[nabs-l] taking the GRE

Sun May 27 20:53:00 UTC 2012

Ok, I need to clarify some things. The test is not scored differently,
and the level of difficulty is not different. The only difference in
having the self-voiced test is that the questions you receive is set
from the beginning. When someone without accommidations is taking the
computer test, the questions they receive are not set from the
beginning but probably randomly chosen from a database once the next
question's level of difficulty is chosen. Although the level of
difficulty of the next question is determined by the answer of the
current question, it is still the same scoring. I am pretty sure
different weights are given to questions with different difficulties.
So theoretically, if you kept doing poorly, then you would get easier
questions, and although you might answer more of those correctly, your
score wouldn't be disproportionately high.

Not including tests with accommidations in statistics is probably just
done to keep as many parallels as possible. I am not the research
expert by any means, but the way I see it is if there is something
different about the environment or administration, then it can't be
included with the rest of the results. I don't think this is done
because any testing agency thinks that people who need accommidations
are stupid, but to report scores together that are from tests
administered in similar environments. It is discouraging if my score
is not considered a part of the normal population of scores, but that
is kind of how statistics works. If I was running a subject in a
study, and something happened to interrupt the environment, or if
there are uninterpretable answers on their survey, or if they leave
questions blank, then we don't use their data. It doesn't mean that
they are a bad person or incapable of being a subject in the study, it
just means that their environment and data aren't uniform with the
rest. It may seem that ill completed surveys and accommidations are
apples and oranges when considering inclusion, but that is the reason
I can deduce for now.

It is not my intention to start a fierce debate. I have already stated
that I do not know all of the logistics surrounding this, but that I
have only heard this from some people. Maybe someone could further
research the topic. All I was saying is that if in fact score reports
reflect whether the scores are included in national data, and yours
are not because of needing accommidations, then it might be in your
favor to include a supplemental document with your application
explaining your disability and the alternative techniques you use to
be successful. Because you wouldn't want an admissions office to view
the score report and leave it up to them to ponder through the variety
of reasons why that might be. But I could be completely wrong. It may
not even be an issue.

And, in my experience, although GRE scores are important, you can
still have a strong application otherwise. I applied to several grad
schools, and got a couple of interviews, and I feel that the reasons
why I got interviews at some schools and didn't at others had more to
do with the content of my application as a whole and my research
interests. I do not feel like I did not get into some of the schools
because of needing acccommidations on the GRE.

