 27 00:52:14 2012
From: chelseap08 at gmail.com (Chelsea Page)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 19:52:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
In-Reply-To: <4fc174ab.04cae00a.276b.5644@mx.google.com>
References: <4fc174ab.04cae00a.276b.5644@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <86335342-6FBA-49CD-9524-6E68710E18A6@gmail.com>

Can someone tell me how i might possibly save it on my iPhone?
Thanks

Sent from my iPhone

On May 26, 2012, at 7:25 PM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> Brandon,
> 
> Just to let you know, what you have attached is your convention preregistration information, not the agenda.  The agenda, by the way, is available on the home page at www.nfb.org under the Upcoming Events heading.  I downloaded it today.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chris
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
> 2 Corinthians 5:7
> 
> Sent from my BrailleNote
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> sent: Sat, 26 May 2012 08:48:08 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
> 
> Hello,
> attached you'll find the full who knows how many page document talking about
> every single thing that's going on.
> HOW DO YOU CHOOSE WHAT TO GO TO? EEEKKK!!! LOL
> I think there is a NABs meeting Sunday night.
> Thanks,
> 
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 8:36 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
> 
> I went to the Website, and all I found was a vague schedule.
> What time will the NABS meeting be?
> Thanks, Joshua
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
> iggs%40gmail.com
> 
> <2012 NFB Convention Preregistration.doc>
> <attachment>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmail.com


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun May 27 00:58:47 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 18:58:47 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
In-Reply-To: <00a601cd3b5c$5f472320$1dd56960$@net>
References: <4FC0E256.9080109@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOsnr9vEA77_bPHGV7BGxw0X=6Vv9x2G-eco=Ppe+nNBCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<00a601cd3b5c$5f472320$1dd56960$@net>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDVB7Ep=BLanma0Wi0U0XzTB6C445BeYnK_1+QLkVQ1wQ@mail.gmail.com>

Just to be fair to Joshua, Dave Andrews usually does email out the
agenda every year. So Joshua was correct when he said he was expecting
to get an email with it. However, Dave usually doesn't send it out
until the first week of June. As others have pointed out, you can get
it before Dave sends it out by going to the NFB website. However, I
didn't know that it was up yet, either, until Karen mentioned it this
morning. I've been around the NFB a long time, and in fact used to be
your president, and I listen to the presidential releases, but I
didn't know exactly when the agenda goes up on the website. So let's
not jump on one of our fellow listers or start talking about
"inappropriate behavior" just because he made an honest mistake.
Arielle

On 5/26/12, Tina Thomas <tinadt at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> First of all, had you been listening to the monthly presidential release
> and
> or reading your Braille Monitor you would have known to check the NFB
> website for all convention activities. So instead of making assumptions and
> accusations check your facts before writing and sending a message that
> makes
> you look foolish. Now Josh I'm not picking on you, but in recent years,
> I've
> notice that with this younger generation of students we have become  a
> little softer and more politically  correct as well as tolerant of
> behaviors
> that are inappropriate and intolerable  because we're afraid to hurt
> someone's feelings. Well let me just tell you when I started in the
> student's division many moons ago as well as going to a NFB center we got
> our feet put to the fire and at the time, we thought our mentors were being
> mean and harsh but looking back on all of those experiences now, I'm
> grateful that they cared enough to teach us  self respect,  responsibility
> and accountability.  I think that NABS should provide   mentoring to those
> students who are new to the federation and NABS and since I brought it up,
> I'm willing to spend time with a student who wants to learn about our
> philosophy as well as what having well adjusted blindness skills can do to
> further self concept and confidence. I think that this is one area that
> NABS
> has been lacking in recent years, and as an older student who is now a TVI,
> I think it would be in  NABS best interest to seek out some of the older
> students and have us buddy up with a young student and provide them with
> the
> knowledge that was given to us by our mentors who were and are still
> federationists.
> Regards,
> Tina
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Joshua Lester
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 7:17 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
>
> What?
> You got the agenda, before everyone else?
> Please send it to me, off list!
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/26/12, Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey guys!
>> So you know how we were talking about the GPS app for the iPhone from
>> Sendero being a possibility? Well, I looked at the Agenda for
>> convention, and look!!! This is an item for one of the General
>> sessions. :)
>>
>> "THE SEEINGEYE APP: GPS FOR THE BLIND ON THE iPHONE
>>
>> Mike May, Chief Executive Officer, Sendero Group; Davis, California"
>> I can't wait!! Our convention is so exciting this year!
>> Anyways, just wanted to let you know.
>> Jordyn
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
>> ents.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tinadt%40sbcglobal.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Sun May 27 02:00:26 2012
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 20:00:26 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
In-Reply-To: <86335342-6FBA-49CD-9524-6E68710E18A6@gmail.com>
References: <4fc174ab.04cae00a.276b.5644@mx.google.com>
	<86335342-6FBA-49CD-9524-6E68710E18A6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D741CE63-7018-4567-914D-4D321DAE9875@gmail.com>

It looks really silly if you try and read it on the iPhone, that's all I know. :-)

Sent from my iPhone

On May 26, 2012, at 6:52 PM, Chelsea Page <chelseap08 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can someone tell me how i might possibly save it on my iPhone?
> Thanks
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On May 26, 2012, at 7:25 PM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Brandon,
>> 
>> Just to let you know, what you have attached is your convention preregistration information, not the agenda.  The agenda, by the way, is available on the home page at www.nfb.org under the Upcoming Events heading.  I downloaded it today.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
>> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>> 
>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> sent: Sat, 26 May 2012 08:48:08 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
>> 
>> Hello,
>> attached you'll find the full who knows how many page document talking about
>> every single thing that's going on.
>> HOW DO YOU CHOOSE WHAT TO GO TO? EEEKKK!!! LOL
>> I think there is a NABs meeting Sunday night.
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 8:36 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
>> 
>> I went to the Website, and all I found was a vague schedule.
>> What time will the NABS meeting be?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
>> iggs%40gmail.com
>> 
>> <2012 NFB Convention Preregistration.doc>
>> <attachment>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun May 27 02:03:00 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 22:03:00 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
Message-ID: <4fc18b6a.4a64e00a.31b5.5a49@mx.google.com>

I saw that! Awesome!!

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com
To: NabsLink <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Sat, 26 May 2012 10:01:58 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions

Hey guys!
So you know how we were talking about the GPS app for the iPhone 
from
Sendero being a possibility? Well, I looked at the Agenda for
convention, and look!!! This is an item for one of the General 
sessions.  :)

"THE SEEINGEYE APP: GPS FOR THE BLIND ON THE iPHONE

Mike May, Chief Executive Officer, Sendero Group; Davis, 
California"
I can't wait!! Our convention is so exciting this year!
Anyways, just wanted to let you know.
Jordyn

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
m%40gmail.com


From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Sun May 27 03:46:02 2012
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 20:46:02 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
In-Reply-To: <4fc174ab.04cae00a.276b.5644@mx.google.com>
References: <4fc174ab.04cae00a.276b.5644@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <E7EC29A325F646C4A7BF1FF34B312349@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
OMW I'm sorry, here it is!




Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Chris Nusbaum
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 5:25 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention agenda

Brandon,

Just to let you know, what you have attached is your convention
preregistration information, not the agenda.  The agenda, by the
way, is available on the home page at www.nfb.org under the
Upcoming Events heading.  I downloaded it today.

Thanks,

Chris

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
sent: Sat, 26 May 2012 08:48:08 -0700
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention agenda

Hello,
attached you'll find the full who knows how many page document
talking about
every single thing that's going on.
HOW DO YOU CHOOSE WHAT TO GO TO? EEEKKK!!! LOL
I think there is a NABs meeting Sunday night.
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message-----
From: Joshua Lester
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 8:36 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda

I went to the Website, and all I found was a vague schedule.
What time will the NABS meeting be?
Thanks, Joshua

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
iggs%40gmail.com







_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: convention-agenda-2012-web.doc
Type: application/msword
Size: 2847744 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://nfbnet.org/pipermail/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/attachments/20120526/2cfb2bb7/attachment.doc>

From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun May 27 03:49:21 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 23:49:21 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
In-Reply-To: <D741CE63-7018-4567-914D-4D321DAE9875@gmail.com>
References: <4fc174ab.04cae00a.276b.5644@mx.google.com>	<86335342-6FBA-49CD-9524-6E68710E18A6@gmail.com>
	<D741CE63-7018-4567-914D-4D321DAE9875@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002101cd3bbb$b3ea1cc0$1bbe5640$@gmail.com>

That's probably because the agenda is a Microsoft Word document.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Kirt
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:00 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention agenda

It looks really silly if you try and read it on the iPhone, that's all I
know. :-)

Sent from my iPhone

On May 26, 2012, at 6:52 PM, Chelsea Page <chelseap08 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Can someone tell me how i might possibly save it on my iPhone?
> Thanks
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On May 26, 2012, at 7:25 PM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
wrote:
> 
>> Brandon,
>> 
>> Just to let you know, what you have attached is your convention
preregistration information, not the agenda.  The agenda, by the way, is
available on the home page at www.nfb.org under the Upcoming Events heading.
I downloaded it today.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
>> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>> 
>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> sent: Sat, 26 May 2012 08:48:08 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
>> 
>> Hello,
>> attached you'll find the full who knows how many page document 
>> talking about every single thing that's going on.
>> HOW DO YOU CHOOSE WHAT TO GO TO? EEEKKK!!! LOL I think there is a 
>> NABs meeting Sunday night.
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 8:36 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
>> 
>> I went to the Website, and all I found was a vague schedule.
>> What time will the NABS meeting be?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
>> iggs%40gmail.com
>> 
>> <2012 NFB Convention Preregistration.doc> <attachment> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmai
>> l.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g
> mail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
om



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun May 27 03:52:43 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 23:52:43 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJDVB7Ep=BLanma0Wi0U0XzTB6C445BeYnK_1+QLkVQ1wQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4FC0E256.9080109@gmail.com>	<CAO83KOsnr9vEA77_bPHGV7BGxw0X=6Vv9x2G-eco=Ppe+nNBCw@mail.gmail.com>	<00a601cd3b5c$5f472320$1dd56960$@net>
	<CALAYQJDVB7Ep=BLanma0Wi0U0XzTB6C445BeYnK_1+QLkVQ1wQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002201cd3bbc$2c3fedd0$84bfc970$@gmail.com>

I agree, Arielle. I didn't know the agenda was up there until I checked the
NFB Web site to read what was going on (as I sometimes do, just to get a
quick update on NFB news) and saw a link to the agenda.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Arielle Silverman
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 8:59 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions

Just to be fair to Joshua, Dave Andrews usually does email out the agenda
every year. So Joshua was correct when he said he was expecting to get an
email with it. However, Dave usually doesn't send it out until the first
week of June. As others have pointed out, you can get it before Dave sends
it out by going to the NFB website. However, I didn't know that it was up
yet, either, until Karen mentioned it this morning. I've been around the NFB
a long time, and in fact used to be your president, and I listen to the
presidential releases, but I didn't know exactly when the agenda goes up on
the website. So let's not jump on one of our fellow listers or start talking
about "inappropriate behavior" just because he made an honest mistake.
Arielle

On 5/26/12, Tina Thomas <tinadt at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> First of all, had you been listening to the monthly presidential 
> release and or reading your Braille Monitor you would have known to 
> check the NFB website for all convention activities. So instead of 
> making assumptions and accusations check your facts before writing and 
> sending a message that makes you look foolish. Now Josh I'm not 
> picking on you, but in recent years, I've notice that with this 
> younger generation of students we have become  a little softer and 
> more politically  correct as well as tolerant of behaviors that are 
> inappropriate and intolerable  because we're afraid to hurt someone's 
> feelings. Well let me just tell you when I started in the student's 
> division many moons ago as well as going to a NFB center we got our 
> feet put to the fire and at the time, we thought our mentors were 
> being mean and harsh but looking back on all of those experiences now, 
> I'm grateful that they cared enough to teach us  self respect,
responsibility
> and accountability.  I think that NABS should provide   mentoring to those
> students who are new to the federation and NABS and since I brought it 
> up, I'm willing to spend time with a student who wants to learn about 
> our philosophy as well as what having well adjusted blindness skills 
> can do to further self concept and confidence. I think that this is 
> one area that NABS has been lacking in recent years, and as an older 
> student who is now a TVI, I think it would be in  NABS best interest 
> to seek out some of the older students and have us buddy up with a 
> young student and provide them with the knowledge that was given to us 
> by our mentors who were and are still federationists.
> Regards,
> Tina
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Joshua Lester
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 7:17 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
>
> What?
> You got the agenda, before everyone else?
> Please send it to me, off list!
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/26/12, Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hey guys!
>> So you know how we were talking about the GPS app for the iPhone from 
>> Sendero being a possibility? Well, I looked at the Agenda for 
>> convention, and look!!! This is an item for one of the General 
>> sessions. :)
>>
>> "THE SEEINGEYE APP: GPS FOR THE BLIND ON THE iPHONE
>>
>> Mike May, Chief Executive Officer, Sendero Group; Davis, California"
>> I can't wait!! Our convention is so exciting this year!
>> Anyways, just wanted to let you know.
>> Jordyn
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stu
>> d
>> ents.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tinadt%40sbcglobal
> .net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.
> com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
om



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun May 27 03:55:10 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 23:55:10 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
In-Reply-To: <86335342-6FBA-49CD-9524-6E68710E18A6@gmail.com>
References: <4fc174ab.04cae00a.276b.5644@mx.google.com>
	<86335342-6FBA-49CD-9524-6E68710E18A6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002301cd3bbc$84518d80$8cf4a880$@gmail.com>

Chelsea,

Hmm... well, the convention agenda, if you download it from the NFB Web site
is in DOC (Microsoft Word) format, which, if I'm not mistaken, iPhones can't
open because they're made by Apple. So, if you need it in another format,
such as TXT or RTF in order for you to access it on your iPhone, please let
me know and I can convert it for you.

Thanks,

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Chelsea Page
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 8:52 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention agenda

Can someone tell me how i might possibly save it on my iPhone?
Thanks

Sent from my iPhone

On May 26, 2012, at 7:25 PM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> Brandon,
> 
> Just to let you know, what you have attached is your convention
preregistration information, not the agenda.  The agenda, by the way, is
available on the home page at www.nfb.org under the Upcoming Events heading.
I downloaded it today.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chris
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
> 2 Corinthians 5:7
> 
> Sent from my BrailleNote
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> sent: Sat, 26 May 2012 08:48:08 -0700
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
> 
> Hello,
> attached you'll find the full who knows how many page document talking 
> about every single thing that's going on.
> HOW DO YOU CHOOSE WHAT TO GO TO? EEEKKK!!! LOL I think there is a NABs 
> meeting Sunday night.
> Thanks,
> 
> Brandon Keith Biggs
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua Lester
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 8:36 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
> 
> I went to the Website, and all I found was a vague schedule.
> What time will the NABS meeting be?
> Thanks, Joshua
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun May 27 04:20:03 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 00:20:03 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <CACUFQdzT+7QoHTfhvZWYwd+oJXF+iDDFqx9M=axADcBWBHdNLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com><015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC><CALAYQJCp9sqjEZg=p=XWfZcMAORRQ8hST170rtbAPzDx6C3pSw@mail.gmail.com><7CF97A78BE094B019C0B3983F0B3B208@acerd37f251f21>
	<CACUFQdzT+7QoHTfhvZWYwd+oJXF+iDDFqx9M=axADcBWBHdNLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <11C5DE20CFEB46DAB1D02F68CC8231A5@OwnerPC>

Hi,
So you all are saying the self voicing test is via computer; I assume then 
it is read to you through synthesized speech of some kind.
Maybe someone will clarify if it is currently in that format. Anyone here 
taken the GRE in the past year?

Other choices are braille and large print formats. I marked my answers 
through a reader for other braille standardized tests such as the SAT, so I 
would guess that using a reader for answers is the way it is now.
Six hours is double time; sounds like an involved test.
Is there reading comprehension involved? Also, is it
mostly multiple choice? If not, what format?


You all distinguish between paper and pencil test versus computer test.
Does this mean the tests are actually different questions? I thought the 
only difference was that one was on the pc in a soft copy format and had a 
different order of questions than the paper based test.

I can see the advantage of doing it with a reader and computer. Two of them 
are it is scored instantly and
may take less time.
But I also think there would be advantages with braille such as actually 
reading the sections yourself and taking time to analyze it to answer 
questions.

Thanks.
Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Cynthia Bennett
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 5:33 PM
To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE

Arielle did a great job outlining the the GRE. It is unfortunate if
the self-voiced test is not ready, because the new GRE has been out
for a year. In any case, I would say that waiting for it if you can
would be worth it for the advantages like an instant score. You would
get a braille or large print supplement with the self-voiced test. It
would contain all of the questions. It is a hard copy duplicate of the
computer test. All of the math graphics are in the supplement and very
well done. There are descriptions in the self-voiced test, but you can
imagine that being able to touch raised graphics is much more quickly
understandable.

I think you can ask for 1.5 or double time. So, with double time, you
would get a little over 6 hours to take the test, and you can use the
6 hours however you want. With normal time, you would receive about 30
minutes per section, but with double time, you don't have to allot
double the time of each section and then start over. What I am trying
to say is that theoretically, you could use more than double time on
the math part if you needed it and if you could get through the verbal
and writing in less than double those time limits. I read braille very
well and comprehend things very easily and found that I was not rushed
and did not need all of the double time given to me, so I wouldn't
worry too much about whether it is enough unless you have other
circumstances.

If you do take the self-voiced test, ETS will send you a practice one.
You can go through tutorials before beginning the test which will not
use your test time, but I recommend knowing the keystrokes beforehand.

Once I got the accommidations process started, they were approved
quickly, but it is advisable to start a few months early. I had to
have a signed letter from an eye doctor and another letter from the
disabilities office at my school. ETS has to communicate with your
testing center of choice to see if they have the right equipment, a
computer with the right specs, so you need to allow for the time for
these communications to take place.

I bought some used Kaplan books and got a reader to help me with math
review. Be sure you get practice materials that reflect the content of
the new test.

One thing worth mentioning is that when I came in to take the test, I
brought headphones with me. My testing center was very hesitant, and
they wouldn't let me use them until they called ETS. ETS did allow me
to use headphones, but the testing center gave me a pair of theirs.
So, if you think you might want to use headphones, I would write it in
somewhere on your accommidations application and make sure ETS is ok
with it and that your testing center has a pair that you can use. It
wasn't that big of a deal, but on test day, you will probably feel
stressed and pressured and any little mishaps can seem like bigger
deals than they are. So take care of those things beforehand.

I will reiterate what Arielle said. The ETS disability office was very
helpful, and Ruth is easily accessible and can answer your questions.

Cindy

On 5/26/12, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Arielle,
> So for the self-voicing test, how is the math section done, especially if
> there are graphics? Are they described within the self-voiced test? I just
> thought that I would ask, because if one does not have access to the
> graphics that a sighted person would have access to, then it may affect
> one's score on the test. I like the idea of the computerized, self-voiced
> test.
> Thanks,
>
> Misty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>
>
>> Hi all,
>> I took the GRE way back in 2007 and many things have changed since
>> then. For the most up-to-date information, I suggest contacting Ruth
>> Loew, assistant director of disability policy at ETS, at
>> rloew at ets.org
>> She has been involved with NABS for a long time and is very interested
>> in helping blind students navigate the accommodations system.
>> I do know that you can get Braille prep materials for the verbal and
>> math sections. You can choose to take the test using Braille, large
>> print or through a reader. There was an accessible "self-voicing"
>> version of the computer test that can be taken independently via
>> computer, but I believe that since the test changed recently, we are
>> still waiting for the new self-voicing version to be finalized and
>> made available to test-takers.
>> If using Braille, I believe the only way to mark your answers is with
>> a reader, at least until the self-voicing test is ready. You are
>> allowed to use a Perkins Brailler to write the essays for the writing
>> section and to do scratchwork for the math section, but you will
>> eventually need to dictate your Brailled essay to the reader.
>> One disadvantage of the Braille test is that it is the "paper-based"
>> test, while the reader-administered and self-voicing versions are the
>> "computer-based" test. Nowadays most of your sighted peers applying to
>> grad school will be taking the computer test, and also the computer
>> test is scored instantly, whereas the paper test takes a while to be
>> graded. However, there are obvious advantages to using Braille if you
>> are a Braille reader. I personally think the self-voicing test is the
>> best option, when it becomes available, as a blind test-taker can
>> complete it independently and there is no risk of having your score
>> affected by a reader's mistakes in recording your answers. However,
>> each person's accommodation decision is an individual one of course.
>> If you decide to use a reader rather than Braille to complete the
>> test, I would suggest doing all your practice and studying with
>> readers rather than with Braille, so you can get used to answering
>> questions and processing the information in this way.
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I might need this if I try grad school. Also, how long will the test
>>> take
>>> when you get extended time? What subjects are tested?
>>> How can you mark your answers? I'd opt for braille if they can provide 
>>> it
>>>
>>> in
>>>
>>> braille. But you cannot mark in a braille test.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Reinhard Stebner
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:31 AM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>
>>> Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the GRE
>>> and
>>> could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test administration
>>> was
>>> done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you use
>>> assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank you
>>> for
>>> your help.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cynthia Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun May 27 04:24:01 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 00:24:01 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <CACUFQdzT+7QoHTfhvZWYwd+oJXF+iDDFqx9M=axADcBWBHdNLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com><015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC><CALAYQJCp9sqjEZg=p=XWfZcMAORRQ8hST170rtbAPzDx6C3pSw@mail.gmail.com><7CF97A78BE094B019C0B3983F0B3B208@acerd37f251f21>
	<CACUFQdzT+7QoHTfhvZWYwd+oJXF+iDDFqx9M=axADcBWBHdNLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D4567620322B4A468CDD3DECD5BAE0CE@OwnerPC>

Cindy,
So are  there three sections or how many? You said normal time is 30 minutes 
per section.
That would make six sections I think; if the normal test is three hours.

What does the math assess you on? Do you get to use a calculator?

Thanks.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Cynthia Bennett
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 5:33 PM
To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE

Arielle did a great job outlining the the GRE. It is unfortunate if
the self-voiced test is not ready, because the new GRE has been out
for a year. In any case, I would say that waiting for it if you can
would be worth it for the advantages like an instant score. You would
get a braille or large print supplement with the self-voiced test. It
would contain all of the questions. It is a hard copy duplicate of the
computer test. All of the math graphics are in the supplement and very
well done. There are descriptions in the self-voiced test, but you can
imagine that being able to touch raised graphics is much more quickly
understandable.

I think you can ask for 1.5 or double time. So, with double time, you
would get a little over 6 hours to take the test, and you can use the
6 hours however you want. With normal time, you would receive about 30
minutes per section, but with double time, you don't have to allot
double the time of each section and then start over. What I am trying
to say is that theoretically, you could use more than double time on
the math part if you needed it and if you could get through the verbal
and writing in less than double those time limits. I read braille very
well and comprehend things very easily and found that I was not rushed
and did not need all of the double time given to me, so I wouldn't
worry too much about whether it is enough unless you have other
circumstances.

If you do take the self-voiced test, ETS will send you a practice one.
You can go through tutorials before beginning the test which will not
use your test time, but I recommend knowing the keystrokes beforehand.

Once I got the accommidations process started, they were approved
quickly, but it is advisable to start a few months early. I had to
have a signed letter from an eye doctor and another letter from the
disabilities office at my school. ETS has to communicate with your
testing center of choice to see if they have the right equipment, a
computer with the right specs, so you need to allow for the time for
these communications to take place.

I bought some used Kaplan books and got a reader to help me with math
review. Be sure you get practice materials that reflect the content of
the new test.

One thing worth mentioning is that when I came in to take the test, I
brought headphones with me. My testing center was very hesitant, and
they wouldn't let me use them until they called ETS. ETS did allow me
to use headphones, but the testing center gave me a pair of theirs.
So, if you think you might want to use headphones, I would write it in
somewhere on your accommidations application and make sure ETS is ok
with it and that your testing center has a pair that you can use. It
wasn't that big of a deal, but on test day, you will probably feel
stressed and pressured and any little mishaps can seem like bigger
deals than they are. So take care of those things beforehand.

I will reiterate what Arielle said. The ETS disability office was very
helpful, and Ruth is easily accessible and can answer your questions.

Cindy

On 5/26/12, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Arielle,
> So for the self-voicing test, how is the math section done, especially if
> there are graphics? Are they described within the self-voiced test? I just
> thought that I would ask, because if one does not have access to the
> graphics that a sighted person would have access to, then it may affect
> one's score on the test. I like the idea of the computerized, self-voiced
> test.
> Thanks,
>
> Misty
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>
>
>> Hi all,
>> I took the GRE way back in 2007 and many things have changed since
>> then. For the most up-to-date information, I suggest contacting Ruth
>> Loew, assistant director of disability policy at ETS, at
>> rloew at ets.org
>> She has been involved with NABS for a long time and is very interested
>> in helping blind students navigate the accommodations system.
>> I do know that you can get Braille prep materials for the verbal and
>> math sections. You can choose to take the test using Braille, large
>> print or through a reader. There was an accessible "self-voicing"
>> version of the computer test that can be taken independently via
>> computer, but I believe that since the test changed recently, we are
>> still waiting for the new self-voicing version to be finalized and
>> made available to test-takers.
>> If using Braille, I believe the only way to mark your answers is with
>> a reader, at least until the self-voicing test is ready. You are
>> allowed to use a Perkins Brailler to write the essays for the writing
>> section and to do scratchwork for the math section, but you will
>> eventually need to dictate your Brailled essay to the reader.
>> One disadvantage of the Braille test is that it is the "paper-based"
>> test, while the reader-administered and self-voicing versions are the
>> "computer-based" test. Nowadays most of your sighted peers applying to
>> grad school will be taking the computer test, and also the computer
>> test is scored instantly, whereas the paper test takes a while to be
>> graded. However, there are obvious advantages to using Braille if you
>> are a Braille reader. I personally think the self-voicing test is the
>> best option, when it becomes available, as a blind test-taker can
>> complete it independently and there is no risk of having your score
>> affected by a reader's mistakes in recording your answers. However,
>> each person's accommodation decision is an individual one of course.
>> If you decide to use a reader rather than Braille to complete the
>> test, I would suggest doing all your practice and studying with
>> readers rather than with Braille, so you can get used to answering
>> questions and processing the information in this way.
>> Best,
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I might need this if I try grad school. Also, how long will the test
>>> take
>>> when you get extended time? What subjects are tested?
>>> How can you mark your answers? I'd opt for braille if they can provide 
>>> it
>>>
>>> in
>>>
>>> braille. But you cannot mark in a braille test.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Reinhard Stebner
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:31 AM
>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>
>>> Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the GRE
>>> and
>>> could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test administration
>>> was
>>> done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you use
>>> assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank you
>>> for
>>> your help.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cynthia Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun May 27 04:26:55 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 00:26:55 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com>
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C5F872EDDD624E3BA2E943D0CDCEACFB@OwnerPC>

Hi,
Good luck with the GRE! It sounds hard! Since the test is available to you 
in braille or with a reader, you can pick what suits you. Definitely study 
for it in the manner you will take the test though. So, if you'll use a 
reader, find a reader to prepare with. Maybe a classmate could help you if 
you're still in school.

Ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: Reinhard Stebner
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:31 AM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE

Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the GRE and
could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test administration was
done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you use
assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank you for
your help.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From trillian551 at gmail.com  Sun May 27 04:50:08 2012
From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 00:50:08 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <D4567620322B4A468CDD3DECD5BAE0CE@OwnerPC>
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com>
	<015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCp9sqjEZg=p=XWfZcMAORRQ8hST170rtbAPzDx6C3pSw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CF97A78BE094B019C0B3983F0B3B208@acerd37f251f21>
	<CACUFQdzT+7QoHTfhvZWYwd+oJXF+iDDFqx9M=axADcBWBHdNLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<D4567620322B4A468CDD3DECD5BAE0CE@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CADit0-toY7w+L18WzHEBGR_02fbv4t2yhoRvYBzkDg4+T473_A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
Just to add some thoughts here. First, Ashley, the test is broken down
into verbal and math. But each of those two have subsections. In the
old test, the verbal includes, two essays, and then two bigger
sections with reading comp, sentence completion, analogies and my
favorite, antonyms. The math tests you on basiccaly, high school math.
Which, while being fairly simple, can be challenging if you haven't
seen geometry and algebra 1 in 8 years. As an accomodation you may
request the use of a calculator, but the test is designed to be able
to be done with pencil nad paper, so you might not use it, and in the
long un it might harm you more.
Furthermore, Learning Ally and Bookshare both have GRE study
materials. So check those out as well. Whether you decide to taek the
new test or the old test, using Cracking the GRE and Word Smart IV
edition, can truly help you. Bookshare also has the math workout book
for the new test. Use your resources and good luck.
Mary F

On 5/27/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Cindy,
> So are  there three sections or how many? You said normal time is 30 minutes
>
> per section.
> That would make six sections I think; if the normal test is three hours.
>
> What does the math assess you on? Do you get to use a calculator?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cynthia Bennett
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 5:33 PM
> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>
> Arielle did a great job outlining the the GRE. It is unfortunate if
> the self-voiced test is not ready, because the new GRE has been out
> for a year. In any case, I would say that waiting for it if you can
> would be worth it for the advantages like an instant score. You would
> get a braille or large print supplement with the self-voiced test. It
> would contain all of the questions. It is a hard copy duplicate of the
> computer test. All of the math graphics are in the supplement and very
> well done. There are descriptions in the self-voiced test, but you can
> imagine that being able to touch raised graphics is much more quickly
> understandable.
>
> I think you can ask for 1.5 or double time. So, with double time, you
> would get a little over 6 hours to take the test, and you can use the
> 6 hours however you want. With normal time, you would receive about 30
> minutes per section, but with double time, you don't have to allot
> double the time of each section and then start over. What I am trying
> to say is that theoretically, you could use more than double time on
> the math part if you needed it and if you could get through the verbal
> and writing in less than double those time limits. I read braille very
> well and comprehend things very easily and found that I was not rushed
> and did not need all of the double time given to me, so I wouldn't
> worry too much about whether it is enough unless you have other
> circumstances.
>
> If you do take the self-voiced test, ETS will send you a practice one.
> You can go through tutorials before beginning the test which will not
> use your test time, but I recommend knowing the keystrokes beforehand.
>
> Once I got the accommidations process started, they were approved
> quickly, but it is advisable to start a few months early. I had to
> have a signed letter from an eye doctor and another letter from the
> disabilities office at my school. ETS has to communicate with your
> testing center of choice to see if they have the right equipment, a
> computer with the right specs, so you need to allow for the time for
> these communications to take place.
>
> I bought some used Kaplan books and got a reader to help me with math
> review. Be sure you get practice materials that reflect the content of
> the new test.
>
> One thing worth mentioning is that when I came in to take the test, I
> brought headphones with me. My testing center was very hesitant, and
> they wouldn't let me use them until they called ETS. ETS did allow me
> to use headphones, but the testing center gave me a pair of theirs.
> So, if you think you might want to use headphones, I would write it in
> somewhere on your accommidations application and make sure ETS is ok
> with it and that your testing center has a pair that you can use. It
> wasn't that big of a deal, but on test day, you will probably feel
> stressed and pressured and any little mishaps can seem like bigger
> deals than they are. So take care of those things beforehand.
>
> I will reiterate what Arielle said. The ETS disability office was very
> helpful, and Ruth is easily accessible and can answer your questions.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 5/26/12, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Arielle,
>> So for the self-voicing test, how is the math section done, especially if
>> there are graphics? Are they described within the self-voiced test? I
>> just
>> thought that I would ask, because if one does not have access to the
>> graphics that a sighted person would have access to, then it may affect
>> one's score on the test. I like the idea of the computerized, self-voiced
>> test.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Misty
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:44 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I took the GRE way back in 2007 and many things have changed since
>>> then. For the most up-to-date information, I suggest contacting Ruth
>>> Loew, assistant director of disability policy at ETS, at
>>> rloew at ets.org
>>> She has been involved with NABS for a long time and is very interested
>>> in helping blind students navigate the accommodations system.
>>> I do know that you can get Braille prep materials for the verbal and
>>> math sections. You can choose to take the test using Braille, large
>>> print or through a reader. There was an accessible "self-voicing"
>>> version of the computer test that can be taken independently via
>>> computer, but I believe that since the test changed recently, we are
>>> still waiting for the new self-voicing version to be finalized and
>>> made available to test-takers.
>>> If using Braille, I believe the only way to mark your answers is with
>>> a reader, at least until the self-voicing test is ready. You are
>>> allowed to use a Perkins Brailler to write the essays for the writing
>>> section and to do scratchwork for the math section, but you will
>>> eventually need to dictate your Brailled essay to the reader.
>>> One disadvantage of the Braille test is that it is the "paper-based"
>>> test, while the reader-administered and self-voicing versions are the
>>> "computer-based" test. Nowadays most of your sighted peers applying to
>>> grad school will be taking the computer test, and also the computer
>>> test is scored instantly, whereas the paper test takes a while to be
>>> graded. However, there are obvious advantages to using Braille if you
>>> are a Braille reader. I personally think the self-voicing test is the
>>> best option, when it becomes available, as a blind test-taker can
>>> complete it independently and there is no risk of having your score
>>> affected by a reader's mistakes in recording your answers. However,
>>> each person's accommodation decision is an individual one of course.
>>> If you decide to use a reader rather than Braille to complete the
>>> test, I would suggest doing all your practice and studying with
>>> readers rather than with Braille, so you can get used to answering
>>> questions and processing the information in this way.
>>> Best,
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I might need this if I try grad school. Also, how long will the test
>>>> take
>>>> when you get extended time? What subjects are tested?
>>>> How can you mark your answers? I'd opt for braille if they can provide
>>>> it
>>>>
>>>> in
>>>>
>>>> braille. But you cannot mark in a braille test.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Reinhard Stebner
>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:31 AM
>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>>
>>>> Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the GRE
>>>> and
>>>> could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test administration
>>>> was
>>>> done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you
>>>> use
>>>> assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank you
>>>> for
>>>> your help.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cynthia Bennett
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> 828.989.5383
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
Emory 2012
"Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
--
T.S. Eliot


From trillian551 at gmail.com  Sun May 27 05:23:28 2012
From: trillian551 at gmail.com (Mary Fernandez)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 01:23:28 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <CADit0-toY7w+L18WzHEBGR_02fbv4t2yhoRvYBzkDg4+T473_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com>
	<015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCp9sqjEZg=p=XWfZcMAORRQ8hST170rtbAPzDx6C3pSw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CF97A78BE094B019C0B3983F0B3B208@acerd37f251f21>
	<CACUFQdzT+7QoHTfhvZWYwd+oJXF+iDDFqx9M=axADcBWBHdNLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<D4567620322B4A468CDD3DECD5BAE0CE@OwnerPC>
	<CADit0-toY7w+L18WzHEBGR_02fbv4t2yhoRvYBzkDg4+T473_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CADit0-vy0iLOMy6u_FwrvBQpHDO2FPvzi89JD0fNH2HF4LHJrw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Ashley,
Arielle actually answered a lot of these questions already. But to elaborate...
The self-voice test uses a voice that ETS has developed. It is
synthesized but it is not JAWS.
You actually choose the answer you want on your computer, and press
enter to go to the next questions.
You will have a test supervisor no matter what, someone who will
oversee the test-taking but not necessarily be your reader. You will
not be assigned a reader, unless you request one.  However, you may
choose to have a Braille copy along with your computer test, so that
you can read the test yourself if you so choose to, and use both
formats, but you will have to mark your answers on the computer.
Yes, there is a difference between the computer test and the paper
and pencil test. Normally, the computer test actually adjust the level
of difficulty to the skill of the test-taker. But, this is not true,
at least as it stands now, of the GRE self-voiced test.
I took the GRE in Oct. of 2011.
Hope that this helps.
Mary F

On 5/27/12, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> Just to add some thoughts here. First, Ashley, the test is broken down
> into verbal and math. But each of those two have subsections. In the
> old test, the verbal includes, two essays, and then two bigger
> sections with reading comp, sentence completion, analogies and my
> favorite, antonyms. The math tests you on basiccaly, high school math.
> Which, while being fairly simple, can be challenging if you haven't
> seen geometry and algebra 1 in 8 years. As an accomodation you may
> request the use of a calculator, but the test is designed to be able
> to be done with pencil nad paper, so you might not use it, and in the
> long un it might harm you more.
> Furthermore, Learning Ally and Bookshare both have GRE study
> materials. So check those out as well. Whether you decide to taek the
> new test or the old test, using Cracking the GRE and Word Smart IV
> edition, can truly help you. Bookshare also has the math workout book
> for the new test. Use your resources and good luck.
> Mary F
>
> On 5/27/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Cindy,
>> So are  there three sections or how many? You said normal time is 30
>> minutes
>>
>> per section.
>> That would make six sections I think; if the normal test is three hours.
>>
>> What does the math assess you on? Do you get to use a calculator?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Cynthia Bennett
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 5:33 PM
>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>
>> Arielle did a great job outlining the the GRE. It is unfortunate if
>> the self-voiced test is not ready, because the new GRE has been out
>> for a year. In any case, I would say that waiting for it if you can
>> would be worth it for the advantages like an instant score. You would
>> get a braille or large print supplement with the self-voiced test. It
>> would contain all of the questions. It is a hard copy duplicate of the
>> computer test. All of the math graphics are in the supplement and very
>> well done. There are descriptions in the self-voiced test, but you can
>> imagine that being able to touch raised graphics is much more quickly
>> understandable.
>>
>> I think you can ask for 1.5 or double time. So, with double time, you
>> would get a little over 6 hours to take the test, and you can use the
>> 6 hours however you want. With normal time, you would receive about 30
>> minutes per section, but with double time, you don't have to allot
>> double the time of each section and then start over. What I am trying
>> to say is that theoretically, you could use more than double time on
>> the math part if you needed it and if you could get through the verbal
>> and writing in less than double those time limits. I read braille very
>> well and comprehend things very easily and found that I was not rushed
>> and did not need all of the double time given to me, so I wouldn't
>> worry too much about whether it is enough unless you have other
>> circumstances.
>>
>> If you do take the self-voiced test, ETS will send you a practice one.
>> You can go through tutorials before beginning the test which will not
>> use your test time, but I recommend knowing the keystrokes beforehand.
>>
>> Once I got the accommidations process started, they were approved
>> quickly, but it is advisable to start a few months early. I had to
>> have a signed letter from an eye doctor and another letter from the
>> disabilities office at my school. ETS has to communicate with your
>> testing center of choice to see if they have the right equipment, a
>> computer with the right specs, so you need to allow for the time for
>> these communications to take place.
>>
>> I bought some used Kaplan books and got a reader to help me with math
>> review. Be sure you get practice materials that reflect the content of
>> the new test.
>>
>> One thing worth mentioning is that when I came in to take the test, I
>> brought headphones with me. My testing center was very hesitant, and
>> they wouldn't let me use them until they called ETS. ETS did allow me
>> to use headphones, but the testing center gave me a pair of theirs.
>> So, if you think you might want to use headphones, I would write it in
>> somewhere on your accommidations application and make sure ETS is ok
>> with it and that your testing center has a pair that you can use. It
>> wasn't that big of a deal, but on test day, you will probably feel
>> stressed and pressured and any little mishaps can seem like bigger
>> deals than they are. So take care of those things beforehand.
>>
>> I will reiterate what Arielle said. The ETS disability office was very
>> helpful, and Ruth is easily accessible and can answer your questions.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> On 5/26/12, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Arielle,
>>> So for the self-voicing test, how is the math section done, especially
>>> if
>>> there are graphics? Are they described within the self-voiced test? I
>>> just
>>> thought that I would ask, because if one does not have access to the
>>> graphics that a sighted person would have access to, then it may affect
>>> one's score on the test. I like the idea of the computerized,
>>> self-voiced
>>> test.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Misty
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:44 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I took the GRE way back in 2007 and many things have changed since
>>>> then. For the most up-to-date information, I suggest contacting Ruth
>>>> Loew, assistant director of disability policy at ETS, at
>>>> rloew at ets.org
>>>> She has been involved with NABS for a long time and is very interested
>>>> in helping blind students navigate the accommodations system.
>>>> I do know that you can get Braille prep materials for the verbal and
>>>> math sections. You can choose to take the test using Braille, large
>>>> print or through a reader. There was an accessible "self-voicing"
>>>> version of the computer test that can be taken independently via
>>>> computer, but I believe that since the test changed recently, we are
>>>> still waiting for the new self-voicing version to be finalized and
>>>> made available to test-takers.
>>>> If using Braille, I believe the only way to mark your answers is with
>>>> a reader, at least until the self-voicing test is ready. You are
>>>> allowed to use a Perkins Brailler to write the essays for the writing
>>>> section and to do scratchwork for the math section, but you will
>>>> eventually need to dictate your Brailled essay to the reader.
>>>> One disadvantage of the Braille test is that it is the "paper-based"
>>>> test, while the reader-administered and self-voicing versions are the
>>>> "computer-based" test. Nowadays most of your sighted peers applying to
>>>> grad school will be taking the computer test, and also the computer
>>>> test is scored instantly, whereas the paper test takes a while to be
>>>> graded. However, there are obvious advantages to using Braille if you
>>>> are a Braille reader. I personally think the self-voicing test is the
>>>> best option, when it becomes available, as a blind test-taker can
>>>> complete it independently and there is no risk of having your score
>>>> affected by a reader's mistakes in recording your answers. However,
>>>> each person's accommodation decision is an individual one of course.
>>>> If you decide to use a reader rather than Braille to complete the
>>>> test, I would suggest doing all your practice and studying with
>>>> readers rather than with Braille, so you can get used to answering
>>>> questions and processing the information in this way.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I might need this if I try grad school. Also, how long will the test
>>>>> take
>>>>> when you get extended time? What subjects are tested?
>>>>> How can you mark your answers? I'd opt for braille if they can provide
>>>>> it
>>>>>
>>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>> braille. But you cannot mark in a braille test.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Reinhard Stebner
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:31 AM
>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>>>
>>>>> Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the GRE
>>>>> and
>>>>> could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test
>>>>> administration
>>>>> was
>>>>> done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you
>>>>> use
>>>>> assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank
>>>>> you
>>>>> for
>>>>> your help.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cynthia Bennett
>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> 828.989.5383
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory 2012
> "Do I dare
> Disturb the universe?
> In a minute there is time
> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
> --
> T.S. Eliot
>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
Emory 2012
"Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
--
T.S. Eliot


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun May 27 05:30:02 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 23:30:02 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <11C5DE20CFEB46DAB1D02F68CC8231A5@OwnerPC>
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com>
	<015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCp9sqjEZg=p=XWfZcMAORRQ8hST170rtbAPzDx6C3pSw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CF97A78BE094B019C0B3983F0B3B208@acerd37f251f21>
	<CACUFQdzT+7QoHTfhvZWYwd+oJXF+iDDFqx9M=axADcBWBHdNLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<11C5DE20CFEB46DAB1D02F68CC8231A5@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDys+A4w2vdyRmV=40QVY9OrndXL3X1GqoBWzryUH61kg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley,
Yes, at least with the old self-voicing test, it is read to you by a
screen reader similar to JAWS and the answers are marked via computer.
I have a friend who just took the test last month and he said that the
self-voicing test was not yet an option, so he used a reader. However
Ruth Loew posted a request for beta-testers for the self-voicing test
a while ago, so hopefully it will be ready soon.
I don't know how the content of the test has changed. When I took it
it was very similar to the SAT. There were sentence completions,
analogies and reading comprehension in the verbal section. The math
problems were mainly algebra and geometry and I don't think a
calculator was allowed. There was also a writing section that involved
writing an essay; however, all the verbal and math items were
multiple-choice.
The difference between the paper and computer tests is that the paper
test has a fixed set of questions, but the computer test is dynamic.
That is, the questions you get later on in the test depend on how well
you perform on earlier questions. If you are doing well, the test will
give you more difficult questions than if you do poorly at the
beginning. I think this allows you to earn a higher score if you are
able to pass the more difficult questions, although I'm not exactly
sure how the test is scored. The main thing is this is how most of
your competitors for grad school are tested. I'm not sure, then, how
the Braille supplement works if the test questions are dynamic.
Arielle

On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> So you all are saying the self voicing test is via computer; I assume then
> it is read to you through synthesized speech of some kind.
> Maybe someone will clarify if it is currently in that format. Anyone here
> taken the GRE in the past year?
>
> Other choices are braille and large print formats. I marked my answers
> through a reader for other braille standardized tests such as the SAT, so I
>
> would guess that using a reader for answers is the way it is now.
> Six hours is double time; sounds like an involved test.
> Is there reading comprehension involved? Also, is it
> mostly multiple choice? If not, what format?
>
>
> You all distinguish between paper and pencil test versus computer test.
> Does this mean the tests are actually different questions? I thought the
> only difference was that one was on the pc in a soft copy format and had a
> different order of questions than the paper based test.
>
> I can see the advantage of doing it with a reader and computer. Two of them
>
> are it is scored instantly and
> may take less time.
> But I also think there would be advantages with braille such as actually
> reading the sections yourself and taking time to analyze it to answer
> questions.
>
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cynthia Bennett
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 5:33 PM
> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>
> Arielle did a great job outlining the the GRE. It is unfortunate if
> the self-voiced test is not ready, because the new GRE has been out
> for a year. In any case, I would say that waiting for it if you can
> would be worth it for the advantages like an instant score. You would
> get a braille or large print supplement with the self-voiced test. It
> would contain all of the questions. It is a hard copy duplicate of the
> computer test. All of the math graphics are in the supplement and very
> well done. There are descriptions in the self-voiced test, but you can
> imagine that being able to touch raised graphics is much more quickly
> understandable.
>
> I think you can ask for 1.5 or double time. So, with double time, you
> would get a little over 6 hours to take the test, and you can use the
> 6 hours however you want. With normal time, you would receive about 30
> minutes per section, but with double time, you don't have to allot
> double the time of each section and then start over. What I am trying
> to say is that theoretically, you could use more than double time on
> the math part if you needed it and if you could get through the verbal
> and writing in less than double those time limits. I read braille very
> well and comprehend things very easily and found that I was not rushed
> and did not need all of the double time given to me, so I wouldn't
> worry too much about whether it is enough unless you have other
> circumstances.
>
> If you do take the self-voiced test, ETS will send you a practice one.
> You can go through tutorials before beginning the test which will not
> use your test time, but I recommend knowing the keystrokes beforehand.
>
> Once I got the accommidations process started, they were approved
> quickly, but it is advisable to start a few months early. I had to
> have a signed letter from an eye doctor and another letter from the
> disabilities office at my school. ETS has to communicate with your
> testing center of choice to see if they have the right equipment, a
> computer with the right specs, so you need to allow for the time for
> these communications to take place.
>
> I bought some used Kaplan books and got a reader to help me with math
> review. Be sure you get practice materials that reflect the content of
> the new test.
>
> One thing worth mentioning is that when I came in to take the test, I
> brought headphones with me. My testing center was very hesitant, and
> they wouldn't let me use them until they called ETS. ETS did allow me
> to use headphones, but the testing center gave me a pair of theirs.
> So, if you think you might want to use headphones, I would write it in
> somewhere on your accommidations application and make sure ETS is ok
> with it and that your testing center has a pair that you can use. It
> wasn't that big of a deal, but on test day, you will probably feel
> stressed and pressured and any little mishaps can seem like bigger
> deals than they are. So take care of those things beforehand.
>
> I will reiterate what Arielle said. The ETS disability office was very
> helpful, and Ruth is easily accessible and can answer your questions.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 5/26/12, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Arielle,
>> So for the self-voicing test, how is the math section done, especially if
>> there are graphics? Are they described within the self-voiced test? I
>> just
>> thought that I would ask, because if one does not have access to the
>> graphics that a sighted person would have access to, then it may affect
>> one's score on the test. I like the idea of the computerized, self-voiced
>> test.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Misty
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:44 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I took the GRE way back in 2007 and many things have changed since
>>> then. For the most up-to-date information, I suggest contacting Ruth
>>> Loew, assistant director of disability policy at ETS, at
>>> rloew at ets.org
>>> She has been involved with NABS for a long time and is very interested
>>> in helping blind students navigate the accommodations system.
>>> I do know that you can get Braille prep materials for the verbal and
>>> math sections. You can choose to take the test using Braille, large
>>> print or through a reader. There was an accessible "self-voicing"
>>> version of the computer test that can be taken independently via
>>> computer, but I believe that since the test changed recently, we are
>>> still waiting for the new self-voicing version to be finalized and
>>> made available to test-takers.
>>> If using Braille, I believe the only way to mark your answers is with
>>> a reader, at least until the self-voicing test is ready. You are
>>> allowed to use a Perkins Brailler to write the essays for the writing
>>> section and to do scratchwork for the math section, but you will
>>> eventually need to dictate your Brailled essay to the reader.
>>> One disadvantage of the Braille test is that it is the "paper-based"
>>> test, while the reader-administered and self-voicing versions are the
>>> "computer-based" test. Nowadays most of your sighted peers applying to
>>> grad school will be taking the computer test, and also the computer
>>> test is scored instantly, whereas the paper test takes a while to be
>>> graded. However, there are obvious advantages to using Braille if you
>>> are a Braille reader. I personally think the self-voicing test is the
>>> best option, when it becomes available, as a blind test-taker can
>>> complete it independently and there is no risk of having your score
>>> affected by a reader's mistakes in recording your answers. However,
>>> each person's accommodation decision is an individual one of course.
>>> If you decide to use a reader rather than Braille to complete the
>>> test, I would suggest doing all your practice and studying with
>>> readers rather than with Braille, so you can get used to answering
>>> questions and processing the information in this way.
>>> Best,
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I might need this if I try grad school. Also, how long will the test
>>>> take
>>>> when you get extended time? What subjects are tested?
>>>> How can you mark your answers? I'd opt for braille if they can provide
>>>> it
>>>>
>>>> in
>>>>
>>>> braille. But you cannot mark in a braille test.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Reinhard Stebner
>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:31 AM
>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>>
>>>> Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the GRE
>>>> and
>>>> could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test administration
>>>> was
>>>> done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you
>>>> use
>>>> assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank you
>>>> for
>>>> your help.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cynthia Bennett
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> 828.989.5383
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From kirt.crazydude at gmail.com  Sun May 27 06:46:56 2012
From: kirt.crazydude at gmail.com (Kirt)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 00:46:56 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
In-Reply-To: <002301cd3bbc$84518d80$8cf4a880$@gmail.com>
References: <4fc174ab.04cae00a.276b.5644@mx.google.com>
	<86335342-6FBA-49CD-9524-6E68710E18A6@gmail.com>
	<002301cd3bbc$84518d80$8cf4a880$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E5A4FD0D-BB4D-4B9A-8633-AE181D9CDA6F@gmail.com>

Oh, iPhones can open up Microsoft Word documents just fine… And this one was readable, just the iPhone rendered the format really really bizarrely and it would be much better on the computer.
Just my two cents,
Kurt

Sent from my iPhone

On May 26, 2012, at 9:55 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> Chelsea,
> 
> Hmm... well, the convention agenda, if you download it from the NFB Web site
> is in DOC (Microsoft Word) format, which, if I'm not mistaken, iPhones can't
> open because they're made by Apple. So, if you need it in another format,
> such as TXT or RTF in order for you to access it on your iPhone, please let
> me know and I can convert it for you.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Chelsea Page
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 8:52 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
> 
> Can someone tell me how i might possibly save it on my iPhone?
> Thanks
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On May 26, 2012, at 7:25 PM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Brandon,
>> 
>> Just to let you know, what you have attached is your convention
> preregistration information, not the agenda.  The agenda, by the way, is
> available on the home page at www.nfb.org under the Upcoming Events heading.
> I downloaded it today.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
>> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>> 
>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> sent: Sat, 26 May 2012 08:48:08 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
>> 
>> Hello,
>> attached you'll find the full who knows how many page document talking 
>> about every single thing that's going on.
>> HOW DO YOU CHOOSE WHAT TO GO TO? EEEKKK!!! LOL I think there is a NABs 
>> meeting Sunday night.
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 8:36 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
>> 
>> I went to the Website, and all I found was a vague schedule.
>> What time will the NABS meeting be?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
>> iggs%40gmail.com
>> 
>> <2012 NFB Convention Preregistration.doc> <attachment> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmail
>> .com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
> om
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40gmail.com


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sun May 27 08:43:55 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 03:43:55 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJDVB7Ep=BLanma0Wi0U0XzTB6C445BeYnK_1+QLkVQ1wQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4FC0E256.9080109@gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOsnr9vEA77_bPHGV7BGxw0X=6Vv9x2G-eco=Ppe+nNBCw@mail.gmail.com>
	<00a601cd3b5c$5f472320$1dd56960$@net>
	<CALAYQJDVB7Ep=BLanma0Wi0U0XzTB6C445BeYnK_1+QLkVQ1wQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvFWOOghGSHY-2Z6ii69qOFpFAORBXNp9B1Hy+GbVE75Q@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Arielle.
#1. I don't get the Braille Monitor, so I can't listen to it, unliss I
subscribe to get it, which I will do, at convention.
I'm getting the Braille version, this time.
Also, #2. I went to the site, and read the schedule, but it didn't
give the information I was looking for, like the times for each
meeting, unless I was looking in the wrong place.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/26/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Just to be fair to Joshua, Dave Andrews usually does email out the
> agenda every year. So Joshua was correct when he said he was expecting
> to get an email with it. However, Dave usually doesn't send it out
> until the first week of June. As others have pointed out, you can get
> it before Dave sends it out by going to the NFB website. However, I
> didn't know that it was up yet, either, until Karen mentioned it this
> morning. I've been around the NFB a long time, and in fact used to be
> your president, and I listen to the presidential releases, but I
> didn't know exactly when the agenda goes up on the website. So let's
> not jump on one of our fellow listers or start talking about
> "inappropriate behavior" just because he made an honest mistake.
> Arielle
>
> On 5/26/12, Tina Thomas <tinadt at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> First of all, had you been listening to the monthly presidential release
>> and
>> or reading your Braille Monitor you would have known to check the NFB
>> website for all convention activities. So instead of making assumptions
>> and
>> accusations check your facts before writing and sending a message that
>> makes
>> you look foolish. Now Josh I'm not picking on you, but in recent years,
>> I've
>> notice that with this younger generation of students we have become  a
>> little softer and more politically  correct as well as tolerant of
>> behaviors
>> that are inappropriate and intolerable  because we're afraid to hurt
>> someone's feelings. Well let me just tell you when I started in the
>> student's division many moons ago as well as going to a NFB center we got
>> our feet put to the fire and at the time, we thought our mentors were
>> being
>> mean and harsh but looking back on all of those experiences now, I'm
>> grateful that they cared enough to teach us  self respect,
>> responsibility
>> and accountability.  I think that NABS should provide   mentoring to
>> those
>> students who are new to the federation and NABS and since I brought it
>> up,
>> I'm willing to spend time with a student who wants to learn about our
>> philosophy as well as what having well adjusted blindness skills can do
>> to
>> further self concept and confidence. I think that this is one area that
>> NABS
>> has been lacking in recent years, and as an older student who is now a
>> TVI,
>> I think it would be in  NABS best interest to seek out some of the older
>> students and have us buddy up with a young student and provide them with
>> the
>> knowledge that was given to us by our mentors who were and are still
>> federationists.
>> Regards,
>> Tina
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 7:17 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
>>
>> What?
>> You got the agenda, before everyone else?
>> Please send it to me, off list!
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/26/12, Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hey guys!
>>> So you know how we were talking about the GPS app for the iPhone from
>>> Sendero being a possibility? Well, I looked at the Agenda for
>>> convention, and look!!! This is an item for one of the General
>>> sessions. :)
>>>
>>> "THE SEEINGEYE APP: GPS FOR THE BLIND ON THE iPHONE
>>>
>>> Mike May, Chief Executive Officer, Sendero Group; Davis, California"
>>> I can't wait!! Our convention is so exciting this year!
>>> Anyways, just wanted to let you know.
>>> Jordyn
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
>>> ents.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tinadt%40sbcglobal.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From lizmohnke at hotmail.com  Sun May 27 15:53:20 2012
From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 11:53:20 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading the Braille Monitor
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOvFWOOghGSHY-2Z6ii69qOFpFAORBXNp9B1Hy+GbVE75Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4FC0E256.9080109@gmail.com><CAO83KOsnr9vEA77_bPHGV7BGxw0X=6Vv9x2G-eco=Ppe+nNBCw@mail.gmail.com><00a601cd3b5c$5f472320$1dd56960$@net><CALAYQJDVB7Ep=BLanma0Wi0U0XzTB6C445BeYnK_1+QLkVQ1wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOvFWOOghGSHY-2Z6ii69qOFpFAORBXNp9B1Hy+GbVE75Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL118-DS217C7594A5380BE6730C3BA070@phx.gbl>

Hello Joshua  and All,

While subscribing to the Braille Monitor ensures that you receive it each 
month, there are a few ways to read it that do not involve a subscription. 
In addition to the various subscription options, you can also read the 
Braille Monitor online at the NFB website as well as through Newsline. If 
you view it online through the NFB website, you can view older issues of the 
Braille Monitor that go back as far as ten or twenty years. So if you are 
currently not a subscriber of the Braille Monitor, and would like to read 
through some of the most recent issues or articles, I would suggest finding 
it online. Unless I am mistaken, I believe you can find issues of the 
Braille Monitor listed under the publications section of the NFB website.

Hope this helps,
Elizabeth



--------------------------------------------------
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 4:43 AM
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions

> Thanks, Arielle.
> #1. I don't get the Braille Monitor, so I can't listen to it, unliss I
> subscribe to get it, which I will do, at convention.
> I'm getting the Braille version, this time.
> Also, #2. I went to the site, and read the schedule, but it didn't
> give the information I was looking for, like the times for each
> meeting, unless I was looking in the wrong place.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/26/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Just to be fair to Joshua, Dave Andrews usually does email out the
>> agenda every year. So Joshua was correct when he said he was expecting
>> to get an email with it. However, Dave usually doesn't send it out
>> until the first week of June. As others have pointed out, you can get
>> it before Dave sends it out by going to the NFB website. However, I
>> didn't know that it was up yet, either, until Karen mentioned it this
>> morning. I've been around the NFB a long time, and in fact used to be
>> your president, and I listen to the presidential releases, but I
>> didn't know exactly when the agenda goes up on the website. So let's
>> not jump on one of our fellow listers or start talking about
>> "inappropriate behavior" just because he made an honest mistake.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 5/26/12, Tina Thomas <tinadt at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> First of all, had you been listening to the monthly presidential release
>>> and
>>> or reading your Braille Monitor you would have known to check the NFB
>>> website for all convention activities. So instead of making assumptions
>>> and
>>> accusations check your facts before writing and sending a message that
>>> makes
>>> you look foolish. Now Josh I'm not picking on you, but in recent years,
>>> I've
>>> notice that with this younger generation of students we have become  a
>>> little softer and more politically  correct as well as tolerant of
>>> behaviors
>>> that are inappropriate and intolerable  because we're afraid to hurt
>>> someone's feelings. Well let me just tell you when I started in the
>>> student's division many moons ago as well as going to a NFB center we 
>>> got
>>> our feet put to the fire and at the time, we thought our mentors were
>>> being
>>> mean and harsh but looking back on all of those experiences now, I'm
>>> grateful that they cared enough to teach us  self respect,
>>> responsibility
>>> and accountability.  I think that NABS should provide   mentoring to
>>> those
>>> students who are new to the federation and NABS and since I brought it
>>> up,
>>> I'm willing to spend time with a student who wants to learn about our
>>> philosophy as well as what having well adjusted blindness skills can do
>>> to
>>> further self concept and confidence. I think that this is one area that
>>> NABS
>>> has been lacking in recent years, and as an older student who is now a
>>> TVI,
>>> I think it would be in  NABS best interest to seek out some of the older
>>> students and have us buddy up with a young student and provide them with
>>> the
>>> knowledge that was given to us by our mentors who were and are still
>>> federationists.
>>> Regards,
>>> Tina
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Joshua Lester
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 7:17 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
>>>
>>> What?
>>> You got the agenda, before everyone else?
>>> Please send it to me, off list!
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 5/26/12, Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hey guys!
>>>> So you know how we were talking about the GPS app for the iPhone from
>>>> Sendero being a possibility? Well, I looked at the Agenda for
>>>> convention, and look!!! This is an item for one of the General
>>>> sessions. :)
>>>>
>>>> "THE SEEINGEYE APP: GPS FOR THE BLIND ON THE iPHONE
>>>>
>>>> Mike May, Chief Executive Officer, Sendero Group; Davis, California"
>>>> I can't wait!! Our convention is so exciting this year!
>>>> Anyways, just wanted to let you know.
>>>> Jordyn
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
>>>> ents.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tinadt%40sbcglobal.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
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> 


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun May 27 17:21:31 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 13:21:31 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
Message-ID: <4fc262b2.88c4e00a.7d30.ffff8be9@mx.google.com>

Josh,

Look a little further! * Smile! *

 On the NFB home page, you will see a heading after all of the 
main navigation links which says "Upcoming Events." Look under 
that heading, and you should find "June 30-July 5, national 
convention." Note: don't click on the national convention link if 
you are looking for the agenda.  Under the information about 
convention that is on the home page, you should see a link that 
says something like "the convention agenda is now available." 
Click on that link, and your computer's standard download 
dialogue box will come up.  Just download the file (it is in 
.doc, or Microsoft Word 97-2003 format,) and save it wherever you 
want to save it on your computer, and you should be good to go!

Hope this helps,

Chris

Chris Nusbaum

"For we walk by faith, not by sight."
2 Corinthians 5:7

Sent from my BrailleNote

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
 sent: Sat, 26 May 2012 10:36:59 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda

I went to the Website, and all I found was a vague schedule.
What time will the NABS meeting be?
Thanks, Joshua

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
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m%40gmail.com


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun May 27 18:03:58 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 14:03:58 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading the Braille Monitor
In-Reply-To: <COL118-DS217C7594A5380BE6730C3BA070@phx.gbl>
References: <4FC0E256.9080109@gmail.com><CAO83KOsnr9vEA77_bPHGV7BGxw0X=6Vv9x2G-eco=Ppe+nNBCw@mail.gmail.com><00a601cd3b5c$5f472320$1dd56960$@net><CALAYQJDVB7Ep=BLanma0Wi0U0XzTB6C445BeYnK_1+QLkVQ1wQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CAO83KOvFWOOghGSHY-2Z6ii69qOFpFAORBXNp9B1Hy+GbVE75Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL118-DS217C7594A5380BE6730C3BA070@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <002401cd3c33$17c50940$474f1bc0$@gmail.com>

Hi Elizabeth and everyone,

You are correct! Here is how to access the Monitor on the Web site and on
Newsline for the phone:

On the Web site:

1. Go to www.nfb.org
2. On the home page, click on the Publications link.
3. On the publications page, click on Braille Monitor.
4. Select the decade you want, for example 2000-Present to read the most
recent issues.
5. Once you have clicked on a decade, you will find headings for each year.
Select the heading with the year you want to read from, for example 2012.
6. Select the month you want from the links under the heading for each year.
7. Once you have selected the month, a new page will load which will look
like the cover of that issue of the Monitor. Under the cover text, you
should see a "Contents" heading. Note: In the 2012 issues, there will be a
link on the cover page which says "skip to contents." If you are reading the
Monitor on the Web site, you might want to click on that link so you can
skip all the information on the cover about the thumb drive version of the
Monitor and how to access it on an NLS player. Under the contents heading,
you will find links to all the articles, plus a Listen Now (MP3) link to
listen to the audio version of each article, as was recorded in the
cassette/thumb drive versions.

On Newsline (assuming you are using the phone to access Newsline:)

1. Of course, log into Newsline.
2. From the main menu, press option 7 for magazines.
3. When prompted by Newsline to select a category, select Blindness-Spesific
by pressing option 1.
4. Press 1 again for the Braille Monitor.
5. Select the issue you want to read. Note: Because of the way Newsline is
set up, each monthly issue of the magazine will be read as the issue for the
first of that month. For example, the May issue of the Monitor will be read
on Newsline as "The Braille Monitor for May 1, 2012."
6. Select the section you want to read. Most of the time, you want to press
11 for the Articles section. The About the Braille Monitor section is all
the information on the cover.
7. Read the articles using the standard Newsline commands (1 to go to the
previous article, 3 to go to the next article, etc.)

By the way, I personally am subscribed to the hardcopy Braille version of
the Monitor, but sometimes I'll look at it on the Web site or on Newsline if
I want to refer back to an article or if I want to read something in the
Monitor before my Braille issue comes. Josh, see my previous email for a
more detailed explanation of how to find the agenda on the Web site. Happy
reading!!

Hope this helps,

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Elizabeth
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 11:53 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Reading the Braille Monitor

Hello Joshua  and All,

While subscribing to the Braille Monitor ensures that you receive it each
month, there are a few ways to read it that do not involve a subscription. 
In addition to the various subscription options, you can also read the
Braille Monitor online at the NFB website as well as through Newsline. If
you view it online through the NFB website, you can view older issues of the
Braille Monitor that go back as far as ten or twenty years. So if you are
currently not a subscriber of the Braille Monitor, and would like to read
through some of the most recent issues or articles, I would suggest finding
it online. Unless I am mistaken, I believe you can find issues of the
Braille Monitor listed under the publications section of the NFB website.

Hope this helps,
Elizabeth



--------------------------------------------------
From: "Joshua Lester" <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 4:43 AM
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions

> Thanks, Arielle.
> #1. I don't get the Braille Monitor, so I can't listen to it, unliss I 
> subscribe to get it, which I will do, at convention.
> I'm getting the Braille version, this time.
> Also, #2. I went to the site, and read the schedule, but it didn't 
> give the information I was looking for, like the times for each 
> meeting, unless I was looking in the wrong place.
> Blessings, Joshua
>
> On 5/26/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Just to be fair to Joshua, Dave Andrews usually does email out the 
>> agenda every year. So Joshua was correct when he said he was 
>> expecting to get an email with it. However, Dave usually doesn't send 
>> it out until the first week of June. As others have pointed out, you 
>> can get it before Dave sends it out by going to the NFB website. 
>> However, I didn't know that it was up yet, either, until Karen 
>> mentioned it this morning. I've been around the NFB a long time, and 
>> in fact used to be your president, and I listen to the presidential 
>> releases, but I didn't know exactly when the agenda goes up on the 
>> website. So let's not jump on one of our fellow listers or start 
>> talking about "inappropriate behavior" just because he made an honest
mistake.
>> Arielle
>>
>> On 5/26/12, Tina Thomas <tinadt at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>> First of all, had you been listening to the monthly presidential 
>>> release and or reading your Braille Monitor you would have known to 
>>> check the NFB website for all convention activities. So instead of 
>>> making assumptions and accusations check your facts before writing 
>>> and sending a message that makes you look foolish. Now Josh I'm not 
>>> picking on you, but in recent years, I've notice that with this 
>>> younger generation of students we have become  a little softer and 
>>> more politically  correct as well as tolerant of behaviors that are 
>>> inappropriate and intolerable  because we're afraid to hurt 
>>> someone's feelings. Well let me just tell you when I started in the 
>>> student's division many moons ago as well as going to a NFB center 
>>> we got our feet put to the fire and at the time, we thought our 
>>> mentors were being mean and harsh but looking back on all of those 
>>> experiences now, I'm grateful that they cared enough to teach us  
>>> self respect, responsibility
>>> and accountability.  I think that NABS should provide   mentoring to
>>> those
>>> students who are new to the federation and NABS and since I brought 
>>> it up, I'm willing to spend time with a student who wants to learn 
>>> about our philosophy as well as what having well adjusted blindness 
>>> skills can do to further self concept and confidence. I think that 
>>> this is one area that NABS has been lacking in recent years, and as 
>>> an older student who is now a TVI, I think it would be in  NABS best 
>>> interest to seek out some of the older students and have us buddy up 
>>> with a young student and provide them with the knowledge that was 
>>> given to us by our mentors who were and are still federationists.
>>> Regards,
>>> Tina
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] 
>>> On Behalf Of Joshua Lester
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 7:17 AM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
>>>
>>> What?
>>> You got the agenda, before everyone else?
>>> Please send it to me, off list!
>>> Thanks, Joshua
>>>
>>> On 5/26/12, Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hey guys!
>>>> So you know how we were talking about the GPS app for the iPhone 
>>>> from Sendero being a possibility? Well, I looked at the Agenda for 
>>>> convention, and look!!! This is an item for one of the General 
>>>> sessions. :)
>>>>
>>>> "THE SEEINGEYE APP: GPS FOR THE BLIND ON THE iPHONE
>>>>
>>>> Mike May, Chief Executive Officer, Sendero Group; Davis, California"
>>>> I can't wait!! Our convention is so exciting this year!
>>>> Anyways, just wanted to let you know.
>>>> Jordyn
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>>> for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40s
>>>> tud
>>>> ents.pccua.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tinadt%40sbcglob
>>> al.net
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmai
>>> l.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stu
>> dents.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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> l.com
> 

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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om



From clb5590 at gmail.com  Sun May 27 18:17:00 2012
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 11:17:00 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <CADit0-vy0iLOMy6u_FwrvBQpHDO2FPvzi89JD0fNH2HF4LHJrw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com>
	<015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCp9sqjEZg=p=XWfZcMAORRQ8hST170rtbAPzDx6C3pSw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CF97A78BE094B019C0B3983F0B3B208@acerd37f251f21>
	<CACUFQdzT+7QoHTfhvZWYwd+oJXF+iDDFqx9M=axADcBWBHdNLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<D4567620322B4A468CDD3DECD5BAE0CE@OwnerPC>
	<CADit0-toY7w+L18WzHEBGR_02fbv4t2yhoRvYBzkDg4+T473_A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADit0-vy0iLOMy6u_FwrvBQpHDO2FPvzi89JD0fNH2HF4LHJrw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACUFQdwcOz0tdNO4t_0v3JF=S-5XGRLajs8G9wTpghc5fqQbSw@mail.gmail.com>

If you were taking the GRE without accommidations on the computer,
then your difficulty of question would depend on your answer to the
previous question, and your score would be adjusted to reflect the
difficulty of questions you successfully answered. However, even if
you do the self-voiced computer test, the questions you answer are set
from the beginning. I am guessing that questions of all difficulty are
included. It is something that kind of bothers me. If you use any
accommidation, then you are not included in the statistical
distribution of scores ETS receive, and I am pretty sure this reflects
on your score report. I could be wrong. However, if this is the case,
it definitely adds to the "do you tell schools you apply to about your
disability?" Because if your score report does reflect that, then your
schools don't know why. So disclosing your disability in your
applicaitoon might be helpful just so they know. Like I said, I cannot
confirm this though. I have heard it from other people, but I haven't
looked at my official score report for a long time.

Cindy

On 5/26/12, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Ashley,
> Arielle actually answered a lot of these questions already. But to
> elaborate...
> The self-voice test uses a voice that ETS has developed. It is
> synthesized but it is not JAWS.
> You actually choose the answer you want on your computer, and press
> enter to go to the next questions.
> You will have a test supervisor no matter what, someone who will
> oversee the test-taking but not necessarily be your reader. You will
> not be assigned a reader, unless you request one.  However, you may
> choose to have a Braille copy along with your computer test, so that
> you can read the test yourself if you so choose to, and use both
> formats, but you will have to mark your answers on the computer.
> Yes, there is a difference between the computer test and the paper
> and pencil test. Normally, the computer test actually adjust the level
> of difficulty to the skill of the test-taker. But, this is not true,
> at least as it stands now, of the GRE self-voiced test.
> I took the GRE in Oct. of 2011.
> Hope that this helps.
> Mary F
>
> On 5/27/12, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> Just to add some thoughts here. First, Ashley, the test is broken down
>> into verbal and math. But each of those two have subsections. In the
>> old test, the verbal includes, two essays, and then two bigger
>> sections with reading comp, sentence completion, analogies and my
>> favorite, antonyms. The math tests you on basiccaly, high school math.
>> Which, while being fairly simple, can be challenging if you haven't
>> seen geometry and algebra 1 in 8 years. As an accomodation you may
>> request the use of a calculator, but the test is designed to be able
>> to be done with pencil nad paper, so you might not use it, and in the
>> long un it might harm you more.
>> Furthermore, Learning Ally and Bookshare both have GRE study
>> materials. So check those out as well. Whether you decide to taek the
>> new test or the old test, using Cracking the GRE and Word Smart IV
>> edition, can truly help you. Bookshare also has the math workout book
>> for the new test. Use your resources and good luck.
>> Mary F
>>
>> On 5/27/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> Cindy,
>>> So are  there three sections or how many? You said normal time is 30
>>> minutes
>>>
>>> per section.
>>> That would make six sections I think; if the normal test is three hours.
>>>
>>> What does the math assess you on? Do you get to use a calculator?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Ashley
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Cynthia Bennett
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 5:33 PM
>>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
>>> list
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>
>>> Arielle did a great job outlining the the GRE. It is unfortunate if
>>> the self-voiced test is not ready, because the new GRE has been out
>>> for a year. In any case, I would say that waiting for it if you can
>>> would be worth it for the advantages like an instant score. You would
>>> get a braille or large print supplement with the self-voiced test. It
>>> would contain all of the questions. It is a hard copy duplicate of the
>>> computer test. All of the math graphics are in the supplement and very
>>> well done. There are descriptions in the self-voiced test, but you can
>>> imagine that being able to touch raised graphics is much more quickly
>>> understandable.
>>>
>>> I think you can ask for 1.5 or double time. So, with double time, you
>>> would get a little over 6 hours to take the test, and you can use the
>>> 6 hours however you want. With normal time, you would receive about 30
>>> minutes per section, but with double time, you don't have to allot
>>> double the time of each section and then start over. What I am trying
>>> to say is that theoretically, you could use more than double time on
>>> the math part if you needed it and if you could get through the verbal
>>> and writing in less than double those time limits. I read braille very
>>> well and comprehend things very easily and found that I was not rushed
>>> and did not need all of the double time given to me, so I wouldn't
>>> worry too much about whether it is enough unless you have other
>>> circumstances.
>>>
>>> If you do take the self-voiced test, ETS will send you a practice one.
>>> You can go through tutorials before beginning the test which will not
>>> use your test time, but I recommend knowing the keystrokes beforehand.
>>>
>>> Once I got the accommidations process started, they were approved
>>> quickly, but it is advisable to start a few months early. I had to
>>> have a signed letter from an eye doctor and another letter from the
>>> disabilities office at my school. ETS has to communicate with your
>>> testing center of choice to see if they have the right equipment, a
>>> computer with the right specs, so you need to allow for the time for
>>> these communications to take place.
>>>
>>> I bought some used Kaplan books and got a reader to help me with math
>>> review. Be sure you get practice materials that reflect the content of
>>> the new test.
>>>
>>> One thing worth mentioning is that when I came in to take the test, I
>>> brought headphones with me. My testing center was very hesitant, and
>>> they wouldn't let me use them until they called ETS. ETS did allow me
>>> to use headphones, but the testing center gave me a pair of theirs.
>>> So, if you think you might want to use headphones, I would write it in
>>> somewhere on your accommidations application and make sure ETS is ok
>>> with it and that your testing center has a pair that you can use. It
>>> wasn't that big of a deal, but on test day, you will probably feel
>>> stressed and pressured and any little mishaps can seem like bigger
>>> deals than they are. So take care of those things beforehand.
>>>
>>> I will reiterate what Arielle said. The ETS disability office was very
>>> helpful, and Ruth is easily accessible and can answer your questions.
>>>
>>> Cindy
>>>
>>> On 5/26/12, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Hi Arielle,
>>>> So for the self-voicing test, how is the math section done, especially
>>>> if
>>>> there are graphics? Are they described within the self-voiced test? I
>>>> just
>>>> thought that I would ask, because if one does not have access to the
>>>> graphics that a sighted person would have access to, then it may affect
>>>> one's score on the test. I like the idea of the computerized,
>>>> self-voiced
>>>> test.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Misty
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:44 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>> I took the GRE way back in 2007 and many things have changed since
>>>>> then. For the most up-to-date information, I suggest contacting Ruth
>>>>> Loew, assistant director of disability policy at ETS, at
>>>>> rloew at ets.org
>>>>> She has been involved with NABS for a long time and is very interested
>>>>> in helping blind students navigate the accommodations system.
>>>>> I do know that you can get Braille prep materials for the verbal and
>>>>> math sections. You can choose to take the test using Braille, large
>>>>> print or through a reader. There was an accessible "self-voicing"
>>>>> version of the computer test that can be taken independently via
>>>>> computer, but I believe that since the test changed recently, we are
>>>>> still waiting for the new self-voicing version to be finalized and
>>>>> made available to test-takers.
>>>>> If using Braille, I believe the only way to mark your answers is with
>>>>> a reader, at least until the self-voicing test is ready. You are
>>>>> allowed to use a Perkins Brailler to write the essays for the writing
>>>>> section and to do scratchwork for the math section, but you will
>>>>> eventually need to dictate your Brailled essay to the reader.
>>>>> One disadvantage of the Braille test is that it is the "paper-based"
>>>>> test, while the reader-administered and self-voicing versions are the
>>>>> "computer-based" test. Nowadays most of your sighted peers applying to
>>>>> grad school will be taking the computer test, and also the computer
>>>>> test is scored instantly, whereas the paper test takes a while to be
>>>>> graded. However, there are obvious advantages to using Braille if you
>>>>> are a Braille reader. I personally think the self-voicing test is the
>>>>> best option, when it becomes available, as a blind test-taker can
>>>>> complete it independently and there is no risk of having your score
>>>>> affected by a reader's mistakes in recording your answers. However,
>>>>> each person's accommodation decision is an individual one of course.
>>>>> If you decide to use a reader rather than Braille to complete the
>>>>> test, I would suggest doing all your practice and studying with
>>>>> readers rather than with Braille, so you can get used to answering
>>>>> questions and processing the information in this way.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Arielle
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I might need this if I try grad school. Also, how long will the test
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> when you get extended time? What subjects are tested?
>>>>>> How can you mark your answers? I'd opt for braille if they can
>>>>>> provide
>>>>>> it
>>>>>>
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>
>>>>>> braille. But you cannot mark in a braille test.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Reinhard Stebner
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:31 AM
>>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the
>>>>>> GRE
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test
>>>>>> administration
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you
>>>>>> use
>>>>>> assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> your help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Cynthia Bennett
>>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>>
>>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>>> 828.989.5383
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mary Fernandez
>> Emory 2012
>> "Do I dare
>> Disturb the universe?
>> In a minute there is time
>> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
>> --
>> T.S. Eliot
>>
>
>
> --
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory 2012
> "Do I dare
> Disturb the universe?
> In a minute there is time
> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
> --
> T.S. Eliot
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cynthia Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun May 27 18:35:23 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 14:35:23 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOvFWOOghGSHY-2Z6ii69qOFpFAORBXNp9B1Hy+GbVE75Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4FC0E256.9080109@gmail.com>	<CAO83KOsnr9vEA77_bPHGV7BGxw0X=6Vv9x2G-eco=Ppe+nNBCw@mail.gmail.com>	<00a601cd3b5c$5f472320$1dd56960$@net>	<CALAYQJDVB7Ep=BLanma0Wi0U0XzTB6C445BeYnK_1+QLkVQ1wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOvFWOOghGSHY-2Z6ii69qOFpFAORBXNp9B1Hy+GbVE75Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002e01cd3c37$7b8df0a0$72a9d1e0$@gmail.com>

Joshua,

See my previous message replying to your convention agenda email. This will
give you a more detailed explanation of how to find the agenda on the NFB
Web site.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 4:44 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions

Thanks, Arielle.
#1. I don't get the Braille Monitor, so I can't listen to it, unliss I
subscribe to get it, which I will do, at convention.
I'm getting the Braille version, this time.
Also, #2. I went to the site, and read the schedule, but it didn't give the
information I was looking for, like the times for each meeting, unless I was
looking in the wrong place.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/26/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Just to be fair to Joshua, Dave Andrews usually does email out the 
> agenda every year. So Joshua was correct when he said he was expecting 
> to get an email with it. However, Dave usually doesn't send it out 
> until the first week of June. As others have pointed out, you can get 
> it before Dave sends it out by going to the NFB website. However, I 
> didn't know that it was up yet, either, until Karen mentioned it this 
> morning. I've been around the NFB a long time, and in fact used to be 
> your president, and I listen to the presidential releases, but I 
> didn't know exactly when the agenda goes up on the website. So let's 
> not jump on one of our fellow listers or start talking about 
> "inappropriate behavior" just because he made an honest mistake.
> Arielle
>
> On 5/26/12, Tina Thomas <tinadt at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> First of all, had you been listening to the monthly presidential 
>> release and or reading your Braille Monitor you would have known to 
>> check the NFB website for all convention activities. So instead of 
>> making assumptions and accusations check your facts before writing 
>> and sending a message that makes you look foolish. Now Josh I'm not 
>> picking on you, but in recent years, I've notice that with this 
>> younger generation of students we have become  a little softer and 
>> more politically  correct as well as tolerant of behaviors that are 
>> inappropriate and intolerable  because we're afraid to hurt someone's 
>> feelings. Well let me just tell you when I started in the student's 
>> division many moons ago as well as going to a NFB center we got our 
>> feet put to the fire and at the time, we thought our mentors were 
>> being mean and harsh but looking back on all of those experiences 
>> now, I'm grateful that they cared enough to teach us  self respect, 
>> responsibility
>> and accountability.  I think that NABS should provide   mentoring to
>> those
>> students who are new to the federation and NABS and since I brought 
>> it up, I'm willing to spend time with a student who wants to learn 
>> about our philosophy as well as what having well adjusted blindness 
>> skills can do to further self concept and confidence. I think that 
>> this is one area that NABS has been lacking in recent years, and as 
>> an older student who is now a TVI, I think it would be in  NABS best 
>> interest to seek out some of the older students and have us buddy up 
>> with a young student and provide them with the knowledge that was 
>> given to us by our mentors who were and are still federationists.
>> Regards,
>> Tina
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 7:17 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] GPS Solutions
>>
>> What?
>> You got the agenda, before everyone else?
>> Please send it to me, off list!
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/26/12, Jordyn Castor <jordyn2493 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hey guys!
>>> So you know how we were talking about the GPS app for the iPhone 
>>> from Sendero being a possibility? Well, I looked at the Agenda for 
>>> convention, and look!!! This is an item for one of the General 
>>> sessions. :)
>>>
>>> "THE SEEINGEYE APP: GPS FOR THE BLIND ON THE iPHONE
>>>
>>> Mike May, Chief Executive Officer, Sendero Group; Davis, California"
>>> I can't wait!! Our convention is so exciting this year!
>>> Anyways, just wanted to let you know.
>>> Jordyn
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
>>> for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40st
>>> ud
>>> ents.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tinadt%40sbcgloba
>> l.net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
> ents.pccua.edu
>

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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om



From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Sun May 27 18:37:06 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 14:37:06 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
In-Reply-To: <E5A4FD0D-BB4D-4B9A-8633-AE181D9CDA6F@gmail.com>
References: <4fc174ab.04cae00a.276b.5644@mx.google.com>	<86335342-6FBA-49CD-9524-6E68710E18A6@gmail.com>	<002301cd3bbc$84518d80$8cf4a880$@gmail.com>
	<E5A4FD0D-BB4D-4B9A-8633-AE181D9CDA6F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002f01cd3c37$b8c8af00$2a5a0d00$@gmail.com>

Oh, OK. My BrailleNote did the same thing until I converted it into KeyWord format.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kirt
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 2:47 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention agenda

Oh, iPhones can open up Microsoft Word documents just fine… And this one was readable, just the iPhone rendered the format really really bizarrely and it would be much better on the computer.
Just my two cents,
Kurt

Sent from my iPhone

On May 26, 2012, at 9:55 PM, "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:

> Chelsea,
> 
> Hmm... well, the convention agenda, if you download it from the NFB 
> Web site is in DOC (Microsoft Word) format, which, if I'm not 
> mistaken, iPhones can't open because they're made by Apple. So, if you 
> need it in another format, such as TXT or RTF in order for you to 
> access it on your iPhone, please let me know and I can convert it for you.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf Of Chelsea Page
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 8:52 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
> 
> Can someone tell me how i might possibly save it on my iPhone?
> Thanks
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On May 26, 2012, at 7:25 PM, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Brandon,
>> 
>> Just to let you know, what you have attached is your convention
> preregistration information, not the agenda.  The agenda, by the way, 
> is available on the home page at www.nfb.org under the Upcoming Events heading.
> I downloaded it today.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum
>> 
>> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
>> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>> 
>> Sent from my BrailleNote
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Brandon Keith Biggs" <brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> sent: Sat, 26 May 2012 08:48:08 -0700
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
>> 
>> Hello,
>> attached you'll find the full who knows how many page document 
>> talking about every single thing that's going on.
>> HOW DO YOU CHOOSE WHAT TO GO TO? EEEKKK!!! LOL I think there is a 
>> NABs meeting Sunday night.
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Brandon Keith Biggs
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joshua Lester
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 8:36 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
>> 
>> I went to the Website, and all I found was a vague schedule.
>> What time will the NABS meeting be?
>> Thanks, Joshua
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithb
>> iggs%40gmail.com
>> 
>> <2012 NFB Convention Preregistration.doc> <attachment> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmai
>> l
>> .com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40g
> mail.c
> om
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kirt.crazydude%40g
> mail.com

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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun May 27 18:45:52 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 14:45:52 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <CADit0-toY7w+L18WzHEBGR_02fbv4t2yhoRvYBzkDg4+T473_A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com><015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC><CALAYQJCp9sqjEZg=p=XWfZcMAORRQ8hST170rtbAPzDx6C3pSw@mail.gmail.com><7CF97A78BE094B019C0B3983F0B3B208@acerd37f251f21><CACUFQdzT+7QoHTfhvZWYwd+oJXF+iDDFqx9M=axADcBWBHdNLg@mail.gmail.com><D4567620322B4A468CDD3DECD5BAE0CE@OwnerPC>
	<CADit0-toY7w+L18WzHEBGR_02fbv4t2yhoRvYBzkDg4+T473_A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FA9E18CD1A954CC59A4C4F8E1C1C22B6@OwnerPC>

Mary,
Thanks. So no wonder I was confused. There are two sections with 
subsections.
I thought the math section had college level math; that is good if it does 
not though as that is my weak point.
Algebra I could handle, but I never did well with geometry.

If you use a braille test, how long does it take to get scores back? I know 
times vary,  but I just wondered in general. Where did you get Cracking the 
GRE?


-----Original Message----- 
From: Mary Fernandez
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 12:50 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE

Hi all,
Just to add some thoughts here. First, Ashley, the test is broken down
into verbal and math. But each of those two have subsections. In the
old test, the verbal includes, two essays, and then two bigger
sections with reading comp, sentence completion, analogies and my
favorite, antonyms. The math tests you on basiccaly, high school math.
Which, while being fairly simple, can be challenging if you haven't
seen geometry and algebra 1 in 8 years. As an accomodation you may
request the use of a calculator, but the test is designed to be able
to be done with pencil nad paper, so you might not use it, and in the
long un it might harm you more.
Furthermore, Learning Ally and Bookshare both have GRE study
materials. So check those out as well. Whether you decide to taek the
new test or the old test, using Cracking the GRE and Word Smart IV
edition, can truly help you. Bookshare also has the math workout book
for the new test. Use your resources and good luck.
Mary F

On 5/27/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Cindy,
> So are  there three sections or how many? You said normal time is 30 
> minutes
>
> per section.
> That would make six sections I think; if the normal test is three hours.
>
> What does the math assess you on? Do you get to use a calculator?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ashley
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cynthia Bennett
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 5:33 PM
> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>
> Arielle did a great job outlining the the GRE. It is unfortunate if
> the self-voiced test is not ready, because the new GRE has been out
> for a year. In any case, I would say that waiting for it if you can
> would be worth it for the advantages like an instant score. You would
> get a braille or large print supplement with the self-voiced test. It
> would contain all of the questions. It is a hard copy duplicate of the
> computer test. All of the math graphics are in the supplement and very
> well done. There are descriptions in the self-voiced test, but you can
> imagine that being able to touch raised graphics is much more quickly
> understandable.
>
> I think you can ask for 1.5 or double time. So, with double time, you
> would get a little over 6 hours to take the test, and you can use the
> 6 hours however you want. With normal time, you would receive about 30
> minutes per section, but with double time, you don't have to allot
> double the time of each section and then start over. What I am trying
> to say is that theoretically, you could use more than double time on
> the math part if you needed it and if you could get through the verbal
> and writing in less than double those time limits. I read braille very
> well and comprehend things very easily and found that I was not rushed
> and did not need all of the double time given to me, so I wouldn't
> worry too much about whether it is enough unless you have other
> circumstances.
>
> If you do take the self-voiced test, ETS will send you a practice one.
> You can go through tutorials before beginning the test which will not
> use your test time, but I recommend knowing the keystrokes beforehand.
>
> Once I got the accommidations process started, they were approved
> quickly, but it is advisable to start a few months early. I had to
> have a signed letter from an eye doctor and another letter from the
> disabilities office at my school. ETS has to communicate with your
> testing center of choice to see if they have the right equipment, a
> computer with the right specs, so you need to allow for the time for
> these communications to take place.
>
> I bought some used Kaplan books and got a reader to help me with math
> review. Be sure you get practice materials that reflect the content of
> the new test.
>
> One thing worth mentioning is that when I came in to take the test, I
> brought headphones with me. My testing center was very hesitant, and
> they wouldn't let me use them until they called ETS. ETS did allow me
> to use headphones, but the testing center gave me a pair of theirs.
> So, if you think you might want to use headphones, I would write it in
> somewhere on your accommidations application and make sure ETS is ok
> with it and that your testing center has a pair that you can use. It
> wasn't that big of a deal, but on test day, you will probably feel
> stressed and pressured and any little mishaps can seem like bigger
> deals than they are. So take care of those things beforehand.
>
> I will reiterate what Arielle said. The ETS disability office was very
> helpful, and Ruth is easily accessible and can answer your questions.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 5/26/12, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Arielle,
>> So for the self-voicing test, how is the math section done, especially if
>> there are graphics? Are they described within the self-voiced test? I
>> just
>> thought that I would ask, because if one does not have access to the
>> graphics that a sighted person would have access to, then it may affect
>> one's score on the test. I like the idea of the computerized, self-voiced
>> test.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Misty
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:44 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I took the GRE way back in 2007 and many things have changed since
>>> then. For the most up-to-date information, I suggest contacting Ruth
>>> Loew, assistant director of disability policy at ETS, at
>>> rloew at ets.org
>>> She has been involved with NABS for a long time and is very interested
>>> in helping blind students navigate the accommodations system.
>>> I do know that you can get Braille prep materials for the verbal and
>>> math sections. You can choose to take the test using Braille, large
>>> print or through a reader. There was an accessible "self-voicing"
>>> version of the computer test that can be taken independently via
>>> computer, but I believe that since the test changed recently, we are
>>> still waiting for the new self-voicing version to be finalized and
>>> made available to test-takers.
>>> If using Braille, I believe the only way to mark your answers is with
>>> a reader, at least until the self-voicing test is ready. You are
>>> allowed to use a Perkins Brailler to write the essays for the writing
>>> section and to do scratchwork for the math section, but you will
>>> eventually need to dictate your Brailled essay to the reader.
>>> One disadvantage of the Braille test is that it is the "paper-based"
>>> test, while the reader-administered and self-voicing versions are the
>>> "computer-based" test. Nowadays most of your sighted peers applying to
>>> grad school will be taking the computer test, and also the computer
>>> test is scored instantly, whereas the paper test takes a while to be
>>> graded. However, there are obvious advantages to using Braille if you
>>> are a Braille reader. I personally think the self-voicing test is the
>>> best option, when it becomes available, as a blind test-taker can
>>> complete it independently and there is no risk of having your score
>>> affected by a reader's mistakes in recording your answers. However,
>>> each person's accommodation decision is an individual one of course.
>>> If you decide to use a reader rather than Braille to complete the
>>> test, I would suggest doing all your practice and studying with
>>> readers rather than with Braille, so you can get used to answering
>>> questions and processing the information in this way.
>>> Best,
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I might need this if I try grad school. Also, how long will the test
>>>> take
>>>> when you get extended time? What subjects are tested?
>>>> How can you mark your answers? I'd opt for braille if they can provide
>>>> it
>>>>
>>>> in
>>>>
>>>> braille. But you cannot mark in a braille test.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Reinhard Stebner
>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:31 AM
>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>>
>>>> Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the GRE
>>>> and
>>>> could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test administration
>>>> was
>>>> done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you
>>>> use
>>>> assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank you
>>>> for
>>>> your help.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cynthia Bennett
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> 828.989.5383
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
Emory 2012
"Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
--
T.S. Eliot

_______________________________________________
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun May 27 18:50:02 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 14:50:02 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <CADit0-vy0iLOMy6u_FwrvBQpHDO2FPvzi89JD0fNH2HF4LHJrw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com><015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC><CALAYQJCp9sqjEZg=p=XWfZcMAORRQ8hST170rtbAPzDx6C3pSw@mail.gmail.com><7CF97A78BE094B019C0B3983F0B3B208@acerd37f251f21><CACUFQdzT+7QoHTfhvZWYwd+oJXF+iDDFqx9M=axADcBWBHdNLg@mail.gmail.com><D4567620322B4A468CDD3DECD5BAE0CE@OwnerPC><CADit0-toY7w+L18WzHEBGR_02fbv4t2yhoRvYBzkDg4+T473_A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADit0-vy0iLOMy6u_FwrvBQpHDO2FPvzi89JD0fNH2HF4LHJrw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <218426FE97C743BE889BF08ED1D74653@OwnerPC>

Mary,
This makes sense now. I knew ETS had developed some sort of talking software 
for the GRE.
Like many standardized tests, the computer one now adjusts to the level of 
difficulty of the test taker. Ah, now I see the discrepancy. It would be a 
lot different for other test takers without accomodations.