Cindy

On 5/27/12, Karen Anderson <kea.anderson at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> As someone who will have to take the GRE in the near future, I was very
> encouraged when I heard that they were developing accessible tests.
> However,
> hearing that sighted test-takers are being given a different test than we
> are greatly distresses me. I realize they want to give us access to Braille
> materials, and I'm glad of that. However, with today's technology, there is
> no reason they couldn't develop a computerized exam that works with a
> Braille display. This way we could have access to Braille, while still
> taking the test our peers take.
> 	If it's true that scores are weighted differently, and that our
> scores are not counted in the statistics, then this is a form of
> discrimination.
> 	I realize things are considerably better for our generation of
> students than those who came before us. However, better does not mean
> equal.
> having electronic books, but still getting them after classes start, does
> not put us on an equal playing field. Having electronic texts that are
> poorly marked up makes searching and studying more challenging and less
> productive. I realize that in some situations we need to work harder to
> overcome some of these barriers, and I am willing to do that. However, we
> should have the opportunity to take the same test our sighted peers take,
> and to be scored in the same manner.
>
> Just my thoughts,
>
> Karen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Ashley Bramlett
> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 2:06 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>
> Arielle,
> Thanks. Yes sounds a lot like the SAT; and it seems typical for computer
> based tests to be dynamic, as you said to change with the level of
> difficulty the test taker needs.
> Which source, if any, has braille prep materials? Learning ally would be
> audio.
> It doesn't seem fair to have to dictate your essay to a scribe, but I guess
>
> that is the only way for them to read it.
> They cannot read braille.
> I had to do that with the praxis test I took; I was going to be an
> education
>
> major before I got too discouraged.
> I took Praxis I, a test that all  prospective teachers take and found it
> troublesome to dictate my essay to the scribe. We ran out of time for it
> because you know they count the time you dictate to the scribe as part of
> your test taking time. So I had less time to write my essay. Then, I had to
>
> repeat some things to the scribe since I said it too fast. Dictating
> something and having them keep up with you is a skill, and with a new
> reader
>
> scribe its kind of hard. I've done that for other tests in college but they
>
> were shorter essays.
>
> I'm glad accomodations have improved, but it still seems a bit unfair. I'm
> glad to know of the discrepancies between the paper and computer test.
>
> Ashley
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arielle Silverman
> Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2012 1:30 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>
> Hi Ashley,
> Yes, at least with the old self-voicing test, it is read to you by a
> screen reader similar to JAWS and the answers are marked via computer.
> I have a friend who just took the test last month and he said that the
> self-voicing test was not yet an option, so he used a reader. However
> Ruth Loew posted a request for beta-testers for the self-voicing test
> a while ago, so hopefully it will be ready soon.
> I don't know how the content of the test has changed. When I took it
> it was very similar to the SAT. There were sentence completions,
> analogies and reading comprehension in the verbal section. The math
> problems were mainly algebra and geometry and I don't think a
> calculator was allowed. There was also a writing section that involved
> writing an essay; however, all the verbal and math items were
> multiple-choice.
> The difference between the paper and computer tests is that the paper
> test has a fixed set of questions, but the computer test is dynamic.
> That is, the questions you get later on in the test depend on how well
> you perform on earlier questions. If you are doing well, the test will
> give you more difficult questions than if you do poorly at the
> beginning. I think this allows you to earn a higher score if you are
> able to pass the more difficult questions, although I'm not exactly
> sure how the test is scored. The main thing is this is how most of
> your competitors for grad school are tested. I'm not sure, then, how
> the Braille supplement works if the test questions are dynamic.
> Arielle
>
> On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> So you all are saying the self voicing test is via computer; I assume
>> then
>> it is read to you through synthesized speech of some kind.
>> Maybe someone will clarify if it is currently in that format. Anyone here
>> taken the GRE in the past year?
>>
>> Other choices are braille and large print formats. I marked my answers
>> through a reader for other braille standardized tests such as the SAT, so
>>
>> I
>>
>> would guess that using a reader for answers is the way it is now.
>> Six hours is double time; sounds like an involved test.
>> Is there reading comprehension involved? Also, is it
>> mostly multiple choice? If not, what format?
>>
>>
>> You all distinguish between paper and pencil test versus computer test.
>> Does this mean the tests are actually different questions? I thought the
>> only difference was that one was on the pc in a soft copy format and had
>> a
>> different order of questions than the paper based test.
>>
>> I can see the advantage of doing it with a reader and computer. Two of
>> them
>>
>> are it is scored instantly and
>> may take less time.
>> But I also think there would be advantages with braille such as actually
>> reading the sections yourself and taking time to analyze it to answer
>> questions.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Ashley
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Cynthia Bennett
>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 5:33 PM
>> To: Misty Dawn Bradley ; National Association of Blind Students mailing
>> list
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>
>> Arielle did a great job outlining the the GRE. It is unfortunate if
>> the self-voiced test is not ready, because the new GRE has been out
>> for a year. In any case, I would say that waiting for it if you can
>> would be worth it for the advantages like an instant score. You would
>> get a braille or large print supplement with the self-voiced test. It
>> would contain all of the questions. It is a hard copy duplicate of the
>> computer test. All of the math graphics are in the supplement and very
>> well done. There are descriptions in the self-voiced test, but you can
>> imagine that being able to touch raised graphics is much more quickly
>> understandable.
>>
>> I think you can ask for 1.5 or double time. So, with double time, you