Well, at least they made a computer version accessible to us.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mary Fernandez
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 1:23 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE

Dear Ashley,
Arielle actually answered a lot of these questions already. But to 
elaborate...
The self-voice test uses a voice that ETS has developed. It is
synthesized but it is not JAWS.
You actually choose the answer you want on your computer, and press
enter to go to the next questions.
You will have a test supervisor no matter what, someone who will
oversee the test-taking but not necessarily be your reader. You will
not be assigned a reader, unless you request one.  However, you may
choose to have a Braille copy along with your computer test, so that
you can read the test yourself if you so choose to, and use both
formats, but you will have to mark your answers on the computer.
Yes, there is a difference between the computer test and the paper
and pencil test. Normally, the computer test actually adjust the level
of difficulty to the skill of the test-taker. But, this is not true,
at least as it stands now, of the GRE self-voiced test.
I took the GRE in Oct. of 2011.
Hope that this helps.
Mary F

On 5/27/12, Mary Fernandez <trillian551 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> Just to add some thoughts here. First, Ashley, the test is broken down
> into verbal and math. But each of those two have subsections. In the
> old test, the verbal includes, two essays, and then two bigger
> sections with reading comp, sentence completion, analogies and my
> favorite, antonyms. The math tests you on basiccaly, high school math.
> Which, while being fairly simple, can be challenging if you haven't
> seen geometry and algebra 1 in 8 years. As an accomodation you may
> request the use of a calculator, but the test is designed to be able
> to be done with pencil nad paper, so you might not use it, and in the
> long un it might harm you more.
> Furthermore, Learning Ally and Bookshare both have GRE study
> materials. So check those out as well. Whether you decide to taek the
> new test or the old test, using Cracking the GRE and Word Smart IV
> edition, can truly help you. Bookshare also has the math workout book
> for the new test. Use your resources and good luck.
> Mary F
>
> On 5/27/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Cindy,
>> So are  there three sections or how many? You said normal time is 30
>> minutes
>>
>> per section.
>> That would make six sections I think; if the normal test is three hours.
>>
>> What does the math assess you on? Do you get to use a calculator?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Cynthia Bennett
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 5:33 PM
>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>
>> Arielle did a great job outlining the the GRE. It is unfortunate if
>> the self-voiced test is not ready, because the new GRE has been out
>> for a year. In any case, I would say that waiting for it if you can
>> would be worth it for the advantages like an instant score. You would
>> get a braille or large print supplement with the self-voiced test. It
>> would contain all of the questions. It is a hard copy duplicate of the
>> computer test. All of the math graphics are in the supplement and very
>> well done. There are descriptions in the self-voiced test, but you can
>> imagine that being able to touch raised graphics is much more quickly
>> understandable.
>>
>> I think you can ask for 1.5 or double time. So, with double time, you
>> would get a little over 6 hours to take the test, and you can use the
>> 6 hours however you want. With normal time, you would receive about 30
>> minutes per section, but with double time, you don't have to allot
>> double the time of each section and then start over. What I am trying
>> to say is that theoretically, you could use more than double time on
>> the math part if you needed it and if you could get through the verbal
>> and writing in less than double those time limits. I read braille very
>> well and comprehend things very easily and found that I was not rushed
>> and did not need all of the double time given to me, so I wouldn't
>> worry too much about whether it is enough unless you have other
>> circumstances.
>>
>> If you do take the self-voiced test, ETS will send you a practice one.
>> You can go through tutorials before beginning the test which will not
>> use your test time, but I recommend knowing the keystrokes beforehand.
>>
>> Once I got the accommidations process started, they were approved
>> quickly, but it is advisable to start a few months early. I had to
>> have a signed letter from an eye doctor and another letter from the
>> disabilities office at my school. ETS has to communicate with your
>> testing center of choice to see if they have the right equipment, a
>> computer with the right specs, so you need to allow for the time for
>> these communications to take place.
>>
>> I bought some used Kaplan books and got a reader to help me with math
>> review. Be sure you get practice materials that reflect the content of
>> the new test.
>>
>> One thing worth mentioning is that when I came in to take the test, I
>> brought headphones with me. My testing center was very hesitant, and
>> they wouldn't let me use them until they called ETS. ETS did allow me
>> to use headphones, but the testing center gave me a pair of theirs.
>> So, if you think you might want to use headphones, I would write it in
>> somewhere on your accommidations application and make sure ETS is ok
>> with it and that your testing center has a pair that you can use. It
>> wasn't that big of a deal, but on test day, you will probably feel
>> stressed and pressured and any little mishaps can seem like bigger
>> deals than they are. So take care of those things beforehand.
>>
>> I will reiterate what Arielle said. The ETS disability office was very
>> helpful, and Ruth is easily accessible and can answer your questions.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> On 5/26/12, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Arielle,
>>> So for the self-voicing test, how is the math section done, especially
>>> if
>>> there are graphics? Are they described within the self-voiced test? I
>>> just
>>> thought that I would ask, because if one does not have access to the
>>> graphics that a sighted person would have access to, then it may affect
>>> one's score on the test. I like the idea of the computerized,
>>> self-voiced
>>> test.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Misty
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:44 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I took the GRE way back in 2007 and many things have changed since
>>>> then. For the most up-to-date information, I suggest contacting Ruth
>>>> Loew, assistant director of disability policy at ETS, at
>>>> rloew at ets.org
>>>> She has been involved with NABS for a long time and is very interested
>>>> in helping blind students navigate the accommodations system.
>>>> I do know that you can get Braille prep materials for the verbal and
>>>> math sections. You can choose to take the test using Braille, large
>>>> print or through a reader. There was an accessible "self-voicing"
>>>> version of the computer test that can be taken independently via
>>>> computer, but I believe that since the test changed recently, we are
>>>> still waiting for the new self-voicing version to be finalized and
>>>> made available to test-takers.
>>>> If using Braille, I believe the only way to mark your answers is with
>>>> a reader, at least until the self-voicing test is ready. You are
>>>> allowed to use a Perkins Brailler to write the essays for the writing
>>>> section and to do scratchwork for the math section, but you will
>>>> eventually need to dictate your Brailled essay to the reader.
>>>> One disadvantage of the Braille test is that it is the "paper-based"
>>>> test, while the reader-administered and self-voicing versions are the
>>>> "computer-based" test. Nowadays most of your sighted peers applying to
>>>> grad school will be taking the computer test, and also the computer
>>>> test is scored instantly, whereas the paper test takes a while to be
>>>> graded. However, there are obvious advantages to using Braille if you
>>>> are a Braille reader. I personally think the self-voicing test is the
>>>> best option, when it becomes available, as a blind test-taker can
>>>> complete it independently and there is no risk of having your score
>>>> affected by a reader's mistakes in recording your answers. However,
>>>> each person's accommodation decision is an individual one of course.
>>>> If you decide to use a reader rather than Braille to complete the
>>>> test, I would suggest doing all your practice and studying with
>>>> readers rather than with Braille, so you can get used to answering
>>>> questions and processing the information in this way.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I might need this if I try grad school. Also, how long will the test
>>>>> take
>>>>> when you get extended time? What subjects are tested?
>>>>> How can you mark your answers? I'd opt for braille if they can provide
>>>>> it
>>>>>
>>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>> braille. But you cannot mark in a braille test.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Reinhard Stebner
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:31 AM
>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>>>
>>>>> Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the GRE
>>>>> and
>>>>> could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test
>>>>> administration
>>>>> was
>>>>> done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you
>>>>> use
>>>>> assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank
>>>>> you
>>>>> for
>>>>> your help.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cynthia Bennett
>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> 828.989.5383
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/trillian551%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Mary Fernandez
> Emory 2012
> "Do I dare
> Disturb the universe?
> In a minute there is time
> For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
> --
> T.S. Eliot
>


-- 
Mary Fernandez
Emory 2012
"Do I dare
Disturb the universe?
In a minute there is time
For decisions and revisions which a minute will reverse."
--
T.S. Eliot

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Sun May 27 18:52:35 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 13:52:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
In-Reply-To: <4fc262b2.88c4e00a.7d30.ffff8be9@mx.google.com>
References: <4fc262b2.88c4e00a.7d30.ffff8be9@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOvbOfN0B0eAXx_FYdYQYkuh4mhSm5bhVJ=XKGiW9yQPCQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks!
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/27/12, Chris Nusbaum <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com> wrote:
> Josh,
>
> Look a little further! * Smile! *
>
>  On the NFB home page, you will see a heading after all of the
> main navigation links which says "Upcoming Events." Look under
> that heading, and you should find "June 30-July 5, national
> convention." Note: don't click on the national convention link if
> you are looking for the agenda.  Under the information about
> convention that is on the home page, you should see a link that
> says something like "the convention agenda is now available."
> Click on that link, and your computer's standard download
> dialogue box will come up.  Just download the file (it is in
> .doc, or Microsoft Word 97-2003 format,) and save it wherever you
> want to save it on your computer, and you should be good to go!
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Chris
>
> Chris Nusbaum
>
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight."
> 2 Corinthians 5:7
>
> Sent from my BrailleNote
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>  sent: Sat, 26 May 2012 10:36:59 -0500
> Subject: [nabs-l] Convention agenda
>
> I went to the Website, and all I found was a vague schedule.
> What time will the NABS meeting be?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbau
> m%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun May 27 19:06:10 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 15:06:10 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJDys+A4w2vdyRmV=40QVY9OrndXL3X1GqoBWzryUH61kg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com><015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC><CALAYQJCp9sqjEZg=p=XWfZcMAORRQ8hST170rtbAPzDx6C3pSw@mail.gmail.com><7CF97A78BE094B019C0B3983F0B3B208@acerd37f251f21><CACUFQdzT+7QoHTfhvZWYwd+oJXF+iDDFqx9M=axADcBWBHdNLg@mail.gmail.com><11C5DE20CFEB46DAB1D02F68CC8231A5@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJDys+A4w2vdyRmV=40QVY9OrndXL3X1GqoBWzryUH61kg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6273DA5F545D419D9FD8C7E94B0125EB@OwnerPC>

Arielle,
Thanks. Yes sounds a lot like the SAT; and it seems typical for computer 
based tests to be dynamic, as you said to change with the level of 
difficulty the test taker needs.
Which source, if any, has braille prep materials? Learning ally would be 
audio.
It doesn't seem fair to have to dictate your essay to a scribe, but I guess 
that is the only way for them to read it.
They cannot read braille.
I had to do that with the praxis test I took; I was going to be an education 
major before I got too discouraged.
I took Praxis I, a test that all  prospective teachers take and found it 
troublesome to dictate my essay to the scribe. We ran out of time for it 
because you know they count the time you dictate to the scribe as part of 
your test taking time. So I had less time to write my essay. Then, I had to 
repeat some things to the scribe since I said it too fast. Dictating 
something and having them keep up with you is a skill, and with a new reader 
scribe its kind of hard. I've done that for other tests in college but they 
were shorter essays.

I'm glad accomodations have improved, but it still seems a bit unfair. I'm 
glad to know of the discrepancies between the paper and computer test.

Ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 1:30 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE

Hi Ashley,
Yes, at least with the old self-voicing test, it is read to you by a
screen reader similar to JAWS and the answers are marked via computer.
I have a friend who just took the test last month and he said that the
self-voicing test was not yet an option, so he used a reader. However
Ruth Loew posted a request for beta-testers for the self-voicing test
a while ago, so hopefully it will be ready soon.
I don't know how the content of the test has changed. When I took it
it was very similar to the SAT. There were sentence completions,
analogies and reading comprehension in the verbal section. The math
problems were mainly algebra and geometry and I don't think a
calculator was allowed. There was also a writing section that involved
writing an essay; however, all the verbal and math items were
multiple-choice.
The difference between the paper and computer tests is that the paper
test has a fixed set of questions, but the computer test is dynamic.
That is, the questions you get later on in the test depend on how well
you perform on earlier questions. If you are doing well, the test will
give you more difficult questions than if you do poorly at the
beginning. I think this allows you to earn a higher score if you are
able to pass the more difficult questions, although I'm not exactly
sure how the test is scored. The main thing is this is how most of
your competitors for grad school are tested. I'm not sure, then, how
the Braille supplement works if the test questions are dynamic.
Arielle

On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> So you all are saying the self voicing test is via computer; I assume then
> it is read to you through synthesized speech of some kind.
> Maybe someone will clarify if it is currently in that format. Anyone here
> taken the GRE in the past year?
>
> Other choices are braille and large print formats. I marked my answers
> through a reader for other braille standardized tests such as the SAT, so 
> I
>
> would guess that using a reader for answers is the way it is now.
> Six hours is double time; sounds like an involved test.
> Is there reading comprehension involved? Also, is it
> mostly multiple choice? If not, what format?
>
>
> You all distinguish between paper and pencil test versus computer test.
> Does this mean the tests are actually different questions? I thought the
> only difference was that one was on the pc in a soft copy format and had a
> different order of questions than the paper based test.
>
> I can see the advantage of doing it with a reader and computer. Two of 
> them
>
> are it is scored instantly and
> may take less time.
> But I also think there would be advantages with braille such as actually
> reading the sections yourself and taking time to analyze it to answer
> questions.
>
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cynthia Bennett
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 5:33 PM
> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>
> Arielle did a great job outlining the the GRE. It is unfortunate if
> the self-voiced test is not ready, because the new GRE has been out
> for a year. In any case, I would say that waiting for it if you can
> would be worth it for the advantages like an instant score. You would
> get a braille or large print supplement with the self-voiced test. It
> would contain all of the questions. It is a hard copy duplicate of the
> computer test. All of the math graphics are in the supplement and very
> well done. There are descriptions in the self-voiced test, but you can
> imagine that being able to touch raised graphics is much more quickly
> understandable.
>
> I think you can ask for 1.5 or double time. So, with double time, you
> would get a little over 6 hours to take the test, and you can use the
> 6 hours however you want. With normal time, you would receive about 30
> minutes per section, but with double time, you don't have to allot
> double the time of each section and then start over. What I am trying
> to say is that theoretically, you could use more than double time on
> the math part if you needed it and if you could get through the verbal
> and writing in less than double those time limits. I read braille very
> well and comprehend things very easily and found that I was not rushed
> and did not need all of the double time given to me, so I wouldn't
> worry too much about whether it is enough unless you have other
> circumstances.
>
> If you do take the self-voiced test, ETS will send you a practice one.
> You can go through tutorials before beginning the test which will not
> use your test time, but I recommend knowing the keystrokes beforehand.
>
> Once I got the accommidations process started, they were approved
> quickly, but it is advisable to start a few months early. I had to
> have a signed letter from an eye doctor and another letter from the
> disabilities office at my school. ETS has to communicate with your
> testing center of choice to see if they have the right equipment, a
> computer with the right specs, so you need to allow for the time for
> these communications to take place.
>
> I bought some used Kaplan books and got a reader to help me with math
> review. Be sure you get practice materials that reflect the content of
> the new test.
>
> One thing worth mentioning is that when I came in to take the test, I
> brought headphones with me. My testing center was very hesitant, and
> they wouldn't let me use them until they called ETS. ETS did allow me
> to use headphones, but the testing center gave me a pair of theirs.
> So, if you think you might want to use headphones, I would write it in
> somewhere on your accommidations application and make sure ETS is ok
> with it and that your testing center has a pair that you can use. It
> wasn't that big of a deal, but on test day, you will probably feel
> stressed and pressured and any little mishaps can seem like bigger
> deals than they are. So take care of those things beforehand.
>
> I will reiterate what Arielle said. The ETS disability office was very
> helpful, and Ruth is easily accessible and can answer your questions.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 5/26/12, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Arielle,
>> So for the self-voicing test, how is the math section done, especially if
>> there are graphics? Are they described within the self-voiced test? I
>> just
>> thought that I would ask, because if one does not have access to the
>> graphics that a sighted person would have access to, then it may affect
>> one's score on the test. I like the idea of the computerized, self-voiced
>> test.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Misty
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:44 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I took the GRE way back in 2007 and many things have changed since
>>> then. For the most up-to-date information, I suggest contacting Ruth
>>> Loew, assistant director of disability policy at ETS, at
>>> rloew at ets.org
>>> She has been involved with NABS for a long time and is very interested
>>> in helping blind students navigate the accommodations system.
>>> I do know that you can get Braille prep materials for the verbal and
>>> math sections. You can choose to take the test using Braille, large
>>> print or through a reader. There was an accessible "self-voicing"
>>> version of the computer test that can be taken independently via
>>> computer, but I believe that since the test changed recently, we are
>>> still waiting for the new self-voicing version to be finalized and
>>> made available to test-takers.
>>> If using Braille, I believe the only way to mark your answers is with
>>> a reader, at least until the self-voicing test is ready. You are
>>> allowed to use a Perkins Brailler to write the essays for the writing
>>> section and to do scratchwork for the math section, but you will
>>> eventually need to dictate your Brailled essay to the reader.
>>> One disadvantage of the Braille test is that it is the "paper-based"
>>> test, while the reader-administered and self-voicing versions are the
>>> "computer-based" test. Nowadays most of your sighted peers applying to
>>> grad school will be taking the computer test, and also the computer
>>> test is scored instantly, whereas the paper test takes a while to be
>>> graded. However, there are obvious advantages to using Braille if you
>>> are a Braille reader. I personally think the self-voicing test is the
>>> best option, when it becomes available, as a blind test-taker can
>>> complete it independently and there is no risk of having your score
>>> affected by a reader's mistakes in recording your answers. However,
>>> each person's accommodation decision is an individual one of course.
>>> If you decide to use a reader rather than Braille to complete the
>>> test, I would suggest doing all your practice and studying with
>>> readers rather than with Braille, so you can get used to answering
>>> questions and processing the information in this way.
>>> Best,
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I might need this if I try grad school. Also, how long will the test
>>>> take
>>>> when you get extended time? What subjects are tested?
>>>> How can you mark your answers? I'd opt for braille if they can provide
>>>> it
>>>>
>>>> in
>>>>
>>>> braille. But you cannot mark in a braille test.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Reinhard Stebner
>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:31 AM
>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>>
>>>> Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the GRE
>>>> and
>>>> could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test administration
>>>> was
>>>> done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you
>>>> use
>>>> assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank you
>>>> for
>>>> your help.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cynthia Bennett
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> 828.989.5383
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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From kea.anderson at gmail.com  Sun May 27 19:36:15 2012
From: kea.anderson at gmail.com (Karen Anderson)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 14:36:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <6273DA5F545D419D9FD8C7E94B0125EB@OwnerPC>
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com><015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC><CALAYQJCp9sqjEZg=p=XWfZcMAORRQ8hST170rtbAPzDx6C3pSw@mail.gmail.com><7CF97A78BE094B019C0B3983F0B3B208@acerd37f251f21><CACUFQdzT+7QoHTfhvZWYwd+oJXF+iDDFqx9M=axADcBWBHdNLg@mail.gmail.com><11C5DE20CFEB46DAB1D02F68CC8231A5@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJDys+A4w2vdyRmV=40QVY9OrndXL3X1GqoBWzryUH61kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6273DA5F545D419D9FD8C7E94B0125EB@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <4fc2822f.65a7b60a.1ed2.ffffff9d@mx.google.com>

Hi all,

As someone who will have to take the GRE in the near future, I was very
encouraged when I heard that they were developing accessible tests. However,
hearing that sighted test-takers are being given a different test than we
are greatly distresses me. I realize they want to give us access to Braille
materials, and I'm glad of that. However, with today's technology, there is
no reason they couldn't develop a computerized exam that works with a
Braille display. This way we could have access to Braille, while still
taking the test our peers take. 
	If it's true that scores are weighted differently, and that our
scores are not counted in the statistics, then this is a form of
discrimination. 
	I realize things are considerably better for our generation of
students than those who came before us. However, better does not mean equal.
having electronic books, but still getting them after classes start, does
not put us on an equal playing field. Having electronic texts that are
poorly marked up makes searching and studying more challenging and less
productive. I realize that in some situations we need to work harder to
overcome some of these barriers, and I am willing to do that. However, we
should have the opportunity to take the same test our sighted peers take,
and to be scored in the same manner.

Just my thoughts,

Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 2:06 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE

Arielle,
Thanks. Yes sounds a lot like the SAT; and it seems typical for computer 
based tests to be dynamic, as you said to change with the level of 
difficulty the test taker needs.
Which source, if any, has braille prep materials? Learning ally would be 
audio.
It doesn't seem fair to have to dictate your essay to a scribe, but I guess 
that is the only way for them to read it.
They cannot read braille.
I had to do that with the praxis test I took; I was going to be an education

major before I got too discouraged.
I took Praxis I, a test that all  prospective teachers take and found it 
troublesome to dictate my essay to the scribe. We ran out of time for it 
because you know they count the time you dictate to the scribe as part of 
your test taking time. So I had less time to write my essay. Then, I had to 
repeat some things to the scribe since I said it too fast. Dictating 
something and having them keep up with you is a skill, and with a new reader

scribe its kind of hard. I've done that for other tests in college but they 
were shorter essays.

I'm glad accomodations have improved, but it still seems a bit unfair. I'm 
glad to know of the discrepancies between the paper and computer test.

Ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 1:30 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE

Hi Ashley,
Yes, at least with the old self-voicing test, it is read to you by a
screen reader similar to JAWS and the answers are marked via computer.
I have a friend who just took the test last month and he said that the
self-voicing test was not yet an option, so he used a reader. However
Ruth Loew posted a request for beta-testers for the self-voicing test
a while ago, so hopefully it will be ready soon.
I don't know how the content of the test has changed. When I took it
it was very similar to the SAT. There were sentence completions,
analogies and reading comprehension in the verbal section. The math
problems were mainly algebra and geometry and I don't think a
calculator was allowed. There was also a writing section that involved
writing an essay; however, all the verbal and math items were
multiple-choice.
The difference between the paper and computer tests is that the paper
test has a fixed set of questions, but the computer test is dynamic.
That is, the questions you get later on in the test depend on how well
you perform on earlier questions. If you are doing well, the test will
give you more difficult questions than if you do poorly at the
beginning. I think this allows you to earn a higher score if you are
able to pass the more difficult questions, although I'm not exactly
sure how the test is scored. The main thing is this is how most of
your competitors for grad school are tested. I'm not sure, then, how
the Braille supplement works if the test questions are dynamic.
Arielle

On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> So you all are saying the self voicing test is via computer; I assume then
> it is read to you through synthesized speech of some kind.
> Maybe someone will clarify if it is currently in that format. Anyone here
> taken the GRE in the past year?
>
> Other choices are braille and large print formats. I marked my answers
> through a reader for other braille standardized tests such as the SAT, so 
> I
>
> would guess that using a reader for answers is the way it is now.
> Six hours is double time; sounds like an involved test.
> Is there reading comprehension involved? Also, is it
> mostly multiple choice? If not, what format?
>
>
> You all distinguish between paper and pencil test versus computer test.
> Does this mean the tests are actually different questions? I thought the
> only difference was that one was on the pc in a soft copy format and had a
> different order of questions than the paper based test.
>
> I can see the advantage of doing it with a reader and computer. Two of 
> them
>
> are it is scored instantly and
> may take less time.
> But I also think there would be advantages with braille such as actually
> reading the sections yourself and taking time to analyze it to answer
> questions.
>
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cynthia Bennett
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 5:33 PM
> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>
> Arielle did a great job outlining the the GRE. It is unfortunate if
> the self-voiced test is not ready, because the new GRE has been out
> for a year. In any case, I would say that waiting for it if you can
> would be worth it for the advantages like an instant score. You would
> get a braille or large print supplement with the self-voiced test. It
> would contain all of the questions. It is a hard copy duplicate of the
> computer test. All of the math graphics are in the supplement and very
> well done. There are descriptions in the self-voiced test, but you can
> imagine that being able to touch raised graphics is much more quickly
> understandable.
>
> I think you can ask for 1.5 or double time. So, with double time, you
> would get a little over 6 hours to take the test, and you can use the
> 6 hours however you want. With normal time, you would receive about 30
> minutes per section, but with double time, you don't have to allot
> double the time of each section and then start over. What I am trying
> to say is that theoretically, you could use more than double time on
> the math part if you needed it and if you could get through the verbal
> and writing in less than double those time limits. I read braille very
> well and comprehend things very easily and found that I was not rushed
> and did not need all of the double time given to me, so I wouldn't
> worry too much about whether it is enough unless you have other
> circumstances.
>
> If you do take the self-voiced test, ETS will send you a practice one.
> You can go through tutorials before beginning the test which will not
> use your test time, but I recommend knowing the keystrokes beforehand.
>
> Once I got the accommidations process started, they were approved
> quickly, but it is advisable to start a few months early. I had to
> have a signed letter from an eye doctor and another letter from the
> disabilities office at my school. ETS has to communicate with your
> testing center of choice to see if they have the right equipment, a
> computer with the right specs, so you need to allow for the time for
> these communications to take place.
>
> I bought some used Kaplan books and got a reader to help me with math
> review. Be sure you get practice materials that reflect the content of
> the new test.
>
> One thing worth mentioning is that when I came in to take the test, I
> brought headphones with me. My testing center was very hesitant, and
> they wouldn't let me use them until they called ETS. ETS did allow me
> to use headphones, but the testing center gave me a pair of theirs.
> So, if you think you might want to use headphones, I would write it in
> somewhere on your accommidations application and make sure ETS is ok
> with it and that your testing center has a pair that you can use. It
> wasn't that big of a deal, but on test day, you will probably feel
> stressed and pressured and any little mishaps can seem like bigger
> deals than they are. So take care of those things beforehand.
>
> I will reiterate what Arielle said. The ETS disability office was very
> helpful, and Ruth is easily accessible and can answer your questions.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 5/26/12, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Arielle,
>> So for the self-voicing test, how is the math section done, especially if
>> there are graphics? Are they described within the self-voiced test? I
>> just
>> thought that I would ask, because if one does not have access to the
>> graphics that a sighted person would have access to, then it may affect
>> one's score on the test. I like the idea of the computerized, self-voiced
>> test.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Misty
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:44 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I took the GRE way back in 2007 and many things have changed since
>>> then. For the most up-to-date information, I suggest contacting Ruth
>>> Loew, assistant director of disability policy at ETS, at
>>> rloew at ets.org
>>> She has been involved with NABS for a long time and is very interested
>>> in helping blind students navigate the accommodations system.
>>> I do know that you can get Braille prep materials for the verbal and
>>> math sections. You can choose to take the test using Braille, large
>>> print or through a reader. There was an accessible "self-voicing"
>>> version of the computer test that can be taken independently via
>>> computer, but I believe that since the test changed recently, we are
>>> still waiting for the new self-voicing version to be finalized and
>>> made available to test-takers.
>>> If using Braille, I believe the only way to mark your answers is with
>>> a reader, at least until the self-voicing test is ready. You are
>>> allowed to use a Perkins Brailler to write the essays for the writing
>>> section and to do scratchwork for the math section, but you will
>>> eventually need to dictate your Brailled essay to the reader.
>>> One disadvantage of the Braille test is that it is the "paper-based"
>>> test, while the reader-administered and self-voicing versions are the
>>> "computer-based" test. Nowadays most of your sighted peers applying to
>>> grad school will be taking the computer test, and also the computer
>>> test is scored instantly, whereas the paper test takes a while to be
>>> graded. However, there are obvious advantages to using Braille if you
>>> are a Braille reader. I personally think the self-voicing test is the
>>> best option, when it becomes available, as a blind test-taker can
>>> complete it independently and there is no risk of having your score
>>> affected by a reader's mistakes in recording your answers. However,
>>> each person's accommodation decision is an individual one of course.
>>> If you decide to use a reader rather than Braille to complete the
>>> test, I would suggest doing all your practice and studying with
>>> readers rather than with Braille, so you can get used to answering
>>> questions and processing the information in this way.
>>> Best,
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I might need this if I try grad school. Also, how long will the test
>>>> take
>>>> when you get extended time? What subjects are tested?
>>>> How can you mark your answers? I'd opt for braille if they can provide
>>>> it
>>>>
>>>> in
>>>>
>>>> braille. But you cannot mark in a braille test.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Reinhard Stebner
>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:31 AM
>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>>
>>>> Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the GRE
>>>> and
>>>> could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test administration
>>>> was
>>>> done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you
>>>> use
>>>> assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank you
>>>> for
>>>> your help.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
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m
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cynthia Bennett
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> 828.989.5383
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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From clb5590 at gmail.com  Sun May 27 20:53:00 2012
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 13:53:00 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <4fc2822f.65a7b60a.1ed2.ffffff9d@mx.google.com>
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com>
	<015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCp9sqjEZg=p=XWfZcMAORRQ8hST170rtbAPzDx6C3pSw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CF97A78BE094B019C0B3983F0B3B208@acerd37f251f21>
	<CACUFQdzT+7QoHTfhvZWYwd+oJXF+iDDFqx9M=axADcBWBHdNLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<11C5DE20CFEB46DAB1D02F68CC8231A5@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJDys+A4w2vdyRmV=40QVY9OrndXL3X1GqoBWzryUH61kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6273DA5F545D419D9FD8C7E94B0125EB@OwnerPC>
	<4fc2822f.65a7b60a.1ed2.ffffff9d@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CACUFQdwZhKFPDPThbLG9TOvzuM0ZX0Y1NNTf2pyjQNYy42b2xw@mail.gmail.com>

Ok, I need to clarify some things. The test is not scored differently,
and the level of difficulty is not different. The only difference in
having the self-voiced test is that the questions you receive is set
from the beginning. When someone without accommidations is taking the
computer test, the questions they receive are not set from the
beginning but probably randomly chosen from a database once the next
question's level of difficulty is chosen. Although the level of
difficulty of the next question is determined by the answer of the
current question, it is still the same scoring. I am pretty sure
different weights are given to questions with different difficulties.
So theoretically, if you kept doing poorly, then you would get easier
questions, and although you might answer more of those correctly, your
score wouldn't be disproportionately high.

Not including tests with accommidations in statistics is probably just
done to keep as many parallels as possible. I am not the research
expert by any means, but the way I see it is if there is something
different about the environment or administration, then it can't be
included with the rest of the results. I don't think this is done
because any testing agency thinks that people who need accommidations
are stupid, but to report scores together that are from tests
administered in similar environments. It is discouraging if my score
is not considered a part of the normal population of scores, but that
is kind of how statistics works. If I was running a subject in a
study, and something happened to interrupt the environment, or if
there are uninterpretable answers on their survey, or if they leave
questions blank, then we don't use their data. It doesn't mean that
they are a bad person or incapable of being a subject in the study, it
just means that their environment and data aren't uniform with the
rest. It may seem that ill completed surveys and accommidations are
apples and oranges when considering inclusion, but that is the reason
I can deduce for now.

It is not my intention to start a fierce debate. I have already stated
that I do not know all of the logistics surrounding this, but that I
have only heard this from some people. Maybe someone could further
research the topic. All I was saying is that if in fact score reports
reflect whether the scores are included in national data, and yours
are not because of needing accommidations, then it might be in your
favor to include a supplemental document with your application
explaining your disability and the alternative techniques you use to
be successful. Because you wouldn't want an admissions office to view
the score report and leave it up to them to ponder through the variety
of reasons why that might be. But I could be completely wrong. It may
not even be an issue.

And, in my experience, although GRE scores are important, you can
still have a strong application otherwise. I applied to several grad
schools, and got a couple of interviews, and I feel that the reasons
why I got interviews at some schools and didn't at others had more to
do with the content of my application as a whole and my research
interests. I do not feel like I did not get into some of the schools
because of needing acccommidations on the GRE.

Cindy

On 5/27/12, Karen Anderson <kea.anderson at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> As someone who will have to take the GRE in the near future, I was very
> encouraged when I heard that they were developing accessible tests.
> However,
> hearing that sighted test-takers are being given a different test than we
> are greatly distresses me. I realize they want to give us access to Braille
> materials, and I'm glad of that. However, with today's technology, there is
> no reason they couldn't develop a computerized exam that works with a
> Braille display. This way we could have access to Braille, while still
> taking the test our peers take.
> 	If it's true that scores are weighted differently, and that our
> scores are not counted in the statistics, then this is a form of
> discrimination.
> 	I realize things are considerably better for our generation of
> students than those who came before us. However, better does not mean
> equal.
> having electronic books, but still getting them after classes start, does
> not put us on an equal playing field. Having electronic texts that are
> poorly marked up makes searching and studying more challenging and less
> productive. I realize that in some situations we need to work harder to
> overcome some of these barriers, and I am willing to do that. However, we
> should have the opportunity to take the same test our sighted peers take,
> and to be scored in the same manner.
>
> Just my thoughts,
>
> Karen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 2:06 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>
> Arielle,
> Thanks. Yes sounds a lot like the SAT; and it seems typical for computer
> based tests to be dynamic, as you said to change with the level of
> difficulty the test taker needs.
> Which source, if any, has braille prep materials? Learning ally would be
> audio.
> It doesn't seem fair to have to dictate your essay to a scribe, but I guess
>
> that is the only way for them to read it.
> They cannot read braille.
> I had to do that with the praxis test I took; I was going to be an
> education
>
> major before I got too discouraged.
> I took Praxis I, a test that all  prospective teachers take and found it
> troublesome to dictate my essay to the scribe. We ran out of time for it
> because you know they count the time you dictate to the scribe as part of
> your test taking time. So I had less time to write my essay. Then, I had to
>
> repeat some things to the scribe since I said it too fast. Dictating
> something and having them keep up with you is a skill, and with a new
> reader
>
> scribe its kind of hard. I've done that for other tests in college but they
>
> were shorter essays.
>
> I'm glad accomodations have improved, but it still seems a bit unfair. I'm
> glad to know of the discrepancies between the paper and computer test.
>
> Ashley
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 1:30 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>
> Hi Ashley,
> Yes, at least with the old self-voicing test, it is read to you by a
> screen reader similar to JAWS and the answers are marked via computer.
> I have a friend who just took the test last month and he said that the
> self-voicing test was not yet an option, so he used a reader. However
> Ruth Loew posted a request for beta-testers for the self-voicing test
> a while ago, so hopefully it will be ready soon.
> I don't know how the content of the test has changed. When I took it
> it was very similar to the SAT. There were sentence completions,
> analogies and reading comprehension in the verbal section. The math
> problems were mainly algebra and geometry and I don't think a
> calculator was allowed. There was also a writing section that involved
> writing an essay; however, all the verbal and math items were
> multiple-choice.
> The difference between the paper and computer tests is that the paper
> test has a fixed set of questions, but the computer test is dynamic.
> That is, the questions you get later on in the test depend on how well
> you perform on earlier questions. If you are doing well, the test will
> give you more difficult questions than if you do poorly at the
> beginning. I think this allows you to earn a higher score if you are
> able to pass the more difficult questions, although I'm not exactly
> sure how the test is scored. The main thing is this is how most of
> your competitors for grad school are tested. I'm not sure, then, how
> the Braille supplement works if the test questions are dynamic.
> Arielle
>
> On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> So you all are saying the self voicing test is via computer; I assume
>> then
>> it is read to you through synthesized speech of some kind.
>> Maybe someone will clarify if it is currently in that format. Anyone here
>> taken the GRE in the past year?
>>
>> Other choices are braille and large print formats. I marked my answers
>> through a reader for other braille standardized tests such as the SAT, so
>>
>> I
>>
>> would guess that using a reader for answers is the way it is now.
>> Six hours is double time; sounds like an involved test.
>> Is there reading comprehension involved? Also, is it
>> mostly multiple choice? If not, what format?
>>
>>
>> You all distinguish between paper and pencil test versus computer test.
>> Does this mean the tests are actually different questions? I thought the
>> only difference was that one was on the pc in a soft copy format and had
>> a
>> different order of questions than the paper based test.
>>
>> I can see the advantage of doing it with a reader and computer. Two of
>> them
>>
>> are it is scored instantly and
>> may take less time.
>> But I also think there would be advantages with braille such as actually
>> reading the sections yourself and taking time to analyze it to answer
>> questions.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Ashley
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Cynthia Bennett
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 5:33 PM
>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>
>> Arielle did a great job outlining the the GRE. It is unfortunate if
>> the self-voiced test is not ready, because the new GRE has been out
>> for a year. In any case, I would say that waiting for it if you can
>> would be worth it for the advantages like an instant score. You would
>> get a braille or large print supplement with the self-voiced test. It
>> would contain all of the questions. It is a hard copy duplicate of the
>> computer test. All of the math graphics are in the supplement and very
>> well done. There are descriptions in the self-voiced test, but you can
>> imagine that being able to touch raised graphics is much more quickly
>> understandable.
>>
>> I think you can ask for 1.5 or double time. So, with double time, you
>> would get a little over 6 hours to take the test, and you can use the
>> 6 hours however you want. With normal time, you would receive about 30
>> minutes per section, but with double time, you don't have to allot
>> double the time of each section and then start over. What I am trying
>> to say is that theoretically, you could use more than double time on
>> the math part if you needed it and if you could get through the verbal
>> and writing in less than double those time limits. I read braille very
>> well and comprehend things very easily and found that I was not rushed
>> and did not need all of the double time given to me, so I wouldn't
>> worry too much about whether it is enough unless you have other
>> circumstances.
>>
>> If you do take the self-voiced test, ETS will send you a practice one.
>> You can go through tutorials before beginning the test which will not
>> use your test time, but I recommend knowing the keystrokes beforehand.
>>
>> Once I got the accommidations process started, they were approved
>> quickly, but it is advisable to start a few months early. I had to
>> have a signed letter from an eye doctor and another letter from the
>> disabilities office at my school. ETS has to communicate with your
>> testing center of choice to see if they have the right equipment, a
>> computer with the right specs, so you need to allow for the time for
>> these communications to take place.
>>
>> I bought some used Kaplan books and got a reader to help me with math
>> review. Be sure you get practice materials that reflect the content of
>> the new test.
>>
>> One thing worth mentioning is that when I came in to take the test, I
>> brought headphones with me. My testing center was very hesitant, and
>> they wouldn't let me use them until they called ETS. ETS did allow me
>> to use headphones, but the testing center gave me a pair of theirs.
>> So, if you think you might want to use headphones, I would write it in
>> somewhere on your accommidations application and make sure ETS is ok
>> with it and that your testing center has a pair that you can use. It
>> wasn't that big of a deal, but on test day, you will probably feel
>> stressed and pressured and any little mishaps can seem like bigger
>> deals than they are. So take care of those things beforehand.
>>
>> I will reiterate what Arielle said. The ETS disability office was very
>> helpful, and Ruth is easily accessible and can answer your questions.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> On 5/26/12, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Arielle,
>>> So for the self-voicing test, how is the math section done, especially
>>> if
>>> there are graphics? Are they described within the self-voiced test? I
>>> just
>>> thought that I would ask, because if one does not have access to the
>>> graphics that a sighted person would have access to, then it may affect
>>> one's score on the test. I like the idea of the computerized,
>>> self-voiced
>>> test.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Misty
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:44 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I took the GRE way back in 2007 and many things have changed since
>>>> then. For the most up-to-date information, I suggest contacting Ruth
>>>> Loew, assistant director of disability policy at ETS, at
>>>> rloew at ets.org
>>>> She has been involved with NABS for a long time and is very interested
>>>> in helping blind students navigate the accommodations system.
>>>> I do know that you can get Braille prep materials for the verbal and
>>>> math sections. You can choose to take the test using Braille, large
>>>> print or through a reader. There was an accessible "self-voicing"
>>>> version of the computer test that can be taken independently via
>>>> computer, but I believe that since the test changed recently, we are
>>>> still waiting for the new self-voicing version to be finalized and
>>>> made available to test-takers.
>>>> If using Braille, I believe the only way to mark your answers is with
>>>> a reader, at least until the self-voicing test is ready. You are
>>>> allowed to use a Perkins Brailler to write the essays for the writing
>>>> section and to do scratchwork for the math section, but you will
>>>> eventually need to dictate your Brailled essay to the reader.
>>>> One disadvantage of the Braille test is that it is the "paper-based"
>>>> test, while the reader-administered and self-voicing versions are the
>>>> "computer-based" test. Nowadays most of your sighted peers applying to
>>>> grad school will be taking the computer test, and also the computer
>>>> test is scored instantly, whereas the paper test takes a while to be
>>>> graded. However, there are obvious advantages to using Braille if you
>>>> are a Braille reader. I personally think the self-voicing test is the
>>>> best option, when it becomes available, as a blind test-taker can
>>>> complete it independently and there is no risk of having your score
>>>> affected by a reader's mistakes in recording your answers. However,
>>>> each person's accommodation decision is an individual one of course.
>>>> If you decide to use a reader rather than Braille to complete the
>>>> test, I would suggest doing all your practice and studying with
>>>> readers rather than with Braille, so you can get used to answering
>>>> questions and processing the information in this way.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I might need this if I try grad school. Also, how long will the test
>>>>> take
>>>>> when you get extended time? What subjects are tested?
>>>>> How can you mark your answers? I'd opt for braille if they can provide
>>>>> it
>>>>>
>>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>> braille. But you cannot mark in a braille test.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Reinhard Stebner
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:31 AM
>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>>>
>>>>> Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the GRE
>>>>> and
>>>>> could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test
>>>>> administration
>>>>> was
>>>>> done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you
>>>>> use
>>>>> assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank
>>>>> you
>>>>> for
>>>>> your help.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
> net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
> m
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Cynthia Bennett
>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> 828.989.5383
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
> net
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
> net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


-- 
Cynthia Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383


From liamskitten at gmail.com  Sun May 27 21:05:37 2012
From: liamskitten at gmail.com (Courtney Stover)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 16:05:37 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <CACUFQdwZhKFPDPThbLG9TOvzuM0ZX0Y1NNTf2pyjQNYy42b2xw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com>
	<015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCp9sqjEZg=p=XWfZcMAORRQ8hST170rtbAPzDx6C3pSw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CF97A78BE094B019C0B3983F0B3B208@acerd37f251f21>
	<CACUFQdzT+7QoHTfhvZWYwd+oJXF+iDDFqx9M=axADcBWBHdNLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<11C5DE20CFEB46DAB1D02F68CC8231A5@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJDys+A4w2vdyRmV=40QVY9OrndXL3X1GqoBWzryUH61kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6273DA5F545D419D9FD8C7E94B0125EB@OwnerPC>
	<4fc2822f.65a7b60a.1ed2.ffffff9d@mx.google.com>
	<CACUFQdwZhKFPDPThbLG9TOvzuM0ZX0Y1NNTf2pyjQNYy42b2xw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALUTO91+MGHaSugxVHKo7jRYJ2_YK7atDVyWocF0uX2jkR2yrQ@mail.gmail.com>

Cindy,

I'd just like to quickly clarify something in your last message.
Essentially, as I'm reading it, what you're saying is that with the
Self-Voicing GRE, we still recieve the same service as our sighted
peers in terms of the questions difficulty level changing according to
your earlier performance.  The only difference is that the questions
included in each difficulty level are predetermined?
Courtney


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Sun May 27 21:15:29 2012
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 14:15:29 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <CALUTO91+MGHaSugxVHKo7jRYJ2_YK7atDVyWocF0uX2jkR2yrQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com>
	<015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJCp9sqjEZg=p=XWfZcMAORRQ8hST170rtbAPzDx6C3pSw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7CF97A78BE094B019C0B3983F0B3B208@acerd37f251f21>
	<CACUFQdzT+7QoHTfhvZWYwd+oJXF+iDDFqx9M=axADcBWBHdNLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<11C5DE20CFEB46DAB1D02F68CC8231A5@OwnerPC>
	<CALAYQJDys+A4w2vdyRmV=40QVY9OrndXL3X1GqoBWzryUH61kg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6273DA5F545D419D9FD8C7E94B0125EB@OwnerPC>
	<4fc2822f.65a7b60a.1ed2.ffffff9d@mx.google.com>
	<CACUFQdwZhKFPDPThbLG9TOvzuM0ZX0Y1NNTf2pyjQNYy42b2xw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALUTO91+MGHaSugxVHKo7jRYJ2_YK7atDVyWocF0uX2jkR2yrQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACUFQdw0XqsGZQHLShZVyZzmazyfkMDGdFzAA7k9Es0mLc08zw@mail.gmail.com>

Yes. The questions are certainly as difficult. They reflected what I
learned in the practice materials. I really believe that the questions
are on par. I'm not sure why the self-voiced test has to have
predetermined questions, but I really feel that in comparison to other
educational agencies, ETS has done a great job with accommidations.

I am emailing Ruth and asking her personally about the score reports,
and I will write again with the actual answer when I hear from her.

Cindy

On 5/27/12, Courtney Stover <liamskitten at gmail.com> wrote:
> Cindy,
>
> I'd just like to quickly clarify something in your last message.
> Essentially, as I'm reading it, what you're saying is that with the
> Self-Voicing GRE, we still recieve the same service as our sighted
> peers in terms of the questions difficulty level changing according to
> your earlier performance.  The only difference is that the questions
> included in each difficulty level are predetermined?
> Courtney
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cynthia Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sun May 27 22:15:30 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 18:15:30 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <4fc2822f.65a7b60a.1ed2.ffffff9d@mx.google.com>
References: <05e101cd3b4c$2ca9ef20$85fdcd60$@yahoo.com><015ABEEADA734D459FE598A0858FF5B1@OwnerPC><CALAYQJCp9sqjEZg=p=XWfZcMAORRQ8hST170rtbAPzDx6C3pSw@mail.gmail.com><7CF97A78BE094B019C0B3983F0B3B208@acerd37f251f21><CACUFQdzT+7QoHTfhvZWYwd+oJXF+iDDFqx9M=axADcBWBHdNLg@mail.gmail.com><11C5DE20CFEB46DAB1D02F68CC8231A5@OwnerPC><CALAYQJDys+A4w2vdyRmV=40QVY9OrndXL3X1GqoBWzryUH61kg@mail.gmail.com><6273DA5F545D419D9FD8C7E94B0125EB@OwnerPC>
	<4fc2822f.65a7b60a.1ed2.ffffff9d@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <75B4FD6496C2402E848FC23A5770B2B0@OwnerPC>

Karen,
My sentaments exactly.  I knew the paper version was different than the 
computerized version.
Now I know how. Which school are you going to for grad school?
No while accomodations have improved, we are still not with an equal 
experience. Nor are we in college IMO. If my sighted classmates have a 
textbook in class to browse during a discussion and I cannot, I have to rely 
on my notes and memory, its an advantage to them. If I get a textbook a week 
or two late,
then its not fair to me either.
This goes to show us that our test experience is never equal. I'd probably 
opt  to do the braille exam because I'm more comfortable reading it if I'm 
tested on comprehension and sentence completion. I can go over it and fill 
in the blanks mentally and see what answer fits it correctly. I cannot as 
easily do this orally with a reader. But there are obvious drawbacks. 
Another unfair thing I see is that you have to take up your test time 
dictating the essay part to your reader/scribe. It would be ideal if they 
had someone to transcribe it at ETS.
This way you could actually use the double time composing your essay, rather 
than half of it dictating it to a scribe!
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Karen Anderson
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 3:36 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE

Hi all,

As someone who will have to take the GRE in the near future, I was very
encouraged when I heard that they were developing accessible tests. However,
hearing that sighted test-takers are being given a different test than we
are greatly distresses me. I realize they want to give us access to Braille
materials, and I'm glad of that. However, with today's technology, there is
no reason they couldn't develop a computerized exam that works with a
Braille display. This way we could have access to Braille, while still
taking the test our peers take.
If it's true that scores are weighted differently, and that our
scores are not counted in the statistics, then this is a form of
discrimination.
I realize things are considerably better for our generation of
students than those who came before us. However, better does not mean equal.
having electronic books, but still getting them after classes start, does
not put us on an equal playing field. Having electronic texts that are
poorly marked up makes searching and studying more challenging and less
productive. I realize that in some situations we need to work harder to
overcome some of these barriers, and I am willing to do that. However, we
should have the opportunity to take the same test our sighted peers take,
and to be scored in the same manner.

Just my thoughts,

Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 2:06 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE

Arielle,
Thanks. Yes sounds a lot like the SAT; and it seems typical for computer
based tests to be dynamic, as you said to change with the level of
difficulty the test taker needs.
Which source, if any, has braille prep materials? Learning ally would be
audio.
It doesn't seem fair to have to dictate your essay to a scribe, but I guess
that is the only way for them to read it.
They cannot read braille.
I had to do that with the praxis test I took; I was going to be an education

major before I got too discouraged.
I took Praxis I, a test that all  prospective teachers take and found it
troublesome to dictate my essay to the scribe. We ran out of time for it
because you know they count the time you dictate to the scribe as part of
your test taking time. So I had less time to write my essay. Then, I had to
repeat some things to the scribe since I said it too fast. Dictating
something and having them keep up with you is a skill, and with a new reader

scribe its kind of hard. I've done that for other tests in college but they
were shorter essays.

I'm glad accomodations have improved, but it still seems a bit unfair. I'm
glad to know of the discrepancies between the paper and computer test.

Ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 1:30 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE

Hi Ashley,
Yes, at least with the old self-voicing test, it is read to you by a
screen reader similar to JAWS and the answers are marked via computer.
I have a friend who just took the test last month and he said that the
self-voicing test was not yet an option, so he used a reader. However
Ruth Loew posted a request for beta-testers for the self-voicing test
a while ago, so hopefully it will be ready soon.
I don't know how the content of the test has changed. When I took it
it was very similar to the SAT. There were sentence completions,
analogies and reading comprehension in the verbal section. The math
problems were mainly algebra and geometry and I don't think a
calculator was allowed. There was also a writing section that involved
writing an essay; however, all the verbal and math items were
multiple-choice.
The difference between the paper and computer tests is that the paper
test has a fixed set of questions, but the computer test is dynamic.
That is, the questions you get later on in the test depend on how well
you perform on earlier questions. If you are doing well, the test will
give you more difficult questions than if you do poorly at the
beginning. I think this allows you to earn a higher score if you are
able to pass the more difficult questions, although I'm not exactly
sure how the test is scored. The main thing is this is how most of
your competitors for grad school are tested. I'm not sure, then, how
the Braille supplement works if the test questions are dynamic.
Arielle

On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi,
> So you all are saying the self voicing test is via computer; I assume then
> it is read to you through synthesized speech of some kind.
> Maybe someone will clarify if it is currently in that format. Anyone here
> taken the GRE in the past year?
>
> Other choices are braille and large print formats. I marked my answers
> through a reader for other braille standardized tests such as the SAT, so
> I
>
> would guess that using a reader for answers is the way it is now.
> Six hours is double time; sounds like an involved test.
> Is there reading comprehension involved? Also, is it
> mostly multiple choice? If not, what format?
>
>
> You all distinguish between paper and pencil test versus computer test.
> Does this mean the tests are actually different questions? I thought the
> only difference was that one was on the pc in a soft copy format and had a
> different order of questions than the paper based test.
>
> I can see the advantage of doing it with a reader and computer. Two of
> them
>
> are it is scored instantly and
> may take less time.
> But I also think there would be advantages with braille such as actually
> reading the sections yourself and taking time to analyze it to answer
> questions.
>
> Thanks.
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cynthia Bennett
> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 5:33 PM
> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>
> Arielle did a great job outlining the the GRE. It is unfortunate if
> the self-voiced test is not ready, because the new GRE has been out
> for a year. In any case, I would say that waiting for it if you can
> would be worth it for the advantages like an instant score. You would
> get a braille or large print supplement with the self-voiced test. It
> would contain all of the questions. It is a hard copy duplicate of the
> computer test. All of the math graphics are in the supplement and very
> well done. There are descriptions in the self-voiced test, but you can
> imagine that being able to touch raised graphics is much more quickly
> understandable.
>
> I think you can ask for 1.5 or double time. So, with double time, you
> would get a little over 6 hours to take the test, and you can use the
> 6 hours however you want. With normal time, you would receive about 30
> minutes per section, but with double time, you don't have to allot
> double the time of each section and then start over. What I am trying
> to say is that theoretically, you could use more than double time on
> the math part if you needed it and if you could get through the verbal
> and writing in less than double those time limits. I read braille very
> well and comprehend things very easily and found that I was not rushed
> and did not need all of the double time given to me, so I wouldn't
> worry too much about whether it is enough unless you have other
> circumstances.
>
> If you do take the self-voiced test, ETS will send you a practice one.
> You can go through tutorials before beginning the test which will not
> use your test time, but I recommend knowing the keystrokes beforehand.
>
> Once I got the accommidations process started, they were approved
> quickly, but it is advisable to start a few months early. I had to
> have a signed letter from an eye doctor and another letter from the
> disabilities office at my school. ETS has to communicate with your
> testing center of choice to see if they have the right equipment, a
> computer with the right specs, so you need to allow for the time for
> these communications to take place.
>
> I bought some used Kaplan books and got a reader to help me with math
> review. Be sure you get practice materials that reflect the content of
> the new test.
>
> One thing worth mentioning is that when I came in to take the test, I
> brought headphones with me. My testing center was very hesitant, and
> they wouldn't let me use them until they called ETS. ETS did allow me
> to use headphones, but the testing center gave me a pair of theirs.
> So, if you think you might want to use headphones, I would write it in
> somewhere on your accommidations application and make sure ETS is ok
> with it and that your testing center has a pair that you can use. It
> wasn't that big of a deal, but on test day, you will probably feel
> stressed and pressured and any little mishaps can seem like bigger
> deals than they are. So take care of those things beforehand.
>
> I will reiterate what Arielle said. The ETS disability office was very
> helpful, and Ruth is easily accessible and can answer your questions.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 5/26/12, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Arielle,
>> So for the self-voicing test, how is the math section done, especially if
>> there are graphics? Are they described within the self-voiced test? I
>> just
>> thought that I would ask, because if one does not have access to the
>> graphics that a sighted person would have access to, then it may affect
>> one's score on the test. I like the idea of the computerized, self-voiced
>> test.
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Misty
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:44 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> I took the GRE way back in 2007 and many things have changed since
>>> then. For the most up-to-date information, I suggest contacting Ruth
>>> Loew, assistant director of disability policy at ETS, at
>>> rloew at ets.org
>>> She has been involved with NABS for a long time and is very interested
>>> in helping blind students navigate the accommodations system.
>>> I do know that you can get Braille prep materials for the verbal and
>>> math sections. You can choose to take the test using Braille, large
>>> print or through a reader. There was an accessible "self-voicing"
>>> version of the computer test that can be taken independently via
>>> computer, but I believe that since the test changed recently, we are
>>> still waiting for the new self-voicing version to be finalized and
>>> made available to test-takers.
>>> If using Braille, I believe the only way to mark your answers is with
>>> a reader, at least until the self-voicing test is ready. You are
>>> allowed to use a Perkins Brailler to write the essays for the writing
>>> section and to do scratchwork for the math section, but you will
>>> eventually need to dictate your Brailled essay to the reader.
>>> One disadvantage of the Braille test is that it is the "paper-based"
>>> test, while the reader-administered and self-voicing versions are the
>>> "computer-based" test. Nowadays most of your sighted peers applying to
>>> grad school will be taking the computer test, and also the computer
>>> test is scored instantly, whereas the paper test takes a while to be
>>> graded. However, there are obvious advantages to using Braille if you
>>> are a Braille reader. I personally think the self-voicing test is the
>>> best option, when it becomes available, as a blind test-taker can
>>> complete it independently and there is no risk of having your score
>>> affected by a reader's mistakes in recording your answers. However,
>>> each person's accommodation decision is an individual one of course.
>>> If you decide to use a reader rather than Braille to complete the
>>> test, I would suggest doing all your practice and studying with
>>> readers rather than with Braille, so you can get used to answering
>>> questions and processing the information in this way.
>>> Best,
>>> Arielle
>>>
>>> On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> I might need this if I try grad school. Also, how long will the test
>>>> take
>>>> when you get extended time? What subjects are tested?
>>>> How can you mark your answers? I'd opt for braille if they can provide
>>>> it
>>>>
>>>> in
>>>>
>>>> braille. But you cannot mark in a braille test.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Reinhard Stebner
>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:31 AM
>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>>
>>>> Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the GRE
>>>> and
>>>> could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test administration
>>>> was
>>>> done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you
>>>> use
>>>> assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank you
>>>> for
>>>> your help.
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mistydbradley%40gmail.co
m
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cynthia Bennett
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> 828.989.5383
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.
net


_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Mon May 28 02:55:02 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 22:55:02 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] convention agenda posted
Message-ID: <000f01cd3c7d$481ad8f0$d8508ad0$@gmail.com>

Hello all,

 

Just an FYI that, in case you haven't seen it already, the agenda for our
2012 national convention has been posted to all NFB lists. The text of the
agenda is contained in the message body, so if you want to save it to your
computer, you can copy and paste the message into a document which you can
then save on your computer, Braille notetaker, or other device. Of course,
you can also visit www.nfb.org to download the agenda in Microsoft Word
format. Just thought I would alert you of this if you haven't seen the email
already.

 

Thanks,

 

Chris


From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Mon May 28 13:55:58 2012
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 06:55:58 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Nabs Needs Your Help at National Convention
In-Reply-To: <CAEwUdjMeNnYTAa2A-Nr3Cs7Gzz1otTvdwMPnkRTqO5ZAq=E+Pg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEwUdjMeNnYTAa2A-Nr3Cs7Gzz1otTvdwMPnkRTqO5ZAq=E+Pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEwUdjNWW2z3=mmJ-vyRXFNrTJejhAQyq20HfNP8u+a3Pk2oDw@mail.gmail.com>

  As you all know, the National association of blind students is
planning a lot of exciting things at national convention. What you may
not know however is that we as a board can’t do all of it ourselves.
So we would very much appreciate your help in making the nabs
activities a success this year!
 Where we would most appreciate your assistance is in two areas:
1.  Assistance in staffing the nabs table located in the exhibit hall.
 Here you will be partnered up with a nabs board member selling   nabs
items and handing out nabs literature.  The remaining  schedule for
tabling looks
like this:
 Sunday, July 1:
Shift 3. 3:00p.m. – 5:00 p.m.
Monday, July 2:
Shift 4:  8:30 a.m. – 11:00 a.m.
Shift 6: 1:00 p.m. – 3:00 p.m.
Shift 7: 3:00 p.m. – 5:00p.m.
Tuesday, July 3:
Shift 8: 12 noon – 1:45 p.m.
 Shift 9: 7:00p.m. – 9:00 p.m.
Wednesday, July 4:
Shift 11: 6:00p.m. – 8:30 p.m.

As you can see, the shifts are filling up, so if you contact me with your
preference, I will be more than happy to get you scheduled in!

2. Staffing the nabs Monte Carlo night fund raiser. This is a great
opportunity to work shoulder to shoulder with us in putting together
one of our most successful events that we do.  For this we will need:
 Individuals who can work an early shift (7:00 p.m. - 9:30 p.m.  Those
individuals will be asked to either
a.      Marshal.
b.      Set up for the event
c.      Deal card games( blackjack, poker, holdemand other such games)
 We will also need Late shift workers (9:30 p.m. – 12:00 a.m.)  Those
individuals would be asked to:
a.      deal card games (blackjack, poker, holdem and other such games)
b.      Assist with event clean- up and playing chip counting.

Please let me know what shift(s) you are interested in working
(exhibit hall, Monte Carlo or both).  Also please supply a contact
phone number where you can be reached during convention.   If you are
interested in working Monte Carlo, please let me know what job you
would like to take on, if you would like to deal and what games you
would like to deal (blackjack, poker, holdem or other such games).
 This is a great opportunity for you to meet the nabs board, and us to
get to know you. As well, this is an equally great opportunity for you
to meet a lot of new people and have some fun at the same time.
 Please contact me if interested.
 I can be contacted at:
dsmithnfb at gmail.com

 Thank you   so much for your interest and I look forward to hearing
from you all real soon
 And of course, see you in Dallas!!!
 Best,
Darian



-- 
Darian Smith
2nd Vice President,
 National Association of Blind Students

"To dream what is possible and to put oneself in service of that dream is the
formula
for a life well lived."

- Dr. Peter Benson


From rloew at ETS.ORG  Mon May 28 13:59:31 2012
From: rloew at ETS.ORG (Loew, Ruth)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 06:59:31 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
Message-ID: <216E26F886846C4291CFEB500A05DAF80D11413169@VA3DIAXVS9E1.RED001.local>

Hi, everybody.  I'm sorry I've been slow to respond.  I was at a BANA meeting last week, and now I'm on vacation.  For most of this week, I'm going to be accessing email primarily via a mobile device (BlackBerry) that doesn't give me very good access to long emails, such as listserv digests.  So if you have an urgent question about the GRE (or anything else related to ETS testing), please email me offlist at rloew at ets.org<mailto:rloew at ets.org>.  I can read short individual emails much more easily than the listserv.  Anything that's less urgent, I'll answer once I'm back in the office (June 4 and thereafter).  And I'll be at Convention all week.

You've asked some great and complicated questions about the GRE General Test.  Here are answers to some of them:

1.      The self-voicing test is still available.  It is true that right now, it's still a self-voicing version of the "old" GRE, the one that was offered until the revised GRE went live late last summer.  But scores are statistically converted to the new scale, so there's no way for grad schools to know that you took the self-voicing test (or any other accommodation, for that matter).  For more information on score conversion, see http://www.ets.org/gre/revised_general/scores/how.
2.      The self-voicing version of the revised GRE General Test is being created now.  I'm not sure of the exact time frame; I believe the goal is to have the practice test and tutorial ready sometime this summer and the test itself soon thereafter.  When I have firm dates, I'll let you know.
3.      The "old" GRE was dynamic in the way Arielle described: Questions were selected based on performance on previous questions.  The revised GRE, however, is much less dynamic in that sense.  After a certain point in the Verbal section, and again at some point in the Quant (math), there's a branching to easy, medium, or high difficulty questions, based on performance; but that's it.  So there's less difference between the "static" test formats (self-voicing, braille, large print, reader's script, recorded audio) and the standard computer-based test than was formerly the case.
4.      In the self-voicing test, and also in recorded audio and reader's script, the figures are fully described, and tactile or enlarged graphics (your choice) are provided.
5.      Here's some information on accessible practice materials for the GRE General Test: http://www.ets.org/gre/revised_general/prepare/disabilities.  If you need more information, or want to request specific practice materials, please contact Nora Hallenbeck: nhallenbeck at ets.org<mailto:nhallenbeck at ets.org>.  She's a customer service representative with a lot of experience with blind and low-vision test takers, and she's responsible for shipping hard-copy GRE practice materials.

I hope this is helpful.  Feel free to contact me off-list or after my vacation.  If there's demand, I'd be happy to arrange an informal Q & A session at Convention or by phone.

Enjoy the holiday weekend, at least what's left of it!

Ruth C. Loew, Ph.D.
Assistant Director
Office of Disability Policy, ETS
phone: 609-683-2984
fax: 609-683-2220



From clb5590 at gmail.com  Mon May 28 17:50:40 2012
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 10:50:40 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
In-Reply-To: <216E26F886846C4291CFEB500A05DAF80D11413169@VA3DIAXVS9E1.RED001.local>
References: <216E26F886846C4291CFEB500A05DAF80D11413169@VA3DIAXVS9E1.RED001.local>
Message-ID: <CACUFQdy0u5kzn+FcaN1kJqwm3GPWWTWk4G_VSyBy_6kNUsKH4Q@mail.gmail.com>

I'm glad Ruth was able to clear some things up. I'm sorry I gave wrong
information. One thing she didn't quite mention in her message to the
list but that she mentioned in her email to me is an obvious point
that we should have picked up on. If ETS provides a hard-copy
supplement which is advantageous especially for the tactile graphics,
then all the questions have to be predetermined. So I personally
prefer this so I can have the graphics to look at.

Cindy

On 5/28/12, Loew, Ruth <rloew at ets.org> wrote:
> Hi, everybody.  I'm sorry I've been slow to respond.  I was at a BANA
> meeting last week, and now I'm on vacation.  For most of this week, I'm
> going to be accessing email primarily via a mobile device (BlackBerry) that
> doesn't give me very good access to long emails, such as listserv digests.
> So if you have an urgent question about the GRE (or anything else related to
> ETS testing), please email me offlist at
> rloew at ets.org<mailto:rloew at ets.org>.  I can read short individual emails
> much more easily than the listserv.  Anything that's less urgent, I'll
> answer once I'm back in the office (June 4 and thereafter).  And I'll be at
> Convention all week.
>
> You've asked some great and complicated questions about the GRE General
> Test.  Here are answers to some of them:
>
> 1.      The self-voicing test is still available.  It is true that right
> now, it's still a self-voicing version of the "old" GRE, the one that was
> offered until the revised GRE went live late last summer.  But scores are
> statistically converted to the new scale, so there's no way for grad schools
> to know that you took the self-voicing test (or any other accommodation, for
> that matter).  For more information on score conversion, see
> http://www.ets.org/gre/revised_general/scores/how.
> 2.      The self-voicing version of the revised GRE General Test is being
> created now.  I'm not sure of the exact time frame; I believe the goal is to
> have the practice test and tutorial ready sometime this summer and the test
> itself soon thereafter.  When I have firm dates, I'll let you know.
> 3.      The "old" GRE was dynamic in the way Arielle described: Questions
> were selected based on performance on previous questions.  The revised GRE,
> however, is much less dynamic in that sense.  After a certain point in the
> Verbal section, and again at some point in the Quant (math), there's a
> branching to easy, medium, or high difficulty questions, based on
> performance; but that's it.  So there's less difference between the "static"
> test formats (self-voicing, braille, large print, reader's script, recorded
> audio) and the standard computer-based test than was formerly the case.
> 4.      In the self-voicing test, and also in recorded audio and reader's
> script, the figures are fully described, and tactile or enlarged graphics
> (your choice) are provided.
> 5.      Here's some information on accessible practice materials for the GRE
> General Test: http://www.ets.org/gre/revised_general/prepare/disabilities.
> If you need more information, or want to request specific practice
> materials, please contact Nora Hallenbeck:
> nhallenbeck at ets.org<mailto:nhallenbeck at ets.org>.  She's a customer service
> representative with a lot of experience with blind and low-vision test
> takers, and she's responsible for shipping hard-copy GRE practice
> materials.
>
> I hope this is helpful.  Feel free to contact me off-list or after my
> vacation.  If there's demand, I'd be happy to arrange an informal Q & A
> session at Convention or by phone.
>
> Enjoy the holiday weekend, at least what's left of it!
>
> Ruth C. Loew, Ph.D.
> Assistant Director
> Office of Disability Policy, ETS
> phone: 609-683-2984
> fax: 609-683-2220
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cynthia Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383


From anthony at olivero.us  Mon May 28 18:47:39 2012
From: anthony at olivero.us (Tony Olivero)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 13:47:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention Agenda in Calendar Formats
Message-ID: <CALQ-rrNrADd3GY-DAMJisgHohUqUgZgLpSsiPCakmYLTYgg+wQ@mail.gmail.com>

All:

For those of you who would like to use the convention agenda in
something other than Microsoft Word, here are a few different formats
that I created after putting all the events on a Google Calendar:

iCal (for adding to your Google Calendar, Outlook, or other calendar
program): http://j.mp/LYvrXo
HTML (view in your browser): http://j.mp/LCiH28
Microsoft Excel: http://j.mp/JIWoxN

you can use the iCal link if you use a Google Calendar, or a device
like an iPhone or iPad that supports it, to add the calendar to your
mobile device. If you are using Google Calendar in a web browser,
adding the ical feed will allow you to toggle on and off the display
of the agenda. You can also copy events directly to your calendar, and
not sync the Agenda to your mobile device, but view it in the browser
if you find you need to see what else is happening in addition to your
own plans.

For those of you using iDevices, it is best if you have your google
account added as a Microsoft Exchange account, not a Google Account (I
know, it seems strange, but this will allow you to sync mail,
contacts, and calendars between your phone and Google without using
another app). Once you have done this, you can go to
http://m.google.com/sync (from your phone) to control which items are
synced to your phone.

I know some of this may be confusing if you haven't done it before, so
if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'll certainly try to
help.

Also, be aware that the Texas affiliate has placed the entire agenda,
in an HTML file suitable for computers, mobile phones or notetakers,
on their website at http://j.mp/LMtElc

Tony


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon May 28 19:23:02 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 14:23:02 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention Agenda in Calendar Formats
In-Reply-To: <CALQ-rrNrADd3GY-DAMJisgHohUqUgZgLpSsiPCakmYLTYgg+wQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALQ-rrNrADd3GY-DAMJisgHohUqUgZgLpSsiPCakmYLTYgg+wQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOuPxDOXxvqQyt0zW8WKkv7b0mNdPTmw5Aboft8euYpWng@mail.gmail.com>

I found the agenda, yesterday!
Thanks!
BTW, Tony, your Website won't work for me.
it says, "Page has no links.
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/28/12, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:
> All:
>
> For those of you who would like to use the convention agenda in
> something other than Microsoft Word, here are a few different formats
> that I created after putting all the events on a Google Calendar:
>
> iCal (for adding to your Google Calendar, Outlook, or other calendar
> program): http://j.mp/LYvrXo
> HTML (view in your browser): http://j.mp/LCiH28
> Microsoft Excel: http://j.mp/JIWoxN
>
> you can use the iCal link if you use a Google Calendar, or a device
> like an iPhone or iPad that supports it, to add the calendar to your
> mobile device. If you are using Google Calendar in a web browser,
> adding the ical feed will allow you to toggle on and off the display
> of the agenda. You can also copy events directly to your calendar, and
> not sync the Agenda to your mobile device, but view it in the browser
> if you find you need to see what else is happening in addition to your
> own plans.
>
> For those of you using iDevices, it is best if you have your google
> account added as a Microsoft Exchange account, not a Google Account (I
> know, it seems strange, but this will allow you to sync mail,
> contacts, and calendars between your phone and Google without using
> another app). Once you have done this, you can go to
> http://m.google.com/sync (from your phone) to control which items are
> synced to your phone.
>
> I know some of this may be confusing if you haven't done it before, so
> if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'll certainly try to
> help.
>
> Also, be aware that the Texas affiliate has placed the entire agenda,
> in an HTML file suitable for computers, mobile phones or notetakers,
> on their website at http://j.mp/LMtElc
>
> Tony
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From anthony at olivero.us  Mon May 28 21:15:56 2012
From: anthony at olivero.us (Tony Olivero)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 16:15:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention Agenda in Calendar Formats
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOuPxDOXxvqQyt0zW8WKkv7b0mNdPTmw5Aboft8euYpWng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALQ-rrNrADd3GY-DAMJisgHohUqUgZgLpSsiPCakmYLTYgg+wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuPxDOXxvqQyt0zW8WKkv7b0mNdPTmw5Aboft8euYpWng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALQ-rrO+7XvNYioeinJ9s9OH8fu5GeB0mnodBNqTziqp8k1Gxg@mail.gmail.com>

Joshua,

Which one did you click on? There technically are no links in the
Google Calendar HTML view. Find "agenda" and press enter on that, then
press the "next period" button until it shows 6/30.

One thing to remember, not all pages will say there are links, but
there will still be content. A lot of pages that have dynamic content
use JavaScript to make things happen. There aren't always links, but
text is still "clickable" (or in the case of a JAWS user, activated by
presing ENTER on it).

Tony

On 5/28/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> I found the agenda, yesterday!
> Thanks!
> BTW, Tony, your Website won't work for me.
> it says, "Page has no links.
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/28/12, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:
>> All:
>>
>> For those of you who would like to use the convention agenda in
>> something other than Microsoft Word, here are a few different formats
>> that I created after putting all the events on a Google Calendar:
>>
>> iCal (for adding to your Google Calendar, Outlook, or other calendar
>> program): http://j.mp/LYvrXo
>> HTML (view in your browser): http://j.mp/LCiH28
>> Microsoft Excel: http://j.mp/JIWoxN
>>
>> you can use the iCal link if you use a Google Calendar, or a device
>> like an iPhone or iPad that supports it, to add the calendar to your
>> mobile device. If you are using Google Calendar in a web browser,
>> adding the ical feed will allow you to toggle on and off the display
>> of the agenda. You can also copy events directly to your calendar, and
>> not sync the Agenda to your mobile device, but view it in the browser
>> if you find you need to see what else is happening in addition to your
>> own plans.
>>
>> For those of you using iDevices, it is best if you have your google
>> account added as a Microsoft Exchange account, not a Google Account (I
>> know, it seems strange, but this will allow you to sync mail,
>> contacts, and calendars between your phone and Google without using
>> another app). Once you have done this, you can go to
>> http://m.google.com/sync (from your phone) to control which items are
>> synced to your phone.
>>
>> I know some of this may be confusing if you haven't done it before, so
>> if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'll certainly try to
>> help.
>>
>> Also, be aware that the Texas affiliate has placed the entire agenda,
>> in an HTML file suitable for computers, mobile phones or notetakers,
>> on their website at http://j.mp/LMtElc
>>
>> Tony
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us
>


From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Mon May 28 21:20:15 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 16:20:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention Agenda in Calendar Formats
In-Reply-To: <CALQ-rrO+7XvNYioeinJ9s9OH8fu5GeB0mnodBNqTziqp8k1Gxg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALQ-rrNrADd3GY-DAMJisgHohUqUgZgLpSsiPCakmYLTYgg+wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAO83KOuPxDOXxvqQyt0zW8WKkv7b0mNdPTmw5Aboft8euYpWng@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALQ-rrO+7XvNYioeinJ9s9OH8fu5GeB0mnodBNqTziqp8k1Gxg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOug8E4JypbYOCXvO-uNSvgYxvpt7txtGS0mXm2q2WfcJw@mail.gmail.com>

Since this is your personal site, I'll E-mail you off list.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/28/12, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:
> Joshua,
>
> Which one did you click on? There technically are no links in the
> Google Calendar HTML view. Find "agenda" and press enter on that, then
> press the "next period" button until it shows 6/30.
>
> One thing to remember, not all pages will say there are links, but
> there will still be content. A lot of pages that have dynamic content
> use JavaScript to make things happen. There aren't always links, but
> text is still "clickable" (or in the case of a JAWS user, activated by
> presing ENTER on it).
>
> Tony
>
> On 5/28/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> I found the agenda, yesterday!
>> Thanks!
>> BTW, Tony, your Website won't work for me.
>> it says, "Page has no links.
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/28/12, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:
>>> All:
>>>
>>> For those of you who would like to use the convention agenda in
>>> something other than Microsoft Word, here are a few different formats
>>> that I created after putting all the events on a Google Calendar:
>>>
>>> iCal (for adding to your Google Calendar, Outlook, or other calendar
>>> program): http://j.mp/LYvrXo
>>> HTML (view in your browser): http://j.mp/LCiH28
>>> Microsoft Excel: http://j.mp/JIWoxN
>>>
>>> you can use the iCal link if you use a Google Calendar, or a device
>>> like an iPhone or iPad that supports it, to add the calendar to your
>>> mobile device. If you are using Google Calendar in a web browser,
>>> adding the ical feed will allow you to toggle on and off the display
>>> of the agenda. You can also copy events directly to your calendar, and
>>> not sync the Agenda to your mobile device, but view it in the browser
>>> if you find you need to see what else is happening in addition to your
>>> own plans.
>>>
>>> For those of you using iDevices, it is best if you have your google
>>> account added as a Microsoft Exchange account, not a Google Account (I
>>> know, it seems strange, but this will allow you to sync mail,
>>> contacts, and calendars between your phone and Google without using
>>> another app). Once you have done this, you can go to
>>> http://m.google.com/sync (from your phone) to control which items are
>>> synced to your phone.
>>>
>>> I know some of this may be confusing if you haven't done it before, so
>>> if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'll certainly try to
>>> help.
>>>
>>> Also, be aware that the Texas affiliate has placed the entire agenda,
>>> in an HTML file suitable for computers, mobile phones or notetakers,
>>> on their website at http://j.mp/LMtElc
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com  Tue May 29 01:52:48 2012
From: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 21:52:48 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
In-Reply-To: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD475@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <6CE049279B97194491C46E008D889243EFD475@CH1PRD0510MB355.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <001701cd3d3d$c0b996a0$422cc3e0$@gmail.com>

Hi Justin and everyone,

Sorry for the late posting on this thread; I have gotten behind on my emails
lately due to end-of-the-year schoolwork. Ah, the joy of finals... not!
<Smile!>

Justin, I think you hit the nail on the head. This device reminds me of that
extra-sensory cane which was posted about and discussed on the list some
time ago. The cane would, according to the designers, help us improve our
social skills by "leading" us to a person we know via some kind of high-tech
computer. These kinds of things come up often; just read some of the banquet
speeches at our past national conventions. In fact, if you ever want a good
laugh, read or listen to some of Dr. Jernigan's old banquet speeches, and
you will see the stupidity of the public when it comes to blindness!

Don't get me wrong here, I think these researchers had well-meaning
intentions, as do many sighted people who develop high-tech gadgets and do
other things which harm us more than help us. Now, this raises the question:
if these researchers and others have well-meaning intentions, why do their
developments harm us rather than help us? The answer, I believe, is simple:
because they generate a lot of harmful misconceptions about blindness among
the sighted public! Also, the more media attension these kinds of gadgets
receive, the more it harms us. Why? Because the media, despite all the
complaints of most of the public about it to the contrary, is a big factor
in molding public thought, and if the media has misconceptions about
blindness which they put out to the public, it's going to create new
misconceptions among the public at large, or reinforce the old ones. I think
the biggest thing these researchers didn't do was consult with the blind
ourselves by writing to organizations such as the NFB to see if we really
need this device. The only information they are getting is from the public,
and they already have misconceptions.

Just my thoughts,

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Justin Salisbury
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 6:13 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

Philosophy Discussion Time

I just caught this story on the local news, and I want to hear people's
opinions of it.  There are many different versions of this news story, but
here's a link to a page with a video and text article:

http://wearecentralpa.com/fulltext-healthcast?nxd_id=369932

Feel free to find other versions of this story using a simple search engine.

When I heard that Mark couldn't wait for the day that he could navigate his
own home independently with a device, I thought to myself "hey, I already
have one of those devices.  It's called a cane!"

In my reading on the story, I get the impression that researchers think that
this device is important because we blind people are oblivious to our
surroundings and need some way to get information about them.  I think this
is cool research for the sake of research, but I see absolutely no practical
need for the device.  With the proper skills and training, we can
independently navigate our own surroundings.  I further wonder if maybe
these uneducated or incorrectly educated researchers simply don't know about
the techniques we blind people can use to independently navigate our
surroundings or if they view them as inferior and think we should be trying
to operate as closely to sighted people as we can.

What does everyone on the list think?

Justin Salisbury
President
North Carolina Association of Blind Students


Justin M. Salisbury
Class of 2012
B.A. in Mathematics
East Carolina University
president at alumni.ecu.edu

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."    -MARGARET MEAD

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dotkid.nusbaum%40gmail.c
om



From dandrews at visi.com  Tue May 29 02:09:00 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 21:09:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention Agenda in Calendar Formats
Message-ID: <auto-000062850620@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>
>All:
>
>For those of you who would like to use the convention agenda in
>something other than Microsoft Word, here are a few different formats
>that I created after putting all the events on a Google Calendar:
>
>iCal (for adding to your Google Calendar, Outlook, or other calendar
>program): http://j.mp/LYvrXo
>HTML (view in your browser): http://j.mp/LCiH28
>Microsoft Excel: http://j.mp/JIWoxN
>
>you can use the iCal link if you use a Google Calendar, or a device
>like an iPhone or iPad that supports it, to add the calendar to your
>mobile device. If you are using Google Calendar in a web browser,
>adding the ical feed will allow you to toggle on and off the display
>of the agenda. You can also copy events directly to your calendar, and
>not sync the Agenda to your mobile device, but view it in the browser
>if you find you need to see what else is happening in addition to your
>own plans.
>
>For those of you using iDevices, it is best if you have your google
>account added as a Microsoft Exchange account, not a Google Account (I
>know, it seems strange, but this will allow you to sync mail,
>contacts, and calendars between your phone and Google without using
>another app). Once you have done this, you can go to
>http://m.google.com/sync (from your phone) to control which items are
>synced to your phone.
>
>I know some of this may be confusing if you haven't done it before, so
>if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'll certainly try to
>help.
>
>Also, be aware that the Texas affiliate has placed the entire agenda,
>in an HTML file suitable for computers, mobile phones or notetakers,
>on their website at http://j.mp/LMtElc
>
>Tony



From smwhalenpsp at gmail.com  Tue May 29 03:10:57 2012
From: smwhalenpsp at gmail.com (Sean Whalen)
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 23:10:57 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
Message-ID: <CAPnwOUOtbfLN1xaM=nrty-UWRJJaAr7UL+ee7Z46GeGgm6y-Wg@mail.gmail.com>

While I acknowledge that, in a perfect world, blind students would
take the exact same test as sighted students, I think it is very
important to keep in mind that ETS has a history of outreach to and
communication with blind students as they have developed accessible
versions of the GRE. ETS has been proactive, and, in my opinion,
certainly not discriminatory. And, the reality is that, pretty much by
definition, accommodated conditions for the GRE, or any test, will
differ from those under which the majority of students take them. Some
bodies, LSAC comes immediately to mind, do definitely engage in
discriminatory practices, but I think ETS has a very strong record.

My understanding is that schools cannot even see whether or not a test
was taken under accommodations, but I am not 100% sure on that. As for
the issue of leaving accommodated scores out of statistical analyses,
that has to be the case, for the reasons that Cindy mentioned.

I would be concerned if the lack of ability to take the version of the
dynamic test put blind students at a disadvantage by limiting the
ability to get high scores due to the impossibility of being branched
off into the harder questions, but I can’t imagine that this is the
case.

Finally, regarding having to spend half of your double time dictating
an essay to a scribe rather than spending all the time writing, I’d
have to ask what we really think is fair here. We get double time
because it takes longer to do this. Why should I get twice as long as
anybody else to write the essay?

In sum, though I admit the system may not be perfect, we ought to be
careful about labeling things discriminatory. And, in truth, we should
be glad that we have a strong partnership with ETS and that our input
is taken into consideration. If all gatekeepers of standardized tests
were as good on this front as ETS, we’d surely be in a better place.

Sean


From dandrews at visi.com  Tue May 29 16:50:32 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 11:50:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Taxi Technology for Passengers who are Blind or Visually
	Impaired
Message-ID: <auto-000062936371@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>
>The following press release is forwarded to you by the Great Lakes ADA
>  Center (
><http://www.adagreatlakes.org>www.adagreatlakes.org
>) for your information:
>Press Release:
>Taxi Technology for Passengers who are Blind or Visually Impaired
>Contact: Don Hoffman (Lighthouse), 212-981-5118
>Partnership leads to accessibility improvements for blind and visually
>  impaired taxi
>riders in New York and around the nation
>April 17, 2012, New York - In partnership with Creative Mobile
>  Technologies (CMT)
>and Lighthouse International, Council Member James Vacca, Chair of the
>  Council Transportation
>Committee, and former New York Governor David A. Paterson today announced
>  groundbreaking
>software enhancements designed to enable blind and visually impaired taxi
>  riders
>to independently access the credit card payment system and other
>  technology features
>in New York's yellow medallion taxicabs as well as taxi fleets around the
>  nation.
>CMT created adaptive software that will allow blind or visually impaired
>  taxi passengers
>to hear the fare changing in regular intervals during the trip and
>  facilitate all
>aspects of the credit card or cash payment functions upon reaching their
>  destination,
>including selection of payment options, verification of fare and selection
>  of tip
>percentages. CMT's audible touch screen system, which can be activated by
>  a special
>card or by simply asking the driver, will transform the screen into large,
>  easy-to-navigate
>sections that are operated by touch and prompted by step-by-step spoken
>  instructions.
>"I consistently hear that New York City is one of the most difficult
>  places for blind
>and visually impaired individuals to navigate," said Vacca. The payment
>  system in
>taxicabs has been a great improvement for passengers, and visually
>  impaired riders
>deserve to enjoy the same benefits of that system. This nationwide
>  initiative to
>make taxis more accessible for visually impaired riders is a major
>  achievement, both
>for the industry, and for this community. I want to commend CMT and
>  Lighthouse for
>making this a priority. This technology will make a real difference for
>  people who
>need it."
>This software is critical to the blind and visually impaired community's
>  ability
>to independently pay taxi fares. Prior to implementation of this new
>  software, blind
>and visually impaired passengers who chose to use credit cards were forced
>  to rely
>on cab drivers to swipe their card and enter the correct amount, including
>  tip. Not
>only is this a violation of current TLC rules, but also it exposes the
>  visually impaired
>passenger to the potential for fraudulent transactions, including
>  overpayment.
>"As a blind New Yorker I am part of a community that until now did not
>  benefit from
>the convenience of being able to use a credit card in the city's cabs when
>  the technology
>was first mandated in 2008," said David A.Paterson, 55th Governor of the
>  State of
>New York. "I applaud CMT for extending electronic payment to an often
>  underserved
>community by making New York City taxis independently accessible for the
>  vision impaired.
>Council Member James Vacca and Lighthouse International also deserve a
>  great deal
>of gratitude for their undying stewardship of this significant issue."
>In addition to its NYC rollout, CMT also plans to introduce software in
>  4,500 credit
>card and payment systems in taxis around the country including Chicago,
>  Boston, San
>Francisco, Philadelphia, Anaheim, Detroit, Kansas City, Columbus and
>  Charlotte.
>CMT and Lighthouse International will issue blind and visually impaired
>  individuals
>a card, compatible with any CMT taxi nationwide, that will activate the
>  adaptive
>software, though an activation card will not be required to engage the
>  system.
>"CMT is excited to work alongside Chairman Vacca and Lighthouse
>  International to
>produce these innovative software solutions that will revolutionize the
>  taxi experience
>for our blind and visually impaired customers," said Jesse H. Davis,
>  President of
>Creative Mobile Technologies. "We are very proud of the CMT team for
>  developing
>this innovative technology, and we praise the hard working advocates at
>  Lighthouse
>International who provided us with invaluable feedback in shaping its
>  development
>and to Chairman Vacca who has demonstrated great leadership on this issue.
>  We look
>forward to rolling out this feature in New York City and in CMT markets
>  throughout
>the nation."
>"This is an excellent example of the private sector working with
>  government leaders
>and advocates to voluntarily change a system that has excluded the
>  independent participation
>of thousands of people who are blind or visually impaired for far too
>  long," said
>Mark G. Ackermann, President and CEO of Lighthouse International. "We are
>  delighted
>to have played a role in this nationwide initiative and will continue
>  working to
>ensure that every taxi in the nation is accessible to people with a visual
>  impairment.
>Many thanks to Council Member James Vacca for his continued leadership on
>  behalf
>of people who are blind and visually impaired and to Creative Mobile
>  Technologies
>for their willingness to make this a reality."
>"Having a credit card system that talks will make riding in a taxi more
>  accessible,
>enabling me to pay by credit card independently. I applaud the efforts of
>  Council
>Member Vacca and Creative Mobile Technologies for making this possible,"
>  said Ellen
>Rubin, independent access consultant.
>"We applaud this innovation, which we believe will enhance the ability of
>  visually
>impaired New Yorkers to more independently use taxis and to pay for their
>  trips with
>credit and debit cards," said Commissioner David Yassky, Chairman of the
>  Taxi and
>Limousine Commission. "This is another good example of leveraging
>  technology to help
>overcome barriers to accessibility, and we look forward to working with
>  the tech
>community to bring further innovation to taxis with the goal of making
>  taxis more
>accessible to everyone."
>Lighthouse International estimates that the prevalence rate of vision loss
>  in New
>York City is 362,000. This number will only increase because of the aging
>  population
>and age-related causes of visual impairment and blindness, as well as
>  blindness due
>to uncontrolled diabetes.
>This announcement is the latest in a string of pro-accessibility measures
>  championed
>by Vacca, whose own father was blind. On March 28, the New York City
>  Council passed
>three bills aimed at improving mobility for blind and low vision
>  individuals navigating
>the city. Vacca's bill, Introduction 745, requires the Department of
>  Transportation
>to post maps of major street redesigns on its website in a format
>  accessible for
>people with sight and hearing disabilities. Lighthouse International
>  played a major
>role in securing the passage of this legislation, which Mayor Bloomberg
>  will sign
>today at 5 p.m. in the Governor's Room at City Hall.
>*About Lighthouse International:*
>Founded in 1905, Lighthouse International is a leading non-profit
>  organization dedicated
>to fighting vision loss through prevention, treatment and empowerment. It
>  achieves
>this through clinical and rehabilitation services, education, research and
>  advocacy.
>For more information about vision loss and its causes, contact Lighthouse
>  International
>at 1-800-829-0500 or visit
><http://www.lighthouse.org>www.lighthouse.org
>.
>*About Creative Mobile Technologies (CMT):* Founded in New York City in
>  2005 by taxi
>industry leaders, Creative Mobile Technologies (CMT) provides more than
>  20,000 taxicabs
>in 60 cities and 35 states with a variety of taxi technologies and
>  enhancements including
>credit and debit card processing, media and advertising content, text
>  messaging,
>interactive passengers maps, GPS, electronic trip sheets and back-office
>  fleet management
>systems. CMT has more than 6,600 units in New York City alone. CMT's
>  unique "for
>the industry, by the industry" business model has empowered taxi fleets
>  and individual
>taxi operators throughout the country with customized solutions born out
>  of the company's
>deep roots in the taxi industry. CMT's FREEdom Solution integrates all of
>  the technology
>including dispatching, banking and media components that has helped to
>  bring the
>American taxi industry into a new era of efficiency and innovation.
>Source:
><http://www.lighthouse.org/news/press-releases/vacca>http://www.lighthouse.org/news/press-releases/vacca

From rloew at ETS.ORG  Tue May 29 17:35:57 2012
From: rloew at ETS.ORG (Loew, Ruth)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 10:35:57 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] nabs-l Digest, Vol 67, Issue 37
In-Reply-To: <mailman.23.1338310813.9110.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <216E26F886846C4291CFEB500A05DAF80D1138E57F@VA3DIAXVS9E1.RED001.local>

Again, I'm replying from vacation, so I have not read all the posts on the GRE thread. Thanks, Cindy and Sean, for your posts. Sean, if you think it'd be appropriate to give me a Q and A slot at Convention, or for me to just invite NABS members for coffee and questions then, I'd be glad to do so.

A few points:
1. The score report does not indicate anything at all about accommodations. Some testing agencies still do "flag" score reports. ETS gave this up more than a decade ago.
2.  Scores are on the same scale in all formats. Your score is not restricted by test format or other accommodations. I can't answer all the research or stats questions, but I'll check into them in June.
3. Cindy, your explanation about the need for tactile graphics or other hard-copy supplements requiring predetermined questions was right on target. Thanks.

Sean, thanks for the kind words. ETS has improved its policies and processes for accommodating blind test takers thanks to NFB input. There is more we need to do, and we'll keep up the dialogue.

If anyone has a question that can't wait a week, please email me off-list at rloew at ets.org. Thanks.
Ruth Loew, ETS

----- Original Message -----
From: nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-request at nfbnet.org]
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 10:00 AM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: nabs-l Digest, Vol 67, Issue 37

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: taking the GRE (Cynthia Bennett)
   2. Convention Agenda in Calendar Formats (Tony Olivero)
   3. Re: Convention Agenda in Calendar Formats (Joshua Lester)
   4. Re: Convention Agenda in Calendar Formats (Tony Olivero)
   5. Re: Convention Agenda in Calendar Formats (Joshua Lester)
   6. Re: Device Helps Blind See with Tongue (Chris Nusbaum)
   7. Convention Agenda in Calendar Formats (David Andrews)
   8. Re: taking the GRE (Sean Whalen)
   9. Taxi Technology for Passengers who are Blind or Visually
      Impaired (David Andrews)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 10:50:40 -0700
From: Cynthia Bennett <clb5590 at gmail.com>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
Message-ID:
        <CACUFQdy0u5kzn+FcaN1kJqwm3GPWWTWk4G_VSyBy_6kNUsKH4Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I'm glad Ruth was able to clear some things up. I'm sorry I gave wrong
information. One thing she didn't quite mention in her message to the
list but that she mentioned in her email to me is an obvious point
that we should have picked up on. If ETS provides a hard-copy
supplement which is advantageous especially for the tactile graphics,
then all the questions have to be predetermined. So I personally
prefer this so I can have the graphics to look at.