>> would get a little over 6 hours to take the test, and you can use the
>> 6 hours however you want. With normal time, you would receive about 30
>> minutes per section, but with double time, you don't have to allot
>> double the time of each section and then start over. What I am trying
>> to say is that theoretically, you could use more than double time on
>> the math part if you needed it and if you could get through the verbal
>> and writing in less than double those time limits. I read braille very
>> well and comprehend things very easily and found that I was not rushed
>> and did not need all of the double time given to me, so I wouldn't
>> worry too much about whether it is enough unless you have other
>> circumstances.
>>
>> If you do take the self-voiced test, ETS will send you a practice one.
>> You can go through tutorials before beginning the test which will not
>> use your test time, but I recommend knowing the keystrokes beforehand.
>>
>> Once I got the accommidations process started, they were approved
>> quickly, but it is advisable to start a few months early. I had to
>> have a signed letter from an eye doctor and another letter from the
>> disabilities office at my school. ETS has to communicate with your
>> testing center of choice to see if they have the right equipment, a
>> computer with the right specs, so you need to allow for the time for
>> these communications to take place.
>>
>> I bought some used Kaplan books and got a reader to help me with math
>> review. Be sure you get practice materials that reflect the content of
>> the new test.
>>
>> One thing worth mentioning is that when I came in to take the test, I
>> brought headphones with me. My testing center was very hesitant, and
>> they wouldn't let me use them until they called ETS. ETS did allow me
>> to use headphones, but the testing center gave me a pair of theirs.
>> So, if you think you might want to use headphones, I would write it in
>> somewhere on your accommidations application and make sure ETS is ok
>> with it and that your testing center has a pair that you can use. It
>> wasn't that big of a deal, but on test day, you will probably feel
>> stressed and pressured and any little mishaps can seem like bigger
>> deals than they are. So take care of those things beforehand.
>>
>> I will reiterate what Arielle said. The ETS disability office was very
>> helpful, and Ruth is easily accessible and can answer your questions.
>>
>> Cindy
>>
>> On 5/26/12, Misty Dawn Bradley <mistydbradley at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Arielle,
>>> So for the self-voicing test, how is the math section done, especially
>>> if
>>> there are graphics? Are they described within the self-voiced test? I
>>> just
>>> thought that I would ask, because if one does not have access to the
>>> graphics that a sighted person would have access to, then it may affect
>>> one's score on the test. I like the idea of the computerized,
>>> self-voiced
>>> test.
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Misty
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Arielle Silverman" <arielle71 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "National Association of Blind Students mailing list"
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 11:44 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> I took the GRE way back in 2007 and many things have changed since
>>>> then. For the most up-to-date information, I suggest contacting Ruth
>>>> Loew, assistant director of disability policy at ETS, at
>>>> rloew at ets.org
>>>> She has been involved with NABS for a long time and is very interested
>>>> in helping blind students navigate the accommodations system.
>>>> I do know that you can get Braille prep materials for the verbal and
>>>> math sections. You can choose to take the test using Braille, large
>>>> print or through a reader. There was an accessible "self-voicing"
>>>> version of the computer test that can be taken independently via
>>>> computer, but I believe that since the test changed recently, we are
>>>> still waiting for the new self-voicing version to be finalized and
>>>> made available to test-takers.
>>>> If using Braille, I believe the only way to mark your answers is with
>>>> a reader, at least until the self-voicing test is ready. You are
>>>> allowed to use a Perkins Brailler to write the essays for the writing
>>>> section and to do scratchwork for the math section, but you will
>>>> eventually need to dictate your Brailled essay to the reader.
>>>> One disadvantage of the Braille test is that it is the "paper-based"
>>>> test, while the reader-administered and self-voicing versions are the
>>>> "computer-based" test. Nowadays most of your sighted peers applying to
>>>> grad school will be taking the computer test, and also the computer
>>>> test is scored instantly, whereas the paper test takes a while to be
>>>> graded. However, there are obvious advantages to using Braille if you
>>>> are a Braille reader. I personally think the self-voicing test is the
>>>> best option, when it becomes available, as a blind test-taker can
>>>> complete it independently and there is no risk of having your score
>>>> affected by a reader's mistakes in recording your answers. However,
>>>> each person's accommodation decision is an individual one of course.
>>>> If you decide to use a reader rather than Braille to complete the
>>>> test, I would suggest doing all your practice and studying with
>>>> readers rather than with Braille, so you can get used to answering
>>>> questions and processing the information in this way.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Arielle
>>>>
>>>> On 5/26/12, Ashley Bramlett <bookwormahb at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I might need this if I try grad school. Also, how long will the test
>>>>> take
>>>>> when you get extended time? What subjects are tested?
>>>>> How can you mark your answers? I'd opt for braille if they can provide
>>>>> it
>>>>>
>>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>> braille. But you cannot mark in a braille test.
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Reinhard Stebner
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2012 10:31 AM
>>>>> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
>>>>> Subject: [nabs-l] taking the GRE
>>>>>
>>>>> Are there any totally blind people on this list who have taken the GRE
>>>>> and
>>>>> could give me prep advice as well as how the actual test
>>>>> administration
>>>>> was
>>>>> done? For example, did you have a reader who was provided or did you
>>>>> use
>>>>> assistive technology? Also, what prep mete4rials did you use. Thank
>>>>> you
>>>>> for
>>>>> your help.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Cynthia Bennett
>> B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington
>>
>> clb5590 at gmail.com
>> 828.989.5383
>>
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-- 
Cynthia Bennett
B.A. Psychology, UNC Wilmington

clb5590 at gmail.com
828.989.5383