Cindy

On 5/28/12, Loew, Ruth <rloew at ets.org> wrote:
> Hi, everybody.  I'm sorry I've been slow to respond.  I was at a BANA
> meeting last week, and now I'm on vacation.  For most of this week, I'm
> going to be accessing email primarily via a mobile device (BlackBerry) that
> doesn't give me very good access to long emails, such as listserv digests.
> So if you have an urgent question about the GRE (or anything else related to
> ETS testing), please email me offlist at
> rloew at ets.org<mailto:rloew at ets.org>.  I can read short individual emails
> much more easily than the listserv.  Anything that's less urgent, I'll
> answer once I'm back in the office (June 4 and thereafter).  And I'll be at
> Convention all week.
>
> You've asked some great and complicated questions about the GRE General
> Test.  Here are answers to some of them:
>
> 1.      The self-voicing test is still available.  It is true that right
> now, it's still a self-voicing version of the "old" GRE, the one that was
> offered until the revised GRE went live late last summer.  But scores are
> statistically converted to the new scale, so there's no way for grad schools
> to know that you took the self-voicing test (or any other accommodation, for
> that matter).  For more information on score conversion, see
> http://www.ets.org/gre/revised_general/scores/how.
> 2.      The self-voicing version of the revised GRE General Test is being
> created now.  I'm not sure of the exact time frame; I believe the goal is to
> have the practice test and tutorial ready sometime this summer and the test
> itself soon thereafter.  When I have firm dates, I'll let you know.
> 3.      The "old" GRE was dynamic in the way Arielle described: Questions
> were selected based on performance on previous questions.  The revised GRE,
> however, is much less dynamic in that sense.  After a certain point in the
> Verbal section, and again at some point in the Quant (math), there's a
> branching to easy, medium, or high difficulty questions, based on
> performance; but that's it.  So there's less difference between the "static"
> test formats (self-voicing, braille, large print, reader's script, recorded
> audio) and the standard computer-based test than was formerly the case.
> 4.      In the self-voicing test, and also in recorded audio and reader's
> script, the figures are fully described, and tactile or enlarged graphics
> (your choice) are provided.
> 5.      Here's some information on accessible practice materials for the GRE
> General Test: http://www.ets.org/gre/revised_general/prepare/disabilities.
> If you need more information, or want to request specific practice
> materials, please contact Nora Hallenbeck:
> nhallenbeck at ets.org<mailto:nhallenbeck at ets.org>.  She's a customer service
> representative with a lot of experience with blind and low-vision test
> takers, and she's responsible for shipping hard-copy GRE practice
> materials.
>
> I hope this is helpful.  Feel free to contact me off-list or after my
> vacation.  If there's demand, I'd be happy to arrange an informal Q & A
> session at Convention or by phone.
>
> Enjoy the holiday weekend, at least what's left of it!
>
> Ruth C. Loew, Ph.D.
> Assistant Director
> Office of Disability Policy, ETS
> phone: 609-683-2984
> fax: 609-683-2220
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


--
Cynthia Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 13:47:39 -0500
From: Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,    "nebraska-students at nfbnet.org"
        <nebraska-students at nfbnet.org>
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention Agenda in Calendar Formats
Message-ID:
        <CALQ-rrNrADd3GY-DAMJisgHohUqUgZgLpSsiPCakmYLTYgg+wQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

All:

For those of you who would like to use the convention agenda in
something other than Microsoft Word, here are a few different formats
that I created after putting all the events on a Google Calendar:

iCal (for adding to your Google Calendar, Outlook, or other calendar
program): http://j.mp/LYvrXo
HTML (view in your browser): http://j.mp/LCiH28
Microsoft Excel: http://j.mp/JIWoxN

you can use the iCal link if you use a Google Calendar, or a device
like an iPhone or iPad that supports it, to add the calendar to your
mobile device. If you are using Google Calendar in a web browser,
adding the ical feed will allow you to toggle on and off the display
of the agenda. You can also copy events directly to your calendar, and
not sync the Agenda to your mobile device, but view it in the browser
if you find you need to see what else is happening in addition to your
own plans.

For those of you using iDevices, it is best if you have your google
account added as a Microsoft Exchange account, not a Google Account (I
know, it seems strange, but this will allow you to sync mail,
contacts, and calendars between your phone and Google without using
another app). Once you have done this, you can go to
http://m.google.com/sync (from your phone) to control which items are
synced to your phone.

I know some of this may be confusing if you haven't done it before, so
if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'll certainly try to
help.

Also, be aware that the Texas affiliate has placed the entire agenda,
in an HTML file suitable for computers, mobile phones or notetakers,
on their website at http://j.mp/LMtElc

Tony



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 14:23:02 -0500
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention Agenda in Calendar Formats
Message-ID:
        <CAO83KOuPxDOXxvqQyt0zW8WKkv7b0mNdPTmw5Aboft8euYpWng at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I found the agenda, yesterday!
Thanks!
BTW, Tony, your Website won't work for me.
it says, "Page has no links.
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/28/12, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:
> All:
>
> For those of you who would like to use the convention agenda in
> something other than Microsoft Word, here are a few different formats
> that I created after putting all the events on a Google Calendar:
>
> iCal (for adding to your Google Calendar, Outlook, or other calendar
> program): http://j.mp/LYvrXo
> HTML (view in your browser): http://j.mp/LCiH28
> Microsoft Excel: http://j.mp/JIWoxN
>
> you can use the iCal link if you use a Google Calendar, or a device
> like an iPhone or iPad that supports it, to add the calendar to your
> mobile device. If you are using Google Calendar in a web browser,
> adding the ical feed will allow you to toggle on and off the display
> of the agenda. You can also copy events directly to your calendar, and
> not sync the Agenda to your mobile device, but view it in the browser
> if you find you need to see what else is happening in addition to your
> own plans.
>
> For those of you using iDevices, it is best if you have your google
> account added as a Microsoft Exchange account, not a Google Account (I
> know, it seems strange, but this will allow you to sync mail,
> contacts, and calendars between your phone and Google without using
> another app). Once you have done this, you can go to
> http://m.google.com/sync (from your phone) to control which items are
> synced to your phone.
>
> I know some of this may be confusing if you haven't done it before, so
> if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'll certainly try to
> help.
>
> Also, be aware that the Texas affiliate has placed the entire agenda,
> in an HTML file suitable for computers, mobile phones or notetakers,
> on their website at http://j.mp/LMtElc
>
> Tony
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 16:15:56 -0500
From: Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention Agenda in Calendar Formats
Message-ID:
        <CALQ-rrO+7XvNYioeinJ9s9OH8fu5GeB0mnodBNqTziqp8k1Gxg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Joshua,

Which one did you click on? There technically are no links in the
Google Calendar HTML view. Find "agenda" and press enter on that, then
press the "next period" button until it shows 6/30.

One thing to remember, not all pages will say there are links, but
there will still be content. A lot of pages that have dynamic content
use JavaScript to make things happen. There aren't always links, but
text is still "clickable" (or in the case of a JAWS user, activated by
presing ENTER on it).

Tony

On 5/28/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
> I found the agenda, yesterday!
> Thanks!
> BTW, Tony, your Website won't work for me.
> it says, "Page has no links.
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/28/12, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:
>> All:
>>
>> For those of you who would like to use the convention agenda in
>> something other than Microsoft Word, here are a few different formats
>> that I created after putting all the events on a Google Calendar:
>>
>> iCal (for adding to your Google Calendar, Outlook, or other calendar
>> program): http://j.mp/LYvrXo
>> HTML (view in your browser): http://j.mp/LCiH28
>> Microsoft Excel: http://j.mp/JIWoxN
>>
>> you can use the iCal link if you use a Google Calendar, or a device
>> like an iPhone or iPad that supports it, to add the calendar to your
>> mobile device. If you are using Google Calendar in a web browser,
>> adding the ical feed will allow you to toggle on and off the display
>> of the agenda. You can also copy events directly to your calendar, and
>> not sync the Agenda to your mobile device, but view it in the browser
>> if you find you need to see what else is happening in addition to your
>> own plans.
>>
>> For those of you using iDevices, it is best if you have your google
>> account added as a Microsoft Exchange account, not a Google Account (I
>> know, it seems strange, but this will allow you to sync mail,
>> contacts, and calendars between your phone and Google without using
>> another app). Once you have done this, you can go to
>> http://m.google.com/sync (from your phone) to control which items are
>> synced to your phone.
>>
>> I know some of this may be confusing if you haven't done it before, so
>> if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'll certainly try to
>> help.
>>
>> Also, be aware that the Texas affiliate has placed the entire agenda,
>> in an HTML file suitable for computers, mobile phones or notetakers,
>> on their website at http://j.mp/LMtElc
>>
>> Tony
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us
>



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 16:20:15 -0500
From: Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu>
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Convention Agenda in Calendar Formats
Message-ID:
        <CAO83KOug8E4JypbYOCXvO-uNSvgYxvpt7txtGS0mXm2q2WfcJw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Since this is your personal site, I'll E-mail you off list.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/28/12, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:
> Joshua,
>
> Which one did you click on? There technically are no links in the
> Google Calendar HTML view. Find "agenda" and press enter on that, then
> press the "next period" button until it shows 6/30.
>
> One thing to remember, not all pages will say there are links, but
> there will still be content. A lot of pages that have dynamic content
> use JavaScript to make things happen. There aren't always links, but
> text is still "clickable" (or in the case of a JAWS user, activated by
> presing ENTER on it).
>
> Tony
>
> On 5/28/12, Joshua Lester <jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu> wrote:
>> I found the agenda, yesterday!
>> Thanks!
>> BTW, Tony, your Website won't work for me.
>> it says, "Page has no links.
>> Thanks, Joshua
>>
>> On 5/28/12, Tony Olivero <anthony at olivero.us> wrote:
>>> All:
>>>
>>> For those of you who would like to use the convention agenda in
>>> something other than Microsoft Word, here are a few different formats
>>> that I created after putting all the events on a Google Calendar:
>>>
>>> iCal (for adding to your Google Calendar, Outlook, or other calendar
>>> program): http://j.mp/LYvrXo
>>> HTML (view in your browser): http://j.mp/LCiH28
>>> Microsoft Excel: http://j.mp/JIWoxN
>>>
>>> you can use the iCal link if you use a Google Calendar, or a device
>>> like an iPhone or iPad that supports it, to add the calendar to your
>>> mobile device. If you are using Google Calendar in a web browser,
>>> adding the ical feed will allow you to toggle on and off the display
>>> of the agenda. You can also copy events directly to your calendar, and
>>> not sync the Agenda to your mobile device, but view it in the browser
>>> if you find you need to see what else is happening in addition to your
>>> own plans.
>>>
>>> For those of you using iDevices, it is best if you have your google
>>> account added as a Microsoft Exchange account, not a Google Account (I
>>> know, it seems strange, but this will allow you to sync mail,
>>> contacts, and calendars between your phone and Google without using
>>> another app). Once you have done this, you can go to
>>> http://m.google.com/sync (from your phone) to control which items are
>>> synced to your phone.
>>>
>>> I know some of this may be confusing if you haven't done it before, so
>>> if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'll certainly try to
>>> help.
>>>
>>> Also, be aware that the Texas affiliate has placed the entire agenda,
>>> in an HTML file suitable for computers, mobile phones or notetakers,
>>> on their website at http://j.mp/LMtElc
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 21:52:48 -0400
From: "Chris Nusbaum" <dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com>
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'"
        <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue
Message-ID: <001701cd3d3d$c0b996a0$422cc3e0$@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

Hi Justin and everyone,

Sorry for the late posting on this thread; I have gotten behind on my emails
lately due to end-of-the-year schoolwork. Ah, the joy of finals... not!
<Smile!>

Justin, I think you hit the nail on the head. This device reminds me of that
extra-sensory cane which was posted about and discussed on the list some
time ago. The cane would, according to the designers, help us improve our
social skills by "leading" us to a person we know via some kind of high-tech
computer. These kinds of things come up often; just read some of the banquet
speeches at our past national conventions. In fact, if you ever want a good
laugh, read or listen to some of Dr. Jernigan's old banquet speeches, and
you will see the stupidity of the public when it comes to blindness!

Don't get me wrong here, I think these researchers had well-meaning
intentions, as do many sighted people who develop high-tech gadgets and do
other things which harm us more than help us. Now, this raises the question:
if these researchers and others have well-meaning intentions, why do their
developments harm us rather than help us? The answer, I believe, is simple:
because they generate a lot of harmful misconceptions about blindness among
the sighted public! Also, the more media attension these kinds of gadgets
receive, the more it harms us. Why? Because the media, despite all the
complaints of most of the public about it to the contrary, is a big factor
in molding public thought, and if the media has misconceptions about
blindness which they put out to the public, it's going to create new
misconceptions among the public at large, or reinforce the old ones. I think
the biggest thing these researchers didn't do was consult with the blind
ourselves by writing to organizations such as the NFB to see if we really
need this device. The only information they are getting is from the public,
and they already have misconceptions.

Just my thoughts,

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Justin Salisbury
Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2012 6:13 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Device Helps Blind See with Tongue

Philosophy Discussion Time

I just caught this story on the local news, and I want to hear people's
opinions of it.  There are many different versions of this news story, but
here's a link to a page with a video and text article:

http://wearecentralpa.com/fulltext-healthcast?nxd_id=369932

Feel free to find other versions of this story using a simple search engine.

When I heard that Mark couldn't wait for the day that he could navigate his
own home independently with a device, I thought to myself "hey, I already
have one of those devices.  It's called a cane!"

In my reading on the story, I get the impression that researchers think that
this device is important because we blind people are oblivious to our
surroundings and need some way to get information about them.  I think this
is cool research for the sake of research, but I see absolutely no practical
need for the device.  With the proper skills and training, we can
independently navigate our own surroundings.  I further wonder if maybe
these uneducated or incorrectly educated researchers simply don't know about
the techniques we blind people can use to independently navigate our
surroundings or if they view them as inferior and think we should be trying
to operate as closely to sighted people as we can.

What does everyone on the list think?

Justin Salisbury
President
North Carolina Association of Blind Students


Justin M. Salisbury
Class of 2012
B.A. in Mathematics
East Carolina University
president at alumni.ecu.edu

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change
the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."    -MARGARET MEAD

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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 21:09:00 -0500
From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention Agenda in Calendar Formats
Message-ID: <auto-000062850620 at mailfront3.g2host.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed


>
>All:
>
>For those of you who would like to use the convention agenda in
>something other than Microsoft Word, here are a few different formats
>that I created after putting all the events on a Google Calendar:
>
>iCal (for adding to your Google Calendar, Outlook, or other calendar
>program): http://j.mp/LYvrXo
>HTML (view in your browser): http://j.mp/LCiH28
>Microsoft Excel: http://j.mp/JIWoxN
>
>you can use the iCal link if you use a Google Calendar, or a device
>like an iPhone or iPad that supports it, to add the calendar to your
>mobile device. If you are using Google Calendar in a web browser,
>adding the ical feed will allow you to toggle on and off the display
>of the agenda. You can also copy events directly to your calendar, and
>not sync the Agenda to your mobile device, but view it in the browser
>if you find you need to see what else is happening in addition to your
>own plans.
>
>For those of you using iDevices, it is best if you have your google
>account added as a Microsoft Exchange account, not a Google Account (I
>know, it seems strange, but this will allow you to sync mail,
>contacts, and calendars between your phone and Google without using
>another app). Once you have done this, you can go to
>http://m.google.com/sync (from your phone) to control which items are
>synced to your phone.
>
>I know some of this may be confusing if you haven't done it before, so
>if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'll certainly try to
>help.
>
>Also, be aware that the Texas affiliate has placed the entire agenda,
>in an HTML file suitable for computers, mobile phones or notetakers,
>on their website at http://j.mp/LMtElc
>
>Tony




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 23:10:57 -0400
From: Sean Whalen <smwhalenpsp at gmail.com>
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
Message-ID:
        <CAPnwOUOtbfLN1xaM=nrty-UWRJJaAr7UL+ee7Z46GeGgm6y-Wg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

While I acknowledge that, in a perfect world, blind students would
take the exact same test as sighted students, I think it is very
important to keep in mind that ETS has a history of outreach to and
communication with blind students as they have developed accessible
versions of the GRE. ETS has been proactive, and, in my opinion,
certainly not discriminatory. And, the reality is that, pretty much by
definition, accommodated conditions for the GRE, or any test, will
differ from those under which the majority of students take them. Some
bodies, LSAC comes immediately to mind, do definitely engage in
discriminatory practices, but I think ETS has a very strong record.

My understanding is that schools cannot even see whether or not a test
was taken under accommodations, but I am not 100% sure on that. As for
the issue of leaving accommodated scores out of statistical analyses,
that has to be the case, for the reasons that Cindy mentioned.

I would be concerned if the lack of ability to take the version of the
dynamic test put blind students at a disadvantage by limiting the
ability to get high scores due to the impossibility of being branched
off into the harder questions, but I can?t imagine that this is the
case.

Finally, regarding having to spend half of your double time dictating
an essay to a scribe rather than spending all the time writing, I?d
have to ask what we really think is fair here. We get double time
because it takes longer to do this. Why should I get twice as long as
anybody else to write the essay?

In sum, though I admit the system may not be perfect, we ought to be
careful about labeling things discriminatory. And, in truth, we should
be glad that we have a strong partnership with ETS and that our input
is taken into consideration. If all gatekeepers of standardized tests
were as good on this front as ETS, we?d surely be in a better place.

Sean



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 11:50:32 -0500
From: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Taxi Technology for Passengers who are Blind or
        Visually        Impaired
Message-ID: <auto-000062936371 at mailfront3.g2host.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed


>
>The following press release is forwarded to you by the Great Lakes ADA
>  Center (
><http://www.adagreatlakes.org>www.adagreatlakes.org
>) for your information:
>Press Release:
>Taxi Technology for Passengers who are Blind or Visually Impaired
>Contact: Don Hoffman (Lighthouse), 212-981-5118
>Partnership leads to accessibility improvements for blind and visually
>  impaired taxi
>riders in New York and around the nation
>April 17, 2012, New York - In partnership with Creative Mobile
>  Technologies (CMT)
>and Lighthouse International, Council Member James Vacca, Chair of the
>  Council Transportation
>Committee, and former New York Governor David A. Paterson today announced
>  groundbreaking
>software enhancements designed to enable blind and visually impaired taxi
>  riders
>to independently access the credit card payment system and other
>  technology features
>in New York's yellow medallion taxicabs as well as taxi fleets around the
>  nation.
>CMT created adaptive software that will allow blind or visually impaired
>  taxi passengers
>to hear the fare changing in regular intervals during the trip and
>  facilitate all
>aspects of the credit card or cash payment functions upon reaching their
>  destination,
>including selection of payment options, verification of fare and selection
>  of tip
>percentages. CMT's audible touch screen system, which can be activated by
>  a special
>card or by simply asking the driver, will transform the screen into large,
>  easy-to-navigate
>sections that are operated by touch and prompted by step-by-step spoken
>  instructions.
>"I consistently hear that New York City is one of the most difficult
>  places for blind
>and visually impaired individuals to navigate," said Vacca. The payment
>  system in
>taxicabs has been a great improvement for passengers, and visually
>  impaired riders
>deserve to enjoy the same benefits of that system. This nationwide
>  initiative to
>make taxis more accessible for visually impaired riders is a major
>  achievement, both
>for the industry, and for this community. I want to commend CMT and
>  Lighthouse for
>making this a priority. This technology will make a real difference for
>  people who
>need it."
>This software is critical to the blind and visually impaired community's
>  ability
>to independently pay taxi fares. Prior to implementation of this new
>  software, blind
>and visually impaired passengers who chose to use credit cards were forced
>  to rely
>on cab drivers to swipe their card and enter the correct amount, including
>  tip. Not
>only is this a violation of current TLC rules, but also it exposes the
>  visually impaired
>passenger to the potential for fraudulent transactions, including
>  overpayment.
>"As a blind New Yorker I am part of a community that until now did not
>  benefit from
>the convenience of being able to use a credit card in the city's cabs when
>  the technology
>was first mandated in 2008," said David A.Paterson, 55th Governor of the
>  State of
>New York. "I applaud CMT for extending electronic payment to an often
>  underserved
>community by making New York City taxis independently accessible for the
>  vision impaired.
>Council Member James Vacca and Lighthouse International also deserve a
>  great deal
>of gratitude for their undying stewardship of this significant issue."
>In addition to its NYC rollout, CMT also plans to introduce software in
>  4,500 credit
>card and payment systems in taxis around the country including Chicago,
>  Boston, San
>Francisco, Philadelphia, Anaheim, Detroit, Kansas City, Columbus and
>  Charlotte.
>CMT and Lighthouse International will issue blind and visually impaired
>  individuals
>a card, compatible with any CMT taxi nationwide, that will activate the
>  adaptive
>software, though an activation card will not be required to engage the
>  system.
>"CMT is excited to work alongside Chairman Vacca and Lighthouse
>  International to
>produce these innovative software solutions that will revolutionize the
>  taxi experience
>for our blind and visually impaired customers," said Jesse H. Davis,
>  President of
>Creative Mobile Technologies. "We are very proud of the CMT team for
>  developing
>this innovative technology, and we praise the hard working advocates at
>  Lighthouse
>International who provided us with invaluable feedback in shaping its
>  development
>and to Chairman Vacca who has demonstrated great leadership on this issue.
>  We look
>forward to rolling out this feature in New York City and in CMT markets
>  throughout
>the nation."
>"This is an excellent example of the private sector working with
>  government leaders
>and advocates to voluntarily change a system that has excluded the
>  independent participation
>of thousands of people who are blind or visually impaired for far too
>  long," said
>Mark G. Ackermann, President and CEO of Lighthouse International. "We are
>  delighted
>to have played a role in this nationwide initiative and will continue
>  working to
>ensure that every taxi in the nation is accessible to people with a visual
>  impairment.
>Many thanks to Council Member James Vacca for his continued leadership on
>  behalf
>of people who are blind and visually impaired and to Creative Mobile
>  Technologies
>for their willingness to make this a reality."
>"Having a credit card system that talks will make riding in a taxi more
>  accessible,
>enabling me to pay by credit card independently. I applaud the efforts of
>  Council
>Member Vacca and Creative Mobile Technologies for making this possible,"
>  said Ellen
>Rubin, independent access consultant.
>"We applaud this innovation, which we believe will enhance the ability of
>  visually
>impaired New Yorkers to more independently use taxis and to pay for their
>  trips with
>credit and debit cards," said Commissioner David Yassky, Chairman of the
>  Taxi and
>Limousine Commission. "This is another good example of leveraging
>  technology to help
>overcome barriers to accessibility, and we look forward to working with
>  the tech
>community to bring further innovation to taxis with the goal of making
>  taxis more
>accessible to everyone."
>Lighthouse International estimates that the prevalence rate of vision loss
>  in New
>York City is 362,000. This number will only increase because of the aging
>  population
>and age-related causes of visual impairment and blindness, as well as
>  blindness due
>to uncontrolled diabetes.
>This announcement is the latest in a string of pro-accessibility measures
>  championed
>by Vacca, whose own father was blind. On March 28, the New York City
>  Council passed
>three bills aimed at improving mobility for blind and low vision
>  individuals navigating
>the city. Vacca's bill, Introduction 745, requires the Department of
>  Transportation
>to post maps of major street redesigns on its website in a format
>  accessible for
>people with sight and hearing disabilities. Lighthouse International
>  played a major
>role in securing the passage of this legislation, which Mayor Bloomberg
>  will sign
>today at 5 p.m. in the Governor's Room at City Hall.
>*About Lighthouse International:*
>Founded in 1905, Lighthouse International is a leading non-profit
>  organization dedicated
>to fighting vision loss through prevention, treatment and empowerment. It
>  achieves
>this through clinical and rehabilitation services, education, research and
>  advocacy.
>For more information about vision loss and its causes, contact Lighthouse
>  International
>at 1-800-829-0500 or visit
><http://www.lighthouse.org>www.lighthouse.org
>.
>*About Creative Mobile Technologies (CMT):* Founded in New York City in
>  2005 by taxi
>industry leaders, Creative Mobile Technologies (CMT) provides more than
>  20,000 taxicabs
>in 60 cities and 35 states with a variety of taxi technologies and
>  enhancements including
>credit and debit card processing, media and advertising content, text
>  messaging,
>interactive passengers maps, GPS, electronic trip sheets and back-office
>  fleet management
>systems. CMT has more than 6,600 units in New York City alone. CMT's
>  unique "for
>the industry, by the industry" business model has empowered taxi fleets
>  and individual
>taxi operators throughout the country with customized solutions born out
>  of the company's
>deep roots in the taxi industry. CMT's FREEdom Solution integrates all of
>  the technology
>including dispatching, banking and media components that has helped to
>  bring the
>American taxi industry into a new era of efficiency and innovation.
>Source:
><http://www.lighthouse.org/news/press-releases/vacca>http://www.lighthouse.org/news/press-releases/vacca


------------------------------

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org


End of nabs-l Digest, Vol 67, Issue 37
**************************************




From raydar11011 at yahoo.com  Tue May 29 17:45:49 2012
From: raydar11011 at yahoo.com (Reinhard Stebner)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 13:45:49 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Taxi Technology for Passengers who are Blind or
	Visually	Impaired
In-Reply-To: <auto-000062936371@mailfront3.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000062936371@mailfront3.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <04ff01cd3dc2$e25d5690$a71803b0$@yahoo.com>

Do you know how I can check to see when this system will be installed in
cabs in my area?

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of David Andrews
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 12:51 PM
To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Taxi Technology for Passengers who are Blind or Visually
Impaired


>
>The following press release is forwarded to you by the Great Lakes ADA
>  Center (
><http://www.adagreatlakes.org>www.adagreatlakes.org
>) for your information:
>Press Release:
>Taxi Technology for Passengers who are Blind or Visually Impaired
>Contact: Don Hoffman (Lighthouse), 212-981-5118
>Partnership leads to accessibility improvements for blind and visually
>  impaired taxi
>riders in New York and around the nation
>April 17, 2012, New York - In partnership with Creative Mobile
>  Technologies (CMT)
>and Lighthouse International, Council Member James Vacca, Chair of the
>  Council Transportation
>Committee, and former New York Governor David A. Paterson today announced
>  groundbreaking
>software enhancements designed to enable blind and visually impaired taxi
>  riders
>to independently access the credit card payment system and other
>  technology features
>in New York's yellow medallion taxicabs as well as taxi fleets around the
>  nation.
>CMT created adaptive software that will allow blind or visually impaired
>  taxi passengers
>to hear the fare changing in regular intervals during the trip and
>  facilitate all
>aspects of the credit card or cash payment functions upon reaching their
>  destination,
>including selection of payment options, verification of fare and selection
>  of tip
>percentages. CMT's audible touch screen system, which can be activated by
>  a special
>card or by simply asking the driver, will transform the screen into large,
>  easy-to-navigate
>sections that are operated by touch and prompted by step-by-step spoken
>  instructions.
>"I consistently hear that New York City is one of the most difficult
>  places for blind
>and visually impaired individuals to navigate," said Vacca. The payment
>  system in
>taxicabs has been a great improvement for passengers, and visually
>  impaired riders
>deserve to enjoy the same benefits of that system. This nationwide
>  initiative to
>make taxis more accessible for visually impaired riders is a major
>  achievement, both
>for the industry, and for this community. I want to commend CMT and
>  Lighthouse for
>making this a priority. This technology will make a real difference for
>  people who
>need it."
>This software is critical to the blind and visually impaired community's
>  ability
>to independently pay taxi fares. Prior to implementation of this new
>  software, blind
>and visually impaired passengers who chose to use credit cards were forced
>  to rely
>on cab drivers to swipe their card and enter the correct amount, including
>  tip. Not
>only is this a violation of current TLC rules, but also it exposes the
>  visually impaired
>passenger to the potential for fraudulent transactions, including
>  overpayment.
>"As a blind New Yorker I am part of a community that until now did not
>  benefit from
>the convenience of being able to use a credit card in the city's cabs when
>  the technology
>was first mandated in 2008," said David A.Paterson, 55th Governor of the
>  State of
>New York. "I applaud CMT for extending electronic payment to an often
>  underserved
>community by making New York City taxis independently accessible for the
>  vision impaired.
>Council Member James Vacca and Lighthouse International also deserve a
>  great deal
>of gratitude for their undying stewardship of this significant issue."
>In addition to its NYC rollout, CMT also plans to introduce software in
>  4,500 credit
>card and payment systems in taxis around the country including Chicago,
>  Boston, San
>Francisco, Philadelphia, Anaheim, Detroit, Kansas City, Columbus and
>  Charlotte.
>CMT and Lighthouse International will issue blind and visually impaired
>  individuals
>a card, compatible with any CMT taxi nationwide, that will activate the
>  adaptive
>software, though an activation card will not be required to engage the
>  system.
>"CMT is excited to work alongside Chairman Vacca and Lighthouse
>  International to
>produce these innovative software solutions that will revolutionize the
>  taxi experience
>for our blind and visually impaired customers," said Jesse H. Davis,
>  President of
>Creative Mobile Technologies. "We are very proud of the CMT team for
>  developing
>this innovative technology, and we praise the hard working advocates at
>  Lighthouse
>International who provided us with invaluable feedback in shaping its
>  development
>and to Chairman Vacca who has demonstrated great leadership on this issue.
>  We look
>forward to rolling out this feature in New York City and in CMT markets
>  throughout
>the nation."
>"This is an excellent example of the private sector working with
>  government leaders
>and advocates to voluntarily change a system that has excluded the
>  independent participation
>of thousands of people who are blind or visually impaired for far too
>  long," said
>Mark G. Ackermann, President and CEO of Lighthouse International. "We are
>  delighted
>to have played a role in this nationwide initiative and will continue
>  working to
>ensure that every taxi in the nation is accessible to people with a visual
>  impairment.
>Many thanks to Council Member James Vacca for his continued leadership on
>  behalf
>of people who are blind and visually impaired and to Creative Mobile
>  Technologies
>for their willingness to make this a reality."
>"Having a credit card system that talks will make riding in a taxi more
>  accessible,
>enabling me to pay by credit card independently. I applaud the efforts of
>  Council
>Member Vacca and Creative Mobile Technologies for making this possible,"
>  said Ellen
>Rubin, independent access consultant.
>"We applaud this innovation, which we believe will enhance the ability of
>  visually
>impaired New Yorkers to more independently use taxis and to pay for their
>  trips with
>credit and debit cards," said Commissioner David Yassky, Chairman of the
>  Taxi and
>Limousine Commission. "This is another good example of leveraging
>  technology to help
>overcome barriers to accessibility, and we look forward to working with
>  the tech
>community to bring further innovation to taxis with the goal of making
>  taxis more
>accessible to everyone."
>Lighthouse International estimates that the prevalence rate of vision loss
>  in New
>York City is 362,000. This number will only increase because of the aging
>  population
>and age-related causes of visual impairment and blindness, as well as
>  blindness due
>to uncontrolled diabetes.
>This announcement is the latest in a string of pro-accessibility measures
>  championed
>by Vacca, whose own father was blind. On March 28, the New York City
>  Council passed
>three bills aimed at improving mobility for blind and low vision
>  individuals navigating
>the city. Vacca's bill, Introduction 745, requires the Department of
>  Transportation
>to post maps of major street redesigns on its website in a format
>  accessible for
>people with sight and hearing disabilities. Lighthouse International
>  played a major
>role in securing the passage of this legislation, which Mayor Bloomberg
>  will sign
>today at 5 p.m. in the Governor's Room at City Hall.
>*About Lighthouse International:*
>Founded in 1905, Lighthouse International is a leading non-profit
>  organization dedicated
>to fighting vision loss through prevention, treatment and empowerment. It
>  achieves
>this through clinical and rehabilitation services, education, research and
>  advocacy.
>For more information about vision loss and its causes, contact Lighthouse
>  International
>at 1-800-829-0500 or visit
><http://www.lighthouse.org>www.lighthouse.org
>.
>*About Creative Mobile Technologies (CMT):* Founded in New York City in
>  2005 by taxi
>industry leaders, Creative Mobile Technologies (CMT) provides more than
>  20,000 taxicabs
>in 60 cities and 35 states with a variety of taxi technologies and
>  enhancements including
>credit and debit card processing, media and advertising content, text
>  messaging,
>interactive passengers maps, GPS, electronic trip sheets and back-office
>  fleet management
>systems. CMT has more than 6,600 units in New York City alone. CMT's
>  unique "for
>the industry, by the industry" business model has empowered taxi fleets
>  and individual
>taxi operators throughout the country with customized solutions born out
>  of the company's
>deep roots in the taxi industry. CMT's FREEdom Solution integrates all of
>  the technology
>including dispatching, banking and media components that has helped to
>  bring the
>American taxi industry into a new era of efficiency and innovation.
>Source:
><http://www.lighthouse.org/news/press-releases/vacca>http://www.lighthouse.
org/news/press-releases/vacca
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raydar11011%40yahoo.com



From dandrews at visi.com  Tue May 29 19:54:48 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 14:54:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Taxi Technology for Passengers who are Blind or
 Visually	Impaired
In-Reply-To: <04ff01cd3dc2$e25d5690$a71803b0$@yahoo.com>
References: <auto-000062936371@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<04ff01cd3dc2$e25d5690$a71803b0$@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000062308892@mailfront4.g2host.com>

I have no idea -- ask your cab company!


Dave

At 12:45 PM 5/29/2012, you wrote:
>Do you know how I can check to see when this system will be installed in
>cabs in my area?
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of David Andrews
>Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 12:51 PM
>To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [nabs-l] Taxi Technology for Passengers who are Blind or Visually
>Impaired
>
>
> >
> >The following press release is forwarded to you by the Great Lakes ADA
> >  Center (
> ><http://www.adagreatlakes.org>www.adagreatlakes.org
> >) for your information:
> >Press Release:
> >Taxi Technology for Passengers who are Blind or Visually Impaired
> >Contact: Don Hoffman (Lighthouse), 212-981-5118
> >Partnership leads to accessibility improvements for blind and visually
> >  impaired taxi
> >riders in New York and around the nation
> >April 17, 2012, New York - In partnership with Creative Mobile
> >  Technologies (CMT)
> >and Lighthouse International, Council Member James Vacca, Chair of the
> >  Council Transportation
> >Committee, and former New York Governor David A. Paterson today announced
> >  groundbreaking
> >software enhancements designed to enable blind and visually impaired taxi
> >  riders
> >to independently access the credit card payment system and other
> >  technology features
> >in New York's yellow medallion taxicabs as well as taxi fleets around the
> >  nation.
> >CMT created adaptive software that will allow blind or visually impaired
> >  taxi passengers
> >to hear the fare changing in regular intervals during the trip and
> >  facilitate all
> >aspects of the credit card or cash payment functions upon reaching their
> >  destination,
> >including selection of payment options, verification of fare and selection
> >  of tip
> >percentages. CMT's audible touch screen system, which can be activated by
> >  a special
> >card or by simply asking the driver, will transform the screen into large,
> >  easy-to-navigate
> >sections that are operated by touch and prompted by step-by-step spoken
> >  instructions.
> >"I consistently hear that New York City is one of the most difficult
> >  places for blind
> >and visually impaired individuals to navigate," said Vacca. The payment
> >  system in
> >taxicabs has been a great improvement for passengers, and visually
> >  impaired riders
> >deserve to enjoy the same benefits of that system. This nationwide
> >  initiative to
> >make taxis more accessible for visually impaired riders is a major
> >  achievement, both
> >for the industry, and for this community. I want to commend CMT and
> >  Lighthouse for
> >making this a priority. This technology will make a real difference for
> >  people who
> >need it."
> >This software is critical to the blind and visually impaired community's
> >  ability
> >to independently pay taxi fares. Prior to implementation of this new
> >  software, blind
> >and visually impaired passengers who chose to use credit cards were forced
> >  to rely
> >on cab drivers to swipe their card and enter the correct amount, including
> >  tip. Not
> >only is this a violation of current TLC rules, but also it exposes the
> >  visually impaired
> >passenger to the potential for fraudulent transactions, including
> >  overpayment.
> >"As a blind New Yorker I am part of a community that until now did not
> >  benefit from
> >the convenience of being able to use a credit card in the city's cabs when
> >  the technology
> >was first mandated in 2008," said David A.Paterson, 55th Governor of the
> >  State of
> >New York. "I applaud CMT for extending electronic payment to an often
> >  underserved
> >community by making New York City taxis independently accessible for the
> >  vision impaired.
> >Council Member James Vacca and Lighthouse International also deserve a
> >  great deal
> >of gratitude for their undying stewardship of this significant issue."
> >In addition to its NYC rollout, CMT also plans to introduce software in
> >  4,500 credit
> >card and payment systems in taxis around the country including Chicago,
> >  Boston, San
> >Francisco, Philadelphia, Anaheim, Detroit, Kansas City, Columbus and
> >  Charlotte.
> >CMT and Lighthouse International will issue blind and visually impaired
> >  individuals
> >a card, compatible with any CMT taxi nationwide, that will activate the
> >  adaptive
> >software, though an activation card will not be required to engage the
> >  system.
> >"CMT is excited to work alongside Chairman Vacca and Lighthouse
> >  International to
> >produce these innovative software solutions that will revolutionize the
> >  taxi experience
> >for our blind and visually impaired customers," said Jesse H. Davis,
> >  President of
> >Creative Mobile Technologies. "We are very proud of the CMT team for
> >  developing
> >this innovative technology, and we praise the hard working advocates at
> >  Lighthouse
> >International who provided us with invaluable feedback in shaping its
> >  development
> >and to Chairman Vacca who has demonstrated great leadership on this issue.
> >  We look
> >forward to rolling out this feature in New York City and in CMT markets
> >  throughout
> >the nation."
> >"This is an excellent example of the private sector working with
> >  government leaders
> >and advocates to voluntarily change a system that has excluded the
> >  independent participation
> >of thousands of people who are blind or visually impaired for far too
> >  long," said
> >Mark G. Ackermann, President and CEO of Lighthouse International. "We are
> >  delighted
> >to have played a role in this nationwide initiative and will continue
> >  working to
> >ensure that every taxi in the nation is accessible to people with a visual
> >  impairment.
> >Many thanks to Council Member James Vacca for his continued leadership on
> >  behalf
> >of people who are blind and visually impaired and to Creative Mobile
> >  Technologies
> >for their willingness to make this a reality."
> >"Having a credit card system that talks will make riding in a taxi more
> >  accessible,
> >enabling me to pay by credit card independently. I applaud the efforts of
> >  Council
> >Member Vacca and Creative Mobile Technologies for making this possible,"
> >  said Ellen
> >Rubin, independent access consultant.
> >"We applaud this innovation, which we believe will enhance the ability of
> >  visually
> >impaired New Yorkers to more independently use taxis and to pay for their
> >  trips with
> >credit and debit cards," said Commissioner David Yassky, Chairman of the
> >  Taxi and
> >Limousine Commission. "This is another good example of leveraging
> >  technology to help
> >overcome barriers to accessibility, and we look forward to working with
> >  the tech
> >community to bring further innovation to taxis with the goal of making
> >  taxis more
> >accessible to everyone."
> >Lighthouse International estimates that the prevalence rate of vision loss
> >  in New
> >York City is 362,000. This number will only increase because of the aging
> >  population
> >and age-related causes of visual impairment and blindness, as well as
> >  blindness due
> >to uncontrolled diabetes.
> >This announcement is the latest in a string of pro-accessibility measures
> >  championed
> >by Vacca, whose own father was blind. On March 28, the New York City
> >  Council passed
> >three bills aimed at improving mobility for blind and low vision
> >  individuals navigating
> >the city. Vacca's bill, Introduction 745, requires the Department of
> >  Transportation
> >to post maps of major street redesigns on its website in a format
> >  accessible for
> >people with sight and hearing disabilities. Lighthouse International
> >  played a major
> >role in securing the passage of this legislation, which Mayor Bloomberg
> >  will sign
> >today at 5 p.m. in the Governor's Room at City Hall.
> >*About Lighthouse International:*
> >Founded in 1905, Lighthouse International is a leading non-profit
> >  organization dedicated
> >to fighting vision loss through prevention, treatment and empowerment. It
> >  achieves
> >this through clinical and rehabilitation services, education, research and
> >  advocacy.
> >For more information about vision loss and its causes, contact Lighthouse
> >  International
> >at 1-800-829-0500 or visit
> ><http://www.lighthouse.org>www.lighthouse.org
> >.
> >*About Creative Mobile Technologies (CMT):* Founded in New York City in
> >  2005 by taxi
> >industry leaders, Creative Mobile Technologies (CMT) provides more than
> >  20,000 taxicabs
> >in 60 cities and 35 states with a variety of taxi technologies and
> >  enhancements including
> >credit and debit card processing, media and advertising content, text
> >  messaging,
> >interactive passengers maps, GPS, electronic trip sheets and back-office
> >  fleet management
> >systems. CMT has more than 6,600 units in New York City alone. CMT's
> >  unique "for
> >the industry, by the industry" business model has empowered taxi fleets
> >  and individual
> >taxi operators throughout the country with customized solutions born out
> >  of the company's
> >deep roots in the taxi industry. CMT's FREEdom Solution integrates all of
> >  the technology
> >including dispatching, banking and media components that has helped to
> >  bring the
> >American taxi industry into a new era of efficiency and innovation.
> >Source:
> ><http://www.lighthouse.org/news/press-releases/vacca>http://www.lighthouse.
>org/news/press-releases/vacca



From dandrews at visi.com  Tue May 29 20:10:07 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 15:10:07 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FCC SEEKING NOMINATIONS FOR THE SECOND ANNUAL CHAIRMAN'S
 AWARDS FOR ADVANCEMENT IN ACCESSIBILITY (CHAIRMAN'S AAA)
Message-ID: <auto-000062311944@mailfront4.g2host.com>


>
>----------
>From: AccessInfo
>Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2012 5:17 PM
>Subject: FCC SEEKING NOMINATIONS FOR THE SECOND ANNUAL CHAIRMAN'S 
>AWARDS FOR ADVANCEMENT IN ACCESSIBILITY (CHAIRMAN'S AAA)
>
>On May 23, 2012, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) 
>announced that it will accept nominations for the Chairman's Awards 
>for Advancement in Accessibility (Chairman's AAA) from May 31, 2012 
>through July 31, 2012 for products, services, technologies or 
>practices introduced to the public between July 31, 2011 and July 31, 2012. The
>
>Chairman's AAA is an FCC project coordinated by the Commission's 
>Accessibility and Innovation Initiative (A&I Initiative) that 
>recognizes cutting-edge private and public sector ventures designed 
>to advance accessibility for people with disabilities, and 
>mainstream technological innovations that are accessible to persons 
>with disabilities. These remarkable ventures include, for example, 
>the development of individual mainstream or assistive technologies 
>introduced into the marketplace, the development of standards, and 
>the implementation of best practices that foster accessibility. The 
>Chairman's AAA is designed to recognize the efforts of individuals, 
>organizations, academics, companies, students and government 
>agencies to make communication tools easier to use and more 
>accessible to people with disabilities and to encourage 
>technological innovation and accessibility in communications-related 
>areas.  The Chairman's AAA also identifies technology and innovation 
>trends to the marketplace.
>
>
>
>Nominations will be accepted in the following seven categories: 
>Education: College/University; Deaf-Blind Solutions; Video 
>Programming Device Solutions; Geo-location Solutions; Mobile Apps; 
>Consumer Empowerment Information; and Civic Participation Solutions.
>
>
>
>In conjunction with the Chairman's AAA, the FCC will display and 
>highlight new, accessible and cutting-edge communications 
>technologies in its Technology Experience Center (TEC) throughout 
>October 2012. We invite all nominees and others who are interested 
>in displaying their accessible innovations at the TEC to contact us 
>at: ChairmansAAA at fcc.gov no later than August 1, 2012.
>
>
>
>The Chairman's AAA is open to the public and there is no cost to 
>attend.  Advanced registration is highly recommended, but not 
>required.  Industry, technologists, innovators, apps developers, 
>persons with disabilities, advocates and government officials are 
>encouraged to attend to explore the latest innovations in 
>accessibility and communications technologies.
>
>
>
>FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski will recognize winners and honorable 
>mentions at a
>
>ceremony held in October 2012 at the FCC's Headquarters, Commission 
>Meeting Room
>
>(TW-C305) at 445 12th Street, SW, Washington, DC, 20554 (closest 
>metro: Smithsonian).
>
>
>
>October is the anniversary of the enactment of the Twenty-First 
>Century Communications and Video Accessibility Act (CVAA) and 
>National Disability Employment Awareness Month. The ceremony also 
>will be webcast at www.fcc.gov/live. The event will be followed by 
>demonstrations of the winning technologies at the Commission's 
>Technology Experience Center (TEC). Nominations may be 
>self-nominated or made by a third party. The nomination should 
>include a brief description of the innovation, identification of the 
>category of innovation, the date the innovation was introduced and 
>why the innovation qualifies for the Chairman's Award. Please send 
>all nominations to: ChairmansAAA at fcc.gov, between 12:01 AM May 31, 
>2012 and 11:59 PM July 31, 2012.
>
>
>
>The date of the Chairman's AAA ceremony will be announced at a later 
>date.  If you would like to pre-register for the event, please send 
>your name, affiliation and contact information to 
><mailto:ChairmansAAA at fcc.gov>ChairmansAAA at fcc.gov.
>
>
>
>Reasonable accommodations for people with disabilities are available 
>upon request. The request should include a detailed description of 
>the accommodation needed and the requestor's contact information. 
>Requests for accommodations should be made as soon as possible. To 
>request an accommodation, send an email to fcc504 at fcc.gov or call 
>the Consumer and Governmental Affairs Bureau at 202-418-0530 
>(voice), 202-418-0432 (TTY).
>
>For questions or inquiries about the Chairman's AAA ceremony please 
>contact Pam Gregory, Director, Accessibility and Innovation 
>Initiative, (202) 418-2498 voice, (202) 418-1169 TTY, or (845) 
>474-0054 video, or Email, Pam.Gregory at fcc.gov or Kelly Jones, (202) 
>418-7078 voice, or Email, Kelly.Jones at fcc.gov. Inquiries may also be 
>sent to ChairmansAAA at fcc.gov.
>
>
>
>For additional information on the Chairman's AAA ceremony, visit:
>
><http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2012/db0523/DA-12-814A1.doc>http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2012/db0523/DA-12-814A1.doc
>
>http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2012/db0523/DA-12-814A1.pdf
>
><http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2012/db0523/DA-12-814A1.txt>http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2012/db0523/DA-12-814A1.txt
>
>
>
>

From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Tue May 29 23:27:16 2012
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 17:27:16 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] ANNOUNCING AMAZING VACATION TRAVEL RAFFLE SPONSORED BY THE
	NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF COLORADO
Message-ID: <000001cd3df2$96c53920$c44fab60$@labarrelaw.com>

Greetings Friends, the National Federation of the Blind is sponsoring an
amazing vacation travel raffle.  The winner of this raffle will receive a
$3500.00 travel certificate which can be used on one dream vacation or on
several different trips.  The winner can use the certificate towards
cruises, hotels, air fare, and anything else that the travel agency can book
for you.  Each ticket is $10 or you can get three tickets for $20.  We will
draw the winner's name on October 27, 2012, at the Annual Banquet  of the
National Federation of the Blind of Colorado.  

 

Tickets are on sale now.  You can contact my assistant, Lisa Bonderson, at
303 504-5979 or lbonderson at labarrelaw.com, and she can arrange for you to
receive tickets.  We can sedn your tickets after we receive a check or
process your credit card transaction.  Soon you will be  able to order your
tickets directly from our website through a web form that we are developing.
Tickets will also be on sale at the national Convention in our affiliate
caucus on the Convention floor and at our table in the exhibit hall.  Buy
now, buy early, and buy often, for your chance at a tremendous travel prize.
Proceeds from this raffle will help the NFB Colorado Scholarship Fund and
the BELL Program.  

 

Yours in Federationism,

 

Scott C. LaBarre, President

 

National Federation of the Blind of Colorado

 

 

Voice, 303 504-5979

Email, slabarre at labarrelaw.com

  


From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Tue May 29 23:34:29 2012
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 17:34:29 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] ANNOUNCING AMAZING VACATION TRAVEL RAFFLE SPONSORED BY
	THE	NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF COLORADO
In-Reply-To: <000001cd3df2$96c53920$c44fab60$@labarrelaw.com>
References: <000001cd3df2$96c53920$c44fab60$@labarrelaw.com>
Message-ID: <001401cd3df3$981d3290$c85797b0$@labarrelaw.com>

Just because it may be a bit confusing at the beginning of the message, this
is an NFB Colorado raffle.
Best,
Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Scott C. LaBarre
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 5:27 PM
To: NFB of Colorado Discussion List; NFB Affiliate Presidents List; NFB
Chapter Presidents discussion list; National Association of Blind Students
mailing list; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: jbeecham at cocenter.org; Lisa Bonderson
Subject: [nabs-l] ANNOUNCING AMAZING VACATION TRAVEL RAFFLE SPONSORED BY THE
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF COLORADO

Greetings Friends, the National Federation of the Blind is sponsoring an
amazing vacation travel raffle.  The winner of this raffle will receive a
$3500.00 travel certificate which can be used on one dream vacation or on
several different trips.  The winner can use the certificate towards
cruises, hotels, air fare, and anything else that the travel agency can book
for you.  Each ticket is $10 or you can get three tickets for $20.  We will
draw the winner's name on October 27, 2012, at the Annual Banquet  of the
National Federation of the Blind of Colorado.  

 

Tickets are on sale now.  You can contact my assistant, Lisa Bonderson, at
303 504-5979 or lbonderson at labarrelaw.com, and she can arrange for you to
receive tickets.  We can sedn your tickets after we receive a check or
process your credit card transaction.  Soon you will be  able to order your
tickets directly from our website through a web form that we are developing.
Tickets will also be on sale at the national Convention in our affiliate
caucus on the Convention floor and at our table in the exhibit hall.  Buy
now, buy early, and buy often, for your chance at a tremendous travel prize.
Proceeds from this raffle will help the NFB Colorado Scholarship Fund and
the BELL Program.  

 

Yours in Federationism,

 

Scott C. LaBarre, President

 

National Federation of the Blind of Colorado

 

 

Voice, 303 504-5979

Email, slabarre at labarrelaw.com

  

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.co
m



From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Tue May 29 23:33:43 2012
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 17:33:43 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] [Chapter-presidents] ANNOUNCING AMAZING VACATION
	TRAVEL RAFFLE	SPONSORED BY THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE
	BLIND OF COLORADO
In-Reply-To: <000001cd3df2$96c53920$c44fab60$@labarrelaw.com>
References: <000001cd3df2$96c53920$c44fab60$@labarrelaw.com>
Message-ID: <000f01cd3df3$7d25a9e0$7770fda0$@labarrelaw.com>

Just because it may be confusing in the beginning, this is an NFB of
Colorado raffle.

Best,

Scott  

 

 

From: chapter-presidents-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:chapter-presidents-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C. LaBarre
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 5:27 PM
To: NFB of Colorado Discussion List; NFB Affiliate Presidents List; NFB
Chapter Presidents discussion list; National Association of Blind Students
mailing list; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: jbeecham at cocenter.org; Lisa Bonderson
Subject: [Chapter-presidents] ANNOUNCING AMAZING VACATION TRAVEL RAFFLE
SPONSORED BY THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF COLORADO

 

Greetings Friends, the National Federation of the Blind is sponsoring an
amazing vacation travel raffle.  The winner of this raffle will receive a
$3500.00 travel certificate which can be used on one dream vacation or on
several different trips.  The winner can use the certificate towards
cruises, hotels, air fare, and anything else that the travel agency can book
for you.  Each ticket is $10 or you can get three tickets for $20.  We will
draw the winner's name on October 27, 2012, at the Annual Banquet  of the
National Federation of the Blind of Colorado.  

 

Tickets are on sale now.  You can contact my assistant, Lisa Bonderson, at
303 504-5979 or lbonderson at labarrelaw.com, and she can arrange for you to
receive tickets.  We can sedn your tickets after we receive a check or
process your credit card transaction.  Soon you will be  able to order your
tickets directly from our website through a web form that we are developing.
Tickets will also be on sale at the national Convention in our affiliate
caucus on the Convention floor and at our table in the exhibit hall.  Buy
now, buy early, and buy often, for your chance at a tremendous travel prize.
Proceeds from this raffle will help the NFB Colorado Scholarship Fund and
the BELL Program.  

 

Yours in Federationism,

 

Scott C. LaBarre, President

 

National Federation of the Blind of Colorado

 

 

Voice, 303 504-5979

Email, slabarre at labarrelaw.com

  


From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Tue May 29 23:35:41 2012
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 17:35:41 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] [NFBAffiliatePresidents] ANNOUNCING AMAZING VACATION
	TRAVEL RAFFLE	SPONSORED BY THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE
	BLIND OF COLORADO
In-Reply-To: <000001cd3df2$96c53920$c44fab60$@labarrelaw.com>
References: <000001cd3df2$96c53920$c44fab60$@labarrelaw.com>
Message-ID: <001501cd3df3$c39e2140$4ada63c0$@labarrelaw.com>

I should have pointed out that you need not be present to win. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nfbaffiliatepresidents-bounces at nfbnet.org
[mailto:nfbaffiliatepresidents-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Scott C.
LaBarre
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 5:27 PM
To: NFB of Colorado Discussion List; NFB Affiliate Presidents List; NFB
Chapter Presidents discussion list; National Association of Blind Students
mailing list; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: jbeecham at cocenter.org; Lisa Bonderson
Subject: [NFBAffiliatePresidents] ANNOUNCING AMAZING VACATION TRAVEL RAFFLE
SPONSORED BY THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF COLORADO

Greetings Friends, the National Federation of the Blind is sponsoring an
amazing vacation travel raffle.  The winner of this raffle will receive a
$3500.00 travel certificate which can be used on one dream vacation or on
several different trips.  The winner can use the certificate towards
cruises, hotels, air fare, and anything else that the travel agency can book
for you.  Each ticket is $10 or you can get three tickets for $20.  We will
draw the winner's name on October 27, 2012, at the Annual Banquet  of the
National Federation of the Blind of Colorado.  

 

Tickets are on sale now.  You can contact my assistant, Lisa Bonderson, at
303 504-5979 or lbonderson at labarrelaw.com, and she can arrange for you to
receive tickets.  We can sedn your tickets after we receive a check or
process your credit card transaction.  Soon you will be  able to order your
tickets directly from our website through a web form that we are developing.
Tickets will also be on sale at the national Convention in our affiliate
caucus on the Convention floor and at our table in the exhibit hall.  Buy
now, buy early, and buy often, for your chance at a tremendous travel prize.
Proceeds from this raffle will help the NFB Colorado Scholarship Fund and
the BELL Program.  

 

Yours in Federationism,

 

Scott C. LaBarre, President

 

National Federation of the Blind of Colorado

 

 

Voice, 303 504-5979

Email, slabarre at labarrelaw.com

  

_______________________________________________
NFBAffiliatePresidents mailing list
NFBAffiliatePresidents at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nfbaffiliatepresidents_nfbnet.org



From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Tue May 29 23:37:57 2012
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 17:37:57 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] ANNOUNCING AMAZING VACATION TRAVEL RAFFLE SPONSORED BY
	THE	NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF COLORADO
In-Reply-To: <000001cd3df2$96c53920$c44fab60$@labarrelaw.com>
References: <000001cd3df2$96c53920$c44fab60$@labarrelaw.com>
Message-ID: <001801cd3df4$149cfe40$3dd6fac0$@labarrelaw.com>

I should have also pointed out that you need not be present at our banquet
to win.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Scott C. LaBarre
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 5:27 PM
To: NFB of Colorado Discussion List; NFB Affiliate Presidents List; NFB
Chapter Presidents discussion list; National Association of Blind Students
mailing list; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: jbeecham at cocenter.org; Lisa Bonderson
Subject: [nabs-l] ANNOUNCING AMAZING VACATION TRAVEL RAFFLE SPONSORED BY THE
NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF COLORADO

Greetings Friends, the National Federation of the Blind is sponsoring an
amazing vacation travel raffle.  The winner of this raffle will receive a
$3500.00 travel certificate which can be used on one dream vacation or on
several different trips.  The winner can use the certificate towards
cruises, hotels, air fare, and anything else that the travel agency can book
for you.  Each ticket is $10 or you can get three tickets for $20.  We will
draw the winner's name on October 27, 2012, at the Annual Banquet  of the
National Federation of the Blind of Colorado.  

 

Tickets are on sale now.  You can contact my assistant, Lisa Bonderson, at
303 504-5979 or lbonderson at labarrelaw.com, and she can arrange for you to
receive tickets.  We can sedn your tickets after we receive a check or
process your credit card transaction.  Soon you will be  able to order your
tickets directly from our website through a web form that we are developing.
Tickets will also be on sale at the national Convention in our affiliate
caucus on the Convention floor and at our table in the exhibit hall.  Buy
now, buy early, and buy often, for your chance at a tremendous travel prize.
Proceeds from this raffle will help the NFB Colorado Scholarship Fund and
the BELL Program.  

 

Yours in Federationism,

 

Scott C. LaBarre, President

 

National Federation of the Blind of Colorado

 

 

Voice, 303 504-5979

Email, slabarre at labarrelaw.com

  

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/slabarre%40labarrelaw.co
m



From slabarre at labarrelaw.com  Tue May 29 23:43:06 2012
From: slabarre at labarrelaw.com (Scott C. LaBarre)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 17:43:06 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] ANNOUNCING AMAZING VACATION TRAVEL RAFFLE SPONSORED BY
	THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF COLORADO
Message-ID: <001901cd3df4$cd0a6ee0$671f4ca0$@labarrelaw.com>

I should have pointed out winner need not be present at our banquet to win.


Thanks,

Scott

 

From: Scott C. LaBarre [mailto:slabarre at labarrelaw.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 5:27 PM
To: NFB of Colorado Discussion List; NFB Affiliate Presidents List; NFB
Chapter Presidents discussion list; National Association of Blind Students
mailing list; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
Cc: Lisa Bonderson; jbeecham at cocenter.org
Subject: ANNOUNCING AMAZING VACATION TRAVEL RAFFLE SPONSORED BY THE NATIONAL
FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF COLORADO

 

Greetings Friends, the National Federation of the Blind is sponsoring an
amazing vacation travel raffle.  The winner of this raffle will receive a
$3500.00 travel certificate which can be used on one dream vacation or on
several different trips.  The winner can use the certificate towards
cruises, hotels, air fare, and anything else that the travel agency can book
for you.  Each ticket is $10 or you can get three tickets for $20.  We will
draw the winner's name on October 27, 2012, at the Annual Banquet  of the
National Federation of the Blind of Colorado.  

 

Tickets are on sale now.  You can contact my assistant, Lisa Bonderson, at
303 504-5979 or lbonderson at labarrelaw.com, and she can arrange for you to
receive tickets.  We can sedn your tickets after we receive a check or
process your credit card transaction.  Soon you will be  able to order your
tickets directly from our website through a web form that we are developing.
Tickets will also be on sale at the national Convention in our affiliate
caucus on the Convention floor and at our table in the exhibit hall.  Buy
now, buy early, and buy often, for your chance at a tremendous travel prize.
Proceeds from this raffle will help the NFB Colorado Scholarship Fund and
the BELL Program.  

 

Yours in Federationism,

 

Scott C. LaBarre, President

 

National Federation of the Blind of Colorado

 

 

Voice, 303 504-5979

Email, slabarre at labarrelaw.com

  


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Wed May 30 00:05:50 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 18:05:50 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Taxi Technology for Passengers who are Blind or
	Visually Impaired
In-Reply-To: <auto-000062308892@mailfront4.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000062936371@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<04ff01cd3dc2$e25d5690$a71803b0$@yahoo.com>
	<auto-000062308892@mailfront4.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJAgaC_90Z8SWaoGiJ5D8ck0vy8ZQ6x-p0dVxLFrbyW3oA@mail.gmail.com>

I think this is a really awesome idea and probably the best example of
new technology for the blind that I've heard about in a long time. My
sister lives in Brooklyn and one time when I took a cab from the
airport to her house, the cab driver refused to swipe my card because
he said he wasn't allowed to. Since the machine was inaccessible my
sister had to come downstairs and run my credit card for me. If I
hadn't been going to meet up with someone sighted I wouldn't have been
able to pay my fare without stopping at an ATM and running the meter
even higher. The talking meters also sound really cool. Finally, I am
excited to think about the kinds of accessible touch-screen devices
that might be inspired by this invention, such as airport kiosks,
checkouts at the grocery store where you have to enter your ATM PIN,
DVD players, etc.
Arielle

On 5/29/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
> I have no idea -- ask your cab company!
>
>
> Dave
>
> At 12:45 PM 5/29/2012, you wrote:
>>Do you know how I can check to see when this system will be installed in
>>cabs in my area?
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>>Of David Andrews
>>Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 12:51 PM
>>To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>Subject: [nabs-l] Taxi Technology for Passengers who are Blind or Visually
>>Impaired
>>
>>
>> >
>> >The following press release is forwarded to you by the Great Lakes ADA
>> >  Center (
>> ><http://www.adagreatlakes.org>www.adagreatlakes.org
>> >) for your information:
>> >Press Release:
>> >Taxi Technology for Passengers who are Blind or Visually Impaired
>> >Contact: Don Hoffman (Lighthouse), 212-981-5118
>> >Partnership leads to accessibility improvements for blind and visually
>> >  impaired taxi
>> >riders in New York and around the nation
>> >April 17, 2012, New York - In partnership with Creative Mobile
>> >  Technologies (CMT)
>> >and Lighthouse International, Council Member James Vacca, Chair of the
>> >  Council Transportation
>> >Committee, and former New York Governor David A. Paterson today
>> > announced
>> >  groundbreaking
>> >software enhancements designed to enable blind and visually impaired
>> > taxi
>> >  riders
>> >to independently access the credit card payment system and other
>> >  technology features
>> >in New York's yellow medallion taxicabs as well as taxi fleets around
>> > the
>> >  nation.
>> >CMT created adaptive software that will allow blind or visually impaired
>> >  taxi passengers
>> >to hear the fare changing in regular intervals during the trip and
>> >  facilitate all
>> >aspects of the credit card or cash payment functions upon reaching their
>> >  destination,
>> >including selection of payment options, verification of fare and
>> > selection
>> >  of tip
>> >percentages. CMT's audible touch screen system, which can be activated
>> > by
>> >  a special
>> >card or by simply asking the driver, will transform the screen into
>> > large,
>> >  easy-to-navigate
>> >sections that are operated by touch and prompted by step-by-step spoken
>> >  instructions.
>> >"I consistently hear that New York City is one of the most difficult
>> >  places for blind
>> >and visually impaired individuals to navigate," said Vacca. The payment
>> >  system in
>> >taxicabs has been a great improvement for passengers, and visually
>> >  impaired riders
>> >deserve to enjoy the same benefits of that system. This nationwide
>> >  initiative to
>> >make taxis more accessible for visually impaired riders is a major
>> >  achievement, both
>> >for the industry, and for this community. I want to commend CMT and
>> >  Lighthouse for
>> >making this a priority. This technology will make a real difference for
>> >  people who
>> >need it."
>> >This software is critical to the blind and visually impaired community's
>> >  ability
>> >to independently pay taxi fares. Prior to implementation of this new
>> >  software, blind
>> >and visually impaired passengers who chose to use credit cards were
>> > forced
>> >  to rely
>> >on cab drivers to swipe their card and enter the correct amount,
>> > including
>> >  tip. Not
>> >only is this a violation of current TLC rules, but also it exposes the
>> >  visually impaired
>> >passenger to the potential for fraudulent transactions, including
>> >  overpayment.
>> >"As a blind New Yorker I am part of a community that until now did not
>> >  benefit from
>> >the convenience of being able to use a credit card in the city's cabs
>> > when
>> >  the technology
>> >was first mandated in 2008," said David A.Paterson, 55th Governor of the
>> >  State of
>> >New York. "I applaud CMT for extending electronic payment to an often
>> >  underserved
>> >community by making New York City taxis independently accessible for the
>> >  vision impaired.
>> >Council Member James Vacca and Lighthouse International also deserve a
>> >  great deal
>> >of gratitude for their undying stewardship of this significant issue."
>> >In addition to its NYC rollout, CMT also plans to introduce software in
>> >  4,500 credit
>> >card and payment systems in taxis around the country including Chicago,
>> >  Boston, San
>> >Francisco, Philadelphia, Anaheim, Detroit, Kansas City, Columbus and
>> >  Charlotte.
>> >CMT and Lighthouse International will issue blind and visually impaired
>> >  individuals
>> >a card, compatible with any CMT taxi nationwide, that will activate the
>> >  adaptive
>> >software, though an activation card will not be required to engage the
>> >  system.
>> >"CMT is excited to work alongside Chairman Vacca and Lighthouse
>> >  International to
>> >produce these innovative software solutions that will revolutionize the
>> >  taxi experience
>> >for our blind and visually impaired customers," said Jesse H. Davis,
>> >  President of
>> >Creative Mobile Technologies. "We are very proud of the CMT team for
>> >  developing
>> >this innovative technology, and we praise the hard working advocates at
>> >  Lighthouse
>> >International who provided us with invaluable feedback in shaping its
>> >  development
>> >and to Chairman Vacca who has demonstrated great leadership on this
>> > issue.
>> >  We look
>> >forward to rolling out this feature in New York City and in CMT markets
>> >  throughout
>> >the nation."
>> >"This is an excellent example of the private sector working with
>> >  government leaders
>> >and advocates to voluntarily change a system that has excluded the
>> >  independent participation
>> >of thousands of people who are blind or visually impaired for far too
>> >  long," said
>> >Mark G. Ackermann, President and CEO of Lighthouse International. "We
>> > are
>> >  delighted
>> >to have played a role in this nationwide initiative and will continue
>> >  working to
>> >ensure that every taxi in the nation is accessible to people with a
>> > visual
>> >  impairment.
>> >Many thanks to Council Member James Vacca for his continued leadership
>> > on
>> >  behalf
>> >of people who are blind and visually impaired and to Creative Mobile
>> >  Technologies
>> >for their willingness to make this a reality."
>> >"Having a credit card system that talks will make riding in a taxi more
>> >  accessible,
>> >enabling me to pay by credit card independently. I applaud the efforts
>> > of
>> >  Council
>> >Member Vacca and Creative Mobile Technologies for making this possible,"
>> >  said Ellen
>> >Rubin, independent access consultant.
>> >"We applaud this innovation, which we believe will enhance the ability
>> > of
>> >  visually
>> >impaired New Yorkers to more independently use taxis and to pay for
>> > their
>> >  trips with
>> >credit and debit cards," said Commissioner David Yassky, Chairman of the
>> >  Taxi and
>> >Limousine Commission. "This is another good example of leveraging
>> >  technology to help
>> >overcome barriers to accessibility, and we look forward to working with
>> >  the tech
>> >community to bring further innovation to taxis with the goal of making
>> >  taxis more
>> >accessible to everyone."
>> >Lighthouse International estimates that the prevalence rate of vision
>> > loss
>> >  in New
>> >York City is 362,000. This number will only increase because of the
>> > aging
>> >  population
>> >and age-related causes of visual impairment and blindness, as well as
>> >  blindness due
>> >to uncontrolled diabetes.
>> >This announcement is the latest in a string of pro-accessibility
>> > measures
>> >  championed
>> >by Vacca, whose own father was blind. On March 28, the New York City
>> >  Council passed
>> >three bills aimed at improving mobility for blind and low vision
>> >  individuals navigating
>> >the city. Vacca's bill, Introduction 745, requires the Department of
>> >  Transportation
>> >to post maps of major street redesigns on its website in a format
>> >  accessible for
>> >people with sight and hearing disabilities. Lighthouse International
>> >  played a major
>> >role in securing the passage of this legislation, which Mayor Bloomberg
>> >  will sign
>> >today at 5 p.m. in the Governor's Room at City Hall.
>> >*About Lighthouse International:*
>> >Founded in 1905, Lighthouse International is a leading non-profit
>> >  organization dedicated
>> >to fighting vision loss through prevention, treatment and empowerment.
>> > It
>> >  achieves
>> >this through clinical and rehabilitation services, education, research
>> > and
>> >  advocacy.
>> >For more information about vision loss and its causes, contact
>> > Lighthouse
>> >  International
>> >at 1-800-829-0500 or visit
>> ><http://www.lighthouse.org>www.lighthouse.org
>> >.
>> >*About Creative Mobile Technologies (CMT):* Founded in New York City in
>> >  2005 by taxi
>> >industry leaders, Creative Mobile Technologies (CMT) provides more than
>> >  20,000 taxicabs
>> >in 60 cities and 35 states with a variety of taxi technologies and
>> >  enhancements including
>> >credit and debit card processing, media and advertising content, text
>> >  messaging,
>> >interactive passengers maps, GPS, electronic trip sheets and back-office
>> >  fleet management
>> >systems. CMT has more than 6,600 units in New York City alone. CMT's
>> >  unique "for
>> >the industry, by the industry" business model has empowered taxi fleets
>> >  and individual
>> >taxi operators throughout the country with customized solutions born out
>> >  of the company's
>> >deep roots in the taxi industry. CMT's FREEdom Solution integrates all
>> > of
>> >  the technology
>> >including dispatching, banking and media components that has helped to
>> >  bring the
>> >American taxi industry into a new era of efficiency and innovation.
>> >Source:
>> ><http://www.lighthouse.org/news/press-releases/vacca>http://www.lighthouse.
>>org/news/press-releases/vacca
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From jty727 at gmail.com  Wed May 30 01:27:00 2012
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 21:27:00 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] ANNOUNCING AMAZING VACATION TRAVEL RAFFLE SPONSORED BY
 THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF COLORADO
In-Reply-To: <001901cd3df4$cd0a6ee0$671f4ca0$@labarrelaw.com>
References: <001901cd3df4$cd0a6ee0$671f4ca0$@labarrelaw.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s7DEWky41pzb01kf_MOiX8ecv8Hw3Bw4zX49kkKxV2XJA@mail.gmail.com>

Do you have to be apart of the NFB of Colorado to participate in this?

On 5/29/12, Scott C. LaBarre <slabarre at labarrelaw.com> wrote:
> I should have pointed out winner need not be present at our banquet to win.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> From: Scott C. LaBarre [mailto:slabarre at labarrelaw.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 5:27 PM
> To: NFB of Colorado Discussion List; NFB Affiliate Presidents List; NFB
> Chapter Presidents discussion list; National Association of Blind Students
> mailing list; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
> Cc: Lisa Bonderson; jbeecham at cocenter.org
> Subject: ANNOUNCING AMAZING VACATION TRAVEL RAFFLE SPONSORED BY THE
> NATIONAL
> FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF COLORADO
>
>
>
> Greetings Friends, the National Federation of the Blind is sponsoring an
> amazing vacation travel raffle.  The winner of this raffle will receive a
> $3500.00 travel certificate which can be used on one dream vacation or on
> several different trips.  The winner can use the certificate towards
> cruises, hotels, air fare, and anything else that the travel agency can
> book
> for you.  Each ticket is $10 or you can get three tickets for $20.  We will
> draw the winner's name on October 27, 2012, at the Annual Banquet  of the
> National Federation of the Blind of Colorado.
>
>
>
> Tickets are on sale now.  You can contact my assistant, Lisa Bonderson, at
> 303 504-5979 or lbonderson at labarrelaw.com, and she can arrange for you to
> receive tickets.  We can sedn your tickets after we receive a check or
> process your credit card transaction.  Soon you will be  able to order your
> tickets directly from our website through a web form that we are
> developing.
> Tickets will also be on sale at the national Convention in our affiliate
> caucus on the Convention floor and at our table in the exhibit hall.  Buy
> now, buy early, and buy often, for your chance at a tremendous travel
> prize.
> Proceeds from this raffle will help the NFB Colorado Scholarship Fund and
> the BELL Program.
>
>
>
> Yours in Federationism,
>
>
>
> Scott C. LaBarre, President
>
>
>
> National Federation of the Blind of Colorado
>
>
>
>
>
> Voice, 303 504-5979
>
> Email, slabarre at labarrelaw.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Wed May 30 01:27:06 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 19:27:06 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] NemeText Math Software
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBket2kwZm3mbHetyomoubaQvHyq-i0NJ1u25wmyrH6VA@mail.gmail.com>

In case any of you haven't heard of this yet...


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: kljh4 <kljh4 at twcny.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 21:16:52 -0400
Subject: Re: [LCA] Re: math question
To: LCA at yahoogroups.com

Arielle,

I've got the feeling that it would be worth getting the word out on this
one!

Lori G.

>From the User's Guide
http://www.accessisoft.com/Nemetex%20Nemeth%20Back-Translator%20Version%202.3.2%20User's%20Guide.htm

Uses of Nemetex
Nemetex Nemeth Back-Translator affords an easy way to print Nemeth Braille
Math that was typed on an electronic Braille notetaker and print it in plain
typeset such that parents, teachers or peers of visually-impaired
mathematicians could read it.  Without AccessiSoft's Nemetex Nemeth
Back-Translator, someone, typically a Braille Transcriber, must
painstakingly inter-line every piece of math homework, project, paper, or
test created in Nemeth.  The Nemetex Nemeth Back-Translator uses a unique
process to examine the content, identify it as either Nemeth or normal text,
and convert it into LaTeX so it can be read by any standard LaTeX-based
editing program, such as TeXnicCenter.  The resulting file could, depending
on the LaTeX program in use, then be hard-copy printed in normal printed
math or saved to a Portable Document Format (PDF) file for electronic
transfer via e-mail or posting/sharing with sighted users.

Nemetex Nemeth Back-Translator Version 2.3.2 includes all mathematics
through Algebra II, Geometry, Trigonometry and pre-Statistics and
pre-Calculus, so it will accommodate the math work of students from the
elementary through the high school level.  The Nemetex Nemeth
Back-Translator is also fully-compatible with JAWS for Windows and
Window-Eyesä screen readers so that visually-impaired authors of math can
use it by themselves or with the help of a sighted transcriber.  Key
benefits include:

·        Runs on Windows-based PCs tested through Windows 7 (no MAC version
available);
·        Screen-readable by JAWS for Windows and Window-Eyes;
·        Runs on any Java-compatible PC;
·        Outputs in LaTeX so that files can be subsequently opened in or
imported into any standard LaTeX-based  publishing/editing software;
·        Converts a mix of Nemeth Braille Math and regular text in the same
file;
·        Works with various types of six-key entry-capable Braille
Notetakers;
·        Effectively handles various types of spatial mathematics such as
matrices and multi-line comparisons; and
·        Identifies most common input Braille errors and provides a summary
of errors which can be saved as a separate file.


-----Original Message-----
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 7:53 PM
To: LCA at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LCA] Re: math question

Hi Tim,
Nemetex didn't exist when I was in AP calculus. What kind of Braille
device did she use with the software? Did she print directly from this
Braille device or use a computer interface?
I'm done with math now (except for stats) but would like to recommend
it to other students if it was a good program.
Arielle

On 5/29/12, Faisal <newyorkyankies at gmail.com> wrote:
> I had taken linear aljebra, differential geometry as well as discrete
> mathematics as part of my computer science major.
>
> Nemeth was extremely limited for those courses, and when I had sent out
> that
> message, I didn't mean it was limited for calculus, I was using calculus
> as
> an example for one of my other points I was making.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: LCA at yahoogroups.com [mailto:LCA at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim
> Pennington
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 1:53 PM
> To: LCA at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [LCA] Re: math question
>
>
>
> Faisal and all:
>
>
>
> You mentioned that "Nemeth only covers a certain level of math before you
> have to start getting creative."
>
>
>
> That's just not true. My daughter finished AP Calculus BC with an A
> average
> this year in high school and met just about all Nemeth codes you could
> think
> of with no problem using the Nemetex translation software to print it out
> for a sighted teacher.
>
>
>
> The student has to learn the Nemeth code, but so what?
>
>
>
> It truly was a piece of cake for her; the same goes for her honors
> chemistry
> and physics. Using the Nemetex software made it just as simple as her
> sighted peers.
>
>
>
> tp
>
>
>
>
>
> Tim Pennington
>
> Cincinnati, OH
>
> Emily, 18, LCA, and Lillie, 14, LCA
>
>
>
>


------------------------------------

To unsubscribe from the LCA listserv, send a blank email to:
LCA-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Wed May 30 01:36:56 2012
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 19:36:56 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] ANNOUNCING AMAZING VACATION TRAVEL RAFFLE SPONSORED BY
 THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF COLORADO
In-Reply-To: <CA+3U9s7DEWky41pzb01kf_MOiX8ecv8Hw3Bw4zX49kkKxV2XJA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001901cd3df4$cd0a6ee0$671f4ca0$@labarrelaw.com>
	<CA+3U9s7DEWky41pzb01kf_MOiX8ecv8Hw3Bw4zX49kkKxV2XJA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJAxpKwDE_6nZX10fkpmewqJ+TNm8T9bwFFXAjc92=eRsg@mail.gmail.com>

Nope, anyone can buy tickets.
Arielle

On 5/29/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Do you have to be apart of the NFB of Colorado to participate in this?
>
> On 5/29/12, Scott C. LaBarre <slabarre at labarrelaw.com> wrote:
>> I should have pointed out winner need not be present at our banquet to
>> win.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Scott C. LaBarre [mailto:slabarre at labarrelaw.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 5:27 PM
>> To: NFB of Colorado Discussion List; NFB Affiliate Presidents List; NFB
>> Chapter Presidents discussion list; National Association of Blind
>> Students
>> mailing list; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>> Cc: Lisa Bonderson; jbeecham at cocenter.org
>> Subject: ANNOUNCING AMAZING VACATION TRAVEL RAFFLE SPONSORED BY THE
>> NATIONAL
>> FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF COLORADO
>>
>>
>>
>> Greetings Friends, the National Federation of the Blind is sponsoring an
>> amazing vacation travel raffle.  The winner of this raffle will receive a
>> $3500.00 travel certificate which can be used on one dream vacation or on
>> several different trips.  The winner can use the certificate towards
>> cruises, hotels, air fare, and anything else that the travel agency can
>> book
>> for you.  Each ticket is $10 or you can get three tickets for $20.  We
>> will
>> draw the winner's name on October 27, 2012, at the Annual Banquet  of the
>> National Federation of the Blind of Colorado.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tickets are on sale now.  You can contact my assistant, Lisa Bonderson,
>> at
>> 303 504-5979 or lbonderson at labarrelaw.com, and she can arrange for you to
>> receive tickets.  We can sedn your tickets after we receive a check or
>> process your credit card transaction.  Soon you will be  able to order
>> your
>> tickets directly from our website through a web form that we are
>> developing.
>> Tickets will also be on sale at the national Convention in our affiliate
>> caucus on the Convention floor and at our table in the exhibit hall.  Buy
>> now, buy early, and buy often, for your chance at a tremendous travel
>> prize.
>> Proceeds from this raffle will help the NFB Colorado Scholarship Fund and
>> the BELL Program.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yours in Federationism,
>>
>>
>>
>> Scott C. LaBarre, President
>>
>>
>>
>> National Federation of the Blind of Colorado
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Voice, 303 504-5979
>>
>> Email, slabarre at labarrelaw.com
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From jordyn2493 at gmail.com  Wed May 30 01:38:07 2012
From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 21:38:07 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] NemeText Math Software
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJBket2kwZm3mbHetyomoubaQvHyq-i0NJ1u25wmyrH6VA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALAYQJBket2kwZm3mbHetyomoubaQvHyq-i0NJ1u25wmyrH6VA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4FC579FF.5090705@gmail.com>

Hey all,
Just a note that this is the software I was talking about on the math 
call. I'm looking forward to trying it out!
Please email me with any experiences you've had with this software; I'm 
very curious about it's performance and experiences other's have had 
with it.
Thanks,
Jordyn
On 5/29/2012 9:27 PM, Arielle Silverman wrote:
> In case any of you haven't heard of this yet...
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: kljh4<kljh4 at twcny.rr.com>
> Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 21:16:52 -0400
> Subject: Re: [LCA] Re: math question
> To: LCA at yahoogroups.com
>
> Arielle,
>
> I've got the feeling that it would be worth getting the word out on this
> one!
>
> Lori G.
>
>  From the User's Guide
> http://www.accessisoft.com/Nemetex%20Nemeth%20Back-Translator%20Version%202.3.2%20User's%20Guide.htm
>
> Uses of Nemetex
> Nemetex Nemeth Back-Translator affords an easy way to print Nemeth Braille
> Math that was typed on an electronic Braille notetaker and print it in plain
> typeset such that parents, teachers or peers of visually-impaired
> mathematicians could read it.  Without AccessiSoft's Nemetex Nemeth
> Back-Translator, someone, typically a Braille Transcriber, must
> painstakingly inter-line every piece of math homework, project, paper, or
> test created in Nemeth.  The Nemetex Nemeth Back-Translator uses a unique
> process to examine the content, identify it as either Nemeth or normal text,
> and convert it into LaTeX so it can be read by any standard LaTeX-based
> editing program, such as TeXnicCenter.  The resulting file could, depending
> on the LaTeX program in use, then be hard-copy printed in normal printed
> math or saved to a Portable Document Format (PDF) file for electronic
> transfer via e-mail or posting/sharing with sighted users.
>
> Nemetex Nemeth Back-Translator Version 2.3.2 includes all mathematics
> through Algebra II, Geometry, Trigonometry and pre-Statistics and
> pre-Calculus, so it will accommodate the math work of students from the
> elementary through the high school level.  The Nemetex Nemeth
> Back-Translator is also fully-compatible with JAWS for Windows and
> Window-Eyesä screen readers so that visually-impaired authors of math can
> use it by themselves or with the help of a sighted transcriber.  Key
> benefits include:
>
> ·        Runs on Windows-based PCs tested through Windows 7 (no MAC version
> available);
> ·        Screen-readable by JAWS for Windows and Window-Eyes;
> ·        Runs on any Java-compatible PC;
> ·        Outputs in LaTeX so that files can be subsequently opened in or
> imported into any standard LaTeX-based  publishing/editing software;
> ·        Converts a mix of Nemeth Braille Math and regular text in the same
> file;
> ·        Works with various types of six-key entry-capable Braille
> Notetakers;
> ·        Effectively handles various types of spatial mathematics such as
> matrices and multi-line comparisons; and
> ·        Identifies most common input Braille errors and provides a summary
> of errors which can be saved as a separate file.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 7:53 PM
> To: LCA at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [LCA] Re: math question
>
> Hi Tim,
> Nemetex didn't exist when I was in AP calculus. What kind of Braille
> device did she use with the software? Did she print directly from this
> Braille device or use a computer interface?
> I'm done with math now (except for stats) but would like to recommend
> it to other students if it was a good program.
> Arielle
>
> On 5/29/12, Faisal<newyorkyankies at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> I had taken linear aljebra, differential geometry as well as discrete
>> mathematics as part of my computer science major.
>>
>> Nemeth was extremely limited for those courses, and when I had sent out
>> that
>> message, I didn't mean it was limited for calculus, I was using calculus
>> as
>> an example for one of my other points I was making.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: LCA at yahoogroups.com [mailto:LCA at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim
>> Pennington
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 1:53 PM
>> To: LCA at yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [LCA] Re: math question
>>
>>
>>
>> Faisal and all:
>>
>>
>>
>> You mentioned that "Nemeth only covers a certain level of math before you
>> have to start getting creative."
>>
>>
>>
>> That's just not true. My daughter finished AP Calculus BC with an A
>> average
>> this year in high school and met just about all Nemeth codes you could
>> think
>> of with no problem using the Nemetex translation software to print it out
>> for a sighted teacher.
>>
>>
>>
>> The student has to learn the Nemeth code, but so what?
>>
>>
>>
>> It truly was a piece of cake for her; the same goes for her honors
>> chemistry
>> and physics. Using the Nemetex software made it just as simple as her
>> sighted peers.
>>
>>
>>
>> tp
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tim Pennington
>>
>> Cincinnati, OH
>>
>> Emily, 18, LCA, and Lillie, 14, LCA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe from the LCA listserv, send a blank email to:
> LCA-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com



From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Wed May 30 01:54:20 2012
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 18:54:20 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] NemeText Math Software
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJBket2kwZm3mbHetyomoubaQvHyq-i0NJ1u25wmyrH6VA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALAYQJBket2kwZm3mbHetyomoubaQvHyq-i0NJ1u25wmyrH6VA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BFD7ECE95EC3459DAFE1F4637A8337F6@HUMBERTOAVILA>

Hello Arielle,

Where can I obtain this piece of software? Is it free of charge? I see alink
there, but that's the user guide.  


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Arielle Silverman
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 6:27 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] NemeText Math Software

In case any of you haven't heard of this yet...


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: kljh4 <kljh4 at twcny.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 21:16:52 -0400
Subject: Re: [LCA] Re: math question
To: LCA at yahoogroups.com

Arielle,

I've got the feeling that it would be worth getting the word out on this
one!

Lori G.

>From the User's Guide
http://www.accessisoft.com/Nemetex%20Nemeth%20Back-Translator%20Version%202.
3.2%20User's%20Guide.htm

Uses of Nemetex
Nemetex Nemeth Back-Translator affords an easy way to print Nemeth Braille
Math that was typed on an electronic Braille notetaker and print it in plain
typeset such that parents, teachers or peers of visually-impaired
mathematicians could read it.  Without AccessiSoft's Nemetex Nemeth
Back-Translator, someone, typically a Braille Transcriber, must
painstakingly inter-line every piece of math homework, project, paper, or
test created in Nemeth.  The Nemetex Nemeth Back-Translator uses a unique
process to examine the content, identify it as either Nemeth or normal text,
and convert it into LaTeX so it can be read by any standard LaTeX-based
editing program, such as TeXnicCenter.  The resulting file could, depending
on the LaTeX program in use, then be hard-copy printed in normal printed
math or saved to a Portable Document Format (PDF) file for electronic
transfer via e-mail or posting/sharing with sighted users.

Nemetex Nemeth Back-Translator Version 2.3.2 includes all mathematics
through Algebra II, Geometry, Trigonometry and pre-Statistics and
pre-Calculus, so it will accommodate the math work of students from the
elementary through the high school level.  The Nemetex Nemeth
Back-Translator is also fully-compatible with JAWS for Windows and
Window-Eyesä screen readers so that visually-impaired authors of math can
use it by themselves or with the help of a sighted transcriber.  Key
benefits include:

·        Runs on Windows-based PCs tested through Windows 7 (no MAC version
available);
·        Screen-readable by JAWS for Windows and Window-Eyes;
·        Runs on any Java-compatible PC;
·        Outputs in LaTeX so that files can be subsequently opened in or
imported into any standard LaTeX-based  publishing/editing software;
·        Converts a mix of Nemeth Braille Math and regular text in the same
file;
·        Works with various types of six-key entry-capable Braille
Notetakers;
·        Effectively handles various types of spatial mathematics such as
matrices and multi-line comparisons; and
·        Identifies most common input Braille errors and provides a summary
of errors which can be saved as a separate file.


-----Original Message-----
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 7:53 PM
To: LCA at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LCA] Re: math question

Hi Tim,
Nemetex didn't exist when I was in AP calculus. What kind of Braille
device did she use with the software? Did she print directly from this
Braille device or use a computer interface?
I'm done with math now (except for stats) but would like to recommend
it to other students if it was a good program.
Arielle

On 5/29/12, Faisal <newyorkyankies at gmail.com> wrote:
> I had taken linear aljebra, differential geometry as well as discrete
> mathematics as part of my computer science major.
>
> Nemeth was extremely limited for those courses, and when I had sent out
> that
> message, I didn't mean it was limited for calculus, I was using calculus
> as
> an example for one of my other points I was making.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: LCA at yahoogroups.com [mailto:LCA at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim
> Pennington
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 1:53 PM
> To: LCA at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [LCA] Re: math question
>
>
>
> Faisal and all:
>
>
>
> You mentioned that "Nemeth only covers a certain level of math before you
> have to start getting creative."
>
>
>
> That's just not true. My daughter finished AP Calculus BC with an A
> average
> this year in high school and met just about all Nemeth codes you could
> think
> of with no problem using the Nemetex translation software to print it out
> for a sighted teacher.
>
>
>
> The student has to learn the Nemeth code, but so what?
>
>
>
> It truly was a piece of cake for her; the same goes for her honors
> chemistry
> and physics. Using the Nemetex software made it just as simple as her
> sighted peers.
>
>
>
> tp
>
>
>
>
>
> Tim Pennington
>
> Cincinnati, OH
>
> Emily, 18, LCA, and Lillie, 14, LCA
>
>
>
>


------------------------------------

To unsubscribe from the LCA listserv, send a blank email to:
LCA-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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mail.com



From anthony at olivero.us  Wed May 30 02:02:26 2012
From: anthony at olivero.us (Tony Olivero)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 21:02:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Taxi Technology for Passengers who are Blind or
	Visually Impaired
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJAgaC_90Z8SWaoGiJ5D8ck0vy8ZQ6x-p0dVxLFrbyW3oA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <auto-000062936371@mailfront3.g2host.com>
	<04ff01cd3dc2$e25d5690$a71803b0$@yahoo.com>
	<auto-000062308892@mailfront4.g2host.com>
	<CALAYQJAgaC_90Z8SWaoGiJ5D8ck0vy8ZQ6x-p0dVxLFrbyW3oA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALQ-rrM-odTJun4_jMHjXv0RnFjfSZ=9N0k9VpK6ztkJTND04A@mail.gmail.com>

I'm excited to see this innovation. I ran into the same "I can't swipe
your card" attitude in Boston when I was traveling on business.
fortunately, a little prodding resolved the issue, but this is a great
step forward in accessible point of sale technology.

reinhard, as for when it might be installed in your area, the way I
read this is it is compatible with point of sale systems manufactured
by CMT only, so it may take a little longer if your company isn't
using one of these terminals. As Dave said, your best bet is to talk
with the company and advocate for such a system.

Tony

On 5/29/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think this is a really awesome idea and probably the best example of
> new technology for the blind that I've heard about in a long time. My
> sister lives in Brooklyn and one time when I took a cab from the
> airport to her house, the cab driver refused to swipe my card because
> he said he wasn't allowed to. Since the machine was inaccessible my
> sister had to come downstairs and run my credit card for me. If I
> hadn't been going to meet up with someone sighted I wouldn't have been
> able to pay my fare without stopping at an ATM and running the meter
> even higher. The talking meters also sound really cool. Finally, I am
> excited to think about the kinds of accessible touch-screen devices
> that might be inspired by this invention, such as airport kiosks,
> checkouts at the grocery store where you have to enter your ATM PIN,
> DVD players, etc.
> Arielle
>
> On 5/29/12, David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com> wrote:
>> I have no idea -- ask your cab company!
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 12:45 PM 5/29/2012, you wrote:
>>>Do you know how I can check to see when this system will be installed in
>>>cabs in my area?
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>>Of David Andrews
>>>Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 12:51 PM
>>>To: david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>>Subject: [nabs-l] Taxi Technology for Passengers who are Blind or
>>> Visually
>>>Impaired
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> >The following press release is forwarded to you by the Great Lakes ADA
>>> >  Center (
>>> ><http://www.adagreatlakes.org>www.adagreatlakes.org
>>> >) for your information:
>>> >Press Release:
>>> >Taxi Technology for Passengers who are Blind or Visually Impaired
>>> >Contact: Don Hoffman (Lighthouse), 212-981-5118
>>> >Partnership leads to accessibility improvements for blind and visually
>>> >  impaired taxi
>>> >riders in New York and around the nation
>>> >April 17, 2012, New York - In partnership with Creative Mobile
>>> >  Technologies (CMT)
>>> >and Lighthouse International, Council Member James Vacca, Chair of the
>>> >  Council Transportation
>>> >Committee, and former New York Governor David A. Paterson today
>>> > announced
>>> >  groundbreaking
>>> >software enhancements designed to enable blind and visually impaired
>>> > taxi
>>> >  riders
>>> >to independently access the credit card payment system and other
>>> >  technology features
>>> >in New York's yellow medallion taxicabs as well as taxi fleets around
>>> > the
>>> >  nation.
>>> >CMT created adaptive software that will allow blind or visually
>>> > impaired
>>> >  taxi passengers
>>> >to hear the fare changing in regular intervals during the trip and
>>> >  facilitate all
>>> >aspects of the credit card or cash payment functions upon reaching
>>> > their
>>> >  destination,
>>> >including selection of payment options, verification of fare and
>>> > selection
>>> >  of tip
>>> >percentages. CMT's audible touch screen system, which can be activated
>>> > by
>>> >  a special
>>> >card or by simply asking the driver, will transform the screen into
>>> > large,
>>> >  easy-to-navigate
>>> >sections that are operated by touch and prompted by step-by-step spoken
>>> >  instructions.
>>> >"I consistently hear that New York City is one of the most difficult
>>> >  places for blind
>>> >and visually impaired individuals to navigate," said Vacca. The payment
>>> >  system in
>>> >taxicabs has been a great improvement for passengers, and visually
>>> >  impaired riders
>>> >deserve to enjoy the same benefits of that system. This nationwide
>>> >  initiative to
>>> >make taxis more accessible for visually impaired riders is a major
>>> >  achievement, both
>>> >for the industry, and for this community. I want to commend CMT and
>>> >  Lighthouse for
>>> >making this a priority. This technology will make a real difference for
>>> >  people who
>>> >need it."
>>> >This software is critical to the blind and visually impaired
>>> > community's
>>> >  ability
>>> >to independently pay taxi fares. Prior to implementation of this new
>>> >  software, blind
>>> >and visually impaired passengers who chose to use credit cards were
>>> > forced
>>> >  to rely
>>> >on cab drivers to swipe their card and enter the correct amount,
>>> > including
>>> >  tip. Not
>>> >only is this a violation of current TLC rules, but also it exposes the
>>> >  visually impaired
>>> >passenger to the potential for fraudulent transactions, including
>>> >  overpayment.
>>> >"As a blind New Yorker I am part of a community that until now did not
>>> >  benefit from
>>> >the convenience of being able to use a credit card in the city's cabs
>>> > when
>>> >  the technology
>>> >was first mandated in 2008," said David A.Paterson, 55th Governor of
>>> > the
>>> >  State of
>>> >New York. "I applaud CMT for extending electronic payment to an often
>>> >  underserved
>>> >community by making New York City taxis independently accessible for
>>> > the
>>> >  vision impaired.
>>> >Council Member James Vacca and Lighthouse International also deserve a
>>> >  great deal
>>> >of gratitude for their undying stewardship of this significant issue."
>>> >In addition to its NYC rollout, CMT also plans to introduce software in
>>> >  4,500 credit
>>> >card and payment systems in taxis around the country including Chicago,
>>> >  Boston, San
>>> >Francisco, Philadelphia, Anaheim, Detroit, Kansas City, Columbus and
>>> >  Charlotte.
>>> >CMT and Lighthouse International will issue blind and visually impaired
>>> >  individuals
>>> >a card, compatible with any CMT taxi nationwide, that will activate the
>>> >  adaptive
>>> >software, though an activation card will not be required to engage the
>>> >  system.
>>> >"CMT is excited to work alongside Chairman Vacca and Lighthouse
>>> >  International to
>>> >produce these innovative software solutions that will revolutionize the
>>> >  taxi experience
>>> >for our blind and visually impaired customers," said Jesse H. Davis,
>>> >  President of
>>> >Creative Mobile Technologies. "We are very proud of the CMT team for
>>> >  developing
>>> >this innovative technology, and we praise the hard working advocates at
>>> >  Lighthouse
>>> >International who provided us with invaluable feedback in shaping its
>>> >  development
>>> >and to Chairman Vacca who has demonstrated great leadership on this
>>> > issue.
>>> >  We look
>>> >forward to rolling out this feature in New York City and in CMT markets
>>> >  throughout
>>> >the nation."
>>> >"This is an excellent example of the private sector working with
>>> >  government leaders
>>> >and advocates to voluntarily change a system that has excluded the
>>> >  independent participation
>>> >of thousands of people who are blind or visually impaired for far too
>>> >  long," said
>>> >Mark G. Ackermann, President and CEO of Lighthouse International. "We
>>> > are
>>> >  delighted
>>> >to have played a role in this nationwide initiative and will continue
>>> >  working to
>>> >ensure that every taxi in the nation is accessible to people with a
>>> > visual
>>> >  impairment.
>>> >Many thanks to Council Member James Vacca for his continued leadership
>>> > on
>>> >  behalf
>>> >of people who are blind and visually impaired and to Creative Mobile
>>> >  Technologies
>>> >for their willingness to make this a reality."
>>> >"Having a credit card system that talks will make riding in a taxi more
>>> >  accessible,
>>> >enabling me to pay by credit card independently. I applaud the efforts
>>> > of
>>> >  Council
>>> >Member Vacca and Creative Mobile Technologies for making this
>>> > possible,"
>>> >  said Ellen
>>> >Rubin, independent access consultant.
>>> >"We applaud this innovation, which we believe will enhance the ability
>>> > of
>>> >  visually
>>> >impaired New Yorkers to more independently use taxis and to pay for
>>> > their
>>> >  trips with
>>> >credit and debit cards," said Commissioner David Yassky, Chairman of
>>> > the
>>> >  Taxi and
>>> >Limousine Commission. "This is another good example of leveraging
>>> >  technology to help
>>> >overcome barriers to accessibility, and we look forward to working with
>>> >  the tech
>>> >community to bring further innovation to taxis with the goal of making
>>> >  taxis more
>>> >accessible to everyone."
>>> >Lighthouse International estimates that the prevalence rate of vision
>>> > loss
>>> >  in New
>>> >York City is 362,000. This number will only increase because of the
>>> > aging
>>> >  population
>>> >and age-related causes of visual impairment and blindness, as well as
>>> >  blindness due
>>> >to uncontrolled diabetes.
>>> >This announcement is the latest in a string of pro-accessibility
>>> > measures
>>> >  championed
>>> >by Vacca, whose own father was blind. On March 28, the New York City
>>> >  Council passed
>>> >three bills aimed at improving mobility for blind and low vision
>>> >  individuals navigating
>>> >the city. Vacca's bill, Introduction 745, requires the Department of
>>> >  Transportation
>>> >to post maps of major street redesigns on its website in a format
>>> >  accessible for
>>> >people with sight and hearing disabilities. Lighthouse International
>>> >  played a major
>>> >role in securing the passage of this legislation, which Mayor Bloomberg
>>> >  will sign
>>> >today at 5 p.m. in the Governor's Room at City Hall.
>>> >*About Lighthouse International:*
>>> >Founded in 1905, Lighthouse International is a leading non-profit
>>> >  organization dedicated
>>> >to fighting vision loss through prevention, treatment and empowerment.
>>> > It
>>> >  achieves
>>> >this through clinical and rehabilitation services, education, research
>>> > and
>>> >  advocacy.
>>> >For more information about vision loss and its causes, contact
>>> > Lighthouse
>>> >  International
>>> >at 1-800-829-0500 or visit
>>> ><http://www.lighthouse.org>www.lighthouse.org
>>> >.
>>> >*About Creative Mobile Technologies (CMT):* Founded in New York City in
>>> >  2005 by taxi
>>> >industry leaders, Creative Mobile Technologies (CMT) provides more than
>>> >  20,000 taxicabs
>>> >in 60 cities and 35 states with a variety of taxi technologies and
>>> >  enhancements including
>>> >credit and debit card processing, media and advertising content, text
>>> >  messaging,
>>> >interactive passengers maps, GPS, electronic trip sheets and
>>> > back-office
>>> >  fleet management
>>> >systems. CMT has more than 6,600 units in New York City alone. CMT's
>>> >  unique "for
>>> >the industry, by the industry" business model has empowered taxi fleets
>>> >  and individual
>>> >taxi operators throughout the country with customized solutions born
>>> > out
>>> >  of the company's
>>> >deep roots in the taxi industry. CMT's FREEdom Solution integrates all
>>> > of
>>> >  the technology
>>> >including dispatching, banking and media components that has helped to
>>> >  bring the
>>> >American taxi industry into a new era of efficiency and innovation.
>>> >Source:
>>> ><http://www.lighthouse.org/news/press-releases/vacca>http://www.lighthouse.
>>>org/news/press-releases/vacca
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/anthony%40olivero.us
>


From dandrews at visi.com  Wed May 30 02:17:19 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 21:17:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] FW: ANNOUNCING AMAZING NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF
 COLORADO TRAVEL RAFFLE
Message-ID: <auto-000063013734@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>From: "Scott C. LaBarre" <slabarre at labarrelaw.com>
>To: <dandrews at nfbnet.org>
>Subject: FW: ANNOUNCING AMAZING NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND 
>OF  COLORADO TRAVEL RAFFLE
>Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 17:57:50 -0600
>Thread-Index: Ac099ft9xtGWml9ASKe6/bdqPzO1TwAADj9gAAAn1sA=
>
>
>
>From: Scott C. LaBarre [mailto:slabarre at labarrelaw.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 5:54 PM
>To: dandrews at visi.net
>Subject: FW: ANNOUNCING AMAZING NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF 
>COLORADO TRAVEL RAFFLE
>
>Dave, please send to all appropriate NFB lists.
>
>Thanks!!
>
>Hope Carlos and Rosa are well.  My monsters are doing great.
>Best,
>Scott
>
>
>From: Scott C. LaBarre [mailto:slabarre at labarrelaw.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 5:53 PM
>To: Lisa Bonderson; 
><mailto:jbeecham at cocenter.org>jbeecham at cocenter.org; 'Michelle 
>Chacon'; <mailto:alabarre at labarretravel.com>alabarre at labarretravel.com
>Subject: ANNOUNCING AMAZING NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF 
>COLORADO TRAVEL RAFFLE
>
>Greetings Friends, the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado 
>is sponsoring an amazing vacation travel raffle.  The winner of this 
>raffle will receive a $3500 travel certificate which can be used on 
>one dream vacation or on several different trips.  The winner can 
>use the certificate towards cruises, hotels, air fare, and anything 
>else that the travel agency can book for you.  Each ticket is $10 or 
>you can get three tickets for $20.  We will draw the winner's name 
>on October 27, 2012, at the Annual Banquet  of the National 
>Federation of the Blind of Colorado and the winner need not be 
>present to win.
>
>Tickets are on sale now.  You can contact my assistant, Lisa 
>Bonderson, at 303 504-5979 or 
><mailto:lbonderson at labarrelaw.com>lbonderson at labarrelaw.com, and she 
>can arrange for you to receive tickets.  We can sedn your tickets 
>after we receive a check or process your credit card 
>transaction.  Soon you will be  able to order your tickets directly 
>from our website through a web form that we are developing.  Tickets 
>will also be on sale at the national Convention in our affiliate 
>caucus on the Convention floor and at our table in the exhibit 
>hall.  Buy now, buy early, and buy often, for your chance at a 
>tremendous travel prize.  Proceeds from this raffle will help the 
>NFB Colorado Scholarship Fund and the BELL Program.
>
>Yours in Federationism,
>
>Scott C. LaBarre, President
>
>National Federation of the Blind of Colorado
>
>
>Voice, 303 504-5979
>Email, <mailto:slabarre at labarrelaw.com>slabarre at labarrelaw.com
>
>

From dandrews at visi.com  Wed May 30 02:22:40 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 21:22:40 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Colorado Raffle
Message-ID: <auto-000063013962@mailfront3.g2host.com>

Please excuse the previous post -- I accidently didn't trim the 
message -- including the personal stuff.

Sorry.

Dave

Here is the uncluttered message:

>
>Greetings Friends, the National Federation of the Blind of Colorado 
>is sponsoring an amazing vacation travel raffle.  The winner of this 
>raffle will receive a $3500 travel certificate which can be used on 
>one dream vacation or on several different trips.  The winner can 
>use the certificate towards cruises, hotels, air fare, and anything 
>else that the travel agency can book for you.  Each ticket is $10 or 
>you can get three tickets for $20.  We will draw the winner's name 
>on October 27, 2012, at the Annual Banquet  of the National 
>Federation of the Blind of Colorado and the winner need not be 
>present to win.
>
>Tickets are on sale now.  You can contact my assistant, Lisa 
>Bonderson, at 303 504-5979 or 
><mailto:lbonderson at labarrelaw.com>lbonderson at labarrelaw.com, and she 
>can arrange for you to receive tickets.  We can sedn your tickets 
>after we receive a check or process your credit card 
>transaction.  Soon you will be  able to order your tickets directly 
>from our website through a web form that we are developing.  Tickets 
>will also be on sale at the national Convention in our affiliate 
>caucus on the Convention floor and at our table in the exhibit 
>hall.  Buy now, buy early, and buy often, for your chance at a 
>tremendous travel prize.  Proceeds from this raffle will help the 
>NFB Colorado Scholarship Fund and the BELL Program.
>
>Yours in Federationism,
>
>Scott C. LaBarre, President
>
>National Federation of the Blind of Colorado
>
>
>Voice, 303 504-5979
>Email, <mailto:slabarre at labarrelaw.com>slabarre at labarrelaw.com
>
>

From jty727 at gmail.com  Wed May 30 02:38:49 2012
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 22:38:49 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] ANNOUNCING AMAZING VACATION TRAVEL RAFFLE SPONSORED BY
 THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF COLORADO
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJAxpKwDE_6nZX10fkpmewqJ+TNm8T9bwFFXAjc92=eRsg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <001901cd3df4$cd0a6ee0$671f4ca0$@labarrelaw.com>
	<CA+3U9s7DEWky41pzb01kf_MOiX8ecv8Hw3Bw4zX49kkKxV2XJA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJAxpKwDE_6nZX10fkpmewqJ+TNm8T9bwFFXAjc92=eRsg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s4TY2P6Vq9=Lym=8n49oKr7Vp4rkeNQuJx-_uJR8SMd3g@mail.gmail.com>

Oh Great!  Thanks,

Justin

On 5/29/12, Arielle Silverman <arielle71 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Nope, anyone can buy tickets.
> Arielle
>
> On 5/29/12, Justin Young <jty727 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Do you have to be apart of the NFB of Colorado to participate in this?
>>
>> On 5/29/12, Scott C. LaBarre <slabarre at labarrelaw.com> wrote:
>>> I should have pointed out winner need not be present at our banquet to
>>> win.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Scott
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Scott C. LaBarre [mailto:slabarre at labarrelaw.com]
>>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 5:27 PM
>>> To: NFB of Colorado Discussion List; NFB Affiliate Presidents List; NFB
>>> Chapter Presidents discussion list; National Association of Blind
>>> Students
>>> mailing list; NFBnet Blind Law Mailing List
>>> Cc: Lisa Bonderson; jbeecham at cocenter.org
>>> Subject: ANNOUNCING AMAZING VACATION TRAVEL RAFFLE SPONSORED BY THE
>>> NATIONAL
>>> FEDERATION OF THE BLIND OF COLORADO
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Greetings Friends, the National Federation of the Blind is sponsoring an
>>> amazing vacation travel raffle.  The winner of this raffle will receive
>>> a
>>> $3500.00 travel certificate which can be used on one dream vacation or
>>> on
>>> several different trips.  The winner can use the certificate towards
>>> cruises, hotels, air fare, and anything else that the travel agency can
>>> book
>>> for you.  Each ticket is $10 or you can get three tickets for $20.  We
>>> will
>>> draw the winner's name on October 27, 2012, at the Annual Banquet  of
>>> the
>>> National Federation of the Blind of Colorado.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tickets are on sale now.  You can contact my assistant, Lisa Bonderson,
>>> at
>>> 303 504-5979 or lbonderson at labarrelaw.com, and she can arrange for you
>>> to
>>> receive tickets.  We can sedn your tickets after we receive a check or
>>> process your credit card transaction.  Soon you will be  able to order
>>> your
>>> tickets directly from our website through a web form that we are
>>> developing.
>>> Tickets will also be on sale at the national Convention in our affiliate
>>> caucus on the Convention floor and at our table in the exhibit hall.
>>> Buy
>>> now, buy early, and buy often, for your chance at a tremendous travel
>>> prize.
>>> Proceeds from this raffle will help the NFB Colorado Scholarship Fund
>>> and
>>> the BELL Program.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yours in Federationism,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Scott C. LaBarre, President
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> National Federation of the Blind of Colorado
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Voice, 303 504-5979
>>>
>>> Email, slabarre at labarrelaw.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From jordyn2493 at gmail.com  Wed May 30 02:48:01 2012
From: jordyn2493 at gmail.com (Jordyn Castor)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 22:48:01 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] NemeText Math Software
In-Reply-To: <BFD7ECE95EC3459DAFE1F4637A8337F6@HUMBERTOAVILA>
References: <CALAYQJBket2kwZm3mbHetyomoubaQvHyq-i0NJ1u25wmyrH6VA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BFD7ECE95EC3459DAFE1F4637A8337F6@HUMBERTOAVILA>
Message-ID: <4FC58A61.6060002@gmail.com>

I believe it's $99. Here's the link:
www.accessisoft.com/nemetex.htm
Jordyn
On 5/29/2012 9:54 PM, Humberto Avila wrote:
> Hello Arielle,
>
> Where can I obtain this piece of software? Is it free of charge? I see alink
> there, but that's the user guide.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 6:27 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] NemeText Math Software
>
> In case any of you haven't heard of this yet...
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: kljh4<kljh4 at twcny.rr.com>
> Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 21:16:52 -0400
> Subject: Re: [LCA] Re: math question
> To: LCA at yahoogroups.com
>
> Arielle,
>
> I've got the feeling that it would be worth getting the word out on this
> one!
>
> Lori G.
>
>  From the User's Guide
> http://www.accessisoft.com/Nemetex%20Nemeth%20Back-Translator%20Version%202.
> 3.2%20User's%20Guide.htm
>
> Uses of Nemetex
> Nemetex Nemeth Back-Translator affords an easy way to print Nemeth Braille
> Math that was typed on an electronic Braille notetaker and print it in plain
> typeset such that parents, teachers or peers of visually-impaired
> mathematicians could read it.  Without AccessiSoft's Nemetex Nemeth
> Back-Translator, someone, typically a Braille Transcriber, must
> painstakingly inter-line every piece of math homework, project, paper, or
> test created in Nemeth.  The Nemetex Nemeth Back-Translator uses a unique
> process to examine the content, identify it as either Nemeth or normal text,
> and convert it into LaTeX so it can be read by any standard LaTeX-based
> editing program, such as TeXnicCenter.  The resulting file could, depending
> on the LaTeX program in use, then be hard-copy printed in normal printed
> math or saved to a Portable Document Format (PDF) file for electronic
> transfer via e-mail or posting/sharing with sighted users.
>
> Nemetex Nemeth Back-Translator Version 2.3.2 includes all mathematics
> through Algebra II, Geometry, Trigonometry and pre-Statistics and
> pre-Calculus, so it will accommodate the math work of students from the
> elementary through the high school level.  The Nemetex Nemeth
> Back-Translator is also fully-compatible with JAWS for Windows and
> Window-Eyesä screen readers so that visually-impaired authors of math can
> use it by themselves or with the help of a sighted transcriber.  Key
> benefits include:
>
> ·        Runs on Windows-based PCs tested through Windows 7 (no MAC version
> available);
> ·        Screen-readable by JAWS for Windows and Window-Eyes;
> ·        Runs on any Java-compatible PC;
> ·        Outputs in LaTeX so that files can be subsequently opened in or
> imported into any standard LaTeX-based  publishing/editing software;
> ·        Converts a mix of Nemeth Braille Math and regular text in the same
> file;
> ·        Works with various types of six-key entry-capable Braille
> Notetakers;
> ·        Effectively handles various types of spatial mathematics such as
> matrices and multi-line comparisons; and
> ·        Identifies most common input Braille errors and provides a summary
> of errors which can be saved as a separate file.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 7:53 PM
> To: LCA at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [LCA] Re: math question
>
> Hi Tim,
> Nemetex didn't exist when I was in AP calculus. What kind of Braille
> device did she use with the software? Did she print directly from this
> Braille device or use a computer interface?
> I'm done with math now (except for stats) but would like to recommend
> it to other students if it was a good program.
> Arielle
>
> On 5/29/12, Faisal<newyorkyankies at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> I had taken linear aljebra, differential geometry as well as discrete
>> mathematics as part of my computer science major.
>>
>> Nemeth was extremely limited for those courses, and when I had sent out
>> that
>> message, I didn't mean it was limited for calculus, I was using calculus
>> as
>> an example for one of my other points I was making.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: LCA at yahoogroups.com [mailto:LCA at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim
>> Pennington
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 1:53 PM
>> To: LCA at yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [LCA] Re: math question
>>
>>
>>
>> Faisal and all:
>>
>>
>>
>> You mentioned that "Nemeth only covers a certain level of math before you
>> have to start getting creative."
>>
>>
>>
>> That's just not true. My daughter finished AP Calculus BC with an A
>> average
>> this year in high school and met just about all Nemeth codes you could
>> think
>> of with no problem using the Nemetex translation software to print it out
>> for a sighted teacher.
>>
>>
>>
>> The student has to learn the Nemeth code, but so what?
>>
>>
>>
>> It truly was a piece of cake for her; the same goes for her honors
>> chemistry
>> and physics. Using the Nemetex software made it just as simple as her
>> sighted peers.
>>
>>
>>
>> tp
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tim Pennington
>>
>> Cincinnati, OH
>>
>> Emily, 18, LCA, and Lillie, 14, LCA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To unsubscribe from the LCA listserv, send a blank email to:
> LCA-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g
> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jordyn2493%40gmail.com



From brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com  Wed May 30 04:16:09 2012
From: brandonkeithbiggs at gmail.com (Brandon Keith Biggs)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 21:16:09 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] NemeText Math Software
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJBket2kwZm3mbHetyomoubaQvHyq-i0NJ1u25wmyrH6VA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALAYQJBket2kwZm3mbHetyomoubaQvHyq-i0NJ1u25wmyrH6VA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E85BA4C1106B42258C937B14A6BA585B@BrandonsLaptop2>

Hello,
I met the girl who developed this, she has given talks all around the Bay 
area. I've not used it, but she's totally blind and was super enthusiastic 
about it. It was developed at the same place as:
http://www.6dot.com/
So I have good feelings about it...
Thanks,

Brandon Keith Biggs
-----Original Message----- 
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 6:27 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] NemeText Math Software

In case any of you haven't heard of this yet...


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: kljh4 <kljh4 at twcny.rr.com>
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 21:16:52 -0400
Subject: Re: [LCA] Re: math question
To: LCA at yahoogroups.com

Arielle,

I've got the feeling that it would be worth getting the word out on this
one!

Lori G.

>From the User's Guide
http://www.accessisoft.com/Nemetex%20Nemeth%20Back-Translator%20Version%202.3.2%20User's%20Guide.htm

Uses of Nemetex
Nemetex Nemeth Back-Translator affords an easy way to print Nemeth Braille
Math that was typed on an electronic Braille notetaker and print it in plain
typeset such that parents, teachers or peers of visually-impaired
mathematicians could read it.  Without AccessiSoft's Nemetex Nemeth
Back-Translator, someone, typically a Braille Transcriber, must
painstakingly inter-line every piece of math homework, project, paper, or
test created in Nemeth.  The Nemetex Nemeth Back-Translator uses a unique
process to examine the content, identify it as either Nemeth or normal text,
and convert it into LaTeX so it can be read by any standard LaTeX-based
editing program, such as TeXnicCenter.  The resulting file could, depending
on the LaTeX program in use, then be hard-copy printed in normal printed
math or saved to a Portable Document Format (PDF) file for electronic
transfer via e-mail or posting/sharing with sighted users.

Nemetex Nemeth Back-Translator Version 2.3.2 includes all mathematics
through Algebra II, Geometry, Trigonometry and pre-Statistics and
pre-Calculus, so it will accommodate the math work of students from the
elementary through the high school level.  The Nemetex Nemeth
Back-Translator is also fully-compatible with JAWS for Windows and
Window-Eyesä screen readers so that visually-impaired authors of math can
use it by themselves or with the help of a sighted transcriber.  Key
benefits include:

·        Runs on Windows-based PCs tested through Windows 7 (no MAC version
available);
·        Screen-readable by JAWS for Windows and Window-Eyes;
·        Runs on any Java-compatible PC;
·        Outputs in LaTeX so that files can be subsequently opened in or
imported into any standard LaTeX-based  publishing/editing software;
·        Converts a mix of Nemeth Braille Math and regular text in the same
file;
·        Works with various types of six-key entry-capable Braille
Notetakers;
·        Effectively handles various types of spatial mathematics such as
matrices and multi-line comparisons; and
·        Identifies most common input Braille errors and provides a summary
of errors which can be saved as a separate file.


-----Original Message-----
From: Arielle Silverman
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 7:53 PM
To: LCA at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LCA] Re: math question

Hi Tim,
Nemetex didn't exist when I was in AP calculus. What kind of Braille
device did she use with the software? Did she print directly from this
Braille device or use a computer interface?
I'm done with math now (except for stats) but would like to recommend
it to other students if it was a good program.
Arielle

On 5/29/12, Faisal <newyorkyankies at gmail.com> wrote:
> I had taken linear aljebra, differential geometry as well as discrete
> mathematics as part of my computer science major.
>
> Nemeth was extremely limited for those courses, and when I had sent out
> that
> message, I didn't mean it was limited for calculus, I was using calculus
> as
> an example for one of my other points I was making.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: LCA at yahoogroups.com [mailto:LCA at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim
> Pennington
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2012 1:53 PM
> To: LCA at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [LCA] Re: math question
>
>
>
> Faisal and all:
>
>
>
> You mentioned that "Nemeth only covers a certain level of math before you
> have to start getting creative."
>
>
>
> That's just not true. My daughter finished AP Calculus BC with an A
> average
> this year in high school and met just about all Nemeth codes you could
> think
> of with no problem using the Nemetex translation software to print it out
> for a sighted teacher.
>
>
>
> The student has to learn the Nemeth code, but so what?
>
>
>
> It truly was a piece of cake for her; the same goes for her honors
> chemistry
> and physics. Using the Nemetex software made it just as simple as her
> sighted peers.
>
>
>
> tp
>
>
>
>
>
> Tim Pennington
>
> Cincinnati, OH
>
> Emily, 18, LCA, and Lillie, 14, LCA
>
>
>
>


------------------------------------

To unsubscribe from the LCA listserv, send a blank email to:
LCA-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.comYahoo! Groups Links

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brandonkeithbiggs%40gmail.com 



From marsha.drenth at gmail.com  Wed May 30 13:18:19 2012
From: marsha.drenth at gmail.com (Marsha Drenth)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 09:18:19 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention Agenda in Calendar Formats
In-Reply-To: <CALQ-rrNrADd3GY-DAMJisgHohUqUgZgLpSsiPCakmYLTYgg+wQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALQ-rrNrADd3GY-DAMJisgHohUqUgZgLpSsiPCakmYLTYgg+wQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A9F51B296E3A444ABF042E1B86C5E380@Cptr233>

Toni, 

Can you give a quick and easy outline of how to get the convention agenda on
an Iphone? Please. Even though I have been using the Iphone for a year now,
I still feel like I am a iphone virgin. LOL you can email me off list,
marsha.drenth at gmail.com to prevent clogging up the list.

Thank you,
Marsha



-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Tony Olivero
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 2:48 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list;
nebraska-students at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention Agenda in Calendar Formats

All:

For those of you who would like to use the convention agenda in
something other than Microsoft Word, here are a few different formats
that I created after putting all the events on a Google Calendar:

iCal (for adding to your Google Calendar, Outlook, or other calendar
program): http://j.mp/LYvrXo
HTML (view in your browser): http://j.mp/LCiH28
Microsoft Excel: http://j.mp/JIWoxN

you can use the iCal link if you use a Google Calendar, or a device
like an iPhone or iPad that supports it, to add the calendar to your
mobile device. If you are using Google Calendar in a web browser,
adding the ical feed will allow you to toggle on and off the display
of the agenda. You can also copy events directly to your calendar, and
not sync the Agenda to your mobile device, but view it in the browser
if you find you need to see what else is happening in addition to your
own plans.

For those of you using iDevices, it is best if you have your google
account added as a Microsoft Exchange account, not a Google Account (I
know, it seems strange, but this will allow you to sync mail,
contacts, and calendars between your phone and Google without using
another app). Once you have done this, you can go to
http://m.google.com/sync (from your phone) to control which items are
synced to your phone.

I know some of this may be confusing if you haven't done it before, so
if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'll certainly try to
help.

Also, be aware that the Texas affiliate has placed the entire agenda,
in an HTML file suitable for computers, mobile phones or notetakers,
on their website at http://j.mp/LMtElc

Tony

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmail.co
m



From chelseap08 at gmail.com  Wed May 30 14:56:57 2012
From: chelseap08 at gmail.com (Chelsea Page)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 09:56:57 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Convention Agenda in Calendar Formats
In-Reply-To: <A9F51B296E3A444ABF042E1B86C5E380@Cptr233>
References: <CALQ-rrNrADd3GY-DAMJisgHohUqUgZgLpSsiPCakmYLTYgg+wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<A9F51B296E3A444ABF042E1B86C5E380@Cptr233>
Message-ID: <4BE97DBF-FE22-48B8-8C59-A29FDBB988F2@gmail.com>

Im in the same boat Marsha.  

Sent from my iPhone

On May 30, 2012, at 8:18 AM, "Marsha Drenth" <marsha.drenth at gmail.com> wrote:

> Toni, 
> 
> Can you give a quick and easy outline of how to get the convention agenda on
> an Iphone? Please. Even though I have been using the Iphone for a year now,
> I still feel like I am a iphone virgin. LOL you can email me off list,
> marsha.drenth at gmail.com to prevent clogging up the list.
> 
> Thank you,
> Marsha
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Tony Olivero
> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2012 2:48 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list;
> nebraska-students at nfbnet.org
> Subject: [nabs-l] Convention Agenda in Calendar Formats
> 
> All:
> 
> For those of you who would like to use the convention agenda in
> something other than Microsoft Word, here are a few different formats
> that I created after putting all the events on a Google Calendar:
> 
> iCal (for adding to your Google Calendar, Outlook, or other calendar
> program): http://j.mp/LYvrXo
> HTML (view in your browser): http://j.mp/LCiH28
> Microsoft Excel: http://j.mp/JIWoxN
> 
> you can use the iCal link if you use a Google Calendar, or a device
> like an iPhone or iPad that supports it, to add the calendar to your
> mobile device. If you are using Google Calendar in a web browser,
> adding the ical feed will allow you to toggle on and off the display
> of the agenda. You can also copy events directly to your calendar, and
> not sync the Agenda to your mobile device, but view it in the browser
> if you find you need to see what else is happening in addition to your
> own plans.
> 
> For those of you using iDevices, it is best if you have your google
> account added as a Microsoft Exchange account, not a Google Account (I
> know, it seems strange, but this will allow you to sync mail,
> contacts, and calendars between your phone and Google without using
> another app). Once you have done this, you can go to
> http://m.google.com/sync (from your phone) to control which items are
> synced to your phone.
> 
> I know some of this may be confusing if you haven't done it before, so
> if you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'll certainly try to
> help.
> 
> Also, be aware that the Texas affiliate has placed the entire agenda,
> in an HTML file suitable for computers, mobile phones or notetakers,
> on their website at http://j.mp/LMtElc
> 
> Tony
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/marsha.drenth%40gmail.co
> m
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chelseap08%40gmail.com


From portillo.jim at gmail.com  Wed May 30 16:26:41 2012
From: portillo.jim at gmail.com (Jim Portillo)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 09:26:41 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] A Great Loss
Message-ID: <4fc64a45.2186440a.2acd.3ad5@mx.google.com>

Hello everyone,

I don't know if this means anything to anyone, so please forgive the email.
I just wanted to tell you about a loss...a huge loss to not only the music
world but also the blindness community.

If anyone is at all interested in any type of Folk or Bluegrass or Roots
type of music, the name Doc Watson will ring a bell.  We lost the mighty
national treasure last night after dealing with health complications for the
past several days.

To many, blind or sighted, Doc was a hero!  He took music to new levels and
kept the old fashion sound and feeling.
He was also a great example to blind folks.  Blindness never stopped him
from achieving his goals.
Doc played the guitar like no other.  He played banjo and other acoustic
stringed instruments as well.  Nobody could pick and sing like Doc.

If nobody is familiar with the work of Doc, then take a little bit of time
and listen to at least a couple of his songs.

What a loss!  Rest in peace, Mighty Doc Watson.
Jim



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Wed May 30 16:42:17 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 11:42:17 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] A Great Loss
In-Reply-To: <4fc64a45.2186440a.2acd.3ad5@mx.google.com>
References: <4fc64a45.2186440a.2acd.3ad5@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOuLZceVf8_yuvJhjhVOv-_kLVRqxDthKjJ830pg8_wPiw@mail.gmail.com>

Wow!
I didn't know he was blind, when I heard him at the Opry, 4 years ago.
I wanted to meet him, but I never did.
I heard about his passing, last night!
How old was he?
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/30/12, Jim Portillo <portillo.jim at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I don't know if this means anything to anyone, so please forgive the email.
> I just wanted to tell you about a loss...a huge loss to not only the music
> world but also the blindness community.
>
> If anyone is at all interested in any type of Folk or Bluegrass or Roots
> type of music, the name Doc Watson will ring a bell.  We lost the mighty
> national treasure last night after dealing with health complications for
> the
> past several days.
>
> To many, blind or sighted, Doc was a hero!  He took music to new levels and
> kept the old fashion sound and feeling.
> He was also a great example to blind folks.  Blindness never stopped him
> from achieving his goals.
> Doc played the guitar like no other.  He played banjo and other acoustic
> stringed instruments as well.  Nobody could pick and sing like Doc.
>
> If nobody is familiar with the work of Doc, then take a little bit of time
> and listen to at least a couple of his songs.
>
> What a loss!  Rest in peace, Mighty Doc Watson.
> Jim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From jty727 at gmail.com  Wed May 30 16:43:14 2012
From: jty727 at gmail.com (Justin Young)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 12:43:14 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] A Great Loss
In-Reply-To: <4fc64a45.2186440a.2acd.3ad5@mx.google.com>
References: <4fc64a45.2186440a.2acd.3ad5@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CA+3U9s6CBYNFJqZemha1Cj3MUqi6zPVwqWKzKdb4+sVaq3bBAw@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you so much for letting us know of this!  About 4 years ago
while in Nashville at a conference I bought 2 of his CDs and loved his
music.  Yes a true loss.

On 5/30/12, Jim Portillo <portillo.jim at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I don't know if this means anything to anyone, so please forgive the email.
> I just wanted to tell you about a loss...a huge loss to not only the music
> world but also the blindness community.
>
> If anyone is at all interested in any type of Folk or Bluegrass or Roots
> type of music, the name Doc Watson will ring a bell.  We lost the mighty
> national treasure last night after dealing with health complications for
> the
> past several days.
>
> To many, blind or sighted, Doc was a hero!  He took music to new levels and
> kept the old fashion sound and feeling.
> He was also a great example to blind folks.  Blindness never stopped him
> from achieving his goals.
> Doc played the guitar like no other.  He played banjo and other acoustic
> stringed instruments as well.  Nobody could pick and sing like Doc.
>
> If nobody is familiar with the work of Doc, then take a little bit of time
> and listen to at least a couple of his songs.
>
> What a loss!  Rest in peace, Mighty Doc Watson.
> Jim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>


From portillo.jim at gmail.com  Wed May 30 16:45:09 2012
From: portillo.jim at gmail.com (Jim Portillo)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 09:45:09 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] A Great Loss
In-Reply-To: <CAO83KOuLZceVf8_yuvJhjhVOv-_kLVRqxDthKjJ830pg8_wPiw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4fc64a45.2186440a.2acd.3ad5@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOuLZceVf8_yuvJhjhVOv-_kLVRqxDthKjJ830pg8_wPiw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4fc64e98.e5e2440a.2aa6.3870@mx.google.com>

89 years old.


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Joshua Lester
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:42 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Great Loss

Wow!
I didn't know he was blind, when I heard him at the Opry, 4 years ago.
I wanted to meet him, but I never did.
I heard about his passing, last night!
How old was he?
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/30/12, Jim Portillo <portillo.jim at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I don't know if this means anything to anyone, so please forgive the
email.
> I just wanted to tell you about a loss...a huge loss to not only the 
> music world but also the blindness community.
>
> If anyone is at all interested in any type of Folk or Bluegrass or 
> Roots type of music, the name Doc Watson will ring a bell.  We lost 
> the mighty national treasure last night after dealing with health 
> complications for the past several days.
>
> To many, blind or sighted, Doc was a hero!  He took music to new 
> levels and kept the old fashion sound and feeling.
> He was also a great example to blind folks.  Blindness never stopped 
> him from achieving his goals.
> Doc played the guitar like no other.  He played banjo and other 
> acoustic stringed instruments as well.  Nobody could pick and sing like
Doc.
>
> If nobody is familiar with the work of Doc, then take a little bit of 
> time and listen to at least a couple of his songs.
>
> What a loss!  Rest in peace, Mighty Doc Watson.
> Jim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
> ents.pccua.edu
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/portillo.jim%40gmail.com



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Wed May 30 17:06:19 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 12:06:19 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] A Great Loss
In-Reply-To: <4fc64e98.e5e2440a.2aa6.3870@mx.google.com>
References: <4fc64a45.2186440a.2acd.3ad5@mx.google.com>
	<CAO83KOuLZceVf8_yuvJhjhVOv-_kLVRqxDthKjJ830pg8_wPiw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4fc64e98.e5e2440a.2aa6.3870@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOs-e56dp-YE9Koj=u7BYYkMy=ew6P4LPN=UCf67tPg3Eg@mail.gmail.com>

I heard, that he fell, a few days ago, and then passed away.
He was a legend!
Please put some Youtube videos of him, here!
I'll post something, on Music Talk.
Thanks, Joshua

On 5/30/12, Jim Portillo <portillo.jim at gmail.com> wrote:
> 89 years old.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Joshua Lester
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:42 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Great Loss
>
> Wow!
> I didn't know he was blind, when I heard him at the Opry, 4 years ago.
> I wanted to meet him, but I never did.
> I heard about his passing, last night!
> How old was he?
> Thanks, Joshua
>
> On 5/30/12, Jim Portillo <portillo.jim at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I don't know if this means anything to anyone, so please forgive the
> email.
>> I just wanted to tell you about a loss...a huge loss to not only the
>> music world but also the blindness community.
>>
>> If anyone is at all interested in any type of Folk or Bluegrass or
>> Roots type of music, the name Doc Watson will ring a bell.  We lost
>> the mighty national treasure last night after dealing with health
>> complications for the past several days.
>>
>> To many, blind or sighted, Doc was a hero!  He took music to new
>> levels and kept the old fashion sound and feeling.
>> He was also a great example to blind folks.  Blindness never stopped
>> him from achieving his goals.
>> Doc played the guitar like no other.  He played banjo and other
>> acoustic stringed instruments as well.  Nobody could pick and sing like
> Doc.
>>
>> If nobody is familiar with the work of Doc, then take a little bit of
>> time and listen to at least a couple of his songs.
>>
>> What a loss!  Rest in peace, Mighty Doc Watson.
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40stud
>> ents.pccua.edu
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/portillo.jim%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlester8462%40students.pccua.edu
>


From nimerjaber1 at gmail.com  Wed May 30 17:41:17 2012
From: nimerjaber1 at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Nimer_M=2E_Jaber=2C_IC=B3?=)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 13:41:17 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: How One FSU Grad Student Intern with AFB's Policy
 Center is Helping Change the World!
In-Reply-To: <AFBDEVWEB1Rqf69aZbL00001cc7@afb.net>
References: <AFBDEVWEB1Rqf69aZbL00001cc7@afb.net>
Message-ID: <CAF2O2Cyy58H+FzRrY0uc6rUPMkK3N7M9D5rKfXije9X8eDyh-A@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: AFB DirectConnect <MRichert at afb.net>
Date: Tue, 29 May 2012 12:36:54 -0400
Subject: How One FSU Grad Student Intern with AFB's Policy Center is
Helping Change the World!
To: AFB Subscriber <afbweb at afb.net>

				
 AFB DirectConnect Letterhead
	    	
	

Extra! Extra! Read All About It!
How One FSU Grad Student Intern with AFB's Policy Center is Helping
Change the World!


For further information, contact:

Mark Richert, Esq.
Director, Public Policy, AFB
(202) 469-6833
MRichert at afb.net <mailto:mrichert at afb.net>

Throughout each year, the AFB Public Policy Center offers internship
opportunities to students enrolled in post-graduate programs leading to
careers in service delivery and/or advocacy for children, working-age
adults, and seniors living with vision loss, including those who may
have additional disabilities. Read the following engaging story of one
intern's brief but rewarding experience.

My Life as an AFB Policy Center Intern

by

Elizabeth Grigg
Candidate, Master of Science in Visual Disabilities
Florida State University

How much would you really expect to learn over the course of a
three-week internship? Do you think you would even be able to get past
the dreaded phone-answering, envelope-stuffing, death by a thousand
paper cuts phase? And yet, I didn’t do any of these things (at least
more than once or twice) during my three-week internship with the
American Foundation for the Blind Public Policy Center.

The Center’s internship program has a suggested length of six weeks, but
I wanted to fit it in between graduate semesters as much as possible,
hence the three-week timeframe. Before I left for DC, I could tell that
some people thought I was wasting my time because of the short amount of
time I’d have. I’ll admit that my own confidence started waning,
especially when I realized I couldn’t really articulate what the
internship duties would be when others asked me about them. So naturally
I started picturing myself buried under piles of paper in some small
office, emerging only to leave at the end of the day. But no matter, I
told myself. It would be a great experience, at the very least because
I’d be hanging around some really brainy lobbyist types - and maybe
they’d share some sordid insights into Washington politics with me.

The first indication that my low expectations were somewhat off the mark
was an email I received the Friday before my start date: the AFB office
was going to the White House for a Champions of Change event, and we
interns (Kathryn D Botsford and I) would be joining the group. Naturally
I posted this exciting news on Facebook at the earliest possible
opportunity. There were some great panel discussions at the event, led
by people with various disabilities who were being honored for their
achievements and work in the STEM fields (that’s science, technology,
engineering, and mathematics). STEM was the first of MANY acronyms that
I heard over the course of this internship. In fact, there should
probably be an intern acronym manual.

The next day was the only real “grunt work” intern day – we had a stack
of nearly a thousand petition cards that people from all across the
country had signed in support of making prescription drug labels
accessible to those who are visually impaired. Our task was to deliver
these petitions to key House members along with a summary of language
that would support this kind of effort. Kathryn and I prepared oral
presentations to tell the staffers in the offices about this proposed
amendment and finished the day knowing that at least two Representatives
committed to support the language as it makes its way through the House
legislative process. We even met two live Representatives:Edolphus
Townes of New York and John Dingell of Michigan. In fact, as of this
writing, we heard that the language of our amendment has just passed on
the other side of the Hill in the Senate. Apparently hard work really
does pay off!

That same week, Kathryn and I began to assist with a massive effort to
help write and edit supporting documentation for the Anne Sullivan Macy
Act, legislation that our field is beginning to rally around that will
improve educational services and results for all students who are blind
or visually impaired. After getting over our initial panic and learning
about exactly what an “elevator speech,” “policy brief,” and “one-pager”
actually involved, we quickly got into the groove of writing, editing,
rewriting, and editing yet again. By the end of the third week we had
finished writing and massaging more than 60 pages of summaries, letters,
website content, and “pitches” that will be used to support the passage
of the Anne Sullivan Macy Act. To help introduce the legislation to
Congress, we joined Mark Richert, AFB’s Director of Public Policy, at
meetings in Senator John Kerry’s and Senator Patricia Murray’s offices.
We provided staffers with handouts we prepared ourselves summarizing the
Macy Act, and we described how the Act would have a practical impact on
real students' lives. To me, the most enlightening aspect of these
meetings was watching an expert like Mark play the political and policy
wonk game with staffers who were very skilled at both deflecting and
dishing out hard questions.

Another event that Kathryn and I helped out with was a photo exhibit
presented by the Council of Schools for the Blind at the Rayburn House
Office Building. The pictures showed students participating in a variety
of Expanded Core Curriculum (ECC) activities, and the exhibit’s purpose
was to educate visitors about the importance of the ECC for students
with visual impairments. We were happy to see staffers and
representatives visit the exhibit, and I was also grateful for the
opportunity to get to know some influential people in the field of
visual impairments who came out to support this effort and who were kind
enough to spend some one-on-one time during the Hill event with me: Lou
Tutt, the Executive Director of AER; Mitch Pomerantz, President of the
American Council of the Blind; Charles Young, President of the Hadley
School for the Blind; Dan Wenzel, the new Youth Services manager for the
Blind Industries and Services of Maryland; and Dr. Eugene McMahon,
Executive Director of the Council of Schools for the Blind.

This probably seems like a lot for three weeks, but that wasn’t even all
of it. Kathryn, Mark, and I also attended Consortium for Citizens with
Disabilities (CCD) task force meetings that addressed education and
technology for people with disabilities. These coalition meetings
provided some insight into how the lobbying and policy-making processes
work, namely slowly and painfully, and with a lot of legwork and
collaboration.

Kathryn and I even went to some events on our own representing AFB; we
attended a US Department of Education “Race to the Top Assessment” team
meeting titled: Lesson Learned on Improving Assessment Accessibility for
Students With Disabilities. Panel members at this meeting gave some
examples of how test items could be made accessible for students with
disabilities, but we were disappointed that the needs of students who
are visually impaired or blind were not really addressed. All the more
reason for people like us to be there and get involved!

The last major event of my internship was going to a meeting with Dr.
Melody Musgrove, the Director of the Office of Special Education
Programs. Mark, Paul Schroder (AFB’s Vice President, Programs and Policy
Group), Kathryn, and I were there. Our goal was to acquaint Dr. Musgrove
with the policy objectives of the Anne Sullivan Macy Act, to advocate
for updating the Education Department’s policy guidance for parents and
educators of students with vision loss, to discuss the need that
students have for braille instruction and appropriate low vision
devices, and to get a report from Dr. Musgrove on the status of the
office’s monitoring program. This was another one of those great
experiences where I was more or less able to be a fly on the wall. What
was said really highlighted my biggest take-away from this entire
perspective-changing experience--

In order to see the changes that we stakeholders want, we need to
communicate with each other and develop consensus, foster relationships
with those in our field in DC who can keep us up-to-date on policy, and
get our changes in at the beginning of the process. I think most people
in the field of visual impairments know how much we tend to play
catch-up, and how much easier it would be if problems like digital
textbook accessibility and other challenges were addressed from the
get-go. As a busy teacher in the field, it will be easy for me to feel
removed from public policy and unaware of how it affects my day-to-day
work. And yet, there are many people working behind the scenes to
improve things and make changes, whether I, the teacher on the front
line, take the time to provide any input or not.

Participating in this internship taught me how important it is to speak
up and get involved, and hopefully my experience motivates you to do
this as well. Or, you could just participate in this internship yourself
and have your own perspective-changing experience.

Liz

PS: Want more information about some of the things we attended or worked
on? Check out the following websites:

Champions of Change event:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/champions/STEM-equality-for-Americans-with-dis
abilities

Consortium for Citizens with Disabilities:

http://c-c-d.org/

US Department of Education Race to the Top Assessment Program:

http://www.ed.gov/category/program/race-top-assessment-program

Council of Schools for the Blind:

http://www.cosb1.org/home

Prescription drug label accessibility:

http://www.help.senate.gov/newsroom/press/release/?id=e1bfeed3-75b8-4945
-81bd-af83bdaec2d3&groups=Chair
<http://www.help.senate.gov/newsroom/press/release/?id=e1bfeed3-75b8-494
5-81bd-af83bdaec2d3&groups=Chair>

Anne Sullivan Macy Act:

http://www.afb.org/MacyAct

Expanded Core Curriculum:

http://www.afb.org/ECC



You can unsubscribe at any time. To remove your name from this mailing
list, or to find out what other newsletters are available from AFB,
visit http://www.afb.org/myAFBNewsletter2.asp.



-- 
Cordially,

Nimer Jaber

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some information about the email you have just read and all
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Registered Linux User 529141.
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To get more information about a free and accessible operating system,
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To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (720)
(251-4530) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly. Thank
you, and have a great day!


From avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com  Wed May 30 21:31:27 2012
From: avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com (Humberto Avila)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 14:31:27 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] A Great Loss
In-Reply-To: <CA+3U9s6CBYNFJqZemha1Cj3MUqi6zPVwqWKzKdb4+sVaq3bBAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4fc64a45.2186440a.2acd.3ad5@mx.google.com>
	<CA+3U9s6CBYNFJqZemha1Cj3MUqi6zPVwqWKzKdb4+sVaq3bBAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7640F3B36C79443FB73EEA94BA9A8B52@HUMBERTOAVILA>

I don't know anything about this guy. So can you please send some mp3 files
or youtube videos of him playing and singing. I would love to hear him.  

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Justin Young
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:43 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Great Loss

Thank you so much for letting us know of this!  About 4 years ago
while in Nashville at a conference I bought 2 of his CDs and loved his
music.  Yes a true loss.

On 5/30/12, Jim Portillo <portillo.jim at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I don't know if this means anything to anyone, so please forgive the
email.
> I just wanted to tell you about a loss...a huge loss to not only the music
> world but also the blindness community.
>
> If anyone is at all interested in any type of Folk or Bluegrass or Roots
> type of music, the name Doc Watson will ring a bell.  We lost the mighty
> national treasure last night after dealing with health complications for
> the
> past several days.
>
> To many, blind or sighted, Doc was a hero!  He took music to new levels
and
> kept the old fashion sound and feeling.
> He was also a great example to blind folks.  Blindness never stopped him
> from achieving his goals.
> Doc played the guitar like no other.  He played banjo and other acoustic
> stringed instruments as well.  Nobody could pick and sing like Doc.
>
> If nobody is familiar with the work of Doc, then take a little bit of time
> and listen to at least a couple of his songs.
>
> What a loss!  Rest in peace, Mighty Doc Watson.
> Jim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Wed May 30 22:06:13 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 17:06:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] A Great Loss
In-Reply-To: <7640F3B36C79443FB73EEA94BA9A8B52@HUMBERTOAVILA>
References: <4fc64a45.2186440a.2acd.3ad5@mx.google.com>
	<CA+3U9s6CBYNFJqZemha1Cj3MUqi6zPVwqWKzKdb4+sVaq3bBAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<7640F3B36C79443FB73EEA94BA9A8B52@HUMBERTOAVILA>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtnkRs0fJDaQeZZXz73jdo34u42PGJ-00CVp-fhYyNMmg@mail.gmail.com>

Here!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyQOCJ4SUSk
It's obvious, that you don't listen to Classic Country, Bluegrass,
Blues, or Folk/Gospel, or you'd have heard his music.
I hope you enjoy this.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/30/12, Humberto Avila <avila.bert.humberto2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know anything about this guy. So can you please send some mp3 files
> or youtube videos of him playing and singing. I would love to hear him.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Justin Young
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:43 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] A Great Loss
>
> Thank you so much for letting us know of this!  About 4 years ago
> while in Nashville at a conference I bought 2 of his CDs and loved his
> music.  Yes a true loss.
>
> On 5/30/12, Jim Portillo <portillo.jim at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I don't know if this means anything to anyone, so please forgive the
> email.
>> I just wanted to tell you about a loss...a huge loss to not only the
>> music
>> world but also the blindness community.
>>
>> If anyone is at all interested in any type of Folk or Bluegrass or Roots
>> type of music, the name Doc Watson will ring a bell.  We lost the mighty
>> national treasure last night after dealing with health complications for
>> the
>> past several days.
>>
>> To many, blind or sighted, Doc was a hero!  He took music to new levels
> and
>> kept the old fashion sound and feeling.
>> He was also a great example to blind folks.  Blindness never stopped him
>> from achieving his goals.
>> Doc played the guitar like no other.  He played banjo and other acoustic
>> stringed instruments as well.  Nobody could pick and sing like Doc.
>>
>> If nobody is familiar with the work of Doc, then take a little bit of
>> time
>> and listen to at least a couple of his songs.
>>
>> What a loss!  Rest in peace, Mighty Doc Watson.
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jty727%40gmail.com
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/avila.bert.humberto2%40g
> mail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed May 30 23:16:19 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 19:16:19 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Course Text
In-Reply-To: <1F639668389B4F08BACB17E7C6167047@Gloria>
References: <1F639668389B4F08BACB17E7C6167047@Gloria>
Message-ID: <5C6EDD25AA9249109B6D1AC0805AB520@OwnerPC>

Hi Gloria,
FYI, you might have a recording service in your area. It would be recorded 
by volunteers, but might be worth a try.
Also, learning ally will record books upon request. You need to give the 
studio two copies of the book. They need a few months notice to meet your 
needs though.

HTH,
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Gloria G
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 12:27 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] Course Text

Hello all,
I was wondering if anyone would be willing to help me find a accessible 
version of the book sited below? I would prefer a audio copy if possible, 
and I have checked learning ali and bookshare, but have had no luck. Please 
see sitation below.
Course Text Info:
Esses, V. M., & Vernon, R. A. (Eds.)  (2008). Explaining the Breakdown if 
Ethnic Relations: Why Neighbors Kill.  Blackwell Publishing.
_______________________________________________
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Wed May 30 23:27:56 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 19:27:56 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Electronnic magazine subscriptions
In-Reply-To: <6A0105F4-76E2-40C1-AED7-F2010F024235@gmail.com>
References: <6A0105F4-76E2-40C1-AED7-F2010F024235@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AD50E8A478E140669F1DD4DBF3D577BC@OwnerPC>

Amanda,
Some of these are available on newsline. People is available through NLS on 
cassette; they will transition to digital soon I hear.
I think you can sign up for the e-text on the magazine website. I'd check 
there I do not know how accessible it would be, but worth a try.
HTH,
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: Amanda
Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2012 5:04 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nabs-l] Electronnic magazine subscriptions

Hi all,
Does anyone know how to subscribe to etext magazines like us, people or in 
touch?
Let me know.

Amanda
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu May 31 00:56:20 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 20:56:20 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] board game adaptations
Message-ID: <25C4130DBDE94328B1FA55CE9D5CCBF6@OwnerPC>

Hi all,

Which board games are adapted for blind people and which have you played? I hope the adapted set has print so you can play with sighted people. Everyone I’d play with is sighted, at least a majority of the time that is the case. I’ll check ILA, independent living aids, to see what they have first. I’m interested in connect four, checkers, chinese checkers, and scrable.

Thanks.

Ashley

From missheather at comcast.net  Thu May 31 01:26:36 2012
From: missheather at comcast.net (Heather Field)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 20:26:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] board game adaptations
In-Reply-To: <25C4130DBDE94328B1FA55CE9D5CCBF6@OwnerPC>
References: <25C4130DBDE94328B1FA55CE9D5CCBF6@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <7C04ADFAA77B44DDBBA48C27B30FDBDD@HeatherAcer>

Hello,
The best prices for most of the games you mentioned are at:
www.futureaids.com
Scrabble is expensive so it doesn't matter where you get it.
Regards,
Heather

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:56 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] board game adaptations

Hi all,

Which board games are adapted for blind people and which have you played? I 
hope the adapted set has print so you can play with sighted people. Everyone 
I’d play with is sighted, at least a majority of the time that is the case. 
I’ll check ILA, independent living aids, to see what they have first. I’m 
interested in connect four, checkers, chinese checkers, and scrable.

Thanks.

Ashley
_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From clb5590 at gmail.com  Thu May 31 01:31:46 2012
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cynthia Bennett)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 18:31:46 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] adapting your own board games
Message-ID: <CACUFQdwOkMfwy_ZETtkHqAmypnOK=FgyS7Jji3coGhgOMv61Mg@mail.gmail.com>

Ashley and all:

I am not familiar with specially-made adapted games for all of the
examples you provided. I do know that you can buy brailled standard
decks of cards, Uno cards, scrabble, and Monopoly though. I will say
that I have been disappointed in the past though. I bought some
standard decks of cards from a blindness store a few years ago, and
when I received the cards, they were in zip-locked bags, not sealed,
and a friend informed me that the 2 decks of cards didn't even look
the same. I am not saying that this accurately represents all
blindness stores or all games (decks of cards can more easily be
adapted in house than many other games), but what I am saying is that
this experience taught me that I paid too much money for something I
could have quickly done myself. But, I was also fortunate to grow up
with a thrifty mother who never spent money when she didn't have to,
and she taught me a lot of cost-effective ways to make things blind
friendly.

So I know that this is a deversion from Ashley's original question,
but I think that many students like me are poor, and I wanted to
enlighten you on some easy things I have done to be able to include
myself in almost every game my sighted friends play.

Depending on the cost of a reader or whether you can find  someone
nice needing service hours, a friend or a parent, you can often adapt
games yourself for much cheaper.

For connect 4, you can put a piece of tape on one of the colored
checkers. So, it would take a sighted person 3 seconds to sort the
checkers into 2 piles, and you could then put tape on all of the
checkers in one pile. For the game of checkers, you would just have to
come up with some differently textured tape to differentiate the king
side of checkers. When you refer to Chinese Checkers, I am pretty sure
that you are referring to the game with marbles. If so, you could
potentially texture the marbles, or use differently shaped beads. You
could attempt to find beads small enough to fit into the nice little
indents on the board. For chess, you could incorporate velcro to help
the pieces stick, but they all feel differently, so they can easily be
differentiated without adaptation. You could just texture one part of
each of the black or white pieces with a piece of tape.

For a deck of cards, it would take a sighted person about 2 minutes to
put the deck in order. If you buy a deck new, chances are, it will
already be in some sort of order. But, if they are not, typically you
would have the sighted person sort them from highest to lowest or vice
versa, and then keep the suits in the same order. For example, the
first 4 cards might be, the 2 of clubs, the 2 of spades, the 2 of
harts, and the 2 of diamonds. And then you would move on to the 3's,
but you would know the order of the suits. You can easily slide the
cards into a perkins. I write the number of the card in nemeth (and
the letter if necessary with no letter sign or capital) first, and
then the first letter of the suit to follow. I do this twice on the
card, on the top left and bottom right corners as the print is placed.
But the great thing about adapting your own games is that if you are
just learning braille, you can make the cards only as advanced as you
can handle. So you could definitely use a different method than I. I
have used a slate for card games, but sometimes it is difficult.
Cards are often just too small for the card slate, and it is difficult
to secure them in a 4-line slate since if you punch through the card,
you can't slate right in the corner. I have seen and adapted several
card games in similar manners. Some examples are Go Fish, Apples to
Apples, Uno, and Skippo.

If you want a scrabble board with clearly indented squareds, then you
can buy the print deluxe edition. You can use dymo tape (I'm not sure
if they have clear, but if they don't, you can buy clear contact
paper), braille the letters and a nemeth point value, cut them, peel
off the backing, and stick them on the print letters. It might be
worth comparing the price of the deluxe scrabble to the adapted one,
but remember you can find some awesome games used online for cheap, so
it might still be cheaper.

For Monopoly, you can buy index cards colored similarly to the paper
money. I personally think that the paper money that comes with the
game is just too flimsy for braille. you can print and braille the
denominations. You can braille the property, chance, and community
chest cards. If they have to be bigger and if this means they can't
fit in their propper place on the board, who cares? You can read them
yourself. You can adapt boards in many ways. Using puff paints and
dymo tape is a good way to outline game piece spaces. If you are
concerned that a board full of houses, hotels, dice, and game pieces
will be difficult to navigate without uprooting them, then you could
incorporate velcro. Although I personally find it easier to touch
lightly.

Using these techniques might mean that you have to build your
collection of adaptive supplies, but the great thing is that most of
these supplies can be found at many stores. And, I think that you will
find that the time you spend will be rewarding. I totally support
buying adapted games, or better yet, asking for them for gifts. But I
think that if you learn to adapt things that are fun for you such as
board games, when you encounter a challenge in math class, and your
teacher doesn't know how to make things tactile, and when your science
tutor has never met a blind person and their mind is completely blank,
you can be proactive and bring out your little craft box and have
supplies and instructions ready.

Cindy

On 5/30/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Which board games are adapted for blind people and which have you played? I
> hope the adapted set has print so you can play with sighted people. Everyone
> I’d play with is sighted, at least a majority of the time that is the case.
> I’ll check ILA, independent living aids, to see what they have first. I’m
> interested in connect four, checkers, chinese checkers, and scrable.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cynthia Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu May 31 01:47:51 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 21:47:51 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] adapting your own board games
In-Reply-To: <CACUFQdwOkMfwy_ZETtkHqAmypnOK=FgyS7Jji3coGhgOMv61Mg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACUFQdwOkMfwy_ZETtkHqAmypnOK=FgyS7Jji3coGhgOMv61Mg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BE969EE7B6DE44678EE273E0A616898F@OwnerPC>

Hi Cindy,
I know people have adapted their own games, but was not sure how. Board 
games are complex usually, except for checkers; its just squares. Other 
games have so many pictures, lines and more cluttered on the board. I guess 
I figured it would be kind of time consuming for me to make every line or 
picture tactile on the board. For cards, I agree it would be a quick and 
easy process though to braille on each card.
If needed, I'd do that. I'd put the number and the initial of the suit on it 
as you did. D for diamonds for instance.

I have bought card decks and did not have the problem you did though with 
braille cards. Mine came in a plastic bag, but they were in order and all 
there.  I have graphic art tape and think that would work for labeling game 
pieces if I opt to label my own game.

Thanks.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Cynthia Bennett
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:31 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] adapting your own board games

Ashley and all:

I am not familiar with specially-made adapted games for all of the
examples you provided. I do know that you can buy brailled standard
decks of cards, Uno cards, scrabble, and Monopoly though. I will say
that I have been disappointed in the past though. I bought some
standard decks of cards from a blindness store a few years ago, and
when I received the cards, they were in zip-locked bags, not sealed,
and a friend informed me that the 2 decks of cards didn't even look
the same. I am not saying that this accurately represents all
blindness stores or all games (decks of cards can more easily be
adapted in house than many other games), but what I am saying is that
this experience taught me that I paid too much money for something I
could have quickly done myself. But, I was also fortunate to grow up
with a thrifty mother who never spent money when she didn't have to,
and she taught me a lot of cost-effective ways to make things blind
friendly.

So I know that this is a deversion from Ashley's original question,
but I think that many students like me are poor, and I wanted to
enlighten you on some easy things I have done to be able to include
myself in almost every game my sighted friends play.

Depending on the cost of a reader or whether you can find  someone
nice needing service hours, a friend or a parent, you can often adapt
games yourself for much cheaper.

For connect 4, you can put a piece of tape on one of the colored
checkers. So, it would take a sighted person 3 seconds to sort the
checkers into 2 piles, and you could then put tape on all of the
checkers in one pile. For the game of checkers, you would just have to
come up with some differently textured tape to differentiate the king
side of checkers. When you refer to Chinese Checkers, I am pretty sure
that you are referring to the game with marbles. If so, you could
potentially texture the marbles, or use differently shaped beads. You
could attempt to find beads small enough to fit into the nice little
indents on the board. For chess, you could incorporate velcro to help
the pieces stick, but they all feel differently, so they can easily be
differentiated without adaptation. You could just texture one part of
each of the black or white pieces with a piece of tape.

For a deck of cards, it would take a sighted person about 2 minutes to
put the deck in order. If you buy a deck new, chances are, it will
already be in some sort of order. But, if they are not, typically you
would have the sighted person sort them from highest to lowest or vice
versa, and then keep the suits in the same order. For example, the
first 4 cards might be, the 2 of clubs, the 2 of spades, the 2 of
harts, and the 2 of diamonds. And then you would move on to the 3's,
but you would know the order of the suits. You can easily slide the
cards into a perkins. I write the number of the card in nemeth (and
the letter if necessary with no letter sign or capital) first, and
then the first letter of the suit to follow. I do this twice on the
card, on the top left and bottom right corners as the print is placed.
But the great thing about adapting your own games is that if you are
just learning braille, you can make the cards only as advanced as you
can handle. So you could definitely use a different method than I. I
have used a slate for card games, but sometimes it is difficult.
Cards are often just too small for the card slate, and it is difficult
to secure them in a 4-line slate since if you punch through the card,
you can't slate right in the corner. I have seen and adapted several
card games in similar manners. Some examples are Go Fish, Apples to
Apples, Uno, and Skippo.

If you want a scrabble board with clearly indented squareds, then you
can buy the print deluxe edition. You can use dymo tape (I'm not sure
if they have clear, but if they don't, you can buy clear contact
paper), braille the letters and a nemeth point value, cut them, peel
off the backing, and stick them on the print letters. It might be
worth comparing the price of the deluxe scrabble to the adapted one,
but remember you can find some awesome games used online for cheap, so
it might still be cheaper.

For Monopoly, you can buy index cards colored similarly to the paper
money. I personally think that the paper money that comes with the
game is just too flimsy for braille. you can print and braille the
denominations. You can braille the property, chance, and community
chest cards. If they have to be bigger and if this means they can't
fit in their propper place on the board, who cares? You can read them
yourself. You can adapt boards in many ways. Using puff paints and
dymo tape is a good way to outline game piece spaces. If you are
concerned that a board full of houses, hotels, dice, and game pieces
will be difficult to navigate without uprooting them, then you could
incorporate velcro. Although I personally find it easier to touch
lightly.

Using these techniques might mean that you have to build your
collection of adaptive supplies, but the great thing is that most of
these supplies can be found at many stores. And, I think that you will
find that the time you spend will be rewarding. I totally support
buying adapted games, or better yet, asking for them for gifts. But I
think that if you learn to adapt things that are fun for you such as
board games, when you encounter a challenge in math class, and your
teacher doesn't know how to make things tactile, and when your science
tutor has never met a blind person and their mind is completely blank,
you can be proactive and bring out your little craft box and have
supplies and instructions ready.

Cindy

On 5/30/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Which board games are adapted for blind people and which have you played? 
> I
> hope the adapted set has print so you can play with sighted people. 
> Everyone
> I’d play with is sighted, at least a majority of the time that is the 
> case.
> I’ll check ILA, independent living aids, to see what they have first. I’m
> interested in connect four, checkers, chinese checkers, and scrable.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Cynthia Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu May 31 01:48:17 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 21:48:17 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] board game adaptations
In-Reply-To: <7C04ADFAA77B44DDBBA48C27B30FDBDD@HeatherAcer>
References: <25C4130DBDE94328B1FA55CE9D5CCBF6@OwnerPC>
	<7C04ADFAA77B44DDBBA48C27B30FDBDD@HeatherAcer>
Message-ID: <F39CEED443584BCD8D079453E4BD99D4@OwnerPC>

thanks Heather; I'll look at this site.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Heather Field
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:26 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] board game adaptations

Hello,
The best prices for most of the games you mentioned are at:
www.futureaids.com
Scrabble is expensive so it doesn't matter where you get it.
Regards,
Heather

-----Original Message----- 
From: Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:56 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: [nabs-l] board game adaptations

Hi all,

Which board games are adapted for blind people and which have you played? I
hope the adapted set has print so you can play with sighted people. Everyone
I’d play with is sighted, at least a majority of the time that is the case.
I’ll check ILA, independent living aids, to see what they have first. I’m
interested in connect four, checkers, chinese checkers, and scrable.

Thanks.

Ashley
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net


_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu  Thu May 31 01:59:12 2012
From: jlester8462 at students.pccua.edu (Joshua Lester)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 20:59:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] adapting your own board games
In-Reply-To: <BE969EE7B6DE44678EE273E0A616898F@OwnerPC>
References: <CACUFQdwOkMfwy_ZETtkHqAmypnOK=FgyS7Jji3coGhgOMv61Mg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BE969EE7B6DE44678EE273E0A616898F@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAO83KOtUwuq7iJZVsxprJ2g4TvCW4_k5nLoyHzFsY3QhijU0AA@mail.gmail.com>

Ashley:
Check the NFB's Independence Market, for games.
I've found Braille cards, so I'm sure they have accessible board games, as well.
Blessings, Joshua

On 5/30/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi Cindy,
> I know people have adapted their own games, but was not sure how. Board
> games are complex usually, except for checkers; its just squares. Other
> games have so many pictures, lines and more cluttered on the board. I guess
>
> I figured it would be kind of time consuming for me to make every line or
> picture tactile on the board. For cards, I agree it would be a quick and
> easy process though to braille on each card.
> If needed, I'd do that. I'd put the number and the initial of the suit on it
>
> as you did. D for diamonds for instance.
>
> I have bought card decks and did not have the problem you did though with
> braille cards. Mine came in a plastic bag, but they were in order and all
> there.  I have graphic art tape and think that would work for labeling game
>
> pieces if I opt to label my own game.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cynthia Bennett
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:31 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] adapting your own board games
>
> Ashley and all:
>
> I am not familiar with specially-made adapted games for all of the
> examples you provided. I do know that you can buy brailled standard
> decks of cards, Uno cards, scrabble, and Monopoly though. I will say
> that I have been disappointed in the past though. I bought some
> standard decks of cards from a blindness store a few years ago, and
> when I received the cards, they were in zip-locked bags, not sealed,
> and a friend informed me that the 2 decks of cards didn't even look
> the same. I am not saying that this accurately represents all
> blindness stores or all games (decks of cards can more easily be
> adapted in house than many other games), but what I am saying is that
> this experience taught me that I paid too much money for something I
> could have quickly done myself. But, I was also fortunate to grow up
> with a thrifty mother who never spent money when she didn't have to,
> and she taught me a lot of cost-effective ways to make things blind
> friendly.
>
> So I know that this is a deversion from Ashley's original question,
> but I think that many students like me are poor, and I wanted to
> enlighten you on some easy things I have done to be able to include
> myself in almost every game my sighted friends play.
>
> Depending on the cost of a reader or whether you can find  someone
> nice needing service hours, a friend or a parent, you can often adapt
> games yourself for much cheaper.
>
> For connect 4, you can put a piece of tape on one of the colored
> checkers. So, it would take a sighted person 3 seconds to sort the
> checkers into 2 piles, and you could then put tape on all of the
> checkers in one pile. For the game of checkers, you would just have to
> come up with some differently textured tape to differentiate the king
> side of checkers. When you refer to Chinese Checkers, I am pretty sure
> that you are referring to the game with marbles. If so, you could
> potentially texture the marbles, or use differently shaped beads. You
> could attempt to find beads small enough to fit into the nice little
> indents on the board. For chess, you could incorporate velcro to help
> the pieces stick, but they all feel differently, so they can easily be
> differentiated without adaptation. You could just texture one part of
> each of the black or white pieces with a piece of tape.
>
> For a deck of cards, it would take a sighted person about 2 minutes to
> put the deck in order. If you buy a deck new, chances are, it will
> already be in some sort of order. But, if they are not, typically you
> would have the sighted person sort them from highest to lowest or vice
> versa, and then keep the suits in the same order. For example, the
> first 4 cards might be, the 2 of clubs, the 2 of spades, the 2 of
> harts, and the 2 of diamonds. And then you would move on to the 3's,
> but you would know the order of the suits. You can easily slide the
> cards into a perkins. I write the number of the card in nemeth (and
> the letter if necessary with no letter sign or capital) first, and
> then the first letter of the suit to follow. I do this twice on the
> card, on the top left and bottom right corners as the print is placed.
> But the great thing about adapting your own games is that if you are
> just learning braille, you can make the cards only as advanced as you
> can handle. So you could definitely use a different method than I. I
> have used a slate for card games, but sometimes it is difficult.
> Cards are often just too small for the card slate, and it is difficult
> to secure them in a 4-line slate since if you punch through the card,
> you can't slate right in the corner. I have seen and adapted several
> card games in similar manners. Some examples are Go Fish, Apples to
> Apples, Uno, and Skippo.
>
> If you want a scrabble board with clearly indented squareds, then you
> can buy the print deluxe edition. You can use dymo tape (I'm not sure
> if they have clear, but if they don't, you can buy clear contact
> paper), braille the letters and a nemeth point value, cut them, peel
> off the backing, and stick them on the print letters. It might be
> worth comparing the price of the deluxe scrabble to the adapted one,
> but remember you can find some awesome games used online for cheap, so
> it might still be cheaper.
>
> For Monopoly, you can buy index cards colored similarly to the paper
> money. I personally think that the paper money that comes with the
> game is just too flimsy for braille. you can print and braille the
> denominations. You can braille the property, chance, and community
> chest cards. If they have to be bigger and if this means they can't
> fit in their propper place on the board, who cares? You can read them
> yourself. You can adapt boards in many ways. Using puff paints and
> dymo tape is a good way to outline game piece spaces. If you are
> concerned that a board full of houses, hotels, dice, and game pieces
> will be difficult to navigate without uprooting them, then you could
> incorporate velcro. Although I personally find it easier to touch
> lightly.
>
> Using these techniques might mean that you have to build your
> collection of adaptive supplies, but the great thing is that most of
> these supplies can be found at many stores. And, I think that you will
> find that the time you spend will be rewarding. I totally support
> buying adapted games, or better yet, asking for them for gifts. But I
> think that if you learn to adapt things that are fun for you such as
> board games, when you encounter a challenge in math class, and your
> teacher doesn't know how to make things tactile, and when your science
> tutor has never met a blind person and their mind is completely blank,
> you can be proactive and bring out your little craft box and have
> supplies and instructions ready.
>
> Cindy
>
> On 5/30/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Which board games are adapted for blind people and which have you played?
>>
>> I
>> hope the adapted set has print so you can play with sighted people.
>> Everyone
>> I’d play with is sighted, at least a majority of the time that is the
>> case.
>> I’ll check ILA, independent living aids, to see what they have first. I’m
>> interested in connect four, checkers, chinese checkers, and scrable.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cynthia Bennett
> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> 828.989.5383
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
>
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>


From jj at bestmidi.com  Thu May 31 05:20:00 2012
From: jj at bestmidi.com (J.J. Meddaugh)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 01:20:00 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck
Message-ID: <0DC1CAE5F6634FC998B0E53098B948A5@jage>

I just posted the following to BlindBargains.com and thought some of you may be interested.

The low-cost intercity bus service Megabus is launching service in several Texas
cities just in time for the NFB convention. Since the service is new, tickets are
available for $1 on many routes and days. Tickets to Dallas are available from Austin,
Del Rio, Houston, San Angelo, and San Antonio,, Texas, Little Rock, Arkansas, Memphis,
Tennessee, and Norman, Oklahoma. Additional cities are available by connecting to
another bus, though connections on Megabus are not guaranteed. Select the link on
this post to book a ticket. A 50 cent booking fee also applies. Megabus coaches stop
curbside so all ticket purchases are done online. Busses include wi-fi and power
outlets and make limited stops compared to other carriers.

Best Regards,
J.J. Meddaugh
A T Guys
Your Assistive Technology Experts
(269) 216-4798
http://www.ATGuys.com

From anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com  Thu May 31 13:23:37 2012
From: anmolpbhatia at yahoo.com (Anmol Bhatia)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 06:23:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [nabs-l] roommate for the convention
Message-ID: <1338470617.6192.YahooMailClassic@web162006.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

I have a friend who needs a roommate or three roommates for the convention. He would like to get as many roommates as possible in order to bring down the cost of a hotel room per person. So if anyone is interested, please email me off list.
thanks
Anmol
I seldom think about my limitations, and they never make me sad. Perhaps there is just a touch of yearning at times; but it is vague, like a breeze among flowers.
Hellen Keller


From kobycox at gmail.com  Thu May 31 14:01:43 2012
From: kobycox at gmail.com (Koby Cox)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 08:01:43 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck
Message-ID: <4fc779d5.220fb60a.0f8b.03d2@mx.google.com>

There Is no link in this email message.  Please attach the link 
and repost this to the list.
Thanks,
Koby.


From pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com  Thu May 31 15:00:21 2012
From: pdonahue2 at satx.rr.com (Peter Donahue)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 10:00:21 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck
References: <4fc779d5.220fb60a.0f8b.03d2@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <005d01cd3f3e$1a3b0450$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn>

Hello everyone,

    Here it is:
http://www.megabus.com

       As a sort of trivia how many of you remember the days of multiple 
over-the-road inter city bus services? We grew up in the era of Greyhound 
and Trailways. Some folks preferred Trailways but I always liked Greyhound 
better. Greyhound is also rolling out busses with more room for passengers, 
wifi and outlets but am not sure if they'll have them in Texas by the 
national convention. Megabus here we come!

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Koby Cox" <kobycox at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck


There Is no link in this email message.  Please attach the link
and repost this to the list.
Thanks,
Koby.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
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From raydar11011 at yahoo.com  Thu May 31 19:06:59 2012
From: raydar11011 at yahoo.com (Reinhard Stebner)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 15:06:59 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck
In-Reply-To: <005d01cd3f3e$1a3b0450$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn>
References: <4fc779d5.220fb60a.0f8b.03d2@mx.google.com>
	<005d01cd3f3e$1a3b0450$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn>
Message-ID: <008701cd3f60$8e5444b0$aafcce10$@yahoo.com>

Right, but I cannot take mega bus from D. C. It looks like it is region
based.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:00 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck

Hello everyone,

    Here it is:
http://www.megabus.com

       As a sort of trivia how many of you remember the days of multiple 
over-the-road inter city bus services? We grew up in the era of Greyhound 
and Trailways. Some folks preferred Trailways but I always liked Greyhound 
better. Greyhound is also rolling out busses with more room for passengers, 
wifi and outlets but am not sure if they'll have them in Texas by the 
national convention. Megabus here we come!

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Koby Cox" <kobycox at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck


There Is no link in this email message.  Please attach the link
and repost this to the list.
Thanks,
Koby.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From ptrck.molloy at gmail.com  Thu May 31 19:18:18 2012
From: ptrck.molloy at gmail.com (Patrick Molloy)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 15:18:18 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] board game adaptations
In-Reply-To: <F39CEED443584BCD8D079453E4BD99D4@OwnerPC>
References: <25C4130DBDE94328B1FA55CE9D5CCBF6@OwnerPC>
	<7C04ADFAA77B44DDBBA48C27B30FDBDD@HeatherAcer>
	<F39CEED443584BCD8D079453E4BD99D4@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CAN+-G_ABDFQdE6ga=gp1jp-18HfixMS1b3xPMxtxwzSHZuym1g@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Ashley,
There are actually some games that are accessible right from the
get-go. Perfect example: Mancala. Think of it kind of like chess, but
less complicated. If you do a quick Google search, you'll find it.
Mancala is all about strategy. You don't have to worry about a
cluttered board, because the board is a rectangle with six holes
running down each of the two long sides. It's actually really easy to
play, and as I said, it's accessible right out of the box. Another
good game is shut the box. If you can't get it with Braille, you can
easily put Braille labels on the number tiles and just use a set of
Braille dice. I know Scrabble is definitely out there in Braille,
because I once got it as a Christmas gift.
Patrick

On 5/30/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
> thanks Heather; I'll look at this site.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Heather Field
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:26 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] board game adaptations
>
> Hello,
> The best prices for most of the games you mentioned are at:
> www.futureaids.com
> Scrabble is expensive so it doesn't matter where you get it.
> Regards,
> Heather
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:56 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: [nabs-l] board game adaptations
>
> Hi all,
>
> Which board games are adapted for blind people and which have you played? I
> hope the adapted set has print so you can play with sighted people. Everyone
> I’d play with is sighted, at least a majority of the time that is the case.
> I’ll check ILA, independent living aids, to see what they have first. I’m
> interested in connect four, checkers, chinese checkers, and scrable.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ashley
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>


From davidb521 at gmail.com  Thu May 31 19:40:06 2012
From: davidb521 at gmail.com (david bouchard)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 14:40:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck
In-Reply-To: <008701cd3f60$8e5444b0$aafcce10$@yahoo.com>
References: <4fc779d5.220fb60a.0f8b.03d2@mx.google.com>
	<005d01cd3f3e$1a3b0450$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<008701cd3f60$8e5444b0$aafcce10$@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <CAHCexpZ=pYZPjE_RGL2Bo9+zmVwYQ7-D6wp0SPdcbV9BcJ+Ohg@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/31/12, Reinhard Stebner <raydar11011 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Right, but I cannot take mega bus from D. C. It looks like it is region
> based.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Peter Donahue
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:00 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>     Here it is:
> http://www.megabus.com
>
>        As a sort of trivia how many of you remember the days of multiple
> over-the-road inter city bus services? We grew up in the era of Greyhound
> and Trailways. Some folks preferred Trailways but I always liked Greyhound
> better. Greyhound is also rolling out busses with more room for passengers,
>
> wifi and outlets but am not sure if they'll have them in Texas by the
> national convention. Megabus here we come!
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Koby Cox" <kobycox at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 9:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck
>
>
> There Is no link in this email message.  Please attach the link
> and repost this to the list.
> Thanks,
> Koby.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/davidb521%40gmail.com
>


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu May 31 20:16:25 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 16:16:25 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck
In-Reply-To: <008701cd3f60$8e5444b0$aafcce10$@yahoo.com>
References: <4fc779d5.220fb60a.0f8b.03d2@mx.google.com><005d01cd3f3e$1a3b0450$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<008701cd3f60$8e5444b0$aafcce10$@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <D68DD2E3894746E3948665B6B43A7A26@OwnerPC>

Reinhard,
Oh you in the dc area?
Do you go to the potomic chapter?

-----Original Message----- 
From: Reinhard Stebner
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 3:06 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck

Right, but I cannot take mega bus from D. C. It looks like it is region
based.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:00 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck

Hello everyone,

    Here it is:
http://www.megabus.com

       As a sort of trivia how many of you remember the days of multiple
over-the-road inter city bus services? We grew up in the era of Greyhound
and Trailways. Some folks preferred Trailways but I always liked Greyhound
better. Greyhound is also rolling out busses with more room for passengers,
wifi and outlets but am not sure if they'll have them in Texas by the
national convention. Megabus here we come!

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Koby Cox" <kobycox at gmail.com>
To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 9:01 AM
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck


There Is no link in this email message.  Please attach the link
and repost this to the list.
Thanks,
Koby.

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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nabs-l:
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From brice.smith319 at gmail.com  Thu May 31 20:24:18 2012
From: brice.smith319 at gmail.com (Brice Smith)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 16:24:18 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck
In-Reply-To: <008701cd3f60$8e5444b0$aafcce10$@yahoo.com>
References: <4fc779d5.220fb60a.0f8b.03d2@mx.google.com>
	<005d01cd3f3e$1a3b0450$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn>
	<008701cd3f60$8e5444b0$aafcce10$@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <-1332926017037352492@unknownmsgid>

Hi,

I am not very familiar with the service, but it looks like you could
possibly megabus it from DC to knoxville, and then take a bus from
Knoxville to Memphis. Then it's a straight shot from Memphis to
Dallas.

If you're really committed, your best option is to play around on the
website and see what connects to what. at some point though you've
just got to ask yourself, is it really worth it?

Brice

Sent from my iPhone

On May 31, 2012, at 3:07 PM, Reinhard Stebner <raydar11011 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Right, but I cannot take mega bus from D. C. It looks like it is region
> based.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Peter Donahue
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:00 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>    Here it is:
> http://www.megabus.com
>
>       As a sort of trivia how many of you remember the days of multiple
> over-the-road inter city bus services? We grew up in the era of Greyhound
> and Trailways. Some folks preferred Trailways but I always liked Greyhound
> better. Greyhound is also rolling out busses with more room for passengers,
> wifi and outlets but am not sure if they'll have them in Texas by the
> national convention. Megabus here we come!
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Koby Cox" <kobycox at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 9:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck
>
>
> There Is no link in this email message.  Please attach the link
> and repost this to the list.
> Thanks,
> Koby.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>
>
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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>
>
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu May 31 20:32:31 2012
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 16:32:31 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck
In-Reply-To: <-1332926017037352492@unknownmsgid>
References: <4fc779d5.220fb60a.0f8b.03d2@mx.google.com><005d01cd3f3e$1a3b0450$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn><008701cd3f60$8e5444b0$aafcce10$@yahoo.com>
	<-1332926017037352492@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <26CD83A50F084C27A0F11B6C865C8609@OwnerPC>

Hi,
I heard this service does come to DC. Brice is right, you would  need to 
transfer buses a lot. I suggest flying instead if at all affordable to you.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Brice Smith
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:24 PM
To: raydar11011 at yahoo.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck

Hi,

I am not very familiar with the service, but it looks like you could
possibly megabus it from DC to knoxville, and then take a bus from
Knoxville to Memphis. Then it's a straight shot from Memphis to
Dallas.

If you're really committed, your best option is to play around on the
website and see what connects to what. at some point though you've
just got to ask yourself, is it really worth it?

Brice

Sent from my iPhone

On May 31, 2012, at 3:07 PM, Reinhard Stebner <raydar11011 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Right, but I cannot take mega bus from D. C. It looks like it is region
> based.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Peter Donahue
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:00 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>    Here it is:
> http://www.megabus.com
>
>       As a sort of trivia how many of you remember the days of multiple
> over-the-road inter city bus services? We grew up in the era of Greyhound
> and Trailways. Some folks preferred Trailways but I always liked Greyhound
> better. Greyhound is also rolling out busses with more room for 
> passengers,
> wifi and outlets but am not sure if they'll have them in Texas by the
> national convention. Megabus here we come!
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Koby Cox" <kobycox at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 9:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck
>
>
> There Is no link in this email message.  Please attach the link
> and repost this to the list.
> Thanks,
> Koby.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raydar11011%40yahoo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/brice.smith319%40gmail.com

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From herekittykat2 at gmail.com  Thu May 31 21:43:27 2012
From: herekittykat2 at gmail.com (Jewel)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 17:43:27 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] board game adaptations
In-Reply-To: <CAN+-G_ABDFQdE6ga=gp1jp-18HfixMS1b3xPMxtxwzSHZuym1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <25C4130DBDE94328B1FA55CE9D5CCBF6@OwnerPC>
	<7C04ADFAA77B44DDBBA48C27B30FDBDD@HeatherAcer>
	<F39CEED443584BCD8D079453E4BD99D4@OwnerPC>
	<CAN+-G_ABDFQdE6ga=gp1jp-18HfixMS1b3xPMxtxwzSHZuym1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AAD44471-0D87-4488-88A0-F103681D1907@gmail.com>

I have seen Chinese checkers where each color is a different shape. I think NFB has it. I got checkers and chess from there too. I have heard of accessible connect for, but don't know where to get it. 

Sent from my iPhone

On May 31, 2012, at 3:18 PM, Patrick Molloy <ptrck.molloy at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey Ashley,
> There are actually some games that are accessible right from the
> get-go. Perfect example: Mancala. Think of it kind of like chess, but
> less complicated. If you do a quick Google search, you'll find it.
> Mancala is all about strategy. You don't have to worry about a
> cluttered board, because the board is a rectangle with six holes
> running down each of the two long sides. It's actually really easy to
> play, and as I said, it's accessible right out of the box. Another
> good game is shut the box. If you can't get it with Braille, you can
> easily put Braille labels on the number tiles and just use a set of
> Braille dice. I know Scrabble is definitely out there in Braille,
> because I once got it as a Christmas gift.
> Patrick
> 
> On 5/30/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> thanks Heather; I'll look at this site.
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Heather Field
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 9:26 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] board game adaptations
>> 
>> Hello,
>> The best prices for most of the games you mentioned are at:
>> www.futureaids.com
>> Scrabble is expensive so it doesn't matter where you get it.
>> Regards,
>> Heather
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ashley Bramlett
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:56 PM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Subject: [nabs-l] board game adaptations
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Which board games are adapted for blind people and which have you played? I
>> hope the adapted set has print so you can play with sighted people. Everyone
>> I’d play with is sighted, at least a majority of the time that is the case.
>> I’ll check ILA, independent living aids, to see what they have first. I’m
>> interested in connect four, checkers, chinese checkers, and scrable.
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> Ashley
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/missheather%40comcast.net
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ptrck.molloy%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat2%40gmail.com


From raydar11011 at yahoo.com  Thu May 31 22:03:05 2012
From: raydar11011 at yahoo.com (Reinhard Stebner)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 18:03:05 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck
In-Reply-To: <26CD83A50F084C27A0F11B6C865C8609@OwnerPC>
References: <4fc779d5.220fb60a.0f8b.03d2@mx.google.com><005d01cd3f3e$1a3b0450$9e010b43@yourfsyly0jtwn><008701cd3f60$8e5444b0$aafcce10$@yahoo.com>	<-1332926017037352492@unknownmsgid>
	<26CD83A50F084C27A0F11B6C865C8609@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <015f01cd3f79$27b4b780$771e2680$@yahoo.com>

After looking at these messages, I think you are correct that flying just
might be the best method of getting there. That 1 dollar sure looked good
though.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Ashley Bramlett
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:33 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck

Hi,
I heard this service does come to DC. Brice is right, you would  need to 
transfer buses a lot. I suggest flying instead if at all affordable to you.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Brice Smith
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 4:24 PM
To: raydar11011 at yahoo.com ; National Association of Blind Students mailing 
list
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck

Hi,

I am not very familiar with the service, but it looks like you could
possibly megabus it from DC to knoxville, and then take a bus from
Knoxville to Memphis. Then it's a straight shot from Memphis to
Dallas.

If you're really committed, your best option is to play around on the
website and see what connects to what. at some point though you've
just got to ask yourself, is it really worth it?

Brice

Sent from my iPhone

On May 31, 2012, at 3:07 PM, Reinhard Stebner <raydar11011 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Right, but I cannot take mega bus from D. C. It looks like it is region
> based.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> Behalf
> Of Peter Donahue
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 11:00 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck
>
> Hello everyone,
>
>    Here it is:
> http://www.megabus.com
>
>       As a sort of trivia how many of you remember the days of multiple
> over-the-road inter city bus services? We grew up in the era of Greyhound
> and Trailways. Some folks preferred Trailways but I always liked Greyhound
> better. Greyhound is also rolling out busses with more room for 
> passengers,
> wifi and outlets but am not sure if they'll have them in Texas by the
> national convention. Megabus here we come!
>
> Peter Donahue
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Koby Cox" <kobycox at gmail.com>
> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2012 9:01 AM
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Take Megabus to Dallas for a Buck
>
>
> There Is no link in this email message.  Please attach the link
> and repost this to the list.
> Thanks,
> Koby.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/pdonahue2%40satx.rr.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
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>
>
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
>
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om

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net 


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From dandrews at visi.com  Thu May 31 23:22:46 2012
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2012 18:22:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [HIMS-News] Announcing sense Notetaker V7.0!
Message-ID: <auto-000063335073@mailfront3.g2host.com>


>
>Hello all!
>
>HIMS is pleased to announce the long-anticipated 
>7.0 firmware release for all Braille Sense and Voice Sense Notetakers!
>
>This release features a new Google Maps 
>application, a new Bookshare download 
>application, support for IMAP email, support for 
>saving password protected files in the Word 
>Processor, and support for Nemeth Braille and 
>fractional arithmetic in the calculator, as well 
>as several other features and fixes. Please see 
>the attached release note for a detailed list of all new features and fixes.
>
>WARNING!! After upgrading the notetaker 
>firmware, all system settings are restored to 
>their defaults. If you have made changes to the 
>system settings, you may wish to back them up 
>before upgrading, so you can restore them after 
>the upgrade is complete. Please use the 
>“Backup/Restore” option in the 
>“Utilities” menu to back up your option 
>settings. We also strongly advise backing up 
>your files. Though the upgrade itself should not 
>destroy data on the internal flashdisk, users 
>should also consider backing up their files in 
>case unexpected problems arise during the 
>upgrade process. Please use the File Manager to 
>copy your data to an external storage device such as an SD card or USB drive.
>
>Special notice to Braille Sense OnHand, Braille 
>Sense PLUS, Braille Sense PLUS QWERTY, and Voice Sense QWERTY users:
>
>If you are upgrading from a version below 6.2, 
>you must reformat your flashdisk due to the 
>creation of a partition for housing the NLS key. 
>Please make sure to back up your data before 
>formatting. Voice Sense and Braille Sense 
>Classic users need not reformat as NLS content 
>playback cannot be supported on these models due 
>to the limited size of the internal flashdisk.
>
>Upgrading using the Online Method:
>
>The online upgrade should be available within an 
>hour or so after the release of this 
>announcement. To upgrade using the online method, follow the steps below.
>
>1. Connect your notetaker to AC power, and 
>ensure you have an active internet connection.
>
>2. From the main “Program” menu, press 
>“U” to open the “Utilities” menu.
>
>3. Press “U” again for “Upgrade Firmware”.
>
>4. When prompted, “Upgrade Online?” press “Enter”.
>
>5. The notetaker checks for new firmware. If it 
>finds it, you are prompted, “Are you sure you 
>want to upgrade?” The default is “Yes”.
>
>6. Press “Enter” to initiate the download and upgrade process.
>
>7. When the files are downloaded, the upgrade 
>process begins. While the unit is upgrading, 
>progress is displayed on the Braille display in 
>the form of a percentage and progress beeps are 
>heard. Please do not press buttons or power off 
>the unit during the upgrade process as this may 
>result in an incomplete installation.
>
>8. When the upgrade is complete, the unit 
>reboots and places you in the main “Program” 
>menu. Press “Space-V” (FN-V) to verify your 
>notetaker is running firmware version 7.0.
>
>Upgrading using the Offline Method:
>
>To upgrade using the Offline method, please 
>download the firmware using the links below.
>
>Braille Sense OnHand:
>
><http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Braille_Sense_OnHand_US_V700_120530.zip>http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Braille_Sense_OnHand_US_V700_120530.zip 
>
>
>Voice Sense QWERTY:
>
><http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Voice_Sense_QX_US_V700_120530.zip>http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Voice_Sense_QX_US_V700_120530.zip 
>
>
>Braille Sense PLUS QWERTY:
>
><http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Braille_Sense_PLUS_B32_QX_US_V700_120530.zip>http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Braille_Sense_PLUS_B32_QX_US_V700_120530.zip 
>
>
>Braille Sense PLUS:
>
><http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Braille_Sense_PLUS_B32_US_V700_120530.zip>http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Braille_Sense_PLUS_B32_US_V700_120530.zip 
>
>
>Voice Sense:
>
><http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Voice_Sense_US_V700_120530.zip>http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Voice_Sense_US_V700_120530.zip 
>
>
>Braille Sense U2:
>
><http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Braille_Sense_U2_US_V70_120530.zip>http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/Braille_Sense_U2_US_V70_120530.zip 
>
>
>Follow the instructions below to upgrade your Sense notetaker.
>
>1. Download the zip file containing the firmware to your PC.
>
>2. Extract the zip file on your PC; the 
>extracted folder should contain three files. 
>(The U2 upgrade contains only 2 files)
>
>3. Copy the files and paste them into the root 
>of an external storage device such as an SD card or USB thumb drive.
>
>4. Connect the external storage device to the Sense Notetaker.
>
>5. Connect your notetaker to AC power.
>
>6. From the main “Program” menu, press 
>“U” to open the “Utilities” menu.
>
>7. Press “U” again for “Upgrade Firmware”.
>
>8. When prompted, “Upgrade Online?” press 
>“Space-4” (Down arrow) to move to “Offline”, and press “Enter”.
>
>9. The notetaker checks for new firmware on your 
>external storage devices. If it finds it, you 
>are prompted, “Are you sure you want to upgrade?” The default is “Yes”.
>
>10. Press “Enter” to initiate the upgrade process.
>
>11. The upgrade process begins. While the unit 
>is upgrading, progress is displayed on the 
>Braille display in the form of a percentage, and 
>progress beeps are heard. Please do not press 
>buttons or power off the unit during the upgrade 
>process as this may result in an incomplete installation.
>
>12. When the upgrade is complete, the unit 
>reboots and places you in the main “Program” 
>menu. Press “Space-V” (FN-V) to verify your 
>notetaker is running firmware version 7.0.
>
>Please use the links below to download the 7.0 user manuals:
>
>Braille Sense OnHand:
>
><http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/V70Manual/BrailleSenseOnHand_UserManual(Ver70)_HIMS.doc>www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/V70Manual/BrailleSenseOnHand_UserManual(Ver70)_HIMS.doc
>
>Braille Sense PLUS QWERTY:
>
><http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/V70Manual/BrailleSensePLUSQWERTY_UserManual(Ver70)_HIMS.doc>www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/V70Manual/BrailleSensePLUSQWERTY_UserManual(Ver70)_HIMS.doc
>
>Braille Sense PLUS:
>
><http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/V70Manual/BrailleSensePLUS_UserManual(Ver70)_HIMS.doc>www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/V70Manual/BrailleSensePLUS_UserManual(Ver70)_HIMS.doc
>
>Braille Sense U2:
>
><http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/V70Manual/BrailleSenseU2_UserManual(ver70)_HIMS.doc>www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/V70Manual/BrailleSenseU2_UserManual(ver70)_HIMS.doc
>
>Voice Sense QWERTY:
>
><http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/V70Manual/VoiceSenseQWERTY_UserManual(Ver70)_HIMS.doc>www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/V70Manual/VoiceSenseQWERTY_UserManual(Ver70)_HIMS.doc
>
>Voice Sense:
>
><http://www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/V70Manual/VoiceSenseUser_UserManual(Ver70)_HIMS.doc>www.hims-inc.com/Upgrade/V70Manual/VoiceSenseUser_UserManual(Ver70)_HIMS.doc
>
>If you have questions or problems, please 
>contact HIMS Technical Support at 512-837-2000 
>or email <mailto:support at hims-inc.com>support at hims-inc.com
>
>We hope you enjoy the new features,
>
>Jenny Axler
>
>technical Support Specialist
>
>HIMS, Inc.
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